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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Dad, starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria QK.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: Everyone, welcome to Mother Knows That. Today. We have a

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Speaker 3: very special guest for you, our new friend, Susan Hendrix.

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Speaker 3: We met Susan at one of our events on a

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Speaker 3: recent trip to Atlanta, and we instantly bonded with her

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Speaker 3: because of course she's from New Jersey. She's a journalist,

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Speaker 3: author of the book Down the Hill, and hosts of

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Speaker 3: a show Headline Crime on YouTube. Susan anchored Weekend Express

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Speaker 3: on HLN for years and has earned widespread recognition for

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Speaker 3: her coverage of the Delphi double murder case and her

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Speaker 3: coverage of the Gabby Petito story. Throughout her career, she's

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Speaker 3: been a regular news contributor on networks including CNN, NBC,

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Speaker 3: and ABC, and she will be a speaker at next

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Speaker 3: month's Crime com with the families of the Delphi murder

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Speaker 3: victims and investigators from the case.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 3: Susan, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 1: Hi, it's so good to see you both. I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad Cheryl introduced us.

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Speaker 3: I know I am too. It's a really good timing

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Speaker 3: that we're having you on today. Because Hulu released the

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Speaker 3: documentary called Capturing their Killer the Girls on high Bridge,

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Speaker 3: And obviously you are the expert on the Delphi case,

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Speaker 3: so tell us a little bit about what's going on

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Speaker 3: with that. Have you seen the documentary yet?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I watched yesterday and there's a few friends of

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Speaker 1: mine that I met there outside of court. And this

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Speaker 1: trial was I think about thirty days. It was a

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Speaker 1: long trial, and because there were no cameras in the courtroom,

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Speaker 1: there were people who obviously wanted to get in. There

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Speaker 1: were long lines. So I got to know of Tom Webster.

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Speaker 1: It is one of the He is a YouTube channel

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Speaker 1: and he was heavily in this documentary. Now, I got

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Speaker 1: worried that this documentary was being made and was asked

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Speaker 1: to be in it, and I said no, only because

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Speaker 1: I thought it would shift. I knew it would be

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Speaker 1: kind of I wasn't sure how they were going to

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Speaker 1: portray the family member, so to be safe, I just

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Speaker 1: wasn't in it. But I will say in watching episode one,

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Speaker 1: I think they did a great job of talking about

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Speaker 1: who Abby was, who Libby was, interviewing Becky Mike, Libby's mom,

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Speaker 1: Abby's mom. I thought that was very well done in

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Speaker 1: terms of getting to know them. I guess I thought

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Speaker 1: it'd be more heavily. I don't know. There was so

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Speaker 1: much vitriol. And this isn't about your opinion of the case.

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Speaker 1: He was found guilty. I believe the jurors made the

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Speaker 1: right decision, but there was so much anger and vitriol,

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Speaker 1: and what fueled that fire was no cameras in the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: So I understand why people felt the way they felt.

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Speaker 1: But I was in there and I believe he is guilty.

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Speaker 1: But the documentary, I thought, did a great job. I

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Speaker 1: saw pictures of Abby I hadn't seen before and Libby.

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Speaker 3: Are they trying what's the Is that what they told

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Speaker 3: you before when they asked you to be in it

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Speaker 3: like that it was being geared a certain kind of way,

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Speaker 3: Like are they trying to put doubt in people's mind

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Speaker 3: that he was really the killing?

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Speaker 1: And I think, knowing what I know for so many

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Speaker 1: years in broadcast media, that they want to hook you.

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Speaker 1: You see it in Dateline, right, so you see it

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Speaker 1: in all the different shows during this and I think,

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Speaker 1: and it was just my personal preference not to be

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Speaker 1: involved in it. The crime scene photos were leaked, There

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Speaker 1: was so much done. The Odenism theory I thought created

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Speaker 1: so much damage, and in my opinion, it broke the

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Speaker 1: gag order. So I just had a certain feeling about it.

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Speaker 1: But so there's obviously more than one kind of episode

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Speaker 1: in this docuseriies and the one thing we hadn't heard

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Speaker 1: from or hadn't heard of, maybe even haven't seen her.

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Speaker 1: I saw her in court every day, Richard Allen's wife,

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Speaker 1: and I felt for her. They were a high school sweetheart.

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Speaker 1: She showed her prom picture. You saw Richard Allen with

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Speaker 1: his daughter in the hospital when she was born, and

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Speaker 1: you just think. I was thinking while watching what happened,

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Speaker 1: what happened to this? And what makes someone do that?

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Speaker 1: Because I believe he is guilty. So I felt for her.

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Speaker 1: She was new in this The attorney's defense attorneys Rosie

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Speaker 1: Baldwin and Lesa said that he didn't get a fair trial,

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Speaker 1: that they weren't allowed to bring in the third party defense,

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Speaker 1: And now I'm seeing kind of it's kind of par

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Speaker 1: for the course in terms of what attorneys are hired

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Speaker 1: to do and what they do do. They have hearings

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Speaker 1: before a trial, and you're able to present your case

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Speaker 1: a third party kind of saying, look, it's not my client,

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Speaker 1: because here's why. But and Judge Gould did rule saying

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Speaker 1: you can bring in third party, but you have to

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Speaker 1: have proof. You can't just pick out a name with

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Speaker 1: nothing linking that person to the crime scene. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think, in fact, I know they didn't have that,

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Speaker 1: so they weren't allowed in to bring the third party

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Speaker 1: defense in. And so they talked about that in the

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Speaker 1: documentary and just how terrible Richard Allen was treated in

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Speaker 1: the prison that he was in, which I think he

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Speaker 1: should have been into jail like every other prisoner who's

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Speaker 1: innocent to proven guilty. But I don't believe that made

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Speaker 1: him confess more than sixty times. I don't believe that

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Speaker 1: played into his confessions.

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Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting you brought up the point

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Speaker 2: about pictures with him and his daughter, and I had

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Speaker 2: seen in the press that they were talking about how

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Speaker 2: he was his family man, how could he possibly do this.

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Speaker 2: But I think we saw something similar with the Golden

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Speaker 2: State killer. I mean, he was living with his daughter

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Speaker 2: at the time he was arrested, and he did all

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Speaker 2: those horrific things, saw all those women, And to think

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Speaker 2: that this guy is a father just living in a

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Speaker 2: house acting like a normal man.

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Speaker 3: It's very disturbing.

