Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. You are now
Speaker 1: tuned into another episode of Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Ramsey's job.
Speaker 2: He is Ramsey's job. I am q Woard And you
Speaker 2: are absolutely tuned in for another segment of City Psyche.
Speaker 3: Indeed, you are so stick around. We got a lot
Speaker 3: in store for you today. We've got a special guest.
Speaker 1: Who's going to be having a couple of interesting conversations
Speaker 1: with us. He goes by the name of Ammy Horowitz,
Speaker 1: who is an American conservative documentary filmmaker and activist. He
Speaker 1: is the writer, producer, and director of Amy on Mlouse,
Speaker 1: a satirical short film series made for Fox News. And
Speaker 1: I know what you're thinking, what is going on, But
Speaker 1: the point of today's show is to start having some
Speaker 1: constructive conversations across the political aisle. And I do believe
Speaker 1: that Amy is the sort of person with the right
Speaker 1: temperament to begin having these conversations for.
Speaker 3: Us, because this is very new to us.
Speaker 1: Another thing that we're going to do a little later
Speaker 1: on in the show is how a very similar conversation
Speaker 1: with our special guest across the ethnic aisle, if you will.
Speaker 1: For those who have been paying attention to the news.
Speaker 1: Over the past let's call it year plus, there has
Speaker 1: been a little bit of friction between Black people and
Speaker 1: Jewish people, often stemming from black people's side of the equation,
Speaker 1: and we felt the conversation would be in order to
Speaker 1: attempt to establish a degree of understanding and really communication.
Speaker 1: We definitely believe in communication on the show here, and
Speaker 1: Ami has been kind enough to grant us an audience,
Speaker 1: so a person who obviously sees the world a little
Speaker 1: differently than we do. But we're hoping that this conversations
Speaker 1: that we have today will be informative, constructive, and hopefully
Speaker 1: lead to increased dialogue across several aisles. And again, this
Speaker 1: is kind of what we're hoping for today. But first
Speaker 1: and foremost, we are going to start to sh off
Speaker 1: as we always do with some ebony excellence, shall we
Speaker 1: we shall? So today's ABNY Excellence is sponsored by Hip
Speaker 1: Hop Weekly Media and we are reading from the Black
Speaker 1: Information Network. Today's ABNY Excellence is an acknowledgment of black
Speaker 1: CEO's reaching a record breaking high on the Fortune five
Speaker 1: hundred list.
Speaker 3: We thought that was very special.
Speaker 1: So allow me to read eight black CEOs lead companies
Speaker 1: that have landed on the twenty twenty three Fortune five
Speaker 1: hundred list, the most since the ranking's debut in nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty five. Per the company's website, two of the eight
Speaker 1: black executives joined the Fortune five hundred list for the
Speaker 1: first time ever. Calvin Butler Junior jumped up the ranks
Speaker 1: in December twenty twenty two as the CEO of energy
Speaker 1: provider Excellent, which landed at number two hundred and eighteen
Speaker 1: on the list. Christopher Womack, the CEO of Southern Company
Speaker 1: in Atlanta based gas and utility company, was also in
Speaker 1: your infant to the group of black CEOs after earning
Speaker 1: the top position in May.
Speaker 3: A third back. A third black.
Speaker 1: Executive, Renade Jones of New York, New York's M and
Speaker 1: T Bank, returned to the ranking after the bank was
Speaker 1: dropped off from last year's list due to a decrease
Speaker 1: in revenue through the rank.
Speaker 3: Sorry.
