Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2: Killer dad Chris Watts murders his pregnant wife Shenan and
Speaker 2: their unborn baby boy Nico, and both office little girls
Speaker 2: Bella and Celeste. Tonight, bombshell Chris Watts, secret prison bride
Speaker 2: who is marrying family annihilator Chris Watts, And to just
Speaker 2: top it off, steamy makeout sessions behind bars with witnesses.
Speaker 2: Ew Good Evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Speaker 2: I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to trust me that when I tell you that
Speaker 3: these two beautiful girls right here, I did nothing to them.
Speaker 4: And to my beautiful wife, I did nothing to her.
Speaker 4: I don't think anything.
Speaker 3: I could out him by the thing I'd ever knew it,
Speaker 3: but I did. I had put my hands around my
Speaker 3: wife's man. I looked at her and I.
Speaker 5: Just call top her.
Speaker 4: I didn't know she ly should.
Speaker 6: I didn't find out she was disappeared, like she had
Speaker 6: gone missing until like he was being investigated. I remember
Speaker 6: I was doing a haircut at the like when it
Speaker 6: came on the radio. We were with the radio. We
Speaker 6: were listening to you at work, and they had said
Speaker 6: something about like husband of you know she and they
Speaker 6: said Chris Watt, and I was like, that sounds so familiar,
Speaker 6: but I just I didn't think anything of it. And
Speaker 6: then I was going through on her Facebook and I
Speaker 6: saw like an article, you know, like I saw I
Speaker 6: recognize his his face. I can't put the tune together.
Speaker 6: And that's what I kind of, you know, that kind
Speaker 6: of kicked off from there. I felt horrible, horrible for
Speaker 6: for for her and those little girls. You know that
Speaker 6: that was initially, you know, just just devastate on us
Speaker 6: if he had the capacity to do that to his
Speaker 6: own family, Like, you know, like I'm just, you know,
Speaker 6: some some chick he was he messed with.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 6: I hate the things that I let him do to me.
Speaker 6: I hate the things that I put up with from him.
Speaker 6: I hate the things that you know, if if how
Speaker 6: if getting away with what he was doing to me
Speaker 6: gave him a little bit more confidence to you know,
Speaker 6: treat the next one worse.
Speaker 2: That is one of killer Dad, Chris wats many many mistresses.
Speaker 2: That was Amanda McMahon speaking to our friends at Daily Mail.
Speaker 2: Now whoa, whoa. Don't get confused, because that is not
Speaker 2: the prison bride joining us an All Star panel the
Speaker 2: phenomenon law of who would move their whole family across
Speaker 2: the country to be closer to a convicted killer, much
Speaker 2: less a convicted three time killer. Straight out to Ruth
Speaker 2: Bashinski joining US investigative crime reporter Daily Mail, who broke
Speaker 2: the story. Ruth, who is the mysterious Lizzie?
Speaker 8: She sure as mysterious Nancy.
Speaker 9: So her name is Lizzie Henderson, and what we know
Speaker 9: about her is actually a thirty ninety year old realtor.
Speaker 9: She was living in Cleveland, Ohio, just doing multiple jobs,
Speaker 9: and she basically was in a lot of you know,
Speaker 9: different relationships with it seemed like older men that nothing
Speaker 9: seemed to ever. You know, she never got married. She
Speaker 9: was pretty much living a single life. And she we
Speaker 9: don't really know how she met Chris, but they've been
Speaker 9: together for we could say since with certainties, since twenty
Speaker 9: twenty four. And she basically picked up and moved from Cleveland,
Speaker 9: Ohio to racing in Wisconsin to be closer to the
Speaker 9: present where he is going to be in for the
Speaker 9: rest of his life.
Speaker 2: I wonder how that works. Oh okay, I've got a
Speaker 2: question for the New York Control Room. Why is it
Speaker 2: every time we cover Chris Watts. You insist on showing
Speaker 2: him without a shirt? Nobody cares. Yes, that take it
Speaker 2: down now. I wait, let's just have a little refresher
Speaker 2: about who is Chris Watts who apparently is having steamy
Speaker 2: makeout sessions behind bars with his new prison bride who
Speaker 2: moved across the country to be with him. Dave Matt
Speaker 2: Crime Stories investigative reporter. What happened to Shenan, Nico, Bella
Speaker 2: and Celeste.
Speaker 10: Chris Watts strangled Shane Anne, who was pregnant with their
Speaker 10: son Nico. After strangling her, Chris Watts suffocated his little girls,
Speaker 10: Bella who was only four, and Ceci, who was three. Then,
Speaker 10: after suffocating these precious children, he shoved them through an
Speaker 10: eight inch hole into a crude oil container where he worked,
Speaker 10: leaving marks on their little heads from shoving them through
Speaker 10: the holes into those crude oil containers. And he buried
Speaker 10: Shane Anne in a shallow grave. That's what Chris Watts did.
Speaker 11: I like that?
Speaker 8: Sure, really, really, that's awesome.
Speaker 9: So pink means that's just the test.
Speaker 3: The pink is going to be girls.
Speaker 2: That's awesome, No idiot, When the line comes across the
Speaker 2: ept that means you're pregnant. The fact that the line
Speaker 2: is pink does not mean it's a girl. Out of
Speaker 2: all the women you cheated on Shannan with. And by
Speaker 2: the way, Dave mac, it's not Shane ann it's Sanan With.
