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Speaker 1: On this episode of News World. In two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 1: Texas was faced with a crisis of overcrowded prisons and

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Speaker 1: a projected two billion dollar demand. To remedy this problem,

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Speaker 1: Right on Crime, part of the Texas Public Policy Foundation,

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Speaker 1: supported an investment of two hundred and forty one million

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Speaker 1: dollars into alternative sentencing, expanded access to parole, and evidence

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Speaker 1: based programs aimed at improving the success rate for those

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Speaker 1: re entering society or on supervision. As a result, eleven

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Speaker 1: prisons closed while simultaneously reducing crime to the lowest level

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Speaker 1: since the nineteen sixties. Instead of spending two billion dollars,

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Speaker 1: Texas saved four billion dollars. So I'm really pleased to

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Speaker 1: welcome my guests. Brett Tolman, executive director of Right on Time. Brett,

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Speaker 1: welcome and thank you for joining me in News World.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, mister speaker. Great to be with you.

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Speaker 1: Before we get into Right on Crime, You've actually had

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Speaker 1: a very interesting legal career. Could you walk us kind

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Speaker 1: of through all the different things you've done.

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Speaker 2: People ask me how I did what I did, but

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Speaker 2: I think I was more lucky than good. But I

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Speaker 2: came out of law school as a federal prosecutor for

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Speaker 2: about a decade, and then I wanted to go back

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Speaker 2: to Washington, d C. And I served as counsel and

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Speaker 2: then ultimately chief counsel over crime and terrorism in the

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Speaker 2: United States Senate and got to see how laws were made,

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Speaker 2: but also to see the challenges as I worked on

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Speaker 2: national security issues and got to see things like interrogations

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Speaker 2: in Guantanamo Bay, all kinds of interesting things. And then

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Speaker 2: President Bush was kind enough to make me the US

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Speaker 2: attorney in Utah, and I did that for about four years.

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Speaker 2: And the last case I did in the courtroom as

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Speaker 2: a trial lawyer was prosecuting the kidnapper of Elizabeth Smart,

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Speaker 2: which I'm very proud that he's not on the streets,

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Speaker 2: as I think he would harm individuals if he were out.

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Speaker 2: And that was my journey, I guess through the criminal

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Speaker 2: justice system, and I became a prosecutor because as a

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Speaker 2: young kid, my oldest sister was kidnapped and raped in college.

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Speaker 2: Just a devastating moment for our family. And I'm happy

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Speaker 2: to say that she's doing terrific today and a wonderful mother.

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Speaker 2: What a traumatic thing, and I think that inspired me

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Speaker 2: to be a prosecutor, and I was going to try

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Speaker 2: to find bad guys and put him in jail. But

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Speaker 2: here I am now twenty five years in the criminal

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Speaker 2: justice system, and I'm actually fighting for changes in the

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Speaker 2: criminal justice system because we have done a poor job.

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Speaker 2: Our recidivism rate is seventy plus percent still, and that

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Speaker 2: to me, is a measure of failure in any corporate

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Speaker 2: or government standard we might apply.

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Speaker 1: Well, can you talk about the federal supervisor release program.

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Speaker 2: It's really fascinating to me that you take, for example,

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Speaker 2: in the federal system, every individual that gets out of

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Speaker 2: prison is supervised for roughly five years, and it's an

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Speaker 2: inordinate amount of money that's devoted to supervision. And right now,

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Speaker 2: there is, however, data and research that shows if you

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Speaker 2: supervise folks longer than eighteen months, you actually can increase

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Speaker 2: their recidivism. I tell people all the time, I don't

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Speaker 2: want the left making changes to the criminal justice system.

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Speaker 2: They don't do it right. They don't do it based

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Speaker 2: on data and research and what works, like you referenced

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Speaker 2: in Texas. They do it based on emotion. They'll call

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Speaker 2: for defunding the police, or they'll call for whatever drastic

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Speaker 2: change supervision It's one of the last remaining issues up

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Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill where both sides are saying, hey, let's

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Speaker 2: incentivize them like we did in the first step back.

