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Speaker 1: Ah beaut force. If it doesn't work, you're just not

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Speaker 1: using enough. You're listening to software radio, special operations, military

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Speaker 1: news and straight talk with the guys and the community.

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Speaker 1: So prep dot com on time, on target. And you

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Speaker 1: maybe noticed the acoustics are slightly different because we're in

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Speaker 1: a new studio which I actually think was gonna sound

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Speaker 1: a lot better. Yeah, I mean this place is it's

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Speaker 1: kind of ramshackle right now because I'm just going to him,

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Speaker 1: but this place is bigger. I think it's it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be nice. Yeah, I like so yesterday, I will be honest,

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Speaker 1: you were not here, but uh, Carrill and myself who's

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Speaker 1: like our tech guy, mainly him because he knows what

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Speaker 1: the funk he's doing, set this whole thing up. We

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Speaker 1: still have a ways to go. I mean all of

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Speaker 1: our artwork and stuff is not up. Um, but not

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Speaker 1: bad for one day of getting everything out of our

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Speaker 1: space and getting it over to that at all. It's

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Speaker 1: good start is it's a bigger office. We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: able to do a lot more here. We've got a

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Speaker 1: nice view up on the here. Yeah there's there's a

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Speaker 1: balcony yeah, which is cool. Um. Yeah, I'm looking forward

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Speaker 1: to just doing more shows here um in the future,

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Speaker 1: and uh, I don't know, it's just cool. And actually

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Speaker 1: this this means I've officially been full time here for

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Speaker 1: a year because we had that space for one year.

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Speaker 1: We got that in May. Yes it does, and I'm

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Speaker 1: enjoying it. Man, I don't I don't miss having, like

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Speaker 1: you know, just the daily Brian. This is a lot

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Speaker 1: more m freedom to it, for sure. Oh so before

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Speaker 1: we get into any actual news, I if you don't mind,

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Speaker 1: I want to be a little self indulgent and tell

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Speaker 1: you about the most ridiculous dream I had the night

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Speaker 1: of the Pauli shar Shari interview. And it it sort

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Speaker 1: of does in what are you guys naked threesome? Me?

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Speaker 1: You No, definitely not. That would be no, nothing, nothing. Gay. Um,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what my dream was, so I swear

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Speaker 1: to you it ties in. When I first tell you

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Speaker 1: this dream, you're gonna be like what you talking about.

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Speaker 1: So I had a dream that I went to go

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Speaker 1: see a Puddle of Mud concert, which I saw them recently.

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Speaker 1: They were great if people follow them. The funny thing

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Speaker 1: is like West Scantlin lead singer has been in trouble

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Speaker 1: with the law and with drugs and shipped for years.

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Speaker 1: Seems to be clean and doing great performances. Um, so

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Speaker 1: I've been listening to them a lot. I guess they were.

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Speaker 1: They were on my mind seeing them again, had a

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Speaker 1: great time. And then the next day. This must have

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Speaker 1: been in the distant future because in my dream you

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Speaker 1: could go see the same exact concert again by the

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Speaker 1: same performers, but it wasn't a hologram. It was almost

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Speaker 1: like they were like terminators. They were able to perform

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Speaker 1: the same show, but they were not actual people. I

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Speaker 1: saw the concert with the actual people the night before,

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Speaker 1: but they would react to what you do like automatons. Yes,

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Speaker 1: so I was chanting something in the crowd and they'd respond,

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Speaker 1: But everything else about the show is the exact same thing.

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Speaker 1: And then as the show wrapped up, I wanted to

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Speaker 1: go up to them because I was closer for the second,

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Speaker 1: you know, performance, and I wanted to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you guys are great, had a great show. But then

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Speaker 1: I started thinking in my head, I'm like, what's the point, Like,

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Speaker 1: they'll respond, but I'm not talking to actual people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're They're not gonna have any feeling of the fact

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Speaker 1: that I enjoyed their show. They're just robots, and then

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Speaker 1: I woke up. So this is and this is what

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Speaker 1: happens when you talk to Paul Sharat Shari about artificial

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Speaker 1: intelligence and um the weapons of the future, uh and

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Speaker 1: you know, autonomous weapons. And I told my friend Sammy's

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Speaker 1: who was in the dream with me, and he's like, I,

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Speaker 1: I can't believe you're not on drugs, which I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I don't even really drink or anything. For those you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you've seen, um the there's this like pop star

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Speaker 1: in Japan and it's literally a hologram. Well I've heard

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Speaker 1: that they had the Hollo Graham, Michael Jackson, the hologram Tupac. Uh.

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Speaker 1: There they brought Dio, like Ronnie James Dio on tour

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Speaker 1: as a hologram. So fucking crazy. So it is, and

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Speaker 1: it is weird because I've read articles from rock websites

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Speaker 1: and stuff where they're like, is the future of live

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Speaker 1: performance that like, you know, you could watch Elvis Presley

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Speaker 1: in your living room or something to give a performance.

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Speaker 1: And I really hope it doesn't stop people from like

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Speaker 1: going out and enjoying life. All of this stuff is

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Speaker 1: you can keep people. You keep these people alive, not

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Speaker 1: just alive, but keep them young forever. Yeah, Like you know,

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Speaker 1: we've had that conversation before about Kiss, that the intention

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Speaker 1: is to keep Kiss going, like new people come in,

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Speaker 1: but that you keep the band going with like holograms

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Speaker 1: and robotics and stuff. You could just you know, I

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Speaker 1: just have the same people. Yeah, they Yeah, they at

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Speaker 1: least want to have new Um. I like new people

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Speaker 1: wearing the makeup so you would see an actual live performance.

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Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. I think that's what. I

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Speaker 1: like that idea better. You know, it's like you're just

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Speaker 1: continuing the legacy really, yeah, you know, bringing new talent,

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Speaker 1: have them write new songs. Yeah, but I don't like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I hope that this never becomes a

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Speaker 1: point where we've stifled live performing and things like that

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Speaker 1: and stuff that people enjoy. My bigger concern would be

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Speaker 1: that it ends up like the movies are now or

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Speaker 1: like everything is a reboot or a remake or a sequel.

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Speaker 1: It's like there's nothing new, there's nothing original, And that's

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Speaker 1: what would happen with music, right because you can just

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Speaker 1: go see Frank Sinatra sing the same fifteen songs into infinity, right,

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Speaker 1: So there's no reason to have new performers, new music,

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Speaker 1: new creativity, and and as I said, at that point,

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Speaker 1: there might not even be a reason to leave your

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Speaker 1: house because you could have a virtual reality Frank Sinatra performance.

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Speaker 1: You could put on Corilla, who was just you were

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Speaker 1: talking about at that Facebook UM strategy meeting or whatever.

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Speaker 1: They just put out a new virtual reality UM system

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Speaker 1: of glasses that are like two hundred dollars. They're like

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Speaker 1: state of the arts. Are they trying that Google glass

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Speaker 1: thing again? I think similar Corrill bought it. I ran

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Speaker 1: into a couple of people in New York City who

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Speaker 1: had that Google glass. They're testing it out before Google

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Speaker 1: just shut the whole thing down. Yeah, this is virtual

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Speaker 1: reality UM, which I think might because Google Glass. I

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Speaker 1: think it was almost like you can read your emails, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's like a head's up display and I didn't know

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Speaker 1: they shut it down. Yeah, they shut that whole thing down.

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Speaker 1: And it was like also like as you were talking,

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Speaker 1: like if you know, I say, hey, Ian, where are

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Speaker 1: you from? And you say I'm from Long Island, Like

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Speaker 1: your thing could start bringing up stuff about Long Island immediately. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't I feel like we're ready to connect it

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Speaker 1: as we are. Yeah, I don't need fucking glasses like

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Speaker 1: telling me you know we're we're you know, Twitter is

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Speaker 1: angry because some high school girl wore a Chinese stress,

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Speaker 1: Like I really do I really need that in my life,

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Speaker 1: you know, seven it's already pretty bad as it is.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I just I like the fact that we

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Speaker 1: go out, we congregate, and even that has become less

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Speaker 1: because everything is now Instagram and um you even see

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Speaker 1: movie theater shutting down. Since we were talking about movies before,

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Speaker 1: I think that they've suffered because of Netflix. Movies of

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Speaker 1: definitely suffered, and cable television has suffered. Cable television had

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Speaker 1: to come and fuck them. Hollywood kind of had to

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Speaker 1: come into yeah, you know, and they're trying. I think

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Speaker 1: maybe they've gotten a little bit better on some things,

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Speaker 1: but really they're just relying on the legacies, you know,

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Speaker 1: like you know, superheroes and stuff like that. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't even care about Hollywood making money. I just think

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Speaker 1: it's a shame that people don't making making I mean

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Speaker 1: making good movies. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Well, my friend Steve

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Speaker 1: now has like this pass where you could go to

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Speaker 1: as many movies as you want for nine dollars a month. Really, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that's actually worth it. Yeah, And I think that

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Speaker 1: they're doing that now because West people are going to theaters.

