WEBVTT - 7. Foul Play 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:03.760 A crazed killer prowling the streets of Manhattan the night 0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:08.680 before nine to eleven. It's evocative and absurd. I mean, sure, 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.400 it's possible, but it's extremely unlikely, so unlikely, I'm not 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.560 going to waste your time seriously considering it. In two 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.919 thousand and one, there was one murder in the NYPD's 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.479 first precinct, a single, non nine to eleven murder in 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:27.160 Lower Manhattan. So the idea of a random killer murdering 0:00:27.240 --> 0:00:30.880 Sneha on September tenth, two thousand and one is ludicrous. 0:00:31.600 --> 0:00:36.040 You might say, well, what about Sneha's quote lifestyle? If 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.720 she met random people at bars, at lesbian bars? What 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:44.000 about that? First off, Snaho was probably safer at lesbian 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.159 bars than at hetero bars packed with men. And the 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:50.360 idea of what a lesbian killer pulling off the perfect 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.560 crime on the eve of nine to eleven, it's laughable. 0:00:54.160 --> 0:00:58.320 Here's Mark Boguten, Ron Liebermann's attorney, could be a victim 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:02.279 of random violence and crazy Hillo running through or then 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.880 had in that night. Okay, and so let's sake to start, 0:01:06.120 --> 0:01:12.360 He testified at the hearing. He said, it's very rare 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:18.160 that somebody is murdered in that fashion without a body 0:01:18.480 --> 0:01:22.839 ever turning up, And that's really what this spoils down 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:28.360 to nobody. Remember we're talking about Manhattan, an island packed 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:32.160 with one point six million people. A body almost certainly 0:01:32.200 --> 0:01:34.720 would have been found on land or in a river. 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:39.319 So when considering explanations forced snayhouse disappearance, I think we 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.959 can safely cross off random act of violence. But what 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.120 about a non random act of violence? What if Snayhau 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:51.560 was killed by someone she knew, maybe even accidentally during 0:01:51.560 --> 0:02:00.160 a heated argument. From My Heart Radio, This is Missing 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.680 on nine to eleven, the story of one woman who 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:05.440 vanished on the eve of history and my quest to 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:38.920 find her. I'm your host, John Waalzac. The NYPD, private investigators, 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.799 and attorneys all focused on the idea of random violence. 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:47.040 You see it repeatedly in court records. Quote a random 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.880 act of foul play, a random act of violence, a 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.079 random act of New York City street violence that they 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:58.240 didn't seriously consider people snaeha New as possible suspects strikes 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.320 me as disingenuous. Most murdered women are killed by men 0:03:02.520 --> 0:03:07.200 they know, and most people, especially cops, private investigators, and 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.240 attorneys know that. What makes you certain that it wasn't 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:12.280 maybe somebody she knew, like, but it wouldn't have been 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.480 somebody she knew, because then that's something you can investigate. 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:18.000 Anybody have a grudge. Was there a beef with their disagreement? 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:21.240 Was she involved in any type of vendetta? He give 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:24.280 was some crazy neighbor. Maybe it's a crazy neighbor upstairs 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:26.360 that she doesn't do it, but he thought or she thought, 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:28.919 you know, she was sending radio waves into his brain. 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.360 And then but no, if it was anybody that she 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:35.880 knew of in her circle, or that's something you could investigate, 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.080 there'd be some sign of them. And they spoke to 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.520 spoke to everybody. Do you think that the NYPD really 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.880 fully investigated this though, because when I looked at Detective 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:50.160 Stark's words and court, it seemed very much like from 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.000 the get go that he just assumed that Snail was 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.360 a trade center victim as far as they can see 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.400 from what his testimony was in the police reports that 0:03:57.480 --> 0:03:59.320 I did. Yeah, they did all the basic stuff, and 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.280 they did everything was required. They said, you do the 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.920 financial records. Obviously did that public record financial records, and 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.600 they spoke to everybody who knew her work and family friends. 0:04:09.720 --> 0:04:12.200 That's what else do you have? Work, family friends. They 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:13.680 did all that, and if there had been some and 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:15.800 they asked those people, obviously those those basic questions you 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:18.200 just brought up. Did anybody have a grudge against her? 0:04:18.279 --> 0:04:20.520 She involved in any type of disputes? And again, it 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.640 seriously possible to some dispute that nobody knew about. So 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.880 I said, maybe it was a crazy neighbor in the building, 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.560 you know, I mean, that's like you I would say, 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.120 that's stress clutching at straws. I mean, it's highly unlikely 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.640 they there's no evidence they pursued that wasn't actually had 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.440 a dispute, grudge, disagreement. I'm sure you can't rule at 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:41.839 one hundercent craz killer. You can't rule out one hundercent. 