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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff.

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Speaker 2: You're weekly reminder that I have a podcast that comes

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Speaker 2: out twice a week, so it's actually twice a week

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Speaker 2: reminder that I have a podcast. It's also a show

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Speaker 2: where we talk about stuff, and we talk about that stuff,

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Speaker 2: usually to a guest. And this week my guest is Katabugazala,

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Speaker 2: and she's cool and she's my guest, and she's also

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Speaker 2: running for I keep thinking Congress means senate.

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Speaker 1: I'm running for the US House. Yeah, the ninth District

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Speaker 1: of Illinois. And Hi, I'm Kat.

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Speaker 2: Nice to have you. We also have a producer named

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Speaker 2: Sophie Hi. Sophie Hi, Sophie Hi, and our audio engineer

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Speaker 2: is Eva Hi Eva Hi Hi.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to our voices are The musical.

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Speaker 2: Was written force by un Woman. And this is part

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Speaker 2: two on another episode about the things they're trying to

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Speaker 2: take away from us, in this case Habeas corpus Uka.

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Speaker 2: They're not allowed to throw you in jail unless they

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Speaker 2: think you did something, which is such a fundamental right

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Speaker 2: that they literally didn't even think they had to explain

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Speaker 2: it in the fucking Constitution. They only had to explain

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Speaker 2: how to suspend it in the time of crisis. In

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Speaker 2: part one, we talked about hard boiled egg, who wants

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Speaker 2: to take it away from everyone? And I'm just actually

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Speaker 2: not above making fun of certain people. I like, I

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Speaker 2: guess I never really thought it was above making fun

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Speaker 2: of certain people. I think when people are trying to

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Speaker 2: eradicate you, that's like a nice thing you can do

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Speaker 2: is only make fun of them. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: As someone that grew up conservative, like someone comes in

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Speaker 1: good faith, like if you're ignorant, Like yeah, like ignorance itself,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't know what you don't know. I mean

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Speaker 1: I didn't know about like the Dakota people being executed.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea about that. Yeah. But like if

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Speaker 1: someone's trying to tell you to justify your existence, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to do that. Yeah, we should just understand

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Speaker 1: that we don't need to take in good faith and

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Speaker 1: as people are idiots.

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Speaker 2: I think that's such a good point. Is like specifically

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Speaker 2: around good faith, is like there are people who like

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Speaker 2: don't know things, and I don't know things. I learned

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Speaker 2: that every week. I read a ton of books and

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Speaker 2: essays and articles every week, and I learned so many

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Speaker 2: new things. And yeah, if you can engage with someone

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Speaker 2: in good faith, engage with them in good faith. I

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Speaker 2: do believe in talking to people and figuring out our

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Speaker 2: differences and shit, and some people are trying to kill

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Speaker 2: us all and I'm being real nice if all I

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Speaker 2: do is call them hard boiled eggs, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: some part one we talked about Stephen Miller and Trump

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Speaker 2: administration talking about getting rid of the most basic right

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Speaker 2: in the concept of a legal system. And so we're

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Speaker 2: talking about where that concept of a legal system came

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Speaker 2: from English common law, which means we have to talk

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Speaker 2: about England, which historically is not my favorite thing, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes it's kind of interesting. And it's interesting when you

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Speaker 2: don't look at so and so begat so and so

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Speaker 2: and then they built an army to fight so and so,

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Speaker 2: but instead look about like what peasants were doing, and

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Speaker 2: the fact that everyone started off not as colonial people,

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Speaker 2: even the English, because they were called the British at

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Speaker 2: the time. Okay, British history a long ass time ago,

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Speaker 2: like BCE or whatever. Celtic people lived on the island.

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Speaker 2: They weren't the first people to live there or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But we're going to start with them. The southern trunk

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Speaker 2: of the island what's now England was a Celtic group

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Speaker 2: of people known as the Britons. They spoke the Celtic

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Speaker 2: language Brittonic. In forty three AD, Rome was like you're

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Speaker 2: in the Empire now, and they called it Britannia and

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Speaker 2: they held it until the early four hundreds. Usually when

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Speaker 2: people talk about Rome leaving because people call the time

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Speaker 2: afterwards the Dark Ages, which is a lie, and every

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Speaker 2: historian will roll their eyes if you say the Dark Ages.

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Speaker 2: But I really like it because it's really metal sounding,

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Speaker 2: but it's presented as this abandonment, right the Romans were

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Speaker 2: busy elsewhere, they couldn't keep up the colony. Britannia fell

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Speaker 2: into ruin in darkness, but at least one historian I've

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Speaker 2: read a man named Tony Dyer who's pamphlet Anglo Saxon Democracy.

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Speaker 2: We're actually going to talk about him and what he's

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Speaker 2: up to these days at the very end of this episode.

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Speaker 2: It's actually really interesting. He wrote a pamphlet called Anglo

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Speaker 2: Saxon Democracy about fifteen years ago. It's one of my

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Speaker 2: main sources for this part of the story, and it

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Speaker 2: presents a very different example of how even the Roman

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Speaker 2: abandonment could have gone down in three eighty three. This

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Speaker 2: is what I was saying earlier about I live in

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Speaker 2: the past instead of the present. I'm like, I spent

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Speaker 2: all day reading about three eighty three AD or whatever.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't know what's happening in the twenty

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Speaker 2: first century. In three eighty three, Rome started pulling back

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Speaker 2: its troops because they were needed elsewhere. And then in

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Speaker 2: the year four oh six, the quote unquote barbarians crossed

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Speaker 2: the Rhine and started heading towards Rome. So by fourteen

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Speaker 2: ten there's barely any troops left in Britannia. Basically, by

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Speaker 2: fourteen ten, the Romano British, because they're no longer just

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Speaker 2: the British. They've integrated with each other in various ways

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Speaker 2: over hundreds of years. They're like, get the fuck out

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Speaker 2: of here, we can do this for ourselves, right, And

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Speaker 2: there's this whole movement I hope to come back to

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Speaker 2: on this show, mostly in Gaul what's now France, especially Brittany,

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Speaker 2: the chunk of northwest France. That shit confused me for

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Speaker 2: a million years. The fact that the Normans do get

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Speaker 2: their name from Norway, but they're from France, and then

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Speaker 2: Britannia is part of France. It's just like it's fucking

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Speaker 2: speaking of not having enough names, a bunch of people

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Speaker 2: teamed up into massive peasant armies the bakude from a

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Speaker 2: Gaulish word for fighters, and these were people who are

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Speaker 2: tired of high taxes and low benefits basically like Rome

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Speaker 2: coming and taking their money and not actually providing social services,

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Speaker 2: because governments should provide social services. That's the exchange for taxes.

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Speaker 1: Hello, yeah, say it again. Brought up people in the back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then there's a lot of upright scenes if

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Speaker 2: you don't give people social services and just take their money.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: It's one of those things too where people are like

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Speaker 2: like the libertarian right is just like, oh, taxes are

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Speaker 2: the problem, and you're like, well, tax is the fun.

