WEBVTT - How was antimatter discovered? 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.680 Hey, or Hey, did you know that there are physics truthers? What? 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:15.880 I know there are particle theorists, but I didn't know 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:20.920 there are conspiracy theorists. The conspiracy theorists some of them 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.720 don't believe that antimatter is a real thing, so they're 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:29.560 anti antimatter. All matter matters. What do they just think 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:33.080 that you made up this concept of antimatter? Yeah, it 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.360 turns out a lot of people don't think antimatter is real. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:39.440 They don't believe in it. Well, maybe they just need proof, 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.760 you know, maybe they're not crazy, they're not bananas. Well 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:48.239 it turns out the proof is bananas. Who are bananas antimatter? No, 0:00:48.360 --> 0:01:08.199 but it turns out bananas produce antimatter. Hi am Jorge, 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:11.679 I'm made particle physicist, and I'm Daniel. I'm a cartoonist, 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.200 but I'm not the author of PhD comics. And those 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.119 are the anti versions of the real us. The host 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:21.440 of this podcast, Daniel and Jorge explain the universe de 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.240 production of My Heart Radio. Although since you've been listening 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:27.280 to me talk and talk and talk for all these years, 0:01:27.280 --> 0:01:30.360 by now you're basically a particle physicist. That's right. I 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.560 feel like I talked to you more than you probably 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.600 talked to your grad students, so probably should give me 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:40.400 a PhDs. Don't tell my grad students that do you 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:42.480 allow them to hear hear this podcast? Do you let 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.400 them out of their basement every once in a while. 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:46.920 I'm curious if they listen. I think I've mentioned it 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:49.840 to them. Actually, some of them appear in our interviews 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.360 from time to time. Oh, I see people who can't. 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.160 That's right. I wonder if it's extra stressful for them 0:01:58.280 --> 0:02:00.360 if they say no, Are you going to judge them 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:02.400 based on what they know or don't know? No, I 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:04.360 think it's extra stressful if they say yes, and then 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.080 I asked them a particle physics question they really should 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.480 know the answer to. Then they're on the spot, and 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.360 you have them on tape. I have them on tape exactly, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.080 but the podcast universe to listen, that's right. But the 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:17.920 goal of this podcast is not just to embarrass my 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.360 graduate students and put them on the spot, but to 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.600 teach all you people out there about the amazing universe 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.959 of particles and stars and bananas that we all get 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.239 to live in. That's right, All the things that exist 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:31.320 out there in the universe and all the things that 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:35.600 maybe don't exist or that exist in a constant state 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:41.240 of denial, that's right, or things that currently only exist 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.320 in the minds of particle theorists, ideas about what the 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:47.000 universe might be like that we don't know if they 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:50.520 are real, right, because even the things that might not 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.360 be real tell us a little bit about how things 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:55.320 really are and why they are there where they are right, 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:57.360 that's right. And in physics we have this sort of 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.480 cycle of people making predictions and saying, what if the 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.679 universe works this way, and then people going out to 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:04.880 check and say, hey, it turns out you were wrong. 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:07.480 Go back to the drawing board. And there are many 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.400 many beautiful theories out there that people came up with 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.960 that they were convinced we're real, but then we're confronted 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.399 by the evidence that they're not. That's right. There are 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.720 conspiracy theorists. Even in physics. There are people who are 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:23.959 skeptical about the things that physicists have found. Right, even 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.120 physicists themselves who are skeptical, Well, it's our job to 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:28.840 be skeptical, but we like to think that's sort of 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:32.119 a reason skepticism. You know, when presented with the evidence, 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.080 we don't come up with an even more elaborate conspiracy 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:38.200 theory to deny it. We accepted, we move on. But 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.360 it's true that some of these ideas that are in 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.680 the minds of physicists, they can be kind of hard 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:44.920 to accept, and some people still out there think that 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.200 they're just ideas, that they're not