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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and guess that it would be

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Speaker 1: safe to say that you guys already know that I

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Speaker 1: have always been fascinated by the unseen because I'm.

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Speaker 2: Such a feeler.

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Speaker 1: You know. It's the things we can feel but we

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Speaker 1: just can't always explain. So when I first came across

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Speaker 1: John Edward years ago, I was instantly curious. You probably

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Speaker 1: remember him from a show Crossing Over, which brought the

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Speaker 1: world of psychic mediums into the mainstream. The nature of

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Speaker 1: what he does, though, it's always sparked conversation and debate,

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Speaker 1: and somehow through it all he has built an incredibly

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Speaker 1: respected and long standing career helping people connect with love.

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Speaker 1: One two have past, and somehow in the meantime he

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Speaker 1: has become a multi best selling author. His book Infinite

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Speaker 1: Quest was actually one of the first that taught me

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Speaker 1: how to protect my own energy as a highly sun person.

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Speaker 1: He also dives deep into the ethics of doing psychic

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Speaker 1: work in that book, which to me is not talked

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Speaker 1: about enough and is so important in one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons I respect him so much. He's back now with

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Speaker 1: a new book called Chasing Evil, which explores his work

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Speaker 1: alongside the FBI. Let's say it's where intuition meets criminal investigation.

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Speaker 1: So in this conversation we get into all of it,

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Speaker 1: the dark and the light sides of human nature and

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Speaker 1: what happens when we let intuition lead the way. So

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Speaker 1: we were talking before the podcast and I said, we

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Speaker 1: have a mutual connection in Bonnie Hammer. She was actually

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Speaker 1: just on the podcast recently. Some my listeners are very familiar,

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Speaker 1: and I have to tell you the backstory with all

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Speaker 1: of this. I had a friend recommend Infinite Quest to me.

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Speaker 1: This was probably six to eight months ago, and it

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Speaker 1: was just because of some things that I was going through,

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Speaker 1: and she was like, you should read this book, like

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Speaker 1: it's really going to help you. I had obviously heard

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Speaker 1: of you and I knew of your work, but I

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Speaker 1: hadn't read any of the books yet. And so I

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Speaker 1: started reading this book and I was just completely geeking out,

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Speaker 1: loving everything you were saying, and I said, I have

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Speaker 1: to have him on the podcast. Like I just got

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Speaker 1: really excited about it. But of course I had no

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Speaker 1: idea how to get in touch with you. So I

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Speaker 1: send a DM and then I see you on your page.

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Speaker 1: You don't respond to dms or ever. DM people, So

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, shoot, okay, I'm just gonna sit

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Speaker 1: with this for a minute. So a couple months goes

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Speaker 1: by Bonnie Hammers, I guess it was her publicist reaches

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Speaker 1: out to me and she has a book that's coming out,

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Speaker 1: and so of course I was like thrilled to have

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Speaker 1: her on the podcast as well. I was also on

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Speaker 1: a show via NBC Universal, so we had a connection,

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Speaker 1: but I had no idea she had been probably your

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Speaker 1: biggest advocate for your show back in the day. So

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Speaker 1: she comes on the podcast and kind of nonchalantly in

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Speaker 1: a story she was telling mention to you, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this is how I connect with John Edward.

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Speaker 1: This is like one of those real roundabout, weird ways.

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Speaker 1: So I waited a little bit on that and then

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Speaker 1: reached out to her people because I didn't I felt

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Speaker 1: was like, is this overstepping you know, I never want

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Speaker 1: to like abuse the connections that I have or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But they were so great about it. They reached out

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Speaker 1: to you, We got connected via email. It was so easy,

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Speaker 1: and then it just validated for me if things are

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Speaker 1: meant for you, they will find you, like we cannot

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Speaker 1: miss them.

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Speaker 2: So isn't that kind of a weird story.

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Speaker 3: I kind of liked that the I like how that

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Speaker 3: came about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it felt good to me too that it

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Speaker 1: was such a surprise, because that, to me says it's

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Speaker 1: no mistake at all.

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Speaker 3: Bonnie's a powerhouse, So there's a I have a very

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Speaker 3: special place for her. Her birthday is the day before

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Speaker 3: my mom's birthday. She had a very metriarchal vibe with me,

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Speaker 3: well not that far off an age, the way that

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Speaker 3: she you know, treated me and shepherded Crossing it Over

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Speaker 3: and and me personally and professionally. I have a great

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Speaker 3: deal of gratitude to her.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean even her powerhouse is the exact word

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Speaker 1: I would use.

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Speaker 2: That was such.

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Speaker 1: She was such an inspiration to me as a woman

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Speaker 1: in business, and because of I think her growth through

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Speaker 1: the years.

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Speaker 2: She spoke a lot to.

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Speaker 1: My listeners about not neglecting your empathy, your compassion, and

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Speaker 1: all of the spiritual things we talk about on this

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Speaker 1: podcast within being a leader, which I just respect so much.

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Speaker 3: I have some very fond memories of like when my

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Speaker 3: first season of Crossing Over started, I was an executive producer,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't really use the title, because I felt

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Speaker 3: like I'd never produced television before. How do I how

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Speaker 3: do I say I'm an executive producer? So I don't

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Speaker 3: believe in the first season it was even on the

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Speaker 3: on screen like that he had even said that. I

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Speaker 3: very quickly, after the first thirteen weeks of doing Crossing Over,

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Speaker 3: learned what the role was and the position was, and

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Speaker 3: what my position needed to be within that. And I

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Speaker 3: remember there's something called was it TSA or the Television

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Speaker 3: Critics TCA? It was TCA, and I wanted to make

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Speaker 3: some changes. So Bonnie and I had a lunch and

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Speaker 3: I said, Hey, I'm I'm an executive producer on the show,

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Speaker 3: and she said you are. I said, so I could

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Speaker 3: like make like the executive producer kind of like decisions,

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Speaker 3: and she said, I went, so, I think I want

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Speaker 3: to make some changes. All she said to me was

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Speaker 3: tell me when they're done.

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Speaker 2: So she just let you have the freedom.

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Speaker 3: Tell me when they're done.

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Speaker 2: Wow, yep wow.

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Speaker 3: And then equally when she met me, she met me

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Speaker 3: at a local hotel ballroom. You know, I was wearing

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Speaker 3: T shirt and jeans, and when I started doing the show,

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, like your idea of what you

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Speaker 3: think you should be doing, you know, kicks in and

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Speaker 3: I wanted to wear my GLFE on television so I

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Speaker 3: looked more erudite in my field. And I wanted to

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Speaker 3: wear a suit so that people would take me seriously

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Speaker 3: because I felt like I should be dressed and I

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Speaker 3: wanted a co host. I didn't want to do the

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Speaker 3: TV stuff. And one of the filming days happened to

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Speaker 3: be the day that I'm wearing a suit, wearing my

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Speaker 3: glasses and we were trying out a co host and

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Speaker 3: Ms Hammer was in the control room and she stopped production,

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Speaker 3: called me into the office or the control room and

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Speaker 3: basically said to me, what are you doing. This is

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Speaker 3: not what we discussed. She goes, You're gonna have to

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Speaker 3: get your butt upstairs. I want your suit off, I

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Speaker 3: want your contacts in. I want the guy that I

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Speaker 3: saw in the hotel ballroom. That's what I want. And

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Speaker 3: no co host, you don't need one? Yeah, no, I

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Speaker 3: need one, And she was like, don't need one. So

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Speaker 3: he earned her last name that day. She brought the

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Speaker 3: hammer down. Yes read it, and you know she had

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Speaker 3: the vision of what she wanted it to be, which

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Speaker 3: was based upon my event. And I, you know, I

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Speaker 3: was dressed very comfortably at my event, and I you know,

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Speaker 3: had my contacts in and there was clearly no co

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Speaker 3: host at my own event. So she was she was correct,

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Speaker 3: and that's why she's who she is, and that's why

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Speaker 3: she's had the success.