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Speaker 1: But it's worth it if they're putting out good movies,

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Speaker 1: as you said. And um, yeah, I mean I think

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Speaker 1: it's like less often than people go out with friends

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Speaker 1: to a restaurant go see a movie. Now it's just

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Speaker 1: like get take out. You don't even have to talk

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Speaker 1: to a person. You could go on whatever, grub Hub

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Speaker 1: or one of those things get you know, get food

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Speaker 1: delivered to your house. Well, I've I've argued, you know,

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Speaker 1: on this podcast. As two. I think that there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a future trend of like unplugging, Like that's going

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Speaker 1: to be the hip trendy thing to do is to

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Speaker 1: not have a smartphone, to instead have like an old

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Speaker 1: school flip phone, you know, or something that just has

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Speaker 1: you make phone calls or people, um doing that more

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Speaker 1: like face to face interaction, Like just unplugging from all

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Speaker 1: the ship Like that'll be the cool avant garde thing

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Speaker 1: to do. Is to not be you know, sucked into

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Speaker 1: all that online bullshit. I have friends who do that

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Speaker 1: I would do it if you know our at it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean our business is contingent on you know, the Internet,

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Speaker 1: And I mean it's a double edged sword. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's uh, it's a great forum for sharing information. I see,

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Speaker 1: um stuff that my friends right or um they share

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Speaker 1: news articles that are important to me or that that

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Speaker 1: you know, we're worth reading. And so it's very helpful

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Speaker 1: in that regard that, like you're the diffusion of information

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Speaker 1: and how you learn. But again, and it's a double

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Speaker 1: edged sword. With that comes all of the superficiality, the outrage.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if I wake wake up in the morning

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Speaker 1: any given day, open up my phone and go on

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Speaker 1: to like Facebook or something like that, and you start

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Speaker 1: scrolling down your feed because we all have the feed

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Speaker 1: now right, I do that for like five minutes, and

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Speaker 1: it's fucking exhausting. It's just one thing after the next,

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Speaker 1: people bitching and whining about this or that, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's like I can't be outraged about everything. No, I know,

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Speaker 1: I don't like emotionally, I don't have the energy to

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Speaker 1: get angry. And like sometimes my wife gets pissed at

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Speaker 1: me because she's like, Jack, why aren't you more upset

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Speaker 1: about this, it will be something that's important to her. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, like she was like, I didn't seem that

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Speaker 1: upset to her, um about Turkey invading afron Uh in Syria.

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Speaker 1: I didn't seem I didn't seem that upset when, um,

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Speaker 1: those journalists were killed in Afghanistan the other day, and

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Speaker 1: I see that stuff to get upset about im, Like

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, those are those are like those that's

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Speaker 1: like life and death. People are dying and I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that those are superficial incidents, and they do upset me,

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Speaker 1: but I don't have the emotional energy to get like.

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Speaker 1: There are so many things to be upset about. There

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Speaker 1: are people dying all over the world. There's kids starving

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Speaker 1: to death. You know, children die of stupid stuff, um,

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Speaker 1: that we shouldn't have to deal with in the twenty

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Speaker 1: one century, like kids dying of dysentery in Africa. Like

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Speaker 1: that's exhausting to like take all of that on, you know.

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Speaker 1: So like you get to my nine o'clock at night,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you come to me and you're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: this one country invaded another country, it's like okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, you have to find some joy in

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Speaker 1: your life out. Yeah. Absolutely, you have to find something

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Speaker 1: that you do for you that you enjoy. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if this falls into the superficial stuff. I

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Speaker 1: mean I had feelings on it. I was going to

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Speaker 1: save it from throat Punch of the Week, which we

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Speaker 1: haven't done in a while. But I haven't even heard

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Speaker 1: your opinion on it. I just think it's kind of crazy.

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Speaker 1: Did you hear about the Boys Outs dropping the boy

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Speaker 1: from Scouts They will now allow women in, which, to me,

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Speaker 1: it's get it. What's crazy to me is it's a

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Speaker 1: total one eight because I remember a few years back

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Speaker 1: they were saying like the Boy Scouts was too right

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Speaker 1: wing of an organization because they weren't allowing openly gay

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Speaker 1: people to be um I think, to to basically to

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Speaker 1: be in the Boy Scouts or to volunteer, like as

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Speaker 1: a leader. And I think some of that was like

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Speaker 1: fear over the child molestation stuff, which is kind of

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Speaker 1: overbold over exactly not obviously, it goes to that saying

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Speaker 1: not every gay person is a child blester, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of heterosexual people who are

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Speaker 1: fucking pedophiles. Sure, so I I thought that was crazy

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Speaker 1: but now it's like to go in the complete opposite

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Speaker 1: direction of political correctness and say that you could be

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Speaker 1: a boy scout no matter what your gender is. It's weird. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, can can boys join the girl Scouts? I

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Speaker 1: had friends asking that too. I was just gonna create

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Speaker 1: one organization called the Scouts. Well, I think in this

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Speaker 1: hole and this goes into the phony outrage thing, but

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Speaker 1: like this whole era of as they say, toxic masculinity

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Speaker 1: and people could say that, you know, we're like feigning

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Speaker 1: outrage here, but it's become like not okay to be

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Speaker 1: a male. Yeah, yeah, no it is. And there's a

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Speaker 1: conflation of like toxic masculinity being like you know, rape

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Speaker 1: and sexual assault and sexual discrimination, all those bad things.

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Speaker 1: Like they conflate toxic masculinity with like just normal healthy

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Speaker 1: masculinity as if they're the same things and they're not.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, it comes in. It makes it sound like

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Speaker 1: there's something wrong with being a man. UM I was

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Speaker 1: listening I heard, uh, I think it was like fucking

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Speaker 1: NPR or something like that, and they were like talking

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Speaker 1: about how we have all these negative male role models

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Speaker 1: that that UM advocates strength like Superman, Superman is a

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Speaker 1: bad role model for boys, because it's all about how

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Speaker 1: you should be strong. It's like, wait a second, now

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Speaker 1: you're telling me the guy who has all the power

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Speaker 1: in the world but always chooses to use it appropriately

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Speaker 1: and responsibly is a bad role model. Like you never

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Speaker 1: Superman never uses his X ray vision to like watch

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Speaker 1: girls getting you know, taking a shower, Like he always

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Speaker 1: uses his powers to like try to do the right

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Speaker 1: thing and like help the world and you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: save us from alien invasions and all that crazy stuff.

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Speaker 1: So I I wonder what the hell these people think

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Speaker 1: they're doing in criticizing the positive aspects of masculinity. After

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Speaker 1: you destroy the male gender, what's left? Like what comes

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Speaker 1: after that? And that's when you can you know, the

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Speaker 1: only person I've really heard articulate this subject well is

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Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson, who's like, look, weak men are the problem.

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Speaker 1: Weak men are dangerous. A weak man will do all

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Speaker 1: kinds of crazy ship to try to make himself feel strong.

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Speaker 1: Those are the people that are rapists, murderers, all kinds

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Speaker 1: of crazy stuff that we don't want a strong, self

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Speaker 1: confident man. It's a good thing. It's a good thing

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Speaker 1: for women. It's a good thing for men, it's a

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Speaker 1: good thing for society. So yeah, it's crazy some of

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Speaker 1: the stuff that they advocate, and you know, that's you

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Speaker 1: know why they called the war against men. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I mean I do think that this, as I said,

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Speaker 1: some people might put this in the superficial topic the

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Speaker 1: Boy Scouts thing, but I do think that it's just

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Speaker 1: slowly cramming an agenda because if if it gets to

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Speaker 1: you know, then a while girls in the Boy Scouts,

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Speaker 1: then conversation we had with Amber Smith, do we then

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Speaker 1: lower the standards that operators could be you know, women

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Speaker 1: if women aren't making it in and the kind of

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Speaker 1: forced inclusion and forced the quality. I don't know. It's

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Speaker 1: so strange because there's like one and it's not the

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Speaker 1: left per se, it's the far left. It's like the

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Speaker 1: extreme left that's like, you know, we need to have

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Speaker 1: safe spaces where it's only people of color and stuff

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Speaker 1: like weird stuff like it's that sort of like modern

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Speaker 1: day segregation that they're advocating. But at the same time

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Speaker 1: they want to you know, a tack the any kind

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Speaker 1: of separation of the genders, right, I mean, which is

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Speaker 1: why like I think we've you might you may have

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Speaker 1: said this, like why was that Rachel Dole? Is all

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Speaker 1: thing of a white woman identifying as a black woman

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Speaker 1: any stranger than a man identifying as a woman. I

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Speaker 1: think there there, and there's other stuff coming down the pike,

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Speaker 1: Like I would not be surprised if their next target

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Speaker 1: after the Boy Scouts is something like the Freemasons, because

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Speaker 1: it's men only. There's there's other clubs like the Elks

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Speaker 1: I believe is one of them where they were for women,

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Speaker 1: but Freemasonry and I'm not a Mason, full disclosure, I

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Speaker 1: have nothing to do with them. Um. But um, they've

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Speaker 1: always advocated and said, you know, there is a such

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Speaker 1: thing as male bonding, like that's important, Like we need

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Speaker 1: to have a place where men can go and have

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Speaker 1: their their world and you know, then you leave that

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Speaker 1: that club or whatever it is, and we go back

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Speaker 1: to mainstream society and you know we're all together. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think they're going to have to attack that.

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Speaker 1: And talked about this on on his own podcast and

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Speaker 1: power thought. Um I don't remember what episode, but one

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Speaker 1: of the earlier ones he attended some uh I guess

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Speaker 1: seminar book discussion on a guy where anybody who sees

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Speaker 1: Brandon's Instagram though he's a big watch enthusiast. This guy

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Speaker 1: wrote a book called The Man in His Watch and

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Speaker 1: he's discussing the book and he's saying, yeah, this is about,

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Speaker 1: you know, a book of the man man's bond with

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Speaker 1: his watch. And and some woman stood up and she

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Speaker 1: was like and woman, you know, and he's like, why

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Speaker 1: couldn't this woman just accept that, Like, this book is

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Speaker 1: about a man is watch. It's not it's not about

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Speaker 1: a person in his watch. That was the name of

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Speaker 1: the book. It's it is weird that there can't It's

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Speaker 1: like it's not okay to have, Like the male identity

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Speaker 1: itself is bad. And it's really weird because the same

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Speaker 1: people who advocate that talk about the future is female.

