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Speaker 4: Hey everyone, it's Captain Ron and each week are and
Speaker 4: Beyond Contact. We'll explore the latest news in ufology, discuss
Speaker 4: some of the classic cases, and bring you the latest
Speaker 4: information from the newest cases as we talk with the
Speaker 4: top experts.
Speaker 5: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Contact. I am Captain Ron,
Speaker 5: and today I'm speaking with Kelly Chase. Kelly is a
Speaker 5: branding and marketing expert and also the host and creator
Speaker 5: of the very successful UFO rabbit Hole podcast, and deservingly so.
Speaker 5: Kelly has been in this field in earnest for only
Speaker 5: about three to four years, and over that very short
Speaker 5: span she has amassed an incredible breadth and depth of
Speaker 5: knowledge in this area through reading an immense amount of material.
Speaker 5: She has further ramped up her knowledge on the subject
Speaker 5: through doing podcasts and interacting with experiencers. It's always enlightening
Speaker 5: speaking with her, and I feel like she's a very refreshing, grounded,
Speaker 5: rational approach to this topic. Hi, Kelly, how you doing today?
Speaker 1: Oh? Hey, Ron, it's so great to be here. I'm
Speaker 1: doing great. How are you?
Speaker 5: I am terrific and I'm really looking forward to this.
Speaker 5: We're just going to have a fun, casual conversation today,
Speaker 5: and it's going to be a lot of fun because
Speaker 5: I know you have a lot of insight on this
Speaker 5: topic here beyond contact, I tend to just jump in
Speaker 5: off the high board and get right into the heart
Speaker 5: of the matter. So let's do that. You have looked
Speaker 5: at this phenomenon pretty deeply over the last few years.
Speaker 5: You've read a ton of material, You've interviewed experts, spoken
Speaker 5: to people who claimed to have direct first hand witness
Speaker 5: to either a UFO sighting or even direct contact with
Speaker 5: what we'll call for now aliens. After all of that,
Speaker 5: and I know this is just wild speculation, but what
Speaker 5: do you think is happening out there? Do you think
Speaker 5: that US Earthlings are in fact having contact with some
Speaker 5: form of non human intelligence? And if so, where might
Speaker 5: they be coming from? Are they from another galaxy? Are
Speaker 5: they from another dimension? Are they extra tempestrial beings from
Speaker 5: the future? Do they live on Earth somewhere parallel to us?
Speaker 5: All of the above? What's the answer?
Speaker 1: Starting with an easy one, right? But this is the question, right,
Speaker 1: And I think that's what has gotten me so obsessed
Speaker 1: from the very beginning. And I will say my answer
Speaker 1: to this changes and evolves all the time, just based
Speaker 1: on new information. But I think that really what we're
Speaker 1: dealing with here is likely something that is something that
Speaker 1: we've been dealing with throughout the history of humanity in
Speaker 1: one form or another. It seems as though we are
Speaker 1: sharing our planet in one sense or another with probably
Speaker 1: multiple non human intelligences that we just have sort of
Speaker 1: failed to recognize, or at least failed to recognize within
Speaker 1: our current paradigm. Something that I think is really interesting
Speaker 1: about this whole thing is that I think that the
Speaker 1: Earth probably has a much more complex ecology than we
Speaker 1: recognize currently. You know, when you think about the Earth
Speaker 1: and what we have here, like we really do have
Speaker 1: a gem and if you go, you know, hundreds of
Speaker 1: millions of light years in just about any direction, you're
Speaker 1: not going to find anything like it. This just abundance
Speaker 1: and proliferation of life that just kind of springs up
Speaker 1: from every surface and in every corner. We've even found it,
Speaker 1: like miles underground and at the bottom of Mariana Trench.
Speaker 1: It seems like this entire planet is just this ball
Speaker 1: of life. And it seems as though it could be
Speaker 1: that there's more here than we thought that there was,
Speaker 1: and that it's very likely that our planet is this
Speaker 1: kind of beacon around which life congregates. And I think
Speaker 1: that the that we're only just now kind of waking
Speaker 1: up to the sheer, vastness and complexity of what that
Speaker 1: life actually looks like, and that there's probably things that
Speaker 1: are here that maybe we just haven't we haven't evolved
Speaker 1: to deal with in terms of our senses and our understanding,
Speaker 1: and that we're beginning to become more aware of that now,
Speaker 1: and so I think we're probably dealing with a lot
Speaker 1: of different things and that what we're coming up against
Speaker 1: is really a paradigm shift where we recognize a new
Speaker 1: kind of life, a new way that life can exist.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, I guess, well, yeah, I mean, listen, these are
Speaker 5: all everything we say at speculation because we're dealing with
Speaker 5: an unknown topic. But it is interesting to think about.
Speaker 5: It's always your perspective as well, and your technology as well.
Speaker 5: For example, I don't have the exact dates on this,
Speaker 5: but let's say two hundred years ago, we didn't know
Speaker 5: there were microbial beings walking around on our body.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 5: Now we have the ability to zoom in and see them,
Speaker 5: and we can see what's unfortunately crawling around in our bed,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. We didn't know that before.