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Speaker 2: Certain shit is like I don't mind that we all

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Speaker 2: collectively keep the roads maintained and make sure people have

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Speaker 2: houses and don't die. That sounds great.

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Speaker 1: I think that's good. Yeah yeah, but like what if

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Speaker 1: we all like paid our fair share, like all of us,

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Speaker 1: like every one of us to live in a society.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it wasn't a way to extract money from

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Speaker 2: people and put it towards it, like, oh, I don't

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Speaker 2: know fucking Elon Musk's various schemes to take money from

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Speaker 2: the government for carbon credits or whatever.

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Speaker 1: As someone that was laid off because of Elon Musk

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Speaker 1: and just finish my taxes as a freelancer.

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Speaker 2: Ooh, you got to pay double.

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Speaker 1: I got to pay double and I am on a

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Speaker 1: payment plan with IRS. Oh fuck yep, first year I've

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Speaker 1: had to do that. Yeah, check out my financial disclosures

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Speaker 1: if you're curious. Seeing an independent contractor and having to

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Speaker 1: pay taxes in this country is defly a villain origin story.

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Speaker 1: That's like yeah, yeah, it's wild. And then like having

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Speaker 1: to fill out of public financial disclosure form like the

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Speaker 1: House Ethics Committee like you have interest and it's like

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Speaker 1: one to two hundred dollars and like the House Ethics

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Speaker 1: Committee literally is like you're a broke bitch. Cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So independent contractors paid double taxes and do whatever everything.

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Speaker 1: Podcasters in Old England were also doing.

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Speaker 2: That, yeah, exactly. Yeah, And we know about these peasant

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Speaker 2: uprisings in France and we also know that they kind

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Speaker 2: of went to Spain, like a lot of places at

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Speaker 2: the fringes of the Roman Empire. The argument is that

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Speaker 2: they were probably there in England. There's not a lot

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Speaker 2: of written sources during the quote unquote dark ages, and

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Speaker 2: that is the one part that is true. Is the

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Speaker 2: first couple hundred years after the Romans leap, there's like

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Speaker 2: not a lot of people writing shit down. But people

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Speaker 2: are like, we don't like fucking giving roam our money

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Speaker 2: and not getting anything back. And some of those people

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Speaker 2: were enslaved who joined these peasant armies, and so they

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Speaker 2: had an extra reason to hate the economic arrangement of

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Speaker 2: the time that said, getting rid of Rome does not

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Speaker 2: get rid of slavery. Slavery stays threat the entire story

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Speaker 2: we're telling, it starts transitioning to more like surf, dumb

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Speaker 2: and stuff in the eleventh century. Anyway, people argue about

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Speaker 2: the intentions of the Bakudai, who I don't know how

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Speaker 2: to pronounce because it looks like a Latin thing, but

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Speaker 2: it's actually from a Gaulish word, and I don't fucking

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Speaker 2: understand Gaulish. But people try to argue and like slot

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Speaker 2: them into various things. They're nationalists, they're the people who

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Speaker 2: love France, and they're therefore probably fascist, but in a

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Speaker 2: good way. According to that story, they're Marxists, they're Christians.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of people, i'm sure, who are arguing

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Speaker 2: that they're like anti civilization pagans, but in a good way. Whatever.

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Speaker 2: They're peasant uprisings. I like them. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: the fuck they're doing. They seem to have wanted to

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Speaker 2: return to pre Roman traditional methods of cooperative land ownership,

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Speaker 2: and it's quite likely that the British equivalent was part

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Speaker 2: of driving the Roman government off the island. And I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say the Roman government because it doesn't seem

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Speaker 2: to have been about driving the Roman ethnicity off the island,

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Speaker 2: because modern conceptions about ethnic purity don't apply well to

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Speaker 2: pre modern people. And I know probably a lot of

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Speaker 2: right wing dick bags aren't listening to this show. But

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Speaker 2: if you are and you romanticize, like ye old the

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Speaker 2: Dark aged sword shit, you're just wrong if you then

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Speaker 2: turn it to Nazi shit. Is my argument. The Roman

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Speaker 2: government's gone now the Romano British people remain, and that's

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Speaker 2: when they start doing really cool shit. First they have

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Speaker 2: to get by some accounts invaded by modern historical understandings

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Speaker 2: they just get all ethnically and culturally mixed up. Is

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Speaker 2: a combination of rating and migration from the Angles and

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Speaker 2: the Saxons. The origin of the Anglo Saxons or these

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Speaker 2: two Germanic groups. Another term that historians generally hate is

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Speaker 2: Anglo Saxons.

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Speaker 1: Really, I didn't know that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of interesting to me. Okay. They absolutely

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Speaker 2: agree that there were Angles and Saxons, and they are

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Speaker 2: Germanic people, and they started living in France and England basically,

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Speaker 2: and they started settling a bunch of places, but they

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Speaker 2: didn't replace the population. They're only a tiny percentage of

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Speaker 2: the population. And so there is a cultural thing of

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Speaker 2: like the Germanic influence, but it's not as much as

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Speaker 2: people think. And so everyone who's like a proud Anglo

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Speaker 2: Saxon from England probably isn't. They're probably just wrong. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's funny because then the Wasps aren't actually wasps,

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Speaker 2: and the Angles and the Saxons they start invading and

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Speaker 2: settling a bunch of places. The Saxons actually started arriving

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Speaker 2: before Rome even left, but it wasn't quite colonization. They

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Speaker 2: would settle somewhere and the culture would shift but not

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Speaker 2: in a like you're part of the Roman Empire now

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Speaker 2: it wasn't like haha, the Germanic Empire has expanded the

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Speaker 2: same Germanic groups are similar ones like the Franks started

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Speaker 2: showing up in gaul what's now frank Sorry France, but

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Speaker 2: the France comes from the word Frank, right, the Franks

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Speaker 2: gave their name to France, and therefore the name of

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Speaker 2: the French language. But interesting at least to me, and

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Speaker 2: possibly that's that. What else? But I find this shit

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Speaker 2: fucking fascinating. French itself, the language doesn't come from the

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Speaker 2: Frankish Germanic language. French the language because it's a Romance language, right,

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Speaker 2: whereas English is a Germanic language. French mixes Vulgar Latin

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Speaker 2: with Gaulish in its roots.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the funny pronunciation of France it's very

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Speaker 2: different than all the other Romance languages. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: that's the Gaulish influence. But I read a bunch of

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Speaker 2: articles about it, and they're all written for linguists. I'm

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Speaker 2: not a linguist.

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Speaker 1: Someone that's a linguist listening to this tag me and

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Speaker 1: backpi this last note.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you're telling us that we're wrong. It's okay.

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Speaker 1: I didn't say anything. It would be you that's wrong. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because once again on.

