WEBVTT - #569 Jason Flom with Dusty Turner 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:09.160 Hey, it's counter Hall, the producer for wrongful Conviction. After 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:13.880 thirty one years of wrongful incarceration, Dusty Turner was freed 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:16.920 just a few weeks ago, and Maggie was able to 0:00:17.000 --> 0:00:20.240 snag a post release interview. It's hard to believe that 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:24.600 Jason covered his story nearly ten years ago. Right here, 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:26.320 Dusty Turner. 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.520 I fell into the hands of a corrupt detective. 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.680 I was naive enough to believe that I would be 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.720 able to just present all of my proof of actual innocence, 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.280 that they would investigate adequately, and so that I wouldn't 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:44.880 be going to prison because I was a good person. 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:45.920 I hadn't do anything wrong. 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:48.760 In the back of your mind, you say, well, when 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:51.479 we go to a hearing, we go to court, the 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.520 truth will come out. The prosecution from day one knew 0:00:54.560 --> 0:00:58.800 I was innocent and let forced testimony go uncorrected from 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.160 the lower courts all the way up to the United 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:02.200 States Supreme Court. 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:08.959 You have someone with a badge with ultimate and really, 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:10.880 in that moment, unchecked authority. 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:15.399 Don't presume that people are guilty when you seem on TV, 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:18.679 because it may just be a dirty da that is 0:01:18.720 --> 0:01:19.959 trying to rise upward. 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:27.280 This is wrongful conviction. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:43.040 Hello, this is a pre kay call from an animated 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.679 Virginia Department of Correction Green Steel Correctional and Work Center. 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:51.560 To accept this call, plus Nero refuses. This call is 0:01:51.560 --> 0:01:55.280 from a correction facility and is subject to monitoring and recording. 0:01:55.680 --> 0:01:58.920 Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with Jason Flaum. Today, I'm 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.920 interviewing someone who I have a great deal of respect 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.360 and admiration for, Dusty Turner. 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:08.240 On June nineteenth, the twenty one year old pre men 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:12.160 student went missing while vacationing with family friends at Virginia Beach. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.760 Twenty one year old Jennifer Evans abducted and murdered while 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.640 vacationing in Virginia Beach that Sunday night. Jennifer Evans left 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.200 the now defunct Bayou Nightclub with former Navy Seal training 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:26.040 Dustin Turner. Police say the two got in the car 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.720 with another Seal trainee, Billy Joe Brown. Police found her 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.160 body nine days later in this wooded area of Newport News. 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:36.840 She had been strangled. Both men blamed each other in court. 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.880 Turner was sentenced to eighty two years and Brown to 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:40.960 seventy two years. 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:43.800 Both sentenced to spend the rest of their lives in prison, 0:02:43.919 --> 0:02:46.799 but the appeals continued through this year. When Brown told 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:50.880 police he was solely responsible for Jennifer's death, the confession 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:54.120 gave Dustin Turner one last chance to walk free. 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.960 The Virginia Supreme Court ruled unanimously Friday against Dusty Turner's 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:02.520 petition for exoneration. The really means Turner, in another seal training, 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.639 Billy Joe Brown will spend the rest of their lives 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.679 in prison for the murder of Jennifer Evans. 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:11.200 Dusty, welcome to the show. 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:11.920 Thank you. 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:14.960 The reason you're hearing him sound sort of like he's 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.520 on another planet is because he is. He's in prison 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:20.560 in Virginia where he's been locked up for twenty two 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:22.600 years for a crime he had nothing to do with. 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:28.000 It's a complicated case and a very tragic situation because 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.680 Dusty had just completed the training to be a Navy 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.600 seal when he was arrested for a murder that he 0:03:33.639 --> 0:03:37.360 didn't commit. And Dusty, let's go back to that. When 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:39.120 did you sign up for the Navy? What made you 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:40.480 want to serve your country? 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:45.000 Well, my family has been in the military, my father, 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.240 my stepfather, my brother, my older brother, he was in 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:50.720 the Navy before me, and I guess I just have 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.720 always had that appeal towards the military to serve my country. 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:56.920 Right, But you took it to another level going through 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.520 that Navy seal training. That is the most extreme thing 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:01.200 you can do. 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:01.680 Right. 0:04:01.720 --> 0:04:05.800 Seals and rangers are the most elite troops that we have, 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.800 and so you decided to subject yourself to basically torture 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.080 in order to really become a machine. 0:04:11.760 --> 0:04:16.520 Right, Well, yeah, I guess that's right. You know, initially 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:18.919 when I first signed up to the military and the Navy, 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:21.960 I wanted to be a diver. I was a scuba 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.720 diving for about fifteen years, and before I was in 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.320 the PASTOBA Delayed Entry program, and so before I actually 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:32.280 arrived at boot camp, I set my sights on becoming 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:36.680 a stew I don't know really what it is that 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.240 drove me so much, but I just wanted to be 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.320 in the most elite unit that I could to be 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.520 in order to fight for my country. 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:51.120 And ironically, this all went horribly wrong. And there's a connection, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.880 there's a very strong connection to the training because of 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:57.120 the fact that it was that faithful night when you 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.120 were out with your training buddy, when all of this 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:05.560 tragedy began. Your training partner was Billy Brown, right, Yes. 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.240 Billy Brown and I were paired together early on in 0:05:08.560 --> 0:05:12.839 bus training and throughout the entire field training. We were 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.680 paired of. And actually the only reason we're paired of 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.760 at the beginning is because we're the same height, and 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.760 as fate would have it, that's why we were paired of. 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:22.159 And why does that matter. 0:05:22.680 --> 0:05:27.200 Well, everyone's assigned to a boat crew in bus training, 0:05:27.640 --> 0:05:30.640 and your boat crew is dependent upon the height, and 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:32.760 so we were in the same boat crew. We're the 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.839 same height. Want to structures that you and you you're together, 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.320 You're now slim, buddy. And that was early in training. 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:45.520 And the issue was Billy was a very volatile character. Right. 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:47.760 There's questions that have been raised as to whether he 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.200 should have ever been admitted into the Navy in the 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:55.120 first place when he had a history of well, let's 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.760 just say, erratic behavior that would be concerning you would 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:02.320 think before allowing him into serve in that capacity. Can 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:03.480 you talk a little bit about that. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.960 Yeah, So I didn't know about his pass until after 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:12.839 the trial. He did have a violent history. Apparently he 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:17.640 had assulted at least one femail before he came to 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:21.680 the military. He was discharged out of the Coastguard before 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.719 he came into the Navy, and he had a couple 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.400 other things on his record, which again I was unaware 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:31.479 of the prior. You know, some people have said that 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.479 when he would have gone through the process get his 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:38.279 security clearance, that they would have recognized this and then 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.800 kicked him out of the service. I'm not so sure 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.360 if that's the case or not, but he certainly had 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:48.080 the final pass, and it is surprising, you know, in hindsight, 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:50.040 he's very surprising that he was allowed not only in 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:54.200 the military, but to come through to the Special Forces. 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:58.039 And Dusty so going through the training with him, I mean, 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:03.280 you guys are taught to protect each other at all costs, 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:06.200 even if it means risking or putting your own life 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:07.280 in danger. Is that right? 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.080 Yes, it is during the training throughout a good majority 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.240 of it. If we were separated more than six feet, 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.640 we would be punished for that. You know, I could 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.320 trust them in the field, so to speak, to shoot 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.920 over top of my back and you know, a para, 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:26.680 so to speak. So there was a great deal of 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:29.600 a trust in a binding force, I guess to come 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:31.080 with the training. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.720 Right, you literally had to trust each other with your 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:36.840 lives in a very, very, in a very real way. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:41.360 I'm bringing that up because it has a bearing on 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:45.160 the events, the tragic events that happened on June nineteenth, 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:49.320 nineteen ninety five in Virginia Beach. And I don't think 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:53.560 anybody who hasn't been in your shoes can judge how 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:57.679 you acted on that particular night. It's a very unique 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:01.200 case and a very unique set of circumstances. Let's talk 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:03.960 about that. Because you guys went out to a bar 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.960 that night. The evening started innocently enough, but Billy had 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.560 a drinking problem from what I've read, and apparently he 0:08:11.600 --> 0:08:13.520 got pretty blitzed. Is that right. 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.280 Yeah, he'd been drinking that day from early on and 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.720 it just continued into the evening until we were at 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:25.000 the club at nine, and he was absolutely. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.240 So walk us through what happened, Dusty, because this is 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.800 really the moment, right when your life was turned upside down. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.960 How did this unravel from the time you were in 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:37.640 the club to when you ended up in the car, 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:40.000 and then ultimately what happened after. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.440 That, Well, you know, It started off as kind of 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.240 a normal, normal evening. I've been to that club a 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.800 few times. I was relatively new to the area in 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:55.679 Virginia Beach, not only been there maybe maybe three weeks, 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.319 and so initially three of us guys were going to 0:08:58.360 --> 0:08:59.800 go out and to the club at nine one. The 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.319 guy ended up up going, I don't know, going off 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.120 with his girlfriend or something. So Billy and I went 0:09:05.160 --> 0:09:06.800 to the club. It was again, it was kind of 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:09.800 a normal here. Billy is drunk again. I kind of 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.559 separated myself at the club from him, and I had 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:17.280 met a very nice young lady named Jennifer Evans. We 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:18.800 kind of hit it off. We were having a good 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.160 time for sharing with each other. Fellow was what we 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:22.520 were into. 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:22.720 You know. 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:25.480 She was a college student down in Georgia, and I 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:29.480 generally didn't talk very openly about my field experience, but 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:31.920 with her I did, and I opened up and I 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.719 told her what I was doing there the beach. Now, 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:38.439 mind you that I was in the club with a 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:42.200 underage and I had a fake ID that I got 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:42.559 in there. 0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.120 You were twenty at the time, man, That was yeah, 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:45.320 I was. 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.400 Twenty years old. Jennifer was twenty one. And so again 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:50.000 we you know, Jenffer and I we hit it off. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:53.079 We had to separate ourselves from from Billy. I had 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:55.760 met her girlfriend, her two friends that she came there with, 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.800 We had been out on the dance floor, and you know, 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:04.360 again it was very very normal type of evening, and well, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:07.720 the last thing I was imagined was something trastic happening 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.120 that night, So it put it in the night. Her 0:10:10.160 --> 0:10:13.360 girlfriend had left briefly they were going to go get 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.280 some coffee and everyone to say with me in the club. 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.400 So we actually had an idea of trying to go 0:10:18.440 --> 0:10:20.640 down to the beach, taking our shoes off and walking 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:23.360 down on the beach. But as the night progressed and 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:26.120 her girlfriends were going to come pick her back up 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.920 at two o'clock in the morning, which is the time 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.600 of this club quote, Jennifer and I realized we didn't 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.679 know the time to go down to the beach and 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:35.480 then make it back to meet her girlfriends, So we 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:37.720 stayed in the club, and in fact we went out 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.040 to the lobby where it was more quiet, and we 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.840 just got out there and had a conversation. Just previous 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:48.080 to this, I had gotten Billy a ride home with 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:50.360 this ex girlfriend who happened to be in the club 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:55.480 that night, Christians Bishops, and reluctantly she did agree to 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.080 they come home. She was reluctant, hesitant because she knows 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.120 the type of character that he is and she really 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:03.920 didn't want to deal with him, especially because he was 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.760 so drunk, which I understood, but you know, I was 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.520 happy that she was willing to take him home, so 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.200 I was confident that I wouldn't even see him for 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.520 the rest of the night. And I was with Jennifer, 0:11:15.280 --> 0:11:18.240 and it was closing upon two o'clock in the morning. 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:21.400 We were out in the lobby and we decided to 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.280 go out into the parking lot and wait for her 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.520 girlfriend and sit in my car and listened to music. 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.560 And so within about ten minutes, still two again, we 0:11:30.559 --> 0:11:32.800 went out to my car and we were sitting there 0:11:32.800 --> 0:11:36.240 listening to music and looking for her girlfriend to show 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:39.400 up at any minute. Instead, what we saw coming down 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:42.760 the hill was Billy Brown, and he was heading towards 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:47.080 the parkpot. You know, I certainly wasn't expecting him. Christian 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.439 was supposed to take him home. I knew he was 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.079 drunk and belligerent, but when he was approaching the vehicle. 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.480 I told Jennifer, I said, look, you know, this is 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.040 the guy I come here with. You know, he's drunk. 0:11:57.360 --> 0:12:00.000 Just just don't pay no attention to him. I've seen 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:03.240 him in the past, especially when we were in Puerto Rico. 0:12:03.679 --> 0:12:07.520 I've seen him, witness him become kind of violent towards women. 