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Speaker 1: And I think that is the true at least for me,

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Speaker 1: fascination if that's the right word of how and why,

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Speaker 1: and it could be anyone. People who are monsters don't

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Speaker 1: look like that. We also saw it with BTK, and

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Speaker 1: I've interviewed Kerrie Rosson at Crime Conage. She said, Susan,

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Speaker 1: he would make me scrambled eggs and tell me don't

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Speaker 1: forget to fill up your tires with hair like a dad,

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Speaker 1: and then look what he was doing. So they can

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Speaker 1: part menalize sociopaths and psychopaths can compartmentalize and fool the

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Speaker 1: people around them. They're good at it.

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Speaker 3: I was shocked when I saw the Rex Huberman, the

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Speaker 3: recent one about him and his family was being interviewed,

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Speaker 3: and then I saw that there was this YouTube video

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Speaker 3: that was old footage that someone just so happened to

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Speaker 3: be recording him for his architect stuff. Yes, I saw

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Speaker 3: that and seeing him talk, I'm just like, oh my god,

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Speaker 3: this dad is. This guy's like a dad and he's

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Speaker 3: kind of like.

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Speaker 1: Dorky, cracking corny jokes, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just can't imagine him being some sexual deviant

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Speaker 3: pervert murderer. You know, it was just very weird to

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Speaker 3: put two and two together like that.

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Speaker 1: I know, and unless you put on kind of glasses

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Speaker 1: in life of believing everyone's capable of doing that, which

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Speaker 1: who wants to live like that? But I do know

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Speaker 1: that you never know. And I truly believe that Kathy

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Speaker 1: Allen believes Richard Allen is guilty. I do not guilty,

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Speaker 1: Sorry about that, not guilty. I believe that she believes that,

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Speaker 1: and maybe she has to believe that for survival. Imagine

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Speaker 1: knowing a guy for so long, since you're sixteen, and

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Speaker 1: then he's arrested for this. But keep in mind, for

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Speaker 1: those not that familiar with the Delphi double murder, it

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Speaker 1: happened in February twenty seventeen, and Abby and Libby were

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Speaker 1: off on a makeup snow day on a Monday. And

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Speaker 1: the town is so small, and when I was there,

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Speaker 1: it's such a different perspective. Meant to just say, oh,

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Speaker 1: a small town. I grew up in New Brunswick, New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: I know, it's forty five minutes from New York City.

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Speaker 1: I thought it was small because everyone knew their neighbors

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Speaker 1: when I was growing up on that block. But that's

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Speaker 1: not small clearly, and Delphi, Indiana is really that quaint

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Speaker 1: small town where everyone knew everyone. And so I'd say

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Speaker 1: about fifteen hundred men in living in Delphi at the time,

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Speaker 1: and who's off on a Monday and who's alibi is

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Speaker 1: the bridge the same time that the girls were down there,

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Speaker 1: much less the confessions. So but just to kind of

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Speaker 1: and there's been questions to me. I know that while

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Speaker 1: I was covering this and down there. Several times when

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Speaker 1: I was working with CNN the my father would even say,

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Speaker 1: how can they not catch this guy? Because Libby hit record.

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Speaker 1: One of the girls fourteen years old, Libby German hit

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Speaker 1: record on her phone and got the guy's voice saying,

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Speaker 1: guys down.

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Speaker 3: The hill, so smart.

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Speaker 1: This blurry figure behind Abby and he has a kind

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Speaker 1: of a blue jacket on a jeans and people are

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Speaker 1: but a blurry face. It's because it's far away, pixelated. Well,

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Speaker 1: the question was how do they not know who that is?

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Speaker 1: You would know your dad or your husband or your

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Speaker 1: friend the way they walk. It's because everyone in that

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Speaker 1: town looks similar. That's the truth. They just do. And

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Speaker 1: so the sketches were different during the investigation this was

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Speaker 1: bigger than anyone could have ever imagined. I interviewed sheriff

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Speaker 1: toab Lesbie, he was sheriff at the time, and he

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Speaker 1: just said, Susan, nothing like this happened here was like Mayberry,

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Speaker 1: Really you hear the cliche all the time? No one

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Speaker 1: locked their doors. No one locked their doors. So were

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Speaker 1: they in over their head in the beginning. Absolutely, with

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Speaker 1: all the tips coming in and all of that. But

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Speaker 1: I do believe they have the right person. And it's

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Speaker 1: still going on the argument of Richard Allen and that

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of hate and platforms out

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Speaker 1: there and opinions.

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Speaker 3: What's their reasoning to think that he's innocent? Like, what

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Speaker 3: are some of the are there? Is there anyone like

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Speaker 3: legit that thinks he's innocent or it's just it's just

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Speaker 3: like people.

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Speaker 1: I mean not, I don't think my algorithm is that.

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Speaker 1: I don't, but I know there's forms on Facebook and

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Speaker 1: different forms of that and read it so you can

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Speaker 1: find it if you look. I because there were no

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Speaker 1: cameras again, and maybe the defense did a good job

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Speaker 1: of kind of putting that out there of who it

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Speaker 1: could possibly be, because there was nothing none of his

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Speaker 1: DNA was at the scene. So there's that and people,

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Speaker 1: now you've heard it before, that they want the CSI.

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Speaker 1: Everyone thinks like, oh, if there's no DNA, then it

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Speaker 1: can't be him. Well it can. And he looked like

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Speaker 1: the sketch, the first sketch, which there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: talk of the second sketch and then back to the

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Speaker 1: first sketch. But it all had to do. I believe

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Speaker 1: that he saw what Gibby took on her phone from

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Speaker 1: that video was a still shot that was taken from

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Speaker 1: the video put on the news. That next day, he

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Speaker 1: calls Sheriff's office and says, I was down there. He

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Speaker 1: met an officer, Dan Doolan in a grocery store parking lot.

