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Speaker 1: Literally, if you turn any packet around, everything is canola oil,

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Speaker 1: palm oil, and palm oil. Aside from all the environmental

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Speaker 1: effects yeah, which are terrible. Although the fatty acid profile

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Speaker 1: is okay, most of the commercially produced canal oil is

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Speaker 1: heavily contaminated with agrichemicals and that's extracted with heat and solvents,

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Speaker 1: and that natures the oil and creates coarcinogenic products. Hey everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast

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Speaker 1: in the world. Thanks to each and every one of

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Speaker 1: you that come back every week to become healthier, happier,

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Speaker 1: and more healed. And I am so excited to be

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Speaker 1: talking to you today. I can't believe it. My new book,

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Speaker 1: Eight Rules of Love is out and I cannot wait

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Speaker 1: to share it with you. I am so so excited

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Speaker 1: for you to read this book, for you to listen

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Speaker 1: to this book. I read the audiobook. If you haven't

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Speaker 1: got it already, make sure you go to eight Rules

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Speaker 1: of Love dot com. It's dedicated to anyone who's trying

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Speaker 1: to find, keep, or let go of love. So if

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Speaker 1: you've got friends that are dating, broken up, or struggling

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Speaker 1: with love, make sure you grab this book and I'd

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Speaker 1: my global tour Love Rules. Go to j Sheedy tour

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Speaker 1: dot com to learn more information about tickets, VIP experiences,

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Speaker 1: and more. I can't wait to see you this year. Now,

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Speaker 1: you know that I'm a curious person who wants to

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Speaker 1: learn more and more about our mind, our body, our health,

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Speaker 1: and tools and techniques that can improve that for us.

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Speaker 1: And I like sitting down with individuals who've dedicated their

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Speaker 1: lives and their lives work to understanding what can improve

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Speaker 1: the lives of others. Today's guest is someone I've been

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Speaker 1: really looking forward to having on the show. I know

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Speaker 1: you will be really excited as well. We're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about a wide array of subjects, but I'm

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Speaker 1: going to give you really practical, insightful tips and tools

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Speaker 1: that you can put into life and day immediately to

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Speaker 1: make an impact. My guest today is doctor Andrew Wilde,

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Speaker 1: a world renowned leader and pioneer in the field of

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Speaker 1: integrative medicine. Combining a Harvard education and a lifetime of

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Speaker 1: practicing natural and preventive medicine. Doctor Wile is the founder

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Speaker 1: and director of the Andrew wild Center for Integrative Medicine

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Speaker 1: at the University of Arizona, where he is a clinical

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Speaker 1: Professor of Medicine and Professor of Public Health. A New

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Speaker 1: York Times best selling author, Doctor Wile is the author

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Speaker 1: of fifteen books on health and wellbeing. Doctor While is

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Speaker 1: also the founder and partner in the growing family of

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Speaker 1: True Food kitchen restaurants. Doctor Wild's current project includemacher dot

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Speaker 1: com bringing the world's best matcha to the West. I

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Speaker 1: am so excited to welcome doctor Andrew. While Andrew, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being here. I'm very excited to learn from

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Speaker 1: you about a subject matter that has so much, as

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Speaker 1: we were talking about briefly before, has no insight, bad insight.

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Speaker 1: You know, I feel people are underserved in this space,

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Speaker 1: and so let's dive straight in. The first thing I

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask you and dive into you with was

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Speaker 1: this was this thought around what are the diet and

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Speaker 1: lifestyle habits people need to do every day to live longer,

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Speaker 1: healthier and prevent cognitive decline. Well, you know, that's fairly simple.

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Speaker 1: The first rule of healthy eating is to avoid refined

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Speaker 1: process and manufactured food. You know, that's what's doing us

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Speaker 1: in And I'm one of the first people to have

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Speaker 1: begun talking about the importance of containing inappropriate inflammation. And

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Speaker 1: I have developed an anti inflammatory diet based on the

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Speaker 1: Mediterranean diet, but I added Asian influences to that because

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Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time in Asia and there

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Speaker 1: are things there like mushrooms and turmeric and tea that

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Speaker 1: I find very useful. But it really looks there's more

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Speaker 1: and more evidence that chronic, low level inappropriate inflammation is

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Speaker 1: the root cause of most of the serious diseases that

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Speaker 1: do people in prematurely. So containing inflammation is very important

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Speaker 1: and diet has a major influence there. But again, the

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Speaker 1: first step of an anti inflammatory diet is to try

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Speaker 1: to eliminate refined process to manufactured foods. In terms of

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Speaker 1: other lifestyle practices, basic ones maintain physical activity throughout life,

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Speaker 1: get good rest and sleep, learn and practice some methods

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Speaker 1: of neutralizing the harmful effects of stress on the mind

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Speaker 1: and the body. Maintaining good relationships, especially spending time with

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Speaker 1: people and whose company you feel more positive. I mean,

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Speaker 1: those are very simple steps. As for cognitive decline, this

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Speaker 1: is of great concern to many people because we all

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Speaker 1: know people who have experienced cognitive decline and we want

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Speaker 1: to avoid that. So I think two very practical pieces

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Speaker 1: of advice. One is don't get hit in the head,

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Speaker 1: and that may mean, you know, taking precautions if you're

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Speaker 1: doing hazardous activities and being you know, I don't recommend

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Speaker 1: that people play for American football, for example. And another

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Speaker 1: is don't smoke because nicotine constricts blood vessels reduces blood

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Speaker 1: flow of the brain. So those are two two simple steps.

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Speaker 1: I think. Also I recommend practices like doing word puzzles

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Speaker 1: to keep your mind active. Learning another language. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to master the language, just the attempt to learn

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Speaker 1: it is very useful. So those are those. There are

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Speaker 1: some pieces of practical information. Yeah, I think you've given

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Speaker 1: us a beautiful spectrum of things to focus on there,

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Speaker 1: and I think I definitely in my life try and

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Speaker 1: tackle one of those areas every year. Great because I

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Speaker 1: feel that they're so big in and of themselves. And

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Speaker 1: my biggest mistake in the past was when I tried

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Speaker 1: to change everything everything at the same time, you're trying

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Speaker 1: to improve your relationship, you're trying to improve your gut,

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Speaker 1: you're trying to improve your workout regime, and so I

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Speaker 1: love what you're saying that there's all these things, and

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Speaker 1: I would listen, everyone who's listening and watching, please try

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Speaker 1: to choose one thing that you're going to try to

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Speaker 1: deeply improve this year that you feel is the one

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Speaker 1: you're struggling with the most, that maybe having the most

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Speaker 1: negative impact on you, because you'll start to see how

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Speaker 1: they all affect each other. Yeah, it doesn't. You don't

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Speaker 1: have to wait a year, however, right. I have a

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Speaker 1: book called eight Weeks Stop Them Health Program. Each week,

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Speaker 1: you know, you do something like you start by walking

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Speaker 1: ten minutes a day and each week you add you know,

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Speaker 1: five minutes to that. But I think you're quite right

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Speaker 1: that a big mistake that people make is to try

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Speaker 1: to do global change and then they give up. So

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Speaker 1: I think it's best to take it in small bites. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's dive into some of those, because I think they're

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Speaker 1: easier said than done. So what you just spoke about

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Speaker 1: with diet, that's something that I've genuinely been focusing on,

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Speaker 1: probably for the past twelve months, in terms of not

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Speaker 1: eating any pack foods and refine sugars and processed foods,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm eating only natural foods. I'm already plant

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Speaker 1: based in my diet, but making sure that I'm eating

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Speaker 1: vegetables and trying to avoid anything that's out of a packet.

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Speaker 1: It's easier said than done. It took a lot of

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Speaker 1: time for me to kind of move in that direction

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Speaker 1: to find a meal prep service. I have an amazing

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Speaker 1: wife who's an incredible cook and chef, and so that

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Speaker 1: helps you a million times over. For people that are

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Speaker 1: trying to make simple steps to changing specifically their diet

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Speaker 1: to an anti inflammatory diet, what a certain simple steps.

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Speaker 1: People condemn it the eight week version almost well, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the book, I said, learn how to be friendly

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Speaker 1: with broccoli. Broccoli is a very easy vegetable to cook,

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Speaker 1: but most many people overcook it and it's not very appetizing.

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Speaker 1: And there's a very simple way of cooking it for

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Speaker 1: about two minutes, so it's bright green and crunchy. Put

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Speaker 1: some olive oil on a garlic if you want. But

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Speaker 1: that's a wonderful powerhouse of vegetable with cancer protective effects.

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Speaker 1: Add some ores to your diet because they're full of antioxidants.

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Speaker 1: We talked about, I mentioned tea. I think tea is

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Speaker 1: a very healthful beverage. It's one of the main sources

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Speaker 1: of protective antioxidants. I think it's good to learn different

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Speaker 1: types of tea and how to add find which ones

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Speaker 1: you like. What specific teas have you found to have

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Speaker 1: those benefits. Well, I'm a big fan of green tea

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Speaker 1: because I've spent a lot of time in Japan and

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Speaker 1: particularly maucha green tea, which I think is you know,

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Speaker 1: as the highest levels of some of these protective elements

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Speaker 1: in them. But I think all tea is beneficial. When

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Speaker 1: I was doing research on healthy aging, I made a

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Speaker 1: number of trips to Okinawa, which at the time that

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Speaker 1: I was doing it had the highest concentration of centenarians

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Speaker 1: in the world. And one of the things that I

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Speaker 1: observed there was that in very hot weather, people were

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Speaker 1: drinking cold, unsweetened turmeric tea delicious. And you know, in

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Speaker 1: North America people are really unfamiliar with turmeric except as

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Speaker 1: it occurs in yellow mustard and curry. But this form

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Speaker 1: of turmeric and Okinawa was fermented and which makes it

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Speaker 1: more bioavailable and tastier. It dissolves very quickly in cold water.