0:12:08.000 --> 0:12:11.040 I didn't think that he would become violent towards Jenner Firm, 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.960 but I did assume he was at least going to 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:18.520 be obnoxious and somewhat belligerent. So when he got into. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.520 The car, wait, hold up there for a second, Dusty, 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:21.600 what kind of car was it? 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.840 So I had a small geostorm. 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.360 So that's a small car, right, yeah, it is a 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:30.000 very small car. And you're big guys, both of you 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:30.400 guys are. 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.800 He was bigger than I. We were both six foot 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.480 two and a half, I guess, and he outweighed me 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:39.840 by maybe fifteen to twenty pounds, So he was I 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.600 think he was about two hundred and thirty somewhere aund 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.680 indus or thirty pounds. But he approaches the passer's side 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.360 of the car and he opens the door and he 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.760 kind of pushes the car seat forward where Jennifer was sitting, 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.520 he pushes a seat forward a little roughly, and he 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:57.040 gets in the car in the back seats right behind her, 0:12:57.840 --> 0:13:00.320 and of course his big frame compared with the back 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.120 in this once you did a very small comb Those 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:08.000 knees are against the back of her seat. And as 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.200 soon as he sits down, I turned to him and 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.960 I say, Billy, what what's going on? Was was Christian 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.040 not thinking you home? And he immediately goes into a 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:23.720 tirade about oh, screwing that f bet girl you think 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.360 you know, blah blah, he's a nothing. 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:29.040 But of this event, this is the last thing you 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:30.960 want to see, right, You're having a nice moment with 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.440 a girl, you have a nice connection with her. The 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:35.920 last thing you want to see, last thing anybody would 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:41.959 want to see is a drunk, belligerent, violent anybody. You 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:43.599 don't want to see anybody at that point. You just 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:45.160 want to be in your little bubble with her, listen 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.839 to music. Everything's good. I mean, you never could have 0:13:47.840 --> 0:13:50.240 predicted how bad it was going to get, but already 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:50.800 it's bad. 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.319 Yeah, So this is obviously, this is the crux of 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:57.640 the situation. Jennifer and I were having the time, you know, 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:02.240 we were not romantically involved at this time. Earlier I 0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.080 had given her a husband when I thought that she 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.880 was gonna leave with her girlfriends, and that's the only 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.800 time we had had a come physical contact. I said, 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:14.040 said Jeniffer, she's a very decent young lady. You know, 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.520 she was a good girl, was a great teacher in 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:18.959 front of her who was going to college. And it's 0:14:19.000 --> 0:14:21.480 a very nice young lady. And so we're having a 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:25.200 great conversation and you said, here comes this drunk buddy 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:26.560 of mine down to the calling. 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.840 So he's now in the back seat and is acting 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:34.880 as you would have probably predicted that he would have 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.560 act because of what you know about his character and 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.600 his current state of mind. But then it gets much worse. 0:14:41.360 --> 0:14:44.880 Yeah. Yeah, So after asking him while Christian was taking 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.560 him home, and you know, he said what he said 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.160 about her, and he turned his attention to Jennifer, and 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.080 he made some very rude comment, if I remember correctly, 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:57.680 he said something about asking her if she was a virgin, 0:14:58.480 --> 0:15:03.760 something like that, certainly inappropriate. And I immediately said, look, Billy, 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.080 why don't you get out and go find Christians that 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.840 she was going to take me home, And so he 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.040 was not trying to hear that at all. He's like 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:15.440 half that bitch. So again he kind of turns his 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:18.960 benches to Jenner from my eyes, who within two or 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.640 three or four minutes before her girlfriends were coming to 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.360 pick her up right there where we're at in the 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:26.480 parking lot. They're supposed to arrive there, they told used 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.280 to be there at to the clock, and it has 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:31.760 to be within a couple of minutes before too. And 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:34.120 of course I didn't know at that point too what 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:38.040 it transpired in the gloves between him and Christian that 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:42.440 made him additionally belligerent. So it turns his SENSI back 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:47.000 to Cennifer, and he said something about her hair. He 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.760 reached up with his right hand. I don't know if 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.880 he pushed her her shoulder or her hair. But at 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:58.120 that point Jennifer had just throughout this time, the brief 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:00.640 couple of minutes she had not set a did not 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:05.520 open her mouth to him or refined to him, And 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.840 so when he touched her hair or her shoulder, she 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.600 smacked his hand from behind, you know, swatted his hands, 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.480 and that's when he snapped. So I wasn't looking directly 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.760 at him when he snapped, but with all his might. 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:26.880 He violently thrust his arms around her, of her body, 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.920 her neck area, and with so much force that the 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:34.360 whole car literally shaped right. 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.200 And I'm thinking about it, d'sti. He had his feet, 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.440 as you said, his knees were up against the seat. 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.600 And here's a big, strong, two thirty pound guy who's 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:47.440 trained to kill with his with his hands, and he's 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:51.160 got total leverage right because he's got the knees. I mean, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.000 you know, it would have been nothing for him to 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:55.680 do this considering all of these well, you know, I 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:56.800 don't you. 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:59.040 Know, I don't know about saying it would have been nothing. 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.520 I really don't know. I know that if seemingly it 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:06.640 was coming for him, the strike that he did upon 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:13.000 this innocent young woman was so violent that when I 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.920 turned and started screaming at him to just let her go, 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:19.439 and he's screaming at me just ep and drive, just 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:22.159 up and drive first, I started crying and trying to 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.320 pull his arms off of her and screaming at him. 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:30.080 This entire brief time when this happened, Jennifer never once 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.679 reached up to defend herself. It was that quick that 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:38.760 she was out, and so I immediately grabbing his arms, 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.439 and I'm screaming at him, just let her go, let 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.240 her go, And he's screaming at me, just fucking drive, 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:45.600 just up and drive, you know. Only after a couple 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:47.760 of seconds at pulling in his arms didn't work, so 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.720 I reached under his fingers literally and pried his arms, 0:17:51.080 --> 0:17:53.280 using one hand on his elbow and the other under 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:56.240 his fingertips, and pride his arms up off of her. 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:58.960 At this point, when I dig at his arms off her, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.959 he took back and the seat and she is now 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:08.000 did her head is built towards the passenger side window, 0:18:08.840 --> 0:18:11.960 her arms on the other side. She had delided herself. 