1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,840
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I heart podcast

2
00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: and I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, managing editor of Crypto for

3
00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:27,800
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. It's Monday September. Today will explore a sector

4
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:32,680
Speaker 1: of the crypto universe that's booming. Companies that specialize in

5
00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 1: finding vulnerabilities in software and code are flourishing. Why? Because

6
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,920
Speaker 1: crypto hacks and frauds are themselves booming, with some estimates

7
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,920
Speaker 1: as high as two billion dollars and losses stemming from

8
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,240
Speaker 1: these kinds of attacks. So the people who know how

9
00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:54,040
Speaker 1: to stop hacks from happening, who have specialist knowledge and

10
00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:57,639
Speaker 1: understanding and expertise, they're really raking in the cash right now.

11
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,640
Speaker 1: Bloomberg reports Olga Karif, somebody is going through the code

12
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:06,360
Speaker 1: line by line, essentially checking for any bugs, and senior

13
00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,080
Speaker 1: editor and Arera so you have then white hackers, which

14
00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 1: are the good guys who are trying to hack Um

15
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:13,960
Speaker 1: your project and obviously not steal the money, but just

16
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,520
Speaker 1: to prove that there is a problem. Join me now

17
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:27,200
Speaker 1: for more about these crypto sleuths. It's always such a

18
00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,160
Speaker 1: pleasure to do these episodes because I feel, like you know,

19
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: we've got like three different time zones happening at the

20
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:34,480
Speaker 1: same time, and folks, folks all around the world, which is,

21
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,600
Speaker 1: I think, an appropriate entry point for this episode because

22
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:43,040
Speaker 1: it covers, or will cover, crypto sleuths who are operating

23
00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: from all different corners of of countries and cities to

24
00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,160
Speaker 1: try to stop hacks and scams and other bad things

25
00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:55,160
Speaker 1: from happening Algo. What was the origin of this story,

26
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:58,000
Speaker 1: like how did you kind of come across these folks

27
00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,320
Speaker 1: and why are they gaining in Popu larity right now? Actually,

28
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,720
Speaker 1: it was Anna's idea. There we go. Might the question

29
00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,239
Speaker 1: for her. I don't know. I love when like editors

30
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,480
Speaker 1: are coming up with stories. So yeah, so thank you, Olga.

31
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,240
Speaker 1: You could have just run with it. I would have

32
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 1: been fine. So I was actually interviewing. It was like

33
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,240
Speaker 1: maybe my first week here, and I was speaking to

34
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,440
Speaker 1: someone who just raised money for their new defied protocol

35
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:26,960
Speaker 1: and I asked what they were going to spend the

36
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,360
Speaker 1: money for and he said security, security, it's been so

37
00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,399
Speaker 1: expensive and it's one of the people we quote, so

38
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,799
Speaker 1: the founder of Morphol Labs Um who said they spent

39
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 1: so much money, who told me in a telegram message

40
00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 1: with many ohs. Yeah, that is the actual quoting stories

41
00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:47,880
Speaker 1: like us, Oh, while for emphasis. Yeah, so you know,

42
00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: he brought it up and so I thought that's really interesting.

43
00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,240
Speaker 1: And he brought up the idea of auditors and I

44
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,280
Speaker 1: just found it was fascinating. You know that, that you

45
00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:58,240
Speaker 1: need to have your code audited, especially so now with

46
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 1: so many hacks. And he brought up, you know, how

47
00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 1: they're different firms, different levels of quality, but that it

48
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,200
Speaker 1: is important to spend a lot of money, and I

49
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,360
Speaker 1: think he mentioned how much they'd spent in one and

50
00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,120
Speaker 1: I thought, well, that's a lot of money to spend,

51
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,799
Speaker 1: especially if you're in a bear market and you might

52
00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:20,360
Speaker 1: have less money. M So Olga. Why does crypto need

53
00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,480
Speaker 1: what it is? You know, it's such an interesting Um

