1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:16,279 Speaker 1: Oh, Robert, that's how you start a podcast. This is 2 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: it could happen here. That's right, that's Robert talking. That's right. 3 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 1: Also with us accurate Christopher Wong and Garrison Davis do 4 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: your podcast. Yeah, So we're all gathering today on on 5 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: the day after what I think we'll go down as 6 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: the single most momentous moment in the twenty one century. 7 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: Will Smith slapped Chris Rock on stage at the Oscars. 8 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: So the entire world has pivoted from obsession with the 9 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: massive land war in Eastern Europe to discussing how Chris 10 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: Rock getting slapped is like the massive land war in 11 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: Eastern Europe or or eleven or nine eleven. Yes, yes, yes, 12 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 1: so it's a it's an amazing, like an unprecedentedly incredible 13 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 1: time to be on on Twitter right now. That said, 14 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,960 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about Nazi cat boys today. I've 15 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: seen everyone's post on the subreddit being like, why aren't 16 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: you guys giving blow by blows about the war in Ukraine. 17 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: Then this is this is pressing topic and we're going 18 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,559 Speaker 1: to talk about Nazi cat boys. Previous to the Chris 19 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: Rock slap. This is the most pressing topic of the 20 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 1: twenty one century. Um is why there's Nazi catboys, and 21 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: now we're going to talk about it well, because I mean, 22 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,919 Speaker 1: the roots of the crisis in Ukraine are the different 23 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 1: kinds of catboys. That's Alinsky and Putin are, yes, Robert 24 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: is fan art. Up, It's gonna be fine. I'm sure. 25 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll find some horrible fan art. Yes, of yeah, 26 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: we have. We have to figure out if if Putin's 27 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: ever watched Shelsing, and then we'll build to know. So 28 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: I don't know what that means, but okay, you're you're 29 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: about to find out. So great, So we we have. 30 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: We have gathered here today to talk about to talk 31 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 1: about the curious case of why they are Nazi capboys. 32 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: UM route throughout one TikTok and Twitter pushed from boys 33 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: and cat boys into kind of the cultural mainstream, plunging 34 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: these once much more niche subcultures out of the dark 35 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: depths of fortune, Reddit, Tumbler and discord and uh the 36 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: latest rebirth of these kind of gender bending communities. It's 37 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: pretty socially progressive and affirming. Uh. Like generally most most 38 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: fem boys catboys are are lefties. There's a whole bunch 39 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 1: of like Twitter communists. I'm sure there's a whole bunch 40 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: of cat boys who like stalling or something. Um, but 41 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: they're they're generally more generally more on the left. But 42 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: but but for for those who've dug deeper into the 43 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: history and origins of these Internet subcultures, you may have 44 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: found a dark, racist, and hateful underbelly. So we're going 45 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: to talk about that today. I do have to note, Garrison, 46 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: as soon as you said that, I found a Stalinist 47 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: catboy the Twitter. It's an incredible account. So that their 48 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: their background image for their Twitter account is a picture 49 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: of Dang Xiaoping and the Ayatollah of Iran having a meeting. 50 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: Their their PfP is a lavender haired uh, it's like 51 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: a it's like an anime pic avatar catboy. Yeah, with 52 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:38,320 Speaker 1: like a Soviet hat and then Marxist Leninist bisexual catboy 53 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: stalin did nothing wrong at North Korea. Stand incredible. This 54 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,119 Speaker 1: is this is this is why the Left will never win. 55 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: That's perfect. I'm pretty sure this is like illegal in 56 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: those countries. It's it would have had this person shot 57 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: in the second someone tried to describe a catboy to 58 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: Joseph Stalwin, he would have had this person executed. Oh yeah, 59 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: oh wow, yeah, I see I see it now, that 60 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: is that is intense. You know. The thing is, this 61 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: type of thing is not going to be uncommon. We're 62 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: gonna be again, We're gonna be going into like actual 63 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: fascists who are also cowboys, and obviously they would have 64 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: been would have been killed for being degenerous as well. 65 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 1: But now we're gonna kind of talk about how this 66 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 1: how this kind of came to be. And I've been 67 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: writing this for like over a year. Actually, I've interviewed 68 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: a few people for this that I've kind of contributed 69 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: to the script. And initially this was going to be 70 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,720 Speaker 1: conceived as a video. Um, and you can't only talk 71 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 1: about these things in a video format without dressing up 72 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: like a silly character. So I am. I'm wearing a 73 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: very actually a very very high quality catboy outfend right now, 74 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: which the audio we'll just have to you'll have to 75 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 1: you'll have to see it through the audio, So good 76 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: luck with that synesthesia. Um