1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,720
Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:07,200
Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

3
00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:11,559
Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

4
00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,799
Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

5
00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:26,479
Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with my

6
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,960
Speaker 2: two favorite ladies, the queens of true crime, Body move

7
00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,640
Speaker 2: In and Courtney Armstrong. We are here on this Sunday,

8
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,040
Speaker 2: January eighteenth, and we hope you guys had a fantastic weekend.

9
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:40,120
Speaker 3: Welcome back. Come on.

10
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 2: The week is beginning and I have some good feelings

11
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:43,559
Speaker 2: about it.

12
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:44,919
Speaker 3: I hope there are going to be.

13
00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,839
Speaker 2: Some good things ahead because listen, we have a stagnet

14
00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,280
Speaker 2: of headlines. The charges have been expanded, for example, against

15
00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 2: the accused, the ex husband in the Ohio double murder

16
00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:01,560
Speaker 2: case that we're following so closely. It is getting stranger

17
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 2: and creepier as we learn more. By the way, we

18
00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,400
Speaker 2: also have Joseph Scott Morgan with us tonight, host of

19
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,720
Speaker 2: the hit podcast Body Bags. He'll be joining us later

20
00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 2: in the show to talk about some of the forensics

21
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,280
Speaker 2: specifically about that case as well. Also, don't forget this

22
00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,319
Speaker 2: Epstein file saga continues. Still nothing has been released, although

23
00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,440
Speaker 2: there has been a very strange filing that happened at

24
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,080
Speaker 2: around midnight on Saturday.

25
00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:29,399
Speaker 3: Over the weekend.

26
00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,200
Speaker 2: So we'll give you some new information on that. And

27
00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:37,480
Speaker 2: remember tomorrow's Martin Luther King Day. So hopefully you have

28
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,360
Speaker 2: the day off and you're celebrating a three day weekend

29
00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,400
Speaker 2: with us right now.

30
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,000
Speaker 3: But if you've got to go to work, that is okay.

31
00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:46,800
Speaker 2: You can still join us too, jump in, join the

32
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 2: Conversation Live eight eight eight three one crime, or you

33
00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 2: can always leave us a talkback.

34
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,440
Speaker 3: So body, where should we begin?

35
00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:00,280
Speaker 4: Oh the Ohio Dentist by the Ohio Dentist double murder

36
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,120
Speaker 4: case out of Columbus, Ohio. So, an Ohio grand jury

37
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:10,160
Speaker 4: has formally expanded and finalized charges against vascular surgeon Michael McKee.

38
00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,160
Speaker 4: David Michael, I'm sorry, Michael. David McKee is his name,

39
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 4: and he stands accused of fatally shooting his ex wife,

40
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:21,919
Speaker 4: victim Monique Tepe, and her husband, who was a dentist,

41
00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,040
Speaker 4: doctor Spence Tepe, inside their Columbus, i A home, on

42
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,919
Speaker 4: December thirtieth of twenty twenty five, while their two young

43
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:34,080
Speaker 4: children slept nearby. Thankfully the children were unharmed. So Michael

44
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:38,400
Speaker 4: McKee now faces four counts of aggravated murder one count

45
00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,119
Speaker 4: of aggravated robbery, and if convicted, he could receive life

46
00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,160
Speaker 4: in prison with parole eligibility only after thirty two years.

47
00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:47,960
Speaker 4: And I kind of wanted to get into the charges

48
00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 4: just a minute, for a minute, yeah ahead, please.

49
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I was gonna say, how did it go

50
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,239
Speaker 5: to four counts of aggravated murders?

51
00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,040
Speaker 4: Well, he has two counts of aggravated murder, which is

52
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:03,400
Speaker 4: the prior cal and design for the intentional killing. And

53
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,000
Speaker 4: then he has two additional counts of aggravated murder convicted

54
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,440
Speaker 4: during the course of an aggravated burglary, and that enhances

55
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 4: the charges because the alleged killings occurred in the course

56
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:14,679
Speaker 4: of entering the residence.

57
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,560
Speaker 3: And then he has one count of.

58
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:22,880
Speaker 4: Aggravated burglary, which alleges he unlawfully entered the home while

59
00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,440
Speaker 4: committing a violent crime. So it's kind of like a ladder, right,

60
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,720
Speaker 4: So he entered the home during the commission of a crime,

61
00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 4: So that's the aggravated burglary, and then above that is

62
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,840
Speaker 4: the aggravated murder committed committed during the course of an

63
00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 4: aggravated burglary.

64
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,800
Speaker 2: They all stack they kind of stack up against each other.

65
00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,440
Speaker 2: And there still have been no revelations as to how

66
00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 2: he slipped through the either front door or.

67
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 3: Back door or a basement window. I mean.

68
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,160
Speaker 4: Speculation, right, We just don't know yet. They haven't really said.

69
00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,000
Speaker 4: And I keep waiting for like some kind of probable

70
00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,360
Speaker 4: cause affidavit to be released, but I haven't seen yet.

71
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,400
Speaker 2: We haven't seen that. Nor have we seen the exact

72
00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,680
Speaker 2: weapon type. Right, We haven't seen We don't know the

73
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 2: type of gun per se. We do know that it's

74
00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,880
Speaker 2: a gun, but those are two big ticket items that

75
00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,320
Speaker 2: still are unknowable, right.

76
00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:15,920
Speaker 4: And we know it's a gun, and we know there

77
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,360
Speaker 4: was a suppressor, which implies premeditation. Right, So that's where

78
00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 4: all this aggravated murder and whatnot comes in. And you know,

79
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 4: one thing I did also want to kind of mention

80
00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 4: was the death penalty.

81
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 6: Right.

82
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,080
Speaker 4: A lot of people have been talking about the death penalty,

83
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,000
Speaker 4: and so I did a little bit of research. And

84
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,880
Speaker 4: of course, you know, Ohio does have the death penalty,

85
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:39,159
Speaker 4: and under Ohio law, aggravated murder is punishable by death

86
00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,120
Speaker 4: in Ohio, it depends on what the jury and the

87
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,360
Speaker 4: court decided sentencing.

88
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 3: A defendant has to be eighteen years or older.

89
00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,720
Speaker 4: Of course he is, he's thirty nine years old, and

90
00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:54,239
Speaker 4: before the death penalty can be considered, aggravating factors listed

91
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,719
Speaker 4: in state law must be specifically alleged and proven beyond

92
00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:00,480
Speaker 4: a reasonable doubt. So I don't know what's going to

93
00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,240
Speaker 4: happen with this. I don't know if they're going to

94
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 4: try to get the death penalty, but it certainly seems

95
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:07,400
Speaker 4: like he does meet some of the conditions for that,

96
00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,760
Speaker 4: you know, qualify.

97
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:09,599
Speaker 3: Some of the conditions.

98
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,920
Speaker 2: And by the way, it's like a very complicated thing,

99
00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,559
Speaker 2: because this again is a measured intellectual man.

100
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,800
Speaker 3: Right, he's a he's a surgeon.

101
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:21,240
Speaker 2: He's smart enough that he got as far as you

102
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,000
Speaker 2: must go to become a vascular surgeon of sorts. So

103
00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:29,080
Speaker 2: exactly so, why would you throw that all away on

104
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,160
Speaker 2: a plan that was very kakamani? Now, not so in

105
00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,040
Speaker 2: that he drove four hundred miles, not so that he

106
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,400
Speaker 2: knew the destination, not so that there's no apparent forest entry.

107
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,760
Speaker 2: Again we don't fully have that information. But what was

108
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 2: the backup plan here? He was going to have his

109
00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,200
Speaker 2: his car. That' stuff he drove in is his personal car.

110
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,080
Speaker 2: So and again it didn't seem as though there was

111
00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:56,760
Speaker 2: a great cover up. And allegedly that's him on camera

112
00:05:56,880 --> 00:05:59,400
Speaker 2: on surveillance in the back alley in the middle of

113
00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,880
Speaker 2: the night. So on the one hand, this is a

114
00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,040
Speaker 2: super smart guy. Right, on the other like it did

115
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:10,240
Speaker 2: seem while premeditated, also kind of disastrous.

116
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,000
Speaker 4: Right, well, speaking of super smart, he did invoke his

117
00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,440
Speaker 4: fitth Amendment. And you know, we've been talking a lot

118
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:19,280
Speaker 4: about amendments and what and I just wanted to kind

119
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 4: of so invoking the fifth Amendment isn't a confession, right,

120
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 4: It's just a refusal.

121
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,480
Speaker 3: To do the prosecution's job for them.

122
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 4: Right. The Constitution says, you don't have to talk, you

123
00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,919
Speaker 4: don't have to testify, and your silence is not evidence

124
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:35,880
Speaker 4: of guilt.

125
00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:38,000
Speaker 3: You know, Miranda, you're when you get ready, you're a

126
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:38,680
Speaker 3: Miranda rights.

127
00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,120
Speaker 4: Those exists for a reason, and if the state wants answers,

128
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,240
Speaker 4: they have to prove it, right, not trick it, not

129
00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:47,480
Speaker 4: coerce it, and not guilt you into it. And that's

130
00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 4: not being shady. That's the Fifth Amendment. Right, However, right,

131
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:53,000
Speaker 4: not to incriminate yourself.

132
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,920
Speaker 2: But whenever somebody does do that, you're like, oh, even

133
00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 2: on Andy Cohen on What Live, We're like, they're a

134
00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,040
Speaker 2: liar there, I'm not talking, so they have something to hide.

135
00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,760
Speaker 3: So that can be a double edged sword, is right.

136
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,680
Speaker 4: And there's some other things in the Fifth Amendment that

137
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,560
Speaker 4: people need to know when it comes to your crime. Right,

138
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,560
Speaker 4: double jeopardy is part of the Fifth Amendment. You can't

139
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,119
Speaker 4: be prosecuted twice for the same thing, So you can't

140
00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,760
Speaker 4: be forced self incrimination. You can't be forced to be

141
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,760
Speaker 4: a witness against yourself. Right, you have the right to

142
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 4: remain silent, that's that part. And due process guarantees fair

143
00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:32,440
Speaker 4: legal proceedings and protects fundamental liberties from government interference. And

144
00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:34,680
Speaker 4: you want to know more about due process, check out

145
00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:35,960
Speaker 4: the fourteenth.

146
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 3: Amendment as well.

147
00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 4: Anyway, moving on, that's our little, our little constitution.

148
00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 3: Amendment this week, let's do this week.

149
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 2: Can we just do any nod to the Fifth Amendment

150
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 2: that comes up and seems relevant, Let's wink to.

151
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 5: The fifth Yeah, come on, I'm surprised by two things.

152
00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,880
Speaker 5: Number One, I'm still have the charges in my head.

153
00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 5: I'm surprised that there's no charges about child and danger

154
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:01,960
Speaker 5: since they were children.

155
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,160
Speaker 3: Very surprising to me.

156
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,040
Speaker 4: I'm very surprised. I am too, I am too strange.

157
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,560
Speaker 4: I expected to see something like child abuse or how.

158
00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:17,120
Speaker 2: Could be abusive than to murder two young children's parents

159
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,239
Speaker 2: near them, right and lead them to defend for themselves.

160
00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 3: Thereafter and being there with a gun. Wheel. Yes, so

161
00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:25,679
Speaker 3: we heard.

162
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 4: I don't know if you guys saw this, but we

163
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,320
Speaker 4: heard from a friend of Monique.

164
00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:31,200
Speaker 3: She was the victim.

165
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 4: She was the wife, the ex wife of the suspect,

166
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,160
Speaker 4: Michael right, And we heard from a friend. She wanted

167
00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 4: to remain anonymous, and she told people that the ex husband,

168
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:47,520
Speaker 4: Michael McKee, struggled with Monique's happiness after their divorce, saying, quote,

169
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,720
Speaker 4: he thought she could not live without him, that she

170
00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 4: needed him so for her to thrive in her new marriage.

171
00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,959
Speaker 4: That just destroyed his fragile little ego. Remember we were

172
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,840
Speaker 4: talking about God. Was he maybe looking at her pictures

173
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 4: on Facebook and seeing her beautiful children and you know,

174
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:08,640
Speaker 4: but she we all commented how like lovely they looked, right, So,

175
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,480
Speaker 4: and I wonder if he was like, I'm a doctor,

176
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,439
Speaker 4: I'm a vascular surgeon. And she left me and had

177
00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,320
Speaker 4: kids without me, and you know, I'm not sure, but

178
00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:18,199
Speaker 4: it's something.

179
00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:19,520
Speaker 3: On that particular day.

180
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,320
Speaker 2: And again, it's a real attention for anybody who's in

181
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,440
Speaker 2: a scenario where they think to themselves, Oh, it's no

182
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 2: big deal. He didn't really mean that, or she's just

183
00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 2: talking crazy. That's not what she meant, right, Believe somebody,

184
00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,959
Speaker 2: because if you fear that there's something violent potentially, this

185
00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,760
Speaker 2: is an example of what could happen.

186
00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:41,360
Speaker 4: Right well, and this is a good, good segue to

187
00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:43,000
Speaker 4: what I was going to talk about next, Stephanie. So,

188
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 4: there were rumors of Monique being.

189
00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:48,280
Speaker 3: Stalked by her ex husband.

190
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 4: There were rumors of it, and they were discussed among friends,

191
00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 4: but it was never substantiated or reported by her.

192
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:55,720
Speaker 3: But they did discuss it.

193
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,800
Speaker 4: They did kind of think maybe something was going on,

194
00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:01,880
Speaker 4: and the friend said that his controlling behavior, the ex

195
00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,840
Speaker 4: husband's controlling behavior, became more apparent after So when they

196
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 4: were married, they moved to Virginia, all right, and you know,

197
00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 4: Monique has a family and whatnot. They're all in Ohio

198
00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,079
Speaker 4: and Virginia's five hours away, right, and it's away from

199
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 4: all her friends everything she knew. Yeah, it was like

200
00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,360
Speaker 4: I was isolating her. Right, And this is the quote

201
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,840
Speaker 4: we have from the friend. She is a family girl

202
00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,560
Speaker 4: and a girl's girl. It was just the two of

203
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,440
Speaker 4: them in a new place, and she had no support system.

204
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,319
Speaker 4: And if you're a girl's girl, I mean I feel

205
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 4: like I'm a girl's girl. Yes, you're a girl's girl.

206
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,040
Speaker 4: You need your crew, you need your squad, right, you

207
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 4: need your people, because she didn't have that when she moved.

