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Speaker 1: That there's not like this desperate need to like we

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Speaker 1: need you guys, Like I know you've gone a ton lately,

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Speaker 1: but we need you, we need you. That that's not happening.

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Speaker 1: Welcome into North Side Territory Foul Territories Cubs Podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma and with me is Patrick Mooney, where your

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Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers for the Athletic and we're gonna talk

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Speaker 1: all things Cubs for you guys. Patrick. The Cubs are

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Speaker 1: coming off a nice win in in Tampa after a

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Speaker 1: tough loss, another one of those brutal losses, but they

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Speaker 1: get that big hit, big win. Cody Bellinger sends one

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Speaker 1: into the seats late. Uh, they had just not been

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Speaker 1: getting those big hits with men on base second and third.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was two outs and I think it

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Speaker 1: was two outs with Ballenger up there. They were trailing

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Speaker 1: two to one. It just felt like, oh man, is

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Speaker 1: it is it gonna happen again? Where they get runners

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Speaker 1: on base, they get the right guys up to bat,

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Speaker 1: and they can't come up with a big hit. And

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Speaker 1: there were quite a few of those hard hit balls again. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's becoming a trend that that has to like drive

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Speaker 1: a manager crazy, but they eat out a win. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's no such thing as must win, but that just

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Speaker 1: felt like one of those where it was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: sigh of relief for a council in the Cubs when

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Speaker 1: it comes to where they are in the standings, how

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Speaker 1: things are doing, and just generally trying to get things

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Speaker 1: back on track.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it props to you for planning a Bellinger story

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Speaker 2: on the day he become the night he becomes the

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Speaker 2: hero much needed swing. And this goes back to what

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Speaker 2: we're talking about of like this guy's getting paid about

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Speaker 2: thirty million dollars I think it is this year. I mean,

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Speaker 2: he was even though he have the signing have been

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Speaker 2: in spring training he was a centerpiece idea of either

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Speaker 2: you have to bring him back or finding an equivalent

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Speaker 2: left handed bat, not to mention.

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Speaker 3: All the defensive versatility he brings to the table.

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Speaker 2: So he's he hasn't been like the primary culprit here.

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Speaker 2: He has a fine season overall, it just hasn't been

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Speaker 2: that like the slug.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't been MVP stretches. And I don't think we.

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Speaker 2: Need to get into whether or not this is some

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Speaker 2: sort of you know, game changer for him. But like

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Speaker 2: clearly we've been talking about it. They need more from Bellinger,

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Speaker 2: they need more from say It, they need these guides

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the order to produce, and for

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Speaker 2: one game at least they did. I know you'll be

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Speaker 2: getting into Hector Nares probably more in your coverage on

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Speaker 2: the athletic heres to hear at what point Council maybe

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Speaker 2: pivots off of that or doubles down, because clearly it's

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Speaker 2: going to take a while until they get some bullpen

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Speaker 2: reinforcements back in there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean that's like, here's the reality, Hector. This

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Speaker 1: isn't new with Hector Nare. Yeah, Like he has done

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Speaker 1: this when he's had even in his best seasons. Like

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Speaker 1: we have Megan Montemuro on the beat. She covered him

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Speaker 1: in Philly, and she kind of just watches it and

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Speaker 1: is like, Yep, I'm used to this. Like he does

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Speaker 1: this and a lot he gets out of it. A

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Speaker 1: lot of the time. It's still hard to watch and

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Speaker 1: and the Cubs fans have every right to freak out

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Speaker 1: and be stressed, and and the fact that this stuff

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Speaker 1: is kind of not where it was probably when Megan

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Speaker 1: was watching with Philly or when he was with Houston.

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Speaker 1: That is also a concern, but that's that's a topic

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Speaker 1: for another day. We'll dive into that in the future.

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Speaker 1: It definitely needs to be talked about. Patrick. Today, we're

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Speaker 1: taking questions from the fans. We we want to be

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Speaker 1: as interactive as possible. We want you guys to feel

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Speaker 1: like your concerns are heard on here and we'll discuss

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Speaker 1: as much as we can as far as reaction from

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Speaker 1: the fans. And and what what? What are the hot

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Speaker 1: button topics? Uh and and prime among them is Jed Hoyer.

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Speaker 1: We have a question from believe it's Sam, I am

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Speaker 1: and then another one from Brian A bunch of numbers

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Speaker 1: I'm going to describe him, and it's both about Jed Hoyer.

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Speaker 1: Is Jed Hoyer on the hot seat? What will it

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Speaker 1: take for him to be on the hot seat? And

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Speaker 1: another one was you know if you think Jed is gone?

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Speaker 1: Do you think Jed is gone if they don't make

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Speaker 1: the postseason this year? I'll let you take go ahead

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Speaker 1: and give your thoughts there first.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's fair to raise those questions. I

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Speaker 2: think we should address it in this forum. I personally

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Speaker 2: am not going to spend like you know, every loss

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Speaker 2: is like a referendum on Jed Hoyer, or every win

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Speaker 2: is like vindication for Jed, or you know, losing streak

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Speaker 2: winning streak, Like I think have to let this play out.

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Speaker 2: I will say this does remind me a little bit

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Speaker 2: of what happened with David Ross at the end of

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Speaker 2: last season of if you don't convert when you have

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Speaker 2: a chance to win, it opens the door to different

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Speaker 2: possibilities that you may not have expected and kind of

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Speaker 2: unpredictable actors can enter the situation. And so that I

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Speaker 2: think happened to David Ross last year. I mean, you know, September,

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Speaker 2: I think they're on pace for about ninety wins. I

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Speaker 2: think above ninety percent was their playoff percentage. You know,

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Speaker 2: Rossi's demeanor is feel how he had the pulse, really

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Speaker 2: seemed to be working and lining up. But when it

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Speaker 2: crashes that heart at the end. Even though I think

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Speaker 2: the outperformed expectations, you have to play the season in

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Speaker 2: front of you.