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:19.440 And I'm just complete shocked and just utter confusion and disbelieve. 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.720 And I'm still he is yelling at him. He just 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:24.040 has been drawn. 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:28.280 Drawn, Dusty. I'm just thinking that I'm just the physics 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.800 of it. I mean, it would have been almost impossible 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:33.600 for anyone, even a strong guy like yourself, to pull 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:36.640 somebody off from the side when he's in a position 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.639 like he was in, especially when it happened as quickly 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:42.800 as it did. I mean, you really had no chance 0:18:42.880 --> 0:18:45.080 to save this poor girl. And I mean I obviously 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.879 you did what you could, but she had no chance. 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:50.680 And at this point, were you concerned that he was 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:51.880 going to try to kill you too? 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:55.159 No, it certainly wasn't an they didn't go through my 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.600 head only thought. I'm not thinking anyone sitting in my 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:03.600 seat would have had the same reaction. You know, one 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:06.879 minute having a good time with a young lady, and 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.720 the next minute, this guy, this violent predator, cleatly just 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.520 alters history. I don't know it's spoke stream, but I 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:17.960 mean he is. The one act that he does, it 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.159 changes the lives of so many people. 0:19:20.440 --> 0:19:21.320 Sure, one act. 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:23.159 And he's drunk, and he's and you know, I'd like 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:24.720 to think that he really didn't know what the heck 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.560 he's doing. He has his past, and he has lent 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.879 past of a violence towards women. But he's been increasingly 0:19:30.920 --> 0:19:35.000 becoming an alcoholic over the last several weeks or months, 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:37.680 in which he's drinking every single night. It's just a bad, 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.240 bad brude. Not to mention the fact that he was 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.680 thinking sterile. He's leading up to this as will. 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.720 Obviously, he destroyed her and get killed her, and he 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.160 ruined the lives of everyone who cared about her, her family, 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:53.200 et cetera. He ruined your life, he ruined his own life, 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.240 He ruined the lives of your families, right, your family, 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:00.960 all military heroes and so yeah, in one short violence, 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:05.040 from what it sounds like last only seconds, not even minutes, 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:10.080 he managed to destroy so many people. And then that's 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:14.120 where the story gets into a whole different phase. Right, 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:18.080 and again, I can't walk in your shoes. No one 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:20.879 can walk in your shoes with all the factors that 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:23.240 were going on, Dusty, with the fact that you had 0:20:23.280 --> 0:20:28.119 been now trained, practically indoctrinated into this idea that you 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:32.440 must protect this guy and he's going to protect you. 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:34.440 You know, that's just in the mix. I just want 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:36.560 to put that in there. But besides that, you're in 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:40.440 a state I can imagine of complete shock and panic, 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.680 and who could imagine this terrible turn of events, as 0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.000 you said, And what a dramatic turn when it goes 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.680 from what sounds like a beautiful night, a nice connection 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:57.920 to this absolute horror that you're you've just witnessed as 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.119 close and personal as you can imagine with somebody you 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.639 were supposed to trust and protect and someone else that 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.520 you would have liked to protect, but you couldn't. He's 0:21:05.520 --> 0:21:08.360 screaming at you to drive what happened? 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:11.080 Yeah, And this is like you said, this, this is 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:15.120 why you're in prison is because of what you've done afterwards. 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:20.720 And if people can't understand your reaction afterwards, the normal 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.000 person would have jumped out of the vehicle and ran 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:27.359 to find the phone or the police somewhere, or to 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.640 tell somebody something just terrible has happened. And that might 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:32.560 be the case for most people. I don't know, but 0:21:33.280 --> 0:21:36.159 I think that's the way I reacted. It would have 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.200 been different. Even if my own brother would have been 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.520 in Billy Brown's place, I think I would have reacted differently. 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:44.639 This is like you said, to the way I was 0:21:44.920 --> 0:21:51.440 conditions and indoctrinated at twenty years old, I reacted how 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:55.520 I reacted. I'm not a criminal. I've never been violent, 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:57.560 and I certainly have never been violent towards the women, 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.439 and I'm not criminally minded. And so why is is 0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.040 did a twenty year old trust in this position which 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.119 I should never have been in to begin with, and 0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:10.640 had to make these kinds of decisions. And so when 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.520 I realized that in the first day and Billy Brown 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:17.399 screaming them and I really didn't know what to do. 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:21.520 I was in a place in this area, Like I said, 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:24.200 I had only been in Virginia Beach for a couple 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:28.000 of weeks and three weeks of five. So I just 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:30.919 put the car to drive and I took off driving, 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:33.520 and I didn't know where I was going. I didn't 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:37.800 even know how to barely get out of the Virginia 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:40.920 Beach area until I ended up in fact Phillip Brown. 0:22:40.920 --> 0:22:44.120 And when I started driving, he said, I'll turn left here, 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.080 turn right there, and I ended up on sixty four, 0:22:47.600 --> 0:22:50.960 and on sixty four, I'm familiar with that highway, and 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:55.159 so I just started traveling west on sixty four, and 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.040 I didn't know where I was going, and I just 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:00.399 kept driving and driving until I started I seen a 0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:03.119 lot of wooded area, and so I pulled off on 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.520 an exit. Again, I have no idea where I'm at, 0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:08.400 and I'm just driving. I pull off into another area 0:23:08.400 --> 0:23:11.760 which seemed more wooded until I get to a more 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.480 secluded area which is not that far from the interstate, 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:18.800 and both of us myself can bally get up the car. 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:25.240 I grabbed Nimfer's risks, he grabbed her legs, and we 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:31.639 carried her perhaps thirty yards into the wood. And again 0:23:32.000 --> 0:23:37.800 I was in complete chaotic, shocking, and I didn't know 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.439 what I was doing. I didn't know what else to do. 0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.639 And yeah, I understand that people people look at that 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:48.800 moment there and say, you know that, why would you 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:51.080 do that? Why you know I would have done that? 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.520 But others have not been in my shoes. They don't understand, 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:58.000 and perhaps I don't even understand why I reacted that 0:23:58.040 --> 0:24:00.800 with other than to say that this is kind of 0:24:00.800 --> 0:24:03.240 how I was trained to react. They didn't say, in 0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:06.040 a situation which you know there's been a crime and 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:09.399 it's a civilian who's been hurt, tect your swim body. 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:12.880 Oh of course I didn't say that. However, now from 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.600 what I understands, when you go through still training today, 0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:20.360 they do have classes in training that says, look, if 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:23.800 this type of scenario happens, you need to consider what 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:26.240 you know, where you're at, what you're doing, and so forth, 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:28.800 and do not protect your swim body if he has 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:33.120 done something so horrendous, so wrong. And that's the place 0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:35.320 today because of this city. 0:24:35.800 --> 0:24:37.680 But Dusty, I want to bring up an important point. 