1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: A crazed killer prowling the streets of Manhattan the night 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:08,680 Speaker 1: before nine to eleven. It's evocative and absurd. I mean, sure, 3 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: it's possible, but it's extremely unlikely, so unlikely, I'm not 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: going to waste your time seriously considering it. In two 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: thousand and one, there was one murder in the NYPD's 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: first precinct, a single, non nine to eleven murder in 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: Lower Manhattan. So the idea of a random killer murdering 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: Sneha on September tenth, two thousand and one is ludicrous. 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: You might say, well, what about Sneha's quote lifestyle? If 10 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: she met random people at bars, at lesbian bars? What 11 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: about that? First off, Snaho was probably safer at lesbian 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: bars than at hetero bars packed with men. And the 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: idea of what a lesbian killer pulling off the perfect 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: crime on the eve of nine to eleven, it's laughable. 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: Here's Mark Boguten, Ron Liebermann's attorney, could be a victim 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,279 Speaker 1: of random violence and crazy Hillo running through or then 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: had in that night. Okay, and so let's sake to start, 18 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 1: He testified at the hearing. He said, it's very rare 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: that somebody is murdered in that fashion without a body 20 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,839 Speaker 1: ever turning up, And that's really what this spoils down 21 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: to nobody. Remember we're talking about Manhattan, an island packed 22 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: with one point six million people. A body almost certainly 23 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: would have been found on land or in a river. 24 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 1: So when considering explanations forced snayhouse disappearance, I think we 25 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: can safely cross off random act of violence. But what 26 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: about a non random act of violence? What if Snayhau 27 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: was killed by someone she knew, maybe even accidentally during 28 00:01:51,560 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: a heated argument. From My Heart Radio, This is Missing 29 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: on nine to eleven, the story of one woman who 30 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: vanished on the eve of history and my quest to 31 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: find her. I'm your host, John Waalzac. The NYPD, private investigators, 32 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: and attorneys all focused on the idea of random violence. 33 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: You see it repeatedly in court records. Quote a random 34 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 1: act of foul play, a random act of violence, a 35 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: random act of New York City street violence that they 36 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: didn't seriously consider people snaeha New as possible suspects strikes 37 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: me as disingenuous. Most murdered women are killed by men 38 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: they know, and most people, especially cops, private investigators, and 39 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: attorneys know that. What makes you certain that it wasn't 40 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 1: maybe somebody she knew, like, but it wouldn't have been 41 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: somebody she knew, because then that's something you can investigate. 42 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: Anybody have a grudge. Was there a beef with their disagreement? 43 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: Was she involved in any type of vendetta? He give 44 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: was some crazy neighbor. Maybe it's a crazy neighbor upstairs 45 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: that she doesn't do it, but he thought or she thought, 46 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: you know, she was sending radio waves into his brain. 47 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: And then but no, if it was anybody that she 48 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: knew of in her circle, or that's something you could investigate, 49 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: there'd be some sign of them. And they spoke to 50 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: spoke to everybody. Do you think that the NYPD really 51 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: fully investigated this though, because when I looked at Detective 52 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: Stark's words and court, it seemed very much like from 53 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: the get go that he just assumed that Snail was 54 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: a trade center victim as far as they can see 55 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: from what his testimony was in the police reports that 56 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: I did. Yeah, they did all the basic stuff, and 57 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: they did everything was required. They said, you do the 58 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: financial records. Obviously did that public record financial records, and 59 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: they spoke to everybody who knew her work and family friends. 60 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: That's what else do you have? Work, family friends. They 61 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: did all that, and if there had been some and 62 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: they asked those people, obviously those those basic questions you 63 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: just brought up. Did anybody have a grudge against her? 64 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: She involved in any type of disputes? And again, it 65 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: seriously possible to some dispute that nobody knew about. So 66 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: I said, maybe it was a crazy neighbor in the building, 67 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, that's like you I would say, 68 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: that's stress clutching at straws. I mean, it's highly unlikely 69 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: they there's no evidence they pursued that wasn't actually had 70 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: a dispute, grudge, disagreement. I'm sure you can't rule at 71 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: one hundercent craz killer. You can't rule out one hundercent. 