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Speaker 1: Women are fierce, we're strong, we're this, we're that. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, like there can be no such

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Speaker 1: thing as the male. The male has to be destroyed,

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Speaker 1: like after you, like, destroying men is not going to

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Speaker 1: make life any better for women. Yeah, do you remember

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Speaker 1: the Planet's Fitness thing that went on with the transgender

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Speaker 1: person and see, I thought this was pretty crazy. So

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Speaker 1: this is a while back. You guys could look it

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Speaker 1: up but there was a uh, you know, a male

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Speaker 1: who identified as female using the woman's locker room, and

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Speaker 1: was this down in Florida. I think I remember this.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember. I mean I remember the basics, and

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Speaker 1: it was just a normal looking dude and it was

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Speaker 1: with the year old guide who's like, I will I

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Speaker 1: identify as a woman? Very mainly were like, yeah, would

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Speaker 1: not pass for a woman. And so what happened was

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Speaker 1: there was a you know, normal woman using the locker room,

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Speaker 1: and Planet Fitness went up to the staff and was like,

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Speaker 1: I am not comfortable with this and you know, having

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Speaker 1: a man in the locker room with me. Uh, something

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Speaker 1: should be done about this, and they terminated the woman's membership.

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Speaker 1: I mean, once you set those bars, like what can

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Speaker 1: you do? Like how do you how do you enforce it?

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Speaker 1: And then I I mean I feel like the whole

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Speaker 1: I mean, you remember a couple of years ago we

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Speaker 1: were all upset about the transsexuals in the bathroom like

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Speaker 1: that that went away. Really again, it is a kind

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Speaker 1: of a superficial outrage like where's that now? Where where's

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Speaker 1: the transsexuals in the bathroom thing? Now? Well, if you

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Speaker 1: go to New York City, now, I was at Starbucks yesterday.

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Speaker 1: It's not like this everywhere but New York City it

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Speaker 1: says gender neutral bathroom. Most of them are in like

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Speaker 1: a Starbucks, like most of them were unisex anyway, because

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Speaker 1: they only had one bathroom stuf, which I in my opinion,

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Speaker 1: it sucks for women because guys are gross and we're

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Speaker 1: going to the bathrooms. They look terrible. We're like peeing

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Speaker 1: on the walls and stuff like that. Yeah, it sucks

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Speaker 1: for women. You're right, Yeah, I don't think like regular

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Speaker 1: women are enjoying that so much. Um And but you know,

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Speaker 1: I will give credit actually where credit is due, could

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Speaker 1: because personally, look, I have no problem um with gaze

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Speaker 1: in the military and very libertarian, but I actually will

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Speaker 1: give some credit to you, like the Christian fundamentalist right

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Speaker 1: on stuff on this one issue. I remember when gays

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Speaker 1: in the military was a big issue. You had people

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Speaker 1: on on you know, the Christian kind of conservative right saying,

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Speaker 1: if you allow this, it's going to allow you know,

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Speaker 1: the men who think they're women in the military trans

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Speaker 1: you know, transsexuals. And I remember the mainstream opinion was, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's just ridiculous, like that that stupid, slippery slope argument

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Speaker 1: and sure enough, like it did happen, whether you're for

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Speaker 1: it or not, like their argument did did happen. I

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Speaker 1: remember seeing it in the media, and this was really

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Speaker 1: interesting to watch. It was the Supreme Court decision allowing

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Speaker 1: gay marriage, and and you know, I support that for

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Speaker 1: gay and you want to get married, get gay married

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Speaker 1: and enjoy your life. Um. What was interesting about that

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Speaker 1: was when the Supreme Court decision came down, they said yes,

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Speaker 1: you can get gay married. It was the next day

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Speaker 1: where I saw news articles pushing for transgender rights, and

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Speaker 1: I thought that was fascinating because it was like, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing really in the press about transgender anything until this

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision. It was like there's no not even

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Speaker 1: like a moment of celebration. Well there was a moment

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Speaker 1: of celebration for a lot of people in the gay community,

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Speaker 1: but in the press it was like we went we

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Speaker 1: went right to the next outrage, right and uh. And

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Speaker 1: that's what Peterson talks about. He's like, it's not a

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Speaker 1: mistake that that LGBT acronym keeps getting longer. Yeah. When

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Speaker 1: I was when I was up at Colombia, when I

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Speaker 1: was going to college, that acronym became LGBT UH que

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Speaker 1: for questioning, Like you're not sure where you want it's

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Speaker 1: queer to write the gender queer is another thing. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Then there's a for allied and uh, and then there's

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Speaker 1: something else on there. But now that acronym is like,

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Speaker 1: it's like sixteen letters long. It really is. And he's like,

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Speaker 1: that's not a mistake. There's a reason why it goes

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Speaker 1: cookoo and it keeps getting longer and longer because you

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Speaker 1: can never have from from the an geological standpoint, And

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's the gay community per se. I

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Speaker 1: think it's a different ideology. You have to have this

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Speaker 1: constant social turbulence um, the constant social conflict, because that

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Speaker 1: is a place. When you create that conflict and that

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Speaker 1: turbulence and that uncertainty, it creates a space where you

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Speaker 1: can insert your agenda um, where you can advocate for things,

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Speaker 1: and you can push for things. So I think it's

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Speaker 1: a political tactic um rather than a civil rights tactic.

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Speaker 1: I agree. It's funny you mentioned that when gay marriage

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Speaker 1: passed in New York because I can tell you this.

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Speaker 1: I was working at Serious ex M at the time,

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Speaker 1: which at the time had a channel called out Que,

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Speaker 1: which was the you know, like gay channel. You know

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Speaker 1: that whole agenda. Basically, they had a whole channel dedicated

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Speaker 1: to it. I remember the day it passed in New York,

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Speaker 1: they actually called me to like sub in for some

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Speaker 1: show because they wanted to do all this live programming

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Speaker 1: that was unscheduled. They're like, this is a huge day

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Speaker 1: in New York. Came down, um and you know, whole

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Speaker 1: channel celebrating. Pretty shortly after that, I think within a

426
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: year they got rid of the channel complete. Yeah, And

427
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 1: I think it's because the big fight for the gay

428
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: community was allow us to marry. It took the wind

429
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: out of there. And after that fight has gone, how

430
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: do you talk about you know, gay rights issues for

431
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 1: not seven It wasn't on all the time. They replayed stuff,

432
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: but whatever, eight eight, nine hours of live programming, there's

433
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 1: not a whole lot to talk about. I would think, Yeah,

434
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I mean I'm not I'm

435
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: not gay, so I can't really Maybe you can't. Big

436
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 1: it was their big issue, is there, you know. I

437
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: think it's almost like, you know, there's definitely been some

438
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 1: fire taken out of the whole like we legalize marijuana

439
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 1: decriminalized one thing, because for the most part, even in

440
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 1: New York where it's not legal, if you walk through

441
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: New York City, you see people smoking joints, you smell it,

442
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 1: and for the most part, cops do not give it.

443
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,880
Speaker 1: The hippie let us. Yeah, I mean I've have conversations

444
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,879
Speaker 1: with NYPD and FBI and all these people, and they're like,

445
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: we don't give a sh it anymore. No one cares. Yeah,

446
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: like whatever, Yeah, I agree with it. Um, So we

447
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: have John Stryker Mayer coming on in or should it

448
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: is it mayor I think I've said my who it is? Yeah,

449
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: John Stryker Mayer coming on in a little bit. I

450
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: don't know if my notes printed out, but I did

451
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: feel like before we bring them on after that whole

452
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 1: which I liked that old like gender and sexuality. You

453
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: dragged me down there and I enjoyed it. But um,

454
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: you know, I think we should at least mention kind

455
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,440
Speaker 1: of what we do here, the big topics North and

456
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: South Korea finally meeting for the for the first time. Yeah,

457
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 1: it's interesting. It was very interesting as a surreal moment. Um,

458
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,159
Speaker 1: you know, for me at least to watch where Um,

459
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,360
Speaker 1: you know, Prime Minister of South Korea Um Moon met

460
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: with Kim Jong on and U or is it the

461
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,280
Speaker 1: I believe it's the President of South Korea, not the

462
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 1: not the prime minister. I'm sorry. Um. They they met

463
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 1: at the d m Z and there's like Kim Kim

464
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: just stepped right across the d m Z and they

465
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 1: shook hands. And then it was interesting Kim invited Moon

466
00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 1: across the d m Z. You see that where he

467
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: was like, why don't you come over to my side

468
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: and and and he did, and he stepped over in

469
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: North Korea, took one step in the North Korea and

470
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: they shook hands. Um, And it was interesting because it's

471
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 1: like it's one of those moments where you see how

472
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:27,480
Speaker 1: all of it is really a man made construct. We

473
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: have these ideas about like North Korea and South Korea

474
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 1: and the d m Z and these like immovable objects,

475
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: but really they are all these borders and everything it's

476
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: all created by men, and men can change it. And

477
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: you know, there's there are opportunities to to create a

478
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: better future. And I thought it was a it was

479
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: a historic moment, and there are reasons to be optimistic.

480
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: I mean, there are reasons to be pessimistic too, And

481
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 1: I would I would say, I'm I'm cautiously optimistic. You know,

482
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: North Korea has violated a whole number of different UM

483
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 1: agreements that they've made with South Korean the past. I

484
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: wrote an article about this. There's a bunch of them.

485
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: There's one in the seventies, there's one in the nineties,

486
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: and then there's one like two thousand seven, And they

487
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: were all similar to this one. De nuclearization, UM, move

488
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: towards peace and of the war, all that stuff, and

489
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,159
Speaker 1: North Korea in honor any of that. Uh? Is this

490
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 1: time going to be different? I hope? So, I hope.

491
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: So what do you what do you think is the

492
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: main reasoning behind like why now? Um? That's a really

493
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: good question. I think that probably a number of different

494
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: things lined up. Um. Kim Jong un is also a

495
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,760
Speaker 1: new president, relatively new. Yeah. Yeah, but he's been in

496
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 1: office for what about five years something like that. Yeah. Uh.