Speaker 2: All the women you cheated on Shanan with, you should
Speaker 2: know about pregnancy tests. That's Shanane. She had on an oops,
Speaker 2: we did it again t shirt and he comes out
Speaker 2: and goes really while he went on to murder her
Speaker 2: their unborn son, Nico, and that will all his whole family,
Speaker 2: including the two little girls. And speaking of listen to Bella.
Speaker 12: My daddy is a hero.
Speaker 2: He helps me grow up sun He helped me.
Speaker 3: Oh s good too.
Speaker 8: He reads me books.
Speaker 2: He's calashes.
Speaker 7: A few.
Speaker 13: Food blue my daddy, Daddy, and love you.
Speaker 2: Bella and Celeste were horribly murdered and they were stuffed
Speaker 2: into cylindrical oil containers about that big, about eleven or
Speaker 2: twelve inches wide. To doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief
Speaker 2: Medical Examiner Terran County, Fort Worth, Star Off Mayhem and
Speaker 2: the Morgue. He is an esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
Speaker 2: School of Medicine at TCU and has performed literally thousands
Speaker 2: of medical autopsies. Doctor Kendall Crowns explain how the two
Speaker 2: little girls, Bella and Celesti we were just watching were
Speaker 2: d sleeved and what does that mean.
Speaker 14: So desleeved is basically when you begin to decompose, your
Speaker 14: skin surface begins to come off, the bonds between the
Speaker 14: epidermis and dermas start breaking down, and your outer skin
Speaker 14: surface comes off. Now, the older girl, I believe her
Speaker 14: name was Bella, she also had abrasions on her body
Speaker 14: from being shoved through the opening of the oil drum,
Speaker 14: causing abrasions on her chest and back and buttocks as well.
Speaker 14: And also if you look at her autopsy report, she
Speaker 14: may have she probably struggled because there's injuries to her frinula,
Speaker 14: her gum lawe from being smothered. And then she also
Speaker 14: has the oil in her stomach, so I think she
Speaker 14: was possibly alive and gulping in the oil after she
Speaker 14: was shoved into the oil drum.
Speaker 2: Put up, Doctor Crown's, please hold on, I'm processing what
Speaker 2: you just said because I've heard about the skin coming
Speaker 2: off the little girl's arms being desleeved that I'll just
Speaker 2: checked on my notes and that container was only about
Speaker 2: eight inches that he shoved their bodies into. But I
Speaker 2: had not heard that the girls had oil in their stomach.
Speaker 14: What so it's the older one, Bella has oil in
Speaker 14: her Let me see what the autopsy report exactly says.
Speaker 14: But she has oil in her stomach contents, and she
Speaker 14: also on her tuxqoloity showed hydrocarbons and oxygenated volatiles, which
Speaker 14: would be associated with the oil drum itself. So to me,
Speaker 14: it looks like she could have been alive, like he
Speaker 14: smothered her. There's bruising on the frinula and on the
Speaker 14: gum line, but she was passed out and then he
Speaker 14: shoves her through the oil drum, causing the abrasions on
Speaker 14: her body, and then she may have woken up once
Speaker 14: in the oil drum and then drowned. Essentially an oil
Speaker 14: because you shouldn't have a positive tuxicology result if you
Speaker 14: were dead, because it wouldn't be able to circulate into
Speaker 14: your body. And also when you compare the two Bella
Speaker 14: to Celeste, the younger child, Celeste does not have any
Speaker 14: oil in her stomach, so she's probably dead when she
Speaker 14: goes in, whereas the older child who obviously fought back
Speaker 14: because she's bitter cheek. She's got damage of her frinuline
Speaker 14: and gum line. She possibly was still alive when she
Speaker 14: was put into the oil drums.
Speaker 2: Franz of Borkart criminal defense attorney, founder Boorcart Law Firm.
Speaker 2: Why should he get a prison bride and steamy makeout sessions?
Speaker 11: I don't think he can. Wisconsin is a non conjugal
Speaker 11: visit state. Nancy, so well, I'm just worrying.
Speaker 2: What has it's happening.
Speaker 11: I'm telling you, they're not supposed to.
Speaker 2: Let that happened. Yeah, Nanny, Nanni, boo boo, don't do
Speaker 2: dead again. It's already happened. How is it happening?
Speaker 11: So, Nancy, even though he's incarcerated for the rest of
Speaker 11: his life, he still enjoys the same constitutional rights that
Speaker 11: we do. That includes the right to have visitors, the
Speaker 11: right to be married. As sick and as disgusting as.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm looking at the Constitution, the pocket Constitution
Speaker 2: I carry with me. I don't see any thing in
Speaker 2: here about a three times Some would argue four time
Speaker 2: convicted killer having a right to conjugal visits. The Constitution
Speaker 2: does not have the word conjugal in it in one place?
Speaker 2: Would you like to tell everybody what conjugal means sex?
Speaker 11: Conal means intimacy, intimacy?
Speaker 2: Okay, what look around are you in pre k No?
Speaker 2: Conjugal visits mean sex visits like your van der Sloot
Speaker 2: has with all the women that come to see him.
Speaker 2: I believe he's father two children since he was behind bars.
Speaker 2: That's what conjugal visits mean. Oh dear, don't take him down.
Speaker 2: The sight of him makes me ill. That's what a
Speaker 2: conjugal business. I don't see where the founding father says
Speaker 2: convicted killers have a right to get it on.
