Speaker 1: Hi, get everybody. I'm Dan Horde and thanks for downloading
Speaker 1: The Bengals Booth Podcast. And the future looks good. Addition,
Speaker 1: as you'll hear from NFL analyst Key and Fahey about
Speaker 1: the Bengals potential for building a championship team with Joe
Speaker 1: Burrow at quarterback. I'll also talk to the guy who
Speaker 1: will be right in the middle of what the Bengals
Speaker 1: hope is a much improved offensive line, Trey Hopkins. The
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Speaker 1: Let's get to football. One of my favorite writers covering
Speaker 1: the NFL is key and Fahey. He's an irishman who's
Speaker 1: hosted a podcast for ESPN in the past and is
Speaker 1: currently covering pro football for OTB sports dot com. You
Speaker 1: can read all of his articles online for as little
Speaker 1: as two dollars a month on patreon dot com. That's
Speaker 1: pat r eo N dot com. Keyan has written several
Speaker 1: articles about the Bengals in recent months, and I spoke
Speaker 1: to him recently after he published a story about Joe Burrow.
Speaker 1: Keyan earlier today, you posted a story with a following headline,
Speaker 1: Bengals set up well with Joe Burrow. You've been doing
Speaker 1: in depth study of NFL quarterbacks for years. What are
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow's best traits? I'd just like to point out
Speaker 1: that headline should be a lot more optimistic than is,
Speaker 1: like a certain limit there after getting those I want
Speaker 1: them to say, Bengals get star reward for awful season
Speaker 1: in Joe Burrow. I think like the first thing we
Speaker 1: have to talk about whenever we talk about any quarterback
Speaker 1: entering this league, and especially one who was so consensuously
Speaker 1: beloved and so hyped up during a season when everyone
Speaker 1: taught to below was going to be the guy Burrow
Speaker 1: took a step ahead of him. Part of that was
Speaker 1: the injury, but I think even if Tago Below was healthy,
Speaker 1: he would have been ahead of him. So I think.
Speaker 1: But the first thing we have to mention is the
Speaker 1: hype gets a little bit out of control at the
Speaker 1: draft all the time because all the draft writers are
Speaker 1: looking for who's the best guy this year, who's the
Speaker 1: guy to talk of? And then when you enter the league,
Speaker 1: it does not matter if you're the best in your class.
Speaker 1: It does not matter how good you are in college,
Speaker 1: because you've got to beat the likes of Patrick Humes
Speaker 1: and Lamar Jackson and all these guys. So I think
Speaker 1: Burrow has such a broad skill set it's very hard
Speaker 1: to pick the one thing that makes him really good
Speaker 1: and the one thing that could potentially make him great.
Speaker 1: But I think the most important trait that he has
Speaker 1: is his processing skills. So if you're talking about processing,
Speaker 1: you're talking about how the quarterback executes his own offense
Speaker 1: while diagnosing what the defense is doing. So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: use Andy Dalton just because he's someone everyone's going to
Speaker 1: be familiar with from a Bengals point of view, Andy
Speaker 1: Dalton was a great priesttap quarterback. If he figured out
Speaker 1: what you were doing before the ball was snapped, he
Speaker 1: was going to figure out where the open receiver was
Speaker 1: and he was going to get the ball to him
Speaker 1: there in time. Joe Borrow is also a great priestlap quarterback.
Speaker 1: If you give him a look, he's gonna know what
Speaker 1: to expect from that look, and he's going to know
Speaker 1: how to adjust off of that look. So the last
Speaker 1: part of that sentence is the difference there. Andy Dalton
Speaker 1: struggles to adjust when the look changed at the snap
Speaker 1: or when the defense shifted its coverage. So if you've
Speaker 1: got through Borrow's tape, there are so many of those
Speaker 1: big plays. The defense comes out showing cover two with
Speaker 1: two safeties deep. They want you to think it's own
Speaker 1: and they're going to rotate at the last second, bring
Speaker 1: unsafety down. Now it's covered one and it's man, and
Speaker 1: Joe Barrow knows where to look when he gets the ball,
Speaker 1: where to adjust too, to go afterwards, so the ball
Speaker 1: come out in time. I think it was against Clemson
Speaker 1: against j Terrell. I think when Jamar Chase bet him
Speaker 1: for a touchdown down the right side literally lined up
Speaker 1: in the slot. It changed the man. I think that
Speaker 1: play was a shift that might have been a different
Speaker 1: one from that game. It's been a lot of tape.
Speaker 1: I get these plays confused sometimes, but what happened there
Speaker 1: was he instantly or his eyes were in the middle
Speaker 1: of the field, he saw the safety rotation and instantly
Speaker 1: new to adjust and go to Jamarc Chase on the
Speaker 1: outside because he had won on one coverage. And that's
Speaker 1: such an important trait because when you have a quarterback
Speaker 1: who drops back in the pocket and his confused and
Speaker 1: doesn't know where to go, he winds up like Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 1: He needs the offense used play action all the time.
Speaker 1: He needs screens, he needs very specific grow combinations to
Speaker 1: work because he can't do everything. He can't open the
Speaker 1: full field and that will let Zach Taylor do whatever
Speaker 1: he wants as a coach. We're chatting with Keyan Fayhey
Speaker 1: a great Twitter follow at Keyan c I a NAF
Speaker 1: like American Football. What are Joe Burrow's biggest weaknesses? This
Speaker 1: is the thing about Joe Burrow that makes them fascinating
Speaker 1: in a sense, like there isn't a specific thing like
Speaker 1: if you bring I'm trying to think of a recent example.
Speaker 1: But if you bring a quarterback out of college and
Speaker 1: he's got a huge arm, He's got a monstrous arm.