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:45.720 Maybe there was some grudge, and there were grudges snayhad 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:49.679 did have enemies, people who were not investigated as thoroughly 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:52.160 as they would have been if nine to eleven had 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:56.200 not occurred. What makes you so sure that it could 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.560 not have been foul play at the hands of somebody 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.239 that she knew. I'm sure that it's not foul play, 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.599 as I am that it's not aliens, because what the 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.920 detective said, bodies show up, because there has to be 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.880 some evidence. They did speak to everybody. And you say 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.840 somebody she knew, somebody she knew, it's even even more 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.760 likely because that would have been a trace. It would 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.080 have been Yeah, she had a beef with this person, 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.680 had a dispute. Oh she upset that person or that person, 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:24.919 as they said, maybe it was a neighbor in the building, 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:26.960 but she she was playing the radio too loud and 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.400 this was a psycho and but that, but she had 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.159 she had a dispute at the time, at least with 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:37.480 two people she knew, doctors. She did with the man 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:41.599 who she accused of assaulting her, that was and that 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.240 was a court proceeding, and he brought charges against My 0:05:44.320 --> 0:05:47.039 understanding killer. My understanding is he lived in the same 0:05:47.080 --> 0:05:50.960 building and down the killer. Come on, now, you getting no, no, no, 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.520 even more I mean than the people in court were. No. 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:56.640 I'm not saying, but I'm saying, you know, if you're 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.279 running through all the things wandering the streets in Manhattan, 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.040 or you know, or somebody she's involved in a court 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.839 dispute with, I'm sure the police spoke to him. I'm 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.640 sure obviously the primary person to speak to. I'm sure 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:13.000 they spoke to him. I asked retired NYPD detective Richard 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.800 Stark about the possibility of murder. You don't believe foul 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.000 play is even possible, though, No, I don't seen no 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:21.719 reason in it. I don't see. Well, in the beginning, 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.400 maybe we just looked at Ron saying, because you know, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.320 it s the day of fighting. Yeah, we all auctions 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.960 are opened. That he possibly did something to us. That 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:31.680 was that was on the table too in the beginning. 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:34.560 In the beginning, me and Ron meant about thirty times, 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.040 so we were always meeting. He's always coming over to precinct, 0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:40.520 and well he's got to I just didn't see it 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.640 him doing it, That's all I know. I know the 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:48.279 husband is always suspect number one. But no one I 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:53.520 interviewed seriously thinks that Ron killed Snayha. Everyone described him 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.240 as a gentle soul, someone stricken with grief who went 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:00.440 to great lengths to find her. Do I think Ron 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.279 is telling the truth about everything? No? But do I 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:09.000 think he killed Sneha? No? I don't. However, I do 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:13.760 think the way investigators handled Ron is important because there 0:07:13.760 --> 0:07:17.160 are signs they didn't seriously investigate him, and I think 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.440 that says more about the investigation than it does about Ron. 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:26.880 Take for example, Ron's computer. Detective Stark obtained it. He 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:29.720 did his job, but when he turned it over to 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:35.400 the NYPD's Computer Investigation and Technology Unit or c i TU, well, 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.000 they did not analyze it. Instead, it went through an 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:43.080 incompetent circle. Detective Stark got the computer, gave it to 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.800 c I TU, it sat there, no one examined it, 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:50.320 and Ron got it back. Any other case, this would 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:54.560 be considered lazy, sloppy police work. But before you blame 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:58.160 the NYPD, know that the person who chose to release 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:03.280 the computer was actually Assistant District Attorney Linda Fairstein. If 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.160 you recognize her name, it's probably from the infamous Central 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:11.680 Park jogger case, in which Fairstein helped convict five innocent 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.640 boys of a brutal rape they did not commit. According 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:20.120 to NYPD records, Fairstein released Ron's computer without having it 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.760 analyzed because quote she thought it was not relevant and 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:27.840 the husband needed it for work end quote. I reached 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.960 out to Fairstein. She said she does remember this case. 