72 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: Maybe there was some grudge, and there were grudges snayhad 73 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,679 Speaker 1: did have enemies, people who were not investigated as thoroughly 74 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: as they would have been if nine to eleven had 75 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: not occurred. What makes you so sure that it could 76 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: not have been foul play at the hands of somebody 77 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 1: that she knew. I'm sure that it's not foul play, 78 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: as I am that it's not aliens, because what the 79 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: detective said, bodies show up, because there has to be 80 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: some evidence. They did speak to everybody. And you say 81 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 1: somebody she knew, somebody she knew, it's even even more 82 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: likely because that would have been a trace. It would 83 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: have been Yeah, she had a beef with this person, 84 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: had a dispute. Oh she upset that person or that person, 85 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: as they said, maybe it was a neighbor in the building, 86 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: but she she was playing the radio too loud and 87 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: this was a psycho and but that, but she had 88 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: she had a dispute at the time, at least with 89 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: two people she knew, doctors. She did with the man 90 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: who she accused of assaulting her, that was and that 91 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,240 Speaker 1: was a court proceeding, and he brought charges against My 92 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: understanding killer. My understanding is he lived in the same 93 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: building and down the killer. Come on, now, you getting no, no, no, 94 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 1: even more I mean than the people in court were. No. 95 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: I'm not saying, but I'm saying, you know, if you're 96 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: running through all the things wandering the streets in Manhattan, 97 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: or you know, or somebody she's involved in a court 98 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 1: dispute with, I'm sure the police spoke to him. I'm 99 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: sure obviously the primary person to speak to. I'm sure 100 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: they spoke to him. I asked retired NYPD detective Richard 101 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: Stark about the possibility of murder. You don't believe foul 102 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: play is even possible, though, No, I don't seen no 103 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: reason in it. I don't see. Well, in the beginning, 104 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: maybe we just looked at Ron saying, because you know, 105 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: it s the day of fighting. Yeah, we all auctions 106 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 1: are opened. That he possibly did something to us. That 107 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: was that was on the table too in the beginning. 108 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: In the beginning, me and Ron meant about thirty times, 109 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: so we were always meeting. He's always coming over to precinct, 110 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: and well he's got to I just didn't see it 111 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: him doing it, That's all I know. I know the 112 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: husband is always suspect number one. But no one I 113 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: interviewed seriously thinks that Ron killed Snayha. Everyone described him 114 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: as a gentle soul, someone stricken with grief who went 115 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: to great lengths to find her. Do I think Ron 116 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: is telling the truth about everything? No? But do I 117 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: think he killed Sneha? No? I don't. However, I do 118 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: think the way investigators handled Ron is important because there 119 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: are signs they didn't seriously investigate him, and I think 120 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: that says more about the investigation than it does about Ron. 121 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: Take for example, Ron's computer. Detective Stark obtained it. He 122 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: did his job, but when he turned it over to 123 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: the NYPD's Computer Investigation and Technology Unit or c i TU, well, 124 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: they did not analyze it. Instead, it went through an 125 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,080 Speaker 1: incompetent circle. Detective Stark got the computer, gave it to 126 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: c I TU, it sat there, no one examined it, 127 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 1: and Ron got it back. Any other case, this would 128 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: be considered lazy, sloppy police work. But before you blame 129 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: the NYPD, know that the person who chose to release 130 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: the computer was actually Assistant District Attorney Linda Fairstein. If 131 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: you recognize her name, it's probably from the infamous Central 132 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: Park jogger case, in which Fairstein helped convict five innocent 133 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: boys of a brutal rape they did not commit. According 134 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: to NYPD records, Fairstein released Ron's computer without having it 135 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: analyzed because quote she thought it was not relevant and 136 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: the husband needed it for work end quote. I reached 137 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: out to Fairstein. She said she does remember this case. 138 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: Clearly she tentatively agreed to an interview, but she flaked out. 139 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: She never followed through, so I have no comment from her. 140 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: If you rule out Ron, two people still stick out 141 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: to me as possible suspects. One is the doctor Sneha 142 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 1: accused of sexually assaulting her at a bar in June 143 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: two thousand and one. On September tenth, two thousand one, 144 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: the day she disappeared, Sneha was in court because of 145 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: this doctor, because he pressed charges against her. Remember, after 146 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 1: telling the NYPD that this doctor assaulted her, Snayha then 147 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:12,239 Speaker 1: allegedly recanted and proceeded to harass the doctor and his wife. 148 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: It's understandable then that the doctor may have been upset 149 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: with Snayha angry at her. So should we consider the 150 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: doctor a suspect. Well, immediately I saw a red flag. 151 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: Snayha and the doctor lived in the same apartment building 152 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: on the same floor. I thought, wow, okay, maybe at 153 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: some point on September tenth, Snayha went to the doctor's apartment, 154 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: confronted him, and he harmed her. But here's the thing. 