1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the girl school shooters, dark 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: online past links to odd and scary size like watch 3 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,760 Speaker 1: people Die, and in the last hours has an accomplice 4 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: been identified? 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,319 Speaker 2: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 2: you for being with us. 7 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 3: Well. 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 4: Wisconstant School is met with tragedy. A fifteen year old 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 4: student armed with a nine millimeter handgun shoots a student 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 4: and a teacher dead injuring six others. 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: Who is this girl, just fifteen years old, going down 12 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,840 Speaker 1: in the history books as one of the very few 13 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: female school shooters. What possessed a teen girl to have 14 00:00:56,800 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: an obsession with dark and morbid, even gruesome websites? 15 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: What if anything, did her parents know? 16 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: As law enforcement desperately seeks a motive for a horrific 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: school shooting at a private Christian school, take a listen 18 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 1: to Police Chief Sean Barnes. 19 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 5: Today at ten fifty seven am, our team was called 20 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 5: to the Abundant Life Christian School in reference to an 21 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 5: active shooter. We know that three people are dead, including 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 5: the suspect shooter. We know that the suspect shooter was 23 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 5: a teenage student who attended the school. Two other people 24 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 5: have died. That died were a teacher and a teenage student. 25 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 5: Six other people were injured. Two students are now in 26 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 5: critical condition in the hospital and these injuries are considered 27 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 5: life threatening injuries. 28 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 2: Why why, why did this happen? 29 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: We're just seeing the chiefs and video from our friends 30 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: at Fox nine Minneapolis, Saint Paul joining me an all 31 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of what we are learning 32 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: this as. 33 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: It emerges a much older. 34 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: Man that she apparently had met online may have planned 35 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: a simultaneous terror attack to go down at the same 36 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: time that she unleashed a heel of bullets and a 37 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: private Christian school. 38 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: Why is this happening? How is this happening? 39 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: Straight out to Brian Jones joining us out of Milwaukee 40 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Fox six in Milwaukee, Bria, thank you for 41 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 1: being with us. First of all, let's go back to 42 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: that moment and dissect what we know happened at the school. 43 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:46,959 Speaker 2: What happened when. 44 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 6: Nancy authorready say on Monday that fifteen year old girl 45 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 6: we know Natalie Rubbnow they say she went by Samantha. 46 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 6: She opened fire inside of a study hall classroom at 47 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 6: Abundant Life Christian School. The school is K through twelve, 48 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 6: about four hundred students. 49 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 7: This is a private Christian school. 50 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 6: We know that ultimately she shot and killed two people, 51 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 6: a fourteen year old girl who has been identified as 52 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 6: Ruby Bergara, as well as a forty two year old 53 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 6: teacher that was identified. 54 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 7: As Aaron West. 55 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 6: Now we know that there are six other people who 56 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 6: were also shot. Late last night, there was not a 57 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 6: press conference. I was actually at the school yesterday. There 58 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 6: was not a press conference, but around nine o'clock we 59 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 6: did receive an update from the police chief that at 60 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 6: least four of these victims have been released from the hospital, 61 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 6: two of them still in critical condition, fighting for their lives. 62 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: Today, let's straight out to you, Robin Drake, behavior expert, 63 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: former FBI Special Agent for My Purposes, chief of the 64 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: FBI counter Intelligence Behavioral Analysis Program, author of Sizing People 65 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: Up and Unbreakable Alliances. 66 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: Robin, we always look to why. 67 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: Of course that's not required in a court of law, 68 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: but could I just point to what we are learning 69 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 1: about a sick website that she seemingly was obsessed with, 70 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: called Watch People Die. Apparently there are over three million 71 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: people in all that have ever visited this website. 72 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: It's graphic. It's upsetting. 73 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: It's people getting shot to death, run over, killed, beheaded 74 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: in school. It includes videos of international incidents like the 75 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: horrible Isis beheadings we saw over and over and over 76 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: and worse. If you can imagine why as a fifteen 77 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:41,359 Speaker 1: year old girl visiting sites like that, why did she 78 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: have access to a gun? Why is she wearing a 79 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: shirt almost identical to the one worn by a Columbine 80 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 1: shooter that features some German electro band on it. She 81 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:56,840 Speaker 1: obviously was obsessed with them too, And how come nobody 82 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 1: knew anything about it? I find that really hard to believe. 83 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, you just hit all the motives right there. 84 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 8: That police said they're going to be looking for. These 85 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 8: things just don't happen. They don't go from zero to 86 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 8: I'm a great kid today to I'm going to kill 87 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 8: people tomorrow. They are groomed into violence, they're desensitized the violence. 88 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 8: The fact that a twenty year old is corresponding with her. 89 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: I do not believe that the parents groomed her violence. 90 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 2: I don't No, I don't mean at. 91 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: School, this tiny, ety bed Christian school. They did not 92 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: groom her into violence. So who are you saying groomed 93 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 1: her into violence. 94 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: You think the parents went. 95 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: On a whip looks up beheadings by isis Nope. 96 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 8: So this Columbine effect that happened ever since the Columbine shooting, 97 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,320 Speaker 8: there's a subculture out there of these people and you've 98 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 8: noted them on social media that are are just groomed 99 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 8: into this. When you are feeling disenfranchised, when you're feeling 100 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 8: like you're bullied, or you're going through some traumatic things 101 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 8: that home, and you're looking to feel connected somewhere, this 102 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 8: is where some of these teenagers are going. And so 103 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 8: that's where she was groomed into violence. And so this 104 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 8: twenty year old, it's part of this network in some way, 105 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 8: and I think we're going to seeing a lot more 106 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 8: tendrils come out from there. And so that's what I 107 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 8: meant about grooming. It wasn't the parents or anyone in 108 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 8: her immediate circle where she was at, because she was 109 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,559 Speaker 8: pretty disconnected from what we're hearing. 