Speaker 5: It was only when we got the technology to see
Speaker 5: there could we in fact learn what's there. Just like
Speaker 5: you were saying about the Marianna Trench, before we were
Speaker 5: able to go down that low, we didn't know that
Speaker 5: this existed, and yet it was just right there down
Speaker 5: the street and we didn't know it was there. So
Speaker 5: that I always feel like, could be what's going on
Speaker 5: with this now on human intelligence, I always like to
Speaker 5: bring up the what they call the jungle theory. You know,
Speaker 5: when you're walking through the jungle to scientists and they
Speaker 5: see an ant hill and they pick up one and
Speaker 5: they put a number on its back and they put
Speaker 5: it back. You know, the answer completely unaware that us
Speaker 5: humans are there, and yet we are and we're interacting
Speaker 5: with them. So it might be something like that that
Speaker 5: we just don't have the technology or wisdom to know.
Speaker 4: Yet.
Speaker 5: What do you feel is the strongest piece of evidence
Speaker 5: for this being a real phenomenon.
Speaker 1: I know that this is an answer that a lot
Speaker 1: of people aren't going to love because I think that
Speaker 1: you know where we are, which I understand. We're looking
Speaker 1: for hard data right because we want to be able
Speaker 1: to prove this. We want to be able to say
Speaker 1: scientifically conclusively that this thing is real. But I think
Speaker 1: that where we are right now, honestly, what the best
Speaker 1: piece of evidence is is anecdotal. And I think that
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, like anecdotes have become this
Speaker 1: dirty word where it's like, well, it's just anecdotal, so
Speaker 1: you can't prove it, so it means nothing except that
Speaker 1: like there are a lot of different kinds of science,
Speaker 1: like we're trying. I don't think that we should expect
Speaker 1: to hold every single field to the same standard of
Speaker 1: science that we hold, say like physics, where we have
Speaker 1: this like very very hard science that's like very provable
Speaker 1: and very like very easy to calculate and you know,
Speaker 1: comes down to like mathematical equations, because that's just not
Speaker 1: how everything works. There's other kinds of science. There's psychology
Speaker 1: and anthropology, and these are the kinds of science that
Speaker 1: we use when we're trying to deal with things that
Speaker 1: can't be broken down into an equation like species and
Speaker 1: humans and cultures and that sort of thing. We can
Speaker 1: study those things, still not in as precise and replicable
Speaker 1: of a way as we can study, say the laws
Speaker 1: of physics, but that doesn't mean that there's nothing that
Speaker 1: we can know about them. And the way that we
Speaker 1: go about that in these other kind of softer science
Speaker 1: fields is that we collect, you know, all of this
Speaker 1: anecdotal data together. And it's not that you accept every
Speaker 1: single anecdote or every single piece of data as being
Speaker 1: like absolute and you don't question it. What you do,
Speaker 1: if you're responsible, is you take all of the anecdotes,
Speaker 1: and you take all of this data and you put
Speaker 1: it together and you look for patterns that emerge, and
Speaker 1: then you try to understand what it is that you're
Speaker 1: dealing with from that. And I think that that's completely valid,
Speaker 1: and I think that something really dangerous is happening in
Speaker 1: our culture where we feel like we can't rely on
Speaker 1: what other human beings are telling us about their experience,
Speaker 1: about what they know. That doesn't mean that people don't lie.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that there's not people aren't mistaken, or
Speaker 1: that they aren't frauds. But we're to the point where
Speaker 1: we don't even trust our own experience when these things happen,
Speaker 1: because we've decided it can't be it can't be real.
Speaker 1: And so but I think the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: if you go back hundreds of years, thousands of years,
Speaker 1: we have accounts that very much look like the UFO phenomenon,
Speaker 1: or you know, interactions with some kind of a non
Speaker 1: human intelligence that follow the same shape and pattern and
Speaker 1: kind of like structure of these encounters that people are
Speaker 1: having now tells us that there's something there. We don't
Speaker 1: know what it is. We have to figure that out still,
Speaker 1: But that to me, is probably the most compelling piece
Speaker 1: of evidence.
Speaker 5: I agree. I don't know why we suddenly discount eyewitness testimony.
Speaker 5: We have a lot of people that have made these claims.
Speaker 5: Why all of a sudden are these people not credible?
Speaker 5: And I don't think that that's fair. And we have
Speaker 5: a huge number of them. We don't need all of
Speaker 5: them to be credible, we just need one. So keeping
Speaker 5: that in mind, it makes me feel that there is
Speaker 5: some substantial evidence for this. And there's other cases like
Speaker 5: when you were saying that, I was thinking that, you know,
Speaker 5: when they caught these priests doing things to choir boys
Speaker 5: and whatever at the church, what kind of evidence did
Speaker 5: they have for that other than anecdotal witnesses or these
Speaker 5: guys claiming this. There's no video, there's no proof, there's
Speaker 5: no anything. But that was enough to catch all these guys.