actually real, right, because 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.680 it's kind of an interesting cycle in physics where you 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:52.800 might see something in nature and then you come up 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:54.880 with the theory, and then you do an experiment that 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.160 validates or disproves this theory, and then you come up 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.600 with more theories, and so it's like this weird and 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.680 interesting loop, and so it's hard to tell sometimes where 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:08.960 ideas come from. Yeah, especially in particle physics, we seem 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.720 to obscolet between two modes. One is where theorists are 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.240 leading the field, where they have ideas for what they 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.920 think is happening in the universe, and then experimentalists have 0:04:17.960 --> 0:04:20.840 to go out and basically check those ideas. And the 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.880 other mode is where experimentalists are taking the lead, where 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.359 we're out there finding crazy stuff nobody understands and theorists 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.400 are scrambling to keep up to explain all the bizarre 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:32.640 stuff that we've uncovered. So what do you think it's 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.560 that determines who's taking the lead. Is it like just 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.000 who has more free time in their hands to play 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:43.440 around and discover things, or who's more suspicious of the other. 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:45.800 It's just up to nature. It's just up to how 0:04:45.880 --> 0:04:48.440 much stuff there is to discover. You know, in the 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.559 fifties and sixties, they were discovering a new particle every 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.640 time they turned on the accelerator. They called it the 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.560 era of the particle zoo. Whereas these days it's like 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.920 decades between particles, and that gives the theorists a lot 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:02.320 out of time to be creative, to come up with 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.680 new ideas, to say, maybe it's this, maybe it's that, 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.560 because we don't have anything to sort of constrain them 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:10.400 right now, we're in a really fury driven mode of 0:05:10.440 --> 0:05:12.400 the field. Is there a song for the particles? I 0:05:12.400 --> 0:05:15.799 feel like there should be a song particles, particle zoo 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:21.880 doing the things particles do. There you go wow on 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.359 the spot, jingle making that's right by. They might be 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:32.200 particle physicists PhD and jingle engineering, granted, but it's interesting 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.600 history right in the fifties, we were discovering new particles 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:38.239 nobody understood. And in the very early days of particle physics, 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:41.120 like the first particle was discovered, right, that wasn't predicted, 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:44.120 it was discovered, and then the photon was like thought 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.080 up to explain an experiment that people had seen. So 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:50.360 the very beginning it was driven by experiments. But these days, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:52.480 of course it's driven more my theory. And so today 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:56.360 we'll be talking about one such thing that has been 0:05:56.400 --> 0:05:58.920 seen or had that some people have seen in nature 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:04.120 and physics, but maybe some physicists don't really believe that 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:06.839 it exists. Oh, I think most physicists believe it, but 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:10.720 I just wonder about the general public. Oh so it's just, um, 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.000 you say true things, you mean physicists or people? I 0:06:14.040 --> 0:06:19.800 mean people, because physicists or not people. Is that what 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.120 you're saying. You just trapped me. You totally led me 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:26.160 into a trap there, Daniel, Are you a person or 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:31.080 a physicist? Take one? No, I think that you know, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:33.400 this is really fascinating because it's one of the first 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.200 things that was ever predicted before it was seen. This 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.080 is the first time somebody said, maybe this crazy new 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.919 thing does exist out there. In the universe, somebody go 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.599 look and sort of sort of the dawn of the 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:47.839 New era. And it's taken a long time for people 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.920 to believe that it's real, and some people out there 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.479 still don't. So I guess at some point this was 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.920 a topic where some people thought it was true, but 0:06:57.000 --> 0:06:59.920 a lot of physicists maybe didn't think that we would 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.720 see it or that it would be proven to exist. 