WEBVTT - Why The US Is Fixated on South Africa and Nigeria 0:00:02.480 --> 0:00:08.559 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:09.160 --> 0:00:12.920 US lawmakers have called on Nigeria to repeal sharia lag 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:16.040 in the country's north as they probe US President Donald 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:20.600 Trump's unfounded allegations of Christian persecution in the country. 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:26.320 They're killing record numbers of Christians in Nigeria and they 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:29.840 have other countries very bad also. You know that that 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:32.320 part of the world very bad and killing the Christians 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.920 and killing them in very large numbers. 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:36.280 We're not going to allow that to happen. 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:40.680 This follows previous unfounded claims from the US administration of 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:44.960 a white genocide in South Africa, with thousands. 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:48.800 Of stories talking about it. Surely we have documentaries, we 0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:52.640 have news stores. I could show you a couple of things, 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:56.040 and I would. I just I have to it has 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:57.040 to be responded to. 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:01.080 On today's podcast, we'll look at how Nigeria, Christians and 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.200 white South Africans have become a pretty big issue in Washington, 0:01:05.280 --> 0:01:09.000 d C. And what impact it's having on US Africa relations. 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:15.759 I'm Jennifer's Abisaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:18.839 bringing you one story each week from the continent driving 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:21.960 the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:27.240 can provide. Now, joining us today is our deputy Managing 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:30.279 editor for the Middle East and Africa, that's Neil Munshi, 0:01:30.640 --> 0:01:35.319 and also our South Africa government reporter that is Sembile Stele, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.759 who both of them have been covering this extensively. So 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:41.319 thank you both for joining us this week. Neil, maybe 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:43.800 we just start with you if we take a look 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.160 at what the US Congress committee was investigating, was intended 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.680 on investigating, how did we get to this point? Give 0:01:51.760 --> 0:01:56.000 us a few of the steps into how we got here. 0:01:57.600 --> 0:02:00.160 So, the idea that Christians have been persecuted in Nigeria 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:04.280 has been floating around evangelical circles, especially in the US, 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.920 for many years. It goes back to Trump's first term 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:12.000 as well. I mean, there is also within the Nigerian 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.120 Christian community some agitation about this, that Christians are being 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:20.480 persecuted in the country, et cetera. And it's been picked 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.520 up by members of the Trump coalition and made its 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:26.680 way to the President's desk at some point. I think 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:31.880 the background here is important because Nigeria has an incredibly 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:36.760 bad problem with insecurity across the country, and just to 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:40.320 put it in context, Nigeria is about two hundred and 0:02:40.320 --> 0:02:44.760 some million people, roughly split between Christians and Muslims. Christians 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:47.560 mostly live in the South, Muslims mostly live in the North. 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:54.000 Everyone in Nigeria, regardless of faith, is a victim of insecurity, terrorism, 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:59.160 armed gangs of bandits, communal violence, you name it, and 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:04.280 it tends not to be religiously denominated. That's kind of 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:05.639 the context here. 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.320 Right, And we should probably say, you spent quite a 0:03:08.360 --> 0:03:12.119 lot of time living in the country. Can you talk 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:16.239 about maybe what the reaction from what you know has 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:21.160 been from Nigerians to this whole entire spotlight from the 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.360 US administration being on the country in this way. 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.560 When you hear from ordinary Nigerians, it would be we 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.760 have an incredibly bad insecurity problem, and it is an issue. 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:35.520 But it's not government persecution of Christians. It's not even 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:41.880 that Christians are disproportionately victims of crime or murder or attacks. 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:47.680 It's that the government, successive governments going back fifteen twenty 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:51.920 years have done very little to nothing to address the 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.160 insecurity problem that swallowed the country. This includes kidnapping for ransom, 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.600 you know, arm bandits on motorcycles with AK forty seven. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.120 Listeners might have heard of from Boko. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:06.240 Haram and affiliated groups that are mostly in the northeast 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.800 of the country and mostly impact the Muslims who mainly 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:10.440 live up there. 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.680 Tim BILLI can you jump in here, because if we 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:17.000 think about some of the allegations that we've heard from 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:21.039 President Trump, it's been quite different in South Africa, but 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:23.320 of course we do want to talk about the ways 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:27.120 in which he is still targeting some African countries. Last 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:31.159 year we spoke about South Africa and President Trump. What 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:35.560 impact have his most recent allegations had here in the 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:38.120 country if we talk about ordinary South Africans and even 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:40.039 the South African administration. 