WEBVTT - Edith Wharton: Novelist and Designer 0:00:04.760 --> 0:00:07.640 She was a born storyteller. At the age of three 0:00:07.720 --> 0:00:11.680 or four, um she would be observed holding a book 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.200 in her hands, off and upside down, and she would 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.040 walk back and forth and make up and create a 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.160 story that her mother arranged for a play date with 0:00:20.320 --> 0:00:23.680 young friends. He would actually refuse them and insist that 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:25.520 her mother played with him so that she could she 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:31.200 could continue on making up. That was Susan Whistler talking 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:35.280 about young Edith Wharton, the first woman to win the 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.879 Pulitzer Prize for Literature. Wharton is the author of classics 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.600 like The Age of Innocence and The House of Mirth. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:48.760 She created an unforgettable portrait of nineteenth century America and 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:52.919 women's role in it. I'm a land Ververe and this 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.840 is Seneca's one Women to Hear. We are bringing you 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:01.000 one hundred of the world's most inspiring and history making 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:06.600 women you need to hear. Edith Wharton's books continue to 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:11.520 sell widely, even a hundred years after their publication, and 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.480 they've been the source for many movies starring everyone from 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:20.440 Betty Davis to Michelle Peiffer. But Wharton was more than 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:24.480 a novelist. She was also a forward looking designer, of 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:28.560 homes and gardens, and for her relief work during World 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:31.919 War One, she was a hero to the French people. 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:37.839 We got a fascinating insight into Wharton's life from Susan Whistler, 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.560 the executive director of the Mount, the beautiful estate Wharton 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:48.040 built in the Berkshire Mountains of Massachusetts. Listen and learn 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:52.440 from Susan Whistler why Edith Wharton is one of Seneca's 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:58.960 on women to hear. I'm speaking today to Susan Whistler, 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:03.320 the executive director of the Mount the Estate of Edith Wharton, 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.880 and we're going to be speaking about Edith Wharton and 0:02:07.160 --> 0:02:12.320 her place in America's literary history and so much more. Susan, 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.280 it is a wonderful pleasure to have you with us today. Well, Malan, 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:20.040 thank you. I'm delighted to be here. Edith Wharton wrote 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.160 about the world of the wealthy during the Gilded Age 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:28.200 the late eighteen hundreds. She gave us memorable novels, including 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.280 The Age of Innocence in the House of Mirth. She 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.000 was the first woman to win the Pulitzer Prize for 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:38.000 Literature for the Age of Innocence. She was also a 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.400 designer and a decorator, and her passion for houses and 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:46.240 gardens obviously comes out at the Mount when one visits. 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.840 What do you think she should be remembered for? How 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.480 do you see her legacy? You have an intimate engagement 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.400 with her almost every day as you're there at the Mount. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:00.760 Well Edith Wharton, I would say, is and should probably 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.799 best known for her enduring classics of the House of 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.360 Mirth Ethan Frome, and also the Age of Innocence, which 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:09.880 is probably her best known work. It's the one that 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:11.880 one of the Pulitzer Prize when it was published in 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.840 nineteen twenty, and it hit number one on the bestseller 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:19.960 lists again in nine following Martin Scorsese's release of his 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.560 film starring Michelle Peifer and Daniel day Lewis, which is 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:27.280 based on the novel. But Um, I would say, even 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:31.040 though she's mostly known as a novelist, her literary legacy 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:35.080 is actually so much bigger. Um. She wrote across many genres, 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:39.200 including short stories to it, travel books, um, literary essays, 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:43.040 and poetry. And her first well known and sort of 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.800 I would say hit, was a book that was actually 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:49.280 about interior design, called The Decoration of Houses. It was 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:55.360 published in eight and it's still taught in design schools today. Um. 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:58.040 I think she also should be remembered for taking on 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:03.000 subject matter that I would say, even today might seem audacious. 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:07.040 She her books and her novels addressed issues ranging from 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:12.640 euthanasia to war, um to female sexual desire, especially that 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.160 of older women. And I would say that she and 0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:20.240 her works, uh, defy any easy categorization, I would say. 