Speaker 5: So we need to a little more fair in this
Speaker 5: realm as well. You're listening to Beyond Contact on the
Speaker 5: iHeartRadio on Coast to Coast AM Paranormal podcast network. We
Speaker 5: are back on Beyond Contact. We're talking with Kelly Chase,
Speaker 5: and Kelly, I wanted to ask you, is there a
Speaker 5: case or two that really pushed you over the edge,
Speaker 5: that made you go, you know what, this is really
Speaker 5: credible to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think early on one of the
Speaker 1: cases that really stuck out to me was the nineteen
Speaker 1: fifty two flap over Washington, DC. Just the fact that
Speaker 1: this is something that was documented in newspapers around the world.
Speaker 1: There's no real way to argue that something didn't happen
Speaker 1: there because it was witnessed over multiple hours of these
Speaker 1: things flying over Washington, d C. There were craft that
Speaker 1: were spotted hovering over our Congress for hours at a time,
Speaker 1: and this was witnessed by literally, you know, thousands, if
Speaker 1: not more people, to the extent that our government had
Speaker 1: to have the biggest press conference that they had had
Speaker 1: since the end of World War Two to go and
Speaker 1: tell people that like, there was nothing to see here.
Speaker 1: But their explanation never made any kind of sense, because
Speaker 1: this was, like I said in one of her multiple
Speaker 1: hours and also over multiple days, they were scrambling fighter
Speaker 1: jets to go and get these things, to try to
Speaker 1: figure out what they were, and to pretend as though
Speaker 1: our entire military was flummixed and just sort of tricked
Speaker 1: by some like weird you know, radar data or something
Speaker 1: that was incorrect, which in no way explains all the
Speaker 1: people who are seeing these things on the ground. You
Speaker 1: can't see, you know, radar artifacts from the ground. I
Speaker 1: think that that in and of itself, you know, shows
Speaker 1: you that there's something really interesting going on there. And
Speaker 1: so that one really early on for me, was one
Speaker 1: that really stuck out to me, cause I think it's
Speaker 1: really hard to say that something significant didn't happen.
Speaker 5: So the weather balloon thing did not land for you,
Speaker 5: is what you're saying. The weather balloons does not seem
Speaker 5: to be strong enough. I agree. So you are a
Speaker 5: non believer in all of this, all of the UFO things.
Speaker 5: You in fact, were an atheist until about three years ago.
Speaker 5: And after all this research, when did you get to
Speaker 5: the point where you believe this type of thing really
Speaker 5: was happening? And then how did that affect your world paradigm?
Speaker 5: And does it change the nature of your whole view
Speaker 5: of reality? How was that?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: That's such a great question, and it's been as I
Speaker 1: suspect it is for a lot of people. It's been complex,
Speaker 1: Like it's really hard to say exactly at what point
Speaker 1: the flip totally like the switch totally flipped for me,
Speaker 1: because I think that there was a point where, like
Speaker 1: I recognized that there was something to the UFO phenomenon
Speaker 1: and got really obsessed. But over time, you know, it
Speaker 1: takes time for your mind to kind of open up
Speaker 1: to these things. And I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: have the experience that when they start, they're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: clearly there's something going on here, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: look into it, but I'm not going to consider abductions
Speaker 1: or I'm not going to consider, you know, telepathic content.
Speaker 1: Everybody draws their line in the sand somewhere else in
Speaker 1: terms of like what they're willing to consider and what
Speaker 1: they're own what they're not willing to consider. And so
Speaker 1: over the last few years, I think that I have
Speaker 1: had that goalpost continually move as based on what I've read,
Speaker 1: based on my own experiences, and also really based on
Speaker 1: getting to know other experiencers and understanding that there are
Speaker 1: extraordinarily intelligent, very highly functioning, completely non crazy people who
Speaker 1: have some stories that sound very very crazy. And so
Speaker 1: I think in a lot of ways, it's been it's
Speaker 1: been a slow process having this kind of a paradigm
Speaker 1: shift in your life. It happens slowly and all at
Speaker 1: once kind of at the same time. It's hard to
Speaker 1: like point to an exact moment to say, like that
Speaker 1: was the moment that I fully recognized that this was real,
Speaker 1: because even after having my own profound experiences, it takes
Speaker 1: a process of integration, right, and to even recognize that
Speaker 1: something happened to yourself. But over time, the way that
Speaker 1: that's really changed my perspective on the world is that
Speaker 1: I think that I've just come to realize that there's
Speaker 1: a lot more to human experience than we're being told,
Speaker 1: and that those parts that we've sort of amputated from
Speaker 1: our human experience and that we don't recognize and that
Speaker 1: we don't recognize as valid are actually some of the
Speaker 1: most important parts of what it means to be a human.
Speaker 1: Because once you start to let those things in and
Speaker 1: you start to consider them, and you start to take
Speaker 1: your own anomaloust experiences seriously, it opens your world up
Speaker 1: and you start to think differently, and you start to
Speaker 1: care more about you know, not just about this subject,
Speaker 1: but about being a good part and what your impact
Speaker 1: is on the world, and like the things that matter
Speaker 1: and like loving your family and these like really basic
Speaker 1: things suddenly become come to the forefront in your life,
Speaker 1: which is a kind of a counterintuitive thing that happens.