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Speaker 1: Back and forth, he said, and I think Dan Doolan,

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Speaker 1: no one again, no one thinks that this person would

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Speaker 1: be capable of that taking it down more is like

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Speaker 1: a witness. I was down there from this time to

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Speaker 1: this time. I didn't really see anybody. Okay, I saw

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Speaker 1: three girls, he said, but not Ivan Libby. Okay, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Files that away. Well in that tip some for some reason,

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Speaker 1: we don't know who did it. It's said cleared, and

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Speaker 1: it was filed away. Well, Kathy Allen, who I believe,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Kathy Shank, who I believe is the hero

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Speaker 1: in all of this. Because years had gone on and nothing,

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Speaker 1: no one knew who it was. It appeared to some

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Speaker 1: that he was getting away with this, the person that

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Speaker 1: did this. So she's a volunteer now, she was retired

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Speaker 1: and volunteering in Delphi and filing away. They were moving

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Speaker 1: from one office building to another. She's looking through the files,

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Speaker 1: finds Richard Allen statement, if you will coming forward and

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Speaker 1: saying I was here at this particular time. So she said, oh,

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Speaker 1: it says Richard Alan Whiteman. And Richard Whiteman on Alan

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Speaker 1: Drive I believe, and his name is Richard Allen, Well Whiteman,

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Speaker 1: what's the road? And she's from Delphi born and raised

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Speaker 1: and said, wait a minute, there's no Alan Drive or

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Speaker 1: this is weird and figured it out that it was.

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Speaker 1: Whiteman brings it to Sheriff Liggett and says you should

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Speaker 1: look into this because he said he was there on

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Speaker 1: that day. Here's a tip, and that was it. That's

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Speaker 1: what led to him.

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Speaker 2: That's incredible because that was five years later, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, almost six yep. Well a long time went by,

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Speaker 1: and because it was almost the perfect storm of the

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Speaker 1: gag order, which we see now more and more. I

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Speaker 1: feel like that's happening more, maybe because of all the

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Speaker 1: media outlets and how it could maybe tainted Jerrypool. So

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Speaker 1: there was a gag order. No one could really talk

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Speaker 1: the circumstances of the defense putting out this one hundred

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Speaker 1: and thirty six page ownism theory saying that the crime

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Speaker 1: scene looked a certain way, crime scene photos being leaked,

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Speaker 1: no cameras in the courtroom, no DNA at the scene,

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Speaker 1: it called it fueled the flames of do you have

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Speaker 1: the right guy?

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Speaker 3: It's scary that so he had he went to the

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Speaker 3: police and they had him from day one essentially, but

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Speaker 3: didn't recognize it. Like when the police interviews someone like

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Speaker 3: that and just put cleared. It's weird that they don't

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Speaker 3: have to give a full explanation as to why that

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Speaker 3: person was cleared.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been exactly. That's what kind of boggles the

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Speaker 1: mind of Wait a minute, Dan Doolan. But I believe

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Speaker 1: he's a fishing game officer, so everyone was kind of

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Speaker 1: it was all hands on deck, so everyone's involved, Like, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll take tips, and there were volunteers taking tips, and

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Speaker 1: there was no clear order of how to organize the

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Speaker 1: tips until later on. I believe that, I truly believe

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Speaker 1: that Dan Doolan just thought this is a dad who

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Speaker 1: was down there and didn't see anything. But right, it's

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Speaker 1: a major mistake. What I don't get, what I wish

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Speaker 1: would be answered is okay, even if you think that,

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Speaker 1: and then because only a still shot was released and

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Speaker 1: then the video was released, wouldn't Dan Doolin think back?

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Speaker 1: What about that one guy who said he was there

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Speaker 1: but again not trained for this. Nothing like this had

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Speaker 1: ever happened in Delfi, Indiana, so it's not like New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: If it happened there, I mean, the guy would have

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Speaker 1: been caught within a couple of days. It was. I

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Speaker 1: think you would think, small town, how many guys could

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Speaker 1: it be. I think that was a major deterrent in

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Speaker 1: the investigation because you think, well, that person's not capable

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Speaker 1: of that, and why why would he do it? And

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Speaker 1: everyone in that town a lot of people have the

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Speaker 1: same kind of blue jacket and blue jeans, and for

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Speaker 1: a while he did get away with it.

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Speaker 2: I had said that about the Idaho murders in the past,

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Speaker 2: because you know, it's like, obviously these people are trained

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Speaker 2: police officers and everything, but I don't think they're practicing

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Speaker 2: enough because it's such a small town and these things

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Speaker 2: aren't happening often, so they just don't have the knowledge

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Speaker 2: from other experiences to know exactly how to look into

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Speaker 2: these cases and the unique evidence to look at. And

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Speaker 2: even thinking back to just a conversation you had with

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Speaker 2: the potential witness and how that could be a huge

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Speaker 2: red flag. I think that's really important.

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Speaker 1: I thought the same thing. And one thing I did

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Speaker 1: learn in watching this documentary was that Becky, Libby's grandmother,

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Speaker 1: they didn't tell the families anything. So I knew that

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Speaker 1: there was a guy order, and I knew that was

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Speaker 1: strict and they were living by that, but I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that it was that strict with the family as well.

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Speaker 1: They didn't tell the family members how the girls were murdered,

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Speaker 1: that a sharp object was used. This is how Becky said,

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Speaker 1: she put two and two together. They said for the funeral,

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Speaker 1: bring a scarf for Libby and then that it took

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Speaker 1: a while, but it sunk in. It's like, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: you're not And I thought that about Coburger the investigation.

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Speaker 1: Now that I'm looking back on it, they didn't know

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Speaker 1: what to do. They were not experienced. I could tell

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Speaker 1: that with in the early days, and the gag order

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Speaker 1: was there as well. I heard Kaylee's father say he

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Speaker 1: didn't know how she died. They really weren't telling them anything.

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Speaker 1: So it seems to be the playbook, which I think

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Speaker 1: needs tweaking in terms of what they tell the families.

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Speaker 1: And I understand shutting off the media, but not completely

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Speaker 1: because whatever the goal is, I don't think it helps.

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Speaker 1: I think it hurts and fuels conspiracy theories. And also

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Speaker 1: I think that kind of canned statement of the communities

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Speaker 1: not in any danger. How do you know? How do

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Speaker 1: you know? Yeah? I think they say that to not

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Speaker 1: create obviously mayhem, but there was a.

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Speaker 3: For Idaho. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. And I even think Delphi like, if someone's capable

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Speaker 1: of doing this once Superintendent Doug Carter said that to me.

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Speaker 1: I said, and this is before anyone was arrested. I said,

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Speaker 1: do you think this will happen again? He said, if

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Speaker 1: they're capable of that, they're capable of doing it again.

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Speaker 1: So I understand you don't want to create panic. But

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Speaker 1: you have to be honest about this could happen. And

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Speaker 1: I understand even if Coburger was targeted in some way,

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Speaker 1: and I know that's a broad kind of statement. I've learned.