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Speaker 2: And absolutely, and.

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Speaker 3: I loved your podcast. I listened to the podcast with hers.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much the hammer. I love that bringing

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Speaker 1: in the hammer, but also she just saw you authentically

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Speaker 1: and wanted you to be yourself, which is completely a

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Speaker 1: part of her skill set that I respect so much

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Speaker 1: as well. Well, I told you before we started, I

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Speaker 1: want to jump into just a couple of basics psychet

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Speaker 1: questions that I'm sure you've answered a million times in

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Speaker 1: your lifetime, but I know my listeners would love to hear.

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Speaker 1: And then we do want to talk about You have

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Speaker 1: a new book out called Chasing Evil that I finished

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Speaker 1: and when I tell you, I could not put it down.

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Speaker 1: I listened to it on an audiobook and I felt

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Speaker 1: like it was one of those people that's like obsessed

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Speaker 1: with Dateline or something, constantly watching it is it will

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Speaker 1: hook you. That book is so good, So I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to talk about that either. But before we start.

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Speaker 1: I know in both books that I've read of yours,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm assuming this is something you say consistently.

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Speaker 1: You say that everyone has psychic abilities and intuition. So

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Speaker 1: what is the difference between someone just having a strong

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Speaker 1: intuition and someone who should be doing reading psychically?

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Speaker 3: Ooh, I like how you phrase that. Okay, very very

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Speaker 3: different question than people normally would ask me. So there's

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Speaker 3: no difference between intuition and psychic ability. They're one of

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Speaker 3: the same. This anonymous, Okay, there is a difference between

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Speaker 3: I think people who should do it for other people. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I think that you are called to do this for

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Speaker 3: other people. So let me take you back to the

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Speaker 3: University of Arizona studies that I was part of. It

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Speaker 3: called the Afterlife Experiments, where myself and a number of

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Speaker 3: other mediums were being tested.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I want to say it was the second Maybe it

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Speaker 3: was a second time we were out there doing these

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Speaker 3: double blind studies. And for those that understand science, every

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Speaker 3: time you do anything scientific, you have to basically repeat

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Speaker 3: and extend what you did. So you repeat the previous

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Speaker 3: test and then you extend to see how far you

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Speaker 3: can kind of like, you know, push the data. Okay,

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Speaker 3: we're there for the second I want to say it's

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Speaker 3: the second time. It might have been the third study,

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Speaker 3: because I was out there for four times, three official

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Speaker 3: and one unofficial. And the scientific moderators came into the

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Speaker 3: room where the mediums were sitting, and opposite me was

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Speaker 3: a woman named Susanne Northrope. Susan Northrop is a colleague

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Speaker 3: of mine. She's also from New York. She's probably got

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Speaker 3: ten years on me experience wise when it comes to

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Speaker 3: doing mediumship, if not fifteen. And I've known her since

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Speaker 3: I'm legitimately like sixteen years old, right, That's how this woman.

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Speaker 3: So I know her a long time, forty years. And

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Speaker 3: she's sitting in front of me and to our left.

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Speaker 3: The scientific moderators come in and said, hey, I'm just curious.

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Speaker 3: You can teach this like you guys can teach people

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Speaker 3: to be mediums. I said yes, she said no. So

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Speaker 3: we had this moment while I had this moment of

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Speaker 3: like I felt completely awkward because I'm like, what do

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Speaker 3: you what do you mean? And she said emphatically, mediums

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Speaker 3: are born, they are not created. And I politely was like, Suzanne,

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Speaker 3: you teach about the subject matter like you teach workshops?

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Speaker 3: What do you mean? Like, you know, you've got like

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Speaker 3: books that you've written about educating people about the subject matter.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't want to, like, you know, call her

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Speaker 3: out and be like what do you what do you mean? Right?

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Speaker 3: So she she said, I will say that again. Mediums

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Speaker 3: are born, they're not created. So we had this like

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Speaker 3: minor psych off in front of the scientific moderators, you know,

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Speaker 3: And then when they walked out, I looked at her

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Speaker 3: and I was like, how could you say that like

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Speaker 3: you teach workshops? Like why would you like you saw

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Speaker 3: classes like you educate and lecture people all the time,

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Speaker 3: You've written books like.

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Speaker 2: Right, make that make sense?

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Speaker 3: Oh? And she looked me dead pan in the face

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Speaker 3: again and said mediums are born, they're not created. So

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Speaker 3: let's say that was in nineteen ninety nine ish or

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Speaker 3: two thousands somewhere around there. I just I agreed to

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Speaker 3: disagree with her. Then crossing over happened. And when crossing

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Speaker 3: over happened, it blew the roof off of the subject matter,

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Speaker 3: and everybody and their brother started becoming psychic mediums all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden. It was like there went people who

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Speaker 3: did taro there went the people who did astrology, There

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Speaker 3: went the people who did regular psychic readings or numerology.

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Speaker 3: Even there were no more psychometrists or pomists. Everybody was

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Speaker 3: a psychic medium. And I remember saying to Susanne after

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Speaker 3: the fact, because she had set me and I still

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Speaker 3: have it to this day. She sent me this amazing

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Speaker 3: stuffed bear. When you squeeze it, it has her voice

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Speaker 3: inside saying congratulations, I'm so proud of what you're doing

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Speaker 3: for the work.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was such a it was a really heartfelt moment.

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Speaker 3: And like I said, it's all these years later, it's

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Speaker 3: twenty five years later, I still have it. I got it.

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Speaker 3: I got it in that moment what she meant, because

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Speaker 3: anybody could say that they're a psychic medium and use

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Speaker 3: their intuitive ability and attempt to do mediumship, but the

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Speaker 3: reality is when you're called upon to do this, you're

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Speaker 3: called upon to do this. And I didn't have the

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Speaker 3: experience that I needed to answer the question in the

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Speaker 3: way that she did. So I'm always very deferential to

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Speaker 3: the people who come before me. I always want to

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Speaker 3: give the props to the shar Margolises, the George Anderson,

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Speaker 3: the Suzanne Northropes, the people who were doing this way

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Speaker 3: before there was a John Edward. And I think what's

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Speaker 3: important is to always learn from above so that you

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Speaker 3: can teach below, right, So in astrology, to talk about

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Speaker 3: as above so below. I kind of feel that when

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Speaker 3: it comes to your own, like your own trajectory, know

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Speaker 3: whose shoulders you're standing on, and know like the accomplishment

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Speaker 3: that came before you. So I give her full credit

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Speaker 3: for educating me. Regarding mediums are born, They're not created.

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Speaker 3: So do I think everybody can develop their psychic ability? Yes?

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Speaker 3: Do I think everybody should develop their intuition in the

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Speaker 3: psychic ability, yes, I think they should do it to

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Speaker 3: the point of looking at life through an energetic lens.

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Speaker 3: For example, both my kids were raised this way. My

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Speaker 3: son's a doctor, he's going into cardiology. My daughter is

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Speaker 3: a singer, dancer, actress, writer, that's what she does, astrologer.

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Speaker 3: But even with her knowledge of astrology, getting her to

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Speaker 3: look at people's charts for me is like an ordeal.

