WEBVTT - I'm Allowed False Hope You S.O.B. 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:06.160 Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio the George 0:00:06.200 --> 0:00:10.720 Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty arm Strong 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:24.639 and Gatty and he Armstrong and Getty. You don't know, 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:26.920 how's it going? Glad you're here. And we mentioned a 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:27.600 couple of weeks ago. 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.920 October means the Supreme Court's back in session. First Monday 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.319 in October they start back up again. I've already had 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.920 questions about that. We welcome to the studio. Actually in 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.680 the studio, Tim Sanderfer of the Goldwater And so. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:44.200 Now I have to admit the only reason I came 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:46.479 down to the studio was for your life size cardboard 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:50.360 cutout of Taylor Swift, which we do have. Yeah. No, 0:00:50.479 --> 0:00:51.839 it's great to be back. It's been a long time 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:53.600 since I've been in here. It's nice to see it. 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.360 Why does the Supreme Court take a break? Why don't 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.480 they work year round? And they had so many cases 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:03.280 between June and October this year. Why don't they just 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:05.919 stay in session year around like other people with jobs. 0:01:06.080 --> 0:01:08.880 In one sense, they do. They do sort of work 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.880 all year round because they're always on call for emergency 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.600 cases and things like that. But the term that begins 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.680 in October and ends in late June. Right before the 0:01:17.760 --> 0:01:21.200 July fourth break is when they hear oral arguments and 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:24.240 issue decisions, and they try to get all of the calendar, 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:26.080 all the decisions that on the calendar issued by the 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.600 end of that of that session. And most state Supreme 0:01:29.640 --> 0:01:32.480 courts do not do that. The most, like California Supreme 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.959 Court is always in session. But it's just an old tradition. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:38.280 I think the justice is like their summer vacation time 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.040 they get to go on these junkets to foreign countries, 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.800 or they teach classes for some law school that hosts 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.120 an event in Spain, and you know, it's kind of 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:48.680 a just the way they've done things, and you know 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:50.760 in the law, if they've done things for a long time, 0:01:50.920 --> 0:01:53.920 that becomes legal. Right. 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:59.680 Interesting, So this particular Supreme Court session, what are cases 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.800 that you're excited about? And as you always point out, 0:02:02.080 --> 0:02:05.400 what cases they decide to take as big as the rulings. 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:07.800 Yeah, that's right. And because they don't have to hear 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.520 every case, they can choose to take a case or not, 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:12.200 and in fact, they only take about one percent of 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:16.040 all the cases that they are asked to decide. Yeah, yeah, 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:18.519 and fewer every year, really, And how do they vote 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.600 on that? Is that just a majority five for it's 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:22.959 four justices, so there's nine of them. If four of 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:24.560 them say they want to hear a case, then they 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:26.760 go ahead and together the case on the theory that 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:28.480 you might swing one vote one way or the other. 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.160 But the one good point, the one that really stood 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.800 out just this week is on Monday, the Supreme Court 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:38.200 said that they want to hear a case, well, a 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.080 few justices said they want to hear a case about 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:44.119 parental rights, and in particular these cases that are popping 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:48.600 up all over the country of schools deciding to transition 0:02:48.880 --> 0:02:51.680 a student from male to female or female to male 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:55.320 and then conceal that information from a parent. And we 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:57.640 at the Goldwater Institute, in fact, are litigating one of 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.000 these cases. We file the petition the Supreme Court that 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.080 we're waiting for them to decide whether to take this 0:03:04.160 --> 0:03:07.560 case or not. Out of Maine, where a school district 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:12.600 in Maine decided to take our client's child and give 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:17.440 this child a a device to restrain her breast so 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.960 that she would look male when putting a shirt on. 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.280 Was a teenager and gave this child two of these 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.560 and then said to the to the child, well, we 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:30.840 don't we won't tell your parents, and you don't have 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:35.000 to tell your parents. And then and so this would 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:37.320 lose my mind. Can you imagine? Can you imagine? These 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:39.240 are these schools are supposed to be You're supposed to 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.560 be entrusting these schools to take care of your kids 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.760 while teaching them reading, writing, arithmetic, and history, and and 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.320 that's that's what they're supposed to be doing. And instead 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:49.600 they've taken this very I'm sure they think of it 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.360 as very proactive and protective, but I would call it 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:58.360 aggressive approach in actively trying to withhold information from parents, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:01.200 and the kind of information that is really central to 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.200 a parent raising a child. I mean, psycho sexual development 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.000 of a teenager is something a parent needs to be 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.160 there