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 2: Right now, I think it's fair to look at this

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Speaker 2: roster and wonder, kind of should there be more at

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Speaker 2: this point? Given even though the Cubs don't spend the

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Speaker 2: nth degree, it's still around the luxury tax threshold. I

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Speaker 2: think you have to understand who the ownership group is,

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Speaker 2: and they've largely endorsed Jed Hoyer's plan. I think they

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Speaker 2: view him as someone who's good to work with and

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Speaker 2: who understands their priorities, and ultimately you have to execute

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Speaker 2: ownership's vision on this.

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Speaker 3: I think on the pro side, you have.

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Speaker 2: A really remarkable collection of young pitching that the Cups

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Speaker 2: have not had for a long time. And I do

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Speaker 2: think no matter how the season ends, you can point

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Speaker 2: to a lot of different things that will give you

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Speaker 2: optimism towards the future. There's a lot of flexibility coming

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Speaker 2: up here as well. No matter what they do with

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Speaker 2: the trade headline, there's a lot of money coming off

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Speaker 2: the books. There's a lot of interesting young players either

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Speaker 2: in the upper levels of the farm system or making

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Speaker 2: you know, close to the minimum on your major league roster.

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Speaker 2: And I think too, you know, you take over in

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Speaker 2: the middle of a pandemic and you're given orders to

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Speaker 2: cut spending, and Jed was a good soldier in that.

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Speaker 2: I think he largely you know, followed their directives and

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Speaker 2: I think they were very much in alignment on this

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Speaker 2: I think temperament wise in terms of their what they

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Speaker 2: value and prioritize on the free agent market. I think

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Speaker 2: getting Craig Council was a really good long term preservation

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Speaker 2: move of saying, this is our partnership, this is you know,

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Speaker 2: arguably the best manager in the majors. But yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: this team can't be under five hundred in one of

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Speaker 2: the worst divisions in baseball, right, I mean, it's at

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Speaker 2: a certain point you got to see the results, and

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Speaker 2: that's why this trade deadline. Heading into the final year

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Speaker 2: of his contract next year, there's just going to be

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Speaker 2: a lot more focus on this. It's come really fast.

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Speaker 4: This here ft is headed to the MLB All Star

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Speaker 5: I'm super pumped to hit the Futures Game this year.

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Speaker 5: That new skills competition looks electric.

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Speaker 4: I agree Kratz. It's like the Olympics for baseball. Cannot

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Speaker 1: You know, FT came through for the people.

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Speaker 1: Please. Yeah. I think ultimately you know that there's there's

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Speaker 1: some thing that fans want to point at Jed Hoyer

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Speaker 1: right now. And I get it. It's the next logical

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Speaker 1: step when there's frustration with the team on the field.

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Speaker 1: Right It's like, well, he's the one that you want

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Speaker 1: to blame the players, right, Well, he's the one that's

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Speaker 1: picking the players. So I get it. I get that

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Speaker 1: this hasn't worked. He's been saying this isn't to rebuild.

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Speaker 1: This is going to be a quicker turnaround. Okay, where

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Speaker 1: are the results that? Where's this quick turnaround. I also think,

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Speaker 1: like how much does everything change the narrative change if

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Speaker 1: they win two more games last year? Right, that's you know,

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Speaker 1: like suddenly you're not talking about like this is a

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Speaker 1: failed rebuild. They haven't made the playoffs, and it makes

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Speaker 1: our narratives much harder to write about, right Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: because we're not talking about them not making the playoffs

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Speaker 1: since in a full season, since twenty eighteen, and things

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Speaker 1: like that, there's there's not that that talking point is

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Speaker 1: knocked down, and there's a little bit of the pressure

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Speaker 1: taken off. But I don't think that absolves him. I

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Speaker 1: don't think you can say, like there's no pressure on

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Speaker 1: Jed Hoyer. I just don't think it's a middle of

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Speaker 1: the season thing. I really think you have to evaluate

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Speaker 1: the full season, see how this season goes. You know,

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Speaker 1: people were complaining about Saya Suzuki a couple of weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: and and he's pretty much putting up one of his

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Speaker 1: best seasons by this point. You know, just a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks later, he's he's, you know, a great offensive player.

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Speaker 1: Right now. You can complain about his defense, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's fair, But he's got a one twenty eight

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Speaker 1: Way runs great at plus he's he's having a very

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Speaker 1: good season. So these things change quickly. I would be

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Speaker 1: cautious about saying Jed has to be fired right now.

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Speaker 1: I think I also wonder, Look, Tom Ricketts isn't looking

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Speaker 1: for someone to spend all is money. He's not looking

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Speaker 1: for a team president to act like Aj Preller or

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Speaker 1: Dave Dombrowski, So so what. But there's also a little

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Speaker 1: bit of they are letting it be known that this

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Speaker 1: is Jed's team. Jed, I give him the budget and

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Speaker 1: he has suspend it how he sees fit. So it

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Speaker 1: is on him, right, they're making they've made that clearness,

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Speaker 1: like they've made that very clear. So if the time comes,

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Speaker 1: it's like, well, he didn't spend the money properly. I

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Speaker 1: guess my question becomes, so who's the person that takes over.

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Speaker 1: Is there some great front office exec? Is there Craig

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Speaker 1: Council available, Craig Council of the front office available? Is

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Speaker 1: Andrew Friedman available? Like does does Alex Nthopolis become available?