Speaker 1: Though the ranking holds a record number of black executives,
Speaker 1: they still only make up less than two percent of
Speaker 1: all Fortune five hundred CEOs. Black CEOs faced higher expectations
Speaker 1: to pursue that to prove their qualifications despite being more
Speaker 1: educated than the white counterparts. According to a twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two study published in the Strategic Management Journal. Quote, there
Speaker 1: are a plethora of talented, qualified, extraordinary leaders who happen
Speaker 1: to be black. It's never a surprise when they advanced
Speaker 1: to the c suite or even to the CEO position, quote,
Speaker 1: said Laura Morgan Roberts, an associate professor of Business administration
Speaker 1: at the University of Virginia's Darden School of Business. She
Speaker 1: goes on to say, it says more about the companies
Speaker 1: and the board of director's ability to develop an advance
Speaker 1: talent from all backgrounds than it says about the representation
Speaker 1: of the leaders themselves. So we want to shout out
Speaker 1: any advancement, certainly in the corporate world that we feel
Speaker 1: is a step in the right direction, and so shout
Speaker 1: out to the CEOs who landed on the Fortune five
Speaker 1: hundred list that are black. Moving on, it is time
Speaker 1: to talk to our special guests. So Ami, welcome to
Speaker 1: the show, of course, and for our listeners benefit, we
Speaker 1: gave you a brief introduction, but talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about yourself and what it is that you do and
Speaker 1: how people might be familiar with your work.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny. I think you read it you wrote
Speaker 4: off my Wikipedia page, which is not entirely accurate.
Speaker 3: Okay, we'll educate us.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, you know, look, people call me conservative filmmaker.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure I would I would qualify myself as that.
Speaker 4: Certainly I'm right of center on most things, but certainly
Speaker 4: go center or left of center on a bunch of
Speaker 4: things as well. Okay, and don't produce my work for
Speaker 4: Fox News. I've been on Fox News, but some reason
Speaker 4: that's on my Wikipedia page. My background actually was as
Speaker 4: an investment banker. I did that for about well. My
Speaker 4: career has kind of been doing things I had no
Speaker 4: business doing. So my first job was I actually ran
Speaker 4: out of college. I ran a campaign for State Controller
Speaker 4: of Maryland. I had zero experience in running a campaign,
Speaker 4: but for some reason I kind of fell into the job.
Speaker 3: This was a Democratic candidate, right.
Speaker 4: A Democratic candidate. All right, Look again, it's not about
Speaker 4: the letter. It's more about what people think for me
Speaker 4: and kind of what their perspective is, and do I
Speaker 4: align myself with that. This guy was kind of run
Speaker 4: up my alley on ninety eight percent of all the issues,
Speaker 4: and I thought, this is a guy who I think
Speaker 4: should be elected to this position, and afterwards I was
Speaker 4: trying to figure out what I want to do next.
Speaker 4: He said, well, why don't you go make some money
Speaker 4: first and then come back into politics. And I go, great,
Speaker 4: how do you make money? He goes be an investment
Speaker 4: banker like me, and I was like, I don't even
Speaker 4: know what that is. Never took a business course in
Speaker 4: my life. And I basically moved to New York without
Speaker 4: knowing anybody. And I mean, this is back when when
Speaker 4: payphones were around. You guys may not know what that is.
Speaker 4: Oh things out there that you just put you plugged
Speaker 4: in quarters and you could make phone calls. And got
Speaker 4: the Wall Street Journal and got a list of the
Speaker 4: investment banks and cold called investment banks until I and
Speaker 4: I'm going on too long, stop me, please no, please
Speaker 4: go ahead, And somehow got interviews and just kind of
Speaker 4: my way into my first entry level job and did
Speaker 4: that for about ten years. Wasn't never particularly good at it,
Speaker 4: but just was able to kind of get along, just
Speaker 4: move on. And then finally I decided, out of nowhere
Speaker 4: to make a movie again. Zero film experience, no idea
Speaker 4: what I was doing, but kind of fell had a
Speaker 4: knack for it. Made a my my first feature film
Speaker 4: or my only feature film about the the United Nations,
Speaker 4: kind of like a black satirical Michael Moore style documentary
Speaker 4: about the dangers and the failures of the UN and
Speaker 4: then never look back. This has kind of been my
Speaker 4: career since then.