yeah, yeah, yeah, so you are. 77 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: At the same time, You've done that enough that I 78 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: don't know that anyone really noticed. I've never dressed as 79 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: a cat boy for recording, before you addresses something. Every 80 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,520 Speaker 1: other recording that's true, I addressed as something. I generally 81 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: addresses something. So first section one, Section one? What is 82 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: what is a catboy? What? What is what is this? 83 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: Um So? But first of all, of a few ground 84 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 1: rules will be circling back too often. UM One, not 85 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: all catboys and femboys identify as LGBT or queer. Um 86 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: and two, gay people can still be racist. These are these, 87 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: These are these, These are two points that we're gonna 88 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: be coming back to over the course of these of 89 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: these Deep Night episodes. So first things first, let's let's 90 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: just define what a cat boy is for all of 91 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: the boomers in the audience. Um And if you are, 92 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: if you are a boomer listening to this, how why 93 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: how did you find this? Why are why did you 94 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: choose to listen to Garrison? The instant I became a 95 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 1: boomer was the first time you tried to describe explain 96 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: cat boys to me, Like I I suddenly developed a 97 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: strong opinion on HRC because of me. You so most 98 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: administration joke, but most simply m a cat boy? Is 99 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 1: this what I'm doing right now? So someone who is 100 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: kind of kind of boyish who who? Who? Who sometimes 101 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: enjoys dressing in cat like apparel. I guess it's like 102 00:06:25,920 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 1: cat ears. It is different from furries from and we 103 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: will we will get into this, um. I mean, but 104 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: I'm I'm definitely less boyish than I first was when 105 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: I wrote this like a year ago, now that I'm 106 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: on recreational estrogen. But nevertheless, someone who's a boyish and 107 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: dresses or likes to dress in cat like kind of 108 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: outfits generally on an anime trajectory of aesthetics. Uh now 109 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: this is this is this is different from furies from 110 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 1: multiple reasons. The physical cat like attributes on catboys are 111 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: mostly confined to ears and pause sometimes with tails, but 112 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: it's it's iffy um. Whereas you know, furries like to 113 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: have like the full first suit thing going on, whereas 114 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: catboys they still have like human faces and they wear 115 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: like human clothes. So this is actually a very key difference, 116 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 1: which will lots of made costumes like and yes a lot. 117 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: And the other other big kind of recurring trope um 118 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: is that is that well they well catboys you usually 119 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: wear clothes. Is that they usually dress up in something 120 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: similar to like a French made outfit um or or 121 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: like different outfits like anime girls will were so like 122 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: the tennis skirt thing, but generally on a made outfit 123 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: to anime trajectory. So despite, despite the animal ears, right 124 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: despite like the furry cat eers, the catboy or cat 125 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: girl thing has much more in common with the fenboy 126 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: community than the furry community and a lot of instances 127 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: but more more more on that later. So after some 128 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: initial research into the Nazi catboy meme, I decided it 129 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: would be useful for tracing back the roots of this 130 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: kind of odd online phenomenon to broaden the scope of 131 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: research to include fem boys as well, uh, which is 132 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: succinctly just cat boys without the cat part. It's like 133 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: boys who or generally male identifying people who dressed in 134 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: like feminine ways. Um, not a lot of fen boys 135 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: will turn out to be trans and not all of 136 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: them do a lot of fen boys identify as straight. 137 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: But you know, I like to wear you know, boys 138 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: generally kind of in the twink variety who likes to 139 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 1: wear skirts, dresses, whatever, So I a much of it, 140 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: a dissection to which gets a little bit more silly. 141 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: Um but but yeah, so M boys. It's excited this 142 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: This doesn't get less silly as we go on. But 143 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: but yeah, catboys, feen boys. Feen boys identify as male 144 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: dress up in more stereotypically feminine ways. There's a lot 145 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 1: of similarity and crossover between fen boys and catboys. Um. 146 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: But since fenboys have more of an established online history, uh, 147 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: including them in the research seems like the best way 148 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: to kind of dig into like the fascist femboy nazi 149 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: catboy idea. So, speaking of section two, the racist femboy 150 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: meme the past the past few years, there's been kind 151 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: of a growing meme and perception across social media that 152 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: femboys are like really racist, um and just kind of 153 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: pretty fascy in general. Um, even really homophobic and transphobic 