WEBVTT - A Shutdown Looms as Markets Move Forward 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:06.720 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:16.320 This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekdays 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:19.560 at seven am Eastern on Apple car Player, Android Auto 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:23.080 with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever you 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:26.120 get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:27.520 Katie Kaminski joins us. 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:32.680 She's a chief research strategist Alpha Simplex got way way 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.080 too many degrees from MIT to even go over. So 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:39.240 you do all this electrical engineering stuff, operations research. 0:00:39.240 --> 0:00:39.760 What do you do? 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:41.879 You go to Wall Street? 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:42.880 I don't figure it out. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:44.720 But anyway, Katie, thank you so much for joining us. 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:46.879 We always appreciate talking to you. You really give us some 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:51.000 really great insight. Here we heard from the Federal Reserve here. 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:54.920 How are you guys approaching twenty twenty five? 0:00:56.400 --> 0:00:58.800 Well, this is a good question because I feel like 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.320 this week sent changed quite a bit, but it hasn't 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:06.440 changed the long term signals that we see. We still 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.880 see positive signals for equity markets, so there's still sort 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.760 of positive momentum there, especially in the US versus other regions. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.640 We've seen short positioning in yields, which is consistent with 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.640 the Fed's positioning this week as well that you know, 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.480 we might be higher for longer for some point, and 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.880 we've also seen some downward pressure to mixed signals in commodities. 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.640 But I think the biggest thing that shocked me this 0:01:30.720 --> 0:01:33.400 month is just the US dollar. It's the only thing 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.600 that has really strongly trended despite some of the recent turbulence. 0:01:38.400 --> 0:01:40.560 So let's unpack that a little bit. 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.959 It feels like it's still a US exceptionalism theme, and 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:44.480 you you kind of say that versus you know, the 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.039 rest of the world, for example. But Mary Daily, the 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.280 San Francisco FED president, just spoke on our errand said 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.200 that she is not comfortable with the rate of inflation 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:54.360 at two and a half percent. That really does imply that, 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:56.840 no joke, if inflation doesn't come down, the Fed's going. 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:59.320 To cut us full stop. Does that change the US 0:01:59.400 --> 0:02:02.760 exceptionalism feel? It definitely could. 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:04.680 And you know, when people have asked me, what are 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.200 the biggest things I'm worried about this here? If you 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.720 look at how markets are trading right now, they're trading 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.520 with positive correlation between stocks and bonds, and that generally 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:17.480 happens when inflation is sort of a key factor and 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.400 sort of the Fed's path, and so for me, the 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:24.880 volatility and the potential for sticky inflation or an uptick 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.840 in inflation at some point in the next year, especially 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.919 with current deficit levels, becomes that sort of left hail 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.600 concern that a lot of people are worried about. And 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.239 so I think that there's that issue. And you've seen 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:40.280 that as well in the steepening of the yield curve. 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:42.680 You saw that this week that people are starting to 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:46.320 price in long term inflation expectations in long term rates. 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.360 So I think higher rates could be a concern and 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.000 it could dampen the US exceptional as. 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.360 Narrative, Katie, I know you guys at off of Simplex. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.320 You guys do everything, you trade everything, you look at everything. 0:02:58.720 --> 0:03:03.280 How about commodities here your commodities play for twenty twenty five. 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:06.920 Well, this is I mean, commodities have been difficult because 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.440 what you've seen this month is that weaker economic data 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:12.799 has put downward pressure on commodities. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:14.000 So you've definitely seen. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:17.880 Some negative signals, particularly post selection and even this month, 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.919 but we also have seen some pockets of interesting supplied 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:26.280 demand opportunities. So take a look at coffee, which has 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:30.120 been you know, a really big mover things like cocoa, 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:34.480 other sort of more sort of baseline commodities but much 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:38.680 more esoteric that have provided interesting opportunities so far. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:40.440 Oil is going to be a tricky one. 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.800 It's been tricky this year, and energy is going to 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.120 be in the debate. So I think that's something to 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.080 watch and consider for opportunities. 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:50.760 But also in the debate, though, if you add to that, 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.200 are the tariff discussions, and we saw in the last 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.120 Trump administration what that did to corn and soybeans and 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.560 wheat in terms of the trade routes in Brazil and 0:03:58.680 --> 0:04:01.160 China and the US in terms of exporting and importing. 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:04.720 Are you expecting that to occur this time round? 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:06.560 Definitely? 