Speaker 3: Sure, sure, sure. Now.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think that some people
Speaker 1: might know you for is is kind of that sort
Speaker 1: of satirical sort of like Man on the Street, just
Speaker 1: kind of getting interviews from people that is in the
Speaker 1: same vein of what our listeners might be familiar with
Speaker 1: from the likes of like The Daily Show with people
Speaker 1: like Jordan Klepper or Roy Wood Junior, just people just
Speaker 1: kind of getting out there. But you know, my understanding
Speaker 1: is that you've done these about topics that are well,
Speaker 1: you know what, why don't why don't I let you
Speaker 1: describe it a little bit more so, so talk to
Speaker 1: us about that facet of your career.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So I kind of do several types of videos.
Speaker 4: Some are short documentaries where I'll go to Venezuela or
Speaker 4: I'll go to the Janine and I will you know,
Speaker 4: uncover or or kind of dig into a particular issue
Speaker 4: which I find interesting or I think that needs to
Speaker 4: be explained or exposed. And then another set of a
Speaker 4: video I do are kind of like stunt type videos
Speaker 4: where all you know, I'll wave, I'll have hidden cameras
Speaker 4: and I'll wave, give an ISIS flag on the Berkeley
Speaker 4: campus and see what people's reactions are to it. The
Speaker 4: next day I fly the US flag and see what
Speaker 4: people and compare contrasts and different reactions. And then the
Speaker 4: third type one you're referring to, a kind of man
Speaker 4: the street where I interview people around the world and
Speaker 4: try to get to the heart of kind of what
Speaker 4: they're thinking is and and get a sense of really
Speaker 4: what their and it's usually not me arguing with them.
Speaker 4: It's very rare I do. Yeah, it's more really trying
Speaker 4: to understand what they think and having them say the
Speaker 4: quiet part out loud. That's kind of like my real
Speaker 4: skill set. Oftentimes I will pretend to be a person
Speaker 4: that thinks similar to them, which makes them feel a
Speaker 4: little more comfortable. That's kind of where there might be
Speaker 4: some controversy. I'm not I don't really understand the controversy.
Speaker 4: People will say, well, you know you're leading the horse
Speaker 4: to water. I go, well, that may be true, but
Speaker 4: you can never force the horse to drink the water.
Speaker 4: Either they drink it, they don't drink it. You could
Speaker 4: lead me down any path you want, but I'm not
Speaker 4: going to say something I don't believe. So that's kind
Speaker 4: of been my style, kind of having them feel comfortable
Speaker 4: by me pretending to kind of think like they do.
Speaker 3: Sure so good.
Speaker 2: So for our listeners who might not be familiar running
Speaker 2: a campaign for a state controller into investment banking. For
Speaker 2: people who are not familiar with the role of a controller,
Speaker 2: I'm thinking that's fiscal or in some way a financial
Speaker 2: role for the state. Could you tell people a little
Speaker 2: bit more about what a state controller does, like a.
Speaker 4: Treasurer I think they call that, you know, in some
Speaker 4: states they call it control or something to call it treasurer. Yeah,
Speaker 4: the finance in the statement.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just wanted you to give that little bit
Speaker 2: of context for for listeners who weren't familiar with the
Speaker 2: term controller.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that I found interesting is
Speaker 1: that obviously here we consume a lot of media in
Speaker 1: order to get a well rounded view of events in
Speaker 1: the news cycle, and we found it problematic and and
Speaker 1: difficult to approach a lot of news from conservative sources,
Speaker 1: mostly because we felt this is our perspective, and I'm
Speaker 1: sure that a lot of people share this perspective. If
Speaker 1: you look at the the distribution of the population and
Speaker 1: by by ethnicity of who consumes what media sources, you
Speaker 1: might see a little bit of a trend. But we
Speaker 1: felt that a lot of news sources were anti black
Speaker 1: in some instances, the people that were elevated to you know,
Speaker 1: primetime positions were often the most hateful, the most divisive
Speaker 1: sorts of individuals, and we could see, you know, people
Speaker 1: profiting from allowing this divide to deepen and to protect
Speaker 1: our own sort of mental health and to just recognize
Speaker 1: that we kind of have a longer road here, we've
Speaker 1: limited intake from media outlets that are not entirely based
Speaker 1: In fact, you know, Fox News famously had to pay
Speaker 1: Dominion voting systems almost a billion dollars. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: like seven hundred plus million dollars for basically elevating what
Speaker 1: ultimately as an unfounded and utter lie about the previous administration.
