1 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: When we start ranking kids in terms of anything, whether 2 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: it's skills, trends, or speed pre puberty early adolescents, we're 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: really doing ourselves a disservice because we're chasing kids out 4 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: of sport. I argue you will win when you develop 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: all your players. You might not win in the short term, 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: but don't let short terms here dictate your choices and behaviors. 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: This is the Reformed Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: education and advocacy. Hi. This is Nick Bonacoort from the 10 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: Reformed Sports Project podcast. I'm thrilled to have doctor Amanda 11 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: Stanic on the pot today with the Masters of Science 12 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: with an emphasis in physical education and sports psychology and 13 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,159 Speaker 1: a PhD in kinesiology. Dr Stanek has published numerous articles, 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: co authored several book chapters, and worked with many leading 15 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: American and Canadian organizations on physical education, sport, health and 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 1: wellness programs. She is the founder and leader of Move Live, Learned, 17 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: which researches, creates, and helps implement these programs in schools, 18 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: sports organizations, and health groups. We dive in the late 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,119 Speaker 1: Bloomers age appropriateness youth sports retention and why we need 20 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: to reform youth sports to better mirror our education system. 21 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm absolutely ecstatic. I have another amazing gas. There's so 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: many like names. She has a doctor, she's a coach, 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: the mother, she's all these things. She's a stud athlete 24 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: in her day as well. She told me not to 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: call her doctor, so I'm not gonna really tickle to 26 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: have her, Amanda standing, Amana, thank you so much for 27 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: hopping on. Oh Nick, it's my pleasure. Thank you so 28 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: much for the gift of your time. Oh my god, 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: thank you. I appreciate you so Listen. I've been following 30 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: your work and I've seen a lot of the activity 31 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: and stuff and your passion on social media. That's how 32 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: we connected, and we share a passion in particular youth sports. 33 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: I am a big supporter and advocate for making sure 34 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: or keeping an eye on late bloomers. And reason why 35 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: I probably is I had a late birthday myself. I 36 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: graduated high school was seventeen, and I had a major 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: jump physically and emotionally when I got to college, you know, 38 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: and I remember being on the baseball field, Amanda. Um 39 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: when that field goes from the little field and all 40 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: of a sudden, it's a big field, and my body 41 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: stayed little, you know, it stayed little, and I was 42 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: a catcher and I couldn't reach second base trying to 43 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: throw people out, and that was It was tough to 44 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: deal with when you're starting to go through puberty and 45 00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: all these things. But it's very easy in this day 46 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: and age today, where you know, people kind of let 47 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,200 Speaker 1: those kids who are lay bloomers kind of at times, 48 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: they kind of fall by the wayside. You know, coaches 49 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: want to work with the more highly skilled kids. There's 50 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: many reasons for that. Can you talk about your experience 51 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: and that I know this is something that you're very 52 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: passionate about. Yeah, I think, you know, I'm a teacher 53 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:42,079 Speaker 1: in my heart, I'm a trained teacher, and I think 54 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: that when we start ranking kids in terms of anything, 55 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: whether it's skills, trends, or speed, pre puberty, early adolescents, 56 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: we're really doing ourselves a disservice because we're chasing kids 57 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: out of sport. Um. I think when you are picking teams, 58 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: if a kid makes a team, then kids should get 59 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: really close to equal playing time. And a lot of people, 60 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: especially in the soccer culture, say minimum that's good, but 61 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: if others you're getting I pushed them back, and I say, 62 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: why should other kids get almost twice as much time 63 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: if they all are on that team? And I love 64 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: this analogy. Let's say you know you have two kids 65 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: in grade four, right, they're ten years old, and you're 66 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: going to give them both a math test. And you 67 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: say to one kid, you say, hey, Johnny, you have 68 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: ten minutes to do this math test. All your friends 69 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: are going to be watching, and all the parents are 70 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: gonna be watching, and you have ten minutes and you 71 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: have to get it completely right. And you say to Susie, 72 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: you have fifty minutes to get it right, and everyone's watching, 73 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: and you know, you can check your notes, you can 74 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: check your work over, you can correct mistakes you might find, 75 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: you can ask for help. Do you have fifty minutes 76 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: to get right? And oh, Johnny, if you're not perfect tomorrow, 77 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: you only get five minutes. And Susie, if you have 78 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: everything right tomorrow you get you get fifty five minutes. 