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:41.639 What is important from a legal perspective to remember is 0:24:41.680 --> 0:24:45.000 that in Virginia, hiding a body after a murder is 0:24:45.040 --> 0:24:48.399 a misdemeanor punishable by up to twelve months in jail. 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:52.199 And that's not what you got convicted of. That's not 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:54.119 what they wanted you for. And we're going to get 0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:56.760 to that in a minute. But that's a very important 0:24:56.800 --> 0:24:59.400 thing to remember. In certain states that's not the case. 0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:02.400 There's some states where it's treated very differently. In some 0:25:02.400 --> 0:25:05.040 states it's treated the same as murder, just you know, 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:08.520 hiding the body after the fact. But that's the only 0:25:08.640 --> 0:25:11.159 thing that you were guilty of. And that's one of 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.600 the reasons why I've dived into your case and why 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:16.600 I'm doing everything I can to help you try to 0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:22.760 find justice, because it's obviously a terrible miscarriage of justice, 0:25:23.040 --> 0:25:26.360 the fact that you're serving time for murder when what 0:25:26.400 --> 0:25:31.120 you did was wrong, but it's not murder. So now 0:25:32.240 --> 0:25:36.200 going forward, you go back to the base and this 0:25:36.240 --> 0:25:38.480 is big news, right the town is up in arms. 0:25:38.480 --> 0:25:41.480 Everyone's wondering what happened to this girl, and this must 0:25:41.520 --> 0:25:43.800 have been driving you crazy, right. 0:25:43.920 --> 0:25:45.879 Well, I wasn't really aware at the time of the 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:48.800 news in the media, but what was driving me crazy, 0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:55.280 is just having witnesses and knowing about it and attempting 0:25:55.320 --> 0:25:59.840 to remain silent about it. It was, Uh. It put 0:25:59.880 --> 0:26:03.000 me in a state of almost like a zombie like 0:26:03.160 --> 0:26:07.240 state throughout the next week in which I held this 0:26:07.440 --> 0:26:12.359 speakert and witness bill. They do this terrible, terrible beat 0:26:13.600 --> 0:26:17.480 and I had it within and and I couldn't tell anybody, 0:26:18.119 --> 0:26:20.280 and so it was it was definitely eating me up 0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:23.560 on the inside. So of course the coming week now 0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:26.800 we were up north something from a place called a 0:26:26.880 --> 0:26:31.400 support ap doing addigital training for men. I wasn't during 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.159 the time. I wasn't aware of the news in the 0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:37.600 media down in Virginia Beach. But it was certainly eating 0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:38.840 you up on the inside. 0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:42.959 So your conscience got the best of you, and you know, 0:26:43.119 --> 0:26:45.600 you did the right thing after having done the wrong 0:26:45.680 --> 0:26:48.800 thing and went to the authorities, right, And that's where 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:53.200 things get really dicey from everything I've read, where they 0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:56.240 didn't behave in a straightforward manner when it comes to 0:26:56.280 --> 0:26:57.640 how they treated you right. 0:26:57.840 --> 0:26:59.480 Well, first of all, you know, I did it tell 0:26:59.560 --> 0:27:02.680 the Texas you know, everything that they had asked me. 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:05.040 You know, at first I did not denied it. I 0:27:05.160 --> 0:27:09.160 denied everything, but it came to a point, especially after 0:27:09.400 --> 0:27:12.520 they had presented me with the fact that Jennifer's family 0:27:13.119 --> 0:27:17.080 is an absolute go into a traumatic and brieving experience 0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:19.520 and they just want to know how and they want 0:27:19.560 --> 0:27:22.080 to know where their daughter is, et cetera. And it 0:27:22.160 --> 0:27:27.040 was through this line of the Enquirer questioning that you know, 0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:32.040 I asked to see my very officer, and my spirit 0:27:32.080 --> 0:27:34.000 offic came in and we were alone. I told him 0:27:34.040 --> 0:27:36.520 everything that happened, and so he said that he was 0:27:36.520 --> 0:27:39.240 on an attempt to call the Dad officer and to 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:41.720 see what we could do as far as legally or 0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:45.320 something like that. But nonetheless, fifteen minutes later when the 0:27:45.440 --> 0:27:48.720 texts come in, I told them everything that they had asked, 0:27:49.040 --> 0:27:50.720 and they even asked me if I was helping them 0:27:50.840 --> 0:27:55.119 first draw maps to where Jennifer's Bobby was, which I did, 0:27:55.800 --> 0:27:58.159 I attempted to do, and then they asked me if 0:27:58.160 --> 0:28:03.320 I would accompany them they Jennifer Scotty, so which I 0:28:03.320 --> 0:28:07.000 did also, and I still my spreite officer in one 0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.159 of the expecutives. We went to the location and we 0:28:10.400 --> 0:28:13.640 separated the search through the woods. Finally I did find 0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:17.080 her body. At that point I went back to the base. 0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:21.240 They had presented Billy Brown with the map that I 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:25.119 had drawn. He said, look, your buddy completely just rolled 0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:28.160 on you. He told us everything, you're going down. You're 0:28:28.160 --> 0:28:31.199 probably gonna get the death penalty whatever else. And so 0:28:31.440 --> 0:28:35.639 at that point that he began with these stories about 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:38.640 now I had something to do with it. He later 0:28:38.680 --> 0:28:41.280 said that if he was going down, he's gonna take 0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:43.480 me with and so he made up a story saying 0:28:43.480 --> 0:28:44.360 that we're both gone. 0:28:44.760 --> 0:28:47.959 Yeah, I mean, he was obviously furious because he believed 0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:49.719 that you, who was supposed to be his protector, had 0:28:49.760 --> 0:28:52.320 betrayed him. He's gonna do what he can to bring 0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:56.760 you down with him, because, in his twisted way of thinking, 0:28:57.480 --> 0:29:00.200 you should have covered up this murder and protected him, 0:29:00.240 --> 0:29:04.120 and so you did what you thought was right. I'll 0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:08.560 be it after the fact and the consequences started to 0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:11.800 become very real now from what I've read, Dustie, the 0:29:11.880 --> 0:29:15.240 detectives made certain promises to you, right that if you 0:29:15.360 --> 0:29:18.560 help them, you were going to be kind of okay. 0:29:18.320 --> 0:29:20.960 Right, yeah, they think you know. They did say that 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:25.040 after telling my sperit officer what had happened, and he 0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:29.040 spoke to the textives as well, and together they said, look, 0:29:29.520 --> 0:29:33.280 just answer the question. It'll be all right. And I said, 0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:35.160 are you sure you know? And I kind of took 0:29:35.160 --> 0:29:37.320 it as a direct order from my spirit officer. I said, 0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:39.560 very sure, that's what I should do, and he said, yes, 0:29:39.800 --> 0:29:42.520 to answer the questions, be all right. I said, okay. 0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:45.560 You know, they didn't come to me and say anything like, well, 0:29:46.280 --> 0:29:49.480 for your testimony, will allow some kind of agreement or 0:29:49.520 --> 0:29:50.040 something like that. 0:29:50.120 --> 0:29:50.280 Now. 0:29:50.280 --> 0:29:54.120 They never actually came to me and said that. Of course, 0:29:54.240 --> 0:29:57.400 being very igorant of the criminal justice, you know, I 0:29:57.440 --> 0:29:59.400 didn't know that I would even need a lawyer or 0:29:59.480 --> 0:30:03.720 the that I should do remain time about certain things 0:30:04.080 --> 0:30:06.560 or what have you. But you know, I willingly asked 0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:11.360 them to search my vehicle. Mean, I answered the questions truthfully, 0:30:12.120 --> 0:30:15.160 And I thought that maybe what this would lead to 0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:19.320 was at some point me on a witness fan explaining 0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:22.880 that Billy Brown is being charged with her murder, that 0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:26.360 I would be explaining exactly how things happened. Maybe I 0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:29.720 was naive, but I assume that's how things worked. I 0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:32.200 certainly didn't assume that they were going to charge me. 0:30:32.720 --> 0:30:35.800 After speaking with Billy Brown and him pointing the fingers 0:30:35.880 --> 0:30:38.160 much so I certainly didn't think that I was going 0:30:38.200 --> 0:30:39.720 to be charged with the murder. 0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:42.920 And this is an important point, Dusty, right, because the 0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:47.080 police spent forty eight hours examining your car, right, so 0:30:47.120 --> 0:30:51.800 they turned that thing upside down, And yet they never 0:30:52.040 --> 0:30:56.000 used any of the evidence from the car at trial 0:30:56.280 --> 0:30:58.760 because it wasn't going to be favorable to them, And 0:30:58.840 --> 0:31:01.680 in fact, by noting the evidence at trial, they didn't 0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:04.400 have to turn over to the defense, when in fact, 0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:07.800 if they had, it would have been definitely in your 0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:10.840 favor because of the fact that everything you were saying 0:31:11.760 --> 0:31:15.000 makes true, that the physics of it just don't add 0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:17.240 up some of the things that they said. It doesn't 0:31:17.280 --> 0:31:29.280 make sense to add insult to injury. And in a 0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:33.720 terrible call it a coincidence, the year that you were convicted, 0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:36.600 nineteen ninety five, was the same year that Virginia abolished parole, 0:31:37.120 --> 0:31:40.480 which is shocking to my conscience. In a nation where 0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:43.000 we believe in second chances and we believe in redemption, 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:45.800 and we believe in that stuff, the idea that if 0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.160 you were so misfortunate is to be convicted in Virginia 0:31:48.360 --> 0:31:50.800 nineteen ninety five or later you are not eligible for parole. 