Speaker 1: And that is not their only sin.
Speaker 3: We have.
Speaker 1: Even objectively, they are very very biased in one direction.
Speaker 1: And that's not to say that the true is not
Speaker 1: or the same as not true of other media outlets,
Speaker 1: but other media outlets, we don't feel their bias has
Speaker 1: as profound or as direct of an implication on the
Speaker 1: day to take lives of the most vulnerable people, at
Speaker 1: least by race. And so the reason I wanted to
Speaker 1: explain that is because where I'm going next is I've
Speaker 1: always felt by watching programs like The Daily Show, where
Speaker 1: they're kind of based in humor, they're a little bit
Speaker 1: more approachable for most of the population, you know, we
Speaker 1: just wouldn't want to have a laugh that we want
Speaker 1: to be informed as well. That they do have people
Speaker 1: like that. Those the sort of man on the street
Speaker 1: sort of people that go out and they, you know,
Speaker 1: like you, they tend to be aligned politically with the
Speaker 1: people they're interviewing, right, and they will ask questions to
Speaker 1: really see why people believe what it is that they believe, right,
Speaker 1: And obviously these people are seldom prepared to have these
Speaker 1: conversations because they were either taught or you know, that's
Speaker 1: just a reflection of their viewpoint, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I think what we end up seeing and what
Speaker 1: we end up laughing at is that often enough these
Speaker 1: people are politically aligned with what they themselves will identify
Speaker 1: as being against their own interests in the moment in
Speaker 1: that interview, right, And so this is why we can
Speaker 1: all sit around and have a laugh. And so when
Speaker 1: I looked at some of your earlier work and saw
Speaker 1: something similar but from the opposite advantage point, I realized,
Speaker 1: you know what, not only is that fear, but that
Speaker 1: might be something that's missing. Because pure gold fears no fire, right,
Speaker 1: wrong is wrong, right is right. And when we're wrong
Speaker 1: on this side, or when we need to, you know,
Speaker 1: strengthen our arguments or whatever the case is, there's programmings
Speaker 1: like the ones that you put together that are necessary
Speaker 1: for us to really ensure that what we're thinking is
Speaker 1: based in a shared reality, and that our beliefs are
Speaker 1: not simply beliefs because we've been given them, but because
Speaker 1: they are indeed a reflection of who we are as
Speaker 1: a people and what we value as a people. Now,
Speaker 1: I know that my listeners would eat me up if
Speaker 1: I didn't mention that there is a difference in power,
Speaker 1: you know, depending on who you're talking to, and power
Speaker 1: in terms of their capacity to influence their immediate here now,
Speaker 1: either by voting or have some sort of fiscal impact
Speaker 1: or effect on their reality by withholding dollars or spending
Speaker 1: elsewhere or whatever. Those are who are the most vulnerable
Speaker 1: in the population typically don't have that same free them
Speaker 1: to change there, here and now the way that, let's
Speaker 1: be honest, our white male, often conservative, heterosexual Christian brothers
Speaker 1: do the value of a vote is less than the
Speaker 1: value of a vote from that specific type of individual,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Forgive me for going on and on, but
Speaker 1: I wanted to kind of get your thoughts on what
Speaker 1: it is that you are trying to accomplish, or at
Speaker 1: least we're trying to accomplish with your programs like Ami
Speaker 1: on the LuSE and Amy on the Street. What what
Speaker 1: did you think would come about as a result of
Speaker 1: those endeavors?
Speaker 4: Yeah? So so people often ask me, so why do
Speaker 4: I do what I do? Right? Who am I trying
Speaker 4: to speak to?
Speaker 1: Who?
Speaker 4: Now am I speaking to? Who am I trying to
Speaker 4: speak to?
Speaker 3: Sure?
