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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stump Mom Never Told You?

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Speaker 1: From House top works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristen. Kristen. This

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Speaker 1: is the podcast that's airing right before the very prominent

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Speaker 1: winter holiday Christmas. No disrespect to any other winter holidays,

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Speaker 1: because what we're about to talk about regards to any

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Speaker 1: holiday where major gift giving is involved. Yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: could even be you know, birthday or any day you'd

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Speaker 1: like to give, you know, christ And your birthday is

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Speaker 1: coming up on my birthday, yes, is two days away

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Speaker 1: from when we were recording this right now, so it's

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Speaker 1: your birthday. It's almost Christmas time, and uh, I just

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Speaker 1: want to know, you know, what did you get me

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Speaker 1: for Christmas? Let's ignore your birthday for for a while. Well, Molly, Um,

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Speaker 1: first of all, that is secret because Christmas is not

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Speaker 1: yet upon us. And if I were to tell you

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Speaker 1: what I got you, um, you know, I mean we're

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Speaker 1: recording this in um December first, not to not to

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Speaker 1: give away the podcast timeline, but it would be a

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Speaker 1: whole month that you know, what you got. I just now, no,

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Speaker 1: because I'm saving up the longer longer you can hold out. See,

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Speaker 1: I'm saving up the just the joy of being, of

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Speaker 1: giving you something, of being the giver and receiving the

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Speaker 1: intangible delight of that, just that look on your face

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Speaker 1: when you unwrap this present that I'm apparently giving you.

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Speaker 1: Um and you know, reaping the benefit of your joy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that leads us well into our our topic for the day,

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Speaker 1: because I think I kind of just answered it. I

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Speaker 1: think you did. But christ you haven't even told people

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Speaker 1: what the what the question you just answered is? I

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Speaker 1: know that was just me, um, dodging around this, dodging

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Speaker 1: around the ball because you didn't expect to find me

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Speaker 1: a Christmas present. Working with you every day is a present, Kristen. Um. No.

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Speaker 1: The question for the day is it better to give

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Speaker 1: than to receive? An age old phrase you'll often hear,

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Speaker 1: probably from your mother, Steph mother and mom never told

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Speaker 1: you and uh, you know, Kristen, in attempting to decide

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Speaker 1: step my demand for a present has has artfully gotten

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Speaker 1: into some of the issues that we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about about. You know, do we give to see that

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Speaker 1: look on someone's face. Do we give because it's expected

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Speaker 1: of us? As I have now just put the ball

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Speaker 1: in Kristen's court? Um, why why do we give it all?

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Speaker 1: Why do we like giving? And you know in the

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Speaker 1: in the days before Christmas, don't you kind of just

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Speaker 1: want to say, shove it all like and you don't

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Speaker 1: want to go them all, you don't want to do

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Speaker 1: the wrapping. And it seems like the act of gift

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Speaker 1: giving sort of goes against human nature. I mean, we're

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Speaker 1: pretty selfish creatures when it comes right down to it.

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Speaker 1: So where did this whole gift giving thing come from? Because? Um,

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Speaker 1: there was an article about the spy taried Parker Pope

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Speaker 1: from the New York Times who points out that we

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Speaker 1: have been different cultures have been giving gifts in these

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Speaker 1: kind of ceremonial ways sort of the same way we

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Speaker 1: do around the holidays and with birthdays for thousands of years,

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Speaker 1: and she traces it back to um a custom called potlatch,

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Speaker 1: which is a whole community wide gift giving celebration where

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Speaker 1: households almost compete to give away the most possessions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if you end up poor by the end of a potlatch,

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Speaker 1: then you're going to be the most respected person after

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Speaker 1: the event, because the goal is just to give until

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Speaker 1: it hurts. And they're also evolutionary theories behind why we

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Speaker 1: would have this gift giving trait. I guess it's it's

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Speaker 1: so ingrained you could almost call it a trait um

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Speaker 1: the theory that men who are the most generous might

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Speaker 1: have the most reproductive success with women, and then women

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Speaker 1: who are the most skilled at giving such as extra

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Speaker 1: food or something some kind of clothing um, might be