Speaker 11: But he hasn't had conjugal visits. Is there an allegation
Speaker 11: that he's had so with this woman? I don't think
Speaker 11: there is.
Speaker 2: Head blowing off? Dave Matt, can you please help Franz Bordheart,
Speaker 2: It's already happened. There are witnesses that saw the steamy
Speaker 2: makeout session behind bars on visiting day.
Speaker 10: Nancy in Wisconsin. In this prison, each inmate is allowed
Speaker 10: eight to ten seconds of physical contact with their visitor
Speaker 10: when the person arrives and when they leave. But for
Speaker 10: anybody who's familiar with how the prison system works, and
Speaker 10: our witnesses in there that saw the makeout session, it
Speaker 10: can go much longer than the eight to ten seconds.
Speaker 10: Once you allow touching, it goes as far as they
Speaker 10: can possibly take it.
Speaker 1: And that's what apparently is happening.
Speaker 10: Garts just turned the other way.
Speaker 2: To Ruth Bashenski, joining US investigative crime reporter at deal Email,
Speaker 2: who broke this story. There are steamy makeout sessions going.
Speaker 2: I don't know who this woman is. But before I
Speaker 2: get to who is mysterious Lizzie?
Speaker 1: What can you?
Speaker 2: Can you refresh Franz more parts recollection, in other words,
Speaker 2: talk some sense into him. It's happening. It's not not
Speaker 2: supposed to happen. It's already happened.
Speaker 9: Nancy is right, Franz, it is happening. They have apparently
Speaker 9: they did get married somehow. You know, we attempted to
Speaker 9: get those records and what we were getting some pushback from,
Speaker 9: I guess the officials in Wisconsin because unless I was
Speaker 9: next to Ken, they wouldn't release any information about what
Speaker 9: officially went down with Lizzie Henderson and Chris Watts. But
Speaker 9: what we know is that she was wearing a wedding band,
Speaker 9: a wedding ring, she legally changed her name to Lizzie Watts,
Speaker 9: and it just seems like it seems crazy. I mean,
Speaker 9: I'm sitting here and this whole story is bizarre. I
Speaker 9: think we're all wondering the same thing. Why would she
Speaker 9: want to be with someone who is an absolute psychopath.
Speaker 9: I'm still trying to investigate that, you know, God willing
Speaker 9: off on the answer at some point.
Speaker 8: But yeah, so it's happening in real time, and I'm.
Speaker 9: Sure she's still going to continue seeing him because now
Speaker 9: she's his wife.
Speaker 2: You were seeing pictures of Lizzie Henderson, the blushing Bride
Speaker 2: from our friends at Daily Mail.
Speaker 7: I was in a really, really, really bad place and
Speaker 7: I got friends to friend request from Chris on Facebook
Speaker 7: and I was like, Ah, what the heck, I'm never
Speaker 7: going to meet him, except well, one thing led to another,
Speaker 7: and eight years later, we have two kids, we live
Speaker 7: in Colorado, and he's the best thing that has ever
Speaker 7: happened to me.
Speaker 2: That is Shenan Watts, pregnant with baby Nico at the time.
Speaker 2: She was murdered and buried in a shallow grave not
Speaker 2: far from where her two daughters were disposed of in
Speaker 2: those oil canisters. Dodger Kendel Crowns, could you explain what
Speaker 2: is coffin birth.
Speaker 14: So Coffin birth is when a pregnant individual decomposes and
Speaker 14: the gases that are formed by the bacteria of decomposition
Speaker 14: causing the body to swell and bloat up and the
Speaker 14: pregnant person these gases begin to push on the uterus.
Speaker 14: They and if it creates enough pressure, it actually forces
Speaker 14: the unborn fetus out of the birth canal along with
Speaker 14: the placina. So coffin birth is a pregnant woman who
Speaker 14: is decomposed and then the decomposition gas pushes the baby out.
Speaker 2: Shanan had coffin birth there in that shallow grave at
Speaker 2: the Enadarco oil field. Baby Niko was born, both of
Speaker 2: them dead of course when her body was discovered. So
Speaker 2: now we've got Lizzie Henderson under his spell, we had
Speaker 2: Shenann under his spell, and here is Amanda McMahon clearly
Speaker 2: under his spell. What spell that is, I'm not sure,
Speaker 2: but listen, he just.
Speaker 6: Kind of pulled the next to me and he rolled
Speaker 6: down the pastor window and I rolled down, you know,
Speaker 6: my window, and he was like, come, in or you know,
Speaker 6: I'm mocked, he's a get in here or whatever. It
Speaker 6: was very he was very sure, very forward, very sure
Speaker 6: of himself. He was able to turn in term a
Speaker 6: charm for anything he needed from.
Speaker 2: Our friends at Daily Now.
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2: I need help. A guy comes up, rolls down the
Speaker 2: window and says, get in and you just jump in.
Speaker 2: Okay to Dater Jeralan Utter, joining us clinical psychologists specializing
Speaker 2: in psychological evaluations, just like this, author of main lining
Speaker 2: Philly Survival Hope Resisting drug Addiction, author of Aftershot, How
Speaker 2: Past Events shake up your life Today, and produced from
Speaker 2: Startup Utter Nonsense, help me out. He rolls down the
Speaker 2: window and says, get in, and she just jumps in,
Speaker 2: like curb service, you know, like an asnic you pull up,
Speaker 2: you toot too, and they bring you a hamburger like that.
