WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Villisca Axe Murders 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.840 This week's episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:06.040 you by another fantastic side by the Suffer King and said, 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:12.000 it's brought to you by Yeah, I recognize that the 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:14.760 theme from some Western TV. That was the show that 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.360 was on forever And uh, you know you two can 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.239 have a hand in creating an iconic intro theme for 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.119 a series. Yeah, you can work on our intro. We 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.279 have a music intro right now which everybody loves, but 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.760 not everybody quite loves, and so we decided to have 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.559 a contest among all of our listeners to create a 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.080 new one. For the rules, go to our website that's 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.160 Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. The rules are all there. 0:00:38.200 --> 0:00:41.680 All you gotta know is the deadline is July one, 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:45.160 two thousand seventeen, So get your entries in as quick 0:00:45.240 --> 0:01:01.400 as you can. Think says I. I don't know stories 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:03.520 of things. We simply don't none of the answer too. 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:09.920 Hi there, Welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:15.440 am your host, Joe, joined as always by Steve and 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.720 and today we're gonna bring you another fantastic mystery. I'm 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.960 mad at you guys, actually, so I don't know if 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:25.240 I can do this well you are. You're forgetting about 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:30.959 something very important. Uh you get your haircut? No, it's 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:34.880 our anniversary, that's what. It's our anniversary. Oh we've been 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.800 doing the show for four years today. I knew that, 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:41.600 of course, I know. I knew about that. Sure, so 0:01:41.840 --> 0:01:43.600 or we did you have anything planned? Are you going 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:47.480 to a nice dinner? Like? Um? Well? Actually no, we 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.160 we had a big plan to do a special anniversary episode, 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:54.240 right Steve. Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah totally. Yeah, it 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:56.440 was a surprise. Well yeah, we hadn't. Now we haven't 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:00.400 forgotten anything. Okay, yeah, all right, you sure? Okay now, 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:04.120 and hey, no, seriously, we would never forget our anniversary. 0:02:05.600 --> 0:02:07.440 What are you saying here? What kind of guys do 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:12.040 you think we are? We're smarter than that. Yeah, okay, alright, 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:14.400 so I guess all right, we have something planned, Yeah, 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.320 something very special. Um, of course I'm not going to 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:19.560 tell you what it is. It's just like the ring 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.920 in the bag on the top of the TV. Yeah, 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.480 ringing in the bag on top of the te I 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:32.280 don't know what happens, so funny, keep care No, no, no, 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:34.680 I'm teasing our listeners here, because yeah, you guys have 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.320 something really fantastic, but get a bag of the top 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:40.280 of the TV. This is just like in the TV 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:42.080 news and they tell you, they tell you about that 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:44.440 fantastic story coming up, and you know what that means 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:48.320 after the commercials. Yeah right, okay, And by the way, 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.440 before I forget, this topic has been suggested actually by 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:53.440 quite a few of our listeners. It's a popular one. 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:55.560 Oh yeah, it's a huge one. And I'm not sure 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:59.440 this list includes everybody, but yeah no, I don't think so, 0:02:59.520 --> 0:03:03.520 but I on my list Brooke, Joe, David, Kay and 0:03:03.639 --> 0:03:05.960 Matt and as for all the rest of you, they 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:08.440 suggested it and didn't get added to my list. I 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.840 apologize deeply. We usually do about five and then we're like, okay, 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.679 there's only so much room in the Google spreadsheet names unfortunately. 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:20.960 Yeah uh, but our mystery is about the valiska As 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:24.280 murders of nineteen twelve. I can't wait. Do you hear it? 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:31.200 Can you hear the little cheering? Yeah, big surprise to you. 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:33.400 Didn't know about this because we put this little thing 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:34.760 on the front the front of the episode that says 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:42.680 generic mystery. Yeah, yeah, so the vliska As murders are 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.520 They're kind of a big one. Eight people were killed 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:48.600 in their beds, and so well that's pretty big, what 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:53.960 you say. And this involved the More family of Veliska, Iowa. Valiska, 0:03:54.000 --> 0:03:55.720 by the way, is a little small town at the 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.960 time in nineteen twelve was about I believe that's when 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.360 our mystery takes places. Nineteen twelve. Yeah, it was in 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.240 nineteen twelve, and there was a town back then of 0:04:04.280 --> 0:04:07.160 about people. I think it's actually shrunk a little bit 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:11.880 since then, but it's in southwest Iowa. And of course 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:13.760 I've looked at on a street view it's listening like 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:18.400 a pleasant little town. Unfortunately, damn you Google. You can't 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:21.760 drive past the actual murder site itself on Google streets. 