54
00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,960
Speaker 1: it's such an interesting situation in the crypto market where

55
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: billions are invested into a slew of different APPS, uh,

56
00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 1: and in a lot of cases these APPs are not

57
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:43,040
Speaker 1: well protected at all. So billions is being lost and that,

58
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,680
Speaker 1: I think, is getting fixed now and that's why all

59
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 1: of the security firms that Um Anna and I talked

60
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 1: to are benefiting, because the industry is waking up to

61
00:03:54,040 --> 00:04:00,960
Speaker 1: the need for greater security protections one of the biggest

62
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,200
Speaker 1: crypto high to date. Hacker stole about six hundred million

63
00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,760
Speaker 1: dollars from a blockchain system connected to the popular acts

64
00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,760
Speaker 1: the Infinity Online game, and it's the Ronan Bridge. Uh,

65
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 1: the blockchain that supports actually infinity says was hacked. The attack,

66
00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 1: many say, is shown what vulnerability these bridges provide because

67
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,520
Speaker 1: the rife with problems. The Computer Code, for instance, on

68
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 1: the bridges, is not audited, and that's what security experts

69
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:33,480
Speaker 1: say creates vulnerabilities. For years, probably since bitcoin was invented,

70
00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:35,640
Speaker 1: there have been people who have been finding exploits and

71
00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,320
Speaker 1: code vulnerabilities. What about two has meant that this much

72
00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,320
Speaker 1: money is surging into these companies now the size of

73
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:50,880
Speaker 1: the hacks is becoming just amazingly large. So earlier this year,

74
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:53,920
Speaker 1: for instance, one of the bridge lost more than six

75
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:57,480
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars in a hack. And then somebody has

76
00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,400
Speaker 1: to put this money back to to to give it

77
00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 1: to users, hopefully. And what we found out as a

78
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:06,960
Speaker 1: result of a lot of this bridge hacks is that

79
00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,400
Speaker 1: there are very sort of serious backers of this bridge.

80
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,239
Speaker 1: Is there are large financial companies that are now having

81
00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:18,120
Speaker 1: to cough up this funds and they are the ones

82
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:22,919
Speaker 1: waking up to the need for greater security and they're

83
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:26,480
Speaker 1: the ones putting the bills for this losses. I think

84
00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:30,080
Speaker 1: that's why the industry is starting to spend this money

85
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,720
Speaker 1: on security. So when you talk about those sorts of,

86
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,440
Speaker 1: you know, well capitalized, well funded, traditional investors, an example

87
00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 1: is when jump crypto had to bail out wormhole, the

88
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,360
Speaker 1: bridge that lost, you know, more than three hundred million dollars.

89
00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:47,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure it was a kind of a good sign

90
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 1: of confidence to the the overall wormhole ecosystem and really

91
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 1: said something about jumps willingness to, you know, support their

92
00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:59,280
Speaker 1: their portfolio companies, but a very expensive headache certainly. Why

93
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 1: has it taken crypto so long, other than the financial

94
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 1: incentives that you've described, to adopt this kind of philosophy shift?

95
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:13,200
Speaker 1: The CRYPTO INDUSTRY HAS UM essentially grown up with, you know,

96
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,680
Speaker 1: its its roots are, you know, a bunch of developers

97
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 1: getting together in chat rooms and throwing some code together,

98
00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 1: seeing how it works. It's a very sort of democratic,

99
00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:32,559
Speaker 1: grassroots structure and it's this structure that essentially Um has impeded, uh,

100
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: the the industry from implementing some of the basic measures

101
00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:44,799
Speaker 1: that any sort of company implements automatically the security measures

102
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:49,440
Speaker 1: that are being implemented. They can run from something basics

103
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,920
Speaker 1: such as, you know, somebody is going through the code

104
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:57,320
Speaker 1: line by line, essentially checking for any bugs Um. In

105
00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,440
Speaker 1: addition to that, what a lot of the security companies

106
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:06,960
Speaker 1: are doing, they're also deploying software bots that's essentially monitor

107
00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 1: what's happening in the APP and already in the team

108
00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,840
Speaker 1: working on the APP that say they got hacked, because

109
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 1: what we saw earlier this year was that, you know,

110
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:22,040
Speaker 1: sometimes they would pass and the APP developers don't even

111
00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,239
Speaker 1: know that the APP got hacked. So we're talking about

112
00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 1: some very, very basic steps that are now increasingly being taken.