208
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 2: No, and so, and he's working all the time becoming

209
00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,280
Speaker 2: a vascular surgeon. So this guy's probably busy, busy, busy

210
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,760
Speaker 2: like a bee all day learning how to I don't know,

211
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:51,800
Speaker 2: be a surgeon.

212
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:52,440
Speaker 6: Right.

213
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 4: We also heard again from the victim's brother, the victim's

214
00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,000
Speaker 4: brother in law. This guy is married to I believe

215
00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:01,000
Speaker 4: spencer sister.

216
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,040
Speaker 3: Is that correct? Yeah, that's right.

217
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:05,160
Speaker 4: So the brother in law said he was unaware of

218
00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,600
Speaker 4: any past physical abuse or any imminent danger, adding quote,

219
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,360
Speaker 4: if any of us had known that these threats were

220
00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,320
Speaker 4: actually grounded impossibility, we all would have acted differently. Remember

221
00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,240
Speaker 4: we heard from him saying that they knew that there

222
00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:21,600
Speaker 4: was some emotional abuse in that Monique said that she

223
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,839
Speaker 4: was basically changed because of it. Yeah, but they didn't

224
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 4: think there was any They didn't think there was any

225
00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,840
Speaker 4: evidence of physical abuse at all.

226
00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,439
Speaker 2: But it had been ten years, so chances are for

227
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,080
Speaker 2: Monique it's the last thing she wants to talk about.

228
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:35,920
Speaker 3: She started her life over.

229
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:39,600
Speaker 2: She doesn't want these stories, you know, following her and

230
00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,840
Speaker 2: bringing her down. So she's probably not making mention of

231
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,840
Speaker 2: it to everybody under the sun. Right, She's trying to

232
00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,440
Speaker 2: also move on and not be a victim. Right, Yet

233
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:50,559
Speaker 2: here he is lingering.

234
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:50,880
Speaker 3: Right.

235
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:55,080
Speaker 4: Another thing that the brother or the brother in law said,

236
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,839
Speaker 4: he told Good Morning America that more than a thousand

237
00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 4: people attended the Teppe's funeral.

238
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:00,280
Speaker 3: Wow.

239
00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,040
Speaker 4: Remember I told you, like an acquaintance of mine had

240
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,079
Speaker 4: was going to go to the public funeral, and we're

241
00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 4: over a thousand people there.

242
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:09,679
Speaker 3: Wow, that's a lot.

243
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,000
Speaker 5: Really speaks to sort of the support and I mean

244
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,720
Speaker 5: even going back to on the day they were missing,

245
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,920
Speaker 5: the how many people, how many people were giving calls

246
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 5: of saying something is not right, you know, doctor Spencer

247
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,240
Speaker 5: Teppe didn't show up and that's not like him, and

248
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,040
Speaker 5: I can't get in touch with Monique, and that's not

249
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:28,040
Speaker 5: like her, like they were.

250
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think he said that's even more worrisome that

251
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,719
Speaker 4: I can't even get a hold of the wife that

252
00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 4: they seem reliable.

253
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,480
Speaker 2: Right yeah, and by the way, and devoted to each other.

254
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,960
Speaker 2: There doesn't seem to be a ton on him ex

255
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,640
Speaker 2: husband right now, the accused. There's not a lot of

256
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,640
Speaker 2: backstory to be had on him either, just like familial stuff, like,

257
00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,560
Speaker 2: it's pretty limited what we can glean from his background.

258
00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:55,840
Speaker 4: It is interesting there we found a federal civil rights

259
00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,280
Speaker 4: and medical negligence lawsuit filed on June seventh of twenty

260
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,000
Speaker 4: twenty four here in Nevada. And again he's also a

261
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,640
Speaker 4: defendant in that separate and active medical malpractice case in

262
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,960
Speaker 4: Nevada that was set for a jury trial of next

263
00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,440
Speaker 4: for next year, twenty twenty seven. So but there, again

264
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,560
Speaker 4: there's still not a lot of information. But he was

265
00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,000
Speaker 4: involved in two law sits out of Nevada, and when

266
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:18,800
Speaker 4: they went to go serve him, I think a former

267
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,360
Speaker 4: coworker said, he just disappeared.

268
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's been rising. We don't know where he's at.

269
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:24,520
Speaker 3: We don't know where he's at right.

270
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,160
Speaker 4: Another thing that's interesting too is they they believe, the

271
00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,080
Speaker 4: prosecutors allege that these killings were carried out using a

272
00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,959
Speaker 4: firearm equipped with the suppressor like like a muff like

273
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 4: a silencer, which points to that premeditation is I mean,

274
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,640
Speaker 4: he used a silencer, and I hope those babies didn't

275
00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:43,959
Speaker 4: hear it.

276
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 3: I mean, and.

277
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,280
Speaker 4: Maybe that's why they weren't charged. I don't know, or

278
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:50,200
Speaker 4: he wasn't charged with child abuse.

279
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,160
Speaker 3: Of a silencer.

280
00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:54,200
Speaker 2: In general, it's like you think he's one of the

281
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,760
Speaker 2: scariest things. It's like sometimes you'll see it in a movie,

282
00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,080
Speaker 2: but you don't really think about it. This is like

283
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:05,160
Speaker 2: a silencer to a gun. To commit murder is next.

284
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,560
Speaker 4: Level, right, So to sum up again too, he has

285
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,560
Speaker 4: invoked to fit the amendment and has not spoken publicly

286
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 4: or to investigators. Early court records right now in Ohio

287
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,520
Speaker 4: has no defense attorney at the time of indictment, which

288
00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,720
Speaker 4: is interesting. Oh that is I don't think he's pro se.

289
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,080
Speaker 4: I don't think he's going to be defending himself. I

290
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,760
Speaker 4: would imagine, I mean, I don't know if he's indigen.

291
00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,600
Speaker 4: He's a surgeon, but I don't know if he's indigen,

292
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,760
Speaker 4: and he can get a public defender, but I would

293
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,960
Speaker 4: imagine a lawyer would be on the docket fairly soon, right,

294
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:38,560
Speaker 4: fairly soon.

295
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,479
Speaker 3: I mean, this just happened that he was indicted the malpractice.

296
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 5: By the way, as horrible as it is for anyone

297
00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 5: to be involved in being sued, it seems like about

298
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,520
Speaker 5: one in three doctors will be sued at least once

299
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,200
Speaker 5: in their career, and the risk goes up if you're

300
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:55,160
Speaker 5: a surgeon.

301
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,640
Speaker 4: Right, but remember in Nevada, he doesn't e don't have

302
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 4: to have malpractice insurance, so he would be held personal

303
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,440
Speaker 4: only liable for that. Right if he didn't, he might

304
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 4: have had. It doesn't mean that you don't have it.

305
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,760
Speaker 4: It just means it's not a requirement. Right, So he

306
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,600
Speaker 4: could have been held personally maybe maybe personally responsible for that,

307
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,760
Speaker 4: and that could have been a freak out for him moment, right,

308
00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 4: a freak out it would have been for me. I

309
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 4: know that, I know that I wouldn't certainly kill anybody,

310
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 4: but it would be a ooh.

311
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:20,680
Speaker 3: That's a lot.

312
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,600
Speaker 2: You actually feel like you have nothing left to louise

313
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 2: at that point. So this is like you're you're playing

314
00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,200
Speaker 2: all in to play all out. I guess maybe, yeah,

315
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 2: maybe we'll see.

316
00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:33,640
Speaker 5: Listen, yeah, we will see, and we will keep you

317
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,880
Speaker 5: updated and stick around because when we come back. The

318
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:41,640
Speaker 5: Alexander brothers who were once high powered luxury real estate brokers,

319
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:44,720
Speaker 5: guess what there now had it to a federal court

320
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 5: on sex trafficking charges. There's new testimony in the Uvaldi

321
00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 5: school shooting case. And we have Joseph Scott Morgan True

322
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:54,160
Speaker 5: Crime Tonight.

323
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

324
00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,720
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

325
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,320
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and yes, we have body Move in and

326
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 2: we have Taha, our most favorite producer in the studio

327
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,680
Speaker 2: as well. And of course Sam and Adam are standing by.

328
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,240
Speaker 2: If you want to join us live eight eight eight

329
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 2: three one crime, they're the ones who actually answer. Or

330
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 2: you can also leave us a talkback on the iHeartRadio app.

331
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,200
Speaker 2: Remember it's free, you just download it. There's a little

332
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,240
Speaker 2: microphone in the top right hand corner. Push that button,

333
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,400
Speaker 2: leave a message and boom, we'll play it on the show.

334
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 2: You guys have been doing great with your talkbacks. By

335
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,160
Speaker 2: the way, so we are also on Sundays trying to

336
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,880
Speaker 2: set up a new thing where we set up some

337
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 2: cases that we'll be following throughout the week. Just so

338
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 2: you have the basic information on Sundays and then you know,

339
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 2: we'll keep adding to it as the week progresses and

340
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:07,760
Speaker 2: trials continue. For example, this Alexandra, these brothers, these Alexander brothers, Courtney,

341
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,560
Speaker 2: We've been talking about this for so so long. Also

342
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:15,760
Speaker 2: in the same penitentiary jail where Diddy and so many

343
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 2: have now been, we've been covering this very closely as

344
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:19,680
Speaker 2: well in Brooklyn.

345
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:21,840
Speaker 3: Where do we begin with this trial?

346
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 5: Okay, I am so curious to see how this plays out,

347
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:31,120
Speaker 5: because it is it's a disaster. So these Alexander brothers

348
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:37,080
Speaker 5: are facing federal sex trafficking charges and their trial begins

349
00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,960
Speaker 5: this week in Manhattan. So from all the way from

350
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,399
Speaker 5: about two thousand and eight to twenty twenty one, the

351
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,640
Speaker 5: Alexander brothers allegedly ran a scheme to drug, sexually, assault

352
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:53,119
Speaker 5: and rape dozens of women, including some miners. Why we

353
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 5: can't get away from the pedophilia again, Let's just.

354
00:17:55,960 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 4: Get the kids alone, I mean, even just leave kids.

355
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,680
Speaker 2: I feel like there's this this ununnerving, unavoidable title wave

356
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,200
Speaker 2: of having sex with my nurse?

357
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:10,919
Speaker 3: What's going on every story?

358
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,879
Speaker 2: I feel like we cover Sorry not to no, I

359
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:15,760
Speaker 2: added to the list.

360
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,720
Speaker 3: Here we are Miami. Yep.

361
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 5: So these alleged crimes took place across Manhattan, Miami, the Hamptons,

362
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 5: and one instance on.

363
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 3: A cruise ship.

364
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,800
Speaker 5: So the brothers, you might recognize their names. It's a

365
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:38,159
Speaker 5: Tal Alexander and Orrin Alexander and Alan. So Oran and

366
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,240
Speaker 5: Alan are twins. They're thirty eight years old. Tal is

367
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 5: one year older at thirty nine, and the twins were

368
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,240
Speaker 5: former top top top real estate brokers, like selling houses

369
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:54,880
Speaker 5: to the Kardashians, breaking records in sale monster numbers, monster, yeah,

370
00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:00,280
Speaker 5: literal record breakers. And then the older brother as an

371
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 5: executive in the family security firm. So, of course, all

372
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 5: three have denied allegations, and they've been in federal custody

373
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 5: since December twenty twenty four, so they've been in prison

374
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 5: for a minute.

375
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 2: And remember the Diddy trial has since come and gone, right,

376
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:20,360
Speaker 2: so you're curious, at least I am, of how that

377
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,200
Speaker 2: kind of plays out in the courtroom. Is there some

378
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 2: like fatigue about trials like this, given that the charges

379
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:32,280
Speaker 2: are slightly similar, Will it give this more weight because

380
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,400
Speaker 2: people will either do or don't think did he get

381
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 2: a light sentence or he got too heavy of a sentence,

382
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 2: depending upon where you fall in that spectrum.

383
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,639
Speaker 3: How are you going to feel about this next? Again?

384
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 3: Federal charges?

385
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 2: You know, influential, wealthy guys who either are being targeted

386
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 2: or are a little fast and loose with all that cash.

387
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,199
Speaker 3: And money and power in their hands.

388
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 2: And I think that's again the story that we seem

389
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 2: to be hearing on a loop.

390
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 5: Absolutely and interestingly, the trial is slated to happen in

391
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,440
Speaker 5: the very same courtroom as.

392
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 3: Diddies did, so really well, just interesting.

393
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 5: So here's something we'll get into coming up this week.

394
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 5: But there was new reporting that there was a death

395
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 5: last year of a woman named Kate Whitman. She was

396
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,080
Speaker 5: one of the first women to accuse the brothers, and

397
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 5: her death is now under investigation. I'm not a legend

398
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 5: that my brothers had anything to do with it. I'm

399
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 5: always he accuses them.

400
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 2: And then she died, yes, correct, And the cause of

401
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,040
Speaker 2: death is a little I wouldn't say the word is

402
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 2: not suspicious, it's unknown. So as a result, there's still

403
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,360
Speaker 2: an ongoing investigation, which just on its nose sounds curious.

404
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 5: Yes, So just very briefly about the defendants, and then

405
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 5: I think this week we should get more into the

406
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 5: parents because how are three brothers like super close in

407
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 5: age and two of them are twins exactly and you know,

408
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,760
Speaker 5: just one year apart between all three of them. You

409
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 5: know what causes at least all of these allegations. So

410
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,360
Speaker 5: we'll dig into we'll dig into that a little bit.

411
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 5: I lost my train of thought because I got.

412
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 2: So well, you were thinking, like, is there maybe some

413
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,879
Speaker 2: sort of backstory or origin story that's connected to mom,

414
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: given three boys in the same family are all being

415
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:36,160
Speaker 2: charged of really hideous crimes against women, so that you

416
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 2: maybe there is more to how they became what they're

417
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: being appriced of.

418
00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 7: But again, m h yeah, No, I was just going

419
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 7: to say, and I would love to dig into some

420
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 7: of the allegations because I think there are so many

421
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 7: coming up, So I think that's where you're going to

422
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 7: go for.

423
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 3: Exactly, right.

424
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:59,480
Speaker 5: So the charges are wide ranging. It's a federal sex

425
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 5: trafficking by force, fraud, or coercion. It's conspiracy to commit

426
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 5: sex trafficking. There is sexual assault, there is rape. There's

427
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 5: a twelve felon accounts in in the superseding indictment, and

428
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 5: that also includes assault on incapacitated miners.