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Speaker 1: It's really delicious. So that's one that I recommend, you know,

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Speaker 1: learning how to get more turmeric into your diet. It's

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Speaker 1: the most powerful anti inflammatory agent, natural anti inflammatory agent

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Speaker 1: that we know. Wow. Yeah, turmeric is a big part

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Speaker 1: of the Indian diet. Sod Indians eated at every meal. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and you know, one of the interesting correlations India. I

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Speaker 1: think rural India especially has the lowest rate of Alzheimer's

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Speaker 1: disease in the world, and many researchers think that's related

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Speaker 1: to the regular consumption of turmeric because Alzheimer's beiglins as

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Speaker 1: inflammation in the brain, and there's some animal research showing

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Speaker 1: that turmeric can protect rats that are genetically programmed to

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Speaker 1: develop Alzheimer's from developing it. So I think turmeric is

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Speaker 1: a very good thing to become friendly with. That's that's

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Speaker 1: great insight. I love that story of going to Okinawa.

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Speaker 1: I went to Sardinia a few years ago. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: one of the healthy, one of the blue zones. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and what's interesting, I want to hear what you saw there.

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Speaker 1: But the you know, if you go to these areas

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Speaker 1: around the world where there are unusual concentrations of very

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Speaker 1: healthy old people, women out and number men by a

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Speaker 1: long shot. You know, when you get up in the

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Speaker 1: ranges of upper nineties hundreds. It's almost all women. Sardinia

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Speaker 1: is the one exception that there men and women are

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Speaker 1: equally in those ranks of the oldest old and we

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Speaker 1: don't know why. Yeah, yeah, I was really fascinated to

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Speaker 1: see the few things and it's and it's all on

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Speaker 1: the spectrum of things you mentioned. But what was really

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Speaker 1: interesting is that their workouts when natural. Of course it

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Speaker 1: was farming. They were walking, they were taking care of

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Speaker 1: the land. Same in Okinawa, they were tauling, fishing nets

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Speaker 1: and gardening. I saw a thin one hundred and two

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Speaker 1: year old woman who was hoeing the garden in front

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Speaker 1: of her house. So that they're not going to gyms,

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Speaker 1: they're not working with trainers, it's just daily activity. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then the other thing was that they were eating

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Speaker 1: foods only in season. Everything was picked locally, everything was

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Speaker 1: locally grown or locally found, and they weren't eating things

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Speaker 1: that were just artificially available. And what about social connectedness,

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Speaker 1: I mean that was a big part of it. I

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Speaker 1: mean people were living in bigger families or living closer

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Speaker 1: by to families with children, so children weren't just being

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Speaker 1: raised by two people, that by ten people. And every

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Speaker 1: evening and even during the middle of the day they

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Speaker 1: would get together, and I think that's very important. They

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Speaker 1: MacArthur Foundation some years ago did a study of successful aging.

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Speaker 1: They identified a population of people they considered successful agers,

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Speaker 1: and then they looked to see what were the outstanding

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Speaker 1: commonalities and the two that stood out and this worked

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Speaker 1: everything else, whether they took supplements, whether they dietary patterns.

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Speaker 1: The two were maintenance of physical activity throughout life and

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Speaker 1: maintenance of social intellectual connectedness. I want to dive into

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Speaker 1: two things that you mentioned earlier, and I want to

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Speaker 1: dive into them deeply because I think, again they're buzzwords.

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Speaker 1: People know about them, but I'd like people to really

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Speaker 1: understand the benefits. So let's talk about macha because that's

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Speaker 1: your favorite daily plant. Yeah, an Ally, would you say,

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Speaker 1: has this incredible mind body benefit? I think it has

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Speaker 1: already seeped to twin mainstrement. Yea's quite amazing. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: went to Japan when I was seventeen and lived with families,

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Speaker 1: one family outside of Tokyo, and this was nineteen fifty nine.

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Speaker 1: Japan was a very different place and the second night

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Speaker 1: that I was there, my host mother we had no

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Speaker 1: language in common. Took me next door to her neighbor

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Speaker 1: who practiced tea ceremony. So the three of us sat around,

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Speaker 1: and the neighbor did a tea ceremony and presented me

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Speaker 1: with a bowl of macha. And two things about it

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Speaker 1: totally caught my attention. When was the color, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: this vibrant green. And the other was the bamboo whisk

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Speaker 1: that you used to whisk the macha tea into a

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Speaker 1: froth in a bowl of water. It's carved from a

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Speaker 1: single piece of bamboo. Just a miracle of Japanese craftsmanship.

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Speaker 1: So I fell in love with macha. When I got

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Speaker 1: back to the States, nobody knew anything about it or

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Speaker 1: ever heard of it. Over the years, when I was

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Speaker 1: go to Japan, i'd bring macha back and I turned

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Speaker 1: people onto it. I tried starting in the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 1: I partnered with the Japanese company to try to sell

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Speaker 1: it on my website. There was no market for it.

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Speaker 1: I did that again in the nineteen nineties. Anyway, it's

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Speaker 1: quite amazing now to see this penetrating our culture. Macha

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Speaker 1: is prepared in a very unique way. The tea plants

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Speaker 1: are heavily shaded for three weeks before harvest and ninety

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Speaker 1: percent in shade cloth, so it cuts out almost all sunlight.

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Speaker 1: In response to that, the leaves get bigger and thinner

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Speaker 1: and produce more chlorophyll, trying to take advantage of what

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Speaker 1: light is there. And they also produce more antioxidants and

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Speaker 1: flavor compounds and this amino acid al ponine that has

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Speaker 1: a calming effect and moderates the action of caffeine. So

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Speaker 1: for that reason, macha I think is more healthful than

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Speaker 1: other forms of tea. And also you consume the whole leaf,

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Speaker 1: just an infusion of it. So that's one that I'm

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Speaker 1: quite enthusiastic about. And I started a company. We got

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Speaker 1: the uurlmacha dot com, which was which was a great two.

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Speaker 1: How when did you get that? Last? Did you have

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Speaker 1: to buy it? It's like six or six or seven years.

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Speaker 1: We tracked it down. It was owned by a Japanese

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Speaker 1: man who had no idea what he had. He had

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Speaker 1: if he went to the site. He had pictures of

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Speaker 1: his cats, and my business partner, Andre Fasciola, managed to

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Speaker 1: negotiate with him and we got it at a quite

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Speaker 1: reasonable price. People in Japan can't believe we've got we've

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Speaker 1: got that. Anyway, We've repoured very high quality matcha. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, if your if your listeners use a

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Speaker 1: discount code J, we'll give them a very generous discount here.

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Speaker 1: So I'm a big fan of matcha. I'm delighted to

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Speaker 1: see the gaining traction. However, a lot of the matcha

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Speaker 1: here is not very good because it's such a fine

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Speaker 1: powder that unless it's carefully protected, it oxidizes very quickly,

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Speaker 1: loses its brilliant green color, becomes bitter. And many people

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Speaker 1: have tried much and say they don't like it, but

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Speaker 1: they've never tasted good much. So, as I said, I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of research has been done on green

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Speaker 1: tea in particular, but all tea has beneficial effects. And frankly,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to bash coffee, but I

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Speaker 1: would love to see more of a tea culture developed

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Speaker 1: here too. Good. I know, so coffee, You know, the

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Speaker 1: stimulant effects of coffee and tea are very different. Coffee

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Speaker 1: is much more jangling, It is much more associated with

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Speaker 1: truly addictive behavior. There's a real crash coming down from coffee.

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Speaker 1: You don't see any of that with tea. And some

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Speaker 1: of it is because of this modifying effect of ALTHENI.

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Speaker 1: But also I find it interesting that the historically and

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Speaker 1: culturally the associations with coffee Coffee was always associated with

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Speaker 1: kind of argumentative behavior, loud, raucous gatherings of people, political activism,

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Speaker 1: whereas tea, the historical associations are much more with contemplation, meditation.

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Speaker 1: I think it would be very beneficial to see a

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Speaker 1: greater tea culture develop in North America. You know, that

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Speaker 1: could work its way into some of the coffee culture

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Speaker 1: that's now so dominant. Yeah. When me and my wife

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Speaker 1: launched our tea company, we said we wanted to make

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Speaker 1: tea as hot as coffee, like that, like that was

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Speaker 1: the goal, because yeah, we grew up with tea culture

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Speaker 1: boats from our British and Indian heritage. Sure. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: found it so therapeutic. I like, you love the color,

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Speaker 1: love the scent. Yeah, I love the experience of having

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Speaker 1: to drink it slow. You don't really have tea exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: There's a meditative exactly process with any healing property too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's a big change. When I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: tea was what old people and sick people drank. In

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Speaker 1: this country, and it's wonderful to see that change now. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And the other one that I want to ask you

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Speaker 1: about was the Green Mediterranean diet. Yes, this is interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's just recently been in the news. We have so

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Speaker 1: much scientific evidence for the benefits of the Mediterranean diet

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Speaker 1: in terms of longevity overall, lowest risks of disease. And

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Speaker 1: I think most of your listeners are familiar with the

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Speaker 1: Mediterranean diet. You know, it's heavily on fruits and vegetables

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Speaker 1: and whole grains, olive oils, I mean cooking fat and

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Speaker 1: meat used very occasionally, oily, fish relively low, and sugar

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Speaker 1: so forth. So recently a green Mediterranean diet is proposed