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.800 I mean really, and I know when I say damn 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:27.560 you Google, and I am kind of looking at gift 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:34.000 Horse in the mouth a little bit. Uh. Okay, let's 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:39.040 talk about the More family. Uh. They include Josiah Moore 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.360 who's also known as Joe Moore also known as jb Uh. 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.599 He was aged forty nine. That's why Sarah Moore aged 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:49.760 thirty nine. They lived with their kids in the house 0:04:49.839 --> 0:04:53.320 at five oh eight East Second Street in Lascal, Iowa. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:55.320 And so you can look it up on Google the 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.240 way I did. It's still there and it's still as 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.440 a tourist attraction. By the way, was else has been restored? Yeah, 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.360 it has been. Yeah, it sort of fell into disrepair there, 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:06.279 but somebody did restore. It's now in the list of 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:11.240 historic places. Yeah. Yeah, which is kind of cool. Yeah. Okay. 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:15.120 There four kids were Herman, Mary, Arthur, and Paul. That's 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:18.120 from oldest to youngest. Herman was eleven the oldest and 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.800 Paul the youngest, was five. So small kids, I mean 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.240 old enough to operate farm machinery, sure, but I mean 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:32.680 go get the thresher. Totally don't fall under again. Joe 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.599 Moore had a farm equipment business in Pliska which was 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:38.800 reportedly very successful. He has started out years before, I 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.600 think about nineteen hundred, working for a guy named Frank Jones, 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.880 also Realiska. Joe worked for Frank for seven years before 0:05:45.880 --> 0:05:47.839 he left to start his own business. He was the 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.920 top salesman at Frank Jones farm business, but he left 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.880 in nineteen o seven, reportedly because he didn't like working 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:59.719 from seven am to eleven pm, six days a week. Yeah. Yeah, 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.800 and uh. When Joe Moore left, he took the John 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:07.360 Deere account with him, which apparently didn't endear him to Frank. Yeah, 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:09.560 that had to be a pretty valuable account. Oh, I'm 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:11.680 sure it was. Yeah, John Deere. It was probably the 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:15.080 biggest account in town. John Deere is big and was 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.960 in the Midwest, and so basically that means it because 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:22.040 usually stores or sell certain brands, he was the only 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.160 the only store selling John Deere. Yeah, as far as 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.200 I know, Yeah, okay, I just making sure that that's 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.880 what I understood by taking the account, that's what that meant. 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:31.840 I don't think John Deeer really wanted to have more 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:36.880 than one dealership in any given Yeah. Yeah, and so yeah, 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:39.520 so I'm sure that was a blow to Frank, although 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.280 as far as I know, he stayed in business. He 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:43.720 actually Frank Jones went on to be account He was 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.520 still fairly successful. He became a state senator, although this 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.560 whole bruhaha with the murders and everything kind of scotch 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.160 his political career just a little bit later on, but 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.640 well we'll talk about that a little later. But yet 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.280 another reason for Frank Jones to really dislike Joe Moore, 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.160 and they didn't get a long and typically they were 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.360 known to cross the street when they approached each other 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:05.719 on the sidewalk to just avoid each other. Yeah. That's 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.279 that's good terms right there. Yeah, really good terms. Uh. 0:07:08.520 --> 0:07:10.240 And the reason the only reason I bring that up 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.400 is that if anything unpleasant were to happen to Joe 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.720 Moore and his family, I'm not saying it would, but 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.080 if it did were to happen, well, Frank might be 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:19.720 somebody the police would want to take a look at 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.160 about just saying. But more on that later. I should 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.280 also mention the or at least describe the fiscal surroundings 0:07:26.280 --> 0:07:28.920 of the Moor's house. Uh. As I've said, their addressed 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.040 previously five oh eighties Second Street, which you can see 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:35.440 on Google. It's on the eastern outskirts of Aliska. Uh. 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.280 There's some new development to the east, but not a lot. 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:40.840 They're really even and they're kind of on the outskirts 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.360 of town. And from what I've heard, in nineteen twelve, 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.560 there were a few houses there to the east of them, 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:48.920 and that was it. That was the edge of town. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.680 And the house was also in a large lot, had 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.640 a barn. Uh. There was room for some farm animals, 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.800 which included at least some horses and some chickens, and 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:00.640 I don't know anything else about any other animal, but 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.520 they did they apparently did not have a dog like 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.320 you can guess this because well, you know what happens. 