Speaker 1: But I know it's not just me. This happens to
Speaker 1: almost everyone I talk to you it gets involved in
Speaker 1: this subject. So it's been a really it's been the
Speaker 1: most incredible experience of my life, to be honest, and
Speaker 1: I'm just so grateful to have been on this journey.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's interesting you mentioned that about it's intelligent people
Speaker 5: that have had these experiences that you've talked with. When
Speaker 5: we hear the experts and the people that the psychiatrists
Speaker 5: and psychologists who've talked to these people, they say, it's
Speaker 5: all walks of life, from big name celebrities to doctors, lawyers,
Speaker 5: the works. It's right across the board. It doesn't discriminate,
Speaker 5: it doesn't discern who's having these experiences, which is fascinating,
Speaker 5: and I wanted to ask you that how have you
Speaker 5: seen how these experiences have tended to affect other people's lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's really fascinating because I think because
Speaker 1: of the nature of my podcast, where it's for people
Speaker 1: who are newer to the topic, that I end up
Speaker 1: hearing from a lot of people who are new to it,
Speaker 1: and then I get to sort of see them on
Speaker 1: their own journey. And you know, I actually just got
Speaker 1: a text message this morning from somebody that I had
Speaker 1: talked two months ago, who, as a result of getting
Speaker 1: into this topic, started asking these bigger questions about, like,
Speaker 1: you know, not just what is the UFO phenomenon, but
Speaker 1: who am I? And why am I here? And what
Speaker 1: is my purpose and ended up making a whole life
Speaker 1: change and now is working for an organization that raises
Speaker 1: money for climate change initiatives. And he texted me today
Speaker 1: just to say like, thank you, and I'm so feeling
Speaker 1: so fulfilled in my new work and all of that,
Speaker 1: which which I don't really even feel like I can
Speaker 1: take credit for. I feel like there's something about the
Speaker 1: phenomenon itself that when you engage with it, it transforms
Speaker 1: your life in a way that is really profound. And
Speaker 1: so I think seeing that process play out, and I've
Speaker 1: seen this process play out probably hundreds of times now
Speaker 1: with people that I've met, and that to me is
Speaker 1: probably the most fulfilling and exciting part of this work
Speaker 1: and why I keep doing it.
Speaker 5: That was a very positive answer. I guess I was
Speaker 5: expecting you to say how oftentimes these sort of experiences
Speaker 5: can also ruin people's lives. I often hear of people
Speaker 5: who have had a let's say, an abduction experience or
Speaker 5: some sort of experience like that, they end up divorced,
Speaker 5: they end up losing their job. It can be very
Speaker 5: difficult for many of these people, right.
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely absolutely, And I think what's so important is
Speaker 1: that these conversations and like the community that we're all
Speaker 1: building together is so important because when people don't have
Speaker 1: when something like this happens and you don't have a community,
Speaker 1: and you don't have any context, and you don't have
Speaker 1: anywhere to take this thing that happened to you, it
Speaker 1: can be extraordinarily destabilizing. It can be extraordinarily isolating. It
Speaker 1: can you know, rip apart families and people lost their jobs,
Speaker 1: people have lost their lives over this. And so you know,
Speaker 1: that's why I think it's so important that we continue
Speaker 1: to have these conversations just talk about it, but that
Speaker 1: wese form communities and we start to also form like
Speaker 1: frameworks for integration, for understanding what might be going on here,
Speaker 1: so that people have a place to talk about it
Speaker 1: in a way to talk about it, because I think
Speaker 1: that when we're able to integrate these things and we're
Speaker 1: not just having to reject them outright or hide them
Speaker 1: or like keep it as our dirty little secret, it
Speaker 1: can have this like really beautifully transformational effect, Whereas when
Speaker 1: we have to bury it, it has this like corrosive effect.
Speaker 1: And so I think that that's why, you know, that's
Speaker 1: why I'm so passionate about this work.
Speaker 5: No doubt. I think that now that things are a
Speaker 5: little bit more opened up than they were, say, thirty
Speaker 5: forty fifty years ago, that there are places for them
Speaker 5: to go, there are places for them to congregate and
Speaker 5: share their stories. I'm sure that gives them a lot
Speaker 5: of satisfaction and comfort, which is wonderful. When we come back,
Speaker 5: we're going to talk to Kelly about how she shifts
Speaker 5: through all of this different misinformation and disinformation to get
Speaker 5: to what's really going on out there. You are listening
Speaker 5: to Beyond Contact on the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast
Speaker 5: AM Paranormal podcast network. We are back on Beyond Contact
Speaker 5: and I'm talking with Kelly Chase right now. Kelly, I
Speaker 5: wanted to ask you that how do you navigate this
Speaker 5: immense amount of material that's out there. There's a lot
Speaker 5: of misinformation, there's a lot of disinformation, there's a lot
Speaker 5: of speculation. How do you navigate all this to get
Speaker 5: to what your version of what you think is happening
Speaker 5: is happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is tough. And I think that kind
Speaker 1: of the first part of navigating this is having a
Speaker 1: really deep humility. And I think that that for me,
Speaker 1: that came about pretty naturally, just because I had such
Speaker 1: a profound shift in my worldview. Like you said, before
Speaker 1: I was in I didn't believe in any of this stuff.