155 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 1: By September tenth, Ron and Snayha had already moved to 156 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,079 Speaker 1: a different building in a different part of the city. 157 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,959 Speaker 1: By that point, they no longer lived in the same 158 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: building on the same floor as the doctor. In addition, 159 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: neither the NYPD nor Ron considered the doctor a suspect. 160 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: The NYP he cleared the doctor. The final person I 161 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:09,840 Speaker 1: considered was Snayhu's younger brother, John, for four key reasons. First, 162 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: John lived at eighty eight Greenwich Street, only five minutes 163 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: from Century twenty one, where Snayhaw was last seen alive. 164 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: In fact, when Ron came home the night of nine 165 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: ten to an empty apartment, that's where he thought she 166 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 1: was at John's apartment. Second, John lied multiple times, most 167 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: notably to WABC. He made up a story saying he 168 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 1: spoke to snayha on nine to eleven while she was 169 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: in the towers helping people. Later he admitted that was 170 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: a lie. John also said multiple times that Detective Stark 171 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: did not interview him, but I obtained NYPD records proving 172 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: that Detective Stark did interview John by phone on September 173 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: twenty nine, two thousand and one, so another lie. Third, 174 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: when snay Haaw disappeared and John Ron bad terms Ron 175 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: testified in court that day had been fighting fourth. When 176 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: questioned about when he last saw or spoke to Snayhaw, 177 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: John gave multiple conflicting answers. On September twenty ninth, two 178 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 1: thousand and one, he told Detective Stark that he last 179 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 1: spoke to Snayhaw six weeks prior, around August eighteenth. Later, 180 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: in court, he testified that he last saw and or 181 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: spoke to Snayha two and a half weeks before nine 182 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: to eleven, around August twenty fifth, and John told me, yes, 183 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: I interviewed him that he last saw Snayha eight or 184 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 1: nine days before nine to eleven, around September two or third, 185 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: August eighteenth, August twenty fifth, September second or third, So yeah, 186 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: I was suspicious. I am suspicious. John lived only five 187 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: minutes from Century twenty one, where Snayha was last seen alive. 188 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: He lied about speaking to Snayha on nine to eleven, 189 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: He lied about not speaking to Detective Stark. He and 190 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: Snayha were fighting before she disappeared, and he gave multiple 191 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: conflicting answers about when he last saw and or spoke 192 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,679 Speaker 1: to Snayha. According to Hugo Kogia's Newsday article, which ran 193 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:21,199 Speaker 1: on September twenty six, two thousand and one, Snayha emailed 194 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: her mom and John right before she disappeared. I don't 195 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,360 Speaker 1: know what she said in the emails or why her 196 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: family never mentioned them again after September two thousand and one. Initially, 197 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: John did not respond to multiple interview requests, but on 198 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: my second to last night in New York reporting this story, 199 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: he agreed to meet me the next day an hour 200 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 1: north of the city at a cafe. We spoke for 201 00:12:45,520 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: nearly four hours. John didn't allow me to record our conversation, 202 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: but I did take copious notes. Our interview took place 203 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: in public, and it was observed by our assistant producer, Chris, 204 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: sitting across from me in a wingback chair in a 205 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,359 Speaker 1: cafe in the midst of COVID. John describes Snayhu's disappearance 206 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: and everything that followed as a mind fuck. The last 207 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: twenty years have been extremely painful and exhausting for his family. 