429
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 2: Stop yes, and in this particular victim's case, who is

430
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 2: now deceased, you know, in Courtney kirkne if I'm wrong,

431
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 2: which she had made the initial claim that she was

432
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 2: literally yanked off the street into an suv and taken

433
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 2: to a location in the Hampton's and sexually assaulted, which

434
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,439
Speaker 2: is pretty primal. I mean, this isn't sort of like

435
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: a confusing claim.

436
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 5: No, And there were you know, some of the allegations

437
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 5: was that some of these attacks were absolutely orchestrated, planned out,

438
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 5: included multiple men, so multiple assailants. At the same time,

439
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 5: there's eight accusers named in the latest indict meant, and

440
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 5: two of those eight are minors, and many are expected

441
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:11,160
Speaker 5: to testify. There's also fifteen additional women who have been.

442
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 4: So twenty three women in total, that's right. Yeah.

443
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:22,360
Speaker 5: And with regard to sort of how did they get

444
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 5: all these women to you know, different places New York

445
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,199
Speaker 5: and the Hamptons, And what the prosecutor say was that

446
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:32,439
Speaker 5: the Alexander brothers use their wealth, social status, access to

447
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 5: luxury travel and events to lure these women. And I mean, look.

448
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: At the places that they're talking about. We're in the Hamptons,

449
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 2: We're in Miami, we're in Las Vegas. I mean these

450
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 2: are private plane. You know, guys, come with us, the

451
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 2: party is just getting started.

452
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 3: Come with us.

453
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 2: And then you you know, unknowingly think you're going to

454
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 2: another another place to go dancing, and yet you're being

455
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 2: dragged another location where you're being drugs and abused. Those

456
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: are the allegations, you know. Add that three brothers times three,

457
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: that's very unusual too to have of three people that

458
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 2: one of them's not like.

459
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 7: This is someone doesn't one out or say this is wrong,

460
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 7: like all three. But to your earlier point, it could

461
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 7: be the upbringing, so I do want to dig into

462
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 7: the family.

463
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 3: Or it could mean that they're innocent.

464
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 2: Either the three of them just are messy and badly

465
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,719
Speaker 2: behaved and people have a thing for accusing them of

466
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: bad behavior because they have deep pockets. Perhaps, or these

467
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 2: guys are are are up to no good.

468
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 5: Well, and to that end, some of the multiple women

469
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,400
Speaker 5: who are making these allegations are some of them are

470
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 5: involved in civil suits and yeah, so the defense is expected.

471
00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 5: We don't know, but they're expected to really probably trash

472
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 5: their credibility.

473
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're going to say they're out for money, right,

474
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 4: They're going to say, look at they didn't even they

475
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 4: didn't even file charges. They wanted to handle things civilly,

476
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 4: and so therefore they were looking for settlement money.

477
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 3: Right, I'm obsessed with settlement money. The hush money is

478
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: something I need because you can't discuss the settlement.

479
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 6: Right.

480
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: I'm just like, how I've been spending my days is

481
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 2: thinking about hush money. But because it's complicated, it's like

482
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,159
Speaker 2: the tier one thing that a victim does need. You

483
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: have recovery, you have therapy, you have you know, just

484
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 2: the doctor's bills and missing work, and you just do

485
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 2: the basics on the math. Right, can you think to yourself,

486
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 2: you can't really put a dollar amount on a person's

487
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: safety that's been now invaded. On the flip of that,

488
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 2: what's the alternative? You come forward, You get a restraining

489
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,040
Speaker 2: order against somebody that just aggravates them, sometimes not always,

490
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 2: but sometimes, and then it continues. You want to speak up. Oh, well,

491
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,400
Speaker 2: then there's somebody getting paid off at every bend. So

492
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 2: for a victim sometimes like just I'll take the money

493
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 2: and just zip. It seems to be the path of

494
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: least resistance, And it's the first thing they point to.

495
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 2: At the same time, as soon as you try to

496
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 2: say there's a problem, right, they just you know, immediately

497
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 2: point to that same piece of paper and then that continues.

498
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

499
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 4: So in another case that we're going to be following

500
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 4: this week, you know, it's the Uvaldi school shooting and

501
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 4: the school resource officer that's on trial. His name is

502
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 4: Adrian Gonsalez, and he's facing twenty nine counts of abandoning

503
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 4: or endangering a child for his inaction during that twenty

504
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 4: twenty two school shooting, where nineteen students and two teachers

505
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 4: were killed. The prosecutors allege that the defendant, Adrian Gonsales,

506
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 4: did not act quickly enough, while the defense argues he

507
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 4: was faced with the chaotic scene, never had the shooter

508
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 4: in sight, and was unfairly blamed for the broader law

509
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 4: enforcement failure. Corporateceeedings have been paused for tomorrow because it

510
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 4: is of the holiday Martin King Junior Day, with testimony

511
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 4: set to resume on Tuesday, January twenty second, And on

512
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 4: Friday it just passed. You know, we weren't on air,

513
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 4: so we weren't able to.

514
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 3: Talk about it.

515
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 4: But on Friday, Texas Ranger Lieutenant Nick Hill testified and

516
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 4: he said that well, he testified that the defendant, Adrian Gonsalez,

517
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 4: had a window of about one minute and four seconds

518
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 4: after he parked his car before Salvador entered the school,

519
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 4: So he was basically outside the school, was Salvador for

520
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 4: about a minute? Shooter the shooter in this kit. Yeah,

521
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 4: Salvador is the shooter. He's a school shooter. Defendant Adrian

522
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 4: Gonsalez took about three minutes and fifty three seconds to

523
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 4: enter the school after parking his car.

524
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 3: That's a really long time.

525
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: So he gets there, he parks his car, and he

526
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 4: waits almost four minutes. That's between the time he parks

527
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 4: his car right and he walks into the school. But

528
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 4: he was outside of the car for about a minute

529
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 4: and four seconds with the shooter. So but here's the

530
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 4: thing though, on cross on cross, the the Texas ranger

531
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 4: Nick Hill acknowledged during cross examination that three other officers

532
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 4: arrived shortly after about thirty seconds after the defendant ady

533
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,479
Speaker 4: or Gonsales could and it would have more easily been

534
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 4: able to spot the gunmen. So there's basically three other

535
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 4: officers that he's throwing under the bus for defenses. Hey, like,

536
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 4: there's three other guys there, Why is my guy, you know,

537
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 4: being held responsible for the broader law enforcement failure.

538
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 3: That's interesting. What's the answer. I don't know.

539
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 2: Well, they just need to raised the question. Yeah, they

540
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 2: need they just need their answer. Why is this one person?

541
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 2: If there were three others?

542
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: He was there first? I think is the minute? Is

543
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 3: that what we're talking by? One minute?

544
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 4: Well, he was outside with the shooter and he says

545
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 4: he didn't see the shooter, right, But he was outside

546
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 4: with the outside of the school for a minute and

547
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 4: four seconds before the shooter even went into the school.

548
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 4: And I think that's the that's the position that the

549
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 4: states or the prosecute sing.

550
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he also worked at the school.

551
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,520
Speaker 5: I think that probably has some so he would have

552
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 5: been the most familiar. Of course, we've mentioned this before.

553
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: The chief of police his trial will also be beginning,

554
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 5: and I guess we can hear I think.

555
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 3: The conceit too.

556
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: This is the chatter online because I know we've talked

557
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: about it, and I vacillate on this and in my opinion,

558
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: frankly doesn't count. But in reality, I guess you're a school,

559
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: you're you're you're the guy, you're the cop at the school,

560
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 2: you're a security So the assertion is you're going to

561
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: put your life before the lives of these many kids

562
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 2: that have, you know, big lives ahead.

563
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 3: So he didn't take the bullet. It really is what

564
00:29:58,680 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: is happening right now.

565
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 2: So now he has to take it for the team

566
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: on the other side, is what it seems like.

567
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 3: And yeah, this is a lose lose.

568
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 4: It is a lose lose, and I think they're going

569
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 4: to have a hard time getting over the fact that,

570
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 4: you know, this Texas Ranger Nick Hill said basically that

571
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 4: those other officers would have had better opportunity to have

572
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 4: the school shooter in their sights. I think that's I

573
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 4: think that's really you know, gonna maybe have some play.

574
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 4: So if he's convicted, he faces up to two years

575
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 4: in prison for this. Of course, you know the police

576
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 4: chief is going to have his trial too. He's gonna

577
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 4: he's that And I think that one might actually have

578
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 4: something there, There might be some meat on the bones.

579
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 3: Well, you just don't know if they have it with

580
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 3: this guy.

581
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 5: It's tough, and especially when you break it down like

582
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 5: you just did in literally second by second, great intervals

583
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 5: versus the police chief with four hundred men and women

584
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 5: armed behind his back and seventy seven minutes to sort

585
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 5: out right what to do?

586
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: Right, So there's I think they're going to have I

587
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 4: think I think the jury is going to remember that

588
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 4: there were three other officers there, I mean specifically from

589
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 4: the Texas Ranger that could have had the sky in

590
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 4: their sights and such a.

591
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 2: Bummer for their victims. Families have to hear this. You

592
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 2: do the math in your head and you're like, come on,

593
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 2: it's tell me you just didn't wimp out. But at

594
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: the same time, what are we saying like you should.

595
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, it sounds like that's what happened, But we're gonna

596
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 4: we're gonna keep following that and keep everybody update.

597
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: I didn't even ask you guys, did you guys have

598
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: a good weekend? I did. I have a little throat.

599
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 3: Both have a littlething. I have a little in my throat.

600
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 5: I was just opening up a new bag of hauls

601
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 5: for that reason.

602
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was really quick. Did ta get us

603
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: all sick?

604
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 6: I think? Sorry, you told me.

605
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: It went by so quick too.

606
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 4: I mean, I but I was kind of like in

607
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 4: the news this weekend, Like I was, I was kind

608
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 4: of a news found this weekend, and so it went

609
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 4: by just so quick, and I feel like I didn't

610
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 4: get any rest, So I'm going to have a very

611
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 4: sluggish week ahead of me.

612
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 2: Well, we get to be together a little bit at

613
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: the end. I tried to order your special drink, the

614
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: Medicine Mall, the Medicine Ball from Starbucks, but by.

615
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 3: The time I got there it was already closed. No.

616
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 2: No, yeah, So anyway tomorrow, first thing in the morning.

617
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: Okay, you go, let's go to.

618
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 8: A talk back now, all right, Hi, ta haas Angels.

619
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 8: I just wanted to say that Congress can subpoena for

620
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 8: legislative and oversight purposes. I think the Clintons and their

621
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 8: lawyers have a compelling case that their subpoena is to

622
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 8: serve a political purpose, which would be an abuse of power,

623
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 8: mostly because they provided written testimony which was allowed by

624
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 8: everyone else except them. Also, given that the DJ has

625
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 8: hinted at a criminal investigation to their involvement, their testimony

626
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 8: should be in a courtroom, not in DC.

627
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 3: Seas from Rhode Island, Sebastian, you make a lot of

628
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: good points.

629
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: About Look, when are you going to come in live?

630
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 2: We need to do weekly updates with Sebastian. That just

631
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 2: was really He's.

632
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 4: Right though, so yeah, and that's what the Clintons are saying, right.

633
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 4: The Clintons are saying like, hey, you know, everybody else

634
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 4: was able to submit, you know, written testimony.

635
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 3: If we're going to.

636
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 4: Be subpoena in front of Congress, we want it to

637
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,960
Speaker 4: be a public hearing. We want this to be public,

638
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 4: and you want to do it behind closed doors, and

639
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 4: we're not okay with it.

640
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 3: Now. I do like that public hearing piece of it, me.

641
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 4: Too, I do, but that I still, in the back

642
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 4: of my head feel that nobody should resist a subpoena

643
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 4: from Congress.

644
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,440
Speaker 3: And I agree, you know what I mean.

645
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 2: And by the way, if you have nothing to hide,

646
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: wouldn't you just want to say, look look at me,

647
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 2: I'm setting the example I'm going to I'm.

648
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 4: Going to be and they did it worse is I

649
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 4: think what they're afraid of, and I kind of don't

650
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 4: blame them a little bit, is that you know their

651
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 4: words are going to be twisted. This isn't going to

652
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 4: be in public. The public is going to be able

653
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 4: to see their words directly coming out of their mouths,

654
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 4: that you are going to be twisted.

655
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 3: To friends live.

656
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, it should be live, and it should at this

657
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 2: point the public wants to know. And how about the

658
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: fact that the DOJ sent out a like a little

659
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,760
Speaker 2: change to the system over the weekend. Body, you posted

660
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 2: about this, but I did Saturday night over the weekend,

661
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 2: as if we all don't have a lot going on

662
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: that you're not trying to slip one by the goalie.

663
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: I agree, Well should have come in in my opinion,

664
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: and equally this should not have happened either.

665
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Body.

666
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 4: It was filed late Friday night, so it could be

667
00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 4: you know, you could think, maybe we're very late Friday night.

668
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 4: And it's you know, the latest motion. It's from the

669
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 4: US Department of Justice, and it's in relation to the

670
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:51,760
Speaker 4: Epstein files, specifically the filing asking a federal judge to

671
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 4: deny the special you know, master independent monitor to release

672
00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 4: the files.

673
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 3: And it was filed on Friday.

674
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 4: The filing made by DJ leadership, including attorneys like Jay

675
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 4: Clayton on behalf of the Department in a letter to

676
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 4: US District Judge Paul Engelmeyer, and it's responding to a

677
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 4: request from Representatives Rocanna and Thomas Massey. The DJ is

678
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 4: arguing that the lawmakers okay, the lawmakers get this black

679
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,880
Speaker 4: the legal standing to intervene in the criminal case, and

680
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 4: that there's no authority for appointing a special master to

681
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 4: oversee the document release. So they're they're saying that we

682
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 4: don't want this special independent oversight. They already agree to

683
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 4: it right now, but now they're saying they don't soasies.

684
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: But they can't say vaccines on these things though, can you?

685
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: Legal looks like to me, I don't know. We're just

686
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: going to apply. It's only going to it's as bad listen.

687
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: I think the Clintons should not be just pointing backward

688
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: and saying, well you do it.

689
00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:58,919
Speaker 3: Neither should I.

690
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,800
Speaker 2: And in this case, you can't agree to a law

691
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: that you sign into.

692
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 3: You've signed it.