Speaker 1: I didn't believe in anything wo I didn't even believe
Speaker 1: in God. And so to have had my worldview shift
Speaker 1: so profoundly, it kind of gives you this natural humility
Speaker 1: because you realize how that you've been wrong before and
Speaker 1: that you could be wrong again, and that you're only
Speaker 1: ever kind of one data point away from having to
Speaker 1: like scrap it all and start over. And so I
Speaker 1: think that like staying in that place is probably the
Speaker 1: most important part. And it's hard to do because we
Speaker 1: as humans really want to be certain, like we really
Speaker 1: want to feel like we have the right answer, and
Speaker 1: it's hard to kind of stay in that space of
Speaker 1: humility and saying like, I don't actually know, And so
Speaker 1: a lot of what I do is I will I
Speaker 1: will read just about anything on this topic, and I've
Speaker 1: actually will go to the point where I intentionally read
Speaker 1: things that people are like, oh, that since a scam
Speaker 1: artist or that's trash, you shouldn't read that. You know,
Speaker 1: maybe I'll feel that way after I've read it too,
Speaker 1: but I think that like you at least have to
Speaker 1: give it a shot, right, But for the most part,
Speaker 1: I try to take in as much information as I
Speaker 1: can from as many different sources as possible, and to
Speaker 1: try to connect the dots where where I can, and
Speaker 1: to notice patterns where they emerge. But there is always
Speaker 1: sort of this decision tree thing going on in my
Speaker 1: brain where you know, if you don't if I don't
Speaker 1: actually know something is true, which is for most of
Speaker 1: this subject is like most of the things about it,
Speaker 1: you can't really know if it's true or not. You
Speaker 1: kind of have to hold that intention and say like, Okay,
Speaker 1: so if this is true, then these other things are
Speaker 1: also likely true. But if it's not true, then those
Speaker 1: things probably aren't true. In this other set of things,
Speaker 1: is probably true, and so there's this kind of like
Speaker 1: web that's created of like all of these different contingencies,
Speaker 1: and so like, I can't say that I know for
Speaker 1: sure that I'm getting the best information or that my
Speaker 1: ideas are the best ideas. All I can do is
Speaker 1: try to stay like as intellectually honest as possible about
Speaker 1: what I actually know and what is just sort of
Speaker 1: like an idea that sounds right or that I like,
Speaker 1: or that maybe connects these dots in a way that's satisfying,
Speaker 1: but that might not actually be the case. And so
Speaker 1: you know, I think there's very little that I can
Speaker 1: say about the UFO phenomenon that I can say for
Speaker 1: sure is I know to be a fact. And I
Speaker 1: think that you just sort of have to to sit
Speaker 1: in that place and allow yourself to know that you
Speaker 1: don't know, and that allows you to kind of remain
Speaker 1: flexible and skeptical enough in your thinking.
Speaker 5: I think that's really really critically important. It certainly is
Speaker 5: from my view. I feel that the more people say
Speaker 5: that they know what's going on, the less they know
Speaker 5: what's going on, because it's just not it's an unknown
Speaker 5: that's what we're dealing with here. But I do like
Speaker 5: to get closer to it, and I do like when
Speaker 5: I have corroborating evidence, when I have multiple witnesses seeing
Speaker 5: the same thing, saying the same thing. Obviously, these one
Speaker 5: off cases, it doesn't mean they're not true, it doesn't
Speaker 5: mean that person didn't have that experience. But it is
Speaker 5: harder for me and certainly people outside this community to
Speaker 5: accept those things because that's that's a wild story, you know.
