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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A little boy just twelve

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Speaker 1: years old. What is that fifth grade is dead after

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Speaker 1: just twenty four hours at summer camp, found dead without

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Speaker 1: his pants in the last hours. Ruled a homicide. Good evening,

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 2: A twelve year old boy dies just twenty four hours

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Speaker 2: after arriving at a wilderness therapy camp. His death now

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Speaker 2: ruled a homicide.

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Speaker 1: Good Lord in heaven, you send your child away to

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Speaker 1: a wellness camp for his own good on beautiful trails

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Speaker 1: and forested areas in Carolina, and in less than twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours at camp.

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Speaker 3: He's dead.

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Speaker 1: Last hours, this little boy's death has been ruled a homicide.

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Speaker 1: With me an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 1: what we know right now, including an investigative reporter, a

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Speaker 1: renowned medical examiner, therapist, and importantly the co founder CEO

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Speaker 1: of unsilenced, a victim of the troubled teen industry, and

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Speaker 1: a beautiful young woman who attended the camp at just

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Speaker 1: age twelve like this little boy, as I like to

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Speaker 1: do with juries when I can. Let's go back to

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Speaker 1: when this happened and hear the nine to one one

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Speaker 1: call based as.

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Speaker 4: A side unders finding Cambro Trus, Carolina.

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Speaker 5: So a girl now alas Thursday ones that are out

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Speaker 5: of cities. Goty's responding, I've brought podcast the college pos

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Speaker 5: for us. I'm not sure I'm thinking contact with them again.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: When we looked up their codes eight and eleven, we

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Speaker 1: learned that means carbon monoxide inhalation or choking. So that

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Speaker 1: tells NIL one immediately that there's some type of respiratory

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Speaker 1: sell your let's listen to more.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I didn't go the SURGU twelve one two.

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Speaker 5: Okay, maybe four CPR is being given at this time.

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Speaker 6: I had to add somebody up the flag.

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Speaker 5: Y'all had just behind the five hundred buildings. I can

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Speaker 5: lose a contact with the subject core service.

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Speaker 6: I'm here. I don't see work.

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Speaker 1: I mean, my stars, you've got a little boy dying

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Speaker 1: or dead on your watch.

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Speaker 3: It's just been ruled homicide.

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Speaker 1: This camp is full of counselors and kids, and they

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Speaker 1: don't have anybody out there to direct the ambulance to

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Speaker 1: the right location in a giant wilderness camp. I mean

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Speaker 1: before I go to Nick Auxner, investigative producer and chief

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter WBTV to doctor Eric Eeson, renowned forensic pathologist

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Speaker 1: doctor Ethan. For lack of a better term, that's BS.

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, my dad had one cardiac event. As

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Speaker 1: doctors like to say, after the next one of us,

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Speaker 1: my mom will be performing, be performing CPR, another one

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Speaker 1: of us will be out in the driveway waving trying

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Speaker 1: to flag down the ambulance. I mean, every second counts.

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Speaker 1: And guess what, they saved his life more than once.

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Speaker 1: So here you got the ambulances driving around the camp

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Speaker 1: just for starters, trying to find the little boy.

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Speaker 3: I mean, have you ever heard anything like it? A

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Speaker 3: camp full of.

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Speaker 1: Counselors, they're supposed to be trained in CPR and doing

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Speaker 1: the right thing.

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Speaker 7: I've never heard anything like that happened for myself.

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Speaker 8: It wasn't a remote area, so maybe that had something

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Speaker 8: to do with it, But yeah, sounds like it was

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Speaker 8: a pretty disorganized.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and that's just exactly what you don't need. Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, remote area parents paying thousands of dollars to

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Speaker 1: send their children.

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Speaker 3: This isn't even a teen. He's twelve years.

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Speaker 1: Old from New York, thousands of miles away in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the wilderness and nobody can even get the

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Speaker 1: ambulance to the boy to try to save his life.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that's just a tip of the iceberg. Listen.

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Speaker 6: They said they had to.

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Speaker 5: Go to the hall to call, said when they woke

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Speaker 5: up everything we're doing the bed and rest.

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Speaker 6: Hey, I think I god want when you get to

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Speaker 6: my truck, come all the way out for here and

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Speaker 6: get to my truck. Come by that cabin and let's

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Speaker 6: see you. This is I got you that I'm showing you.

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Speaker 6: All things come almost so.

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Speaker 1: The counselors get told there's something wrong, and now they

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Speaker 1: say they had to go to the office to make

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Speaker 1: the call.

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Speaker 3: So how many more minutes did they lose?

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Speaker 1: But listen, their incompetence is really just a tip of

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Speaker 1: the iceberg.

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Speaker 3: For those of you just joining us.

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Speaker 1: Parents send a twelve year old boy to a wilderness camp,

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Speaker 1: a wellness camp, as they call it, it's anything but well.

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Speaker 1: And let me tell you something, this little boy is

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Speaker 1: not the first time that someone has ended up dead

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Speaker 1: at Carolina Trails. And then we find out the counselors

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Speaker 1: of staff won't cooperate with the investigation.

