1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M Hello, 4 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 5 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: name is Ben. Our compatriot Noel is traveling at the moment, 6 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: but we'll be back soon. We are joined with our 7 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: super producer Paul Decon. Most importantly, you are you, and 8 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: that makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Matt, 9 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: I propose we begin this episode with a little bit 10 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 1: of a peak behind the curtain. So for the past 11 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: gosh two months almost, Matt and Noel and I have 12 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: been kicking the can down the road regarding a very 13 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: interesting email we received about the Georgia guidestones. And every 14 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: episode we have told each other we're going to read 15 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: this in a shout out corner at the end of 16 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: the show. And we've just been, you know, so much 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 1: like a dog chasing a ball that by the time 18 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 1: we get to the end of an episode, we've we've 19 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: found that we don't have room to squeeze this head. Yeah, 20 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,240 Speaker 1: but we're gonna instead of squeezing it in, we're just 21 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: going to place it in front of you, right here 22 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: in front of this podcast. So let's consider this an 23 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: oddly placed chat at corners. The message says, greetings Ben, 24 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 1: Matt Noel. This email is in regards to the stuff 25 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Podcast episode titled Who 26 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 1: Built the Georgia Guidestones published of November. We got there, 27 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: We got to it eventually, we did uh. It says, Firstly, 28 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: there were several pieces of information left out from your 29 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: discussions on the topic, and this is a much longer 30 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: email than we're going to read now. We're reading at 31 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: one piece of it that was the most compelling to us, 32 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: it says. The identity of R. C. Christian has since 33 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: been revealed to be that of one Herbert Hinny h 34 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: I n I E. Kirsten, a doctor from Fort Dodge, Iowa. 35 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: This was first reported in the documentary film Dark Clouds 36 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: Over Elberton by Chris Pinto. It is also reported that 37 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: Kirsten was a supporter of David Duke, the former Grand 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: Wizard of the Knights of the Clue Klux Klan and 39 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 1: proponent of eugenics. He was apparently aided by a friend 40 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: of his, Robert Merriman, who helped publish the Common Sense 41 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: Renewed book, the one that we mentioned in that episode, 42 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: A Whole Bunch, and we actually have a copy of 43 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: and it was written this has written to us by 44 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,119 Speaker 1: quote a guide to the end, and we thought this 45 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: was We thought this was fantastic. At least it's a 46 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: fantastic on the true identity of R. C. Christian. At 47 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: this point, it has not been conclusively proven. Not everybody 48 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: agrees that this is indeed Herbert Henny Kirsten or Herbert 49 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: Heinie Kirsten. But I think it's Hinny, I think it's 50 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: any Matt. I've this has not been conclusively proven in 51 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: a way that everybody accepts. But this is one of 52 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: the most recent arguments for the true identity of R. C. Christian. 53 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 1: If you'd like to learn more, please check out the 54 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 1: documentary Dark Clouds over Alberton as well as, uh, the 55 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: fantastic documentary that Matt put together. No, that we put together. Okay, 56 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: but it's available on Amazon for free, just search for us. Yeah, 57 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: Etcherton Secret is out the name of our take on it. Uh, 58 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: and maybe one day we'll just get it on YouTube 59 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: as well. Agreed we should do that and this concludes 60 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: our oddly placed onto the show. Let's get let's get creepy. 61 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: Let's get creepy immediately. Okay, oh that's a creepy voice, Matt. 62 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: We've all heard myths about vampires, right, Yes, some form 63 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: of a vampire legend exists on every continent with the 64 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: possible exception of Antarctica. There's the typical Dracula type vampire 65 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: that's possibly the most familiar type of vampire here in 66 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: the West, but there are other creatures as well, like 67 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: the swang in the Philippines or the lamia in Grecian 68 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: uh folklore. Yeah, bloodsuckers, beings that exist on the sanguine 69 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: delights of other beings. That's a great that's a great 70 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: description there. Yeah. And it's really tough to trace the 71 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: beginnings of this myth of what a vampire is, what 72 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: it was before it became a capital v vampire that's 73 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: in movies and pop culture, and from demons to Dracula, 74 00:04:54,880 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: the creation of the modern vampire myth. The author Matthew 75 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: Beresford notes, quote, there are clear foundations for the vampire 76 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: in the ancient world, and it is impossible to prove 77 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: when the myth first arose. There are suggestions that the 78 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,440 Speaker 1: vampire was born out of sorcery and ancient Egypt, a 79 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: demon sumone into this world from some other right other being, 80 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: some other playing uh, some other dimension. In earlier episodes, 81 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 1: we explored the possible origins of the vampire myth, the 82 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: by which we mean the possible real world seeds of 83 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: truth that that later grew into this agglomeration of folklore. 84 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: And this includes proposed causes such as premature burial, which 85 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: was horrifically common for a very very long time, also 86 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: conditions medical conditions like porphyria or dementia and so on. 87 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 1: And you can again find those episodes, both video and 88 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: audio at our website. Stuff they don't want, you know, 89 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,120 Speaker 1: dot com um to do on whatever feed you're using 90 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 1: to listen to this, Oh yes, or on whatever feed 91 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: you prefer. We should be out there and tell us 92 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: if you can't find us on your preferred feed. But 93 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: today we are asking a more topical question. We're not 94 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: asking whether something like a vampire ever existed, or even 95 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: if something like a vampire currently exists. Instead, we're asking 96 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: whether it is possible to create vampires or something like them, 97 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 1: not characters in fiction friends and neighbors and nor monsters 98 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: on the silver screen. We're talking about real life vampires again, 99 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: someone something that exists on the blood of others. And 100 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: this concept of vampireism has become so prevalent in our 101 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 1: worlds nowadays. It's been used as an insult, you vampire, 102 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: get out in the light, your vampire, or a piece 103 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: of opprobrium to heap them upon all kinds of let's say, 104 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: all too human rosters. Right yeah, here, opprobrium is word 105 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: for reproach or or insult. You'll hear this used to 106 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 1: refer to certain serial killers in the past, you know, 107 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: the vampire of so and so, and you'll also, of 108 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: course here it used to describe a lot of ancient aristocrats. 