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Speaker 1: as being even healthier, and this reduces animal products even further,

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Speaker 1: increases fruits and vegetables, especially sources of a class of

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Speaker 1: compounds called polyphenols. And these are antioxidant compounds that are

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Speaker 1: found in plants and fruits and vegetables, especially berries, tea,

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Speaker 1: and dark chocolate. So the Green Mediterranean Diet specifically recommended

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Speaker 1: green tea to add and they noted chocolate, but they

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Speaker 1: mentioned old tea. So I think this is fascinating, you know,

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Speaker 1: to see and these are researchers really, you know, not

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Speaker 1: really trying to promote any agenda. Yeah, has your work

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Speaker 1: led to any of the research that I'm recently seeing

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Speaker 1: around like canola oil palm oil and the negative harmful

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Speaker 1: effects versus what now I'm only eating in his avocado

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Speaker 1: oil and olive oil yep, as my product. There's one

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Speaker 1: other that you should check out as algae oil. If

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Speaker 1: you don't know. Okay, this is a new product that's

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Speaker 1: out there and it's it's made through culture. It's called

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Speaker 1: cultured oil, and it's it's microorganisms that have been been

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Speaker 1: altered in to produce oil which is almost all mono

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Speaker 1: unsaturated fat. Is has a very high smoke point, neutral

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Speaker 1: taste and also has one of the Omega three fatty

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Speaker 1: acids in it. So that's another choice. But those are

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Speaker 1: the ones I use. Also avocado and olives. And what

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Speaker 1: are some of the harmful effects of the canola palm

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Speaker 1: oil that because they're pretty much literally, if you turn

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Speaker 1: any packet around, everything is canola o palm oil palm oil.

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Speaker 1: Aside from all the environmental effects which are terrible. There

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Speaker 1: are two kinds of palm oils. There's an oil extracted

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Speaker 1: from the fruit of the oil palm, which is red

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Speaker 1: and is used in Africa as a cooking oil and

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Speaker 1: is okay, but we rarely see that. And then there's

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Speaker 1: the oil extracted from the kernel, and that is very

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Speaker 1: high in the unstable unsaturated fatty acids that oxidize quickly.

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Speaker 1: It's also very high unsaturated fat so that's not a

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Speaker 1: good one. Canola oil is a you know the word,

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Speaker 1: it means Canadian oil and it was developed by Canadian scientists,

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Speaker 1: I think in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties from

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Speaker 1: a traditional cooking oil that you know in India, rape

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Speaker 1: seed oil. Yes, that's right, and rape has a toxic

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Speaker 1: fatty acid and it possibly the Canadian scientists worked with

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Speaker 1: it to develop one that was low in that in

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Speaker 1: that fatty acid problems with canola oil. Although the fatty

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Speaker 1: acid a profile is okay, most of the commercially produced

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00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,800
Speaker 1: cannel oil is heavily contaminated with agrichemicals and it's extracted

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Speaker 1: with heat and solvents, and that denatures the oil and

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Speaker 1: creates carcinogenic products. So it's one I would stay away

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Speaker 1: from now. I recommend it in the past, but I

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Speaker 1: don't anymore. I'm a big fan of olive oil. Yeah, absolutely, yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely no, everyone cook cook with olive by the way.

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Speaker 1: I've taught, you know, I've I've worked with a number

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Speaker 1: of Indian patients, you know, who were very convinced that

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Speaker 1: gee can do no harm, you know, and it's pure

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Speaker 1: butter fat and it's probably not healthy, and the rates

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Speaker 1: of cardiovascar disease in the air pretty high. And I've

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Speaker 1: taught people to use ge as a flavoring, you know,

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Speaker 1: cook with a healthy ore like avocado, and then at

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Speaker 1: the end you can drizzle some ge over to get

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Speaker 1: the flavor you want. Yeah, and I've also suggested I

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Speaker 1: had a student, a physician from Kerala where coconut you know,

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Speaker 1: our land end of coconuts, and they use coconut oil

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Speaker 1: and coconut have full fat coconut milk, and I taught

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Speaker 1: her to use cashing milk, which is very easy to

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Speaker 1: make and this much healthier fat than than coconut. It's

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Speaker 1: mono un saturated and not saturated, and the taste is delicious. Wow,

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Speaker 1: that's good to know about gee because yeah, it's it's

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Speaker 1: one of those things that my mom never wants me

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Speaker 1: to miss, right, I know, but then I always hear

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Speaker 1: this like yeah, in between, but I like I like

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Speaker 1: the yeah, use it as a flavoring. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I like the happy medium, the happy balance. That makes

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Speaker 1: it sure we happy to hear about the turma. It good,

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Speaker 1: that's like and saffron's the other one. She's like, never

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Speaker 1: telling me to miss and that's a good one. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the turmeric, you know, our company also sells that

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Speaker 1: for men, a turmeric from Okinahwa. And I will send

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Speaker 1: you something to try please. That's delicious. That sounds amazing,

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Speaker 1: really good. This show is sponsored by Better Help. When

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428
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,000
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429
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,600
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430
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,120
Speaker 1: dot com forward slash on purpose again that zippercruter dot

431
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: com forward slash o n p U r p O

432
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: se zippercruter the smartest way to hire. It's fascinating you

433
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. Limiting the smokeing of cigarettes and the negative

434
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: effects of nicotine. What about when it comes to marijuana.

435
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: I think that you know, marijuana is such an interesting

436
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 1: topic for so many people today. There there are so

437
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: many perspectives. Most of them out there are like positive.

438
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: But I'd love to know from your perspective, how are

439
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: you seeing marijuana affect the brain? How are you seeing

440
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 1: marijuana affect the actual First of all, I'm gonna call it.

441
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call it cannabis because the word marijuana has

442
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 1: negative connotations. So let's talk about cannabis. Yes, so I

443
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,120
Speaker 1: did the first controlled human experiments with cannabis in the

444
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: nineteen he's nineteen sixty four. It was the first time

445
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: anyone had given that to human subjects in a controlled

446
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: fashion to see what it did. So it's a plant

447
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: that I've been involved with for some time. And let

448
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:33,920
Speaker 1: me say, you know, this is also a plant very

449
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 1: well known in India. It's you know, native to uh

450
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 1: To Asia. Um. The word it's the main species Cannabis ativa.

451
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: The stiva means useful, and cannabis is hemp. It's the

452
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: same root as canvas because canvas used to be made

453
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,120
Speaker 1: from hemp fiber. But this is a very useful plant.

454
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: It provides an edible seed, in edible oil, a fiber

455
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 1: of metal, us and intoxic and that's a lot of

456
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: ways for one plant to serve us, and it really

457
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: only wants to serve us, and I think we have

458
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 1: really not been wise in the way we've dealt with

459
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,439
Speaker 1: that plan. So in terms of the intoxicating properties of cannabis,

460
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: this is a it's a difficult subject to talk about

461
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: because the chemistry of that plant is so complex, there's

462
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: so many different strains, and there's so much variation in

463
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 1: individual reaction to it. Now, there are people who can

464
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 1: smoke cannabis before bed and have a great night's sleep.

465
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: Other people smoke it before bed and they can't sleep

466
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: the entire night, So there's that kind of disparity in

467
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,360
Speaker 1: reactions to it. First of all, that it is one

468
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,960
Speaker 1: of the least toxic drugs that we know. You can't

469
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: kill people with it, and you can't say that about

470
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: any drug that we use in medicine. And every drug

471
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: has a lethal dose, and in some cases the lethal

472
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 1: dose is relatively close to the useful dose. You can't

473
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: calculate a lethal dose for cannabis, So on a physical level,

474
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: it's extremely safe. I mean, there's concerns about smoking it

475
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: and whether that's how harmful that maybe for lungs. You know,

476
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: that goes back and forth. I don't think it's a

477
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: great idea to smoke anything, you know, and inhale smoke

478
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: into the lungs. Probably not a good idea, but certainly

479
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: not as I think, not as toxic as tobacco when

480
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't have anything in it, as addictive as nicotine,

481
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: which is one of the most addictive drugs that we know.

482
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: I think the medical usefulness of cannabis, there's a lot

483
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,120
Speaker 1: of potential there and I think this is a subject

484
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,600
Speaker 1: that's open at the moment. There's a lot of research

485
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: on ways it can reduce muscle spasticity, it can help

486
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: people with you know, all sorts of neuromuscular problems, with

487
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: digestive problems, but again a lot of individual reaction to it.

488
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: We're seeing this plant being made available to people and

489
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: it's it's I think it's about time it gets out

490
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: of that restrictive drug schedule and made available for therapeutic use.

491
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 1: I was just talking yesterday. Our center does a podcast

492
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: and I was interviewing a nurse who who was a

493
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,439
Speaker 1: member of the American Cannabis Nurses Association. I didn't know

494
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: there was such a thing, but there is a large

495
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 1: group of nurses who have now become trained in using

496
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: cannabis therapeutic way. They use all different forms and they

497
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,959
Speaker 1: based that on the individual patient. But I think they

498
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: were in a much better position to do this than

499
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: physicians because there's no cannabis preparation out there that most

500
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 1: doctors are going to feel comfortable using, and until we

501
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: have something like that, I don't think doctors are going

502
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: to go near it. They don't understand it. But it's

503
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: great that nurses are using a lot of them are

504
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: using it for pain control. They're also using it in

505
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 1: the hospice situations, especially with people with terminal cancer, and

506
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: they say they find it very useful. So I think

507
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm happy to see this becoming used.