79 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: We would think that's insane, right, Like you're as a parent, 80 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: like if that was happening in our child's math class, Like, right, 81 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: you think that was saying I mean, no question, but yeah, 82 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: in youth sport, if you put those kids on a 83 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: soccer team and you see that, like people will just 84 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: if they will try to justify those actions, right, they'll say, 85 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,679 Speaker 1: with Susie's faster, Like I don't care that Susie's faster. 86 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: If I can't remember Johnny, Johnny made the team too, 87 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: then he should have the because now Johnny's playing out 88 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: of fear. When he does that math tests the next day, 89 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: he's now scared. Right, everyone saw him. He's a little embarrassed. 90 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: He didn't get as much time, and he wasn't able 91 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: to perform his best because he had this crazy time 92 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,280 Speaker 1: constraint and this expectation to be perfect at ten. And 93 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: so we would never do these things in education and 94 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: and and I don't know how and where we lost 95 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: our way to try to justify that in sport. But 96 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: it's just foolish because we don't know that the child 97 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: whose excellent sport at ten is going to be excellent 98 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: at fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, Well, you know you're talking about 99 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: obviously pre puberty, so you're saying eleven and under right 100 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: or even you Oh, I mean that was just the example. 101 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: I gave. But I mean I would argue, like I've 102 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: been your podcast a few weeks ago was so fun 103 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: and what I was kind of holding my breath for 104 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: the first thirteen or fourteen minutes of Anson doriance. I 105 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: was so excited, as former soccer players, so excited to 106 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 1: hear his podcast. And then when he even said, never 107 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: do any of this until you know their fourteen fifteen 108 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: O d P level. So so that's not even club level, right, 109 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 1: that's like regional best of the best in club level. 110 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: So even the best, the most successful soccer coach like 111 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: in the country, like in the history, he develops every 112 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: player on his roster because he knows they're not done developing. 113 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: So why don't we do it at age eleven, twelve, thirteen, 114 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 1: fourteen fifteen when we know they're nowhere near finished developing? 115 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:46,239 Speaker 1: And why are we so like set in defending that action. 116 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: You know, I have full understanding of adolescent psychology right well, 117 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: and I think that's such an incredible point. The problem 118 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 1: is because I agree with you, and I I've coached 119 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: and in five six, seven years ago, I thought, you know, 120 00:05:57,120 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: I used to think that you know never about playing time, 121 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: particularly when it came to that. But I always thought, um, why, 122 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: for instance, baseball, this is the way I used to 123 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: think before I kind of really coached for a little while. 124 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, wait a minute, that's not the right way 125 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: to do it. I want to put the best players, 126 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 1: are the best athletes at the most skilled position. Why 127 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: it gives the chance to win Now, I would also 128 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: at the same time, and I can't agree with this. 129 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: Sometimes in baseball, in particular, you can put a kid 130 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: out of position where it could increase his odds of 131 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: getting hurt because a ball gets hit hard. But at 132 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: the same time, I'm like, I have to pick and chooses. 133 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 1: But I remember coaching six, seven, eight years ago, and 134 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: you know, kid keeps getting stuck out in the outfield, 135 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: and the outfield when you're seven, eight nine, there's not 136 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: much activity. There's just not that happens out there. And 137 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: I think back on it, and I think there could 138 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: be And I think a lot of people struggle with this, coaches, 139 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: especially when you're getting paid. Um, there's an element of 140 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: parents want to be on winning teams. So how do 141 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: you juggle that? You know, if that's my livelihood and 142 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: I'm speaking Devil's advocates, I agree with everything you're saying 143 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: because I get I started coaching my kids again here 144 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,279 Speaker 1: um in baseball. This has fall in spring, and I 145 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: don't care whatsoever. I mean, I want these kids to 146 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,600 Speaker 1: learn how to compete and all that, but I don't listen. 147 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: We're gonna try to do our best to win, but 148 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 1: I don't care. I'm not gonna You know, it's not 149 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: the important thing at those ages, but people pay, they 150 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: want to win. How do you juggle that with playing 151 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: time and what you're talking about because it is a 152 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: business today. Well, I think there's a couple of things. 