Speaker 5: But some of these, like the doctor David Jacob's work,
Speaker 5: you know, he sees the same story over and over
Speaker 5: from all walks of life. That's pretty compelling no matter
Speaker 5: who you are. That's a data set, and people disregard
Speaker 5: that data. We were talking about the evidence earlier. What
Speaker 5: about the data that people like him have collected. I've
Speaker 5: got two thousand people from every walk of life saying
Speaker 5: that this happened to him, and nine hundred of them
Speaker 5: are word for word. That's something to me, just a
Speaker 5: normal rational way of thinking is like, well, wait a minute,
Speaker 5: what something's going on. I don't know that it's alien,
Speaker 5: I don't know what it is, but something right. Let
Speaker 5: me ask you this, have you noticed a change? Not
Speaker 5: you personally, but if you noticed a change when you
Speaker 5: were researching these books and things in the overall thinking
Speaker 5: in this area with respect to extraterrestrial beings in the
Speaker 5: way it was perceived like in the forties and fifties
Speaker 5: and then the seventies, eighties, and then you know today,
Speaker 5: like we've seen kind of an evolution, right, how has
Speaker 5: that changed for you? Have you noticed?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think the evolution of how it's changed in our
Speaker 1: kind of cultural perspective is fascinating and really important to
Speaker 1: understand because I think people tend to think that like
Speaker 1: whatever their initial impression is of UFOs, just from what
Speaker 1: they've gotten from the media or whatever they know casually,
Speaker 1: is sort of the whole picture, and it's really it's
Speaker 1: really not. And you know, going back to you know,
Speaker 1: the late nineteen forties, you know when this sort of
Speaker 1: modern UFO phenomenon kind of came into prominence. Back then,
Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't assumed it was aliens at all. Actually,
Speaker 1: that was like one of many hypotheses, including that, you know,
Speaker 1: it was perhaps Soviet technology. And there's also a lot
Speaker 1: of people who thought maybe these were coming from you know,
Speaker 1: the inner Earth, from like a hollow Earth kind of
Speaker 1: scenario that were all kinds of different ideas of what
Speaker 1: could have been going on. And I've kind of made
Speaker 1: a habit of when I go into use bookstores, I'll
Speaker 1: buy like any UFO book that was written before nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy five, because I don't care what it is or
Speaker 1: who or who wrote it, because you know, back then
Speaker 1: it was before we kind of had these more solidified
Speaker 1: ideas of what was going on. And it's really fascinating
Speaker 1: how differently people thought about it back then, because then
Speaker 1: you move forward and we have you sort of have
Speaker 1: like the beginning of the Contact d movement, but a
Speaker 1: lot of those contact e's were talking to entities that
Speaker 1: looked human or appeared to be human or near human,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of the Space Brothers situation. But then
Speaker 1: the Space Brothers kind of like disappeared, and you know,
Speaker 1: after sort of the era of Betty and Barney Hill,
Speaker 1: we suddenly get into more of you know, abductions, and
Speaker 1: sort of the Grays began to become more of the
Speaker 1: kind of arc type of what we were dealing with here.
Speaker 1: And so even like the face of who we imagined
Speaker 1: to be or who actually was inside of the UFOs
Speaker 1: has has changed over time, and I find that really
Speaker 1: fascinating how we've kind of changed our perspective on who
Speaker 1: these people are. Like before we thought they were coming
Speaker 1: from from Venus and now they're coming from like Zeta
Speaker 1: Reticuli or something like that, and those things seem to
Speaker 1: align with our own technological awareness and our awareness of
Speaker 1: the universe around us and what's Yeah.
Speaker 5: But to me, doesn't this hurt the whole credibility of it?
Speaker 5: Because if it's real, why wouldn't the first abductee or
Speaker 5: contact ee say is coming from Zata Reticuli. Why did
Speaker 5: they say it's coming from Mars Because they were influenced
Speaker 5: by movies or culture or whatever, And now all of
Speaker 5: a sudden, they're coming from this other star system. That
Speaker 5: is something that I think hurts the credibility of these claims.
Speaker 5: And it's like in Whitley Strieber's book where he talks
Speaker 5: about cases of way back, way way back, where people
Speaker 5: told stories of little beings coming down from the trees
Speaker 5: and they called them fairies and they were short, bald,
Speaker 5: big eyes, almond shaped eyes. You know, it was through
Speaker 5: their lens that they were using. And they call them
Speaker 5: ferries or they call them gnomes or whatever. They had
Speaker 5: their terms for them. And then you read a passage
Speaker 5: from an abductee case in the nineties and it's very
Speaker 5: very similar to something written a thousand years earlier, but
Speaker 5: we see it through the lens of space age technology
Speaker 5: and travel through the universe.
Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely, I mean, I think what's I think
Speaker 1: what's really interesting about the phenomenon itself is that it
Speaker 1: it does seem to be inherently deceptive, Like there's something
Speaker 1: about it that undermines it, Like the phenomenon undermines itself
Speaker 1: that like undermines its own credibility. There are things about
Speaker 1: it that that just don't make sense. And it does
Speaker 1: seem that when we encounter these things, we tend to
Speaker 1: encounter things in a way that fits with our current
Speaker 1: cultural paradigm. You know, even going back to like the
Speaker 1: airship flaps of that, you know, eighteen nineties, or you
Speaker 1: had these like weird dirigible looking things like propellers and
Speaker 1: weird things like that. You know, that was what people
Speaker 1: were seeing in the sky. And so you know, what
Speaker 1: is that It's hard to tell in it. To me,
Speaker 1: it hints at a lot of things that are potentially
Speaker 1: really interesting, like something that could potentially pack our perception,
Speaker 1: or something that is intentionally presenting itself to us in
Speaker 1: a certain way that we can maybe that we can understand,
Speaker 1: or that is maybe intentionally trying to hide its own source.
Speaker 1: And then when you mix that up with government misinformation
Speaker 1: and everything else that happens, you kind of have this
Speaker 1: like absurd tapestry of these stories and it's really hard
Speaker 1: to make sense of, like what exactly is the reality
Speaker 1: behind these things? What is that? And I don't think
Speaker 1: we have any kind of a good answer for that.
Speaker 5: I agree, and I think if there's some government involvement,
Speaker 5: they want it that way. They would like it to
Speaker 5: be a mess. They want us to not know what's
Speaker 5: going on. Speaking of the government, when we come back,
Speaker 5: we're going to ask Kelly what her thoughts are on
Speaker 5: government disclosure or the Big D disclosure. You're listening to
Speaker 5: Beyond Contact on iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast AM Paranormal
Speaker 5: Podcast Network. We are back on Beyond Contact with Captain Ron.