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:53.960 I wouldn't even be able with parole. Meant, I wouldn't aware. 0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:57.400 You know that they had just abolished parole in Virginia. 0:31:57.480 --> 0:31:59.400 I don't think I would have would have paired at 0:31:59.400 --> 0:32:02.520 the time. I wasn't, So I gets concerned about the 0:32:02.520 --> 0:32:04.360 sense I was given. I was concerned about the fact 0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:07.800 that I was convicted of two charges that I did 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:10.440 not commit. Whether they gave me ten years or one 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:13.200 hundred years, I was convicted of something I didn't commit. 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:14.680 And that's that was the Travis. 0:32:15.280 --> 0:32:20.080 It's I can't I can't really imagine how that could 0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:23.320 make sense in a society like ours, but it is 0:32:23.360 --> 0:32:26.840 in fact a reality, and it's your reality, and it's 0:32:26.880 --> 0:32:31.239 why now everyone is working so hard to help you 0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:35.040 get clemency or a pardon or a conditional pardon from 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:37.760 the governor because of the fact that that is the 0:32:37.800 --> 0:32:42.920 only recourse left. Another thing that's sort of a unique 0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:47.800 and to me troubling concept is the idea that you 0:32:47.840 --> 0:32:51.640 only have really one appeal of actual innocence in Virginia, right, 0:32:52.080 --> 0:32:54.360 And that's something I want to get to Dusty, because 0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:58.600 first of all, a crazy thing happened in two thousand 0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:02.600 and two, right, which is that Billy he had some 0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:05.560 sort of an awakening and decided to come clean and 0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:08.040 tell the truth. We're talking two thousand and two, fifteen 0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:11.360 years ago, right, And he recanted and admitted that he 0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:14.080 was the sole murderer. And I think people are listening 0:33:14.080 --> 0:33:15.760 now and going, well, wait a minute, if that happened, 0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:19.880 why is Dusty still in prison? Can you explain that scenario? 0:33:21.600 --> 0:33:25.280 Yeah? If I can't explain it, yeah, as he's serving 0:33:25.360 --> 0:33:28.959 his time and some other prison I guess some guys 0:33:29.160 --> 0:33:32.920 had approached him and gotten him to get into Christianity, 0:33:33.440 --> 0:33:37.920 and this allowed him to finally release this burden that 0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:41.960 he's been holding for all these years and to confess. 0:33:42.480 --> 0:33:46.440 And so that happened again in early two thousand and 0:33:46.520 --> 0:33:49.840 Here it is, fifteen years later, and I'm still sitting here, 0:33:50.480 --> 0:33:55.560 still sitting here after he's complaint, after he finally said, yeah, 0:33:55.720 --> 0:33:59.640 everything that Dusty said, that's what happened, and the judge 0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:03.440 rule that he's credible in that confession. So there was 0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:06.600 no mechanisms more recently of even getting back into court 0:34:06.840 --> 0:34:10.440 with such new evidence. But there was a time later 0:34:10.920 --> 0:34:14.840 in two thousand and sixty Pound seven until we finally 0:34:14.920 --> 0:34:18.399 rid of actual innocence to the appeals court, which ended 0:34:18.440 --> 0:34:23.319 with well, the appeals court initially overturned my convictions. They 0:34:23.320 --> 0:34:27.759 did convict me of the misdemeanor accessory after the fact 0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:30.920 of the felony, which indeed I am blp of and 0:34:30.960 --> 0:34:34.239 like you said earlier, that was a maximum sentence of 0:34:34.480 --> 0:34:38.160 twelve months in jail. When they made this ruling and 0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:41.319 they dropped my charges. This is two thousand and eight, 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:44.239 two thousand and nine. I was expecting me home within 0:34:44.280 --> 0:34:45.919 a matter of days or weeks. 0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:48.360 This is what makes me insane. And I think anybody 0:34:48.400 --> 0:34:53.000 listening is like, wait, wait, wait, So your conviction was vacated, right, 0:34:53.520 --> 0:34:57.600 And then that means to a layman who's not intimately 0:34:57.640 --> 0:35:01.680 familiar with the law or criminal proceedings, when your conviction 0:35:01.760 --> 0:35:03.759 is vacated, you have every reasonablieve you're going to go home. 0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:03.960 Right. 0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:07.120 They've actually come out and said, okay, we are now 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:09.840 acknowledging there is no physical evidence connecting you to this. 0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:12.880 None of this stuff adds up, right, not to the murder. 0:35:13.000 --> 0:35:15.600 Like you said, you're guilty of the accessory after the fact, 0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:20.680 and now you have the actual killer confessing in court 0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:24.640 under oath sounds like a winner. Right, you're going home, 0:35:24.800 --> 0:35:28.160 except for then the state decided to put its foot 0:35:28.239 --> 0:35:30.319 back on your neck, so to speak. Right, and then 0:35:30.360 --> 0:35:31.000 what happened? 0:35:31.800 --> 0:35:35.719 Yeah, so the toils the vacated my conviction and I 0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:37.279 was expect to be home with a matter of day. 0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:41.279 The acting Attorney General came forward and said that he 0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:45.080 wanted to appeal this decision, and so they appealed it 0:35:45.080 --> 0:35:47.880 and went back through the appellate court and then on 0:35:48.040 --> 0:35:51.319 into the later into the Supreme Court of Virginia and 0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:53.520 under a new series that's one of the judges of 0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:57.120 the Pilates Court created. And the thread of actual innocence 0:35:57.239 --> 0:36:00.600 is so demanding as they say that the evidence has 0:36:00.640 --> 0:36:04.760 to be just as substantial as DNA evidence, which unfortunately 0:36:04.800 --> 0:36:07.520 there's no DNA evidence in my case. But so one 0:36:07.520 --> 0:36:11.440 of the judges says, well, although he didn't have anything 0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:13.640 to do with the murder, and this has been decided 0:36:13.680 --> 0:36:15.719 by the judges, he didn't have anything to do with 0:36:15.760 --> 0:36:21.760 the murder, and he didn't restrain the victim. This judge says, well, 0:36:22.160 --> 0:36:26.960 perhaps a jury could believe that when Dusty walked out 0:36:26.960 --> 0:36:29.680 of the bar to the parking lot, to his car, 0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:33.080 that a jury could believe that that was an abduction 0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:37.319 by deception. And if a jury believed that and then 0:36:37.440 --> 0:36:40.480 Jennifer was later killed regardless of power who was killed her, 0:36:41.200 --> 0:36:44.160 that I which still be guilty and the jury is 0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:46.360 still find me guilty of both the abduction and the murder. 0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:48.759 So they created a new theory in my face. There's 0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:51.439 just not only is the asonine, but it was never 0:36:51.480 --> 0:36:54.680 presented before the jury. And there's no jury in the 0:36:54.719 --> 0:36:58.239 world that would believe this idea, especially with all the 0:36:58.239 --> 0:37:02.279 additional evidence. So under that because of it, and it's 0:37:02.320 --> 0:37:06.120 all the semantics of this word restraint, and that's what 0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:08.840 it comes down to. I'm still in prison because of 0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:13.520 the semantics of the word restraint. And it's unbelievable. So 0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:18.200 they overturn my release and they reinstate my colas and 0:37:18.239 --> 0:37:21.919 here it is seven years later and I'm still sitting here. 0:37:24.440 --> 0:37:27.920 So they're basically trying to say that they're going back 0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:30.320 in time to nineteen ninety five. They're going back in 0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:33.279 time the nineteen ninety five and trying to come up 0:37:33.320 --> 0:37:37.359 with a theory that could actually read your mind. Right, 0:37:37.600 --> 0:37:40.839 They're going back in a time machine and reading your 0:37:40.920 --> 0:37:43.799 mind and saying, well, this may have been, could have been, 0:37:43.880 --> 0:37:46.280 would have been something that he might have been thinking 0:37:46.320 --> 0:37:50.319 of doing. There's no evidence to prove it. How could anybody? 0:37:50.840 --> 0:37:53.040 I don't know. It makes me nuts. It's such a 0:37:53.040 --> 0:37:56.960 bizarre it's such a bizarre thing for a court or 0:37:56.960 --> 0:38:00.200 a judge to say. As far as I'm concerned, I. 0:38:00.160 --> 0:38:03.480 Think that the legislators recognized that after my case, and 0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:07.360 they said, you know, this rivactional innocence is obviously entirely 0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:11.839 too restrictiveness and to open for interpretation or whatever. So 0:38:11.880 --> 0:38:15.719 they since I went through this rivactional inscence, now they've 0:38:15.800 --> 0:38:19.480 changed the law the wording of the rivactionalness. Instead of 0:38:19.520 --> 0:38:24.280 saying could any juror find guilt with this evidence? Now 0:38:24.880 --> 0:38:27.319 it's more specific, and it may sound puplicit, but it's 0:38:27.360 --> 0:38:31.760 more specific thing. Would a rational juror still find guilt 0:38:31.880 --> 0:38:34.520 with this new evidence and the new word in which 0:38:34.560 --> 0:38:37.200 I can't go back into the river actionalness because it's 0:38:37.200 --> 0:38:40.200 the one shot deal. And Tom left hung out to 0:38:40.280 --> 0:38:41.759 drial this on this whole thing. 