497
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: There have been suspicions. People have had suspicions that Kim's

498
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: long term agenda is to move North Korea towards a

499
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: market economy. Again, caution, let's let's not like put on

500
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: rose colored classes here and talk ourselves into this idea,

501
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: But it is a idea. It's one concept of maybe

502
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: what's going through his head that the Kim family regime's

503
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: first priority is to perpetuate the Kim family regime. Perhaps

504
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: Kim Jong an is a new leader who sees that

505
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: this future, this um, this track that North Korea is on,

506
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: is not sustainable, it's not realistic, that the state cannot

507
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: continue like this forever. Kim allegedly, I believe, Um, he

508
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: grew up a good portion of his childhood in Switzerland,

509
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: so he grew up in the West. He has seen

510
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: the Western world, and he must see in North Korea

511
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: like where we're you know, a hundred years behind the

512
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,600
Speaker 1: rest of the world. The people are. You know, he

513
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,640
Speaker 1: probably isn't the country itself. I mean from like an infrastructure,

514
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: a cultural growth perspective. I just mean he could be

515
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: afforded any luxury. Oh yeah, of course, yeah, he can

516
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: kickback drinking Johnny Walker all night. Um, but you know,

517
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 1: the people of North Korea are living like feudal peasants.

518
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: You know, it's horrible. Um. So maybe he is a

519
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 1: progressive minded leader that he sees, you know, our country

520
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: can't continue like this. We have to find some sort

521
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: of negotiated settlement. Um. Something happened with the Chinese, for sure. Um,

522
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: he had that meeting with the Chinese, like a couple

523
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 1: of months prior to this. UM. And I think there

524
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: is the factor of Trump wanted to meet with him.

525
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: That could be part of it. And that's going to

526
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 1: be a big debate, you know. And while the debates

527
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,840
Speaker 1: already happening is you know, should Trump win a Nobel

528
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: Prize for this? This might be that might be a

529
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: little premature. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And no, absolutely it was. Um,

530
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: you know, how much did Trump really have to do

531
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: with it? I mean, this is something that's been going

532
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: on since since then of World War Two, that's when

533
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: North Korea separated from South Korea. And there has been

534
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: you know, decades and decades of trying to resolve this issue,

535
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: the United States acting as a vanguard in the background, UM,

536
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: as a security guarantee for South Korea all along. Um,

537
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: does Trump come into office and over the course of

538
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: like sixteen months solve the whole problem? People who love Trump,

539
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: of course, we're gonna say that. UM. I mean I

540
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: would not be surprised if you know Trump, I mean,

541
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: he probably does deserve some credit for it. He probably did.

542
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: What's interesting about this, and this is this is a thesis.

543
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: This is a theory, not a fact. When Donald Trump

544
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 1: came into office, I was very concerned because of the

545
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: um things he said about NATO, about America's place in

546
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: the world, that he wanted to deconstruct the Western system

547
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: that largely America has been behind creating since the end

548
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: of World War Two. And that was very concerning. But

549
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: some of those concerns turned out to be unfair founded. Right.

550
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: It wasn't the end of the world. You know, Donald

551
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: Trump is not destroyed America. You know, let's let's keep

552
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: things in perspective. Um. But what I think Donald Trump

553
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 1: did do is I think he shook things up, maybe unintentionally,

554
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: and what he signaled to people around the world, including

555
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: in South Korea, is that you might not be able

556
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: to rely on America to fight all your battles for you.

557
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: You might have to resolve some of the ship on

558
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: your own. You know, Big bad us of a can't

559
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: come over here and fix all of your foreign policy

560
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: issues for you. And that may have motivated the South

561
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: Korean government and maybe the North Korean government as well,

562
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,239
Speaker 1: to move towards Um. You know what you know, this

563
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: is one of those French words you get to use

564
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 1: in political science reproach ma. Um. You know a reproach

565
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: meant a settlement. Uh. And so I wonder if Donald

566
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: Trump did maybe accidentally do that and in the sphere

567
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: of international politics, that he's signaled something in the world

568
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: that like, look, America might not always be there for you,

569
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: like you might have to fix this ship on your own. So,

570
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,959
Speaker 1: but that's a thesis, that's a theory, and I think

571
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: people will study this, you know, this question for quite

572
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: a while. Yeah, agreed, Um, we we want to get

573
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: over to John Stryker Mayor, who hasn't been on in

574
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: a little bit. Um, But I guess real quick, as

575
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: he's standing by, I feel like it should be mentioned

576
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll hopefully bring on someone who is a

577
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: little bit more expertise in this area. But the Israeli

578
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: Massad uh supposedly at least supposed getting the Iranian nuclear

579
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 1: plans which there which you know their prime minister and

580
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: that yeah, who called the I think greatest victory for

581
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, Israel's military. I mean, I'm not necessarily convinced. Um,

582
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: you know it's a there's w M d's trust. Make

583
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: sure you know he presented some power points, slides and

584
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: stuff like that that he says they captured and shows

585
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,680
Speaker 1: these bookcases full of binders. But I mean, who has

586
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: made a analysis of this of these documents and confirmed

587
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: that they show and prove what what Net and Yahoo

588
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: purports that they do. So I don't know. Um, I'd

589
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: like to get someone on from Israel, maybe like Dan Gordon,

590
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: which you know Dan Gordon is I love having one,

591
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: but very right wing. I kind of feel like I

592
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: know what is perspective will be on this, but I'd

593
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: like to maybe get him on. Um, I don't I know,

594
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: we've a writer from Israel, but he he's kind of

595
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: busy at the moment. So yeah, I know. I always

596
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 1: enjoy my conversations with Israeli's because, um, their perspective on

597
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: things is often totally different than the kind of I

598
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: have to say, childish, childishly superficial debates we have about

599
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: Israel and the United States. People don't understand anything about

600
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: that part of the world, or about Israel and America,

601
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: especially what you hear on the TV news is such nonsense.

602
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: You talk to Israeli's about it. You get a totally

603
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: different perspective. Very true. Yeah, all right, Well let's get

604
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: over to John, who we haven't had on and uh

605
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: and quite some time back on the podcast for the

606
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: first time in quite a few months. Is John Striker

607
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: mayor uh former McVie SAG and author and a favorite

608
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: of the podcast. Yeah. John h remember he's also he's

609
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: the author of two books he wrote On the Ground

610
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: and Across the Fence and his new he has a

611
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: new book out. Actually I wanted to ask you about

612
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: this today. John is SOG chronicles. Um. You know, he's

613
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 1: really done some terrific writing about Macvie Sagan. For people

614
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: who don't know, Macvie SAG was a is called Studies

615
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: and Observations Group. It was a Special Forces component unit

616
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: and they did, you know, essentially covert operations, clandestine operations

617
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: going across the border uh in Alaosan, Cambodia, primarily in

618
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: small teams to green berets and a couple of mountain yards.

619
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: And John was on one of those teams, Recon Team Idaho,

620
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: and eventually served as the one zero on that team,

621
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: which is the team leader. Um So John also he

622
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,080
Speaker 1: served in the unit, and he has also done some

623
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: really terrific writing about the unit. So, John, it's really

624
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 1: a pleasure to have you back on the podcast. Hey,

625
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: it's a pleasure to be back. Thank you. Do you

626
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: want Do you want to tell us about your new book, Chronicles?

627
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: Because your first book is really about your experience across

628
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: the fence, and then the second one is kind of

629
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: recounting the experiences of your friends and teammates who are

630
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: in sag Um. What's what's the this new book about? Well,

631
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: this one's prime the Centerpiece. Well, first of all, it's

632
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: going to be the first of what I hope will

633
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,400
Speaker 1: be many and the model for saw Chronicles in the

634
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,279
Speaker 1: future will be We're going to write until we die

635
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,520
Speaker 1: because there's so many there are so many Socks stories

636
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: that haven't been told. So with that thought in mind,

637
00:34:55,080 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: this is Chronicles Volume one. The Centerpiece was a nineteen

638
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: seventy operations into Layoffs that went to the west of

639
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: the AO where a hatchet force of any and did

640
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: sixteen green berets went in to take the pressure off

641
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: of a c I, a operation that was getting overrun

642
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: by the NBA. So uh, the song team went in. Uh.

643
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: They had they're on the ground for four days and

644
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: the medic they had one Green Beret medic and he

645
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 1: passed up more than of the men there on the ground,

646
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: brought them back alive. A separate tutor children directly in

647
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: action and brought him back. He got the medal of

648
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 1: Honor at the Whitehouse, UH last October. The name was

649
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: Gary Mike Rose, I believe the centerpiece. And then and

650
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 1: then we have a couple other stories because at every

651
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: volume forward there will be once story about one of

652
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 1: the Green Berets sog Reconn teams that went across the

653
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: fence and remained missing an action today, So we still

654
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: have fifty Green Berets in Layoff alone, just from the

655
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: sequel ward. That is still m I as. It's incredible

656
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: to think about. I was, I was shocked when you

657
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: told me that number initially because and I knew that

658
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: we had m I as in Vietnam and you know,

659
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: in alloos and all that, but I mean, fifty of

660
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,839
Speaker 1: our troops, you know, still unaccounted for and allows is

661
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 1: it's incredible. Yeah, you and I were eating carneitis in

662
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: the Oceanside, California when we talked about that. Yeah, I

663
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: mean I think a lot of people are aware that

664
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,320
Speaker 1: we still have m I a's out there, of course,

665
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: but I mean that's just an incredible number just of

666
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 1: you know, our guys who were lost across the fence. Absolutely,

667
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's lonal deals. We just like an

668
00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: our case, um because we know so many of the guys.

669
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,919
Speaker 1: It's just a real heartache that you just you've got

670
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,360
Speaker 1: to separate it out and put it into some little

671
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,120
Speaker 1: mental plaza somewhere and don't let it ruin your life.