Speaker 12: Like that, exactly like that. So I think it's important
Speaker 12: to pay attention to what she said after that. She
Speaker 12: said he was very forward. Was she indicated that he
Speaker 12: was very assertive. And there's something that I kind of
Speaker 12: want to bring to everyone's attention. There's a psychological concept
Speaker 12: Nancy called the halo effect and the halo effect has
Speaker 12: to do with what somebody looks like. So people who
Speaker 12: are perceived objectively as more attractive or handsome, they tend
Speaker 12: to like positive traits get associated or attached to them,
Speaker 12: whereas somebody who's less attractive.
Speaker 2: You know, he's handsome, doctor Jerlyn, I think he looks
Speaker 2: like Satan.
Speaker 12: He looks like Satan to you, But there are people
Speaker 12: and women out there that find him attractive, and don't
Speaker 12: put me in that list, because I'm with you, Nancy.
Speaker 12: I don't feel as though he's attractive at all. But
Speaker 12: there's a concept called the halo effect, a psychological concept,
Speaker 12: and that concept has to do with people who are
Speaker 12: perceived as attractive. It's hard for you to associate bad
Speaker 12: things with them. So if you're attractive and you're good looking,
Speaker 12: then people can't, you know, wrap around their heads that
Speaker 12: they could do something like this. They essentially get away
Speaker 12: with more, which is a perfect concept or quality to
Speaker 12: have if somebody perceives you as attractive and to also
Speaker 12: be a sociopath, which is what Christopher Watts is.
Speaker 2: To Ruth Bishenski, joining US investigative crime reporter at Daily Mail,
Speaker 2: who broke this story. Ruth, what can you tell me
Speaker 2: about the prison visit.
Speaker 8: So, Nancy, there was a I found this woman.
Speaker 9: She actually was visiting a loved one at the Dodge
Speaker 9: Correctional Facility where Chris is staying in for the rest
Speaker 9: of his life, and she saw she was actually in
Speaker 9: shock because Chris was a few feet away from her.
Speaker 9: She was with her person, just having a snack. The
Speaker 9: next thing she knows, she turns around and sees Chris
Speaker 9: Watts with this woman. They were reading the Bible together.
Speaker 9: She was kind of having like a silent freak out,
Speaker 9: like turning around, goving, does anyone see what I'm seeing?
Speaker 8: This is Chris Watts.
Speaker 9: He killed his wife and on born son and two
Speaker 9: little daughters. And she was kind of having like a moment,
Speaker 9: and she walked closer to him so she can see
Speaker 9: his name tag that said Chris Watts. And she told
Speaker 9: me that she so wanted to see to him. You're
Speaker 9: my hero, Daddy's my hero. But obviously she knew she
Speaker 9: would get kicked out of the facility.
Speaker 8: If she did.
Speaker 9: But she was thinking what we're all thinking, why is
Speaker 9: he allowed to have this so called girlfriend now wife?
Speaker 9: And she was just as you know, agitated as we
Speaker 9: were like thinking, how could this go on? And when
Speaker 9: I spoke to Lizzie on the phone, she basically doesn't.
Speaker 9: She was very angry that I was actually trying to
Speaker 9: find her. She was angry that I was reaching out
Speaker 9: to family members. She did not want to be called.
Speaker 9: She doesn't want to be in the public eye. She
Speaker 9: basically was very defensive of being with Chris, and she
Speaker 9: was saying like it was between her, Chris and God,
Speaker 9: and that you know, people could perceive their relationship as
Speaker 9: being very strange and weird, and Chris knows how she feels.
Speaker 9: But she said that, you know, basically it's really no
Speaker 9: one's business. Yes, And you know, she's kind of like
Speaker 9: an alternative universe. I feel like she just is in
Speaker 9: denial with these heinous crimes that he committed, and she
Speaker 9: doesn't want to be in the public eye. And she's
Speaker 9: telling me she's a very private person. But meanwhile she's
Speaker 9: with America's most hated person in.
Speaker 8: The world, you know, kill her dad, Ruth.
Speaker 1: But she's gay.
Speaker 2: I appreciate them reading the Bible together, But what about
Speaker 2: the makeout session, as Franz board Card says, that didn't happen,
Speaker 2: Yes it did. It's called a conjugal visit boardcard. Is
Speaker 2: she the same one that saw that go down?
Speaker 11: She saw?
Speaker 9: Okay, so when she was in the visiting room and
Speaker 9: she saw Chris Watts, she saw them.
Speaker 8: They're not allowed to.
Speaker 9: Have any physical touch during the actual visit. All they
Speaker 9: can really do is talk and hold the Bible and pray.
Speaker 9: But when it was time to when they she arrived
Speaker 9: and when she left, they will really hugging and making
Speaker 9: out and kissing.
Speaker 8: They were literally all over each other.
Speaker 9: And then they got to take a picture together and
Speaker 9: you know, I don't know, he pays for it out
Speaker 9: of his commissary.
Speaker 8: It's like got dollas twenty five. And you know she
Speaker 8: saw them. They were ahead of her holding each other
Speaker 8: for this prison photo. And of course I was going
Speaker 8: to see that prison photo. I'll never get to see
Speaker 8: and I hope, but never say never.
Speaker 9: And yeah, she saw it with her own eyes, and
Speaker 9: she was freaking out, and I'm so happy that she
Speaker 9: shared this story with me and I got to report
Speaker 9: on it.