508
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot we don't know about it,

509
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: and I find it very difficult when people ask my

510
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: advice about it. I don't know what preparations to recommend

511
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: to people. Uh, you know that it's confusing. What's your

512
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: take on the more social use of it? Well, I was,

513
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: you know, I was part of that culture in my

514
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, and uh, you know, it was it was,

515
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: it was. It was fun back then, you know, it

516
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:23,640
Speaker 1: was a fun social experience, you know. And then I

517
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: also found that it was very stimulated my imagination. Creativity

518
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 1: helped me write. But at some point that changed and

519
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: the my reactions to it changed. I became more introspective

520
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 1: withdrawn and then eventually it became an unproductive habit that

521
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: just made me groggy and it was hard for me

522
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: to separate myself from it. And what was that? Yeah,

523
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: what do you think that was? Because I think that's

524
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 1: that's such an interesting arc of a journey with it.

525
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,600
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people feel that way. That's

526
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: kind of like an arc. I had a lot of

527
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: friends who initially started for those reasons and then ended

528
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: up paranoid, who ended up yeah, confused, or ended up

529
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you know what, Maybe it has

530
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: something to do with changes as we age, possible, But

531
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: it was such a striking change in the effects for me. No,

532
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: so something that I thought of as an ally that

533
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 1: was helping me, really it ceased being that. Yeah, Yeah, okay,

534
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: that's that's really interesting to know, because yeah, I feel

535
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 1: I had a lot of friends in the same bucket.

536
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: I never really I never really dabbled with it deeply,

537
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: but but in my brief experiences, it was very brief experiences.

538
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: It was far more the creative or the spark. But

539
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,239
Speaker 1: I never got deep into it. But my friends who did,

540
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: they went on the same argue. So that's interesting. And

541
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 1: I don't know that I have not seen anyone right

542
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: about that or talk about that, or investigate what the

543
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: cause of that is. Yeah. Yeah, Also, you know, today,

544
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: the preparations of cannabis that they're out there are much

545
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: much stronger than those that were available when I was

546
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: using it way back. I mean the ones that are

547
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: available from a leisure perspective, Yeah, everywhere. Well, I'll tell

548
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: you a story for a physician colleague of mine and

549
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: San Francisco sent me three preparations of cannabis that had

550
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: come from a medical dispensary and he wanted me to

551
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: try them, and I was, you know, I'm a little

552
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: leery about that since I'm having used it so long.

553
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: One of them was a kind of oil that was

554
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: in a tube, a little syringe, and it came with

555
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:21,959
Speaker 1: a very professionally printed brochure and it was recommending it

556
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: for pain control especially, and it said to start with

557
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: an amount the size of a grain of rice and

558
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 1: work up from there. So I took a piece half

559
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: the size of a grain of rice, and my friend

560
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: that said take it at bedtime. It took it at bedtime,

561
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: went to sleep, woke up about an hour later in

562
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: full blown delirium, with hallucinations as vivid as those I've

563
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: had from using LSD. I couldn't move, I had no equilibrium,

564
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: had burning thirst, I couldn't reach for a glass of water,

565
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: I couldn't call for help, and it kept coming on

566
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: stronger and stronger, and I had no idea when this

567
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: was going to end, and I had to use all

568
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: the tricks that I've learned in meditation and breath control

569
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: to keep myself centered. And when it finally subsided about

570
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: hours later, my equilibrium was off for two days. I

571
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: had very bit bounds and I was really angry. I mean,

572
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 1: and this brochure said work up from there, And I'm

573
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: thinking there are people out there, you know, taking this.

574
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: I mean, that was like a very very powerful thing,

575
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 1: and I thought, fairly dangerous. What brought you into this

576
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: so early on? Because we're at a point in culture

577
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: I feel where these things are now coming to the forefront.

578
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, I'm probably sure you're seeing cycles

579
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: of that. You probably saw it come well if I was.

580
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: You know, I'm just starting work on a book about psychedelics,

581
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 1: and I'm a lot of it. I'm telling my own

582
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: history because I knew everyone involved in all of that.

583
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: But my interest goes back to about I think it

584
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: was a specific day in nineteen sixty, right before I

585
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,479
Speaker 1: went to Harvard, and there was an article in the

586
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: news paper in Philadelphia about the supposedly the death of

587
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: a student at a California university who was taking mescalin

588
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: for inspiration for a creative writing course, and that said

589
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: mescalin was a vision inducing drug. I'd never heard of it,

590
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: and they made the mistake of quoting from his last paper,

591
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: and I just remember this phrase, galaxies of exploding colors.

592
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: When I read that, I knew I wanted mescald so

593
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: I inquired about. I came across Aldice Huxley's book The

594
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: Doors of Perception, which had been written a few years before,

595
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: and when I got to Harvard, I had the very

596
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: good fortune to become associated with Richard Evans Schulties, who

597
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 1: was the director of the Harvard Botanical Museum, and he

598
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: had been one of the great explorers of the Amazon

599
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: and discovered a lot of lucinogenic plants down there, so

600
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 1: he really through him, I became very interested in psychedelic plants.

601
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: At the same time, Richard Albert and Timothy Leary were

602
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: just starting their work with sili. I've been at Harvard Um.

603
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: There were you know, these drugs were not controlled substances.

604
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,240
Speaker 1: Then I was able to obtain mescalin from a chemistry

605
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 1: chemical company. I took it a number of times, had

606
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: interesting experience, but it was very disappointed. I didn't have vision.

607
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: I didn't seek out. Very disappointed anyway. So that was

608
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: before I had ever tried cannabis. But as a result

609
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 1: of being in that place at that time, I really

610
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: got to meet and come across all of the people

611
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 1: who worked in that field, with Albert Hoffman, who was

612
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 1: the discover of LSD, Gordon Wasson who rediscovered the mushroom

613
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: cults in Mexico, U Sasha Shulgan who invented many of

614
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: the designer drugs. So I had a long period of

615
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: experimentation with psychedelics U and I you don't have had

616
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: a lot of benefit from them. I don't. I really

617
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: don't use them anymore. M my first book, The Natural Mind,

618
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:08,719
Speaker 1: which was about the importance of altered states of consciousness,

619
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: but Alan Watts wrote a blurb for it and which

620
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 1: he said, when you get the message, you hang up

621
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: the telephone. And so I think I got I got

622
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: what I had to learn from psychedelics, and I didn't

623
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: feel the need to continue to use them. But I've

624
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: learned a lot of things from them, and a lot

625
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: of that has formed my philosophy of integrated medicine, especially

626
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 1: the very subtle, complex interactions of mind and body. And

627
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:38,840
Speaker 1: I have seen very powerfully that you can change external

628
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: reality by changing internal reality. Let's dive into side cedelics,

629
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: because that was also what really intrigued me and drew

630
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: me to your work. Because again, I feel like my generation,

631
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: generations after me, they're starting to hear these terms in

632
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: mainstream culture a lot more often. And you know, I

633
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: feel like my role is to try and find the

634
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: deepest experts in this space to help everyone have as

635
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: much information they can have in order to make better

636
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: decisions for themselves, their friends, their family, and anyone that's there.

637
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: And so I'm going to ask questions that may seem

638
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 1: really simple and basic, but by design because I want people. So,

639
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: what are psychedelics for someone who keeps hearing that term

640
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: from their friends and they keep nodding along pretending to

641
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: know what that is? What does it mean? And what

642
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: comes under that? You know the word, it's a coined word,

643
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 1: which means mind manifesting. Previously people have called these psychotomymetic drugs,

644
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: meaning they mimic psychosis, which is, you know, a very

645
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 1: negative term. They are. Psychedelics are a large group of compounds,

646
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 1: many of which are found in plants. There's one we

647
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: know from an animal source. Many are synthetic or semisynthetic drugs.

648
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 1: They fall into two chemical families with very distinctive molecular structures.

649
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 1: Can mean is not a psychedelic, even though many people

650
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: call it that. Cannabis is not a psychedelic, doesn't have

651
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 1: any chemical resemblance to that. MDMA is part of that

652
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: chemical family, related to esclin, but its effects are not

653
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: typical of psychedelics. It has a unique effect that makes

654
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 1: people emotionally open. I think it is a very useful substance.

655
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 1: I guess I would call it a psychedelic, but it's

656
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: not a classic psychedelic in terms of the perceptual changes

657
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: that it causes. One fact about these this group of

658
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: compounds is they are strikingly non toxic physically, much as

659
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: with cannabis. You know, that's just not an issue physical toxicity.

660
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: The main dangers are psychological, and those are almost entirely

661
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: results of set and setting that is the expectation of

662
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 1: the person taking them and the physical environment in which

663
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: they're taken. So, you know, to put it in a

664
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,439
Speaker 1: very crude way, if you take a very high dose

665
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: of LSD on a New York subway on a day

666
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,200
Speaker 1: when you're feeling anxious, you're likely to have a bad trip.

667
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,439
Speaker 1: On the other hand, if you take the right sort

668
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 1: of dose in nature, when you are prepared for the

669
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 1: experience and in the company of people who can guide

670
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: you in the right direction, the chances are you can

671
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: have a positive experience. The penetration of psychedelics into mainstream

672
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: culture at the moment is quite astonishing. Before the pandemic,

673
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 1: I was traveling a lot and speaking in various places,

674
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,359
Speaker 1: and no matter what subject I was talking about, whether

675
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: it was nutrition, healthy, aging, integrative medicine. I would get

676
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: questions about psychedelics. You now, where can we get them,

677
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 1: how can we use them? How do you find somebody

678
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,879
Speaker 1: who can guide you? You know, a few months ago,

679
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: Vogue magazine had a cover story on philocybin talent, and

680
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: Country Magazine, of all places, had an article titled why

681
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: is everybody smoking toad venom? I mean, is it is

682
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: really going mainstream in a big way, And it is

683
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: absolutely absurd to have these in Federal Schedule one, which

684
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 1: is defined as drugs that are high potential for abuse

685
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,280
Speaker 1: and no therapeutic potential. The therapeutic potential of these drugs

686
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: is enormous. Now, you know, there is currently a lot

687
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 1: of research documenting benefits in mental emotional conditions, things like

688
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: MDMA for PTSD and OCD psilocybin for drug resistant depression,

689
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: for example, and treatment of addictions of various kind. I mean,

690
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: there's a long growing list of conditions for which clearly

691
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 1: there are good results obtained. But beyond that, I think

692
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: there is a tremendous potential of these two cause spiritual awakening.