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.120 And then of course there is um what I think 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.720 she considered her most important creation, or one of her 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.200 most important creations, and that is the estate that she 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.440 gotad and build from the Berkshires, the Mount Um. And 0:04:32.560 --> 0:04:35.200 she was as proud of that as any of the 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:40.159 literary work which she produced. Just an exceptional legacy for sure. 0:04:41.080 --> 0:04:44.839 Now you're the executive director of the Mount. Her long 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:48.560 time of state is you just mentioned in the Beautiful 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.960 Berkshires And you used to practice law in New York? 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.200 What got you interested in Edith warn and how did 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.080 you come to head the Mount? Well, I thank serendipity 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:02.880 for for my journey. Um. My last legal job was 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:06.479 actually with a firm here in the Berkshires, and um, 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.600 the partner that I was closest with Unfortunately, died of 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.880 cancer while I was there, and it was it was 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:16.640 a big moment in my life, and I took that 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.360 opportunity to step away from the law and decided i'd 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:23.080 really actually rather spend more time outdoors. And I spent 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:27.480 the next couple of years as a sort of itinerant tradesperson. 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.760 I was a carpenter, I did landscaping, I did painting, UM, 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.240 just sort of odd jobs here and there and UM. 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:37.560 But I was growing tired of the It was getting 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.880 a little tiring, and I certainly wasn't making a lot 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:43.520 of money. And a friend notified me that there was 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.119 an opening here at the Mount, involved with operations, and 0:05:48.000 --> 0:05:50.200 I applied on the labor day and two I think 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.320 I applied on a Friday in two thousand one, in 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:57.640 September and started the following Monday. And I fell in 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.440 love with the property. And I have never look back. 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:02.960 And it's hard to believe that that was nearly twenty 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:07.200 years ago. It's an exceptional story serendipity, though it might 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:10.560 be in terms of how you got engaged. But I 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.080 think the Mount is very fortunate too to have such 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:18.320 an exceptional lawyer and committed leader of that beautiful place. 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:24.760 You mentioned at the outset some of Edith's great literary achievements, 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.960 And she wrote so many years ago, and yet her 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.640 books remained so popular today. What do you think that's 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.679 the case and and what does she tell us about 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:40.400 the wider culture in terms of her time and our time. Well, 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:45.200 when Wharton was at the peak of her career, women's 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:49.359 rights were arguably expanding. The divorce was becoming more common, 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.000 more women were entering the workforce and um, and then 0:06:53.040 --> 0:06:56.000 of course the Nineteenth Amendment was ratified in nineteen nineteen. 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:01.200 And despite all of this scene progress, a major theme 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.640 in Wharton's work is how women's options remain constrictive. Marriage 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:09.520 was often unsatisfactory, and of course women continue to be 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.800 treated unequally. And I would say that there is one 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.200 thing that runs throughout her work that continues to resonate today. 0:07:16.640 --> 0:07:19.040 And another big theme was I would say, the huge 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:23.920 divide between the enormously wealthy, the one percentags perhaps and 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.680 the working class. So I don't think it's hard to 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:29.280 draw parallels between her time and ours. And I think 0:07:30.600 --> 0:07:33.520 the themes that she addresses in her works continue to 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.840 be themes that we as individuals and as a society 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:40.640 continue to struggle with. But I think perhaps the principal 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:44.480 reason she remains popular is because she's just a wonderful writer, 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:49.520 and she's got memorable characters, engaging plots, beautiful language, and 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:53.200 I would say a clean, even muscular writing style. And 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:56.840 so her work is as has stood the test of time, 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.840 and I think a century from now we will still 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:03.160 be talking about her. It's it's so interesting and those 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:06.200 two themes that you mentioned are certainly very much with 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:11.240 us today. Um she lived between eighteen sixty two and 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:15.960 nineteen thirty seven. What was happening then that had a 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:21.040 great deal to say about shaping her and what she 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:25.480 eventually would write about. Ah, that's a great question on um. Well, 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:29.280 Wharton was born into the old money New York society 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.880 uh or. By way of example, on the US Census, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.560 her father listed his occupation as a gentleman of leisure. 