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Speaker 1: the best at taking care of a family. So what

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Speaker 1: what she's saying is that maybe if a man was

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Speaker 1: watching a woman give her best friend a sweater, that

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Speaker 1: maybe subconsciously he's thinking, Oh, she's gonna be a good,

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Speaker 1: good mom. It's another way to demonstrate your value, your

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Speaker 1: productive fitness. So we talked about that with like engagement rings,

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Speaker 1: like the act of the man giving the ring sends

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Speaker 1: a signal to the community and Floman he's about to marry,

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Speaker 1: that he's making this investment in her, and it builds

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Speaker 1: that it's a tangible um representation of the social bond

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Speaker 1: between people. So we have this ingrained habit of giving gifts,

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Speaker 1: but at the same time, you know, we have to

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Speaker 1: spend money on a gift. We have to think about it.

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Speaker 1: We have to go out and get something unless you

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Speaker 1: are really crafty and you can make it yourself, or

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Speaker 1: if you're good at online shopping or which um. Whereas

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Speaker 1: if you just get the present. I mean, I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to my birthday in a couple of da this

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Speaker 1: is all I have to do is sit there and

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Speaker 1: have people throw presents in my face and I'll just

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Speaker 1: unwrap them. But what if you don't like them? Then

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Speaker 1: I take it back, put that cash in my pocket

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Speaker 1: and take myself to the arcade. Yeah, does not inspire

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Speaker 1: confidence in me as the potential gift giver to you

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Speaker 1: for your birthday. All right, But you know the thing is,

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Speaker 1: like you said, it's an expected thing. We do it.

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Speaker 1: It's it's ingrained in us. And uh, you know we

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Speaker 1: we value gift giving. Even if you get this gift

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Speaker 1: and you don't love it, you're still gonna be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I respect this person. It's the thought that counts. It's

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Speaker 1: the thought that counts. And you know, we have this

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Speaker 1: impression as a society when you think again about these potlatches,

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Speaker 1: that gift giving and generosity is good. That someone who

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Speaker 1: wouldn't give a present? Is Scrooge McDuck right? That you know,

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Speaker 1: we we value gift giving, But the question is is

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Speaker 1: a better give to receive? Where is the value? Do

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Speaker 1: we value more the giving or the receiving. Now, if

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Speaker 1: you were to ask any any psychologists whether it's better

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Speaker 1: to give or receive, I'll bet you dollars donuts that

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Speaker 1: psychologist is gonna say, well, of course the giver reaps

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Speaker 1: the most benefits out of it emotionally, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: physical benefits the other person got the present. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: let's let's be honest. But there's all this work being

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Speaker 1: done on what happens to your brain, to your nervous system,

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Speaker 1: to your entire body when you give something, And as

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Speaker 1: it happens, there are quite quite a few physical effects

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Speaker 1: of giving that can perhaps lead to longer life, lead

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Speaker 1: to better health, um, and just make you happier overall. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot of research in recent years on

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Speaker 1: the science of happiness, and a lot of it does

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Speaker 1: come back to altruism and giving. For instance, there was

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Speaker 1: a study published in the journal Science in two thousand

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Speaker 1: eight that really studied how people responded. People at different

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Speaker 1: income levels responded to how they would then spend that money.

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Speaker 1: For instance, they got a pool of people and told

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Speaker 1: them that they we're going to get a company bonus

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Speaker 1: of anywhere from three thousand dollars to eight thousand dollars,

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Speaker 1: and then they went back and measured their happiness six

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Speaker 1: to eight weeks after getting the bonus, and also tracked

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Speaker 1: how they spent the money. And what the researchers found

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Speaker 1: was that regardless of whether you got the three thousand

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Speaker 1: dollar bonus or the maximum eight thousand dollar bonus, the

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Speaker 1: income didn't make a difference. It was overall, the people

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Speaker 1: who gave away the most, who spent the money on

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Speaker 1: more other people gave it to a charity, were the

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Speaker 1: happiest at the end of that six week period, right,

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Speaker 1: And so then they wanted to see, is it just

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Speaker 1: these large amounts of money, Uh, you know, the three thousand,

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Speaker 1: eight thousand dollar bonus, I'm sure a lot of people

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Speaker 1: sounds like something that would definitely increase happiness. Um. But

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Speaker 1: then they said, well, what if it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: between five and twenty dollars, Because they gave volunteers that

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Speaker 1: much money, and they said, you can spend this on yourself.

