WEBVTT - Rabbi Tina Grimberg on anti-semitism and its enduring impact

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<v Speaker 1>Very pleased this afternoon to be joined on this edition

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<v Speaker 1>of the Warning podcast by Rabbi Tina Grimberg, who leads

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<v Speaker 1>the Congregation d'Ache Nobam in Toronto, Canada. Welcome, Rabbi Tina.

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<v Speaker 2>Pleasure, pleasure, Thank you, Steve, Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>My pleasure to have you with us.

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<v Speaker 2>Our times now right our times. But I'm I'm glad

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<v Speaker 2>to be here and to speak with you.

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<v Speaker 1>There is an aniversary today that is of note in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States, December nineteenth, and it marks the day where,

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<v Speaker 1>one week into service in Belgium as part of the

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<v Speaker 1>advancing United States Army, twenty six year old Master Sergeant

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<v Speaker 1>Roderick Edmunds of Knoxville, Tennessee was taken prisoner in the

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<v Speaker 1>German counter offense of that history remembers as the Battle

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<v Speaker 1>of the Bult And as it came to be, Master

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<v Speaker 1>Sergeant ed Madmins, aged twenty six, found himself on January

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<v Speaker 1>twenty seventh, which is coincidentally another important date which I'll

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<v Speaker 1>mention in a second. But Master Sergeant Edmunds, on the

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<v Speaker 1>day that Red Army forces liberated Auschwitz, found himself standing

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<v Speaker 1>in front of almost thirteen hundred Americans as the senior

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<v Speaker 1>American soldier in Stalog. There were no officers, no lieutenants,

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<v Speaker 1>captain's majors, just the twenty six year old master sergeant.

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<v Speaker 1>The Nazi commandant out and demanded that the Jews be

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<v Speaker 1>identified and separated from the rest of the American soldiers.

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<v Speaker 1>Master Sergeant Edmunds said nothing to anybody, did not consult,

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<v Speaker 1>and he said, we will do that. We are all

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<v Speaker 1>Jews here. And as the Nazi commander withdrew his side

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<v Speaker 1>arm and held it to Master Sergeant Edmund's heads and

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<v Speaker 1>bredon have pulled the trigger. The Master Sergeant's counter offer,

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<v Speaker 1>at age twenty six was, you could kill all of us.

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<v Speaker 1>We are Americans. We don't do that. We are all Jews,

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<v Speaker 1>and that you will be a war criminal and will

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<v Speaker 1>be hunted to the ends of the earth as we

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<v Speaker 1>win this war which was by then which was by

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<v Speaker 1>then evident. He came home and never told anybody about

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<v Speaker 1>this story. He had three marriages. His son was a

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<v Speaker 1>Baptist minister, and his last wife handed these wartime diaries,

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<v Speaker 1>and the son found the name, found the story, and

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<v Speaker 1>was reading a New York Times piece apparently about a

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<v Speaker 1>real estate transaction involving former President Nixon, and in that story,

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<v Speaker 1>by happenstance was an element of this tale by the

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<v Speaker 1>lawyer who represented Richard Nixon, who was one of the

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<v Speaker 1>three hundred Jews there that day that was saved, and

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<v Speaker 1>he was declared years after his death righteous amongst the Nations,

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<v Speaker 1>and the first American serviceman to be so declared. But

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<v Speaker 1>his capture was eighty years ago today. In that battle,

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<v Speaker 1>Adolph Hitler's last gas in Europe, in a war that

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<v Speaker 1>killed upwards of one hundred million people and led to

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<v Speaker 1>the genocide of the Jews, was underway on December sixteenth,

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<v Speaker 1>on the same day that a former American president and

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<v Speaker 1>the leading Republican candidate for president in the United States

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<v Speaker 1>talked about immigrants poisoning the blood of our country, which

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<v Speaker 1>is absolutely hilarian Nazi language. You are an immigrant to Canada,

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<v Speaker 1>you are a Rabbi, you are a Jew, and I

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<v Speaker 1>heard you deliver a sermon over Yam Kapor. I believe

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<v Speaker 1>that I think was one of the most brilliant expositions

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<v Speaker 1>I've ever heard anybody deliver on the subject of anti Semitism.

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<v Speaker 1>So I wanted to have you here today to talk

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<v Speaker 1>about that subject and open it up by asking about

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<v Speaker 1>that incident from eighty years ago where going to the

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<v Speaker 1>sermon that I heard. Anti Semitism that you grew up

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<v Speaker 1>with in Europe in the East of Europe is very different.

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<v Speaker 1>But the anti Semitism, as I understood your sermon troublingly

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<v Speaker 1>seems to be enduring.

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<v Speaker 2>So, first of all, thank you. I am very privileged

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<v Speaker 2>to serve a congregation the hey, no, I'm and I

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<v Speaker 2>it was you know, I was honored to have you there.

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<v Speaker 2>And then, you know, after that developed this connection. I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't want to write that sermon. I didn't want to

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<v Speaker 2>write it. And usually when I struggled with sermons and

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<v Speaker 2>trying to choose a topic to speak on, they're all

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<v Speaker 2>often done several conflicting ideas that absolutely fight for my attention.

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<v Speaker 2>But here there was no choice. And this is before

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<v Speaker 2>October seventh. I felt compelled to write. And I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>sure what was guiding or maybe I do what was

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<v Speaker 2>guiding my hand was a difficult sermon to research, and

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<v Speaker 2>more so actually to be able to say it out

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<v Speaker 2>loud that I began to re experience the trauma of

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<v Speaker 2>growing up. So, you know, working in my in a

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<v Speaker 2>capacity as a Rabbi. I go to the hospitals very

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<v Speaker 2>often and I speak both to patients and doctors. And

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<v Speaker 2>one thing began to show up in the last over

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<v Speaker 2>a decade is that there is not one type of cancer.

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<v Speaker 2>There are millions of type of cancers out there. That

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<v Speaker 2>and maybe I'm exaggerating, I'm not a physician, but in

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<v Speaker 2>other words, there are many antisemitisms as well as their antisemites.

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<v Speaker 2>So not one antisemitism is alike any other antisemitism because

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<v Speaker 2>people come to it from some often very personal ideations

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<v Speaker 2>or group ideas, and then they adapted themselves. So the

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<v Speaker 2>antisemitism of Soviet Ukraine, maybe to some degree with different

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<v Speaker 2>than antisemitism I encountered in the United States. But let

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<v Speaker 2>me just say that story of a argent standing up

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<v Speaker 2>a twenty six year old young man to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to have these inspiring words is a strike. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>what we found in the United States. I actually came

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<v Speaker 2>to the United States first the nineteen seventy nine. I

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<v Speaker 2>was sixteen year old girl. I finished had to finish

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<v Speaker 2>high school, then went to graduate school, and then subsequent

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<v Speaker 2>ended up in Canada and went to seminary in New York.

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<v Speaker 2>But it was. I remember the first years in the

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<v Speaker 2>United States and I thought to myself, my goodness, there

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<v Speaker 2>there is a world that's of this. Not only that,

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<v Speaker 2>but I met American Christians who were so passionate about

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<v Speaker 2>Bible and about their Jewish roots, meaning from Christianity, that

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<v Speaker 2>Christianity burst from that. Actually, George and every corner, and

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<v Speaker 2>Indiana was extremely friendly side for me. I found friends there.