153 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: I mean, I am really tired of on and foreign 154 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: parents making decisions that affect everybody's kids. You know, that's 155 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: maybe another story. But you educate them a little bit 156 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: and you say the other pieces. I argue, you will 157 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: win when you develop all your players. You might not 158 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: win in the short term, but don't let short terms 159 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: hear dictate your choices and behaviors. What will happen is 160 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: like right now, like the child in the outfield all 161 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: the time at that age, they don't get the same 162 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: opportunity to develop their skills. So instead of strengthening your depth, 163 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: you're making your you're taking your depth away. And then 164 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: in in other team sports, in field sports, you're creating 165 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: a culture of fear for theids like little Johnny, who 166 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: only have so much time to prove themselves, so there's 167 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: no way they can perform to their potential. And then 168 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: you're also when you have like not I talk a 169 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: lot about age appropriateness, right, they're not psychologically mature enough 170 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: to understand this idea of being a quote unquote role player. 171 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 1: It's fine for a college coach to talk that way. 172 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: There's no business in youth sport. These are these are kids. 173 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: And I would tell the parents about the black box 174 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 1: of puberty, and I showed them the data that a 175 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 1: surprising amount of early developers who were who were strong 176 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: and fast, they quit the second there ever met with 177 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: any adversity because they were always told they're perfect and 178 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: played every minute of every game. Right. And then you 179 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: lose the kids that never get to play and they 180 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: haven't developed yet. You have no idea how much potential 181 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,080 Speaker 1: they have. And you're lucky to hold on to this 182 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: middle group who aren't the early developers, but they got 183 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: enough time that they were able to develop and they 184 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: didn't have to be the quote Prima Donna, and they 185 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 1: stuck with it, and so your talent pool is decreased 186 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: by a ton. And so I just explain all that 187 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: to parents, like, you know, my kids didn't want to 188 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: wear a seatbelt when they were little, But that doesn't 189 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: mean I didn't make them wear a seatbelt because they 190 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: didn't want to. So if a parent wants to win, 191 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: first of all, question why, Like the purpose that kids 192 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: play sport, The research is clear and profound. It's to 193 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: have fun. The number one reason why they quit sport 194 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: is fun. And you'll have Cinderella story teams that will 195 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: win when they don't have talent as much talent and 196 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: I just have to put a plug in. I had 197 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: two nephews who played on this major midget hockey team 198 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 1: in Northeast Nova Scoasta where I'm from, the Kate Breton 199 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: West Islanders, and they won the national championship in Canada 200 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: was called the Teleis Cup. Well, teams from Toronto had 201 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: more people try out for the goalie position. Then my 202 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,319 Speaker 1: nephew's team had China for the whole team. I was 203 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: gonna say, that's gonna be an amazing accomplishment in Canada 204 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: to win that level. Yeah, it was televised live on 205 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: T s N. I think I paid fifty bucks here 206 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: in St. Louis to get it and watch it, and 207 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: it was like something out of the movies. It didn't 208 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: hurt that Colton Melis or goalie is now drafted by 209 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: the Blues. He's exceptional and these boys are all twenties now. 210 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: And I talked to him, one of my nephews about 211 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: this a few weeks ago. He's a confidence is king 212 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 1: aunt Amanda, and he's like, we won that. He's like, 213 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: it was still the best team I was ever a 214 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: part of. You played three years in major junior hockey 215 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: in Canada, which is a big deal. He's going on 216 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: to play college Canada up there. He's like, everyone on 217 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 1: our team got a chance, equal chance to go out there, 218 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:23,719 Speaker 1: and we all believed in each other and no one 219 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: was going to beat us. We had no business even 220 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: being there, you know. And so I say, you want 221 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 1: to win. We might take our lumps early on, but 222 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: if you stick with this process, we're following the research. 223 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: We're doing. What's bester kids were fostering a culture of 224 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: joy and you watch the championships. We win, maybe not 225 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 1: at eight nine and ten. But we'll watch him when 226 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: it's that much more look at them when it's even 227 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 1: more special. You know, I feel like I could go 228 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 1: for a run right now. I really know what I'm 229 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: listening to you, and you're you're getting me excited because 230 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: I I lived that. You know, I lived that when 231 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: I was you know, younger, we didn't win that much. 232 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: And then I was a sophomore in high school. We 233 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: had a bunch of sophomore is that we're starting. I 234 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: was one of them. We went three and seventeen. Then 235 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: we turned around. We go twelve and eight the following year, 236 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: the next year, my senior. We want to stay title 237 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: when we're all seniors. We played for all those years. 