693
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: Some of that has been documented at the Johns Hopkins

694
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: Center for Psychedelics, which is really good. I mean a

695
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: single experience with psilocybin and people who had no sense

696
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: of a spiritual dimension to life suddenly or aware of that.

697
00:39:55,000 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: In my own experimentation with them, I have had very

698
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: profound realizations that my consciousness extends to everything. You know,

699
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,720
Speaker 1: that everything out there is conscious, not just animate objects,

700
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: but rocks and everything, and that that same whatever that is,

701
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: it's in me, it's in everything. It connects me with everything.

702
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: I think having that realization is one of the things

703
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: that guided me in my philosophy of medicine and my

704
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 1: methods of treating patients. I think it's also changed my

705
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 1: attitude toward nature. And you know, I really the title

706
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 1: of the book I'm working on as psychedelis can save

707
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: the world. And I really believe that, and I think

708
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 1: it may be the only thing out there that has

709
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: that possibility, because you know, we are clearly headed for disaster,

710
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,359
Speaker 1: and I think the only thing that can save us

711
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 1: is a collective transformation of consciousness. I think that can

712
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: result from enough individuals having a transformation of conscious that

713
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,799
Speaker 1: it catalyzes some general movement. I mean, for instance, if

714
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: you just look at the issue of the climate disaster

715
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: that we're facing. I think if people realize that they

716
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: are part of nature, that they're continuous with it, they

717
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,479
Speaker 1: change their behavior. That's just one example. And I saw

718
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: some research recently showing that people who had had experience,

719
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: I think it was psilocybin particularly, tend to become involved

720
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 1: with the environmental movement. So that is the great hope

721
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: that I have. So I'm you know, I think this

722
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: could go a million different ways in terms of whether

723
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, for profit businesses get involved, whether people are

724
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 1: going to be using these the party, But I think

725
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I think just having these out there

726
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: in the general culture and freed from that restrictive way

727
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: that they've been placed, I think that holds great positive potential.

728
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: You like the idea of these things becoming more mainstream

729
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: and accessible and available because they have so many positive benefits.

730
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 1: But there's a part of you to understands, or is

731
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,879
Speaker 1: accepting of the dangers that come in with self diagnosis

732
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: and self use where it isn't being administered in a

733
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: healthy dose or a healthy way. What are some of

734
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: the because like the example you give of getting on

735
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 1: the train, Like I look at that and I go,

736
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 1: you know, as these things become more available. How do

737
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: we stop people going off the edge because they don't

738
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: know how to administer and monitor and actually, well, I

739
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: would say by training as many people as we can

740
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: to be guides who will behave in an ethical fashion

741
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: and are experienced and can structure psychedelic experience and way

742
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:35,359
Speaker 1: to minimize any harmful potential and maximize positive potential. So

743
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: there are a number of groups around the country that

744
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: have training programs for psychedelic guides. We need a lot

745
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: more of them, and you know, my hope is that

746
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 1: we'll start to see that, Yeah, because I do I

747
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,879
Speaker 1: do worry that I love the benefits of so many

748
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,080
Speaker 1: incredible sources out there, I do worried that when people

749
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 1: are untrained in anything that has that much power it

750
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: can be it can be worrying too, because you know,

751
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: you could have a whole world of people who could

752
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: be saved and supported, but in the wrong way, could

753
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: you know, could end up in a much worse place psychologically,

754
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: as you said, because there isn't that responsibility around it.

755
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: If that makes sense, would you agree with yeah? Yeah,

756
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: So that's my hope is that we're seeing, you know,

757
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: some large numbers of responsibly trained people who can guide

758
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 1: people in the right direction. Yeah, I just wanted to

759
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 1: clarify that with you because it's it's kind of how

760
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 1: I feel about technology, right, Like, if you look at technology,

761
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,880
Speaker 1: technology is like a drug in one sense, in the

762
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: way the chemicals that are released when we use them.

763
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 1: It's it could really be likened to a drug. Obviously,

764
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: it's not been talked about that way. That's not the language.

765
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: Where only seeing those experiences now, and we're seeing the

766
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 1: challenges with technology addiction. We're seeing the challenges with technology

767
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: obsession and the things that come from it, whether it's envy, comparison,

768
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 1: fear of missing out, anxiety insecurity, and you think, oh,

769
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,360
Speaker 1: wait a minute, Well, if we had technology coaches and

770
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: if people were trained in how to use technology effectively

771
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: before we were given a phone, chances are we'd be

772
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,319
Speaker 1: better at handling it and we wouldn't be doing this

773
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: backwards job that we're in right now, which is like,

774
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 1: oh gosh, my kids are all you know. Yeah, I

775
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: think we have no idea what this is doing to

776
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,840
Speaker 1: the kids brains, you know. I think it's obviously is

777
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: changing them, but I don't think we know the full

778
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: ramifications of that. Yeah, So it's definitely a concern, and

779
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: you're saying there's enough insight on the effects of psychedelics

780
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 1: on the brain for us to kind of be able

781
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:34,719
Speaker 1: to see the right amount of doses. Yes, exactly. Yeah, yeah, right,

782
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 1: Let's dive into some of the more popular ones and

783
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: how they use because again, we hear these names a lot,

784
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: and I think people are unaware of, like, well, what

785
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 1: is that used for? How is it administered? Who does

786
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: it help? So you were mentioning the MDMA, could you

787
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: tell us what is MDMA? Watch how is it used currently? Yeah?

788
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: So MDMA is a synthetic psychedelic and it resembles the

789
00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: structure of MASCAL and that family of groups does not

790
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 1: cause many visual changes, like you know a lot of

791
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,399
Speaker 1: the classic psychedelics. It is a stimulant, but it has

792
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: a very reliable, uniform effect in most people, which is

793
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 1: to produce a state of non defensiveness, calmness, positive emotional feeling,

794
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: emotional openness. It's a name that's been proposed for it

795
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: is an empathogen, something that creates empathy. I've used it

796
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: a lot and actually was It was invented by my

797
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 1: friend Sasha Shulgin and he sent me some and I

798
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: think somewhere around nineteen seventy five and said what do

799
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: you think of this? And I said, send more, you know,

800
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 1: you know, and I've seen many many people use it

801
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: with very very good results. I think it can be

802
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 1: incredibly healing for relationships. I've seen some remarkable physical changes

803
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: in people with disappearance of allergies and chronic pain. And

804
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: there's quite a lot of research on its usefulness in

805
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 1: dealing with PTSD. You know, sometimes one structured MDMA session

806
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: can eliminate that after people have tried all sorts of psychotherapy,

807
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,879
Speaker 1: talk therapy that hasn't produced results. So I think it's

808
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: very like that's going to be the first one that's

809
00:46:18,560 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: going to be made therapeutically available and probably for the

810
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: treatment of PTSD. Yeah, and that's PTSD obviously is such

811
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: an extreme experience, and so it sounds like, how I guess,

812
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: what are people experiencing when they do it? So it

813
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: sounds like they're more vulnerable, they're they're more empathetic to themselves,

814
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 1: I'd say it. I'd say it is a heart centered experience,

815
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 1: you know, strong feelings of loving connection with others, calmness, relaxation,

816
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,360
Speaker 1: and a strikingly uniform effect from person to person, whereas

817
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 1: the others, you know, a lot of the others a

818
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: classic psychedelics, this tremendous variation and in response depending on

819
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,320
Speaker 1: set and setting. MDMA is pretty uniform. Yeah, and again

820
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: you don't see this as something It sounds like this

821
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: is not something you do for the rest of your life.

822
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 1: This is a medicinal almost of like there's a certain

823
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 1: thing to treat and work through your working with the practicitioners.

824
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: You may not have to use it that many times, right, right, right,

825
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: But I think that that that's one that we really

826
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:19,799
Speaker 1: should have access to. In years, I lived as a

827
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,840
Speaker 1: monk for three years in India. I was in a

828
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: monastery where we spent hours every day deep in meditation

829
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: and reflection, in the study of spiritual texts and literatures,

830
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: and had very strict diets. But we were trained in

831
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:40,080
Speaker 1: the development of a lot of these almost like the

832
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:44,760
Speaker 1: purification and the detoxing to get to compassion and empathetic states.