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Speaker 1: I don't think any of that stuff's happening, right, So

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Speaker 1: there's not like some elite front office like exec that's

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Speaker 1: already one a ton that has this experience. It says,

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Speaker 1: I have this history of winning. Wherever I go, I'm

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Speaker 1: this great uh like team president, and I want to

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Speaker 1: go to the Chicago Cubs that that person's not there. Like,

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Speaker 1: what Ricketts wants is kind of what Jed is doing

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Speaker 1: beyond the winning and the like. He wants someone that

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Speaker 1: follows his budget, that isn't going to badger him to

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Speaker 1: spend more and and just kind of like you know,

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Speaker 1: is doing what he wants with the money. Uh So

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Speaker 1: does it mean? Like I think if if Cubs fans

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Speaker 1: are angry about Jed Hoyer and and really want him fired,

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Speaker 1: I think what ends up happening is just someone that

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Speaker 1: does something similar to him becomes the the you know,

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Speaker 1: head of baseball operations. So it's not like someone you're

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Speaker 1: not getting someone that goes out and gets Juan Soto

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Speaker 1: and and trades for Vlad Junior and does all this

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Speaker 1: stuff and then sends the payroll to three hundred million dollars,

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Speaker 1: right that that's not happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I just think I'm glad we've discussed this. I don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily disagree with anything you said, but if say the

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Speaker 2: Cubs win one more one run game a month so

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Speaker 2: far April, May, June, they'd be thirty six and thirty two,

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Speaker 2: and we'd probably be talking about, you know, extension time

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Speaker 2: for Jet, like that would be where this is going

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Speaker 2: okay like that, And I just think Jet is extremely experienced,

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Speaker 2: deeply knowledgeable and connected. He's extremely organized and predictable in

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Speaker 2: a good way from an ownership perspective, and so you know,

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Speaker 2: I think there are time I get some of the

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Speaker 2: fatigue in terms of just how much the Cubs kind

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Speaker 2: of systems and infrastructures get overhyped, Like that gets old,

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Speaker 2: that gets annoying. I totally understand if you're listening to

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Speaker 2: this and rolling your eyes, But like what owners want

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Speaker 2: and what modern baseball organizations are in many ways.

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Speaker 3: Are this revolve around that.

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Speaker 2: And I think what Tom Rickets wants as a team

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Speaker 2: that's gonna win about eighty five games a year to

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Speaker 2: be like the Diamondbacks and now certain years you'll get

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Speaker 2: the bounces and that'll be ninety plus. Some years you

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Speaker 2: have more injuries and it's more like maybe seventy nine

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Speaker 2: wins whatever. But what Ricketts wants is sort of the

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Speaker 2: opposite of what happened after that World series of the

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Speaker 2: idea of the boom and bus cycles. That he wants

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Speaker 2: a steady supply of young talent, the flexibility to go

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Speaker 2: out and sign a big free agent, you know every year,

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Speaker 2: the trade chips and resources to make up grades at

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Speaker 2: the deadline. I mean, that's and in that regard, I

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Speaker 2: would have to say it's trending in that direction, you know.

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Speaker 2: And if you look at the circumstances in which he

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Speaker 2: inherited this job, there's a whole other episode if you

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Speaker 2: want to how much you want to pin on him,

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Speaker 2: since he was here since.

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Speaker 3: Twenty eleven, here a long time.

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Speaker 2: So if you're saying, you know, if some of your

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Speaker 2: issues are in player development or whatever, like the post

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Speaker 2: twenty sixteen phase, clearly he was a part of all

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Speaker 2: of that. But I think when you take all of

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Speaker 2: this together, I think he's a pretty comfortable choice from

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Speaker 2: ownership's perspective. And that's ultimately what matters, because we know

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Speaker 2: this ownership group, like, while they're aware of public perception

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Speaker 2: and certainly they want certain messages or images presented to

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Speaker 2: the public, like, they don't overreact. They're not like you know,

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Speaker 2: hounding him over roster moves, stay to day you know,

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Speaker 2: they very much play the long game. Let this play out,

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Speaker 2: and I think there's a baseline of competency and competitiveness

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Speaker 2: that Jed's group has instilled here.

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Speaker 3: And then ultimately, I think ownership really values.

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Speaker 1: That right and and ultimately, if the like just to

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Speaker 1: answer the questions like what does it take. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think if they bought him out this year and they're

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Speaker 1: a bad team by the end of the year, we

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Speaker 1: have to start talking about him being on the hot

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Speaker 1: seat at minimum, right like that, like that if they

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Speaker 1: just if they're not close things, just like, if it's

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Speaker 1: not injury related whatever it is, then then yeah, then

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Speaker 1: then that discussion starts. I think he has a year

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Speaker 1: left after this on his contract. Yeah, so so you

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Speaker 1: can start talking about it. Absolutely, But I don't think

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Speaker 1: this is like I get why it's a topic right now.

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Speaker 1: I just don't think he's like it's something that that

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Speaker 1: he needs to be concerned with unless the things just

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Speaker 1: continue to take a turn for the worse. Let's get

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Speaker 1: to a couple more here. This is from William Vogel.

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Speaker 1: Since the Brewers appear to be at least as good

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Speaker 1: as they were last year despite trading away their best Pitcher,

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Speaker 1: and the Cubs appear no better than they were in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three despite acquiring Shoda. Is it fair to

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Speaker 1: wonder whether Craig Council's value added is not all that high? J?