0:08:38.080 --> 0:08:40.200 So this was the world into which she was born. 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:44.040 Her family belonged to a class of people who loved 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:48.280 art but distrusted artists, and it was also a class 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:52.360 that felt themselves under siege, particularly by the new money class. 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.360 And because she was a bona fide member of this class, 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:58.360 she knew it. She understood it warts and all. She 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.360 knew it intimately, and it provided her with terrific material 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:05.480 for her writing. UM. She was also heavily influenced by 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:09.000 European culture as a child. Edith had spent much of 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.800 her life in Europe, mainly in France, Germany and Italy, 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:15.480 and it was there that she developed both her gifts 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:19.040 for languages, but also a deep appreciation for beauty. UH. 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:22.800 She loved art, architecture, and literature, and this is where 0:09:23.080 --> 0:09:27.880 all of those passions were ignited. UM. I would also 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:32.320 say that she had an incredible intellectual curiosity and that 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.560 drove her to read just an extraordinary range of books, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.720 not just literature, but she also was fascinated by science 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.680 and philosophy and religion, and her library here can Mount 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:48.520 actually includes multiple copies of books by Darwin, whose works 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:52.600 and theories were of course notly debated in the day. UM. 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:54.680 So those were some of the forces in terms of 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:57.360 events that shaped your life. I would say World War 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:01.640 One was perhaps the most influential. UM. From nineteen fourteen 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:05.280 to nineteen eighteen, she wasn't was in France, in Paris, 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:10.480 and she devoted herself to creating a complex, really extensive 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:15.560 network with charitable and humanitarian organizations that included work rooms 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:21.120 for the unemployed, convalescent homes for people with buerrtulosis. UM, 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:26.559 she created hospitals for refugees and schools for children and UM. 0:10:26.760 --> 0:10:29.600 She also wrote extensively about the war. She was one 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:32.920 of a handful journalists that was actually allowed to h 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:36.440 report from the front lines. And her work was so 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.920 extensive that UM in nineteen sixteen she was actually awarded 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:44.120 the French lesion of loner UM. And I would say 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:46.599 mentioned one last thing that I would say was a 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:51.640 big force on her life. UM. During her lifetime there 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:56.880 were incredible social, economic, and needed technological changes. UM. So 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.920 she went from a horse and buggy era to air travel. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.080 And I would say this progress affected her deeply and 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:06.480 can be seen in her writing. And by the time 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.480 she's in the nineteen twenties, she was actually quite dismayed 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:14.960 at what she saw as the commercialization of popular culture UM. 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.200 And she wrote about this in in her novels. So 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:21.480 in the Children, for example, she makes fun of Hollywood 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:25.240 in the movie industry. In Hudson Riverbracted, she she goes 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:29.720 after the publishing industry and and specifically The Pulitz Surprise. 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.640 And then in Twilight Sleep, which is one of her 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.679 last novels, she turns her pen Scuba modern medicine and 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:40.400 the wonder Pills that were on the rage of the day. 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:45.320 She was such an interesting and complicated personality, obviously, I 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.280 wonder listening to your description of her and what shaped her. 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.800 It sounds like she could have done any number of things. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:56.440 Why did she become a writer? Oh? Um, Well, as 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.840 she was born a writer. I think she she had 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:00.839 no choice but to be. I'm a writer. She was 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:04.360 a born storyteller, So even before she could read. She 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.079 writes in her memoir that she would engage in an 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:10.880 exercise or an activity that she called making up. And 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.360 so you know, at the age of three or four, 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.960 um she would be observed holding a book in her 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.760 hands off an upside down and she would walk back 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:25.240 and forth and make up and create a story. Um 0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:28.520 with her mother arranged for a play date with um 0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:34.040 uh young friends, she would actually refuse them and insist 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:35.840 that her mother play with him so that she could 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:39.839 she could continue on making up. So the storytelling piece 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:42.240 came to her naturally, and I think she was driven 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:47.040 right um, which is not to say that it was easy. UM. 