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Speaker 3: It's not her calling. She could do it, but it's

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Speaker 3: not her calling. But that mediums are indeed born, people

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Speaker 3: are born to do this, and that not everybody should

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Speaker 3: do readings for other people, because once you walk through

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Speaker 3: that door, you're now dealing with a different level of

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Speaker 3: karmic interaction with the universe. The level of the level

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Speaker 3: of ethics and responsibility that come into play your life

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Speaker 3: will never be the same. So I'm always the person

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Speaker 3: that when i'm training someone, hor I know that I'm

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Speaker 3: talking to somebody who's in development, in training, I will

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Speaker 3: say to them, are you sure you want to go

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Speaker 3: down this path? Because once you go down this path,

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Speaker 3: and once you gain this knowledge, and once you understand

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Speaker 3: universally how things work, you're going to be looked at,

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Speaker 3: judged or graded. However you want to phrase that differently,

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Speaker 3: because you know better now, So you can't go well,

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Speaker 3: I didn't know, because Yate did. You did know. So

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Speaker 3: do I think that everybody can develop? I do, and

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Speaker 3: I think they should. As you know, you talked about Infinitequest,

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Speaker 3: which is a book that I wrote. I did a

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Speaker 3: series called Project You. I have that on avall plus

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Speaker 3: and I want people to do it, but I don't

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Speaker 3: make the leap into doing it for other people so easily.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean heavy as the crown right, kind of

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Speaker 1: like you said, once you start walking into that world.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole another layer of things and beings and

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Speaker 1: energies that you're dealing with. And so that's what I

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Speaker 1: love so much about infinite quests. You talk about the

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Speaker 1: ethics of that, and I want to get into that

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Speaker 1: in just a second, but I will say when I

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Speaker 1: was first researching for this podcast, it's still coming up online.

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Speaker 1: Just how maybe skeptic people are or that you know

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Speaker 1: that this just isn't scientific. There's a lot of religion

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Speaker 1: type I don't know, people are businesses that will speak

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Speaker 1: against psychics directly. So why do you think this is

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Speaker 1: one of the things that is still in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Five so highly skeptical.

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Speaker 1: There's so many people who are highly skeptical, But then

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Speaker 1: there's also so many people who are leaning more into

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Speaker 1: it and it's such a guiding force in their life. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he's holding up his cell phone. What do you mean

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Speaker 1: by that?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think that people are not looking towards experts

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Speaker 3: in the same way as they once used to. I

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Speaker 3: think people are now getting a false sense of education

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Speaker 3: and empowerment because the algorithm is pushing information to them

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Speaker 3: based upon their interests. So, you know, we just went

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Speaker 3: through a period of time where it was the I

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Speaker 3: don't know, third, fourth, fifth, sixth time the rapture was

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Speaker 3: supposed to be happening, right, and now it hasn't happened.

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Speaker 3: And so instead of people going, oh, I've been duped,

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Speaker 3: this was a man made thing that got created and

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Speaker 3: oh it spawned an industry of books called the Left

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Speaker 3: Behind series and movies and whatever. They go to the

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Speaker 3: place of, well, we're going to move the goalpost. We're

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Speaker 3: going to move it to the next date. What will

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Speaker 3: the next date of the rapture be? Right? So I

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Speaker 3: think whether we're talking about and I'll try not to

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Speaker 3: get agitated with this one because it's my background in

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Speaker 3: healthcare and public health and all that stuff. When you

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Speaker 3: are taking information from people that are online that don't

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Speaker 3: have letters in front or after their name when it

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Speaker 3: comes to healthcare or science, and you are now going

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Speaker 3: to make bold faced, inaccurate statements that can affect the

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Speaker 3: health and well being of other people, that's dangerous. So

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Speaker 3: what they're doing it about religion, politics or whatever. Everybody

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Speaker 3: has this false sense of intelligence or accuracy of their

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Speaker 3: own of what they know, and like I can have

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Speaker 3: a really healthy conversation about astrology with an astrologer. I

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Speaker 3: can make it sound like I can do astrology because

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Speaker 3: I know a lot, but I'm not an astrologer. Right

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Speaker 3: at a certain point, I'm gonna say, Kelly, you need

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Speaker 3: to go to an astrologer because be able to take

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Speaker 3: you to the next place and to the next level.

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Speaker 3: And they're going to explain all of these things. Oh

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Speaker 3: and by the way, they're going to give you the

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Speaker 3: math behind it. They're going to tell you how they

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Speaker 3: got there. They're going to tell you what it means

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Speaker 3: on a level that I can only superficially kind of

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Speaker 3: give you a window into that. So, whether it's science

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Speaker 3: or astrology or this subject matter, it makes me very,

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Speaker 3: very concerned that people are empowered with ignorance. They're empowered

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Speaker 3: by arrogance of what they think they know when they don't.

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Speaker 3: So now that being said, I want to also be

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Speaker 3: very clear I was that person to a degree when

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Speaker 3: I was a kid. When I was fifteen, I did

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Speaker 3: debunk people who did this work when they came to

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Speaker 3: my grandmother's house, which was quite often. I did make

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Speaker 3: fun of the people, you know, I did have those

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Speaker 3: conversations with the relatives that went in for the readings

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Speaker 3: and came out and going like, how do you believe this?

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Speaker 3: Like for real, like seriously explain to why you believe this.

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Speaker 3: Somebody's flipping over a couple of cards and they're giving

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Speaker 3: you an opinion based upon you know, like what exactly.

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Speaker 3: And I was condescending and I was negative. But I

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Speaker 3: also blame it on my youth. I blame it on

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Speaker 3: a youthful ego. I blame it on my ignorance and

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Speaker 3: arrogance of being a fifteen year old kid. But then

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Speaker 3: as I learned, as I studied, Wow, did I recognize

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Speaker 3: how much I didn't know? Somebody once said that I

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Speaker 3: was a kid. I used to think I have all

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Speaker 3: the answers, and now I'm just trying to figure out

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Speaker 3: what questions to ask.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, that is good.

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Speaker 1: I always say the older I get, the less I know,

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Speaker 1: But that is actually that more accurate way to say it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was such a profound statement. It was my

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Speaker 3: cousin's ex mother in law. Her name is March, and

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Speaker 3: as we were walking through Disney Village in Orlando, Florida,

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Speaker 3: She's randomly turned to me, looked at me. She's like,

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Speaker 3: I'm so old now that you know she goes, I

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Speaker 3: used to think I knew I had all the answers,

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Speaker 3: and she goes, now, I'm just trying to figure out

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Speaker 3: which questions to ask. Yeah, and it hit as a kid,

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Speaker 3: it's like, that's kind of profound.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if people listening want to do this kind of

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Speaker 1: work but they're scared. What I'm noticing online is it's

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Speaker 1: almost like the louder the voice, which to me often

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Speaker 1: can be ego, the more praise they're getting, followers, all

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Speaker 1: the things, And so how do we differentiate between that

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Speaker 1: and a person who is truly doing the work that

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Speaker 1: we can trust and be open to.

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Speaker 3: You need to listen through the ear of ego. You

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Speaker 3: need to listen through the through the ear of ego,

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Speaker 3: meaning what is this person's intention, like, what is their intention?

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Speaker 3: Like if you asked me at sixteen what my intention was,

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Speaker 3: then you as my intention is. My intention has never shifted.

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Speaker 3: My intention has never changed. I want to help people.