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<v Speaker 2>So my experience of new world was very, very positive

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<v Speaker 2>and free of this feeling of oppression. So let me

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<v Speaker 2>just say, on account of the Soviet antisemitism. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>anytime society is oppressed, as we know, there will be

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<v Speaker 2>an ugly underground of infection that will be rising up

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<v Speaker 2>from the masses. And so the Ukrainians were oppressed as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and intellectuals were oppressed as well. And God forbid, if

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<v Speaker 2>you are a different sexual orientation, there was plenty of

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<v Speaker 2>those who would have turned you in and you would

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<v Speaker 2>be deemed as a pervert. The pain of antisemitism will

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<v Speaker 2>experience was not only that. At times it was so

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<v Speaker 2>difficult you didn't understand what was it about, meaning why

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<v Speaker 2>would you not be liked? I mean I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 2>I was a girl. What could I possibly have done,

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<v Speaker 2>but the fact that we had no Jewish educations, so

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<v Speaker 2>I had no Jewish pride, I had no Jewish knowledge,

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<v Speaker 2>There was nothing to combat. To be able to look

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<v Speaker 2>at this dark force and feel that I have the

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<v Speaker 2>spiritual ammunition to be able to counteract, to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to respond to it turns you on the inside, an

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<v Speaker 2>inside and it turns into shame. So you have an

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<v Speaker 2>identity of a Jew, but you did not have the

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<v Speaker 2>education and the privilege of learning because it was forbidden.

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<v Speaker 2>So in the United States, you know, that was initial

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<v Speaker 2>years of prosperity, but then you will run into an

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<v Speaker 2>issue as well, because it does exist among people. But

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<v Speaker 2>that antisemitism was somewhat different, you know, in its shape.

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<v Speaker 2>And one thing that was a big surprise, and I

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned that in a sermon in a story, is that

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<v Speaker 2>it came with a smile that I was not ready for.

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<v Speaker 2>That came with kind of that political correctness I did

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<v Speaker 2>not see. But when you turn on a social media,

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<v Speaker 2>that antiseptis that cancer actually echoes very much the terrible

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<v Speaker 2>reality of the Soviet Ukraine that we you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>came from. So there's some very similarities to the I

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<v Speaker 2>call it that cancer, and it's in every every organism.

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<v Speaker 2>In other words, when organism is troubled, it will show up.

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<v Speaker 2>And what can I say in terms of the treatment

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<v Speaker 2>and education and counteract in I'm blissful to say that

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<v Speaker 2>in my interface work with churches and even moss and

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<v Speaker 2>and in in a larger sense, I found so many

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<v Speaker 2>friends who wanted to stand to stand by I asked,

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<v Speaker 2>both in against antiseptism or any phourbias for that matter,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's never one, you never paid one. Usually it's

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<v Speaker 2>like you quite the gialtarian in one in terms of

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<v Speaker 2>its dislikes of a certain minority. And then it sort

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<v Speaker 2>of mushrooms. But as as as painful some of this is,

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<v Speaker 2>I also want to say that there is incredible connections

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<v Speaker 2>and the number of phocals that came after October October

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<v Speaker 2>seventh to me from my uh, from my non Jewish friends,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as traveling hours and hours in my study

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<v Speaker 2>with my congradians who stay the world, my colleagues, my

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<v Speaker 2>art community, my liberal circles has turned away its face.

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<v Speaker 2>So I know I'm beyond the questions. You're ready to

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<v Speaker 2>do your prepared so I'm gonna pull back. But but

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<v Speaker 2>find that sermon was hard to conceptualize in to write,

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<v Speaker 2>and I felt I had no choice. It was the king.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me, let me, let me come back to two

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<v Speaker 1>things that you said before we push forward into the

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<v Speaker 1>world that exists post October seventh. So your family survived,

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<v Speaker 1>It's survived the programs, it survived the Nazis, it survived

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<v Speaker 1>the Second World War, you survived. How many Jews were

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<v Speaker 1>there in Ukraine before nineteen thirty.

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<v Speaker 2>Nine, It's an It's an excellent question. So Ukraine, I

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<v Speaker 2>cannot answer you. But in order for Hitler to kill

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<v Speaker 2>three million of Polish Jews, you have to have over

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<v Speaker 2>three million. So I only have I just you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't have I wasn't prepared to delve into statistics.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm happy to send it to you later on. So

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<v Speaker 2>with the pale of settlement, which is alland Belarus, Ukraine

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<v Speaker 2>and some Russia Soviet Union or Greater Russia. And I'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>I know we're also speaking after the war with Russia

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<v Speaker 2>to Russian Ukraine developed, So all of it sounds how

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<v Speaker 2>should I say, infected, But nevertheless, it was a great

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<v Speaker 2>saracet empire. There was a huge number of population of Jews,

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<v Speaker 2>who ended up living in that eastern part of Europe

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<v Speaker 2>because they conditioned for many years, were also favorable. One

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<v Speaker 2>thing I don't want to paint is that Jewish history

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<v Speaker 2>say has been nothing but uh plethora of oil and

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<v Speaker 2>oil Judaism. It's like it was always awful. We had

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<v Speaker 2>we had years of Asbury right, and and also years

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<v Speaker 2>where in the same time there was a prosperity and

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<v Speaker 2>horrible things. So so it was Allish nobility actually that

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<v Speaker 2>asked Jews to come from Germany and settle and develop

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<v Speaker 2>trade in along the Rhine River and then take us

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<v Speaker 2>into eastern Europe. The trade was developed so Poland can

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<v Speaker 2>be developed. One of the famous the kings of Poland

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<v Speaker 2>was Kazimir and there's a selection in Kraka where I

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<v Speaker 2>worked with the Ukrainian refugees in the past two years.

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<v Speaker 2>Jews and non Jews, majority non Jews who fled water

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<v Speaker 2>with Ukraine. They they settled along the rivers and developed

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<v Speaker 2>trade and developed merchantry, which helped Poland to blossom in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of its uh it or developed Poland in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of its you know, in terms of its economic system.

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<v Speaker 2>So Jews settled and then of course with the Soviet

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<v Speaker 2>they inherited the Great Mother. Russia inherited quite a number

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<v Speaker 2>of Jews, and by well and Soviet Union was established

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<v Speaker 2>and all a sudden, the limitations and quarters of Jews

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<v Speaker 2>entering universities was taken off because we were limited by

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<v Speaker 2>the way, so was in Canada. You could not go

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<v Speaker 2>to medical school like the world quotas that were very serious.

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<v Speaker 2>They didn't just was it not. I think nineteen fifties

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<v Speaker 2>when I think, if I'm correct, what us were lifted,

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<v Speaker 2>But I have to check that date, so forgive me

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<v Speaker 2>that that year. But when it was lifted, then the

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<v Speaker 2>Jews rushed to universities because they wanted to learn. So

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't only yeshiva learning learning religious concept. It was

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<v Speaker 2>also cultural in general of civil to enter civil society,

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<v Speaker 2>and before that as well they were. But so my

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<v Speaker 2>family survived, and the reason we survived World War two

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<v Speaker 2>is because both my mother's family and my father's family.

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<v Speaker 2>My mother's from Key of a Plaid East and my

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<v Speaker 2>father was relocated with his mother all over the Volga

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<v Speaker 2>River and because of the stalin Grad, horrific battle that

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<v Speaker 2>turned the tide of Eastern Front of a war. It

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<v Speaker 2>was the bloodiest of battles where you know, the number

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<v Speaker 2>of young men perished is unspeakable. My father survived and

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<v Speaker 2>then my parents met a sweethearts in a dorm because

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<v Speaker 2>he was destroyed. Nazis destroyed going in in the meantime,

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<v Speaker 2>ordering thirty Southern Jews in three days. I have a

0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:29.680
<v Speaker 2>great end who died in that massacre. And then as

0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.120
<v Speaker 2>the key was liberated, the key was again destroyed because

0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:37.960
<v Speaker 2>they were pushing Nazis back, you know, through Europe. And

0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.320
<v Speaker 2>so my parents returned and they met and they fell

0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.199
<v Speaker 2>in love with children. So great love story. But so

0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:50.080
<v Speaker 2>families survived because my grandfather, one grandfather was drafted into

0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.800
<v Speaker 2>the Soviet army, served as an autist and came back

0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:56.760
<v Speaker 2>wounded and died within a few weeks after victory was proclaimed.

