1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for a Black Girls Podcasts, a 2 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: small decisions we can make to become the best possible 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr joy Hard and Bradford, 5 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. To get more information, 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: visit the website at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: And while I hope you love listening to and learning 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: from the podcast, it is not meant to be a 9 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, 10 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:49,200 Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining me for session seventy nine 11 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: of the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. Today, I'm joined 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: by another one of my amazing line sisters for a 13 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: discussion about infertility. Our guest therapist today is Dr Andrika Pete. 14 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: Dr Pete is a licensed clinical psychologist with a private 15 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: practice in downtown Decada, Georgia, where she specializes in women's 16 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: mental and reproductive health. Her practice focuses on working with 17 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: fertility concerns, third party reproduction, miscarriage and perinatal laws, perinatal 18 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: mood and anxiety disorders, birth trauma, relationship concerns, and other 19 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: mood disorders. She also has a specialty in working with 20 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: university students. Doctor Pete received her doctorate in Clinical psychology 21 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: from the Georgia School of Professional Psychology, her Master's of 22 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: Public Health degree with a Maternal and Child health concentration 23 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: from Tulane University, and her undergraduate degree from Xavier University 24 00:01:56,960 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: of Louisiana, which of course is where we met. Dr 25 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: Pete and I discuss some of the cultural issues that 26 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: impact the conversation around Black women in fertility, some of 27 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: the alternative paths to motherhood her clients have employed, how 28 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: she helps her clients manage their mental health through these processes, 29 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: and she shared her favorite resources for anyone who wants 30 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: to learn more about the topic. If something really connects 31 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: with you while listening, please share it with us on 32 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: social media using the hashtag tv G in Session. Here's 33 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,079 Speaker 1: our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us to 34 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: daydreak good. Thank you for having me. Dr Joy. I'm 35 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: so excited to be here, very excited to have you. 36 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: I'm happy our schedules were finally able to align to 37 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 1: get you on the podcast. Yes, yeah, and I do 38 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,360 Speaker 1: think it's really important and really timely for you to 39 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: be here chatting with me because there have definitely been 40 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: lots and lots of conversations around infertility. Um it feels like, 41 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 1: you know, just in the media and kind of in community. UM, 42 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: so can you tell me what are some of the 43 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: most common causes of infertility? Yeah, you know, and fertility 44 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: impact a lot of people, and there are a lot 45 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: of things that we do know and a lot of 46 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 1: things that we don't know. Um, And so from a 47 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: risk factor perspective, there's lots of things, specially thinking about women, 48 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: there is history of fibroids, endometriosis, polycystic ovarian syndrome about 49 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: people who have endometriosis will experience some degree of infertility. 50 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: And you know, I'm not sure if you're aware of 51 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: what endometriosis is, well, if our listeners really know what 52 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: that is. But it's when like there's a tissue that's 53 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: similar to the tissue that's in the uterus that kind 54 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: of gets in other parts of the pelvic area and 55 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: it can make it difficult to sustain a pregnancy. And 56 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: the polycystical variant syndrome that I mentioned previously is a 57 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: hormonal imbalance where there is an excessive amount of androgens, 58 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: so that's also a rispector. Other respectors are previous histories 59 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: of certain s t I s being really significantly out 60 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: of your B M I weight range, so being very 61 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:17,799 Speaker 1: overweight or very underweight. It's also something to be thoughtful about. 62 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: And then there's some pieces of infertility that we just 63 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: don't know what's causing it, so that's also extremely frustrating 64 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: for people as well. Yeah, I'm glad you said that, 65 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: because I would imagine that that is really frustrating, right, 66 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: like to we not have anything going on that you've 67 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,559 Speaker 1: mentioned and still not be sure why you cannot sustain them. Yeah, 68 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, and I think it's really hard. I think 69 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: you know about it's about a third. There's gonna be 70 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: different numbers out there, but there's about a third of 71 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: Like when you're thinking about couples who are experiencing infertility, 72 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: about a third of that it can be due to 73 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: infertility or fertility issues related to the woman. About a 74 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: third of that can be fertility issues related to the mail, 75 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: and then a third of that is just sort of unexplained. 76 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: And I find that for a lot of my clients, 77 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,280 Speaker 1: they really have a heart and difficult time with that. 78 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: MM hmm. Yeah, So what are some of the most 79 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: common kinds of concerns? You know, when you have either 80 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: singles or couples coming to you with concerns, what are 81 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: some of the most common things that they're struggling with. Well, 82 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,799 Speaker 1: you know, I think, first off, there's just a lot 83 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: of grief, and I think sometimes people don't recognize it 84 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: as grief or realize it as grief. They think, for 85 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: many people, and this is not true for all people, 86 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 1: but for many people, they spent a majority of their 87 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: life trying to prevent pregnancy, right, and then they make 88 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: a decision or a choice to sort of expand their family, 89 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: and then when that doesn't happen naturally or easily, then 90 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: there's a grief process that happens with that. And then 91 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: for people who are single, there's sometimes a grief process 92 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: that happens with that of it not happen in a 93 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: way that they thought it might have. And so I 94 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: see a lot of that. I think some of the 95 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: other stuff that I see a lot of is a 96 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: lot of anxiety. If you think about it, like you're 97 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 1: constantly sort of worrying and waiting and wanting to know 98 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: is it gonna happen this month? Is it not gonna 99 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: happen this month? And then if you're undergoing any kind 100 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: of fertility treatments, then this you're often thinking about, like, well, 101 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: what am I eating? What am I putting in my body? 102 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,160 Speaker 1: Am I doing all the right things? Am I taking 103 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: my medicine at the right time? And my am I 104 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: too stressed out? Am I not stressed out enough? Should 105 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: I be worried about this? And so I think a 106 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: lot of times people are just experiencing a lot of 107 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: anxiety because it's just a really anxiety provoking process. Yeah, 108 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: and I would imagine that that would be really hard 109 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: to work with, right, I mean, because I think, you know, 110 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: just the entire like the whole idea of like either 111 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: becoming pregnant or not becoming pregnant, Like, there's just a 112 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: lot of anxiety around that entire process. And yeah, how 113 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: how do you work with your clients to try to 114 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: manage some of that anxiety? Well, you know, I think 115 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: the first thing is that validated. You know, I think 116 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 1: a lot of times, a lot of whelming meaning people 117 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: and you know, my clients lives are like, don't worry 118 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: about it, don't be so stressed out. About it. You know, 119 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: I got pregnant when I stopped thinking about it, you know, 120 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: And I think people are sort of really well intentioned 121 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: when they're saying that, But I also think that you know, 122 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: there is some validity and that this is something that 123 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: you really cannot control and that it is making you 124 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 1: feel anxious. And so one of the first things I 125 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: do is really try to validate their experience, give them 126 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: a place to be able to put it out there 127 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: and process it, because I don't think they really have 128 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,559 Speaker 1: those places, and not because people don't care. It's because 129 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: people want them to feel better. They don't want them 130 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: to word, so they try and take it away. And 131 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: then I think the other thing that I really try 132 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: to help clients do is to stay as grounded in 133 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: the present moment as possible. And so really a lot 134 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:02,239 Speaker 1: of mindfulness is really helpful when working with this, because 135 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: you can only deal with what you can deal with 136 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: what's right in front of you right now. You don't 137 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: know what's gonna happen next week when you are expecting 138 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: your period, or you don't know what's gonna happen or 139 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: what the result of this next text is going to be, 140 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: So I really try to help people get into more 141 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: of a mindful space and really learn how to anchor 142 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: themselves in the present moment. So that's something that I 143 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: do a lot. Yeah, it seems like those kinds of 144 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 1: strategies and techniques would be really helpful. M Yeah, So 145 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,719 Speaker 1: you know, I know that there are lots of options, 146 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 1: you know, like if people have kind of exhausted all 147 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: of the options um related to kind of the natural 148 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: or typical way that people become pregnant. What are some 149 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: other options are path to motherhood that you maybe help 150 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: your clients explore. Well, you know, there is assistant reproductive technologies. 151 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: It's called a r T, and I work with so 152 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: many couples and some single people they're called choy parents 153 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: who are really using these methods to grow their families. 154 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 1: And a r T or system reproductive technologies is very broad. 155 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: That's sort of like the umbrella, and there are lots 156 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,959 Speaker 1: of different ways to do it underneath that, and so 157 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: some of those the most common are what we call 158 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: i UI, which is an intra uterine insemination. And so 159 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: in the i U I process, it's just when there's 160 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 1: a concentrated sperm that is inserted directly into the woman's uterus, 161 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: and so say that is a heterosexual couple and they 162 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: there are lots of tests that are involved in that, 163 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: and so if they're still good egg quality and there's 164 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: still good sperm quality, then that is also an option. 165 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: The other option is IVF, which is in vitro fertilization, 166 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: and that's the process where the eggs are taken and 167 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:00,960 Speaker 1: extracted from the uters and then a sperm is you 168 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: get a sample of that and they are sort of 169 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,719 Speaker 1: mixed together in dish to create an embryo. And then 170 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: once the embryo is formed, then the embryo is implanted 171 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: and transferred directly into the woman. So those are some 172 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: really common options that people use, and there are different 173 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: reasons for going down that route. Now, even further down there, 174 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 1: you can do egg donation. So say, for example, women 175 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: whose eggs are not viable for whatever reason, they can 176 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: seek to have egg donation and use their partner sperm. 177 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: Or perhaps there's an issue with the sperm, or perhaps 178 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: you're a single person or you are saying sex couple, 179 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: you can get sperm donation. You can also have embryo donation. 180 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: So there are times when people have left over embryos 181 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: and they're healthy and they're not going to use them 182 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: and they don't want them to be discarded. They will 183 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: put them up for embryo adoption, and then the embryo 184 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: you could be stayed. A couple could choose this embryo 185 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: and have it implanted via IVF. So there are lots 186 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 1: of options, and I would also imagine with those options though, 187 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: that also comes with some challenges. So can you talk 188 00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: about maybe some of the challenges your clients have even 189 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: if they've decided on that process. Yeah, I mean, I 190 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: think it comes with a lot of challenges. I think specifically, 191 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: Number one is it spitsific. I mean, a round of 192 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 1: IVF typically in general costs about twenty dollars, and insurance 193 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: may or may not cover any of that. So there 194 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: is a huge financial component, okay. And that it's not 195 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 1: even talking about the stress and strain that it puts 196 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: on a person's body to go through this process. Because 197 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: when you're going through fertility treatments, you are taking a 198 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 1: lot of medication to prepare your body for ovulation. You're 199 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: getting injections of hormones, and so there's a lot of 200 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: physical changes that you're happening that are happening in your 201 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: body at one time, and not just physical, but you know, 202 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: hormones also impact you emotionally, so there are a lot 203 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: of emotional changes and things that may feel extremely unsettling 204 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: to you, to your partner, to your friends and family. 205 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: People may not understand why you're acting a certain way 206 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: or while you're behaving a certain way. And then in 207 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: addition to that, there's a significant and this is another 208 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: piece of where the anxiety really comes in, is that 209 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 1: you have to go to these appointments based around your cycle. 210 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: So you can't just say, oh, I'm gonna take off 211 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: next Friday from work and I'm gonna take care of 212 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,320 Speaker 1: all this stuff like whenever your cycle starts, so you 213 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: have to be vigilant about when that's happening. And then 214 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: you have to have enough flexibility within your work situation 215 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: to be able to attend these appointments kind of at random, 216 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 1: you know, without a lot of notice. And I think 217 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: that just causes a lot of stress. And because there's 218 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: still a lot of stigma. I'm so grateful we're talking 219 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: about this. There's a lot of stigma, especially within the 220 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 1: black community, around this that people are not necessarily really 221 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: open about what's happening for them, and so they're sort 222 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: of going through this process with limited amounts of support 223 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: at times, and so I think it's just really stressful. 224 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: And I'm glad you said that because I do think, 225 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 1: you know, that there's a lot of like misinformation um 226 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: about like what these processes involved. But also I think 227 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,160 Speaker 1: there can be this thought that like black women don't 228 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: struggle with this, like we're just supposed to be super fertile, right, 229 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: kind of dating back to some of those old stereotypes 230 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: about what black women are. And so you know, having 231 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: to even maybe admit that you're having these struggles, I 232 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 1: think feels like a big deal for a lot of people. Yeah, completely, 233 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful that you mentioned that because I 234 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: think just like culturally, the messages that you know, historically 235 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: have been put out about Black women is very high 236 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: for sexualized and very fertile. Right, So there's this sort 237 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: of message that has been placed on black women in 238 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: the community about our ability to be fertile, and then 239 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: that's sort of what's placed on us. But then I 240 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 1: think within the black community there is this this sense 241 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: about family, you know, that that being central and important, 242 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: and so I think a lot of times, there's a 243 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: lot of pressure to feel like you are extending your family, right, 244 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: like you're creating additional children, You're you're creating your own 245 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: family unit. And I think that's a lot of pressure. 246 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: And then when we're talking just culturally, there's a lot 247 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: of stigma about like keeping you know, your business to yourself, right. 248 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: There's there's a lot of that in the black community, 249 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: about not telling your business to everybody and being private 250 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: and superwoman and being able to handle everything and be 251 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: seen as having it all together all the time. So 252 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: I just think there's a lot of different sort of 253 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: nuances culturally that adds to the pressure of this. Yeah, 254 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: and I think drinking would also want to hear more about, 255 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: Like I would imagine that this can be really stressful 256 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: for couples, um, you know, like how do you have 257 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: maybe some of those difficult conversations or you know, And 258 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: I know I've seen it depicted like on TV, but 259 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure some of this is real about like when 260 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 1: are we going to kind of say enough, like what's 261 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: going to be the line? You know? Um, So I'm 262 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: curious about like some of those conversations and how you 263 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: might be able to broach those kinds of topics. You know, 264 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: that is such a like pertinent question, you know that 265 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: comes up a lot, and I have seen it in 266 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: all types of couples and heterosexual couples, in same sex 267 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 1: couples of like when is enough enough? And a lot 268 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: of times one person is really pushing to keep going, 269 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: and the other person it's like I need, like this 270 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: has to stop. And it tends to be the partner 271 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: that is not undergoing the physical treatment that wants it 272 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: to stop. It's very interesting and it's almost like for 273 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: one of the partner from in my experience, it's mostly 274 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: like they have gone through all of this and their 275 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: bodies and they just feel like they wanted to be 276 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 1: worth something. They want, you know, there to be having 277 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: an outcome. And so I think it's really difficult because 278 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: it feels really hard to be on the opposite end 279 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: of a spectrum with someone your partner, where you're trying 280 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: to grow your family, and it can put you sort 281 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: of at odds. And oftentimes what I encourage couples to 282 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: do is to be honest with what they're experiencing and 283 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: what they're feeling, even if they are afraid of hurting 284 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: the other person's feelings, because a lot of times I 285 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 1: will get the sense that one person wants to stop 286 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: and the other person doesn't, and it's just sort of 287 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: showing up in their attitude versus just saying it directly. 288 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: And so I encourage Number one, I encourage couples to 289 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 1: have open, honest dialogue, even when it's difficult and it's hard. 290 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 1: The second thing I really think is important to think 291 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: about with that is really questioning why you want to 292 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: stop or why you want to keep going, Like really 293 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: asking yourself what is motivating me to keep going? Is 294 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: it this idea that like I'm only a woman if 295 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: I have a child? Is it this idea that our 296 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 1: family is only valid if we have children. Is it 297 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: that we've already spent this much money so we can't 298 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 1: stop now? Like what is really motivating you to continue? 299 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: And then see, do you really believe that? Because a 300 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: lot of times we just keep going based off of 301 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 1: these stories that we have in our minds that we've 302 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: just accepted as true, but we haven't evaluated them and 303 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: really understanding like is this a message that you're getting 304 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: from society or is this something that's coming from you internally? 305 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,720 Speaker 1: And then also asking yourself the same question if you're 306 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: the person that wants to stop, like, is this fear? 307 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: Is this just about money? Is painful for me to 308 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: see my partner going through this, and I just feel 309 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 1: completely helpless. So really evaluating these things may not necessarily 310 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,159 Speaker 1: just give you a clear understanding of what decision you 311 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: want to make, but it can help you be able 312 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: to have a conversation in a constructive way. Those are 313 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: some great tips drinking, and I do think you know 314 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: a lot of that could be helpful even for discussing 315 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: other kinds of things, especially the part about holding onto 316 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: these stories and we don't even know one where they 317 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: came from or why we are still believing it um, 318 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 1: you know, so really evaluating it to see if it 319 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: is true for you, I think could be helpful in 320 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: a lot of different situations. Absolutely, So you've already mentioned 321 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: some of the expense that may be related to, you know, 322 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: kind of undergoing some of these uh procedures and stuff. 323 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: But I'm wondering also just because I do feel like 324 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,959 Speaker 1: we are seeing more in pop culture, especially around like 325 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,400 Speaker 1: women freezing their eggs, and jobs are offering this as 326 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 1: a um as a benefit in some cases what the 327 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: things should people be thinking about besides like the cost 328 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: related to it um in terms of like, you know 329 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: what they may be kind of signing up for. Yeah, 330 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 1: you know what, And I'm grateful that you said it. 331 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: I want to go back to because I didn't even 332 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:19,120 Speaker 1: mention gestational carriers or or um syrocacy. Yeah, okay, good. 333 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: I was like, I didn't even mention that. But some 334 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: of the other things, like when you're mentioning sort of 335 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,679 Speaker 1: freezing your eggs and things like that, people are even 336 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: like men are even choosing to bank their firm sometimes 337 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: and it's called fertility preservation. And I think, you know, 338 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,640 Speaker 1: when you start to think about that kind of thing 339 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: for yourself, it's like, especially if you are a single 340 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: person or you feel like you're not financially in the 341 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,320 Speaker 1: place where you want to start your family with having children, 342 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: then I think you need to just think about finances. 343 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: We talked about that, but also thinking about it from 344 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: a moral and sort of spiritual standpoint, like how do 345 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: you really feel about all of this? I think that's 346 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: a out of conflict that some people really have. What 347 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: do you really think about life and where it begins 348 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: in reproduction? And what does it mean to have your 349 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: eggs stored? Or what does it mean to have embryo stored? 350 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: I think these are really tough questions that I don't 351 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: think people really think about necessarily, and then they're in 352 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:22,439 Speaker 1: the process and they start to feel discomfort because they 353 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: haven't wrestled with some of these realities of that this 354 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: is a medical process and so it really sometimes bucks 355 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,679 Speaker 1: up against people's religious, spiritual, or moral beliefs, and so 356 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: really thinking about that and and where where you fall 357 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: with that, how you align with that before you get 358 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: into the process, so that you can make a clear 359 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,880 Speaker 1: decision for yourself, because again, you might start to feel 360 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: bullied into making a choice that you don't really feel 361 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 1: comfortable with because you've already spent so much money, or 362 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: you've already done one thing or another. So those are 363 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: some of the things. So that answer your question, Yeah, okay, 364 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't. I have never heard that aspect brought Aldrica. 365 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: So I'm glad you highlighted that because I do think, 366 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: you know, people may have some kinds of feelings about that. 367 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: But again, you don't ever hear that specific piece of 368 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: the of the puzzle really highlighted. You just hear like oh, 369 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: you're getting close to thirty five. So if you're gonna 370 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: want to have kids at some point, you better go 371 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,479 Speaker 1: explore other options. Right. So, I don't know that we 372 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:25,080 Speaker 1: always get like a full picture of everything that should 373 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: be considered when you're making that decision. Yeah, And I 374 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: think people don't realize that they may have those feelings, 375 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: you know. It's almost one of those things like until 376 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: they start getting into the process. You know. I've had 377 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: so many clients come in and almost whisper and say, 378 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, this just kind of feels unnatural to me, 379 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,480 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm like, Okay, let's talk about that. 380 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,840 Speaker 1: They didn't even really think about that beforehand. And so 381 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: I think wrestling with that is really important. And not 382 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: only that, but also really identifying like your support, right, 383 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: Like you have to be careful who you share things 384 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: with because not everyone is going to be able to 385 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: support you, because we all have our own stuff, we 386 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: all have our own views and opinions about things. But 387 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: really being able to identify people who are support people 388 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: for you and really be able to sort of talk 389 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: through and restle through some of these things you may 390 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily think about, especially like single choice parents as 391 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: we call them, like, think about the impact it may 392 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: have on a future relationship, Like, you haven't met that 393 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: person yet, so you don't know how they may feel 394 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: about if you go ahead and preserve your eggs or 395 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: some people even go and get donors and make embryos 396 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,200 Speaker 1: and store them, Like you just never know how people 397 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,360 Speaker 1: might feel about that, and are you okay with that? 398 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: And that's what it's all about. It's about individually really 399 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: thinking through these things and deciding for yourself what you're 400 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 1: okay with. So I do want to add in, Like 401 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: we were talking about this using the surrogate to carrier down, 402 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: so what are some of the kind of special precautions 403 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: and things we want to think through around that. I mean, 404 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: I think this one is really different because there are 405 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: different ways to do that in different reasons why you 406 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: do it. But this is you're bringing in a whole 407 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: other person into your um process of having this baby, right, 408 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of control that you're giving up 409 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: when someone else is physically carrying your child, right, So 410 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: I think they're there's just a lot of different pieces 411 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: of that. So you can use a seriat or gestational 412 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: carrier with your own eggs and your partner sperm or 413 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: your own eggs and a donor sperm or a donor embryo. 414 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: It could be all sorts of ways that that happens 415 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 1: and reasons why you may choose to do that. But 416 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: you know, with any carrier that you use, they do 417 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: have to have a full psychological evaluation, So I think 418 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: it's really significant and important to do that. I think 419 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: they're also really thoughtful about who this person is, whether 420 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 1: you go through an agency or whether or not you 421 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: use a friend or someone offers to do it for you. 422 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: I think it's really important to really think about the 423 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: proximity of this person in your life. And I will 424 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: tell you that some times the proximity may be a 425 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: sibling or something like that that works beautifully. Other times 426 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: that as complications because sometimes especially if someone is asked 427 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,199 Speaker 1: to be a gestational career or a surrogate, they may 428 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: feel pressure to say yes just based off of the relationship. 429 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: It may not really have wanted to do it, so 430 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: that also can be some pressure, which hopefully that would 431 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: come out in a psychological evaluation. But you also have 432 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: to have a counseling session with they're called the intended parents. 433 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,160 Speaker 1: These are the people who will be taking the baby 434 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: home with them and the gestational carrier present, and a 435 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,679 Speaker 1: lot of times people are just so old excited and 436 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: want the process to go smoothly that they don't want 437 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 1: to press. They feel like the person is carrying their baby, 438 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: so they can, you know, just whatever they can do 439 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: to make it easier for them, they're gonna do that, 440 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: and so they're not really fully forthcoming with like, yeah, 441 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: I really do want to come to all of the 442 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: doctor's appointments, or yes, I really would prefer for you 443 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 1: to stay away from caffeine, and yes I really would 444 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: you know, I would really appreciate it if you didn't 445 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 1: travel to a country to Hezeka right now, or I 446 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: would really appreciate it if you gave me a call 447 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,360 Speaker 1: before you went out of town, like just being honest 448 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: with what you would really hope and what you would 449 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: really expect about the process, because otherwise resentment can start 450 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:50,120 Speaker 1: to build as the relationship goes on. Does that make sense, Yeah, 451 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: it seems like there would be a lot of communication 452 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: that would need to happen. Yeah, there are a lot 453 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: of questions and just and then there's the financial aspect 454 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: of it, of like because often times UM, a carrier 455 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: or seragate is financially compensated, especially if it comes through 456 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: an agency, UM, And so just making sure that you 457 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: don't feel taking advantage of, but making sure that people 458 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,719 Speaker 1: feel compensated and they're not feeling taking advantage of as 459 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: a carrier or surrogate. And so it's just it's a 460 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: lot of dynamics that happens in a personally and there 461 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: are a lot of beautiful, wonderful relationships that come through that. 462 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,639 Speaker 1: But I just think you have to be extremely intentional, 463 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: extremely intentional, and really communicative and always checking in to 464 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 1: make sure that you stay on the same page. So 465 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: I know that you do these evaluations correct, Yes, I do. 466 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 1: What kinds of things are you looking for to determine 467 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: whether somebody is like a good candidate to be a 468 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: surrogate or justational carrier? Yeah, I mean I think you know, 469 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: it's a full process. They come in, they feel out 470 00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: a lot of questionnaires, especially if they're going through an agency, 471 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: so they feel out a lot of information just sort 472 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: of about themselves, you know, their likes and dislike, their background, 473 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,879 Speaker 1: their history, and I think the couples then go through 474 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: and sort of look at all that information and try 475 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: to match themselves with sort of personality wise. Um So, 476 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: I think a lot of that is taken care of 477 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: by the agencies before they even come to me. When 478 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: they come to me, I really want to do a full, 479 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 1: like sort of thorough clinical interview, just really getting a 480 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: sense of somebody's really their ability to really consent to 481 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 1: this process, because it it really is they're putting their 482 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: health at risk in some ways, you know, and their 483 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: body and everything. So making sure that they really have 484 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: a full awareness and understanding about what it is they're 485 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: signing up for, so their ability to be able to 486 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: fully consent to this process. You also want to see 487 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 1: somebody that wants to do it, not just for a 488 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: financial situation. There has to be some altruism in it. 489 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,959 Speaker 1: Otherwise I think they can start to feel resent pretty quickly. 490 00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: So I think there's a piece of that that really 491 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: wants to really want to think about. I really look 492 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: at the stability of their lives, their position with children. 493 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: How many children have they had, how did those pregnancies go, 494 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,400 Speaker 1: how did those deliveries go? Do they plan to have 495 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: any more children? Because you really want to be thoughtful 496 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:19,760 Speaker 1: about what if something happens and you're no longer able 497 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: to have children, Like, how is that going to impact 498 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: you in your own fertility history? Looking at their mental 499 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: health history, you know, really wanting to make sure that 500 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: they're stable and able to sort of deal with some 501 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,640 Speaker 1: of the emotional stress that not only comes from carrying 502 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: a child to term, but in dealing with a very 503 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: special type in different relationships. So looking at their mental 504 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: health history and then also trauma background, anything that may 505 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: get triggered through this process, it's important to really make 506 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: sure that they've worked through that, that they have awareness 507 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: and they have support in their lives to help them individually. 508 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: Then I also give them a Personality Assessment Inventory a 509 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:04,200 Speaker 1: p I just also sort of have an objective measure 510 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: to see if there's any any mental health or personality 511 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 1: things that I should really be aware of. Yeah, so 512 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: it definitely sounds like a very thorough process that it's 513 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 1: the evaluation piece of it. Yeah, it is. It's pretty thorough, 514 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: But I mean, you know, you still can't predict exactly 515 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 1: what's going to happen, of course, of course, right of course, 516 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: So just so drinking it feels like a common theme 517 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: that I have heard out of much of what you 518 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 1: said today is like really helping to slow down the 519 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: process because I can imagine, you know, especially if you 520 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 1: haven't done this evaluation of like why am I doing this? 521 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: Like at some point it begins to feel like a 522 00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 1: finish line, right, like that this is this thing I'm 523 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: trying to achieve and I just gotta keep running without 524 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: really figuring out, like you said, why am I doing this? 525 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,000 Speaker 1: You know, am I really committed to going this far? 526 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 1: You know? What's going to be kind of like the 527 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: when I call it quiz kind of thing. So it 528 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: sounds like there's a lot of like just slowing down 529 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 1: the process and really help when people to think through 530 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: their decisions that you do with your clients, yeah, I do, 531 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: and it actually goes against what they really want a 532 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: lot of times because there's a lot of pressure, like, well, 533 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: if I'm gonna get in by this because everything is 534 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: about your cycle, So if I'm going to get in 535 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: by this cycle, then I have to do it by 536 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: this date. You know. It's like there's a lot of 537 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: I need to hurry up because I need to get 538 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: all of this stuff done, or there's a round of 539 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: tests that they've done and with the reproductive endor canologists, 540 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 1: which is UM the physicians that they're working with. Those 541 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: tests are only good for a certain period of time, 542 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 1: so if it doesn't work within you know, a certain 543 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: period of time, they have to redo the test. So 544 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure to move quickly through the process. 545 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:52,200 Speaker 1: And so I think it's almost really difficult for them 546 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: when I'm trying to slow them down a little bit. 547 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: M Yeah, I mean it feels like, but it's also 548 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: very needed because of all the reasons that you've identified. 549 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:06,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, you know. And then I think to like, 550 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: I think we can't talk about this without talking about loss. Um. 551 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: You know, lots of miscarriages, lots of laws, and I 552 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: know you've had a podcast recently about miscarriage and you know, 553 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: UM surviving that. And I think that also adds a 554 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 1: lot to the pressure. You know, people have experienced like 555 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: maybe even positive pregnancy tests and then losing the child, 556 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: or they've had failed IVF attempts, you know, in the past, 557 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 1: and they're just trying to get it to work as 558 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: soon as possible, right like, if they feel this pressure, um, 559 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: And so I think that plays a part in the 560 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: anxiety of it as well. Yeah, absolutely, I'm glad you 561 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,280 Speaker 1: brought that up. So I know something that I've loved 562 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: that I've seen you do before, Drinka is really helping 563 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: people to kind of develop strategies to be happy, be 564 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: with the life they have while they're building towards the 565 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,040 Speaker 1: life they'd like to have. Um. So, I was wondering 566 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: if you could share some tips for people who are 567 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: you know, maybe in this phase or thinking about you know, 568 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: starting some treatments and things for how they can kind 569 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: of you know, be okay right now. Yes, And this 570 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: is super important for our couples out there too because 571 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: a lot of the relationship issues and concerns. I know 572 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 1: we talked about like when one person wants to stop 573 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: another person and doesn't, But a lot of times it's 574 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: like this becomes the third person in the relationship, right, 575 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: Like this be trying to have a baby, becomes the 576 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: third wheel in the relationship, and it's like everything that 577 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: you do or talk about is all about this. So 578 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: I really encourage couples to create their bucket list, and 579 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: that's like these things that they really want to do, 580 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: new things, new places, things they want to try, you know, 581 00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:54,640 Speaker 1: just to really fully engage in their lives. Outside of 582 00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: having a child, right, like or because another thing that 583 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: we haven't talked about is secondary infertility, which is also 584 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: something that's really um painful for a lot of people. 585 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,920 Speaker 1: So they may have one child but still experiencing secondary infertility, 586 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: that's not being able to carry a baby to term 587 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: or conceive after having viable pregnancy previously, and so it 588 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: becomes this third person in the relationship. And so really 589 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 1: sort of giving themselves a focus other than trying to 590 00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: have a baby is really helpful. And then I think 591 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: you can do that whether you're in a relationship or not. 592 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: I think even a single person, you can do that 593 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: just really fully engaged in your life, thinking about what 594 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: are some things that I really just want to try, 595 00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: you know, or places I want to go. So that's 596 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: one thing, and then I keep coming back to mindfulness 597 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: and staying in the present. One of my other passions 598 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 1: and love is yoga, and I recently completed my yoga 599 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: teacher training and have been weaving at into my practice 600 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: more and more, and that is really helping people really 601 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: sort of connect to their bodies and what their bodies 602 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 1: do for them, right because a lot of fertility is like, oh, 603 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: my body is failing me, you know, it's not doing 604 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,600 Speaker 1: what it's supposed to be doing, but really sort of 605 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: the strength that your body provide for you every day 606 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: in the sense of walking you around and um allowing 607 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,879 Speaker 1: you to eat food, and allowing you to see things 608 00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: you enjoy and smell things that you really enjoy, and 609 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: so really helping people to connect into their bodies and 610 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: ground in the present moment and also into the gifts 611 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 1: of their bodies and enjoy their lives, you know, and 612 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: what their bodies can do for them is something that 613 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 1: I also really try to work with clients about and 614 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 1: even and this is really hard for people, but I 615 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: sometimes encourage people to even write a thank you letter 616 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,879 Speaker 1: to their bodies for all the ways that it has 617 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,320 Speaker 1: supported them throughout life, because I think there's a lot 618 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: of attention on the ways that the body is failing 619 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: them so and there's just not a lot of at 620 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 1: tension on the ways in which your body is supporting you. Yeah, 621 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: and I think that they're likely could be even a 622 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,720 Speaker 1: disconnect between like you and your body after like maybe 623 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: going through so many medical procedures that it all, oh yeah, 624 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 1: like a foreign kind of thing, right, So the letter 625 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,120 Speaker 1: writing might help this, you know, to even kind of 626 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: do some connection back to this is actually where I live, 627 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,840 Speaker 1: the body that I occupy, yeah, you know. And I 628 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,880 Speaker 1: also if people can't slow down the process, like you 629 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: know what, like if you've been trying for a long 630 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:34,640 Speaker 1: time and you know your birthday month is coming up, 631 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: why not take that month off, right, like enjoy yourself, 632 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: enjoy your birthday, like give yourself sort of fertility breaks. 633 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,319 Speaker 1: I can't. I try to tell people, because you know what, 634 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:50,759 Speaker 1: sometimes people, you know, enjoy it. Like people spend six too, 635 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: sometimes ten years in this process, you know, and so 636 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: sometimes giving yourself breaks it is needed, you know, to 637 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,640 Speaker 1: just reconnect with your life and other ways. And so 638 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: that's one of the other things that I talked to 639 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,359 Speaker 1: them about too, like would this be a good time 640 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: to just take a fertility break? Yeah? Probably, you even 641 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: giving them permission mixed it better absolutely yea. So, so 642 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: what are some of the books and things that you 643 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,319 Speaker 1: find yourself kind of recommending over and over? You know, 644 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: I think there's so much out there, and so this 645 00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: is this is my thing. There's something out there for you, 646 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,920 Speaker 1: for every personality, for every person who's like I just 647 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,560 Speaker 1: want the science for every person who was like, oh, 648 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: but I want the natural, you know, I want to 649 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,000 Speaker 1: go into acupuncture and I want to do this. Like 650 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 1: there's something out there for you, Tobe. But to be 651 00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 1: careful because you can't get overloaded with all of the websites, 652 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,919 Speaker 1: all of the Instagram accounts, Like you can be sucked in, 653 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: but then it can make you anxious about things you 654 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: didn't even know could happen. Right, So it's like also 655 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: being mindful of like as I talk about these things, 656 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: also being mindful of how much you're using it and 657 00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,919 Speaker 1: giving yourself some breaks from even some of the social media. Um. 658 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,280 Speaker 1: But there's some great podcasts out there. There is Sisters 659 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,560 Speaker 1: in Laws, which is a really good podcast. It is 660 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: by sort of air comment like a I can't I'm 661 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: not McAfee. Uh yeah, I think that's really good. Black 662 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: Girl's Guide to Fertility Sunhara Eastman, that's a good podcast 663 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,360 Speaker 1: that's out there. There is like, like we talked about, 664 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: I think miscarriage and fertility issues sometimes go hand in 665 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,200 Speaker 1: hand for some people, for a lot of people, So 666 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: I had a miscarriage that's on Instagram. That's really good. Um, 667 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 1: some books just about fertility in general, it's like it 668 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: starts with the egg. And then some apps for just 669 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: the mindfulness is there's one called FERTI Calm f E 670 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 1: R T I C A l M, and so that's 671 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: really just mind body sort of self help skills for fertility. 672 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: Um Headspace is another great mindfulness app. There's IVF Planner, 673 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: which really helps you keep track of your doctor's appointment. 674 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: So there's just so many different things on there. But 675 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: there's another thing that I want to make sure that 676 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: I mentioned, and this because this makes me think about 677 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: a different book, is that sometimes people don't feel like 678 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: they have permission to stop, to just say I'm not 679 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: going to do this anymore. And there's not a lot 680 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: of support out there, and a lot of these forms 681 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:31,719 Speaker 1: people are actively trying to get pregnant. They're actively you know, 682 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: and so you're not gonna find a lot of people 683 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: saying I'm just not gonna do this anymore, you know. 684 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: And so I have seen so many people struggle and 685 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:44,920 Speaker 1: try to find like support groups and for just people 686 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: who just want to stop and figure out how to 687 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 1: live again post fertility issues. And so there's a book 688 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 1: called Sweet Grapes and it's by Gene J. E. A. N. 689 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 1: Carter and Michael Carter. It is a wife and husband team. 690 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: I believe they're both physicians, and they talk about their 691 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,920 Speaker 1: UM fertility journey and making the conscious choice to stop 692 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: and how to then live your life again post fertility 693 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: issues and post trying and striving for that. So I 694 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:24,200 Speaker 1: think that's also a really good resource for people UM. 695 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,880 Speaker 1: And then the last one is Resolved r E. S 696 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,759 Speaker 1: O l v E dot org. It's sort of like 697 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,120 Speaker 1: the national sort of infertility UM website. It has so 698 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 1: much information about just the facts about what infertility is, 699 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,239 Speaker 1: the acronyms, the medical tests, all kinds of stuff. So 700 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,360 Speaker 1: it's a really good resource, and it can you connect 701 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: you to lots of different support groups that happened both 702 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: online and in person in different regions of the United States. 703 00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: Perfect those sounds like some incredible resources. Than yeah, so 704 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:00,920 Speaker 1: where can people find you on line? I would imagine 705 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: that people are going to want to find out what 706 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:04,840 Speaker 1: do you do? They want to know more about you. 707 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: What's your website as well as any social media handles 708 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: you want to share? Yes, so my website is www 709 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: dot Women's Wellness Atlanta dot com. So that's Women's w 710 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:24,080 Speaker 1: O m e n S Wellness Atlanta dot com and 711 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: then you can also find me on Instagram at a 712 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 1: Breathing Space for women, and then I am also on 713 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: Facebook at Women's Wellness Atlanta Cool and all of that 714 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: will be included in the show notes For anybody who 715 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,919 Speaker 1: didn't catch it, okay, perfect well, thank you so much 716 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,160 Speaker 1: for sharing this information with us today, Dr Pete. I 717 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,920 Speaker 1: know it will be so helpful to people. Thank you 718 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: so much. It's so it's just so fun to get 719 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: to do this with you, just from college to now. 720 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 1: It's amazing, and I'm just so grateful for what you're 721 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: doing because I know you're just helping so many people. 722 00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,640 Speaker 1: So thanks, Dr Joy, thank you, thank you for sharing 723 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,360 Speaker 1: with us. I'm so happy Dr Pete was able to 724 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,480 Speaker 1: share her expertise with us today. To check out the 725 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: resources that she shared and to learn more about her practice, 726 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 1: visit the show notes at Therapy for Black Girls dot 727 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: com slash session see and please make sure to share 728 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 1: your takeaways from the episode in your I G stories 729 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: or on Twitter. Be sure to use the hashtag tv 730 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: G in session so that we can share them. If 731 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,719 Speaker 1: you're looking for a therapist in your area, be sure 732 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: to visit the therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls 733 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: dot com slash directory, and don't forget to check out 734 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,359 Speaker 1: the Therapy for Black Girls store to grab a T shirt, sweatshirt, 735 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: or a mug to show your love for the podcast. 736 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: You can find this at Therapy for Black Girls dot 737 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 1: com slash shop. And if you want to continue this 738 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: conversation and join a community of other sisters who listen 739 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: to the podcast, join us over in the thrive Tribe, 740 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: which is the Facebook group for community. You can request 741 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:06,120 Speaker 1: to join at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash Tribe. 742 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: Make sure you answer the three questions that are asked 743 00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:13,360 Speaker 1: to gain entry. Thank you all so much for joining 744 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: me again this week, and I look forward to continue 745 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 1: in this conversation with you all real soon. Take it 746 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:19,879 Speaker 1: care