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:41.840 So I would say maybe just to pick up on 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.520 Neil's point, is that what South Africa has undatedly been 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.200 battling to deal with for the longest time, and even 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.320 the president he conceded us right when President Sirama Posa 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.200 met with President Trump on the Oval Office last year, 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.200 is that South Africa's issue is crime that affects every 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.920 single aspects of daily life, much the same way that 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.920 insecurity does in Nigeria, and it's something that is indiscriminate. 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:05.600 But in fact, if you do want to bring it. 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.240 To the metrics, it disproportionately affects young black men in 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.520 the main when you're looking at the murders, and we 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:14.800 need to talk about these members because they're important in 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.520 the context of the claim that's been made falsely so 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.920 by the Trump administration that the white minority in the country, 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.200 particularly farmers, are being targeted. There are victims of this 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:26.160 kind of persecution that we're seeing. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.560 And so that's what we saw unfolding for most of 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:29.040 last year. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.640 Even when the South African government has tried to clarify 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:33.919 that it's not the case that there are no white 0:05:33.920 --> 0:05:36.760 Africanas as it were, being targeted, they still offer this 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:40.360 so called refugee program. We saw hundreds of African and 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.960 South Africans leaving on a charter a jet to go 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:46.840 and resettle in the US. And by the way, since then, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.279 we've not heard really great things about the living conditions 0:05:49.320 --> 0:05:52.080 about those South Africans that have left, many of them 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.640 so that they're living in very cramped conditions and hotels, 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.719 they're struggling to find work. It's quite a tedious bureaucratic 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.640 process to get them to live the life that I 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.520 think they would have anticipated that they would be. 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.600 Living in the US. That's the one impact of it. 0:06:06.000 --> 0:06:09.360 The other major concern around the growing tensions that we 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:12.039 saw last year and that have been somewhat sustained between 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.560 Pretoria and Washington is the tariffs, the thirty percent tariff. 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:17.760 That was imposed on South Africa. 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:20.320 When we're looking at the export data from the year 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.000 twenty twenty five, the first two quarters were strong. This 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:26.279 was obviously before the liberation tablets came into effect. But 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.039 what did happen when they did come rather when they 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.920 were postponed? There was a ninety day pause, and during 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.800 that ninety day pause, we saw exporters exporting a higher 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.279 volume than usual and that's kind of given a cushion 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.279 to the final export datas which are in the main 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:44.600 Not to say that there has not been a massive 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:48.000 impact on exporters the agricultural sector in the main, but 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.680 it's been somewhat muted and offset by a number of 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.159 other things that are happening. Maybe then, just the last 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:56.440 point to make again linking to crime, some of the things. 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:58.479 One of the things that has been a deterrent to 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:01.320 tourists coming to South Africa is the experience of some 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.599 that they have experienced really violent crime against to the 0:07:04.640 --> 0:07:07.680 point that it happens, it affects everyone in the country. 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.240 When we're looking at South Africa's tourism data, obviously, like 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.480 every other tourist destination in the world, there's been a 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:16.960 somewhat of a slow down or a cooling in terms 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:18.640 of tourists since the COVID period. 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:20.200 In South Africa is no different to that. 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:22.880 In terms of a lot of the countries that come 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.800 to South Africa, we've not seen them return to the 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.840 pre COVID levels, with the exception of two countries funny enough, 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.160 that being Australia and the UK last year when we 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:37.000 look at the final figures. So whatever the rhetorica has 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:39.840 been coming from the Trump administration with the false allegations 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:42.400 that they've been making, it's not been a determined at 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.720 least that's what the numbers are selling us in terms 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.920 of US citizens that are looking to come to South 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.800 Africa for the purposes of tourism and leisure. 