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:52.400 Her family I believe was a little bit in awe 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.880 of the sort of a natural and sort of driven 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.520 nature of Edith to too right, and they ordered her 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:04.360 as a young girl. In fact, UM Wharton's first book, 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.320 first published book, was the book of poems that she 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.559 wrote at the age of sixteen, and her mother actually 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.040 undertook the private publication of that. So I think they 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:18.320 were quite proud of her. But once she was a 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.480 woman of a certain age, where the expectations were that 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:26.400 she was to marry and settle down, UM, I would say, 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.280 the tables turned for her, and Um, at the age 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:33.280 of twenty one, she is engaged to a young man. 0:13:33.880 --> 0:13:37.000 The engagement was broken for very complicated reasons, and the 0:13:37.040 --> 0:13:42.400 newspapers actually report that the engagement was called off because 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:47.800 Wharton was quote an ambitious authoress and too intellectual, and 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.840 that was a huge humiliation for her. UM. And as 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.840 she even as she became you know, critically and a 0:13:55.880 --> 0:14:00.920 critical and popular success, UM, she was often not taken 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.360 seriously as a writer. She was frequently dismissed as either 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.160 just a pale imitation of Henry James, who was a 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.559 good friend or as someone who's worked with trivial because 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.560 they weren't concerned with the rich. And this was despite 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.200 her having often written stories with working class protagonists. UM. 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.080 I would say at least a third of her works 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.360 deal with people who are not of the wealthy class. 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.680 Sounds like some of the criticisms that were lobbed against 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:34.880 her continue in varying ways today against women. That criticism 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:40.040 of being just too intellectual strikes me as one for sure. UM. 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.520 And I just love that image that you painted of 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.640 her as a child holding a book upside down, uh 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:52.480 and storytelling as as she's pacing around. So I think 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.680 you're so right. It does sound so much like she 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:59.360 was born to be a writer. Speaking of her work, 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:05.360 The Age of Innocence celebrated its hundredth anniversary last year. 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.240 What's the story behind that book? For listeners who are 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:12.920 not familiar with it, The Age of Innocence was written 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.480 in nineteen twenty, after World War One, and um after 0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.000 the death of many of Warton's closest friends, including Henry 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:26.160 James and Teddy Roosevelt. UM. And it is set uh, 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.680 not in the twenties, but in the eighteen seventies and 0:15:29.880 --> 0:15:34.000 it is I would say, both um homage too and 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:36.360 a critique of the society that you grew up in. 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.560 Um And it was a book that she didn't want 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.360 to write. Her previous book was a war, a war novel, 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:46.720 and it had the misfortune of coming out just as 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.480 the war was ending and the public was basically sick 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:54.160 of war stories and um And but she wanted to 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:57.440 write another one, and her publishers said, no, we need 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.120 another sort of House of Mirth, like uh, the novel 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:04.160 of matters. And so she needed money she by that 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:07.440 time and purchased a couple of houses in France and 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:11.200 um and so she actually penn The House of Mirth 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:16.360 in I think a little less than a year and um. 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:18.640 In many ways, I would say it is the most 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.360 autobiographical novel. And it involves three major characters. It's kind 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.400 of a love triangle story. There's a gentleman now and Archer, 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:33.280 and then there is the very mysterious and somewhat socially 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:37.160 disgraced because she's divorced, Countess Elena Lenska. And then there's 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:42.960 Maywell and the sort of perfect um product of New 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:48.520 York society woman who new and is expected to wed 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:53.600 and UM. Anyway, it's a it's it's basically a love 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:58.080 story and it but again it is in many ways autobiographical. UM. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.800 And I'll just draw maybe attention to a couple of 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:05.639 the reasons why I say this. Um. Ellen Olenska is 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:09.600 probably the most obvious person based on Edith Wharton's character. 