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Speaker 2: Perfect Actually you sent the script to me before we started.

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Speaker 2: How can we am I not supposed to tell anyone

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Speaker 2: that that you wrote this, that.

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Speaker 1: I wrote this? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wrote this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is what I've been studying my congressional campaign on. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely none of that is true for the people

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Speaker 2: who take everything too literally. In England, it was the

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Speaker 2: Germanic language that won out English. The language wiped out

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Speaker 2: the Celtic language of Brittonic, although Welsh survived as an

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Speaker 2: offshoot of this.

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Speaker 1: Oh but Brittonic is such a cool name. I know

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Speaker 1: that's also an envy name for sure, one hundred percent right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And it was someone who was named Brittany

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Speaker 2: and they changed their name to Brittonic and I support you.

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Speaker 1: Amazing.

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Speaker 2: So because English one, people tend to assume, oh, they

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Speaker 2: got rid of the Britons, right, they're wiped out, and

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Speaker 2: that's just not true at all. Modern DNA analysis confirms this.

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Speaker 2: To quote that historian Tony Dyer quote, rather than a

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Speaker 2: mass genocide and almost total population replacement to create England,

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Speaker 2: The reality is that even in England, the Anglo Saxons

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Speaker 2: remained a minority, outnumbered by Romano British quote unquote natives.

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Speaker 2: In fact, many geneticists now agree that somewhere in the

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Speaker 2: region of seventy percent of the genetic makeup of the

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Speaker 2: population of England can be traced back to the Paleolithic

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Speaker 2: period hunter gatherer population, basically meaning that these invasions added

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Speaker 2: slightly to the genetic diversity but didn't wipe anyone out.

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Speaker 1: Interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally right. I don't like playing games about

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Speaker 2: genetics and bloodlines is like a general rule. But it's

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Speaker 2: important that a popular understanding of this era tends to

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Speaker 2: be wrong, and that basically people who are like, ah,

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Speaker 2: this is the way it is and has always been,

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Speaker 2: the strong replaced the weak, you know, like the fucking

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Speaker 2: conquered not stolen people. Have you ever seen these? I

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Speaker 2: don't know how much of your time you spend countering

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Speaker 2: Nazi graffiti, but there's like stickers that Nazis put up

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Speaker 2: that say conquered, not stolen with a picture of America,

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Speaker 2: you know, and they're like, this is just the way

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Speaker 2: it is, this is our human animal nature. No, you're

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Speaker 2: just fucking Nazis right, Like, there are examples of this

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Speaker 2: happening throughout time, but there's so many examples of even

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Speaker 2: like fucking Viking ass raiders who kill and slave and

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Speaker 2: do all kinds of horrible shit, still not genociding people

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Speaker 2: to replace them, but instead eventually cohabitating the area. No

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Speaker 2: modern comparisons need to be drawn about any current geopolitical.

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Speaker 1: Everything has only happened one time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, So these dreaded dark ages come and popular

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Speaker 2: imagination has a time of chaos and anarchy and bloodshed

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Speaker 2: and everyone getting wiped out and rule of the week

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Speaker 2: by the strong, until one day all power will be

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Speaker 2: centralized and everyone becomes Christian and monarchy sets everyone straight.

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Speaker 2: But that's not what said everyone's straight. What set everyone

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Speaker 2: straight was the sweet, sweet deals that we are offering

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Speaker 2: you are listeners, where actually there's almost never any deals

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Speaker 2: in any of our ads.

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Speaker 1: They've gone through millennia to come here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. That's why this episode is brought to

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Speaker 2: you by the well I forget the name of it,

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Speaker 2: and so the sponsor is going to be mad, But

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Speaker 2: I belie leave the Celts. I think it was the Celts,

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Speaker 2: but maybe it was the picks. I don't know. They

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Speaker 2: had a throwing axe and it was really neat and

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Speaker 2: the people at the front of the battle would throw

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Speaker 2: the throwing axe and it would bounce, and everyone's gonna

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Speaker 2: be mad at me for not knowing the name of this.

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Speaker 1: I want to bounce you throwing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you throw the axe as you're like running

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Speaker 2: into battle, usually naked, maybe be covered in blue or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and then it would bounce and then it would kind

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Speaker 2: of like cause chaos as it bounced through the ranks

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Speaker 2: of the enemy.

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Speaker 1: I just have like a very large axe that Robert

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Speaker 1: gave me. That sounds faut, right, Yeah, that's pretty good.

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Speaker 1: It's engraved on one side it says fuck you and

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Speaker 1: on the other side it says pay me. It's really

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Speaker 1: kind of amazing. But I don't think it would bounce

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Speaker 1: because it weighs more than Anderson.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say, if you ever have to home defend,

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Speaker 2: don't use that because it'll look really bad for your

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Speaker 2: self defense case.

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Speaker 1: Here's ads.

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Speaker 2: Yeah they are and we're back, and I want to apologize,

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Speaker 2: dear listener, I have led you astray. I implied that

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Speaker 2: the Francesca the throwing acts that I was just discussing.

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Speaker 2: I implied that it was Celtic. It was not. It

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Speaker 2: was traumatic. It gets its name from the Franks, so

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Speaker 2: really just the opposite side of the conflicts. I was

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Speaker 2: just discussing. And one, I know, they're really pretty. They

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Speaker 2: have a kind of a curved head a little bit.

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Speaker 2: They're like, they're cool. Yeah. Anyway, I just want to

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Speaker 2: apologize to Francesca. Anyone named Francesca. You have a pretty

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Speaker 2: cool name. You can be thrown into battle and cause

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Speaker 2: chaos among the enemies, which is a neat thing to

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Speaker 2: be able to do. Or you can wield a Francesca

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Speaker 2: as Francesca. You have so many options. Anyway, instead of

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Speaker 2: actually being a period of there is warfare and shit,

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Speaker 2: like it's not like peaceful happy times, but like you

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Speaker 2: actually have a period that has the origins of a

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Speaker 2: lot of the better parts of Western political structure, because

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Speaker 2: when peasants and shit kick roam the fuck out, they

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Speaker 2: return to what can be understood as a plan or

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Speaker 2: tribal structure by and large, Specifically, to quote Tony Dyer again,

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Speaker 2: quote it is probable, and a lot of the probables

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Speaker 2: around the seat. He provides tons of evidence and shit

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Speaker 2: that I'm just not going to get into about like

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Speaker 2: where there's mounds and forests and what has been abandoned

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Speaker 2: and what hasn't or whatever. But there again, not a

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Speaker 2: lot of writing during this period. It is probable that

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Speaker 2: following the end of the Roman occupation of Britain, the

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Speaker 2: local population regained control of their own territories, returning to

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Speaker 2: a form of governance based on kindred groups working with

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Speaker 2: other kindred groups, and a relationship in which local people

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Speaker 2: made local decisions whilst also contributing to a wider political territory.

