1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump mom never told you? 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: From House to works dot Com. Hey, welcome to the podcast. 4 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: This is Molly and I'm Kristen Kristin. Ready for our question? 5 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: What do you Santa? Instant Van Gogh, Willie Nelson, Abraham Lincoln, 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: O Chee Min and Charles Darwin having common I wish 7 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: I could think of a really funny what do you 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: response to that? Molly, But I'm gonna guess beards. That 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: is true. I guess you did your research this week. 10 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: I did. That's very handy for our conversation. That you've 11 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: read about beards. It helps on weeks today that I 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: read things so true. And as you have probably guessed, 13 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about beards today. So this one's 14 00:00:50,000 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: one for the fellas man who are always right again 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: asking why we never talked about things that your mom 16 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: Semmer told you. Here's one about beards. But ladies, don't worry. 17 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: You're gonna learn lots of secrets about men that they 18 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: don't even know about themselves. Because Molly, let's not even 19 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 1: let's let pigeonhole ourselves to beards only we're gonna talk 20 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: about stubble mustaches, maybe a mention of a soul patch, 21 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: mutton chops, sideburns. Yeah, guys, this is for you. I 22 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: think I specifically emailed Molly with an article saying, let's 23 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: do one for the guys. All right, guys, whether you 24 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,399 Speaker 1: are bearded or not, it turns out you're making a 25 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: statement about yourself. But before we get to what you're saying, 26 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: let's do one of our favorite things here on the 27 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: podcast and go back in history, back in jime. How 28 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: this information is coming from a book called One Thousand Beards. Molly, 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,839 Speaker 1: remind me of the author's name, if you don't mind. 30 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: Alan D. Peterkin. Alan D. Peterkin now Alandie Peterkin tells 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: us that the history of male facial hair is actually 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: a history of disappearances and serendipitous rediscoveries, which I love. Yes, 33 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: I will say just this about the entire podcast. There 34 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: are some great quotes out there about facial hair, things 35 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: you did not even think about. But yes, it come 36 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: into vogue, they come out of vogue. As Peterkin does, 37 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: you can tell a history of the world through what 38 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: the men were wearing on their faces. Right, let's talk 39 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: about ancient Egypt. Egyptians loved their beards. Well, upper class 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: Egyptians love their beards. They viewed them as status symbols, 41 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: and they were normally square shaped. The bigger the better. 42 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: They would braid them, they would paint them, they would 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,959 Speaker 1: dust them with gold, it would oil them, perfume them. 44 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: But if you were a slave, you had to be 45 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: clean shaven. Right. Basically, whenever we talk about what the 46 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: upper classes doing, just reverse it for what they made 47 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: the slaves do. Because when when, uh, when beards go 48 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: out of vogue, they immediately make their slaves grow them. 49 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: And then, in a little fun fact, an upward pointed 50 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: curl on the end of a beard was reserved for gods. Yes, now, Christen, 51 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: have you ever heard of barbarians? Well, in fact I have. 52 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: They're always trampling through history causing problems for people, and 53 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: barbarians simply means bearded ones. So that I think shows 54 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: that after the Egyptians there was some fear of beards. Yes, 55 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: beerds go out of vogue, and then we have them, 56 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: uh come back in the Middle Ages, usually as a 57 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: sign of allegiance. Right. For example, allegiance to the church. 58 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: The medieval Christian Church very anti beard, seen as demonic 59 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: and plus um. But despite the fact that in the 60 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: Bible and lovet because it says don't don't touch your beard. 61 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: So we've got some religious groups growing beards out, we've 62 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: got some people shaving them off to show allegiance with 63 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: with Christ. And you know, you can walk down the 64 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: street and see what a person believes based on their beer, 65 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: which I think is still true today, but also how 66 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: you feel about your country because if you know how 67 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 1: many wars have been fought over beards, I was not 68 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: aware of this. It goes back for even back to 69 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: ancient Persia. The Persians actually fought the Tartars. When the 70 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: Tartars tried to force the Persians Persian in to grow 71 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: a specific type of beard. Persons, we're not having it. 72 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: So they're like, you know, let's just get rid of these. 