Speaker 1: He's unbelievable talent, can make any troll. But he's never
Speaker 1: played in shotgun, he's never made full field reads. Then
Speaker 1: your biggest weakness is right there. He's only ever done
Speaker 1: very specific things. You don't know if he can do
Speaker 1: all the other stuff. There's not a single thing that
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow did in college where you thought, oh, he
Speaker 1: has to get better at that to be a better
Speaker 1: NFL player. So my big concern with Joe Burrow is
Speaker 1: the LSU offensive line. The interior of that offensive line.
Speaker 1: It's just stonewalled everyone like they were giving him tom
Speaker 1: giving him space. So when he did get pressured, it
Speaker 1: came from the edge. So when a pressure comes from
Speaker 1: the edge, you can adjust with it if you've got
Speaker 1: space in front you, because you can step up, you
Speaker 1: can step back, you can evade a little bit. If
Speaker 1: it comes from the middle. And this is why Aaron
Speaker 1: Donald is so valuable, You've nowhere to go, you're trapped.
Speaker 1: So Burrow very rarely saw those types of plays. But
Speaker 1: even if I talk about that like obviously the Bengals
Speaker 1: offensive line won't dominate NFL defenders. With that offensive line
Speaker 1: dominant college defenders. It's just a different standard that doesn't
Speaker 1: happen anywhere. It's very rare, like the Eagles when Nick
Speaker 1: Foles won the Super Bowl. That's probably the most recent
Speaker 1: recollection of that happening. Maybe the Cowboys during Dak's rookie year.
Speaker 1: But normally quarterbacks are inevitbly going to face some pressure.
Speaker 1: But even if you look at that and say, oh,
Speaker 1: Borrow got very clean pockets, and as well, he had
Speaker 1: great receivers. Even if you say that, there's a positive
Speaker 1: to that too, because like Tony or almost the quarterback.
Speaker 1: I always go back to Tony almost the most patient
Speaker 1: quarterback ever. People used to talk about how good the
Speaker 1: offensive line was, but they didn't recognize was when the
Speaker 1: offensive line gave him great time and space in the pocket,
Speaker 1: he rarely ever wasted it. And that's what Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: has got. He's got patience to stay in the pocket.
Speaker 1: So even while I'm talking about he didn't face enough
Speaker 1: pressure up the middle for me to really understand there,
Speaker 1: he's showing you that, oh I'll sit here and wait
Speaker 1: for my receiver to come up because I know I've
Speaker 1: got time, which is a talent in itself. And the
Speaker 1: other part of that is he always recognized when it
Speaker 1: was a tree man rush, when it was a four
Speaker 1: man rush, when they were having tree down lineman and
Speaker 1: blitzing from the back end, when they had a five
Speaker 1: man rush coming, when they had an Alli blitz. So
Speaker 1: his timing and his process to adjust based on what
Speaker 1: the defense was doing, even while the coming for the
Speaker 1: fact he was in clean pockets, was still very, very impressive.
Speaker 1: So you've asked me for a negative, and my negative
Speaker 1: is that he's pretty good at staying in the pockets.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I just blamed people for hyping up
Speaker 1: draft prospects, and look what I'm after doing. We're talking
Speaker 1: to Keyan Fayhey, who writes about the NFL for Off
Speaker 1: the Ball Sports dot Com OTB sports dot Com. Last month,
Speaker 1: you power ranked all thirty two projected NFL starting quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: At that point, Cam Newton hadn't signed yet with New England.
Speaker 1: You had Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes at the top. Naturally,
Speaker 1: you had rookies to a Tungo Filoa and Justin Herbert
Speaker 1: at the bottom. I was surprised where you had Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 1: You referenced him earlier, but number twenty eight. That was
Speaker 1: kind of a shocker to me. Well, it's relevant to
Speaker 1: what we're talking about. I like, so Baker Mayfield's hype,
Speaker 1: Baker Mayfield's excitement is based on the touchdown record from
Speaker 1: his rookie season. Far as I can tell. His college
Speaker 1: shape was pretty good too, So there is talent there.
Speaker 1: There's definitely a physical talent there. That arm is incredible,
Speaker 1: But he has like I've never seen like a quarterback
Speaker 1: go from being uncomfortable in the pocket, running out of
Speaker 1: clean pockets, panicking when his first read isn't there, and
Speaker 1: changing around and fixing that as a problem and becoming
Speaker 1: a quarterback who can manage a pocket and stay in
Speaker 1: the pocket and stand there. And if you watch the
Speaker 1: Bengals enough, you've known that was one of Andy Dalton's issues.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a major issue for Andy the way it
Speaker 1: is for Baker Mayfield, but during his prime, he wasn't
Speaker 1: going to stand in there. Alex Smith is another guy
Speaker 1: like that, where he's got a clean pocket, but his
Speaker 1: first read isn't there, so he's going to bail and
Speaker 1: run to his flat. And what actually started to happen
Speaker 1: with Mayfield was, even if the play was designed perfectly
Speaker 1: and working perfectly, he would still bail and drift backwards
Speaker 1: and run to the flat. So Freddie Kitchens, while he
Speaker 1: wasn't a great play designer last year, wasn't a great
Speaker 1: play caller last year, he wasn't as bad as he's
Speaker 1: getting blamed to be either. Like when he called up
Speaker 1: good plays, when he designed nice plays, Mayfield was still
Speaker 1: kind of messing up by running himself out of the pocket.