110 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: Philip Dubay joining me, a high profile defense attorney joining 111 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: us out of La Philip, just take off your defense 112 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: hat for just one moment. I want to analyze what 113 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: the chief just said. We don't know about her disciplinary 114 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: records because we don't have those records. 115 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: What have they ever heard of a subpoena? 116 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: Get the records. This is a murder investigation. It's not 117 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: hard to write out a subpoena duke is taken, which 118 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: is basically a subpoena not for your testimony, but for 119 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: your documents. 120 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 2: I want to know what the school knew. 121 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: Because in this most recent Georgia's shooting, remember that that 122 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: shooter had but just transferred to the Georgia school. And 123 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: what the Georgia School did not have was his eight 124 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: inch thick file on disciplinary problems from his old school. 125 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 2: So I don't want to hear we don't have the 126 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: records and get the records. 127 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 9: No, I agree with you. The problem is is I 128 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 9: think there are two types of records that are kept 129 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 9: by the school. They have what's called your official record 130 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 9: that the district has and the school has right there 131 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 9: on the premises. And then they have what we call 132 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 9: your traveling file, meaning it contains all the notes from teachers, 133 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 9: from the nurses as opposed to your academic progress, any 134 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 9: special needs that you might have in the school. If 135 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 9: the traveling file doesn't make it to your next school, 136 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 9: then the new school has no knowledge of your history. 137 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 9: So I think there should be a change of the law. 138 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 7: That your bullshit. 139 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 9: Get your traveling. 140 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 1: File, Debay, you're trying to compare this to the cult 141 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: great case where there was a mass shooting in a 142 00:07:57,360 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: school in Georgia where the file didn't follow him. 143 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: That is so lame. 144 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 1: Why would you have a student in your school that 145 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: could be a security. 146 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: Risk because and you don't know what you think is 147 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 2: you don't have the file. 148 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 9: Welcome to the twenty first century. This is what happens. 149 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 9: One hand doesn't know what the other is doing. It's terrible. 150 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 9: You get the official record, but you don't get the 151 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 9: traveling file that has nurses notes, complaints from other teachers, 152 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 9: complaints from other kids. Instead, you just have an academic 153 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 9: profile of how the kid is doing scholastically. It's a 154 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 9: breakdown in communication between the schools. So what does this mean. 155 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 9: It means that we need to change in the law. 156 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: Well, you know what, You can tell that to the 157 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: families of the two dead victims joining right now. In 158 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: addition to Bria Jones, Robin Drake and Philip Debay, Katherine Schweid. 159 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: Katherine Schweid, the creator of the FBI's Active Shooter Program. 160 00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 1: Former Chicago prosecutor, career FBI special agent who authored Stop 161 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: the Killing, How to End the Mass Shooting Crisis, and 162 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: How to Talk about Guns to Anyone. Catherine, thank you 163 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: for being with us. This sounds like a broken record. 164 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: After the Georgia mass shooting in a school, it was 165 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: highlighted the significance of getting records from the previous school. 166 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: Now what group now's records show? I don't know that, 167 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: but I think it's a huge dear election and duty 168 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:32,400 Speaker 1: for the current school not to insist on those before 169 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 1: they allow students in. 170 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 10: No, I'm with you on thatt Nancy. You know you 171 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 10: have to know what's coming. And I'll tell you. I 172 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 10: live in Virginia, Northern Virginia about I don't know, a 173 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 10: few blocks away from the shooter who shot up Virginia 174 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 10: Tech High School or Virginia Tech University and his that 175 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,959 Speaker 10: shooter went to my kids school where my two kids 176 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 10: went to high school, and that shooter at Virginia Tech 177 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 10: had problems in high school. That information was never passed 178 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 10: to Virginia Tech, and then Virginia Tech had no idea 179 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 10: that this kid had all kinds of issues when he 180 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 10: was in high school. What happened after that is that 181 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 10: the state legislature changed the law and said information has 182 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 10: to pass from school to school. And we have seen 183 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 10: this in a lot of cases where a shooter moves 184 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 10: up and not just a shooter, right, but another student 185 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 10: who's got violent ideation. They move from one school to 186 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 10: another because they're kicked out of one school or kicked 187 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 10: out of another. I will say this school is a 188 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 10: twelve two K school, so I think we have to 189 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 10: verify exactly how long she's been there. But absolutely, you're right, 190 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 10: the records have to move with because there isn't a 191 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 10: way for the teachers to know what they're dealing with 192 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 10: and whether this is an explosive kid or whether this 193 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 10: kid is buried in their own world and going to 194 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 10: cause a problem that isn't going to have we don't 195 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 10: know about. 196 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: Actually, you said that they've got to know whether the 197 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: kid has quote buried in their own world. I don't 198 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: know how they have access to a student, a child's 199 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,679 Speaker 1: social media be goes. I had to tell you something, 200 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: Drake Robin Drake FBI behavioral analysis expert. According to what 201 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: we're learning now, she allegedly posted under the user name 202 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: Crossixer cross sixer and commenting on a video suicide saying 203 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: gotta be thinking of something while hanging himself. She writes, 204 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: I wonder what a lot of people think before they die, 205 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: you know. 206 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,200 Speaker 2: Like just simply if it's they want to die. 207 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: At all, or just nothing, or perhaps just sex or 208 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,560 Speaker 1: something stupid. One thing I would bother. 209 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,599 Speaker 2: To think is just do it already if I was 210 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: killing myself. But I guess it depends on the situation. 