73 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: It was too much on the front to say, like, 74 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: here's what you do. But they were not the last 75 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: people to order how a beard would be worn. Because 76 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: one of my favorite Henry the six forbids mustaches in 77 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: there just does not like mustaches, you know, And if 78 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: I were king, I might make the same decree today. 79 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: The thing is, they always seem to make their decree 80 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: based on whether they can or cannot grow the question, 81 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 1: the hair in question. Because um, if we if we 82 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: fast forward a little bit, uh, Louis the thirteenth, he 83 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: wears a wig to hide his baldness, and then you 84 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: know everyone else has to wear wigs. And then he 85 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: cut all his um, you know, his followers beards off 86 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 1: and he makes them he just leaves them with like 87 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,480 Speaker 1: this mustache and the small little tuft of like ges 88 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: left him with the soul patch, old school soul patch, 89 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: and um, you know, everyone started wearing that because that's 90 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: what the king had said. But really, just Louie just 91 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 1: couldn't getting hair grown anywhere because you know, some guys 92 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: it will come in, the full beard will come in, 93 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 1: and other guys they just they just have little patches around. 94 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: We'll get into that. It's kind of funny unless you 95 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: probably have that patchy problem. And then in case, it's okay, 96 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 1: it's fine, I have no problem with it now. Probably 97 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: one of the best examples of a decree to do 98 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: something about your facial hair is Peter the Great, because 99 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,040 Speaker 1: he wanted to show that Russia was like the rest 100 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: of the Western world, so he orders all the nobles 101 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: to shave their beards off. Yeah, the Russians used to 102 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: support these really amazing full beards and then, like you said, 103 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: it was finally time to uh shut up their image 104 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: the global scale. So they cut off those beards, and 105 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: you faced taxes if you didn't. And I mean many 106 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 1: leaders over time. Henry the Eighth he texts people with beards, 107 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: so it was a money raiser for some. Now, Chris, 108 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: and you sent me this really interesting article by Susan Walton, 109 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: and it's called from Squalid Impropriety to Manly Respectability The 110 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: arrival of beards, mustache and martial values in the eighteen 111 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: fifties in England. And I think this paper was a 112 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: really good case study of how exactly beards have gone 113 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: in and out of vogue over time by focusing on 114 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: this specific period in England because at the time when 115 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 1: when the paper, I guess in the early eighteen fifties, 116 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: beards were not in vogue at all, only among like 117 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 1: poets and artists and people that no one respectable would 118 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: want to do, more of the working class. Uh. And 119 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: then the British government realized that it kind of needed 120 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: to build up its military ranks. Now. The reason they 121 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 1: needed to do this was because in eighteen fifty four 122 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: war was declared in Russia and hence we have the 123 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: beginning of the Crimean War. And suddenly you start having 124 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: these images floating back to the British homeland of these bearded, 125 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 1: tough looking soldiers on the front lines, and slowly you 126 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 1: started to get this association building between these masculine soldiers 127 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: and their wartime beards. But you know, also they made 128 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: a good argument, a health argument. They'd say, if you 129 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: don't have a beard, then you won't have anything to 130 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: filter out all the dangerous things you're gonna encounter out 131 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: on the battlefield. But which I mean, you might catch 132 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: a cold, you might get a toothache. Clearly God has 133 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: given us beards to protect us from these outwardly you know, 134 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: germs and diseases. I mean, that was a real argument 135 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: that they made at that time. Yeah, like a like 136 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: a natural surgical mask. Yeah, because some people wear on 137 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: public transit and it really freaks me out sometimes. So yeah, 138 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: they made the argument first that hey, this will serve 139 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: a sanitary function, This is for public health. You need 140 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: to wear this beard. Now, one thing that we haven't 141 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: mentioned that's really important in