to help a child through. And the schools are saying, no, no, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.480 you shouldn't have a say in the matter. And well, 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:13.560 the U. S. Supreme Court has said in the past 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:18.200 the parents have a fundamental constitutional right to control the 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.960 education and upbringing of their children. And so we say 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:23.600 that what the school did violated that constitutional right, and 0:04:23.640 --> 0:04:25.760 we've asked the Supreme Court to take that case. Well, 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.080 what happened on Monday was that Justice as Alito, Thomas, 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:33.640 and Gorsich issued a dec issued in an order, you know, 0:04:33.800 --> 0:04:36.000 it wasn't a ruling, but issued an order saying we 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:38.760 would really like to hear a case like this. There 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.560 was another case similar facts to Court decided not to 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.200 take the case, but they said, well, we would like 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:46.320 to hear a case along these lines. And they're going 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:50.360 to have to eventually. I mean, as the regulatory state 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:54.039 expands its control, and as the teachers' unions can expand 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:56.880 their control, and as the state increasingly things that it 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.200 knows better than you do how to raise your kids, 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.520 you're going to find more and more and more of 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:04.880 these conflicts. And there has to be a limit, a 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:07.000 line drawn to protect the rights of parents to raise 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:07.360 their kids. 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:09.960 And if the Supreme Court decides that now you can't 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:11.720 do they can't keep that sort of stuff secret from 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.159 the parents, Will that have tentacles beyond just try and stuff. 0:05:15.360 --> 0:05:17.880 Oh oh, definitely it will. And in fact, they've sort 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.800 of already did started doing this. So last term, the 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:26.360 Court decided a case about schools that were teaching lessons 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:32.920 to kids about sexuality like same sex, marriages, transsexuals, et cetera, 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.640 et cetera. In and this was very young kids. I 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.680 don't remember exactly, but you know, elementary and pre elementary's 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.200 kids in Virginia. And the question in that case was 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:45.520 do the parents have a constitutional right to opt their 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:47.800 kids out to say, I just don't want my kids 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.320 to go through these these lessons? And the Supreme Court 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:52.720 said yes they do. Now, the reason that you do 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:55.440 have that constitution right, and the reason that's important is 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.120 because there's been this question among lawyers and judges over 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.279 the level of how far does the parent's right to 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.040 protect and direct the upbringing of a child, How far 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.120 does that extend? Does it stop when you choose what 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:10.960 school to send your kid to, Because that's what a 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:13.520 lot of courts have said, a lot like circuit courts 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.480 of appeals have said, well, yes, you have a constitution 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.960 right to control the education of your child, but once 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.160 you've chosen what school to send your kid to, that's 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:22.920 the end of it. Then it's up to the school 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:24.760 that you know that the you we can and that 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:26.440 makes sense because you can't have parents going in there 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:29.360 and vetoing everything that a public school wants to do 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.240 you know, have a Heckler's veto over the entire curriculum 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:34.440 of a school. I can see why they're concerned about that, 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:37.520 but it also it can't be the case that your 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:39.520 parents your rights as a parent end once you send 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.000 your kid to the public school and then they can 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.240 do whatever they want. And sure enough, in this Virginia case, 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.240 the Supreme Court said, no, a parent's rights do not 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.120 end at the schoolhouse gate. Well, if that's true, then 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:51.280 that the same applies to these situations where schools are 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.320 concealing vital information from parents about how their kids are developing. 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.320 What's that quote you always have from the early twentieth century, 0:06:58.360 --> 0:06:59.720 Progressive is about schools? 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:02.839 And oh yeah, well, you know the progressive thought of 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:07.479 public education as a means of shaping the minds of 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.160 of kids. And Woodrow Woodrow Wilson. Am I living through 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.280 that right now totally? And Woodrow Wilson, who you know, 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.160 he was the only president with a PhD. He was 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:19.480 like a college president before he became President of the 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.200 United States. He was a leading progressive intellectual. He has 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:23.880 this speech where he says that the goal of the 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.400 school is to make the child as unlike the parent 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.720 as possible, and that was so great. It's a very 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:32.760 extreme way of putting it. But you s, what they 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.600 were thinking is, well, they were like, the problems, all 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.480 the tensions and difficulties that we have in America, those 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.559 can be resolved by taking all the kids and putting 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:42.920 them together and teaching them, you know, how to be 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.360 good citizens. Which maybe that sounds good to you in 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:47.360 the abstract, but the problem is what do you mean 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:48.680 by good citizens? All right? Yeah? 