Speaker 8: So yeah, who knows, maybe she'll be pregnant.
Speaker 11: Who knows.
Speaker 6: We kind of connected or bonded over the fact that
Speaker 6: we were both going through what he told me separation
Speaker 6: from his He called her his baby mama or like
Speaker 6: just like he never referred to her as his wife.
Speaker 6: Like never remember him saying that he took the angle
Speaker 6: that she was using the kids as a pond for
Speaker 6: him and kind of just dingling him and making his
Speaker 6: life miserable about it, you'd call her a psycho and
Speaker 6: cool digging just like any like just shot that you
Speaker 6: could take he took, you know, like, he said that
Speaker 6: her purpose in life was to make him miserable. At
Speaker 6: one point I knew you know what it was when
Speaker 6: going into it, and he made it very clear.
Speaker 2: Okay from our friends at Daily Mail, let me understand
Speaker 2: that what I'm seeing right there. To Ruth Bashinski, there
Speaker 2: you seeing one, I mean, get in line of his
Speaker 2: many mistresses. That's a Manda mcmon stating we connected and
Speaker 2: bonded over the fact we were going through what he
Speaker 2: told me separation. You mean they're still married, that's what
Speaker 2: that means. He called her his baby mama. It's a
Speaker 2: good thing I don't have a gun because if my
Speaker 2: husband ever called me that, there would be some shooting. Okay.
Speaker 2: He called her the baby mama. Okay, what else? He
Speaker 2: never referred to her as his wife. He took the
Speaker 2: angle the children were a pawn, and he called her
Speaker 2: a psycho and a gold digger. She was the one working,
Speaker 2: having to travel out of town. She worked, She redecorated
Speaker 2: the whole home on a budget. She bought the clothes
Speaker 2: for the children, She took care of the children, She
Speaker 2: fed the children. He just showed up. What and he's
Speaker 2: calling her the gold digger.
Speaker 9: Well, it shows you how twisted his mind was. I mean,
Speaker 9: he was You're not dealing with someone normal, clearly. I mean,
Speaker 9: you know, when Amanda met Chris, they met on Tinder,
Speaker 9: and it just seems like he was, you know, going
Speaker 9: through all these dating apps and Amanda seemed like she
Speaker 9: was just part of his playbook. And you know when
Speaker 9: they met at the chick fil A, we were it
Speaker 9: on this and they went in the car that had
Speaker 9: the tinted windows, and then they drove to her apartment
Speaker 9: and they had, you know, their sexual encounter. They were,
Speaker 9: you know, playing a really strange movie.
Speaker 8: In the background. I'm sure you'll get to that. Shutter Islands.
Speaker 8: That movie was so eerie. It was about Leonardo DiCaprio
Speaker 8: was in it.
Speaker 9: It's about this marshal that kills his children first and
Speaker 9: then he kills his wife. And Chris was the one
Speaker 9: who decided to choose that movie. When he was alone
Speaker 9: with Amanda having you know, very rough sex that terrified
Speaker 9: her basically just like what went on in that bedroom.
Speaker 9: I just can't stop thinking about it because I felt
Speaker 9: like he was enacting what he was eventually.
Speaker 8: Going to do with Shanan, So I mean, I can
Speaker 8: go on it, you know.
Speaker 9: I mean, you know, she described it as, you know,
Speaker 9: he put his hands around his neck, he was choking her.
Speaker 8: He went from normal to crazy. His eyes just completely.
Speaker 9: Changed, and that he basically had this animalistic fury in him,
Speaker 9: so you know, he like turned her around and wanted
Speaker 9: to do things to her that you know, so violating.
Speaker 9: Like you know, they were they were pretty much on
Speaker 9: a first date. You know, it's one thing that they
Speaker 9: got intimate, but how he was acting towards her which
Speaker 9: just completely so scary. I mean, it's hard to believe
Speaker 9: they continued with this ten month relationship, but that's what
Speaker 9: they did. She was going through a tough time with
Speaker 9: her ex and custody of their kids. He was lying
Speaker 9: to her every minute. She was also addicted to prescription drugs.
Speaker 8: They were both in. She was in a bad place.
Speaker 8: She wasn't thinking rationally, That's why she chose Chris.
Speaker 1: But clearly he was.
Speaker 8: He's a madman.
Speaker 9: I have no idea what to see Hunterson season hell,
Speaker 9: and I'm just intrigued. As the whole contrary.
Speaker 6: When we met that first time in the parking lot.
Speaker 1: You know, crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 6: Knew what was going to happen. The whole thing was
Speaker 6: was just off. It was like, you know, it was
Speaker 6: like a snap of finger like things just kind of changed,
Speaker 6: Like he just got like it's like something came over
Speaker 6: him and we went from normal to crazy like brutal
Speaker 6: on those he just didn't look the same in his eyes.
Speaker 6: It happened way too fast, you know, and it threw
Speaker 6: it threw me off. I wasn't scared like I was
Speaker 6: going to die. I was scared like he was going
Speaker 6: to hurt me, you know, like not intentionally. We only
Speaker 6: ever had sex like maybe two other times. I would
Speaker 6: always you know, I mean, he definitely hit me up
Speaker 6: a lot more and for that we hung out a
Speaker 6: few more times without.
Speaker 5: The physical stuf.