109 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: Of course. The legendary Lad Tepish is often cited as 110 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: the inspiration for ram Stoker's Dracula, and he was a 111 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: prince of a place called Wallachia three different times between 112 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: fourteen forty eight and his death. He was the second 113 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: son of someone named Vlad Drakul or Vlad the Dragon, 114 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,239 Speaker 1: who was the ruler of Volachi in fourteen thirty six, 115 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: and although his father was known as Dracula the Dragon, 116 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: he flat tepish lad. The third was the more notorious 117 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: of the to He was known as the Impaler for 118 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: his habit of impaling his enemy's rivals or just people 119 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: who caught him on the wrong side of bed in 120 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: the morning. He'd have these large wooden stakes erected and 121 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: then graphic warning here, he would have their bodies forced 122 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: on the stakes, the stakes going through their anuses and 123 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,880 Speaker 1: impaling him that way. He was also infamous for casually 124 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: dining as he watched these people die a very slow, grizzly, 125 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: painful death. So in a way he did get by 126 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: through the blood of others, in a very dark way. 127 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: Sure yeah, and in a experiential rather than a physiological 128 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: way perhaps, which is I don't know, that's a dangerous 129 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: comparison because if we if we engage in that comparison, 130 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: we get to a slippery slope where we could argue 131 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 1: that all war lords or even politicians who are in 132 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: charge of military areas subsist to a degree on the 133 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: blood of others. I don't think that slope is that slippery. 134 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: I think we might already have slipped. Uh. There's another example, 135 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: which is Elizabeth Bathory or Orsbet Bathory, the noblewoman who 136 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 1: is based in what is now known as Slovakia. In 137 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: the six hundred, she was arrested and accused of numerous 138 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: maccab crimes. We have just a few examples of those 139 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: alleged crimes. Yeah, she would keep her well. Allegedly, she 140 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: would keep her servants chained up every night so their 141 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: their hands were just so tightly bound that they would 142 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,160 Speaker 1: turn blue and sometimes even squirt blood out of them. 143 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: She used to beat her servants to the point that 144 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: there was so much blood all over the place, on 145 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: the walls and the beds, they had to use ashes 146 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: and cinders to soak it all up and scrub it 147 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: all away. She even burned her servants with metal sticks 148 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,079 Speaker 1: allegedly red hot keys and coins. She ironed the souls 149 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: of their feet, and even stuck burning rods into um 150 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: their vaginas. Yes uh, and she didn't stop there with stabbing. 151 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: She also pricked them in their mouths and fingernails with needles, 152 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: cut their hands, lips, and noses. She used knives, needles, candles, 153 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: occasionally her own teeth to laceerate the genitals of servants, 154 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: stitched their lips and tongues together, made them sit on 155 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: stinging nettles, bathe with the nettles, forced them to cook 156 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: and eat their own flesh or make sausages from it 157 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: and serve it to the guests. She was accused of 158 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: practicing dark magic, baking magical poisonous cakes in order to 159 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:44,199 Speaker 1: kill rival politicians, such as George Thursoh, who was later 160 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: one of the guys who arrested her. Uh. She was 161 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: also she would cast magic spells to summon clouds filled 162 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 1: with angry cats, most famously the most infamously rather, she 163 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: was believed to a bled young servant girls dry and 164 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: after and exanguinating their bodies or training all the blood 165 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 1: from them, bathing in that blood. Yes, and that's probably 166 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: where you've most likely heard a lot of these stories 167 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: where she is the she's a whole other archetype in 168 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: a way of things beyond a vampire, just having to 169 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: do with bathing in the blood. Right, and this was 170 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: characterized as part of a right or ritual that would 171 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: lengthen her lifespan and rejuvenate her history has to a 172 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: degree exonerated bath Thy of some of these accusations. At 173 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: the time of the trial, over three hundred individuals testified 174 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: against her for one thing or another, and her servants 175 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,440 Speaker 1: were put to Four of her servants were put to 176 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,720 Speaker 1: some ends. But given the influence that she had in 177 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: society at the time, she was not killed. She was 178 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 1: immured I am m U r e D, which means 179 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: they grounded her for the rest of her life. Essentially, 180 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: they put her in a windowless room. She was supplied 181 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 1: with food and water, and she was left there to die. 182 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: But it looks like it looks like there's some problems 183 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: with the claims. Most immediately, the whole idea of bathing 184 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: in virgin blood. First, that idea came about centuries after 185 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: her death. Someone added that to the to the story 186 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: to the camp fire tail. It doesn't mean that she 187 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: didn't do horrible things, just means that came along much later. Also, 188 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: from a scientific perspective, it's most likely impossible for her 189 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: to quote bathe and virgin blood due to coagulation. How 190 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: would you how would you keep the blood liquid long 191 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: enough for there to be an entire tub of it? Interesting? 192 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: I guess it would be in the how you got 193 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: the blood out right right and ambient temperature and so on. So, yeah, 194 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: we're getting grizzly pretty Quickilly in this one. So it's 195 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:32,559 Speaker 1: also possible that Bathory was targeted by the male dominated 196 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: establishment at the time because vilification or demonization of women 197 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 1: was a common way of removing them from the political chessboard. 198 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: This happened in witch hunts, you know a lot of times. 199 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: One thing that escapes historical explanations of the witch hunting 200 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: phenomenon is the following in certain practices in the inquisition, 201 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: in certain non inquisition which hunts the accuser, the person 202 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: who put the witch to trial, who is almost always 203 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: convicted in one way or the other. Uh, they would 204 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: receive the wealth of the estate, so they were not 205 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: objective in their accusations. They were incentivized or incented, whichever 206 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: word you prefer, to arrive at a guilty verdict. So 207 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: it's quite possible that this was a political hit. But 208 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: we say all this because whether or not the legend is, 209 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: whether or not the legend is true, it is something iconic. 210 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,680 Speaker 1: It is an image that is stayed with us. You mean, 211 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: probably everyone you know has heard of these grizzly stories 212 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: about the elites of the world subsisting on the blood 213 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 1: of the innocent and typically the oppressed. Yeah, I mean metaphorically, 214 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: there's no bones about it. It kind of is true metaphorically, right, right, 215 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: And so the question, literally than our conclusion becomes that's it, right. 216 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: Vampirism is largely a myth in allegory of sorts. Right. 