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:53.800 The problem the problem with that, obviously is they have determined, 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.080 we have figured out what is best for all of 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.800 you know, America, and that's what we're going to teach kids. 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:04.560 And fortunately there are alternatives. There's school choice programs throughout 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.360 the country that parents can take advantage of to get 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:11.360 their kids into schools that are tailor made or a 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.840 tailor designed for their kids. And especially in my home 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.640 state of Arizona, we have a wonderfully successful program, the 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:22.760 Empowerment Scholarship Account Program, where a parent can decide what 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.480 schools to send their kids to and get them out 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:28.920 of failing public schools or public schools that aren't serving 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.320 their kids needs, maybe their kids have special needs or 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.040 that are abusing their power in these ways, and what 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:36.480 we need is more school choice, more power in the 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:38.599 hands of parents, and less power in the hands of 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.880 bureaucrats who again think that they know better than you 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:43.880 do how your kids ought to be raised. 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:46.800 You and your wife are committed to non child people, 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:50.439 But it would be so awesome if you had kids, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.680 just because I can imagine, I mean, because you get 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:54.920 fired up about this on behalf of other people's kids. 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.720 I can't imagine if your kids. It's a scary thought. 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.000 I had not thought of it till you mentioned that. 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.559 But you're right, I can't imagine. You mean a school 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.640 board meeting. I was, well, I just think about how 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:07.960 I was when I was in school. I was already 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.720 a kind of a nonconformist when I was forced to 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.079 go to the government schools, and I made life pretty 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.559 pretty hell for my parents my teachers when I was 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.160 in school, So I can imagine what I would do 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:19.160 if it was my kid. 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.120 Well, I promised to get back to the Supreme Court stuff. 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:24.880 But tim was helpful to me and my story of 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:28.920 my son taking a public school American history class and 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.440 on day one having to write a land acknowledgment about 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:36.640 the tribe that had owned the land board the school. 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:40.560 Was and how we should all feel so horrible about that? 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.240 Who and that tribe probably stole it from some other tribe, 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:46.640 and that tribe stole it from some other tribe. I mean, 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:49.960 I would I just pray for the day when somebody 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:53.640 requires somebody to do a land acknowledgment for the Commanchee, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:58.679 you know, the most aggressive imperial power in Native America 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:03.720 that just slought or countless other tribes and stole their land. 0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.560 And yet now you know, and somebody does this land 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:09.719 was once possessed by the commanche you know, And I 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:11.680 would love to see that. Yeah, that's amazing. 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.160 They must not do this in Europe, right, the land acknowledgement, 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:16.600 because it'd be impossible if you had a square foot 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.319 of France, right or Germany? 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.040 I mean, how in the hell would you do This 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:21.920 land used to belong to Germany and then Russia and 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:23.800 then Germany and then France and then Germany and then Russia. 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:29.120 And yeah, it would be very, very complicated. What other 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:30.800 Supreme Court cases are you excited about this? 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.640 Well, the there's an important gun rights case that's going 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.679 to go up there, and and this case is it's 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:40.120 it's kind of tough as an intellectual matter, at least 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.720 as I think so. And that is so, the state 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.120 of Hawaii passes a law that says you're not allowed 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:49.200 to bring a gun onto private property without the express 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:54.559 permission of the owner. Now, on one hand, that makes 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.200 sense to me, because I wouldn't bring a gun into 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.600 my friend's house without saying, Hey, by the way, I 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:01.200 have a gun, is it okay with you if I 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.800 bring it into the house. But on the other hand, 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.800 the reason this law has passed was because most people 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.640 are probably not going to put up a sign on 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:10.360 their houses is it's okay for you to bring a 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.480 gun on this property something? And so it's kind of 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.520 a clever way of preventing people from carrying guns anywhere. 0:11:15.640 --> 0:11:19.240 Oh okay, right. And so the question presented in the 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.400 case is to what level can the state manipulate this 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:27.360 sort of baseline rule, this the default rule of whether 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.360 you're allowed to with with as long as nobody forbids you, 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:33.280 or whether you're not allowed to unless you get express permission. 