this whole rising beard popularity 142 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: is actually a year before or is it cleared in 143 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: Russia in eighteen fifty three. Well, the British military is 144 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: really starting to rustle up some excitement, trying to get 145 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: some men, new men into the fold. They set up 146 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: this fake battle ground battle camp at this place called 147 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 1: Chop Them. Yeah, they're gonna do some field exercises for 148 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: the public, kind of like when we have like Civil 149 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: War reenactment is how I imagine it. Well, except this 150 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: was before real war. Yes, so exactly different from the 151 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: example that I just gave. But yes it was a 152 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: group of men getting together. Because you gotta know it 153 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: at the time, we probably haven't given enough background this, 154 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: but like at the time, Britain was anti military, they 155 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: did not have much of a military. But they've got 156 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: this growing conflict you know, outside the country they've got 157 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: to get involved in. So one thing they've got to 158 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: do is persuade the British men that they're manly enough 159 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: to fight. So part of this argument is going to 160 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: be showing them how fun shooting guns is. And then 161 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: to persuade them that they're mainly enough by growing the beard, 162 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: So tell them what happened to Chopham, Well, chop them 163 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: really became this public spectacle. People would come out and 164 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: just to see these soldiers out in the fields see 165 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:04,400 Speaker 1: the skirmishes. The ladies were very taken with these rugged 166 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: outdoors these soldiers. Who doesn't love a display of masculinity. 167 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: Another podcast at another time, Molly um and one thing 168 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: that these skirmishes that chop them popularized beard right because 169 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: the papers of the day sent reporters who drew pictures 170 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: and whether the men had beards or not, they were 171 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: all drawn with beards, and the reports would say things 172 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: exactly like you were saying. With those women. They'd be like, man, 173 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: the women share loved these men with beards fighting. So 174 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: it was using beards as part of the propaganda to 175 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: get England ready to fight this war. Right, do you 176 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: want to be a handsome, desirable young man in Britain, 177 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: Well you should grow a beard and join the army. 178 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: And then for a while the British Army required their 179 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: soldiers to have facial hair on their upper lips. They 180 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: couldn't shave at all for a long time, like mustaches 181 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: basically required if you're going to be in the ranks, 182 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: and you know, if you want to bring it back 183 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: to our own country, Kristen, think about the Civil War. 184 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: Most men, you when you see pictures and paintings of 185 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,559 Speaker 1: the day, they had facial hair or some really great shops, 186 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: mutton shops, and not just because they were at war 187 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 1: and couldn't shave it, just it was this sign to 188 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: your enemy, like I am ready to take you. And 189 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: it's probably also a bit more terrifying maybe on the 190 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: field if you encounter this kind of grizzly man with 191 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,439 Speaker 1: a huge beard and mutton chops and maybe a clean 192 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: shaven more pub Christen, you have just provided the most 193 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: amazing transition to what we're going to talk about next, 194 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: which is what beards actually mean, because you're already starting 195 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: to say, like, what does a beard mean? The symbolism 196 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: of the facial hair, and then you had no idea 197 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: the politics that you're wearing on your face. So let 198 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: us leave the past behind and move back into the present. 199 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: All right, we're back in the present, and and well, 200 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: let's I'll say in the past for just one second. 201 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: Yesterday is when I read this paper that now we're 202 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: going to talk about, and of all the things I 203 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:09,599 Speaker 1: read to prepare for this podcast, Kristen, I don't know 204 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: if I love anything as much as I love this paper. 