217 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. There maybe more to this 218 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: whole blood and vampireism thing than we we had initially 219 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: believed early some aspect of it. Yeah, for decades, it 220 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: turns out, scientists have been experimenting with the idea of 221 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: transfusing blood from younger organisms to older organisms. Yeah, what 222 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: happens when we put this young blood in here? Yes, exactly. 223 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: That's a pardon the evil laugh. It didn't mean it 224 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: sounds sinister, but it's it's true. And you have to 225 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: wonder sometimes how much of this research starts from an 226 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: informed place and how much of it starts with someone going, 227 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: you know what I wonder? I wonder, like hear me out, guys, 228 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: I have this picture of I have this picture of 229 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: you and Paul and Matt Nolan, I listeners, I have 230 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: this picture of us all sitting around the table and 231 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: saying what will our next experiment be? And then someone 232 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: like you just did Matt goes Uh, guys, hear me out. 233 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: We have a lot of mice, and that's where they started. 234 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: They scientists began transfusing blood from young mice into the 235 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: bodies of old mice. And as it turned out, this 236 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: was not just some weird thing for Matt scientists to 237 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 1: do for for kicks. It all goes back to something 238 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: called parabiosis. Yeah. This is a hundred fifty year old 239 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: surgical technique that unites the vasculature of the veins and 240 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: the arteries, the blood systems essentially of two living animals. 241 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 1: And the word actually comes from the Greek para, meaning 242 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: alongside and bios life. So you have two organisms that 243 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,680 Speaker 1: you've essentially created conjoined twins out of Yeah, yeah, exactly. 244 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: We're animals that share a placenta in a womb. This, Yeah, 245 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,639 Speaker 1: parabiosis does occur in nature, as with the with the 246 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: example that Matt's side, it can. Joined twins would probably 247 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: be the most well known example. But we we being 248 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: the human species, learned that we could do this artificially. 249 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: And here's the huge plot twist. Not always automatically killing 250 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: the living things we stitched together human centipede style. Well 251 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: not quite right, right, Sorry, you're right, you're right, Matt. Uh, 252 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: they're not. That's a digestive system or right, that's exactly right. No, 253 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 1: this would just be circulatory system and a lot less 254 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: gross but still gross. In the lab, you see, parabiosis 255 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: gives experts a tremendously rare opportunity to test what factors 256 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,280 Speaker 1: in the blood in the circulatory system of one animal 257 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: do when they enter another animal. It's a question I've 258 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: always asked myself, I know, sometimes out loud during meetings, 259 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: what happens if my blood was your blood and your 260 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,919 Speaker 1: blood was my blood? You know people can hear you 261 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: when you do that, right, Yes, yes, that's why no 262 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: one's not here for this episode. I think maybe you 263 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 1: should just get a creative outlet, like right, poetry or 264 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: essays or yeah, I'm going to pick up a guitar. 265 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I get into some real dark metal, 266 00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:01,240 Speaker 1: and you could create dark power ballads about these experiments. 267 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: Because experiments with these rodent pairs, whether rats or mice 268 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 1: or what have you, have led to immensely important breakthroughs 269 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: inn indochronology, tumor biology, immunology, and so on. But here's 270 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: a curious thing, Matt. Most of those discoveries occurred more 271 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: than thirty five years ago. The technique, for some unknown reason, 272 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: fell out of favor in the nineteen seventies, and well, 273 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: we did a lot of digging, and we still can't 274 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,919 Speaker 1: We still can't find out what happened in the seventies. 275 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 1: I think most most of it is just the factory sure. 276 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:42,480 Speaker 1: In the past few years, however, a couple of labs 277 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: relatively small number, have revived the practice of artificial parabiosis, 278 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,840 Speaker 1: especially in the field of age research or aging, because 279 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 1: it turns out that by joining the circulatory system of 280 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: an old mouse to that of a young mouth, scientists 281 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:04,440 Speaker 1: can produce some remarkable things, which already just sounds so 282 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: problematic and spooky to me. But what do they find. Well, 283 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: in the hot brain, muscles, and almost every other tissue examined, 284 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: the blood of young mice seems to bring new life 285 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: into aging organs, making own mice stronger, smarter, and healthier. Yeah, yeah, 286 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: I mean even without the voice. That's troubling. It does. 287 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: It does good things to the old mice, right, and 288 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: it even makes their fur shinier. Now, these labs have 289 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 1: begun to identify the components in this quote unquote young 290 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: blood that are responsible for these changes. For example, a 291 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 1: biochemist and gerontologist named Clive McKay, based in Cornell University 292 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: up there in Mythiccan, New York, was the first individual 293 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,959 Speaker 1: to apply parabiosis to the study of aging. In nineteen 294 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: fifty six, he and his team joined sixty nine pairs 295 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: of rats together in para biosis. They stitched them up 296 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: together so that their circulatory systems were in contact formula 297 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: larger circuit and the linked rats included you know, they 298 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: all had those differing age ranges. So one pair was 299 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: made up of a sixteen month old rat and a 300 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: one point five month old rat. In human terms, that's 301 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 1: the same thing as sowing a forty seven year old 302 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: person to a five year old child. And here's the deal. 303 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: When you when you attach a forty seven year old 304 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: um through the circulatory system to a five year old 305 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: sometimes it always doesn't go well um from a psychology 306 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 1: standpoint of the rats. So here here's a quote from 307 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: the authors who worked on the study. If two rats 308 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: are not adjusted to each other, one will chew the 309 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 1: head of the other until it is destroyed. Yeah, that's 310 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: a quotation from the author's description of their work of 311 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: this wasn't a pretty experiment because rats are highly intelligent animals, right, 312 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: and obviously smart enough to know that something is not 313 00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: normal if they are stitched up to another individual, especially 314 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,239 Speaker 1: if they are not acclimated to that individual. If you 315 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: woke up and you were sown to a stranger, you 316 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: would have some questions, some concerns. You probably would not 317 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: be chill about it. So they also found that there 318 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: was a troubling phenomenon they couldn't explain at the time. 319 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: Back in the fifties. Of the sixty nine rodents that 320 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 1: they paired together, eleven pairs died from mysterious condition they 321 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: called parabiotic disease that occurred. This occurred about one to 322 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: two weeks after the partners were joined, and it was 323 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: probably a form of tissue rejection. Just yeah, your one 324 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,359 Speaker 1: body going, what the heck is this? Yeah? Absolutely well, 325 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: because in this in this case, you are transferring all 326 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: of the blood. You're not taking out a component of 327 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: the blood, as we're going to see maybe in the future. 