Speaker 5: I'm talking to Kelly Chase, and now we're going to
Speaker 5: talk about government disclosure. Kelly, even if our government makes
Speaker 5: this announcement, everyone seems to have their own definition of
Speaker 5: what quote unquote disclosure is and what it'll take for
Speaker 5: them to believe that this is real. I do think
Speaker 5: on this issue, most people have made up their mind.
Speaker 5: They don't typically say, well, I'm open. They don't. It's
Speaker 5: like in today's politics, the vast majority of people are
Speaker 5: dug in. It doesn't matter what their candidate says, doesn't
Speaker 5: matter what he does, They've made up their mind. They're
Speaker 5: voting for this guy. I find the same thing here
Speaker 5: in the UFO community. We get a new, great documentary
Speaker 5: with all this new witnesses that came forward, and people
Speaker 5: inside the community get even more excited and they feel like, wow,
Speaker 5: there's even more evidence to support my belief. But people
Speaker 5: outside the community just dismiss it. Like everything else. Very
Speaker 5: rarely is there something that moves the needle or sways
Speaker 5: people from one side to the other. We did have
Speaker 5: that back in twenty seventeen with the New York Times
Speaker 5: article and the videos and all of that. That was
Speaker 5: truly a watershed moment for this community. But since then
Speaker 5: I've seen very little that's actually made a difference in
Speaker 5: people's core beliefs. So much so, in fact, that you
Speaker 5: start to realize that disclosure can mean so many things.
Speaker 5: For some people, I don't even know why they need
Speaker 5: to have this formal disclosure anyway. I'm not sure we
Speaker 5: need to hear it from the government for it to
Speaker 5: be real. For others, it would take the President of
Speaker 5: the United States to say this is real, show the craft,
Speaker 5: show the bodies, and then some would still not believe it.
Speaker 1: What do you think, Yeah, I mean, I think we're
Speaker 1: in this really interesting space with this because one thing
Speaker 1: that the government has done really successfully, and something that
Speaker 1: I think is a downside of the disclosure movement in
Speaker 1: a way, is that we were in this position where
Speaker 1: we feel like we are we're sitting here like with
Speaker 1: our handout, waiting for the government to tell us what's
Speaker 1: going on here, and that puts in a lot of
Speaker 1: ways that we're like giving up our own agency because
Speaker 1: we're relying on somebody else to tell us what's true.
Speaker 1: And the reality of the UFO phenomenon is that it's everywhere.
Speaker 1: There have been, you know, millions of sightings around the
Speaker 1: world by all kinds of people in all walks of life.
Speaker 1: And sure, maybe the government has some craft and maybe
Speaker 1: even bodies in some like underground bunker somewhere, but what
Speaker 1: they can't do is lock up the UFO phenomenon underground,
Speaker 1: Like they can't own it, they can't possess it, they
Speaker 1: can't keep it from us. And there's absolutely nothing that's
Speaker 1: keeping everyday people from going out and investigating this on
Speaker 1: their own and deciding what they think that you can't
Speaker 1: it's part of the nature of our reality. It's a
Speaker 1: very integral part of human experience that we can see
Speaker 1: going back thousands of years in various ways and in
Speaker 1: various forms, and so like, this isn't something that they
Speaker 1: can keep from us. And so as much as I
Speaker 1: support disclosure, and I do think that like fundamentally, if
Speaker 1: there is such thing as an inalienable right, I think
Speaker 1: that the right to understand the nature of our reality
Speaker 1: is perhaps one of the most fundamental and so like,
Speaker 1: of course, I you know, support transparency and disclosure, but
Speaker 1: I do worry that like that has become the only
Speaker 1: conversation in the UFO community that at all, Like, if
Speaker 1: it doesn't come from the government, if it doesn't have
Speaker 1: that stamp of approval, if there isn't some military you know,
Speaker 1: video that has like a strict provenance, then we don't
Speaker 1: have like permission to consider it, and I just kind
Speaker 1: of like reject that idea, and I hope that we're
Speaker 1: able to reclaim ufology as something separate from the disclosure movement.
Speaker 5: I agree one hundred and fifty percent is exactly right.
Speaker 5: I don't know why we need that. That's why they
Speaker 5: put out these nonsense things like from Arrow, oh there's
Speaker 5: nothing to see here, even though we've talked directly with
Speaker 5: people who have given them evidence and then they say
Speaker 5: there is no evidence. It would have been much stronger
Speaker 5: for Arrow to come out and just say, you know,
Speaker 5: there is some things we can't explain, or some things
Speaker 5: are unknown, but we don't see any direct positive something
Speaker 5: like that, instead of just a blanket no, not now,
Speaker 5: I don't even trust you at all. It just made
Speaker 5: no sense to me. The thing is, this is such
Speaker 5: a complex issue. It's so much more than I think
Speaker 5: most people realize. It's hard because unlike other topics, we
Speaker 5: can't know the truth, or at least the whole truth.