0:07:02.760 --> 0:07:06.280 That's right. Between the prediction and its discovery. It was contentious, 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.960 and it's a pretty interesting topic because it talks about 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:14.440 a huge part of the universe that is both intriguing 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.160 and super dangerous. Yeah, and fascinating. And you hear all 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.960 about it in popular culture, like it's everywhere. It's even 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:23.480 in Dan Brown novels, so you know it's got to 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.400 be cool. Oh man, it must be true then if 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:28.920 it's a Dan Brown never Yeah, I think those are 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:36.520 all heavily researched. The Da Vinci particle. All right, Well, 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.160 so today on the podcast, we'll be asking the question, 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.760 how do we know antimatter is a thing or an 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.240 anti thing? What's the correct way to how do we 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.120 know antimatter is not a thing? Or how do we 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:57.560 not know that antimatter isn't not a thing? That's put 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:00.920 it more more negative, No, I and anti that kind 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.160 of use of language, Daniel. I think that often the 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:05.760 history of particle physics and the topic of particle physics 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.520 is framed from a theoretical point of view, like what 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.960 is our understanding of the particles? That it's out there? 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.760 And that's cool, But for me, I'm an experimentalist. I 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:15.760 want to know, like, how do we know these things? 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.040 Like you say, these particles exist, how do we know 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.520 that it's real? What experiment? What? What the thing happened 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.560 that proved to us that it had to be there, 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.000 that it's part of the universe. So we did a 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.120 podcast episode about how do we know even particles exist? 0:08:29.160 --> 0:08:31.880 About the electron and how do we know photons exist 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:34.400 in this kind of stuff? And and why are their muans? 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:36.360 And so this is sort of in that series of 0:08:36.360 --> 0:08:40.040 like telling people about the moment when we confronted something 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.520 that proved to us that this new thing had to 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:44.920 be a part of our universe. Yeah, and so antimatter 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.640 is a is a word or two words put together, 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:52.560 and we kind of know it's a thing, but we 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.559 were wondering how much people out there know about it, 0:08:55.720 --> 0:08:57.840 or that they know that it is a thing and 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:02.800 not just one of those crazy physics ideas that are 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.600 floating around. Yeah. So I went around and my goal 0:09:05.800 --> 0:09:09.400 was to ask people if they knew how anti matter 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:11.680 was discovered. But I had to back up because it 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:13.719 turns out a lot of people didn't even know that 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.079 anti matter actually had been discovered, so they didn't know 0:09:17.120 --> 0:09:20.800 that it was a thing. Yeah, that was so surprising 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.240 to me. But listen to these interviews and thinks to yourself, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.520 do you know how we discovered antimatter? Here's what people 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.920 had to say. I know about about it, I don't 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:31.440 know how they discovered it now, No, I don't have 0:09:31.600 --> 0:09:34.920 heard of it, and like science fiction and stuff, um, 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.920 but I don't know how the logistics of it would 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:41.439 even be possible. So I'm not too sure. But I know, 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:43.319 like the phrase I've heard it like a lot of 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:45.920 is it a real thing or just science fiction? I like, 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.080 it's kind of like theory, So it's not too sure. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:53.439 I think they are because I read it something about 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:58.000 it keeping the universe from expanding too fast? So how 0:09:58.000 --> 0:09:59.640 do we know anti matter is a real thing? Like? 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.480 How was it discovered. I don't know exactly, but my 0:10:04.559 --> 0:10:08.920 best guess is that that it could be shown through 0:10:08.960 --> 0:10:11.920 like how the universe expands. But it seems like it's 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:16.040 being limited by a certain the end. It's predicted to 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:20.200 the antimatter Right now, it's all theoretical, isn't I don't like, 0:10:20.280 --> 0:10:23.680 have we actually done anything with like large hangar clider 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.880 as far as any matter? Yeah, I'm not sure. I 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.880 don't know. I don't know what that means for now. 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:33.160 It's it is just an idea surreal thing. Okay, how 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:39.839 do we know it exists? By calculation? To make your 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:47.280 to accommodate the amount of our understanding of matter in 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.360 the universe? Do you think matter? I thought there was 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.520 some anti matter dirt matter connection, Okay, not that I'm 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:59.000 aware of. Don't know. Don't antimatter Well, it's like I'm 0:10:59.040 --> 0:11:03.920 kind of doesn't exist. I mean, if it were. No, wait, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.160 because it goes to show that I know nothing about 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:11.600 particle physics. But there's something. I mean, listen to my 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.760 podcast for office. I would love to listen to your podcast, 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:17.520 and I'm sure that that there's something I would learn 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:22.000 from it. Antimatter is a real thing as a it's 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:25.960 