693
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 2: We were going to get the redacted files right by

694
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 2: the end of the year.

695
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 4: The lawmakers, the Thomas Massey Congress basically is saying the

696
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 4: Justice Department has failed to meet the statutory deadlines in

697
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 4: the Epstein files.

698
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 3: Transparency you're trying, which is a fact.

699
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 4: That's a fact, and only a tiny fraction of documents

700
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 4: have been released fact, and that the release process has

701
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 4: been slow and poorly managed.

702
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 3: Fact.

703
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 4: So they want this independent kind of like oversight on

704
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 4: it right. The DOJ's position is that Congress members do

705
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 4: not have legal standing in the case to seek this

706
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 4: kind of relief. A judge doesn't have the authority to

707
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 4: appoint a monitor because they are not parties to the

708
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 4: case and the statute doesn't provide a private right of action.

709
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 4: The Department also underscores how massive the review task is.

710
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 4: There's millions and millions of pages. I thought it was

711
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 4: nothing to look at though there was nothing. It was

712
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 4: a hoax. There is nothing there. Why is it taking now?

713
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: Suddenly there's so much there that it can't be such

714
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 2: through a a in a meaningful way. That is not

715
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 2: going to take months. Right now, they're just saying it

716
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 2: can't come at all.

717
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 4: So now it's in judge at the judge Ingelemeyer's hand,

718
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 4: and now they have to decide whether to allow the

719
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 4: outside oversight of the document release right to Basically that

720
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 4: would be denying the DJ's request or granting it, and

721
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 4: that would just let the DJ have their own interpretation,

722
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 4: their own interpretation.

723
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 2: I mean, again, the DOJ does very important, big things.

724
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 3: We respect the DOJ. They're up to a lot.

725
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: This is a very poor example of how a lot

726
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 2: is handled.

727
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 3: Right, We're going to stay on top of it.

728
00:37:55,920 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 4: You know, obviously we have made a promise to ourselves

729
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 4: and you that we are not going to stop talking

730
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 4: about the release of the Epstein files. We are not

731
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 4: going to get distracted. Right, We're not going to do it,

732
00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 4: and we're going to keep talking about it. And we'll

733
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 4: let you know what the judge. The judge decides, they

734
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 4: can try, right.

735
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 5: I will be so curious what this judge does decide.

736
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 5: Pardon me, I'm one of the three of Taha's angels

737
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 5: with the frog in my throat.

738
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 3: This is true Crumb. Tonight we are on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney.

739
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 5: I'm here with the Body Movement and Stephanie Leidecker. We've

740
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 5: been talking about the release or lack thereof, of the

741
00:38:33,719 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 5: Epstein files and we will continue with that when we

742
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 5: have more information and stuff evolves. And right now we

743
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 5: are going to hear from you with another talk.

744
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 9: Oh it's Aliah from BC Canada. Ice agents are dumb

745
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,400
Speaker 9: and they are not properly trained, and they are given

746
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 9: way too much allowance to cause havoc violence than they

747
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 9: should be allowed to have. But I mean, well, I'm

748
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 9: just a Canadian. So I really don't get a dog

749
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 9: in this fight at all, but we're all angry for

750
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 9: is good.

751
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:15,240
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm.

752
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 5: We'll take your Canadian dog in this fight any day.

753
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 3: Thank you for that talk back.

754
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 4: You know what, it's such a complicated, innuanced situation. If

755
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 4: Ice was arresting you know, MS thirteen gang members and

756
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 4: you know things like that. I think most people, you know,

757
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 4: still want due process right as guarantee of fourteenth Amendment. Right,

758
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 4: we still want those things, but I think we would

759
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 4: be a little more like, okay, right, but now you

760
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 4: know they're they're they're rusting people at work. Okay, they're

761
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 4: rusting people in teachers at school, they're pulling teachers out

762
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 4: of classrooms.

763
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 2: No, it's nice, it's the optics are so incredibly scary.

764
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: And what do we say to the opposing thought, which is,

765
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 2: I is putting their lives on the line by the

766
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: directive of their boss. They don't have agency of their

767
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 2: own individual ability to pick and choose.

768
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 3: What they have to act upon.

769
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 2: They're following whatever training they received, whether that's forty seven

770
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,760
Speaker 2: days or forty seven years. After a six minute interview,

771
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: what do we say to their mom or their sister

772
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: who's like, look, this is becoming very dangerous. And now

773
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 2: this is escalating to a point that everyone's saying, oh,

774
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 2: the masked men.

775
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 4: I wouldn't stop for a masked men. I'm sorry, I wouldn't.

776
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 4: Would you wearing the masks? What was the reasoning behind

777
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 4: the mask?

778
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 3: They've been wearing the mask the whole time? But why,

779
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 3: like law enforcement, because they know what they're doing.

780
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 4: Is shady, and they don't want to be docs. They

781
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,520
Speaker 4: don't want to be found out because their lives could

782
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 4: be in danger for sure, like for I mean, I

783
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 4: don't listen again, it would be so wrong to hurt

784
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 4: somebody in my opinion, of course, no, I mean I

785
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 4: would never suggest that somebody physically harm an ICE agent

786
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 4: right under any circumstances. But they're hiding their identity because

787
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 4: they know what they're doing a shady So is.

788
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 3: There an actual answer to that? Is that an opinion answer? Answer?

789
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 3: That is my opinion. It's excited. Both are fair. I'm

790
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 3: just excited by ICE.

791
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 5: It's it is both officer safety to protect themselves from

792
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 5: threats and assaults.

793
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 2: Why don't police officers like who are banding correctly? Which

794
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 2: you know this this this force of police officers in

795
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 2: this specific area unfortunately, has had a lot to come

796
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: back from poison, you know, post George Floyd, like there's

797
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: been They're working real hard.

798
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 3: So how does that make sense? It doesn't.

799
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 5: Well, it's also different rationales, even the you know, the approach,

800
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 5: and I think it does go back a lot to

801
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 5: the training. By the way, a second reason is exactly

802
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 5: what you said, body the ICE agents wear the mask

803
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 5: to prevent doxing, So that's why.

804
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: But to that end, though, we're asking police officers who

805
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,919
Speaker 2: are putting their lives on the line to wear body cams.

806
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 3: And that they're the opposite of.

807
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: Identify themselves, and they have to identify themselves and you

808
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,000
Speaker 2: know there's a decorum, whereas in Ice they're not wearing

809
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 2: body cams and they're covering their faces. I know there

810
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: is an answer to this, that is I think somebody

811
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 2: has it.

812
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 3: That's what it is.

813
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,439
Speaker 4: Wow, that's the answer. I mean, yeah, what Courtney said

814
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 4: is the answer. So it's like I said, I know

815
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 4: it's complicated. I know it's nuanced. I have my the

816
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 4: way I feel about it. You know, again, there you know,

817
00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 4: if if these illegal aliens, as they say, were here,

818
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 4: you know, taking you know, working, they were taking all

819
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,239
Speaker 4: the taxpayers money, living off the you know, their all

820
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 4: these benefits we give them. They wouldn't be arresting them

821
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 4: at work, period, including my own family. It's terrorizing, period,

822
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 4: terrib Well, thank you for the talk back, Yes, thank.

823
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 3: You them coming though, Yeah, let's go to another.

824
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 10: Hey, ladies, just wanted to say thank you to Body

825
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 10: for stepping up and putting for her opinion. I think

826
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 10: it reflects a lot what a lot of us have seen.

827
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 10: And yeah, I keep doing your body because it's great.

828
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 3: Thanks.

829
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 4: You know, I was terrified to all this. We got

830
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 4: a lot of feedback and I was scared. I was like,

831
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 4: I'm gonna get here.

832
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: No, everyone's been really gracious, you know, work wise that

833
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,359
Speaker 2: we're you know, yeah, scary, but they.

834
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 3: Know thank you. Yeah, it's.

835
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 4: It's it's crazy that you have to be scared to

836
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,760
Speaker 4: say the right thing and stand up for humans, human beings,

837
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 4: mothers and fathers. Kids are at school coming home to

838
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 4: a house that's been basically broken into because their parents

839
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 4: have been taken.

840
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 3: Like, I'm not okay with it. I'm not.

841
00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 5: My friend who lives right really right near where everything

842
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 5: is centered in Minneapolis. She volunteers as just an observer

843
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 5: at a neighborhood nearby, and she stands at a bus

844
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 5: stop and she says, routinely the ICE agents come and

845
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 5: these are children, they're not gang members, they're children at

846
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 5: a school bus stop, and they will get ridiculed by

847
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 5: ICE agents.

848
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 3: Well, they get taunted, right, get taunted.

849
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,959
Speaker 4: There's so many videos of ICE agents taunting people because

850
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 4: they I feel like they want an escalation.

851
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: I don't know.

852
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 5: And then in the same breath, you know, Stephanie, as

853
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 5: you mentioned, these are people, this is their job, you know,

854
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 5: and they are largely following orders.

855
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 3: It's devisive, it's complicated.

856
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 4: It is I know, it's very nuanced, and I know

857
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 4: I feel very strongly about it.

858
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 2: And I protected and for all the right reasons. I mean,

859
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: it's just it's a brutal time. I just don't know how.

860
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 2: I don't know how we get productive from here, right,

861
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: because no matter what any of us say, there's like

862
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: a there's.

863
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 4: A what if another side and the other side of

864
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 4: the prain.

865
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 9: Right.

866
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 4: I'm just not okay with, you know, federal agents walking

867
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,400
Speaker 4: around asking people for identification. I was I saw a

868
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 4: I was watching a YouTube live and somebody was on

869
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 4: the panel saying they were totally okay with carrying their

870
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 4: passport around to show federal authorities their papers when they

871
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 4: were asked, and I was like, that is not something

872
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 4: that we do in the United States of America. We

873
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 4: do not show papers. In fact, my grandfather actively fought

874
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 4: and died because of it. Like, who are we We're Americans,

875
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 4: We're supposed to be the best country in the world.

876
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 3: We need to start acting like it.

877
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 2: I know.

878
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 3: And it's like we're feeding into it. No matter which

879
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 3: side you fall on it, you're so right, we're feeding

880
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 3: into it.

881
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 2: Hunt, I don't know what the answer is, and I

882
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 2: want to so deeply.

883
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 3: You're right by way everybody.

884
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: There's like a slice of rightness to all of it,

885
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,160
Speaker 2: and right in the middle is like a mess that

886
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: I feel like we have to like fight through.

887
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:12,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what the answer is, though I

888
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 3: don't either. I wish I did.

889
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 4: If I did, I would, I would definitely be making

890
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 4: a lot more money somewhere.

891
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 5: I was gonna say, I think many many people are

892
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 5: searching for whatever they the answer, the compromise, the willingness

893
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 5: to communicate like whatever it, whatever it is, that can

894
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 5: de escalate this.

895
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 3: Is it going to de escalate?

896
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: Like every time I look at a news there's just

897
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: like more tear gas and smoke gas.

898
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 4: Well, Tim Watts called in a National Guard. Maybe that

899
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 4: might help some de escalation, you know what I mean. Well,

900
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 4: hopefully we'll pray for that and then you know, hopefully

901
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 4: pray for Minnesota to get through this.

902
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, absolutely stick around.

903
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 5: Coming up, our man forensic expert, Joseph Scott Morgan joins

904
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 5: us right after the break and we're talking about the

905
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 5: off Hair murder case.

906
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 3: Keep it here, True Crime Tonight.

907
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:17,280
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

908
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney

909
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 2: Armstrong and Body Move in and listen. We have some

910
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 2: guaranteed forensics expert chatter coming up from Joseph Scott Morgan.

911
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 2: He's going to be joining us very shortly to talk

912
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: about all of our forensics questions that we've been piling

913
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,919
Speaker 2: up throughout the week. If you want to join us live,

914
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 2: you can do that eight eight eight three one Crime

915
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 2: or again, keep those talkbacks coming and again, if you

916
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 2: call in live, you might get Sam or Adams. So

917
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 2: I don't know what more enticing, what more enticing we

918
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 2: can possibly do?

919
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,879
Speaker 3: Courtney, what do you think? I don't know. I don't think.

920
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 5: I mean honestly, between that and calling tonight to get

921
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 5: to actually ask your question to Joseph Scott Morgan and

922
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,480
Speaker 5: hear that. That's just perfect deep baritone voice answering your

923
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 5: questions at all, but feels nice on a wintery night when.

924
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 3: You put it like that.

925
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 2: So, yes, the Ohio, you know, we're obviously going to

926
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 2: be discussing the forensics in that case and body any.

927
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 3: That you're looking to talk about with Joseph.

928
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,399
Speaker 4: Oh, I have this really crazy case of this well

929
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 4: I don't want to get too far into it, but

930
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 4: she's a former contestant that poisoned some miners with mushrooms,

931
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,520
Speaker 4: and I know Joseph is super into that, so I

932
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:38,439
Speaker 4: kind of want to have him talk to me about

933
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 4: it that so stay tuned for that.

934
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 3: By the way, He's not super into people dying. No,

935
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 3: he's interested in the forensics.

936
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 2: I'm really interested in the forensics of poison, that's for sure.

937
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 2: Things that we often say, but we were like that

938
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,600
Speaker 2: has Joseph's staying written all.

939
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 4: I saw this case and I was like, I gotta

940
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 4: talk to Joseph about this one because he's always talking

941
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,719
Speaker 4: about that one in Australia with the poison mushrooms.

942
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 3: He really is.

943
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this was poisoned raspberries. So yeah, I'm excited

944
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:08,920
Speaker 4: to talk to him about it.

945
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 3: Welcome Joseph. Oh we can't hear him Sunday.

946
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,760
Speaker 11: Hi, Hey, hey guys. I love raspberries, how about you? Guys?

947
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 3: I knew it.

948
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 11: I know it iberries over the course of my career,

949
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 11: you know, from the audience, and that's the goodness.

950
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, that kind of raspberry. It's not that kind of raspberri.

951
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 4: It's kind of rat It's chocolate covered raspberries.

952
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 11: For that even more so I love them, Yes, absolutely.

953
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 3: I do too, that's right.

954
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 11: Yeah.

955
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,520
Speaker 5: Well, I would love to get into this or a

956
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,719
Speaker 5: pair case if I may, because we have a lot

957
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 5: of questions and these guys have a lot of explains.