0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:44.120 Well, hopefully not for too long, because you have a 0:38:44.160 --> 0:38:46.560 lot of really great people on your side now, and 0:38:46.600 --> 0:38:49.400 you have a governor who cares about these issues and 0:38:49.440 --> 0:38:53.880 who has shown in actions that he believes in justice, 0:38:53.880 --> 0:38:57.360 that he believes in fairness, and that he has the 0:38:57.440 --> 0:39:00.000 courage to do something about these things. 0:39:00.280 --> 0:39:02.759 From my perspective, he does like a very fair man, 0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:07.239 and I do have hope. I do think that he 0:39:07.360 --> 0:39:10.160 will look at my case, and I know and I'm 0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:12.600 very confident that if he does, if he just looks 0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:15.360 at my kids, then he'll realize that I'm not supposed 0:39:15.360 --> 0:39:19.000 to be here. I do have that tremendous hope that 0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:20.759 he will take action in my case. 0:39:21.200 --> 0:39:23.239 Well, Dusty, I can tell you that I think that 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:26.200 there's a lot of reason to have hope in this 0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:29.000 current administration that we have there because of the fact 0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:32.080 that you do have such a ground swell of support, 0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:36.000 and not only that, because of what you've done, the 0:39:36.440 --> 0:39:40.880 remarkable record of accomplishment that you've had on the inside. 0:39:41.600 --> 0:39:43.719 And I want to talk about that. I know that 0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:47.360 you know you're finding hope in a hopeless place, but 0:39:47.640 --> 0:39:49.680 I want to paint a picture for the audience of 0:39:49.760 --> 0:39:52.920 just how grim it is to be in the situation 0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:55.399 you're in, and then also what you've managed to make 0:39:55.520 --> 0:39:56.600 out of that experience. 0:39:57.600 --> 0:40:00.640 Well, you know, I've got a quote a guy who 0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:04.040 knows suffering, and a couple of things have kept me 0:40:05.160 --> 0:40:07.200 I don't know, to move forward, and its positive. I 0:40:07.200 --> 0:40:09.960 can be one of those the supporters that I do have, 0:40:10.520 --> 0:40:13.640 not just my family, but others, you know, total strangers 0:40:13.960 --> 0:40:16.680 who have reached out, and it gives me a lot 0:40:16.719 --> 0:40:19.000 of hope, and it gives me a lot of strength 0:40:19.040 --> 0:40:22.480 to endure this what I'm going through in this environment. 0:40:22.920 --> 0:40:26.280 And it is terrible, It's absolutely terrible. But this quote, 0:40:26.400 --> 0:40:29.080 it's one of my favorite quotes. It says that everything 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:32.320 be taken from a man, but one thing, the last 0:40:32.520 --> 0:40:35.560 of the human freedom, and that is to choose one's 0:40:35.600 --> 0:40:39.759 own attitude in any set of circumstances, choose one's own 0:40:39.760 --> 0:40:43.320 way as a man named Victor Franklin. And you know, 0:40:43.360 --> 0:40:46.840 I guess I've taken on this, this attitude, you know, 0:40:47.360 --> 0:40:51.560 that which allowed me to persevere through through bud training 0:40:51.640 --> 0:40:54.880 and is still training. I reached for this on a 0:40:54.960 --> 0:40:57.680 daily basis. Now I put my feet on the ground 0:40:57.719 --> 0:41:01.000 and say I have to I have to continue on today, 0:41:01.000 --> 0:41:02.760 and I have to push forward, and I can't allow 0:41:03.120 --> 0:41:06.400 this environment to get the best of them. And I 0:41:06.440 --> 0:41:10.680 want to transcend in spite of where I'm at. And 0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:13.600 so I've looked to try to do things to try 0:41:13.680 --> 0:41:15.880 to help out not only the people around me in 0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:19.359 my environment for years, and I've helped guys who have 0:41:19.360 --> 0:41:23.360 struggled with drug addiction or you know, criminal thinking. And 0:41:23.600 --> 0:41:25.480 I've just kind of made it as part of my 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:27.799 own our character to trying to help you guys out 0:41:28.280 --> 0:41:31.320 and to move past, to transcend some of these things 0:41:31.480 --> 0:41:33.719 in which they've been stuck in. And not only that, 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:38.280 I proposed a dog training program. That's the last institution 0:41:38.360 --> 0:41:40.960 that I was at. It was luckily it was to 0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:42.800 prove and we had the dogs come in and for 0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:46.400 about three years I was able to be a dog trainer. 0:41:47.160 --> 0:41:49.880 And I had studied and read up and learned so 0:41:50.000 --> 0:41:52.759 much about training dogs and I really enjoyed that. 0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:56.359 And how does that training program work? That the dogs are? 0:41:56.400 --> 0:41:59.160 They rescue dogs and what happens to them after they're trained? 0:41:59.680 --> 0:41:59.879 Right? 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:03.279 So these are absolutely rescued dogs. These were abandoned. We 0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:07.279 worked with a shelter out of Ashland, Virginia called bark 0:42:07.360 --> 0:42:11.360 Baar Community and that's the abandoned the adoption and rescued canines. 0:42:11.520 --> 0:42:14.759 A really great organizations, and they would bring us six 0:42:14.840 --> 0:42:17.680 dogs at time and we would have them for three months, 0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:20.000 and we had a total of twelve dog trainers, two 0:42:20.040 --> 0:42:23.400 free stocks, and we would train the dogs. These dogs 0:42:23.400 --> 0:42:27.160 that were abandoned and you never know what their history was. 0:42:27.400 --> 0:42:30.880 They could send maybe beat them or however that they 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:33.640 were rescued and we were given the tools to help 0:42:33.680 --> 0:42:38.200 train these dogs, and then afterward they were adopted and 0:42:38.280 --> 0:42:41.720 we had an adoption rate of some ninety something percent 0:42:42.120 --> 0:42:43.680 coming out of there, and we trained them in basic 0:42:44.200 --> 0:42:47.080 pin obedience and it was a really, really great, really 0:42:47.120 --> 0:42:50.400 positive program. And from there I had gotten into me 0:42:50.440 --> 0:42:54.200 and another guy, we had been talking about different ideas 0:42:54.200 --> 0:42:56.920 concerning the judicial system and we'd come across this idea 0:42:57.080 --> 0:43:01.319 of restorative justice. And after we had studied on it 0:43:01.920 --> 0:43:05.120 and we've gotten in contact with some restorative justice practitioners, 0:43:05.320 --> 0:43:09.200 we decided that with our knowledge of this environment in 0:43:09.239 --> 0:43:13.800 the prison and we knew what was lacking in this environment, 0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:15.759 we knew some of the things that could help in 0:43:15.800 --> 0:43:21.600 the rehabilitations of the fellow inmates, we constructed a restorative 0:43:21.680 --> 0:43:24.239 justice program. We're still in the process of kind of 0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:27.080 flushing out some of the more detailed aspects of the curriculum. 0:43:27.440 --> 0:43:30.080 But this is what my passion has been into for 0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:32.759 the past few years, and I've really been concentrating my 0:43:32.840 --> 0:43:36.759 efforts into this program. And we have people restored, just 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:41.360 practitioners from universities and other organizations to really really like 0:43:41.440 --> 0:43:44.759 what we have created and they want to help them 0:43:44.800 --> 0:43:45.359 out a little bit. 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:47.640 Well, you know, it's you know what it sounds like 0:43:47.680 --> 0:43:49.960 to me. It sounds like you're doing more good, like 0:43:50.000 --> 0:43:53.040 I said, from this hopeless place than most people on 0:43:53.080 --> 0:43:56.720 the outside can never even dream of doing. And that's 0:43:56.880 --> 0:43:59.960 you know, that's to your credit, obviously, and it's another 0:44:00.120 --> 0:44:05.560 reason why it makes sense for you to be granted 0:44:05.680 --> 0:44:08.480 your freedom after all these years. And if you even 0:44:08.520 --> 0:44:10.920 allow your mind to go there, what do you want 0:44:11.000 --> 0:44:12.360 to do? What's your plan? 0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:16.560 Well, as you hit upon do I even want to 0:44:16.600 --> 0:44:20.719 go there? I have been reluctant, especially after seven years 0:44:20.719 --> 0:44:24.800 ago when I was expecting to get out and I 0:44:24.960 --> 0:44:28.920 was denied that. It was a very crushing blow and 0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:32.600 it was difficult to endure. But yeah, of course I 0:44:32.640 --> 0:44:36.279 do allow myself to think about what I'm out of here, 0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:40.400 although I don't dwell upon it because I just I 0:44:40.440 --> 0:44:43.520 don't know. I just can't go there for so much. 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:48.480 But the more I've gotten into restort justice, the more 0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:52.279 I think it's an extremely beneficial philosophy and instead of 0:44:52.280 --> 0:44:57.360 practices to kind of compliment our criminal justice system. And 0:44:57.440 --> 0:45:00.520 so I really want to pursue that direction, and I 0:45:00.600 --> 0:45:02.680 think that I can help out. I think I have 0:45:02.719 --> 0:45:06.120 a lot of school or feel over here, So now 0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:08.120 it's for being in here for the last twenty two 0:45:08.880 --> 0:45:13.120 plus year in observing things from the inside, I feel 0:45:13.120 --> 0:45:15.319 like I have a great perspective to be able to 0:45:15.320 --> 0:45:17.239 help out in the source. 0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:20.680 Just that sounds like a great scenario to me, and 0:45:20.719 --> 0:45:42.160 both have benefits to society across the board. I don't 0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:43.960 know if you're able to talk about it, but it 0:45:44.040 --> 0:45:46.719 really struck me earlier when you told me that the 0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:50.319 prison or your pod is on lockdown. What does that mean? 0:45:51.080 --> 0:45:55.760 Well, so, where I'm at now, we've been on lockdown 0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:58.759 the last two weeks, which means we're componed to our 0:45:59.040 --> 0:46:03.479 concrete box TI and when we're coming out every seventy 0:46:03.520 --> 0:46:06.080 two hours to take a shower, they bring the food 0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:09.719 to our door and I say our door because I 0:46:09.800 --> 0:46:13.240 have a fill partner. Every sales two people for film, 0:46:14.160 --> 0:46:15.839 and this is how I've been living for the last 0:46:15.840 --> 0:46:18.440 two weeks, but moreover, it's pretty much how I've been 0:46:18.480 --> 0:46:21.399 living for the last twenty two years. But when we're 0:46:21.440 --> 0:46:24.600 not on lockdown, you know, I do have a ploticum 0:46:24.840 --> 0:46:27.200 of freedoms if you will. You know, every once in 0:46:27.200 --> 0:46:30.000 a while I can get outside and take fresh air 0:46:30.760 --> 0:46:34.200 and work out. I've been rolled into a horticulture class 0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:37.880 and learn about horticulture. I can actually have my fingers 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:40.160 and the soil and be able to have the opportunity 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:43.640 to plant some feeds and vegetables and so forth. It's 0:46:43.680 --> 0:46:47.560 really been a positive thing, really really joining the horticulture. 0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:51.120 And the last question about the prison experience, what is 0:46:51.160 --> 0:46:53.680 an average day like when you're not on lockdown? You 0:46:54.080 --> 0:46:57.480 wake up at five or something, How does how do 0:46:57.560 --> 0:46:58.640 you get through the day? 0:46:59.680 --> 0:47:03.160 Yeah, so they have what they call count procedures in 0:47:03.200 --> 0:47:05.600 which they have to come through and literally count every 0:47:05.600 --> 0:47:09.560 individual while they're locked in the cell, about four times 0:47:09.680 --> 0:47:12.680 or so every day, spread out throughout the day. And 0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:15.000 during that time you have to be standing up and 0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:17.560 your lives have to be on so they can see 0:47:17.680 --> 0:47:22.120 that you're alive and will and that starts certainly before 0:47:22.160 --> 0:47:24.399 six o'clock in the morning. So over the last twenty 0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:29.200 two years, I've been up at five forty five about 0:47:29.200 --> 0:47:31.879 that time and standing on the feet mid life wrong 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:35.920 the fluorescent lights every morning, and that's one of the 0:47:35.960 --> 0:47:37.880 countsmen like I said, that goes throughout the day, and 0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.560 that kind of segments the day. That in the beating 0:47:42.040 --> 0:47:45.680 the channel repeating schedule. So the breakfast, unch, and dinner 0:47:46.400 --> 0:47:49.760 and these kind of condition you and condition one into 0:47:50.360 --> 0:47:53.920 the segments of the day. And so there's a period 0:47:53.960 --> 0:47:56.920 in the morning after breakfast, I which if we're lucky, 0:47:56.960 --> 0:48:00.600 we might get outside the recreation and recreations of a 0:48:00.680 --> 0:48:04.719 yard as a track. I usually go jogging. If I'm 0:48:04.760 --> 0:48:07.719 able to, I'll go into the weightlifting area list some 0:48:07.800 --> 0:48:11.400 weight and they have a couple other recreational things to 0:48:11.719 --> 0:48:15.920 guys hit around with the volleyball or the basketball. Otherwise, 0:48:15.960 --> 0:48:20.160 there's not a lot of kind of rehabilitative programs. There 0:48:20.200 --> 0:48:22.399 are a few, you know, I've been through a lot 0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:25.360 of those things, but for most guys, I think that 0:48:25.640 --> 0:48:27.640 you know, this place is more of a warehouse for 0:48:27.840 --> 0:48:32.040 humans than anything. It's not really designed for as it 0:48:32.120 --> 0:48:36.000 called correction necessarily, although there has been, you know, steps 0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:39.520 towards that direction, of the hopeful steps in that direction. 0:48:40.080 --> 0:48:41.920 You know, I think that the governor has made some 0:48:42.160 --> 0:48:45.000 steps in that direction with the re entry ideas and 0:48:45.120 --> 0:48:49.640 so forth. But you know, unfortunately there's largely the prisons 0:48:50.320 --> 0:48:54.360 are placed with the warehouse humans. So there's only so 0:48:54.480 --> 0:48:57.040 much a mind too in this environment. And so I 0:48:57.080 --> 0:49:01.279 do utilize my time studying, you know, I spend my 0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:05.359 money on the books and there's a library when I can, 0:49:06.200 --> 0:49:08.120 and so that's kind of how I send my. 0:49:09.719 --> 0:49:12.319 Well Dusty, all, I can tell you again, I know 0:49:12.440 --> 0:49:14.600 you know about it, but I hope you can feel it. 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:19.880 There's a real wave of support for you among so 0:49:20.000 --> 0:49:23.560 many people who care and who want to see you 0:49:24.440 --> 0:49:26.320 or released and able to get on with your life 0:49:26.400 --> 0:49:30.160 and put this nightmare behind you. And I want to 0:49:30.200 --> 0:49:33.920 turn it over to you. Typically on wrongful conviction. I 0:49:34.080 --> 0:49:37.279 like to leave the last word open so that you 0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:41.560 can share any thoughts you have about anything at all 0:49:42.320 --> 0:49:45.280 with our audience. I'll turn it over to you, Dusty. 0:49:46.360 --> 0:49:49.239 Okay, Well, as you mentioned, I do have a lot 0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:53.560 of very strong supporters out here you Virginia, who are 0:49:53.640 --> 0:49:58.200 total strangers, some of them gotten to know personally, and 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:02.640 they're just break people. I'm very fortunate to have these 0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:06.440 people in my corner and who have recognized my wrongful prediction. 0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:10.799 As far as the last words, I'm thankful. I really 0:50:10.840 --> 0:50:15.719 appreciate mister Bomb for interviewing me. Very thankful that increasingly 0:50:15.760 --> 0:50:19.960 more people know that I have been wrongfully depicted. And 0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:22.840 I hope that people, you know, maybe reach out and 0:50:23.800 --> 0:50:28.720 talk to somebody. The filmmaker named JD. Sleet has created 0:50:28.719 --> 0:50:32.959 a film called The Target of Opportunity about my case, 0:50:33.000 --> 0:50:35.000 and I was able to view it one time a 0:50:35.080 --> 0:50:39.160 few years ago, and I think it encapsulates my situation 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:42.479 pretty pretty well. And I just hope that people will 0:50:42.520 --> 0:50:44.799 take some kind of interest and look into my case. 0:50:45.280 --> 0:50:48.920 And I know that if anybody does, they will see 0:50:49.200 --> 0:50:51.200 the travesty and the fact that I've been here for 0:50:51.239 --> 0:50:54.360 over twenty two years for something I didn't do. I 0:50:54.440 --> 0:50:58.480 had such a future in front of the military. I 0:50:58.480 --> 0:51:02.920 love the military, plan to make a career. I want 0:51:02.960 --> 0:51:05.319 to be in the Philpines and want to be the 0:51:05.320 --> 0:51:08.520 best still Team operators in the country that I could 0:51:08.520 --> 0:51:11.360 have been. My world was turned upside down and a 0:51:11.360 --> 0:51:14.399 lot of so many people over one net brother guy. 0:51:15.120 --> 0:51:18.400 So many people have been destroyed in Ruin in a 0:51:18.480 --> 0:51:22.160 Brevin's family and my family, like city, and Billie Brown's family, 0:51:22.280 --> 0:51:25.120 so many others. But again, I just thank you. I 0:51:25.160 --> 0:51:28.120 really appreciate opportunities. Back to the interview. 0:51:28.480 --> 0:51:30.319 So, Dusty, I want to repeat that the name of 0:51:30.360 --> 0:51:31.319 the film is. 0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:34.239 The name of the film is Target of Opportunity. 0:51:34.520 --> 0:51:37.520 Target of Opportunity is the film. I've watched it. I 0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:40.560 hope other people that are listening now will watch it too. 0:51:41.160 --> 0:51:43.080 And Dusty, I'm sure people are listening. They want to 0:51:43.120 --> 0:51:45.000 know how can they get involved? What would you advise? 0:51:45.719 --> 0:51:49.560 Right? You know, unfortunately I am largely isolated you. I 0:51:49.600 --> 0:51:53.200 have no Internet accidents. I've never been on the internet. 0:51:53.280 --> 0:51:56.439 I've never even used the bill phone. However, I think 0:51:56.480 --> 0:52:00.800 that people could maybe visit. I know that twitters have 0:52:01.000 --> 0:52:04.640 created a website at Fredusty dot org. And I do 0:52:04.800 --> 0:52:08.520 know too that there's a Twitter and Instagram account under 0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:11.799 my name Free Dusty Turner, I think, and I know 0:52:11.880 --> 0:52:14.200 that it's in a very leaf reaching out there that 0:52:14.360 --> 0:52:18.560 my supporters would I'm sure to direct folks into the 0:52:18.600 --> 0:52:20.920 best way that they might be able to help. I 0:52:20.960 --> 0:52:24.920 know that writing to the governor Governitarry mccallis in Virginia's 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:29.480 directly may help out O. Other than that, I'm really 0:52:29.520 --> 0:52:31.640 not sure what else say about it. 0:52:31.719 --> 0:52:35.480 Okay, So once again, that's free. Dusty Turner is the 0:52:35.520 --> 0:52:39.279 Instagram and the Twitter. The movie is Target of Opportunity. 0:52:40.040 --> 0:52:43.160 Please learn more about this case and get involved. Follow 0:52:43.280 --> 0:52:47.560 Dusty on social media and there'll be more information there 0:52:48.080 --> 0:52:50.960 that you can learn how to how to help. And 0:52:51.040 --> 0:52:53.080 now is the time to do it, because we're really 0:52:53.120 --> 0:52:56.640 in the home stretch of this, this effort to free 0:52:57.280 --> 0:53:02.920 Dusty Turner. You have wha we're having Dusty. All I 0:53:02.920 --> 0:53:07.160 can say is hang in there. We're coming to get you. 0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:12.560 Thank you Dusty for being on the show, and I'll 0:53:12.600 --> 0:53:17.160 look forward to seeing you on the outside, hopefully sometime 0:53:17.280 --> 0:53:21.719 very soon. You've been listening to a very special episode 0:53:21.840 --> 0:53:28.080 of Wrongful Conviction Behind Bars with Dusty Turner. Dusty, thanks again, Thank. 0:53:27.880 --> 0:53:30.239 You sir, Thank you for using GTL. 0:53:38.960 --> 0:53:41.600 Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 0:53:41.640 --> 0:53:44.000 to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts one 0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:47.040 week early and ad free by subscribing to Lava for 0:53:47.120 --> 0:53:49.920 Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our 0:53:49.920 --> 0:53:53.080 production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as 0:53:53.080 --> 0:53:56.880 my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Kleiber. 0:53:57.000 --> 0:53:59.120 The music in this production was supplied by three time 0:53:59.160 --> 0:54:02.239 OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us 0:54:02.239 --> 0:54:05.120 across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and 0:54:05.400 --> 0:54:08.360 at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram 0:54:08.400 --> 0:54:11.239 at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of 0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:14.960 Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal Company Number One. 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:17.440 We have worked hard to ensure that all facts reported 0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:20.360 in this show are accurate. The views and opinions expressed 0:54:20.360 --> 0:54:22.719 by the individuals featured in this show are their own 0:54:22.800 --> 0:54:25.600 and do not necessarily reflect those of Lava for Good.