113
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,080
Speaker 1: You know, one aspect, I think, and it might be

114
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 1: a skeptical in me, but part of it is also

115
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,760
Speaker 1: made because no one, because it's distributed, who's going to

116
00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,880
Speaker 1: get in trouble if something goes wrong. So if no

117
00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 1: one's responsible, like no person, no entity necessarily, then you

118
00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 1: might have less of an incentive because you know, if

119
00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,880
Speaker 1: something goes wrong, well sorry. And also initially, you know,

120
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: the sums at risk weren't that big, whereas now, and

121
00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,960
Speaker 1: especially because some of these hacks happened during a rally.

122
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 1: Everything gets multiplied by like like it's fifty higher. So

123
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 1: you know, a hack now might be a lot less

124
00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,280
Speaker 1: lost than it would have been six months ago. So

125
00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,120
Speaker 1: I think it's like, as the industry matures and more

126
00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 1: mature players step in, you have some of the requirements,

127
00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,480
Speaker 1: or at least you know the investors that are coming

128
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 1: in will expect some of the same standards they're used

129
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 1: to in other sectors. Because, for example, you mentioned banks,

130
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,960
Speaker 1: right like if a bank gets hacked, even if it's

131
00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 1: they're just their website or something's down for three seconds,

132
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, imagine you are you aren't able to access

133
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:41,240
Speaker 1: your bank account for five minutes. That's a huge deal

134
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,200
Speaker 1: and regulators will step in, or at least they'll want

135
00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,959
Speaker 1: to know what's going on. They'll be like politicians talking

136
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,760
Speaker 1: about it like because obviously you expect to be able

137
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,560
Speaker 1: to access your money, whereas here I think the threshold

138
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,600
Speaker 1: and the standards have been lower. But slowly people are

139
00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:57,920
Speaker 1: realizing that, you know, I need to be able to

140
00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,400
Speaker 1: access it's my money and having low standard for it

141
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 1: doesn't it's not okay. Is there something cultural about this

142
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 1: attitude of well, we're only going to take this seriously

143
00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,360
Speaker 1: when you know billions of dollars or at play and

144
00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:16,080
Speaker 1: we're going to have to hire in outside people, rather

145
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:17,760
Speaker 1: than this being something we can sort of solve as

146
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,160
Speaker 1: a community? I think crypto is also a bit individualistic

147
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 1: in my experience. I don't know if maybe I'm doing

148
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:26,880
Speaker 1: it a disservice, but I feel like there's a lot

149
00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:29,800
Speaker 1: over the years with all the crashes that I've sort

150
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,360
Speaker 1: of covered, there's a lot of like well, they lost

151
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 1: their money whatever, like nobody ever seems to be sad

152
00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 1: for people who have lost the money. It's like you

153
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 1: weren't smart enough because you kept it on an exchange.