211 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: It goes on and on, Robin Drake, she's commenting so casually, 212 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 1: almost flippantly about homicide and suicide. 213 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 8: Yeah, there's a lot of idolization going there, and it's 214 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 8: extremely sad that there's not more observation going on with 215 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 8: her from her parents. I mean, the parents' culpability in 216 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 8: this is going to be really interesting as it comes out. 217 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 8: And the big thing here access to firearms, kids and 218 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,959 Speaker 8: individuals that are showing a pattern of behavior over time, 219 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 8: because again I said, this doesn't go from zero to 220 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 8: one hundred. Access to firearms is really key and critical. 221 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 8: How does someone like this have it? They shouldn't and 222 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 8: she shouldn't. 223 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Brian Jones joining us Fox 224 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: six Milwaukee. 225 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: What if anything, do we know about her manifesto? Why 226 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: is a fifteen year old girl writing a manifesto anyway? 227 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: An evil manifesto likely about death, bitterness, anger, and nobody 228 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: notice that when. 229 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 6: Azi At this point, the big thing is that the 230 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 6: police chief, the mayor of Madison, they're all saying that 231 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 6: they want to avoid misinformation. They're trying to verify exactly 232 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 6: where this alleged manifesto came from. 233 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 7: A lot of concerning words in there. 234 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 6: We could see there's obviously some trouble with the family 235 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,839 Speaker 6: coming from this manifesto as well if it's actually from her. 236 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 7: Right now, the big thing the police chief. 237 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 6: They're saying they're just working to confirm investigating where exactly 238 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 6: this document came from. We know they executed a search 239 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 6: warrant at her home. That's where they say they retrieved 240 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 6: some information that could be vital to determining the authenticity 241 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 6: of that alleged manifesto. 242 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 11: A second grade teacher at Abundant Life Christian School in Madison, Wisconsin, 243 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 11: calls nine one one at ten fifty seven am to 244 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:53,400 Speaker 11: report an active shooter inside a study hall classroom at 245 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 11: the private Christian School inside the study hall, class students 246 00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 11: from several different grades dive for cover. 247 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 12: A deputy with the Dane County Sheriff's Office is first 248 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 12: to arrive on the scene, followed twenty four seconds later 249 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 12: by a Madison police officer, and they immediately enter the school. 250 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 12: Inside the school, officers report the shooter is down and 251 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 12: the weapon has been recovered. 252 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 4: Fifteen year old Natalie rubbnow also known as Sam has 253 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 4: a troubled and turbulent home life. It all comes to 254 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 4: a boiling point one Monday morning as gunshots ring out 255 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 4: in the abundant life Christian schools hallways, saying a. 256 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 2: Turbulent home life. 257 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: The parents were divorced and remarried, and divorced and remarried. 258 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: Then they have her going back and forth between homes 259 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: like every two or three days. I would be more 260 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: worried because both parents seem to be loving there. She 261 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 1: is getting a karate belt about her sick obsession with 262 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: watching people die online and the fact that she is 263 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 1: apparently courting online with a year old. 264 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 2: Throw in a gun. 265 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 1: And target practice with an obsession with Columbine. 266 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: And you have a school shooting in the making. 267 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 11: Listen Madison fire department arrives on the scene to begin 268 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 11: providing immediate care and treatment of the wounded. Of the 269 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 11: eight people who are shot, four people are transported to 270 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 11: SSM Health Saint Mary's Hospital and three are transported to 271 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 11: University of Wisconsin Hospitals. One of those victims dies on 272 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 11: the way to the hospital, and one of the gunshot 273 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 11: victims is pronounced dead at the scene. 274 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: Joining us as are now Medical Examiner Board certified forensic 275 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: pathologist doctor Eric Asen, doctor Ason. I've been thinking about 276 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:48,119 Speaker 1: the victims in this case and all the many near victims. 277 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: Their deaths were very likely not instant. Explained well, A 278 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: lot of. 279 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 13: It depends on where the gunshot wounds were located on 280 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 13: the body. If you have a wound to the head, 281 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 13: it's probably going to be pretty quick, but wounds to 282 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 13: the chest or even to the abdomen, oftentimes death doesn't 283 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 13: occur immediately at that point in time. You're going to 284 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 13: have to have a time period where blood loss occurs 285 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 13: and then death will occur. And then we also have 286 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 13: victims that are still in the hospital right now and 287 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 13: hopefully they'll make it, but their injuries are pretty serious. 288 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 13: But it just really all depends on how many times 289 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 13: each individual shot and the location of the wounds and 290 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 13: the organs that were damaged. 291 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: When someone is bleeding out, like we believe the victims 292 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: did in this case, you've got a teacher trying to 293 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: protect your students, you've got another student. You don't immediately 294 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: lose consciousness unless you're shot in the heart or the head. 295 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: You lie there and no, you're dying as you hear 296 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: all the commotion around you and gunshots ringing out and 297 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: students screaming. 298 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: You are aware of that. 299 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 13: Would have been very scarious. Deep state of despair is 300 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 13: what you would have been going through at the time. Yes, 301 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 13: for sure. 302 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 2: Who is this girl? 303 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: Extremely rare for there to be a female school shooter, 304 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: a teen girl, very statistically unlikely. 305 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 2: Who is she? Listen? 306 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 11: Fifteen year old Natalie Upnow known as Sam is identified 307 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,359 Speaker 11: as the shooter. She is a student at the school 308 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 11: and fired off multiple rounds inside the classroom. Repnow dies 309 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 11: from an apparent self inflicted gunshot wound before law enforcement 310 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 11: breaches the building. No shots are exchanged between law enforcement 311 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 11: and the teen. Sources say Repnow is known for wearing 312 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 11: a collared shirt with a tie, jeans, and combat boots 313 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 11: to school and pounding energy. 