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Speaker 1: Marwitz seven says there's a tendency to describe poor defense,

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Speaker 1: base running fundamentals, etc. To the manager. I can't imagine

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Speaker 1: Jed fields that way. Where do you think they internally

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Speaker 1: assign blame to this? And where do you assign the blame? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So those are two manager questions we can take, you know,

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Speaker 1: take them however you want, separately together, but I'll start

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Speaker 1: it off Patrick, So to William, is it fair to

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Speaker 1: wonder whether Craig Council's value added is not all that high? Yeah? Sure,

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Speaker 1: it's fair to wonder that. I think you need to

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Speaker 1: You need to look at each thing, everything individually. Right,

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Speaker 1: this season has not come together in a way that

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Speaker 1: like the bullpen, the way that bullpen was last year,

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Speaker 1: the talent that they had last year, and how everything

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Speaker 1: came together was like, these are two separate seasons. These

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Speaker 1: are not. This isn't despite it feeling similarly at times,

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Speaker 1: the way things are going, it's different. It's very different.

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Speaker 1: What I'm watching on the field is very different, and

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Speaker 1: I don't put that on Craig Counsel. I just struggled

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Speaker 1: to I think Counsel is aware of the weaknesses of

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Speaker 1: his team. I think he's he's keenly aware of it,

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Speaker 1: and he's trying to do his best. He's trying to

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Speaker 1: He's also aware of like there's going to be like,

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Speaker 1: how can you put Christopher Morell at third is a

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Speaker 1: topic I hear a lot, like Counsel should have known

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Speaker 1: this was going to be bad. He's going to struggle

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Speaker 1: at third. Council did know there would be greenpaigns. He

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Speaker 1: under like he's not just looking at one day in

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Speaker 1: April and May of twenty twenty three. He's he's also

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Speaker 1: a twenty twenty four. Sorry I forgot what year it is. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He's he maybe maddening to fans to hear this, but

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Speaker 1: he also wants He's trying to think of the future

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Speaker 1: as well. It's not like he's not giving up on

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Speaker 1: the present for the future, but he's trying to kind

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Speaker 1: of blend it all together, and he understands that if

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Speaker 1: if Christopher Morrell can take leaps at third base, it

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Speaker 1: changes the dynamic of what you can do with the team. Uh,

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Speaker 1: So he's he's trying to it's it's not a perfectly

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Speaker 1: put together roster. They don't have a great third baseman,

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Speaker 1: third base option, so he's trying to figure out how

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Speaker 1: to use that offense and defense together. Think I do

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Speaker 1: think there's something to the idea that Council had elite

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Speaker 1: options in his bullpen over the years and and and

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Speaker 1: he doesn't right now. So I think I think we

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Speaker 1: touched on it. I don't think we were blind to

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Speaker 1: that fact coming into the season. Patrick, I'm pretty sure.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure we talked about it, and I like

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Speaker 1: I remember someone, if not one of us, asking counsel

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Speaker 1: and jed about it at the introductory conference like press conference,

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Speaker 1: like yeah, this just isn't this isn't out of the blue.

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Speaker 1: That helps a lot, having Josh Hader, having Devin Williams,

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Speaker 1: but he also had other like diamonds in the rough,

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Speaker 1: and there was there were things that he did that

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Speaker 1: media members or fans in Milwaukee scratched their head about

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Speaker 1: and it would work. Like he is, he is very

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Speaker 1: aware of how to use his bullpen. He doesn't really

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Speaker 1: have the horses right now, and that's that will make

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Speaker 1: any manager look bad. I do believe that in the

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Speaker 1: long run, over the course of the season, he really

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Speaker 1: knows how to handle his bullpen, how to he is.

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Speaker 1: This was something when I was defending David Ross last year.

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Speaker 1: I had a couple of Scout friends tell me, I

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Speaker 1: get where you're coming from. He is trying to push

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Speaker 1: all in because he has to. But there is something

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Speaker 1: to be said for knowing how to take your losses

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Speaker 1: in June and July so you win in August and September.

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Speaker 1: Ross pushed, pushed, pushed because he had he felt he

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Speaker 1: had to right, and he went a pedal to the

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Speaker 1: medal with the bullpen pretty much all summer long. Council,

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Speaker 1: it may sometimes you may wonder, like like yesterday, I

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Speaker 1: was wondering, does he go Mark Lighter instead of Nerris?

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Speaker 1: That it was lefty righty, lefty. I could see that

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Speaker 1: that that could make. But he clearly like whether it

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Speaker 1: was I need to give Lighter a break or I'm

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Speaker 1: sticking with Nerris. Whatever the decision was, he didn't right,

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Speaker 1: and I don't. I don't think he's going to grind

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Speaker 1: these guys into the ground. Yeah, I'm not ready to

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Speaker 1: start saying like Craig Council's just an average manager or

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Speaker 1: not impactful. I think what's going on in Milwaukee tells

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Speaker 1: me that is a well run organization. Yes, that's what

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Speaker 1: that tells me. They have like just like put him

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Speaker 1: up there with Tampa and Cleveland as the small market

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Speaker 1: teams that just get it and know like have everything.

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Speaker 1: Like what we were just talking about, what you were

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Speaker 1: just saying about what modern in front, not what owners want. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have that. They have that The Cubs want to

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Speaker 1: want that with the two hundred and whatever thirty million

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Speaker 1: dollar payroll, which which those teams don't have. Cleveland, Tampa,

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Speaker 1: Bay and Milwaukee don't have. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think what you articulated is kind of the feeling

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Speaker 2: in the clubhouse so that the council impact is supposed

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Speaker 2: to show up over the second half of the season,

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Speaker 2: and that is obviously to be determined. I will give

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Speaker 2: the Cubs credit for valuing the manager's position and like

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Speaker 2: bringing in somebody not like some nobody who's you know,

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Speaker 2: never played in the majors or never did the job before,

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Speaker 2: you know. And I think managers recently have been severely undervalued.