154 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: and a lot of in a lot of senses, as 155 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: much as a homophobic or transphobic femboy may see them 156 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: contradictory at first. But again, more more on this later. Um. 157 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:25,079 Speaker 1: So when I'm talking about this going forward, I'm probably 158 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: gonna be mixing words and terms like nazi and fascist, 159 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: all right or far right now not not all of 160 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: these racist femboys are what I would call Nazis by 161 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: any means, um and not not not all advocate for 162 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: even joke about genocide, but there were absolutely recruitment attempts 163 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: from self described Nazis. And you know, the line between 164 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: jokes and actual beliefs is intentionally very foggy in this 165 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 1: kind of internet subculture. So I'll kind of be lazily 166 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: lumping together everything from racist to far far right wing 167 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: folks for the sake of simplicity, because it's all like 168 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: in the same spectrum. And like I mentioned at the beginning, 169 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: not all femboys and cat boys identify as being queer 170 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: um and gay people can still be racist. These there 171 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: are these are points we're going to be circling back 172 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: to a lot. So at this point, the alright femboy 173 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: meme has kind of actually or overshadowed the actual phenomenon 174 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 1: of it happening. Right in the past few years, the 175 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: popularity of leftist fem boys has skyrocketed, Yet if you 176 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: still do digging on like Twitter or Discord, you can 177 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: indeed fed users who appear to be fem boys but 178 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,439 Speaker 1: are also everything from racist to just openly fascist. Now, 179 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: naturally that leaves people wondering, how can one have such 180 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: a kind of contradictory lifestyle and belief system, which leads 181 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 1: us to Section three. The Internet and that's it. That's 182 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 1: kind of that's kind of the answer. We that's we 183 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: can kind of pack it up here. Um. We that's 184 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: the answer. It's the Internet. That's that's why that that's 185 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: why this has happened. That's what I'm getting out of this. Yeah, sure, whatever, whatever, 186 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: it's it's Garrison. Are you you are? Have you been 187 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: caught up on why people say al Gore invented the Internet? 188 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 1: On where that joke came from? You you have to 189 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: you have to remember Chris Carrison's Oh no, So there 190 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: was like al Gore was among a bunch of different 191 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: people who like voted to fund some of the different 192 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: government kind of projects that became the Internet, right, like 193 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: you have the r pnet and ship all that stuff. 194 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: Like he was one of the people who like pushed that. 195 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: And then in the debate with George Bush while running 196 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: for president in uh two thousand, he uh like basically 197 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: made some claims that you could uncharitably translate as him 198 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: saying that he invented the Internet. Um, he didn't actually 199 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: say that. It was more like he was saying, well, 200 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: I you know, supported from an early stage the development 201 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:53,839 Speaker 1: of the Internet, but it got turned into like al 202 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: Gore claimed to have invented the Internet because it was funny. 203 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: Ab yes, and and so now that that's that's the 204 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: joke is even though he didn't really he just was 205 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: not you know. But anyway, so we can we can 206 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: blame Nazi cowboys on on al Gore. Absolutely well, that 207 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: that does it for us today. Um you can find 208 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: us on Wait okay, we still have a we still 209 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 1: have like half an episode to do. Alright, well, here's 210 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: here's speaking of of of al Gore and the Internet. 211 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:38,760 Speaker 1: Here's some ads brought to you by the Internet. Ah boy, 212 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: those ads were so good they made me wanna be 213 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 1: a cat. Okay, all right, Wow, moving on. If you're 214 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: in any way familiar with facism, you are probably aware 215 00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: that one of it's more consistent traits is that it's 216 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: notoriously ideologically inconsistent. Um So, for for this project, I 217 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: interviewed multiple people who have a more personal history in 218 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: the cat boy and femboy online communities than I do. 219 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: Um So, those interviews, plus my own online digging through 220 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:16,800 Speaker 1: like hundreds of threads from various form websites. I've I've 221 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: literally looked through hundreds hundreds of the cat boy posts 222 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: on Fortune. But doing doing all that has been very 223 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: helpful for understanding kind of this intersection of politics and subculture. 224 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: And since I did all this research, you don't need 225 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: to so there you go. Um. But one of the 226 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 1: first kind of big takeaways I had after the research 227 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: and interviews is that the Nazi femboy cat boy thing 228 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: is not actually unique at all in terms of Internet radicalization. 