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Speaker 3: I want to IMpower. I remember being sixteen years old

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Speaker 3: and you know, somebody was leaving my my My office

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Speaker 3: was my grandma's back room, my you know, my backroom,

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Speaker 3: and she said, when can I do this again? And

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Speaker 3: I remember thinking well, I just read you, like I

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Speaker 3: like like the like I just read you. I was like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, like maybe like six months a year

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Speaker 3: from now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then when the woman left, my grandma said to me,

403
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Speaker 3: why are you telling people not to come see you.

404
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Speaker 3: I was like, well, I just read her like, let

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Speaker 3: some life happen. Let's like, let some stuff happen. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And she was like, yeah, but you're gonna You're gonna

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Speaker 3: have no business. I'm like, I'm really not really worried

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Speaker 3: about the business part of it. And that's just it.

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Speaker 3: I was about business. I was never worried about the

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Speaker 3: finances of it. I mean I've had I've had, case

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Speaker 3: in point, doing Crossing Over, I had to read celebrities

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Speaker 3: and they told me that I had to read for

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Speaker 3: Joan Rivers. And right before the week I was supposed

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Speaker 3: to read for Joan Rivers, the e true Hollywood story

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Speaker 3: of Joan Rivers came out and I had watched it.

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Speaker 3: Actually I had watched it first. Then I found out

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Speaker 3: that I had to read Joan Rivers and I made

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Speaker 3: them cancel it. I legit made them cancel it. And

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Speaker 3: the celebrity booker, her name was Laurie Levine. She was like,

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Speaker 3: are you out of your mind? She was like you,

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Speaker 3: it's Joan Rivers. I'm like, I can't do it. I

422
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Speaker 3: was like, I'm going to be in my head. I

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Speaker 3: was like, I can't do it, and she was funny.

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Speaker 3: Joan was actually gracious. She was like, I appreciate that.

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Speaker 3: Tell the kid, I appreciate it, and he owes me

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Speaker 3: a f and reading she did later collect on first sure,

427
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Speaker 3: something else, but I feel like, you know, when you

428
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Speaker 3: are embarking on an intuitive journey, what is the reason

429
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Speaker 3: why you're embarking on it? You want to be able

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Speaker 3: to do, in my opinion, have the most evolved life

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Speaker 3: that you can that you came into this incarnation to learn,

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Speaker 3: and what are the lessons right, because ultimately that's why

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Speaker 3: we're here, Like this is the classroom. The physical world

434
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,200
Speaker 3: is the classroom? Are we learning your lessons? And if

435
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,199
Speaker 3: you feel if you're listening to this right now and

436
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,359
Speaker 3: you feel stuck or stagnant and you're uncertain as if

437
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,119
Speaker 3: you're learning your lessons, well, this medium is going to

438
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,360
Speaker 3: tell you to grab your astrological chart done, because they're

439
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 3: going to be able to look at your natal chart

440
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 3: versus where you are today, and they're going to be

441
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 3: able to say, Okay, well here's where your lessons are. Well,

442
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 3: here's what you're working on. Here's why you're feeling the

443
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,639
Speaker 3: way you're feeling. Whenever somebody has a tremendous tragic loss,

444
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 3: sure I can connect with the person who's passed. I

445
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 3: can have that conversation, and for the time that work together,

446
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 3: I could show you that there's a survival of consciousness

447
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 3: and life and love were eternal. But guess what, your

448
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 3: grief doesn't go away. It stays and you got to

449
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 3: work on it. And then people want to know, but why,

450
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 3: Well have you astrological shart done? And look at the

451
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 3: day and time of that person passed in your own chart,

452
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 3: and you'll find the butt why in that moment, there's

453
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 3: some lesson that's there. So I like to look at

454
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,680
Speaker 3: the bigger picture. But to go back to the skeptical

455
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 3: side of it, I always want people to be skeptical

456
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:33,080
Speaker 3: and I always want them to thinkers about what they're experiencing.

457
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 3: And if you're looking for somebody who's good at what

458
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 3: they do, it shouldn't be about their following account. It

459
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 3: doesn't matter books or TV. And I remember when I

460
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,399
Speaker 3: took the stage at Crossing Over. Every day when I

461
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 3: walked out to film that show, I remember thinking of

462
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,359
Speaker 3: every person out there that was doing the same work,

463
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 3: whether it be taro, astrology, whatever it was that they

464
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,120
Speaker 3: were doing, And I felt like I took the stage

465
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,879
Speaker 3: for the work, for the field, not for John Edward,

466
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 3: but for the subject matter. That was my intention. So

467
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 3: I think it's very very important for people to recognize

468
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: within themselves what's their motivation and their intention, and if

469
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 3: it's to make money, and that's what your job is

470
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 3: right from the get go, I think you fail.

471
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

472
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 3: I was doing this work for a long time before

473
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 3: I left my actual career full time.

474
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 1: So you were still working when you first started doing

475
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: psychic readings.

476
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,640
Speaker 3: Got yah? I started doing Okay, So I started doing

477
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: readings at fifteen.

478
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 2: Okay.

479
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 3: I was in high school all through college. I was

480
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 3: in a master's I was in an accelerated program to

481
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 3: get a master's degree in healthcare and public administration. So

482
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 3: that's what my trajectory was. I was working in a hospital.

483
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 3: I was staying working in the hospital. I got married

484
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,200
Speaker 3: and my wife said to me, why are you killing yourself?

485
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 3: She's like you're working full time at the hospital. She's like,

486
00:24:56,560 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 3: and then you're technically working full time doing readings. Why

487
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: don't you just do the readings? And I remember thinking,

488
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 3: like for my career, no, I'm like absolutely not. I

489
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 3: was like not happening. And she's like, no, I'm just saying.

490
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 3: She's like, you should, you should totally. I was like,

491
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: you shouldn't be thinking that, Like you should be wanting

492
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,159
Speaker 3: me to have like real secure job, right. And I

493
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 3: say this openly, if there wasn't a Sandra, there would

494
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: not have been a John Edward, because she was the

495
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 3: person who was supportive of me leaving my hospital job

496
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 3: to pursue this work full time with complete and unabashed

497
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 3: support without blinking an eye. And I remember thinking like,

498
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 3: that's not normal, Like you should have been concerned. How

499
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 3: are we gonna pay a mortgage? And all she said

500
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 3: to me was I know you you'd find a way. She said,

501
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 3: if you had to go work at a deli, she goes,

502
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 3: you would do work at a Delhi. She goes, your

503
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 3: work ethic is like, you know, ridiculous. So she's like concerned,

504
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 3: she goes, what I was concerned about was you being happy?

505
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:56,160
Speaker 2: Wow?

506
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: That is a good wife. We talked about infinite quest

507
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 1: a little bit, and so much of the book is

508
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,479
Speaker 1: about the ethics of being psychic, which immediately made me

509
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 1: trust you more because it felt like you do so

510
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 1: much work around that piece of it versus just pumping

511
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: out there, like here's how you get a reading all

512
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: the things we've just said. How do you balance that

513
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: responsibility with maybe some of the stuff that you're getting

514
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: about people, or just the responsibility of like the information

515
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: you might receive. Do you always feel like you need

516
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: to tell people? Or has there ever been a time

517
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: where you get something and the ethic part of your

518
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: psychic nature says to you, know, this is not the

519
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: right time for me to deliver that, Like how does

520
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: all of that work?

521
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 3: So I think in any field you have to look

522
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 3: at the ethics and responsibility. Right with a lawyer or psychic, right,

523
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 3: you have to look at your delivery. My philosophy is

524
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: that if I'm getting this information, then there's a reason

525
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 3: why I'm getting it. It's not up to me to

526
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 3: censor it, but it is up to me on how

527
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 3: I'm going to deliver it. So whatever I see here

528
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 3: and feel, I'm going to say with the caveat of

529
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 3: knowing I'm not one hundred percent accurate and fastly misinterpret something.