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Speaker 1: It's targeted, could be saw them walking by and maybe

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Speaker 1: like the way one of them looked at It doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily mean like a grudge against one particular person, I'm learning,

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Speaker 1: But uh, targeted doesn't mean that the whole community is safe.

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Speaker 2: No, definitely not. I mean that, you know, at the

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Speaker 2: beginning of the Idaho trial, I as a lay person,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, they got this guy, They're gonna have a

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Speaker 2: really solid case. And then after we watched that press

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Speaker 2: conference after the sentencing, I was shocked. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I really don't think they had as much solid evidence

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Speaker 2: as they saw.

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Speaker 1: Dan Is there at the presser, and I think you're right,

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Speaker 1: I do, And I think that's why the plea deal

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Speaker 1: was taken. Yes, not really consulting, like okay, yes, yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: and then it's like kind of jarring. And I've said

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Speaker 1: this before. If I've learned anything in all of the

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Speaker 1: cases I've covered is that different family members mourn differently,

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Speaker 1: and they're not all supposed to agree, and here there

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Speaker 1: were four families. In Delphi, there were two families, actually

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Speaker 1: six with the surviving roommates, it's getting their inputs going

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Speaker 1: to be different. And the way you could tell with

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Speaker 1: Kaylee's father, Steve, the way he was combated if he

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Speaker 1: wanted to fight this, and he even said during victim

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Speaker 1: impact statements once they got the news that next day,

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Speaker 1: said let's go to we got a rally. We got

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Speaker 1: to fight this. So fight was his way of doing this.

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Speaker 1: And with Stacy Chapin, who I got to meet, it

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Speaker 1: was more and I'm generalizing, but mourning of their son

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Speaker 1: and saying we can never bring him back. We don't

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Speaker 1: need to be around that monster. So they're different, They're obvious,

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Speaker 1: clearly different.

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Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by the Gross Room guys.

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Speaker 3: This week we did a celebrity death dis section on

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Speaker 3: Hull Cogan and we talk all about the long term

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Speaker 3: side effects of doing steroids for your entire life. And

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't even believe that people actually decide to do

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Speaker 3: these when you see some of the side effects, especially

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Speaker 3: men with the small testicles, that's something I would definitely

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Speaker 3: think that they wouldn't be into. Next week I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure what we're doing yet. We just are always waiting

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Speaker 3: for breaking news for any celebrities, and we have a

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Speaker 3: lot of things on the back burner for high profile

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Speaker 3: deaths as well. And don't forget tomorrow we have our

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Speaker 3: YouTube live. It will be our third one where we

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Speaker 3: talk about some stories that we don't talk about my

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Speaker 3: mother knows death, as well as anything else that our

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Speaker 3: members are interested in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, head over to the Grosserroom dot com now to

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Speaker 2: sign up. So you were in the room that day

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Speaker 2: when Brian Koberger was sent how what was it like

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Speaker 2: being in there? We are so terrified of him personally?

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Speaker 2: Is he a scary looking in person as we see in?

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Speaker 1: He is? But I will say in Delphi, when I

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Speaker 1: first went to a hearing and saw Richard Allen the

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Speaker 1: way he was looking, he was would stare. I was

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Speaker 1: sitting next to Libby's family and he just turned around

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Speaker 1: and glared at us. That was that I felt that stare? Yeah, Coberger,

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Speaker 1: it was more straight ahead he looked. He walked in,

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Speaker 1: he looked at his mom, smile like a half smile,

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Speaker 1: sat down. I looked to my right. So I'm kind

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Speaker 1: of three seats before his mom and sister, and I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of directly in the same line of seats, but

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Speaker 1: there's a kind of a middle section that's at and

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Speaker 1: I see Steve Gonzalvez shaking his leg like shaking Shakespeare

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Speaker 1: and scroll going through his phone, and you could tell

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Speaker 1: he was nervous that he was reading through what he

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Speaker 1: was about to say. And I waited all night in line.

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Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, sixteen hours, so I was delirious. I

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Speaker 1: was next to Surviving the survivor and Joel, and it

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Speaker 1: was good to have him and you get to meet

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Speaker 1: the people in the line. I thought that i'd go

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Speaker 1: around maybe four am, because that's when the court said

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Speaker 1: you could line up outside of the courthouse. You can't

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Speaker 1: camp all night. Well, then I get a call, you

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Speaker 1: got to go.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: The people are lining up at ten thirty at night,

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Speaker 1: so it was all night. So it was kind of

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Speaker 1: delirium set in. But I walked in and you're wide

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Speaker 1: awake when you see the family members and know how

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Speaker 1: much they wanted to do this and say things to

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Speaker 1: this guy, but no emotion from him. I did see

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Speaker 1: when it was Kalle's sister. I saw his jaw clenched

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Speaker 1: that got to him. Kally's father got to him also

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Speaker 1: in I've interviewed doctor g He's a body language expert psychologist.

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Speaker 1: He said to me that he believe Leaves, and I

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Speaker 1: believe him, and looking at it now that he kind

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Speaker 1: of he said, I hate saying this, Susan, but he

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Speaker 1: thrives off of women's pain. So the crying roommate Dylan

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Speaker 1: likes that the men confronting him doesn't like it doesn't

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Speaker 1: And it was clear the way he was kind of

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Speaker 1: and even if it's ever so slightly just kind of

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Speaker 1: leaning in a bit, and he tilted his head a

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Speaker 1: bit when Dylan was talking, almost connecting with her when

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Speaker 1: she was crying. It was sick, but I will say

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Speaker 1: it was the most We had a ten minute break

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Speaker 1: right after Kaylee's sister went and Olivia and I just

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Speaker 1: people clapped. I've never clapped in court, and everyone's clapping,

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Speaker 1: and then we walk out and I said to Steve,

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, but your family could do a masterclass

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Speaker 1: on victim impact statements. I mean, that was everything that

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Speaker 1: he hated she mentioned, and I just thought it was

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Speaker 1: so well done. And hearing their injuries now like in

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Speaker 1: the new documents, it came out and Steve said that

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Speaker 1: they heard that couple's hours before, like how many times

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Speaker 1: they were stabbed they heard before the victim impact statements

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Speaker 1: by a couple hours. If I heard that, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I would be able to not jump over

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Speaker 1: and jump on, like attack him. I don't the strength

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00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: they have to have to stand there and just look

433
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,760
Speaker 1: straight ahead. And Xana's aunt and uncle were there. It

434
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 1: was so touching. Mattie's father saying I've had addiction problems

435
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: and Maddie is the one that helped me. That was heartbreaking.