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Speaker 1: Or you can spend it on someone else. Now, Christen,

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Speaker 1: if someone hands you five dollars, would you go by

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Speaker 1: yourself a nice latte or did you buy me an latte?

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Speaker 1: It depends on if you're around and how much of

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Speaker 1: a caffeine boost I needed a time. That fair enough,

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Speaker 1: fair enough, But the researchers are saying that if you

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Speaker 1: bought me the latte, you'd be you'd be much happier.

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Speaker 1: And so it's from these small amounts of money, from

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Speaker 1: five dollars to up to eight thousand dollars. It's the gift.

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Speaker 1: It's not the acquisition of the money that makes the

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Speaker 1: people happy. It's the giving it away to others that

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Speaker 1: makes people happy. So they're saying, you know, if you

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Speaker 1: want to get that quick boost, five dollars to a

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Speaker 1: charity this time of year could could go a long way.

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Speaker 1: And I think that this quote from Michael Norton, who's

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Speaker 1: a professor at Harvard Business School who has uh delved

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Speaker 1: into a lot of these topics about money and happiness

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Speaker 1: and giving, sums it up well when he says, most

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Speaker 1: people would think that if you make more money, you're

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Speaker 1: gonna be a lot happier. Our results and a lot

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Speaker 1: of other people's results show that making more money does

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Speaker 1: make you a little bit happier, but it doesn't really

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Speaker 1: have a huge impact. Instead, our studies suggest that maybe

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Speaker 1: little changes in how you spend is what makes that difference,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of interesting think about. And you know,

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Speaker 1: giving to others does not have to be monetary. And

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Speaker 1: I'm going to talk now about something that was in

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Speaker 1: the Monitor on Psychology in two thousand three, and they

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Speaker 1: were reporting on a study that found that giving support

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Speaker 1: and assistance is just as important as giving money in

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Speaker 1: terms of making you happier and increasing your lifespan by

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Speaker 1: by years. And they were saying people who helped spouses

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Speaker 1: and friends and family and neighbors by doing things like

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Speaker 1: giving them rides, running errands, doing their shopping, helping with

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Speaker 1: housework or childcare, these people had physical effects on their

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Speaker 1: lifespan that the people who didn't help other people in

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Speaker 1: their lives didn't have, right, And this is from a

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Speaker 1: study where the researchers tracked around four older couples over

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Speaker 1: a five year period and they controlled for different health issues,

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Speaker 1: and those people who were doing those good deeds giving

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Speaker 1: of themselves in one way or another, were twice as

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Speaker 1: likely to survive over that five year period as the

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Speaker 1: people who weren't giving. Basically, um, they were leading healthier,

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Speaker 1: happier lives just by possibly by giving. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: a little bit of correlation causation here, but research does

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Speaker 1: overall seem to say that giving is good for you.

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Speaker 1: So so far we've done giving to charity, giving of

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Speaker 1: services in your time. But as we pointed out, Christmas

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Speaker 1: Birthday is coming up, holidays are coming up, people are

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Speaker 1: starting to give rapped presents, and the question has to

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Speaker 1: become when you exchange a wrapped present, is it better

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Speaker 1: to give than to receive? And this is where we're

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Speaker 1: gonna turn to an interesting researcher named Joel Waldfogel now

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Speaker 1: Professor Waldfogel got a pretty bad reputation for himself. He's

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Speaker 1: a professor um of Economics at the Wharton School of

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Speaker 1: the University of Pennsylvania, and he really, he really rereffled

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Speaker 1: some feathers in when he published a paper entitled The

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Speaker 1: Deadweight Loss of Christmas, where he yeah, in which he

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Speaker 1: sized up how much people value items that they received

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Speaker 1: as gifts, and he concluded that of the value of

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Speaker 1: what someone was giving, was given, was completely destroyed just

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Speaker 1: by the process of choosing the wrong thing. And he

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Speaker 1: brings up in an example of like a red sweater

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Speaker 1: versus a blue sweater. You you know you you see

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Speaker 1: this nice sweater. You know that I'd like a sweater,

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Speaker 1: but you just go with the red instead of the blue.

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Speaker 1: I unwrapid I really hate the color red? Done right there? Destroyed.

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Speaker 1: I wasted my money the only chance of making up

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Speaker 1: that value as if it has any sentimental value to you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: whereas you know, if you had gone to the store

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Speaker 1: yourself and you bought the red sweater, even though you

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Speaker 1: really don't love the color red, but you're just out

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Speaker 1: you need an impulse by you bought it, what's vocal

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Speaker 1: saying You're still gonna like it better because you bought

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Speaker 1: it for yourself than because I bought it for you,

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Speaker 1: and it's exactly what I wanted. Yeah, because you because

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Speaker 1: you bought it yourself, even though red and blue. Again,

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Speaker 1: maybe you would have wanted the blue when you opened

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Speaker 1: the present, but when you when you got the red

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Speaker 1: for yourself, you're like a score and uh and wal

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Speaker 1: Foe studied this this phenomenon so extensively that he even

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Speaker 1: turned his research into a book called screw Genomics, Why

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Speaker 1: you Shouldn't buy presents for the Holidays, And we read

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Speaker 1: an interview with Waldfoe. Well this was taking place a

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Speaker 1: while after the book came out, and and they asked

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Speaker 1: whether or not um he gives his children presence around

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Speaker 1: the holidays, and he actually does. He's just a little

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Speaker 1: more hard headed about the whole thing. And he didn't

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Speaker 1: know that people may not want to give him presents

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Speaker 1: anymore because he's going to be looking at them being like, well,

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Speaker 1: I know she spent this much, but I have destroyed

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Speaker 1: of the value. There there goes the deadweight loss. But

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Speaker 1: it's kind of funny because after he gave the stripetation

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Speaker 1: is of being like the scrooge economist of the holidays. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he went back a while later and really looked at

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Speaker 1: that sentimental value add to presents that we give, and

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Speaker 1: he kind of come came around to this idea of

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Speaker 1: you know what, yeah, this the sentimental value can can

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Speaker 1: redeem some of that deadweight loss. And you know, I

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Speaker 1: think you can look at it from a purely utilitarian

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Speaker 1: point of view and that you know, yes, I spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of time Christen buying you that red sweater

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Speaker 1: that you don't love, and it may have some SENTI

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Speaker 1: value value. But what while Vocal is not trying to,

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Speaker 1: you know, deter me from giving you a president at all,

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Speaker 1: he just a wants me to think more carefully about it,

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Speaker 1: or be consider the fact that if I want my

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Speaker 1: gift to retain the most value, Let's say I've got

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Speaker 1: twenty five dollars to give you, and I want the

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Speaker 1: gift you worth twenty five dollars, what I really need

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Speaker 1: to do is give you cash or a gift card,

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Speaker 1: because that is the only gift that is going to

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Speaker 1: retain dollar for dollar that value. Because my dollar red

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Speaker 1: sweater only really was worth ten dollars to you. But

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Speaker 1: if I give you a twenty five a gift card

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Speaker 1: to a place that sells red sweaters, you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: able to maximize all twenty five dollars of that gift exactly.

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Speaker 1: Um And maybe that's why. According to the National Retail Federation,

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Speaker 1: gift cards are the most popular gift that Americans are

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Speaker 1: going to purchase this holiday season, and they project for

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Speaker 1: the two thousand ten holiday season, we're going to drop

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Speaker 1: an average of a hundred and forty five dollars and

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Speaker 1: sixty one cents on gift cards. And gift cards spending

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Speaker 1: is expected to reach almost twenty five billion dollars, and

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Speaker 1: I find that surprising. Even though Wallpogal recommends it, and

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Speaker 1: even though those numbers indicate that lots of people are

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Speaker 1: doing the gift card thing, I still think that people

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Speaker 1: have that kind of version to saying I wanted to