314 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: Drinks straight out to Angela Arnold. Doctor Arnold, a renowned psychiatrist, 315 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Doctor Angie. Wouldn't 316 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: the parents know or shouldn't the parents know if she 317 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: had a much older boyfriend she says is from Germany? 318 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 14: I mean, Nancy, wouldn't the parents have known about any 319 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 14: of this? The way she dresses, I mean, all of this, 320 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 14: all of this indicates to me that no one was 321 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 14: paying enough attention to her. 322 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:22,679 Speaker 1: She's I don't understand what the problem is with her 323 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 1: wearing a white collared shirt with a tie. 324 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,879 Speaker 14: What well, why is she going by Sam instead of 325 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 14: her actual name Natalie? At a very small conservative Christian school. 326 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 14: She is as far as I'm concerned, she is completely 327 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 14: out of place in the school. Okay, probably the parents 328 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 14: have put her there out of some sort of because, 329 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 14: like you said, we don't have her records. 330 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 2: But she's probably there. 331 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,239 Speaker 14: Because she's been so troubled that they thought, okay, if 332 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 14: we put her in this small school, maybe they can 333 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 14: help her. But you can't go back and forth between parents' 334 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 14: homes and have different because if parents aren't married, Nancy, 335 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,240 Speaker 14: I don't care how loving they appear. 336 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 2: They're not getting along. 337 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 14: Okay, So she's going back and forth between parents home 338 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 14: several times a week. She can get away with anything 339 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 14: she wants to get away with Number one and number 340 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 14: two she's looking for someone to attach to. They're in 341 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 14: the online boyfriend thing. 342 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 2: Okay. 343 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 14: This girl is fraught. She was fraught with so many issues. 344 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,560 Speaker 14: I can't even believe that they were ignored by her parents. 345 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 14: And I'm telling you, Nancy, that's where this starts, is 346 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 14: with the parents. 347 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: I'm very Let me just see flummoxed by the fact 348 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: that you say, because she goes by the name sam 349 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 1: for Samantha, which of course is not her name, or 350 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 1: name's Natalie. Now, because she wears a white collared shirt 351 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: and a black tie, you think she has problems because 352 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: she dresses. 353 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 2: Like a boy and goes by a boy's name. 354 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: I don't see that that is inherently a problem. 355 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,800 Speaker 2: I was a tomboy. I didn't have a problem, so. 356 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 1: What Well, there are a lot of different names for this, 357 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: but I don't see this as being her problems. I 358 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: would see that as being the school's problem for allowing 359 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: her to be bullied because of the way she dresses, 360 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: or because she uses a boy's name. 361 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 14: How do we know she was being bullied? 362 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,360 Speaker 2: Well, you can't knows, doctor Angie. 363 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: You can't say she's the problem because she dresses way 364 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: by a boy's name. 365 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 2: But yet she wasn't bullied. You actually know that she 366 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 2: was bullied. We don't know she was bullied. 367 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 14: And I'll tell you something, Nancy. 368 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 2: Then it's not a problem, is it. Oh? 369 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 14: No, I think it's a real problem, Nancy, because she 370 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 14: didn't fit. 371 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 2: She goes by a boy's name and dresses like a boy. 372 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 1: Yes, the problem is how people treat her because of that. 373 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 2: But I mean, I don't know why you're the problem. 374 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: Isn't her going by a name, were dressing like a boy? 375 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: The problem is she's watching people get murdered and kill 376 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: themselves online and she likes it. And the problem is 377 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: that it has become blase blase to her. She goes, oh, 378 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: I wonder what he's thinking about when he kills himself. 379 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: She's not worried about the loss of human life. It's 380 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 2: like a game to her. But what also, what. 381 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: Happened to the fact is she's fifteen and she's got 382 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: a twenty plus year old boyfriend. 383 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 2: As a matter of. 384 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 11: Fact, listen, police say rup Now has been texting with 385 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 11: a twenty year old Carl's Bad California man planning his 386 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 11: own mass attack. After police discovered the message, Alexander Paffendorf 387 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 11: was interviewed by the FBI, where he admitted that he 388 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 11: told rupp Now that he would arm himself with explosives 389 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 11: and a gun, and that he would target a government building. 390 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 11: No specific building was named. A California judge has issued 391 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,560 Speaker 11: at her straining order under California's gun red flag law. 392 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 11: Neighbors say police entered his home carrying out a big 393 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 11: black gun box. 394 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: Okay, well, Bria Johns, help me out here. What is 395 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,720 Speaker 1: a twenty year old man doing texting and catching a bond. 396 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 2: Land fifteen year own girl, Nancy? 397 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,200 Speaker 6: That is the million dollar question today, everyone wondering how 398 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 6: exactly these two even linked up in the first place. 399 00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 6: We know that again as we just heard that California 400 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 6: and George, that California judge ordering that twenty year old 401 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:30,000 Speaker 6: man from Carlsband to surrender all of his guns and 402 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:34,679 Speaker 6: ammunition because he allegedly told Natalie Roughnow that he was 403 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 6: also planning some sort of attack on a government building. 404 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 6: Now we do know that the two were, according to 405 00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 6: a least court records, collaborating for some sort of mass shooting. 406 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 6: Not sure how much input he could have potentially had 407 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 6: on what happened at Abundant Life, but we do know 408 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 6: these two. 409 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 7: Were in communication. 