238 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: But I hear you and I talk about long term, 239 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: and I totally agree, like if you develop everyone in 240 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: the long term, you're going to be better. But I 241 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: I can specifically think of situations where I've talked to 242 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: friends of mine who are calling me venting about how 243 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: you know, they're on this travel team and the coaches 244 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,440 Speaker 1: playing this kid who doesn't even belong on the team, 245 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: and they're all paying the same amount of money, and 246 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 1: I'm going, man, this is a tough thing to navigate 247 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: at times, you know it is. And here's the thing 248 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: that you talk about. People are making a living. And 249 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: what do you say to that. I say, if you're 250 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: making a living that involves dealing kids joy from movement, 251 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: like you need to really look in the mirror, you know. 252 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: I just don't get it. Like in education, it's about 253 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:51,839 Speaker 1: building up every kid to feel empowered and inspired to 254 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: seem critically about what they learned in the world around them. Right, 255 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: why would we not want to do? You know what's 256 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: parallel in sport, we have take an adult version of 257 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 1: sport and stuck it on kids, and and and and 258 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: we're running kids out of the opportunity to just love movement. 259 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: My husband, I would be kind of joke, like we 260 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 1: were both fortunate enough to get to play sports in college, 261 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: and people kind of look at me funny in the 262 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,559 Speaker 1: game because I cheer on like both teams, because I'm 263 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: that mom, you know, and everything I only say like great, hustle, great, 264 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 1: save honey, and the kids they're twelve, and they look 265 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: at me and they freaking smile. And then the crazy 266 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: thing his parents will be seeing to me leaving thank 267 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: you for cheering for my kids. I mean, and we've 268 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: really at that point now where we we think that's special. 269 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: I mean that shouldn't be special their children, they're being courageous. 270 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: So I like to say, we pick our own physical 271 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: activityh goals, even at forty five years old, and that's 272 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: where we go be like we want to compete and 273 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: wind and let's go like we're gonna go win ourselves 274 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: in our age group and like the old people age 275 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: group at the local five k. You know, if we 276 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 1: want to compete, we compete. But we don't we don't 277 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: treat our kids like little adults and try to rewrite 278 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: our sports story on our children who are learning. So 279 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: I really believe that if you develop everyone, and I say, 280 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: don't overemphasize those who are more skilled, don't over emphasize 281 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: your favorite those who are faster and stronger. Pre puberty, 282 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 1: we don't know what's going to happen. Pick your team, 283 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: pick your team based on skill. I'm I'm totally cool 284 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: with that. That's appropriate. Kids are motivated to learn and 285 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 1: drive and physicalect to the environments when they have approximate successory, right, 286 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: So we don't want them playing on a team they 287 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: they are not ready for and we don't want them 288 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: playing on a team that they totally dominate in their 289 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: heads and tails better than everybody else. But once they're 290 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: on the team, once the teams have been picked, and 291 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:40,599 Speaker 1: people agree these are a reasonable group of kids to 292 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: be together, develop all of them equally, Yes, equally, like 293 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: within five to ten of equal playing time. That's my 294 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: that's what I preach. Not that anyone's listening, they're caring, 295 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: but I'm really excited that, you know, maybe you can 296 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: help get the message out there. Nick, Well, you know, 297 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: first of all, you Yeah, I love when i'm speaking 298 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: in the people who have passion, and clearly you do. 299 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: Um And what I often talk about and I think 300 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: is so vital because clearly you're a competitive person. I 301 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: would imagine you're you like to compete in many areas 302 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: of life. Now people misconstrue, and I would love for 303 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: you to talk about this. If you can't people automatically 304 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: tie results with competing, you know, like I think people 305 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: think you didn't compete, well if you lost, Like that's 306 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: not necessarily true at all, Like, no, it's not. You 307 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: can win and not compete. Well, can you talk about 308 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: real quick how you can teach kids or do you 309 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: believe you can teach kids how to be great competitors 310 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 1: without having the emphasis on winning and losing. And this 311 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: is why I don't like to win. People who are 312 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: quote unquote look more competitive at younger ages are really 313 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: given advantage by coaches in terms of playing time because 314 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: it is something you can teach. But it doesn't like 315 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: Some kids aren't raised to be number one summer, raised 316 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,240 Speaker 1: to be kind, right, and so it might take them 317 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:59,040 Speaker 1: a while to understand what competition looks like. But you 318 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: can absolutely teach it in a joyful environment and teaching 319 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: them that giving your best is competing, Giving your best 320 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: to every play, giving your best as a teammate, giving 321 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: your best as a student, as a member of the family. 