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Speaker 1: spend twenty five dollars on you. You know, it's the

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Speaker 1: same thing. Why you don't you know? I was My

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Speaker 1: mom always tell me, like, we're not giving a kid

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Speaker 1: cash on his birthday because it's so it's so tacky. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: while according to the National Retail Federation, the number one

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Speaker 1: reason people don't buy gift cards is because it does

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Speaker 1: seem to you impersonal and seems a little thoughtless, wald

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Speaker 1: focal is giving you the perfect counter argument. Is about

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, you know what, it's a recession. I'm

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Speaker 1: just maximizing my dollars for myself and for the recipient.

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Speaker 1: So so wald Focle really takes a look. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's trying to make things equal for a giver and

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Speaker 1: a receiver. The giver is going to spend twenty five dollars,

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Speaker 1: the receiver's gonna get twenty five dollars worth the value

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Speaker 1: of it. But let's take away the money and go

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Speaker 1: back to what we were talking about earlier in terms

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Speaker 1: of just that warm glow feeling. I mean, if if

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Speaker 1: we take away the money from it, is it better?

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Speaker 1: I mean he's trying to make it equal better, equal

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Speaker 1: to give, equal to receive twenty five dollars worth of value,

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Speaker 1: can put a number on it, great, but taking away

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Speaker 1: that number and I just give you a present, you

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Speaker 1: receive it, you like it. Okay, who's coming out on

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Speaker 1: top here, Christen? Yeah, I see. Here's the thing with

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Speaker 1: this whole giving receiving and the whole question of whether

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Speaker 1: or not you know this means that, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: humans can be completely selfless. Well, Economist seven answer for

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Speaker 1: that as well, and it's something called impure altruism or

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Speaker 1: warm glow altruism, And it's basically this idea that we

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Speaker 1: tend to give generously when we know that we are

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Speaker 1: going to receive back generously, whether it's just the the

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Speaker 1: adoration of someone you know, just thinking that you are

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Speaker 1: the most the kindest, most thoughtful person that they know,

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Speaker 1: or a tangible payback such as a tax to turn

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Speaker 1: from a charitable donation, or you know, if I know

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Speaker 1: that my birthat is coming up soon after Christen's, I'm

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Speaker 1: getting I'm getting her a good present, social felt pressure

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Speaker 1: to get me a good present exactly. So those researchers

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Speaker 1: are saying that there is no really pure good deed

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Speaker 1: that we're always giving because we've got an eye out

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Speaker 1: for number one. Is that right? Yeah? And the Freakonomics

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Speaker 1: blog on New York Times points out that with charitable giving,

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Speaker 1: Americans tend to be pretty generous, but we're especially generous

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Speaker 1: on December thirty one, which is the last day that

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Speaker 1: you can get those tax deductible donations out the door

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Speaker 1: and then reap the benefits in April. And also there

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Speaker 1: have been studies finding that um eBay items that are

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Speaker 1: marked for charity have a much better chance of selling

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Speaker 1: than items that don't. We do get this. We definitely

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Speaker 1: feed off of that idea of the warm glow altruism,

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Speaker 1: of of wanting to receive that um that warm and

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Speaker 1: fuzzy feeling back. And as long as we're gonna give,

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Speaker 1: we want we want happy fuzzies. Because they did so

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Speaker 1: so with all of this, even with the potential deadweight loss,

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Speaker 1: I would say only this all stacks up to a

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Speaker 1: confirmation that, yes, it is better to give than receive. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And Will Fadell does point out that if we just

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Speaker 1: eliminated gift giving all together, he would prefer we do

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Speaker 1: cash and gift cards. But if we had to eliminate

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Speaker 1: all of all of those, it would have emotional repercussions

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Speaker 1: on relationships because we do thrive on that back and forth,

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Speaker 1: that acknowledgment of here's a person who is important to me.