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:09.440 And you know, in the last Trump presidency we saw 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:13.000 a lot of volatility around things like metals particularly, and 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.560 we studied this and if you take a look at 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:20.960 sort of tariff threats versus expectations, they can be very different. 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:22.800 And so I think what's going to be tricky for 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:27.680 markets is how much of those discussions actually come to fruition. 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:30.599 And I think that's going to take time for the 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.520 markets to understand sort of what of these tariffs are. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:34.320 Actually going to happen. 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:36.440 And how much of that is going to bake into 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.400 prices over long term and create opportunities for positioning and 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.640 things like copper oil, et cetera over the next year. 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.520 So I'm looking at the yield curve, Katie. I think 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:49.919 I've got a positive yield curve. I'm not a bond person, 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:53.280 but I see a positive, stapening yield curve here, none 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.040 of this inverted stuff. 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:56.160 What does that tell you? 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:01.040 So usually for me, when I'm thinking about the yield curve, 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:05.799 I'm thinking about people pricing in long term expectations for inflation. 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.919 And if you think about that, what that means is 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.120 that we might have finally stabilized. We've been looking for 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.080 that steeper yield curve for over a year the beginning 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.640 of twenty twenty four. That was the big call, like, oh, 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:20.000 steeper yield curve now that we're done with the cycle. 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.200 And so for me, it really represents people trying to 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.240 assess what is the equilibrium point for long term rates, 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:30.200 but also how much do I need to worry about 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.680 my long term cash flows based on inflation as well? 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.360 And so right now I think people are weighing current 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.560 deficits and concerns over inflation, and that has caused some 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:42.760 pressure on long term bonds and created this more classic 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:46.880 steeper yield curve that we learn in finance degree one 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:47.200 oh one. 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.800 You know, you know, I wonder if the dysfunction in DC, 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:54.720 particularly wrapping the debt ceiling debate into a continuing resolution 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.240 or budget is also kind of de anchoring that back end. 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.960 I mean, because I think when you add the volatility 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:07.080 to inflation, it you know, kind of increases the ranges 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:09.760 of outcomes. And so if there's a probability out there 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.359 that we will have a lot of spending and that 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:15.320 there could be a tumultuous path to that, that suggests 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.039 that there's a lot more uncertainty around long term bonds. 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:19.920 And we've definitely seen that. 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.680 Since twenty twenty two, we've seen increased volatility in bonds, 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.599 and I'd expect this year, especially as we have those 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:31.560 those discussions, that the long term volatility for long term 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:33.320 bonds will stay elevated. 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:35.320 All right, Katie, thank you so much for joining us. 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:38.280 We always appreciate getting some of your time. Katiekiminski, Chief 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.839 Research strategists at Alpha Simplex. 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:50.039 You're listening to the Bloomberg surveillance podcast. Catch US live 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:53.479 weekday afternoons from seven to ten am. Easter Listen on 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.760 Apple car Play and Android Auto with a Bloomberg Business app, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.599 or watch US live on YouTube. 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:02.279 Next guest here, he began his career as a stockbroker. 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:04.880 Listen to this firm, EF Hutton and Company. If you 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.440 wanted to sling stock back in the day, you went 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:11.920 to EF Hutton and Company, then Bash and Company, then 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:16.280 Prudential Bash. Some of the best research analysts for generations 0:07:16.400 --> 0:07:18.600 came out of Bash in Company. Then he goes American 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:22.000 Stock Exchanged Chicago Board of Options is Exchange. Oh yeah, 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:24.600 he did some duty in the US Navy. Our next guest, 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:27.840 George Ball, has seen it all. He's the chairman now 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:30.920 of Sanders Mars. George, thank you so much for joining us. 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.960 Appreciate chatting with you. It's been a pretty good year 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:36.760 for twenty twenty four. I mean yes and p five 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.600 hundred twenty three percent. George, A good year for you 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.000 and your clients. What are you telling your clients about 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:44.200 next year? 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:50.880 The interesting part about the stock markets is that most 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.800 of the so called experts, which I pretend to be 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:59.520 in them not spend the majority of our time talking 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:04.600 about what was and explaining it rather than taking the 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:10.640 risk of talking about what is going to be. Twenty 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:15.600 twenty four was a remarkable year, even with the declines 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.840 in the last few days in terms of equity returns, 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.760 and therefore the question is what is going to happen 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.000 and what's going to cause it next year. 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:31.160 Two important points. 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.800 One is when the Fed came out with its comparative 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:40.160 late Hawker's stance the other day, the market clearly interpreted 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:41.079 it negatively. 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:43.480 The Fed's not going to cut rates that much. 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.400 We look at Fed funds rate as a barometer for 0:08:47.480 --> 0:08:53.360 the market. Let's sell that's upside down. The Fed is 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:56.719 taking its more cautious stance in terms of future rate 0:08:56.760 --> 0:09:02.000 cuts because of a belief that the underlying economy is 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:06.000 very strong. If the economy weren't strong, the Fed would 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:09.680 not be comfortable mitigating the number of the size of 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.160 rate cuts that are coming up. Strong economy, high earnings. 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.240 That's good for the market, all other things being equal, 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:20.560 And so you can enter at twenty twenty five thinking 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:26.440 I'd rather be participating fairly fully inequities rather than being 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.360 on the sidelines. Doesn't mean it's going to replicate twenty 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:34.839 twenty four, that's not likely to happen. Secondly, there are 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:40.880 going to be very unpredictable exogenous events. Exogenous is a 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.920 big word for saying that the Trump administration, not only 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:48.120 the president but the senior advisors to them, are going 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:53.440 to do things that are not predictable, aren't foreseen, and 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:58.439 aren't conventional, and that is going to throw monkey wrenches 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:03.959 into the marketplace in the sentiment from time to time. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:08.480 So you need to be aware that there's going to 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:15.080 be difficult moments, tumultuous moments that are hard to anticipate. 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:19.000 But in the midst of it a economy where people 0:10:19.080 --> 0:10:21.920 working hard, a lot of people working, and earnings have 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:26.240 to be pretty good. So be optimistic, but be aware 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.000 of heavy seas ahead from time to time. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:31.440 How defensive in that do you want to be? 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:40.640 George In terms of equity exposures, not particularly defensive at all. 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:49.240 The best mitigator of risk is cash and going beyond 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:55.800 cash to shorter duration fixed income securities. Therefore, I think 0:10:55.920 --> 0:11:02.719 that the smart investor, the but not a craven investor, 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.199 is going to hold more cash than normal or cash 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:11.120 like things as a mitigant against risk. But their equity 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.120 exposures will be comparatively daring. 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:16.640 The staples. 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:22.360 The defensive stocks utilities which have some AI exposure are 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.439 probably not the right place to be. You want to 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:30.040 be looking for the higher growth type of items and 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:35.319 probably continue at least something close to marketway to exposure 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:36.920 to the magnificent seven. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.080 So with your equity. 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:42.920 Holdings, be a little bit smaller in terms of the 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:50.120 percentage allocation to stocks, but be comparatively higher risk in 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:51.520 terms of which stocks you own. 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:56.080 Lisa Alex When I started on Wall Street in June sixteenth, 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:59.520 nineteen eighty six, Georgia Ball was a leader of Global 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:01.520 Wall Street than at Prudential Based Security is one of 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:02.600 the greatest firms on Wall Street. 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:03.440 George, I got to ask you. 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:07.359 He's really fan boying on you right now, Georgia in eighty. 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.319 Six years of age, Dude, can you give us a 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:11.760 sac Just give us your perspective? 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:12.880 How is Global Wall Street? 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:17.080 How's your Wall Street changed from when you were starting 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:20.000 in the business to right now, because you're still a 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.640 leader on Wall Street, House it changed to. 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:28.120 Those of you who may be actually watching this on 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.960 a string version behind me right here is a ticker tape, 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:36.440 then a ticker that ran in the crash of twenty nine. 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.400 It's original ticker. It's got tape from that day. I'm 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:39.760 not better. 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.480 Back back in the day when I began, the people 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:47.640 on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange were 0:12:47.679 --> 0:12:53.000 the rulers of finance. It's where big events took place. 0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:56.600 It's where the people were legends. They were towering figures. 0:12:56.800 --> 0:12:59.000 And today the New York Stock Exchanged floor is a 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:02.280 movie set. Uh there, Yeah, there are those stocks traded there, 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.400 but people have a lot of pancake makeup, makeup up. 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:07.880 That's a big difference. Uh. 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:13.360 Wall Street has spread to all corners of. 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.640 Our nation in the world, which is good and bad. 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.480 The bad part is the personal relationships between people, the 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:28.679 non technology driven relationships, the non AI fabricated relationships. Uh 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:33.800 created trusts and bonds that are much less strong and 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:39.360 really much less confining in terms of the standards of 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:44.480 personal behavior that existed back then. So I regret that 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.400 I think we've so we suffer some from from the 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:52.120 impersonalization of the financial world and the financial markets. 