Speaker 4: If if you know, one of the things I'm very
Speaker 4: proud of is I built a significant audience who are
Speaker 4: non conservatives about it, pulling every once in a while
Speaker 4: on my basic get a sense of where they are
Speaker 4: politically roughly rather third are non conservatives. I mean they're
Speaker 4: left of center or independent, some left wing, but a
Speaker 4: few of those, but obviously the majority are conservatives. But
Speaker 4: why do I do what I do? Is because I
Speaker 4: feel that the center left and the center right have
Speaker 4: far more in common than the center right has with
Speaker 4: the far right, and the center left has with the
Speaker 4: far left. And it's unfortunate that most people on both
Speaker 4: sides don't realize that. And so my goal personally is
Speaker 4: to try to separate the center left from the hard left.
Speaker 4: I don't think they have a lot in common. I
Speaker 4: think the center left doesn't fully understand that, as the
Speaker 4: center right doesn't fully understand that. They don't. They have
Speaker 4: not that much in common with the hard right, and
Speaker 4: so I'm trying to speak to them. I'm trying to say, look,
Speaker 4: here is what the hard left believes, and I don't
Speaker 4: think this aligns with your worldview. And if you tell them, hey,
Speaker 4: the hard left believes in destruction of capitalism, open borders,
Speaker 4: transiting nine year olds, the centate left will say that's
Speaker 4: not true, that's right wing talking points. No one believes that,
Speaker 4: And my point is no, no, there are people who
Speaker 4: believe that here are those people, and I don't think
Speaker 4: that aligns your viewpoint. That's why I'm always trying to
Speaker 4: speak to and that's why I love to go on
Speaker 4: shows that don't speak to the typical conservative audience, which
Speaker 4: is just to me, he's preaching the choir, which has value, sure,
Speaker 4: but it's not who I'm trying to engage with. It's
Speaker 4: why I do a lot of videos on race. I
Speaker 4: try to speak to the black community whenever I can.
Speaker 4: I think I think black people and the right of
Speaker 4: center have more in common than either side actually thinks
Speaker 4: or nos. So that's an important audience for me. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm always trying to speak to a different audience and
Speaker 4: trying very hard not to alienate that audience for my content.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so here are some things, and please, you know,
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 3: Actually, you know what, before I ask, I want to
Speaker 3: let you know that.
Speaker 1: What I'm going to do is I'm going to read
Speaker 1: some of the titles of some of the specials that
Speaker 1: you've done, give a little bit of background, just really
Speaker 1: briefly and sort of what you learned in doing them.
Speaker 1: But this first one is going to be kind of heavy.
Speaker 1: It's fair to let you know that on this show,
Speaker 1: we remain critical of policing the way that it is
Speaker 1: done in this country. We push back against the narrative
Speaker 1: that police are always the good guys. We recognize that
Speaker 1: we have been subjected to copaganda and that while there
Speaker 1: are I would assume a decent number of good human
Speaker 1: beings who happen to function in the capacity of a
Speaker 1: police officer, that there is a system that incubates bullying behavior.
Speaker 1: It insulates people from consequences of their biases, their hatred
Speaker 1: manifested in the form of violence against black and brown bodies.
Speaker 1: And we believe that our being critical of policing is
Speaker 1: important to get the best version of public safety possible.
Speaker 1: In other words, we just simply do not accept that
Speaker 1: this is the best that is possible. We simply reject
Speaker 1: the narrative that it's a few bad apples, because that
Speaker 1: has been a narrative that has been People have tried
Speaker 1: to establish that for decades, and people have tried to
Speaker 1: say that training is something that is necessary for decades.
Speaker 1: And I don't want to be born the whole life
Speaker 1: and then die and still have that be a narrative
Speaker 1: that is popular. A few bad apples, better training, et cetera. Right,
Speaker 1: So I need you to understand who you're talking to
Speaker 1: when I ask you these questions, because this title to
Speaker 1: a person like me and indeed our listeners now I
Speaker 1: know better, but a person like me, the title would
Speaker 1: seem like it flies in the face of an agenda
Speaker 1: that my people are trying to push, which is that
Speaker 1: our lives have worth. And that is really the beginning, middle,
Speaker 1: and end of the conversation. And when other people inject
Speaker 1: other elements into the conversation, we take it as noise
Speaker 1: or a subtle way of pushing back against our affirmation
Speaker 1: of our lives having value. And then obviously you know
Speaker 1: the story about Q and I with the trademark White
Speaker 1: White Lives Matter, and that whole pushback as well. So
Speaker 1: with that in mind, I want to ask you the
Speaker 1: intentionality behind and the result, in other words, what you
Speaker 1: learned of the do Cops Lives Matter initiative?