672
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: But you try to to go on to best you

673
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: can and try to help. And then over the last

674
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: four years, these s o A, the Special Operations Association

675
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: and the Special Forces Association have a combined field of

676
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: w m I A committee which is working closely with

677
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: UH and lobbying with d D and d p a

678
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 1: A on this issue. And I could borry more details later,

679
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: but the key thing here is we're really actively our

680
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,720
Speaker 1: voices being heard now and has had an impact effort

681
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,759
Speaker 1: to focus on bringing back off people because we still

682
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 1: as of today, there's one thousand, five and nineties seven

683
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 1: Americans still missing in action for Southeast days during the

684
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: Vietnam War, which include Laos, Cambodia, North Vietnam and the

685
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 1: South Field. Uh that's insane. And I mean part of

686
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: the part of the problem too is I mean, this

687
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: isn't like recovering m I as in France. Uh you

688
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,319
Speaker 1: know that we lost in World War Two. I mean

689
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,839
Speaker 1: that's a relatively easy endeavor, um to recover guys from

690
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: Western Europe. But in Southeast Asia, you're going into terrain

691
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: that is both mountainous and jungle. Um. You know, the

692
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: between the overgrowth, the weather, the heat, um and all

693
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: that stuff I mean just contends to make those kind

694
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 1: of recovery operations incredibly difficult. I would imagine. Oh absolutely,

695
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 1: And uh um, I just Jack, I just sent you

696
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 1: an email with the copy of the Septa moment which

697
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: happy thank you on the mission that Mike Taylor was on.

698
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: We can get into that a little bit later. But

699
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,400
Speaker 1: you're right. And here's the other thing. I mean, suppose

700
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 1: that you're a d P, A a forensic scientist. Would

701
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,959
Speaker 1: you rather be staying at a fourth store four star

702
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: hotel in Luxembourg or being techpon province and layoffs in

703
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: the jungle at night, getting your ass eating up by

704
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: spiders and skis. You know, and that's one of the

705
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: sub background issues we've been dealing with, is trying to

706
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: keep the focus on our men in Southeast Asia. And

707
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: it's been kind of a fight in that regard, hasn't

708
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 1: it too, Because for them it's easy to go and

709
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: recover World War two m I A. In Europe, by comparison,

710
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,279
Speaker 1: you have to mount like basically mount like an expedition

711
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,479
Speaker 1: to go and recover you know, guys who are lost

712
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 1: in Louse. Well. Yeah, and and then in addition to that,

713
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: you know, you know, particularly as we all do, how

714
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 1: we get this member games are like during the Vietnam

715
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 1: War at one point we're talking about everybody's so proud

716
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,759
Speaker 1: of how many enemies did we killed today? Were a

717
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: member's game was silly, is irrelevant and really had little

718
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: meaning in the real world, what would that going on

719
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: in the ground? Well, D T A. A. There's been

720
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: a upper level of management beneath, beneath the top director.

721
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 1: Now as a new director who is he knows the

722
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: program and he's beginning, I believe, to actively work against

723
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 1: this mindset while he resets and really makes and keeps

724
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: Southeast Daysia as a priority. But prior to Kelly McKay

725
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 1: being sworn in on Labor Day. Last Labor Day as

726
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,840
Speaker 1: the new director. There was a very strong effort to

727
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: get into a body count and the reason why he

728
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: got into the body count because upper management types at

729
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: d p a A and its predecessor were were ignorant

730
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,760
Speaker 1: and they were into body counts and in press. Congress

731
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:46,919
Speaker 1: And the reason why isn't twenty two thousand nine or ten,

732
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:51,080
Speaker 1: Congress mandated that d p A and as predator at

733
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:57,240
Speaker 1: the time, developed the capacity and the capability to reach

734
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 1: and recover two hundred. It didn't say actually hammer, but

735
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 1: first developed the capability in the capacity. Well, the bureaucrast

736
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: the upper level bureaucrasts have been pushing the numbers game

737
00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 1: ever since. And that's why they pushed really hard to

738
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,840
Speaker 1: get the World War two guys. They go to the

739
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: punch bowl, they pick up a bunch of remains, and

740
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 1: they go to cemeteries known sites from World War Two,

741
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: which is good for the families for World War Two

742
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 1: because now they've got new hope to bring back theiry means.

743
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: But that emphasis has been on the number's game. There

744
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: have been things internally that the taking away people from

745
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 1: the Southeast Asian Mission and um, they've been emphasizing this.

746
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,680
Speaker 1: So now on the Kelly McKay, he's grabsually bringing the

747
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 1: focus back to Southeast Asia and getting some stamping on board,

748
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: as well as reaching out to nonprofits to help do

749
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: the joint efforts for the World War two and the

750
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 1: Korean War. Uh, folks that they want to try to recover,

751
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: and that can be done this way. It's it's done. Um.

752
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: It was an official program, but not the top end.

753
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: This is not just strictly a numbers scheme that makes sense. Yeah, No,

754
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: I mean any bureaucrat wants to show progress, and you know,

755
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,520
Speaker 1: when when their budget comes under review, they'll be able

756
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: to say, hey, look we recovered x amount of M

757
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 1: I A s and to show that kind of progress. Um,

758
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, or if you want to hit those numbers,

759
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: play that numbers game. You're not going to be able

760
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: to get the numbers you desire by going and mucking

761
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 1: around in the jungles in Southeast Asia, where you know

762
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: you can devote a lot of resources just to recover

763
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: you know, one or two individuals. Yeah, there are a

764
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: couple of these really key D P A A knuckleheads

765
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:51,760
Speaker 1: that really prioritize the numbers game, and it's just fundamentally stupid.

766
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,319
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, if you look at it from

767
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,800
Speaker 1: the near side, why should we send the whole team

768
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: to layoffs to try to recover one or two Americans

769
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,879
Speaker 1: when we can send a team to Luxembourg or Belgium

770
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: or Italy and get to be seventeen crew as twelve,

771
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,319
Speaker 1: that's a bigger, much bigger number than those stupid Green

772
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: Brays and l Yeah, so you guys, and I mean

773
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: that's that's I'm being a little bit cruel and harsh here,

774
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: but believe me. But yeah, the guys from the guy's

775
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: mind that there's been a part of this thing that's

776
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: been an in house battle and it's been it's really ugly.

777
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: And of course the guys from sog Field as if

778
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: they've been left behind. You know, like you said that

779
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: you knew these guys like I never knew them. This

780
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: was before I was born, you know, but you knew them.

781
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: You actually met these guys and they were your teammates

782
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 1: and you fought and bled for each other, and you

783
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: know some of them are still you know, left behind

784
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,040
Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia. I mean, of course you want to

785
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: bring them home. Oh yeah, John, this is painful, It

786
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: really is. This is I don't mean to like hit

787
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: you with a pop quiz, but do you know, because

788
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: I don't know how many am i as we have

789
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 1: from the Korean War. Oh, I think it's I picked

790
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 1: her up around a seven Sutherand but again there you've

791
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: got North Vietnam. Yeah, while we're talking, I'll go to

792
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: the I'll go to I wonder if if things really

793
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: do though between North and South Korea. Um, why we

794
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: we were holding our breath. We hope something positive happens there.

795
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: If it does, and that would you know, presumably open

796
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: the door for us to repatriate a lot of M

797
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: I A s from the Korean War. Oh? Absolutely, And

798
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: that would be asked another positive, you know, just for

799
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: the sake of history here, I mean after the Vietnam

800
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: Door to Vietnam war, you know, the wives and founding

801
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: members of Peel Dougs and and men who were listed

802
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 1: as missing an action, they were the first to actively

803
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,080
Speaker 1: engage is the government in the issue of field what

804
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 1: kind of contact? What treatment are people getting? And they

805
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: were some of these really uh strong family members that

806
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: got up and spoke up and they made they made

807
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: themselves heard. They had a presence, you know. And um,

808
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: so it was the Vietnam veterans and their families. So

809
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: the one of the key families here and now her

810
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: name is Anne Mills Griffins. Her dad was the first

811
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: director for what became known as the today is the

812
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 1: National League pel W M I A families. So her

813
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: dad married for a while and her sister were involved

814
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 1: in it, and and and has been the director and

815
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 1: chairman of the board directors for her over thirty five

816
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,840
Speaker 1: or forty years now that they've been fighting this battle

817
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: ongoing and um, they started it. So after they fight

818
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 1: these battles, and I mean there's there was really so

819
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: many bows along the ways, the tremendous history there that

820
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:16,000
Speaker 1: nobody has really written about in detail. But during this

821
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: time around about the nineties or early two, tails left

822
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: forget from the world where two people came up to

823
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: uh and and the National League said, hey, would you

824
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: help us form up believe we like to do what

825
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 1: you're all doing, and we'll work with you on this effort. Well,

826
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: a long story short to World War two people come in.

827
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 1: Then there's Korean War people who are very both surferous

828
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: but along the way they want Congress to focus on

829
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 1: their people. And the bottom line has fuck Vietnam, damn.