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Speaker 2: And so the reason I'm calling it bottom up instead

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Speaker 2: of just like purely decentralized is most decisions are happening

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Speaker 2: at all local level, and some decisions are happening at

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Speaker 2: a larger level. Just like No, yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 2: would argue that we're kind of top down.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I've been like a lot of like really

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Speaker 1: impactful stuff that you don't even hear about topics with

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Speaker 1: the local and state life.

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Speaker 2: No, totally, And like a very good and active thing

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Speaker 2: that needs to be done is to continue to try

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Speaker 2: and remind democracy that it fundamentally should be a bottom

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Speaker 2: up thing, or it is a less democratic The more

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Speaker 2: top down it is, the less democratic it is. And

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Speaker 2: this is a pattern I've seen again and again, no

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Speaker 2: matter what time or place I look. When you get

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Speaker 2: rid of empire, what replaces it is rarely warlordism, although

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Speaker 2: I think it is sometimes warloadism, and I just won't read

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Speaker 2: those books as much. But you get time and time

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Speaker 2: again bottom up democratic assemblies, and no one ever talks

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Speaker 2: about community assemblies, and then how they start federating with

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Speaker 2: one another to make larger decisions. But this happens over

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Speaker 2: and over again, and that's what they were doing in

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Speaker 2: Dark Age is Britain to greater or lesser degrees. And

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Speaker 2: you can trace a direct path, and I'm going to

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Speaker 2: over the next however long we're continue to record, you

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Speaker 2: can trace a direct path from these local assemblies to

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Speaker 2: the modern parliamentary system of Western democracy, and you would

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Speaker 2: form kinship groups, and those groups would form larger groups.

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Speaker 2: And specifically, these groups have a lot of what we

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Speaker 2: talk about a lot on the show, the commons, the

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Speaker 2: thing that gets stolen from us by the enclosure, which

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Speaker 2: is in this ye oldly dark Age. I'm gonna keep

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Speaker 2: calling it the dark Ages. So every historian's already mad

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Speaker 2: at me, But it's just like the nice period of

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Speaker 2: Gothic spookytom and the sun never came out. Well yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know, Well it was England. I've only been there

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Speaker 2: a couple of times. And when I like Land, you

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Speaker 2: just like move through a sea of clouds and then

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Speaker 2: just like are like in the soup of England when

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Speaker 2: you get there. Nearly all privately owned land and resources

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Speaker 2: were owned by an entire clan. There was like private

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Speaker 2: ownership of land, but it was communal private ownership of

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Speaker 2: land or potentially a whole village. But everything that wasn't

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Speaker 2: privately owned was the commons. Places you could graze your sheep, woods,

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Speaker 2: you could go hunt and gather wooden rivers to fishing.

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Speaker 2: And importantly, this structure looks a lot like what both

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Speaker 2: Celtic and Germanic groups would be familiar with going back

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Speaker 2: to at least the second millennium BC. So the Britons,

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Speaker 2: the Angles, and the Saxons could all be like, ah,

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Speaker 2: this just makes sense. We don't have a fucking empire

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Speaker 2: over us anymore, so we go back to doing this thing.

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Speaker 2: And this part matters to me because again, like anytime

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Speaker 2: I read about like the idyllic folk past or whatever

396
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Speaker 2: they literally get called folk, moot the organizations they have.

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Speaker 2: I worry about the kind of shit that Nazis like romanticizing.

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Speaker 2: So I want to point out again to my imaginary

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Speaker 2: Nazi listeners made it this far.

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Speaker 1: Nazis love those podcasts, obviously.

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Speaker 2: I know, right, I will say, compared to like writing,

402
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 2: very few people hate listen to podcasts, and I think

403
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 2: that's saved me a lot of trouble.

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Speaker 1: Like listening to a whole last podcast. Yeah, to hate listen,

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Speaker 1: that's just exhawesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you did media the right wing shit

407
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 2: for a very long time. You did that hard one,

408
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 2: so I would know exactly. So anyone hate listening, you

409
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: might be thinking. Yees see, when they kicked out the

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Speaker 2: Roman foreigner, they had a good idyllic utopia. Again, First

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Speaker 2: of all, they didn't kick out ethnically Roman people. A

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Speaker 2: lot of them were ethnically Roman. They moved to a

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Speaker 2: traditional style of governance for their own area. But both

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Speaker 2: Germanic and Celtic traditions have a bunch of laws saying

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Speaker 2: that strangers are welcome to become members and like citizens

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Speaker 2: and even nobility in any of these groups. So fuck

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Speaker 2: you Nazus.

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Speaker 1: How do you become nobility? Oh?

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Speaker 2: I want to find more about it. I was like

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Speaker 2: that part. I tried to look a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: I think that there's this idea that be really hot. Yeah, honestly,

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Speaker 2: probably a lot of the like becoming nobility in a

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Speaker 2: smaller area is around the sort of person in charge

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Speaker 2: giving you like special privileges or whatever and being like

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Speaker 2: you're my favorite basically, and it does fight against the

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Speaker 2: egalitarianism of this area. And there's this give and take

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Speaker 2: between egalitarianism and a noble system that's like constantly happening.

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Speaker 2: But probably the answers that be really hot. Yeah, actually, okay,

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Speaker 2: I know anthropology is really dangerous when you like compare

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Speaker 2: one group to another, right, But in our episodes about

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Speaker 2: the weird pirate utopias on Madagascar, it did talk about

432
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,159
Speaker 2: a lot of people becoming nobility not by showing up

433
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,120
Speaker 2: and being like haha, I'm in charge, but literally by

434
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 2: showing up and being like I am now part of

435
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,000
Speaker 2: your organizational system and people being like, great, you're like

436
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,880
Speaker 2: a weird foreigner. You're a noble now because you're interesting,

437
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 2: you have different stories and shit. Yeah, and there's a

438
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: lot of like chiefs marrying their daughters to foreigners and

439
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,359
Speaker 2: stuff like that, and so it might be through a

440
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: similar way. But whenever you compare anthropologies, you're playing dangerous games.

441
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 2: So a regional level above this hyper local level, which

442
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 2: was the kingdom, which was not like England. Yet there's

443
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 2: all these little kingdoms and there's general a king. I'm

444
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,800
Speaker 2: not a big fan of kings. Historically, Tolkien would fucking

445
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,439
Speaker 2: love this shit and probably did. This is probably how

446
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 2: he because he's like a weird anarcho monarchist, which is

447
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 2: absolutely a contradiction in terms, but he's interesting in the

448
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 2: strange guy. When you imagine a king of England, you're

449
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 2: imagining wrong. When you imagine these folks at the beginning,

450
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,120
Speaker 2: by the end of this era, you're thinking, right. There

451
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,119
Speaker 2: was a council of wise men, the Watan especially what

452
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,439
Speaker 2: you're running for, and they would meet at the witten

453
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,600
Speaker 2: Moot to advise the king and serve basically as the

454
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 2: highest court in the kingdom, and most likely they met

455
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: to elect the king. There's arguing among historians about whether

456
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 2: or not kings during this era were elected directly by

457
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 2: the Wittan, or the Wittan would get together to sign

458
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:51,159
Speaker 2: off on like yeah, yeah, the king's eldest son is

459
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: the heir as like a formality. But a tenth century

460
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,719
Speaker 2: abbot named Alfrick, which is a good name. It's got

461
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: that ae at the beginning. Bring that back, don't. It's

462
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,439
Speaker 2: probably bad. It's everyone he probably wants to do. That

463
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: is bad, but it's not boring. Alfrek wrote, quote, no

464
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: man can make himself king, but the people has the

465
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 2: choice to choose as king whom they please. But after

466
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: he is consecrated as king, he then has dominion over

467
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: the people and they cannot shake his yoke off their necks.

468
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 2: So the Witan, though, actually did depose at least two

469
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,360
Speaker 2: kings in the eighth century. They were like, no, you're

470
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: not doing right, bias, you gotta go. The king in

471
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 2: this period had a mandate from the people, and so

472
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 2: there is a comparison that can be made to these

473
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 2: early kings with a mandate from the people to a

474
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 2: modern politician. That can't be made to a later king

475
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:50,919
Speaker 2: right only centuries later, as the Church gains more power,

476
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 2: does the mandate explicitly come from heaven instead the earlier

477
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: kings were selected ostensibly. I'm sure that this was absolutely corrupt,

478
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 2: and they're shitty kings everywhere. And I'm not defending monarchy,

479
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: but the earlier kings were selected because people were like,

480
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: we want someone to keep us safe and keep this

481
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 2: whole place peaceful. We think this guy will do it.

482
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: Over the centuries, as Tolkien predicted, power will corrupt people.

483
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 2: The kings will start amassing more and more power. In

484
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 2: the earliest days of this, you don't actually owe the

485
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: king anything unless he shows up, Like you just kind

486
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: of most of the year, you're these autonomous villages doing

487
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 2: your own autonomous thing, and then every now and then

488
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: the king rolls through and he's like, hey, I'm the king,

489
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 2: and people are like, huh, all right, I guess you're

490
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: in charge today. How long are you stay in You're

491
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: gonna be here long And they're like, you know, they

492
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 2: give him us taxes and shit, and it's like having

493
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 2: really annoying in laws. Yeah, totally, the king is you're

494
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: in laws. You can have some of our stuff and

495
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 2: be in charge for a minute. I guess, because by

496
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: and large, more of the power resided, even though there's

497
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 2: the higher court. More power resided not with the wits

498
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 2: and moot, but with the folk moot, the people's gathering,

499
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: the assembly. Basically these were at much smaller levels. I

500
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 2: am unclear who could vote in these assemblies. The inference

501
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: again not a lot of writing. The inference is that

502
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,919
Speaker 2: it was free men because there's slavery in this period,

503
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 2: although most slavery in Britain during this period is not

504
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: people in these villages owning people, but instead people in

505
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,399
Speaker 2: these villages getting stolen and sold. So hooray, and women

506
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 2: were likely allowed to be there but not vote. Is

507
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: the best I can tell by comparing if it's analogous

508
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: to an Icelandic thing that we do have more information

509
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: about anyway, the other Germanic ones, these assemblies, they weren't

510
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 2: called vocalots. They were called things, and that's where the

511
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 2: word thing comes from. So if you're like, hey, you

512
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 2: go into the thing, you're actually more accurate than if

513
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 2: you're like, hey, can you hand me the thing? Because

514
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 2: the thing was a gathering.

515
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, oh my god.

516
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

517
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,440
Speaker 1: I love learning etymology like those.

518
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 2: I know, and like half of this is just about like,

519
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: isn't language neat The folk moot would meet to sort

520
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: out the taxes and conscription into the army, and hear

521
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 2: out grievances basically to put people on trial. These were

522
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,640
Speaker 2: trials based on evidence and testimony and involve neutral third parties.

523
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 2: So this idea of like, ah, back in the day,

524
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,399
Speaker 2: it was Game of thrones, and whoever had the biggest

525
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:25,160
Speaker 2: sword is innocent or whatever. It's not the thing. That's

526
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 2: not what happens at the thing. Thank you, thank you,

527
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 2: I appreciate it to laugh. And these were trials based

528
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 2: on evidence, and then everyone involved, everyone who had voting

529
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 2: power at the thing, they would all vote on the verdict,

530
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 2: and it wasn't like innocent or guilty, but instead, okay,

531
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:43,800
Speaker 2: what do we do with this situation?

532
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: Gotcha?

533
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 2: Because it wasn't a punitive legal system, it was a

534
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: I can't really say it was like a restorative Actually

535
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: probably would have identified as more of a restorative justice system.

536
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to claim it's perfect. I get you,

537
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: but we literally can watch pative trials come in hundreds

538
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: of years later. The punishment was usually a fine of

539
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: some sort, which is best as I can understands. You

540
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 2: then swear an oath to make the victim hole again

541
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 2: or their family hole again if you killed someone or whatever. Right,

542
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: and this oath that you've sworn. Both sides of your parents'

543
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 2: family is also on the hook for it. So you

544
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 2: do something bad, you get fined a ton of money.

545
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 2: Not only are you on the hook for it, but

546
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 2: so are like all your aunts and uncles and your parents,

547
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 2: and so they're all mad as shit at you. And

548
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 2: so that's kind of part of how it handles making

549
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: people be better, is you don't want to drag your

550
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: entire family into this. Yeah, such oaths were not taken lightly.

551
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 2: At the beginning of this Everyone's a Pagan. By the

552
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: end of this, everyone's a Christian. Everyone involved takes oaths

553
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 2: very seriously. To quote the historian hr Loin quote, a

554
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 2: freeman in one of our early territorial kingdoms still bore

555
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: the characteristics of a free member of a tribe. He

556
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 2: was oath worthy and weapon worthy, a person of repute,

557
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: possessed of a free kindred, and capable of playing a

558
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 2: full part in the army in the courts. Such a

559
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 2: part involved much more active self help than would have

560
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: been considered proper or seemly in a later age. He

561
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 2: fulfilled his duties without an elaborate hierarchy or officialdom to

562
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: sustain him and they actually started with the folk moots

563
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: and then developed the Witten moot, the bigger one. Well

564
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 2: actually I don't know if it's like physically bigger, but

565
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: the bigger region one. And this is the fucking origin

566
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 2: of the idea of parliament for England, and therefore everywhere

567
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 2: that England colonized and sent all of its good and

568
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: bad ideas to people. Have it backwards. There wasn't autocracy,

569
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 2: and then slowly people added layers of democracy. It was

570
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: that they added layers of hierarchy to their democracy in

571
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 2: an effort to make larger scale decisions, probably for good reasons,

572
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: but power corrupts and sla The kings centralize their authority,

573
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: usually through the need to raise and maintain militaries. However,

574
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 2: the power that has corrupted us is the power that

575
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 2: could be available to you through purchasing the goods and

576
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: services that support this show. Because that's how we all

577
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: got where we are today, was doing whatever the next

578
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 2: ad tells us to do. Hi, Margaret Kiljoy, here boy.