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.960 Ellen and Edith were both very comfortable and felt at 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.120 home in Europe Um, not just because they grew up there, 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.760 but also because they were both very sophisticated women. They 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.440 were equally at home with fashion and as well as 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:27.720 part um. Both Ellen Olenska and Edith Wharton had a 0:17:27.800 --> 0:17:31.000 husband who seized their fortune and spent it on the 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.399 mistresses um. In the novel, one of the reasons the 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.000 Lenska has returned to New York is because her husband 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.680 um uh Is has embezzled her money and was also 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:46.479 neporiously unfaithful. That fits that description also fits edith husband 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:50.240 Peddy to a te um, he behaved very badly. He 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:54.080 embezzled about over fifty thou dollars of the money, which 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:56.399 would be about one and a half million dollars today, 0:17:57.200 --> 0:18:00.800 and speculated poorly in the stock market, and also purchased 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:05.120 the house in Boston, the House of Mistress Um, and 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.320 both in the novel and Warton in real life, ultimately 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.159 they leave their husbands and live alone in Paris and 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:16.320 apartments where um the pastas that a believe, and they 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:20.639 both entertained a steay stream of Frenchise society. So there 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.720 are very many similarities between Wharton and eleanor Leinster. But 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.879 there are also similarities between Wharton and Newland Archer, and 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:32.000 Newland represents who Warton might have been had she remained 0:18:32.000 --> 0:18:35.840 in New York and not escaped all of the bonds 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:41.320 and shackles of the expectations that her class put upon her. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:46.199 Um the young Newland Archer and Edith are both undeniably similar. 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:48.639 They both are very much a part of society. They 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:50.960 attend the opera, they go to dinners and balls, they 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:55.120 participate in all the activities of old New York um Um. 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.640 And despite these useful represemblances, their adult lives take very 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.600 different has. By the end of the novel, knew in 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.720 this fifty seven and that's the same age Wharton was 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.080 when she was writing it. And this new one is 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:12.080 very different from from Wharton. The office Uh he is 0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:16.080 no longer friends with writers. He no longer is dreaming 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:20.720 of making art and intellectual conversation central to his life. Uh. Instead, 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.320 just like everyone else in his social circle, he is 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:27.600 governed by convention in the following tradition, and in the 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.159 last pages of the novel, as he reflects back on 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:33.320 his life, he realizes that he is sunk deep into 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:38.360 a rut. And Wharton, on the other hand, avoided all 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.000 of these ruts because her insatiable curiosity never left her 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.439 and um and chief at the end of her life 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:47.680 is in Paris and in the South of France, where 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:52.680 artists and literature and clever conversation are just a steady 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.879 diet in their life. And this is probably more information 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:58.440 than you want, but I did want to spend a 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:02.800 little moment on May Uh the betrothed to Newland. And 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:07.960 May is the woman that high society included including Wharton's husband, 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:12.000 probably expected and wanted wanted Warton to be. And while 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.040 for many years he was able to pull off the 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.679 dual role dual role of dutiful wife and vestselling author, 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:21.480 eventually it became too much for her and she abandons 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:25.399 her wifely duties and leaves Teddy and ultimately divorces him. 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:28.200 So The Age of Innocence, I think, is a novel 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.040 that can be read many times, and each time you 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:33.359 read it you'll get something different. And one of the 0:20:33.720 --> 0:20:37.800 I think most brilliant aspects of the novel is that 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.399 it is written from the perspective of the male Newland archer. 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.640 And as you read the novel, perhaps the first time 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:47.560 you read it you don't realize it, but certainly on 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.280 the second and third reading, you realize that he is 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:55.680 a completely unreliable narrator and um and you can't at 0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:00.679 one he he he is misinterpreting signs and clues that 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.840 that come before him as the platform folds, and in 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:08.359 many ways is completely clueless. And the women in the 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.240 story who are portrayed on the first breath is perhaps 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:17.359 lesser characters are actually the brilliant ones. Well, speaking of brilliant, Susan, 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.480 I feel like you're brilliant, professor of literature with that 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.320 extraordinary answer, and it is enough, I think uh listeners 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:27.840 will agree to have us all go out and pick 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:31.240 up The Age of Innocence and read it, either for 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.200 the first time or for the second or third time. 