229 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: It just has some aesthetic abnormalities that can confuse on 230 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: liquors or normalise, which makes the internet phenomenon seen more 231 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: outlandish than that actually is. But before we dig deeper 232 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,200 Speaker 1: into this litter box of hate, I would like to 233 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: divide the femboy and catboy kind of racism spectrum into 234 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: actually to two assistinct categories. First, um, we have we 235 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: have type one, which I'm calling the fem fast people 236 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 1: who are initially into the femboy community and aesthetic and 237 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: then got introduced into far right politics online. And then 238 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: we have type two, the fasci fem people who were 239 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: already into far right politics and only then got introduced 240 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,960 Speaker 1: to the femboi community online. So I usually break down 241 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: lots of instances of fascists mixing with various subcultures into 242 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: these like similar like to two categories of people starting 243 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: off with politics and then getting into the culture, and 244 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: people starting off with the culture then getting into politics. 245 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: I think it's actually kinda it's useful for understanding a 246 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: whole bunch of how there's like differences between different types 247 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:43,520 Speaker 1: of fascist people in various subcultures. So these two types 248 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna be using to help to help 249 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: talk about these different kind of strains of of the 250 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: fascist femboy. For for now, we're gonna focus on the 251 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: first one, the fem fast. So let's let's let's wind 252 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: let's wind the clocks back. Let's say a decade. Broadly, 253 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: gay people can't get married, and to most kids, trans 254 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: people are ostensibly a myth um. So what kind of 255 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: person is going to become a femboy in this in 256 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: this type of in this type of environment. Simplest answer 257 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: is like a certain sect of social outcasts and anime nerds, 258 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: as well as some people who maybe don't consciously know 259 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: or accept that they're queer yet really the only way 260 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: to get initially exposed to the fembo aesthetic back then 261 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: was via anime, manga, hanti porn, and you know, select 262 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: video games specifically multiplayer games, and random and internet browsing. 263 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: Right this, this is this is how you're gonna get 264 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: exposed to this type of aesthetic. In fact, one of 265 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: the probably the oldest example of a Nazi catboy is 266 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: from an anime called hell Singh where they had they 267 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,960 Speaker 1: had this Nazi catboy character who is the who was 268 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: the source of a lot of Nazi catboy memes on 269 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: four Chan, like the it's very very popular meme figure um. 270 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: And this is I think a lot of where that 271 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: aesthetic tied to fatchism actually really start from. But of 272 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 1: course there's a lot of fascist fans of anime in general, 273 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: so that the type of aesthetics that the type of 274 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: aesthetics of femininity that animey kind of presents get used 275 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: by fascism a lot. Even among like they're more like 276 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: a cottage core styles, it's still of that very like 277 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 1: patriarchal um type of femininity that is popular among Japanese animation. 278 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: So now the reasons that someone might be drawn to 279 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: this specific community can vary from person to person. Maybe 280 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: they just don't feel as connected to like the hyper 281 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: macho masculine style that American culture promotes. Maybe it's a 282 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: way to get attention and validation, or maybe you just 283 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: like wearing skirts or find it kind of hot. There's, there's, 284 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: and there's there's always the possibility that someone is transfer 285 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 1: gain they just don't fully know it yet. This is 286 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,120 Speaker 1: the case with a lot of these people actually, Um, 287 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 1: but some of some of you may be surprised to 288 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: hear that before our modern TikTok femboy craze, most femboys 289 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: did self identify as straight ancests. Uh. There is a 290 00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: lot of reasons for this, including like increased to aphobia 291 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: and transphobi back then, plus, like non binary was hardly 292 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: even the thing like culturally at that at that point. Um. 293 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: One of the people I interviewed for this project talked 294 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: about how some of the sis straight fem boys he 295 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: knew back then now do identify as trans or queer. Um, 296 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: but back then that wasn't really the case. Um. The 297 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,959 Speaker 1: other person I interviewed for this called themselves the sis 298 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: gender femboy at the time of the interview, but has 299 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: now since come out as trans so like it says, 300 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: it is definitely a recurring pattern, but it's not a 301 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: thing for everybody, Like there is definitely like a lot 302 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: like a lot of these people do call themselves straight 303 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: even still now um, and that is something that a 304 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 