0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.119
<v Speaker 2>But he could see his boys. My father.

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.879
<v Speaker 1>Well, one of the things that you said is you

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:05.200
<v Speaker 1>talked about these periods of European history. So there are

0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:10.120
<v Speaker 1>through the centuries, there's a Jewish identity that is continuous,

0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:14.800
<v Speaker 1>contiguous in Europe, in these countries. But by the time

0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:19.520
<v Speaker 1>you are growing up, you don't have much of a

0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Jewish identity. And I wanted to ask you about that

0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:30.639
<v Speaker 1>because what that says to me, Ronald Reagan used to

0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:36.560
<v Speaker 1>talk about this almost in a way that I received

0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.280
<v Speaker 1>as a kid as a cliche or a platitude, But

0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:43.600
<v Speaker 1>it was this notion that freedom is only ever one

0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 1>generation away from being extinguished. And I think a deeper

0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:54.640
<v Speaker 1>reading of American history is that if you look at

0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:59.639
<v Speaker 1>some of the indigenous tribes the laws of culture, is

0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:04.720
<v Speaker 1>that one of the great enduring crimes of the Nazis

0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 1>and an immediate aftermath and of the Soviets, was the

0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.560
<v Speaker 1>extinguishment of a five thousand year old culture. And it

0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:18.480
<v Speaker 1>is possible, even within just a generation.

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:19.280
<v Speaker 2>You can destroy it.

0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.760
<v Speaker 1>To be able to destroy it and to do it,

0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:28.600
<v Speaker 1>it is that fragile. And it probably speaks because of

0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:36.560
<v Speaker 1>that fragility to the incessancy of the aspiration to finish

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:42.000
<v Speaker 1>the job right to to to to wipe out and

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.800
<v Speaker 1>and to destroy it, because there's been a there's been

0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:51.280
<v Speaker 1>a perpetuity the hate, to the stigmatization. There has always

0:19:51.440 --> 0:19:58.520
<v Speaker 1>been a there has always been an impulse to get

0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.800
<v Speaker 1>the Jews throughout out throughout history, and I just wonder,

0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, thinking about the fragility of that. And you

0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.840
<v Speaker 1>told this story in your sermon about the young man

0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 1>who goes off to college wearing a symbol a necklace

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.320
<v Speaker 1>of his Jewish identity.

0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:22.159
<v Speaker 2>Right huge, I've never seen and then I never seen it.

0:20:22.160 --> 0:20:23.200
<v Speaker 2>I think it wasn't as big.

0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:27.640
<v Speaker 1>And then within a short period time, you know, that

0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:33.040
<v Speaker 1>first symbol of identity extinguished, and really about the commitment

0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:40.159
<v Speaker 1>necessary to the sustainment of identity, of culture and ultimately

0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:44.240
<v Speaker 1>nationality before we before we get in October seventh.

0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Right, so let me let me just you know the

0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:53.080
<v Speaker 2>there's an excellent article that's been circling by a full

0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:58.960
<v Speaker 2>more sense for his I think teachers for Northwestern, very

0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:05.320
<v Speaker 2>talented writer, and he is a page he's a professor

0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.280
<v Speaker 2>of Slavic literature, and his specialty isn't the Stayevski especial

0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:11.720
<v Speaker 2>And of course you know, no one writes about suffering

0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:19.760
<v Speaker 2>better than nineteenth century Russian writers. And he brings the

0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:23.000
<v Speaker 2>case of the Stayevsky says that how come men who

0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:27.680
<v Speaker 2>who can talk about suffering with such sensitivity, such an

0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.679
<v Speaker 2>incredible intellectual, be so anti Semitic? What is it that

0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:35.359
<v Speaker 2>feeds the brilliant mind and soul in all other ways

0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:38.439
<v Speaker 2>but not to see suffering in its fullness? And he

0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:42.600
<v Speaker 2>develops and tries to understand to the point that he says, well,

0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:47.760
<v Speaker 2>he quotes one of the I think Russian literary critics,

0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:50.040
<v Speaker 2>but one of them he says, well, he says, he wrote,

0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:52.600
<v Speaker 2>if the whole world hates Jews, there must be a reason.

0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:55.440
<v Speaker 2>There must be a reason, if it's to our generation,

0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:59.080
<v Speaker 2>there was something something about these people that so that's

0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:04.160
<v Speaker 2>so dislikable. So he gives the more Doctor Morrison gives

0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 2>a very interesting example of particular antisemitism that Dostoyevsky doesn't

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:11.880
<v Speaker 2>want to own being an intellectual, so for him it's

0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 2>a philosophy. He says, he's not antisemitic. But the fact

0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:20.399
<v Speaker 2>is that he blames Disraeli right at that time, the

0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:25.280
<v Speaker 2>right hand men in uh, you know, in in English parliaments.

0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:30.600
<v Speaker 2>He blames him uh for of capitalism becoming more and

0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.520
<v Speaker 2>more so pronounced that he hates all the Jews for

0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:37.280
<v Speaker 2>bringing capitalism to the world and destroying the souls as

0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:40.720
<v Speaker 2>a result of that. That actually religious aspirations that should

0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 2>be the the masses. And his antisemitism, which he doesn't

0:22:45.560 --> 0:22:47.960
<v Speaker 2>want to own. He says, I don't hate Jews, but

0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.880
<v Speaker 2>he does it in a philosophical way, and that will

0:22:50.920 --> 0:22:56.639
<v Speaker 2>take us to October seventh, because antisemitism will more into

0:22:56.680 --> 0:23:01.679
<v Speaker 2>different forms. So even Dostoyevsky, great Dostiyev idea, is it

0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:09.280
<v Speaker 2>about against Jewish industrialisms who war or or bankers and

0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:14.240
<v Speaker 2>so forth, the next generation will find it in a

0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:17.119
<v Speaker 2>different place. So as much as I would like to

0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 2>say that that when it comes to if you have

0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:23.760
<v Speaker 2>some anti Israel rhetoric based on the fact that you

0:23:23.920 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 2>criticize lack of democracy in Israel, I don't understand how

0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:34.119
<v Speaker 2>that relates to bombing or bringing guns in a Jewish

0:23:34.200 --> 0:23:38.560
<v Speaker 2>day school in diaspora here in Canada. Just take ten

0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:43.560
<v Speaker 2>minutes away from my house. So you hide your sensibility

0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:47.280
<v Speaker 2>behind a different philosophy. But the fact, as you put it,

0:23:47.280 --> 0:23:51.240
<v Speaker 2>it does exist, and it changes form in different in

0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:56.560
<v Speaker 2>different generations, and it attacks this cancer attacks lulnerable souls,

0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:01.159
<v Speaker 2>souls that do not spend an mind enough time in

0:24:01.240 --> 0:24:06.359
<v Speaker 2>critical thinking. Do they choose isolation by looking in Boy, now,

0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.359
<v Speaker 2>my goodness, I'm speaking to you from my love of

0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:12.800
<v Speaker 2>the little pink color iPad. Boy, it knows what to

0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:17.520
<v Speaker 2>feed me. If I want a pillbox, yes, if I

0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:22.720
<v Speaker 2>need a exercise particular for women over fifty, boy, it

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:26.159
<v Speaker 2>knows me better than I know myself. And you have

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:29.840
<v Speaker 2>these vulnerable souls who are fed and ted and fed

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:36.800
<v Speaker 2>with the material that they cannot both. Often often they

0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:43.680
<v Speaker 2>to warp through to question, to read, greater to hear

0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:47.800
<v Speaker 2>other people, so anticipitism. At times it was driven by

0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:53.040
<v Speaker 2>the church. How come the mad tradition, the Judaism rejected

0:24:53.119 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 2>Christianity of Christian roots? How dare you? It's a hate

0:24:56.560 --> 0:25:01.359
<v Speaker 2>of a parent, It's a dislike that religion. Christianity was

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:06.600
<v Speaker 2>rejected for Spanish and prosponsionquisition. My witness the amount of

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:11.280
<v Speaker 2>land that was confiscated and wealth from the people who

0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:15.800
<v Speaker 2>were accused Antichrist or burned at a stake unbelievable. That's

0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:20.560
<v Speaker 2>materialistically driven, So you have it's not about the people.

