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Speaker 1: The Volume.

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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to who tonight, you're at the Volume.

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Speaker 2: Happy Wednesday, everybody. I hope all you guys are having

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Speaker 2: an incredible week. Got a jam packed show for you guys. Today,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna off the top. I'm just gonna give my

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Speaker 2: instant reaction to the Lakers big win over the Cleveland Cavaliers,

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Speaker 2: and then we're due for a deep dive on the

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Speaker 2: Cleveland Cavaliers. So Carter Rodriguez from the Chase Down Pod

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Speaker 2: is going to be joining us to do a deep

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Speaker 2: dive and everything that he's thinking and feeling about the

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Speaker 2: Calves post James Harden trade. You guys know the joke

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Speaker 2: before we get started. Subscribe to the Oops and I

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Speaker 2: YouTube channel so you don't miss any more of our videos.

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Speaker 2: Make sure you like this video and sign up for

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Speaker 2: At least, if guys want to get mailback questions into

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Speaker 2: our mail bags, drop them underneath this video. Mailbag Colon,

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Speaker 2: write your question. We'll get to them on Fridays throughout

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Speaker 2: the remainder of the season. All right, let's talk some basketball.

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Speaker 2: So that was a really impressive win for the Lakers.

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Speaker 2: Caps came in winners of six to seven. They had

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Speaker 2: been elite on offense in that stretch, a one twenty

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Speaker 2: three point four offensive rating in those seven games. Basically,

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Speaker 2: they had been an elite offense since the James Harden trade.

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Speaker 2: They have other issues, especially on defense and defensive rebounding

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Speaker 2: issues when Jared Allen's been out of the lineup. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna dig into all that with Carterez Rodriguez from the

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Speaker 2: Chase Down Pod in the second half of the show today.

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Speaker 2: But they did come in hot, especially on the offensive

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Speaker 2: end of the floor, and the Lakers had played back

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Speaker 2: to back to back games against the three worst teams

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Speaker 2: in the NBA, so I was worried that they would

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Speaker 2: struggle against such a great offense after having built some

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Speaker 2: bad habits over the last couple of games.

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Speaker 3: Basically the far and away the best.

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Speaker 2: Offense that they had played against since the Denver Nuggets

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Speaker 2: game a few weeks back. And also with some guard speed,

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Speaker 2: particularly with Donovan Mitchell, that they've struggled with in certain

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Speaker 2: matchups throughout this season. That ended up being a complete

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Speaker 2: non issue. They looked a little flat in the opening

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Speaker 2: minutes and they struggle the guard the Calves pick and

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Speaker 2: roll in the first quarter, but their offense woke up

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Speaker 2: quick and they kept things relatively close. And then in

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Speaker 2: that second quarter, jj Reddick starts switching one through five

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Speaker 2: that shuts off the Cavs pick and roll attack, and

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Speaker 2: the Calves offense literally just fell apart after that point.

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Speaker 2: Deandreton I thought, did an amazing job switching onto James

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Speaker 2: Harden and Donovan Mitchell in space at the top of

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Speaker 2: the key all night long, keeping the ball in front

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Speaker 2: for the most party. Got beat a few times, but

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Speaker 2: kept the ball in front pretty well, got some great

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Speaker 2: contests on pull up threes. He forced a big turnover

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Speaker 2: the big Lebron dunk that he got it was a switch.

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Speaker 2: Harden was trying to force the ball into Jared Allen

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Speaker 2: in the post eight and had high hands, got a

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Speaker 2: deflection that sparked the break. Lebron gets the alley oop dunk,

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Speaker 2: and then in general, I think the switching plays into

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Speaker 2: the Lakers' strengths on the defensive end of the floor.

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Speaker 2: One of the biggest drivers of their defensive success post

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Speaker 2: All Star Break is what they've done behind their ISOs.

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Speaker 2: They do a great job out when they're isoing off

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Speaker 2: the top. They do a great job of gapping getting

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Speaker 2: into the driving lanes on either side, which makes it

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Speaker 2: easier for the on ball defender. And then when they

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Speaker 2: ISO off of a cleared side, they strong side zone,

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Speaker 2: so they'll bring a defender all the way over across

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Speaker 2: the lane line and basically zone up on the strong side,

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Speaker 2: making it so that the individual defenders that might be

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Speaker 2: at some sort of physical disadvantage are clearly operating with help.

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Speaker 3: Now, that only works if you're an.

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Speaker 2: Excellent help and rotate team, and the Lakers have just

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Speaker 2: been an excellent help and rotate team post All Star Break.

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Speaker 3: They fly around.

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Speaker 2: They have smart defenders who can hawk passing lanes and

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Speaker 2: force turnovers. This is the most impressed I've been with

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Speaker 2: the Lakers defense all season, especially against a team with

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Speaker 2: some real quickness like Cleveland has, which has been a

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Speaker 2: personnel weakness for the Lakers at various points this season.

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Speaker 2: And the Lakers offense is just an absolute machine right now.

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Speaker 2: One of the weaknesses for the Cavs defense is their

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Speaker 2: lack of like big, strong perimeter defenders, so they don't

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Speaker 2: match up with Luca under normal circumstances, and Luca is

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Speaker 2: just in a really special zone right now. I know

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Speaker 2: Luca fans are all mad at me because I don't

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Speaker 2: think he really has a shot to win MVP this year,

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Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean he isn't gonna try, and that

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean he hasn't been the best player in the

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Speaker 2: world post All Star Break, which I believe he has been.