205 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: Molly really did love this paper. She kept sending me 206 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: just snippets throughout the day of her her favorite sentences 207 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: from this paper. All Right, this paper is called I'm 208 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 1: Sick of Shaving every Morning, or the Cultural Implications of 209 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: Male Facial Presentation. It's by Michael John Pinfold, who was 210 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: at the School of Media and Design at Cheltenham and 211 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 1: Gloucester College of Higher Education in jolly Old England, which, 212 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: by the way, is the home of the Handlebar Mustache Club. 213 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: So England has a long and storied history of a 214 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: wonderful facial hair. Now, just to lay the foundation for 215 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: what we're about, just tass y'all's way. In terms of 216 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 1: beard symbolism, may presents the sentence from the introduction of 217 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: Penful's paper, I hope you will the whispering whisps of 218 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: men's beards contribute to some all like system which acts 219 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: in contingency with the cultural implications about masculinity as a 220 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: concept and male subjectivity as a construct. Now, you guys, 221 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: have probably thought that Molly and I have gone way 222 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: out there in terms of deconstructing the symbolism of different 223 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: women's fashions and the way we adorn ourselves and all 224 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: of that. Well, guys, you can do it too, as 225 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: Pinfalled handily proves right, because Pinfall takes the beard and 226 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 1: just goes through a whisker by whisker in terms of 227 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: every single thing it means and things that you know 228 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:38,679 Speaker 1: you may or may not agree with. Well, I think 229 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 1: the most obvious argument that he makes, so I think 230 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: that we can all agree on, is that a beard 231 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: is a display of sexual maturity. Yes, you have gone 232 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 1: through puberty, you have the ability to grow hair on 233 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: your face, which probably means you've got to other places. 234 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: Its symbols I am here, I am ready to mate, 235 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: which is why Pinfold argues that sort the main thing 236 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: that you're gonna see when you see a beard, much 237 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 1: like you were talking about on the battlefield, Kristen, is 238 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: you're seeing a viril man like you're seeing there's no 239 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: doubt when you're seeing a person with the beard that 240 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 1: you're seeing a man. But we will get to later 241 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: how people subvert that imagery because sometimes people will use 242 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: a beer to show that they're not a man. Now, Molly, 243 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 1: what about Pinfall's point three makes about the art of shaving, 244 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: or not necessarily the art, I should say, the practice 245 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 1: of shaving, the ritual of it, because if they have 246 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,400 Speaker 1: this display a full male nous, and we were speaking 247 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,080 Speaker 1: in very heateronormative terms, I don't think we could say 248 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: right now, Okay, we're in We're in heavy, heavy scholarly 249 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: lingo at this point. Yeah, just just hold on for 250 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: the ride. Um. But but Pinfall makes an interesting point 251 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: about how he believes that the act of shaving is 252 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:03,560 Speaker 1: really a man's opportunity to exercise his inner femininity. Yes, 253 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:08,439 Speaker 1: because I think if you're stereotypical female task is being 254 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: in the mirror and primping, putting on makeup, looking at 255 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: your face, then shaving is the closest thing that men 256 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,200 Speaker 1: have to that where they you know, they get to 257 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: lather up, look them themselves in the mirror, and just 258 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: spend like, you know, ten minutes just focused on their appearance. Now, 259 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: he says that that's a very female thing to do, 260 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: and that by removing the facial hair, he calls it 261 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: a little bit of masculating because they are shaving away 262 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: the very thing that makes them a man. Yeah. And 263 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: he also claims that it's men with beards who have 264 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: quote unquote ruled the world both real and mythical, from 265 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln to Neptune. Now. But the thing though, that 266 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: he doesn't really take into account is the fact that 267 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: in modern day culture that hasn't been the case at all. 268 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: When was the last time he had a bearded president? Now? 269 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: Since Benjamin Harrison, I believe, Yeah, I mean, beards have 270 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: kind of come back into popularity. I would say a 271 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: lot to do with the recession. She'll get into in 272 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: a minute. But you know, i'd say for the you know, 273 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: the latter half of the twenty one century, beards were 274 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: a sign of, you you know, throwing off the power structure. 