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:35.600 Clearly she tentatively agreed to an interview, but she flaked out. 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.400 She never followed through, so I have no comment from her. 0:08:42.000 --> 0:08:44.800 If you rule out Ron, two people still stick out 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:49.000 to me as possible suspects. One is the doctor Sneha 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.079 accused of sexually assaulting her at a bar in June 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:55.280 two thousand and one. On September tenth, two thousand one, 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.000 the day she disappeared, Sneha was in court because of 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:03.400 this doctor, because he pressed charges against her. Remember, after 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:07.439 telling the NYPD that this doctor assaulted her, Snayha then 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:12.239 allegedly recanted and proceeded to harass the doctor and his wife. 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:15.800 It's understandable then that the doctor may have been upset 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:20.120 with Snayha angry at her. So should we consider the 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:25.280 doctor a suspect. Well, immediately I saw a red flag. 0:09:25.800 --> 0:09:29.040 Snayha and the doctor lived in the same apartment building 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:32.959 on the same floor. I thought, wow, okay, maybe at 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:36.840 some point on September tenth, Snayha went to the doctor's apartment, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.640 confronted him, and he harmed her. But here's the thing. 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:45.120 By September tenth, Ron and Snayha had already moved to 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:48.079 a different building in a different part of the city. 0:09:48.120 --> 0:09:50.959 By that point, they no longer lived in the same 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.840 building on the same floor as the doctor. In addition, 0:09:55.160 --> 0:09:58.960 neither the NYPD nor Ron considered the doctor a suspect. 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:04.160 The NYP he cleared the doctor. The final person I 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:09.840 considered was Snayhu's younger brother, John, for four key reasons. First, 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:13.640 John lived at eighty eight Greenwich Street, only five minutes 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.920 from Century twenty one, where Snayhaw was last seen alive. 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.880 In fact, when Ron came home the night of nine 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.880 ten to an empty apartment, that's where he thought she 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:29.240 was at John's apartment. Second, John lied multiple times, most 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:33.000 notably to WABC. He made up a story saying he 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.560 spoke to snayha on nine to eleven while she was 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.640 in the towers helping people. Later he admitted that was 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:44.280 a lie. John also said multiple times that Detective Stark 0:10:44.360 --> 0:10:48.720 did not interview him, but I obtained NYPD records proving 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:52.960 that Detective Stark did interview John by phone on September 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:57.600 twenty nine, two thousand and one, so another lie. Third, 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:02.680 when snay Haaw disappeared and John Ron bad terms Ron 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.920 testified in court that day had been fighting fourth. When 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.000 questioned about when he last saw or spoke to Snayhaw, 0:11:10.400 --> 0:11:15.200 John gave multiple conflicting answers. On September twenty ninth, two 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:18.280 thousand and one, he told Detective Stark that he last 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:23.240 spoke to Snayhaw six weeks prior, around August eighteenth. Later, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.760 in court, he testified that he last saw and or 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.839 spoke to Snayha two and a half weeks before nine 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.080 to eleven, around August twenty fifth, and John told me, yes, 0:11:34.160 --> 0:11:37.400 I interviewed him that he last saw Snayha eight or 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.040 nine days before nine to eleven, around September two or third, 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:49.760 August eighteenth, August twenty fifth, September second or third, So yeah, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:54.760 I was suspicious. I am suspicious. John lived only five 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.320 minutes from Century twenty one, where Snayha was last seen alive. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.640 He lied about speaking to Snayha on nine to eleven, 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.240 He lied about not speaking to Detective Stark. He and 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:09.400 Snayha were fighting before she disappeared, and he gave multiple 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:13.080 conflicting answers about when he last saw and or spoke 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:17.679 to Snayha. According to Hugo Kogia's Newsday article, which ran 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.199 on September twenty six, two thousand and one, Snayha emailed 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:25.400 her mom and John right before she disappeared. I don't 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.360 know what she said in the emails or why her 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:33.400 family never mentioned them again after September two thousand and one. Initially, 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.880 John did not respond to multiple interview requests, but on 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.800 my second to last night in New York reporting this story, 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.360 he agreed to meet me the next day an hour 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.440 north of the city at a cafe. We spoke for 0:12:45.520 --> 0:13:14.680 nearly four hours. John didn't allow me to record our conversation, 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.960 but I did take copious notes. Our interview took place 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.600 in public, and it was observed by our assistant producer, Chris, 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.960 sitting across from me in a wingback chair in a 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:29.359 cafe in the midst of COVID. John describes Snayhu's disappearance 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:33.120 and everything that followed as a mind fuck. The last 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:37.800 twenty years have been extremely painful and exhausting for his family. 