436
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 1: You know if you see it, if you saw it,

437
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 1: it was streamed, but to be there, it was just

438
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: and nothing from him, really nothing.

439
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: Do you think he was on medication or that's just

440
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 2: really how he is.

441
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: That's what my dad asked me. My parents aren't familiar

442
00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,239
Speaker 1: with that with the case at all, so they were

443
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,120
Speaker 1: watching knowing I was there, and that night my dad said,

444
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 1: he's got to be on something. And from everything I've

445
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 1: heard to legal experts, to people who know what prisoners

446
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: have that or not, said, no, I just think that's

447
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,199
Speaker 1: he has nothing left. And I think he admitted that

448
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: years before with the that he was seeing what is

449
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: that called snow or uh that? He yeah, said he

450
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 1: would be around his family members no feelings, and he

451
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: put them in caps none. So I just don't think

452
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 1: he has what we have.

453
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: I can't even imagine being there were We watched the

454
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:27,439
Speaker 2: whole thing on the live stream.

455
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: What did you guys think when you saw Calle's sister

456
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: go up, Well, she.

457
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 2: Needs to be an attorney.

458
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 3: She's incredible. Before she started talking, I said to Maria, listen,

459
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: like this is first. Obviously with the surviving roommates, that

460
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 3: like shook me. I need oh my god, Like I

461
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 3: was crying. I could I sleep for like two nights

462
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 3: after that. It was terrible.

463
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: Coburger's mother cried the most at that real interest.

464
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was wondering that actually what their reaction was.

465
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: Nothing to Olivia, to Kaye's sister, not much. Maybe anger

466
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,440
Speaker 1: not anger, but I can't say that. But nothing. But

467
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: with Dylan, the surviving roommate, it was wiping away tears

468
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: when she said, and I'm paraphrasing, will if you come back?

469
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: Will I survive am my next? And it made me wonder,

470
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,280
Speaker 1: maybe I'm just speculating and reading into this. Did they

471
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 1: feel in danger? In that house with Brian Goberger, because

472
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: remember one of the sisters, not the sister that was there,

473
00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: kind of maybe suspected that was it him when they

474
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 1: were looking for the same type of car he had.

475
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: You wouldn't think it might be your brother if there

476
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: weren't some weird signs. So but yeah, that exactly. I

477
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: felt like it was PTSD in trauma. I felt like

478
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: we could feel her pain. Did you guys feel the same? Oh?

479
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely.

480
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 3: I just never I mean I definitely I never got

481
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 3: on board with all the people that were attacking her

482
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 3: because I was like, clearly she saw something that scared

483
00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 3: the shit out of her, and she was scared in

484
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,679
Speaker 3: her bedroom with the door. I would have been the

485
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 3: same way. So I never was on board with that,

486
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 3: but just I didn't really think about her. Like what

487
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 3: really got to me was when she said she was

488
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 3: sleeping in bed with her mom and dad for a year.

489
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 3: I know, And I was just like, because I have kids,

490
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 3: and like they haven't been in my bed for a

491
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: very long time, and to think about an adult child

492
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 3: sleeping in your bed because they're that scared just broke

493
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 3: my heart for her, just thinking like, how is she

494
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: ever going to ever have a normal life, you know,

495
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 3: really like I don't know how you ever get over that.

496
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:40,199
Speaker 3: But unfortunately, I kept saying to Maria, this dude doesn't

497
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 3: care like that. I said, you need to like psychologically

498
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: mess with him. And then the Gonzalvez family got up,

499
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my god, I just I

500
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,199
Speaker 3: don't even know who could have done it better. They

501
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: took time a lot of time to research and just

502
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 3: like emotionally stab him to death, right like just cut

503
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 3: and cut and cut him. Like it was really I've.

504
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: Never seen anything like it. And I did hear her say,

505
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: I think it was Good Morning America interview. Hear say

506
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 1: she stalked the stalker, like she read everything she could

507
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 1: about him. I heard that she consulted with Anne Burgers.

508
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 1: I just think they did it. And I also heard

509
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 1: her say that she was a little hesitant about everything

510
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: she was going to say. And then she saw her

511
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: dad kind of turn the podium and he said it

512
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,919
Speaker 1: said on there, do not move. He turned it but

513
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 1: to see so she walked off. After Olivia went, everyone's

514
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: clapping and the hug her dad gave her. I saw

515
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: that victory like got him.

516
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, his nostras were flaring like he was, so he

517
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 3: was mad, and I mean, it doesn't make anything better,

518
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 3: but it is nice to know that maybe you could

519
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 3: hurt that like have that person feel a little bit

520
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 3: of pain that that you're feeling, you know.

521
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: I mean when she said basically and Steve said it

522
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: to you, you failed. You're not good. You brought us closer

523
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 1: together when she said you were a failure about mentioning

524
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: his teaching and also kind of coward the way he

525
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: did it, and everything about it was on point. You're right,

526
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 1: You're right about the research. She had to have done

527
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: hours and hours to get everything. It was on point.

528
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 2: She really needs to consider a career in law, because I,

529
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: like I always joke I was just joking with Cheryl

530
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: about this that I can never be an attorney because

531
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 2: when I get passionate about what I'm talking about, I

532
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: tear up and I cry.

533
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: Here's the crying attorney. Yeah exactly.

534
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 2: So I'm like to see somebody that's gone through this

535
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 2: horrific tragedy get up there and really give it to

536
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 2: her sister's killer was an incredible thing to see.

537
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: It really was.

538
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: Well. A lot of people were there were obviously because

539
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 3: we're talking about the Internet. There were a lot of

540
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 3: people that thought that it was really staged and dramatic

541
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 3: and attention seeking and things like that. And I'm sitting

542
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 3: there thinking basically like, oh, she's setting herself up to

543
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 3: have a podcast or something like that, which I think

544
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 3: like she should and she should right, right, because like,

545
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: how are any of these people ever going to have

546
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 3: a life? This is their identity now, unfortunately.

547
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: And if you hear I have a sister a year

548
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 1: and a half alter than me. If you hear your sibling,

549
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: your mother, you're what have you? Is stabbed so many

550
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: times she's unrecognizable, stabbed more than thirty times. I believe

551
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: it was thirty four. That's all I would have was anger.

552
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 1: That's not stage, that's human emotion. That fury, fury.