a counterpart to a regular matter rights. How do we 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:30.280 know it exists because to create matter, you have to 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.600 also create antimatter, and it's been a proven reaction, and 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.440 we know that it exists despite not being able to 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:43.280 necessarily detect. I have not heard of that term actually, 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.760 all right, So it sort of seems like people are 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.400 skeptical about it, or they weren't. Not a lot of 0:11:50.400 --> 0:11:53.000 people seem sure that it is a thing, Like they 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.480 talk about it like it's a theoretical thing, or it's 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.480 not proven, or it's an idea. Maybe actually I just 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:03.120 realized maybe it's because it's in a Dan Brown novel 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.160 and they thought, oh well, then it must be b Yes, 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:10.040 thank you, Dan Brown. And that should be called like 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:15.800 anti science communication anti science. I don't think he claims 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.280 to be a scientist or claims to be a work 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.520 of nonfiction. No, But you know, when he made that movie, 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:25.079 of course, we're referring to Angels and Demons, Dan Brown's 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.800 novel about an anti matter bomb, in which the science 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.280 is mostly right actually about antime matter. But when they 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.439 made yeah they did, um yeah, yeah, the science in 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.559 there's is mostly correct. But they made that movie. They 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.839 filmed it actually where I was working at the time, 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.640 because I was at Sern and they were filming the 0:12:41.679 --> 0:12:44.120 movie at Stern and uh, and then I wanted to 0:12:44.120 --> 0:12:46.439 get a camera. What's that did you get? Did you 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.120 get a camera? Next? With Tom Hanks? Only the most 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:50.640 v I P of v I P has got to 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:52.760 give Tom Hanks a tour. So I was like, not 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.400 even in the top five list of people who would 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:58.480 get to have lunch with Tom Hanks, unfortunately, But now 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:03.000 now you now you would be making the top Yeah, 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.079 I'm really moving up. But the cool thing was when 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.360 I watched the movie, they had taken our like normal 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.400 boring workspaces, which which is basically just a bunch of 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.360 computers and screens, and they had science fictioned it up, 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:18.760 so people had like cool heads of displays and like 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:26.240 fancy interfaces with their computers, las, lasers and scanning devices. 0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:28.680 And I thought, that looks pretty cool. We should upgrade 0:13:28.880 --> 0:13:30.920 the way our office works to look like the movie. 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.079 You're like taking your pocket and looking at a metal key. 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:38.160 You're like reality versus world. But it was cool to 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.880 see what like Hollywood's best designers would do with my office. 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.680 Pretty cool, all right, So it seems like people are 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:47.600 not quite sure that it's real. They think it's maybe theoretical. 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.520 Do you think maybe they were confusing antimatter with other 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:55.720 things like dark matter or yes, absolutely, I hear that 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.840 a lot. Actually, I think that people know that there's 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:01.600 something out there is a miss dearious counterpart to matter. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.199 And it turns out there's sort of a few mysterious 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:07.400 counterparts to matter. Right, there's this whole antimatteric thing. It's 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:11.400 dark matter that there's super particles, and so there's antimatters, 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:17.200 there's quasi matter, there's matter, there's exotic matter. You know, yeah, 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:19.840 I know that's a real potentially could be a thing thing. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:26.120 Splatter matter, there's mats matter, and now you're making me 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.320 matter matter um. And so there's sort of a lot 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:31.240 of different ideas to keep track of. And so if 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.200 you're not like a particle physicists like you are, then 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:36.760 maybe it's hard to keep your finger on which ones 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:39.200 are real and which ones are theoretical. Right, And I 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.880 have to say, antimatter does sound a little ridiculous, does it. 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:46.800 It sounds very like nineties fifties science fitching. It's antimatter, 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.400 it's like matter, but it's anti The whole concept is absurd, right, 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.800 But as we said on this podcast, absurdity is no 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.680 obstacle to reality. Right. Turns out the universe is kind 0:14:56.720 --> 0:14:59.200 of bonkers. Yeah, I feel that way every time I 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.520 read the news every morning these days. It used to 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:07.200 be just physics, and now it's also politics. Is bomb beers. 