958
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,720
Speaker 5: So the third day of Bread Banfield's murder trial came

959
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 5: and went and jurors were shown really graphic crime scene

960
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,120
Speaker 5: photos as well as other evidence that highlights the defendant,

961
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 5: Brendan Banfield's alleged affair with his Brazilian A pair Juliana

962
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:22,040
Speaker 5: Magalis twenty five years old. Now the prosecutors are claiming

963
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:28,800
Speaker 5: that Bandon and the all Pair conspired to kill Brandon

964
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 5: Banfield's wife as well as Joseph Ryan, who was a

965
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 5: stranger to them. There was a huge elaborate plan. So basically,

966
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 5: the defendant, Brendan Banfield and the all Pair story older

967
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 5: than time. I mean, there's probably caveman paintings of this.

968
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 5: They were having an affair, the man of the house

969
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 5: and the nanny. So the defendant, Brendan Banfield, is like, well,

970
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 5: getting a divorce is going to be way too spendy,

971
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 5: and also I worry about custom and therefore he concocted

972
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:07,160
Speaker 5: a plan along with the AU pair too, Okay, we're

973
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 5: going to make it look like a home intrusion.

974
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 3: And so the defendant, with the help of the U.

975
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 5: Pair, created a fake account on a BDSM on a

976
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 5: fetish website and lured this man who has lost his life,

977
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 5: thirty nine year old Joseph Ryan. Well, they pretended to

978
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 5: be his wife, right, they pretended to be his wife.

979
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 5: That's exactly the right body and the proposal or the

980
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 5: you know, in Joseph Ryan's mind. Consensual agreement was, Hey,

981
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 5: we're going to have a little kink role play, totally consensual.

982
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 5: We're adults. I'm going to come over. And this brainchild

983
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,879
Speaker 5: was Brandon Banfield. Then you know, Joseph Ryan came in

984
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 5: and then he ended up the defendant allegedly ended up

985
00:51:56,040 --> 00:52:00,040
Speaker 5: stabbing his wife Christine to death in the neck and

986
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 5: shooting Joseph Ryan. And then the nanny gave Joseph Ryan

987
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:06,520
Speaker 5: a shot as well.

988
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 3: So there we have it. Now, Joseph, talk.

989
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 5: To us about this crime scene, what sort of Yeah,

990
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 5: give us your thoughts.

991
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 11: Well, you know, this is this is a particular area

992
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,440
Speaker 11: in forensics that we study on a regular basis. As

993
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 11: a matter of fact, there are literally weak long seminars

994
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 11: that we as forensic scientists will attend on stage stage deaths,

995
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,839
Speaker 11: and many times, many times this is not typical, all right,

996
00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 11: where you stage it so that it looks like you've

997
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 11: got a homicide, that is a homicide that was committed

998
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 11: by somebody else other than by whom it was committed

999
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:57,360
Speaker 11: most of the time, most of the time, and in

1000
00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 11: my experience as well, it is a staged suicide to

1001
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 11: cover up a homicide. Okay, So that would that would

1002
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:12,680
Speaker 11: make this very very complex. The most common type of

1003
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 11: staged suicide and from my perspective and certainly from the

1004
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 11: ones I've worked, are consistently hanging because you can create

1005
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 11: marks on the neck and then suspend somebody afterwards. And

1006
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 11: you know, so this is I would say, in the

1007
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 11: whole realm of things. This is a bit more of

1008
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 11: an outlayer as far as this, so you know some

1009
00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 11: of the things that we're going to First off, the

1010
00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 11: main font of information in any case like this is

1011
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:48,799
Speaker 11: going to be direct eyewitness statements. Okay, if you have

1012
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 11: somebody that is claiming that this is what happened, then

1013
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,240
Speaker 11: you're really going to want to intensely interview them. Notice

1014
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 11: I don't say intiate, you want to actively listen. And

1015
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 11: one of the biggest problems that people have as investigators,

1016
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,560
Speaker 11: and I'm chief amongst sinners, all right, certainly when I

1017
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 11: was very young, I like to hear myself talk. You

1018
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 11: have to know when to shut your mouth and allow

1019
00:54:17,600 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 11: the people to talk, because therein is going to rest

1020
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 11: the key to everything else. Are the statements consistent? Because

1021
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 11: you can you can walk into a into a scene,

1022
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,480
Speaker 11: particularly if you're looking at blood patterns, that are just

1023
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:36,120
Speaker 11: not necessarily consistent with the story you're being given, and

1024
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 11: you want to listen and you'll repeat questions or you'll

1025
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 11: try to frame questions in a different way to arrive

1026
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:44,080
Speaker 11: at another conclusion, or to test to see if they're

1027
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 11: actually consistent in what they're saying. So these are highly

1028
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 11: complex cases to have to deal with. And of course,

1029
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 11: you know, for me, as as I've often said on

1030
00:54:55,760 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 11: True Crome Tonight, is that the truth will more more

1031
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 11: than likely rest in the science. That's where it's really

1032
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 11: going to. You know where you're going to face and

1033
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,960
Speaker 11: hopefully not experienced famine, but you know that's where you're

1034
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 11: going to go back to because that is a solid

1035
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 11: rock that you can kind of anchor yourself in, and

1036
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:18,919
Speaker 11: then everything else just kind of revolves around it.

1037
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 3: Interesting.

1038
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 5: Interesting, Well, this this crime scene, it was a doozy again.

1039
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 5: There there was a stabbing as well as multiple gunshots too.

1040
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 4: So just to clarify really quick, in the in the

1041
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 4: conversations that this fake you know account was having with

1042
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:45,239
Speaker 4: Jonathan Ryan, they asked him, you know, we want to

1043
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 4: do some role play, so make sure you bring like

1044
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 4: a knife and some restraints. And by the way, when

1045
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 4: they were having these conversations, they made sure to only

1046
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,560
Speaker 4: do it when the wife was home so that if

1047
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 4: investigators are researching this tryst you know, quote unquote trust

1048
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:03,360
Speaker 4: that they were having it would look legitimate.

1049
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:03,719
Speaker 8: Right.

1050
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 4: So, I mean, this is diabolical planning that went into this,

1051
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 4: like they were.

1052
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: They were precise with this stuff. It's it's interesting, So what.

1053
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 11: Does that go to? You know when you begin to

1054
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 11: think about this. Not every state has has this, but

1055
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,600
Speaker 11: they have some semblance of it. When you begin to

1056
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 11: think about a premeditative event, right, and of course, with

1057
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 11: a premeditative event and purposely when somebody enters into conspiring

1058
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 11: because this is the ultimate conspiracy, right, you know, people

1059
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:39,440
Speaker 11: from around the term conspiracy, but the true meaning of

1060
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 11: the conspiratorial event where you've got two parties that are

1061
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 11: entering into deceive and ultimately entering into a deceptive practice

1062
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,239
Speaker 11: where somebody is going to lose their life and it

1063
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,880
Speaker 11: has to be practiced. That's the other element to this

1064
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:58,320
Speaker 11: because it's so complex. It's almost like watching at taango.

1065
00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,560
Speaker 11: You know, it's every move mean something? Okay, and do

1066
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 11: you are you sophisticated enough intellectually? I think as an

1067
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:09,200
Speaker 11: investigator to be able to kind of understand that and

1068
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 11: see where the fault lines are here.

1069
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:14,839
Speaker 4: I have another follow up question, if it's okay, Courtney, Sure,

1070
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 4: of course. So this happened in October of twenty twenty three,

1071
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 4: and he wasn't arrested until September of twenty twenty four.

1072
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 4: You know, it was almost a year, right, So yeah,

1073
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 4: so they must have bought it at first, right, or

1074
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,040
Speaker 4: maybe they didn't really buy it that this was a

1075
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 4: home invasion, but they maybe suspected something else might have

1076
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 4: gone wrong.

1077
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 3: Now we know that the.

1078
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 4: Husband, the suspect in this case, is the one who

1079
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 4: stabbed his wife right in the neck, but they made

1080
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 4: it look like it was the other victim, Jonathan, that

1081
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 4: did it.

1082
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 3: Right.

1083
00:57:54,640 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 4: Is there anything forensically that would be on the husband's

1084
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 4: hand or you know, anything like that to indicate used

1085
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 4: a knife or or the victim's hand.

1086
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 3: Is there is there anything?

1087
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 11: Oh? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, that's an excellent question about it.

1088
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,280
Speaker 11: You know, when you think about it, knife or sharp

1089
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 11: force injuries if you I like to use the term

1090
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 11: sharp force injuries because it's all encompassing. Because sharp force

1091
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,120
Speaker 11: injuries are not merely stab wounds that can be cuts.

1092
00:58:26,560 --> 00:58:29,520
Speaker 11: They can be puncture wounds and cuts are different than

1093
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 11: puncture ones are different than stab wounds.

1094
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 9: Uh.

1095
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,000
Speaker 11: And then you have slices, okay, or in sized ones.

1096
00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 11: So you think about that dynamic. And I don't know,

1097
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 11: you guys, tell me, can you imagine any more intimate

1098
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 11: methodology of chilling right outside of outside of sharp force injury?

1099
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:51,320
Speaker 11: I mean, you could say bludgeoning, but you know what

1100
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 11: I'm saying, you've got a club or baseball bad, you're

1101
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,840
Speaker 11: beating somebody, but you're still I'm not gonna say at

1102
00:58:56,920 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 11: arm's length. You've still got some distance nice that way, yes,

1103
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 11: or just not that way. It is up close and personal.

1104
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 11: So what you're going to be looking for on on

1105
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 11: let's say, let's just say the the alleged perpetrator, the

1106
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 11: original alleged perpetrator. If you're trying to say this is

1107
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,960
Speaker 11: a home invasion, that sort of thing, you're going to

1108
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 11: look for transfer evidence on that individual's hands, okay, just

1109
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 11: to say if you can confirm it, because along with

1110
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:31,160
Speaker 11: stab wounds, this is a messy business for the individual

1111
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 11: that is instigating this because there will be transferred I

1112
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 11: don't know of any case that I've worked or covered

1113
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,960
Speaker 11: where a perpetrator did not have blood that transferred onto

1114
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 11: not just their hands, but their person from the victim

1115
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 11: of the person of the victim that they are attacking. Okay,

1116
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:52,080
Speaker 11: and you have to you have to pay close attention

1117
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 11: to that. And then once you begin to develop things,

1118
00:59:56,240 --> 01:00:00,200
Speaker 11: and let's say they're thinking that this that you know

1119
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,360
Speaker 11: that there's a rat in the nest at this point

1120
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 11: in time, as far as the cops are thinking, you've

1121
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 11: got to get on this guy. Initially, Now, if it

1122
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 11: were me, I would want to take pictures of all

1123
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 11: of the hands of everybody involved in this, because it's

1124
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 11: at that moment time you can freeze it, even if

1125
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,640
Speaker 11: they're not under suspicion. At that moment time, if you

1126
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 11: occupy the space, come over here, step into the light.

1127
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 11: This person's going to take pictures of your hands. We

1128
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 11: need to see the palms of your hands. We need

1129
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 11: to see the backs of your hands, because you know

1130
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 11: what was it. You guys said it took them a

1131
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,920
Speaker 11: long time to hook the guy on the charges. Well,

1132
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 11: by that period of time, By that period of time,

1133
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 11: I know this is rather obvious. And our fans are

1134
01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 11: certainly very bright. They've seen enough. Right by that period

1135
01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 11: of time, any kind of slice. Just think about it

1136
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 11: at home. If you slice your finger, you slash your hand, Dude,

1137
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,560
Speaker 11: a year from now, it's going to be gone. You

1138
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 11: probably wouldn't even remember it unless it was really, really,

1139
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 11: really brutal. So the smallest little nick on somebody's hands,

1140
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:04,640
Speaker 11: it can be in the webbing of the fingers, the

1141
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 11: tips of the fingers. You gotta take pictures of that

1142
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 11: early on. And you know, and I'm wondering if that,

1143
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,840
Speaker 11: if that was follow through with in this case.

1144
01:01:14,040 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 3: I yeah, I don't know about that.

1145
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:21,840
Speaker 5: And the pictures that I've seen, there were no pictures,

1146
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:29,479
Speaker 5: that's correct. We did get testimony from Catherine Colombo. She's

1147
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 5: a forensic scientist, and according to her testimony, I found.

1148
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:35,160
Speaker 11: Known for a forensic scientist.

1149
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 3: By the way, it is, yes it is. Can you

1150
01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:42,160
Speaker 3: imagine what else could you be in life? Right?

1151
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 11: Wait, one more question, I got one more question for you.

1152
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

1153
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:55,520
Speaker 5: So, according to Colombo's testimony, there was no blood found

1154
01:01:55,760 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 5: on the defendant Brian Banfield's hands, and Lumble also did

1155
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:06,160
Speaker 5: confirm that simply washing your hands can remove blood DNA evidence,

1156
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 5: and another officer testified that Brenda Banfield did indeed wash

1157
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 5: his hands at the hospital after the killings.

1158
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,360
Speaker 3: I just can't get over all the planning that went

1159
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:20,120
Speaker 3: into this. I just can't get over it.

1160
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 5: And listen, there's a lot more to get into. So

1161
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 5: we're actually going yeah, so we're going to bring that

1162
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:27,840
Speaker 5: into the next segment as long as you guys are

1163
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 5: cool to. Uh I didn't know there was keep talking

1164
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:35,360
Speaker 5: about it, but yeah, there's many questions and uh yes,

1165
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:39,720
Speaker 5: stick around because Joseph Morgan is sticking around with us,

1166
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 5: our forensic expert. And again we're going to be continuing

1167
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 5: this case. Prepare to be surprised, and then we're going

1168
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 5: to get into Bodyboo's Shark Tank contestant poisoning case. Keep

1169
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 5: it here at True Crime Tonight, we're talking true crime

1170
01:02:54,840 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 5: all the time. Welcome back to True cran Tonight on

1171
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:11,560
Speaker 5: iHeart Radio, where we talk true crime all the time.

1172
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 3: I'm Courtney Armstrong.

1173
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,040
Speaker 5: I am so happy that as our guest we have

1174
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:21,560
Speaker 5: Joseph Scott Morgan, our forensics experts.

1175
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 3: Hey, yay, don't forget if.

1176
01:03:24,080 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 6: You miss any here.

1177
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, it just doesn't it doesn't. It make the Sunday

1178
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 5: so much better.

1179
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:32,160
Speaker 4: Body, listen, if I have to work on Sundays, which

1180
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 4: I don't appreciate, by the way, but if I have

1181
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 4: to work on Sundays, I get to do it with

1182
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:37,160
Speaker 4: Joseph and I'm.