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Speaker 9: Listen, the Transylvania County Sheriff's Office said when they arrived

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Speaker 9: at Trails, Carolina for an unresponsive participant, medicks found evidence

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Speaker 9: that CPR had been performed, but the child appeared deceased

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Speaker 9: for some time. But now, in an odd twist of trust,

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Speaker 9: the Wilderness Therapy Camp in North Carolina is refusing to

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Speaker 9: allow investigators to talk to staff or juveniles present when

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Speaker 9: the twelve year old died. According to a search warrant,

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Speaker 9: the boy suffered a panic attack the night he arrived

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Speaker 9: at the camp, and the next morning he was found cold, stiff,

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Speaker 9: and frothing at the mouth, not being able to talk

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Speaker 9: to staff or campers. It is unclear what caused the

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Speaker 9: boy to present with frothing from the mouth. According to

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Speaker 9: an affidavit from the detective that got the search warrant,

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Speaker 9: froth about the mouth could end kate he ingested some

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Speaker 9: sort of poison.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I gave up cursing where the twins

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Speaker 1: were born. But every way, every term I can think

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Speaker 1: of to describe this would break.

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Speaker 3: That vow for those of you just joining us.

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Speaker 1: A shock coroner's report reveals that a twelve year old

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Speaker 1: little boy is dead at Trails Carolina Wellness Camp due

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Speaker 1: to homicide. First of all, I want to go to

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Speaker 1: Nick Oxnar, joining US executive producer, chief investigative reporter at WBTV,

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Speaker 1: and he has been investigating Trails Carolina since May twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty one. Okay, Nick Oxnar, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: It raises a huge red flag when witnesses and employees

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Speaker 1: will not cooperate with LA law enforcement.

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Speaker 4: That's a I think it was a concern for the sheriff,

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Speaker 4: and he highlighted that lack of cooperation in the public

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Speaker 4: and statements that he's made that his deputies couldn't get

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Speaker 4: information about what happened on the scene, and they've continued investigating.

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Speaker 1: You have been investigating. This camp is so called therapeutic camp.

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Speaker 1: Therapeutic forty nine hundred dollars the last time I looked

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Speaker 1: to enroll up to seven hundred plus dollars a day

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Speaker 1: for a twelve year old to do what walk around

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Speaker 1: the trails and have three hots and a cot.

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Speaker 3: I mean nearly eight hundred.

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Speaker 1: Dollars a day, five grand enrollment fee. Why did you,

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Speaker 1: Nick Oxen, begin investigating Trails Carolina.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we got a phone call from a concerned parent

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Speaker 4: whose child almost went there and Essentially, that phone call

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Speaker 4: said I've looked into this place and done my own

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Speaker 4: homework and maybe you ought to look into it as well.

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Speaker 4: And actually, Nancy, what we found is that the children

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Speaker 4: attending Trails Carolina most of the time don't even.

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Speaker 10: Get a cot.

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Speaker 4: They're actually sleeping in a sleeping bag or a sleeping matt,

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Speaker 4: either in a cabin or out in the wilderness.

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Speaker 10: And that's just emblematic.

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Speaker 4: I say that, because emblematic of the kind of experience

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Speaker 4: they're getting at this ord, at this facility.

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Speaker 3: How did the whole thing start? Listen.

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Speaker 11: The parents of a twelve year old boy think Trails

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Speaker 11: Carolina might be just the place to help their son.

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Speaker 11: Trails Carolina claims to be a leader in wilderness therapy,

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Speaker 11: offering an adventure wilderness program for children who have behavioral

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Speaker 11: and or emotional difficulties. The parents say their boy is

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Speaker 11: transported by two men from New York to Trails Carolina

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Speaker 11: Camp at Lake Talksaway, North Carolina. Their son arrives at

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Speaker 11: the camp in an agitated state. The twelve year old

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Speaker 11: is loud and disruptive, but he is assigned to a

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Speaker 11: cabin with other children, as well as four adults in

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Speaker 11: less than twenty four hours. The twelve year old is dead.

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Speaker 11: Sheriff Chuck owenb says an autopsy is being conducted because

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Speaker 11: the death appears suspicious since the boy died at the

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Speaker 11: camp less than twenty four hours after he arrived.

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Speaker 3: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 1: A boy dead just twelve years old, twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: after getting to camp having panic attacks upset. I wonder

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Speaker 1: why found dead without his pants on joining me In

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Speaker 1: addition to Nick Oxner from WTV, Leanne Roberts is joining us.

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Speaker 1: A beautiful young woman who attended Trails Carolina age twelve,

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Speaker 1: just like this little boy. Leanne, thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us. Tell me about your experience at Trails Carolina.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, so, from the very first minute that you're there,

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Speaker 12: it's pretty traumatizing. The thing that they have you do is,

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Speaker 12: you know, conduct a strip search, and everything you have

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Speaker 12: is taken from you. And that kind of set the

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Speaker 12: tone for the rest of my stay there. I experienced,

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Speaker 12: you know, and witnessed things that no twelve year old

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Speaker 12: ever should, no child ever, should, no person ever really should,

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Speaker 12: all in the name of therapy, which we actually weren't

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Speaker 12: even really receiving. We saw a therapist once to maybe

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Speaker 12: two times a week. So I mean, yeah, just just horrible.

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Speaker 12: There were you know, we weren't getting enough food at

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Speaker 12: twelve years old. I enrolled at ninety pounds and I

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Speaker 12: left at eighty, so that's ten pounds over a three

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Speaker 12: month span. I spent Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's there.