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.000 And that's a tough question. Opt in opt out stuff 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.640 always drives me crazy. Who decides which which it's going 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:39.240 to be right. 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:42.000 And so now the court has been pretty good about 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:46.760 protecting gun rights, but there are some contray examples. There 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.520 have been some cases that where the court has not, 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.439 you know, been as aggressive in protecting these rights as 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.600 I would like. And so I do worry about them 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.280 setting a decision here that's gonna weaken the right to 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.800 possess firearms. But on the other hand, property rights, I 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:02.080 have a right to decide whether some sure the property 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:03.400 brings it out of my property or on. 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:06.120 The course of course, I got questions about that and 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:07.760 other stuff with Tim sanderf for coming up on and 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:09.600 tell you about price picks. 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So, for instance, Steph Curry playing basketball, you 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:38.520 could take zero points three pointers and assists you could 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:40.400 pick all three of them in the same lineup only 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:41.880 on Price Picks to make money. 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:42.640 This is what you do. 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:44.600 You download the Price Picks up today, use the code 0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.320 Armstrong to get fifty dollars in lineups after you play 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:49.960 your first five dollars lineup. That code is Armstrong to 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:51.800 get fifty dollars in lineups after you play your first 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:54.280 five dollars lineup Price Picks. It's good to be right, 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:56.720 and you can stick around for a little while time. Yeah, 0:12:57.080 --> 0:12:57.839 look forward to that. 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:04.880 All on the way stay here are Strong and. 0:13:03.000 --> 0:13:05.280 Tim Sander is thankfully committed to sticking around for a 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.280 little while talking about these Supreme Court cases or various 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:09.240 state cases. 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:10.120 But we're just discussing. 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:11.640 One of the reasons I think Tim is a fan 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.920 favorite has been for many years on The Armstrong and 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.160 Getty Show is your ability to explain these complicated cases 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.160 in a way that's normal people like us can understand. 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:21.920 You know. I think part of the reason for that 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.319 is that I was never a very good student in school, 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.480 and so the teacher would get up there and lecture 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.400 about something I wouldn't get it, so I'd have to 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:31.800 go out and learn it. Myself, so I would pull 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:34.000 down the book and read it myself, and that's how 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.080 I got it. And so I know how I learned 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.400 this stuff, and so when I explained it to other people, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.360 I tell them the way that I figured it out 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.920 as opposed to the way that it's normally talked about 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.319 in other circles. And I think that might be part 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.480 of the reason that is really interesting. Have you ever 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:50.520 thought about teaching in the law school. I have taught 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.600 a couple classes. I've taught a class at McGeorge and Sacramento. 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:56.920 I taught a class at George Mason in Virginia. I 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:00.520 just taught a class two years ago at Arizona State University. 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:02.680 So I have taught a couple times and all bit 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:05.080 the students loved it. Well, I don't know, you have 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.040 to ask them, but it was a lot of work. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.120 That's the thing. I felt sorry for my law professors 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:13.839 in retrospect because I had not realized when I was 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:15.600 a student how much work it really is. That you 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:16.360 have to just do it. 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.319 Once and then you're written, and then you could keep 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:19.920 doing the same spiel for the next. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:21.760 Yeah, thirty years. Yeah, I suppose you could, you know, 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:23.520 just update your outline as you go. That is true. 0:14:23.560 --> 0:14:25.200 But on the other hand, you would think that speaking 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.120 for two hours is twice as hard as speaking for 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:29.440 one hour, and actually it's like fifty times. How I 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:32.560 want speaking for an hour. It's keeping the students' attention 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:34.840 and not being boring. That's the thing I just dread 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:35.480 being boring. 0:14:35.600 --> 0:14:38.840 Yeah, yeah, yeah, tell me about it. We call that 0:14:38.840 --> 0:14:42.360 flop sweat in radio business, when you start feeling, Okay, 0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:46.720 this is not working. So how did vaping become a 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:47.240 court case? 