1: lot of kind of people don't have a don't have 305 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: the easiest time kind of comprehending. That's I'm gonna what 306 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna kind of try to get into. So let's 307 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,719 Speaker 1: let's let's say you're a kid, young teen and like eleven, 308 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: you're getting into anime and video games. What kind of 309 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: websites are you gonna gravitate to? Right, You're gonna gravitate 310 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: to read it, You're gonna gravitate to four Chan especially 311 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,679 Speaker 1: in right. These are the these are kind of the 312 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 1: cultural meccas of of those types of type type types 313 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: of subcultures. So what is prelevant on these websites? Well, 314 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 1: on four Chan we have a slash b which is 315 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: their random channel um which also has a not Safer 316 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: work designation, and it's was often flooded with femboy picks 317 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: UM and since there are so few female users of 318 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 1: that site, you see a lot of hentai and occasionally 319 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: boys dressing up like not safer work female anime characters, 320 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: just because there's people still like femininity, but there's so 321 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 1: few actual girls using those sites that the femininity that 322 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: you see is either through anime or it's through kind 323 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: of cross dressing. Um. And then there's also the slash 324 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: d page which is just completely dedicated to Henta I, 325 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: So you get a lot of a lot of a 326 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: lot of that type of like anime style of femininity 327 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: through kind of that that type of appropriation and and 328 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: fetishization on the slash d page. So there's there's a 329 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: decent chance that anime and gaming nerds that browse their 330 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: interests online will get exposed to fen boy staff at 331 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: some point. Right nowadays it's discord, used to be four Chan, 332 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: used to be Reddit, So it becomes this type of 333 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: figure right infinity loop of people who are exposed to 334 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: something and then start propagating it and get exposed to 335 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: new people to it, and it's just like continuous cycle. 336 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: Because if if you're a kid who discovers they kind 337 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: of like this super niche, almost taboo thing, where are 338 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:22,879 Speaker 1: you going to go to find other like minded people 339 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: that you're gonna go back to? Online multiplayer gaming, Reddit 340 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 1: and four chune. It's it's it's it's all. It's all 341 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: the same circles. So if if even if you don't 342 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: get exposed to it in places like four chune, you're 343 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:37,239 Speaker 1: probably gonna end up there or somewhere similar regardless. And 344 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,679 Speaker 1: the other other and and the other thing that's important 345 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,640 Speaker 1: to talk about I which is going to talk about 346 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: like how how the femboys start getting into politics is 347 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: like who else is very prevalent and actively recruiting on 348 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: these types of sites with on like on multiplayer gaming, 349 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: on Reddit and four chan. It's it's nazis right that 350 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,479 Speaker 1: the people who are who are into very far right 351 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: politics try to mask trying to mask some of their 352 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: beliefs initially, and like humor and memes. You know, a lot, large, 353 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:07,960 Speaker 1: large part of Internet radicalization is done through is done 354 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,159 Speaker 1: through memes, especially especially back in there's like so so 355 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: many like memes. A memes as a social and recruitment tool, 356 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: we're very very common, especially on like you know, if 357 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: you're on like an image board, that that's the whole 358 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: point is that you're sharing images. Um. So a big 359 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: part of this overrepresentation of racists in the femboy community 360 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: was simply the online proximity between these groups of people, 361 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: between the femboys and then the fascists on four Chan 362 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: or have they read it in certain online games, whether 363 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: they be like Second Life, whether it be like MMS. 364 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 1: You know, all these types of places, and in any 365 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: place that you can design your own character as well, 366 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: You've got got a lot of this type of like 367 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,199 Speaker 1: anime femboy type thing, because a lot of a lot 368 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: of these games that are main in Japan can like 369 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: give like more feminine options for like male characters, or 370 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 1: just have like Copboy like years and stuff available as 371 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: a cosmetic option. So a lot a lot of this 372 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: fetish fetishization that we see on four Chune and on 373 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: and in the early two thousands and tens is now 374 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,239 Speaker 1: is now applied to Discord. Like this you did kind 375 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: of carry over for trans obviously not the kind of 376 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: cultural behemoth that it used to be. A lot of 377 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: this stuff just happens on Discord now um where you 378 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: can kind of cultivate online communities that are more self contained. 