328 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: Here as we're moving on, you're getting everything. Excellent point. 329 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:38,199 Speaker 1: This is not a transfusion. This is the This is 330 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: compiling or mix taping two separate circulatory systems. So in 331 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: in McKay's first parabiotic aging experiment, after the older young 332 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: rex were joined for from anywhere from nine months to 333 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: eighteen months, they found in you know, the the one 334 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: positive thing that seemed to come out of this um, 335 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: the older animals bones became similar weight and density to 336 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: the bones of the younger counterparts that they were attached to. 337 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: So it did seem like there is something going on 338 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: here in at least most in this case of the 339 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,639 Speaker 1: cases of the pairs, some kind of beneficial thing for 340 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: the older rats, not necessarily for the younger rats. There's 341 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: not really much of a benefit at all. No, it doesn't. 342 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like there is, because it's not as 343 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: if the young rats somehow gain the wisdom and experience. Right. 344 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: What seems to happen in the ideal case is that 345 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:41,880 Speaker 1: they enter into a type of symbiosis called commence all 346 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 1: is um. There are three types of symbiosis. Symbiosis just 347 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 1: means a close relationship between two and more species, right. 348 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: The three types are mutual is um, where both both 349 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,639 Speaker 1: parties benefit or all parties benefit, parasitism where one benefits 350 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: at the spence of the other and commence ali is um, 351 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: where one species benefits somehow and the other species is 352 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 1: neither harmed nor helped. Arguably, this is on the line 353 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: between commence ali is um and parasitism, because while the 354 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: younger animal is not necessarily being directly harmed, it's life 355 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: is going to be hindered because it's you know, attached 356 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: to this forty seven year old mouse. It's like six 357 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: year old. I was like, your music is just really 358 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 1: I don't understand it. I don't know why we're watching 359 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,439 Speaker 1: this on TV. Let's watch oldies. So let's fast forward. 360 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: Let's get through the seventies, where again this research mysteriously 361 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: fell out of favor. A few years back, a team 362 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: of researchers Amy Wagers, Irena and Michael Conboy and Thomas 363 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: Rando partnered up. They've vultron up to take their separate 364 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: areas research in this field and combine them to investigate 365 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:08,200 Speaker 1: the phenomenon. Specifically, this group wanted to address a problem 366 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: with the study of agent with gerontology as a whole. 367 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 1: And here's where we are now. It seems as if 368 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: aging itself is a body wide effect. Right now, your 369 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: your body tends to break down sort of. At the 370 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: same time, there are environmental things that can that can 371 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: affect you. For instance, Um, you will take more damage 372 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: depending on how you treat yourself if you do. If 373 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:44,879 Speaker 1: you are an athlete and you have a lot of 374 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: repetitive exercises, right then you may have concussions or you 375 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 1: may have joint problems that might not have appeared in 376 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,719 Speaker 1: the same way. Yeah, even if you're just walking around 377 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: all the time, your joints and your knees aren't going 378 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: to be the same as perhaps the joints in your 379 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 1: shoulder if you aren't very active with your shoulders. Yeah, yeah, 380 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: good point. And the problem is that they wanted to 381 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: They wanted to see if they could determine what coordinates 382 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: the aging process. In the words of Rando, why does 383 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: everything in your body go to hell in a handbasket 384 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: at once? Why does this affect multiple parts of the 385 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: body simultaneously. So they tried these experiments again, and they 386 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: took some lessons learned from the earlier experiments in the fifties. 387 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: So they made sure the mice or the rodents knew 388 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 1: each other before they sewed them together. And Thomas Rando 389 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: says that he did not expect the experiment to work, 390 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: but it did within five weeks. He said. The young 391 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: blood restored muscle and liver cells in the older mice, 392 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,919 Speaker 1: notably by causing aged stem cells to start dividing again. 393 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:03,719 Speaker 1: They also found that young blood resulted in enhanced growth 394 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: of brain cells in old mice, although that work was 395 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 1: left out of their two thousand five paper that described 396 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: the results. All in all, the results suggested that blood 397 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,440 Speaker 1: was the medium of transportation for whatever the mystery factor 398 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 1: or factor was that coordinated aging in different tissues, which 399 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: makes sense because blood is a very well traveled substance 400 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: in the human body. In two thousand eight, the convoys 401 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: uh Arena and Michael linked muscle rejuvenation to the activation 402 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,600 Speaker 1: of something called notch signaling, which promotes cell division, or, 403 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: to be more technically accurate, it's the muscile rejuvenation is 404 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: dependent upon the d activation of the transforming growth factor pathway. 405 00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: That's what blocks cell division into a thousand and fourteen, 406 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: the group identified one of the age defying factors circulating 407 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: the blood. Oh yeah, it's oxytocin. It's a hormone is 408 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: best known for its involvement in childbirth and bonding. We've 409 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: discussed that several times in our um how your brain 410 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: betrays you when you're in love. Yeah, exactly. I did 411 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: not mean to sound that bit. Yes, um, and already 412 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: a drug approved by the FDA, the Food and Drug 413 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: Administration here in the United States. Uh, it's it's it's 414 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: approved for inducing labor and pregnant women. Um you wow, 415 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: I forget what it's called. Uh potosan potosin I think 416 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 1: is what it's called. Uh. Yes, my my wife didn't 417 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: have to use it. Huh. That's fascinating. That's a good thing, right, 418 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: you want the minimum amount of yeah, and chemicals going 419 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 1: in during pregnancy. But it's used a lot of times 420 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: to induce Um. I don't want to throw anyone under 421 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: the bus here, but a lot of times used to 422 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: induce a labor when staff is being changed out in 423 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: a pear. It so that a new nurse or a 424 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: new set of people coming in don't have to just 425 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: pick up where the other whole crew left off, okay, 426 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: because they might not have the background knowledge of the 427 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: previous Yeah. I'm not saying that that's not officially what 428 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: it's used for. But if you're in a tight spot 429 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: and you need to get a baby out. It's also 430 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 1: really helpful and oxytocin. It turns out the levels of 431 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: this substance decline with age and both men and women. 