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Speaker 2: The Lakers off of Luca have absolutely mastered their spacing

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Speaker 2: and their play finishing the sequencing of their pick and

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Speaker 2: roll attack, whether they're running stack pick and roll where

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Speaker 2: they have like Austin backscreen for DeAndre and or Jackson

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Speaker 2: as he's rolling to the rim, or if they just

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Speaker 2: run standard spread pick and roll, which the Lakers did

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Speaker 2: a ton of damage to the caves tonight with just

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Speaker 2: like standard spread pick and roll, just like shooters in

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Speaker 2: the corners, opposite ball handler on the wing comes at

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Speaker 2: a ball screen, we're working two on two. They did

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Speaker 2: a ton of damage to the calves of that tonight,

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Speaker 2: but the sequencing is still generally the same. You have

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Speaker 2: your vertical spacing window on the roll with Jackson and DeAndre,

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Speaker 2: Ayton and Ayden kind of lagged behind in that area

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Speaker 2: of the season, but now they have the timing down

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Speaker 2: with Ayton really well. Ayden got Luca and easy reverse

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Speaker 2: layup on a gortat screen tonight. That's where as he's rolling,

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Speaker 2: he rolls into the big and drop coverage and kind

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Speaker 2: of clears him out so there's no rim protection. That's

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Speaker 2: just a sign of him continuing to figure out the

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Speaker 2: sequencing of the Lakers pick and roll attack Ayton. By

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Speaker 2: the way, it has just been so so good over

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Speaker 2: these last few weeks, can't believe it. But also the

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Speaker 2: weak side scoring Ruy Hazamuraz just absolutely dialed in catch

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Speaker 2: and shoot threes, chase him off the line, onedrible pull up.

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Speaker 2: He's just never missing that wonderrible pull up. Lebron's not

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Speaker 2: taking a ton of catch and shoot threes, but he's

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Speaker 2: making the few of them that he's taking, and Lebron's

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Speaker 2: doing an amazing job driving closeouts and making the next threave.

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Speaker 2: One of the great things that Lebron does really well

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Speaker 2: when he's driving closeouts is hit the Lakers vertical spacers.

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Speaker 2: A lot of guys struggle with those passing angles. The

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Speaker 2: bounce passes are the little lobs, and so they end

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Speaker 2: up driving closeouts and they have to make kickouts to

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Speaker 2: the perimeter, and Lebron will do that, He'll make a

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Speaker 2: kick out to a shooter as he drives a close out.

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Speaker 2: But Lebron's really good at like racking a close out

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Speaker 2: after Luca generates an advantage and then the Big steps

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Speaker 2: up in some way, shape or form, and he'll either

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Speaker 2: use his eyes to disrupt or to distract the big,

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Speaker 2: or whatever he does, he creates a little bit of

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Speaker 2: an area for him to hit a bounce pass or

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Speaker 2: a lob pass to the Big under the basket for

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Speaker 2: an easy dunk. Lebron is killing teams for helping off

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Speaker 2: of him without even needing to really knock down threes.

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Speaker 2: And then obviously Austin does a great job doing all

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Speaker 2: of those exact same things. Jake Lravia is a fantastic

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Speaker 2: close out attacker. The Lakers are just paying off those sequences,

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Speaker 2: paying off those advantages that Luca creates at an absurd

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Speaker 2: rate right now, and that just forces teams to make

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Speaker 2: a really tough call between loading up on Luca or

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Speaker 2: letting him work two on two against the drop And like,

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Speaker 2: how many times did we see him two on two

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Speaker 2: against the drop today? Like just looks super comfortable, just

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Speaker 2: like pump, fake pump, fake pass, fake lean back, little

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Speaker 2: one handed floater. He's got like all the mid range

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Speaker 2: stuff super dialed in. He's getting all the way to

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Speaker 2: the rim and finishing over the top. He's just killing

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Speaker 2: every single coverage that is thrown at him. Right now,

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Speaker 2: towards the end of that third quarter, they start just

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Speaker 2: throwing two on the ball at Luca, and now it's

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Speaker 2: Rueyhutch Murray getting another wide up in three or Austin

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Speaker 2: Reeves getting another wide up in three. Just they they

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Speaker 2: look unguardable right now. I'm really starting to believe in

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Speaker 2: this Laker team. The defense performance tonight was super encouraging

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Speaker 2: giving the opponent. The offense looks unstoppable. Luca looks like

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Speaker 2: the best player in the world right now. Lebron looks amazing.

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Speaker 2: Austin is just he's not putting up the statistical performances

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Speaker 2: that we've seen him do at various stages early in

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Speaker 2: the year. But he keeps filling all the gaps on offense,

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Speaker 2: whether it's just him needing to knock down spot up threes,

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Speaker 2: drawing a big three shot foul in a play, in

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Speaker 2: a sequence where the offense is bogged down a little bit,

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Speaker 2: starting to get cooking and pick and roll for two

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Speaker 2: or three minutes here or there. He's just filling the gaps.

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Speaker 2: They look like a team that really believes they have

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Speaker 2: a shot to win, and they're really going for it.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm starting to believe Thursday is going to be

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Speaker 2: the ultimate test.

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Speaker 3: That's gonna be like the real one.

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Speaker 2: We're like, are the Lakers as good as say Boston

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Speaker 2: or San Antonio? Is like a legitimate, real puncher's chance

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Speaker 2: threat to upset Oklahoma City and win a championship?

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Speaker 3: Are the Lakers at that level?

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Speaker 2: They have a chance to demonstrate that on Thursday night

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Speaker 2: in Oklahoma City. We're gonna be going live on YouTube

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Speaker 2: after the final buzzer that game. It's gonna be a

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Speaker 2: big test for them, really really excited to watch that

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Speaker 2: one has a lot of MVP implications as well. If

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Speaker 2: Luca beats Shay, that's a huge assist for Wemby as

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Speaker 2: he tries to lead the Spurs to take the one

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Speaker 2: seed and potentially rob Shay of the MVP that I

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Speaker 2: think he's in control of right now. There's all sorts

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Speaker 2: of ramifications the Lakers, if they win that game, will

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Speaker 2: essentially lock up the three seed. If they lose that game,

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Speaker 2: they're in some danger of giving up the three seed

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Speaker 2: to Denver because Denver is such an easy schedule down

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Speaker 2: the stretch. Just a huge game. Can't wait to be there,

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Speaker 2: can't wait to cover it. We will be live on

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Speaker 2: YouTube after the final buzzer.