154
00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 1: You weren't smart enough because you should have known. Like

155
00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,240
Speaker 1: there's very much this sense of like, you know, it's

156
00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:48,200
Speaker 1: like the wild west, still in the mentality you know,

157
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:52,240
Speaker 1: you should protect yourself, like very much a pioneer mentality,

158
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:53,960
Speaker 1: like if you lose your money, then it's your like

159
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,800
Speaker 1: it's your fault. So I think maybe there's more thinking

160
00:09:56,840 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 1: about sort of the collective right now, like of an

161
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,839
Speaker 1: actual community, whereas before it's like it's been sort of well,

162
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,600
Speaker 1: he lost like two million whatever. He should have known

163
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 1: to keep it under his bed up. Next more from

164
00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,440
Speaker 1: Bloomberg reports to Olga Karif and from Bloomberg senior editor

165
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:18,160
Speaker 1: Anna Arera on the growth of crypto security companies. We'll

166
00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:30,560
Speaker 1: be right back. There is a degree of seriousness associated

167
00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,160
Speaker 1: with I'm locked out of my money. It's not like

168
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:38,200
Speaker 1: twitters down disaster, a bunch of journalist are freaking out

169
00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,400
Speaker 1: about it. It's like you suddenly do not have access

170
00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 1: to your money, and I've always been struck by the

171
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,599
Speaker 1: not just the individuality that you describe on it, but

172
00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 1: also like the casualness right where people will be like, well,

173
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,480
Speaker 1: you know stuff and Crypto is not gonna work. Sometimes

174
00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:54,959
Speaker 1: it's gonna go down. Buy orb aware that kind of thing.

175
00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,560
Speaker 1: But as the sums involved have gotten bigger and bigger,

176
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,520
Speaker 1: that's not something that an individual, whether dealing with a

177
00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,640
Speaker 1: few hundred dollars worth of tokens or several thousand or more,

178
00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:07,240
Speaker 1: depending on their individual wealth, like. That's not an argument

179
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,280
Speaker 1: that they're impressed by. I'm thinking about, you know, like

180
00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:17,240
Speaker 1: the voyager and the Celsius withdrawal freezes and how, initially

181
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,320
Speaker 1: a lot of the response to that was well, like well,

182
00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,320
Speaker 1: people should have known better than to put their money

183
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 1: in Crypto like what? What can you expect? You should

184
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,840
Speaker 1: accept this risk, and there's this kind of like cavaliernus

185
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:29,960
Speaker 1: about it as well, to your point about, you know,

186
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,600
Speaker 1: the pioneer. So what I wonder for Y'all is, when

187
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,079
Speaker 1: you talk to these security experts, when you talk to

188
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,960
Speaker 1: these folks that are being brought in to a culture

189
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 1: that has not necessarily been welcoming of them before, how

190
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,680
Speaker 1: are they finding it right? Are they finding that people

191
00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,320
Speaker 1: are going to listen to them, or they're taking their

192
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 1: code reviews seriously? Are they taking their device seriously, or

193
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,440
Speaker 1: is it more of an uphill battle? I think just

194
00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,480
Speaker 1: the amount that they're getting paid, like they also had

195
00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 1: an example of bug bounties right like, which is a

196
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:03,480
Speaker 1: bit different, is when a project says we'll pay uh too.

197
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,360
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I think it was like six million

198
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:09,080
Speaker 1: or something less or higher than that they were going

199
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,360
Speaker 1: to pay to someone who would find a bug like openly.

200
00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 1: So you have then white hackers, which are the good

201
00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,560
Speaker 1: guys who are trying to hack Um your project and

202
00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 1: obviously not steal the money, but just to prove that

203
00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,760
Speaker 1: there is a problem. So I think the fact that

204
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,160
Speaker 1: they're getting paid that much means that, you know, they

205
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,160
Speaker 1: are serious about it and more serious about it than before.