208 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: He said. He loves snay Haw, he misses her. She 209 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: never got to meet John's son, who was born after 210 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: nine to eleven. Snay Haw, he said, was quote the 211 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: most sophisticated woman I've ever known, empathetic, approachable, authentic, social, charming, quick, witty, dynamic, confident, 212 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: ambitious and very brave, so smart it was intimidating. She 213 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: was a progressive feminist who supported the LGBTQ community. When 214 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: I asked if she identified as a member of the 215 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: LGBTQ community, he deflected, joked about card carrying, then said 216 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: to his knowledge that no, she didn't. He showed me 217 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: photos of Snayha as a child there she was a 218 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: happy kid at Disney World. He also showed me her 219 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: date book from nineteen ninety to ninety one. I asked 220 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: if she kept a journal in two thousand and one. 221 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: He said no. I asked if he still has emails 222 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 1: from back then, emails from Snayha. Again, he said no. 223 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: During our conversation, John said multiple times that the turning 224 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: point in Snayha's life was the alleged sexual assault in 225 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: June two thousand and one, the bar incident. NYPD records 226 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: showed that Snayha recanted five days after filing an official complaint. 227 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: Not true, John's said. Snayhow was assaulted, he said, by 228 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: a fellow doctor, a colleague at Cabrini Medical Center. Before 229 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: the bar incident, snay Haw was okay He said she 230 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: was doing well. She was happy. After she was depressed, 231 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: she started drinking more. John believes that had the bar 232 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: incident not occurred, Snayhow would still be alive. It's why 233 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: Snayha lost her job, he said, Why Cabrini retaliated against her, 234 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: Why she moved to a new apartment near the Trade 235 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: Center right before nine to eleven, Why she died. But 236 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: there's a problem with John's story. It's not accurate. See 237 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: Cabrini decided not to renew Snayha's contract in May two 238 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: thousand one, one month before the bar incident. In June 239 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: two thousand one, John described himself as deeply spiritual and 240 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: said he seeks out simplicity. He loves music and plays 241 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: the piano. He told me that Snayhaw, six years older 242 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: than him, was like a second mother. In the summer 243 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,200 Speaker 1: of two thousand, John moved to eighty eight Greenwich Street, 244 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: near the Trade Center. His apartment had a wrap around 245 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: balcony at the corner of Washington and Rector Quote, a 246 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: view to die for a view of the towers. He 247 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: was young and happy and entrepreneur. He felt alive. Snayhow 248 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: used to come over all the time, He said. She 249 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: would tell him about cancer patients she befriended, and she 250 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: John and Ron would dine and drink and talk and live. 251 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: John and Ron were close. They still are. John refers 252 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 1: to Ron as his brother. In fact, they spoke earlier 253 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: that day before our interview, he said. John told me 254 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 1: that the last time he saw Snayhaw was eight or 255 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: nine days before nine to eleven, September second or third. 256 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: He went over to her apartment. She was happy to 257 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: see him, but he could tell she was still struggling. 258 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: That night, Snayhawk, John and John's girlfriend went to dinner 259 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: at Mustang Sally's, he said, near f I t the 260 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:12,679 Speaker 1: Fashion Institute of Technology. What did they do after dinner? 261 00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: John said, quote, I don't want to talk about it. 262 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,199 Speaker 1: I asked if he ever spoke to Snayha again. He 263 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:27,120 Speaker 1: said no. Today. John is forty five. On nine to eleven, 264 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: he was twenty five at the time. He worked from 265 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: home running an advertising and marketing company. He remembers September tenth, 266 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, as a beautiful day and said 267 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: the weather was incredible, but that's not accurate. On nine ten, 268 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: It's thunderstormed for about six hours when I asked John 269 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: if it rained on nine ten. He said no. Before 270 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 1: you read too much into this, just remember whatever happened 271 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: to Snayha. John lost his sister. Two skyscrapers near his 272 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: apartment apsed, killing nearly three thousand people, and the world 273 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: his world turned upside down. John remembers dining on his 274 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: terrace the night of nine ten. He barbecued on a 275 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: grill outside. He said, I asked twice about nine ten. 276 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: The first time, John told me about dinner on his terrace, 277 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: about barbecuing, but he didn't mention anyone being with him. 278 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: The second time, he told me that his girlfriend was there, 279 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: that they barbecued together, and that she left his apartment 280 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: around one am on nine eleven. At that point, he said, 281 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: he went to sleep. The next morning, he awoke to 282 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: a boom American Flight eleven hitting the North Tower. At 283 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: the same time, his alarm clock went off and Howard 284 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: Stern came on. John heard sirens. He went out onto 285 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: his terrace. He watched as debris and people tumbled out 286 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 1: of the towers. He went inside, turn on a TV 287 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: and tried to turn on a video camera, but the 288 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: battery was dead. Fifteen minutes later, the second plane flew 289 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: right over him into the South Tower. At nine fifty 290 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,120 Speaker 1: nine am, when the South Tower collapsed, John was outside 291 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: on his terrace. He saw quote a volcano coming at me. 292 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: First he was a statue. Then he ran back into 293 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: his apartment. Really, the debris cloud threw him into the apartment. 