553
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 3: Do you think that? I mean, obviously the internet coincides

554
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 3: with all of these people thinking that the other side

555
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: is wrong and that they're innocent. Like there's a large

556
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 3: population of people actually on line that think that Brian

557
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 3: Coberger is innocent, which I mean at least the Richard

558
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 3: Allen one. I mean, I mean, I guess him admitting

559
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 3: it is the same as having DNA, essentially, right, But

560
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 3: it's just like with Brian Coberger. There's so many things.

561
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 3: Even though they never heard him.

562
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: Say it's not me. I never heard. He didn't even

563
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: say not guilty. His lawyer had to say it for him.

564
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 2: It didn't wasn't it no contest?

565
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was bizarre. I've never heard the guy. Well.

566
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 1: During that hearing, he said, I respectfully decline on spit.

567
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: But besides that, I mean, but I will tell you

568
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 1: it's real because I met three women in the line

569
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: behind me and Joel, and one of the women was

570
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: so nice. She drove me to my hotel to gotta

571
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: get changed and kinda grab something quickly to go back

572
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: to the line, and she was very gracious and nice.

573
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,800
Speaker 1: And I met a lot of very nice people. So

574
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in court and the one woman next to

575
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: me said do you think it? Before it started? Do

576
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: you think he's guilty? And I said yeah, yeah. She

577
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: goes the two women next to me don't, and I

578
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: go what. So I hung out with them all night.

579
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: They never mentioned it, but to me, I'm like, what what.

580
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have got in the car with one of

581
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: those people. They're they're they're at.

582
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 1: These were like women I know I shouldn't act so dramatic,

583
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: but they look like us, like, what do you mean?

584
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: And I believe they truly believe it. It's not for

585
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: attention that out of podcast. They don't want clicks, they

586
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: don't want they truly believe he's not guilty.

587
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: We had one person right on one of our videos

588
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: we were talking about him. You guys have nothing to

589
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 2: prove that he did this.

590
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: He is completely is it?

591
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 3: But I'm like, what do you mean?

592
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: There was DNA, it's a series.

593
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: And couple things in there, Like one woman said, Susan,

594
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: you have to read all the documents. Nothing points to him.

595
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: And maybe because we've had CSI on and all of that,

596
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: that they think the whole room's going to be in

597
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: a glow when they put that light on that I

598
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 1: don't know. And with at least with Coburger, I think

599
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: he and I just spoke about this. I was on

600
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace that there was planning so much so because

601
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: now that the documents are coming out, we're learning more,

602
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: and I think about my college experience, it never shocked

603
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: me that the surviving roommates didn't call nine one until later.

604
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 1: When you're in college, you're up all night, you sleep

605
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: in It's not like living like a I don't know,

606
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: a thirty year old. It's just different to me. So

607
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: I believe that. And I lived with three girls in

608
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: my college experience in Arizona. We had parties. If we

609
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 1: had parties, there were people in and out. We didn't

610
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: lock the door. It was kind of an off campus house,

611
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: but it was all campus people living around similar. I

612
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: wouldn't know who was at the party when I was there,

613
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:40,479
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't pick out one particular guy. And I

614
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: think maybe that remember early on when Kaylee said her

615
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 1: family said that she had a stalker, so everyone thought, well,

616
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 1: maybe she was the target. I think he was watching

617
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: that house. I think he targeted the entire house. Maybe

618
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: Kaylee and Maddie because they were on that side, but

619
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: I think he was behind those bushes. And there are

620
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: reports that Beth and that one of the surviving roommates

621
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: with Dylan said to the authorities, look, the dog was

622
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: acting a little weird. Kaylee's dog would run kind of

623
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: in the woods in the back and not come back

624
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 1: for a little while, and that wasn't like him. And

625
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: some people believe that he was befriending the dog, meaning

626
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: being around in that area because his phone pings in

627
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: that area twenty plus times, and that he was think

628
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: about it. He could have treats feeding the dog, so

629
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: thinking that's an obstacle when I get in that house

630
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: and the dog looks like a fluffy, loving dog, but

631
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 1: just being able to do that. I think he stalked

632
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: that house, and I think he planned on doing that.

633
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 1: I truly do, so I think I forget my point.

634
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: I talk so much. But when I think you're.

635
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: Saying, because people are saying that, they think he's.

636
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: Oh, he's thank you. So I think he could have

637
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: been dressed like Dexter underneath I'm sorry, like with everything

638
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: to have no DNA. But he messed up. Some people

639
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: think he left the knife thing on purpose. I don't

640
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: know if I do, but you're right. It was only

641
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: that small piece of that tiny bit of blood. And

642
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: if you think about how many times they were stabbed

643
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: and what the room that Xana was in looked like,

644
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: it is shocking that there wasn't more blood. But I

645
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: don't know. I think he planned for it. So I

646
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 1: think he changed clothes, maybe in the woods somewhere.

647
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 3: It is possible actually that he did leave that on

648
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 3: purpose because he did it and he was kind of

649
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 3: proud of it and wanted people to know that he

650
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: did it. And if he was if he kind of

651
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,359
Speaker 3: has that dead behind the eyes, like nothing to live

652
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 3: for a thing, he might have said, you know what,

653
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 3: I could go to prison and I could just become

654
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 3: famous for this and still do my study. I mean

655
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 3: he will, that's definitely happening. They're going to be people

656
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: knocking down his door to do interviews and books and

657
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 3: getting studied. He wants to be on the list of

658
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 3: Ted Bundy and BTK, you know, like and he's there

659
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 3: that he he's succeeded in that sense.

660
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was mentioned too during the victim of back

661
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: statements like you wanted to be this, you weren't good.

662
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 1: Steve said, they caught you the next day. They're working

663
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:14,759
Speaker 1: with Pennsylvania Police, essentially saying the next day, like you

664
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: didn't get away with this end. But I wonder if

665
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: he didn't leave that, how long it would have taken

666
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: would they have connected the car? I don't know.

667
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 2: It was really scary.

668
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 3: Well that I think that's that is what's really scary actually,

669
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 3: because if they didn't find that, I'm sure they would

670
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 3: have been able to connect the car because they they

671
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,799
Speaker 3: were checking to see, but not his car, right, I

672
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 3: mean other people had that car. How was he connected?