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Speaker 1: That one.

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Speaker 2: All right, Now, what we're gonna do is we're gonna

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Speaker 2: deep dive into the caves. CARTERI Rodriguez does an amazing

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Speaker 2: job with Justin Rohan covering the calves with a podcast

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Speaker 2: called The Chase Down. They've been doing it for years.

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Speaker 2: They do amazing work. Carter and I are going to

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Speaker 2: do a deep dive into the caves. Today's show is

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Speaker 2: hard Rock Bet app today and get the party started.

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Speaker 2: Offered by this Seminal Tribe of Florida. In Florida, offered

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Speaker 2: by Seminal hard Rock Digital LLC. In all other states.

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Speaker 2: Must be twenty one plus and physically present in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan,

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Speaker 2: New Jersey, Ohio, Tennessee, or Virginia to play. Terms and

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Speaker 2: conditions apply. Concerned about gambling in Florida called one eight

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Speaker 2: three to three play wise in Indiana. If you or

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Speaker 2: someone you know has a gambling problem and wants help,

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Speaker 2: call one eight hundred and nine with it. In Ohio,

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Speaker 2: call one eight hundred my reset gambling problem called one

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Speaker 2: eight hundred gambler in Arizona, Colorado, Illinois, Michigan, New Jersey, Tennessee,

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Speaker 2: or Virginia. All right, Carter, I appreciate you. It's it's

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Speaker 2: after twelve thirty am in Cleveland, and you just had

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Speaker 2: a pretty rough night. But I appreciate you taking the

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Speaker 2: time to come talk some caves with me after that

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Speaker 2: first quarter. In all authenticity, I texted Carter before the

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Speaker 2: game saying I was concerned about this one because the

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Speaker 2: Lakers had played a bunch of crap teams over the

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Speaker 2: last week and they haven't really played a very good

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Speaker 2: offense since the Nuggets a few weeks ago, and the

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Speaker 2: Calves in this six and one stretch have had a

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Speaker 2: one twenty three and a half offensive rating.

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Speaker 3: They've been scoring the basketball really.

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Speaker 2: Well, and they've struggled with quick guards over the course

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Speaker 2: of the season. So I was worried, and that first

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Speaker 2: quarter it looked a little sketchy, But man, the Lakers

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Speaker 2: go to a switching scheme to start the second quarter.

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Speaker 2: There's some success with Jared Allen and the post there

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Speaker 2: in that second quarter that they go away from the

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Speaker 2: rest of the game. Donovan Mitchell continues this miserable slump

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Speaker 2: that he's in and the Calves punt to start the

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Speaker 2: fourth quarter as they go in what was it down

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Speaker 2: twenty six to twenty seven at that point?

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Speaker 3: Seven, Carter, where's your head at?

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Speaker 1: Man?

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Speaker 3: After that game?

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Speaker 4: You know, I think it's less about the the individual

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Speaker 4: game right now and more I just think this team

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Speaker 4: like is kind of just out of time to show.

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Speaker 1: That they're going to be a really good team.

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Speaker 4: That doesn't mean they can't be one in the playoffs,

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Speaker 4: but you just kind of look at at their run

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Speaker 4: of schedule, like they had one of the easiest schedules

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Speaker 4: in the league in the year, and you know, like.

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Speaker 1: They've mostly won.

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Speaker 4: Like I want to say, they're like sixteen and seven

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Speaker 4: now with Harden in the lineup, that might be off

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Speaker 4: by a loss or two. So you think, oh, that's

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Speaker 4: like a fifty five sixty win pas, that's great, but

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Speaker 4: like it's kind of had like you know, it's had

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Speaker 4: losses to teams that just you know, aren't trying it's

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Speaker 4: had you know, like losing to a to a Dallas

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Speaker 4: team at home. It's it's had a lot of uninspired

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Speaker 4: wins where you know, they have to play their starters

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Speaker 4: down the stretch against Utah's like fourth unit on on

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Speaker 4: Monday night, and again we're just kind of not seeing

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Speaker 4: things click with this team. And some of that's how,

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Speaker 4: you know, we can talk about this matchup U insofar

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Speaker 4: as I did think this was gonna be a tough

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Speaker 4: night because no, no Jalen, no Dean, those are kind

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Speaker 4: of your guys. You're going to start on Luca, you

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Speaker 4: can stay put your bigs on Lebron and uh Ayton.

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Speaker 4: You know, Max the foot speed is not really showing defensively,

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Speaker 4: and you know Luca had his way. But I just think,

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Speaker 4: and then I also kind of, uh, you know, I

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Speaker 4: just keep going back to like, while James Harden I

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Speaker 4: think has been ye I mean, up up until the trade,

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Speaker 4: had been a much better player than Darius Garland this season,

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Speaker 4: and I think is a better player than Darius Garland

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Speaker 4: is right now if both of them are kind of

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Speaker 4: at their a game, Like, I think you just traded

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Speaker 4: some problems around. I think it's really you know, and

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Speaker 4: you also traded some some advantages. So I don't want

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Speaker 4: to just uh, you know, I don't want to frame

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Speaker 4: it as like an overly negative thing, but like you know,

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Speaker 4: for example, like I thought Arius Garland Donovan Mitchell was

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Speaker 4: the perfect backcourt in a matchup like this. You know,

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Speaker 4: this is a team that just smoked the Lakers earlier

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Speaker 4: in the year and hardens slower style like and kind

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Speaker 4: of more deliberate attacks. Like Lakers are okay with that.