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:39.400 As you pointed out Seneca has one hundred women to hear. 0:21:39.520 --> 0:21:52.600 Will be back after the short break. Let's talk about 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.720 the mount a little bit, where you spend so much 0:21:55.760 --> 0:22:00.480 of your time. Warton designed and built it in nineteen 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:03.479 o two for people who haven't been there, and I 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.639 have recently been there for the second time, and it 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:11.720 is just a beautiful and remarkable place. Tell us how 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:15.639 she made it happen, how it reflects who she is, because, 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.840 just speaking for myself, when you walk through that front door, 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:23.959 you walk into a world onto itself in terms of 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:28.400 its beauty and everything it represents about her. She came 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:31.960 to the Virture's Um. This is probably one good thing 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:36.080 that her husband Teddy did, is Teddy's family actually summered 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:38.760 in the Berkshire's and that is how she came to 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:43.840 to know to know the Virture's Um. Wharton's family watering 0:22:43.920 --> 0:22:47.200 their their their summer place was in Newport. And while 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.600 Wharton loved Newport as a child when she was free 0:22:50.640 --> 0:22:54.639 to play tennis or swim, or sale or ride, once 0:22:54.680 --> 0:22:57.840 she was a young married woman, uh the again, the 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:03.320 expectations of entertainment either being entertained or to entertained proved 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:06.920 too great for her and UM, and she was all 0:23:06.920 --> 0:23:09.280 of her time that she had hoped to devote to 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:12.760 writing was taken up with societal duties. And so in 0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:16.080 nineteen o one she and Teddy decide to leave Newport 0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:21.119 and Wharton comes to the Berkshire's Uh they find a 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:27.879 beautiful one acre property which had been previously farmland, and 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:31.479 they purchase it. We've got a wonderful photograph, the historic 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:35.280 photograph of Petty and Edith, and they were both huge 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:37.520 dog lovers, and they're like three little dogs and they're 0:23:37.560 --> 0:23:41.120 all standing on this rocky mound pointing as if this 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:43.840 is they're they're they're telling the person who's taking the photograph, 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:46.280 this is the place, this is what where we are 0:23:46.320 --> 0:23:50.119 going to build our home and UM. Wharton had a 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:54.520 huge interest in both architecture and landscape design, and so 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:59.600 she was involved heavily in every aspect of the construction 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.800 of the State and Um. She intended that it would 0:24:02.840 --> 0:24:04.800 be a home that would meet all of her needs, 0:24:04.840 --> 0:24:08.160 both as a designer, as a gardener, as a hostess, 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:12.120 and most importantly as a writer. So one of the 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:14.720 most distinguishing features of the mount there are there are 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:18.480 a few. One is that it is built far far 0:24:18.560 --> 0:24:21.600 away from the roads. It's not even visible from any 0:24:21.640 --> 0:24:24.440 of the main highways or arteries. And that's because she 0:24:24.600 --> 0:24:27.000 really wanted it to be a retreat. It was not 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:29.880 built to be a symbol of her wealth, though at 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:32.520 that point she was a very successful writer and her 0:24:32.560 --> 0:24:36.040 wealth was considerable. It was meant to be a place 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:39.399 where she could retire from society, should she choose. It 0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:42.400 was also it's also a very it's a very beautiful 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:45.800 and elegant house, but in terms of the number of 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:48.639 people that it will accommodate, it's actually quite small. The 0:24:48.680 --> 0:24:53.200 dining room is designed to seat six, and there are 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:57.080 only two guest bedrooms. And so it was again it's 0:24:57.320 --> 0:25:02.199 primary purpose was to entertain at most your most intimate friends, 0:25:02.600 --> 0:25:04.439 and then also to give her a place where she 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:09.080 could create. Um. She was very proud of the mount Um. 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:13.720 She there's a nineteen o five nineteen o six letter 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:17.399 that she writes to her lover Morton Fullerton, where she 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:20.320 actually says, and I know this line my heart, but 0:25:20.480 --> 0:25:24.760 quote decidedly, I'm a better landscape gardener than novelist. And 0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.560 this place, every line of which is my own work. 0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:32.720 Far surpasses the House of Mirth. And just to put 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:36.840 that in context, the House of Mirth was the runaway 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:40.280