432 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: And when oxytocin is injected into older mice over a 433 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: systematic regiment or schedule, the hormone quickly within a couple 434 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: of weeks, regenerates muscles by activating muscle stem cells. And 435 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 1: Wagers was following up on this anti aging work at Harvard, 436 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: where she started her own lab in two thousand and four. 437 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: She recruited the help of experts in various organs systems 438 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: to help her evaluate the specific impact of young blood 439 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: on the respective tissues of these organs. We've got a 440 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: couple of examples of her findings here. Yeah. Then she 441 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: worked with Robin Franklin, who was a neuroscientist at the 442 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: University of Cambridge in the UK. UH they kind of 443 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: discovered that young blood promotes the repairing of damage spinal 444 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: cords in older mice. So if you've got I mean, 445 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: that's that's huge. There are a lot of things that 446 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: you could hopefully apply that to in humans. If you 447 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: can work that out in mice. The implications of that 448 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: are pretty astounding. It's the implication, it's the implication. There 449 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: was another neuroscientist, Lee Ruben, with whom Wagers found that 450 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: young blood sparks the formation of new neurons in the 451 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: brain and old factory system against associated with spell. Yeah. Huge, huge, 452 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: if you can apply it. And then with cardiologist Richard 453 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 1: Lee at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, mass she 454 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 1: found that it reverses age related thickening of the walls 455 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 1: of the heart. Again, you've got heart, you've got brain, 456 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: you've got spinal cord. Huge improvements to the lives of 457 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: older people, older mice in this case, right, possibly people 458 00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 1: now Before before Matt and I begin to sound as 459 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: if we are telethon infomercial people shilling a new cure 460 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: to make your pet mouse live forever, must go to 461 00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:24,160 Speaker 1: the immediate question, which is the following. If this works 462 00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: in mice, If these techniques work in mice, could we 463 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: rejuvenate aging humans by feeding them the blood of younger, 464 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: healthy humans. We'll tell you the answer, or at least 465 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: as far as modern medicine is gone publicly after a 466 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, as you listen to this episode 467 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: and as we sit in this room and record it. 468 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: Research is pushing all of us in this direction, and 469 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: it's threatening to collide head on with what we understand 470 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: about ethics and morality in human experimentation, something that we've 471 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: been doing since humans could talk and move a scalpel 472 00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: around and or whatever other implement has been used in 473 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 1: the past. We've been pushing these boundaries, and it seems 474 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 1: like we're doing it again. One of the most immediate 475 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 1: aspects to consider here is the power and influence of 476 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: privately funded research or the very financially or socially powerful 477 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: individuals who are aging and ailing and interested and interested. 478 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: Because one thing most people seem to have in common, 479 00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,239 Speaker 1: fanatologists find people who study death find is that no 480 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,120 Speaker 1: one wants to die. No, it's you know, people do 481 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: at times, unfortunately and tragically take their own lives, but 482 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: by and large, humans are hardwired to want to live 483 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: for as long as possible, even in the worst of circumstances. 484 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,040 Speaker 1: That's why there are so many of us here today. 485 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: For example, when a private firm based in Hong Kong 486 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: learned of this research, they moved immediately to get in 487 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: the game. It turns out they made this move because 488 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: the family who owned this corporate dynasty had a prevalent 489 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:29,600 Speaker 1: history of Alzheimer's, and other private entities are attempting to 490 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: get in the game. There's one you may have read 491 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: about a few years back. Jesse Krimazen wants who wants 492 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 1: to bring this idea, this this young blood to the 493 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,400 Speaker 1: old transfusion treatment to the public with the creation of 494 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,240 Speaker 1: a company called Ambrusia. Ambrusia purports to rejuvenate the aging 495 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: and well to do with injections of younger plasma. Plasma 496 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: is the essentially the liquid component of blood and that 497 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,440 Speaker 1: looks kind of yellow, right, it does. And the plasma 498 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 1: is what's stored at blood banks. Yeah, absolutely, and it's 499 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: it's the stuff that has all of the antibodies and 500 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: all the really important stuff, all the good stuff, all 501 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: the all the all the important stuff. Plasma in this 502 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: case is going to come from people aged sixteen to currently. 503 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: Ambrosia has two locations, both of which I'm reading tea 504 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: leaves about. But I I'm making so many assumptions about this. 505 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: So one location is in San Francisco and ones in Tampa, Tampa. 506 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 1: So here's what I'm wondering and and Matt, I bet 507 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: you're wondering the same thing. And we we want to 508 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: know your opinion. Folks. San Francisco kind of makes sense 509 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: to me, home of like water bars and oxygen. There 510 00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: we go. Yeah, so maybe there's a maybe there's a 511 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: tech guru aspect to this, right, you gotta get that edge. However, 512 00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:11,280 Speaker 1: and then in Tampa there's a what's the most polite 513 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: way to say this, there's a ton of old people. Yeah, 514 00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: right on exactly a significant percentage of the population is retired. 515 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,399 Speaker 1: That's all right. I think you I think you said 516 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 1: it in a in a bit more evocative and dare 517 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: I say accurate way than I did? It was concise, 518 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: It was concise. It's important to note here in the 519 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 1: case of Ambrosia that younger does not mean infants. We 520 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: said their sixteen. Don't worry. No one is tossing toddlers 521 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: into a juicer as far as we know. Bad image, 522 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: but necessary, You're necessary for us to say that. Nor 523 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,240 Speaker 1: is this company at this point sewing people together or 524 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,879 Speaker 1: you know, practicing parabiosis on humans. Instead, they're offering, as 525 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: Matt said, straight up transfusions. Yea. And if you want 526 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:08,560 Speaker 1: to get this done. You can um, potentially, I can't. 527 00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: I don't think in this lifetime. Maybe I'll have to 528 00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 1: check with my accountant. Oh wait, I don't have an accountant. 