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Speaker 2: If they'll do what they're supposed to, then we can

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Speaker 2: shorten their term of supervision and it'll reduce crime, and

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Speaker 2: it'll give them the hope and opportunity to do the

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Speaker 2: things they're supposed to. Get jobs, go to school, work

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Speaker 2: on their family and their well being.

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Speaker 1: You know, we should have explained everybody. The recidivism is

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Speaker 1: the rate at which people go back to prison. So

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Speaker 1: if you can reduce recidivism, you're reducing the number of

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Speaker 1: prisoners you have because they're not breaking the law. Then,

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Speaker 1: So this is something I originally got tied into by

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Speaker 1: Chuck Colson, who had served time in prison coming out

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Speaker 1: of Watergate, and who had become totally committed to faith

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Speaker 1: based models and to thinking through how do we take

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Speaker 1: somebody who has broken the law, help them change their life,

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Speaker 1: and help them prepare to live once they left prison

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Speaker 1: without ever going back. Now I am curious for a second,

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Speaker 1: what's your theory of why is it that after eighteen

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Speaker 1: months supervision actually becomes destructive.

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Speaker 2: I think It's a number of factors, but it really

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Speaker 2: boils down to two things. One, the likelihood of minor

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Speaker 2: infractions increases. And when I say minor, you know, when

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Speaker 2: you're in supervision, you have to check in with your

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Speaker 2: supervising agent. You have certain things you can and can't do,

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Speaker 2: you can't travel out of your jurisdictions. All of those

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Speaker 2: things can cause a violation to occur. So you have

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Speaker 2: an exponentially higher chance as they get back into regular

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Speaker 2: life to make a minor infraction, which then they can

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Speaker 2: be revoked on their supervision and brought back in. The

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Speaker 2: Other issue is it is incredibly exhausting. Most of the

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Speaker 2: individuals that you talk to now, keep in mind they've

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Speaker 2: served their sentence in a lot of cases lengthy sentences,

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Speaker 2: so they're out. This supervision is so long that it

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Speaker 2: causes quite the discouragement and frustration, and they are always

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Speaker 2: constantly feeling like people are looking over their shoulders. It's

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Speaker 2: conservative states who have taught us this. It's states like

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Speaker 2: Oklahoma and Georgia and Mississippi that have shortened their shortening

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Speaker 2: their supervision and getting better results.

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Speaker 1: It's ironic the liberal states are refusing to put people

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Speaker 1: in jail, and so they put violent criminals back on

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Speaker 1: the street. The conservative states put people in jail, but

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Speaker 1: then if they behave correctly, they get them out of jail.

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Speaker 1: It's the opposite of all you would think. And it

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Speaker 1: turns out that the liberal approach to not pay attention

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Speaker 1: to criminals, like New York, to have no bail, to

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Speaker 1: allow people back on the street for the twenty fifth

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Speaker 1: or thirtieth time, that model doesn't work. But a model

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Speaker 1: that says we are going to lock you up, you

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Speaker 1: are going to serve your time, but then we're going

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Speaker 1: to help you re enter society seems to have a

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Speaker 1: pretty dramatically different effect.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and mister speaker, I could not say it better.

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Speaker 2: I think your voice is so important on this. But

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Speaker 2: you and others who understand that. But there's a role

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Speaker 2: of redemption in the criminal justice system that's been lost

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Speaker 2: in a lot of areas, and especially lost and are

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Speaker 2: blue left, you know, liberal cities. They believe there should

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Speaker 2: not be any accountability, and so if there's no accountability,

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Speaker 2: you never have to think about redemption. But there should

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Speaker 2: be accountability and people should be unnoticed that we don't

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Speaker 2: allow law breakers in this country, but we will provide

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Speaker 2: you to move beyond your worst day or your worst

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Speaker 2: decisions if you'll apply yourself and we give them opportunities.

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Speaker 2: If you don't give them those opportunities, then there's no redemption.

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Speaker 2: And I'm fascinated by things like Boston. Right now, in Boston,

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Speaker 2: they've only had two homicides. That is such a large,

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Speaker 2: major city. It's eighty two percent down from where it

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Speaker 2: was just a couple of years ago.

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Speaker 1: What seems to have done that.

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Speaker 2: I've been digging into it, and they're taking a faith

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Speaker 2: based approach. They're using members of the community and faith

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Speaker 2: based membership to actually intervene with their juveniles, to step

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Speaker 2: in let them know they know about some crimes that

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Speaker 2: they've committed, and if they don't change their ways, then

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Speaker 2: they will pursue them. And so they're almost giving them

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Speaker 2: a form of redemption prior to and they're noticing that

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Speaker 2: these crimes are going down. I contrast that to what

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Speaker 2: we see in New York and Chicago and other areas

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Speaker 2: where they don't want to arrest anyone. And I think

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Speaker 2: to myself, that truly is the definition of insanity at

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Speaker 2: play right before our eyes. They're doing the same thing

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Speaker 2: that they've been doing, and they're expecting different results. The

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Speaker 2: violence is rising and they're not redeeming any.

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Speaker 3: Of their youth.

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Speaker 1: Hi campaigned with Juliani back when he ran for mayor,

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Speaker 1: and he took a city which had an enormous murder

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Speaker 1: rate and lowered it every single year and ultimately created

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Speaker 1: one of the safest cities in the world. And we

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Speaker 1: knew how to do it. Mayor Bloomberg came along, sustained

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Speaker 1: the Giuliani policies. They continued to work. The murder rate

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Speaker 1: continued to decline, and then liberals took over and within

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Speaker 1: three years they had gotten rid of every single thing

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Speaker 1: which worked, and the crime rate went back up. The

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Speaker 1: city got to be worse. You got to be more, frankly,

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Speaker 1: much less safe. It's sort of like you try to

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Speaker 1: teach children it's okay to touch the stove once, but

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Speaker 1: you ought to learn that it's hot, and these folks

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Speaker 1: they don't seem capable of learning.

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Speaker 2: I think that's a perfect historical reference that is really tragic,

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Speaker 2: and so much credit is deserved by Mayor Giuliani. And

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Speaker 2: he was a former US attorney and he was a

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Speaker 2: federal prosecutor, and there's many of us out there that

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Speaker 2: have realized we want to be tough on crime. We

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Speaker 2: should be tough on crime as a country. But if

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Speaker 2: that doesn't mean lowering your crime rates and reducing your recidivism,

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Speaker 2: then you're not really tough on. To me, it's another

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Speaker 2: chapter of the weaponization of our justice system. What's happening

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Speaker 2: in these liberal cities, because what they're saying is, because

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Speaker 2: it's politically expedient, I'm going to send out a message

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Speaker 2: to my community, for example in San Francisco, We're not

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Speaker 2: going to prosecute these certain types of crimes. And once

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Speaker 2: they send that out, boom, all of a sudden, massive

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Speaker 2: rise in those types of crimes, and the population is

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Speaker 2: getting tired of it. The people that it hurts the most, though,

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Speaker 2: are our minority communities, are poorer communities, And that to

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Speaker 2: me is the weaponization of the justice system on a

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Speaker 2: macro level across this country that I sure hope that

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Speaker 2: we're going to reverse. And I'm starting to see some

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Speaker 2: reversals because even some on the left are saying, hey,

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Speaker 2: this is outrageous, we need to stop it.

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Speaker 1: When the really radical Marxist district attorney in San Francisco

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Speaker 1: became unacceptable. They recalled him with over sixty percent of

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Speaker 1: the vote. You could never have imagined that happening in

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Speaker 1: San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. I wish it would have in

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Speaker 2: a few more places.

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Speaker 3: I agree.

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Speaker 1: The federal system still has some significant problems in having

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Speaker 1: a system of supervision that isn't working and is actually

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Speaker 1: increasing the rate of people going back to jail. And

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Speaker 1: there is a Safer Supervision Act which is now in Congress.

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Speaker 1: Could you talk a little bit about it, because I

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Speaker 1: think it's a very important concept.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a remarkable piece, a Safer Supervision Act. There's

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Speaker 2: Bi Parson sponsorship on both the House and the Senate.

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Speaker 2: I mean you have Senator Lee and Senator Cornyan and

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Speaker 2: Senator Coons that are leading the effort. I think Senator

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Speaker 2: Grassley will be a champion of it and a leader

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Speaker 2: of it as well. And then in the House you

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Speaker 2: have Wesley Hunt and Byron Donald's. Why would they be

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Speaker 2: wanting to change criminal justicystem. It's because they absolutely know

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Speaker 2: that you can make improvements and not compromise public safety

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Speaker 2: and the improvements here. What this would do is it

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Speaker 2: says if you get out of prison, if you get

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Speaker 2: a job, and you do what you're supposed to do,

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Speaker 2: and you've served half of your supervision, which is about

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Speaker 2: two years, then we'll give you a presumption you can

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Speaker 2: get off your supervision. And it's interesting, mister speaker, because

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Speaker 2: it's law enforcement that actually brought this to our attention.

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Speaker 2: It's the federal law enforcement officers who said, you know what,

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Speaker 2: we're having to expend an enormous amount of our budget

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Speaker 2: supervising everyone when there are individuals that we know we

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Speaker 2: don't have to supervise that could be off supervision and

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Speaker 2: we could focus on the more dangerous. So we think

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Speaker 2: this bill will actually improve public safety.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, there's a classic case that someone brought

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Speaker 1: to my attention about dan Niel Lynn Brown, who almost

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Speaker 1: two decades ago, was convicted of drug charges. He served

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Speaker 1: fifteen years and was released under the First Step Act,

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Speaker 1: which President Donald Trump signed into law. He was placed

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Speaker 1: on a ten year of federal supervision, which began in

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Speaker 1: April of twenty twenty. Nearly four years later, Brown has

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Speaker 1: committed zero violations. He's also maintained full time employment as

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Speaker 1: a project manager at a construction company, purchased two homes,

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Speaker 1: and been a devoted father to his five children, but

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Speaker 1: he's still under federal supervision. He's not allowed to travel

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Speaker 1: without approval from his probation officer, which has led him

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Speaker 1: to turn down numerous work opportunities, including what he called

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Speaker 1: a dream job helping ex prisoners turn their lives around,

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Speaker 1: random drug testing and check INDs, with his probation officer

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Speaker 1: taking him away from work and family obligations, even though

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Speaker 1: he poses no public safety risk, Brown remains trapped in

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Speaker 1: an ever expanding government bureaucracy. But under this proposed Safer

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Speaker 1: Supervision Act, he would have a clear path off of supervision.

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Speaker 1: At the halfway point of his term, he would receive

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Speaker 1: guidance on how to request early termination, whether he qualified

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Speaker 1: for presumptive early termination based on his good conduct and compliance,

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Speaker 1: the factors weighed by the court, and the ability to

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Speaker 1: request legal council needed. So you can see in this

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Speaker 1: one human case, how big a difference that the Safer

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Speaker 1: Supervision Act could create. And in your judgment, is this

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Speaker 1: the right direction for the country.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a perfect example. Now people come

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Speaker 2: back and they say, well, what about the ones that

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Speaker 2: are really violent? Well, the Safer Supervision Act carves out

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Speaker 2: the exceptions for individuals who are violent, or individuals who

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Speaker 2: need lengthy supervision, those that have victimized children, for example.

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Speaker 2: So this will really get at the heart. And if

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Speaker 2: you ask any prosecutor like myself who spent almost a

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Speaker 2: decade as a federal prosecut or, I did well over

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Speaker 2: a thousand felony cases, I can tell you I know

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Speaker 2: every single one of those defendants that could have taken

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Speaker 2: advantage of this, and I would predict, you know, zero

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Speaker 2: recidivism on many, many, many of those and every prosecutor

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Speaker 2: knows who they are, knows that they wouldn't need to

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Speaker 2: be supervised for three, five, seven, ten years, which is

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Speaker 2: what happens. So it is the right direction because and

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Speaker 2: the First Step AAC proved it. Those that have been

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Speaker 2: receiving programming under the First Step Act. The federal recidivism

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Speaker 2: statistic right now general is forty six percent recidivism rate

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Speaker 2: in the federal system, but under this first step back

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Speaker 2: it falls below ten percent. That is phenomenal. It teaches

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Speaker 2: us that in giving them the right programming, giving them

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Speaker 2: incentive to better themselves actually works.

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Speaker 1: Think about that at a human level. Not only is

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Speaker 1: this saving money for the taxpayer, but that's an enormous

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Speaker 1: number of people who are real acquiring the right to

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Speaker 1: be a free American in a way that is healthy

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Speaker 1: for the whole country. And I think that out of

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Speaker 1: that whole long term effort that Right on Crime really

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Speaker 1: emerged as a national campaign of the Texas Public Policy Foundation.

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Speaker 1: Can you take just a minute first and tell us

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Speaker 1: about the Texas Public Policy Foundation, which I've worked with

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Speaker 1: for I think two decades and is an astonishing institution

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Speaker 1: in general, and then let's talk a little bit about

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Speaker 1: Right on Crime.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, it's one of the high points of my career,

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Speaker 2: my long career working in the criminal justice system, to

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Speaker 2: work with the Texas Public Policy Foundation. This is men

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Speaker 2: and women of incredible faith and intelligence and work ethic

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Speaker 2: that really just want a better place for their families

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Speaker 2: and for the communities across this country, and so they

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Speaker 2: get involved in all the big issues. But about fifteen

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Speaker 2: years ago they started an organization called Right on Crime.

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Speaker 2: And they started that because they started to recognize that

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Speaker 2: we could make policy changes, we could start to redeem people.

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Speaker 2: And so they started out very humble in a few

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Speaker 2: states and working on a few issues, and then they

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Speaker 2: started working on the national issues like the First Step Act,

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Speaker 2: when I was persuaded by a very persuasive text and

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Speaker 2: to take the helm of right on crime. We've now

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Speaker 2: gone from five states that were in fifteen states. Now

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Speaker 2: we are growing and expanding, and the reason is that

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Speaker 2: we are an organization that can make changes to the

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Speaker 2: criminal justice system without forgetting victims of crime and without

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Speaker 2: compromising public safety. And it's interesting, mister Speaker, we're now

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Speaker 2: seeing I'm getting members of Congress calling me or reaching

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Speaker 2: out and texting me weekly. I'm getting governors across the

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Speaker 2: country that they want to know what are our thoughts,

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Speaker 2: what changes can be made so that we can better

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Speaker 2: our criminal justice system. And it's not just the system

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Speaker 2: we're trying to make better. We're trying to do as

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Speaker 2: you outlined, we're trying to save families. Ninety five percent

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Speaker 2: of everyone that is incarcerated gets out of prison, and

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Speaker 2: we've forgotten that they get out and they've been in

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Speaker 2: worse shape most of the time when they get out

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Speaker 2: than when they went in, and so they recommit crimes

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Speaker 2: and we can do better. We can make them better

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Speaker 2: and part of our community by using faith, by using

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Speaker 2: education and training and really remembering that that's our obligation

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Speaker 2: as brothers and sisters on this earth.

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Speaker 1: We know when Chuck ultimately we're tired and then passed away.