294 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,959 Speaker 1: He was engulfed in quote, this black smog of nothingness. 295 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,639 Speaker 1: The sound was overwhelming, so too was the smoke. He 296 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: coughed and hacked and choked. He crawled into the hallway 297 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: and lay against his front door. A neighbor who saw 298 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,360 Speaker 1: him guided him to an elevator and down to the basement, 299 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: which had a gym and communal computers. John got on 300 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: a computer and spoke briefly with his mom ONSU. He 301 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: said he was okay. Security wanted residence to stay in 302 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: the basement, but John ig north and went back up 303 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: to his apartment. He's not sure if that was before 304 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:09,440 Speaker 1: or after the second tower fell. He thinks In the apartment, 305 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: John gathered stuff, including covered business cards. He took a shower, 306 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: went back downstairs, and someone gave him a mask. He 307 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: managed to evacuate Lower Manhattan on a tugboat, which dropped 308 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: him off at thirty first Street. That afternoon, he walked 309 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: down Second Avenue to a fireman's bar and had a 310 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: few drinks. He knew the area he used to live there, 311 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: so he went to his old apartment and met up 312 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: with friends. The whole time he had a really bad 313 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: sound in his ear, like a concussion. The rest of 314 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: nine to eleven was chaos and confusion. It was surreal. 315 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 1: John couldn't reach anyone in his family until the next morning. 316 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: On nine twelve, when it became clear that Sneha was 317 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: still missing, John joined the search for her. That night, 318 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: he lied on w ABC saying that he spoke to 319 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: Snaha the day before while she was in the towers. 320 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: I asked John why he lied. He said he wanted 321 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 1: to get Snayha on TV to help find her. I 322 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 1: asked whose idea it was to make up a story 323 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: his or Ron's, because in two thousand and one, Ron 324 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: took responsibility telling twenty twenty quote. I called John on 325 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: the phone and I said, don't mention anything about Monday. 326 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: Just say she's missing and we're worried, and that should 327 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: be enough to get her on TV. But John said no, 328 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 1: it was not Ron's idea. It was his idea. About 329 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: a week after nine to eleven, John returned to his 330 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: apartment to get stuff. A few weeks after that, he 331 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: moved back into the apartment, but he stayed only three 332 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: days then left for good. Living there he said, was 333 00:21:47,760 --> 00:22:16,440 Speaker 1: like watching a graveyard. I asked John about the NYPD. 334 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: He looked me in the eye and said, quote, they 335 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,919 Speaker 1: never even spoke with me. I asked him about the story. 336 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: He told Detective Stark that shortly before nine to eleven, 337 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: he walked in on snay haa having sex with his girlfriend. 338 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 1: He said it was false. I asked why Detective Stark 339 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: would just make it up. He said, no idea. The 340 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 1: thing is, I know John spoke with Detective Stark. I 341 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,439 Speaker 1: have a record proving that he did so. I watched 342 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: him very closely when he lied to me. I watched 343 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: his eyes, and then I kept asking questions. One major 344 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: unanswered question is whether or not snay Ha had a 345 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: cell phone. Detective Stark thinks that she did, so does John. 346 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 1: He also thinks she had a pager, raising the question 347 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: if Snayha had a cell phone, if she had a pager, 348 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: why Didnity and YPD examine her phone, her pager, her 349 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: call records nine to eleven. Obviously and understandably traumatized John. 350 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: He still has nightmares. He told me that he did 351 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: consider the possibility that someone murdered Snayha, but he thinks 352 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: it's unlikely. He also considered the idea that Sneha ran away, 353 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: but he dismissed it, saying it was quote asinine. John 354 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: is really upset with how the media handled Snayha's story. 355 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: He called a prominent New York magazine article about her case, 356 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: which ran in two thousand and six, quote butchery. After that, 357 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: he said, the family stopped cooperating with reporters. He's upset 358 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,719 Speaker 1: that news coverage focused on Snayha's problems and not at 359 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: all on the complex, beautiful woman he knew his sister, 360 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: the human being. Tabloid coverage was especially hurtful. He said 361 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: the fact that Snayha visited lesbian bars was overhyped and sensationalized. 