Speaker 6: He was extremely rough and he didn't really ask permission,
Speaker 6: and he choked me. I'm pretty aggressive. It's so awkward
Speaker 6: for me to talk about all this. He had his
Speaker 6: hand on my neck and it probably eoks hu minutes
Speaker 6: in and that's when it kind of turned a little crazy.
Speaker 6: So he had put his hand on my throat and
Speaker 6: I got all freaked out anyway, and you just kind
Speaker 6: of have this like animalistic fury. Like it was just hard,
Speaker 6: it was rough, and he just went into his own
Speaker 6: He just didn't look the same in his eyes. He
Speaker 6: took me by by the neck and he grabbed me
Speaker 6: from underneath. He pulled me up and then he like
Speaker 6: turned me down and it was very, very uncomfortable. It
Speaker 6: was weird.
Speaker 2: That's from our friends at Daily Mail and the Trial USA. Well.
Speaker 2: The new prison Bride, the mysterious Lizzie Henderson is not
Speaker 2: the first woman to fall for and marry a convicted killer.
Speaker 2: Until death do us part a forever? Promise to have
Speaker 2: it to hold But what if you can't hold them?
Speaker 2: What if they're behind bars for murder? Ted Bundy, Charles Manson,
Speaker 2: the Menindez Brothers, Chris Watts, they all found love in
Speaker 2: luck of as a victim of violent crime. Myself these
Speaker 2: murder matchups behind bars are very hard for me to understand.
Speaker 2: Why do women marry men who murder? Why with all
Speaker 2: the men and the world, would anyone ever marry a murderer.
Speaker 4: It feels wonderful.
Speaker 10: I'm so happy.
Speaker 15: I'm so thrilled, very proud, and a little believe that
Speaker 15: the bulk of the day is over and just hopefully
Speaker 15: I can enjoy the rest of my day in peace
Speaker 15: with Richard's family and think about the importance of what
Speaker 15: happened today.
Speaker 2: That from our friends at Foxination marrying a murderer, and
Speaker 2: from hard Copy that was Daren Lloyd, Richard Ramirez's wife.
Speaker 2: But there's more.
Speaker 6: Have you ever found somebody that you kind of feel like,
Speaker 6: kind of saves you when you lost yourself.
Speaker 7: I almost feel like he's like my lighthouse. He guided
Speaker 7: me back to where I really needed to be.
Speaker 2: Gonzalez admits he takes the butt of a gun and
Speaker 2: beats Thornberg repeatedly in the head, bashing his skull in
Speaker 2: and leaving him on the floor to bleed out and die.
Speaker 2: Gonzalez confessed, and he pled guilty in court under oath.
Speaker 2: He pleads guilty to a brutal murder but it didn't
Speaker 2: matter to his prison bride, and we see it played
Speaker 2: out again now with killer Dad Chris Watson. That's from
Speaker 2: our friends at Fox Nation, and you were hearing Kathy
Speaker 2: Gonzalez Tattoo. Gonzalez's wife. Joining us now is a special guest, CHERYLN. Catl,
Speaker 2: the author of The Murders of Christopher Watts and The
Speaker 2: Meany Faces of Christopher Watts, A five year update. Cherylin
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us tonight. What's your take
Speaker 2: on the new prison Bride?
Speaker 8: Well, I'm not surprised.
Speaker 13: Back in early twenty four she messaged me and told
Speaker 13: me that she was kind of with him and wanted
Speaker 13: to know what I thought, And I told her what
Speaker 13: I thought, and she ended up cussing me out and
Speaker 13: telling me I was so totally wrong. That well, at
Speaker 13: the very beginning, when I asked him about her, he
Speaker 13: denied knowing her, and when I told her that, she
Speaker 13: got really angry. And I didn't know for sure, because
Speaker 13: there's a lot of women that have messaged me and
Speaker 13: so that they are getting letters with him from him,
Speaker 13: and they're very sexual and they felt, you know, this
Speaker 13: romantic tie to him.
Speaker 8: So I don't know about Lizzie here, She's not going to.
Speaker 2: Be the only one.
Speaker 8: I hope she realizes that.
Speaker 13: But what I question that I have, Nancy, is are
Speaker 13: those Shenan's wedding rings that Lizzie is wearing?
Speaker 2: Oh, dear Lord in Heaven. Okay, Ruth Bashinski? These are
Speaker 2: shots from the Daily Meal and with us is Ruth
Speaker 2: Bashinski who broke the story, the investigative crime reporter at
Speaker 2: Daily Meal. Is he using his dead wives wedding man
Speaker 2: and rings with Lizzie?
Speaker 9: That is literally the first thing that went through my mind.
Speaker 9: I'm like, that has got to be answerings. I mean,
Speaker 9: where would he get them? But we are looking into
Speaker 9: that right now, Nancy, because I need to find out
Speaker 9: where those rings came from.
Speaker 8: I doubt they came from. I don't know where they're from,
Speaker 8: but it seems like it. Hope you should.
Speaker 2: But it's Ruth, Ruth, Ruth, I guarantee you this. He
Speaker 2: did not get them at the prison Commissary. I believe
Speaker 2: you'd answer, what, if any financial gain could there possibly
Speaker 2: be to marry Chris Watts, a family annihilator, a guy
Speaker 2: that's had a string of affairs behind his wife's back.
Speaker 2: Let's think, think, think, ye we.