833
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: And so when you were describing some of your experiences,

834
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: I was like, I had that experience through meditation of

835
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 1: that connectedness with nature and with the universe and with

836
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 1: each individual soul, whether it be animate or inanimate. So

837
00:47:57,239 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: I remember those through meditation, and so our journey was

838
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: very slow, very step by step, a lot of pain

839
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,399
Speaker 1: and a lot of a lot of obstacles to clear

840
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: the way. I'm intrigued by how does someone feel after

841
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: the doses run its course, Like are they able to

842
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: stay compassionate and empathetic with their partner? What happens? I'm intrigued. Yeah, Well,

843
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 1: the effect of the drug wears off, and it's because

844
00:48:22,480 --> 00:48:24,879
Speaker 1: it's a stimulant. You feel. There's a period of time

845
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 1: when you feel tired and somewhat depleted of energy, but

846
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: the feelings you remain, and you can reconnect with those,

847
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: and I think I see permanent change in people. By

848
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: the way, in the early days, when people were talking

849
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 1: about the spiritual potential of psychedelics, it really angered a

850
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: lot of spiritual teachers, you know, who said that this

851
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: was artificial, that these experiences, and I think they were

852
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,319
Speaker 1: kind of resentful of people having them without going through

853
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 1: the time and work that, like you put in. So

854
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: you know, I think there are many valid pains as

855
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: to achieve those kinds of feelings, But psychedelics are fast

856
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 1: and they offer the possibility of giving many more people

857
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:14,280
Speaker 1: access to them. Yeah, I've seen in my personal experience

858
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 1: with the right people around me and with people I

859
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: know that have experienced them, I've found them to be

860
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 1: great window openers for people, or door openers. It's kind

861
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 1: of what you describe like this idea that you've got

862
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: to have a glimpse into a new reality that you

863
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: didn't know existed. But I think I'm always intrigued by

864
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: how people have that versus it becomes addictive, where you're

865
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 1: just constantly wanting to live in that new reality. But

866
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: I think psychedelics have a kind of self protective quality

867
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: to them, which is if you try to take them frequently,

868
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: the experience disappears, right, So I think people quickly there's

869
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,239
Speaker 1: not a lot of motivation to use them with any

870
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: sort of great frequency. Yeah, and in terms of carryover effects,

871
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: I've told this story a lot and you may have

872
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: heard it, but just as an example, and this is

873
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: on a physical level, I had a lifelong allergy to cats.

874
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 1: If a cat got near me, my eyes would itch.

875
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 1: If a cat licked me, I'd get hives where it

876
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: licked me. So I always avoided them. And one day

877
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: when I was twenty eight. It was doing in the

878
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: country in Virginia. It was a beautiful spring day. I

879
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: took LSD with a group of friends outdoors. It was

880
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: just I felt wonderful. I mean I really felt just

881
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: high connected with nature, trific And in the midst of this,

882
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: a cat jumped into my lap and I had an

883
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: immediate defensive reaction, and then I thought, you know, this

884
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,879
Speaker 1: is silly, and I just relaxed and played with the cat.

885
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,959
Speaker 1: I had no allergic reaction, and I've never had one since.

886
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: No instantaneous disappearance of a lifelong allergic pattern. Is that

887
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,920
Speaker 1: a common path with that particular with LSD or No? No,

888
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: I think it's not not peculiar to LSD. I think

889
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,399
Speaker 1: it can happen with any psychedelic It doesn't happen automatically necessarily. Yeah,

890
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: but I could imagine no doctor Wile's allergy clinic if

891
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: these become a yeah, you know, where you give people

892
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 1: start with a full dose and expose them to the

893
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 1: allergy and then like once a week you'd reduce the

894
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: dose till at some point they were getting just a placebo. Yeah.

895
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,280
Speaker 1: I think you can. Allergies can be unlearned and that's

896
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: a powerful tool for doing it. Yeah, what are the

897
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: other ones that you think going to become more exist

898
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: This is the main compound found in the magic mushrooms,

899
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:29,240
Speaker 1: which traditionally were used by indigenous peoples in southern Mexico

900
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 1: and Central America. There are many species of them, Some

901
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 1: can easily be cultivated, some grow wild, especially in the

902
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,279
Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest. It's a very well known compound now and

903
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 1: it is being intensively studied and used, and especially for

904
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: mental health conditions, for drug resistant depression, for obsessive compulsive disorder,

905
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:55,320
Speaker 1: for addictive disorders. It looks quite safe, you know, it

906
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: is what's quite safe? Well again, no physical issues with

907
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:03,240
Speaker 1: it at all, no cognitive, no nothing. And in fact,

908
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: you know, there've been studies of people who've used these

909
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: compounds quite frequently over a long lifetime, and there's been

910
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: studies of their brains and they look perfectly healthy. So

911
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,120
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any issues there. So this is

912
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,880
Speaker 1: one that I think also is going to be made

913
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 1: therapeutically available fairly sif for mental health conditions first, but

914
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,480
Speaker 1: I think again one that has a lot of potential

915
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: uses in medicine as well, so that you know, the

916
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: main difference between psilocybin and LSD is duration of action.

917
00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 1: U LSD last ten to twelve hours, which can be inconvenient,

918
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,879
Speaker 1: and psilocybin is four to six hours, so it's much more,

919
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,879
Speaker 1: much more manageable. And some people are using a recreationally too,

920
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 1: and yes, how do they are? Yeah, well, again, I'm

921
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,160
Speaker 1: not going to be critical of people who I think either,

922
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to Yeah, I think I'd rather have

923
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: people used that than alcohol recreationally because yeah, that's because

924
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: it's much safer on a physical level, and I'd probably

925
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 1: be safer on a psychological level as well. When you

926
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 1: look at the numbers of homicides accidental deaths that are

927
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: related to alcohol, it's tremendous and you don't see anything

928
00:53:09,560 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 1: like that with psilocymon. Can you drive after Well you can.

929
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend it, probably, but if somebody's familiar with it,

930
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:19,960
Speaker 1: you certainly you can. I mean, it doesn't impair coordination

931
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 1: on a physical level like alcohol. Yeah, yeah, no, no,

932
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: And I don't have any side or any what's the

933
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 1: right word, any any dug in the fire, right I hear? Yeah,

934
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm asking from I'm just being so curious as delay.

935
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: I know my community would ask these questions, and I'm thinking,

936
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: all right, like I want, I want them to have

937
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,800
Speaker 1: such a real, genuine understanding of what this is. Because

938
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:45,640
Speaker 1: so let me talk about another compound is of great

939
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: interest is DMT. Yes, of course, dimetyl trip to mean.

940
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: So this is a it's a very simple chemical compound,

941
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: and it's related to serotonin, the neurotransmitter, and melatonin, the

942
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: pineal hormone. It's found in many plants, especially in South America,

943
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: and is used by Indigenous people, mostly as snuffs. They

944
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: prepare powdered preparations from plants and inhale it. And often

945
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: this occurs with another compound called five mathoxy DMT, which

946
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 1: is the one that's found in the toad that has

947
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: become pop foad venom. At any rate, DMT is if

948
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,799
Speaker 1: you smoke, it's it's a very rapid effect. You know,

949
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,640
Speaker 1: within seconds you are often another reality, and it's extremely visual,

950
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,480
Speaker 1: you know, incredible visual trips, and then you after several minutes,

951
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 1: you come back to ordinary reality. The five mathoxy virgion

952
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: is not visual. People describe it as a rocketship into

953
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: the void. Your ego dissolves, and when it reconstitutes, it's

954
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,200
Speaker 1: very pleasant. It is very likely that DMT is our

955
00:54:53,360 --> 00:54:57,040
Speaker 1: endogenous psychedelic that is made by the pineal gland, and

956
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: it may explain why some people have psychedelic like experiences,

957
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 1: whether it's from meditation or fasting or other things, it

958
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: may be from release of endogenous DMT. And some people

959
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: think this may also mediate the near death experience. You

960
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 1: know that so many people report. So I do believe

961
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: we have an endogenous psychedelic and it's very likely to

962
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: be you know, DMT. Wow. Yeah, and we're talking much earlier.

963
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:26,640
Speaker 1: And I love hearing about your travels. Have you have

964
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,920
Speaker 1: you been to the Amazon Yes? Yeah, you know, Shulty

965
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: sent me down there long ago. I made a number

966
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:38,880
Speaker 1: of trips. I was investigating medicinal plants, ayahuasca, mushrooms, and

967
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,960
Speaker 1: we spent time with shamans to learn what tricks I

968
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: could learn from them. So yes, So that was that

969
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: was in the nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties. I made a

970
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: number of trips down there. Wow. And and why do

971
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: the Amazonians have no problems we're taking drugs like DMT. Well,

972
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: this is an interesting thing, you know, there there are

973
00:55:55,400 --> 00:56:00,120
Speaker 1: so many psychedelic plants and preparations in South America and

974
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: in Mexico and Central America, and there are so few

975
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,160
Speaker 1: in the Old World. You know, there's one plant in

976
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: Africa called Eboga, the source of a drug called ibigang,

977
00:56:10,840 --> 00:56:15,839
Speaker 1: which is yeah for addictive behavior. This what's right. There's

978
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:19,719
Speaker 1: a possibility of one from from India. You know, there's

979
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: been great speculation as to what this preparation soma was

980
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: that's referred to in the vadas, so there's possibly there

981
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,799
Speaker 1: was some psychedelic preparation there. And the Eleusinian mysteries in

982
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:36,360
Speaker 1: ancient Greece involved drinking a potion that almost certainly was

983
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:40,200
Speaker 1: made from urgat and there was a way of detoxifying

984
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: that fungus and producing an LSD like drink. But otherwise,

985
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 1: you know, you've got this huge abundance of psychedelic preparations

986
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: in the New World. You know, it doesn't make botanical

987
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: sense that there'd be that disparity, so it must be

988
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,920
Speaker 1: something about the people. You know, in the Old World.