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:23.440
<v Speaker 2>It's about often what the people meaning. I'm not about

0:25:23.440 --> 0:25:28.000
<v Speaker 2>the Jews. It's about what the system that produces this poison?

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:31.480
<v Speaker 2>What is it after? And very often it will incorporate

0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:37.840
<v Speaker 2>lost individuals. Crusades picked up along with its pillage the

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:42.920
<v Speaker 2>finest of Europe. But everyone couldn't read, couldn't write when

0:25:43.000 --> 0:25:48.399
<v Speaker 2>the pitchfork was going to liberate Jerusalem from infidels, and

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:52.399
<v Speaker 2>under the way to a bit of looting and killing. Well,

0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:58.200
<v Speaker 2>there were plenty of little villages along the way indiscriminatory murder. Right,

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:02.560
<v Speaker 2>So you have it. You have this in a You

0:26:02.600 --> 0:26:06.080
<v Speaker 2>can have, for example, interaction and office where your Jewish

0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:09.880
<v Speaker 2>boss was not really terribly kind to you, and all

0:26:09.880 --> 0:26:13.720
<v Speaker 2>of a sudden you will walk out hating average that

0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:16.959
<v Speaker 2>you meet Jewish person didn't do the right thing. I

0:26:16.960 --> 0:26:18.720
<v Speaker 2>want all the Jews do the right thing, to be

0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:23.680
<v Speaker 2>most generous, mos standards, the sweetest, open caring, only all

0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:25.960
<v Speaker 2>the best. That's why I would interrupting it is how

0:26:25.960 --> 0:26:28.879
<v Speaker 2>do you take this extraordinary tradition that was divided but

0:26:28.960 --> 0:26:33.520
<v Speaker 2>that was absolutely uh deprived to me and give it

0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 2>over with love and affection and spirit for good.

0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:48.679
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you a question and apply your very

0:26:49.119 --> 0:26:59.639
<v Speaker 1>formidable intellect towards it. How how do you process the

0:26:59.760 --> 0:27:07.040
<v Speaker 1>three president's t two presidents now one former president University

0:27:07.119 --> 0:27:13.480
<v Speaker 1>of Pennsylvania president since resigned. Some of the leading global

0:27:15.320 --> 0:27:20.359
<v Speaker 1>higher education institutions in the world, world famous everywhere MIT

0:27:20.680 --> 0:27:28.560
<v Speaker 1>University of Pennsylvania, Harvard University. That the question about anti

0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:37.119
<v Speaker 1>Semitism is answered as it is within a human lifetime

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:46.399
<v Speaker 1>of the Holocaust, which central lesson is expressed as a

0:27:46.560 --> 0:27:55.600
<v Speaker 1>combination of never again and never forget. How can it

0:27:55.680 --> 0:28:06.160
<v Speaker 1>be that, thirty years after Schindler's List is released in

0:28:06.200 --> 0:28:13.640
<v Speaker 1>the culture, that the culture, at least in an elite

0:28:13.680 --> 0:28:20.399
<v Speaker 1>academic sense, has moved from point A to point B

0:28:22.160 --> 0:28:27.440
<v Speaker 1>without much conversation about any of the space that exists

0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:32.840
<v Speaker 1>underneath point A to point B. I think it's incredible

0:28:33.000 --> 0:28:36.440
<v Speaker 1>and begining you meditate.

0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:38.719
<v Speaker 2>On that, so let me see and forgiving me. At

0:28:38.720 --> 0:28:41.160
<v Speaker 2>times I don't I mean, I don't know if because

0:28:41.160 --> 0:28:42.800
<v Speaker 2>it's it's sort of bennic thing, but at times it

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:47.360
<v Speaker 2>or myself in particular, do not stay very focused, but

0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:52.680
<v Speaker 2>eventually hopefully get to what to where we would be heading. Uh.

0:28:53.080 --> 0:28:56.440
<v Speaker 2>I think, first of all, the idea of freedom of

0:28:56.520 --> 0:29:00.720
<v Speaker 2>speech I do not believe exists in the full sense.

0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:03.800
<v Speaker 2>We actually not free to say what we think. Sometimes

0:29:03.800 --> 0:29:06.320
<v Speaker 2>it's a good idea and sometimes it's not a good idea.

0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>What I when I listened to the three women speaking,

0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:13.800
<v Speaker 2>I was horrified for a couple a couple of issues.

0:29:13.840 --> 0:29:16.720
<v Speaker 2>First of all, there were my fellow women meaning that

0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:20.000
<v Speaker 2>you should know what oppression is like. And by the way,

0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:24.160
<v Speaker 2>this is not because my entire feminine experience and feminist

0:29:24.160 --> 0:29:27.080
<v Speaker 2>experience were in the presence of oppressive a system or

0:29:27.080 --> 0:29:31.240
<v Speaker 2>oppressive man. No, but as a female who worked and

0:29:31.520 --> 0:29:36.680
<v Speaker 2>rolled them and been part the sensitivity was a lot

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:39.680
<v Speaker 2>of sensitivity. Was stunning. Forgive me if I expect at

0:29:39.680 --> 0:29:40.840
<v Speaker 2>this moment.

0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:45.120
<v Speaker 3>From a from a lover of the world, from another mother,

0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:50.040
<v Speaker 3>such distance of sensitivity. So first of all, you might

0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:54.400
<v Speaker 3>have to edit this, this piece ode. So I'm continued

0:29:54.440 --> 0:29:57.040
<v Speaker 3>speaking what I was upset, and I would expect the

0:29:57.080 --> 0:29:58.360
<v Speaker 3>same from men as well.

0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:01.480
<v Speaker 2>But what the second thing I was, I was stand by.

0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:05.560
<v Speaker 2>They looked scared to me, and I look for those

0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:12.120
<v Speaker 2>science as as both as a rabbi and as a therapist.

0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:15.840
<v Speaker 2>With these three women looked frightened. They were frightened to

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:20.720
<v Speaker 2>speak what they really thought. And the idea of intellectual

0:30:20.720 --> 0:30:25.800
<v Speaker 2>freedom in university is very much under attack, and I

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.880
<v Speaker 2>don't know if we'll ever fully existed. Maybe there was

0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:35.000
<v Speaker 2>a little renaissance period in between. They were looked frightened

0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:39.680
<v Speaker 2>of what will be the consequence if they really say

0:30:39.680 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 2>what they think, because I don't believe they have done.

0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:50.200
<v Speaker 2>So they looked behind their response invisible to us. There

0:30:50.200 --> 0:30:53.800
<v Speaker 2>were members of the board they were donors. There were

0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:57.880
<v Speaker 2>all there were groups of students and student body to

0:30:57.920 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 2>which they were answering. I did not feel we received

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:07.120
<v Speaker 2>a truly in depth what they thought of reality. They

0:31:07.240 --> 0:31:11.040
<v Speaker 2>were what you call in a Jewish kitchen path part

0:31:11.240 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 2>means neither meat, neither neither milk. It is usually belongs

0:31:16.080 --> 0:31:19.480
<v Speaker 2>to vegetables and when And they were in front of

0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:25.240
<v Speaker 2>the woman who was spectacular interviewer of an examiner. She

0:31:25.400 --> 0:31:28.240
<v Speaker 2>was the panic I think her last name, what Congress

0:31:28.280 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 2>war was unbelievably clear and an antarget. So first of all,

0:31:32.960 --> 0:31:35.000
<v Speaker 2>this is what I thought, This is what I saw.