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Speaker 4: You know, like they'll they'll just try to do their

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Speaker 4: best to stay in front and and bring help, especially

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Speaker 4: when you know Kenny played some lineups that were tough

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Speaker 4: in this game too. You know, Troeder and CPJ next

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Speaker 4: to James and Evan just meant no spacing, doubles crashing

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Speaker 4: in from just about every prospective angle. But you know,

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Speaker 4: I just think the macro is like, we just need

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Speaker 4: to see them be great for a minute. And whether

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Speaker 4: that's a whether it's been injuries, focused defensively, or just

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Speaker 4: general attention to detail and effort, we haven't seen it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, to your point about the spacing, there was a

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Speaker 2: play in the second half where it kind of felt

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Speaker 2: like the the Cavs shifted their approach in the switching

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Speaker 2: attack to trying to beat them at the point of

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Speaker 2: attack with their guards. And Donovan was really trying to

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Speaker 2: get going driving in the basketball in that third quarter.

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Speaker 2: But like there's a play where he turns it over

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Speaker 2: where he's driving off the right wing and it's Thomas

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Speaker 2: Bryant one pass away and Nakwon Tomlin one pass away,

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Speaker 2: And you don't think the Lakers are just like, all right, dude,

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Speaker 2: let's just build a wall and good luck trying to

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Speaker 2: drive through all of us. And he tried to drive

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Speaker 2: through all of them and he ended up turning it over.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's funny because to your point, like, there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of ingredients here that I like that aren't

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Speaker 2: coming together for a variety of reasons. And I'm going

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Speaker 2: to actually choose to go positive here because I do

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Speaker 2: think there's a lot of things that I can look

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Speaker 2: at that I do think will get better. So, for example,

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Speaker 2: like I do think Donovan Mitchell will play a lot

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Speaker 2: better than he has been. He's really struggling to knock

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Speaker 2: down threes right now, which is trickling down into a

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Speaker 2: lot of different parts of his game. He's not the

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Speaker 2: first guard that kind of can force the issue and

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Speaker 2: make mistakes off the bounce when he's missing threes, because

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Speaker 2: it becomes kind of a little bit of a mind

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Speaker 2: fuck for lack of a better term, because it can

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Speaker 2: mess with your natural kind of like give and take

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Speaker 2: as an offensive player with the way that you attack

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Speaker 2: players in ISO. But you've got like all these little

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Speaker 2: things like Okay, Max Strus, I think he looks great

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Speaker 2: on offense so far. That second Heat game in particularly,

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Speaker 2: just has that pop in transition the way he's hunting

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Speaker 2: those threes. But he had a play where he was

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Speaker 2: trying to guard Jimehakes off of the left wing where

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Speaker 2: him just hit him with the right to left crossover

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Speaker 2: and he just got froze and just stood still and

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Speaker 2: Himey went right around him to the basket for a layup.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh yeah, like the lateral quickness and conditioning.

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Speaker 1: Hard for that, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: And it's just like it's not quite there yet, like

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Speaker 2: you talked about, like Darius brought this element of like

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Speaker 2: pace and transition where like that Heat game, for example,

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Speaker 2: they score almost fifty points in transition in that game.

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Speaker 2: It was a it was a beautiful, fast paced type

351
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Speaker 2: of game, but for the most part post trade, they

352
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Speaker 2: haven't been a team that's played with as much pace

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Speaker 2: in transition. I try not to get too niitpiky about

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Speaker 2: the defense because there's some pretty clear numbers that show

355
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Speaker 2: that they're just way better at defending and getting rebounds

356
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Speaker 2: when Jared Allen and Evan Mobley are available.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, can I interrupt you? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, I think what this roster is is it I

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Speaker 4: think it might only be able to function with when

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Speaker 4: those two are available, because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 4: you know, the DeAndre Hunter thing going as sideways as

362
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Speaker 4: it did meant that you really only have three playable

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Speaker 4: bigs on the roster that you really trust, and that's Dean,

364
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Speaker 4: Evan and Jared and wal Dean is a very helpful

365
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Speaker 4: role player, like you know, you don't want to build

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Speaker 4: the plane out of them, and like if they and

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Speaker 4: also because they you know, like Darius was kind of

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Speaker 4: the lineup of garbage man, like whatever, you know, whatever

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Speaker 4: was available Dari. You know, Kenny would kind of turn

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Speaker 4: to Darius and say, can you generate a decent offensive

371
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Speaker 4: rating out of this? And I think where James is

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Speaker 4: at his point in his career, is he needs good

373
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Speaker 4: screen set for him, and he needs someone to kind

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Speaker 4: of create that downhill pressure. You know, I this Cavs

375
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 4: team kind of abandoned the pick and roll earlier in

376
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Speaker 4: the year, and like, by adding Dennis Struder and James Harden,

377
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Speaker 4: you are now a very heavy pick and roll team,

378
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Speaker 4: and you can't really get by with only one big

379
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Speaker 4: who is setting screens and creating that pressure downhill. So

380
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 4: that's on the offensive and then on the defensive end.

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Speaker 4: They have a bunch of guys who you know, Like

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Speaker 4: you look at James and Donovan and they are of

383
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Speaker 4: the sleepiest off ball players that you'll watch, and neither

384
00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 4: are particularly able to hold up at the point of

385
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Speaker 4: attack either. You know, James is better than that than

386
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Speaker 4: even Darius. I would say unbalanced, but one thing Darius

387
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Speaker 4: never did was mess up. You know, you might get

388
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Speaker 4: scored over, but he's going to be in the right spot.

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Speaker 4: And if you've got guys like Keon Gambling and James Gambling,

390
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Speaker 4: you better have a strong back line for forty eight

391
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Speaker 4: minutes and like, and you even see it in the

392
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Speaker 4: Lakers game tonight where you have Jared's still on the

393
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:21,080
Speaker 4: minutes restriction while Thomas Bryant's been really really helpful for them.

394
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Speaker 4: He can't do that. He can't be the clean up

395
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Speaker 4: everything guy. Yeah, So like having fifteen to twenty minutes

396
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Speaker 4: of the two of them on the floor together, but

397
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Speaker 4: really forty eight minutes of at least one of them,

398
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Speaker 4: I don't think this team And like, I think that's

399
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Speaker 4: probably the greatest sign for why this team could still

400
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:41,159
Speaker 4: get up to the level that we're talking about, is

401
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,399
Speaker 4: that Jared hasn't been playing. Yeah so good. Yeah, and

402
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:46,480
Speaker 4: he's so good, dude.