989
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: In African Asia, people I think are as drawn to

990
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: altered states of consciousness, but they get into them, especially

991
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 1: in Africa, through drumming prolonged wakefulness dancing rather than taking substances. Yeah. Yeah,

992
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:13,080
Speaker 1: so is that the difference that you see in how

993
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,680
Speaker 1: we take them and how how they take them? And yeah, right,

994
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:20,400
Speaker 1: but if you look at the indigenous peoples in South

995
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 1: America and the Amazon especially, these they are always used ritually. Uh,

996
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: they're often you know, under the direction of shamans who

997
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: were training trained in their use. Yeah. Absolutely, and you know,

998
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: I think they're the potential for abuse in those populations

999
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 1: is very minuscule. Right, Yeah, that's really fascinating. Yeah, I

1000
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:44,919
Speaker 1: feel like, yeah, it was always sacred, it was part

1001
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: of a holy ritual of some kind. It was always

1002
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: used medicinally and understood and it's kind of yeah, it's

1003
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: ritual is a very powerful tool for containing the harmful

1004
00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: potential of substances. Yeah, that's why they were created around

1005
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,320
Speaker 1: those I guess. Yeah. No, that's and that's always really

1006
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: interesting for me to hear because I feel like, yeah,

1007
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,400
Speaker 1: there's a there's a and I'm just reflecting on it

1008
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:08,520
Speaker 1: as an individual. I look at it and I think

1009
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 1: I really trust things that can are very focused on

1010
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 1: the intention in which they're taken, administered by someone who

1011
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: understands what the power and effective this is, and it's

1012
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:24,920
Speaker 1: in an environment that allows you to have a fulfilling,

1013
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 1: powerful experience with a certain goal or place to reach to.

1014
00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 1: That all of those things to me feel very coherent

1015
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 1: with how I would do anything, whether it's getting an

1016
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 1: operation or you know, like I got an operation last

1017
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 1: year and I wish I did more research on the doctor.

1018
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 1: You know, I felt the same way about that. I

1019
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: was like, you know, we blindly trust the doctor. You

1020
00:58:46,560 --> 00:58:48,800
Speaker 1: got placed with it, and someone told you that they

1021
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: were great, and I wasn't happy with the doctor I

1022
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: had at all, And so you know, it's it applies

1023
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: to all parts of our life. I think this idea

1024
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: of like am I intentional with the doctor? I chose

1025
00:58:57,400 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 1: the hospital? I chose that? I am I being thought

1026
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: for about these things? And in the same way. I

1027
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: don't think it's different. I think it almost has to

1028
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,600
Speaker 1: be thought about in the same way. In fact, you know,

1029
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: even with alcohol, there's some very interesting lessons from history.

1030
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,880
Speaker 1: When alcohol became available and it was a sudden invention

1031
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: of the Dutch, you know, so it was in the

1032
00:59:17,680 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds. In the wake of that, there was an

1033
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 1: epidemic of drunkenness, alcoholism, unlike anything that we've ever seen,

1034
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,480
Speaker 1: and even in this country, in America in the early

1035
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,400
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds something in eighteen hundreds, every store had a

1036
00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: barrel of whiskey and people went in, you just have

1037
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: a ladle a whiskey, and people started drinking early in

1038
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: the morning. All day long, drunks were lying in the street.

1039
00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 1: You know. It was it was an uncontrollable epidemic of alcoholism.

1040
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: And gradually, you know, over several decades, there was a

1041
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: social consensus that grew up that it was unseemly to

1042
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: be drunk, and that rituals grew up around the use

1043
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:00,640
Speaker 1: of distilled alcohol, one of which is the tale party,

1044
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:02,720
Speaker 1: you know, which is not going to happen at ten

1045
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: in the morning. You know, we're going to do this

1046
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: late in the day. There'll be food present and friends

1047
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: presents for social as a social lubricant, and that kind

1048
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: of conscious use and ritual helped contain the negative possibilities

1049
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: that could result from such a strong drug, right right,

1050
01:00:20,560 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: And of course, I mean with alcohol, there's so many

1051
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: proven negatives, right, and issues yea, even now, whether it's

1052
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:30,320
Speaker 1: got brain, etcetera, etcetera. Could you talk about some of

1053
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 1: those just that well, alcohol, you know, it is extremely

1054
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: toxic to the nerve, to the brain, into the liver,

1055
01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: and there's a there's arguments go back and yeah, that's all.

1056
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 1: Whether it are alcohol or moderate consumption, alcohol is beneficial.

1057
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 1: You know, some people say no, even one or two

1058
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 1: drinks is harmful for some, So this goes back and forth.

1059
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: I think many of the benefits ascribed to alcohol or

1060
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: benefits of relaxation, and for many people that is a

1061
01:00:56,800 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: main method of relaxation. But I think the fact act

1062
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:02,480
Speaker 1: is that you know, it is a strong talk and

1063
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 1: then you have to be very careful about using it.

1064
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,840
Speaker 1: And there's some people like women that have genetic risk

1065
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 1: for breast cancer, probably shouldn't use it at all. Right, Yeah,

1066
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: I was this fascinated me when I was looking at

1067
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,680
Speaker 1: your work. Your book Chocolate to Morphine is pivotal and

1068
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,680
Speaker 1: often the most stolen books in colleges in the last

1069
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: forty years. You tell us a bit about the book,

1070
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: and yeah, it's and then about this it's a very

1071
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: good book. It's it's still in print. And the main

1072
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: point of it, which enraged some people, was that there

1073
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: are no good and bad drugs. There are just good

1074
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,240
Speaker 1: and bad relationships with drugs, and I very firmly believe that.

1075
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 1: And I mean there's no there are no drugs that

1076
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:43,560
Speaker 1: have inherent good or horrible qualities. It's how people use

1077
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: them and how they think of them. Yeah, some obviously

1078
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,840
Speaker 1: are more difficult to form good relationships with them all,

1079
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,280
Speaker 1: and some of them, naturally, like chocolate, as as a

1080
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: victim of chocolate, have addictive you know, it's it's I was.

1081
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,320
Speaker 1: I've talked about this any many times, but I was

1082
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:06,000
Speaker 1: genuinely addicted to chocolate. And it took my wife and

1083
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: me like you know when I say addicted in the

1084
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 1: sense of like I could eat like a full slab

1085
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: in a moment, like a family pack version, like easily

1086
01:02:14,920 --> 01:02:18,320
Speaker 1: on my own, no issues, I see. And it took

1087
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 1: a long time for me to take chocolate out of

1088
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 1: my diet because a sugar I was taking into it

1089
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: so well. I put chocolate at the very top of

1090
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:30,400
Speaker 1: my anti inflammatory diet pyramid. How because it's taking it out,

1091
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,479
Speaker 1: No I put it back. It's there. It's the very

1092
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: top of the anti inflammatory diet pyramid. So it's something

1093
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,560
Speaker 1: that I recommend in moderate moderate consumption. It has very

1094
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: useful antioxidant I might have to change my relationship with

1095
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 1: dark chocolate, yeah at least. Yeah. Yeah, but a little

1096
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: bit on a regular basis is fine. Yeah, what's a

1097
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: little bit on a regular basis not a slab? It's

1098
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: not a slab. You have this real love for this

1099
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: plant medicine that can have such a big benefit people,

1100
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,840
Speaker 1: and it must be hard because so much of it's

1101
01:03:02,840 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: been demonized or or talked about in a certain way.

1102
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,200
Speaker 1: And I love what you just said. Now, It's like

1103
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:10,720
Speaker 1: you're arguing that it's about your relationship with absolutely and

1104
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: that's really fascinates me because I feel like that it's

1105
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,640
Speaker 1: almost like that's how we would talk about It's our

1106
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: relationship with technology, it's our relationship with money, fame. There

1107
01:03:21,120 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: is nothing inherently evil about technology, you know. I think

1108
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:27,120
Speaker 1: that's true of so many things. It's it's how we

1109
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: relate to it. Yes, as we use in our relationship

1110
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: is with it. Yeah, that's that's really fascinating. I also

1111
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 1: wanted to dive into the idea where you mentioned earlier

1112
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: around the spiritual awakening piece, because I definitely am not

1113
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:43,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm I would say, even though I studied in

1114
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: such a traditional and rigorous way personally, which has led

1115
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: to so many beautiful spiritual awakenings and realizations. I'm very

1116
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 1: not I wouldn't consider myself to be closed minded as

1117
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: to how other people find their parts. I find that

1118
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 1: I have my path and it is beautiful. But I'm

1119
01:04:01,560 --> 01:04:03,919
Speaker 1: very open to people finding their parts, and some people

1120
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:06,480
Speaker 1: are at different stages in their journey where they need

1121
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: different things. Could you walk me through what specifically been

1122
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:12,240
Speaker 1: used in a spiritual way and what have been some

1123
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:14,480
Speaker 1: of the results. Well, first of all, let me say

1124
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:20,920
Speaker 1: for me, spirituality means being aware of and acknowledging the

1125
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:26,080
Speaker 1: non material aspect of existence. Yes, working in the medical field,

1126
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:31,400
Speaker 1: I am so aware of and frustrated by the power

1127
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: of the materialistic paradigm. You know that many scientists and

1128
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:40,200
Speaker 1: many physicians don't believe in anything that's not physical. So

1129
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: when you try to talk about not let alone, not spirit,

1130
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:45,200
Speaker 1: but even if you try to talk about the mind

1131
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 1: and the influence of the mind on the body, they

1132
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: don't believe that. I mean, in the materialistic paradigm, if

1133
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,200
Speaker 1: you observe a change in a physical system, the cause

1134
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: has to be physical. Non physical causation of physical events

1135
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,080
Speaker 1: is not allowed for in that paradigm. So this is

1136
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,960
Speaker 1: what you know, there's a whole range of mind body

1137
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:08,560
Speaker 1: interventions that we make use of, an integrative medicine, hypnosis,

1138
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: guided imagery, visualization, therapy. But and these methods are very

1139
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:18,959
Speaker 1: cost effective, very effective, and they're totally underutilized because people

1140
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: don't believe in it, and that's why we haven't really

1141
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,720
Speaker 1: made sense of the placebo response all of that. So

1142
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,280
Speaker 1: I would love to see that change, you know, I'd

1143
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,160
Speaker 1: really love to see a paradigm shift. And to me,

1144
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: that's what spiritual awakening is about. You know, it's becoming

1145
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 1: aware of the non physical dimension and the reality of

1146
01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:42,160
Speaker 1: the non physical. And I make a very sharp distinction

1147
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: between spirituality and religion. You know, religion is about institutions,

1148
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:49,640
Speaker 1: and institutions are mostly concerned with perpetuating themselves. You know.