1183
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:37,520
Speaker 3: Okay with that.

1184
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 11: Hey, you know what I mean. I'll send you that

1185
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 11: sowbuck pretty soon.

1186
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:44,200
Speaker 3: Okay, you got, you got, you got my venmo. You're

1187
01:03:44,200 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 3: good to go. That's perfect and listening. Don't forget if

1188
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:49,800
Speaker 3: you are.

1189
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:51,920
Speaker 5: If you've missed any part of the show, you can

1190
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 5: always catch us on the podcast and we always want

1191
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:56,280
Speaker 5: to hear from you. So you can call us eight

1192
01:03:56,320 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 5: at eight three on Crime or get with us on

1193
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,520
Speaker 5: socials at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and Instagram,

1194
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 5: and True Crime Tonight on Facebook.

1195
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 3: Okay, so we're.

1196
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:12,160
Speaker 5: Diving back into the case, the au Pair case, which

1197
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:18,440
Speaker 5: basically Brendan Banfield is his murder child is in motion.

1198
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 5: Brendan Banfield was having an affair with the Pair and

1199
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 5: those two plotted to kill Banfield's wife as well as

1200
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:32,440
Speaker 5: a stranger who they brought in through very complicated actions.

1201
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:35,760
Speaker 5: That's what we're talking about. But we had been talking

1202
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 5: a little bit about planning and how much time you know,

1203
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:45,000
Speaker 5: body you mentioned it was simply diabolical. I never thought

1204
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 5: I would say these words, but the testimony from the

1205
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 5: windows salesman was fascinating.

1206
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:55,440
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, so a window salesman right, so.

1207
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:01,160
Speaker 5: Confirmed that there was installation of third eight thousand dollars

1208
01:05:01,160 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 5: triple pain windows. Okay, on its face, I'm thinking, well

1209
01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 5: that's expensive. But okay, however, you add that to corroborating

1210
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 5: testimony from the All pair Juliana Maga Hollis, And what

1211
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 5: she said was that the defendant, Brendan Banfield, replaced the

1212
01:05:21,880 --> 01:05:25,880
Speaker 5: homes windows with these triple Paine glass in order to

1213
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:30,680
Speaker 5: prevent neighbors from hearing screams. And they went so far

1214
01:05:30,920 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 5: as to test the soundproofing where the all pair screamed

1215
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 5: inside while Brent the defendant, Brenda Banfield, was outside.

1216
01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:41,440
Speaker 3: Can you imagine?

1217
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,720
Speaker 4: Oh god, So she pled guilty in this right, she

1218
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:48,919
Speaker 4: pled guilty. She's testifying against him for some kind of deal, right,

1219
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 4: that's why, that's why she's on the stand testifying, so

1220
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 4: so everybody knows she has pled guilty. She was arrested

1221
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:58,360
Speaker 4: like a year before him, so she's working with the

1222
01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 4: with the prosecutors.

1223
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 5: Yes, you're exactly right. And she was pled down to

1224
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 5: a manslaughter charge. What in all of this, which I.

1225
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:15,640
Speaker 4: Mean manslaughter, they must have truly needed her testimony. I

1226
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:18,960
Speaker 4: mean they must, Joseph, does that tell you anything? Do

1227
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,800
Speaker 4: you think that they're forensically they needed her testimony?

1228
01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 11: Yeah? Yeah, I think that it does. And again that

1229
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 11: goes back to the complexity of this. And listen, you know,

1230
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:31,560
Speaker 11: at the end of the day, whatever their motivations, these

1231
01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:35,920
Speaker 11: two wanted to be absent of this poor woman, this

1232
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 11: pediatric ICU nurse. Oh my god, you know.

1233
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:43,400
Speaker 3: And he's an IRS agent, Lord.

1234
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:46,440
Speaker 11: Have mercy and and you know their end game is

1235
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 11: to try to be together. Now this is you know,

1236
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:54,280
Speaker 11: I don't know, it seems like divorce courts a lot simpler. However,

1237
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 11: you know, you begin to think about this, and I

1238
01:06:59,120 --> 01:07:02,240
Speaker 11: got to tell you something. Figure this whole idea about

1239
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,920
Speaker 11: these triple pain windows. Did you know? Did you know

1240
01:07:06,280 --> 01:07:10,880
Speaker 11: that some of the most valuable testimony that investigators have

1241
01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 11: out there is like direct direct witness. Is people always

1242
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,920
Speaker 11: think of eyewitness, don't they, Right, there are so many

1243
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 11: cases that have turned over the years on ear witness testimony. Okay,

1244
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 11: and because you can. And the thing about it is

1245
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:33,840
Speaker 11: is that when you hear something It really resonates, doesn't it,

1246
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:38,840
Speaker 11: And no pun intended? Okay, really it really it really

1247
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 11: because I mean, how many times have you guys, over

1248
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 11: the course of your lives, all of us, you know,

1249
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 11: you've heard a sound, you know, and even in literature

1250
01:07:47,520 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 11: you'll hear what's the old the old old term they

1251
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 11: use in mystery, a blood curdling scream, right, So that's

1252
01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 11: immediately going to draw your attention. Now, if you live

1253
01:07:57,920 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 11: in a place where you've got people that might have

1254
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 11: domestic beasts and they're screaming at one another. But when

1255
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 11: you pull out a sharp instrument, Okay, there's another gear

1256
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 11: that you go into at that point when you when

1257
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 11: you have an individual that is faced with the possibility

1258
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,360
Speaker 11: of having this blade driven into them, you're going to

1259
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:22,840
Speaker 11: hear sounds that you can't even begin to fathom in

1260
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 11: your worst nightmares. So I think that this is a

1261
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 11: big piece to this and the fact that they would

1262
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 11: test this out. Here's the question. What if it hadn't worked.

1263
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:36,719
Speaker 11: What if he had dropped thirty k on this thing

1264
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:40,599
Speaker 11: and it didn't work, what was the next step? Now, Okay,

1265
01:08:40,960 --> 01:08:43,280
Speaker 11: what if they're testing didn't didn't pan out?

1266
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 3: Well, I don't even know why they did it.

1267
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 4: Because they're doing this to make it look like a

1268
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:50,759
Speaker 4: home invasion, you would think that they would want neighbors

1269
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 4: to hear a scream, right, Like the neighbor could be

1270
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 4: like and I heard the wife screaming.

1271
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 11: But you can you can still control the narrative though,

1272
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:01,760
Speaker 11: if you can sound I.

1273
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:03,840
Speaker 3: Don't know, Okay, that makes sense, That makes sense.

1274
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,960
Speaker 5: I I thought about that as well.

1275
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 7: And even in this case, didn't we say that the

1276
01:09:11,200 --> 01:09:14,560
Speaker 7: victim didn't die immediately? So you know, if well, the

1277
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:19,160
Speaker 7: die didn't die, right, So that's an example of like

1278
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,599
Speaker 7: why you wouldn't that true? Means like, you know, he's

1279
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:24,559
Speaker 7: still screaming for help before the situation is set up

1280
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 7: in the way they want it to be.

1281
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 6: But just a random.

1282
01:09:27,040 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 11: Thought with it.

1283
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 3: No, that's a good point.

1284
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 11: Wow, you know this sounds like a classic Hollywood kind

1285
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:38,280
Speaker 11: of set up. Somebody stabbs somebody, somebody pulls out a gun,

1286
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:42,320
Speaker 11: the other person returns fire, shoots somebody, and you know,

1287
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:47,679
Speaker 11: I don't know, it does happen obviously, but uh, it's

1288
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:50,599
Speaker 11: so it's it's really and I think going back to

1289
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:54,479
Speaker 11: the earlier question about did the cops buy it, it

1290
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:58,840
Speaker 11: just seems this is not something that that they would

1291
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:04,679
Speaker 11: commonly see in a double homicide. It's just not It's

1292
01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:07,920
Speaker 11: not something that you traditionally see. So talk about smelling

1293
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:13,360
Speaker 11: a rat again. Combine that with any kind of forensic evidence,

1294
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 11: particularly blood evidence that you haven't seen, and you begin

1295
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 11: to think about the interpretation of blood evids. And I

1296
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 11: want all of our friends to remember that, you know,

1297
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 11: when you're looking at blood that is generated as a

1298
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:30,559
Speaker 11: result of a stab or sharp force injury, completely different

1299
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 11: than what you're going to see with a high velocity

1300
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:36,800
Speaker 11: gun show. I want it so you know, now you've

1301
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,960
Speaker 11: got two dynamics. This thing is like forty chess almost. Okay,

1302
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,760
Speaker 11: That's why it's so fascinating, because you could unpack the

1303
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,120
Speaker 11: forensics on this thing. Actually, this is probably a pretty

1304
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,840
Speaker 11: good case for me to teach at university. It's so

1305
01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 11: multi layered. You know, you begin to think about this,

1306
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 11: and you know, we generate this kind of stuff at

1307
01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 11: jack Statan, our primcing house, And this kind of case

1308
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 11: is prom because if you can handle a case like

1309
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:08,120
Speaker 11: this as an investigator, other cases seemed not to intellectually

1310
01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 11: strenuous After something like this, right.

1311
01:11:12,400 --> 01:11:14,920
Speaker 3: I had two other specific forensics.

1312
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:18,120
Speaker 5: Now now that we have you made a hostage here, okay,

1313
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 5: and it has to do with a blood splatter in

1314
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 5: this case, and without getting into too much gruesome detail,

1315
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,479
Speaker 5: one of the photos that were shown were of the victim,

1316
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 5: Christine's eyeglasses, and you can see blood spatter on them

1317
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 5: as well as the sneakers. So this goes back to

1318
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:46,040
Speaker 5: hold on, I have lost my place. They were a

1319
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:48,720
Speaker 5: pair of sneakers, Okay, I took some notes. Yeah, they

1320
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 5: were the nanny sneakers and they were investigated by taking.

1321
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,479
Speaker 3: Apart the shoes.

1322
01:11:55,520 --> 01:11:58,760
Speaker 5: There was no blood found on the inside, but there

1323
01:11:58,920 --> 01:12:02,479
Speaker 5: was blood found on the bottom edges of the off

1324
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:06,240
Speaker 5: airs sneakers, souls and toe area of the socks.

1325
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:10,000
Speaker 4: So she wasn't wearing them or she was wearing them.

1326
01:12:10,040 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 4: That's why there's nothing on the inside. I'm guessing Joseph, right, Yes,

1327
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:19,120
Speaker 4: she walked through the blood at some point.

1328
01:12:19,479 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 11: Right, she would have walked through the blood. And here's

1329
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,320
Speaker 11: here's one more thing, particularly for those out there and

1330
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:31,360
Speaker 11: that are not used to being around bloody scenes, there's

1331
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:35,720
Speaker 11: a plus. You're working at this level intellectually, that is

1332
01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,479
Speaker 11: high pressure. You're not thinking about and this is where

1333
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 11: criminals commonly screw up. They don't think about the little

1334
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 11: details like that that will come back to burn you

1335
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 11: in the end. She may not have had an un

1336
01:12:48,120 --> 01:12:52,479
Speaker 11: awareness at that particular time that she was tracing through blood. Okay,

1337
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,720
Speaker 11: now we count on things like that as investigators. See.

1338
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:59,080
Speaker 11: The big difference between her and the investigators that show

1339
01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:02,559
Speaker 11: up is they've only got a few seconds or maybe

1340
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,200
Speaker 11: minutes to stage this thing, to get it all right.

1341
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:09,400
Speaker 11: Guess what we've got. We've got hour upon our upon

1342
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 11: hour to work this scene, and we can be as

1343
01:13:12,439 --> 01:13:15,280
Speaker 11: careful as we want to. We're not on the clock.

1344
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 11: Trust me, I never got paid a lot given an

1345
01:13:19,600 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 11: amount of time that I would spend on crom scenes.

1346
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,240
Speaker 11: You know, you could take a couple of days out

1347
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 11: there and all you got to say is, I'm working

1348
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 11: the crom scene because in reality are and this is

1349
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,360
Speaker 11: very very detailed stuff it is.

1350
01:13:32,600 --> 01:13:35,320
Speaker 4: I mean, this case is really complicated. There's a lot

1351
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:38,639
Speaker 4: of forensic evidence, but they still needed the up here.

1352
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:41,400
Speaker 4: I'm so interested in this case, Courtney, I'm so glad

1353
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,320
Speaker 4: that you brought it to our attention, and we're going

1354
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 4: to continue to talk about it. But we have to

1355
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 4: move on to the Shark Tank case. Thanks court Okay, Now, seriously, Courtney,

1356
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:54,599
Speaker 4: I even posted about this case. I'm on my socials

1357
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 4: because I was like, bro, this case is insane.

1358
01:13:57,880 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 3: But the Shark Tank case. This is your crime tonight.

1359
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:01,800
Speaker 4: By the way, on iHeartRadio, if you want to join

1360
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,240
Speaker 4: the conversation, give us a call eighty eight thirty one Crime,

1361
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:06,880
Speaker 4: or leave us a little talk back on the iHeartRadio

1362
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,200
Speaker 4: app and we'll get the little talkie talkie and you'll

1363
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 4: be on the show.

1364
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:12,519
Speaker 3: A Shark Tank case. All right.

1365
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:18,520
Speaker 4: So this case a former Shark Tank contestant and Colombian businesswoman,

1366
01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 4: Zuma Guzman Castro. She was fifty four years old. She

1367
01:14:22,920 --> 01:14:25,639
Speaker 4: was arrested in London this week after being rescued from

1368
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 4: the River Thames. Like she was in the river, okay,

1369
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 4: nearly nine months after allegedly poisoning two preteen girls in Bogata, Columbia.

1370
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:40,120
Speaker 4: She is accused of killing fourteen year old Aez de

1371
01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 4: Bedo and thirteen year old Amelia Ferrero in April of

1372
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 4: twenty twenty five by lacing chocolate covered raspberries with thallium.

1373
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 4: That is a really dangerous and deadly odorless medal. The

1374
01:14:56,200 --> 01:15:00,439
Speaker 4: alleged murders were reportedly in act of vengeance after she

1375
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 4: had the secret affair with one of the fourteen year

1376
01:15:03,840 --> 01:15:07,760
Speaker 4: old girls the victim's father it was Inez's father. After

1377
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:11,599
Speaker 4: fleeing Columbia in April of twenty twenty five, she traveled

1378
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:18,040
Speaker 4: through Argentina, Brazil, Spain, and the UK, prompting this international

1379
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:22,799
Speaker 4: manhunt that culminated in her very recent event or arrest.