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Speaker 2: That's part of why Craig Council wanted to push the

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Speaker 2: bar higher for managers. I also think the council impact

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Speaker 2: can't be truly measured until after he has a full

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Speaker 2: season and an off season to implement what he wants.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this guy was hired. It was roughly between

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Speaker 2: Halloween and Thanksgiving, right, I mean, the Cubs essentially had

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Speaker 2: a coaching staff already in place, and they made a

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Speaker 2: few adjustments, additions whatever. You know, there were a lot

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Speaker 2: of injuries early in the year. When I asked Craig about,

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Speaker 2: you know, do you kind of wonder maybe if something

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Speaker 2: could be done differently, He's like, that's a fair question,

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Speaker 2: and he said, we haven't seen anything yet.

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Speaker 3: But I totally understand the question.

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Speaker 2: That's fair question, which in council speak to me says

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Speaker 2: like this is totally.

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Speaker 3: On my radar right now. I just don't know exactly

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Speaker 3: what we should do about it.

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Speaker 2: And maybe I'm taking a leap, but I do think

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Speaker 2: some of these things on the field, how they got

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Speaker 2: out of the gates this year, how they incorporate players,

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Speaker 2: how they evaluate acquisitions, like Counsel is going to have

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Speaker 2: his hands in like all of this, And so I

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Speaker 2: think the value whatever it is, will become a parent one.

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Speaker 1: Way or the other. Yeah, And just to to kind

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Speaker 1: of hammer home my point, Mark Lighter had been used

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Speaker 1: three of the past four days. Okay, that that's that

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Speaker 1: seems like a perfect time, like Council wanted to, wanted

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Speaker 1: to likely wanted to give him a day a day off.

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Speaker 1: We saw him talking to Lighter in the clubhouse. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what he was talking to him about

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Speaker 1: in pre game, but he's clear He clearly communicates with

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Speaker 1: them regularly and let him know, like you are down

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. I don't know that he said that yesterday,

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Speaker 1: the Lighter I'm saying, we do know that that that

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Speaker 1: type of stuff happens where it's very clearly communicated. That

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Speaker 1: always hasn't been the case. Not every manager is like that,

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Speaker 1: but this is he is like that. There's not like

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Speaker 1: this desperate need to like we need you guys, we like,

432
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: I know you've gone a ton lately, but we need you.

433
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 1: We need you. That that's not happening like sorry, you're down,

434
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: like I you feel fine, No, we need you find

435
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: in August. That type of stuff that as far is

436
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: the the tendency, like the poor defense, the base running

437
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: the fundamentals, look the base running, they're getting thrown out

438
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 1: on the bases that there there's been some egregious stuff,

439
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: but they also like some of it is you need

440
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: to be aggressive to to make things happen, right, Like

441
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: there's some aggression on the bass pats that that comes

442
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 1: with a lack of offense. So I think sometimes like

443
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: there are good teams that get thrown out on the

444
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: bases a lot, like they're they're like if you go

445
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: look at the outs on the bases leaderboards, it's like

446
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: the top six are going to be three bad teams

447
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: and three really good teams. We can we can have

448
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: the debate of where we age and the cups. Yeah, right,

449
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: right right. So it's like like I think it's hard

450
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: to just look at that and say they're a bad

451
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: base running team. I do think there have been some

452
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: head scratchers as far as, uh, things that happen on

453
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 1: the basis. Sometimes it's it's just on the players. Like

454
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 1: I've seen some stuff that that that's not coached, that

455
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: nobody's coaching that they're just like doing something boneheaded out there.

456
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: Uh So that's tough for me to like I'd have

457
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: to go through individual plays and say like that that's

458
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: a bad one, that's one that needs to be corrected,

459
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,680
Speaker 1: that that's one where the player is not thinking that

460
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: type of stuff. Yeah, you can say like, well, you

461
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 1: need to go over that. It's not like I mean,

462
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 1: we watch spring training. Council's there, he's he's talking, he's

463
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 1: doing everything that needs to be done. When you come

464
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: to poor defense. Listen, we touched on Morell being a

465
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:44,360
Speaker 1: third council knows this team has some deficiencies on defense.

466
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: He's trying, like there sometimes you need to like you

467
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: need to do things to make it like you sacrifice

468
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: defense for offense at times, right and right now, this

469
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: is a team that's looking for offense. So he's gonna

470
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: push things. Michael Bush has been playing second because of

471
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: Goes uh, you know, the injury that he's now playing through.

472
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: There's you know that, But counsel, I think that's.

473
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 2: I think that's yeah, that's the you know, maybe in

474
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 2: terms of evaluation or not being married to certain concepts

475
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 2: or players or I think he walked in. I didn't

476
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 2: think he was blown away by this team's defense before

477
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: the season he started, So I think that I think

478
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 2: I'm with you on base running. I think defense is

479
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: an area where you saw it in Milwaukee where he'd

480
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 2: be willing to kind of live with stuff for certain players.

481
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: And now Tim to you know, either develop enough on

482
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 2: the other side of the ball, and Chris Morrell sort

483
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: of had you know, offensively has defense hasn't pc A.

484
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 2: You know, it's certainly an interesting player. And I don't

485
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: know if he's up here, if Craig counsel is are

486
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: the manager.

487
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: Right, and and like he's willing to do it both ways, right,

488
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: He's willing to take the lumps on defense to get

489
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: better offense, but he's also willing to take the lumps

490
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: on offense to get better defense, like he did it

491
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: with Bryce Terran last year. Terraan has turned. I haven't

492
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: checked Terrang's stats lately, but he had pretty sod. His

493
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: offense was really good to start the season, and he

494
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 1: was dreadful last year on offense. But he gave them

495
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: an elite defender at a key position. And and uh

496
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,560
Speaker 1: that that's happening with the PCA. PCA makes things happen

497
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: on the bases too, so so he's not like while

498
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: if I went and looked at PCA's numbers, I don't

499
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: need to right now. I just I know they're not

500
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: good just surface level numbers, but like he brings value.