206
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,000
Speaker 1: There was a recent example, just in August, of a

207
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:38,360
Speaker 1: company that provides advice to an Ft. you know, folks

208
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,319
Speaker 1: do making N F T projects about how they should

209
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,760
Speaker 1: structure their mints. Um, they're called rug pull finder and they,

210
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 1: you know, they look at they look at different kinds

211
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,079
Speaker 1: of frauds and they didn't mint and got exploited and

212
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,080
Speaker 1: like no time flats there there was a technical exploit

213
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,720
Speaker 1: in the code and folks were like, uh, how did

214
00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:59,360
Speaker 1: this happen? You'll are supposed to be experts, and they

215
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,560
Speaker 1: conceded that they did not in fact audit the code

216
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:08,040
Speaker 1: themselves or use a third party. Now, first of all,

217
00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:12,080
Speaker 1: dramatic irony. Second of all, it does seem like even

218
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,120
Speaker 1: people who are preaching, you know, the benefits of like

219
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,160
Speaker 1: take more steps, be more thoughtful or not themselves always

220
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,040
Speaker 1: following this advice. What is it really going to take

221
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,360
Speaker 1: for these kinds of services to be one, you know,

222
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:28,080
Speaker 1: kind of brought in house, but to just like listened to,

223
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 1: whether they're in house or Third Party Craig lators? I

224
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,680
Speaker 1: think it's a standard answer, like, you know, the only

225
00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 1: one of the few things I remember from my many

226
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,080
Speaker 1: years to get a lot of degree is that no

227
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:48,160
Speaker 1: one does anything unless there's you're they're forced to by enforcement,

228
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:49,920
Speaker 1: you know, or like you get punished for doing it.

229
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,319
Speaker 1: Like you're not going to do something that's not in

230
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,360
Speaker 1: your best economic interest unless you know you have to,

231
00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:58,920
Speaker 1: because it's not something you'll do out of the goodness

232
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,200
Speaker 1: of your heart. Again, maybe that's a skeptic in me,

233
00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,079
Speaker 1: but but I feel like once regulators will be like, okay,

234
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,760
Speaker 1: so you big fund want to put money in this project.

235
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,240
Speaker 1: What is its security? What are the like? What's happening

236
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 1: with the custody? Where the keys? where? What's you know,

237
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,840
Speaker 1: who's audited, the code and all that. Until that happens,

238
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,960
Speaker 1: then you know you can sort of make it secure

239
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:23,240
Speaker 1: because you care about it, but maybe they'll still be

240
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,760
Speaker 1: shortcuts you might take at one point or another. Thank you, Olga,

241
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,440
Speaker 1: and thank you Anna. You can find more of Ogan

242
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,080
Speaker 1: and Anna's reporting on the Bloomberg terminal on Bloomberg Dot

243
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:37,360
Speaker 1: Com or follow them on twitter. Olga is at Olga

244
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,040
Speaker 1: Karif that's O L G A K H A R

245
00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,960
Speaker 1: I F and Anna is at Anna Arera. That's a

246
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:51,880
Speaker 1: N N A I R R B R a on

247
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,360
Speaker 1: the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto. CRYPTO minors who set

248
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,040
Speaker 1: up shop in Sweden and Norway are finding that they

249
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 1: are needing to move even further nor into the Arctic.

250
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,640
Speaker 1: Soaring power prices in Europe as a result of drought,

251
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:10,120
Speaker 1: political considerations like Russia's invasion of Ukraine and generally rising

252
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,920
Speaker 1: inflation have meant that that combination of abundant energy that's

253
00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,840
Speaker 1: also low cost is getting harder and harder to find.

254
00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg and

255
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,560
Speaker 1: I heart radio. For more shows from I heart radio,

256
00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 1: visit the I heart radio APP, apple podcasts or wherever

257
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,480
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Send US your comments, questions or

258
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,520
Speaker 1: suggestions for the show to Crypto at Bloomberg Dot net

259
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 1: or find us on twitter. We're at CRYPTO. The supervising

260
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,640
Speaker 1: producer of Bloomberg Crypto is Vicky Verglina. Our senior producer

261
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 1: is Janet Babin. Our producer is Mohammed Farouk. Associate producer

262
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,920
Speaker 1: is Moses on them Desta wonder at is our engineer.

263
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:59,400
Speaker 1: Original Music by Leo Sidron. I'm Stacy Maria Schmal. We'll

264
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 1: be back tomorrow. The stout that at the