1380
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 4: I'm sorry event arrest. So what's helium and what does it.

1381
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:29,920
Speaker 3: Do to you?

1382
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 11: Well? Throw out something very interesting to you guys about thallium.

1383
01:15:36,280 --> 01:15:39,760
Speaker 3: Please, yes, do you.

1384
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 11: Know that thallium, as far as a poisoning agent, is recognized,

1385
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 11: and there's a term they apply to the specific agent.

1386
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 11: Thallium is known as the poisoner's poison. And the reason

1387
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:58,919
Speaker 11: it is is because it's so very difficult to detect.

1388
01:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,040
Speaker 11: There have been volumes written about this agent and it's

1389
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:07,720
Speaker 11: so highly lethal. Now it can be dosed, it can

1390
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 11: be dosed in. It it's not it's not like, okay,

1391
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 11: let me see, let me break this down. I'm not

1392
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 11: going to pull forth and give everybody a chemistry lesson here,

1393
01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:21,240
Speaker 11: But thallium itself appears on the periodic table. Remember periodic charts.

1394
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:24,000
Speaker 11: You know, you have to when you were first taking chemistry,

1395
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:33,559
Speaker 11: so lead I always remember. So thallium, uh, Thallium is

1396
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:38,600
Speaker 11: something that is literally in I think it's it's a

1397
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,479
Speaker 11: box site. I think I think it's one of it's

1398
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:45,080
Speaker 11: found in an in another compound and you have to

1399
01:16:45,120 --> 01:16:48,920
Speaker 11: reduce it down to thallium. It is on the elemental chart,

1400
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 11: and it's highly toxic. It's usually used for industrial purposes. Electronics, yeah, electronics.

1401
01:16:57,120 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 11: It's also I think it's got some agra uses as well.

1402
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 11: It's multivariate. And here's the thing about it is it's

1403
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 11: also been used as former rat poisoning for years going back.

1404
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:12,479
Speaker 11: I mean, it's right up there with arsnake, okay, and

1405
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 11: so it is highly lethal. I am. I think the

1406
01:17:16,040 --> 01:17:18,599
Speaker 11: biggest thing for me is how did this person get

1407
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:21,200
Speaker 11: their hands on it? How did they know how to

1408
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:25,320
Speaker 11: handle it? Because just being in contact with the stuff,

1409
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,880
Speaker 11: just being in contact with it, and it has a

1410
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 11: transdermal effect too. It can burn you if you hold

1411
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:37,840
Speaker 11: it too long. It yeah, you can, and workers that

1412
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:41,840
Speaker 11: are around it, you'll there are numbers of cases where

1413
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:47,320
Speaker 11: people have actually died as a result of just working

1414
01:17:47,479 --> 01:17:50,200
Speaker 11: environments where they take this stuff in either in a

1415
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 11: histamin form they absorb it or in some kind of

1416
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,320
Speaker 11: food stuff, or they come in contact with it. Highly

1417
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:59,719
Speaker 11: lethal and the desk that these girls would have experienced,

1418
01:17:59,760 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 11: I'll go ahead and tell you this way, it is

1419
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:04,720
Speaker 11: one of the most excruciating things that they could have

1420
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 11: gone through. And here's the rub. The doctors would not

1421
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 11: have known how to treat it, because this is not

1422
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 11: something that comes across the table. And maybe it starts initially.

1423
01:18:14,080 --> 01:18:17,480
Speaker 11: You're going to see like horrible guests thrown testinal responses

1424
01:18:17,520 --> 01:18:20,560
Speaker 11: to this. Okay, I'm jesi, can it?

1425
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to stay just a few minutes longer.

1426
01:18:24,120 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 4: I need to hear more from you about this, so

1427
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:26,960
Speaker 4: please stay with us.

1428
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 3: Yes, sure, so stick around.

1429
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:30,800
Speaker 4: The talkbacks are pouring in and I can't wait to

1430
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 4: hear them, and we're going to continue talking about this

1431
01:18:33,200 --> 01:18:37,280
Speaker 4: crazy chocolate raspberry poisoning case out of Brazil.

1432
01:18:37,439 --> 01:18:39,720
Speaker 3: Keep it right here. True Crime Tonight, Columbia.

1433
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 5: Sorry, Columbia, Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio,

1434
01:18:53,320 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 5: where we talk true crime all the time.

1435
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:57,479
Speaker 3: I'm Courtney Armstrong.

1436
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:01,760
Speaker 5: Here is always with Steffanie Leidecker Body and tonight we

1437
01:19:02,120 --> 01:19:07,120
Speaker 5: have Joseph Scott Morgan, our forensics expert and very very

1438
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:12,760
Speaker 5: dear friend. So Dotty, bring us right back into the

1439
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:14,800
Speaker 5: story that we Cliff hung off of.

1440
01:19:15,200 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, summarize it real quick.

1441
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:20,240
Speaker 4: This lady she was having an affair and she ended

1442
01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:22,880
Speaker 4: up killing the daughter she was The daughter was only

1443
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:25,600
Speaker 4: fourteen years old and her friend and this lady's like

1444
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:28,639
Speaker 4: fifty six years old. Then she gets on a plane

1445
01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 4: and she starts going through from she lives in Columbia.

1446
01:19:31,439 --> 01:19:33,720
Speaker 4: She goes to Brazil, she goes to Argentina, she she

1447
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:35,640
Speaker 4: goes to the she goes to Spain, and then she

1448
01:19:35,720 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 4: goes to the UK. Somehow she ends up in the

1449
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 4: River Thames. They're looking for her this whole time. By

1450
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 4: the way, she ends up in the river. They rescue

1451
01:19:43,240 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 4: her and they're like, oh, this is the girl we're

1452
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 4: looking for all right now. They killed She killed these

1453
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 4: little girls, by the way, they're fourteen years old with

1454
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:57,479
Speaker 4: injected She injected thallium with a syringe into chocolate covered

1455
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 4: raspberries and then sent those raspberries to the home when

1456
01:20:02,240 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 4: this girl lived. And the girls were like, oh, look

1457
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:06,920
Speaker 4: at this treat, okay, and aid them and they ended

1458
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 4: up in the hospital. Now, right before the break, I

1459
01:20:09,320 --> 01:20:12,640
Speaker 4: was asking Joseph like, what is what is dallium? And

1460
01:20:12,760 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 4: dallium is like a compound that's used in electronics, but

1461
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 4: it's also what Joseph described as the poisoner's poison. And

1462
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:23,719
Speaker 4: it's because it's really undetectable, it's really hard to find.

1463
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:26,320
Speaker 4: It really does a number on the body, and doctors

1464
01:20:26,320 --> 01:20:27,760
Speaker 4: don't know how to treat it. Is that Did I

1465
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:28,559
Speaker 4: sum that upright?

1466
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:29,120
Speaker 3: Joseph?

1467
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:34,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, it is. And the problem is, uh, you know,

1468
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 11: anytime any of us go to the doctor, right, one

1469
01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:41,320
Speaker 11: of the first questions duc's going to ask, if you're verbal,

1470
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:44,040
Speaker 11: is what are your symptoms? You know, what are you feeling?

1471
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,800
Speaker 11: And so when let's just say these girls could have

1472
01:20:47,880 --> 01:20:52,559
Speaker 11: bet or anybody that's that's had vallium exposure, they're going

1473
01:20:52,600 --> 01:20:57,439
Speaker 11: to present with gastro intestinal symptomology. Well what's the first thing?

1474
01:20:58,439 --> 01:21:01,519
Speaker 11: You know, when when a doctor here, hoof beats, he

1475
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:04,960
Speaker 11: doesn't think camel. Okay, So they're going to treat you

1476
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 11: for the standard things all the while, here's the thing.

1477
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 11: You've got this time bomb, this ticking time bomb in

1478
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:15,000
Speaker 11: your system, because once it upticks in there you've got

1479
01:21:15,080 --> 01:21:18,479
Speaker 11: a very limited window that you can actually treat it.

1480
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:22,040
Speaker 11: So there's a substance called Prussian blue where they can

1481
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 11: treat you with the stuff. And if they get you

1482
01:21:25,040 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 11: past that first stage, then you have to go through.

1483
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,519
Speaker 11: Now listen to this. You have to put them on

1484
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:36,599
Speaker 11: hemo dialysis to get this stuff flushed out of your system. Yeah,

1485
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,520
Speaker 11: it's a lengthy and if you get it in acute

1486
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 11: and acute status like they were exposed at thallium, you

1487
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 11: can hit them with charcoal, you know, try to neutralize that.

1488
01:21:47,479 --> 01:21:50,360
Speaker 11: That is, if it's ingested, you know, think but you know,

1489
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 11: most docs, I'm not accusing doctors. I mean, no one

1490
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:55,800
Speaker 11: is going to think thallium, you know when you walk

1491
01:21:55,920 --> 01:22:00,759
Speaker 11: in that's why poison. Yeah, I know, and many people

1492
01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:06,200
Speaker 11: haven't except weirdos like me. You know, well I'm not

1493
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:12,640
Speaker 11: really into it. But yeah, so it's it would be

1494
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:17,080
Speaker 11: considered as far as I'm concerned, and exotic because it's

1495
01:22:17,280 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 11: not on too many people's radar. But you know, even

1496
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:24,720
Speaker 11: even when you think about uh, for instance, even if

1497
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:28,439
Speaker 11: you think about arsenic, arsenic is not on the radar

1498
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 11: strip mind is not on the radar most of the time.

1499
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:35,640
Speaker 11: And so you think about those those particular agents, and

1500
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 11: so they really have to be on their p's and q's.

1501
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,320
Speaker 11: That's why you know many times in emergency rooms they're

1502
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:46,599
Speaker 11: connected to the poison hotline and these people there can

1503
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 11: like read this off. What's the symptomology that you're seeing?

1504
01:22:49,360 --> 01:22:52,880
Speaker 11: Because nothing you're, nothing you're doing is working. What else

1505
01:22:52,920 --> 01:22:55,360
Speaker 11: can we look at? It's just the problem is is

1506
01:22:55,400 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 11: that you're on the clock. It's like a ballgame, you troubleshoot, right, yeah, yeah,

1507
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:06,840
Speaker 11: And that's that's what's so utterly that's terrifying about this.

1508
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:10,240
Speaker 11: And I want to know where she would have sourced

1509
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:12,640
Speaker 11: this from. Who else has men exposed to it? And

1510
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 11: also how does she gain the knowledge of this? Are

1511
01:23:16,400 --> 01:23:19,360
Speaker 11: there other people that she's aware of that have utilizes

1512
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 11: before or did she go somewhere and watch a video

1513
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 11: about it? You know?

1514
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:28,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, So the guy she was having an affair with,

1515
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:32,320
Speaker 4: the victim's mom or the victim's husband, he was married

1516
01:23:32,360 --> 01:23:34,439
Speaker 4: to her, the one of the victims moms and she

1517
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:38,639
Speaker 4: died and now they're kind of looking at her as

1518
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:42,120
Speaker 4: maybe being the reason. So she might have tried it

1519
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:44,519
Speaker 4: first on the mom or the wife of the guys

1520
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 4: she's having in thro with Yeah, oh well.

1521
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:48,559
Speaker 3: So they might.

1522
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,280
Speaker 11: I mean that's what going back to the case in

1523
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:55,080
Speaker 11: Australia with the mushrooms, she did that, she tested it.

1524
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:00,400
Speaker 11: If you remember that case, he didn't eat that night.

1525
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:02,720
Speaker 11: He was not there for that. Remember he had done

1526
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,280
Speaker 11: he had spent extensive he had to have a bowel

1527
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 11: reception done in that case down in Australia. She had

1528
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 11: tested the stuff on him before and secondary targets where

1529
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 11: they extended family members and of course the children in

1530
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:18,479
Speaker 11: that case will serve something different at a dinner that night.

1531
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 4: Well, so just to sum it up really quick for

1532
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:26,280
Speaker 4: that mom. She died in August of twenty twenty one

1533
01:24:26,640 --> 01:24:31,799
Speaker 4: of cancer, but doctors believe she was poisoned and poisoned

1534
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:38,160
Speaker 4: with thallium twice. What yeah, yeah, so yeah, I think

1535
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:41,760
Speaker 4: she was experimenting. Maybe maybe she gave her too much

1536
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:43,559
Speaker 4: and the doctors were like, oh, this is allium. Maybe

1537
01:24:43,560 --> 01:24:45,640
Speaker 4: they knew somehow and we're able to treat her. But

1538
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 4: they say she was poisoned twice with thallium before she

1539
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:49,479
Speaker 4: died of cancer.

1540
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:54,080
Speaker 11: There's twenty one. There's another symptomology that comes about with

1541
01:24:54,240 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 11: low dosing on thallium and you will have you will

1542
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:01,960
Speaker 11: have a dermatological response as well. Well, you'll break out

1543
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:04,280
Speaker 11: with sores on your skin, this sort of thing if

1544
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:08,080
Speaker 11: you're getting low dosed over period of time. So that's

1545
01:25:08,120 --> 01:25:11,040
Speaker 11: another thing that she had to look for diagnostically. If

1546
01:25:11,080 --> 01:25:14,000
Speaker 11: you're suspecting this, do they have lesions on their skin

1547
01:25:14,120 --> 01:25:15,120
Speaker 11: their face? That's her.

1548
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:17,439
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness.

1549
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:18,200
Speaker 11: Wow.

1550
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:20,920
Speaker 4: So there's another interesting thing is how she got caught.

1551
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:25,640
Speaker 4: So they they caught her and realized that she was

1552
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 4: actually in the UK because she was seen on a

1553
01:25:31,600 --> 01:25:37,639
Speaker 4: Colombian TV interview drinking a bottle of Buxton water. Okay,

1554
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 4: so she's doing an interview, she's drinking a bottle of water,

1555
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,400
Speaker 4: and the authorities are, of course, you know, inner pools

1556
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:46,559
Speaker 4: looking for her. Okay, she's a wanted fugitive. Nobody knows

1557
01:25:46,560 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 4: where she's at though. Okay, she's drinking this bottle of water. Well,

1558
01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,519
Speaker 4: Buxton is only sold in the UK. And by the way,

1559
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:57,400
Speaker 4: they knew that it was not She didn't live in

1560
01:25:57,439 --> 01:26:00,760
Speaker 4: an apartment in an hotel. She was actually living there

1561
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:03,320
Speaker 4: in an apartment. And the reason they knew that is

1562
01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:07,240
Speaker 4: because the bottle size. The bottle size is only sold

1563
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:11,240
Speaker 4: at like drug stores, okay, not in hotel gift shops,

1564
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:15,800
Speaker 4: so they knew they would find her in the UK.