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.800 He said. He loves snay Haw, he misses her. She 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.760 never got to meet John's son, who was born after 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:48.560 nine to eleven. Snay Haw, he said, was quote the 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:59.720 most sophisticated woman I've ever known, empathetic, approachable, authentic, social, charming, quick, witty, dynamic, confident, 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:05.440 ambitious and very brave, so smart it was intimidating. She 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:10.480 was a progressive feminist who supported the LGBTQ community. When 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.160 I asked if she identified as a member of the 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:18.319 LGBTQ community, he deflected, joked about card carrying, then said 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.920 to his knowledge that no, she didn't. He showed me 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:25.440 photos of Snayha as a child there she was a 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.960 happy kid at Disney World. He also showed me her 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.280 date book from nineteen ninety to ninety one. I asked 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.640 if she kept a journal in two thousand and one. 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.880 He said no. I asked if he still has emails 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.520 from back then, emails from Snayha. Again, he said no. 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.600 During our conversation, John said multiple times that the turning 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:49.920 point in Snayha's life was the alleged sexual assault in 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:54.240 June two thousand and one, the bar incident. NYPD records 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.520 showed that Snayha recanted five days after filing an official complaint. 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:03.120 Not true, John's said. Snayhow was assaulted, he said, by 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.080 a fellow doctor, a colleague at Cabrini Medical Center. Before 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.680 the bar incident, snay Haw was okay He said she 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:15.360 was doing well. She was happy. After she was depressed, 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.240 she started drinking more. John believes that had the bar 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:23.720 incident not occurred, Snayhow would still be alive. It's why 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:28.480 Snayha lost her job, he said, Why Cabrini retaliated against her, 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:31.640 Why she moved to a new apartment near the Trade 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.960 Center right before nine to eleven, Why she died. But 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:40.560 there's a problem with John's story. It's not accurate. See 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:44.440 Cabrini decided not to renew Snayha's contract in May two 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.200 thousand one, one month before the bar incident. In June 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:54.320 two thousand one, John described himself as deeply spiritual and 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.360 said he seeks out simplicity. He loves music and plays 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.880 the piano. He told me that Snayhaw, six years older 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.320 than him, was like a second mother. In the summer 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:08.200 of two thousand, John moved to eighty eight Greenwich Street, 0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.400 near the Trade Center. His apartment had a wrap around 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.200 balcony at the corner of Washington and Rector Quote, a 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:18.640 view to die for a view of the towers. He 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.800 was young and happy and entrepreneur. He felt alive. Snayhow 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.480 used to come over all the time, He said. She 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.720 would tell him about cancer patients she befriended, and she 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.960 John and Ron would dine and drink and talk and live. 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.960 John and Ron were close. They still are. John refers 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.480 to Ron as his brother. In fact, they spoke earlier 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.880 that day before our interview, he said. John told me 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:49.880 that the last time he saw Snayhaw was eight or 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.560 nine days before nine to eleven, September second or third. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.040 He went over to her apartment. She was happy to 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.840 see him, but he could tell she was still struggling. 0:17:00.600 --> 0:17:04.760 That night, Snayhawk, John and John's girlfriend went to dinner 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.280 at Mustang Sally's, he said, near f I t the 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.679 Fashion Institute of Technology. What did they do after dinner? 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:16.200 John said, quote, I don't want to talk about it. 