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Speaker 12: We weren't given enough adequate gear for the weather, the temperature,

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Speaker 12: so we got to like negative twenty degrees and we

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Speaker 12: had two three layers max. Of really thin clothing.

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Speaker 3: Just some some horrific, horrific stuff.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm trying to take in everything that you

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Speaker 1: were saying, but you gave me so much information I've

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Speaker 1: got to dissect it.

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Speaker 3: You said that you, as a twelve.

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Speaker 1: Year old little girl, saw things that no child nor

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Speaker 1: anyone should ever see, such as what you know.

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Speaker 12: On many occasions, I saw my friends' faces being pushed

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Speaker 12: in the ground when being put on a restrictive hold.

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Speaker 12: I you know, experienced and watched my friends be so

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Speaker 12: emotionally manipulated. We had a problem with when I was there,

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Speaker 12: with understaffing, and they wouldn't have enough staff sometimes to

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Speaker 12: facilitate facilitate bathroom breaks, and so that meant that instead

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Speaker 12: of letting us use the restroom, they would rather us

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Speaker 12: like pr pants. And so in a solution to that,

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Speaker 12: because we weren't doing laundry, we weren't getting showers, everyone

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Speaker 12: smell of urine, and they threatened, and for some girls

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Speaker 12: distributed adult diapers instead of letting us use the restroom.

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Speaker 12: And that's truthfully only like the tip of the iceberg,

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Speaker 12: which is deeply saddening. But those are, you know, just

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Speaker 12: a few things that come to mind.

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Speaker 1: Leanne went to this camp at just twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: Praise the Lord, she's alive. The damage and the trauma

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Speaker 1: and the emotional problems it's caused her, that's a whole

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Speaker 1: nother can of worms. But she's alive, so she lives

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Speaker 1: to fight another day. She lives to deal with what

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Speaker 1: happened at Trails, Carolina.

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Speaker 3: This little boy.

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Speaker 1: Didn't live twelve years old, Pale, frail, upset, having panic.

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Speaker 3: Attacks, and he dies within twenty four hours of going

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Speaker 3: to this camp. This is camp season. Parents, wake up,

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Speaker 3: be alert, Lee and Roberts.

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Speaker 1: You stated that when you got there you had to

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Speaker 1: be strip searched, that you were not given bathroom breaks,

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Speaker 1: that the campers were told to wear adult diapers so

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Speaker 1: they could urinate and defecate in their pants.

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Speaker 12: Why, I mean, they would have all these kind of

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Speaker 12: like safety reasons. They didn't really have an excuse for

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Speaker 12: the diapers other than it was our fault for drinking

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Speaker 12: so much water and not managing it, which is ridiculous,

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Speaker 12: because if you got to go, you gotta go. But

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Speaker 12: the strip searching, you know, they say it's to make

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Speaker 12: sure you don't have anything dangerous on you, but they

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Speaker 12: take away everything you come in with. And I genuinely

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Speaker 12: do believe that it's, you know, a way to strip

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Speaker 12: you of your individuality and maybe any comfort you have

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Speaker 12: going in. You're dressed all the same as the other children.

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Speaker 12: You don't have anything that, you know, like I said,

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Speaker 12: as comforting or makes you feel safe or you know,

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Speaker 12: you're just kind of stripped down to the bone.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned the strip search you're describing that, guys, I

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Speaker 1: doubt all.

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Speaker 3: Of you parents experience this. If and when you got

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Speaker 3: to go to camp.

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Speaker 1: We got to go to camp at four AH Camp,

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Speaker 1: and I remember my parents trying to get together the

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Speaker 1: money to go to four H Camp. It was thirty

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Speaker 1: seven dollars for each child to go to four ahe

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Speaker 1: camp and we got to go. But it was a

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Speaker 1: wonderful fun experience the only time each year that I

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Speaker 1: would be away from home overnight.

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Speaker 3: What you were hearing happened, This happened. There's no doubt

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 1: A little boy is dead tonight after just twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours at this camp. It's not just at Trails, Carolina

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Speaker 1: that this is happening. As a matter of fact, take

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Speaker 1: a listen to a victim that managed to survive the

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Speaker 1: Provo Canyon school.

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Speaker 13: The first thing that they said to me was you're

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Speaker 13: going to need to be strip searched, and so they

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Speaker 13: took me to this room filled with cyber or six

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Speaker 13: stass in there. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I had to remove all my clothes.

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Speaker 13: They had to thoroughly.

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Speaker 2: Examine my body.

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Speaker 13: They asked me to sorry to do very strange things

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Speaker 13: while I was naked. They asked me to bend over,

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Speaker 13: touch my toes. I had to spread everything apart. I

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Speaker 13: was told to squat into cough and they had me

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Speaker 13: do that repeatedly for a few minutes while all the

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Speaker 13: staff members last and made jokes.

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Speaker 2: Parents send a twelve year old boy for treatment at

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Speaker 2: a wilderness therapy camp. He never comes home dying just

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Speaker 2: twenty four hours later.