Speaker 1: So that's where you've got Kevin Stefancy men here, and
Speaker 1: they're going to do to Mayfield what the Vikings did
Speaker 1: the Kirk Cousins last year, which has put him in
Speaker 1: a play action heavy under center offense where you run
Speaker 1: all the time on first down, you run second down.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of bootleg. It's a lot of not
Speaker 1: asking him to do straight dropbacks, not asking him to
Speaker 1: make multiple reads down the field while dropping back in
Speaker 1: the pocket, while mitigating pressure with a specific movement. So
Speaker 1: I think the new offense will help there, but I
Speaker 1: don't think you'll fundamentally change who Mayfield is as a quarterback.
Speaker 1: And like one of one of my pet peeves in
Speaker 1: the NFL is last year Mayfield was losing weight or sorry,
Speaker 1: he was bulking up last year to get better because
Speaker 1: that was his problem entering his second year. And this
Speaker 1: year he's going to be better because he's losing weight
Speaker 1: because he was too big last year. Or you get
Speaker 1: entering a surge year. So there in yourself like there's
Speaker 1: something broken there in the process. You don't understand what's
Speaker 1: wrong or what you need to work on if you're
Speaker 1: doing the exact opposite of what you thought you needed
Speaker 1: to do last year. And I just don't see the
Speaker 1: potential for development or for turning around. And look, what
Speaker 1: I say about young quarterbacks in particular is not pressed
Speaker 1: it it's what I see at the time. It's what
Speaker 1: I see from him recently, like he could turn around
Speaker 1: and be a great quarterback. I just I just don't
Speaker 1: see it happening. I would doubt it very much. A
Speaker 1: guy like Patrick Mahomes I saw coming out of college
Speaker 1: and I thought, yeah, I don't think he's ever going
Speaker 1: to be a great quarterback because at that time his
Speaker 1: footwork was a mess and he was just really a
Speaker 1: massive arm He took a year out with Andy Reid,
Speaker 1: refined his footwork, fix him up a little bit, and
Speaker 1: then his brain came out and you realize, whoa, this
Speaker 1: is one of the smartest quarterbacks you'll ever see. So
Speaker 1: like it's everything's a protection moving forward. But based on
Speaker 1: last year, based on his rookie year, that's about where
Speaker 1: I would put Mayfield right now. We like strong opinion.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you get it wrong, that's all right, you're back well,
Speaker 1: you're back it up with data and that's what's fun
Speaker 1: to read. Let's talk about Ben Roethlisberger. You had him
Speaker 1: ranked number twenty three, not just due to his injury
Speaker 1: from last year, partially due to his injury because of
Speaker 1: his age. Like you, if you're thirty eighth, you're a
Speaker 1: quarterback who's notoriously never in great shape, like I think
Speaker 1: he'll admit to that him self. Over the years. He's
Speaker 1: never been someone who's got a chisels midsection or someone
Speaker 1: who's doing as much running as possible. He's the guy
Speaker 1: who turns up and throws the ball and plays backyard football,
Speaker 1: as he likes to say, and that's hard to do
Speaker 1: at thirty nine or thirty eight coming off an elbow
Speaker 1: injury coming off a career like Rossberger used to get
Speaker 1: sacked fifty times a year. He used to get beaten
Speaker 1: up by the Bengals a lot of the time, but
Speaker 1: by the Ravens, by the Patriots. In his prime of
Speaker 1: his career, he was playing behind an offensive line that
Speaker 1: got him hit a lot. So I don't think as
Speaker 1: he's aged that he's gotten better. I think the numbers
Speaker 1: have don't really reflect it properly. With him. He's putting
Speaker 1: up big numbers, but he's also made a lot of
Speaker 1: critical errors, and his problem as being on the road,
Speaker 1: He's gotten worse and worse over the years. He will
Speaker 1: have two or three massive games at home, like the
Speaker 1: Panthers game from two years ago. I think it was
Speaker 1: that stands out re true five touchdowns, was incredible, it
Speaker 1: was unplayable. But then he turns around the next week
Speaker 1: and puts up a complete stinker. And I just feel
Speaker 1: like that's the way he is as a quarterback, right
Speaker 1: but at that age, and you're not really a timing quarterback.
Speaker 1: Actually come back to Borrow again. Borrow we talked about
Speaker 1: very specific cross in apocablist. Every time he sees sees
Speaker 1: what the defense is doing When the defense tries to
Speaker 1: bate him into a mistake, he'll just see that and
Speaker 1: change and hasten up his hasting up his throwing motion
Speaker 1: if he needs it to get the ball out. Rothlisberger
Speaker 1: struggles more with that because he's never been that structured guy.
Speaker 1: When Todd Haley was there, he became that structured guy
Speaker 1: because that's what Todd Haley wanted. But they ran Todd
Speaker 1: Haley out of towne then because that's not what Rothlisberger wanted.
Speaker 1: So ill you think there's a lot of factors there
Speaker 1: that are going to lead to average negative play. And
Speaker 1: the thing about them is Rothlisberger wants to be throwing
Speaker 1: the ball a lot. He does not want to be
Speaker 1: a compliment in a run heavy offense. And then you
Speaker 1: look at the talents there. Levian Belle is gone and
Speaker 1: Tonio Browne is gone. It's been years since they've had
Speaker 1: Heat Miller, who was our last really good tight end.
Speaker 1: I think overall the quality from that offense is dropping,
Speaker 1: and it's just going to hurt them because they're gonna
Speaker 1: ask Rothlisberger to play like he did ten years ago
Speaker 1: and at thirty eight, I just don't see that happening.
Speaker 1: We're talking to Key and Fayehea, for my money, one
Speaker 1: of the best writers out there when it comes to
Speaker 1: watching the tape and communicating it in an interesting way.