410 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 6: So my questions now were how long have they been 411 00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 6: in communication and how exactly these two came together to 412 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,680 Speaker 6: conspire some sort of. 413 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 15: Mass Police say her social media posts are terrifying, and 414 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 15: a counseling to Reubnow showed an obsession with infamous past 415 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 15: school shooters, why some of emmesist ideologies, and even a 416 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 15: chilling message from the unibomber ted Kazinski. A manifesto allegedly 417 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 15: written by Rebnow shared his screenshots that show the teen 418 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:19,879 Speaker 15: was lonely and felt quote trapped and forced into my 419 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 15: own corner. She admits she's a loner, but admits she 420 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 15: will mourn for her friends, but sooner rather than later 421 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 15: they'll leave. Investigators trying to verify the origins of the 422 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 15: manifesto being attributed to Natalie Samantha Rubnow. As part of 423 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 15: the so called manifesto or being shared around the world, 424 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 15: describing herself as a loner. Rebnow is able to express 425 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 15: unhappiness of what she describes as a broken home and 426 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 15: makes many references to a therapist. Investigators have been able 427 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 15: to uncover that Repno has seen a therapist and has 428 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 15: been involved in a contentious custodial situation with her parents 429 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 15: that had her splitting days of the week with each parent. 430 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 15: The supposed manifesto ends with a quote from the Unibomber 431 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 15: quote Finally one learns that born is a disease of civilization. 432 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: Katherine Schweid joining Us, creator of the FBI's Active Shooter program, Katherine, 433 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: I just find it really hard to believe that the 434 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: parents had no idea what was going on and this 435 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: child's life. I mean, the theory of the idea of 436 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: a female teen girls school shooter is almost unheard of. 437 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: I've got a few examples, and they're usually because of 438 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 1: love interest. 439 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:38,880 Speaker 2: But how could you not know? For instance, she posts online. 440 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: On a video of a man jumping through a window 441 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: that he is a quote fat version of Liam Payne, 442 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 1: referring to the One Direction singer who jumped to his 443 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: death in Buenos Autres. Okay, it goes on and on 444 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: and on, she's just very let me just say, frivolous 445 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: as it relays to the loss of human life. I 446 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 1: find that really difficult to believe that no one, I 447 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:09,959 Speaker 1: mean they says she's going to a therapist. The therapist 448 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: didn't know what was going on. The parents didn't know, 449 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: the school didn't notice. Now people are dead. 450 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 10: I think that what they I agree with you that 451 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:20,639 Speaker 10: I think that what they noticed had nothing to do 452 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 10: with her online performance and platform. But they would have 453 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 10: noticed other things. They would have noticed her school performance dropping. 454 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 10: They would have noticed her isolation, the amount of time 455 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 10: she spent online, the amount of time that she spent 456 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 10: with her head buried in her phone, which is kind 457 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 10: of something that I'm sure every parent thinks, well, my 458 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 10: kid's always on the phone. Yeah, what are your what's 459 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 10: your kid on the phone doing? 460 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 3: You know? 461 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 10: And I think that's something that's important because I think 462 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,479 Speaker 10: what you just said, sibylis is a great word. But 463 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 10: I think don't I would say, you know, don't overwhelmingly 464 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 10: look at a comment and say, oh, jeeve, that just 465 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 10: shows they have no heart or they're careless, because common 466 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 10: on social media are so un okay, and it's so sarcastic. 467 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 1: Okay, I agree with you. Some perverse comments online. You're right, 468 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: that may mean nothing. People will send off a text 469 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: in a heartbeat and the wish they hadn't done it. 470 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: But these are a series of comments that were frivolously done, 471 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: commenting on the loss of human life, be it through 472 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: homicide or suicide. 473 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 2: But okay, let's just pretend for the moment. 474 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: Let's suspend our disbelief for just one moment that that 475 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Let's focus on her obsession with the so 476 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: called trench Coat mafia, the Columbine shooters listen. 477 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 15: Police say her social media posts are terrifying, and a 478 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,360 Speaker 15: counseling to rupt Now showed an obsession with infamous past 479 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 15: school shooters. Why some of emphasis ideologies and even a 480 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 15: chilling message from the unibomber ted Kazinski. Greenshots show the 481 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 15: teen was lonely and felt quote trapped and forced into 482 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 15: my own corner. She admits she's a loner, but admits 483 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 15: she will mourn for her friends, but sooner rather than later, 484 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 15: they'll leave. Rebnow is able to express unhappiness, it will 485 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 15: be broken home, and makes many references to a therapist. 486 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 15: Rebno has been involved in a contentious custodial situation with 487 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,640 Speaker 15: her parents that had her splitting days of the week 488 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 15: with each parent. The supposed manifesto ends with a quote 489 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 15: from the Unibomber quote. Finally, one learns that boredom is 490 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 15: a disease of civilization, Robin Drake. 491 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: That is not a coincidence that she is wearing the 492 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,199 Speaker 1: same obscure shirt with an obscure German electory band on 493 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: it that a Columbine shooter war. 494 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 2: It's not a coincidence. 495 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: And she's taking target practice shooting at the time she's 496 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,239 Speaker 1: wearing it, and that photo is posted all under the 497 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: nose of her father. 498 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,120 Speaker 8: I agree, it's not a coincidence. These things are following 499 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 8: a track of pattern in her life where she's romanticizing 500 00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 8: about death, about dark imagery, and just talking about the 501 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 8: parents here and their involvement or lack of involvements. It's 502 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 8: strange that they put her in the school as well, 503 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,960 Speaker 8: you know, trying to maybe shove off, you know, responsibility 504 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 8: of fixing what they might have seen as a broken 505 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,719 Speaker 8: daughter as they're struggling with their own issues. So this 506 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 8: is a dark pattern of behavior that I think was 507 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 8: emerging over time that people were ignoring and try to 508 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 8: maybe shove off on someone else to fix too. 509 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: Bria Jones joining us investigator report of Fox six Milwaukee. 510 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: What can you tell me about a photo that has 511 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: just emerged up now shooting an okay sign as some 512 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: people call it, but others call it a white supremacist 513 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: sign just before the shooting. 514 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 7: Nancy, I've seen that image again. 515 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 6: Police tonight working to verify the authenticity. But the image 516 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 6: that circulating online. They say that she actually took that 517 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 6: photo in the bathroom shortly before this shooting took place. Again, 518 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,760 Speaker 6: Madison police is working to confirm the authenticity of that photo. 