322 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 1: Those are ways that you can reach and thrive towards 323 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: your potential. Always making choices that set you up for 324 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: that is competing, and it can be and it should 325 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: be joyful. Competing shouldn't be fear based. Then we can 326 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: we have kids not trying things. You know, coaches should 327 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: be like audibly celebrating a kid that try something new 328 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: and totally screws it up, right, but they should be 329 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: celebrating it in front of the whole team, so everyone 330 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: can know that coach was like, that was brave, that 331 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: was awesome. Next time you're going to nail it. So 332 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: it is something that you have I think in many ways, 333 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 1: you absolutely have to teach it. And winning can be 334 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: defined as reaching your goals as an individual and as 335 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: a team. It can be defined as doing better than 336 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: you've ever done before. It can be defined as improving. 337 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: It can be defined as like meeting little goals that 338 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: you had for certain opponent. But if you put it 339 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: on wins and losses, that's just really dumb because you 340 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: can't control the other team. You can't control the official, 341 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,200 Speaker 1: you can't control the weather, so you just you can't 342 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: control who's in quarantine. But you can't control those things, 343 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: so you're setting yourself up for just unrealistic expectations when 344 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: you start setting those things up. And I am really 345 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: passionate about it. I mean, I spent twelve years in 346 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: university studying this because I was so curious, and I 347 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 1: think that we have so many well intended people serving 348 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: their communities. I'm not like the critic who counts in 349 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: many ways, but it's about educating these wonderful volunteers. It's 350 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: not about shaming them. It's about having courageous conversations, really 351 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: good coaching education. And I believe it was someone maybe 352 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 1: on your pet podcast, but I've always said this and 353 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: believe it to be true. If you're teaching, you were 354 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 1: talking about your seven eight year olds playing baseball, that 355 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: coach shouldn't be like looking up high school baseball coaches 356 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: or college coaches for suggestions. They should be finding the 357 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,280 Speaker 1: favorite teacher in the local elementary school who teaches first 358 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: and second grade, buying them a coffee and find out, like, 359 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: what do you do that makes these kids love coming 360 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: to school every day and learning from the local teacher 361 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: of how to create a community where they work together. 362 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: You know, team sport right now is being destroyed. I 363 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: feel like because everyone's out for themselves. Well, if we 364 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: put our kids in team sports to learn how to 365 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: work with others and you're always trying to box someone 366 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: out because you're scared their kids going to get ahead, 367 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,199 Speaker 1: I mean, that's really messed up. It's really messed up. 368 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: And the other thing that's a little messed up is 369 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 1: how often people want to talk about like kids skill 370 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: level in sport. You know, it's like, oh, that's so 371 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: and so he's really fast. That's so and so she 372 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: can really do this. Well, I'm like, are they kind 373 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: like like why why is it that we talk about 374 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: those things so much? Like sport? I mean, I love 375 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: it because it's joyful and it's funny and I you know, 376 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: you mess up and you get back up, and then 377 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: it feels better when you do it right the second time. 378 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 1: That's what kids need to learn. They they're not going 379 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 1: to learn that if they're scared, if they're going to 380 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: get on the field when they're prepu essence or in 381 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: the middle of adolescence. It's just I have people emailing me, 382 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: calling me at least ten fifteen people a week asking 383 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: for advice. Parents scared to talk to the coach. We 384 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: saw a USA gymnastics what happens when parents don't have 385 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: any agency and they feel like their kids are going 386 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: to be punished if they talk about it. You know, 387 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: our kids well being is by far of the most 388 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: important thing here. You know, parents do know children like 389 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: as well as the community volunteer. When we come back, 390 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:37,479 Speaker 1: Amanda and I dive into youth sports retention. We're Amanda 391 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: and I left off. We were about to discuss the 392 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: retention issues plaguing youth sports today. You know, I know 393 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: you said, you've done a ton of this work for 394 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: twelve years and studied it, and I think the statistic 395 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: is I don't know if the Aspen Institute or whomever, 396 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:57,159 Speaker 1: but around like sixty two seventy kids drop out of 397 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: sports by the time they're thirteen or something along those 398 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,160 Speaker 1: lines of some some gigantic number. Now, I I think 399 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: that as well. You know, sometimes I hear that number 400 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 1: and I go, we'll listen. Thirteen. Right, you're starting to 401 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: maybe start puberty, kids start to have a voice for themselves. 