Speaker 4: So that was that video, the video where I had
Speaker 4: hitting camera.
Speaker 3: So I'm not entirely sure. I'm, like I said, I'm
Speaker 3: reading these titles.
Speaker 4: I believe that video was actually particularly interesting video. Okay,
Speaker 4: that video was This was the I believe the first
Speaker 4: iteration of black Lives matter.
Speaker 3: Okay, so we're talking twenty twelve, Trayvon Martin.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that sounds exactly right. Okay, all right, let's go
Speaker 4: and was trust. So, the narrative that was of course
Speaker 4: being pushed then and to a sort of extent now,
Speaker 4: was that there's a lot of hatred of police officers
Speaker 4: within the black community. In fact, the video began with
Speaker 4: me and a lot of my videos begin with me
Speaker 4: in leftist white neighborhoods and then end with me in
Speaker 4: black neighborhoods, and that video, I believe, began with me
Speaker 4: in a white neighborhood, I believe Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and I
Speaker 4: was interviewing white leftists and I asked them, how do
Speaker 4: how do you think black people view the NYPD? And
Speaker 4: to a man, every single person was rage on the street.
Speaker 4: There's hatred of police officers. They find them all disgusting.
Speaker 4: It was just over and over the same narrative, kind
Speaker 4: of heard that, you know, it's just a hatred of
Speaker 4: police officers by black people around the country. Then the
Speaker 4: next shot was me in I believe West Harlem, I
Speaker 4: could have been East Harlem, and I had a T
Speaker 4: shirt that said, cops lives matter and hidden cameras, so
Speaker 4: almoys knows I'm being on film. I was trying to
Speaker 4: enlist what was the reaction I was going to get.
Speaker 4: So it seemed provocative, right, particularly among the black particularly
Speaker 4: when Black Lives Matter was happening, and the I didn't
Speaker 4: know and with a lot with with some of my videos,
Speaker 4: I kind of have a sense of what the response
Speaker 4: going to be. This is one of the few videos
Speaker 4: I really had no idea what the response was going
Speaker 4: to be. And the response was I thought incredible. Almost
Speaker 4: almost every single black person came up to me instead
Speaker 4: of course, cops lives matter. How can we love supporting
Speaker 4: the police officers? Of course we have problems, and they
Speaker 4: start telling me stories in fact about how cops were
Speaker 4: involved in their lives, saved them, help them. Some are black,
Speaker 4: some were white. And it was a really interesting experience
Speaker 4: where you got a perspective different than what the narrative
Speaker 4: I was hearing in the media was. But how blacks
Speaker 4: view police officers?
Speaker 3: Sure? Sure, and I appreciate that. Obviously.
Speaker 1: There's more titles. Do liberals know What's in the Iran deal? Ferguson.
Speaker 1: Protesters called for Darren Wilson's death. What do you know
Speaker 1: about the IRS and Obamacare after exposing or sorry and
Speaker 1: exposing anti Israeli companies in Ireland. So this is just
Speaker 1: the name of a few of these sort of specials
Speaker 1: that you've done with titles like that, and I believe
Speaker 1: that they're all much the same, like the one that
Speaker 1: you described. I do want to offer something there that
Speaker 1: you know, for a person like me, I recognize that
Speaker 1: that illustrates and illuminates that black people are not a
Speaker 1: hateful people. If we're painting with broad strokes, affirming our
Speaker 1: lives doesn't mean that anyone else's life matters less. And
Speaker 1: I think that it also suggests that black people can
Speaker 1: be subject to the influences of a white supremacist society
Speaker 1: A but also things like copaganda be the same as
Speaker 1: any other person, and those of us who have higher
Speaker 1: level thinking that can think critically about these things.
Speaker 3: It's our duty to inform and now Platon