579
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 2: The world sure is a mess right now?

580
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: Huh?

581
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: Seems like every day there are more and more reasons

582
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: to get out into the streets and protest. That's why

583
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: when I get arrested, there's only one strategy. I trust,

584
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: I shut the fuck up. I say, I would like

585
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: to remain silent, I would like to talk to my lawyer,

586
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 2: and then I shut the fuck up. In the United

587
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: States of America, it's constitutionally protected and recommended by the

588
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 2: National Lawyers Guild. That's shut thch f u c k up.

589
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 2: Once again, that sah thche fuc k up. Because you

590
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: can't talk yourself out of custody, but you can talk

591
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 2: yourself into a conviction.

592
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 3: Providing identification to law enforcement required in some states and

593
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 3: situations giving them an address expedient in most circumstances. Never

594
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: discuss the events leading to arrest with anyone except your lawyer, doctor,

595
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: or therapist. Posting pictures of protests and actions on social

596
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: media may lead to complications. If you have already talked

597
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,640
Speaker 3: to cops or experienced confusion about talking to cops, call

598
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: your attorney immediately, as these may be signs of more

599
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 3: serious legal problems. The concept of not talking to cops

600
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: does not provide legal advice, and the foregoing statements are

601
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: for informational purposes only. If you have specific legal questions,

602
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,960
Speaker 3: consult an attorney.

603
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 2: And we're back. Slowly, the system of democracy started getting

604
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 2: corupted by hierarchy and autocracy. After a while, the Folkmot

605
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 2: became the Hundred, which is a very hard term to google.

606
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: I'll have you know. Usually what I do is I

607
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 2: read about things in books whenever possible. But then I

608
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 2: like books have like just to tell you how the

609
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 2: sausage is made of the historical research I do for

610
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 2: the show, Dear Listener, the books will have the more

611
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: in depth information and often the like more complicated takes,

612
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: but because they're just literally older, like because I can't

613
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: read a book that was written yesterday, I can. Yeah, no,

614
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: I know it is because you're perfect, which is honestly

615
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 2: impressive that you're able to do that.

616
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

617
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 2: So then I'm like searching more information about this. So

618
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: I'm like reading about how the Folkmot became the hundred,

619
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 2: and you know this piece I'm reading Anglo Saxon Democracy

620
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: by Tony Dyer. And then I'm like, all right, I

621
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 2: need to know more about that transition because I have

622
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: this one perspective and I try and compare with multiple perspectives,

623
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,200
Speaker 2: and I wasn't able to find as much about that

624
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 2: transition just partly because an organization called the Hundred it's

625
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: fucking hard to google. I'm like, but why isn't there

626
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 2: more readily available information about this thing that happened in

627
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: one part of England and seven hundreds hyper fixations.

628
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so.

629
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: That's what people don't understand about a history podcast is

630
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 2: that it only if your brain is set up to

631
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: hyper fixate on a new thing every week. So anyway,

632
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 2: the folk Moot became the Hundred, which is similar to

633
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: the Folk Moot. The peasants were still in charge, but

634
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,720
Speaker 2: there's a royal official there running the whole thing, and

635
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: he's not making the decisions, but he's kind of like

636
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: the facilitator. And that slowly it's actually developed into the

637
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,600
Speaker 2: shire system, which is the county system, which is why

638
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 2: everything is named sure, you know, like Hampshire whatever. I

639
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: don't know the names of the counties in England. With

640
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 2: the rise of the hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church,

641
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: shit started getting more formalized and more hierarchy was everywhere,

642
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: and I don't know how to pronounce hierarchy. I apparently

643
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 2: the king went from the person that all the wise

644
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: people agree should probably be in charge of keeping the

645
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 2: peace to kings are chosen by God to make Pagans

646
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 2: into Christians. And this is where the mandate of heaven

647
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: comes in. And the job isn't Yeah, different fucking mandates.

648
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: People don't talk about mandates enough. Like the idea of

649
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 2: like being like we elected politician to do this thing

650
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 2: on our behalf, you know, it is not we don't

651
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 2: elect fucking kings. Well they did, but that also wasn't great,

652
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 2: right we elect saying like, hey, we think you'll help

653
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 2: to get universal health care. Please go do that, you know.

654
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and try out you can and like do a

655
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: job and talk to people and ask where they're at

656
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:27,719
Speaker 1: and like the house. You know, as the US gets

657
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger, it's more difficult to do that totally.

658
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: But like, if you're asking for this job, you have to,

659
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: like you have to act. I've been wondering. I'm like,

660
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: how do people do this for decades and decades? And

661
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: I'm like, the thing that's becoming very clear to me is, oh,

662
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: they just don't do a good job, like even if

663
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: they started for the right reasons. Like, this is tiring

664
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: and we're two months in and it's very fun and

665
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: I've met so many cool people, and it's like one

666
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 1: of the most fulfilling things I've ever done. But like,

667
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: first off, you know, the country, the constitution are you know,

668
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: legal systems should be dynamic and fluid, just like the world.

669
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: But also like doing this for a really long time,

670
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 1: like a really long time and doing it right that

671
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: has to be like emotionally exhausting, because like empathy is

672
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: a muscle that you flex and when you're representing like

673
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 1: five hundred and seven hundred thousand people, yeah, you got

674
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:17,800
Speaker 1: to flex it a lot.

675
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it makes sense because it's like you know,

676
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: in a smaller scale thing, it's much easier to have

677
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,480
Speaker 2: a direct mandate a like if I am part of

678
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:29,040
Speaker 2: a group that sends someone to a spokes council meeting,

679
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,920
Speaker 2: we're like, all right, you are there to represent us,

680
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 2: and this is our position and that is the position

681
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: you will take there. But you're coming from a position

682
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: where like you don't have a consensus mandate. You don't

683
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: have everyone that you're you know representing, all agreeing on

684
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 2: the same thing. It's messy and it's worth using every

685
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 2: tool and toolbox to try and make the world a

686
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 2: better place. And so so kings mandate to heaven and

687
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: the kings start meeting out more and metting out, I

688
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,800
Speaker 2: don't know, giving more shit to certain people. And they're like, oh,

689
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 2: you can collect taxes in the following area and own

690
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 2: the following chunk of everything, like the commons. It's not

691
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: the commons now. You can keep it as the Commons

692
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: if you want, but it's your shit, right folk land.

693
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: The commons started to become bookland, private land. It basically

694
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 2: made lots of little kings, people who could go and

695
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: take shit from the peasants and tell them what to do.