403
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like he runs the floor so well.

404
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 2: It's amazing how often he'll get like deep seals off

405
00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,040
Speaker 2: of transition cross matches or just create easy little quick

406
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,360
Speaker 2: kickhead vertical spacing opportunities just because he beats everybody down

407
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,800
Speaker 2: the floor. Again, like the Lakers shrunk the floor a

408
00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,040
Speaker 2: little bit on Jarrett to start the third quarter, But

409
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Speaker 2: I also thought the Calves kind of bailed on it

410
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,639
Speaker 2: quickly and went to their guards instead of like trying

411
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Speaker 2: to actually manipulate the spacing to get the ball to

412
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Speaker 2: Jared Allen so he could work. There's a certain amount

413
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 2: with the switching to where like so for instance, Jarrett

414
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Speaker 2: brings plenty in that second quarter run.

415
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Speaker 3: But it's not enough.

416
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Speaker 2: If Donovan's in a good groove and has his three

417
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Speaker 2: point shot going, now you have multiple avenues with which

418
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 2: to attack the switching and it probably looks better. So

419
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Speaker 2: like to your point, like, there are certain things with

420
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Speaker 2: this Caves team that are just reality. So like when

421
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Speaker 2: I texted Card before the game and said that I

422
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Speaker 2: was concerned about the matchup, Carter goes, hey, we don't

423
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Speaker 2: have Dan, we don't have Jalen Tyson. There are biggest

424
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Speaker 2: perimeter defenders. They were not going to be able to

425
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Speaker 2: guard Luca, and you were so spot on about that.

426
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,480
Speaker 2: Luca literally looked like he was having fun all night.

427
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 2: Like he did not look uncomfortable even for a second.

428
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 2: Other than Dennis getting up in Austin's jersey a little bit,

429
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 2: there wasn't really any discomfort that was being caused for

430
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Speaker 2: the Lakers ball handlers. But even when I dig into that,

431
00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 2: like Jalen and Dean are definitely bigger, better options for Luca.

432
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 2: But I don't think big perimeter defenders is a strength

433
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 2: for this Cavs team. It is a bracket coverage. It

434
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,720
Speaker 2: is small and quick get up into the ball, force

435
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: you to rush force you to overpenetrate, where we have

436
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,160
Speaker 2: these two bigs on the back line that can clean

437
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 2: up the mess. So in a lot of ways, they're

438
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 2: kind of a bad matchup for some of the bigger

439
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,240
Speaker 2: ball handling type teams. So that where you look at

440
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 2: Detroit and Boston as examples in the Eastern Conference playoffs.

441
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,879
Speaker 2: But the flip side of that is there are teams

442
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 2: like Philly and New York that are trying to attack

443
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: you with small guards, and I do think that Cleveland

444
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,760
Speaker 2: kind of slots nicely into some of those other matchups,

445
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 2: and so we can be real about like some of

446
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 2: their personnel weaknesses for certain types of matchups. But I

447
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,800
Speaker 2: do think Donovan Mitchell will play better. I do think

448
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,520
Speaker 2: Max is like Jokic said this after his knee injury,

449
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 2: and he's so right, like it takes a month to

450
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 2: really get your legs underneath you. When you start playing

451
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,560
Speaker 2: basketball again full time, Max will start moving better.

452
00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:58,840
Speaker 3: Right.

453
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 2: The spacing of those lineups will look better when Dean

454
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: Wade and Sam Maryroll are available. To the point you

455
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 2: were making the Calves need to put the Lakers in

456
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 2: the predicament of loading up on mismatches and having too

457
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,360
Speaker 2: much shooting off the ball for the Lakers to get

458
00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 2: away with it. They couldn't do that tonight because of

459
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 2: the way the lineups were structured. And so I do

460
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 2: think that I still land that this team is significantly

461
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,479
Speaker 2: better than they look. You mentioned before we started recording two.

462
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 2: Certainly better than this well, yeah, exactly sure, you mentioned

463
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 2: before the recording Western Conference road trip too.

464
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:33,400
Speaker 3: That'll always wear you down.

465
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 2: So like there's there's certainly a higher ceiling in there,

466
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,000
Speaker 2: while there are also some realistic limitations.

467
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean there they are a good team, They're

468
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 4: just not a great team, and you know, their talent

469
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 4: to just that they should be a great team right now,

470
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 4: and again we just haven't seen it. And like hard

471
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,120
Speaker 4: of me wonders, you know, Jason, like is it Sometimes

472
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 4: it's just not you're in year, and like it just

473
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 4: might not be their year. I don't know how to

474
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 4: square up like going through eighty two games of never

475
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 4: really feeling like this team is someone that other teams

476
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,960
Speaker 4: should just be terrified to play against and then say,

477
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 4: but they should make the finals, or but they should

478
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 4: make the conference finals, like like I like the matchup

479
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 4: against the Pistons in the second round, but I just

480
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 4: kind of need to see them and maybe they'll prove

481
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 4: it to me in the first round when Donovan and

482
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: James are much more locked in. You know, you mentioned

483
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,880
Speaker 4: Donovan's slump, and by the way, this is an annual thing,

484
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,000
Speaker 4: and this is actually good news. Normally, his you know,

485
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 4: he's down like four percent from the field, like five

486
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 4: or six percent from three pre and post All Star Break.

487
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 4: This year it was like pretty much the same. I

488
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 4: think it was nine points worst post All Star Break

489
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 4: last year. It's an annual thing, and I don't know

490
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,160
Speaker 4: if that's where and terror if it's just getting ready,

491
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 4: if it's just wanting the playoffs to be here or what.

492
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 4: But the good news is that that typically reverts once

493
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 4: we get to the postseason and those numbers go way

494
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 4: back up, not to their pre All Star Break level,

495
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 4: because I mean, it's hard to score in the playoffs,

496
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,400
Speaker 4: So I'm not going to like judge a guy by

497
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,040
Speaker 4: his best regular season stretches.