379 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: So throughout the entirety of the fascism was pretty successful 380 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 1: infesting among nerd spaces, right nerds and geeks of many types, 381 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: whether that be gaming or anime, or these more like 382 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: esoteric communities esotericism like niche um. But these communities generally 383 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: they attract people who are more disenfranchised, right, and them 384 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: boys generally feel disenfranchised in one way or another, which 385 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,959 Speaker 1: just pushes them into these, you know, less mainstream subculture. 386 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: At this point, they could be pretty easy targets for 387 00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: fascist recruiters to start suggesting that maybe some of their 388 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: problems in the world are actually coming from feminism, immigrant 389 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: stealing jobs fromative action, and slowly leading into talk of 390 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: like i Q and racism and anti semitism. So for 391 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: those who famil these ideas initially like abhorrent, uh, it 392 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: can be explained at all this talk and simply etgy 393 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: jokes in irony attempting to trigger the enormies, which was 394 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: a big part of that type of propagation of this 395 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: type of humor and then politics masses humor on these 396 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: sites and on these like gaming chats. This isn't unique 397 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: to fem boys or cathboys in any way. Right. The 398 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: more people I interviewed and the more kind of old 399 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: forms that I read, I started to actually see stuff 400 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 1: that seemed much more familiar. Um, And there's a lot 401 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: of parallels between this far right femboy thing and the 402 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: far right fur phenomenon, which I know Robert and the 403 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: Worst Your Ever podcast put together two episodes that do 404 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: a great job kind of talking about the far right. 405 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: The only real episode of the Worst Year Ever that 406 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 1: we ever got to do. Yeah, yeah, it could you 407 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: because I guess just briefly kind of talk about the furry, 408 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: the furry kind of thing and how that because there's 409 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's even though these cultures are 410 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: different between fen boys and furries, the tactics that fascists 411 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: used to get into these communities is exactly the same. 412 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: Um and it kind of plays on the same same tropes. Yeah, 413 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: I mean it's weird, so you've got I think it 414 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 1: kind of hearkens to the fact that like whenever you 415 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 1: have a fandom, no matter kind of what the fandom 416 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: is about or the message of the media it's about, 417 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: you're going to have like Nazis in it. Um And 418 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: and that's obviously like Star Wars, right where the point 419 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: of Star Wars is Empire, bad Empire. Basically space Nazis 420 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: bad guys and there's a whole bunch of people who 421 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: have just like made that into their life and get 422 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 1: tattoos of the imperial sigil or whatever on their fucking chess. 423 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: Or you've got like Disney movies where like there's these 424 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: there's weirdos who will take far right nationalist messages at it. 425 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: Like every like everything everything has its Nazis. The punk community, right, 426 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 1: punk music is supposed to be anti authoritarian um and 427 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: kind of inherently left wing, but there's Nazi punks, so 428 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: like it's all like every community has their Nazis, and 429 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: the Furies are no different. One of the things that 430 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: does make the Furries different is, I think because of 431 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: how and this this is something probably you're a little 432 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: too young, and and I guess a lot of our 433 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,479 Speaker 1: audience may have missed out on aspects of but like 434 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,439 Speaker 1: early on in the Internet, and I'm talking like the 435 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: first decade of actual Internet culture, from like ninety six 436 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: to two thousand five or six, which is really the 437 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: first decade of like mass Internet culture, the punching bag 438 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,360 Speaker 1: of the entire Internet was was Furries. Like they were 439 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: the people that like it was the safest to make 440 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: fun of um jokes about like killing them all sorts 441 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,480 Speaker 1: of really fucked up shit. Um. And so I think 442 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: they developed kind of this um very strong defensive impulse 443 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: within the community. And so while every subculture has their Nazis, 444 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: the Furries have gone kind of the furthest in documenting 445 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: and um working to like ostracize those people. And they've done. 446 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,199 Speaker 1: They're on the level with like punks in terms of 447 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: the degree to which they have like that has become 448 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 1: kind of a guiding principle for a lot of Furries. Um. Yeah, 449 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: is that kind of what you're looking for? Yeah, because 450 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: a big a big and the thing you mentioned about 451 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 1: like Furries being such the punching bag, that's something that's 452 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: that's something that Nazis even definitely kind of grasp onto 453 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 1: as a way to do grooming and recruitment. Right is 454 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: if if if if, if fascists can present themselves as 455 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,440 Speaker 1: friends to these people who are always punched down upon, 456 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: then they can kind of put them into their in groups, 457 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: right they can They can support them, give them, give 458 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: them a sense of validation, and give them a sense 459 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: of a community. Tell them like that they they they belong. 