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Speaker 1: Pat Nolan, who himself had ended up in prison as

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Speaker 1: an Assembly leader in California, picked up the flag. And

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Speaker 1: I've worked closely with Pat, and part of the reason

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Speaker 1: is the human side. The more people we can help

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Speaker 1: continue to lead a full life, the better. It's stunning

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Speaker 1: to realize that prison systems today cost the States over

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Speaker 1: fifty billion dollars a year, which is up from eleven

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Speaker 1: billion in the mid nineteen eighties. Prisons have been the

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Speaker 1: second fastest growing area of state budgets, trailing only Medicaid,

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Speaker 1: and consumes one in every fourteen general fund dollars. So

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Speaker 1: there's both a practical taxpayer conservative reason to do this,

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Speaker 1: and there's an extraordinarily powerful human reason to do this.

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Speaker 1: And I think that it's really important for us to

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Speaker 1: recognize both sides of that. And I think that the

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Speaker 1: kind of things that you're doing really make the case

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Speaker 1: for a conservative criminal justice reform.

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Speaker 2: And thank you for that in pointing out we have

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Speaker 2: so much work to do, but think about this. One

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Speaker 2: in three Americans has a criminal record now that's one

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Speaker 2: in three you have a criminal record. You know, we

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Speaker 2: went from during the Reagan years there were roughly four

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Speaker 2: to five thousand criminal statutes. There's now well over three

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Speaker 2: hundred thousand criminal statutes and regulations with criminal penalties. And

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Speaker 2: so we give all this money to the criminal justice system,

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Speaker 2: and there is no accountability and virtually no transparency. We

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Speaker 2: need to start holding our criminal justice system accountable so

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Speaker 2: that we can save the fabrics of our community, these individuals.

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Speaker 2: And if we're getting one in three right now with

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Speaker 2: criminal history, that means we need to do better. We

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Speaker 2: can do better, and I want Conservatives to lead on it.

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Speaker 1: I had worked with Pat Nolan, with Van Jones, and

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Speaker 1: we organized in the Obama years a national conference on

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Speaker 1: criminal justice reform. And to my delight, my home state

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Speaker 1: governor from Georgia, Governor Nathan Deal, gave the keynoted his

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Speaker 1: son had become a drug judge in Georgia and from

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Speaker 1: his experience in the courts, he said to his father,

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Speaker 1: We're gone about this the wrong way. We're taking people

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Speaker 1: who could be saved and who could spend the rest

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Speaker 1: of their life as good citizens, taking care of their family, working,

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Speaker 1: being taxpayers, and the way we mishandle it, we are

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Speaker 1: now turning them into being isolated from the society and

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Speaker 1: having no future and being a constant drain on the

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Speaker 1: taxpayer while breaking up their ability to take care of

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Speaker 1: and relate to their family. And I was so proud

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Speaker 1: of Nathan Deal for this speech, which I am sure

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Speaker 1: from the standpoint of a typical national liberal was a

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Speaker 1: great shock because here you had this very solid conservative

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Speaker 1: Georgia Republican making the case for compassion, for an intelligent

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Speaker 1: approach for real reform. And I think that's how we

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Speaker 1: have to approach this. And I think that one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons I was so excited to have you join

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Speaker 1: me to talk about this is that I think that

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Speaker 1: right on crime is one of the most important from

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Speaker 1: a human standpoint. The number of lives you will help

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Speaker 1: save is so dramatic that it's really a big deal.

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Speaker 1: That people need to realize that they should contact their

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Speaker 1: House and Senate member and should encourage them to be

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Speaker 1: actively involved and to help pass the Safer Supervision Act.

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Speaker 1: But in addition, they should check in with their state

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Speaker 1: legislators and with their governor and see how their state

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Speaker 1: is dealing with prisoners as they get out, and whether

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Speaker 1: we are maximizing the chance for them to have good

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Speaker 1: lives or we are, in fact putting ourselves in a

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Speaker 1: position where they're going to go right back to jail

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Speaker 1: and continue to be a burden on society. So I

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Speaker 1: think what you're doing is really really important, and I

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Speaker 1: think it's a very important topic for all Amricans to

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Speaker 1: be involved in.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you, mister speaker. I couldn't have said it better.