1149
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: Spirituality is this connection with acknowledging the non physical and

1150
01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: its importance in interacting with the physical dimension. I think

1151
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 1: there's lots of ways you can awaken to that. I said,

1152
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:03,960
Speaker 1: you know, for me and for many people, I've seen

1153
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: psychedelic experience become a very powerful way of doing that. Yeah,

1154
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:11,520
Speaker 1: and how does how have you and others sustained that,

1155
01:06:11,560 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: like you were saying yourself, like you you don't take

1156
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:15,760
Speaker 1: them anymore, but it's become a way of life for you.

1157
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:19,360
Speaker 1: It feels like that. Yeah, well, I meditate, I do

1158
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: breath work, and you know, I've always been fascinated by

1159
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:24,640
Speaker 1: the fact that the words breath and the words spirit

1160
01:06:24,680 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 1: are the same and most end of European languages, and

1161
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 1: that I think when we when we focus our attention

1162
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: on our breath, we're looking at the movement of spirit

1163
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:35,560
Speaker 1: in the body. So that's you know, I think that

1164
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 1: is one very practical, powerful way, and most people ignore it.

1165
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:41,640
Speaker 1: We have that right under our noses, and we don't

1166
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:43,440
Speaker 1: make use of it. I mean, you know, for you

1167
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 1: to have been at Harvard, to have done this research,

1168
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:47,320
Speaker 1: to have been in this space for so long, it

1169
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 1: is beautiful to hear you bring science and spirituality too together, Yeah,

1170
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 1: because I feel for so long they've been seen as opposite, opposite. Yeah, yeah,

1171
01:06:56,440 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: And I've never understood that as as considering myself a

1172
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 1: spiritual scientist or you know, it's in that sense of

1173
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:05,880
Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated by neuroscience, have always been fascinated

1174
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: by the brain, and at the same time, I consider

1175
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: myself a spiritualist, and so hearing you as like a

1176
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: doctor doing all of this medical work, but then finding

1177
01:07:14,920 --> 01:07:17,360
Speaker 1: the spiritual part and the functional part of same parts

1178
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:21,600
Speaker 1: of medicine. Did you always have that when you were studying,

1179
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:23,680
Speaker 1: because obviously you went off to become a doctor, Like

1180
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,720
Speaker 1: when did I think? I think I did always have

1181
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:29,120
Speaker 1: some of that. I don't know. I think I was

1182
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 1: born with it. You know. I can remember always being

1183
01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:36,040
Speaker 1: fascinated by the mind and how it related to the body,

1184
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 1: and from as far back as I can remember. And

1185
01:07:38,920 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 1: I tried to study that at Harvard, and I was

1186
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: very frustrated that I couldn't, you know, I started off

1187
01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 1: majoring in psychology, but at that time, psychology at Harvard

1188
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,080
Speaker 1: was completely dominated by the behaviorists. It was running rats

1189
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: through mazes, and they weren't interested in consciousness. I wanted

1190
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 1: to know about consciousness, wow, and nobody was interested in

1191
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,960
Speaker 1: doing that. And then also in the scientific and medical world,

1192
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: consciousness is seen as a product of brain chemistry or

1193
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,040
Speaker 1: electrical connections in the brain. And you know, I came

1194
01:08:09,080 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 1: to feel that consciousness is primary. I think consciousness organizes matter,

1195
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: you know, I think it organizes matter into more and

1196
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: more complex forms, you know, including the human brain. But

1197
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 1: that you know that enraged scientists when I try to

1198
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,240
Speaker 1: talk that one. Do you think we'll ever be able

1199
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 1: to prove the existence of consciousness well in a way

1200
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: that in a language, in a way that I think

1201
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: this is what I see as part of the psychedelic awakening,

1202
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:37,040
Speaker 1: because I think that that this really has the potential

1203
01:08:37,120 --> 01:08:41,439
Speaker 1: to chip away at that materialistic paradigm and the influence

1204
01:08:41,479 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: it now has on our way of thinking. There is

1205
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, a name for, uh, this idea that consciousness

1206
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:52,080
Speaker 1: is primary. It's called panpsychism. And that used to be

1207
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:56,320
Speaker 1: you know, no scientist would you know look at that,

1208
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: And now that's become a respectable movement in philosophy, you know,

1209
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: idea that everything is consciousness down to atoms. And and

1210
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,639
Speaker 1: I look forward to seeing that grow and have greater

1211
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 1: and greater influence. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, I've I've always

1212
01:09:10,120 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 1: considered consciousness to be like the first self. Absolutely and

1213
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,800
Speaker 1: and you know, obviously from a spiritual perspective, but even

1214
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,920
Speaker 1: the excellent explanation behind so many near death experiences or

1215
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 1: outer body experiences or of the sort. And when I

1216
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: have read scientific studies or even research or accounts of

1217
01:09:28,120 --> 01:09:33,080
Speaker 1: those experiences. There's a there's a truth that's not been uncovered. Absolutely,

1218
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:36,120
Speaker 1: and as I said, this may be mediated by release

1219
01:09:36,160 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: of our own endargeness psychedelic, which could very well be

1220
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: DMT right right, amazing, What a fascinating, what a fascinating direction.

1221
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:45,800
Speaker 1: I'm excited for your book and I'm excited for the

1222
01:09:45,800 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: work Andrew, is there anything that we haven't touched on

1223
01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 1: that that was a pretty wide ranging conversation. There's lots

1224
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: more I could talk about, but yeah, well, I'm hoping

1225
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:55,800
Speaker 1: this can be the first to many. That would be great.

1226
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 1: I think this is a great conversation for people to

1227
01:09:57,880 --> 01:09:59,639
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure everyone already knows about your work,

1228
01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:01,519
Speaker 1: but for new people to get introduced to your work,

1229
01:10:02,080 --> 01:10:04,040
Speaker 1: for people to really get a sense of who you

1230
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 1: are and you know, your your journey and parts of

1231
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: your story and your expertise. And I'm hoping that we'll

1232
01:10:09,320 --> 01:10:11,960
Speaker 1: continue to go deep when the books come out, because

1233
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: this is this has honestly been one of those um

1234
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,839
Speaker 1: it's been exactly what I wanted. I needed the dummies

1235
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 1: guide and that's really helpful because I think so often

1236
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:25,479
Speaker 1: that steps like missed and then the majority of the

1237
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 1: world just doesn't know what's going on, and so I

1238
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,600
Speaker 1: try my best to stay grounded and rooted with my

1239
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:33,880
Speaker 1: ear to the ground and be like, well, people are

1240
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: hearing these ideas, but they don't know what to do

1241
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:37,880
Speaker 1: and where it is. Well, you're doing a very good service. Well,

1242
01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,439
Speaker 1: thank you, You're very kind, and I hope that everyone

1243
01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 1: goes to match dot com use the codeju The books

1244
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:47,320
Speaker 1: that we were referring to in this episode of The

1245
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 1: Natural Mind, which is right here. And then this other

1246
01:10:51,920 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 1: book I have from doctor Andrew Wile is Spontaneous Happiness.

1247
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,840
Speaker 1: But there is a new book on the way as well.

1248
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 1: So these are two great starters, and look out for

1249
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 1: Andrew's new book, which I'm sure I'll be back on

1250
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:07,000
Speaker 1: the show to talk about when it comes together. So, Andrew,

1251
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time and energy. Thank

1252
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,720
Speaker 1: you for being here. It's actually just wonderful being in

1253
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:16,040
Speaker 1: your presence too. And I love how much you know

1254
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 1: life you've lived, and it sounds like you have so

1255
01:11:18,840 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 1: many more incredible experiences and stories to share that I

1256
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: look forward to learning that. Thank you so much for

1257
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 1: being here. Thank you for sharing your journey, your work,

1258
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: Thank you for giving us so much of a great

1259
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: education today. You're very welcome, amazing everyone's been listening and

1260
01:11:32,920 --> 01:11:36,719
Speaker 1: watching back at home. Make sure you tag doctor Andrew

1261
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:39,960
Speaker 1: Wile and I on Instagram, on Twitter, on TikTok, whatever

1262
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 1: platform you use, and let us know what you learn

1263
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,120
Speaker 1: from this episode. I hope this gave you an insight

1264
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: into a world that you're probably hearing about but may

1265
01:11:46,920 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 1: not have too much information on. Maybe you're an expert,

1266
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: maybe you knew all of this, but hopefully this will

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01:11:51,479 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 1: help you introduce it to a friend who may not

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01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,599
Speaker 1: be as aware as well. Again, thank you so much

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01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,719
Speaker 1: for listening. Makes you go and follow Andrew across social

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Speaker 1: media if you're a fan, go and order some of

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Speaker 1: the books as well. And thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: joining us on on purpose. I'll see you on the

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Speaker 1: next one. If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my

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Speaker 1: interview with doctor Daniel Aiman on how to change your

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Speaker 1: life by changing your brain.