529 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 1: All right, Well, no, I can't do this um And 530 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: the pricing plans will enroll almost anybody over thirty five 531 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: years of age. The fees, though, are totaling up to 532 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: eight thousand dollars per person per I don't know what 533 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:33,799 Speaker 1: you'd call it pop yeah, per transfusion right uh. And 534 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: they say that is covering the expense of the research, 535 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,120 Speaker 1: covering the raw cost of retrieving, maintaining, transporting the plasma. 536 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,320 Speaker 1: And it makes you wonder what happens to people in 537 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: those ten years between twenty five and thirty five. You're 538 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: too young two receive the treatment quote unquote treatment, you're 539 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: too old to donate. Just gotta make it through that 540 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: decade long wilderness. Your blood is just in stasis too, 541 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,439 Speaker 1: I guess, according to research, just not really getting better. 542 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: It's not getting worse, just kind of hanging. And ambrosia 543 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,239 Speaker 1: currently has it's had a lot of press, and it 544 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: obviously has a lot of people who believe in it 545 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,799 Speaker 1: enough to at least give it a try. But as 546 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:24,200 Speaker 1: quite a few critics. Critics are arguing that the parabiosis 547 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: experiments conducted on mice don't offer very much insight into 548 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,399 Speaker 1: how a one time transfusion could affect a human. So 549 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: Wagers from earlier said that in our studies, circulation between 550 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 1: a young mouse and old mouse was maintained through this 551 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: parabiosis for nearly four weeks, almost a month. And you're 552 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,080 Speaker 1: doing this for an hour or so, a couple of 553 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: hours maybe, right, I don't know, eight Granda pop. Additionally, 554 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 1: ethicists are concerned that ambrosia is that because ambrosia is 555 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: being financed by the participants, by the people who will 556 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:11,239 Speaker 1: receive these transfusions. I keep I wanted to do like 557 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,320 Speaker 1: an arch sinister voice every time I say young blood. 558 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: It's just such a sinister Gary oldman is Dracula phrase. 559 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:23,240 Speaker 1: You know, you just have to do like a licking 560 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: of your lips sound after you say it. That's all children. Yeah, 561 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 1: But there the ethical problem with this, or one of 562 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: the ethical problems, is that there are not straight up investors. 563 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: So if we're talking about people who are desperate to 564 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: mitigate the dilatory effects of aging, then they're going to 565 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: have a very difficult time being objective about the results, 566 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:54,520 Speaker 1: especially when we factor in the idea that the placebo 567 00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: effect does have measurable and significant physiological impacts upon a 568 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:07,320 Speaker 1: human body. Right man, Well, so let's let's see where 569 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,760 Speaker 1: we are. At least as of uh December, according to Ambrosia, 570 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:15,920 Speaker 1: they've infused twenty five people with young blood so up 571 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:21,320 Speaker 1: until December. It is now uh into so who knows, 572 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: maybe that number has doubled. We don't have notes from Ambrosia, 573 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: but I'm sure we will get them soon. Um. So 574 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: uh Karmazine claims that his participants are seeing miraculous results. Um, 575 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:35,680 Speaker 1: which is something you have to do when you have 576 00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: a company that does something like this. Patient with chronic 577 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: fatigue syndrome, for example, quote feels healthy for the first 578 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: time and looks younger, which is nice. And you know, 579 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: these kind of antidotes will help, you know, market the 580 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: study at least and get more people involved so we 581 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: get more data that that can't be a bad thing. 582 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,240 Speaker 1: But you know, it's not proof that the plasma infusions 583 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: actually work, and that would would be patients you know, 584 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,560 Speaker 1: should to believe these at all, at least go into 585 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: it thinking maybe this will work right. Yeah. One of 586 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: the reasons that drug approval moves so slowly is that 587 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: the well, aside from the endemic corruption in the pharmaceutical 588 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:21,840 Speaker 1: industry and the medical troup medtech industry um typically on paper, 589 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,720 Speaker 1: the reason why these things move so slowly is because 590 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: they're very important. They're literally putting people's lives in danger potentially, 591 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,160 Speaker 1: so there are a lot of hoops to jump through, 592 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,560 Speaker 1: and there should be quite a few hoops to jump through. 593 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: According to Jonathan Kimmelman, who is a bioethicist at McGill University, 594 00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 1: there are a lot of patient funded trials run by 595 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: companies that use the trials as a way to sell 596 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: products that would not be marketable because they'd have to 597 00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 1: be regulated by the f D A. Yes, And speaking 598 00:41:53,840 --> 00:42:00,160 Speaker 1: of a recent study concluded in November, uh it was 599 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: done at the Stanford University School of Medicine. There was 600 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:08,319 Speaker 1: a clinical trial looking at the safety, tolerability, and feasibility 601 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,840 Speaker 1: of administering infusions just what we've been talking about with 602 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,759 Speaker 1: ambrosia of blood plasma from young donors to participants with 603 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: mild to moderate Alzheimer's disease. Again, very similar thing that 604 00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:22,480 Speaker 1: we're trying to treat here with young blood, different study, 605 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,279 Speaker 1: which is a good thing because now you've got with 606 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: multiple studies, if you're getting the same results, then you're 607 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: getting closer to, you know, actually doing what a scientific 608 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 1: experiment is supposed to do. UM. This trial in particular 609 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,080 Speaker 1: was created to test a hypothesis put forth by this person, 610 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: Tony Weiss Corey. He is a doctor. He's a Stanford 611 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: Professor of neurology, and he's also a scientist at the 612 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:52,440 Speaker 1: Veterans Affairs in Palo Alto anyway, in California. His research UM, 613 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: he did research with mice as well, and again found 614 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 1: that factors in the blood of young mice can rejuvenate 615 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,879 Speaker 1: the brain tissue and improve cognitive performance an old mice. 616 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: You can even see a ted talk of him if 617 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: you want to. But anyway, in this one, it's again 618 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: a company, a private company that has at least a 619 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: hand in getting this research done and having this clinical 620 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: trial put on. It's called Alcahest and it quote holds 621 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:24,040 Speaker 1: intellectual property associated with the treatment regimen for this particular trial. 622 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,680 Speaker 1: And uh this uh, the Tony Weiss Karay gentleman, who 623 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: was not a part of this experiment at least according 624 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:34,160 Speaker 1: to Stanford, he is the co founder of this company 625 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: and also the chair of its scientific advisory board. So 626 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:44,080 Speaker 1: again you've got private, private interest to carry out these 627 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: kinds of trials to see if there's anything to this 628 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: young blood transfusion stuff, right, And we're also seeing that 629 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: a lot of these studies or trials conducted have relatively 630 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: small sample sizes. Yeah, and in this one there were 631 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: only eighteen human beings that were transfused. And this this 632 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: is the public state of affairs at the present. However, 633 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,040 Speaker 1: there are clear and present dangers with this sort of 634 00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: experimentation that go far above and way beyond something like 635 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 1: investor ethics and uh, you know, bureaucratic concerns. As we said, 636 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,719 Speaker 1: a transfusion is not parabiosis. So at this point there's 637 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: not a solid load of widely accepted evidence that indicates 638 00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:34,240 Speaker 1: any major health benefits, and that leads critics of places 639 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 1: like Ambrosia to claim they are only praying on the desperate. 