501
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: His defense is so good. He improves the team in

502
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: different ways. As far as the rest of it, you

503
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: know that they they don't. I think if you want

504
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: to assign blame there, that's where you just put it

505
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,719
Speaker 1: on the players and like sometimes trying to do too

506
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: much roster construction, whatever you want to do. That's that's

507
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: what it is. It'd be really hard for me to

508
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: say that's all on on Craig Council. I'm sure it

509
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: is something he wants that that needs to be tightened up.

510
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: All right, Let's let's get to the next questions here

511
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: Cubs from twenty three Cubs bears Bulls. When will the

512
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: Cubs stop overpaying for mediocre players to say that they

513
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 1: are spending and actually pursue and spend on types of

514
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: players that they have passed on Soto, Machado, Olsen, Freeman

515
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: and then Diesel three four to two six. Could the

516
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: Cubs jump the market and acquire a slugger? Which prospects

517
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,719
Speaker 1: do you feel will be traded? Okay, so those are

518
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: kind of different. I jumped the gun on those because

519
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: actually there's two prospect questions. So let's let's focus on

520
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: the overpaying mediocre players. Listen, you could say that they

521
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: have some money. I mean, you absolutely can say that

522
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: they have money that that's poorly spent.

523
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 4: Right.

524
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: They have dead money on Mancini, Tucker Barnheart, Drew Smiley's

525
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: making starters money, and he's he's a reliever. I think

526
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: Drew Smiley actually has some value on this team currently

527
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: just because of how their bullpen is built. He's he

528
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,600
Speaker 1: helps this team the rest of it. It's like it's

529
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 1: kind of like market value. I know fans want. Yeah,

530
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: I think the argument is, would you rather have like

531
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: above average players that are making like market value for

532
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: their production or do you want them to just go

533
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: all out and have like instead of spreading that around

534
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: because they have to, Like, I don't really want to

535
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: have the debate of they need how much money they

536
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: should be spending. Right, Let's let's assume that they have

537
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 1: the budget, and that's what we're not going to debate about.

538
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: They need to spend more. They have this budget, so

539
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: that means fewer players that you're spreading it around on,

540
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: but getting that stud Listen, I think they need to

541
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 1: get that stud I think they need to like I

542
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: agree with that. I don't think Saye Suzuki's an average player.

543
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: Ian Hap is struggling again and that needs to be

544
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: brought up. Is that a bad contract? Is that? Is

545
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 1: that was that extension? Smart listen, that's a debate worth having.

546
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: Jameson Tai On somehow is still being brought up as

547
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: a bad contract. It's been a year now of him

548
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: being better than the league average when it comes to ERA.

549
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: That's that's what you pay for starting pitching. He's not

550
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: an ace, but he's he logs innings and he gives

551
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: you a chance to win every single time out. And

552
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 1: he's got like a three ish e RA since the

553
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: start of July last year. So that I don't think

554
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: like they're getting what they wanted from him. You know

555
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: that there's other than that, Like where are these dreadful

556
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: I guess you can point to Dansby, Did you want

557
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: Carlos Korea? Did you want Xander Bogarts, did you want

558
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 1: I can't remember who the other options were if they went.

559
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: If you go two years the year prior to signing Dansby,

560
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 1: Corey Seeger, you can make all those arguments. I get it,

561
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: Make all those arguments if you want. I think they

562
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 1: they focused on Dansby for defense, uh, in tangible reasons

563
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 1: and a little bit. They weren't looking for superstar offense,

564
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: but averaged its slightly above and and that that that's

565
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: how they were looking at it, especially with the idea

566
00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: that this is a this is a guy that's going

567
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: to stick it short for the majority of the seven

568
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 1: year deal.

569
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those other deal I mean Zanner, they weren't

570
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: even on it. Xander Bowler, like they did not really

571
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: want him. So then you're saying, you know, Korea's medicals,

572
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 2: you know a question mark, you know, senior year before. Okay,

573
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 2: I can I could see that to an extent trade turner.

574
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: It sounds like really wanted the Phillies and that contract

575
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: was nowhere near what the Cubs were willing to pay.

576
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 2: And I think it's just, you know, I think this

577
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 2: is where this trade deadline is gonna really be defining

578
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 2: for this group of the farm system is a lot better.

579
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: It's interesting, but where's the star. I feel like we've

580
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: had this conversation for years now of where's the Chris

581
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 2: Bryant or even a Kyle Schwarber, Hovey bias, Hobby bias.

582
00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: If you'll remember back then, not who is now one

583
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 2: of like the worst UH hitters in baseball?

584
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 3: But like where is that star?

585
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 2: And now maybe we got to rethink some of this

586
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: of like Showda Justin Steele are like pretty close to

587
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 2: all star level Cy Young caliber pictures. Like if if

588
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: that is real, if that sustains itself, then maybe we

589
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 2: think about the Cubs a little differently. And I'm just

590
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: saying this is where we talked about it the other day.

591
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: If you see an opportunity to get someone that you

592
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 2: think can be that guy in the lineup, I think

593
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 2: you got to go for it. I do not look

594
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 2: around and see lots of old Cubs prospects, you know,

595
00:34:58,120 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 2: getting asked will you wear a Cups hat into the

596
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame? Like that's just not really the reality

597
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 2: right now. And I think that kind of segues into

598
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: part of I guess the second half of Diesel's questions,

599
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: which prospects do you feel will be traded?

600
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 3: And then I don't know if I'm pronouncing this right.

601
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 3: Thirty two wreath, who are the untouchable prospects?

602
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: You know?

603
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 3: They need superstars that comes externally.

604
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: They needed a power back last season, decided to run

605
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: back again the same groups.

606
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: Is not a.

607
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 2: Surprise, but in reality they need two bout power bats

608
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 2: to balance this lineup. Out thoughts question mark to use Sahada.