673
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 3: The only way that he was connected to it was

674
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: through the DNA, Yeah, because didn't At some point I

675
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 3: think someone pulled up the you know when when they

676
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 3: said they were looking for this car. Someone at his

677
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 3: university said that there was a car registered there. But

678
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 3: how were they ever going to connect that it was

679
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 3: his actual car? I know, because I.

680
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: Wonder if the dad knew when he was driving him

681
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 1: across country or maybe not. I feel like the family

682
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: knew he had problems and tried to help with I

683
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: felt like the father in things that he said in

684
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: the past, like he would say, my son is a

685
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 1: hard time making friends years before, and uh, but I

686
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: don't think your mind. I don't know. It was bizarre.

687
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: Every time I see more video of him being pulled over,

688
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: and there's just it just doesn't smile at all. It

689
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:32,720
Speaker 1: just is so weird to see.

690
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 3: Do you Another thing that I haven't heard too many

691
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: people talk about is that his sister was like some

692
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 3: like see your D list actress in some slasher film?

693
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 3: Did you know I'd heard that.

694
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,479
Speaker 1: I heard that. I didn't know if it was true.

695
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: I just heard that last night. I forget where I

696
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: saw it.

697
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 3: Yes, and it was about like college girls getting stabbed,

698
00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 3: like it is weird, it's really weird, Like that's true,

699
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 3: that's one hundred percent true. I just I read it.

700
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 3: I've heard it a couple of times, but I just

701
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 3: read it on a more legit like like people or

702
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 3: something did what's up with Brian Koberger's family? Like what

703
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 3: are the details of them?

704
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: Yeah?

705
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: And I was just like is that? Like why is

706
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: no one talking about that? Is it? How's that coincidental?

707
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: Like what's I know? It's just and when did he

708
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: get fascinated and why was he majoring in that? Like

709
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: how many years before was he planning this? Like is

710
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: that why? I don't know? And I wonder if he

711
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: will talk. I know that the judge at the end

712
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: said like he shouldn't get any attention, and you know,

713
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: if you want to study him, it shouldn't be public.

714
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 1: But I feel like he will talk.

715
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as much as we probably shouldn't give him,

716
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: you know, any more attention, of course, the media is

717
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 2: going to want to hear what he has to say

718
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,160
Speaker 2: if he reaches out to anybody, because everybody's going to

719
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 2: want the exclusive to see his side of the story.

720
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder what he does say, if he ever

721
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: says anything.

722
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 2: It's hard to say because how are we supposed to

723
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: trust that it's the truth and they're not. You know,

724
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 2: there is a lot of criticism from the prosecutor saying

725
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 2: there's nothing sexual about the murder when we.

726
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,760
Speaker 1: Know so strange. I was thinking about that. You can't

727
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 1: say that in everything that we have learned, I've learned,

728
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 1: I've learned through Cheryl. I asked Cheryl about Delphi.

729
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 2: It.

730
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 1: I always say, we always want to know why. It's

731
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,800
Speaker 1: the first thing we always ask who, what, where, when why.

732
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: We never really get a why where we say, oh,

733
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: that makes sense, unless we hear like a crime of passion, jealousy.

734
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 1: You say oh, but with something like this, there's never

735
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,960
Speaker 1: really a correct answer. But I believe it was sexually

736
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 1: motivated in Delphi. We heard he was meeting with doctor

737
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: Walla in the prison and he mentioned Richard Allen did

738
00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: mention something to that effect. But Cheryl said, as only

739
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 1: charlote girl, it always is like so for the prosecutor

740
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:06,279
Speaker 1: to say that it's like what I think, because it

741
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: could be and it could show itself in various ways.

742
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: I think he meant to say that they were not

743
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 2: sexually assaulted, but to say the whole murder was not

744
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 2: sexually motivated was just an error on his part, because

745
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: I mean, he probably went in his car and like, well,

746
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: they saw the porn he was watching on his phone.

747
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: And then I've heard, and I know this sounds weird,

748
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: but Joseph Scott Morgan said it on a panel I

749
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: was on, that that could be the sexual Yeah, with

750
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: the knife, like that could be something sexual to them exactly,

751
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: And I'm sorry.

752
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 2: I think Matt Murphy explains it really well in his book,

753
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 2: The Book of Murder, because I've been seeing him even

754
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 2: doing a lot of press Bell Kolberger too, where he's like,

755
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 2: nearly all these types of killings are sexual. Yeah, So

756
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: I think it was just I'm hoping he just misspoke

757
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,040
Speaker 2: and meant to say they weren't sexually assaulted, not the

758
00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:01,480
Speaker 2: entire case wasn't sexual.

759
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: But because there was a gag order, I would just say,

760
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: as you were already saying as little as possible, why

761
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,200
Speaker 1: throw that in exactly? Doesn't make anyone feel better. Xana

762
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: was stabbed, but I think more than fifty times. I

763
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: just I don't know. I felt like that it was

764
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 1: but they got what they wanted, and it was exactly

765
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: like that's life, that's the death penalty. You're dying in prison.

766
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: But I don't know, there's there's a whole entire psychology

767
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: about overkill people, right, Like, he didn't have to stab

768
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 3: any of them that many times because they all would

769
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 3: have died with probably if he knew what he was

770
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,839
Speaker 3: doing one or two stabs. Right, hate that they have, Yeah,

771
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 3: it's it's it's always seen in a crime of passion.

772
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 2: We'll think about Jody Aias and how many times she

773
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 2: stabbed Travis Alexander.

774
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,319
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was nuts. That was nuts. Yes,

775
00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: you're right about the overkill.

776
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: I mean, if he didn't know them, if he didn't

777
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 3: know them, like you don't, you just wouldn't do that

778
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 3: to somebody unless there was like something that about.

779
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:13,719
Speaker 2: It, you know, the fetish component because envy envy.

780
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: Ye, he hated them. He couldn't live their lives. He

781
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: hated them, That's my opinion. Without being a professional in

782
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 1: the field.

783
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: And probably even like Ethan like, he probably hated Ethan

784
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 3: because he just would want to be a guy like that,

785
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: Like he would want to have friends and beautiful women

786
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 3: around them like that in college and like that. He

787
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 3: just could never be that person. And maybe that was

788
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 3: something with him too, you know, like a lot of

789
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: times you're like, was this accidental that these people so

790
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:41,799
Speaker 3: happened to be there or not?