519 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 6: But again, just very scary. But it's easy to think 520 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 6: that she was seeing this therapist. She had this troubled 521 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 6: family life, but almost everyone we spoke to that have 522 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 6: some sort of contact with her, that has known her 523 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 6: over the years, even her neighbor saying that she was 524 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 6: always a kind and welcoming child, so she was able 525 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 6: to disguise whatever troubles she was deeply dealing with very well. 526 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: Now we hear that the home of the Wisconsin seters' 527 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: parents has been rated straight out to you. Brid Jones 528 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: joining us Fox six what happened Nancy. 529 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 6: Investigators blew out there the front door, and they immediately 530 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 6: went inside of the home. Our cameras are actually there 531 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 6: for several hours searching for evidence. We know right now 532 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 6: there actually they were able to collect some evidence that 533 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 6: they say will be crucial to determining any confirmed information 534 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 6: that what they're trying to work to verify. As far 535 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 6: as the manifesto, we know now we learned last night 536 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 6: that there were actually two guns they were found inside 537 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 6: of the school, but only one was used to carry 538 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 6: out this shooting at Abundant Life Christian School. So right now, 539 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 6: investigators say they're actually working to review and go over 540 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 6: any of that information or evidence or findings collected inside 541 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 6: of the home during that raid to work together to 542 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 6: figure out their. 543 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 2: Investigation crime stories. 544 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, we are showing photos right now as 545 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,480 Speaker 1: a little girl, even a baby, and everything seems so innocent, 546 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:46,040 Speaker 1: so normal. How this went so off the rails. I 547 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: don't know that we'll ever know the answer to that, 548 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: but I do know in the raid that Bria Jones 549 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 1: is telling us about that law enforcement got electronics, computers, phones, 550 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: and many many other items that they went in for. 551 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: Or what else did. 552 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: They find in the home? Why are they writing the 553 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: parents home? And a new trend that is reverberating across 554 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:15,760 Speaker 1: our country. Parents are increasingly being held accountable criminally for 555 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:21,240 Speaker 1: their child school shooter. Remember Athan Crumley listen the. 556 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 3: Oakland shooter the kids as the two parents that are 557 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 3: on the run right now, and said, you know Oakland, 558 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 3: Telly said, calls you see anything, And I just wanted 559 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 3: to go park my car and switch it around at 560 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 3: my office. And at my office and there was a 561 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 3: Kia and that looked like their car. And I walked 562 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 3: around and checked the plates, edits their car. And the 563 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 3: woman is here next to the car. The woman is 564 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 3: aware sitting next to her car in. 565 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: The parking lot, straight out to veteran defense attorney Philip 566 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: Dubay joining us out of LA Philip holding the parents 567 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: criminally liable for their child's shooting up a school, their 568 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: child's murdyrs. 569 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 2: That trend is increasing, it sure is. 570 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 9: And I got to tell you, if I were the 571 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 9: rough Nows, I'd be lawyering up and I'd be hitting 572 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 9: up that school's collection plate Diar council right away. They are, 573 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 9: They've got a target on their back for lack of 574 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 9: a better term. 575 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 3: What this ring? 576 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, did you hear that sound I just 577 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: played for you. A concerned citizen spots Ethan Crumley's parents 578 00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,000 Speaker 1: on the run. They knew the gig was up, they knew. 579 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: Why would they take off into hiding. 580 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. 581 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: I tell you if they did not feel they were 582 00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 1: responsible or not guilty of something. 583 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 8: No, no, no. 584 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 9: If you remember from the trial, what came out in 585 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,479 Speaker 9: evidence was that there were a series of death threats 586 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 9: made against the parents, so they were on the run 587 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 9: so that they would not be harmed. There were so 588 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 9: many people outraged and upset in the community that the 589 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 9: Crumbley's had a target on their back. That's why they 590 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 9: hit out. 591 00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 2: Okay, you know what. 592 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: Apparently a jury did not agree with you too juries. 593 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, their cases were severed and 594 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: they were tried separately. So much came into evidence about 595 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 1: how the parents blatantly ignored their son. As a matter 596 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: of fact, listen to this, My son, he had. 597 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 7: One bedroom and they got out of control. 598 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 9: And every time I go to a plan that would 599 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 9: just shut the doors and want to be a little bit. 600 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 3: So then I told him he could just use the 601 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 3: guy's bedroom so I can get his room deep cleaned. 602 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: The horrible brushing his teeth, he used. 603 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 7: The water quickly got him. 604 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 5: He went brushed properly through. 605 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 3: The classic get cavities and his braces. 606 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 7: So we end up taking the wires out. And the 607 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 7: one time we had thirteen cavities under the. 608 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: Braces, Doby, thirteen cavities up under the boys braces, thirteen cavities. 609 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 2: They couldn't daily wasn't brushing his teeth. 610 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,440 Speaker 1: The room was so disgusting, it smelled, and they would 611 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: just shut the door and walk off. I mean you 612 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: add that into the fact that the child kept actually 613 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,920 Speaker 1: asking I need help. That very morning you wrote a 614 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:18,320 Speaker 1: series of documents drawings of shootings and murders and said 615 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:23,799 Speaker 1: I need help. No one will help me. The first 616 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: victim to be a pretty girl. I'm on a shooter 617 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,240 Speaker 1: in the hand. What nobody saw all of this happening. 618 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: Nobody knew he wasn't brushing his teeth or making his bed. 619 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,520 Speaker 1: Nobody saw all of these drawings. The thoughts won't stop 620 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,800 Speaker 1: help me, And you're saying the parents were improperly targeted. 621 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,320 Speaker 9: What I'm telling you is that identate decayed mouth. This 622 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 9: is not an element of involuntary manslaughter. The question is 623 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 9: what put them on notice to make criminally negligible. 624 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,280 Speaker 2: Tobay, do you have children? I'm just curious. 