696
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 2: This is the rise of the nobility, which was the

697
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: king taking a direct note out of the Catholic Church's book.

698
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: This land allocation wasn't under control of local councils. So

699
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 2: the enclosure of the commons, which later led to capitalism,

700
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 2: was the death of this period of democracy. And to

701
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: me that's an important point because most tellings of the

702
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 2: story of democracy in Western Europe talk about it starting

703
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: with the rich people. And I want to say capitalism

704
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 2: was the death of democracy or the thing later built

705
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 2: to capitalism. And for anyone who's listening, when I say capitalism,

706
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 2: I don't mean the idea of buying and selling everything.

707
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: We don't live in a binary world where you either

708
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,760
Speaker 2: of the fucking USSR or the USA. Capitalism whatever, capitalism

709
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: is a specific economic system, and it can be questioned.

710
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:20,439
Speaker 2: The legal system becomes much more strictly formalized. Common law

711
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 2: basically means law that's built up by precedent rather than

712
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: the legislation. Legislation starts becoming more common and instead of

713
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 2: compensating victims, criminal justice moved to become more punitive. Suddenly

714
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 2: way more shit had the death penalty. I did while like,

715
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: I was like reading this glowing thing about Anglo Saxon democracy,

716
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,319
Speaker 2: and I was like, was this the downside here? And

717
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: so I read a lot more about slavery. And one

718
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 2: of the things that could happen is if you owe

719
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 2: someone a lot of money, you basically saw yourself and

720
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: the like ostensibly non punitive system led to sometimes the

721
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 2: punitive thing of people being owned by people. And yeah,

722
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: all the people who have been given all this fucking

723
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 2: land and the right to tax people, the nobles in

724
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 2: the church got wealthy as shit. The next nail in

725
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 2: the folk coffin was the Viking invasions of the nine hundreds,

726
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 2: which led to a massive restructuring of England to support

727
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 2: the military to defend against the raiders. To quote Tony

728
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 2: Dyer again quote, the peasant's status began to change from

729
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: that of a free farmer to that of a subject

730
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: tenant with significant ongoing obligations of rent and service to

731
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: his lord. And then the final nail didn't come from

732
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: within England, though England was clearly moving in a more

733
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,880
Speaker 2: autocratic direction with its monarchy. The final nail was the

734
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 2: Norman conquest of ten sixty six. Normandy is part of

735
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 2: the northwest of France and in the tenth century some

736
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 2: Vikings settled there and then christianized, and then in ten

737
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 2: sixty six a fuck ton of them invaded England, the Normans,

738
00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: and they were successful and brutal, and they built pasty.

739
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: Can you imagine a race named Norman. We have Frank,

740
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: we have Norman, Like, what's next the Garys.

741
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: I know? And then the Garys are just murdering everyone

742
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,879
Speaker 2: you've ever met. Yeah, not a good point that he's

743
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: like the most standard ass boring names.

744
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're like this is the Steves. Yeah, oh no,

745
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: the Ryans are coming.

746
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: From All of their hair is surprisingly well kempt Brittonic

747
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 2: they're defeated by the non binary army of the Brittonics.

748
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 2: And yeah, so suddenly castles go from and again this

749
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 2: is an oversimplification, but castles go from being there to

750
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 2: like protect the population from invasion to subjugating the population

751
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 2: and being like, now where the the autocrats running around

752
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 2: in our little dystopia we're building, and we know that

753
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,880
Speaker 2: this case they actually did successfully not change all of ethnicity,

754
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 2: but like conquer the economy. There's a book called the

755
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: Domesday Book, and it's an eleventh century record book of

756
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 2: like taxes and shit. It's just like who owns what,

757
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 2: and essentially everyone with money was Norman not English, like

758
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 2: basically like I think ninety percent of landed people were

759
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 2: the Norman invaders. They close a lot of the commons,

760
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 2: they enforced the law brutally, and it's Norman rule that

761
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 2: becomes the baseline authoritarianism that people, largely rich people, begin

762
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 2: to rebel against. And so the rich didn't event democracy,

763
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: they claimed it from the peasantry. That's my thesis, and

764
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,760
Speaker 2: that when people one writes it wasn't for the first time,

765
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 2: it was drawing on something older, something ancient. So when

766
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 2: we demand habeas corpus. When we demand that we have

767
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: a fair system of justice and democracy, we are drawing

768
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 2: on something that has existed all over the fucking world

769
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: that literally predates civilization. And I promise I'll tell you

770
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: about this guy, Tony Dyer. Oh yeah, I haven't had

771
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:04,360
Speaker 2: any named like cool people this whole fucking episode the historian.

772
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: I was like, what's this guy up to now? And

773
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 2: so I googled them, and there's a fair number of

774
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 2: people named Tony Dyer. But his pamphlet was put out

775
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 2: by the Bristol Radical Pamphleteers or something like that, And

776
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: so I was searching Tony Dyer Bristol and I found

777
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,320
Speaker 2: that he is a Green Party politician who is currently

778
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 2: in charge of the city of Bristol, a city of

779
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 2: half a million people. He's not the mayor because the

780
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 2: city got rid of the position of mayor. He is

781
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 2: the leader of the city council. Now that there is

782
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,799
Speaker 2: no mayor, the entire city council makes decisions instead.

783
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,240
Speaker 1: That's so cool, I know, I know, that's so cool.

784
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 1: And this is like today, like right now. Yeah.

785
00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. In twenty twenty four, he became the fucking all

786
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: of the articles about this were from last year, Like

787
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 2: that's awesome, And in an interview he said about this system,

788
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: decisions should be reached by consensus, collaboration, and compromise in

789
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 2: a public setting.

790
00:41:58,640 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: That's how I run cool Zone.

791
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, like and so like I had this moment where

792
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: I was like, I wonder if this is the same guy,

793
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 2: and I'm like, no, this is obviously the same man,

794
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 2: because it is what he wrote about as a historian.

795
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 2: He wrote about local democracy and making it be as

796
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: public as possible and as participatory as possible and like

797
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 2: a galitarian and shit. Yeah, and I'm sure it is

798
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: not perfect, but I like it didn't find the imperfect yet. Yeah,

799
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: if you're listening in Bristol, you might have completely different information.

800
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,440
Speaker 2: But the Green led city council there has been focusing

801
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: on removing car infrastructure, improving walking and cycling infrastructure. Some

802
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 2: of the interview questions I found with him people being

803
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 2: like why do you hate cars? I like my car,

804
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,440
Speaker 2: you know, and his answers are like, well, actually, you know,

805
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 2: we save lives this way and it's better and whatever,

806
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 2: and like hey, you're.

807
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 1: Being on a train. You don't have to do anything.

808
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: You can read.

809
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 2: You just fun read a book. You can be listening

810
00:42:57,760 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: to this right here. Well, you guess you can listen

811
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 2: while driving, but it's less nice.