830
00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: And that's what it comes down to. And nobody says

831
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 1: it quite that way, but that's the bottom line. So

832
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: An has had these other on doing battles that have

833
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 1: been going on, and she just fought the battle valiantly

834
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:10,359
Speaker 1: for over forty years. Now. You know, if you I'm

835
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: sure you've been there, John, I've been there once or

836
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: twice to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Washington,

837
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:17,600
Speaker 1: d C. And um, you know, it's a it's a

838
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: fitting tribute to it's a moving experience. But I mean,

839
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: I think we all wish that that didn't have to

840
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: be there. Yeah, well sometimes you can understand where if

841
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: you're the unfortunate ground pounder who's on the ground when

842
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: one five round lands in the miliar squad and you

843
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: literally blow people up, like remember off you heard this,

844
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: you Hill eight seven five, But the one seventy three

845
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,960
Speaker 1: on Thanksgiving Day and no member of sixty seven they

846
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: had the command post set up and all the cps

847
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:55,360
Speaker 1: A conquered Hill eight seven five. It was a major,

848
00:47:55,880 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: horrific battle and the command post is up in the marine. Uh,

849
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: either a jet I think it was a jet mistook

850
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: the command post for enemy troops and dropped a five

851
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: hundred or a thousand pounder right in the middle of

852
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: the command post. So that was so those remains you'll

853
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 1: never know. You may not be able to identify enough

854
00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: there because they're just literally blown to smither rings. I mean,

855
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: one of our guys that ran Ricon after that told

856
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: me about the night after that bomb hit and all

857
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: night long you hear these weird noises and the jug

858
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 1: he's right on the jungle. They fought to get at

859
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,719
Speaker 1: the top of the hill and he couldn't figure out

860
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:41,240
Speaker 1: what these noises when he figured was the NBA playing

861
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 1: head games. Well in the morning when he woke up,

862
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 1: it was the animals that were coming up and picking

863
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 1: up the body parts, the legs, arms, fingers, whatever that

864
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: were in the jungle trees and they were all coming

865
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: out into the night to pick up the body parts

866
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 1: something that that body. You may not be able to

867
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: identify that body if you can't find a finger. I uh. Jack. Also,

868
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: in regards to your first question, Um, we have from

869
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: four more than three thousand Americans were recovered, but there's

870
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:26,439
Speaker 1: still um, several thousand missing in action. You know, we've

871
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: had things like that happen and uh in this war too.

872
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: I mean I was talked to a friend of mine

873
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: the other day and he was he was in Afghanistan.

874
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: They were doing a foot patrol and the guy behind him.

875
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 1: I don't think they know exactly what happened, but he

876
00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 1: probably he stepped on a pressure plate um and triggered

877
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: an I E D along the trail and he said,

878
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,200
Speaker 1: My person I spoke to was like, it was the

879
00:49:48,200 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: most surreal thing in my life. I mean, there's an

880
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: explosion and it was like the guy disappeared like a

881
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: magic trick. Like he's like I could never like my

882
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 1: mind could not comprehend what had happened. Like it was

883
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,800
Speaker 1: like this guy had just been like abducted by aliens

884
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 1: or something like what had happened to this person? And

885
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: like a couple of years later, another patrol found that

886
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 1: guy's radio, um, his emberor radio UM. But I think

887
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 1: that was the most they ever found from him. UM.

888
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, just just vaporized. Oh but yeah, it's

889
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: hardcore stuff. UM. You know, at least you know, in

890
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 1: that sense, he's somewhat accounted for I mean we we

891
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 1: know what happened to him and can offer the family

892
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: some sort of closure. Um. But I mean as a

893
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 1: grizzly business, you know. And uh, you know, my head

894
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: is off to any of the people who go out

895
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,319
Speaker 1: there and recover the remains of these guys and bring

896
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 1: them back home. Oh yeah yeah, and you know, um

897
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: in uh we have uh the s f A s

898
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: A Joint is called the s f A s A

899
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: Joint Peel W M I and Mike Taylor is the

900
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: chairman of that committee. And um in January, Mike went

901
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 1: back to Vietnam and there's a picture in the center

902
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 1: which if you got your phone when you're not Jack,

903
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: pictures of Mike sitting in or standing in layoffs for

904
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,680
Speaker 1: the field w N A Black and there's one team

905
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: behind him. There's got to be like people in closing

906
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: the local people they hire as well as the trained

907
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: forensic specialists, the team members. That's one site and it

908
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,440
Speaker 1: is man, it's hard work, but these people are so

909
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: motivated they really um do a great job and they're

910
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: really dedicated. Mike was just completely blown away how dedicated

911
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: the war to the mission. I'm trying to open this

912
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: attachment right now, John, but Keith talked to us a

913
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: little bit about as you had mentioned, UM, one of

914
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: your buddies going over to Vietnam and he met with

915
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: the n v A sage team said in the introduction,

916
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: your introduction was was very good. Thank you. We had

917
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: the sequel war on for eight years from sixty four

918
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: to seventy two, and by the time the islanded there

919
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: in sixty eight, we had the first intel reports that

920
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:25,440
Speaker 1: the North Vietnamese Army had were developing saber teams that

921
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:29,399
Speaker 1: were designed to hunt for and killed just the Americans

922
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 1: or the knock out of recon team. That was their

923
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: sole mission in life. So we had intel reports that

924
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: there were NBA and layoffs alone and CAMPBODI had varied

925
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: from fifties a hundred thousand plus in Campbody that we're

926
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 1: in the Sanctuary convention and thanks to our stupid coldness

927
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,360
Speaker 1: real State Department, we couldn't go in with convinced the

928
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 1: units and pursue them and engage them in their sectually. No,

929
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: we couldn't do that thanks to State Department. So, UM,

930
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 1: we're doing our buss as a file that's going on,

931
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 1: and UM we heard our first intil reports that they

932
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:15,560
Speaker 1: had the safferteines and we had saffers hit our base

933
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: camp October twenty August they killed seventeen Green Rays one

934
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: night and then yeah, and then January one, we had

935
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 1: a safer team to hit one of our recon teams

936
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: and killed only the Americans and it did escaped and

937
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: those were called we called them sag killer teams. So

938
00:53:42,239 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: um plast forward to our joint committee and they've made

939
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: in rows and worked with the league DPA officials and

940
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: um the National League went over for one of the

941
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: annual trips to Southeast Asia, were in and key members

942
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: of her Stare meet with people in Vietnam, Las and Campodia.

943
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: And then Mike Taylor, who ran recon. He served five

944
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:14,160
Speaker 1: years in Vietnam seventy two with the Mike Forrest running

945
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: recon out of CCS and then he threw Covey out

946
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 1: of Thailand and KP what he launched he did. He

947
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:27,800
Speaker 1: threw Covey of our recon teams and he's very knowledgeable

948
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: down to earth for an officer particularly, but a good man.

949
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: So he went over and and Are he was his

950
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: small group at a joint mission where they went in

951
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,680
Speaker 1: with and sometimes they met some of the v and

952
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 1: these official but and in the league had their separate

953
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: meetings with d P A A and the people from

954
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:55,400
Speaker 1: each country. Mike met local officials and veterans groups, including

955
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: one of the teams that was called C seventy five

956
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: that was basement in the Tribori area, Cambodia Layoffs and

957
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 1: Stout Vietnam. Yeah, the official the area and so this

958
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 1: was you know, a C seventy and that was their mission.

959
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: Mike met those guys and talked to him for the

960
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: first time, and it was like, I don't even know

961
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: if I could have maintained myself as well as Mike did.

962
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,440
Speaker 1: He went through it and as a result we're getting

963
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,399
Speaker 1: now thanks to the d P A A. They've had

964
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:31,840
Speaker 1: some major improvements, been working with the local people and

965
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:33,839
Speaker 1: they don't want to key players here. We never hear

966
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,640
Speaker 1: about much firs d I A. They've been involved with

967
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: day one and they've got people there. They've since the

968
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: war strictly dedicated to this mission and believe or not

969
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,759
Speaker 1: just in times when government officials keep trying to move

970
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,479
Speaker 1: d I A out or to get d I S there,

971
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 1: not to give them the duel. The dues that and

972
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: the praise that they've brought to the mission Becauld. They

973
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,319
Speaker 1: have their people are linguists, they know that the landscape,

974
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 1: they know the people, and Mike Taylor met with them,

975
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: as did Anne and her league at different times. And

976
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: through it all there's now unprecedented cooperation from both Vietnam

977
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,279
Speaker 1: and Layoffs. That little asshole dictator in Cambodia right now,

978
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: I've got some issues with his election and snuggling up

979
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 1: to the Chinese. Yeah, well they are, yeah, and that

980
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,200
Speaker 1: might be part of it. Mean, China is dumping billions

981
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: of dollars in the Cambodia and Layoffs literally buying loyalty.

982
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 1: You know that Cambodia is the country that is kind

983
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:44,560
Speaker 1: of fucking up Southeast Asia and as far as otherwise,

984
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:48,200
Speaker 1: they could have a united front against asserting their sovereignty

985
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: against China in places like the South China Sea, but

986
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 1: Cambodia is kind of even though they're land locked, they're

987
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: not on the you know, they're not on the sea.

988
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:58,279
Speaker 1: But um, they're the one that's kind of like the

989
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: vote of dissension, Um I understand it in the region. Well, yeah,

990
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: and then they have their their phony little election which

991
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:13,320
Speaker 1: you're just that, they're just phony and they the dictator

992
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name, it's not worth it, but

993
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: he has put put a real stick in the mud here.

994
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:25,919
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, they're they're not landlocked. They're they're they're they're not. Yeah,

995
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 1: but they're they're not they're not. Yeah, they're not facing

996
00:57:30,040 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: the South China. See, they're facing the the Sulusi I

997
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:38,840
Speaker 1: believe it is Gulf of Gulf of Thailand. You're correct, Yeah, yeah,

998
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: so they and you know back in the day, that's

999
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:47,360
Speaker 1: where the Russians, the Chinese, the Eastern Bloc countries that

1000
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: bring a lot of supplies of man power in bringing

1001
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 1: right through pen Pen where the premier Silos had no

1002
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: problem with that. But he did file formal protests when

1003
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: I dropped the white facel a grenade on some of

1004
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: the NBA troops and Cambodia. But that's another story. But

1005
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: this is the main point is on precedents. That's the

1006
00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: good news. Yeah, you're right, there's some political motivation here

1007
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: because you know, after being after being lost in a

1008
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 1: war with China for centuries, for millenniums um, they're looking

1009
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 1: for somebody can cozy up to because China is as

1010
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:30,400
Speaker 1: SOCCAP has greatly reported in recent months with detail about

1011
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,320
Speaker 1: some of they were muscling in here. Well, I wanted

1012
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: to ask you to John, if you could talk a

1013
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: little bit more about the former SAGA guys who have

1014
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:44,880
Speaker 1: gone over and met their former enemies, uh in North Vietnamese, um,

1015
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 1: because it's very interesting to me. The um. Some of

1016
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 1: the North Vietnamese were communist ideologues, but some of them

1017
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: really thought they were fighting against American colonialism. UM. And

1018
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,920
Speaker 1: there were more were there were more like Vietnamese nationalists,

1019
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: even though that in our intent we were not there

1020
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: to colonize that country. But you know, if your country

1021
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: has thousands of American troops, you might see that as colonialism.