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:10.000 But anyways, um so yeah, let's talk about anti matter. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:12.040 And we have a whole episode about anti matter. If 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:14.760 you scrolled through our archive, you can find that episode 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:16.880 and learn a little bit more about it. But here 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.200 we'll just kind of go over quickly about what it 0:15:19.280 --> 0:15:22.720 is and how it's not actually dark matter. That's right. 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:26.119 Antimatter is not dark matter. It's a whole other, enormous, 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:29.880 fascinating puzzle about the universe. Anti matter is a statement 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:35.040 about particles and patterns. It's noticing that particles come in pairs. 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.120 And so some of the particles that we've discovered, the electron, 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.960 the muan, the corks, there's another particle that looks just 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.760 like them, except it's the opposite in a couple of ways. 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.720 And so, for example, the electron is a particle. We 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:50.280 know it, we love it, we're made of it. It's 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.520 in ice cream. And there's this other particle called the positron, 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:56.560 which is just like the electron accepted, has a positive 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.680 charge instead of a negative charge. It has other negative 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:03.000 things about it, right, like the opposite spin or the 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:07.080 opposite quantum color, and other kinds of charges, right that 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.960 are different. Some of the other charges for the for 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.800 the forces are opposite. The electron actually doesn't have a 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:15.760 color because it's doesn't feel the strong force, but it 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.680 has the same mass and spin. So the positron are 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.000 the same in mass and quantum spin. They're both spin 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.120 one half, and they have exactly the same mass as 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.880 far as we know, but they have the opposite electric charge. 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:28.600 And so you might just say like, oh, well, it's 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.960 just a different particle, and it is. It's a different particle, 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.240 but there's definitely a relationship there. So we group them together. 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.000 And this is what we do all the time in physics, 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:38.640 and especially in particle physics, is we're looking for patterns. 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:41.680 We're looking for, you know, relationships that help us simplify. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:44.480 We're looking for symmetries that give us insight. And so 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.160 it's interesting not just because the electron has this weird 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.520 partner particle, But so does the muan, and so do 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.440 all the quarks, right, and and we call it matter 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:57.360 and antimatter because the ones we call matter are the 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.800 ones that make of most of the things we see. 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.880 A round is right, like positrons and anti mu as 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.440 an anti quarks. I'm not made of any of these things. 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:10.440 I'm made out of the regular versions, the provisions. That's right, 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:12.600 you're made of the regular versions. But you're right also 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.320 that we call them regular versions because they're familiar. They're 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:17.520 like the first ones we encountered, because they make up 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:21.040 the world we know, and so there's nothing anti about 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.440 the other ones. They're just sort of not the first 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.000 ones we found. Maybe maybe a different word might be 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:29.960 like mirror matter or symmetric matter that's actually already taken. 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.479 There's a whole other theory about mirror matter we can 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:35.359 talk about another time. But it's a crowded field of 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.240 terrible names for particles, and you're running out of English 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:42.320 words to append to your existing physics concepts. Banana matter taken. 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.080 Banana matter is not even an idea yet, not until 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.760 this podcast comes out. Is banana matter not ever a 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.840 phrase anybody's effer Herd in their mind. But it's fascinating 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:52.879 because it seems to be like a thing. It's like 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.240 a symmetry in the world, you know, like a lot 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.600 of these particles which exist, there is also this other 0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.199 one of them in the same way that we notice 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.840 that electrons and muans and taws have a relationship, right, 0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.560 They all have the same electric charge and the same 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:10.679 weak interaction, and they're organized in a similar way, but 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.840 they have different masses. So it's like these different directions 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.840 along which patterns sort of form. All these particles are 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.639 kind of different versions of each other, Like one of 0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:21.760 them has a little bit of this more, or this 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:23.720 one has the opposite of that more. But they're all 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.280 sort of particles that we know and love because some 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:29.320 of them make us who we are, that's right, And 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.280 we're tempted to define one of them is like the 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.920 normal one. But again that's just the first one we discovered. 