530
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: So if I see something negative, I don't blurt out

531
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,239
Speaker 3: something negative because what if it's not that? Like, what

532
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 3: if it's just not that? And I I have had

533
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 3: moments where I'm like, I know that this is going

534
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 3: to be negative. I'm not even wondering, like I know it,

535
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 3: like I see it and I know it. So what

536
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 3: I do is I deliver the information in a subtle way.

537
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 3: So you give you an example, Okay, it's how to drive.

538
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: And when you have a new driver in a car

539
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,399
Speaker 3: and you're teaching them how to drive, it's nerve wracking.

540
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 3: I'm sure it's It is a dangerous thing for you,

541
00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 3: for them and for anybody else on the road. Right,

542
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 3: So you don't want to freak them out while they're

543
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 3: behind of a car. You don't want them to You

544
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 3: don't want to cause an accident. You don't want to

545
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 3: cause something that's going to be negative. So even though

546
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 3: there are moments where I wanted to be like stop,

547
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: like I didn't want you know, like you want to

548
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 3: do that, you can't. So instead I would say things

549
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 3: in threes. I would go stop, stop stop, go go

550
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 3: go drive drive.

551
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 2: Drive, Okay.

552
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 3: Give me the feeling like I was saying what I

553
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:37,239
Speaker 3: needed to say without yelling stop, go drive you know,

554
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 3: turn turn, turn, And what it did was it made

555
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: them comfortable and made them receive the direction for me

556
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 3: sitting in the passenger seat. So if I'm helping somebody

557
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 3: drive in their lives, if I say, oh, there's gonna

558
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 3: be a you're gonna have cancer, that would be bad.

559
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 1: Oh.

560
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 3: Instead of you know, yelling out you're gonna have cancer,

561
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 3: I will address their health. I will ask if there's

562
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 3: anything pre existing. I'll have a conversation about their blood work.

563
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: I'll say like, hey, have you had a physical reasonly?

564
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 3: Have you had something in this area before? Is there

565
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 3: anything going on there? About time I'm done with this reading,

566
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 3: I'm going to hit that subject matter probably about twenty

567
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 3: five times. So they're hearing it, They're just not hearing

568
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 3: it with fear, because if I give something with fear,

569
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 3: that might stop them from going to get that checked.

570
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: So basically, you're trying to lay the groundwork for them

571
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: to go get it checked.

572
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 3: Almost I'm trying to lay the groundwork for a person

573
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 3: to make empowered.

574
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 2: Choices, empowered choices. I love that.

575
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, I was thinking about this and I think

576
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: you touched on this in an Infinite Quest as well.

577
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: But I would imagine mediumship comes with a lot of

578
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: positive feelings when you're delivering information, but then there's also

579
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: the things like you just mentioned and possibly scary information

580
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 1: or grief. How do you not take that on yourself?

581
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: So psychic self defense is something I talk a lot

582
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 3: about when I'm teaching about the subject matter. Yeah, that

583
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 3: is a prophylactic measure that you take when you enter

584
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 3: somebody else's vibration so that you can actually swim in

585
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 3: their water without getting wet. It's pretty much the best

586
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: way I can say that. Consider it an energetic condom, right.

587
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 3: It allows you to have the experience and the feeling,

588
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 3: but you don't take stuff with you that is energetically

589
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 3: You never forget that.

590
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: I will never forget that. That's perfect, and that.

591
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 3: Is a thing you need to do, like you need

592
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 3: to protect your energy, because you can other people's stuff

593
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 3: if you are not protected. So it is a conscious

594
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: decision and choice of when I'm going to be reading

595
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 3: what I'm not going to be reading. I'm never going

596
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 3: to enter someone's vibration without their consent. I'm not going

597
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 3: to be sitting on a plane, you know, next to

598
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: someone and then tuning into their energy. It's quite the opposite.

599
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: So when you I worked at a as a manager

600
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 3: adeli when I was a kid, and the owner of

601
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 3: the deli was OCD And if you were not with

602
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 3: a client, you were cleaning. Right. The deli was like spotless.

603
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 3: That's how he had a hatus and it was a

604
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: ingrained in me, clean clean, clean, clean clean. Then I

605
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: went and worked in healthcare in a laboratory. Well, guess what.

606
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: Now you're dealing with universal precautions and protecting your health.

607
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:26,000
Speaker 3: And when you work in a laboratory there's a department

608
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 3: called microbiology, and all you got to do is like

609
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 3: walk through there at one or two times and see

610
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: how things grow, and that'll have an effect on your mindset. Right.

611
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 3: So going from the deli to hospitals, I'm a little

612
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 3: bit germophobic when it comes to like, you know, critters

613
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 3: out there. That being said, I'm energetically germophobic as well.

614
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: I don't want anybody's stuff, right, So if I'm talking

615
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 3: to somebody and they just had a fight, with their spouse,

616
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 3: and that's in their energy. Let's keep it there, like

617
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 3: I don't need that. It's like you wouldn't want to

618
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 3: have a conversation with somebody who's got really bad halatos.

619
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 3: You don't want to smell that. I don't want to

620
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 3: feel your bad energy. I'm very clear on protecting that.

621
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 3: So when you're developing your intuition, you want to have

622
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 3: a very strong, healthy boundary energetically of what you will

623
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: want to do. This is where the ego comes in.

624
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 3: That you're developing, the ego goes, oh my god, and

625
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 3: I talk about it as being your inner monster. Your

626
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 3: ego is the inner monster in development and entitlement is

627
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: what I refer to as it's bitch. So an ego

628
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 3: and entitlment moment coming together with development and somebody gets

629
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: stuck in that moment. Then they don't think they can

630
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 3: be wrong. Then they think that they can read whenever

631
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 3: they want. Then they think they can enter someone's vibration

632
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 3: with or without their consent, because why would you not

633
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 3: want me to do this? Look what I or the

634
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,479
Speaker 3: power of love was so strong from the afterlife that

635
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 3: you know it moved me across the parking lot to

636
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 3: give a message to someone. No, it didn't. Your ego

637
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 3: moved you across the parking lot to get your message.

638
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 3: So it's really really important to understand all of this stuff.

639
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 3: And that is before you even talk to a client, right,

640
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: It's got to be the right time and place.

641
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love this.

642
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 1: You also mentioned that you're wrong because being a psychic

643
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: is it's opened. It's human interpretation of something else, right,

644
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: And I think this a lot of times with all

645
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: the people we put on pedestals at churches or any

646
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: sort of leadership position. It's like, at the end of

647
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: the day, there's still humans on this human journey just

648
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: as we are, and so we're not going to get

649
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 1: everything right. But one of the big things that people

650
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: kind of buck back against the psychic stuff is, well,

651
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: they said this and it wasn't exact, or like time

652
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: being off or things like that.

653
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 2: What would you say about that.

654
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you that the greatest gift I

655
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 3: was given in my development and I share this as

656
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 3: often as I possibly can. A woman that I studied

657
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: with named the Sandianna Staisy, and she said randomly when

658
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 3: I was like sixteen, you know, you don't always have

659
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: to be one hundred percent accurate because you don't. You

660
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 3: don't always have to be one hundred percent right. And

661
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,320
Speaker 3: I remember being confused because you know, as a psychic,

662
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 3: you're supposed to be right right, but you have to

663
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 3: strive to be as close to one hundred percent accurate

664
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 3: as possible. Okay, And there is a very very fine

665
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 3: line between being right and being accurate. And here's the example.

666
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 3: Put me in a room with twenty people to read.