460 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: Your your your always going to be kicked out of 461 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: like like real life social groups. Right, you can only 462 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: exist here with us. We're gonna we understand you. Like right, 463 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: they can. They can kind of foster this thing, even 464 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,119 Speaker 1: though obviously it's dealing with things that are not the 465 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 1: most like, not the most like systems straight thing in 466 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: terms of like regular heterosexuality. Um got a lot of 467 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,200 Speaker 1: a lot of furries are straight, but like in terms 468 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: of like the way they approach that is is definitely 469 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: different than a lot of regular people. But they so 470 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: white cremacists and different fascists can like grasp on to 471 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,400 Speaker 1: this gr respond to this kind of disenfranchisement and offer 472 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: this sense of community. Um, be you know, be very 473 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: friendly initially, be being very being very kind of open 474 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: these people and start and start you know, the term 475 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: would be like red pilling them, right, um to talk 476 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: about that a lot of their social issues are actually 477 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: you know the fault of Stw's talking about those, you know, 478 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 1: all of these Jewish bankers. You know, it can start, 479 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: you can start crafting the propaganda very carefully if you're 480 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: friends with them first and then only start slowly introducing 481 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: them into your more extremist kind of view of politics. Yeah, 482 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: it's just no one's really surprised when an anime nerd 483 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: or like a capital G gamer starts spewing far right 484 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: talking points, but when a femboy does, that just seems 485 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: off because like, aren't they also a degenerate right like 486 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 1: like it's like what, there is a bit of a 487 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance there, um and like yes and no, Right, 488 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: you may be over estimating some people's commitment to the 489 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: fascist cause here, because a recurring pattern I found when 490 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 1: talking to people with history in these communities, especially if 491 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: they're more of like the fem fashion variety, right, starting 492 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: up starting off with them boys headaches, then getting into 493 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: being racist and and and like like pretty racist and 494 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: then getting into fascism. Is that look looking back these 495 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: people and they say, like themselves and others, all of 496 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: their kind of parenting of racist and fascist talking points, 497 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: especially online, was like they claim much more due to 498 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 1: having to like fit in with these with these already 499 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: pretty reactionary online spaces um and make friends at seemingly 500 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: one of the few places that people with similar interests gather. 501 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: You know, some people deep down don't really care about 502 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: the political beliefs that much, and we're more still looking 503 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: for a community and it just so happened that back then, 504 00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:18,160 Speaker 1: in the early the places where these communities of outcast 505 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: found each other were also places that other outcasts used 506 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: racism as a lazy, attention seeking shock comedy and like 507 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: the triggering of normies, which was basically like a sport 508 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: on these on on these forums. Now, obviously this is 509 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,159 Speaker 1: not excusing any horrent behavior and or horrible things, is that? 510 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: But that whole idea, plus the active like grooming and 511 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 1: the active recruitment from Nazis made the nerdy outcast to 512 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: fascist pipeline that we see today. That's really how it 513 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: built up and became such a powerful tool, you know, 514 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: in around um. But there is there is the other. 515 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: All of this just generally more applies to the people 516 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: who were into fend boys addicts and then got kind 517 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 1: of railroaded into into nationalism and too fascism. Right, it's 518 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: because they they're fem boys on these platforms. There's also 519 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: racists on these platforms, so these things start to kind 520 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: of mix. But there's still that other type of femb 521 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: boy nazi um, the one who started off online with 522 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: far right views and then discovered fem boys and started 523 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 1: to feel things well, we're starting by talking about them 524 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: next on on on part two. But I guess does 525 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: anyone anyone have any any questions at least to close 526 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: off part one about the more kind of fem fast 527 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: variety of people who are generally kind of more regular politically, um, 528 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: but are into into like femboy and cowboy kind of 529 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 1: aesthetics and then and then get put into into into 530 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 1: more reactionary ideas. Mm hmmm, uh stay off the internet. Yeah, 531 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: that's not a question. But yes, that is that is 532 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: a that is a good uh, there's a good mission statement. 