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Speaker 2: And I loved watching you, know, your powerful voice and

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Speaker 2: your thoughts on it. And it really takes leaders like yourselves.

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Speaker 2: And you know, I remember Doug Collins and some of

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Speaker 2: the effort that he made, and I now look at

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Speaker 2: Governor Stitt in Oklahoma who said we're going to make

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Speaker 2: changes and we're going to fix this broken criminal justice system,

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Speaker 2: and that to me is heartening because we can comfort ourselves.

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Speaker 2: The politicians, legislators can comfort themselves and pass longer mandatory

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Speaker 2: minimums and think that they're doing something, but in reality,

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Speaker 2: they're not reducing crime, they're not reducing recidivism, and they're

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Speaker 2: certainly not redeeming members of our community. And so let's

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Speaker 2: do that. Let's let the conservatives lead, So we don't

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Speaker 2: have bad policies like no bail and no prosecution prosecutors

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Speaker 2: out there. Let's punish criminals, but let's also save human

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Speaker 2: beings well.

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Speaker 1: And if people come to your site right on crime

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Speaker 1: dot Com, learn what you're doing, they can learn about

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Speaker 1: the kind of practical, common sense, proven to work reforms

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Speaker 1: that they can then take to their state, make sure

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Speaker 1: that their state gets in line too, and we could,

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Speaker 1: over the next few years, have a genuine revolution that

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Speaker 1: saves lives, saves families, gives us healthy citizens who've learned

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Speaker 1: their lesson and who are committed to spending the rest

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Speaker 1: of their life being a part of our community in

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Speaker 1: a way that is so much better than the kind

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Speaker 1: of prison centric model that we currently have that's today.

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Speaker 2: I hope they will come to the website right on

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Speaker 2: crime dot com and they'll start to see that it

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Speaker 2: sometimes it doesn't have to be monumental. It doesn't have

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Speaker 2: to be a first step back that gets past. In

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Speaker 2: one jurisdiction, we simply got the prisons to change one policy,

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Speaker 2: one simple policy, and that was to allow individuals that

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Speaker 2: are incarcerated longer phone privileges to talk to their family

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Speaker 2: to reduce recidivism immediately. So sometimes it's the simplest changes

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Speaker 2: that can be made that can improve it. And that's

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Speaker 2: what we look for is good, solid, conservative best practices

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Speaker 2: that are proven to help the criminal just system improve.

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Speaker 1: At Right on Crime, you have fourteen policy analysts, researchers

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Speaker 1: and legal experts who are working on these things, and

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Speaker 1: you've actually been active already in thirty eight states, so

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Speaker 1: people can turn to you as a real resource in

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Speaker 1: helping them ensure that their stite does the right thing

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Speaker 1: by their citizens and the right thing both for safety

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Speaker 1: and for reintegrating people back to have a full life.

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Speaker 3: Yep, perfectly said Brett.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you for joining me. The work

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Speaker 1: you and your team at Right on Crime are doing

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Speaker 1: is really amazing, and I want to encourage our listeners

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Speaker 1: to learn more about Right on Crime and your efforts

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Speaker 1: by visiting your website at rightoncrime dot com.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, mister speaker, Thank.

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Speaker 1: You to my guests. Brett Tolman. You can learn more

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Speaker 1: about his organization Right on Crime on our show page

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Speaker 1: at newtsworld dot com. Newtsworld is produced by Gingers three

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Speaker 1: sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our

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Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was

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Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at

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Speaker 1: Gingrid three sixty. If you've been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope

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Speaker 1: you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us with

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Speaker 1: five stars and give us a review so others can

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Speaker 1: learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of Newtsworld

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Speaker 1: can sign up for my three free weekly columns at

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Speaker 1: gingisthree sixty dot com slash newsletter. I am Newt Gingrich.

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Speaker 3: This is newts world

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Speaker 2: Y