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.600 Look at? So? One of the things that makes the 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.360 Goldwater Institute where I work, unique is that we try 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.440 to focus on state constitutions, on the rights that are 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.560 protected by your state constitution, which a lot of people 0:14:57.560 --> 0:14:59.320 forget about. They'll talk about the Bill of Rights and 0:14:59.320 --> 0:15:01.960 they forget about the fact that your state constitution protects 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:05.680 more rights typically than does the federal Constitution. So we 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:08.400 like to go to state supreme courts to defend state 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:11.240 constitutional rights. And we have a case pending in the 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:13.200 Oregon Supreme Court. In fact, it was just argued a 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.800 couple of days ago about the freedom of speech under 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.160 the state constitution, and it involves a state law that 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.920 makes it illegal to package vaping products in a manner 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.640 that quote might be attractive to miners end quote. And 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.880 that term whatever might be attractive to miners is determined 0:15:30.880 --> 0:15:33.200 by a government bureaucracy, because you know, a whole bunch 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:35.920 of middle aged bureaucrats and a government entity. They really 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:38.800 have their fingers on the pulse of youthful America. 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:39.080 Right. 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.880 And so we say this violates freedom of speech. Our 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:44.400 client runs a vaping shop. Kids aren't even allowed in 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.600 his shop. Nevertheless, under this law, he cannot even put 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.280 a picture of a cherry on a box full of 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:52.680 cherry flavored vaping liquid. The state has said that that 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.480 is illegal. Well, that obviously violates your freedom of speech. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.840 Right, and it could be you know, you could just 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:01.720 trapolate that to so many other things. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.240 Yeah, you can't put you can't say what, you can't 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.840 say a truthful message about what's in the contents of 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.080 a package. And if this isn't even I mean, if 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:13.440 the if the constitution doesn't protect your right to speak 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:16.480 the truth, you've got some real problems there, right. And 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.040 the bureaucracy there when they when we sued they can't, 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:20.640 they came back and said, well, you you're not allowed 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:23.840 to sue yet because we haven't written the regulations. We 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.880 haven't told you yet what is attractive to minors, which 0:16:26.960 --> 0:16:32.040 is just that's crazy. I mean, the idea that bureau 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:34.720 bureaucrats can be empowered to decide what speech you are 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:38.840 and aren't allowed to express, and then that you're not 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.360 allowed to challenge it until they write the rules is wild. 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.720 So we went up to the Oregon Supreme Court just 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:46.400 a few days ago and one of my colleagues, John Thorpe, 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:48.360 argued that case and it went pretty well. I think, 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.120 you know, I got my fingers crossed about that case. Cool. 0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:58.320 Would people like you I others who like smaller government, 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:05.560 would we rather were living under more state constitution rules 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.159 than federal constitution rules? 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.239 In some ways yes, and in some ways no. So 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.000 it is true that state constitutions tend to protect freedom 0:17:12.040 --> 0:17:15.600 more broadly than the federal Constitution does. But you can't 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.960 just leave it to the states. We have to have 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.720 that federal protection against states. So think the Fourteenth amendmentant 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.600 that prevents the state from violating your federal constitutional rights 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:27.800 is crucial in protecting that. But for the most part, 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:29.720 of course, these decisions should mostly be made at the 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.080 state level. Political decisions generally, and constitutional rights should be 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:36.439 understood mostly at the state level because state judges, for 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:38.679 one thing, they typically are either elected or we have 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:40.960 retention elections, so you have more control over them, and 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:43.560 they're more attuned to the history and culture of that state, 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.320 and they know what the constitution means. 0:17:45.359 --> 0:17:46.760 I have more questions about that, and we're going to 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:50.280 talk about more Supreme Court cases coming up with Tim Sandfer, 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.520 who works with the Goldwater Institute and has been a 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.320 fan favored of the Armstrong and Getty Show. 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.440 For how many years? Oh, it's been at least a decade. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.880 No longer than that. Yeah, Yeah, we've been doing this. Yeah, 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.080 so it's sad to think about. 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:04.760 Really. So we got a lot on the way. 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:05.920 I hope you can stay with us if you missed 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.119 a segment or now we get the podcast Armstrong and 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:09.680 Getty on demand. 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:17.720 Stay with us Armstrong and Getty. We're talking with Tim 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:19.360 Sander of the Goldwater Institute. 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.440 Anything nice you want to say about Goldwater Institute before 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:22.480 I start asking you questions. 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.280 We're a nonprofit organization devoted to protecting individual rights in 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:31.280 courts and in legislatures. Across the country. We're defending your 0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:35.359 right to Our greatest achievement really is Right to Try, 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.840 which is a legislation that was signed by President Trump 0:18:37.840 --> 0:18:40.399 in his previous term that protects your right if you 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.320 are a terminally ill patient to access medicine that has 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.040 been approved for safety but not yet fully approved for 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.520 sale by the FDA. And now we're branching out into 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:51.520 Right to Try two point zero, which is an effort 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.679