640 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: So far, we do not know if anyone is practicing 641 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:49,560 Speaker 1: human parabiosis. In the past, there were certain grizzly experiments 642 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: that you can hear about in a little more depth 643 00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,399 Speaker 1: in our human Experimentation series. In the past, there were 644 00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:02,319 Speaker 1: experiments that approached some stuff like this, but perhaps the 645 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 1: most concise way to describe those experiments is to say 646 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: that the people conducting the experiments were in no way 647 00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: concerned about the benefits or even the survival rate. The 648 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,000 Speaker 1: benefits to or the survival rate of their patients, in 649 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,640 Speaker 1: a better word, for their patients would have been victims, 650 00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:24,560 Speaker 1: because we were talking about wartime experiments by people who 651 00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:32,760 Speaker 1: were absolute lunatics. Were there someone or some organization currently 652 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,720 Speaker 1: experimenting with human parabiosis at this point, it would almost 653 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,799 Speaker 1: certainly be secret. It would be classified because it would 654 00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:46,439 Speaker 1: be seven shades of illegal to do so if it's 655 00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,319 Speaker 1: going on currently. We would not know the age of 656 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: the participants either, which is another scary thing. If it 657 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,520 Speaker 1: was done legally, though, they would have to be over 658 00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:01,080 Speaker 1: eighteen unless they had, I guess permission from their parents. 659 00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if parents could sign up for that, 660 00:46:03,680 --> 00:46:08,680 Speaker 1: but yeah, legally, they would all have to be over 661 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:13,840 Speaker 1: eighteen for for some kind of consent to for informed 662 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:20,080 Speaker 1: consent to occur within the US at least yeah, legally legally, again, 663 00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:24,680 Speaker 1: legally for that to happen. If someone is experimenting with 664 00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,560 Speaker 1: human parabiosis. They're also running the risk of parabiosis disease, 665 00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: which we mentioned earlier from those experiments in the nineteen fifties, 666 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:38,080 Speaker 1: and the chances here's where we get. We go on 667 00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:46,919 Speaker 1: some disturbing breadcrumbs. You're ready, Okay, So if we're experimenting, 668 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: if our species experimenting with human parabiosis currently, then there's 669 00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,760 Speaker 1: that risk. Was eleven of the sixty nine rat pairs 670 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:02,000 Speaker 1: right experienced parabiosis disease died after a littlehile fatal rejection. 671 00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:06,919 Speaker 1: The chances of this disease occurring are greatly reduced when 672 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,680 Speaker 1: the participants are increasingly similar. For our purposes, when the 673 00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: participants are increasingly related. So, next breadcrumb, what would your 674 00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 1: closest relationship be for this experiment? What other individual would 675 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 1: create the highest chance of success in a experiment with parabiosis? Well, 676 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:34,880 Speaker 1: one question, One might say a child, taking your own child. 677 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:43,120 Speaker 1: One might say a sibling. But we have another we 678 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:47,880 Speaker 1: have another field of technology that is moving at a 679 00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,759 Speaker 1: rapid pace. Now, what's closer than a sibling, Closer than 680 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 1: a child, even closer than a fraternal twin? A clone? 681 00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:02,879 Speaker 1: Spot on Matt, a clone? What so imagine we've talked 682 00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,680 Speaker 1: about this before with the possibility of growing organs, right, 683 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:11,680 Speaker 1: or growing growing clones four spare organs, would it be? 684 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: Is there a possible future where there would be a 685 00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:22,760 Speaker 1: clone grown to act as a filter for your blood 686 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 1: that's younger than you, that is just kept somewhere and 687 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,480 Speaker 1: you just plug up to it. Maybe when you hit 688 00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,880 Speaker 1: a certain age, you have a bunch of your genetic 689 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,080 Speaker 1: material put away in a vault somewhere, and then that's 690 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: used to begin creating clones of you at another certain age, 691 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,600 Speaker 1: or maybe once you hit that age, like let's say 692 00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:46,799 Speaker 1: eighteen or so, then you just continuously throughout the rest 693 00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,239 Speaker 1: of your life, once you hit thirty five, use these 694 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,120 Speaker 1: clones to be attached to you for a little while. 695 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:58,000 Speaker 1: And there's so little published science on this. There're absolutely 696 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:05,640 Speaker 1: no long terms buddies, no longitudinal studies of the nature 697 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:11,040 Speaker 1: of this effect. Like what if what if someone begins 698 00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,719 Speaker 1: engaging in some sort of thing like this, let's say, 699 00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: for the sake of argument, actual parabiosis, right, and let's 700 00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:22,960 Speaker 1: say for a month every year or every yeah, for 701 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: month every year something, they're they're stitched next to some 702 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:32,040 Speaker 1: source of young blood, and what happens to that. What 703 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: is what does their body look like physiologically when they 704 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,080 Speaker 1: are sixty five, when they're seventy five. You know, how 705 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:41,640 Speaker 1: long does this go? No one knows. No one knows 706 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:46,799 Speaker 1: because it's unless you're very careful. It's evil to do 707 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:53,080 Speaker 1: that kind of experimentation. Additionally, this is even weirder. This 708 00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: is not as scary, but it is weird. Evidence indicates 709 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: that injecting human blood plasma into the bodies of elderly 710 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,359 Speaker 1: mice might have beneficial effects on the mice. Hold on, 711 00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:10,280 Speaker 1: putting human plasma into a mouse helps the mouse, That's 712 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,080 Speaker 1: what it seems to say. There's a there's an article 713 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,359 Speaker 1: about this in Nature magazine when we have a quote here, 714 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,080 Speaker 1: Oh yes, they they say. Infusing this human plasma into 715 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:24,240 Speaker 1: the veins of elderly mice, they found improved the animal's 716 00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,720 Speaker 1: ability to navigate mazes and to learn to avoid areas 717 00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,759 Speaker 1: of their cages that deliver painful electrical shocks. When the 718 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,960 Speaker 1: researchers dissected the animal's brains, they found that the cells 719 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,439 Speaker 1: in the hippocampus, the region associated with learning and memory, 720 00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,359 Speaker 1: expressed genes that caused neurons to form more connections in 721 00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: the brain. This didn't happen in mice treated with blood 722 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,040 Speaker 1: from older human donors, so only the young blood helps. Right, 723 00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: So plasma from older humans did not have much of 724 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:58,440 Speaker 1: an effect. Plasma from younger sources uh umbilical cords specifically, 725 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 1: by the way, turns out to be hop notch. What 726 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 1: could go wrong? What could go wrong with this knowledge? Right? Oh? Gosh? Well, 727 00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: for now, it appears that any claims that young blood 728 00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:19,160 Speaker 1: or plasma will extend human lifespan are false, or at 729 00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,520 