362 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: John told me that he has seen YouTube videos theorizing 363 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,879 Speaker 1: about what happened to Snayha. He's unsure though, if his son, 364 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: now a teenager, has seen them. He doesn't know how 365 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: his son would react to sensational coverage of an aunt 366 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: he never met. Overall, I found John forthcoming except about 367 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: two things. One, the last time he saw Snayha. When 368 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: I asked what he Snayha and his girlfriend did after 369 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: dinner that night eight or nine days before nine to eleven, 370 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: he clammed up. He said he didn't want to talk 371 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: about it. And Two, his experience on September tenth, the 372 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: day Snayha disappeared. When I asked twice about nine ten, 373 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: he seemed thrown off. The second time I brought it up, 374 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 1: he told me that his girlfriend was with him that 375 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: night until about one am on eleven. I think John's 376 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: girlfriend now is ex girlfriend is indispensable. She's the key witness. 377 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: But I was unable to reach her. So where does 378 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: that leave us as we consider foul play, as we 379 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: consider whether or not someone snahad knew may have killed her. 380 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 1: To me, it all goes back to a lack of 381 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 1: a body. Without a body, it's illogical to think Snaha 382 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,359 Speaker 1: was murdered by anyone, either a random crazed killer or 383 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: someone she knew. As for John, I don't think he's 384 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: telling the truth about September tenth. I wonder strongly whether 385 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: or not he saw Snaha that night, whether or not 386 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: she went to his apartment after century twenty one. But 387 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,880 Speaker 1: even if he did, even if she did, that does 388 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: not mean he killed her. There's zero evidence of foul play. 389 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: And let me point out strongly that even if someone lies, 390 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: you don't necessarily know why. There are a million reasons 391 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: why people lie that do not involve murder. Snay Haw's 392 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 1: family understandably wants people to remember her in a positive light, 393 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: not in a dark fog of mental illness, substance abuse, affairs, 394 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: and conspiracies. They want people to remember snay Haw the 395 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 1: hero who rushed into burning towers on nine to eleven. 396 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: Her family loves her. She loved them, especially her mom 397 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: a zoo, and that's why they do not believe one 398 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: of the other pervasive theories about snayhouse disappearance that she 399 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 1: used nine to eleven as cover to run away to 400 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: start a new life. She wouldn't do that to them. 401 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 1: It could not have been snay Ha who mailed a 402 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: postcard of the burning towers with the message, everyone who 403 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: knew me before nine to eleven believes I'm dead. Next 404 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 1: time on missing on nine to eleven, How does somebody 405 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,359 Speaker 1: just get a new passport? Noid that quick and just disappear, 406 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: but she planned it. Homework this week. One, I'd like 407 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: to speak to John's ex girlfriend. Two I'd like to 408 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: speak to Snayhaw's friend Tony. Three did you live at 409 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: eighty eight Greenwich Street on nine eleven? Four? Did you 410 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 1: know Snayha in Italy in the nineties? Do you have 411 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: any of her paintings? If so, you can reach us 412 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: by phone at one eight three three new tips. That's 413 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 1: one eight three three six three nine eight four seven 414 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: seven Again one eight three three six three nine eight 415 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: four seven seven, or you can reach us via email 416 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: at tips at iHeartMedia dot com. That's tips tips at 417 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: iHeartMedia dot com. Ben Bowen is our executive producer, Paul 418 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: Decan is our supervising producer, Chris Brown is our assistant producer, 419 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 1: Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer. Sam T. Garden is 420 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: our research assistant, and I'm your host and executive producer 421 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: John Walzack. Cover art by Pam Peacock. Special thanks to 422 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,400 Speaker 1: Tamika Campbell at iHeart and to Christoph Zappri in New Orleans. 423 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: Also thank you to Mark bogutin, Detective Richard Stark, John 424 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: Philip and ASoP Rock. Original theme music by ASoP Rock. 425 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: Check out asop's website at ASoP rock dot com. You 426 00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: can find me on Twitter at at john wallzac j 427 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: O n w A l c z a K. If 428 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,639 Speaker 1: you like this show, check out our first season, Missing 429 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: in Alaska, about the nineteen seventy two disappearance of two congressmen. 430 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,359 Speaker 1: Missing on nine to eleven is a co production of 431 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and Greenfork Media