533 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, in terms of like, in terms of like 534 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: the you know, this topic can whenever whenever I bring 535 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: it up, I thought of a lot when I've tried 536 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: to explain it to people, there's always a bit of 537 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: like that, how that doesn't make any sense? And I'll 538 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: be getting into some of the more kind of semantics 539 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: of it um in in part two, but at least 540 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: at least for like the initial initial kind of dive 541 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: into how the online community aspect is used as such 542 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: a powerful tool for people who are feeling so alone 543 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: that just the the idea of their being an online community, 544 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: whether it be racist or not can is just super 545 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: appealing because if if everyone thinks that you're weird in 546 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: an outcast, if these other people who are also weird 547 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: and outcasts start kind of trying to make friends with you, 548 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: then it can be a very powerful like recruitment tool. Um. 549 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 1: Which then of course they'll they'll they'll be people, they'll 550 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: be people who eventually try to like take them out 551 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: of the whole femboy stetics in a lot of in 552 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. Um. But a lot of fascists 553 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,680 Speaker 1: also get into the femboy stetic because of the because 554 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: of the proximity issue, right, because these things are so 555 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: like next to each other. Well, the thing you're the 556 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: kind of important broader realization there. And this is something 557 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: that a radicalization scholar named Scott Atran has been talking 558 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: about for ten years now, probably more is that people 559 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: get radicalized in communities. People like when we talk about radicalization, 560 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:21,880 Speaker 1: like why, Like I guess the other half of the 561 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: explainer that I started this with being like, you know, 562 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 1: every subculture has their Nazis. It's not because like the 563 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: reason every subculture has their Nazis is that subcultures are 564 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 1: like people get radicalized as part of communities as part 565 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: of subcultures. They don't get radicalized as individuals, just like 566 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: people don't aren't just walking out in the world and 567 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,000 Speaker 1: decide to become a Nazi. They become a Nazi because 568 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: a Nazi reaches them in something they're already into, right, 569 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: like that, That's just the way it happens. Yeah, there's 570 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: definitely a large part of this is like a group 571 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: of like group dynamics, especially in places like forums. Well 572 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: you're you know, try trying to trying to get like 573 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: this like a tension battle. Um. And I guess the 574 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,000 Speaker 1: other other big part of about them boy kind of idea, 575 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: especially on image boards is like it is such an 576 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: attention seeking, in validation seeking place right you you want 577 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: to you want to post things that gets you a 578 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: lot of comments, likes, upboats, whatever. The kind of the 579 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: metric is, um, So people will do things that get 580 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: them visibility. Even if even if half the people interacting 581 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: with you are calling you a degenerate, at least there's 582 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: people still looking at you. Right at least you feel seen, um, 583 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: and then the other half people will be like, no, 584 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: it's actually fine, you know. So as long as there's 585 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: that visibility, that that sense of community. Then a lot 586 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 1: of the more cognitive cognitive dissonance aspects can kind of 587 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 1: be passed by. But we'll we'll we'll get into more 588 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 1: of that for for for for part two. Um anyway, Uh, 589 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: you can find us on Twitter, Instagram at to Happen 590 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: Here Podon cole Zone Media, you can find me uh 591 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: talking about cowboys occasionally on Twitter at Hungry bow Tie 592 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: and about it. Well, it's you know, I've I've been 593 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: I've been trying to edit down this episode because the 594 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: script was way too long. We're trying to make it 595 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:13,239 Speaker 1: more sistinct the past few days. So my my, my, my, my, 596 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: I am. I am pretty excited to be to to 597 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: to close this Google doc at the end of the day. Well, 598 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: congratulations on all your hard work, Garrison and listeners at home. 599 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: Go dress like a cat boy. Yeah, and and don't 600 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:38,680 Speaker 1: be a Nazi. Yeah, I mean that's also important. It 601 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 602 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 603 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 604 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 605 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for it could 606 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: happen here? Updated monthly at cool Zone media dot com, 607 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: slash sources, Thanks for listening.