498
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: Against how that he does in the playoffs.

499
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 4: That stuff should definitely be on the way back up,

500
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:21,679
Speaker 4: and I just think this team really needs Donovan to

501
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 4: be able to do that to make Kenny's lineup choices

502
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 4: a little bit easier, you know, to make it easier

503
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,440
Speaker 4: to absorb a quiet Evan game from time to time

504
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 4: and things like that, because I don't think that stuff's

505
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 4: ever going to go away. But yeah, it's it's just weird.

506
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 4: This team just last year they were so much more

507
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 4: than the some of their parts, and this year they

508
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 4: feel like ninety percent of the sum of their parts.

509
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's still this playoff upside that I see where

510
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 2: first of all, Donovan Mitchell has just been one of

511
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 2: the most if not the most reliable playoffs scorer in

512
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 2: the Eastern Conference over the last few years. Like the

513
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: dude is you can book him for thirty points a game.

514
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 2: And then James Harden. We're gonna talk about Garland here

515
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,920
Speaker 2: in a minute, but like James Harden is certainly going

516
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 2: to be a better playoff player than Garland was in

517
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 2: the last few years because he was constantly hurt and

518
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: he wasn't able to break the defense down the way

519
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 2: that he typically did. There is a depth of shooting talent,

520
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 2: like Jalen Tyson and Sam Merril are your two lasers.

521
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 2: They're the two guys that you quitely cannot Yeah, and Max.

522
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: We should have enough shooting.

523
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 4: If Kean Ellis is like our fifth best perimeter shooter

524
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,800
Speaker 4: in the in the you know, in the role player rotation,

525
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 4: like that should be sufficient.

526
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: Yes, And and Keon's averaging like damn near two and

527
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: a half stocks per game since he joined the team,

528
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 2: that those lineups are performing really well.

529
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: There's a version of this.

530
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 2: Let's not forget too that the Mobile Allen duo has

531
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: constantly been banged up in one way or another over

532
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 2: the course of the last few postseason runs. So like,

533
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: my whole thing is like I'm with you, where let's

534
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 2: not delude ourselves into thinking that they're just on the

535
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 2: precipice of being awesome and till they show us more.

536
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 2: But I'm holding out hope simply based on the fact

537
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 2: that right after the trade, I love this roster on

538
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: paper for a simple reason. I thought they were extremely balanced.

539
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 2: They had a depth of these like quick perimeter defenders

540
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 2: that they could deploy on quick guards. Jalen Tyson, I

541
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: can't believe how amazing he's been. Like, Jalen's been one

542
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: of my favorite role players to watch this year. Carter, like,

543
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: I just think he's so good, and like, between him

544
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 2: and Max, you have a couple of your bigger fire

545
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: hydrant trunkier types of perimeter defenders. You have a shit

546
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: ton of shooting, you have constant pick and roll threats

547
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 2: on the floor alongside your ball handlers, and you have

548
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,480
Speaker 2: a much more reliable duo at the head of this

549
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 2: than you did in previous years because of Garrett Garland's injuries.

550
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 2: And so again, it hasn't materialized from what it was

551
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 2: on paper yet, but I think that upside is still

552
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 2: in there and for.

553
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 1: What it's worth.

554
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:51,959
Speaker 4: Like while I did note some of the you know,

555
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 4: problems that you're trading going from you know, Darius getting

556
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 4: shot over to games falling asleep and some things like that,

557
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 4: like you all, and like you know, the water bugs

558
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 4: stuff with Darius is valuable because Donovan doesn't really play

559
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 4: a water bug style. He plays a very physical you

560
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 4: know he like I always like to write, more like

561
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: a running back hit in the hole, you know, so

562
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 4: like uh, Darius's style there was helpful. But one thing

563
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:24,159
Speaker 4: I will say is both Darius and Donovan struggled with

564
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 4: all the physicality. I think, especially off ball in a

565
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 4: playoff setting, it was really hard for him to catch

566
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 4: the ball with advantage to get.

567
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: Into the the sets.

568
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 4: And sometimes I think both of them you could definitely

569
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 4: say they got sped up by pressure, by ball pressure.

570
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 4: And one thing James I don't expect to happen to

571
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 4: James is for him to get sped up because he's big.

572
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, he's.

573
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 4: Bigger, he's stronger, his passing ales are easier when you

574
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 4: put two on the ball on him, and like he's

575
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 4: just done it. He's got so many reps of doing

576
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 4: it now, like he could do the disappearing act thing.

577
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 4: And that's where you kind of say, hey, Donovan, go

578
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 4: get forty five or we're not winning this game. But

579
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 4: I actually think that's a relatively plausible solution, you know,

580
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 4: as long as they're able to keep finding Jared and

581
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 4: Evan who have you know, both been really phenomenal since

582
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 4: the trade. That's the other real benefit is you can

583
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 4: love Darius as much as I do. He never made

584
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 4: these bigs look this good as James has made them

585
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 4: look so it you know, all hope isn't lost, and

586
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 4: you can find a lot of little individual pieces.

587
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: Stuff feel really really good.

588
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 4: It's just and even like to your point, like just

589
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 4: look at the roster, like you're gonna see a bunch

590
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 4: of top thirty, top forty guys on there and a

591
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 4: bunch of role players that we like, and yet it

592
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 4: just hasn't come together. And I don't and like I

593
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 4: think a big challenge as part of this, Jason, is that,

594
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 4: like all this whole team came together right as we

595
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 4: got to the least correl eightive month of the season.

596
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: You know, March is like March is like known famous

597
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 4: as being the this doesn't matter a month, yes, And

598
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 4: I don't know how to square the this doesn't matter

599
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 4: a month with this is the only time we get

600
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 4: to watch our new team play.

601
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: To your point, like the Lakers found their legs in

602
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: a stretch where they happen to play good teams every

603
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: other night for like two weeks, Like it's it's hard

604
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 2: to figure out how to play good basketball when you're

605
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 2: in a weird stretch of your schedule. There's a certain

606
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 2: amount of like trial by fire that you almost need.