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:52.520 Yeah. 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.160 Yeah, technology lets us do things that that even. 0:13:56.000 --> 0:13:59.920 That old codure like me could not have believed back. 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:00.640 In the day. 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:02.720 George, thanks so much for joining us. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:06.040 Always appreciate getting the value of your perspective on these 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.760 markets here. George Baul, He's the chairman of Sanders Mars. 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:11.880 He has been on Wall Street. I can't even don't 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.640 even know when he started, but way back in the day. 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.440 But again, some of the greatest firms in the history 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.840 of Wall Street. George has Let's we appreciate getting his 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.440 perspective here on these markets. 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:27.040 This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday 0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.320 starting at seven am Eastern on applecar Play and Android 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.240 Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.440 live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.560 Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty Bitcoin. 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.720 I'm calling out for Tom Kean because he is obviously 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.520 a huge fan of of the cryptocurrencies. It was one 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.400 hundred and seven thousand, just like a cup of coffee goes. 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.720 Tom Kean would say, here we are at ninety two thousand. 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:54.360 To me, I view this, I'm just my personal view. 0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:58.680 I viewed as a commodity. Okay, gold, it's just supplying 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.280 dement That's what to me. 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:02.200 That's how I view it, so that a safe haven call. 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.400 Then I we don't know. I don't know. It's oil, 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:06.440 it's gold, I don't know. 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.760 But our next guest is a professional on this stuff, 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:13.880 Ayesha KEI. She's a COO of mnn C group. I'm 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.000 not sure what they do, but that sounds good. Can 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:20.600 you talk to us about how we should think about 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:22.240 crypto in general? 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:23.440 How do you think about it? 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:24.720 How do I think about it? 0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.320 I mean I I put it on a pedestal because 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.200 we are a hedge fund that trades it. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.080 So that's what we do. We make liquid markets for it. 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.400 The second time I was on this show, I called. 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.560 Bitcoin a one hundred thousand yeah, and Tom laughed at 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.360 like that go ahead, yeah yeah. Tom left at me, 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:47.040 he's you're a professor, Like should you be serious? And 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:50.360 I said, I'm very serious because we see it at 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.680 that value, and this is before even the election, right 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:58.080 before the election results. Yes, we view it as a commodity. 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.600 It is setting, you know, a ground work for digital assets. 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:05.760 And I think that you know, that's where the economies, 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.800 that's where the technology is hitted. Anyways, right, like more faster, 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:14.040 you know, processes to exchange money, more faster processes for 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:19.080 cross border payments, and the technology behind bitcoin sets that 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:21.480 and but there's like a lot. 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:22.880 Of groundwork being done. 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.680 The only reason we've seen that kind of price action 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:30.880 just recently is because the administration, the upcoming administration is 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:31.880 pro crypto. 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.760 So that's why the market markets rallied. 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.520 So MNNC Group is a quantitative digital asset investment firm, 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.680 So it's not just bitcoin, it's with digital assets, which 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.320 is a huge step in technological advancements. 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:44.760 I get that. 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:48.360 So how do you look at an asset that's crypto related? 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.200 And then you got like fart coin, you know what 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.680 I mean? Like, how do I love it? I love 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:54.600 my knowledge on it. 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:59.040 I love it fantastic. So fart coin is a weave coin, 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:00.680 Howard Stern. 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.400 No, No, this Bloomer Surveillance Radio seven Friday, and. 0:17:05.400 --> 0:17:07.840 I have to go and teach my kids at nay 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:08.520 you after this. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:10.680 So I imagine if like any one of them ended 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:13.720 up catch like you know, catching this on TV. But 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:20.240 meme coin, right, even though these are just useless tokens 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:22.960 that are being traded in the liquid markets. In my 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:25.679 very personal opinion, and I talk about this like in 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:26.400 my class. 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.960 Look guys, these tokens are literally putting blockchains to work. Right. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.679 So if this is if this token is based on 0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:37.200 Solana or this token is based on coin basis base, 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.600 that is just making sure that the blockchain actually works 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:41.480 for that kind. 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:45.200 Of fast buy and sell transaction. That's the youth. I mean, 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.440 that's just like touch up. 