275 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: But I think I think Pinfall does address on a 276 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: little bit Christen, because think of the world of like 277 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: high finance or a lawyer. Yes, those people are required 278 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: to be clean shaven, by and large. It's it's a 279 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: little bit taboo to go into like you know, Wall 280 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: Street with a big beard. He says that, let's say, so, 281 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: I think that makes sense that why, that's why our 282 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: presidents probably are clean shaven because it it might it 283 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: might denote like laziness or something. However, though Molly Ben 284 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: Bernankey sports quite a beard. I mean, I'm just saying 285 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: boiled again by Bernankey. All right. He says that when 286 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 1: mangrove beards, it's part of a counterculture movement. Think about 287 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: how many hippies, for lack of a better word, group 288 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: bears just show that they would not go to the military. 289 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 1: Is part of Vietnam that they were, you know, not 290 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: part of the status quo. It was more of the 291 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: beaten nick look as well. And so Pinfall makes this 292 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: really flowery language to argument about how when men today 293 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: don't shave, they are rejecting this modern world that they 294 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: themselves have built. Like if a skyscraper is a symbol 295 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: of the modern world, not shaving is a rejection of 296 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: the skyscraper, so that when the man stands next the skyscraper, 297 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: it's like, WHOA, don't look at me. I didn't build this. 298 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: But I would say the only the one maybe frustrating 299 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: thing about Beloved Pinfolds paper is that he finds meaning 300 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: in it. You know, whether you're whether you're shaving or 301 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: you're not shaving, So where does that really leave us, 302 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: because we have you know, either you shave and you're 303 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: part of the system, or you don't shave and you're 304 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: not part of the system. But at the same time, 305 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: I would argue with the resurgence of the beard and 306 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: popular culture, especially starting in two thousand and eight when 307 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 1: you had the Writer's Guild strike and you had Conan 308 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: and David Letterman both growing beards as a sign of 309 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: allegiance to the writers. With all that going on, and 310 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: then with the rise of things such as the hipster mustache, 311 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: we could not get through this podcast without mentioning the 312 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: hipster mustache. Um. And then, uh, you know, if you 313 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: go in an Esquire, there's a lot more. There are 314 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: a lot more articles I ran across republished recently about 315 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: manscaping the beard, what different types of beards say about men, 316 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: and they're really it seems like they're really paying attention 317 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: to I guess more the fashion of it than whatever 318 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: like cultural symbolism. Well, I think Pinfall is trying to 319 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: say that even if you're just if you're going to 320 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: bear because you're just too tired to shave and you 321 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: don't like it, I remember the title of his paper 322 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: is too tired to shave every morning. You think that 323 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: you're just being lazy, but it's actually it's some sort 324 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 1: of statement. Like I remember after the writer strike, Letterman 325 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 1: was just like, I don't like shaving every day, but 326 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: everyone else took that as a symbol of solidarity because 327 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: of what was going on. So I think that this 328 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: is a problem that women face all the time. I mean, 329 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: think about our tattoo conversation Kristen, how there was no 330 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: way a woman could win if she got a tattoo, 331 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: because there's it's a symbol no matter what. And I 332 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: think that, rightly or wrongly, I do think that Pinfall 333 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: is saying that this is probably the equivalent for men. 334 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: I mean, men don't have to have their bodies as 335 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: politicized as women do. I don't think I would agree 336 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: with that. But bears are the one thing that we 337 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: will read maybe too much into Yeah, because since the 338 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: beginning of recorded history, really, according to one thousand Beers, 339 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: the book that we referenced earlier, facial hair, men's facially 340 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: here in particular, has been used as some kind of 341 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: political symbol, whether it's allegiance or divinity or status or 342 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: what have you, There's always been some kind of meaning 343 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: behind it. And as silly as this conversation might sound 344 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: to a guy who just says, well, I just don't 345 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: want to shave sometimes, or I look better when I 346 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: have a clean face, I don't think that you can 347 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: deny the fact that there is a lot of um 348 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:06,119 Speaker 1: symbolism in it. But my I think now is the 349 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: time for maybe us to pull away from all of 350 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: this the deeper meaning, and let's just get down to 351 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: just basic attraction. Okay, we talked a lot about the men, 352 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: what beards say about men, But what does men's facial 353 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: hair say to and again we're speaking the very heteronormative 354 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 1: space today, what does men's facial hair say to the ladies? Well, 355 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: there was a study published in the Telegraph in two 356 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: thousand eight that will answer that question for us. All right, 357 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: So they used British women eighty four and now again 358 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 1: they're British, so they are used to probably some wacky 359 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: facial hair. If I may make a mass stereotype, although Molly, no, 360 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I think that stereotype is wrong because according 361 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: to the World Beard Championships, the United States is now 362 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 1: the facial hair powerhouse. But those champanionships were one for 363 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: many years. By yea, by the British. They get us again, 364 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: all right. So they asked these women. Basically they took 365 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: these fifteen male faces and then computer altered them so 366 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: that you know, they were clean shaven, they'd stubble, they 367 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 1: had full beards and mustaches. They just they went crazy 368 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: with the computer generation. And they asked the women, which 369 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 1: one do you prefer? And they asked them to rank 370 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: them in terms of aggressiveness, um, attractiveness, powerful. Yeah, so 371 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: they rank all these men and guess which style the 372 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: women preferred. I know for a fact, um, the men 373 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: with light stubble were actually rated as the most attractive 374 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: and the ideal romantic partner for both short and long 375 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: term relationships. Right, They asked the ladies, you know, who 376 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: would you like to have for the rest of your life? 377 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: And who would you like to have just for tonight? 378 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: Stubble one both times stubble. It's a win win Phillis. 379 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,760 Speaker 1: And so the researchers who were analyzing the study thought 380 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: that stubble, to use the words of the paper, offered 381 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: women the best of both worlds because it showed that 382 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: they were mature, they had that masculinity within them, they 383 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: had the potential to grow a full beard, but they 384 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: were not too masculine, not too aggressive, because the men 385 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 1: with beards were rated as very aggressive, very aggressive, and 386 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: very dominant, whereas the clean shaven men were right at 387 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: the opposite. They were seen as not as aggressive, not 388 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 1: as masculine, not a stomach. The clean shaven man actually 389 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: finished at the bottom, frolmost all of the attractiveness characteristics. 390 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,439 Speaker 1: And the interesting thing about this is that in another 391 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: in a Time magazine article that Molly and I found, uh, 392 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: the author notes that according to some survey, two thirds 393 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: of women prefer for their the men that they're in 394 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: relationships with to be clean shaven, and Molly and I 395 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: kind of put our heads together and theorized, having read pinfoled, 396 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,639 Speaker 1: having read Pinfold post Pinfold theorized that women who are 397 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,239 Speaker 1: already in a relationship with a guy might prefer him 398 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: to be clean shaven because, according to Pinfold, in mass 399 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: helates him somewhat and take removes him from sexual marketplace 400 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 1: a little bit, Whereas if we're just out there looking 401 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: for guys, it's two stubbled ones who you know, catch 402 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: our eyes the most. So of course, you know you 403 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 1: don't want you're keeping your man off the market and 404 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: making sure he has no stubble. Like, yes, there's a 405 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,360 Speaker 1: practic concern, and that kissing stubble can be a little 406 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: painful sometimes stubble burn. But if women do find stubble 407 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: most attractive, then you don't want your guy walking around 408 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: in his most attractive state. And just to confirm the 409 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: results of this stubble study, I I sent Molly a 410 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: series of three photographs of one of our favorite actors, 411 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,160 Speaker 1: Mad Men's John Ham, possibly the most attractive living man. 412 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: And there was one of him clean shaven in a 413 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: tux looking great stubbled. Wen't even can't describe it. And 414 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: then one when he was he grew up this this 415 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: fantastic full beard. And I asked Molly which Ham she preferred. 