Speaker 1: Let's move off the orderbacks for a moment. You did
Speaker 1: an in depth study of Jonah Williams prior to last
Speaker 1: year's draft. How good of an NFL offensive line prospect
Speaker 1: is Jonah Williams. I think the interesting way there just
Speaker 1: means the accents, doesn't it. That's generally gone well for
Speaker 1: me Williams. This is gonna sound like the laziest analysis
Speaker 1: you'll ever come across. But Jonah Williams did remind me
Speaker 1: a lot of Andrew Whitwork, And like the Bengals fans,
Speaker 1: that's great news. Andrew Whitwork one of the best offensive
Speaker 1: tackles has been in the league in the last twenty years.
Speaker 1: The key for me is with word was probably stronger,
Speaker 1: probably more powerful at the point of attack, and that
Speaker 1: that's something Williams could develop with. So like when when
Speaker 1: a player goes away for a year, when he can't
Speaker 1: play football for a year, it's still like you can
Speaker 1: get in the weight room, depending on what your injury is.
Speaker 1: Once you finish your rehab, start working on your physical limitations,
Speaker 1: so he could come back and be much stronger than
Speaker 1: he was previously. What let's say he's the same guy
Speaker 1: we saw at Alabama. What are you gonna get. You're
Speaker 1: gonna get someone who's very comfortable moving latter league, someone
Speaker 1: is very comfortable in his zone runs, which suits the
Speaker 1: off want to run someone who you can trust in
Speaker 1: past protection one on one. So what I really loved
Speaker 1: about Williams is he doesn't He's not going to dominate
Speaker 1: you in Malu. He's not Tyron Smith. He's not one
Speaker 1: of these freak athletes. But he will move his seat
Speaker 1: constantly to recreate leverage at all times. He will keep
Speaker 1: the angle in his favor. When he's protecting his quarterback.
Speaker 1: He'll keep his rear end directed to his quarterback just
Speaker 1: to make sure he can all stop you from going
Speaker 1: past either of his shoulders hit. He places his hands
Speaker 1: very well, and because pos his feet very well. With
Speaker 1: your hands and feet moving in concert, that generally leads
Speaker 1: you to playing with great technique, and that means you're
Speaker 1: concentrating your power and concerning your athleticism. But I think
Speaker 1: he's very much a very like I think Jake Matthews
Speaker 1: isn't the great comparison like with word is the guy
Speaker 1: turned too. But you have to acknowledge he's not going
Speaker 1: to be with from the start. I think he's going
Speaker 1: to be a huge value in the running game and
Speaker 1: a huge value in pass protection. My concerns with the
Speaker 1: with the Bengals pass protection is going to be the
Speaker 1: rest of the offensive line. Hopefully you can put Joonah
Speaker 1: Williams there, leave him there for ten or fifteen years,
Speaker 1: and then you have this beautiful scenario, a beautiful situation
Speaker 1: where you lost game after game after game last year
Speaker 1: and this is your reward where you get a potential
Speaker 1: franchise left tackle and the potential franchise quarterback starting together
Speaker 1: for the first time at the same time. And notice
Speaker 1: respect to what they've had their previously. But I don't
Speaker 1: like in the last ten years, there hasn't been a
Speaker 1: point where I've said, right, the Bengals really scare me.
Speaker 1: This year. They are definitely one of the best teams.
Speaker 1: They're going to be a Super Bowl and part of
Speaker 1: the reason has been the play at the quarterback. Part
Speaker 1: of the reason has been just the structure of the defense.
Speaker 1: And that's another thing we can kind of talk about
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I think with Borrow and with
Speaker 1: Jonah Williams, your ceiling just takes that extra step up.
Speaker 1: You become like as long as you get the right
Speaker 1: pieces around those guys, you can very quickly follow Baltimore Ravens.
Speaker 1: And it's not going to be like the Browns last year,
Speaker 1: where everyone's hyping them up because they've got big names.
Speaker 1: It's going to be these young guys with guys who
Speaker 1: are complimentary, who filled the right roles coming in around them,
Speaker 1: and hopefully the Bengals can build that way. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about the offensive weapons. They franchise Tag daj Green, they
Speaker 1: drafted t Higan, they have Joe Mixing in the backfield.
Speaker 1: How good are the scope position players that Joe Burrow
Speaker 1: will be working with. Can we just talk about Aja
Speaker 1: Green beforehand? Though, because he didn't play last year and
Speaker 1: it was never a big deal to anyone outside of Cincinnati,
Speaker 1: And that's it doesn't make any sense, right because I
Speaker 1: know he's quiet, and I know Cincinnati is a smaller market,
Speaker 1: so everyone gets overlooked there and that's always the narrative.
Speaker 1: But the quality of this guy as a football player
Speaker 1: has never been appreciated and enough. Like Julio Jones gets
Speaker 1: so much credit for being a little bit worse than
Speaker 1: Aja Green. Like Julio Jones is a no standing receiver,
Speaker 1: but Asia Green's a better rout runner. Aja Green is
Speaker 1: just as tough. He's got that huge cat riots, He's
Speaker 1: got all the athleticism. He's an incredible football player. He's
Speaker 1: been one of the best receivers in this league at
Speaker 1: a time when the league has had so many incredible receivers.
Speaker 1: Calvin Johnson returned, and we just got another line of
Speaker 1: guys coming in who are nearly as good as Calvin Johnson.
Speaker 1: It's ridiculous. And he's been there for so long. So
Speaker 1: I'm the biggest Aja Green fan around. But the Bengals
Speaker 1: should trade him. And the reason they should trade him
Speaker 1: is because at that point of age he's at look,
Speaker 1: his value is hired to another team and it's higher
Speaker 1: in a trade to the Bengals than it is to
Speaker 1: the Bengals on the field right now. And that's a
Speaker 1: business move, and it's a move that fits the development
Speaker 1: curve of this specific team you want Borrow to be
Speaker 1: working with. He's gonna work with for the next four
Speaker 1: to five years. If you keep Edge Green, it's still
Speaker 1: great because it can be like Reggie Wayne, but Andrew
Speaker 1: luck up to start of his career. If you don't
Speaker 1: even get that back, edge of Green can go somewhere.