Speaker 5: According to content creator Plunder, please go over subscribe to
Speaker 5: her channel, give her credit where it's due. Lizzy filed
Speaker 5: a Chapter seven bankruptcy before moving from Ohio to Wisconsin.
Speaker 5: Why do I bring this up?
Speaker 2: And why does Plunder bring it up as well?
Speaker 1: I mean, we're not here to air dirty laundry.
Speaker 5: Like I said, a lot of us have known about
Speaker 5: Lizzie for two years and have said nothing because we
Speaker 5: care about this woman's genuine safety.
Speaker 2: It's not about.
Speaker 5: Going after her because she's with Chris Watts. We're here
Speaker 5: to be like honey, we want you to find Jesus
Speaker 5: and get away from Chris Watts. But anyway, digress. So
Speaker 5: the reason we bring up the Chapter seven bankruptcy is
Speaker 5: it would show motive as to why would you marry
Speaker 5: Chris Watts.
Speaker 2: To Cherylyn Catle joining us, author of the Murders of
Speaker 2: Christopher Watts. In the Many Faces of Christopher Watt's A
Speaker 2: five year updates Cherylyn. Isn't it true that Christopher Watts
Speaker 2: stated at some point during the investigation he took Sheenan's
Speaker 2: rings off her finger and set them on the bedside table.
Speaker 13: Yes, and I do believe that his mother ended up
Speaker 13: with him for him, There's very few things that they
Speaker 13: were able to keep, but the wedding rings were.
Speaker 8: I would be so shocked that those are not the
Speaker 8: wedding rings that sNaN wore.
Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Jerald utter, what does that mean? Who wants
Speaker 2: to wear a murdered woman's wedding rings and band? This
Speaker 2: has got to mean something psychologic. But I'm just a
Speaker 2: trial lawyer, So what does it mean.
Speaker 12: If we assume that that's even true. I mean, with
Speaker 12: my experience working with incarcerated individuals and people who love them,
Speaker 12: a lot of the times, the women who get married,
Speaker 12: you know, to men who are incarcerated or partner who
Speaker 12: are incarcerated, are actually out there buying their own rings
Speaker 12: on their own dime. So I wouldn't be surprised if,
Speaker 12: if you know, if she purchased them herselves. But I think,
Speaker 12: but I think the bigger issue here is and what
Speaker 12: people are like. I don't understand how all person can
Speaker 12: do this, How can a woman do this? He's an annihilator,
Speaker 12: he's a sociopath. But this is one thing psychologically that
Speaker 12: you want to pay attention attention to a lot of women,
Speaker 12: aren't this woman in particular, Lizzie is not seeing the
Speaker 12: Chris that killed his family. Yes, intellectually she has received
Speaker 12: that information and she knows. But what she what she's
Speaker 12: saying and what her own psyche's doing, is she's thinking, well,
Speaker 12: you know, I can get to the good man underneath,
Speaker 12: like I know that there's a good guy there and
Speaker 12: I'm the one me, Lizzy, I'm the one who has
Speaker 12: helped bring that out. And you know, this relationship is
Speaker 12: going to be different. Another thing that is really important
Speaker 12: to understand is regardless if you're getting conjugal visits or
Speaker 12: you're getting a little sexy or intimacy or whatever you
Speaker 12: want to call it with someone in prison, the other
Speaker 12: thing that you want to remember is it does not
Speaker 12: test what happens in the rural world. He will never
Speaker 12: be able to do to Lizzy what he did to
Speaker 12: Amanda and obviously what he did to Shanan. So him,
Speaker 12: you know that dark, the eyes getting dark, and having
Speaker 12: like sex with her and it being rough, It'll never
Speaker 12: get like that with her. So for Lizzie, it affords
Speaker 12: her the opportunity to continue living in this fantasy world
Speaker 12: that isn't representative of the real Chris. So you know,
Speaker 12: when people say, how can a woman be like that?
Speaker 12: It's because they're getting a version, not the murderer version.
Speaker 12: They're getting a different version of this person, and they'll
Speaker 12: never get close to Chris Watt's the murderer. She'll never
Speaker 12: see that the way that other people in the outside
Speaker 12: world have.
Speaker 5: I don't think that that Ted belongs in jail. The
Speaker 5: things in Florida don't concern me any more than the
Speaker 5: things out west do.
Speaker 11: And those are the things you think.
Speaker 8: These are trumped up charges.
Speaker 7: I don't think they had reason to charge Ted Bendy
Speaker 7: with murder in either Leon County or Columbia County.
Speaker 13: Are you in love?
Speaker 12: Yeah, the paperwork hasn't gone through yet, but we already
Speaker 12: con consider each other to be a husband and wife.
Speaker 12: People think you're crazy.
Speaker 8: I really don't care.
Speaker 16: There are many who would look at Richard Ramirez in
Speaker 16: the eye and say he is the face of evil,
Speaker 16: And yet you look at him and you see the
Speaker 16: man of your dreams.
Speaker 2: Yes, who needs glasses here?
Speaker 8: I can't help the way the world looks at him.
Speaker 8: They don't know him the way I do.
Speaker 2: Okay, just to quick round up, the first woman you
Speaker 2: saw is Carol Ann Boone. Ted Bundy's wife. The next
Speaker 2: is from our friends at CNN. That's often star Elaine Burton,
Speaker 2: Charles Manson's fiance. And the last one you saw is
Speaker 2: Daren Lloyd Richard Ramirez's wife. Okay, I'd like to just say.