416 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: Molly would just say, I like stubled Ham. Yeah. Stuff, 417 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: it was a really great picture. But maybe Molly. Just 418 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: to prove though that different cultures, not surprisingly, might perceive 419 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: facial hair in different ways. Uh. There was another story 420 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,719 Speaker 1: from the Washington Posts that came out pretty recently about 421 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: how Indian women actually prefer clean shaven men, because typically 422 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: um Indian men would grow out full long facial hair um. 423 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: But now the most recent facial hair fad for younger 424 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: Indian males and you'll see it a lot in Bollywood 425 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,080 Speaker 1: as well, is to be clean shaven. And they think 426 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 1: that it's just sort of a sign of the men 427 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: embracing more of the globalization westernization that has sort of 428 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: taken hold of of the more industrialized parts of India. 429 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: And I thought that that was kind of an interesting 430 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 1: contrast all of this pinfold and psychological studies we've been 431 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,359 Speaker 1: talking about. Well, I also liked how in that article 432 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: they said something like it shows that these men are 433 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: now listening to the women and what they prefer and 434 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: then maybe they don't prefer to kiss a face full 435 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 1: of hair. So it's very interesting. So, now, guys, it 436 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 1: is time for us to hear from you, because obviously 437 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: Molly and I can't sport beards, we can't display our 438 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 1: sexual maturity with a handlebar mustache or five o'clock shadow. 439 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: So we want to know what you think is this 440 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: crazy talk? Uh? Do you down with pin? Fall up with? Yeah? 441 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: Do you do you feel like you're a little more 442 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 1: masculin whenever you you sport beard, do you think you're 443 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: more attractive? Um? Do you feel emasculated every time you 444 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: take a knife to your face? Yeah? Let us know 445 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: your thoughts. And if you've got cool pictures of awesome 446 00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,440 Speaker 1: beards and mustaches, we'll take them. Yes, send them to 447 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: our email address. It's mom Stuff at how stuff works 448 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 1: dot com. And now we will do a little bit 449 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: of listener mail. All right, I have an email from Kristen, 450 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: another Kristen, not our christ Sten um, and this is 451 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: from an old one, our Kristen, but I thought we 452 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 1: should share it. Remember when you told that story about 453 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: how you're on steroids, Oh yeah, for poison ivy, guys, 454 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: not beyond to pump up for poison ivy. And I 455 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: think that you mentioned, according to this listener that it 456 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 1: ramps up your immune system to fight off poison ivy. 457 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: So Kristen is a position assistant and she says that 458 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: actually does the opposite the reaction of poison ivy. The 459 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: reaction to poison ivy is your bis immune system going 460 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,360 Speaker 1: crazy in response to the oil touching your skin. Steroids 461 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: are prescribed to hinder this response and also worked to 462 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: decrease the inflammation. And the reason that she wrote about 463 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:34,560 Speaker 1: this is because there are a lot of people who 464 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 1: are on these type of steroids regularly for conditions such 465 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: as asthma or autoimmune disorders like lupus, rheumatoid arthritis, and 466 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: these people should be aware of the side effects like 467 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: decreased immunity, not increased immunity. So thank you, Kristen. All right, well, 468 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: now I've got an email here from Laura and this 469 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: is about ballet and the Babysitters club Right, you may 470 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: remember that we got an email um that said, you 471 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: remember we got an email about the baby Sitters clubs Jesse, 472 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: who was a ballerina and who was black. And so 473 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: the listener was like, why didn't Anna Martin write about 474 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,360 Speaker 1: this conflict of diversity in the ballet world? So now 475 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: read the email we got and Laura from Toronto says 476 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: that she, in fact did. She said one of the 477 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: books did deal with a specific case of ballet racial 478 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: prejudice against Jesse. I think it was called Jesse's Secret Language. 479 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: When Jesse was cast as the lead in Capelia, she 480 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: ended up being harassed by some of the other dancers 481 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: in her class who didn't like the idea of a 482 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,879 Speaker 1: non white Kapelia Jesse wins them over with her talent 483 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: and finds out that the queen be of the mean 484 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: girls was jealous that she hadn't gotten the lead, and 485 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: they ended up as friends. Alright, BSc to the rest 486 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: of you again, Thank you Laura. 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