791
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,719
Speaker 1: You know, like, m yeah, and Ethan was sleeping as

792
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: we've heard, why did you kill him? Like why? It

793
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: was just And with doctor G who I interviewed, he

794
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: said he noticed a bit of jealousy when when someone

795
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: it was someone spoke on behalf of Bethany and she

796
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: said Ethan was Xanna's true love and it made everyone

797
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: believe that true love exists and he was just wonderful

798
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: and he wanted to be around him, and coworker didn't

799
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 1: like that.

800
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's that's really interesting. So you speaking of

801
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 3: the victims' families, you are doing, You're going to be

802
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 3: a crime. Come with us that we're excited to see

803
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 3: you and hang out. I just looked at the date

804
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 3: today and I was like, oh my god, this isn't

805
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,439
Speaker 3: a month, Like, yeah, I don't know what I'm gonna wear.

806
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: I thought that too. I'm like, oh my gosh, it's

807
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: gotta clothes.

808
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:36,520
Speaker 3: So you're doing a panel with the family, correct, yep,

809
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 3: some of the family members exactly.

810
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: And Livy's cousin Josh. His victim impact statement was amazing

811
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: and I was in the courtroom there. There weren't cameras,

812
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: but it was like from the heart. And I remember

813
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: that morning the printer wasn't working in the courthouse and

814
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 1: he's running around and he's about twenty two, I think, Anna,

815
00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 1: but he memorized it the night before and essentially saying

816
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:02,360
Speaker 1: there's a special place in hell for you, and just

817
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: it was from the heart. So the victim impact statements.

818
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 1: I while I was in there in the hearing Cobra

819
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 1: sentencing hearing and the impact statements there, I got a

820
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: text from Libby's sister Kelsey said, if you see another

821
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,040
Speaker 1: family members, tell them I'm thinking about them, because to her,

822
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: she's like, I have a special place for sisters.

823
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's so sad. I think it helps.

824
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,440
Speaker 1: And even if he doesn't feel a thing, let's say

825
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 1: he doesn't, I think it helps in the healing process

826
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: to get that to be able to say that, to

827
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,759
Speaker 1: be able to say that whatever you want to say.

828
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 2: Well, if our listeners are more interested in the Delphi case,

829
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: Susan has this incredible book. I'm going to link it

830
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 2: in the description of this episode. We are so very

831
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: excited to see you at Crime Con. Can you tell

832
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 2: everybody where else they could find you?

833
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: Yes. Started a YouTube channel called Headline Crime, and I'm

834
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 1: still learning everything about it. But I love being able

835
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: to be more like myself because as a news anchor,

836
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: you read the headlines and you're just trained in a

837
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,359
Speaker 1: certain way. And friends with Lauren who does hidden true

838
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,880
Speaker 1: crime and now I know you guys, but I always

839
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: think about, well, what do I like to watch and

840
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: what do I like to listen to? Because that's and

841
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: why am I drawn to that person? It's because you

842
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: want to hear real things, and you know, it's exciting.

843
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:27,799
Speaker 1: I get to interview people surrounding certain cases and ask

844
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: questions that I've always wondered about, and I'm learning things

845
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,840
Speaker 1: along the way, So it's exciting.

846
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

847
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen some of your videos and you're getting

848
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 3: good views and it's it's awesome. I love it.

849
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: Thanks. I'm crawling. I'm crawling out of the gate. But

850
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: I'm patient. They say you have to be patient.

851
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 3: You have to That's that's just how it consistent. It's

852
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 3: very hard now, Like I feel like, because I started

853
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 3: my Instagram like thirteen years ago, now wow, yes, and

854
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 3: it was just so easy. Back then. It was very organic.

855
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: It was just like you post stuff and it you know,

856
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 3: that was when stuff showed up on your feed instantly,

857
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 3: like Instagram, right, And then now it's like, sometimes I'm

858
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 3: in my feed. I just saw a post the other

859
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 3: day that was from someone from May.

860
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, I'm just like, I don't.

861
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:19,960
Speaker 3: Care about this. I want to know what the people

862
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: I'm following are doing today. You know, so so true.

863
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get her you're following at times You're like, oh, exactly.

864
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 3: And it's I mean, I follow Maria and I rarely

865
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 3: see her pictures, and then one I'll come up and

866
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 3: I go back on her account and I'm like, oh,

867
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 3: you've posted like six things I didn't see. You know,

868
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 3: it's just annoying. Its weird. Now YouTube's kind of the

869
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,120
Speaker 3: same way, you know, It's just not as all those

870
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,280
Speaker 3: people that got those millions of followers and and everything.

871
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 3: It's just like kind of not as easy to do anymore.

872
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: Right, you're right, You're right. But one thing I do know,

873
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: because I'm part of it different communities that I'm part of,

874
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 1: is that if you want to do it, and if

875
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: you have something to say or something to share, that

876
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 1: you will find people who enjoy listening to you. There

877
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: was a woman in the bathroom at the Coburger hearing

878
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: and she said, I've been thinking about starting a crime

879
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: channel and I said you should. Well, I don't know,

880
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,719
Speaker 1: there's too many people. I'm like, well, no one's you.

881
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:14,920
Speaker 2: You know.

882
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: If you want to start, start it. And that's the

883
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: beauty of having access and doing what you want to do.

884
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: And who cares if it's ten people, Yeah, eat you

885
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: and they like you, so just do it. That's my tidbit,

886
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: my two cents.

887
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: That's perfect, It's true. All right.

888
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 3: Well, thanks so much for being here today. It was

889
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 3: awesome and we're looking forward to hanging out too.

890
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 1: And we're Jersey, my peeps.

891
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,200
Speaker 3: I said that in the intro. I was just like, oh, yeah,

892
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 3: like she's from Jersey, so we hit it off right away.

893
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 1: Love it Jersey strong.

894
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 3: Yes, thank you, all right, we'll see it. Thanks, thank

895
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 3: you for listening. To Mother Knows Death as a reminder,

896
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,880
Speaker 3: my training is as a pathologists assistant. I have a

897
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 3: master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.

898
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 3: I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed

899
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 3: or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of

900
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 3: a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social

901
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 3: media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based

902
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 3: on my experience working in pathology, so they can make

903
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember

904
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 3: that science is changing every day and the opinions expressed

905
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 3: in this episode are based on my knowledge of those

906
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 3: subjects at the time of publication. If you are having

907
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 3: a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a

908
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,919
Speaker 3: medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent

909
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 3: care center, emergency room, or hospital. Please rate, review, and

910
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 3: subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or

911
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 3: anywhere you get podcasts. Thanks