609
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, the which prospects do I feel

610
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: will be traded and which prospects are untouchable? I think,

611
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you want to talk untouchable, I don't

612
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: love that word. But who do I Who would I

613
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: be surprised if they moved? I mean, let's consider Peter

614
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 1: Armstrong still a prospect. I'd put him in that group

615
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: with Matt Shaw and Kate Horton, and there's probably one

616
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 1: other that, like I'm kind of missing, but I wouldn't

617
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 1: like they're not there yet, They're all on, Like you know,

618
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: the precipice of like who do you want to keep

619
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: this guy? Like do you not want to move Jefferson

620
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: Rojas because he's your future in the middle of the infield?

621
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like those types of things are too

622
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 1: too way too early to discuss in my opinion yet, Like,

623
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 1: if you find the right move, you need to I

624
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: think everyone else is available in a like in a

625
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: in the right move. And again we said this last podcast,

626
00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: these guys, you don't just move some like a top

627
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 1: one hundred and top fifty prospect for Pete Alonzo for

628
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: two months of Peter Alonzo. That this does not happen anymore.

629
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: It just does not. So so like saying Owen Casey

630
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: for Pee Alonzo, that doesn't happen in today's game, like

631
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 1: they just that would be a massive overpay. You want

632
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: to talk about upside low a guy for Peter Alonzo,

633
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 1: I get it, okay, talking.

634
00:36:58,320 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 3: About it in a heart beat.

635
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: Yes, that that's how Yeah, that's how. That's how it

636
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: works nowadays. Uh in the Cubs, it worked for the Cubs, right,

637
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: they traded They got Kevin Alcntra for Anthony Uh for

638
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: Anthony Rizzo. So like that's that was an upside a

639
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: ball guy. And with talking about Kevin al Contra, I

640
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: like Kevin Contra a lot he is. He has turned

641
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: himself into a type of player that everyone thought was

642
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: going to end up in a corner outfield spot. And

643
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 1: now they're saying, is a plus defender in center field

644
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: who is raw with power in the bat? You know,

645
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,879
Speaker 1: is he red hot? Is he tearing up double A. No,

646
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: but he's an above average bat that that has more

647
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 1: in the tank, that is still developing and can play

648
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 1: center field. Guess what centerfield may be taken if they,

649
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:53,280
Speaker 1: like I just said, I don't think they're moving Pete Armstrong.

650
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: That's a ton of value that you'd be leaving, leaving

651
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 1: on the table if you try and keep him and

652
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: put him in a corner. Right, because if he can

653
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 1: play above average center field, I don't know that he's

654
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,360
Speaker 1: on like that they've had any discussions. I'm not saying

655
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: that he is getting traded, but that's the type of

656
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: thing you're you're looking at James Treanto's where are they

657
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: going to play him? These guys are like, like I said,

658
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:20,160
Speaker 1: like like we wrote in our trade Deadline primer, like

659
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 1: we said last episode, like sometimes you just have to

660
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: like say, like it's time to start moving guys Brennan Davis,

661
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,479
Speaker 1: Alexander Canario, BJ Murray, these lesser uh, these non top

662
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,280
Speaker 1: one hundred guys that are probably gonna make the major

663
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 1: leagues soon, Like look at those guys as well. But

664
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,800
Speaker 1: the rest it's like, yeah, I don't think they're gonna

665
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: move Moys's Biasteros, right, like, if they think you can

666
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 1: stick a catcher, they probably want to keep him. Pablo

667
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: a Lando though maybe they move him. Things like that.

668
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: I think you need to start looking at like the

669
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: names and and and the players and and you know,

670
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: as far as untouchables, they're just not that many, but

671
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: they are there, and I think we I think it's

672
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: not crazy to say it's PCA, Kate Horton, Matt Shaw,

673
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,760
Speaker 1: Like they really like those guys. They like the others.

674
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: But it's just like, maybe you know, to get that

675
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: superstar bat like everyone's talking about, or to get whatever

676
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: it is, that difference maker. I just think, you know,

677
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: you have to start considering moving some of the bigger names.

678
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: I think this question here from MJM eighteen thirty four

679
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 2: is a good place to wrap things up because it

680
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: touches on both the beginning of Jed Hoyer's tenure as

681
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 2: President of Baseball Operations and also some of these untouchables

682
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: or you know, bubble prospects who are just discussing with

683
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: the Cubs. Being involved in Vladimir Guerrero junior trade rumors,

684
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,440
Speaker 2: the Cubs obviously have to cough up some prospects. Looking

685
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: back on the Darvis trade. How would you grade that trade?

686
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 2: Seems like one p prospect in four years has panned out.

687
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 3: I would give it a C at best.

688
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 2: I personally would give it an F just because of

689
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: its origination was from a cost cutting perspective. The Cubs

690
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 2: had an extreme reaction to the financial losses during the pandemic,

691
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,560
Speaker 2: and really coming off a division title when you have

692
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: a guy who is getting cy young votes and there

693
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: was essentially a one team market at that point of

694
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 2: Darvish I believe had some not trade protections. Preller and

695
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 2: his ownership group was really the only one that was

696
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 2: like into the idea of giving up prospects and taking

697
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 2: on that much money. To me, it was just a

698
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:55,759
Speaker 2: flawed process that Jed tried to make the best of

699
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: And the best prospect amongst.

700
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 3: That group is the aforementioned.

701
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 2: Oh In Casey, who's now a triple A IOWA and

702
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 2: is knocking on the door.

703
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 3: And I think you're right about the untouchable stuff.

704
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: He's not quite there, but he's also someone who they

705
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 2: think maybe could help this year, Like it's not totally

706
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 2: out of the question. And once you're like across that threshold,

707
00:41:17,080 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: it's really hard to trade a guy like that in

708
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 2: the middle of the summer, particularly for the rental player

709
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: you described.