1022
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,919
Speaker 1: I mean that's how they perceived it. Well, of course,

1023
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 1: And here's the if you ever, Jackie, you go back

1024
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 1: to Columbia University today to be a professor. I don't

1025
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,840
Speaker 1: think you'd ever do that, right, Yeah, Well, if you

1026
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: if you go back to a university somewhere and you

1027
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: wanted to a study on the power of propaganda and

1028
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: mind control and how it can work in countries, look

1029
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 1: no further. In Vietnam. I mean, Hochi men the boys

1030
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,439
Speaker 1: after America failed to sidle up to Hochi men after

1031
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,880
Speaker 1: World War Two and after DMBN food and all that. Um,

1032
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: you know, they he told us people, those Americans they're

1033
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 1: here just like the Franks. They want to be colonials

1034
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: and right before them. Yeah, yeah, And so everybody who

1035
00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 1: was fighting us really believe we were there to take

1036
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: over to the country. They didn't know it. Difference, they

1037
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: didn't have any free real news. That's that you know.

1038
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,040
Speaker 1: Back in there were still some news staces around that

1039
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,880
Speaker 1: that presented news from both sides of the story. They

1040
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: never had that day is strictly the propagandia. Whatever the

1041
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 1: continents want, there are people to know they knew. Yeah,

1042
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, totally different media environment. Like if you

1043
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: go back and you read the accounts of um, you know,

1044
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,520
Speaker 1: some of the first s F guys who were in Vietnam,

1045
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:33,479
Speaker 1: or some of the guys who are on White Star

1046
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: in Laos, you know, in the what was that late fifties. Um,

1047
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: the country they describe going into is just like it

1048
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: has no comparison to the Vietnam of today. No, no,

1049
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 1: we just had dinner last night with a guy. We

1050
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: just returned from Saigon five days ago and he said, yeah,

1051
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: you know, like May May one happy, that's how the

1052
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: community a country in the world. Um, but he was there,

1053
01:01:07,560 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: uh for that, and uh, that's really surprising because you know,

1054
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things going on where the people

1055
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:20,600
Speaker 1: there who you see capitalism all over and they're really

1056
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: just amazed how things are going up, this huge rising,

1057
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: a lot of members. But the Continist Party is still

1058
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,720
Speaker 1: in control. So if you get out of line too far,

1059
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:35,000
Speaker 1: still came whack your noodle for sure. Yeah, there's still

1060
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:39,440
Speaker 1: authoritarian beneath the surface, you know. I mean South Korea

1061
01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,520
Speaker 1: was like that too. I mean they were not communist

1062
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: by any means, but it was an authoritarian type of capitalism.

1063
01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't for a long time. It wasn't

1064
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:55,320
Speaker 1: very nice. Oh, no question about it. Yeah, and they

1065
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 1: still you know, if you say the wrong thing, you

1066
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,600
Speaker 1: still wind up in jail and you're mean, won't see

1067
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: you again for years. And that's oh yeah, so there's

1068
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 1: no no question about that. But anyways, in terms of

1069
01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: the big world scene, with China pushing the South trying

1070
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: to see issue, it brings it back to the focus. Now.

1071
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: I think it's really safe to say that over the

1072
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,480
Speaker 1: last eighteen months, we've had some of this in software

1073
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: where the people that are running the leaves on stuff

1074
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,200
Speaker 1: from North Vietnam, they're now getting us more access that's

1075
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 1: on precedent in Vietnam, as well as the coastal areas

1076
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:37,120
Speaker 1: off of Vietnam which before it's been off limits as

1077
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 1: and then they are encouraging in the Laotians who are

1078
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: now cooperating. So right now we have all limited access

1079
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,640
Speaker 1: and America as guys step up and get more teams,

1080
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:51,040
Speaker 1: get them up and running, and you know there you're running.

1081
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: You have to do that in between monsoon seasons and

1082
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: there are two months soon seasons that you have to

1083
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: work this all around as well as getting going in,

1084
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 1: get in the ground, get established. And so back to

1085
01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 1: your initial question of our guys that have gone back,

1086
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,160
Speaker 1: there's been a few. Mike Taylor is the most recent,

1087
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 1: the most startling, and he just spoke to our chapter,

1088
01:03:15,720 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: the Special Force Association Chapter seventy eight about some of

1089
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 1: us with some of the pictures and at the end

1090
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:23,240
Speaker 1: of it could come back and talk to you about

1091
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 1: the website wasnt paid. But it's curious. But Mike went

1092
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,120
Speaker 1: back two years ago we had Jim Shorten, and also

1093
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: that story was in software thanks to your team. There

1094
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: were James Shorten ran recon and one of his last

1095
01:03:38,960 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: missions as a recon team leader out of Contoon was

1096
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: to get an Air Force UH bright light and they

1097
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: had a F four, went in with two people and

1098
01:03:49,680 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: um when it was it was doing a bombing run

1099
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 1: and when something happened caused it to crash. It hit

1100
01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 1: one mountaintop, skimmed, crossed to a second one, wiped out

1101
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 1: a village that was under the under the trees and

1102
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 1: things that you couldn't see from the air, and then

1103
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: it crashed into a third mountain and Jim went back. Guys,

1104
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: I think the first time he went back was like

1105
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: ten twelve years ago. I have to get these acts.

1106
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: But he first went back on his own. He put

1107
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: together over thirty thousand dollars recruiting people, getting men to

1108
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 1: go in, and when he got to the crash site,

1109
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:34,320
Speaker 1: they had been there for a day or two and

1110
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:40,280
Speaker 1: he ran into uniform police that are bandits because in

1111
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,840
Speaker 1: the barrier there's still a lot of this outlaw faction.

1112
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 1: So they told him you can leave now or die,

1113
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: and they were outgunned to go Jim, the guys who

1114
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: we had a couple of handguns and all of the

1115
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: communist bastards had their A K forty seven. So Jim left,

1116
01:04:57,360 --> 01:05:02,160
Speaker 1: but he went back with d P A A and

1117
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: he was able to help you mentally because they were

1118
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: working on the first or second hill that the jet

1119
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: had touched instead of going to the third hill. We're

1120
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:14,840
Speaker 1: actually crashed and they found some things, but they weren't

1121
01:05:14,840 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: able to get enough. But Jim was on the ground

1122
01:05:17,160 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 1: with him for three weeks helping them go in pick

1123
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: up the dirt samples and then go through the whole

1124
01:05:24,160 --> 01:05:28,479
Speaker 1: screening process where they dumped shovel fools of dirt into

1125
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,479
Speaker 1: a screen a mess green and the share it through

1126
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 1: looking for bone pieces. So he's done that. That story

1127
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:40,400
Speaker 1: was in soft wrap and then um we had in

1128
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one a recall team was in under heavy fire.

1129
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 1: Upon extraction, they had three American three green berets on

1130
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: strings for a hundred fifty ropes hanging from the helicopter,

1131
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: and as the helicopter came out of jungle, one of

1132
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: the Americans, Sammy Hernandez, his rope got angled and it broke.

1133
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,680
Speaker 1: He fell to the ground, and was knocked unconscious. The

1134
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: helicopter with the two remaining SF guys pulled out and

1135
01:06:09,760 --> 01:06:13,120
Speaker 1: they got hammered with anti aircraft and the helicopter turned

1136
01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 1: around and he just crashed head on into a granite

1137
01:06:16,960 --> 01:06:21,080
Speaker 1: faced mountain side, killing the entire four man crew and

1138
01:06:21,280 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 1: the two SF guys and Sammy later woke up. He

1139
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 1: hit all night um in the morning, he got up.

1140
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 1: His shoulder was just sti kids from the fall. He

1141
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 1: had to popping shoulder back in the place. And then

1142
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:38,840
Speaker 1: uh e and e and the Billy Wall of Legend

1143
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:42,520
Speaker 1: was flying Covey. They saw Sammy. They were able to

1144
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 1: pull Sammy out. The next day, Cliff Newman was on

1145
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:49,720
Speaker 1: a bright light that went in. They found the six bodies.

1146
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: They put him in body bags. They took him up

1147
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:56,120
Speaker 1: to the top of the mountain for extraction, and the

1148
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 1: darkness closed in. In the morning, the NBA hit him.

1149
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,439
Speaker 1: They wouldn't get the bodies out. But Cliff has gone

1150
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:06,000
Speaker 1: back twice and this is this is a d p

1151
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:10,120
Speaker 1: A A case Nember seventeen zero six, and he just

1152
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,160
Speaker 1: got a phone call two days ago saying we're back on.

1153
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:16,240
Speaker 1: We're gonna try it again this time they're going to

1154
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:22,480
Speaker 1: have an LZ cut very close to the actual site

1155
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 1: where bodies were when cliff last song, and so hope

1156
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: that missed would be going down in either off or September.

1157
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: Back to the day. Yeah, I've met Cliff before, but

1158
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 1: I actually didn't know all that about him. I just

1159
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, we just talked about other stuff, and uh, yeah,

1160
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 1: Cliff never mentioned anything about his own background. I found

1161
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: out later modest dog I found I found out later

1162
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: on from asking another Special Forces officer, actually two of them,

1163
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 1: and I mentioned something about Cliff, and they will like, listen,

1164
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,280
Speaker 1: if you ask around about Cliff, you're gonna hear two

1165
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,320
Speaker 1: things about him. First off, he was good in the woods. Second,

1166
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: he was a slayer of men. I'm like, oh my god.