625 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 9: This is why I don't right here. I don't want to. 626 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 2: So you know nothing about taking a child to the 627 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 2: dentist and the doctor regular lee whether you think they've 628 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:14,359 Speaker 2: got a problem or not. You know what, Obviously it's 629 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 2: a parent, doctor Angie. How does it lead to? It 630 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:23,520 Speaker 2: shows they weren't paying attention to Ethan Cromley, and while 631 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: he is sitting. 632 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 1: Into jail having just shot at the school, they hop 633 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: in the car and take off ninety mph. 634 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 2: Wasn't because they had a target on their back. 635 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: It's because they knew they were partially responsible, Doctor Angie. 636 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 2: Can you talk to Dubey? I mean, Nancy. 637 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 14: I've had cases of parents who are very, very doting, 638 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 14: attentive parents. They send their kid to the dentist and 639 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 14: all of a sudden he becomes an adult and he 640 00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 14: hasn't had you do send the kid to the dentist 641 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 14: all day long. 642 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,919 Speaker 2: But if he's not brushing his teeth at night, guess 643 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 2: what he might have. 644 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,880 Speaker 14: Riting Decayne teeth. I've got a case like that that 645 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 14: I take care of and he hasn't shot up with school, 646 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 14: so it could it's possible that it could show neglect. 647 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 14: But if the boy also had braces on, that doesn't 648 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 14: show neglect. 649 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: To Robin Drake joining me, Robin, apparently I'm not making 650 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: my case to doctor Angela Arnold or Philip D. Bay 651 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: that closing the door on your child's room that literally 652 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,719 Speaker 1: stinks and not noticing that they're not brushing their teeth. 653 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 2: This is not a grown man not brushing his teeth. 654 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:32,640 Speaker 2: This is a child. 655 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: And it takes a while to get thirteen cavities in 656 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: your mouth. But what about this regarding parental neglect? 657 00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 2: Listen. 658 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 16: James Crumbley purchased a Sigsur nine millimeter Model SP twenty 659 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:57,440 Speaker 16: twenty two from ACME Shooting Goods in Oxford, Michigan, on 660 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 16: November twenty six, twenty twenty one. A store employee confirms 661 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 16: that Ethan Crumbley was present with James at the time 662 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 16: of the purchase. Per statute, James Crumbley completed ATF Form 663 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 16: three hundred nine eight fifty three hundred nine eight honor 664 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,879 Speaker 16: about November twenty six, twenty one, Ethan Crumbley's social media 665 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 16: posts revealed photos of the semi automatic handgun along with 666 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 16: the caption just got my new beauty today, including a 667 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 16: moji with hearts sig Sour nine millimeter and Robin. 668 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 2: Then we learn that the very day of the school. 669 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,680 Speaker 1: Mass shooting, the parents are called to the school because 670 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 1: very disturbing drawings are found, drawings by Ethan Crumbley. So 671 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 1: Robin Drake, I'm not quite sure how Debay and doctor 672 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: Arnold are coming to the conclusion that the parents were 673 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 1: vigilant and borne no responsibility in Ethan Cromley's mass shooting. 674 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 8: Well, what we're seeing here are data points and they're 675 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,279 Speaker 8: all data points and leakage of neglect is what I 676 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:10,960 Speaker 8: want to say, is so we have an arc of 677 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,800 Speaker 8: behavior of these parents of and the mother said it 678 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:16,399 Speaker 8: very specifically, and this is what I think the jury 679 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,960 Speaker 8: saw too. She shut the door and didn't want to 680 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:22,600 Speaker 8: deal with it, and that is exactly how they dealt 681 00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:24,359 Speaker 8: with everything. And what they did was that the father 682 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:25,960 Speaker 8: did was so they didn't want to deal with it, 683 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,919 Speaker 8: so they bought them a gun. And so that's why 684 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 8: the parents were held a couple in this and that's 685 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 8: why the juries found them guilty. And I think that's 686 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 8: what we're going to be looking at juries from now 687 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 8: on is how much are the parents responsible for those 688 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,080 Speaker 8: actions and responsible for the neglect? What kind of data 689 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:41,600 Speaker 8: points over time do we have the show? 690 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: Catherine Schweiz joining Us, creator of the FBI's Active Shooter 691 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,520 Speaker 1: Program and author of Stop the Killing, How to End 692 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: the Mass Shooting Crisis. Catherine, I've got to hear your 693 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,759 Speaker 1: thoughts on Cromley's parents being hell libel by a jury criminally, 694 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: and they're so on school shooting. 695 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 10: Yea, this wasn't I agree with you and disagree with 696 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 10: your other guests. It was absolutely not a situation of hey, 697 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 10: a few cavities. That's a lack of knowledge about the case. 698 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,239 Speaker 10: And I appreciate that somebody doesn't everybody doesn't know about 699 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 10: the case. But in this case, half an hour after 700 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:22,320 Speaker 10: the shooting, the mother texted her son and said, don't 701 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 10: do it. The parents were well aware that their son 702 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 10: was on a nose dive down bought him the gun 703 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 10: on Black Friday, you know, after Christmas, she went to 704 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 10: the shooting range with him. On Saturday posted a picture 705 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 10: bragging about how she was shooting. He posted the picture saying, 706 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,400 Speaker 10: look at my new gun, my new Christmas present. Monday, 707 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,000 Speaker 10: they were called, she was texted. The family was called 708 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 10: the school because he was in school searching to buy 709 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 10: ammunition on Monday, and they did not. They ignored the 710 00:39:56,640 --> 00:40:00,200 Speaker 10: school's call, and she texted her son and said, don't yet, 711 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 10: caught next time. And then on Tuesday morning when he 712 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 10: drew as you mentioned, he drew all over a piece 713 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 10: of paper in one a classroom and a teacher was 714 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 10: able to screen capture it and take it to the office, 715 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 10: and they called the parents of the office. The parents 716 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,799 Speaker 10: never said, hey, we just bought this kid a gun. 717 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,560 Speaker 10: They never said, hey, we just bought this kid a gun. 718 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,439 Speaker 10: And two hours later he's exiting the bathroom shooting people. 719 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:25,840 Speaker 9: They knew what was going on. 720 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 10: That's why they took cash out of the bank and 721 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,759 Speaker 10: they were captured just a couple of miles from the 722 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 10: Canadian border. 723 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:38,840 Speaker 1: Catherine, what can you tell me about students obsessed even 724 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: now with Columbine making so called pilgrimages. 