402 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: Maybe they really haven't enjoyed it. They can go down 403 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: different avenues. And also it becomes more competitive. I mean, 404 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: you start, you're approaching you know, you're in middle school, 405 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 1: you're getting towards high school. So is it because our 406 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: kids just dropping out because it's not fun anymore, because 407 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: they had a bad experience, or just because it doesn't 408 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: fit them. How do you do a better job in retention? 409 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: And you have a wrestling background, right, your husband wrestled. 410 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: Wrestling loses a ton of kids more than I think 411 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,440 Speaker 1: any other sport. Ben Askin told me kids turn over 412 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: year over year. I mean, like an astronomical number. How 413 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: do we retain kids in sport at the youth level? Well, 414 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 1: I can talk about it in general, and then I 415 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 1: can speak to wrestling um in general. Around that time 416 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: is also the time a lot of people believe that 417 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: their kids should have access to phone, and so I 418 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: think that there's a lot of things happening around third 419 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: deem that contribute to this. But I will say that 420 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: there is a lot. You just look at Twitter, which 421 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: you see particularly like dude soccer coaches like they're really 422 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: vocal about some of them really justify playing kids like 423 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: benching kids. So you have a lot of kids now, 424 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: and and soccer is really guilty of requiring kids to 425 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: be there, you know, four or five days a week 426 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: at a really really young age in the United States. 427 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,400 Speaker 1: So now you're having a too much of an identity 428 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: with sport at a young age. And then as they 429 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: get older and they're getting benched, they're seeing like, oh 430 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: my gosh, like this is miserable. I'm not playing. I 431 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,199 Speaker 1: thought I was a good soccer player. So you're losing 432 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: a surprising amount of those kids. That's one of the 433 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: really interesting things from the research. Another thing is a 434 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: lot of families. It's because it is ego driven and 435 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: because it can be expensive. They think, well, if my 436 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: kid isn't on the top whatever, maybe we should try 437 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 1: something else. And people who own clubs have told me 438 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: that like that, oh well, maybe this isn't the sport 439 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: for them if they if they aren't on the whatever team. 440 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: And then I just think some people maybe aren't as willing. 441 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,600 Speaker 1: Like I have three girls and they play a club 442 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: in one sport and then we moonlight in other sports. 443 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: So they do like I call it chill league ice hockey, 444 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: and they have a freaking blast, right, And that coach, 445 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: we probably win more games if he'd play his kid 446 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: more because she's so good. But he just rotates the bench. 447 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: He doesn't care if it's the most beginner kid or whatever, 448 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: and it's a penalty kill. And I'm telling you my 449 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: twelve year old she's like, I just want to do 450 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: more hockey. It's so fun, Like she's having a blast, 451 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: and she's brand new to it. She's only been doing 452 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 1: it for a year. So I think that if you're 453 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: a coach, like I'm going to give him a showow 454 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: coach Dan Hawky in St. Louis um, and you're making 455 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 1: the sport so fun for the kid. You're not going 456 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: to lose them. You're just not gonna lose them. And 457 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 1: he doesn't care. With the parents, I don't think he cares. 458 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. He doesn't really interact. They stay away. 459 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: It's all good. Um. But he's just he's beautiful at 460 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,360 Speaker 1: what he does and he's just a volunteer in the community. 461 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: So perspective is a really big thing. And yes, there's 462 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: a lot of things pulling them to be active in 463 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: puberty and body changes. And you know, my oldest she 464 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: was playing field hockey and she kept falling and you'd 465 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: hear some people like audibly signing almost like she's literally 466 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 1: running down. She doesn't have the ball of balls nowhere near, 467 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: and she'll fall. Well, her feet grew three and a 468 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: half sizes in a year. Yeah, she's like, why do 469 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: I keep falling? I'm like, because your sheet grew three 470 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: and a half sizes in the year. So I think, like, 471 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,439 Speaker 1: if someone is getting ridiculed by their parents because they 472 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: kept falling, right, or they hear the dad audibly sigh, like, 473 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: maybe they'll quit because that's shaming kids, right, it's shaming 474 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: kids for being who they are. So I just have 475 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: no time for that. It's not the purpose of sport. 476 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: Those competitive kids who are highly skilled, highly motivated, they're 477 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: going to make their way to the top. But it's 478 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: like we shouldn't deny everybody else we cans to to 479 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: be like you. You promote a lot of D three 480 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: which I love D three athletics, and I played college 481 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: sports in Canada, which is probably more similar to a 482 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: D three model in many respects. And I mean that 483 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: is it's it's joyful, right, Like, why would we want 484 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,760 Speaker 1: to deny kids that I don't know, I can't figure 485 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: that out. Well, I just think there's so m It's 486 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 1: kind of like we said, there's own many you know, benefits. 487 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: And then at the same time, I wanted to ask you, 488 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: you know, with your background and wrestling as far as 489 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: your husband and such have been around the sport for 490 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,160 Speaker 1: a long time, why do you think there's even more 491 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 1: kids being lost in that sport. Wrestlers are their wrestlers 492 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: are their own worst enemy. You know, they're such lovely 493 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: people to have on your team, but they're also like 494 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: they love to say their sport is the hardest sport. Um. 495 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: They love to say that wrestlers are the toughest once 496 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: you wrestled, you know, famous quote from these easy you know. 497 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: And I am very honored. I was the recipient of 498 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: the American the Dan Gavil America Needs Wrestling Award for 499 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,119 Speaker 1: some of my research. Wow, no kids, Yeah, I know. 500 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: My husband was dying laughing in the audience. I love 501 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: wrestling because there's a singlet in every size. I love 502 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: wrestling because if your listeners look up Anthony Rogliss, they 503 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:50,280 Speaker 1: will be moved to tears and inspired to run up 504 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: a mountain. Um an athlete who was born with one 505 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,240 Speaker 1: leg and was the n C Double A champion to 506 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: Vision one for wrestling. You know. I love wrestling because 507 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:00,840 Speaker 1: it's inclusive. I love wrestling because it's a sport for 508 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: a different type of girl that might, you know, want 509 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: to compete in a different way than the more traditional 510 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: girls sports. So I I love wrestling. It's it's not expensive. 511 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: It doesn't care what zip code you live in. You 512 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 1: don't need a fancy pool or a turf for a 513 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: water turf for ice. I love wrestling for the equity 514 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: of it um and just the overall body awareness and 515 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: conditioning and all of the things and confidence as kids. 516 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: What I don't love about wrestling is how they sometimes 517 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: talk and and kind of push this adult version of 518 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: the sport at the youth level in many clubs, and 519 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: I think that drives a lot of kids out of it. 520 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: And and rather than trying to hook them, I think 521 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: once they're older and they understand, yes, we should be proud, 522 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: we work really hard and everything, but don't don't scare 523 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: kids before they have the competence and confidence to enjoy 524 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: that environment. Don't scare them away because it's gonna take 525 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,360 Speaker 1: a little while from most kids to have success in wrestling. 526 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 1: Such a great point, and that is you know you 527 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: think about and I mean echo is the great Dan Gable, 528 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: one of the greatest coaches. Allo, Once you've wrestled, everything 529 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: else in life is easy. And uh, you know, I 530 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: watched my kids and I'm like, holy gown. When I 531 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: had Jordan burrow Son right, who's arguably the girl, he 532 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 1: talked about it. He talked about it and used that 533 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: word that you've been using a lot of courageous and 534 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: wrestling is hard. But you make a great point. I 535 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: love that sport. I think it's amazing and I love 536 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,439 Speaker 1: what you just said, because there's a singlet for every 537 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: size or a size, you know. And my oldest son, Avery, 538 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: who's um. You know, he's gonna go on and wrestling 539 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 1: college and he loves the sport. He loved playing football. 540 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: He had a lot of intensity, a lot of aggression, 541 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 1: you know, he loves to get after. But he's a 542 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: smaller kid and he just didn't fit that mobile. It 543 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: was like dropping a fish in the fish tank when 544 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: he got on the wrestling mat, like harness, all his athletics, 545 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: of an energy, and it was such an amazing outlet. 546 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,159 Speaker 1: Quite frankly, I don't mean to blow him up here, 547 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: but he used to when he was younger, struggle with 548 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: a d D and some other things. And it was 549 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: like almost instantaneous a change in his life. And a 550 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: couple of years later we asked him like and he 551 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 1: and he came out and said, he goes, I don't 552 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: know what it is when I'm dog tired after a workout, 553 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: I can folk gus on my school work better. And 554 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: and he actually now we never I don't know if 555 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,399 Speaker 1: there's any science behind it, but I mean there is 556 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: there's a lot of science behind that. There's a whole 557 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: book Spark The Revolutionary Science of Exercise in the Brain 558 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: by Dr John Rady at A Harvard And I don't 559 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: know about you, Nick, but I mean I feel the 560 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,920 Speaker 1: same way after a great workout and focus and get 561 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: three hours of work done in an hour, as opposed 562 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: to I don't feel like going for that run, and 563 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: now I'm spending the whole day getting through a couple 564 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: of emails. I mean, that's not quite accurate, but you 565 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And so it's it's really true, 566 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 1: and your point of putting the fish in the fish 567 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: bowl is really really important to the youth. For conversation 568 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 1: as well, I like to call it trying on mom 569 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: jeans for the for the female listeners out there. Women 570 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: hate trying on jeans. We hate it. It's horrible. And 571 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: then you find a pair you like and you're like sweet, 572 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: these fits they feel good. And then it goes out 573 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: a song You're like, crap, you know, And now I 574 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 1: think goes trying work. But like every kid should try 575 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: on all the different sports. And sometimes I think parents 576 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: in the in the hands and everything, they really really 577 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: lose perspective of you know, they tried to rank kids 578 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: at age five and define them in these ways or 579 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: even at twelve, and it's really really unfortunate. Nick Preston, 580 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,160 Speaker 1: I think he was a three time All American from 581 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: Ohio State. He was my husband's roommate when like for 582 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: a year or two at uv a UM later on, 583 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,479 Speaker 1: but he didn't start wrestling till he was a sophomore 584 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: in high school. Like you can still like there's still 585 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: some sports that you can be late. Entry to my 586 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: friend Pat Toosy, he's got two boys ones going to 587 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 1: Air Force ones visiting colleges now for wrestling. They didn't 588 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: start wresting till three or four years ago when they 589 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,360 Speaker 1: kept getting cut from basketball, you know. So it's like 590 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: there is something for everyone. And I think that that 591 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,480 Speaker 1: is why when you pick everyone on a team and 592 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 1: everyone's proved in the tryout that they belong on that team. 593 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: I think this notion of winning championships and everything, like 594 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,439 Speaker 1: I really think people need to just step back and 595 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,920 Speaker 1: just remind like, let's not lose our way here. You know, um, 596 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: this is just not what this is. This is for now. 597 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: I say that also is a place of privilege, right, 598 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,200 Speaker 1: Like there's some people I was at a meeting with 599 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,679 Speaker 1: a friend last week out at the US Olympic Museum 600 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: Dr Kevin Chapman at Louisville, and he was like, you know, 601 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: what was my ticket? So for some it is like 602 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 1: there is definite pressure to be on those teams that 603 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,119 Speaker 1: go to these things showcases and and do well. And 604 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,400 Speaker 1: so in those instances, like you know, it's for juniors 605 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 1: and seniors in college, like I understand it could be 606 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: a little different then, but if you don't want to 607 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 1: listen to someone who's got three degrees in this stuff 608 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: and its studied it for now forty five, like look 609 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,480 Speaker 1: at Aston Joran's I mean you know, he said it. 610 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: He develops every single person on his roster and people 611 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: laugh at him and he's like, but who has all 612 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: the titles? I was like, yeah, you tell the mans 613 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: and like that was amazing. Sammy Awards interview when they 614 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: came up and told her that her kid needed a 615 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: different coach, not knowing who she was, Yeah, I thought 616 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: that was like, yeah, it's and I think that sums 617 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 1: a lot of Amanda, tell me the US where can 618 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: we find you? Where can we find your work? I 619 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 1: know you've written a ton of articles. Things have been published. 620 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: Where can people connect with you? Yeah, well, my website 621 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: is move live Learned dot com and I'm on Twitter 622 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: at move live learned and same with Instagram at love 623 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: Live Learned. And Nick, I just want to sincerely, you know, 624 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: thank you for for your work and your voice in 625 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: this movement. You and my friend Heath as Slinger from 626 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: a Better Way Athletics are really getting this message out 627 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: there and I think people are finally willing to listen. 628 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: And I'm just really humbled to have had this time 629 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,800 Speaker 1: with you today, Amanda. I can't thank you enough and 630 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: shout out Heath. Heat's a good dude. I've connected him 631 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: several times, does amazing work. And I just can't thank 632 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: you enough for coming on and sharing your insight, sharing 633 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 1: your feedback and we're definitely gonna dig deeper even more so, 634 00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,840 Speaker 1: So thank you so much. Okay, thank you. That's Dr 635 00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 1: Amanda Stanic, physical education, sports psychology and kinesiology expert. Thanks 636 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: for listening to the Reformed Sports Project podcast dom Nick 637 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: Boticourt and our goal is to restore a healthy balance 638 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: and perspective in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. 639 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:05,280 Speaker 1: For updates, please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, 640 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: or check out our website by searching for the Reform 641 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: Sports Project h