Speaker 1: What's wrong with them?
Speaker 2: But they seem normal to Franz, Borcart joining US veteran
Speaker 2: trial lawyer out of the Baton Rouge jurisdiction. Could this
Speaker 2: be a ploy to dig herself out of a BA cruptcy?
Speaker 2: Is that why she's with Chris Watts?
Speaker 11: Or or attention seeking behavior because she's got a platform
Speaker 11: now we're talking about her, we're on national TV, no less.
Speaker 11: So it could be that Wisconsin has a son of
Speaker 11: Sam law where he can't profit off of his crime.
Speaker 11: I don't know that it extends to her Nancy. So
Speaker 11: can she profit off of her story? Yeah? I think
Speaker 11: that she can profit off of the relationship.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's an excellent point. Franz to Sheryl and Catle
Speaker 2: joining us author of the Murders of Christopher Watts and
Speaker 2: The Many Faces of Christopher Watts a five year update.
Speaker 2: You worked with him extensively creating those two books. Is
Speaker 2: he that charming that he could literally charm the pants
Speaker 2: off this woman.
Speaker 13: Not to me, he's not, but I can see why
Speaker 13: some women who maybe have a need for the extra
Speaker 13: affection or attention, or maybe something happened in there. I'm
Speaker 13: not a psychiatrist, so I'm not able to say exactly
Speaker 13: what happened, but why she would want someone like that.
Speaker 13: It's got to be a tension seeking like they've said,
Speaker 13: or that she's had something.
Speaker 2: Look at your monitor. Yes, that's a sheet that she
Speaker 2: then was wrapped in. She had the baby in that
Speaker 2: she dirt. Yeah, what that's where she gave birth to
Speaker 2: baby Nico, and then he just shoveled the dirt on
Speaker 2: her face. And somehow he's still getting women even behind bars.
Speaker 2: A prison bride. Just a quick reality check to doctor
Speaker 2: Kendall Crown's esteemed a lecturer at the Burnett School of
Speaker 2: Medicine at TCU and are now medical examiner Dodger Kendall Crowns,
Speaker 2: could you just remind us what happened to Shenan?
Speaker 14: So Shenan had injuries of her neck that were consistent
Speaker 14: with a manual strangulation, hemorrhages in her neck musculature. So
Speaker 14: she was strangled until she passed out, and then her
Speaker 14: husband continued to strangle her for another three to four
Speaker 14: minutes until she was dead. Once she was dead, she
Speaker 14: was then buried in a shallow grave where she decomposed
Speaker 14: over time, her bodies changing green discoloration, skin stepping off,
Speaker 14: filling up with decompositional gases that then created the pressure
Speaker 14: that resulted in the coffin birth or the baby Nico
Speaker 14: being expelled out of the vaginal canal. So she died
Speaker 14: a fairly brutal death because it's a manual strangulation. So
Speaker 14: she probably fought back and was just strangled until she
Speaker 14: was dead.
Speaker 3: And then what happened?
Speaker 4: I looked at her just.
Speaker 3: On the top or you gonna tell some Shenan did
Speaker 3: the same thing?
Speaker 4: Okay, did you.
Speaker 3: Get to knock her down?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: She was already on the ground, and I was like,
Speaker 3: I just pulled her off on the bed and oh,
Speaker 3: kind of one moved out. Okay. So it's not as though, yeah,
Speaker 3: and I didn't hold her out, No, like I went
Speaker 3: to fold her down like.
Speaker 4: I did that. I I didn't know.
Speaker 3: I lost it.
Speaker 4: Sure, Okay, So Sheinano was playing on the ground on
Speaker 4: the bed, on the bed.
Speaker 3: The babies are gone.
Speaker 4: Didn't uh?
Speaker 3: I had put my hands around my wife's neck and
Speaker 3: did that same thing.
Speaker 4: It did sinan play back at all.
Speaker 12: H just done.
Speaker 3: The rags that I had After seeing that, I.
Speaker 7: Not much.
Speaker 3: Are they in the tanks? Can somebody who doesn't know
Speaker 3: what they're doing helping us?
Speaker 4: Okay, you don't in the tanks.
Speaker 3: It's a mixture of oil and lurt.
Speaker 4: Tell me that she found out here? Where's that from?
Speaker 3: That was what Schanelle was wrapped in.
Speaker 4: What about the curlies? What were they wrapped in?
Speaker 3: Just a empatunas.
Speaker 4: Don't their blankets or anything? Where did their blankets and tight.
Speaker 3: Contracto m probably flew back and lend or something right here?
Speaker 4: Where did you shut them or put them?
Speaker 10: That was right here?
Speaker 2: Shenanne wants pregnant with Niko, four year old Bella three
Speaker 2: year old celest All dead and he their killer has
Speaker 2: a new prison bride and steamy makeout sessions. We wait
Speaker 2: as justice unfolds, And now we remember an American hero,
Speaker 2: Lieutenant John Stewart Lake CITYPD, South Carolina, killed in the
Speaker 2: line of duty after twenty one years on the force,
Speaker 2: leaving behind his sons, Nicholas and to Shaun American hero
Speaker 2: Lieutenant John Stuart. Thank you to our guests for being
Speaker 2: with us, but especially to you for being with us tonight.
Speaker 2: Nancy Gray signing off for tonight, but I'll see tomorrow night,
Speaker 2: and until then, goodnight,