607
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: And for the record, that could be your first round

608
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 2: series and and that that's gonna be that's gonna be

609
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 2: the optimism you're cleaning too.

610
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, if if we're gonna if we're gonna have some

611
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 4: copium here on the pod, like maybe there's some value

612
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 4: in being the four five instead of getting like a

613
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 4: cupcake in the first round, like having to play a

614
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 4: team that's like, you know, in really good form, whether

615
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 4: that's Atlanta or Toronto or a Philly team that's looking

616
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 4: a lot healthier, and uh, you know, maybe maybe a

617
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 4: little like six gamer, which normally you hate to see,

618
00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 4: Like maybe they need a little bit of that, just

619
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 4: like you good could be good, but it's just and

620
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 4: also like this is also a team that we've just

621
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 4: we spent the entirety of the summer saying whatever. You

622
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 4: could go eighty two and zero and we wouldn't respect

623
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 4: you losers exactly. So you make the conference finals, so

624
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 4: like maybe they just listen.

625
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: I don't know.

626
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 2: I think you'd rather have I think you'd rather have

627
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 2: a competitive like, oh, we're in game six of the

628
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: conference finals. After this type of regular season, what happened

629
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 2: last year? Any day of the week, I would imagine.

630
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, well last year was it was a spirit breaker

631
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 4: in more ways than one. Justin always says this, and

632
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 4: I think it's a great one, which is uh, uh,

633
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 4: you know, it's hard to imagine after after a game

634
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 4: game two of that that heat series when they you know,

635
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 4: they blew them off the floor. That that was the

636
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 4: last that was you know, the era pretty much ended

637
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 4: right then. Yeah, yeah, you know like it felt it felt,

638
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,719
Speaker 4: you know, because that's when Darius hurt his telle, you know,

639
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 4: miss the rest of the series, you know, was very limited,

640
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 4: the rest of the playoffs, and then you know it's

641
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 4: spilled into this season and like like at the highs

642
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 4: leaving the arena that night and h and you know,

643
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 4: now Darius is elsewhere and and this team urgency to

644
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 4: win goes way up and it was already pretty high

645
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 4: in the first place.

646
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, that series is crazy.

647
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: They shot.

648
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe how well they shot on like just

649
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 2: kick ahead transition threes, Like it was just it was

650
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,240
Speaker 2: they were they were clicking. They were absolutely peaking on

651
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: offense in that series. And like you said, it was

652
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: so predicated on Darius's ability to break the defense with

653
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 2: his speed, and as soon as his toe went, it

654
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: just was irreplaceable. Speaking of Darius, my take on the

655
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 2: Darius thing is pretty simple, Like you had a decision

656
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 2: to make and it's the same decision, Like there's a

657
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 2: version of Steph Curry's career where he's unable to stabilize

658
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 2: with his ankle injuries. You know, and that's not to

659
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: say that Darius is Steph Curry, but you were in

660
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 2: a predicament where you had this roster with all this

661
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: on paper talent, and you had.

662
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: To side your second Apron team.

663
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 2: Yep, second Aprin team. You had to decide are we

664
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 2: going to bet on Darius getting healthy or are we

665
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 2: going to take the previous couple of years as indicators

666
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 2: that we need to take a safer option. And and

667
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: to me, James Harden was that safer win now type

668
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: of option.

669
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 4: I I knew as the highering option. What's up in

670
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 4: some in some ways a higher ceiling option. Yeah, maybe

671
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 4: not a five year window, but for this year window,

672
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 4: I would.

673
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 3: Say it is absolutely.

674
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 2: And I think even when we talk about Harden's issues

675
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 2: in the past, they largely came when he could when

676
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: he was a second option. They came along like oh

677
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 2: Kwi is now hurt, or yeah, embiids doing embiids stuff.

678
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 2: The idea was like yeah. The idea was like Donovan

679
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 2: is a more stable number one for him to be

680
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 2: a number two four, And like the I I knew

681
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 2: at the time that there was a version of this

682
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 2: trade where Darius went to the Clippers and was awesome,

683
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: And I knew you knew that as well, And I

684
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: know you are a huge Darius fan, and I know

685
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: I was a huge Darius fan. So my thing is like,

686
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: I'm I'm not ready to like jump into some sort

687
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 2: of big revisionist history here. I'm happy for Darius that

688
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 2: he's playing really well. I hope he stays healthy. He's

689
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: one of my favorite players to watch when he's in

690
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: a good groove. But I also think the Calves were

691
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: in a situation where they had to make a tough call,

692
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: and I'm not ready to say they made the wrong call.

693
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 2: What's your whole take on the whole Darius Carland situation?

694
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 4: You know, part of me watching him in LA and

695
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,280
Speaker 4: again he was my favorite player on the team's and

696
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 4: as I get older, I find that and I have

697
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 4: the luxury of just being a fan for the most part,

698
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 4: and as I get older, I care a lot more

699
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 4: about liking what I'm watching on the floor than you know,

700
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 4: the end outcome being an x percent higher chance to

701
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 4: the title. And I understand front office is not allowed

702
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 4: to operate that way. I have a luxury as a

703
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 4: fan and may be a fan with some perspective on

704
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 4: life and wanting my hobby to be as fun as possible. Ah,

705
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 4: But watching him on the Clippers, you know, context is everything,

706
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 4: you know, and like him getting to be the only

707
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 4: small guard on the floor, and you know, Kawhi just

708
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 4: kind of seems makes so much sense for him as.

709
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: A running mate.

710
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, when you watch on the floor in

711
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 4: a way that like, yeah, like if he stays healthy,

712
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 4: that's its own thing.

713
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 1: I don't even really want to talk about it.