Speaker 1: least we just don't have the data, right, We don't know. 730 00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,239 Speaker 1: The data is just not there. Yeah, and experiment to 731 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:28,360 Speaker 1: test such claims would take upwards of six years, first 732 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,440 Speaker 1: waiting for the mice to age them for them to 733 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:34,680 Speaker 1: die naturally, than analyzing the data. If we have funding 734 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,480 Speaker 1: to do this, says Michael conboy, I do it, but 735 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: we don't. Still, he adds, after a moment of hesitation, 736 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:46,839 Speaker 1: I hope that someone somewhere is keep in mind he's 737 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,799 Speaker 1: just talking about mice. Yeah, just mice, just mice, and 738 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,759 Speaker 1: just in the nicest of way. Michael conboy. Um. Yeah. So, 739 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,040 Speaker 1: so currently it appears the best possible case we can 740 00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 1: hope for is the isolation of some civic proteins or 741 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: other elements that are found in young blood. These special 742 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,759 Speaker 1: reasons that rejuvenation occurs, because this could lead to amazingly 743 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,960 Speaker 1: effective treatments for age related ailments. We're talking to Alzheimer's, 744 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,960 Speaker 1: dementia and so on, without requiring people to bathe in 745 00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 1: the blood of virgins or you know, suck on human 746 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:23,799 Speaker 1: numbilical cords. Yeah, yeah, exactly. The hope would be that 747 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:28,600 Speaker 1: our species could isolate, let's say, a specific protein, and 748 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: that specific protein could be marketed, right, created in some 749 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,280 Speaker 1: different one. And of course this research is very expensive, 750 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,440 Speaker 1: it's very complicated. Uh. You will hear a lot of 751 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:48,880 Speaker 1: people say that as the world or the owners of 752 00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,799 Speaker 1: the world now seek to move away from an ownership 753 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,759 Speaker 1: economy to a service economy, you'll hear people alleged that 754 00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,160 Speaker 1: quote unquote big Pharma is not in the business of 755 00:52:59,200 --> 00:53:03,560 Speaker 1: selling cure. There in the business of selling scheduled treatments. 756 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,440 Speaker 1: So then the concern would be, you know, is it 757 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:10,520 Speaker 1: it's not a cure all that will help somebody's Alzheimer's, 758 00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,040 Speaker 1: It's a pill that they have to pay for that 759 00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:16,440 Speaker 1: they have to take once a day. Well, yeah, if 760 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,560 Speaker 1: you've got a private company that's based on making profit 761 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,759 Speaker 1: off of something and growing that company to hopefully one 762 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:26,320 Speaker 1: day sell it or make more money, you don't usually 763 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,240 Speaker 1: want to cure something, right, you want to put yourself 764 00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:30,920 Speaker 1: out of business. But then there are people on the 765 00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:35,120 Speaker 1: other side who will say that private industry is the 766 00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:41,399 Speaker 1: is a necessary factor for this kind of research. But 767 00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,160 Speaker 1: but still, but still, uh. It does allow and this 768 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:47,520 Speaker 1: is not us being alarmist. It does allow for the 769 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:50,399 Speaker 1: possibility of a world in which the rich find yet 770 00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:57,080 Speaker 1: another avenue for victimizing the poor. Imagine a planet's worth 771 00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:02,880 Speaker 1: of real life Elizabeth Bathy's practice seeing non consensual parabiosis 772 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,960 Speaker 1: research is still underweight, and it's safe to say that 773 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,080 Speaker 1: we'll hear more about this in the near to mid future. 774 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,239 Speaker 1: But Matt and I want to know what you think. 775 00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:15,360 Speaker 1: Where do you land on this research given that it 776 00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,560 Speaker 1: can mitigate the effects of aging, but we should say 777 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,360 Speaker 1: not give people immortality so far as we know, is 778 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:24,840 Speaker 1: it worth pursuing and where do you see it headed? 779 00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,680 Speaker 1: So in my opinion, I think you're going to see 780 00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:31,640 Speaker 1: more of what the the character that's kind of modeled 781 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,319 Speaker 1: after Peter Teal on what is that what show an 782 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,120 Speaker 1: HBO show, Silicon Valley, that that character that he's just 783 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,120 Speaker 1: got a young guy that comes around his house a 784 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:44,480 Speaker 1: couple of times a week and they just do a 785 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,279 Speaker 1: blood transfusion. I think that's just gonna be a thing. 786 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:52,839 Speaker 1: That's like how the way uber drivers have. There are 787 00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,320 Speaker 1: so many uber drivers in the world, it's just proliferated. 788 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:59,600 Speaker 1: I think there will just be that the transfusion person 789 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,279 Speaker 1: new aspect of the gig economy. I really think so. 790 00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: And it's just something you do on Tuesdays and Thursdays 791 00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:09,279 Speaker 1: over at uh you know, Bill's house or whatever that 792 00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,399 Speaker 1: guy is that lives in the mansion on the hill. 793 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,200 Speaker 1: I have no doubt that someone will go off the 794 00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,920 Speaker 1: reservation and try this on their own, especially if they 795 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:24,279 Speaker 1: can afford a relatively unethical doctor two just participate in 796 00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,800 Speaker 1: this kind of experimentation. But uh well, and the doctor 797 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 1: could be ethical. It depends really and how much they 798 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,799 Speaker 1: want to pay the group, how much work they want 799 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:38,920 Speaker 1: to put into it. But I'm I think it really 800 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:44,480 Speaker 1: depends on what data bears out here. If if there is, 801 00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:50,080 Speaker 1: it turns out real tangible results and evidence, then it's 802 00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 1: Katie Barr the door you know, we don't know where 803 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:57,240 Speaker 1: it stops. But if it is a way to build 804 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:01,920 Speaker 1: the frightened and the aging out of money in an 805 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:08,279 Speaker 1: attempt to I guess, pay the ferryman a couple of 806 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,799 Speaker 1: extra coins to stay on his side of the river 807 00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,799 Speaker 1: sticks for a while, and people will throw money at it, 808 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,040 Speaker 1: of course. But here's the question that bugs me the most, Matt. 809 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:23,960 Speaker 1: How much are the donors of Ambrosia getting paid? Oh gosh, yeah, 810 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:33,719 Speaker 1: that's a good question, because you're in sorry man um. 811 00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:38,480 Speaker 1: Another question that bugs me is what happened to parabiosis 812 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,200 Speaker 1: research when it dropped out, when it fell out of favor. 813 00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,560 Speaker 1: Why did it disappear from the mainstream radar for decades? 814 00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:52,319 Speaker 1: Was it animal rights? Was it something else? We'd love 815 00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,160 Speaker 1: to hear your opinion. That concludes our episode for today, 816 00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,160 Speaker 1: but never fear, Matt, Noel, Paul and I will be 817 00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,919 Speaker 1: back there very soon. In the meantime. You can find 818 00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,040 Speaker 1: us on Instagram. You can find us on Facebook. You 819 00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:07,040 Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter, where we're conspiracy stuff most 820 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:10,239 Speaker 1: of the time. Sometimes conspiracy stuff show actually just once 821 00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:12,839 Speaker 1: on Instagram. Also, if you don't want to do any 822 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:14,239 Speaker 1: of that stuff, if you don't want to go to 823 00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,920 Speaker 1: our website Stuff they don't want you to know dot com. 824 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,520 Speaker 1: You can just send us an email. It's the best way. 825 00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:42,800 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at how stuff Works dot com.