Speaker 1: Probably the timeline fits a little better for him and
Speaker 1: the Bengals can get better overall. The value Tyler Boy
Speaker 1: I really like as a compliment to Green. I think
Speaker 1: like the possession receiver idea is a little bit antiquated
Speaker 1: and it's a little bit under selling what his ability is.
Speaker 1: Like when he came out of college, everyone thought, oh,
Speaker 1: he's the slot receiver. He'll just play in the slot
Speaker 1: and he'll be consistent all the time. I think he's
Speaker 1: proven he's more than that. Even if he plays in
Speaker 1: the slot, He's got that atleticism to get down field.
Speaker 1: He can make big plays. He can he can make
Speaker 1: running precise roads as well as anyone audn't Taate. I
Speaker 1: know he's getting overlooked now because like John ROSSI still
Speaker 1: there as well. It's another guy who's got endless amounts
Speaker 1: of talents. And te Higgins is coming in. But I
Speaker 1: thought him tait a lot last year, like as a
Speaker 1: young receiver, as one who hadn't played a usual month beforehand.
Speaker 1: He showed you a lot. He made a lot of
Speaker 1: difficult plays. He catched the ball well away from his body.
Speaker 1: He worked against type coverage a lot. He might get
Speaker 1: lost in the shuffle a little bit, which is not
Speaker 1: a reason why I'm looking at Aja Green and thinking
Speaker 1: you don't necessarily have to be here. We can still
Speaker 1: be really good without you. See, Higgins is like te
Speaker 1: Higgins is a little bit like DeVante Parker in the
Speaker 1: sense he's going to get compared to Aja Green because
Speaker 1: of his body type and because of his athleticism he's got.
Speaker 1: I'll be better at the catch point. He's got to
Speaker 1: be better at reading the flight of the ball, and
Speaker 1: these are the things he can learn. Once he does that,
Speaker 1: it'll be terrifying for any cornerback trying to cover him.
Speaker 1: I really like him. I thought he went way or
Speaker 1: that way he went still went in the second round.
Speaker 1: I thought he could have gone ten picks hard, and
Speaker 1: he did. I think some of the receivers who went
Speaker 1: ahead of him weren't as good as him. The guy
Speaker 1: the Eagles picked in particular whose name jumps a Reger Jager.
Speaker 1: If you put Higgins and Reager next to each other.
Speaker 1: I thought Reger looked like a run back, in Higgins
Speaker 1: look like he could be a star receiver. So there's
Speaker 1: massive reasons to be excited about the skill positions in
Speaker 1: this office. The Bengals spent big in free agency, which
Speaker 1: they have historically not done. DJ Reader, Trey Wayne's, Von Bell,
Speaker 1: Mackenzie Alexander, josh By, Xavier Sue of feel well, all
Speaker 1: of those guys could start this year. Who is the
Speaker 1: best edition in your opinion? That's a good question. So
Speaker 1: when you're looking at fais it's not necessarily the dual
Speaker 1: player or who is the best player of this group
Speaker 1: you've got, it's the value you get. Like Bill Belichick
Speaker 1: has signed a lot of big name players, but he's
Speaker 1: never really overpaid for a big name player. Are you
Speaker 1: actually like DJ Reader? It's not really a great one
Speaker 1: because he's gonna be similar to Andrew Billings who's left,
Speaker 1: so you're not going to necessarily see a huge impact.
Speaker 1: I really like him as a player, and I think
Speaker 1: he's good value for what they got. The guy I like,
Speaker 1: the guy who I think has higher potential than much
Speaker 1: you think is McKenzie Alexander. So it's it's a confusing
Speaker 1: one because Mike Zimmer got these defensive backs, both of
Speaker 1: these defensive back Trey Wains and McKenzie Alexander in Minnesota,
Speaker 1: he might have left them go because a cap situation.
Speaker 1: Minnesota din't have a huge amount of cap get to
Speaker 1: cut Zavier Roles cut Everson Griffin. So that might have
Speaker 1: been the issue. But you have to kind of worry
Speaker 1: a little bit when Mike Zimmer is letting defensive back
Speaker 1: because as you guys know, Mike Zimmer is an incredibly
Speaker 1: good defensive backs coach. But I always felt McKenzie Alexander
Speaker 1: had a lot more ability than his performance to show
Speaker 1: him Minnesota he can play inside, he can play outside.
Speaker 1: I think he might play a lot of inside in
Speaker 1: Cincinnati because you've got William Jackson there who's outstanding. Trey
Speaker 1: Waynes is going to stay on the outside, He's not
Speaker 1: going to move on the inside. So you're basically taking
Speaker 1: two fifths of the Viking secondary and putting it into Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: And I think Alexander is one of those guys who
Speaker 1: can just benefit from and a fresh start, someone who's
Speaker 1: going to get a new voice in his head, going
Speaker 1: to have an opportunity to show off his ball skills
Speaker 1: a little bit more his assignments, what he's asked to
Speaker 1: do in the specifics of the offense or sorry, in
Speaker 1: this discility of defense might actually help him a little bit.
Speaker 1: I like his footwork, I like his ball skills. His
Speaker 1: issue has been sticking with receivers outs. That's something he
Speaker 1: can get better at. If you if you, if you're
Speaker 1: in a different role as a slot receiver, as a
Speaker 1: slot quarterback, like what depends what you're asked to do.
Speaker 1: The Bengals have decent safeties. They have other cornerbacks that
Speaker 1: are going to take the bigger name receivers when they
Speaker 1: mix and man, so I think that Alexander could be
Speaker 1: the guy there who overachieved relative to what he was paid.
Speaker 1: I started out by referencing the story that you wrote
Speaker 1: for OTB sports dot Com. Bengals set up well with
Speaker 1: Joe Burrow, but you also made the point in that
Speaker 1: story that they're not going to contend yet with a
Speaker 1: rookie quarterback. You don't immediately turn things around after winning
Speaker 1: two games and win the Super Bowl. How far away
Speaker 1: are they should Bengals fans realistically anticipate that within the
Speaker 1: next two or three years, they could be a legitimate contender. Again, absolutely,
Speaker 1: because you've got the two most difficult pieces. But look,
Speaker 1: let's let's fast forward twelve months. Let's say it Joel
Speaker 1: Burrow has a really good rookie seasons, Like the numbers
Speaker 1: aren't insane, but he shows you he's going to be
Speaker 1: your sactor for the next ten years. Let's say Jonah
Speaker 1: Williams comes in and he's great too, Zavier Suavilo is
Speaker 1: an effective starting right guard, and then you all just
Speaker 1: have those areas to fill in. You don't need a
Speaker 1: wide receiver, you don't need a running back. Assimi mix
Speaker 1: and stays around. You can probably bring in someone outside
Speaker 1: then to compete you've got. Defensively, I think you still
Speaker 1: are searching for that second past or. Sure at this
Speaker 1: point that second start to put Exogeno Atkins, and Atkins
Speaker 1: is obviously at the ending stage of his career. Offensively,
Speaker 1: I think they're set up. They're probably one two pieces
Speaker 1: away from having an above averaged really good offense, depending
Speaker 1: on how Borow develops. Defensively is where I think they
Speaker 1: can concentrate, and that's a really nice position to be
Speaker 1: in because if you can concentrate all your equity in
Speaker 1: one specific area or month specific side of the ball.
Speaker 1: It's very it's much easier to evaluate and figure out
Speaker 1: what you want to do. Let's go back to the Vikings,
Speaker 1: who we just talked about. They've built their defense and
Speaker 1: it kind of sold Teddy Bridgewater out a little bit
Speaker 1: because they never had an offensive line with Teddy Bridgewater
Speaker 1: and they didn't have receivers. He was trying to Charles Johnson,
Speaker 1: he was trying to matt Asiata was one of his
Speaker 1: best receivers. Of matt Acciata as a running back who
Speaker 1: should have been a fullback. That tells you how good
Speaker 1: the passing game was there. They built their defense up,
Speaker 1: they had the superstar defensive carried the team for a while,
Speaker 1: and then they focus on the offense. The Bengals can
Speaker 1: do the opposite of that. Add a couple more pieces
Speaker 1: to the offense as you go and focus all your equity,
Speaker 1: all your investments on the defensive side, and build your
Speaker 1: team that way moving forward. I don't think this team
Speaker 1: is like really far away, Like if you compare them
Speaker 1: to the Los Angeles Rams, who are in a really
Speaker 1: bad position because they've spent so much money on certain players.
Speaker 1: They've traded away as so many picks, they've hemorrhage talent
Speaker 1: for the last couple of years. They have to go
Speaker 1: into this year, figure out what happens this year, and
Speaker 1: then hit the reset button. If you look at the
Speaker 1: Miami Dolphins, you're betting on a quarterback who has a
Speaker 1: questionable hip. You hope he's going to be really good,
Speaker 1: but you've also overpaid a bunch of guys to build
Speaker 1: through free agency as the foundation of your team. That's
Speaker 1: not a great position to be an either. The Bengals
Speaker 1: aren't overpaying anyone. They're not committing long term money to anyone.
Speaker 1: They shouldn't be. They haven't made awful moves and free
Speaker 1: agency it's going to set them back. They haven't hurt
Speaker 1: themselves with any draft picks. So you've got this table
Speaker 1: set and there's already a really nice steak there, but
Speaker 1: your quarterback, and there's a great side with it too,
Speaker 1: as your left tackle, and you've just got to add
Speaker 1: the rest of it. And I think they're going to
Speaker 1: be able to do that. Key and Faye, he has
Speaker 1: been our guest. You can read everything he writes about
Speaker 1: football for as little as two dollars a month at
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com at r eon dot com. I am
Speaker 1: a very happy subscriber and I appreciate your time today.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, thank you. Before we get to our
Speaker 1: next conversation, here's a quick reminder that you can take
Speaker 1: your Bengals pride to the next level in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: with an official Bengals fan package from Prime Sport. One
Speaker 1: of the best stories on the Bengals roster is Trey Hopkins.
Speaker 1: After breaking his leg in the preseason as a rookie
Speaker 1: back in twenty fourteen, Hopkins did not play in a
Speaker 1: regular season game in his first two years in the NFL,
Speaker 1: and only appeared in one game in year three, but
Speaker 1: he eventually became a starter at guard in two seventeen,
Speaker 1: and last year he started every game at center after
Speaker 1: beating out former first round draft pick Billy Price in
Speaker 1: training camp. Hopkins played so well that he was given
Speaker 1: a three year, twenty point four million dollar contract extension
Speaker 1: near the end of the season. I spoke to Trey
Speaker 1: this week, shortly after he celebrated his twenty eighth birthday. Trey,
Speaker 1: how'd you celebrate your twenty eighth birthday? Well, I'm down
Speaker 1: back home and I was actually just hanging out with
Speaker 1: my family playing some cards and you know, I just
Speaker 1: got back out of here and then yesterday went efficient
Speaker 1: um with my family again. Have you spent the off
Speaker 1: season back home or did you spend part of it
Speaker 1: in the Cincinnati area. As spent all of it in
Speaker 1: the Cincinnati area. And this is my first time seeing
Speaker 1: my family since They'ruhary Trey, You're coming off quite a
Speaker 1: year from winning a starting job in training cap to
Speaker 1: getting a three year contract extension in late December. How
Speaker 1: gratifying was it for you to see all of your
Speaker 1: hard work payoff? I mean it was great. I definitely
Speaker 1: win a the off season with a lot of good
Speaker 1: feel he's in the ending now. Um, I mean if
Speaker 1: we do get get out there, I mean to be
Speaker 1: great to actually you know, earn that and actually see
Speaker 1: that contract to fruition. Um, you know, the end of
Speaker 1: the last year or after getting the last year, I see,
Speaker 1: even in the imagining things that turned out the way
Speaker 1: they did. And um, I mean I'm in very signs,
Speaker 1: very trout, and I'm still happy now. But sometimes you
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta, you know, you gotta get to work,
Speaker 1: no question about it. We're chatting with Trey Hopkins. Until
Speaker 1: last year, Trey, you were kind of a Swiss Army
Speaker 1: knife on the offensive line. Now you've got a spot center.
Speaker 1: Is it a relief to be settled in at one spot? Oh?
Speaker 1: Ye as for strange to be able to just focus
Speaker 1: on one kind of page. But you know, the way
Speaker 1: life works. I feel like I've never had just light
Speaker 1: an off season where you can really later right now,
Speaker 1: and this one is kind of the same way, just
Speaker 1: because all the uncertainty with COVID and everything, and then
Speaker 1: figuring out how to train and then figuring out, you
Speaker 1: know what what to do. The facility is closing down
Speaker 1: and things like that. So it's it's it's another strange
Speaker 1: off The seems like it will be another year where
Speaker 1: you know, there's never any relaxing. The contract that you
Speaker 1: signed after Christmas was life changing. Did you splurge on
Speaker 1: anything for yourself or anybody else? Um? No, I thought,
Speaker 1: mean not yet, not at this point. Um it was.
Speaker 1: It was kind of good just you know, for the
Speaker 1: first time I'm actually able to like sit down to
Speaker 1: advisories and so I had a good chunk, you know,
Speaker 1: to actually do some some investments with. So that that's
Speaker 1: what I did with the way you see thus far
Speaker 1: and you've really done too much. That's that good University
Speaker 1: of Texas education being put to work Trey with no
Speaker 1: OTAs or mini camps. All of the offseason work for
Speaker 1: the team was done on zoom calls. How challenging was
Speaker 1: that for you? It was challenging in the sense that
Speaker 1: it's clearing, monotonous, and then you miss out on those
Speaker 1: moments of kind of lady m which football where you
Speaker 1: know you're hanging out with you're in the lot room,
Speaker 1: you get to share those like funny moments. You get
Speaker 1: those you know, team building moments that way, and of
Speaker 1: course you have those kinds of those same moments in zone.
Speaker 1: But another thing really can replace it in person camaraderie
Speaker 1: um that you normally having those tas because those days
Speaker 1: are a little bit less, it's a little less stressful
Speaker 1: for everyone in laws. You're not preparing for the game
Speaker 1: riding around the corner in three days, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? So um that in that part it was
Speaker 1: it was difficult. UM. I think it was a great
Speaker 1: opportunity for younger guys UM to learn UM. Again, it's
Speaker 1: another it's it was a tough spot for them on
Speaker 1: that not being over physically in pressure coaching lands like that.
Speaker 1: But it it was a good moment for them to
Speaker 1: not have to worry so much about the physical aspect
Speaker 1: as far as you know, um, perfecting the techniques on
Speaker 1: the field exactly then. But but it gave them good
Speaker 1: a good chance to really ironed out, like iron out
Speaker 1: the playbook. From what we read and heard, you were
Speaker 1: barking out line calls on zoom calls as if you're
Speaker 1: facing a defense. Can you describe that? Oh, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: very easy. It's just you know, just going over film,
Speaker 1: whether it be clips from our games or in the
Speaker 1: games from from last year, and you know, Zach would
Speaker 1: give us a give us a play Um, Joe would
Speaker 1: call out the cadence and then it would be trade.
Speaker 1: What's the call was identification And it's very similar to
Speaker 1: the way that you Turner with hold these meetings, you know,
Speaker 1: and you can protecting meetings that we would have throughout
Speaker 1: the week last year. So I don't think that aspect
Speaker 1: of any any difference. Just now instead of us all
Speaker 1: being in the same room to get it looking at
Speaker 1: the screen, um, looking at one projective screen that we're
Speaker 1: at home, looking at a zoom strength. What are your
Speaker 1: impressions of Joe Burrow so far? Very impressive, very impressive things,
Speaker 1: have a great progress with offense. So it's just a
Speaker 1: very very short time. It seems like because of the
Speaker 1: season he had at LSU and winning the Heisman and
Speaker 1: winning the national championship, there's so much interest in him
Speaker 1: in Cincinnati among everybody right now? Was it the same
Speaker 1: among his soon to be teammates? Were you really eager
Speaker 1: to see, all right, what's this? What's this guy all about?
Speaker 1: For sure? Definitely. I mean the number of overalls, the
Speaker 1: number one overall people there to be don't really skate by.
Speaker 1: I think everyone. There's a lot of excitement in the
Speaker 1: locker room, just you know, for this training, special life,
Speaker 1: um and just to he's got to see how he
Speaker 1: translates encouraged? Was this what I seems the star in
Speaker 1: the zone? Us with quarterbacks, we tend to think of
Speaker 1: a need to develop timing and chemistry with his receivers,
Speaker 1: But what about the quarterback center relationship? Does that happen
Speaker 1: quickly or does that take some time? I mean, personally,
Speaker 1: I guess I'll only we have an experience to besides
Speaker 1: moveing to the idea haven't already um been there. But
Speaker 1: to be honest, it didn't take that long um snapping.
Speaker 1: For the most part. It was snapping of course, you
Speaker 1: know quarterbacks and they when they like a little bit more,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, one wants to all a little bit higher,
Speaker 1: and you know, they want a little bit faster or
Speaker 1: something like that. And that's something that normally you get
Speaker 1: that straight down within a matter of a couple of snaps, um,
Speaker 1: you know. But then when it comes to a communication
Speaker 1: between each other, I think we didn't have the opportunity,
Speaker 1: um in the ZOOE meetings to kind of work through
Speaker 1: those things. And I got to hear how he sees
Speaker 1: things and how he's gonna roll through his cadence or
Speaker 1: whether he's going to go through a full case before
Speaker 1: he has a check when he wants to make a check,
Speaker 1: and then how he's gonna phrase those things. So I
Speaker 1: think that that Parker was good and getting to already
Speaker 1: get a jump on that. UM. Now a physical part,
Speaker 1: I would say it should not be that discud It
Speaker 1: shouldn't take long at all. This might be a stupid question,
Speaker 1: but since there are no OTAs or mini camps. That's
Speaker 1: a center practice snapping in the backyard or at a
Speaker 1: park or what do you do? Or I couldn't practice
Speaker 1: that US mapping lane because I was actually a boy myself.
Speaker 1: But now that I trained that dignition um and or
Speaker 1: Grisian elite now um, and so now that I'm down there,
Speaker 1: some guys, um, I cannot actually snap the people. So
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's really just one of those banish you
Speaker 1: want to make sure you never really lose it, and
Speaker 1: you want to you want to make sure your cap
Speaker 1: on top of it. A few more questions for Bengal
Speaker 1: center Trey Hopkins. Let's look at the old line. Jonah
Speaker 1: Williams returns from his injury to play left tackle. Xaviers
Speaker 1: to a Philo signed as a free agent, and we'll
Speaker 1: likely started right guard. How much does that solidify the
Speaker 1: offensive line? I feel like we have a we have
Speaker 1: a solid group getting there and there last year and
Speaker 1: then you lost your own early early on, you know,
Speaker 1: and OCAs with the soldier soldier injury. Um, it'll be
Speaker 1: great to see him out there. But you know, I'm
Speaker 1: excited as the c would with xs something, excited to
Speaker 1: get to you know, play next thing. Because Sean was.
Speaker 1: Zoe BBC said, great, of course, It's it's kind of
Speaker 1: hard to descry people's just space having on them some
Speaker 1: zoom meetings, But I can't say I'm very excited for
Speaker 1: this group. They we're gonna head in the moone um
Speaker 1: this year, and I'm excited to get get to work
Speaker 1: with the size. You know, after starting all sixteen games
Speaker 1: last year, how long did it take to feel okay
Speaker 1: physically execular? I'll say probably, Well, you know what happened.
Speaker 1: I actually gotten pretty sick at the beginning, like right
Speaker 1: after the last game, so that kind of that kind
Speaker 1: of took a little told long. Me too, But I
Speaker 1: would say about three weeks after the season. I Treyer
Speaker 1: about three weeks away from reporting for training camp. How
Speaker 1: are you feeling about the possibility of playing football in
Speaker 1: a pandemic Company's feel, honest, to be honest, excited for
Speaker 1: the opportunity to play. When being excited, so my contract,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'd love to do that to a mon's homecoming,
Speaker 1: to get to it um. But there's still a lot
Speaker 1: of certain uncertainty. You know, as you talk about the
Speaker 1: NFL and SOBA coming together and decided to safety protocols
Speaker 1: and things like that, and exactly what is it gonna
Speaker 1: look like for us, because I mean, as anybody can
Speaker 1: can tell you, football is not really a game you
Speaker 1: can play social distancing. So it'll be interesting to see
Speaker 1: how how this all actually plays out of reporting and
Speaker 1: how it affects the league and the games and practicing
Speaker 1: and things like that, because I mean, unfortunately, he's trying
Speaker 1: to take away a lot of stuff that that is
Speaker 1: enjoyable about the game. Playing on Sundays in front of
Speaker 1: a full crowd, even at that crowd participation and things
Speaker 1: like that, and you know, being in a full locker
Speaker 1: room of people and cafeteria times and things like they're
Speaker 1: just sitting down during camp and getting your break sitting
Speaker 1: in the cafeteria and just you know, just talking with people,
Speaker 1: just being be interacting with people the way that humans
Speaker 1: tends to do and you would kind of take for granted. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, it's economy stealing on the side for the
Speaker 1: football partner that I mean, I know there will be
Speaker 1: a lot of parts that I'm that I'm get to this,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of the uncertainty as will still
Speaker 1: floating around even as we are three weeks and done,
Speaker 1: three weeks away, full and poor day. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for doing this, Stay safe and I look forward to
Speaker 1: seeing in a few weeks. Let's see that. Hi. Thanks
Speaker 1: to Trey Hopkins and Key and Fahey, and that's going
Speaker 1: to do it for this episode of the Bengals Booth Podcast,
Speaker 1: brought to you by Prime Sport, the official fan, travel
Speaker 1: and hospitality partner of the Cincinnati Bengals. If you haven't
Speaker 1: done so already, please subscribe and if you have a minute,
Speaker 1: give it a rating or share a comment that helps
Speaker 1: more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde, and
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to the Bengals Boot Podcast.