667
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,440
Speaker 3: I will look like I'm one hundred percent right in

668
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 3: that room if I don't educate them about the process

669
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 3: and sometimes being what appears to be wrong when you

670
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 3: are getting as close to one hundred percent as accurate

671
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 3: as possible, meaning there will be things that are going

672
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: to come through in a reading that the client's not

673
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 3: going to know about yet because it hasn't happened. There's

674
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 3: things like my first interview with Bob hilland right when

675
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: he first aated me for that first murder case we

676
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 3: cover in Chasing Evil, he thought I was wrong because

677
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 3: I get the information that he did not have knowledge about.

678
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:21,200
Speaker 3: I became one hundred percent accurate with him when he

679
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 3: talked to his parents outside of the reading. But what

680
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 3: if I didn't push that information, I wouldn't have been accurate.

681
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: So there's a fine line between being just right and

682
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 3: then being accurate, meaning sometimes you have to push the

683
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 3: envelope of your intuition and stick to the information that

684
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 3: you're getting when you are perceived wrong when you're not.

685
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well we have to talk about Chasing Evil now,

686
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: because we've touched on it enough, can you give the

687
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:54,400
Speaker 1: listeners just kind of an overview of exactly what the

688
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 1: book is about before I dive into all my questions.

689
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 3: Sure. In nineteen ninety eight, an agent the FBI named

690
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 3: Robert hilland came to expose me as a calm and

691
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 3: a fraud and to have me arrested to prove out

692
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 3: legit because he heard me on local radio and it pissed

693
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 3: him off. That's the genesis of how we met.

694
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 2: Truly.

695
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 1: I love how much he did not want to believe

696
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: in the work that you do. To start the book like,

697
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: I love how skeptical he was, because I know my

698
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 1: very first psychic reading, I literally went to it with

699
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 1: so much skepticism that I was so excited to report

700
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: back to my friends after about how wrong it was

701
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: or how weird or hokey or anything like that. And

702
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: that was so the energy that Bob met you with.

703
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 3: And he still has it to this day.

704
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 2: Oh, how is that possible?

705
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 3: It's a really good, healthy sense of skepticism. Okay, as

706
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: an investigative mind, but so do I. Yeah, it's like

707
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 3: you could be skeptical about the process, you could be

708
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 3: skeptical about the people, you could be skeptical about what

709
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,000
Speaker 3: it is that you're getting, because all that means is

710
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: that you're thinking, he's no longer cynical.

711
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a good distinction.

712
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,280
Speaker 1: Well, you had said in the beginning of the book

713
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 1: there was a specific reason you never worked with police,

714
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: And I kind of always think about this with psychics too.

715
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 1: Why are more psychics not directly working with FBI police?

716
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: Like our political world right now, it feels like where

717
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: are the psychics? You know, why can't we just get

718
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: the answers that way? So what was your reasoning for

719
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: not wanting to do that kind of work?

720
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: My father threatened me, He told me not to. My

721
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: dad was a New York City police officer and told

722
00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 3: me not to one besmirch his name and to don't

723
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 3: ever let me find out you're working with the police

724
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 3: because he was a police officer, and I said it then,

725
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 3: I'll say it now. I have a great respect for

726
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 3: people who put their lives on the line to protect

727
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 3: other people who serve. He was on the job for

728
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 3: a number of years, and it was never something that

729
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: I felt a pull towards. Just wasn't my thing. Like

730
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 3: I enjoyed working with my clients. I had been pulled

731
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: into other cases along my path before I met Bob,

732
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 3: but not anything like official official. He was the official

733
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 3: for me, So what made you say, yes, my assistant,

734
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 3: can you tell us that story? He had called the

735
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 3: office and I only actually just found this out recently.

736
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 3: I thought he called the office multiple times. So in

737
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: one of our previous interviews, I had said, like, in

738
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: this guy called my office, like you know, so many times,

739
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: and deadpan, he just went no, I didn't, and to

740
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 3: a moment because it was like a live interview, and

741
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 3: I was like what oh, I thought after the fact,

742
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 3: I was like, you didn't call me like multiple times,

743
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 3: and he went no. He was like, hold you want.

744
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,359
Speaker 3: It's really fascinating. It's because my assistant at the time

745
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 3: made it so urgent that that got translated to me.

746
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 3: Has multiple calls for some reason. So to me, I

747
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 3: feel like that was some other universal energy, kind of

748
00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 3: like you know, sitting on me, going like yes, urgent,

749
00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 3: you have to do this. Yeah, And I did, and

750
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 3: I treated it like every other client that I would

751
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 3: work with, you know, just say yes or no, don't

752
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 3: tell me anything. To give information. You're gonna understand some

753
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: of it you're not. I'm going to ask you to

754
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 3: write it down and be open to the process and

755
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: whatever I see here and feel, I'm going to tell

756
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:08,560
Speaker 3: you what it means to me. If I talk about

757
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,479
Speaker 3: people being above you, it's older to the side around

758
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 3: the same ageable who's going to be younger. I be

759
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:13,520
Speaker 3: off by the names, but I won't be off by

760
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: what it sounds, and I won't be off by the

761
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 3: initial Do you have any questions? And he was like no, maybe.

762
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 3: Your assistant said, you know, sometimes you work with objects,

763
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:24,919
Speaker 3: and I said, yeah, I do something called psychometry where

764
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: I could hold onto an object of something and I

765
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 3: could read the energy of the object. And then I

766
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 3: explained that there's two different types of psychometry. There's objective

767
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: psychometry and subjective psychometry. And for your listeners, please never

768
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 3: give a medium a photo of a person who's past,

769
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: and never give them an object that belonged to the

770
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 3: person who's past, because you can energetically feel sense and

771
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 3: pick up on the vibrations of that person and describe it.

772
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:49,720
Speaker 3: No different than if you showed me your family photos

773
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 3: and they're all living. I could look at it and

774
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: I could see the energy the photo and describe it.

775
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,400
Speaker 3: Doesn't mean I'm making a connection and have a conversation

776
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 3: with your relatives.

777
00:39:58,080 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: Oh.

778
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 3: He brought me nine items. I believe five of them

779
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 3: were legitimate from a case of a missing person, and

780
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: four of them were control items that he had took

781
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 3: taken from four different women in his office that he

782
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 3: put into the same type of uh, you know bags

783
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 3: for evidence evidence bags, And he laid them all out

784
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 3: in front of me as if they were all part

785
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: of the same case. And the first thing I did

786
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 3: was remove the four control item and say, I don't

787
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 3: know what these are. They have nothing to do with

788
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 3: your case. And that was pretty much the genesis of

789
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 3: our first meeting went. And then I started getting information

790
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 3: about not just the case and aspects that were going

791
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 3: to help him eventually on that case. But I wanted

792
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:42,479
Speaker 3: making connections with his relatives, and information came through about

793
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 3: his family that he did not have access to, and

794
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 3: that kind of like flipped him out when he went

795
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 3: home and talked to his parents.

796
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:51,359
Speaker 1: I love that he came in with the test and

797
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: you immediately passed it. I mean that did seem to

798
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 1: really lower his guard. I will say one of my

799
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: favorite parts of the entire book was watching his transformation,

800
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: and it was like his opening up and then he

801
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 1: even started to embrace things. I remember there's one part

802
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 1: of the book where you're talking about using sage and

803
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: then him tapping into his own intuition and kind of

804
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: speaking to the other side. What was that like for

805
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: you to witness.