0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:38.240
<v Speaker 2>The other thing is the power in the and the

0:31:39.760 --> 0:31:45.920
<v Speaker 2>our feeling that overlooming subject of the Holocaust, Urban Cutler,

0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:51.040
<v Speaker 2>whoist who is was uh, you know MP and I

0:31:51.120 --> 0:31:55.240
<v Speaker 2>think I'm saying it correctly for a liberal party here

0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:58.160
<v Speaker 2>in Canada. And who is also was charged with anti

0:31:58.960 --> 0:32:03.760
<v Speaker 2>to deal with the anti Semtism because regular regular threats

0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:07.520
<v Speaker 2>of death threats that are posed against him. But at

0:32:07.560 --> 0:32:11.880
<v Speaker 2>the conference in nineteen Semitism, which was planned and nobody

0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:14.920
<v Speaker 2>expected after October sevenths It was planned way before, but

0:32:15.000 --> 0:32:17.720
<v Speaker 2>it just happened to be after October seventh. In Ottawa.

0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 2>He said, remember this is still this is twenty twenty three,

0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:25.880
<v Speaker 2>nineteen forty three, and it's caught up. It was like,

0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:29.520
<v Speaker 2>you're right, we can't be. We know we have a

0:32:29.600 --> 0:32:32.440
<v Speaker 2>lot more going for us than we did in nineteen

0:32:32.480 --> 0:32:36.800
<v Speaker 2>forty three. We have democracy on our side, we are vocal,

0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:39.520
<v Speaker 2>we speak, and so forth, so on. For a while

0:32:39.560 --> 0:32:42.880
<v Speaker 2>I repeeded this, this is twenty twenty three, this is

0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:46.000
<v Speaker 2>not nineteen forty three. I'll tell you what's a problem

0:32:46.040 --> 0:32:50.440
<v Speaker 2>with it. So I would compare my Jewish reality compared

0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 2>to a gas champer. As long as they're not going

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:55.280
<v Speaker 2>to put me in a in a gas chamber, everything

0:32:55.280 --> 0:32:57.720
<v Speaker 2>else is not okay? Or is it okay?

0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:02.680
<v Speaker 4>Do you see like this, this specterrum of between living

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:06.040
<v Speaker 4>a good life of a free person in the world,

0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:10.800
<v Speaker 4>either being of various faith communities.

0:33:10.160 --> 0:33:13.760
<v Speaker 2>In general, being a Jew, being a vibrant Jew, being

0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:18.920
<v Speaker 2>outspoken Jew. The next step, as long as it's not Orschwitz,

0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:21.000
<v Speaker 2>then it's okay. Well, there are plenty of things that's

0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:24.720
<v Speaker 2>not Auschwitz. That's not okay. The fact that my son

0:33:25.560 --> 0:33:28.560
<v Speaker 2>has to be concerned of what's happening on campus is

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 2>not okay, And it's not Auschwitz. And what we're hoping

0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:38.520
<v Speaker 2>is that a simple human being burdened with the war

0:33:38.800 --> 0:33:41.680
<v Speaker 2>may be fired. Maybe lonely sitting in front of this

0:33:41.800 --> 0:33:48.960
<v Speaker 2>computer will make a sophisticated leaf that will say, well,

0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:53.040
<v Speaker 2>if I continue reading these horrible articles about Jewish people,

0:33:53.120 --> 0:33:55.600
<v Speaker 2>I might end up like a Nazi, and then I

0:33:55.600 --> 0:34:00.400
<v Speaker 2>can actually destroy and kill. That's a very very sophisticated journey.

0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:05.080
<v Speaker 2>You try to think individual on w is frankly are

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to see people. I want to see

0:34:11.000 --> 0:34:13.719
<v Speaker 2>them in the best possible light and hope for their

0:34:13.960 --> 0:34:17.719
<v Speaker 2>for their openness and rehabilitation, if I may say. But

0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:21.160
<v Speaker 2>what we're asking for people to do is these terrible

0:34:21.239 --> 0:34:25.359
<v Speaker 2>minds make a very very hugely that where their prejudice

0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:28.719
<v Speaker 2>can take them, and I don't believe majority people can.

0:34:29.320 --> 0:34:32.640
<v Speaker 2>And then there are some individuals that will take as

0:34:32.640 --> 0:34:37.440
<v Speaker 2>in my son's school and walk through his high school

0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:41.080
<v Speaker 2>he's now in university, walk through his high school and

0:34:41.160 --> 0:34:43.640
<v Speaker 2>next thing you know, there is the police. There's a

0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:46.719
<v Speaker 2>bum threat and all the kids have vacated three times.

0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Three times. So no, it's not nineteen forty three, but

0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I have to tell you the bar is pretty low.

0:34:56.640 --> 0:35:01.640
<v Speaker 1>I think it's really interesting to hear you talk about

0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:06.840
<v Speaker 1>that and make that comparison. And so I think about

0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:13.719
<v Speaker 1>this completely differently, and I'll lay it out from for you,

0:35:14.600 --> 0:35:17.640
<v Speaker 1>because I think about it not as somebody who is

0:35:17.719 --> 0:35:21.600
<v Speaker 1>even converting to Judaism, but just as somebody who's fifty three,

0:35:22.160 --> 0:35:25.319
<v Speaker 1>who's reached middle age and has a and has a

0:35:25.440 --> 0:35:30.640
<v Speaker 1>perspective on time and as an amateur student of history.

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Nineteen forty three is a year after the Wance Conference

0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:42.359
<v Speaker 1>where the murder of the Jews is officially planned. And

0:35:42.760 --> 0:35:47.680
<v Speaker 1>really what we recall of the Holocaust, such as it was,

0:35:48.840 --> 0:35:57.920
<v Speaker 1>the mechanized, industrialized murder through the gas chambers, the incineration,

0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:02.960
<v Speaker 1>the confiscation of good its properties Auschwitz. All of this

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:11.759
<v Speaker 1>killing takes place between nineteen forty two and January spring

0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:16.520
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen forty five, including up through the very very

0:36:16.640 --> 0:36:22.400
<v Speaker 1>last minutes that the Nazi Reich existed. They were killing

0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:30.640
<v Speaker 1>Jews to the very last second, including after Hitler killed himself.

0:36:30.840 --> 0:36:34.239
<v Speaker 1>And so if you think about nineteen forty three, in

0:36:34.320 --> 0:36:39.000
<v Speaker 1>that moment, how did you get to nineteen forty three?

0:36:39.280 --> 0:36:44.320
<v Speaker 1>And that took twenty years, That took Brooke nineteen twenty

0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:49.879
<v Speaker 1>three from Adolph Hitler's puch, and you can divide that

0:36:49.960 --> 0:36:53.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty years, you can divide it in half. It took

0:36:53.120 --> 0:36:57.200
<v Speaker 1>ten ten years from Hitler's push to taking power, and

0:36:57.680 --> 0:37:02.520
<v Speaker 1>it took ten years to nineteen forty three. It took

0:37:02.680 --> 0:37:06.240
<v Speaker 1>six years to start the war, It took two years

0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:10.880
<v Speaker 1>to strip Jews of their rights, and it took five

0:37:11.000 --> 0:37:14.920
<v Speaker 1>years to get to the largest state program in history.