1565
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 4: It's only that she fell on the river at some

1566
01:26:18,560 --> 01:26:20,599
Speaker 4: point for some reason. I don't know the backstory behind

1567
01:26:20,640 --> 01:26:24,640
Speaker 4: that just yet. But yeah, they had a snaker out of.

1568
01:26:24,680 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 3: The of the water.

1569
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 7: They look at those and that's what I love.

1570
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:32,000
Speaker 3: That's those little details.

1571
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:34,160
Speaker 4: When we were looking for Luca, that's what we were

1572
01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 4: looking for, those little details that are so important. And

1573
01:26:38,000 --> 01:26:40,599
Speaker 4: bus cases open wide open every day.

1574
01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:45,000
Speaker 11: Yeah, so they tell you. I love walking along the Thames.

1575
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:47,200
Speaker 11: I would never want to swim at it. This is.

1576
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:49,320
Speaker 1: Right.

1577
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 5: No, well, as always, Joseph, we need to thank you

1578
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:57,439
Speaker 5: from the bottom of our hearts for joining us.

1579
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:04,040
Speaker 11: I love you guys, with you guys best so beautiful

1580
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,679
Speaker 11: shameless plug real quick, I'd like for everybody if you haven't,

1581
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:11,240
Speaker 11: please go check out the new body bags with Joseph

1582
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 11: Scott Morgan's Facebook page that we just It shows all

1583
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:17,519
Speaker 11: of my appearances. I load up all of all of

1584
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:21,759
Speaker 11: my immediately. Please go check it out. My gorgeous wife

1585
01:27:21,960 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 11: is managing that for me because I'm no good really,

1586
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:25,280
Speaker 11: it's social media.

1587
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:27,439
Speaker 3: Thank God for her.

1588
01:27:28,400 --> 01:27:31,280
Speaker 11: Kim yeah, no, kidd, absolutely can do without her.

1589
01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:33,519
Speaker 3: So I'll join it right now. I'll join it right now.

1590
01:27:33,880 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 3: Did you share it on your page?

1591
01:27:36,320 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 11: I think it is on my page. It's on personal page.

1592
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:42,040
Speaker 11: And yeah, it's just their body bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.

1593
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:46,920
Speaker 3: Perfect, Love you, thank you, thank you. Till next time.

1594
01:27:47,439 --> 01:27:49,080
Speaker 11: Y'all have a great week.

1595
01:27:49,120 --> 01:27:52,479
Speaker 3: Okay, you too, You're very busy.

1596
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:56,120
Speaker 5: Everyone needs little Joseph Scott Morgan there everywhere.

1597
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:57,519
Speaker 11: Love him.

1598
01:27:58,040 --> 01:27:59,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, and listen if any.

1599
01:27:59,320 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 5: Of you out there, Uh, I want to hear a

1600
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:05,040
Speaker 5: little bit more after you go and join his Facebook group.

1601
01:28:06,479 --> 01:28:09,839
Speaker 5: More forensic deep dives are always found on Joseph's amazing

1602
01:28:10,200 --> 01:28:16,200
Speaker 5: hit podcast, Buddy Bags. So it's a great listen. And yeah,

1603
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:19,640
Speaker 5: there we are, And what do you think should we

1604
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:20,919
Speaker 5: go and grab.

1605
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:21,360
Speaker 3: A talk back?

1606
01:28:21,520 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 7: I was about to say, let's do some talkbacks because

1607
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:25,599
Speaker 7: we've got some lined up we haven't gotten to yet.

1608
01:28:25,960 --> 01:28:28,920
Speaker 12: Okay, hey ladies, it's Brittany from Montreal. I was just

1609
01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 12: listening to the episode where you refer to the AI

1610
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:34,480
Speaker 12: video circulating online and how hard it is to differentiate

1611
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 12: them from like a real video, and then you had

1612
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:38,719
Speaker 12: to bring up the dogs.

1613
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:42,040
Speaker 3: I heard you talk about it, and I was like, no,

1614
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:43,200
Speaker 3: say it ain't.

1615
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:46,920
Speaker 12: So I watched those videos of the dogs choosing their owners,

1616
01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,040
Speaker 12: and I cried because one of them was an old man,

1617
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,360
Speaker 12: and then he cried and the dog chose us.

1618
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:54,040
Speaker 3: I can't believe it's not real, but it makes sense.

1619
01:28:54,160 --> 01:28:54,840
Speaker 5: Body was right.

1620
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 3: Just because it's not real doesn't mean it's not sweet.

1621
01:28:58,920 --> 01:29:03,280
Speaker 4: Okay, maybe maybe you will give somebody an idea, right, Like,

1622
01:29:03,680 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 4: because I watched them, I knew they were fake, but

1623
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:09,200
Speaker 4: I still watched them. But maybe somebody out there will

1624
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:12,040
Speaker 4: make a program for your dogs to pick you and like,

1625
01:29:12,160 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 4: maybe it will spark, you know, a new idea, a

1626
01:29:14,840 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 4: new idea. Try to look at this, try to look

1627
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:19,920
Speaker 4: at it that way. But it's a good perspective because

1628
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 4: I was so sad. Thank you so much for thank

1629
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:23,360
Speaker 4: you the talk back.

1630
01:29:23,520 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 5: I was like broken hearted when you when you said

1631
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 5: that's not for Stephanie, I'm.

1632
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:30,599
Speaker 3: Like, what do you mean.

1633
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:34,639
Speaker 4: I literally saw your face like sink in on itself,

1634
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,719
Speaker 4: and my heart. I was like, I'm destroying this woman

1635
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:38,040
Speaker 4: right now.

1636
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:39,080
Speaker 3: I feel so bad.

1637
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:41,880
Speaker 11: Oh no, I feel you know what.

1638
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 7: I'm embarrassed to say. I have yet to see these videos,

1639
01:29:44,520 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 7: so tonight, my little project is to deep dive into them.

1640
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:49,760
Speaker 3: Oh Tom, they're really cute.

1641
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,280
Speaker 4: It's kind of like all these people sitting in chairs

1642
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:54,600
Speaker 4: and they're at like some kind of community center and

1643
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:58,880
Speaker 4: there's these dogs and then basically the dog chooses their

1644
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:02,080
Speaker 4: owner and then the dog walks up to a person

1645
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:05,040
Speaker 4: and like puts their their head on the guy's shoulder and.

1646
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 3: The guy hugs them like, oh, you're my dog.

1647
01:30:07,080 --> 01:30:07,200
Speaker 10: Now.

1648
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 3: It's all and it's very sweet, and I mean it's

1649
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 3: very sweet, but it's not real.

1650
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:12,360
Speaker 6: Well.

1651
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,840
Speaker 7: The one plus is people are doing positive videos like that,

1652
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:18,439
Speaker 7: because like the other end of the spectrum could be

1653
01:30:18,520 --> 01:30:19,960
Speaker 7: creating good.

1654
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:23,679
Speaker 4: The ones that I'm getting right now are the people

1655
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:28,320
Speaker 4: they're making AI videos of like water slide accidents.

1656
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:31,320
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

1657
01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:36,840
Speaker 4: They they're okay, I'm terrified of heights, terrified, and they

1658
01:30:36,920 --> 01:30:40,120
Speaker 4: make these oh dude. And so they're making these AI

1659
01:30:40,240 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 4: videos where somebody is like going down like a really

1660
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:45,639
Speaker 4: high water slide, like one on top of a building

1661
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,200
Speaker 4: or something, and they take the corner too sharp and

1662
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 4: they end up flying off the water slide into like

1663
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:55,880
Speaker 4: Central Park down below. Oh my, every time I watch it,

1664
01:30:55,920 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 4: I'm like because my stomach literally goes up into my throat.

1665
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:01,360
Speaker 3: You know that feeling, that feeling I should get it.

1666
01:31:01,680 --> 01:31:04,120
Speaker 6: I have scenes that now you have an issue with

1667
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:06,639
Speaker 6: heights that thinking about these? Have you seen the videos?

1668
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:09,760
Speaker 7: These are real where these people sort of walk like

1669
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:12,880
Speaker 7: not a type rope, but they they walk along the edges.

1670
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:16,519
Speaker 6: Of really tall buildings or they do you know what.

1671
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 6: I don't know if you've seen those.

1672
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:21,800
Speaker 4: But I cannot watch the water slide one because I

1673
01:31:21,840 --> 01:31:23,560
Speaker 4: know they're not real, but those ones, I don't know.

1674
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 3: I don't know if the roll or not. Like people

1675
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:28,240
Speaker 3: do that, So I don't know, people do crazy things.

1676
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 5: I was really extraordinarily lucky enough to go to Costa

1677
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:35,680
Speaker 5: Rica a couple of years ago. My sister and my

1678
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 5: niece joined and it was awesome, but man, we were

1679
01:31:39,439 --> 01:31:42,360
Speaker 5: on My niece was like, we have to go. It

1680
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:46,840
Speaker 5: was like canopy height, so the really tall, tall, tall

1681
01:31:48,479 --> 01:31:53,360
Speaker 5: rainforest and we were on these you know, holding your

1682
01:31:53,479 --> 01:31:58,600
Speaker 5: breath bridges And when I say bridges, picturing like a

1683
01:31:58,640 --> 01:32:01,479
Speaker 5: big metal, strong structure that looked like something I made

1684
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:02,360
Speaker 5: with I.

1685
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:06,000
Speaker 7: Started a constrain. The zip lines, So did you see

1686
01:32:06,040 --> 01:32:08,400
Speaker 7: those in Costa Rica? Because I did do those with

1687
01:32:08,560 --> 01:32:11,439
Speaker 7: Stephanie believe in that we were working on. I think

1688
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 7: it was one of the reality It was probably probably

1689
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:18,760
Speaker 7: one of the Temptation Island, and my job was to

1690
01:32:19,160 --> 01:32:23,120
Speaker 7: film like people on the zip line. The footage was

1691
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:27,360
Speaker 7: useless because I was screaming like a band. Really, I

1692
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:29,759
Speaker 7: couldn't Oh, I was used. Yeah, I was so frightened,

1693
01:32:30,120 --> 01:32:32,439
Speaker 7: Like how did you expect me to I can't film people?

1694
01:32:32,600 --> 01:32:36,519
Speaker 7: Am you screaming like a twelve year old girl in

1695
01:32:36,600 --> 01:32:37,719
Speaker 7: a haunted house?

1696
01:32:37,800 --> 01:32:37,840
Speaker 5: Like?

1697
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:39,839
Speaker 6: It was really really bad. I was so frightened.

1698
01:32:40,160 --> 01:32:43,600
Speaker 7: But this is like, honestly, it was ridiculously high. I

1699
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:46,160
Speaker 7: felt like they didn't really check things the way we

1700
01:32:46,320 --> 01:32:47,719
Speaker 7: might earn in the US.

1701
01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 5: Like it.

1702
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:49,960
Speaker 6: I was like, this feels a little loose.

1703
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 3: It's a little I'm not sure.

1704
01:32:53,320 --> 01:32:55,240
Speaker 4: I did one of those in Malaysia, Like one of

1705
01:32:55,280 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 4: those bridges, did you bro They like put me through

1706
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:02,719
Speaker 4: it in Malaysia. Ate, They're like, okay, let's get everything.

1707
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:04,200
Speaker 4: That body is terrified.

1708
01:33:04,400 --> 01:33:05,360
Speaker 3: What are your biggest fears?

1709
01:33:05,439 --> 01:33:09,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, claustrophobia in the heights, right, like let's let's just

1710
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:13,519
Speaker 4: showcase all that, right, you know those glass bridges, those

1711
01:33:13,560 --> 01:33:19,160
Speaker 4: glass ones, yes, yes, yes, Oh they're so scary, and

1712
01:33:19,560 --> 01:33:21,640
Speaker 4: I can only walk on them if I'm on my

1713
01:33:21,720 --> 01:33:25,439
Speaker 4: hands and knees, right, and I'm wearing a dress, so

1714
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:26,559
Speaker 4: I can't get on my hands and knees.

1715
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:28,360
Speaker 3: Like, what am I gonna do? I got across it

1716
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:30,200
Speaker 3: on my feet. You're kidding me. I can't do that.

1717
01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:33,160
Speaker 3: It was terrifying, terrifying. Oh my yeah.

1718
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:37,920
Speaker 5: Anyway, that, by the way, freak me out. That image

1719
01:33:37,960 --> 01:33:41,840
Speaker 5: of Taha screaming and I was gonna stay with me

1720
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:43,880
Speaker 5: for a long time and I'm gonna have a lot

1721
01:33:43,960 --> 01:33:45,519
Speaker 5: of giggles and I really have.

1722
01:33:45,920 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 4: Is there any way we can get the footage of that,

1723
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:50,200
Speaker 4: like canary can FOI requests.

1724
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:54,120
Speaker 6: I'm afraid you'll probably did do something, but I did have.

1725
01:33:54,280 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 6: You know, what's good to know.

1726
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:57,360
Speaker 3: You know, it's good to know that Taha will go

1727
01:33:57,479 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 3: the extra mile for his job.

1728
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:02,479
Speaker 6: I did it? Are you going to do this? I

1729
01:34:02,560 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 6: guarantee I can make it happen. I know I could

1730
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:06,040
Speaker 6: do it, but I didn't.

1731
01:34:06,520 --> 01:34:06,680
Speaker 9: Right.

1732
01:34:08,320 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 6: What a night.

1733
01:34:10,120 --> 01:34:12,479
Speaker 2: Thank you everyone for listening and for the great night.

1734
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:15,719
Speaker 2: Remember Martin Luther King Day is tomorrow, so be sure

1735
01:34:15,880 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 2: to tune back in. We'll be covering when when protests

1736
01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:23,320
Speaker 2: actually became a crime. Plus also there's a new development

1737
01:34:23,439 --> 01:34:27,120
Speaker 2: in that TV news reporter who built her own mother allegedly.

1738
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:30,519
Speaker 3: All that and more, we'll see you tomorrow. Stay safe

1739
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:30,880
Speaker 3: out there.