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.520 Kind of testing the technology if it works or not. 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:55.320 But yes, does part coin has an underlying value? Absolutely? 0:17:55.440 --> 0:18:00.359 Now does it make sense to exist, Absolutely no, But 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:05.160 it is actually just showing everyone that, look, we can 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:08.280 create assets on a very decentralized market. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:14.760 You're also Adjunct Professor of Blockchain and Distributed Ledger Tech 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:16.000 at NYU. 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.720 Somebody actually created that title. Uh, yes, that is awesome. 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:23.440 I was thinking the same thing. I was like, wow, okay, I. 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:25.880 Mean and again it has to be at n YU 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.399 in my sense because they kind of cover everything that's 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:32.679 cutting edge there. In my opinion, What do you think 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:36.360 about this new administration? What does it mean for crypto 0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:39.040 in general? Because my thought is I'm not sure this 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:41.359 president would know a cryptocurrency if he tripped over it. 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:44.520 But that's probably true for everybody out there in the world. 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:47.080 There's a select few that really understand what's going on 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.280 out there. But what do you think this administration means 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:50.720 for cryptotechnology? 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.160 Maybe from a regulatory. 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:55.960 Perspective or from regulatory perspective, yes, right, like change of administration, 0:18:56.080 --> 0:19:00.199 change of SEC, change of CFTC, just more more or 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.639 understanding you know how digital currency works. That's the number 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.760 one fact. Even Department of Treasury is pro crypto. And 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.080 when we say pro crypto, it's just that they understand 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.800 what digital assets are, right. And then you know, the 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.159 same same thing with the upcoming president. He may not know, 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.199 but his sons do, right. And then every now and 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:22.360 then we hear something, Oh, Baron taught me. 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.440 This, or Eric, or Eric taught me that. 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:27.080 And we've seen Eric, you know, at a couple of 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.920 you know, blockchain conferences. Okay, So I think like that's 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:33.919 where the word I guess is coming from. 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:39.640 Okay, distinguished for viewers like myself, the distinction that we 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:43.760 make between a digital token and then blockchain, and then 0:19:43.800 --> 0:19:46.959 what the importance is to make sure that blockchain works. 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.080 Fart Coin is testing that right, right, But what does 0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:51.480 that mean? 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.760 That basically means that you can use a blockchain, which 0:19:55.800 --> 0:20:00.040 is a decentralized ledger where you and I transact and 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:04.639 then you know, Paul gets to see it, right, And 0:20:05.040 --> 0:20:07.880 that's that's to make sure that the blockchain is working, 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:09.640 the technology is working. 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:13.440 And we need the technology because why. 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.000 Because it's open source. 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:19.000 Everyone can see the two people transacting and everyone can 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:22.800 see you know, who's sending who, and then faster. The 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:26.119 reason it's it's faster. It's like super quick, like a 0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:30.800 couple of seconds for instant settlement and finalization of that settlement. 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:33.880 Right like I cannot ask you for your money back once. 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:36.360 I've sent that to you. He would like to see that. 0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:40.479 And that's what the open source technology, the open source 0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:42.160 distributed ledgers. 0:20:41.920 --> 0:20:48.000 Shows ETFs have been a major story for crypto and 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:49.200 bitcoin in particular. 0:20:49.600 --> 0:20:51.320 What does it mean to you? How do you guys 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.080 use bitcoin ETFs? 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:55.960 We don't, don't, We don't. 0:20:56.119 --> 0:21:00.000 It's it's mainly an institutional product for investors who were 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:03.720 like access to bitcoin, but don't want to actually touch 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:08.720 the bitcoin or you know, ethereum. It's an institutional product 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:09.760 for them. 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.240 So how do you guys, do you trade in straight? 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.560 We trade straight bitcoin and straight ethereum and straight other coins. 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:20.280 Who's been buying the bitcoin is a micro strategy. 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:21.680 Microstoftic micro Strategy. 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:23.239 Yeah, what's up with that? 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:25.920 I mean, he went from his twenty five million dollars 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:27.840 to I think like twenty. 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:28.840 Five billion at this point. 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:31.840 He just he just kept buying bitcoin and bitcoin and bitcoin, 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:34.280 and he's about to get listed on NASTAC I think 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.640 December twenty first, and his largest. 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:38.520 Holding is bitcoin. 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.320 He's one of the largest holder, if not the largest 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:42.240 holder of bitcoin. 0:21:42.359 --> 0:21:43.000 Is that a good thing? 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:46.520 It's a very interesting thing, absolutely right. 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:47.880 It is a thing. I guess it is a thing, 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:48.480 right thing. 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:51.480 Yeah, I mean, I guess though, I guess. I just 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.160 wonder if it perpetuates fraud on blockchain? 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.920