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Speaker 1: Found dead twenty four hours after going to Trails Carolina Camp,

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Speaker 1: a therapeutic wellness camp for children and teens. Did his

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Speaker 1: parents have any idea what really went on at that

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Speaker 1: camp before they sent him. I've heard many, many true

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Speaker 1: life traumatic stories about how children are basically kidnapped. The

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Speaker 1: parents know what's happening, but the child doesn't know it's

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Speaker 1: about to go to a camp, and they are just

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Speaker 1: taken away and they end up at a camp, a

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Speaker 1: wellness camp or a boot camp for children and teens.

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Speaker 1: Joining me, Meg Applegate, co founder, CEO Unsilenced, victim of

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Speaker 1: trouble Teen Industry, author of Becoming Unsilenced, Surviving and Finding

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Speaker 1: the trouble teen Industry, and you can find her at

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Speaker 1: Unsilenced dot org.

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Speaker 3: Meg, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: A death as if a strip search and malnourishment, beatings, hazings,

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Speaker 1: adult diapers as if that's not enough, now, Meg, A

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Speaker 1: death of a twelve year old boy at camp right,

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Speaker 1: and it's.

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Speaker 14: Very, very sad, and unfortunately we're not all that surprised.

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Speaker 1: We understand that this little boy was not delivered to

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Speaker 1: the camp by his parents. That two strangers took kem.

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Speaker 3: How does that work?

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Speaker 15: Yeah, so we call that an escort service, or a

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Speaker 15: lot of people call that booning. It's basically when you're

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Speaker 15: woken up, usually in the middle of the night, you're

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Speaker 15: told that you're coming with them.

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Speaker 14: A lot of times you're.

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Speaker 15: Asked to you undressed in front of them as to

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Speaker 15: go to the bathroom in front of them, and then

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Speaker 15: you're escorted from your home to wherever you're going to

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Speaker 15: be gone.

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Speaker 3: Now, what did you say?

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Speaker 1: The phrase to describe it is maybe people call it boning,

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Speaker 1: gooning g as in gregarious in gooning.

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Speaker 3: Correct, that's correct. Gooning.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that evokes nothing but a semblance of fear of

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Speaker 1: terror to get gooned.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what do you mean gooned?

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Speaker 14: I mean, it's pretty much how it feels myself.

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Speaker 15: I was gooned as well, and it's so incredibly traumatic

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Speaker 15: that it sticks with you for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 14: It's truly like you're being kidnapped.

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Speaker 3: What happened to you? Exactly?

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Speaker 14: So I was woking up around two am by these

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Speaker 14: two strangers.

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Speaker 15: They said, you're coming with us, and we can do

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Speaker 15: this the easy way or the hard way, and they

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Speaker 15: indicated that the hard way was going to be in handcuffs.

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Speaker 14: So I listened, and they basically made me undress in

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Speaker 14: front of them.

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Speaker 15: Go to the bathroom, threw me into the back of

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Speaker 15: an suv, and we were off to Lax and off

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Speaker 15: to my first program.

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Speaker 1: To Nick Oxtar joining US chief investigative reporter WBTV, he

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Speaker 1: has been investigating Trails, Carolina says twenty twenty one, and

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Speaker 1: there's no reason for that, this guy, Nick, Nick Oxtar

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Speaker 1: doesn't just get up your tail pipe for no reason.

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Speaker 3: Nick, again, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: How do the children, the teens get to trails, Carolina?

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Speaker 1: Because I noticed immediately this little boy and we are

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Speaker 1: withholding his name, the little boy that ends up dead

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Speaker 1: without his pants on in the middle of the night.

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Speaker 1: He did not get escorted there by his parents. They

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Speaker 1: didn't take him to camp and drop him off like

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Speaker 1: in What is It? The Parent Trap? Remember that Lindsay

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Speaker 1: Lohan is taken.

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Speaker 3: By the butler. I think it is, and by the

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Speaker 3: dad and it's wonderful. It's not like that. What is gooning?

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Speaker 3: Are you familiar with that?

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Speaker 7: Nick?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Just about every former participant in Trails Carolina that I've

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Speaker 4: spoken with, and I've talked to more than a half

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Speaker 4: dozen of them. Just about everybody was gooned or transported

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Speaker 4: to the camp. And I'll tell you the very few

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Speaker 4: that I've talked to who weren't had a slightly less

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Speaker 4: traumatic start to their camping experience. But it's exactly as

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Speaker 4: I've heard it. Luckily I never had to experience this,

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Speaker 4: but as I understand, it's exactly like what we just

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Speaker 4: heard of may describe. These strangers come to your house.

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Speaker 4: You're woken up in the middle of the night and

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Speaker 4: taken whisked away unexpectedly by these strangers, you know, far away.

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Speaker 4: Think about this boy came from New York City.

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Speaker 10: To the wilderness of North Carolina.

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Speaker 4: I've been out to the site of the Trails Carolina

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Speaker 4: camp and let me tell you it's nothing like New

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Speaker 4: York City.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark joining me, renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert

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Speaker 1: consultant and you can find her at Karenstark dot com.

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Speaker 3: And that's Karen with a C in case you're looking

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Speaker 3: for her.

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark, you need to write the book on panic attacks,

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Speaker 1: because you've done.

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Speaker 3: So many case studies on that.

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Speaker 1: But this little boy gets gooned, as Meg Applegate is

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Speaker 1: describing it, and Karen, I spoke to you about this

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Speaker 1: when it occurred. Friends of our children got gooned and

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Speaker 1: we're taken to a camp across the country and the

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Speaker 1: girl got to take one pair of underwear and one toothbrush.

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Speaker 3: She had no idea that was going to happen.

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Speaker 12: And just.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Karen, that right there, this little twelve year

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Speaker 1: old boy was having panic attacks. I guess he was

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Speaker 1: at twelve years old. It's just a baby, for Pete's sake.

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Speaker 1: What is a panic attack? And I'm getting to something probative,

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Speaker 1: Karen Stark. I ask you all of these psychological questions

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Speaker 1: because I want to prove something. I want to prove

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Speaker 1: something that I can take in front of a jury.

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Speaker 1: This boy, by all accounts, was having panic attacks. Okay,

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Speaker 1: he should have been watched even more closely that night,

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Speaker 1: but instead he ends up dead.

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Speaker 3: So what is a panic attack and what would the

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Speaker 3: symptoms be? Karen Stark.

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Speaker 16: When you have a panic attack, Nancy, you are feeling

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Speaker 16: like you're having a heart attack. And many of my

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Speaker 16: patients describe that because your heart is racing. Your breathing

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Speaker 16: isn't regular. It's very, very frightening, and people don't understand

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Speaker 16: that it's something that will pass, that your body is

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Speaker 16: reacting to trauma. And when you think about and you've

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Speaker 16: made some good points, this little boy, he's being taken off.

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Speaker 16: All of these children they're taken away. They are not

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Speaker 16: able to know ahead of time, and the parents believe

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Speaker 16: this is a good thing. They're told that, so they

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Speaker 16: don't even know what is happening to them. They're humiliated,

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Speaker 16: they're frightened. And you take a child like this, who

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Speaker 16: already has anxiety and panic attacks, and put him in

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Speaker 16: a situation that is overwhelming where he has absolutely no

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Speaker 16: idea what's happening. And it's not the way that you're

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Speaker 16: supposed to be helping somebody. You're supposed to be helping

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Speaker 16: a child. That's why they're going there. This is a

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Speaker 16: cant that's supposed to be providing good services, and instead

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Speaker 16: they scare them.

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Speaker 3: And that is the worst tactic you could use. Karen Stark.

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Speaker 3: On many occasions, these counselors did nothing, Nancy.

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Speaker 16: They can't do anything. They don't have the right training.

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Speaker 16: They really don't understand what they're doing. And that's one

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Speaker 16: of the problems. These camps are unregulated. They can hire anyone,

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Speaker 16: and they are not equipped to deal with real mental

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Speaker 16: health issues or anything that is out of the ordinary.

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Speaker 16: All they're taughtest punishment, nothing that has to do with

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Speaker 16: good therapeutic health.

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Speaker 2: Survivors fighting trauma from therapy camps speak out after a

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Speaker 2: twelve year old boy dies.

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Speaker 1: How can a twelve year old boy who had been

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Speaker 1: suffering panic attacks after being taken to Trails Carolina therapeutic camp,

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Speaker 1: How can you end up dead in the last hours

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Speaker 1: we learn the medical examiner has ruled it a homicide

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Speaker 1: by a sphyxy.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like the camp.

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Speaker 1: Canselers just stood by while the little boy was having

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Speaker 1: a panic attack. So what do we know about Trails Carolina?

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Speaker 1: And let me remind you this is not just happening

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Speaker 1: at Trails Carolina as a matter of fact, listen to this.

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Speaker 17: Constantly reported that he was left in a room for

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Speaker 17: days with basically they just would leave them, feed them,

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Speaker 17: let them out, made him pee in a jug, tackled

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Speaker 17: by staff constantly, which was always denied. I asked them

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Speaker 17: to view cameras every time it happened it was somewhere

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Speaker 17: where there was in the cameras. He got into a

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Speaker 17: little bit of trouble when he got a nothing major,

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Speaker 17: but a week later he took his life. I think

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Speaker 17: he thought he was going to end up back there.

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Speaker 1: That dad is talking about Proso Canyon, where children and

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Speaker 1: teens were gooned, forced to go there, and when things

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Speaker 1: went sideways, they were not allowed to contact their parents.

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Speaker 1: When they did call home, they were monitored as to

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Speaker 1: what they were saying. For us to being a form

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Speaker 1: of solitary confinement, only given sporadic meals and forced to

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Speaker 1: urinate in a jug. So the boy comes back home

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00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 1: after a stint at Provo and gets into minor trouble.

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Speaker 1: He was not threatened with being sent back to Provo,

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Speaker 1: but he was afraid he was going back and committed suicide.

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Speaker 1: That was the father of Trevor Hooker speaking out. And

443
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,880
Speaker 1: it's not just these two camps. It's happening industrywide across

444
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 1: our country. Meg Applegate and joining us CEO of Unsilenced,

445
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: who endured similar conditions herself and is now fighting to

446
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: change it. I don't think parents understand what's happening. I

447
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: mean parents send their children to camp, just like I

448
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 1: was sent to four eight with no idea what's gonna happen,

449
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: what the child gets there?

450
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 14: Meg, It's true, It's true.

451
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 15: And I don't think parents understand or the general public

452
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 15: in general, that we're talking about one hundred and twenty

453
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 15: to two hundred thousand kids a year are ending up

454
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 15: in these kind of programs.

455
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: What more do we know about what happened to the

456
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 1: night this twelve year old child dies After the.

457
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 11: Twelve year old has a panic attack around midnight. A

458
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 11: councilor told investigators that the boy was checked on throughout

459
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,879
Speaker 11: the night, starting at twelve am, with additional checks on

460
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 11: his well being at three am and six am. At

461
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 11: seven forty five am, the boy is found dead. According

462
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 11: to the search warrant, when investigators arrived on scene, CJH.

463
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 3: Was stiff and cold to the touch.

464
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 11: He was lying on his back, his arms were on

465
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 11: his chest, and his knees bent upward towards the sky.

466
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 11: Also in the search warrant, investigators noted spots of bleeding

467
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 11: under the skin, possible patikia in the boy's lips and eyes.

468
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 11: Thepr mask was covering the boy's face and he was

469
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 11: not wearing pants or underwear. His pants and underwear were

470
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 11: lying next to his shoulder.

471
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: To doctor eric Asen, a Board certify Forensic Pathologists and consultant,

472
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: doctor Ason.

473
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 3: Thank you for being with us.

474
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: You've just heard the description given as to how the

475
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: twelve year old boy was found dead.

476
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: What do you make of it?

477
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: Particularly the partikia the burst blood vessels.

478
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 8: Well, patikii are typically found in individuals who can die

479
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 8: from asphyxia.

480
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 7: That's usually asphyxia.

481
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 8: From like a hanging or a strangulation, when there's some

482
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 8: type of pressure on the neck and it causes a

483
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 8: pressure build up of a blood and the blood bustles

484
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 8: in the eye and then they will rupture and cause

485
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 8: these small dots known as patikii. So you typically see

486
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 8: them in asphyxia, but there's other causes of petikii. So

487
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 8: you don't just want to say, hey, if you see PETIKIAI,

488
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 8: this is definitely an asphyxial death. They can happen from CPR,

489
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 8: they can actually happen from a heart attack.

490
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 7: You can actually sneeze really hard and cause patikia in

491
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 7: your face.

492
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 3: Hold on just a moment.

493
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: I'm hearing a subtle but important distinction doctor eric Ason.

494
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: When they particularizes the very tiny blood vessels in your eyes,

495
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: I guess your lips and elsewhere, possibly your your nasal passages.

496
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 3: When they burst.

497
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: If you simply run out of air, will they burst

498
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: or does there need to be some sort of pressure

499
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: such as a pillow over the face, some sort of

500
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: mechanical pressure. When I say mechanical, I mean hands ligatory

501
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: pillow put.

502
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 7: Right, and there needs to be pressure.

503
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 3: Would they burst simply from running out of air?

504
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 7: No, that's not the typical explanation for I form.

505
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 8: They're gonna They's gonna be some some type of physical

506
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 8: trauma to a blood vessel to cause that to happen,

507
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 8: and that.

508
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 3: Is the crux here or Esen, go with me on this.

509
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: I'm trying to explain this in regular people talk, but

510
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: I think you'll understand what I'm trying to say. This boy,

511
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: if his patikia were burst in his lips, did not

512
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: die of just running out of air in his sleeping bag.

513
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: First of all, the sleeping bag a bivy. Everybody that

514
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 1: camps knows not to do what they did. The boy

515
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: was sleeping a sleeping bag in a bivy which comes

516
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 1: up around you kind of like a canoe and there

517
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: was a covering over it. Very often used. My son's

518
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: got one and he will camp out just out in

519
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. It looks like a sleeping mag

520
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: with a top over it to keep mosquitoes out. He

521
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: had this child had the outer weather proof covering over him,

522
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: which you're not supposed to do because it can seal.

523
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 3: Out the air.

524
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: Unlike the mesh one, it's breatheable. But uh huh No,

525
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: if there were burst partikia and his lips, then.

526
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 3: There had to be some type of mechanical force on him.

527
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 3: Am I making any sense?

528
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 7: It makes sense to me?

529
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: Yes, what do you think?

530
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 7: Yeah? I agree.

531
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 8: I think there had to be some type of pressure

532
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 8: on the neck or on the blood belts of the

533
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 8: face to cause the petikii if they were definitely found

534
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 8: an autopsy, and I don't recall if they were.

535
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, we just heard the reporter state that

536
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: there was damage to the patikia at the.

537
00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 3: Time Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

538
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: Nick Oxner joining me from WBTV way in because the

539
00:32:54,600 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 1: medical examiner there at Wake Forest Baptist Medical has ruled

540
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 1: this a homicide. And I also noticed that in the

541
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 1: autopsy there was bruising on the thighs, and there was bruising,

542
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,080
Speaker 1: I believe on page four as I was analyzing it,

543
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: another bruise on the hip, the hip and the thigh.

544
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 1: That's disturbing. Why does this frail, pale little boy have bruising.

545
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: He had no health complaints prior to this. He didn't hyperventilate,

546
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: he had never had respiratory problems, Nick, nothing like that.

547
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: So his hyoid was intact, which rules out, well, not

548
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: necessarily a strangulation. But I'm concerned that I'm hearing there

549
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: was particular damage.

550
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 3: What do you make of it?

551
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, What I think is interesting is that the autopsy

552
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 4: notes the bruising, like you said, but then also says

553
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 4: there is no signs of real trauma. It also says

554
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 4: that investigators did a sexual assault examination kit post mortem, obviously, and.

555
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 10: That was negative.

556
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: Nick, my dear sweet boy, my naive investigatiory border. You

557
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 1: think just because there's no tearing, bruising or blood and

558
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,959
Speaker 1: his anus, that there's not a sex assault. Just talking

559
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 1: about what's in the papers, Nancy, True, You're right, You're

560
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 1: right again, And as you know, I.

561
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 10: Think it's instructive and as you're doing as well. I

562
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 10: sit down, I.

563
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 4: Read the autopsy report, and I read what's in there

564
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:37,279
Speaker 4: and what's not in there, and I look at what

565
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 4: is written versus what else we know or other questions

566
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 4: we have. But I think it's helpful to follow along

567
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 4: what's in this autopsy, just like you're doing right now,

568
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 4: and continue to raise questions.

569
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 18: The twelve year old is not the first youth that

570
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 18: the camp has dealt with. Alec was able to walk

571
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 18: away from the camp in November of twenty fourteen, only

572
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 18: to be found in a stream dead. Investigators believe he

573
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 18: fell while climbing a tree, breaking his hip as he

574
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 18: landed in the stream below. Unable to move, the teen

575
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 18: died from hypothermia.

576
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 9: Before the death of the twelve year old, Trails Carolina

577
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 9: has been dealing with other issues in court. Most recently,

578
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 9: a federal lawsuit was filed on February nine by a

579
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 9: former camper who says when she was twelve, she told

580
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 9: staffers that another child was sexually assaulting fellow campers. According

581
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 9: to the lawsuit, counselors at Trails Carolina did nothing to

582
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 9: stop the alleged assaults. The former camper is now twenty

583
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 9: years old, and tells the Charlotte Observer the most upsetting

584
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 9: part for her is the trauma she experienced was preventable.

585
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 9: Her suit follows a similar suit filed last year in

586
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 9: federal court claiming a former camper alleges that camp counselors

587
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 9: didn't do enough to prevent an older camper from sexually

588
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 9: assaulting her in twenty nineteen, even though she asked for

589
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 9: help multiple times.

590
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 2: An investigation underway after a shocking autopsy rules a twelve

591
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: year old boys cause of death a homicide at a

592
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 2: wilderness therapy camp.

593
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 13: This is what I know.

594
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: The sheriffs who went to the scene and see the

595
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: body stated there was bleeding under the skin of the

596
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: boy's lips and eyes, possible PARTICKI. And it's totally not

597
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: even really mentioned in the autopsy report. Why that doesn't

598
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 1: sound like he just ran out of air in his buvy.

599
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 1: Also that night, Nick Oxter, we hear that the counselors

600
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,240
Speaker 1: kept coming to his buvy because he was thrashing about

601
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: but they didn't do anything.

602
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

603
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 4: In fact, one of the counselors in that room told

604
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 4: state investigators with the Department of Health and Human Services that.

605
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 10: He felt like he failed the boy or could have

606
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,480
Speaker 10: done more to prevent his death.

607
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 4: It is pretty clear now from what we know from

608
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 4: investigators that those counselors at one point, we're all asleep

609
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,400
Speaker 4: inside that cabin, and that the boy was found, if

610
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 4: you read the autopsy, was down one hundred and eighty

611
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 4: degrees turned from from inside the bivy sack where he

612
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 4: was zipped inside. That's all that we've been able to

613
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 4: glean from these public reports so far.

614
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: In other words, he was upside down. For instance, if

615
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: you were on a bed, your feet would be on

616
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: the pillow and your head would be at the baseboard.

617
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 3: That's not right.

618
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,040
Speaker 1: And we know the boy was thrashing around more than

619
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 1: once in the night and they did nothing. I mean,

620
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced he died from just running out of air.

621
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 1: With the PARTICULARI The sheriff noted that said, back to

622
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 1: Lianne Roberts, who attended Trails Carolina age twelve.

623
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 3: What was it like being there? Leanne?

624
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 12: And it was like very traumatic to say the least.

625
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,800
Speaker 12: It's you know, I carry still to this day a

626
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 12: lot of the memories and the trauma that I'm working through.

627
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:11,720
Speaker 12: It was a very emotionally hostile environment. You're being monitored

628
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,479
Speaker 12: twenty four to seven, and so it doesn't really feel

629
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 12: like there's room to breathe, room to do something wrong,

630
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 12: room to have feelings. Emotional outbursts or even crying. Were

631
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 12: really kind of punished, heavily punished, and I mean the

632
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,120
Speaker 12: punishments were cruel. When you don't have anything left to

633
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 12: take away, they have to get kind of creative. And

634
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 12: so every day you could earn, you know, time to

635
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 12: talk if you did something within the timeframe that they

636
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 12: allotted you, or you could earn what was called a

637
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 12: negative consequence. And so everything you did, every breath you

638
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 12: took had some sort of you know, negative or positive consequence.

639
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,800
Speaker 12: There wasn't any time to just like breathe freely. And

640
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 12: the negative consequence, as we're, pretty disturbing to say the least.

641
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 12: There was one that sticks out to me in particular always,

642
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 12: which is what staff would call pea party. And pea

643
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 12: party is as disgusting and disturbing as it may sound.

644
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 12: It meant that if somebody had to use the restroom

645
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 12: in the middle of the night, you know, you have

646
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 12: to wake up a staff to say that. You know,

647
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 12: you have to go to the restroom because you have

648
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 12: to be monitored, you have to be listened to and watched.

649
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 12: And if you woke up a staff in the middle

650
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 12: of the night, doesn't matter the hour to use the restroom.

651
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 12: They woke everybody up and everyone had to stand around

652
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 12: until said person was finished using the restroom, kind of

653
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 12: as like a you know, it was more so a

654
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 12: reward to the staff that they wouldn't have to wake

655
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 12: up in the middle of the night to facilitate a

656
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 12: bathroom break, because it was like such a shame filled

657
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 12: negative consequence and that was, you know, kind of the

658
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 12: theme of my whole say, there was a lot of shame.

659
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 3: Guys.

660
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: You're hearing Lean Raw speak out and Meg Applegate as well,

661
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: Nick Oxner, who has been investigating this particular camp for

662
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: now three years. This is so pervasive in the camping industry.

663
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: One victim a name you'll know, Paris Hilton.

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Speaker 3: Listen.

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00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 19: A seventeen year old Paris Hilton is sent by her

666
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,880
Speaker 19: family to the Provo Canyon School in Utah. In a

667
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 19: documentary This Is Paris, she describes the place as a

668
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 19: prison camp with solitary confinement and physical abuse. She details

669
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 19: being forced to submit to a pelvic exam, then being

670
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 19: forced to wear a pair of faded sweats labeled with

671
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 19: the number one twenty seven. That number became her identity

672
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 19: and her name. Hilton says the staff would choke and

673
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 19: beat campers. Speaking before lawmakers, Hilton described how children were restrained, hit,

674
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 19: thrown into walls, strangled, and sexually abused regularly.

675
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: At Provo, A twelve year old boy dead at summer

676
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: camp after just twenty four hours?

677
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 3: What happened?

678
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 1: Joining me Leanne Roberts, who attended the same camp age twelve,

679
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: and Meg Applegate, author of Becoming Unsilenced, Surviving and Fighting

680
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 1: the troubled teen industry. Meg Applegate, You've been listening to

681
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: the facts presented in this case along with Karen Stark's psychologist,

682
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that you have an opinion on what

683
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: has happened to this twelve year old boy?

684
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 3: And what do you make of Leanne Roberts description.

685
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 15: I've likely talked to over one hundred survivors from Trails, Carolina,

686
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,160
Speaker 15: and you take Lianne's experience and you copy and paste

687
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 15: it to all the others, and it doesn't matter what

688
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,959
Speaker 15: year they went. They're really experiencing all the same things.

689
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 3: What sort of things are you describing, Meg.

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00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 15: Everything that you've heard as far as being denied bathroom breaks,

691
00:41:54,800 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 15: enough food, honestly adequate water and clean for that, I've

692
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 15: talked to many survivors who have gotten parasites and giardia

693
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 15: and all of these things from not or being not

694
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 15: allowed to have clean water sources or having broken filters.

695
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 15: It's absolutely horrendous, Leanne.

696
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: Were you ever given a chance to tell your parents

697
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: what was happening to come get you out of there?

698
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 12: Yeah, my first or second day, I wrote a letter

699
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 12: to my dad and I have those letters now in verbatim.

700
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 12: I say, this is traumatizing. I'm not safe here, these

701
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 12: kids are not well. And when that letter was sent out,

702
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 12: I think it is pretty protocol for my therapists at

703
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 12: the time, or just their program in general. They prep

704
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 12: parents for that. So they literally had told my dad's

705
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 12: word for word what I was going to say and

706
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 12: that I was a liar before they had sent that letter,

707
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 12: and so it was a weird. It reinstalled his trust

708
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 12: in the program because he thought, if they're able to

709
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 12: predict these patterns and behaviors and literally what my daughter

710
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,839
Speaker 12: is going to do, then they must know what they're

711
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 12: talking about, when really he was being lied to and

712
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 12: deceived and becoming a victim of this industry as well.

713
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: The warning is out parents, this is camping season.

714
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: You have the chance to protect your children from camps,

715
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: just like Trails Carolina.

716
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 3: Nick Auxtar, what's going to happen to Trails Carolina.

717
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 4: Well, their license has been revoked by the North Carolina

718
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 4: Department of Health and Human Services.

719
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 10: So effectively it shut down.

720
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 4: They have an opportunity to appeal that so that could

721
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 4: be reversed, but it's basically been shut down most of

722
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 4: this year since this boy died, and it looks like

723
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 4: it will continue to remain closed.

724
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:53,440
Speaker 1: It's amazing, Meg Applegate, that it took another death at

725
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: another camp before the camp was reprimanded, after all of

726
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 1: the complaints that have been lodged, all the children that

727
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 1: have suffered there, this boy had to die.

728
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 14: I know, and honestly, that's a lot of time.

729
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 15: What it takes, unfortunately, is a child dying in one

730
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,920
Speaker 15: of these facilities for people to finally pay attention. And

731
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 15: in this case, so we have Alec Lansing who died

732
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 15: many years before that at Trails Carolina and still it

733
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 15: took this amount of time.

734
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guests for being with us and

735
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: speaking out, but especially to you for joining us here

736
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:27,800
Speaker 1: on crime Stories.

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00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 3: Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,