0:37:14.960 --> 0:37:19.839
<v Speaker 1>And in nineteen forty in the United States, Charles Lindbergh

0:37:19.960 --> 0:37:28.080
<v Speaker 1>came really within organizing one vote away the cancelation of

0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:33.359
<v Speaker 1>the American military draft, which would have made an invasion

0:37:33.440 --> 0:37:40.680
<v Speaker 1>across the Channel impossible before say, nineteen forty six, which

0:37:40.760 --> 0:37:43.879
<v Speaker 1>meant that the Holocaust, such as it was would have

0:37:43.960 --> 0:37:49.920
<v Speaker 1>gone on for much much longer. And the question in

0:37:50.000 --> 0:37:57.600
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three isn't about nineteen forty three, it's about

0:37:57.640 --> 0:38:05.719
<v Speaker 1>where are we in the trajectory and in the of

0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:11.960
<v Speaker 1>an unfinished story. The one thing I know historically to

0:38:12.080 --> 0:38:15.760
<v Speaker 1>be true is that when we talked about the history

0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:20.520
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about, the sixteenth century was deadlier than the fifteenth,

0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:24.000
<v Speaker 1>The seventeenth, more than the sixteenth, the eighteenth, more than

0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:27.920
<v Speaker 1>the seventeenth, the nineteenth, more than the eighteenth, the twentieth

0:38:28.000 --> 0:38:30.800
<v Speaker 1>the deadliest of all. And we come to the middle

0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:38.399
<v Speaker 1>of the century with an existential moral proposition. Mankind can

0:38:38.440 --> 0:38:44.200
<v Speaker 1>now extinct itself with weapons that are within them, the

0:38:44.239 --> 0:38:48.239
<v Speaker 1>power of the gods contained within them, the power of

0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:55.480
<v Speaker 1>the proverbial gods. War hasn't stopped, but the acceleration of

0:38:55.760 --> 0:39:04.520
<v Speaker 1>disaster has slowed until the end of the life spans

0:39:04.719 --> 0:39:09.040
<v Speaker 1>of the people who survived the events, and the political

0:39:09.120 --> 0:39:14.520
<v Speaker 1>hope of the preeminent leader for the good for freedom.

0:39:14.680 --> 0:39:18.960
<v Speaker 1>In that moment, Franklin Roosevelt, in a discussion with the

0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Canadian Prime Minister, goes on late at night and he

0:39:22.520 --> 0:39:25.600
<v Speaker 1>says to Prime Minister Kinging that his aspiration is not

0:39:25.760 --> 0:39:31.880
<v Speaker 1>that the world to come, this American led, freedom led

0:39:32.080 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 1>international order will endure forever. He just wants it to

0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:38.960
<v Speaker 1>last for as long as everybody is alive. On the

0:39:39.080 --> 0:39:41.640
<v Speaker 1>day the war is won, and the youngest of those

0:39:41.680 --> 0:39:46.279
<v Speaker 1>people are about eighty years old, and we have this

0:39:46.520 --> 0:39:53.359
<v Speaker 1>wave of amnesia sweeping at a time where we know

0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:59.879
<v Speaker 1>how that story ended, but we have no idea where

0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:03.320
<v Speaker 1>this story is going going.

0:40:04.360 --> 0:40:08.759
<v Speaker 2>My son was fast, you know, the eighteen year old

0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:12.880
<v Speaker 2>young man who said, I'm much less concerned about Israel

0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:17.040
<v Speaker 2>and much more concerned about Jews in you know, in diaspora.

0:40:17.160 --> 0:40:22.160
<v Speaker 2>I think the side actually turned. If diaspora, a Jewish

0:40:22.160 --> 0:40:26.359
<v Speaker 2>community was concerned about, you know, how Israel will fare,

0:40:26.480 --> 0:40:29.399
<v Speaker 2>actually I think it's the other way of how we're

0:40:29.400 --> 0:40:34.840
<v Speaker 2>going to do. Look, one of the Jewish concept is

0:40:34.880 --> 0:40:37.160
<v Speaker 2>that you're not allowed to despair, even if it feels

0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:43.759
<v Speaker 2>like it's dark. So I I was in a car

0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:48.120
<v Speaker 2>with human instead and we speak Fressian. I grew up

0:40:48.120 --> 0:40:50.640
<v Speaker 2>in Kiev and the language of love is Russian for me.

0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:56.840
<v Speaker 2>Even even so you know, my you know, what's happening

0:40:56.880 --> 0:41:00.640
<v Speaker 2>in Ukraine and with Russia is also complicated than heart

0:41:00.680 --> 0:41:06.799
<v Speaker 2>wrenching two. But always I speak Russian to him often enough,

0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:10.040
<v Speaker 2>and I said, you know, I never thought that when

0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I chased train out of Ukraine, and that's exactly what

0:41:13.480 --> 0:41:17.560
<v Speaker 2>my sister and I did, and I talk about it

0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:20.799
<v Speaker 2>in a book where you know, we were lost to

0:41:20.840 --> 0:41:23.040
<v Speaker 2>get to get off the platform and the train began

0:41:23.120 --> 0:41:26.000
<v Speaker 2>to move and two young women myself and my sister

0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:30.240
<v Speaker 2>were left. My parents were in a in the heart itself,

0:41:30.320 --> 0:41:34.040
<v Speaker 2>trying to help elderly and pulling people in, but all

0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:38.879
<v Speaker 2>departures like this are are filled with chaos. I said,

0:41:38.880 --> 0:41:41.719
<v Speaker 2>when I chase that train, I never thought that you

0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:47.640
<v Speaker 2>would ever have to face anti Semitism. Your grandfathers and

0:41:47.960 --> 0:41:51.759
<v Speaker 2>our goal was to create the world without it for you.

0:41:52.880 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 2>But that's not the case. That's not the case. So

0:41:55.800 --> 0:41:57.759
<v Speaker 2>what do I see in my work and in my son,

0:41:58.000 --> 0:42:02.640
<v Speaker 2>is actually this crisis a weakened Jewish identity. There are

0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:07.399
<v Speaker 2>number of responses. You know, when when things are hard

0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:11.920
<v Speaker 2>for the Jews. The laws around Hanukah and that is

0:42:12.000 --> 0:42:15.560
<v Speaker 2>customs and you know, traditions, and we just finished this

0:42:15.640 --> 0:42:19.920
<v Speaker 2>extraordinary festival of light. You're supposed to announce miracle, and

0:42:19.960 --> 0:42:23.640
<v Speaker 2>you put Johanukiya, your minora, right at the window or outside.

0:42:23.680 --> 0:42:26.240
<v Speaker 2>In Israel, they go into a box outside on the streets.

0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:30.839
<v Speaker 2>You see these beautiful boxes with lit thenora's And when

0:42:30.880 --> 0:42:34.440
<v Speaker 2>things are really hard for the Jews, you put Johanukiya,

0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:39.960
<v Speaker 2>you light it on the table inside the house. So

0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:43.319
<v Speaker 2>at times in our history we have to light it

0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:45.879
<v Speaker 2>in the house, and the times we light it right

0:42:45.880 --> 0:42:48.080
<v Speaker 2>there at the window. So some Jews chose to go

0:42:48.120 --> 0:42:53.319
<v Speaker 2>on the inside, and others have been absolutely inspired to go.

0:42:54.160 --> 0:42:58.359
<v Speaker 2>And I have been asked to do more conversions and

0:42:58.560 --> 0:43:01.279
<v Speaker 2>more young Jewish people have been calling and asking what

0:43:01.719 --> 0:43:06.000
<v Speaker 2>giving me traditions to live by than I have ever

0:43:06.120 --> 0:43:09.239
<v Speaker 2>had in twenty years, twenty five years of serving Jewish community.

0:43:10.200 --> 0:43:16.680
<v Speaker 2>So actually where it's going from? I want to examine

0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:20.960
<v Speaker 2>this from oi to joy and that we will face this.