710
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 1: Side if Yeah, absolutely, I yeah, I mean I get

711
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: where you're coming from with that, and I wouldn't argue

712
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: with you that much. Like it's a it's I think

713
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,720
Speaker 1: the tweeter is is right that it's see at best

714
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:42,760
Speaker 1: if you want to be generous, Yeah, I mean grading

715
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 1: if you're grading on the curve. Because of the context

716
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: of what you said there, like he's Jet had to

717
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 1: make that trade at that point because like it seemed

718
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: like ownership basically was saying, like you need to you

719
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: need to make some moves here to cut some costs,

720
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: right like that, It wasn't it.

721
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,800
Speaker 2: Would have been something else. Boxton place while while making

722
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: that you and I think it's impossible to make a

723
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 2: great deal when you're under the right.

724
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: That's that's exactly what it is. They should have waited

725
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:15,600
Speaker 1: till the deadline on that one UH to make that move,

726
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 1: and they would have gotten a much better haul for him,

727
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: I believe. And I had scouts telling me that at

728
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: the time that we're confused, and and and the consensus

729
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: everyone came to is like Jad's hands were tied and

730
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: he did the best with a bad situation. I don't

731
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: think that was I like that you nailed everything there.

732
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 1: There was no nobody else like the Padres were like

733
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: a lot of people in baseball were talking about, like

734
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: there's going to be a team or two that's really

735
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: smart and takes advantage of this market. Nobody else is

736
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: being aggressive because everyone's terrified about financials, when when the

737
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: reality is everyone knew like financials would eventually get better.

738
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: They knew that. They just decided that they used an

739
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,360
Speaker 1: excuse to like cut and and it was like, you know,

740
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 1: the Padres were the beneficiaries at that time, and they

741
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: got they got darbish for a steal. And you know,

742
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 1: I think Owen Casey is a good, really good prospect,

743
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: and there there are arguments to be made, and this

744
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 1: is kind of how we can wrap this up. But listen,

745
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:24,560
Speaker 1: I think a big thing that we'll have to watch

746
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 1: going forward as long as as Jed Hoyer is running

747
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 1: this team. Something he learned and something he feels strongly

748
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 1: about is you sometimes have to trade players before their peak,

749
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 1: you know, before they their value completely collapses. So trade

750
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 1: like you darbish even in middle of contention time. You know,

751
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: I'm not saying middle of the year, but I'm saying

752
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: like in off seasons where like even next offseason, like

753
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 1: the Brewers did it with Corbyn Burns. Right. I'm not

754
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: saying that it'll be to that extent, but there are

755
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 1: going to be more moves like that. And of course,

756
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: if Jed Hoyer is running this team, he believes in that.

757
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 1: He thinks they held onto guys too long with the

758
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: original core and the twenty sixteen corps, and I just

759
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: think that like that you darbish trade. The way he

760
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 1: kind of looked at it as like the way he

761
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: felt he could justify it is look, you, when you

762
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: sign a player, you're signing them to like a gigantic deal.

763
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: You're signing them for the first half of that deal.

764
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: So if you can get value and trade them for

765
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,919
Speaker 1: the second half of that deal, that's not the worst

766
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: thing that can happen. In theory, that's supposed to be

767
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: the worst years of those cont of that contract. I'm

768
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 1: pretty sure Darvish was great, good to great for the

769
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: remainder of that contract. He's on an extension now, so

770
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 1: it's a different deal. But that's These are the types

771
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: of things like prepare yourself for at some point there's

772
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: going that's going to happen again where they trade someone

773
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: that you're like, really, they're trading that dude, and it's

774
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,760
Speaker 1: going to like if they do it right, it works, fine,

775
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: you won't. But by the time the season, by the

776
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: time you're in June July, that next season, you're like, oh, okay,

777
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 1: I get it now. Uh that was a smart move.

778
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,439
Speaker 1: That's that's what the great teams do. I'm not sure

779
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: the Dodgers and Yankees do that, but you know, you

780
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: may have to. You may have to see them acting

781
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: like a different type of team. I'm not saying that's it,

782
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:24,279
Speaker 1: that's definitely happening or or like anytime soon. They have

783
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: to start winning first, they have to become that good piece, yes,

784
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: to start for fans to be angry that they're trading

785
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: away they're good players. Yeah, So they're not there yet.

786
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: The you know, let's let's see if they even get there. Uh.

787
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: I actually I enjoyed this episode Patrick. It was a

788
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 1: it's it's good to let the fans vent and and.

789
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 3: Hear what they have to say. For sure, I think

790
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 3: a regular thing too.

791
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's good for us too to

792
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 1: hear what you guys are thinking, making sure that we're

793
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: on the right topics and that you know, we can

794
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 1: think through this stuff, because like sometimes we were so

795
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: deep in the the weeds with this stuff that we

796
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: forget what what what's kind of bugging you guys. So

797
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: so thanks for reaching out, Thanks for sending in your questions.

798
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 1: Make sure to rate, review, subscribe, do all that good

799
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: stuff wherever you get your podcast. This is north Side Territory,

800
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: read Patrick in my work at the Athletic. Uh, we're

801
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:28,399
Speaker 1: going to continue covering this team, good or bad. Uh,

802
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: there's going to be so much coverage. You know, this

803
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: team is always interesting. Uh, you know, sitting there late

804
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 1: innings like, dear god, how how do they like? They're

805
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: they're making us change our stories, you know, minute to minute. Yeah.

806
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: So so it's fun to cover, even if it's exhausting

807
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: for you fans. Thanks for listening, Thank you for reading.

808
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,480
Speaker 1: This is north Side Territory. Everyone, take care,