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Speaker 1: I'm recognizing the fact that I find them important by

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Speaker 1: giving them this gift. Yeah, And it makes total sense

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Speaker 1: because we've been doing this for thousands of years. So

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Speaker 1: as you're wrapping, I hope someone out there is wrapping

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Speaker 1: presents as they listen to us. And maybe maybe you're

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Speaker 1: getting a little grumpy. Maybe I really hate when that

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Speaker 1: tape dispenser gets all all screwed up and you can't

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Speaker 1: get a nice piece of tape. If that's happening to you,

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Speaker 1: don't don't throw in the towel just yet. Just wait

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Speaker 1: for the warm glow. It's coming. Even though this season

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Speaker 1: is stressful, it's still better to go through all that

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Speaker 1: crap at the mall and uh and and reap the

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Speaker 1: emotional rewards both for yourself and your recipient. So in

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Speaker 1: the meantime we will have the gift of listener emails

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Speaker 1: to give to you. That's true, because you've given them

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Speaker 1: to us, we receive them and makes us happy now

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Speaker 1: we give them. I have one here from Melanie It's

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Speaker 1: about our Women in Scandinavia podcast, and she writes that

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Speaker 1: she lived in Sweden for two years and I have

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Speaker 1: the opportunity to travel and work all over Scandinavia. Here's

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Speaker 1: my observation about how friendly to women it is. As

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Speaker 1: you guys said, this all depends on how you quantify things.

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Speaker 1: If we're talking about possibilities and choices, the United States

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Speaker 1: comes out on top in my opinion. The high tax

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Speaker 1: is required to support the generous maternity. Paternity lead. An

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Speaker 1: extensive daycare system in Scandinavia drives the cost of everything up. Consequently,

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Speaker 1: in most Scandinavian families, both parents are forced to work

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Speaker 1: in order to sustain an average standard of a living.

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Speaker 1: There are no couples I knew in Scandinavia in which

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Speaker 1: the mother could feasibly stay home for financial reasons. However,

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Speaker 1: the United States, many of my girlfriends have chosen to

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Speaker 1: stay home with their children and are thrilled that they're

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Speaker 1: able to do this while their husband provides financial support.

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Speaker 1: So in that respect, I would say the US give

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Speaker 1: families and women more choices as far as how their

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Speaker 1: family is structured. It does not seem to me that

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Speaker 1: any country quite consciously eliminates such a big choice women

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Speaker 1: as being especially friendly to them. Pretty interesting thought to me.

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Speaker 1: It's very interesting. Well, I've got an email here from Annie,

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Speaker 1: and this is in response to our two part series

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Speaker 1: on a women's superheroes, and she writes, about a year

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Speaker 1: and a half ago, I started watching Zena Warrior Princess,

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Speaker 1: and I was shocked at what I found. After about

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Speaker 1: a season and a half of Good Can't Be Fun,

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Speaker 1: the storyline started deepening, the relationship between the two female leads,

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Speaker 1: Zena and Gabrielle deepened, and they started telling some seriously

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Speaker 1: complex tales as Zena fought for redemption. So now, even

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Speaker 1: at a quarter century, being alive and being a mostly

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Speaker 1: developed adult, I'm happy that strong women have found such

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Speaker 1: a place on television because I think It's pretty cool

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Speaker 1: that Zena of all shows, has given me two such

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Speaker 1: cool role models at this point in my life, and

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Speaker 1: it's actually led me to learn a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about my inner workings. Who knew so. Even if the

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Speaker 1: comic books are still trying to get it right, I

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Speaker 1: think female superheroes on television have been doing just fine.

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Speaker 1: So thank you Annie and to everyone else who has

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Speaker 1: written into mom Stuff. At how stuffworks dot com. You

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00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,239
Speaker 1: can also head over to our Facebook page leave us

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00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 1: a comment there let us know what's going on. You

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00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: can also follow us on Twitter at Mom's Stuff Podcast,

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Speaker 1: and then you can read our blog during the week.

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Speaker 1: It is stuff Mom Never told You at how stuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com. For more on this and thousands of

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00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 1: other topics, visit how stuff works dot com to learn

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Speaker 1: more about the podcast. Clock on the podcast icon in

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Speaker 1: the upper right corner of our homepage. The how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works I fone app has a ride. Download it today

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Speaker 1: on iTunes, brought to you by the reinvented two thousand

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