0:43:21.320 --> 0:43:25.719
<v Speaker 2>And I am both frightened and determined that if we

0:43:25.920 --> 0:43:31.600
<v Speaker 2>give education to our children and our people to live

0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:35.160
<v Speaker 2>this beautiful Jewish righteous life, work with very deeply with

0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:39.640
<v Speaker 2>interface in interface dialogue, which I do regularly with my

0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:44.319
<v Speaker 2>Christian colleagues and friends as well as people of other

0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:51.560
<v Speaker 2>faith and visual about democracy. We stand the chance, We

0:43:51.680 --> 0:43:55.640
<v Speaker 2>stand the chance, and overall the world is better and

0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:59.560
<v Speaker 2>than it's used to be. We actually, depending on numbers

0:43:59.640 --> 0:44:02.000
<v Speaker 2>used to pillage each other, there a lot better with

0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:05.600
<v Speaker 2>greater success. We are more civilized as well as more

0:44:05.640 --> 0:44:13.919
<v Speaker 2>sophisticated to kill. Absolutely, But I I see the light

0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:18.040
<v Speaker 2>even when there's darkness around me, and to see people

0:44:18.160 --> 0:44:21.319
<v Speaker 2>seeking out their Jewish identity and the roots and say

0:44:21.960 --> 0:44:25.399
<v Speaker 2>yi laheim to life. And I can be there from

0:44:25.520 --> 0:44:30.200
<v Speaker 2>that place of of shame and of lack of education

0:44:30.320 --> 0:44:34.839
<v Speaker 2>as a Jew who fled that terrible system. Judaism in

0:44:34.880 --> 0:44:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the Soviet Union was erased, but it was left in

0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:41.919
<v Speaker 2>your pastport to know you're a Jew. By the time

0:44:41.960 --> 0:44:45.640
<v Speaker 2>it got to me, there was my grandmother's Yiddish whispers

0:44:45.719 --> 0:44:51.960
<v Speaker 2>and little stories here and there. But Judaism in in

0:44:51.960 --> 0:44:55.920
<v Speaker 2>in in the North America and in education that we

0:44:56.080 --> 0:45:02.160
<v Speaker 2>try to impart has the life giving and life surviving

0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:09.480
<v Speaker 2>skills for the future. And I will not stop to

0:45:09.640 --> 0:45:15.240
<v Speaker 2>share that education. And so your concern is absolutely history

0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:18.840
<v Speaker 2>can present that trajectory is scary. Where we are in

0:45:18.920 --> 0:45:22.680
<v Speaker 2>this trajectory, you can say in nineteen thirty eight maybe,

0:45:22.880 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 2>and then it doesn't take long. I don't believe this

0:45:26.000 --> 0:45:29.799
<v Speaker 2>will unfold as such. But when I speak to Holocaust survivors,

0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:33.120
<v Speaker 2>I cry with them. And one thing I want to say,

0:45:33.200 --> 0:45:36.560
<v Speaker 2>I want to today's my father's your side. You know

0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:39.160
<v Speaker 2>he died four years ago. You couldn't have found more

0:45:39.200 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 2>elegant men, more charm being more involved with his two

0:45:43.960 --> 0:45:46.360
<v Speaker 2>more in love with his wife and his two girls.

0:45:47.520 --> 0:45:51.840
<v Speaker 2>And he served in the Soviet Army. His father served

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:57.080
<v Speaker 2>for entire years of the war along with Ukrainians, along

0:45:57.200 --> 0:46:00.000
<v Speaker 2>with was big it was Biggist and along with George

0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:07.279
<v Speaker 2>gans to fight a horrible, horrible war of Hitler. I'm

0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:10.319
<v Speaker 2>glad my father isn't seeing what he's has not. He

0:46:10.360 --> 0:46:13.960
<v Speaker 2>died before the war in Ukraine unfolded. I will shood

0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:15.799
<v Speaker 2>to live to one hundred and twenty. But I have

0:46:15.880 --> 0:46:20.120
<v Speaker 2>to tell you, I'm glad he didn't see this and

0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:24.200
<v Speaker 2>to see Holocaust survivors and what he would have seen

0:46:24.239 --> 0:46:28.319
<v Speaker 2>on October October seventh would have destroyed my parents. To

0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:35.880
<v Speaker 2>see Holocaust survivors reliving this is absolutely devastating. So what

0:46:35.920 --> 0:46:39.360
<v Speaker 2>do we do? We bring them to hear our children

0:46:39.520 --> 0:46:43.640
<v Speaker 2>sing in Hebrew? What do we do We make phone

0:46:43.640 --> 0:46:48.719
<v Speaker 2>calls to Israel and here ISRAELI speak about spirit and

0:46:49.200 --> 0:46:55.240
<v Speaker 2>future and desire for peace. What do we do every

0:46:55.719 --> 0:47:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Saturday morning eight sixty four, Shepherd? Where you were therefore

0:47:00.920 --> 0:47:04.920
<v Speaker 2>high holidays? We bring people in the sanctuary and we

0:47:05.160 --> 0:47:09.640
<v Speaker 2>sing and we dance and we educate. So no, no,

0:47:09.920 --> 0:47:14.759
<v Speaker 2>we won't let it happen. No frighten us.

0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask you a final question, and that's two.

0:47:21.320 --> 0:47:31.279
<v Speaker 1>What do you say to young people who are watching

0:47:32.840 --> 0:47:45.280
<v Speaker 1>the terrible consequence of October seventh on fold without any

0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:52.920
<v Speaker 1>historical context, in complete ignorance about the cost of war,

0:47:53.160 --> 0:48:01.040
<v Speaker 1>the horror of war, the intellectual construct of of just war,

0:48:03.000 --> 0:48:10.040
<v Speaker 1>the consequences of violations of international law being committed by

0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:16.759
<v Speaker 1>hamas in terms of embedding themselves with civilian population, including

0:48:17.520 --> 0:48:27.000
<v Speaker 1>militarizing hospital facilities, elder care facilities, childcare facilities, so on,

0:48:27.440 --> 0:48:34.000
<v Speaker 1>so on and so forth. But no matter the casualties

0:48:34.280 --> 0:48:38.280
<v Speaker 1>are high, is.

0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:41.080
<v Speaker 2>You feel for civilians lost?

0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:47.200
<v Speaker 1>A Jewish baby's life and its loss in the eyes

0:48:47.239 --> 0:48:51.400
<v Speaker 1>of God is no greater or less loss than a

0:48:51.400 --> 0:48:56.040
<v Speaker 1>Arab baby, or Muslim baby or Christian baby. That all

0:48:56.400 --> 0:49:00.880
<v Speaker 1>are equally a tragedy, tragedy in a a front. But

0:49:01.000 --> 0:49:08.320
<v Speaker 1>that when an event like this happens, when an evil

0:49:09.440 --> 0:49:19.080
<v Speaker 1>manifests itself, yes, that the evil must be confronted, and

0:49:19.160 --> 0:49:29.160
<v Speaker 1>that that confrontation will will mean violence and death and

0:49:29.239 --> 0:49:42.200
<v Speaker 1>destruction at an epic scale that cannot be averted, but

0:49:42.600 --> 0:49:48.880
<v Speaker 1>can be the beginning of an error of peace on

0:49:49.000 --> 0:49:52.920
<v Speaker 1>the other side if people so choose it. But how

0:49:53.520 --> 0:49:58.279
<v Speaker 1>do you explain this to a to an eighteen year old,

0:49:58.400 --> 0:50:02.000
<v Speaker 1>to a twenty year role that is reacting on their

0:50:02.040 --> 0:50:08.399
<v Speaker 1>social media feeds emotionally to the images of war.