Speaker 5: All of this is an unknown and we're just trying
Speaker 5: to get a little more understanding. It's not like if
Speaker 5: we find an artifactor, we find something, we can go, oh,
Speaker 5: here's the answer, as in certain discoveries made in other
Speaker 5: disciplines you find the answer. Let's say tomorrow morning, you
Speaker 5: and I find a craft buried in your backyard. Number One,
Speaker 5: we wouldn't believe it. Number Two, If we got it
Speaker 5: checked out and we prove that this metal can't be
Speaker 5: made here on earth, the vast majority of people would
Speaker 5: still not believe it. Even then, all of this, all
Speaker 5: it really does is open up more questions. Who built this,
Speaker 5: where are they from, Where are they, why are they here?
Speaker 5: What happened to them? It's not like any of these
Speaker 5: are simple answers, you know what I'm saying?
Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely, I mean I think that I think that
Speaker 1: it would be difficult even if they if the President
Speaker 1: got on TV and said UFOs are real and we
Speaker 1: have bodies, and they rolled out the bodies, I think
Speaker 1: it would be really difficult even for people like you
Speaker 1: and me to accept that, like that that was real,
Speaker 1: because like, how do you know? And it seems kind
Speaker 1: of crazy. We're and we're also at this kind of
Speaker 1: crisis point. I think is a culture in terms of
Speaker 1: the extent to which we trust kind of the government
Speaker 1: and legacy institutions and like authority in general. I think
Speaker 1: that people are just kind of catching on to the
Speaker 1: fact that, like, not just with the UFO phomenon, but
Speaker 1: with a lot of other things that we have been
Speaker 1: intentionally misled. And so the president can get on television
Speaker 1: and say almost anything, and half of the country is
Speaker 1: going to believe him, and the other half is going
Speaker 1: to say absolutely not. And so we don't have a
Speaker 1: good place, like a good We can't even really rely
Speaker 1: on the government for this sort of like consensus understanding
Speaker 1: of what our reality is anymore anyways, And so you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know that our end goal even really should
Speaker 1: be the president getting on television and confirming this one
Speaker 1: way or another, because I don't know that that's going
Speaker 1: to be helpful.
Speaker 5: It's an interesting proposition. And then you know, we have
Speaker 5: these things about the bodies they found in Brazil and Peru,
Speaker 5: they got these mummies. Well, obviously most of us immediately
Speaker 5: dismissed that as nonsense and silly, and now it looks
Speaker 5: like there's something to it. I don't think that as aliens.
Speaker 5: I don't think most people think it's quote unquote alien
Speaker 5: off planet. But they may in fact be real biological
Speaker 5: beings of some kind. They could be you know, little
Speaker 5: monkeys or some sort of thing that we even maybe
Speaker 5: another you know, branch of humanity in some way, but
Speaker 5: they may in fact be real. It looks like, now
Speaker 5: there might be something to it, but immediately we dismissed that.
Speaker 5: As soon as I heard that, I just literally physically
Speaker 5: laughed because they kind of made it sound like they
Speaker 5: were alien in nature, you know, and they have the
Speaker 5: big heads and the whole thing. So of course, you know,
Speaker 5: that's our knee jerk reaction. And I'm knee deep in
Speaker 5: this stuff. You can imagine how the rest of the
Speaker 5: world heard of it. They were just like, oh, that's silliness.
Speaker 5: So it's going to be very hard to overcome these things.
Speaker 5: And I think even if the president comes out like
Speaker 5: you're saying, I don't know if that's a good thing
Speaker 5: or a bad thing. I mean that the whole world
Speaker 5: would change, of course. And then what if a president
Speaker 5: from another country comes out. Does it have the same impact.
Speaker 5: How many people in America would change their belief Because
Speaker 5: the Brazilian president came out and said we have alien
Speaker 5: bodies and craft. I think that's a low number. You
Speaker 5: just said that. If our president said a lot of
Speaker 5: people wouldn't believe. Imagine if another country discloses, because this
Speaker 5: is a worldwide phenomenon. You're right that they have recovered
Speaker 5: craft supposedly, and if they do, they'll probably be able
Speaker 5: to protect that intellectual property in that technology. But they can't,
Speaker 5: like you're saying, cover up this phenomenon because it's happening
Speaker 5: to citizens of the world. Throughout the world, people are
Speaker 5: dealing with this. They're doing it firsthand and directly, not
Speaker 5: through a government or anything like that. So the governments
Speaker 5: of the world can't really truly stop this. As far
Speaker 5: as we know, We're going to have to stop there
Speaker 5: for today. We will be back next week with part
Speaker 5: two of this interview with Kelly Chase. Thanks so much, Kelly,
Speaker 5: I really enjoyed this conversation. I appreciate all your information.
Speaker 5: It's really fantastic. Thanks again, and thank you for listening
Speaker 5: to Beyond Contact. You can follow me Captain Ron on
Speaker 5: Twitter and Instagram at CID underscore Captain Ron. Stay connected
Speaker 5: by checking out Contact intheesert dot com. Stay open minded
Speaker 5: and rational as we explore the unknown right here on
Speaker 5: the iHeartRadio and Coast to Coast am Paranormal Podcast Network.
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