1167
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 1: Really well, yeah, and Cliff and I served together during

1168
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: my last tour. He was there and he won for

1169
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,639
Speaker 1: legendary stuff because he was the first combat jump high

1170
01:08:20,840 --> 01:08:23,960
Speaker 1: Halo jumped in the layoffs. Oh really yeah, see, I

1171
01:08:23,960 --> 01:08:27,040
Speaker 1: didn't even realize this. He's on the first team that

1172
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,400
Speaker 1: went in and you know, it's just turned out to

1173
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:35,000
Speaker 1: be a complete clusterfuck because they had they had the

1174
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:38,560
Speaker 1: Air Force gave them or somebody gave these boxes so

1175
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 1: that they could have censers or not. But yeah, something

1176
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 1: that they could identify were each other. Well, the boss

1177
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: wasn't waterproof and they jumped from twenty thousand and twenty

1178
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 1: six thousand feet in the rain, so by the time

1179
01:08:54,600 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: they go through the whole descent, the equipment was ruined. Anyway,

1180
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: they got on the ground and there's some good stories

1181
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,040
Speaker 1: out there. I don't think his stories and put in

1182
01:09:05,120 --> 01:09:09,640
Speaker 1: a book yet, but I'm talking to him. He's had

1183
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:13,040
Speaker 1: over seven thousand jumps in his life because he was

1184
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:15,040
Speaker 1: a jumper before he went in the army. He had

1185
01:09:15,640 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: over a thousand jumps I think before he entered the armies.

1186
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:22,920
Speaker 1: But he's a parachutist. And then he uh during the

1187
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 1: Secretary of Duty he had parties leg blown off by

1188
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 1: explosive device and put a new prosthesis on it. Came

1189
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: to jump today, John. We uh. We got to start

1190
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,439
Speaker 1: wrapping up here, but before we do, I want to

1191
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:43,439
Speaker 1: ask you from from your perspective, the perspective of the

1192
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 1: Special Operations Association and the Special Forces Association, what do

1193
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:50,240
Speaker 1: you guys see what would you like to see as

1194
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:52,439
Speaker 1: far as a commitment from d p A A like

1195
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: what kind of how many teams resources would you like

1196
01:09:55,720 --> 01:09:59,320
Speaker 1: to see allocated towards returning our m I as What

1197
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:01,680
Speaker 1: do you guys think would be something reasonable to UM

1198
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:06,080
Speaker 1: to set your sights on for for that that mission. Well,

1199
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: in all, we've never gotten to the point where we

1200
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 1: know is actly how many teams are out there. We

1201
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,760
Speaker 1: get we get some brief things about teams are going

1202
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:16,960
Speaker 1: in and going out. We'd like to see major expansion

1203
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: of the teams made available, trained up and ready to

1204
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:23,679
Speaker 1: go in. And I know that they've got a huge

1205
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:26,920
Speaker 1: case back roog and that here's one of the little

1206
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,200
Speaker 1: subtle things that going on behind the scenes where they

1207
01:10:30,320 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: have case investigators or casey anilets. They had a couple

1208
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: of these titles for them, all bureaucratic titles. But there's

1209
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 1: guys who are analysts. And what has happened over the

1210
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 1: last seven or eight years, the analysts that are specializing

1211
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 1: in Southeast Asia have been taken away. So now maybe

1212
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:54,559
Speaker 1: ten years ago there would have been fifteen or twenty guys.

1213
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:56,880
Speaker 1: They would all have the case that as well as

1214
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,920
Speaker 1: the people get pulled out that goes to Europe or

1215
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: or Japan or Okinawa. The Southeast Asia. Alice did keep

1216
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 1: getting more cases put on them, and so basically fair

1217
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:13,320
Speaker 1: we like the will that they would get more Alice

1218
01:11:13,400 --> 01:11:16,960
Speaker 1: that would come in to spread out the workload internally

1219
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: and then be able to get teams to go to

1220
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: the field. That would be increased a number of teams

1221
01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: and again you've got to work with the monsoon season,

1222
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:30,040
Speaker 1: which is a pain the ask and that would be

1223
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 1: the two main things. More analysts to spread out the

1224
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 1: workloads so they could have more detailed intel and then

1225
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:41,160
Speaker 1: more teams in the field. And Mike will have There'll

1226
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,559
Speaker 1: be a National League of Families meeting in June. They

1227
01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 1: have their Angle meeting. The four nine meeting is coming up.

1228
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,720
Speaker 1: I sow a lot they've been involved in this and

1229
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 1: some of those details will before coming in because they

1230
01:11:54,040 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 1: pretended to be transparent but to not. But under the

1231
01:11:56,479 --> 01:12:00,320
Speaker 1: new director, Kelly McKay, he's working hard to use the

1232
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:04,639
Speaker 1: transparency of d p A on that issue. I always

1233
01:12:04,680 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 1: love having Sorry before I forget Jack still m I A.

1234
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 1: I'll recover from the Chilean War in North Korea. Yeah,

1235
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:17,719
Speaker 1: really as well. I always love having you on John

1236
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:21,280
Speaker 1: for the audience. Pick up the new book, SA Chronicles

1237
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:26,559
Speaker 1: Volume one already has sixty reviews on Amazon, which is awesome. Um,

1238
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: and I know this audience will dig. Yeah, go go

1239
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:32,760
Speaker 1: and read like the story of SAG and what these

1240
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 1: guys did is something that Americans need to know about.

1241
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:39,360
Speaker 1: And UM, you know, I'm really glad that John and

1242
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 1: some of his other teammates have written books about the unit.

1243
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:44,880
Speaker 1: And um, we can talk about some of those other

1244
01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:47,080
Speaker 1: people in those other books too and have them on

1245
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: in the future. Um. And I'd like to have you

1246
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: on again to John, because you just have so much

1247
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,320
Speaker 1: knowledge on these subjects. Um. But I think this has

1248
01:12:56,360 --> 01:12:58,720
Speaker 1: been great and uh, I really appreciate you spending some

1249
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:02,040
Speaker 1: of your time with us today. John, That first is

1250
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:04,200
Speaker 1: all mine and I'm always preble to do it. And uh,

1251
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:06,519
Speaker 1: keep up the good work of soft Rep. That let

1252
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:08,800
Speaker 1: me know. And thanks for guests. The interview with Jim

1253
01:13:08,880 --> 01:13:11,880
Speaker 1: Marks that was a real kick. Yeah. Yeah, I need

1254
01:13:11,960 --> 01:13:13,640
Speaker 1: to get him on again too. He was. He was

1255
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:16,120
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. He another guy he's been all

1256
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:18,720
Speaker 1: over the world doing all kinds of strange, interesting things.

1257
01:13:18,760 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 1: So we're gonna have to have him on again too.

1258
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: Well your bet till next time, and gentlemen, thank you

1259
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:26,960
Speaker 1: for the good work. All right, thank you John. Thanks

1260
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 1: next time Airborne. Bye bye. Um wrapping things up here,

1261
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:34,040
Speaker 1: There's only one club out there with gear hand picked

1262
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:38,320
Speaker 1: by special operations military veterans from several branches, and that

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Speaker 1: of course is Create Club. Past items we've had in

1264
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,760
Speaker 1: our premium Creates have been an E d C Med

1265
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Speaker 1: kit put together by ben Ghazi survivor and Army ranger

1266
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Speaker 1: Chris Tonto Pronto and a ballistic shield insert for your

1267
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:54,679
Speaker 1: backpack made by cry Precision. Well. Create Club is really

1268
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Speaker 1: stepping up its game right now. Is progresses by putting

1269
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Speaker 1: out custom products that you're not going to find anywhere else.

1270
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Speaker 1: We have different tiers of membership depending on how prepared

1271
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Speaker 1: you want to be, and gift options are available as well.

1272
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: You can check that all out at Create Club dot us.

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01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:14,479
Speaker 1: Once again, that's great Club dot us. For your dog owners,

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01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 1: check this out. You're gonna love this. We've just launched Kuna.

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01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 1: We have a team of trained canine handlers picking out

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01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,360
Speaker 1: a box for your dog each month of healthy treats

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01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,719
Speaker 1: and training aids. It's custom built for your dogs size

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01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:29,439
Speaker 1: and age as well. The products are US sourced, all

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01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,479
Speaker 1: natural and not only promote a healthy diet, but also

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01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,719
Speaker 1: promote being active with your dog. So whether you're talking

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01:14:35,760 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: to pitbull or chuahua, that's just what you're looking for.

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01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:41,080
Speaker 1: You can see all of that at KUNA dot Dog,

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01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: c U n A dot d o G. And then

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01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:47,840
Speaker 1: also we have a fifty percent discounted membership right now

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01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,880
Speaker 1: to the spec ops channel. That's a spec ops channel

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01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:54,080
Speaker 1: dot com. You can check out shows like Training Cell

1287
01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:57,559
Speaker 1: and the app is available now for the iPhone early June,

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01:14:57,600 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: it will be available as well on the Android um

1289
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,280
Speaker 1: and as always, leave a review for us on Apple

1290
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,640
Speaker 1: podcast Great Happy John On and we appreciate you the

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01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:12,240
Speaker 1: listeners checking this out twice every week and at the

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01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:17,680
Speaker 1: indom you've been listening to Self Rep Radio. New episodes

1293
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 1: up every Wednesday and Friday for all of the great

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01:15:20,920 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 1: content from our veteran journalists. Join us and become a

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01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:28,200
Speaker 1: team room member today at solt rep dot com. Follow

1296
01:15:28,280 --> 01:15:31,719
Speaker 1: the show on Instagram and Twitter at self Rep Radio,

1297
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:34,800
Speaker 1: and be sure to also check out the Power of

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01:15:34,920 --> 01:15:39,880
Speaker 1: Thought podcast hosted by Hurricane Group CEO and Navy Seal

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01:15:39,960 --> 01:15:42,360
Speaker 1: Sniper instructor Brandon Webb