714
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,840
Speaker 4: I think the basketball fit with Donovan had enough questions

715
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 4: on its own. I actually felt more on the offensive

716
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 4: side than the defensive side. Like I only ever watched

717
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 4: them lose because their offense uh in that era, and

718
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 4: it was because Darius and Darius couldn't get it going

719
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 4: to help enough. And when Donovan went superhero mode, they

720
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 4: still had a like one oh three offensive ratings.

721
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 2: It was always that one thing with Donovan where he'd

722
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,400
Speaker 2: put up big numbers, but the the team scoring wouldn't

723
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 2: really follow.

724
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's because he's not a pure he's not

725
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 4: a point guard, and like Donovan has you know, like

726
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 4: Justin has made his joke a few times. It's like,

727
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 4: it's funny that Darius is a you know, a relatively

728
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,200
Speaker 4: normal sized point guard, but is the one that's blamed

729
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 4: for them being undersized. And it's like, well, no, no,

730
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 4: they have a six to two shooting guard and uh,

731
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 4: you know, so, like, if you're going to commit to Donovan,

732
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 4: I do think it makes sense to try to thread

733
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 4: the needle to find because you can't not have a

734
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 4: point guard, like everyone who wanted to trade Darius for

735
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 4: Herb Jones and you know, and and some picks back

736
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 4: in the day, Like, you know, we've seen that the

737
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 4: offense needs an organizer and an initiator, and we found

738
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 4: that Evan isn't going to be that guy, at least

739
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 4: now right now. And I bet On generally not. I

740
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 4: think he's not. That's just not who he is. So

741
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 4: you need a point guard, so, you know, short of

742
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 4: fine Lebron James to go be a six to eight

743
00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 4: point guard. Like, are you finding a better big point

744
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 4: guard to pair with your undersize shooting guard than James

745
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 4: Harden right now on the market. I don't think so.

746
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 4: I think it was a I understand the swing even

747
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 4: though it's probably not one I would have made, but

748
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,319
Speaker 4: you know, there's a lot of like emotion and like

749
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 4: my different priorities at play there. But I just really

750
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 4: think this was a big investment in Donovan Mitchell and

751
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 4: and this is them saying, hey, Donovan, we think you're

752
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:36,280
Speaker 4: good enough to be the number one on a title

753
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 4: team for us, and we think if we give you

754
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 4: the right piece, you will you will carry us to

755
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 4: the Promised Land. And like that's a lot of pressure

756
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 4: to put on a player who has not yet made

757
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 4: the conference finals. But like that, you know, I do

758
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 4: respect the ballsiness of it, because it's not that hard

759
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 4: to just keep kicking the.

760
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: Can down the road.

761
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 4: So yeah, I I you know, I don't I don't

762
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 4: think if Dari Scarland is great, that means it was

763
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 4: a stupid trade.

764
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 1: Uh.

765
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 4: And I don't think that if they lose early, it

766
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,839
Speaker 4: was inherently a stupid trade, because there's just so much

767
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 4: context that goes into it. And like, you know, it

768
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,160
Speaker 4: does seem like, whether interpersonally or within the org, that

769
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 4: there was this idea that, hey, we need to move

770
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 4: on from this this core four group. Uh, and we

771
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,760
Speaker 4: don't think it's gonna we don't believe that it's gonna

772
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 4: work for us. And sometimes even if once you land

773
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,279
Speaker 4: at that belief system, you have to make a call.

774
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 4: You have to make a call something We saw Windhorse

775
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,800
Speaker 4: report a lot in the lead up to the trade,

776
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 4: and uh, and even if you don't win a title,

777
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 4: that doesn't mean you you know, you were wrong in

778
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 4: that evaluation. That the joy and frustration of basketball is

779
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 4: that will never know. We'll never know if they if

780
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 4: it would have, they would have just if they just

781
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 4: needed to be healthy and they would have beaten Indiana

782
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 4: and all would have been fine. Because I haven't even

783
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 4: been healthy this year. This was their thirty seventh starting

784
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 4: lineup of the season.

785
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: Tonight.

786
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 4: So it's just been a weird year, man, a weird

787
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 4: year and hard hard to parse as a fan.

788
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 2: To your point, it was a swing. It was a swing,

789
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:19,799
Speaker 2: and it's way too early to make any sort of

790
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: gigantic judgment on the swing, especially given the weirdness because

791
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: of the injuries that's taken place after the trade was made.

792
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 2: And so I'm one hundred percent on the same page

793
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: with you. To your point, like, there's there's a multi

794
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,959
Speaker 2: year window here, what if they do you know, sign

795
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 2: Lebron on the veteran minimum, and suddenly they go after

796
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 2: it again next year. Like I, it's certainly a non

797
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: zero chance, right, So.

798
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 4: Like I don't, I have no clue what this team

799
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 4: is going to look like next year right now, less

800
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 4: than no clue. They also might just do nothing because

801
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 4: it's like, well, we only had like we've I mean,

802
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,280
Speaker 4: the core woar have played like less than sixty minutes together.

803
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 4: Still exactly like it's very reasonable to come to that

804
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 4: conclusion of like, hey, we don't even know who what

805
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 4: we are are, so let's bring it back again.

806
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: I have no clue. Dude.

807
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: Well, Carter, it's after one am in Cleveland, you were

808
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: a trooper for us tonight is sincerely appreciate. It's always

809
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,799
Speaker 2: good to see you. I always enjoy talking hoops with you.

810
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: This Cavs team was one that I said after the

811
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 2: deal was the team that I was highest on in

812
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 2: the Eastern Conference. I can't say the same thing now

813
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 2: that has shifted towards Boston, but I'm still holding out

814
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: some hope. Why don't you tell everybody where they can

815
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 2: find yours and Justin's.

816
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 4: Work, they can find us the Chase down pod It's

817
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 4: on whatever audio platform you like, and if you want to,

818
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 4: if you're a video podcast that you can see our

819
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 4: live streams on the Calves official YouTube channel.

820
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 3: That's awesome.

821
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 2: Thanks Carter, we appreciate you guys. All right, everybody, that's

822
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 2: all we have for tonight. We will see you guys

823
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 2: tomorrow