812
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: You can listen and then stare at the thing going

813
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 1: like the little thing that scrubs, which is of how

814
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: everyone listens to a podcasts. They just stare at the

815
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: screen and they use it continues.

816
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 2: But even more than enacting like green and progressive legislation

817
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 2: like removing car infrastructure, improving walking and psychling infrastructure, which rules.

818
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,040
Speaker 2: I am most impressed not by when progressives and leftist

819
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: politicians enact leftist policies, but when they change the structure

820
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 2: of government to become more egalitarian.

821
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and sick.

822
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone who extensively studied the history of the region

823
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,719
Speaker 2: and saw its radical democratic roots is working to put

824
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 2: them into practice. And so the surprise cool person of

825
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: today is the non mayor of a major city who

826
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: wrote a pamphlet that I read about ten years ago

827
00:43:56,160 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 2: that fundamentally changed my understanding of a lot of history. Yeah, sick, Yeah,

828
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 2: that's what I got. That's Margaret's theory of the development

829
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: of English common law. That it's like this is not

830
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,719
Speaker 2: every all over the world. There's people who have democratic

831
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: traditions that they're drawing on right, and some of them

832
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 2: are similar to this and some of them aren't. But

833
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 2: unfortunately England then went on to you know, famously draw

834
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,479
Speaker 2: random lines across the map that caused a huge chunk

835
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 2: of all the conflicts that are happening today.

836
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: I've never heard of.

837
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 2: This is a good I don't know if it's a meme,

838
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,319
Speaker 2: if it's a video. I'm old there's a good thing.

839
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: That's like the like the English watching all of the

840
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: world be destroyed by lines they draw on the map

841
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 2: one hundred years ago, and it's a bunch of people

842
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:47,080
Speaker 2: in pith helmets like skanking in the desert. It's very good, amazing.

843
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know any thoughts. How are you feeling?

844
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I feel good. I think democracy is cool.

845
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't know about all this. Like when

846
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: you think about you know, English democracy, you think the

847
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,919
Speaker 1: Karta and like this is really interesting. And also the

848
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: step of a like restorative versus punitive justice and like oaths.

849
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: It's just it's really fascinating to see how people handle things,

850
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:16,240
Speaker 1: and especially in a system where you're not constantly living

851
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: under fear of having your life ruined by one thing

852
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: or another, whether that's Stephen Miller coming to arrest you

853
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: for having darker skin, or you know, crushing debt or

854
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: whatever else it may be. It's just really interesting to

855
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: see how different communities can work together and create these systems.

856
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 1: And I seriously had no idea about any of those.

857
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 2: They call it the fucking Dark Ages. They don't talk

858
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 2: about it, you know, And yeah, and part of it

859
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,240
Speaker 2: is because some of it speculative, right, like this is like, yeah,

860
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: but historians are I'm not a historian. Historians are good

861
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: at their jobs and it is a science, and they

862
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 2: like try to figure out, like we think this is

863
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 2: what happened, you know. Yeah, well you got anything you

864
00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: want to plug if you've been up to anything, like

865
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 2: I think you're kind of low key and off the radar.

866
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 2: I haven't seen anyone attacking wildly on the internet randomly

867
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 2: at all times.

868
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, not really doing anything lately, just kidding. I'm running

869
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: for Congress, running for Congress in the ninth District of Illinois.

870
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about what I'm about,

871
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,000
Speaker 1: you can go to Catfreillinois dot com. That's Kat with

872
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: the K. Can you tell that I have said this

873
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 1: little spiel quite a few times.

874
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, huh, yeah, no, that's fair.

875
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: Today, we just took our as we're recording this or

876
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 1: I guess in two days, because we need to make

877
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: sure that the illusion of time is there. A few

878
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: days later, Yeah, we made our discords over republic and

879
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: so you can join that in the volunteer section of

880
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 1: our website because we need help from all people, local, remote,

881
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 1: We really want to try to do this progressive grassroots

882
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:44,920
Speaker 1: approach that's not only like not taking corporate money, but

883
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: we're trying to spend our money in ways to improve

884
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: as many lives as we can along the way. So

885
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: if you've got a few bucks to spare, consider chipping

886
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,560
Speaker 1: in at Catfreillinois dot com. And if you have some

887
00:46:55,719 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: skills or I've thought, why don't politicians do this? Like

888
00:46:58,440 --> 00:46:59,959
Speaker 1: we want to get creative, we want to get weird.

889
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 1: So come volunteer, hang out on the discord and as always,

890
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 1: listened to this podcast.

891
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: All right, yeah, what else do I want to plug?

892
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 2: I don't know, take care of each other, don't let

893
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 2: them suspend habeas corpus. And also I can be somewhat

894
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: sectarian as every leftist or whatever it can be, but

895
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: it's not. We got to be as careful about as possible.

896
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: We have to de escalate all conflict that isn't with

897
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: the enemy. What I try to do is be like,

898
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: is this person trying to enact systems that kill me

899
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 2: and or everyone that I care about and or other

900
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: people that I've never met that still shouldn't get murdered.

901
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 2: And if the answer is no, they're probably not my enemy,

902
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 2: and I probably want I'm in conflict with them, rather

903
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: than trying to find all the ways that they're wrong,

904
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 2: try to find common ground.

905
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: Unless their boyfriend is the CEO of The Onion. Oh yeah, no, okay,

906
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: spark that person. Could you imagine someone running a satire

907
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: website is dating someone that's just a moral as far

908
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: as I can you imagine, especially if they've been dating

909
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:00,879
Speaker 1: for years? Yeah, what the fuck?

910
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely? I will say though, like it's funny because

911
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 2: in my mind, as soon as someone's like, oh, what's

912
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: the journalistic integrity of the Onion supporting you, I'm like, well,

913
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: it's not journalism. It is a fucking comedy website.

914
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 1: It's America's finest news source. Let's be clear here.

915
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are a lot of Times when the onion

916
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 2: is more correct than the New York Times, Like, there's

917
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 2: some stuff that I've like. I remember twenty some years

918
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: ago when Schwarzenegger was elected in California, the onion headline

919
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 2: was a strong man elected leader of world's fifth largest

920
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: economy or whatever. You're just like, yeah, no, that's that's

921
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 2: just the news that happened.

922
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: That's just the news that happened.

923
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 2: So we live in a clown world. So maybe the

924
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:41,359
Speaker 2: clown news is the real news. I don't know.

925
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 1: Oh my God, to put the clown creators in Congress.

926
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, anyway, we'll see you all next week. Unless we

927
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 2: have no habeas corpus.

928
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: I won't see you next week, but I like seeing

929
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 1: you this week, So thank you for having me on.

930
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was nice to see you all right, Hi everyone. Bye.

931
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

932
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media.

933
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:07,280
Speaker 1: For more podcasts on cool Zone Media, visit our website

934
00:49:07,400 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: Goolezonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

935
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.