725 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 10: Yeah, that you know the problem with a Combine case 726 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 10: is that it has become its own cult. You know, 727 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 10: it's like every other great cult movie or every other 728 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 10: great product. It has survived twenty plus years. Right of 729 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,600 Speaker 10: people saying this is are there are sites now that 730 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 10: you can go to that are like, I want to 731 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 10: be a school shooter dot com kind of site, and 732 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,880 Speaker 10: all of those are And it's not just like it 733 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 10: was in Colorado. You know where I where I'd spend 734 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,680 Speaker 10: time with Frank Dangelis, who's a principal at Columbine. But 735 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 10: now the I've spent time over at the school and 736 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 10: you know, one of the things that Frank told me 737 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,000 Speaker 10: that was most chilling to me is he said, you know, 738 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,200 Speaker 10: we're standing outside looking at the lawn across the campus 739 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 10: and he says, hey, you know, the biggest problem that 740 00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 10: we really really have on security is that we are 741 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,480 Speaker 10: destination now for people who want to commit a shooting. 742 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 10: They pilgrimage here and they may just commit suicide on 743 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,440 Speaker 10: our property of our school, but they may come here 744 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 10: see it so that they can pay homage to it, 745 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 10: and then they go and do their own shooting. I mean, 746 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,160 Speaker 10: I tell people that you know, this abundant life school shooting. 747 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 10: They are members of the Association of Christian Schools International, 748 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 10: and I spoke to their fall group and their policy 749 00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 10: group just a couple of months ago, and I tell 750 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 10: their security people. If somebody uses the words Columbine, you 751 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,920 Speaker 10: hear parents, parents hear their kids use the word Columbine, 752 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 10: they have a problem. They have a potential school shooter 753 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,200 Speaker 10: in their house. That may sound hysterical, but I think 754 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 10: it's factual based on what we've seen, because it's moved 755 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:15,560 Speaker 10: from Colorado to the United States to the world. 756 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,200 Speaker 1: In a rarity in our country and really across the world. 757 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 1: A teen girl identified as a mass school shooter, very 758 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:30,239 Speaker 1: very rare. Right now, we know her parents' home has 759 00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 1: been rated. Her parents have not been charged in any wrongdoing, 760 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,320 Speaker 1: and it's been reported they are cooperating with police. But 761 00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 1: we do know she had a quote turbulent home life. 762 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 2: Bria. What does that mean? 763 00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,960 Speaker 1: Britand John's joining me Fox six Milwaukee. What does a 764 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:51,919 Speaker 1: turbulent home life mean? 765 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 7: Well, Nancy. 766 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 6: Since twenty fourteen, court records show that her parents have 767 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 6: been married and divorced twice. We know from this alleged 768 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,400 Speaker 6: manifesto the police are still working to verify whether or 769 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 6: not it actually came from her. We learned there that 770 00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,800 Speaker 6: obviously there is some trouble with the family life. The 771 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,120 Speaker 6: thing we know according to court records as well, at 772 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,880 Speaker 6: some point she was also seeing a therapist that was 773 00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 6: also a reference in the manifesto that allegedly belongs to her, 774 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 6: so we know that she was seeing this therapist. We're 775 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 6: not exactly sure why. We know that the mom was 776 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 6: also ordered to participate in this therapy as well from 777 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,840 Speaker 6: the court records. They also show that the parents split 778 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 6: their time with her, so at one point there was 779 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,560 Speaker 6: a two two three schedule that she was sharing with 780 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,040 Speaker 6: her parents. The latest information that I saw, I think 781 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,120 Speaker 6: Tuesday night she was having dinner with mom, and then 782 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 6: at least one weekend a month a mom. She was 783 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 6: able to be placed with her mother, but we know 784 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 6: that primarily custody remained with her dad. They split custody, 785 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 6: but she was placed with her father. A neighbor we 786 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:56,280 Speaker 6: went to the home where the raid happened, a neighbor 787 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,959 Speaker 6: saying that her father sent her to this school because 788 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 6: he thought that this would be a better place for her, 789 00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 6: So clearly her dad knew that something was going on. 790 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 1: It seems to me that she has spent like two 791 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 1: nights with one parent, then three nights with the next, 792 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,359 Speaker 1: and then it would rotate, so she was going from 793 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: pillar to post every week of her life. You know, 794 00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: the same thing is alleged in the Culton Gray case, 795 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,320 Speaker 1: recent school shooter that occurred in Georgia where he was 796 00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:29,719 Speaker 1: gifted a gun by his parents. There's Colt Gray right there. 797 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,040 Speaker 1: He grew into a school shooter. The father in that 798 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:40,360 Speaker 1: case has been charged in connection with the deaths caused 799 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,239 Speaker 1: by his son a turbulent home life. As well to 800 00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,919 Speaker 1: doctor Eric Easton joining me board certified forensic pathologist. When 801 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,680 Speaker 1: you go into a case and you are determining cause 802 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 1: of death, are you investigating the case forensically? 803 00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 2: Does it cross your mind? 804 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,600 Speaker 1: We see the same thing over and over and over, 805 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: and this life could have been saved had changes been made. 806 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:09,320 Speaker 7: I agree. 807 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 13: Yeah, a lot of these desks are definitely could have 808 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:16,080 Speaker 13: been prevented. And that's the interesting thing about forensicsthology. We 809 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 13: link up our findings from the autopsy and we work 810 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,879 Speaker 13: with public health and other agencies to try and prevent 811 00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:26,399 Speaker 13: desks in the future. So we are saving lives even 812 00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,240 Speaker 13: though we don't actually see patients, but our autopsy information 813 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 13: can help prevent desks like these from occurring. So that's 814 00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 13: another reason why I chose going into this the specialty. 815 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: Guys, we wait as justice unfolds and again at this hour, 816 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:45,840 Speaker 1: Rebno's parents have not been charged and are cooperating with 817 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 1: law enforcement. 818 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,879 Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about this case, please. 819 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:55,200 Speaker 1: Dial six zero eight two six six six zero one four, 820 00:45:55,800 --> 00:46:02,480 Speaker 1: including information about her so called boyfriend egging her on online. 821 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:08,399 Speaker 1: At age twenty, Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend