1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technology with text stuff from stuff 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: dot Com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm 3 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland and joining me in the studio is special 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: guest Holly from Stuff You miss in History class High Holly. Hello, ha, 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: I am so glad that you are here too. Yeah, 6 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: because I've been asking other hosts here at how Stuff 7 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: works if they could sit in as a guest and 8 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: kind of mix things up and find out what they'd 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: be interested to talk about in the world of technology. Sometimes, uh, 10 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 1: they don't have a suggestion right. Sometimes they're they're like, no, 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: you just tell me what you want to talk about, 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: and I think, well, okay, but then it's just gonna 13 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 1: be like another episode of tech Stuff. But other people 14 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: like Holly come to me with an idea that is phenomenal. See, 15 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: we want to talk about patent wars, and we've talked 16 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,959 Speaker 1: about patent wars on tech stuff before. Pat wars are 17 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: when you've got at least two, but sometimes multiple entities 18 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: all claiming ownership for some kind of technology and competing 19 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: against each other and sometimes taking each other to court 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: and saying nasty things about each other's moms. And you 21 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: might think that that's a pretty recent activity. You know, 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: the smartphone that that's a big patent war, right, lots 23 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: of modern viciousness around patents. But here's the thing that 24 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: modern viciousness has a long and detailed history that we 25 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: can trace back to one of the most important pieces 26 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: of technology. I am not using hyper bowl people, this 27 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: is true to me. It's certainly a super important piece 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: of technology. I mean, when you look at when you 29 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: look at mass production, this is one of the specific 30 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: pieces of technology that makes mass production possible. I'm talking 31 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: about sewing machines. So sewing machines. As it turns out, 32 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: we're the focus of one of the first major patent wars. 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: And the story is a complex one, filled with joy 34 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: and tragedy and a lot of crabbiness and some stitches, 35 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: and there's uh a lot of that. If any of 36 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: your listeners have listened to the stuffy Masson History class 37 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 1: episode on this very thing, a lot of this will 38 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:19,959 Speaker 1: be repeat information. Yeah, but it's just so fascinating how 39 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: completely similar to modern day arguments over tech, these ones 40 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: where I mean, it's it's it's you can draw direct parallels. 41 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: I mean, seriously, when you look at a company trying 42 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: to make a piece of technology as complex essay a 43 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: tablet or a smartphone. Now, a tablet or a smartphone 44 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,440 Speaker 1: by itself is one thing, but it's made up of 45 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: numerous individual components, some of which may not be owned 46 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: by one particular entity. The same thing is true with 47 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: sewing machines, as it turns out, absolutely So before we 48 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: jump into the sordid history of the sewing machine, I 49 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: thought I would remind folks what a patent is. What's 50 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: all about? So patents are that's a set of exclusive 51 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: rights granted by government some form of agency that has 52 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: authority to an inventor or an assignee for the use 53 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: of an invention. Now, an invention does not have to 54 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: be a complete thing all by itself. It could be 55 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: a component of a thing, Like if you were to 56 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: have a full invention, Let's say it's a washing machine. 57 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,960 Speaker 1: Because we've done a tech stuff episode about washing machines, 58 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: and you come up with a way to improve washing 59 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: machines so that they wash clothes, uh more thoroughly or 60 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: without as much bashing around, so the clothing doesn't take 61 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: as much of a beating. And you come up with 62 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: that that improvement and then you patent it. You can 63 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,400 Speaker 1: do that. That's perfectly acceptable, and then any washing machine 64 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 1: that would use that particular improvement would have to either 65 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: have been made by you or have received your permission 66 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 1: to use that specific technology. Yes, so patents can be 67 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: for a full invention with all the different components, or 68 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: it can be just a tiny little thing that's an improvement. 69 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: The point of it is, the reason why you would 70 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: want to patent it is that you get those exclusive 71 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: rights to use that technology. Now, in return for that, 72 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: you have to disclose how that technology works. You submit 73 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: a patent application that has a full description of the 74 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: mechanism and the purpose of your invention, and that becomes 75 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: publicly available, and once the patent expires, which they do, 76 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 1: anyone can access that information and make use of it. 77 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 1: But during the course of that patent, that the lifespan 78 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: of that patent, it's all you, boss. They got to 79 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: come through you. Yeah, Although that is an interesting one 80 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: related to what we're talking about today, because there were 81 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 1: several instances on the road to the sewing machine actually 82 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,679 Speaker 1: becoming a fully fledged thing where there were some FIBs 83 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: told in the patent filings so that they could keep 84 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: their proprietary information to themselves, so when people tried to 85 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: replicate them, they did not always work. Right. See, you 86 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: could if you wanted to. If you invented something, there's nothing, 87 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: nothing that requires you to get a patent, you could 88 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: keep it secret and say this magical technology is mine 89 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: and mine alone. But the danger of that, of course, 90 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 1: is if someone gets hold of it and figures out 91 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: how it works, they could then make the same thing 92 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: with and you would have no protection. Not only could 93 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: they make the same thing, they could file a patent 94 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: for it, and then you would no longer be able 95 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: to use the thing you invented. Yeah, it's all about 96 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: first rites. So as it turns out, and we haven't 97 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,119 Speaker 1: even gotten into the complication of filing for a patent 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: in one country versus filing for a paton and another. 99 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: But we we've hemmed in hod long enough about patents. 100 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: Let's start off. Tell me what what was sewing before 101 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: the sewing machine. Well, most people would probably recognize it 102 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: if they thought about pre sewing machines sewing, they would 103 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: think of an needle and thread. But even way before that, 104 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: there were people using bones and sticks to kind of 105 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: poke holes into fabrics. Usually leathers and then they would 106 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 1: pass a lace through. It was not all one continuous 107 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: thing where the lace was attached to the the boner stick. 108 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 1: And then they added the eye that circle that the 109 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: whatever you're lacing material passes through. Right. The thing that 110 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: confounds me whenever I have to threaten a needle, many 111 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: people say that I think you either got it or 112 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: you don't. I don't got it. Um, I hope I 113 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: keep it forever because I have a few friends who 114 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 1: are saying are getting to the age and their eyesight 115 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 1: isn't letting them keep it anymore. But yeah, so that 116 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: eventually that I was added and people were able to 117 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: do it all in one fell swoop where they poked 118 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: the hole and passed the binding material through, and that 119 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: also developed things like embroidery. But it wasn't really until 120 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: the Industrial Revolution that stitching became mechanized. And even pre 121 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: Industrial Revolution in the mid seventeen hundreds, where kind of 122 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: industry was first starting to get seated, is really where 123 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: we started having first people on record actually filing things. Right. 124 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: So you have Charles Wisenthal here who received a patent 125 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: for a needle for a sewing machine, but it had 126 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: a distinct disadvantage and that it was a design for 127 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: a needle for a machine that didn't exist. Yeah, he 128 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: just really felt like he had the needle situation worked 129 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: out and eventually the rest would follow. You've got to 130 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: really nail the needle. Is his approach, which the needle, 131 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: how it came to be where it is today, really 132 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: took a lot of iterations. And his needle um had 133 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: was pointed on both ends, and it had an eye, 134 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: but the eye was in the middle, which is not 135 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: If anybody knows a modern sewing machine or hand sewing needle, 136 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: the eye is usually not in the middle. Right. So 137 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: then we move forward to we have Thomas sat who 138 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: I love the title of his patents. We talked about 139 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: this in the History podcast. It's it's so scint it's 140 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: it's so delightful and just completely reboth. Do you want 141 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: to read it? Let me, let me do this all right. 142 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: So he's an English cabinet maker, so uh, sorry, listeners, 143 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: here we go an entire new method of making and 144 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: completing shoes, boots, splatter dashes, clogs, and other articles by 145 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: means and tools and by means of tools and machines. 146 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: Also invented by me all that purpose and of certain 147 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: compositions of the nature of Japan or Vanish, which will 148 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: be very advantageous in many useful applications. End quote. Don't 149 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: you just feel like this is sewing as described by 150 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 1: a Monty Python sketch? It does feel like John Cleese 151 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: is the person who needs to deliver that patent title. 152 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: For me, it's Terry Jones, but we all have our 153 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 1: favorite that you went more Welsh. That's all right, that's 154 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: what's fine with that. So he's actually describing three different 155 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: machines in this patent um. So the second of the three, 156 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: which is why it's so crazy wordy, I mean Japan 157 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: and varnish, which are the words used for like these 158 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 1: coding um methods have nothing to do with stitching. But 159 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: he kind of lumped everything together. And he was a 160 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: cabinet maker. I think maybe he didn't like to file 161 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: a lot of paper. Yeah, that's probably one of those 162 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: things we thought, goodness, gracious, this is a lot of work. 163 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: Let's let's just lump it all together. One very wordy 164 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: document will cover me. So the second part of his 165 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: patent was actually the one first ditching, and it really 166 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: wasn't terribly practical. It had a lot of components that 167 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: we actually associate with modern sewing machines. So it had 168 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: the arm with the needle, it had continuous thread from 169 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: a spool, uh, and it had a table set up 170 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: that the cloth would sit on. And those all still 171 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 1: persist in some form or another. But his is a 172 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: case where there's no actual example of his machine having 173 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: been built, although in eighteen seventy three Newton Wilson, who 174 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: was from Great Britain, found the plans and he did 175 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: build this machine, but it did not work. And this 176 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: is one of those ones that we talked about a 177 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: little bit ago, where the suspicion is that he didn't 178 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: entirely disclose what he was getting. Leave a few things 179 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,239 Speaker 1: out of the patent design so that folks don't automatically 180 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: go out there and actually start making one uh. One 181 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: thing about patents, by the way, there's no guarantee that 182 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: your design has to work. It has to it has 183 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: to be reasonably you know, the people at the patent 184 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: office that have to reasonably believe that you you believe 185 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: it will work the way you've designed it, but you 186 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 1: don't have to prove Yeah, there's not a proofing stage design. Yeah, 187 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: you don't have to bring one in and say, well here, 188 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: let me put it in motion and show you that 189 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: all the parts move the way I've described it in 190 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 1: the patent. It really is just meant to prevent other 191 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: people from making that same design without your permission. All right. Well, 192 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: then in four we've got this story about Thomas Stone 193 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: and James Henderson who were issued a patent in France 194 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: for their own kind of sewing machine. Right. Yeah, it 195 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: kind of created an overcast stitch. So if you don't 196 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 1: know what that is, I do not. Um. If you 197 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: see like a situation where two pieces of cloth are 198 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: bound together and there's a stitch that passes through each 199 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: one and kind of spirals around the edges and then 200 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: back through, that's an overcast okay, all right, Um, so 201 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: this was similar. It's also called a whip stitch when 202 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: you do it by hand, so it's very simple. But 203 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: it could work on all different kinds of fabrics, and 204 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: it was able to stitch curves. Okay, So it's not 205 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: just a straight line like some of the other device 206 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: as we'll be talking about. Correct, Like a lot of 207 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: them will only go in a straight line, but this 208 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: one could handle curves. The one big drawback of it though, 209 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: was that it did not have a continuous thread feed, 210 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: so there was a lot of stopping and going and 211 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: re threading of needles and treating. So it saved time, 212 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: we think theoretically, I say that with a question mark 213 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: on purpose. Right, maybe it saves time for someone who 214 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: just really hates the motion of actually making a stitch well, 215 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 1: or if you're doing like large scale things like leathers 216 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 1: and probably help. So that same year you have John 217 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: Duncan of Glasgow here patenting an embroidery machine, which is 218 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: not quite the same thing as a stitching machine, correct. 219 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: I mean it does do stitches, but it's not the 220 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: same sort of utilitarian things that would hold together pants. Right, 221 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: we'll just make the pants beautiful. I've learned that through 222 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 1: a better experience. In seven we have Edward Walter Chapman 223 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: and Walter Chapman. It's not confusing at all receiving a 224 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 1: British patent three seven eight. That's another thing that I 225 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: think is interesting. You look at the history of sewing 226 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: machines and you look at those patent numbers and when 227 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: they're still in the four digit range. That's incredible. If 228 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: guys go to the patent I'll go to like Google 229 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: search for patents and look up any patent that's been 230 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: issued over the last couple of years. We're talking in 231 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: the millions here. Yeah, and this is when they were 232 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: still in the thousands, which is pretty incredible. It really 233 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: does show that the patent industry here was very young. 234 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,559 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this was the one that allowed a machine 235 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: that had a needle that would not have to pass 236 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: all the way through the fabric. It could just puncture it, 237 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: uh slightly and then pull back out and make the 238 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,440 Speaker 1: stitch that way, right, which is how modern machines still 239 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: work for the most part. I think there's a couple 240 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: of specialty machines that do different things. But yeah, so 241 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: it had two needles. One, as you said, punched in 242 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: and passed the thread down. Another kind of shuttled through 243 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: it and then it got pulled back up. So um, 244 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: continuous stitching via these two different threads feeds cool. And 245 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: then we have my favorite name on our list. It's 246 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: one of my favorites eight thirty so it's bartelling me Timonier. 247 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 1: I love a good French name. Yeah, that's a great one, 248 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: as there's two th in there and as I a 249 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: call that's a hard tea, but I could be wrong. 250 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: It is it is, and his machine made a chain stitch. 251 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 1: And there are still machines very similar to this functioning today. 252 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,599 Speaker 1: They're not used a whole lot because it's one of 253 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:29,319 Speaker 1: those things. You may have even come across them periodically. 254 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,559 Speaker 1: If you ever have, like an article of clothing it's 255 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: maybe not super pricy. You may be bought it, you know, 256 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 1: a cheap store, and you pull one thread and the 257 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: whole thing starts coming out. That's often a chain stitch 258 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: because it's the one thread holding everything together, so there's 259 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: nothing stopping it from continuing to unravel. Right, That's what 260 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: I always get nervous now whenever I see a loose thread. 261 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 1: And I'm more of a snipper than a than a tugger. 262 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm a yanker, okay, but I know I 263 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: can fix it if it all goes right. Yeah, for me, 264 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: it's it's fixing means going out and buying a new one. 265 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: So well. I love about the story is it's interesting 266 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 1: because it's a real life story that mirrors something that 267 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: is um a popular misconception. And what I mean by 268 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: that is in the story you have Toumonnier who had 269 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 1: a shop in Paris. Uh. He had lots of these 270 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: different machines, eighty of them working at a time, and 271 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: Taylor's people, who sewed by hand, stormed his store and 272 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: destroyed some of the machinery because they didn't want to 273 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: be put out of a job. And the reason why 274 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: I say this is interesting is that there's a story 275 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 1: that we have told on tech stuff before that is 276 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: erroneous and uh. And in fact I have been guilty 277 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: of of pushing this forward. The idea of sabotage being 278 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: named after sabo, as in the French word for shoe, 279 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: The story is that you had uh. Often it was 280 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: told about weavers who came in and threw their shoes 281 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: into large mechanized loom in order to foul the workings 282 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: and destroy them. As it turns out, that's not necessarily true. 283 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: The first the first appearance of the word sabotage doesn't 284 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: come until in the written word, as far as I 285 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: can tell, until which tells me that this incident, which 286 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: happened in around the mid eighteen hundreds, could have given 287 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: birth to a word involving tailors that would have replaced sabotage, 288 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: and they just didn't capitalize on it. I wanted to 289 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 1: include Timonier somehow I got totally Timoniate today at work, 290 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: locked in and they just ambushed me. Yeah. So they 291 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: came and destroyed his shop and he had to flee. 292 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: And he did get financial backing, uh so that he 293 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: could continue his work and develop new machines. But unfortunately 294 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: uh and he got some additional patents as well, both 295 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: in France and in Britain. But the revolution kind of 296 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 1: caused his legacy to get put on the back burner. 297 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: It turns out some important things that people were attending 298 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: to at the time. Yeah, not so much with the 299 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 1: let's make machines. Now we've got an American inventor coming 300 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: up next, so let's just take a moment to go America. Well, 301 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: and he becomes very important in the patent battles. So 302 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: this is Walter Hunt you're talking about here. Yeah. So 303 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: he made a machine that it created a lock stitch. 304 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: It used to thread sources, very similar to the bobbing 305 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 1: and school method you would see on modern machines. UM 306 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: and this, you know, of course, was different than the 307 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: single thread chain stitch of Timoni successful machines. And he 308 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: kind of was a busy bee. He had a lot 309 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: of inventions going at the same time, and so it 310 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 1: wasn't like this sewing machine was his baby and he 311 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: had really put his heart and soul into it. He 312 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: was kind of like, no, no, he's ever gonna be 313 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: interested in this, and he sold it. So he sold 314 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: the patent off to He didn't even have the patent. 315 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: He just sold I go that's right, he didn't even 316 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: patent this invention. Yeah, I could use the money. He 317 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: sold it to a man named George A Arrowsmith and 318 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: was basically like, yeah, well, you know, all fund some 319 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: other projects with whatever I make off of this. It's 320 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 1: not that important. Um. As we said, he comes up 321 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: later and becomes very important to remember him. And we'll 322 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: also point out his machine was one that Jonathan referenced 323 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: earlier that would only go in straight lines. You couldn't 324 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 1: really work curves with it, right, so that that certainly 325 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: limits its usefulness. Uh. Now, we also have to acknowledge 326 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:29,040 Speaker 1: the fact that there's a challenge in really talking about 327 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: the history of the sewing machine because of the event 328 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: that happened in that the mid eighteen hundreds, early to 329 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: mid eighteen hundreds. Yeah, we had a little bit of 330 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: a fire in the patent office. As it turns out, 331 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: patents are flammable. Yes, no one had patented the the 332 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: the not the inflammable that would also be flammable, but 333 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: the impossible to burn patent. Yeah, And it wasn't a 334 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: time where they were making tons of backups. It was 335 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: kind of like, you file it and you go on 336 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 1: your way. Because we're still in the thousands, they haven't 337 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: really gotten their game figured out yet, right, not to 338 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: mention the fact that they're making making duplicates is is 339 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: no easy task at this time, so they thought, well 340 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 1: it's safe enough. Yeah, that fire was in eighteen thirty six, 341 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,160 Speaker 1: so they really did not have a plan in place 342 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: to keep duplicate copies. And as a consequence, there are 343 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: actually a lot some sources will say that there are 344 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: a lot of kind of partial patent documents that still 345 00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: exists that like they mentioned a needle, or they mentioned 346 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: something sewing related, but like the attribution portion of the 347 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: document has been too damaged and they don't know who 348 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: filed it. So there could be families out there that 349 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,480 Speaker 1: could have, for all we know, inherited great wealth. But 350 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: we'll never know because the capriciousness of fire robbed them 351 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,640 Speaker 1: of their place in history. Fire and it's ways possibly 352 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: on Martha's vineyard. In eighteen forty two, we've got John J. Greenoff, 353 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: who is the first guy, first American, to get a 354 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: patent for the sewing machine that we have a record 355 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: of anyway. Um. So even though he made his invention 356 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: after Hunt had, Hunt had not patented it, and as 357 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,280 Speaker 1: you have in your notes here, the Aerosmith apparently never 358 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 1: got around to patenting it either. So, uh, this is 359 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: the first one in the American patent system. Yeah, he 360 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: there was no replication of his He basically kind of 361 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: was one and done. Yes, so he made a prototype 362 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 1: and then not a production model. Yeah, there's we don't 363 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: know if he didn't get funding, orf he just abandoned 364 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: the idea and moved on to something else. But it 365 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: was only a year later when the second U. S. 366 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: Patent for a sewing machine came about, and that was 367 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 1: issued to Benjamin W. Bean which is a great name, 368 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: I know. Um, And he created a unique development and 369 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: that his machine was the first that actually fed the 370 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,359 Speaker 1: fabrics through gears. So for the stitchers in the house, 371 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: all three of us. UM, that's similar to feed dogs. 372 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 1: And if you don't stitch what a feed dog is. 373 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:52,919 Speaker 1: If you've ever looked at a sewing machine, you may 374 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: see these two. They almost look like little feet that 375 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: come up and kind of kick at your fabric as 376 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: you're sewing, and they have rigid edges and that's kind 377 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 1: to pulling your fabric through as you go right, so 378 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,800 Speaker 1: you don't have to put through as much effort, you 379 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: don't have to worry about misguiding the fabric. So it 380 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: helps feed the fabric through as you're stitching. Yes, sometimes 381 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: it creates great drama and it eats fabric, but not 382 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: very often. UM and his also had a clamp mechanism 383 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: to attach it to a table, so that was also 384 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: a new development. Uh, and there are still machines made 385 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 1: to do that. Also that year, in eighteen forty three, 386 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: we got George H. Corliss, who uh you know, he 387 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: was also a busy body making making a steam engine. 388 00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. We did a full episode and tech 389 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: stuff on steam engine. So if you guys are are 390 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: big into that and you really want to know about 391 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: the development of the steam engine. Here's here's an interesting 392 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: little fact. The original steam engines didn't push with steam. 393 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: They rather would pull by letting steam condense and create 394 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: a vacuum, thus pulling a piston down rather than pushing 395 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: a piston out. But we go into full detail and 396 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: tech stuff, so I don't need to redo the whole thing. 397 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: This peace It is exciting. It's actually not cool, it's 398 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: actually quite hot. But but ump ump so Corless had 399 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 1: what's considered the third u S sewing machine patents. His 400 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: performed what is called a saddle stitch, which is a 401 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:18,200 Speaker 1: specialized stitch that's used to this day to join leather together. Uh. 402 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: It kind of keeps it all stable. If anybody has 403 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: ever tried to sew with leather, if you've had like 404 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: a leather pouch or anything, Uh, it can present some 405 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 1: challenges in terms of how it because it's so rugged 406 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: usually and tough, it will chew on threads and or 407 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: even if you have a lacing, the lacing even though 408 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: it's leather, also we'll kind of get chewed up over time. 409 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: So a saddle stitch kind of gives you a tighter 410 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: stitch and it prevents some of that friction. Okay, cool. 411 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: And then also just a year later, in eighteen forty four, 412 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: we've got James Rogers getting the fourth US sewing machine pen. 413 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: And you may all wonder why we're covering every single patent. 414 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: The paton wars will make all clear. Everybody's gonna be 415 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: really apparent in an it's it's it's important because again 416 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 1: we're trying to illustrate the fact that a lot of 417 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: these patents were not revolutionary devices that completely reinvented the machine. 418 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,640 Speaker 1: They were sometimes incremental improvements that had a remarkable difference 419 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: from earlier machines, but it was one tiny element, right, 420 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 1: not necessarily a full reworking. Yeah. So yeah, James Rogers 421 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 1: patent was really only had a tiny change to beans design, 422 00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: and that was that the gears were kind of in 423 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 1: a different place and that allowed him to be able 424 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: to design a different needle that was shaped a little 425 00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: more simply and would be easier to replicate um. And 426 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: so pretty much every patent that came after this used 427 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: this simpler set up that built on Bean's design, So 428 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,959 Speaker 1: it really set a precedent here. But now we're going 429 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: to the star of the show. Okay, who's the star 430 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: of the show because not being a big sewing machine guy. 431 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: But you watch Schoolhouse Rock growing up? Right? I did? 432 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 1: He was in it? Was he? Yeah? In the Mother 433 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: Necessity episode, I'll have to go watch my DVDs. Alias 434 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,239 Speaker 1: can you help me with my selling? So it's an 435 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,680 Speaker 1: alias here we're talking about Elias how Jr. All right, 436 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 1: And there's even a play on his name where he 437 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: tells her he's gonna fix everything and she says Alias 438 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: how And it's very witty to the selling nerds, right, 439 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: all three of you, three of us. So Elias Howe 440 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: was born in Spencer, Massachusetts in eighteen nineteen. Uh and 441 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: when he was a teenager, he decided to go and 442 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: seek his fortune as a machinist, which was a brand 443 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 1: new job in the Industrial Revolution. Yeah, he was kind 444 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: of he had some bravado. He was not afraid of 445 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: kind of breaking out on his own and making his 446 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: way in the world. He certainly didn't appear to be 447 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: shy once we get into that, noars Now he was 448 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 1: a very smart man. Yeah, so he's going to he 449 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 1: ends up as a machinist. Overhearing some talk about the 450 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: idea of of a sewing machine and starts to kind 451 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: of apply his own ingenuity, how would I achieve this 452 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 1: sort of thing? So he's important to remember, yeah and 453 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: he um So he was granted the fifth U S 454 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: patent in September of eighteen forty six. And it's one 455 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: of those things that I have to laugh because every 456 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: year when September comes around, you see the today on 457 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: this day, Alias how invented the sewing machine, and I'm like, 458 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: back up the truck. Not entirely accurate, right, It's like 459 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,720 Speaker 1: like you know, as An invented the light bulb, all right, No, 460 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: as an improved and it's not a Eureka moment where 461 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: it comes from nowhere, although he did sometimes say that 462 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: like he had it kind of fully universally on his own. 463 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 1: That's very tesla like to ya. Um. So, this was 464 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: patent number of four thousand, seven fifty in the United States, 465 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,120 Speaker 1: you know the previous one we gave. The number two 466 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: was the British patent. So in both cases you see 467 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: that these are very very early on during the patent 468 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,120 Speaker 1: offices existence. Yeah, they're numbering schemes were kind of neck 469 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: and neck in terms of where they were at in 470 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: terms of um uh accession order. UM. So this patent 471 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: was actually his second version of the machine that he patented. 472 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: He had another prototype a year before that was capable 473 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,720 Speaker 1: of sewing, but he UM he fine tuned it a 474 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: little bit more. And house patent is very important because 475 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: it makes five very specific claims about how the machine 476 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 1: is going to work, and they come up a lot 477 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: in court battles like yeah, so this is where I 478 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: was talking about how you can make claims within a 479 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 1: patent and those claims will protect elements of your invention. 480 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:47,199 Speaker 1: And claims can be everything from specific physical uh mechanical 481 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: ways that the machine works to UH specific method like 482 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: an implementation. We see that today in ways that are 483 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: are less um. They're they're more difficult to understand because 484 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: if you're talking about a physical machine, you can say 485 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 1: the physical machine does it in this way, and you 486 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: can see whether or not the machine is actually doing 487 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 1: it in that way. When we talk about today, we're 488 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:14,320 Speaker 1: talking about stuff like you know, resizing images by pinching 489 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: or or moving your fingers further apart from each other, 490 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,320 Speaker 1: and it starts to get a little wibbly wobbly time 491 00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: you whiney when you are trying to say, oh, well, 492 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: this is this is a method that is unique that 493 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: I came up with, and no one else can use 494 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: it unless they come through me. That's uh, it's one 495 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 1: of those evolutions of the patent office that we're still 496 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: trying to kind of reconcile. Yeah, it's not all black 497 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: and white, which is why you get into these huge 498 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: battles and arguments and things go to court and you 499 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: hear about Apple having to pay money, but then Samsung 500 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: has to fail the money, right, Yeah, and sometimes it 501 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: just sometimes everyone just ends up like, well, let's just 502 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: all say we gave each other the money when we 503 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: were supposed to and call today. But anyway, there were 504 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: these five elements. Did you to cover any of them? 505 00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: You have all of them written out here they are, 506 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: and they're written out long because I cut and pasted 507 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: it from another document, but I'll kind of do the 508 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,959 Speaker 1: short version. So the first was he describes how he's 509 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: going to form a seam by using a curve needle 510 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: to go through the cloth and um a bobbin to 511 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: kind of connect to that and and make the stitch, 512 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,840 Speaker 1: similar to how we've talked about before this to thread version. 513 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: The second is how the thread is going to get 514 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: lifted and pass through the needle eye. There's a lifting 515 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,239 Speaker 1: rod involved. That's very important. The third is how the 516 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: thread is going to be passed out by the shuttles, 517 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:38,959 Speaker 1: So it has a lot to do with the tension 518 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: and how it passes through at a consistent rate. The 519 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: fourth is um how a couple of levers go together 520 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: and enact. They're sort of mechanisms on the string or 521 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,679 Speaker 1: the thread that's involved. And the fifth is how the 522 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: cloth is held in place by a baster plate, uh, 523 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: which is still a thing that happens like now, if 524 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: you drop your foot down on your machine, it's kind 525 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: of pressing the cloth onto the plate of your machine. 526 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: That's that keeps it from going just flying away when 527 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 1: you're trying to stitch on it right, very important as 528 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: I understand it, in the sewing process. Yes, most machines 529 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: made today won't won't stitch at all if you don't 530 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: have to press your foot down because they know they'll 531 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: just be wasting everyone's time. So how didn't meet with 532 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: immediate success with this design? Actually, he tried for a 533 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 1: while to get people here in the United States excited 534 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: about it, and no one seemed to really give him 535 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: much attention. So he ended up selling the patent rights 536 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: to a or at least the British patent rights, I 537 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: should say, to William Thomas, for the princely sum of 538 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: two fifty British pounds sterling. Uh and uh, I like 539 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: I like the other. Note here he also adapted his 540 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: machine to make umbrellas and corsets. That's fabulous, yeah, I 541 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: mean I'm in the market for both right now. So well, 542 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 1: when we talked about this on History, Tracy was saying, 543 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,920 Speaker 1: I never thought about it before, but umbrella's, of course, 544 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 1: it's really are quite a lot alike. And that you know, 545 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: you have a casing and you have these rigid elements 546 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: that pass through it and hold it all in shape. 547 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: And at this point it would have been all steelbone, 548 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: course tree. So it was very similar to an umbrella, right, 549 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: except that the main difference, at least in my experience, 550 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: is that it's a relief to have an umbrella and 551 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: a relief to get rid of a corset. So don't 552 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: get it started. Of course, it's are good for you 553 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: if they're well fitted. They protect your back, they give 554 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: you a great posture. Those tight lasers are a whole 555 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: different universe. Yeah, I worked at the Georgia Renaissance Festival, 556 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 1: so I have a very specific experience of watching ladies. Know, 557 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: a good foundation courset will keep your clothes in place, 558 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: it holds up all those Victorian layers if it's a 559 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: Victorian courset. So I'm kind of going from the time 560 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 1: period we're talking about. They're they're not mystery torture devices. 561 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 1: Well really were not intended for that. You will clearly 562 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: need to have you come in and give a talk 563 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: because because those ladies, let me tell there is a 564 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: lot of technology and physics and a courset I'm either 565 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: got to support from below or from above. Its fabulous. Well, 566 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: moving on in the the evolution of the sewing machine, 567 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: we move up to eighteen forty eight and the sixth 568 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: US sewing machine patent from John A. Bradshaw, which was 569 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: a little bit snarky. Yeah, he talks about How's patent 570 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: design in his patent and kind of says that it's 571 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: bungling and it's an incumbrance to the action of the 572 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: machine when he talks about the needle. So not only 573 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,920 Speaker 1: can How not get manufacturers interested in his device, he 574 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: has the next uh, patent uh petitioner completely dis him, 575 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: totally trash in his work. Even while he's building on it, 576 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: he's still kind of like he was onto something, but 577 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,280 Speaker 1: I really have this thing figured out, Like okay, well 578 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: I can tell you why it didn't do great when 579 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:58,360 Speaker 1: the manufacturers wonderful. So eighteen nine we get how coming 580 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: back to the United States, he had gone to England, 581 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: like we said to say, to sell the British patent off. 582 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: And when he comes back he sees that that that 583 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: what had been kind of a quiet, little tiny niche 584 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: industry was starting to take off. Yeah, the seventh patent 585 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: for the sowing machine have been issued to Charles Morey 586 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: and Joseph B. Johnson in eighteen forty nine, and they 587 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: were really some of the first two that were like, 588 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: we need to start selling this and making a bunch 589 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,959 Speaker 1: of them. And even before they received their patent, they 590 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: were selling machines, which is perfectly fine. I mean, it's 591 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: not like you don't have to have a In fact, 592 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: you often we'll see today things like patent pending where 593 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: people are trying to capitalize on an idea because patent 594 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: applications and patent grants can take a long time, especially 595 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:51,000 Speaker 1: today now that you have uh, you know, an exponentially 596 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,959 Speaker 1: larger number of applications coming into the patent office than 597 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: you did way back in the mid eighteen hundreds. Yeah, 598 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: there were some other people that were trying to improve 599 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: on more and Johnson's machine in the middle of eighteen 600 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: forty nine. So that same year they got their patent, 601 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,560 Speaker 1: there was a man named Jotham s Conan, and he 602 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: was issued a patent based on a modification he made 603 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: to their machine, which just kind of altered the way 604 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,200 Speaker 1: that the cloth was held during the stitching. But his 605 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: never really went anywhere. He didn't manufacture, he didn't sell. 606 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: But that same day that he got his patent, another 607 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: important person was getting a patent, John Batch Elder. So yeah, 608 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: this was the continuous sewing mechanism and at an endless 609 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,160 Speaker 1: belt to feed the cloth into the machine. Yeah, thank you, John, 610 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: to make sure that you don't have to put in 611 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: all that work yourself. Yeah, But the really important thing 612 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: is who Batch Older sold his patent too. And here 613 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: we come up to the first name in this podcast 614 00:32:54,200 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: that I recognize. I am Singer the Singer sewing machine. 615 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: Everybody knows that one. Well, I mean you know, my 616 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: my my grandmother and my my mom both had singer 617 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: sewing machines. In fact that there's the both of them 618 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: still exist. And my parents it's us it's like a 619 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: little uh table that's next to the front door of 620 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: their house. But it's an old singer sewing machine that 621 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: that's operated by by pedal. Uh So, yeah, it's that's 622 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: the one of those names that I think most people 623 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,720 Speaker 1: associate it with sewing pretty quick. Yeah, yeah, because I 624 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: mean it's still a name. So yep, they're still making. 625 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: You don't hear about a lot of how machines these days, 626 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 1: but the singers still going. So now we're to the 627 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: argument phase. We finally reached the point now where things 628 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,000 Speaker 1: have come to ahead. We've got the the snippy little 629 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: patent applications out of the way. Now it's time to 630 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: really get down to fisticuffs legally speaking. And uh, it's 631 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,800 Speaker 1: the eighteen fifties where we get that first enormous patent war. 632 00:33:58,200 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: And it all has to do with the fact that 633 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 1: these different little elements that have been improved upon over time, 634 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,200 Speaker 1: there were a lot of arguments about who actually had 635 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:12,600 Speaker 1: ownership of those ideas and in what implementations and who 636 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: was owed money by whom? And it got ugly, really 637 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: really ugly. So there was a a man by the 638 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 1: name of Allan B. Wilson, and he in eighteen fifty 639 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: was working on this lockstitch machine very similar to the 640 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: modern machine, and his mechanism could also go forward and backwards, 641 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: which we had not encountered before. Uh. And he applied 642 00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 1: for his patent. He had made a second prototype model, 643 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: and the people that owned the brand shop patent from 644 00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,400 Speaker 1: eight got wind of this and we're like, hold on 645 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: a minute, Portovore. Uh, we owned some of the concepts 646 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,720 Speaker 1: you're using. The double pointed shuttle that made up a 647 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: part of his machine was something that was part of 648 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:55,040 Speaker 1: their patent, uh, they claimed, And that claim was not accurate. 649 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,600 Speaker 1: It was complete bunk. So however, they think, well, let's 650 00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:01,880 Speaker 1: throw a wrench into this one. However, they had dollars 651 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 1: and Wilson didn't, so he could not fight them. So 652 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: we get down to using the old idea of well, 653 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: if if we can't, if we can't suppress this idea, 654 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 1: one way, we can just kind of run them out 655 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: because we've got we've got a larger reserve of cash. Yes, 656 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 1: so uh, he had to give up half of his 657 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: claim to A P. Kline and Edward Lee, who at 658 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: that point held the Bradshaw patent, and that was in 659 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 1: late fifty in November, and then after a little while 660 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: he just sold them the rest of his interest. He 661 00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: didn't want to mess with it anymore. He retained very 662 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: limited rights. That's a very sad story there where essentially 663 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: he was beaten down. Yeah, he really had the goods 664 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: in terms of his invention to have been the singer 665 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: of this story in terms of name recognition, but because 666 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,560 Speaker 1: he just didn't have the means to fight anybody that 667 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 1: made a claim against him and vanished into history and 668 00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,959 Speaker 1: to upsalted to the wound, they would use his name 669 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: in official advertisement. Yeah, people recognize that he had invented 670 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:06,439 Speaker 1: something really pretty exciting because it could do these things 671 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,040 Speaker 1: that previous machines couldn't, And so their advertisements went A B. 672 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: Wilson's sewing Machine, the best and only practical sewing machine, 673 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 1: not larger than a ladies workbox, for the trifling sum 674 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: of thirty five dollars. So not only does he not 675 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: get the benefit of actually owning this device that he invented, 676 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: he then has the indignity of having his name used 677 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: in the advertising while this other company makes money off 678 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: of it. Yeah, he really did get shafted. So meanwhile, 679 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: we've got to lie as How who He's no dummy, No, 680 00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 1: he's witnessing this and realizing some stuff is going down. 681 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,359 Speaker 1: Maybe I need to kind of circle my little my 682 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: proverbial wagons here. So he decides that he's going to 683 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: protect the rights to royalties from his inventions. Uh, and 684 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:58,360 Speaker 1: anything that could trace elements of the products being sold 685 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,040 Speaker 1: back to one of his patent right, Yeah, and from 686 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: the Branshaw model on. They really were working on How's 687 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: machine and kind of making twee tweaks to that. Uh. 688 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 1: And then he really got angry because he saw Isaac 689 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:16,959 Speaker 1: Singer's one of Isaac Singer's sons demonstrating their sewing machine. Yeah, 690 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: and uh he said, huh, some of these elements look 691 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,600 Speaker 1: awfully familiar. So of course he ends up doing the 692 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: responsible thing, you know. He contacts Singer and says, um, actually, 693 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: I own the patent for this this machinery, this particular 694 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 1: piece that you're using, and so by law, um, I 695 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 1: should really receive a royalty payment because you're you're using 696 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 1: it in your device and otherwise not not compensating me 697 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 1: for it, and so um, I'd really like that two 698 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,560 Speaker 1: thousand dollars you owe me, and Singer, being the very 699 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: level headed professional businessman, uh, decided to um physically threaten How. Yeah. 700 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: He Singer was known for having a really bad temper. 701 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,040 Speaker 1: He did some really seedy things just in business outside 702 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 1: of this, and when it came to this, there was 703 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: one incident where he allegedly threatened and nearly threw how 704 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,359 Speaker 1: down the steps outside his office. Like there were fisticuffs. 705 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't just yelling and through lawyers, they were physically 706 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: I get the feeling that Singer is very much like 707 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: the character from from Parts of the Caribbean who just says, 708 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, they're more like guidelines. It's he's he's not 709 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 1: not really one to necessarily be too concerned with the 710 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: actual rules of law. You know that actor that plays 711 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,280 Speaker 1: Jackomi Gibb would make a great Isaac Singer. He would. 712 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: But How did a super smart thing. This is where 713 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: we really realized that this man was just really smart 714 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: and very widely so. He like some of these previous 715 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: sad stories, really didn't have a lot of money to 716 00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: get into a lot of legal battles, but he figured 717 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 1: is not a way to finance some litigation. He sells 718 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,839 Speaker 1: half of his interest in his patent to a man 719 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: named George Bliss, and Bliss manufactured machines. He built them 720 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:12,840 Speaker 1: as being House patent, even though they were pretty different 721 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: from House initial design. But the money that How made 722 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,840 Speaker 1: off of this partnership was basically put into his litigation 723 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: machine and he just started fighting people. Oh got you so, 724 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: So what he was doing was he had made this partnership. 725 00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,360 Speaker 1: He was making money off the partnership. Bliss is making 726 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:30,000 Speaker 1: money because of How's name. How is making money because 727 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: of the partnership with Bliss. He ends up spending that 728 00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: money directly on lawyers to attack people who are actually 729 00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: infringing upon his patents. Yeah, he went after Singer with 730 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,480 Speaker 1: great vigor, But there were a lot of other people 731 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,399 Speaker 1: that were also in this mix. Uh, two of them 732 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: Laroux and Blodgett. That we're a pair, that we're making 733 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,520 Speaker 1: a firm, that we're making machines that he thought infringed. 734 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: There was actually a judgment in that case in House 735 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 1: favor that was the first one to be settled and 736 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: once it, it was like the first of the doma knows, 737 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: because then everybody else kind of panicked. It went, oh, wow, 738 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:03,960 Speaker 1: he really has a case. Right. When you've got a 739 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: precedent set like that, then the it becomes clear that's 740 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,160 Speaker 1: going to get harder and harder to win a case. Uh, 741 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: you know when a defense against such a claim. If 742 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: a claim has already been held up in court in 743 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 1: one instance, then the fear is that it will be 744 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: the same in future ones. And it's cheaper to settle 745 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: it is to go through the process and then maybe 746 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,920 Speaker 1: have to be forced to hand over a larger reward 747 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 1: in a court decision. Yeah, and how is basically happy 748 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 1: to any settlements be like, okay, let's set up a license. 749 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 1: Like he was willing to deal with them. It wasn't 750 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: like he wanted to prevent other people from making their machine. 751 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: This is very different from today when we were talking 752 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: about similarities. But today we got a lot of what 753 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: we call them patentrols. These are the folks who will 754 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:53,040 Speaker 1: get a patent and then either they don't make anything 755 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:55,520 Speaker 1: on their own, or they make something very very tiny, 756 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: and then they just kind of sit around and wait 757 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: for folks to infringe upon them. They threatened litigation in 758 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: hopes of a settlement. Um. But but what a lot 759 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:08,000 Speaker 1: of people have said about the recent patent wars is 760 00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: that the patent system needs to create an incentive for 761 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 1: patent holders to license their ideas for royalties, which is 762 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: exactly what hal was doing back in this day. Yeah. 763 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:21,239 Speaker 1: I mean he really saw the benefit of like, hey, 764 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: it would be a pain in the took us for 765 00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,880 Speaker 1: me to set up my own manufacturing plant and be 766 00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,359 Speaker 1: churning these out. But all these people are already set up. 767 00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: I can just cut deals with them. Everybody wins. Yeah, 768 00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: except not so much. No, No, I got it got 769 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,240 Speaker 1: ugly again. Apparently Singer was not done. Yeah, he didn't settle, 770 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,919 Speaker 1: and so that case dragged on. Yeah, and it got 771 00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,760 Speaker 1: ugly in public. To write you got this great little 772 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,000 Speaker 1: story about to to advertisements that ran on the same 773 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:52,879 Speaker 1: page of the New York Daily Tribune, but tell very 774 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: different stories. Yeah, the first one reads the sewing machine. 775 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,879 Speaker 1: It has been recently decided by the United States Court 776 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: that Elias how Junior of number three zero five Broadway 777 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: was the originator of the sewing machine now extensively used 778 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: call at his office and see forty of them in 779 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: constant use upon cloth, whether, etcetera, and judge for yourselves 780 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:17,520 Speaker 1: as to their practicality. Also see a certified copy from 781 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 1: the records of the United States Court of the injunction 782 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:24,840 Speaker 1: against Singers machine so called, which is conclusive. You that 783 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,480 Speaker 1: want sewing machines be cautious how you purchase them of 784 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,799 Speaker 1: others than him or those licensed under him, else the 785 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: law will compel you to pay twice over. Meanwhile, we 786 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:40,240 Speaker 1: have the other advertisement sewing machines. For the last two years, 787 00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: Elias how Junior of Massachusetts, has been threatening suits and 788 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: injunctions against all the world who make, use or sells 789 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,200 Speaker 1: sewing machines. We have sold many machines, are selling them rapidly, 790 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,600 Speaker 1: and have good right to sell them. The public do 791 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: not acknowledge Mr Howe's pretensions, and for the best reasons. 792 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: One machines made according to House patent are of no 793 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,799 Speaker 1: practical use. He tried several years without being able to 794 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: introduce one. Too. It is notorious, especially in New York, 795 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 1: that how was not the original inventor of the machine 796 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: combining the needle and shuttle, and that his claim to 797 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:22,399 Speaker 1: that is not valid. Finally, we make and sell the 798 00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 1: best sewing machines. So yeah, there's um, there's some vitriolic 799 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,360 Speaker 1: I love how It's it's like a sewing machine telenovela. 800 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of soap opera going on here. And 801 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,120 Speaker 1: to make it even more soap opera ish, How went 802 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: after Singer for libel. But he also went after the 803 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:44,680 Speaker 1: New York Daily Tribune for printing his advertisement in the 804 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,720 Speaker 1: first place. So we now have How going after Singer 805 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,759 Speaker 1: both for patent infringement and for libel. Yeah, fantastic, just 806 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: to make their relationship that much more delightful and huggy. 807 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 1: So at this point Singer, Singer wakes up and just 808 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: as you know, you know you were right, I was wrong, 809 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,040 Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna be the bigger man walk away right, 810 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,399 Speaker 1: not even a little. He instead just kind of goes 811 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 1: into a rage suitable to be played only by Daniel 812 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:18,080 Speaker 1: day Lewis. Besides, he's going to destroy How totally. He 813 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:21,799 Speaker 1: decides he is going to seek out every scrap of 814 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: evidence on earth. He even sought out sources in Europe 815 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:31,520 Speaker 1: and China to prove that house design was not original. Uh. 816 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 1: And the key here is that the wording in House 817 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 1: patent was really his protection because he had patented the 818 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,480 Speaker 1: combination of the shuttle and the one I and the 819 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: I pointed needle and how they would work together. But 820 00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,759 Speaker 1: he never claimed to have invented either of those elements, 821 00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 1: and so his patent remained accurate and correct and not 822 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: infringing on anyone else because he didn't say I invented 823 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: the needle sho. He said I invented this combination of 824 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,400 Speaker 1: these two elements that work in this particular way, and 825 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:05,080 Speaker 1: that is completely valid patent law. So again, if you 826 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,359 Speaker 1: come up with a new way to use existing technology 827 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,240 Speaker 1: that you can claim as an improvement over others, there's 828 00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,719 Speaker 1: nothing stopping you from getting a patent on that. Yeah, 829 00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,279 Speaker 1: you can patent an interaction of things. They don't have 830 00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:22,080 Speaker 1: to be physical things necessarily. However, if you remember back 831 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: when we talked about Walter Hunt, who was the guy 832 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: who invented a pretty workable sewing machine but then kind 833 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,880 Speaker 1: of sold it off and abandoned it, Yeah, he never 834 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,279 Speaker 1: he never patented his particular idea. Singer found him, of course, 835 00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: because he thought that was his best shot at bringing 836 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,560 Speaker 1: How down and showing that HOW is not in fact 837 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: the first person to invent a working sewing machine. So 838 00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: he I guess he just wanted to retroactively magically get 839 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: a precursor patent that couldn't have existed because William Hunt 840 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:55,080 Speaker 1: never patented his detention. That is exactly what he tried 841 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,520 Speaker 1: to do. So this this reminds me. I mean, they're 842 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 1: they're in tire books written about some of the more 843 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,440 Speaker 1: ridiculous things that have happened in patent law around the world, 844 00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,719 Speaker 1: but particularly in the United States. So another good example 845 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 1: of some shenanigans that went on with patents involves Tesla 846 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:17,640 Speaker 1: and Radio. Because Tesla was awarded the patent the United 847 00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:22,080 Speaker 1: States uh the same year that Marconi actually filed for 848 00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: a patent. In fact, he received the patent a month 849 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:27,360 Speaker 1: before or two months before Marconi had filed for a 850 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,080 Speaker 1: patent in the US, and then famously, several years later 851 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: the Patent Office awarded they went back on their decision, 852 00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,239 Speaker 1: took the patent away from Tesla and awarded it to Marconi. 853 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: So even though that happens later, you know this this 854 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,799 Speaker 1: the events we're talking about here are earlier in the timeline. 855 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: It's not unusual for us to see these kind of 856 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,759 Speaker 1: crazy political dealings. Yeah, and again remembered, Uh, you know, 857 00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,600 Speaker 1: this wasn't a time when everything was duplicated and there 858 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,479 Speaker 1: was a trail of what had happened, when it would 859 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: be easy to fudge things. So it's it's reasonable that 860 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,359 Speaker 1: Singer could think that he was going to finagle something 861 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,360 Speaker 1: out of this. So what what happens due to this 862 00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: this claim? Well, first Singer hires an engineer, William Whiting, uh, 863 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:18,319 Speaker 1: to basically help resurrect Hunt's designs. He's gonna go back 864 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: to those original blueprints and schematics and he's going to 865 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,760 Speaker 1: build it to prove that this one works and it's great, 866 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 1: and how you got nothing? Uh? And uh. The Scientific 867 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,000 Speaker 1: American at the time, as this was all bubbling up, 868 00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:41,400 Speaker 1: actually published a pretty uh scathing article about Hunt, asserting 869 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 1: because he was like, oh yeah, I did invent the 870 00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: sewing machine. Now that he sees that there's money in 871 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,799 Speaker 1: it and this is a litigious thing, they basically said 872 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: that his claims were rusty, He didn't he had no 873 00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,359 Speaker 1: hat in this game, Like what was he trying to do? Basis? Really? 874 00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,080 Speaker 1: But there was a trial at the patent office. There 875 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,640 Speaker 1: were hundreds of pages of testing mony I mean it 876 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,520 Speaker 1: went on forever. Singer dragged everybody in that he could 877 00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 1: think of that had ever touched anything that vaguely resembled 878 00:48:06,560 --> 00:48:11,280 Speaker 1: the sewing machine. UM Patent Commissioner Charles Mason, though, ruled 879 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,279 Speaker 1: in favor of Elias Howe on eighteen fifty four, and 880 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 1: the big part of Hunt's loss, even though he really 881 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 1: did have a pretty good working machine, was that he 882 00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:24,920 Speaker 1: didn't do anything to patent or protected eighteen years prior. So, uh, 883 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,120 Speaker 1: the patent office can't can't rule in favor of someone 884 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: who hasn't actually gone through the process. Yeah, yeah, the commissioners, 885 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,839 Speaker 1: what are you trying to do? You didn't You don't 886 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,759 Speaker 1: have these rights. Hunt did try to appeal to the 887 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,680 Speaker 1: Circuit Court of the District of Columbia, but that did 888 00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,880 Speaker 1: not go so well either. Mason's ruling was upheld. So 889 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:51,200 Speaker 1: then how emboldened by this victory, decides to start going 890 00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: after other people that he has has perceived as infringing 891 00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,840 Speaker 1: against his patents. Yep, everybody that was selling a Singer 892 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:01,800 Speaker 1: machine he went after. Wow, that was a lot of people. Yeah, 893 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: and he asked for preliminary injunctions against all of them 894 00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,680 Speaker 1: to shut down sales. While they went through their court cases. 895 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,400 Speaker 1: So he goes through this process, bringing it all the 896 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:19,320 Speaker 1: way to courts when necessary. Um and the they what 897 00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: the poor singer at this point, not not really poor 898 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,919 Speaker 1: singer because he's kind of a jerk, but but you've 899 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: got you've got how going after the people who are 900 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 1: selling singer sewing machines, are incorporating them. Then what they're 901 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: doing instead, you know, they get attacked by how they 902 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,800 Speaker 1: turned around. They attack singers saying, you got us into this. Yeah, 903 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,920 Speaker 1: you had no right to sell us the licenses that 904 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 1: you sold us because you didn't have a right to it. 905 00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,520 Speaker 1: You didn't own the technology that you were licensing to us, 906 00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:49,839 Speaker 1: and and that's why we're in trouble. So sous by 907 00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,839 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty four. Keep in mind this started in the 908 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 1: in the eighteen fifty By eighteen fifty four, Singer and 909 00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,880 Speaker 1: how set all their lawsuit and it's announced in Scientific American. 910 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,680 Speaker 1: This is a big deal. Yeah, this is not tiny news. 911 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:07,080 Speaker 1: This is like, this is just like when you go 912 00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,719 Speaker 1: on to Google News and you see like Samsung and 913 00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 1: Apple settle lawsuits. That's equivalent. Yeah, it's kind of like 914 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,839 Speaker 1: it reminds me of when those first like headlines were 915 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: happening about no Steve Jobs and Bill Gates actually like 916 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 1: each other. It's fine, and it's like that level of wait, 917 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,200 Speaker 1: what we didn't think that's how this worked. Uh, except 918 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: there was very little pushing down of stairs in any 919 00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: of them. Right, well, what what's really cool about this? Okay, 920 00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 1: so this didn't end all litigation. There was still some 921 00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,840 Speaker 1: continuing on. But by eighteen fifty six we get the 922 00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,400 Speaker 1: president of Grover and Baker, which was one of the 923 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 1: companies involved in the suits, that were, uh, that we're 924 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: involving Elias How, I feel like we should back up 925 00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,640 Speaker 1: because we skipped that. People tried to then sue How 926 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,120 Speaker 1: for improving Uh yeah, so How basically at this point 927 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: was the you know, the czar of the sewing machine 928 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,200 Speaker 1: injury in distry. He owned the patent to the biggest 929 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,520 Speaker 1: chunk of it and was licensing those out and he thought, well, 930 00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,240 Speaker 1: you know, I could really tweak that original design as well. 931 00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,680 Speaker 1: But every tweak he made other people claim they had 932 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,200 Speaker 1: already made. So then he was getting sued by people 933 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,400 Speaker 1: for patent infringement for improving on his original design. Okay, 934 00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,720 Speaker 1: so that's the litigation festival. Basically, now you've got people saying, 935 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 1: all right, well, these improvements you're making, we've already made 936 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,280 Speaker 1: and we've already patented. So it's become a huge mess. 937 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:31,319 Speaker 1: By eighteen fifty six, you get the president of Grover 938 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: and Baker, which was one of the companies that was 939 00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:37,400 Speaker 1: involved in these cases against Howe, about these improvements to 940 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: the original designs and comes up with a concept called 941 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: the combination, which, by the way, these days we would 942 00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:49,200 Speaker 1: call this a patent pool. Yeah, And a patent pool 943 00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:51,200 Speaker 1: is essentially when you get a whole bunch of different 944 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: stakeholders who all own different patents that are involved in 945 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: the same general technology to essentially come to an agreement saying, 946 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: all right, gonna pull all these patents together, and as 947 00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,480 Speaker 1: long as we are all officially part of this group, 948 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,520 Speaker 1: and we all agree to operate by these rules, we're 949 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,120 Speaker 1: not going to sue the pants off each other whenever 950 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,200 Speaker 1: we make an improvement to that technology or incorporate that 951 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:17,279 Speaker 1: technology into our products. Make suring that everyone's getting the 952 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,280 Speaker 1: royalties that they deserve exactly. So, the president of Grover 953 00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,080 Speaker 1: and Baker was Orlando B. Potter, and he, you know, 954 00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:26,319 Speaker 1: I feel like he's a person that's not very well 955 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,640 Speaker 1: known historically, but he really deserves a lot of kudos 956 00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,359 Speaker 1: because he was really the first person to go, hey, 957 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,000 Speaker 1: you guys, we're only hurting ourselves. We're kind of being idiots. 958 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: And he really established this concept of what is now 959 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:42,840 Speaker 1: a patent pool. Uh. So he was like, let's stop, 960 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,239 Speaker 1: you know, holding up everybody's production. Let's stop throwing our 961 00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,200 Speaker 1: money at lawyers. We don't need that. We can work 962 00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:52,200 Speaker 1: this out. Uh. And so he got them all to 963 00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,759 Speaker 1: join their forces. They pulled their patents, they made one 964 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:59,160 Speaker 1: unified combination patent for sewing machines. How initially was not 965 00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:01,719 Speaker 1: on word with this. Well, now, when you own a 966 00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:04,520 Speaker 1: huge chunk of the landscape, then you feel like you 967 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:06,600 Speaker 1: have the most to lose and that kind of agreement. 968 00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:10,960 Speaker 1: He definitely felt that way, but eventually he did agree 969 00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:14,719 Speaker 1: to it. He had made some pretty heavy stipulations and 970 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,640 Speaker 1: the other parties agreed. Basically, he was going to get 971 00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,160 Speaker 1: a five dollar royalty on every sewing machine that was 972 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,080 Speaker 1: sold in the US, and for every sewing machine that 973 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,280 Speaker 1: was exported he would get a dollar. Now, I remember 974 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,319 Speaker 1: this is in eighteen fifty six, so these are not 975 00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,760 Speaker 1: paltry sums. No, this is this is significant money. So 976 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:34,279 Speaker 1: in the next eleven years between eighteen fifty six in 977 00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:37,399 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven, when How's patent expired, he made more 978 00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,880 Speaker 1: than two million dollars And that's two million dollars in 979 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,600 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds money. Yeah, that's way more, but he would 980 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:52,000 Speaker 1: be a kazillionaire. Crazy. That's my main was estimation there, um, 981 00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:57,160 Speaker 1: And he requested a an extension to that patent but 982 00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,759 Speaker 1: was denied. Patents do like I said earlier, spire, and 983 00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,400 Speaker 1: when they expire, you lose that exclusivity. You cannot demand 984 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:08,919 Speaker 1: licenses for it. That technology, that implementation of that technology 985 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,640 Speaker 1: then belongs to the public, so anyone can create any 986 00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:15,839 Speaker 1: kind of device using that sort of approach um that 987 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,640 Speaker 1: was originally covered by that patent that's now expired. So 988 00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,000 Speaker 1: he doesn't get the extension he wanted, and he dies 989 00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:23,840 Speaker 1: of a broken heart. He doesn't really die of a 990 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:25,960 Speaker 1: broken heart. His heart was broken earlier in his life 991 00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:27,920 Speaker 1: when his wife died, but it did not kill him 992 00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:31,680 Speaker 1: to the best of our knowledge. However, some say that 993 00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:36,240 Speaker 1: it did kind of spur hist because he just needed 994 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,360 Speaker 1: to focus on something else um. But Singer, of course 995 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:45,440 Speaker 1: continued to work his magic in the sewing machine industry, 996 00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,799 Speaker 1: and now as a consequence, you know, he's really the 997 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,319 Speaker 1: name we remember more than all as how Yeah, yeah, 998 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,440 Speaker 1: you see that name all over. The was exceptional at marketing, 999 00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:59,800 Speaker 1: very much again, kind of like Edison, who was brilliant 1000 00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,040 Speaker 1: in many ways, and one of the big ones was 1001 00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:06,319 Speaker 1: that he was a very smart businessman and marketer. So yeah, 1002 00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,600 Speaker 1: this is again you can see the parallels with modern 1003 00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:13,560 Speaker 1: patent wars. Everything from the cooperation of various companies to 1004 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,880 Speaker 1: make sure that business can continue, the arguments that patent 1005 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,160 Speaker 1: litigation harms innovation, that that patent that's sitting on patent's 1006 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:26,319 Speaker 1: harms innovation. These are not new ideas. No, you gotta 1007 00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,880 Speaker 1: look at you know, early to mid nineteenth century and 1008 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,120 Speaker 1: you can see it all there as well. So very 1009 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,880 Speaker 1: interesting that there's so much in common with what we 1010 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: see today. Holly, I have to thank you again for 1011 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 1: joining me on this podcast and to bring this topic. 1012 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:45,359 Speaker 1: It was awesome to have some something that normally would 1013 00:55:45,360 --> 00:55:47,479 Speaker 1: fall outside the scope of what I usually talk about, 1014 00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,120 Speaker 1: but it fits in so well. Yeay, thank you for 1015 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,960 Speaker 1: having me. I'm always happy to talk a little sewing talk. Well, 1016 00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:54,600 Speaker 1: you know who knows. Maybe I'll get you on here 1017 00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,840 Speaker 1: again and we'll talk about you know, the sewing techniques 1018 00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,960 Speaker 1: used to make crazy science faction costumes delight me in 1019 00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:03,880 Speaker 1: every way. Yeah, I'm sure our listeners would love it 1020 00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,240 Speaker 1: as well. So listeners, if you have suggestions for future 1021 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,640 Speaker 1: episodes of tech Stuff, or maybe you've got a question 1022 00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:13,120 Speaker 1: that came up during the this one, or there's maybe 1023 00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,640 Speaker 1: you just want to give me kudos or shout out 1024 00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:17,879 Speaker 1: to Holly, you can let me know. I have an 1025 00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,400 Speaker 1: email address that you can send mail to that is 1026 00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,160 Speaker 1: tech Stuff at how stuff works dot com, or drop 1027 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:26,440 Speaker 1: me a line on Facebook, Twitter, or Tumblr. The handle 1028 00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:29,239 Speaker 1: at all three is tech Stuff h s W. And 1029 00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:35,600 Speaker 1: I'll talk to you again really soon for more on 1030 00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,120 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Does it has stuff 1031 00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:48,520 Speaker 1: works dot com