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.520 It's like, you know, what's real chocolate, dark chocolate or 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.679 white chocolate. You know, maybe if you grew up in 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:41.960 a family or white chocolate was the first thing you ate, 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.880 then dark chocolate would seem to be like the anti chocolate, 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:49.800 do you right? Yeah, that I think we should we 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:54.760 should do that, just call it anti chocolate. Um. And 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:58.359 and and remember also the antimatter is has positive mass, 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:00.760 right as far as we oh, it's made of the 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.720 same kind of stuff, and so it is antimatter because 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.840 it has the opposite charge. And if you collide matter 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:10.840 and antimatter, they interact and turned into light and turned 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.200 into energy. But in that sense, they're just more matter. 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:17.200 It's just you know, they have this relationship. We could 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.119 have called it something other than antimatter. We could have 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:22.280 called it, called it oppositely charged matter, or something that's 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:26.399 a little bit longer to fit into it didn't focus 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:31.200 group as well. Yeah, alright, so that's what antimatter is. 0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:34.359 And there's this whole mystery about how most of the 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:37.159 universe seems to be matter and not antimatter, which we 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.879 got into into in our last podcast about antimatter. But 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:44.280 in this case, this one is more about how we 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:47.399 discovered it and how we know that it actually is 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:50.520 a thing. Right, that's right. The history of antimatter is 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.800 like almost a hundred years old now, um, it's sort 0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:57.840 of surprising, but positrons, the first antimatter particle ever discovered, 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.240 were found You know in nineteen thirty two, so we've 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.320 known about them for a long long time, which kind 0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.760 of surprised me that people still don't necessarily believe that 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:09.720 they're a thing or are aware that it's a thing, 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:12.880 because it's been a thing for decades. People, Right, Well, 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.960 I think antimatter is anti celebrating birthdays, so that's probably 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:20.640 why maybe nobody has noticed. But let's get let's get 0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:23.959 into whether or not antimatter really is real or theoretical, 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.760 and how we know that it's real or anti real, 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:29.760 whatever the case may be. But first let's take a 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:46.840 quick break, all right, Daniel, So antimatter is real, whereas 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:50.320 an anti real or anti fake, which makes it real. 0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:55.920 I'm so confused. It's really really anti anti real. So yes, 0:20:56.160 --> 0:21:01.480 it's real. That did not help. Okay, So it's real 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:06.000 in the sense that not only can it exist in theory, 0:21:06.440 --> 0:21:09.719 but you can actually like see and touch antimatter. You 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.280 can see in touch antimatter. I don't recommend actually touching 0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:17.400 any antimatter because it's quite reactive. But it is a thing. 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.760 And you know, there's sort of two ways something can 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:23.080 be a thing. One is it's in the list of 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.760 particles that can exist in the universe, like the potential particles, 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:29.520 and the other is that it's actually made, that it 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:33.199 really exists. You can imagine a universe where that's cold 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.480 and dead and the only thing in it our photons, 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.159 for example, and you could in theory and that universe 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.959 have electrons. It just don't exist. Right, So one thing 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.240 is like being on the list of potential particles, the 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:47.040 other is actually existing an antimatter is both, but started 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:49.760 off on the theoretical list and then people actually found it. 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.680 You mean, people looked at the equations of the universe 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:54.439 at the time and they said, you know, we have 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.160 a little pocket here where there could be like an 0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.840 electron with a positive charge. Like, there's nothing that would 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:05.240 prevent the equations from making this real. So you're saying 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:07.360