806
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 3: Kind of really like cool, like a really journey. And

807
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 3: like I said, it's what I want for anybody when

808
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 3: they develop an understanding of the world of energy is

809
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 3: you're part of it, So navigate your world. Now he's

810
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,319
Speaker 3: not after twenty five years of working directly with me

811
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 3: and me teaching him right technically, vicariously by working with me,

812
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:43,359
Speaker 3: he's not doing readings. You know, he didn't he didn't

813
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 3: pick up the Gutaro cars. He's no longer he's he's

814
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 3: no local working with the FBI. But he's not doing readings.

815
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: He's he's still doing what he does in a different

816
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: capacity for the government. But the reality is his language

817
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 3: is different, his perspective is different. So therefore it shifts

818
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 3: the environment that he's working with and living through differently.

819
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: And that's the goal. Going back to the first question

820
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 3: of how do you know when you should be doing

821
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 3: readings for other people or how do you know like

822
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 3: you are just developing your intuition for yourself. He's another

823
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 3: great example.

824
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: What is there a difference for you when you're doing

825
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 1: a reading with Joe Shmoe on the street versus when

826
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: you were working with him on these cases? Like were

827
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 1: you getting information in different ways it feel different to

828
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: you or was it all the same? And you, I mean,

829
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 1: there were so many times in the book you would

830
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: call him with such an urgency. How did that look?

831
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 3: So there are a few people in my world, you know,

832
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 3: a couple of celebrities Bob family, that give me open

833
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 3: permission that if I ever get something about them that

834
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 3: I that I have their consent, that I can actually

835
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 3: you know, call them and say, hey, I'm feeling this

836
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 3: like you good, like everything okay? Otherwise I just don't

837
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 3: do that, and with him we kind of developed this banter,

838
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 3: you know, this kind of rapport where he gave me

839
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 3: permission and like, if you get anything else on this,

840
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 3: let me know. A lot of times they didn't, and

841
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,239
Speaker 3: then a few times I did, you know, unexpectedly. You know,

842
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 3: there would be these moments where I would have this

843
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 3: sense of urgency to call him. You know, one case,

844
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 3: I was in Ireland getting ready to do I'm six

845
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 3: hours ahead of him, and I'm you know, getting ready

846
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 3: to go on stage and do an event and I'm

847
00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: getting information on a case that was taking place at

848
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 3: Yale University. Another time, I just landed it close to

849
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 3: midnight in LaGuardia Airport in New York City after I

850
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,959
Speaker 3: was on tour and got information and I was like, dude,

851
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 3: this has to happen now, Like you need to go

852
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,799
Speaker 3: do this now. So we've had those moments and then

853
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 3: we have the equal and opposite moment where he's like,

854
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 3: you know this is really important, like you know, what

855
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,399
Speaker 3: do you get And I'm like I'm not getting I'm

856
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,279
Speaker 3: not getting anything. I'm so sorry, and he'd be like

857
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 3: why not. I'm like, I don't know, I'm late. If

858
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:03,560
Speaker 3: I could answer that, I would tell you, I'd like,

859
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 3: I don't know. So if I had this, you know,

860
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 3: summarize why, I would say, it's probably because there's some

861
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 3: type of lesson, right, you know, And the book ends

862
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 3: on a on a very big lesson of his transformation.

863
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,359
Speaker 3: And I remember, you know, when we were writing the book,

864
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:22,480
Speaker 3: trying to figure out how we were gonna end it, like,

865
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: you know, how do we how do we end this

866
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:30,319
Speaker 3: twenty five year you know, part one of our working relationship. Well,

867
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 3: the universe answered that question for us. And I don't

868
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 3: want to give anything away because I thought you're chasing

869
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,800
Speaker 3: evil because the case that it begins with my journey

870
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 3: with him, not the book, but my journey with him

871
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 3: that that actually missing woman woman, it ends with a

872
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 3: pretty big I'm going to say, blow to his and

873
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 3: to the case legally, and that in that moment, when

874
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 3: that conversation he and I had, I very clearly saw

875
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 3: the ending of the book not from a criminal standpoint,

876
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 3: but from an energetic standpoint. And I think that journey

877
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 3: is the one that's probably the most profound, is that

878
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,160
Speaker 3: oop journey going through this, And that's why I want

879
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 3: people to take away from this people like you know,

880
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 3: I was very open and very anxious about this book

881
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 3: coming out because I had agreed to help him. And

882
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 3: I said, listen, as long as my name's not used,

883
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 3: keep my name out of everything. And he was like,

884
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 3: no problem, I want to keep my job. So like

885
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 3: we had a great working relation. But when this book

886
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 3: was coming out, now the anxiety of all those years

887
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 3: of me being involved with this stuff and not talking

888
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 3: about it, you know, having a producer from crossing Over

889
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 3: calling me up and being like, oh my god, this

890
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 3: was going on while you were doing the show.

891
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't even think about that.

892
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 3: I'm like, yep, it was going on while we're doing

893
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 3: the show. And she said to me, she was all

894
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 3: the attacks that you took back. Then she goes and

895
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 3: you could have just like whip this little factoid out

896
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: and been like, oh, yeah, well, by the way, here's this,

897
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 3: and he said, no. We both had a mutual agreement

898
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 3: that we were going to keep that under outs and

899
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 3: we did.

900
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: And the book does end up kind of being a

901
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: spiritual book after all of the conversation of the crimes

902
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: and the investigations you guys were doing, but it becomes

903
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 1: about the lessons that you learned. One of the things

904
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,560
Speaker 1: you said at the very end really hit me though.

905
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 1: It was something about the universe's justice system being so

906
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: much more profound and great than the one down here.

907
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: And sometimes, you know, I think I know me as

908
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: a person. If you know anything about astrology. I have

909
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 1: so much libra in my charts. I am big on justice,

910
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: like the balance, you know, and I'm just you do too, Okay.

911
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 3: The libra I have, like I have a stellium and

912
00:46:58,200 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 3: libra me too.

913
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

914
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 1: So that's the huge part of what matters to me.

915
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: And there's so many times in this lifetime where I

916
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: feel like, how is this not working out in the

917
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: way that I see would be justice? You know? Can

918
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about that and why you

919
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: think the universe has a better justice system than we

920
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: may ever know.

921
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 3: So my guys gave me that says the analogy. Okay,

922
00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 3: but you got to come to eighth grade science with me,

923
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 3: chemistry with miss Sullivan, and that was every chemical equation

924
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 3: gets balanced in the universe, right, Chemistry, it's all about

925
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 3: balancing the equation. So we are all chemistry. We are

926
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 3: all energy, so we are all equations, and all equations

927
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 3: in the universe get balanced, and we may not watch

928
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 3: that balance happen, but it's happening all around us as

929
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 3: we speak. So when you apply that to karma or justice,

930
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 3: we may feel in our human ego that earthly justice

931
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 3: has not been served. Kelly, I got a list. I

932
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 3: got a list that you and I could probably share

933
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 3: and cross cross reference and be like you got this one, yeah, yeah,

934
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 3: I got to I got this one in bold, And

935
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 3: then I just sit back and recognize that we can

936
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 3: only be responsible for driving our cars. I can't drive

937
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 3: the other people's cars. So as we drive, drive, drive,

938
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 3: we have to break, break, break before we crash into

939
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 3: something that's going to be damaging for us. And I

940
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 3: think when we get all too consumed by what we

941
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 3: perceive as justice must be served, then we actually become

942
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 3: myopic in our ability to operate within the confines of

943
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: the universe we're living in. So my God just told me.

944
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 3: They just said that the justice system to the universe,

945
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:57,680
Speaker 3: you know, pales and compare the justice systems of Earth

946
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 3: pales in comparison to the justice system of the universe.

947
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 3: So we may not we see people get what we

948
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:05,799
Speaker 3: think is their due, but rest assured that they do.

949
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 3: That is the professional side of me answering. The personal

950
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: side has a list. I'm like Aria Stark Game of Thrones,

951
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 3: like I haven't not I could separate the personal side

952
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,839
Speaker 3: and the professional side, and the personal start well by

953
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 3: the way, I have a scorpio rising if that helps.

954
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that for sure, fellow us. You really like

955
00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: revenge and things like that.

956
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 3: A sun, libra, scorpio rising moon and aquarius so not

957
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 3: only wow, I can detach my emotions from from all

958
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 3: of that, which gives me the ability to do what

959
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: I do as well.

960
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 2: That makes sense.

961
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 3: I could be surgical about my readings.

962
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, because that was so much in the book. You

963
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: would not attach emotionally. I would be sobbing with the

964
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: stuff you were saying, Like it was I'm a Piscy's

965
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: moon if that says anything for you, But like it's

966
00:49:52,640 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: it felt so big and heavy, and these conversations are hard, right,

967
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: and you would be able to deliver the information that

968
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: he needed without any sort of a emotional tie to it,

969
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: so then he could go do his job.

970
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:05,680
Speaker 3: The only time I had a hard time was with

971
00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:08,440
Speaker 3: the little boy Noah. Yeah, that was a tough one

972
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 3: because the daddy and me kicked in.

973
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's so to your point about the justice.

974
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: If you guys had focused on what you thought justice

975
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: needed to be with the cases in the book, you

976
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: would have missed the lessons that were being presented to

977
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 1: you on your own journey, both of you. It seems

978
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: like from all of the experiences you had together.

979
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I think it's all about the lesson. Yeah,

980
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: everything's about the lesson. And I literally, I mean I

981
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 3: can go in any area of my life, in any

982
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,759
Speaker 3: year of my life, I could legitimately tell you that

983
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 3: my probably biggest question always is what am I supposed

984
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 3: to learn from this? So I don't got to do

985
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 3: this anymore. I got to learn from this. To the stops,

986
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 3: I got to learn this. I got to repeat, like,

987
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 3: what have I got to learn from this? Is a

988
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 3: really big question that people should really should should ask them.

989
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 3: Oh and by the way, guess what, news flash, just

990
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 3: because you asked a question, and just because you recognize

991
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 3: what the lesson is, the universe is really good at

992
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:16,760
Speaker 3: giving pop quizzes, really really really good. So for anybody

993
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 3: that's listening who's done the work, and I mean legitimately

994
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,879
Speaker 3: you've done your work, you've done your charts, you may

995
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 3: have done therapy, you've done your human design, you've feng shwayed,

996
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 3: you've reiki, you've done all the things right, and you're

997
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 3: now moving on to the next level. And you're ready

998
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 3: for what the next level is. But let's say that

999
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 3: your past pattern was getting involved with somebody who had

1000
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 3: addiction issues. Right, the universe sends this amazing person into

1001
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 3: your life, and you're the happiest you've ever been. Person

1002
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:51,439
Speaker 3: doesn't drink, person's never done recreational drugs. You're like win

1003
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 3: or Winner. This is amazing. Two years into the relationship,

1004
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 3: you wind up finding they have a gambling problem. So

1005
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:01,440
Speaker 3: the addiction issue came out some The universe gives you

1006
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 3: a pop quiz and they say, hey, yeah, did you

1007
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 3: learn your lesson? Oh no, you didn't learn your lesson. Okay,

1008
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 3: So now you're back in school with this person. We'll

1009
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 3: check them, see how you know remedial addiction. Human ego

1010
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 3: one oh one's going for you, and hopefully you'll be

1011
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 3: able to remember all the things that you went through,

1012
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 3: and hopefully you'll be able to evolve through this moment

1013
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,479
Speaker 3: and get back to the empowered version of the life.

1014
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 3: You were living.

1015
00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I always say on this podcast with the listeners,

1016
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: what is it here to teach me? That's what we

1017
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 1: talk about all the time, and it's the same thing.

1018
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: So if you could leave people maybe with one message

1019
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: just of navigating kind of the light and the dark

1020
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: sides of life, because we're all going to you know,

1021
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: I always say life is like a quarkscrew, like we're

1022
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 1: always going to be going up and down.

1023
00:52:47,400 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 2: What would that be?

1024
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 3: I always want people to at their core communicate with

1025
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:55,880
Speaker 3: the people that are in their lives right now, openly

1026
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 3: and honestly about how they feel because sometimes you know,

1027
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 3: I promise tomorrow, and so many people that sit in

1028
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 3: front of me just want to know that their loved

1029
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 3: ones and friends know that they love them, know that

1030
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,799
Speaker 3: they appreciated them. So I think that's a really really

1031
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 3: big one. I mean, we can talk about positive and

1032
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 3: negative and lessons and all that kind of stuff, but

1033
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 3: at the most boiled down, if it's one thing, it's

1034
00:53:18,760 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 3: let people in your life know that you love them,

1035
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 3: that you appreciate them. I think that's really important because

1036
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 3: so many people don't get that opportunity, or they just

1037
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,760
Speaker 3: were living their lives and they missed that opportunity, always

1038
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:33,919
Speaker 3: thinking like oh, I've got you know tomorrow, or they

1039
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,760
Speaker 3: know this until they're not here, and then you wonder,

1040
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 3: I'm my god, did they know this? I never said this,

1041
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,200
Speaker 3: and say the things, and by the way, I mean

1042
00:53:41,239 --> 00:53:43,439
Speaker 3: say all the things like if somebody's pissing you off,

1043
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 3: tell them, tell them and tell them why have the

1044
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 3: conversation about it, you know, And if you're dealing with kids,

1045
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 3: do it with kids as well. You know. I started

1046
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,520
Speaker 3: with my kids very very young, where I would say, hey,

1047
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 3: in case I get abducted by aliens, I want you

1048
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 3: to know this, and they would giggle about the alien's part.

1049
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 3: But then the conversation that took place after that was

1050
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 3: always something profound. So I think, don't waste time because

1051
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,919
Speaker 3: so you can't get back when spent, and that's time

1052
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 3: and money. And don't waste other people's time and money

1053
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,120
Speaker 3: because two things you can't get back are are time

1054
00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 3: and money. So I think communicate, appreciate, and validate the

1055
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,439
Speaker 3: people in your lives today. So that, as I always

1056
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: said on crossing over a meeting, like myself isn't who

1057
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,600
Speaker 3: you're sitting in front of hoping to hear it hoping.

1058
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, John Edward, thank you so much for being here.

1059
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 1: The book is called Chasing Evil. I will put all

1060
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 1: of the links to all of John's books and Evolve

1061
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:42,640
Speaker 1: Plus I just joined. I'm so excited, so I'll put

1062
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:44,440
Speaker 1: all of that in the description of this podcast. For

1063
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:46,439
Speaker 1: you guys, thank you so much for being here.

1064
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,799
Speaker 3: This was an amazing experience for me, so thank you

1065
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,960
Speaker 3: for having me. If anybody wants to join Evolve Plus

1066
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 3: Yeah on TV, go to the web version and cookie

1067
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:01,760
Speaker 3: two zero two five, cookie to zero two and that'll

1068
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 3: deep discount if your listeners.

1069
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: Oh amazing. Okay, I will put that in the description

1070
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: as well. For you guys, thank you so much again,

1071
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 1: it was so lovely meeting you.

1072
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 3: Appreciate it. Good luck out there.