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.920 One thing I think that's important to point out about 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.800 the South Africa example of a Nigerian example is while 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.760 they're rooted in this sort of you know, reality of 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:05.240 insecurity issues in those countries, the main root of it 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:09.360 is in US domestic politics. Right, so two strains of 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:14.840 kind of Trumpian politics, White grievance politics and the evangelical 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:18.040 Christian community in the US, which forms the bedrock of 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:24.200 Trump's bace. And in both cases, this kind of conspiracy 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:30.200 theorizing came up through those two political bases, and Trump 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:35.359 has latched onto them in office to give those communities 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.880 what they want. It's a pretty canny political move back 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:40.480 in the US. 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:44.760 Can I asked then, Neil, what do officials think is 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.880 behind it? Do they think it is, as you say, 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:51.679 rooted in US domestic politics, potentially it's about the mid 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.640 term elections or do they think it's potentially about something more? 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.480 No, I mean you can see from even public statements 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:01.240 from I mean particularly in South Africa more than Nigeria. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:03.280 I don't think it has something to do with the midterms. 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.520 This stuff came up last year, right very soon into 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:08.400 his first term, well before the midterms, so I don't 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:11.160 think it's linked to that. But I think it's clear 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:13.920 that it's linked to these kind of US domestic issues. 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:16.600 The thing is how the countries have responded, and like 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:21.480 Stambilee said, both countries have acknowledged these insecurity issues and 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.360 what Nigeria has done that I think is a bit 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.960 different than what South Africa has done. Those Stimbula can 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.840 correct me if I'm wrong, is they've kind of used 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.520 it as an opportunity to ask the Trump administration for 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:38.760 help in addressing the insecurity issues. So we've seen US 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:45.040 military trainers, US intelligence sharing to target the Jihadis and 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:49.480 to some extent, the armed bandit groups in the country. 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:54.560 But again, they're doing that while not conceding or admitting 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:58.439 that there is persecution of Christians in the country. They're 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:01.400 saying very plainly that there's not persecution of Christians in 0:10:01.440 --> 0:10:04.760 the country. The government is led by a Muslim whose 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:09.439 wife is herself an evangelical pastor, so they're sort of 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.760 not conceding the point, but they are using it as 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.200 an opportunity to address the insecurity issue that they and 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.360 their predecessor governments have done very little to address. 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.559 Hold that thought, Neil and Stambula stick with us. We're 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:23.720 going to take a quick break and when we come back, 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.360 we'll talk more about what this means for the future 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.640 of these relationships between African countries and the US. 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:31.560 We'll be right back. 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.840 Welcome back today. We're looking at the US attention on 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:45.240 alleged persecution in South Africa and Nigeria and the relationship 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.120 between the US and African countries. We have Neil Munchi 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.360 and also Sembile Stele joining us here. Simbile, we were 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:56.719 talking a bit with you before the break about the 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.640 state of relations when it comes to the US and 0:10:59.760 --> 0:11:02.920 South Africa. What more have we heard from the government 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:06.760 about maybe what this looks like ahead in their mind? 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:09.200 Look, I think very much is a situation where you 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.679 have the US president kind of blowing hot and cold, 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.079 and because it's not really clear what it is that 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.280 he wants from South Africa, some commentations would argue that 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:20.160 it seems like he forgets about the country at some 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.640 point and point and then maybe someone was persent as year, hey, 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.680 you remember this is happening, and then you'll kind of 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:25.640 poke the bear again. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.480 At the moment, I think things are kind of muted. 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:31.720 South Africa's position has remained that we are always open 0:11:31.800 --> 0:11:32.880 to engagement. 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.439 But in the intervening period. 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:38.000 What we've seen, obviously is the successful hosting from South 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.360 Africa side of the G twenty, where the US, of course, 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.640 you will remember, opted out of those meetings they have 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:47.200 since taken over presidency the US now of the G 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:50.720 twenty and they have actively excluded South Africa from the 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:54.880 meetings which would have gotten underway in December. Interestingly enough, 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.640 alongside that, though, one of the things that the South 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:02.440 African government was worried about was South Africa's exclusion from 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:06.040 the AGOA preferential free trade agreements. And what we've seen 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.560 in the past few months is a US lawmakers actually 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:12.080 renewing that agreement for a year and including South Africa 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:14.120 rather not excluding it, because that was one. 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:14.720 Of the fears. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.080 In addition to that South Africa not being excluded from 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:22.120 that very pre preferential trade agreement, the US finally has 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:24.880 an ambassador designate to His credentials have not yet been. 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:25.840 Accepted in South Africa. 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:30.079 But Leo Brent Bosel, who was a defender of the 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.079 apartheid regime if you can call him that, in that 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.839 period pre democracy in South Africa, he has now landed 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:37.760 on South African shows. He's been doing a number of 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.199 meetings and to be fair in his welcoming message, he's 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:44.400 not really made many public addresses, but on social media, 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:47.240 the welcoming messages that he made was very much conciliatory. 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.640 It didn't give any sense of hostility. And I'm here 0:12:49.679 --> 0:12:52.920 to cause a mess. And so America has sent someone 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:56.120 to represent them in South Africa and those engagements are underway. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.679 So it's kind of a mixed bag of things. That's 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.480 why I say it seems to blow hot and cold. 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:02.800 You never know what's going to happen next. But to 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:07.480 Neil's points earlier about the electoral base which Donald Trump 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.079 relies on and pants to, we might see that should 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.520 he come under pressure in the months leading up to 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.439 the midterms, he might revert his attention back to South 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.480 Africa and kind of want to make a connection with 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:20.640 that base again to say, look, I haven't forgotten about 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:23.440 these interests. You say you're worried about the persecution of 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.600 white South Africans in that country, So am I. That 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.520 may give him a little bit of closeness again to 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:31.800 that base as we move close up to the midterms. Again, 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.560 not to say that his actions have been because of 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.240 the midterms, but we do see that when election campaigns 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:39.040 get underway, it's one way to offset the kind of 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.960 pressures that come to be associated with that period of 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.760 accountability that is associated with the midterms. 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.840 Yeah, and Neil, how is diplomacy or how's Nigeria handling 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.360 diplomacy different from South Africa. Is it a different picture 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.040 altogether or do you still see some similarities maybe to 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:55.840 how they're reacting. 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:59.000 I mean, I think it's similar to a lot of 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.560 how a lot of emergent markets, I mean, even European 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.640 allies do, which is a sort of you know, head down, 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:07.920 don't want to cause too much trouble, don't want to 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:11.040 get noticed too much kind of thing in case they 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:14.360 incur his wrath. So there's a bit of that. But again, 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.880 I think just like it's important to say for both 0:14:16.880 --> 0:14:20.080 countries that they're not conceding the point that there's any 0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:24.640 validity to these conspiracy theories about persecution of whites and 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:29.400 South Africa or Christians in Nigeria, but they are attempting 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:34.040 to kind of turn the conversation to a more comfortable 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:37.040 one and one in which kind of both countries, both 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.840 the US and Nigeria in this case, can claim a win. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.160 And so far Nigeria seems to be doing a pretty 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:42.960 decent job at that. 0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:45.720 And thanks so much Neil and Stanbula again for joining 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:48.800 us at this week on the podcast, and you can 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.520 read more of our reporting from across the region on 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:53.720 Bloomberg platforms. 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:56.200 Now Here are some of. 0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:59.440 The other stories we've been following across the region this week, 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:04.360 Billionaire Aliko dan Gote's oil refinery will prioritize supplying fuel 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:07.240 in Nigeria, its home market, as long as it can 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:09.080 access local crude. 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:10.280 The West African. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:13.360 Nation is among the few on the continent with refineries, 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.600 and as Africa's largest oil producer, is not reliant on 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:22.520 Middle Eastern supplies. And South Africa's Central Bank is monitoring 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:24.920 the market and would take action in the event of 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.320 major dysfunction after the worst bond sell off since the 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:32.440 COVID pandemic, as concerns mount that soaring oil prices and 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.720 a weaker rand will fuel inflation. And you can follow 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.560 these stories across Bloomberg, including of course the Next Africa Newsletter. 0:15:40.720 --> 0:15:42.480 Will put a link to that in the show notes. 0:15:46.840 --> 0:15:49.080 This program was produced by Adrian. 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:50.440 Bradley and Tiwa Adubio. 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.560 Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.920 usually get your podcasts, but for now I'm Jennifer's Abasacha. 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:58.240 Thanks as always for listening.