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:20.199 I asked if he ever spoke to Snayha again. He 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:27.120 said no. Today. John is forty five. On nine to eleven, 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.120 he was twenty five at the time. He worked from 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:34.960 home running an advertising and marketing company. He remembers September tenth, 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.760 two thousand and one, as a beautiful day and said 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:42.320 the weather was incredible, but that's not accurate. On nine ten, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:47.119 It's thunderstormed for about six hours when I asked John 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.119 if it rained on nine ten. He said no. Before 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.119 you read too much into this, just remember whatever happened 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.240 to Snayha. John lost his sister. Two skyscrapers near his 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:03.600 apartment apsed, killing nearly three thousand people, and the world 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:08.679 his world turned upside down. John remembers dining on his 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:12.080 terrace the night of nine ten. He barbecued on a 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:16.560 grill outside. He said, I asked twice about nine ten. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.320 The first time, John told me about dinner on his terrace, 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:24.120 about barbecuing, but he didn't mention anyone being with him. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.040 The second time, he told me that his girlfriend was there, 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:31.320 that they barbecued together, and that she left his apartment 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.600 around one am on nine eleven. At that point, he said, 0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:40.040 he went to sleep. The next morning, he awoke to 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:44.480 a boom American Flight eleven hitting the North Tower. At 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.760 the same time, his alarm clock went off and Howard 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:51.840 Stern came on. John heard sirens. He went out onto 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.160 his terrace. He watched as debris and people tumbled out 0:18:56.160 --> 0:18:59.560 of the towers. He went inside, turn on a TV 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.399 and tried to turn on a video camera, but the 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.440 battery was dead. Fifteen minutes later, the second plane flew 0:19:06.600 --> 0:19:11.080 right over him into the South Tower. At nine fifty 0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:15.120 nine am, when the South Tower collapsed, John was outside 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:19.280 on his terrace. He saw quote a volcano coming at me. 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.159 First he was a statue. Then he ran back into 0:19:23.160 --> 0:19:27.280 his apartment. Really, the debris cloud threw him into the apartment. 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.959 He was engulfed in quote, this black smog of nothingness. 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:36.639 The sound was overwhelming, so too was the smoke. He 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.480 coughed and hacked and choked. He crawled into the hallway 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.720 and lay against his front door. A neighbor who saw 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:47.360 him guided him to an elevator and down to the basement, 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.960 which had a gym and communal computers. John got on 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:54.840 a computer and spoke briefly with his mom ONSU. He 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:58.280 said he was okay. Security wanted residence to stay in 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.159 the basement, but John ig north and went back up 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.199 to his apartment. He's not sure if that was before 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:09.440 or after the second tower fell. He thinks In the apartment, 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:14.280 John gathered stuff, including covered business cards. He took a shower, 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.679 went back downstairs, and someone gave him a mask. He 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.639 managed to evacuate Lower Manhattan on a tugboat, which dropped 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:26.080 him off at thirty first Street. That afternoon, he walked 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.840 down Second Avenue to a fireman's bar and had a 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:31.960 few drinks. He knew the area he used to live there, 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:34.639 so he went to his old apartment and met up 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.800 with friends. The whole time he had a really bad 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:41.159 sound in his ear, like a concussion. The rest of 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:44.560 nine to eleven was chaos and confusion. It was surreal. 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.200 John couldn't reach anyone in his family until the next morning. 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.960 On nine twelve, when it became clear that Sneha was 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:55.520 still missing, John joined the search for her. That night, 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:58.840 he lied on w ABC saying that he spoke to 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.800 Snaha the day before while she was in the towers. 0:21:02.600 --> 0:21:05.679 I asked John why he lied. He said he wanted 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:09.359 to get Snayha on TV to help find her. I 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:12.119 asked whose idea it was to make up a story 0:21:12.560 --> 0:21:16.080 his or Ron's, because in two thousand and one, Ron 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:20.240 took responsibility telling twenty twenty quote. I called John on 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.520 the phone and I said, don't mention anything about Monday. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:27.000 Just say she's missing and we're worried, and that should 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.359 be enough to get her on TV. But John said no, 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.800 it was not Ron's idea. It was his idea. About 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:37.320 a week after nine to eleven, John returned to his 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.600 apartment to get stuff. A few weeks after that, he 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.800 moved back into the apartment, but he stayed only three 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:47.720 days then left for good. Living there he said, was 0:21:47.760 --> 0:22:16.440 like watching a graveyard. I asked John about the NYPD. 0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.640 He looked me in the eye and said, quote, they 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.919 never even spoke with me. I asked him about the story. 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:26.320 He told Detective Stark that shortly before nine to eleven, 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:29.119 he walked in on snay haa having sex with his girlfriend. 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.359 He said it was false. I asked why Detective Stark 0:22:33.400 --> 0:22:37.520 would just make it up. He said, no idea. The 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:40.920 thing is, I know John spoke with Detective Stark. I 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.439 have a record proving that he did so. I watched 0:22:44.520 --> 0:22:47.800 him very closely when he lied to me. I watched 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:52.040 his eyes, and then I kept asking questions. One major 0:22:52.200 --> 0:22:55.480 unanswered question is whether or not snay Ha had a 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:59.600 cell phone. Detective Stark thinks that she did, so does John. 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:03.560 He also thinks she had a pager, raising the question 0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.840 if Snayha had a cell phone, if she had a pager, 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:11.520 why Didnity and YPD examine her phone, her pager, her 0:23:11.560 --> 0:23:17.520 call records nine to eleven. Obviously and understandably traumatized John. 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.840 He still has nightmares. He told me that he did 0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:24.640 consider the possibility that someone murdered Snayha, but he thinks 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:29.119 it's unlikely. He also considered the idea that Sneha ran away, 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:35.240 but he dismissed it, saying it was quote asinine. John 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:38.399 is really upset with how the media handled Snayha's story. 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:42.160 He called a prominent New York magazine article about her case, 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:46.359 which ran in two thousand and six, quote butchery. After that, 0:23:46.480 --> 0:23:51.000 he said, the family stopped cooperating with reporters. He's upset 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:54.719 that news coverage focused on Snayha's problems and not at 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:58.520 all on the complex, beautiful woman he knew his sister, 0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:03.320 the human being. Tabloid coverage was especially hurtful. He said 0:24:03.720 --> 0:24:08.159 the fact that Snayha visited lesbian bars was overhyped and sensationalized. 0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:12.000 John told me that he has seen YouTube videos theorizing 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:15.879 about what happened to Snayha. He's unsure though, if his son, 0:24:16.040 --> 0:24:19.160 now a teenager, has seen them. He doesn't know how 0:24:19.200 --> 0:24:22.399 his son would react to sensational coverage of an aunt 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:28.840 he never met. Overall, I found John forthcoming except about 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:33.160 two things. One, the last time he saw Snayha. When 0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.520 I asked what he Snayha and his girlfriend did after 0:24:36.600 --> 0:24:39.280 dinner that night eight or nine days before nine to eleven, 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:42.000 he clammed up. He said he didn't want to talk 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:47.240 about it. And Two, his experience on September tenth, the 0:24:47.359 --> 0:24:51.480 day Snayha disappeared. When I asked twice about nine ten, 0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:55.240 he seemed thrown off. The second time I brought it up, 0:24:55.440 --> 0:24:57.639 he told me that his girlfriend was with him that 0:24:57.760 --> 0:25:02.000 night until about one am on eleven. I think John's 0:25:02.040 --> 0:25:07.160 girlfriend now is ex girlfriend is indispensable. She's the key witness. 0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:13.520 But I was unable to reach her. So where does 0:25:13.560 --> 0:25:16.399 that leave us as we consider foul play, as we 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:20.240 consider whether or not someone snahad knew may have killed her. 0:25:20.800 --> 0:25:22.600 To me, it all goes back to a lack of 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:26.439 a body. Without a body, it's illogical to think Snaha 0:25:26.600 --> 0:25:30.359 was murdered by anyone, either a random crazed killer or 0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:34.560 someone she knew. As for John, I don't think he's 0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:38.720 telling the truth about September tenth. I wonder strongly whether 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:41.679 or not he saw Snaha that night, whether or not 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:45.159 she went to his apartment after century twenty one. But 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.880 even if he did, even if she did, that does 0:25:47.960 --> 0:25:51.680 not mean he killed her. There's zero evidence of foul play. 0:25:52.040 --> 0:25:55.600 And let me point out strongly that even if someone lies, 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:59.600 you don't necessarily know why. There are a million reasons 0:25:59.760 --> 0:26:03.760 why people lie that do not involve murder. Snay Haw's 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:07.880 family understandably wants people to remember her in a positive light, 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:12.520 not in a dark fog of mental illness, substance abuse, affairs, 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:16.679 and conspiracies. They want people to remember snay Haw the 0:26:16.720 --> 0:26:19.960 hero who rushed into burning towers on nine to eleven. 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:25.080 Her family loves her. She loved them, especially her mom 0:26:25.280 --> 0:26:29.040 a zoo, and that's why they do not believe one 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:32.840 of the other pervasive theories about snayhouse disappearance that she 0:26:33.080 --> 0:26:36.080 used nine to eleven as cover to run away to 0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:39.520 start a new life. She wouldn't do that to them. 0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:41.600