0:50:10.120 --> 0:50:14.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, so we've been quite quite privileged to live

0:50:14.440 --> 0:50:18.520
<v Speaker 2>in a time where you know, the war is not

0:50:19.239 --> 0:50:22.080
<v Speaker 2>underground in Canada or in the United States, we have

0:50:23.080 --> 0:50:27.560
<v Speaker 2>it's elsewhere, right, you know, it's kind of overseas, right,

0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:30.719
<v Speaker 2>But these images are brought close to you. What is

0:50:30.719 --> 0:50:34.680
<v Speaker 2>amazing is that how that war is offull anywhere, including Rwanda,

0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:40.840
<v Speaker 2>including in Syria, including in Afghanistan. So Middle East is

0:50:42.840 --> 0:50:47.319
<v Speaker 2>affected by and a gas is affected by horristic war.

0:50:47.560 --> 0:50:50.560
<v Speaker 2>But this is not the only place where our justice

0:50:50.760 --> 0:50:54.759
<v Speaker 2>needs to be stirred and spilt. That's number one. It's

0:50:54.760 --> 0:50:58.560
<v Speaker 2>impossible to explain so much in such a short period

0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:03.319
<v Speaker 2>of time. First of all, the attention of teenage young

0:51:03.360 --> 0:51:05.680
<v Speaker 2>people is very short. I see it when I try

0:51:05.719 --> 0:51:08.080
<v Speaker 2>to have a conversation and get to a third sentence,

0:51:08.320 --> 0:51:10.120
<v Speaker 2>and I don't know if you have teenage children, but

0:51:10.200 --> 0:51:15.080
<v Speaker 2>you they ran out like it's amazing. It's a you're

0:51:15.120 --> 0:51:18.160
<v Speaker 2>onto something else, almost like a toddler. Forgive me. I

0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:20.520
<v Speaker 2>don't mean to infantilize them, but there is a bit

0:51:20.600 --> 0:51:24.799
<v Speaker 2>of rite you. Well, so there was one. I think

0:51:25.000 --> 0:51:28.680
<v Speaker 2>the most I can do I can't control media, and

0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:32.560
<v Speaker 2>very often it's profoundly unfriendly and frankly lack of nuance,

0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:36.799
<v Speaker 2>lack of nuance to compare, to compare the death of

0:51:36.880 --> 0:51:40.799
<v Speaker 2>hostages that were only and uh and what happened you

0:51:40.800 --> 0:51:46.040
<v Speaker 2>know in those in a southern Israel, to compare, to

0:51:46.080 --> 0:51:51.319
<v Speaker 2>make the equivalents so easily without distinguished? What does that

0:51:51.400 --> 0:51:53.799
<v Speaker 2>mean to come into someone else's home? What does that mean?

0:51:53.920 --> 0:51:59.080
<v Speaker 2>The battleground? Yes, life is life. However there is a

0:51:59.239 --> 0:52:02.200
<v Speaker 2>nuance in different You cannot do it on the fly.

0:52:02.560 --> 0:52:08.280
<v Speaker 2>And the little social feeds they receive a young people

0:52:08.360 --> 0:52:13.560
<v Speaker 2>received are actually support their inability to discipline, to read,

0:52:13.880 --> 0:52:17.640
<v Speaker 2>to digest and to have a critical thought That takes effort,

0:52:18.400 --> 0:52:20.480
<v Speaker 2>that takes And that's what's the beginning of my conversation

0:52:20.600 --> 0:52:24.280
<v Speaker 2>when I thought, really you have to really think through something.

0:52:25.680 --> 0:52:29.840
<v Speaker 2>They are they want quick answers, and I see credible

0:52:29.880 --> 0:52:33.440
<v Speaker 2>isolation in young people. On one hand, I can with

0:52:33.560 --> 0:52:36.640
<v Speaker 2>my want to be all over the world any time

0:52:36.680 --> 0:52:38.640
<v Speaker 2>I can do anything. It means I can do nothing

0:52:39.800 --> 0:52:45.080
<v Speaker 2>because everything is not it is not anything. So so

0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:51.840
<v Speaker 2>the depth of analysis is really missing us. The media

0:52:51.920 --> 0:52:56.400
<v Speaker 2>content that just hardly hardly is uh uh is supportive.

0:52:56.880 --> 0:53:00.920
<v Speaker 2>So I would say to those who are all to

0:53:01.000 --> 0:53:06.440
<v Speaker 2>pay attention, you have series of dialogues without punishment or

0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:11.400
<v Speaker 2>harsh judgment, but desire to say, well, tell me why

0:53:11.440 --> 0:53:13.799
<v Speaker 2>do you feel and think like this? And would you

0:53:13.880 --> 0:53:19.279
<v Speaker 2>be open to me challenging or another opinion. So I

0:53:19.360 --> 0:53:21.759
<v Speaker 2>don't see this on a larger scale. I see this

0:53:21.840 --> 0:53:24.680
<v Speaker 2>on one to one and we've done so also at

0:53:24.680 --> 0:53:31.520
<v Speaker 2>the Darnoa where in polarization of are you and Darenauum

0:53:31.640 --> 0:53:34.040
<v Speaker 2>is not a place of polarization. It's a very tolerant,

0:53:34.120 --> 0:53:39.520
<v Speaker 2>loving community. But there is a room for grief. I mean,

0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:47.719
<v Speaker 2>what happened on October seventh the beyond bit despicable, but barbarism.

0:53:50.200 --> 0:53:56.280
<v Speaker 2>I also feel for Gaza civilian who is warning her child,

0:53:57.280 --> 0:54:01.160
<v Speaker 2>or her beloved mother or anyone knows who's under rubble.

0:54:01.960 --> 0:54:06.040
<v Speaker 2>So I have to have room to love with both,

0:54:06.239 --> 0:54:11.800
<v Speaker 2>with both parts of your heart. Is possible. It's possible

0:54:11.920 --> 0:54:15.080
<v Speaker 2>to be belonging to a group and seeing the group

0:54:15.160 --> 0:54:19.919
<v Speaker 2>a central element of your of your manifestation of life

0:54:20.080 --> 0:54:22.960
<v Speaker 2>in this world as part of it, and see humanity.

0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:26.600
<v Speaker 2>But that's what we need to teach. That's what we

0:54:26.680 --> 0:54:30.279
<v Speaker 2>need to teach. Is it easy? The answer is absolutely not.

0:54:30.600 --> 0:54:34.319
<v Speaker 2>Did we lose that next generation? I refuse to think

0:54:34.360 --> 0:54:40.440
<v Speaker 2>that we have has it been difficult for all of us?

0:54:40.920 --> 0:54:47.719
<v Speaker 2>I my study turned into a place of tears for

0:54:47.880 --> 0:54:51.200
<v Speaker 2>people who are grieving, grieving what has taken place, and

0:54:51.280 --> 0:54:54.879
<v Speaker 2>grieving their place in the world. We are in the threshold,

0:54:55.760 --> 0:55:00.640
<v Speaker 2>but I feel that will hold hands and even if

0:55:00.640 --> 0:55:04.400
<v Speaker 2>it's dark at times doesn't mean light. Light doesn't shine.

0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:07.919
<v Speaker 1>What a perfect place to leave it. Leave it there

0:55:08.000 --> 0:55:11.480
<v Speaker 1>with Rabbi Tina. Thank you so much for your time,

0:55:11.560 --> 0:55:15.640
<v Speaker 1>your words of wisdom. Thank you for watching. Make sure

0:55:15.680 --> 0:55:19.480
<v Speaker 1>you subscribe to our channel so you never miss a video. Also,

0:55:19.600 --> 0:55:22.799
<v Speaker 1>for more content just like this, please consider joining our

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0:55:28.680 --> 0:55:36.120
<v Speaker 2>Dudes to a bench whom you should think you