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.520 But they had a dog, maybe maybe things would have 0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:15.400 turned out differently, you know, probably. Yeah. And last of all, 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.000 if you look on Google, you'll know that they are 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:22.080 six blocks north of the railroad tracks that runs through town. Uh, 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.320 not that that that has anything to do with anything, 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.400 but in that at that time, and actually twelve about 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:30.760 maybe thirty trains a day passed through the town. Nothing. 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.600 That's not nothing, you know, And you're that close to 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.280 the railroad tracks, well, you know. Uh. And and lastly, 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.520 more about the town of Biliska. It's one of those 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.640 little towns that you think of as people never locked 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:44.800 their doors. And although I have heard in other places 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:47.520 that actually most people did lock their doors in Biliska 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.880 at night, but you know, I don't know, it's really 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:54.840 hard to say. Um. And because people wonder about this, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.680 because they wonder how the killer got into the house 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:00.600 Aaron White for and also why did he pick that 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.680 particular house to begin with? Right, that's up in the 0:09:02.679 --> 0:09:05.800 air too. So now that I've told you all about 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:08.360 on the family, I guess it's onto one of you guys. 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.040 I guess you've guys have done a little research on 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.520 this whole thing. Of course, yeah, I don't know we 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.320 were doing this, so I didn't prepare. I'm just kidding. Yeah, 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.720 it wasn't It was supposed to be a surprise. Well, 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:21.840 let me let's talk about the night before the murders, 0:09:22.120 --> 0:09:25.880 because there's some stuff that goes down, So that would 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:30.200 be Sunday evening, the nineth of June. The family had 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:34.280 gone to the Children's Day Service at the Presbyterian Church, 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:39.240 which they were members of, and apparently they were accompanied 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:44.040 by two neighbor children, Lena and Ena Stillinger, I believe 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:45.960 that's how you pronounce it, and those I think it 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:51.040 was okay, So Lena and Aina, and Lena was twelve, 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:54.559 I was eight, and they had had their permission, parents 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.720 permission to stay overnight with the more children. So what 0:09:57.760 --> 0:09:59.679 they did is when they went to they went to church, 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:01.800 they we're going to the end of the year Sunday 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:06.040 school program that was called the Children's Day Service, and 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.800 Mrs Moore I understood that she was directing it, so 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:12.000 never mind or part of it anyway, So never mind 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.920 that her children were participating, as we're just about every 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.760 other kid in the church, but she was involved in 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:22.840 that way as well. According to accounts the this is 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.200 what I'm not clear on. It says that everything ended 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:28.400 at nine thirty, and I don't know if that means 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:32.839 that the children's Day event, their service ended, or if 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:35.160 that's when they left the church, because you know those 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.760 kind of events. People go in, the event happens, and 0:10:37.800 --> 0:10:40.440 then you stand around and your chit chat and you 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.560 catch up with your neighbors. So regardless though, it always 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.240 says that they left at nine thirty, and at that 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:49.560 point they would have walked home, which was not very far. 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.320 It's about a five minute walk. If I remember correctly, 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:54.280 it was three blocks, so yeah, I was even closer 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:57.120 than that. But when they got home, everyone had a 0:10:57.160 --> 0:11:02.000 small snack before going to bed, cookies and milk Martiniz no, 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:04.960 no Martiniz for the children, well maybe for the adults, 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:09.000 maybe for the adults um. And again not entirely clear 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:11.800 when they went to bed, but based on the time, 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.000 the ages of the kids in the time at night, 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:16.080 I'm guessing that they were probably all in bed, probably 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.000 quarter after ten or ten thirty, somewhere in that range. 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:21.960 This was back in the day when there was no internet, 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.320 no TV. Yeah, so you know, you know, and limited 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.440 you know, limited lighting. So they're also children, like, yeah, 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:31.160 that's that's what I'm getting at their twelve and they 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:34.360 get exhausted, even even if you're an adult. What's the 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.880 point of staying up, you know, I mean, there's just 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.760 nothing to do as well, go sack out exactly. But 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:43.560 but so it's after that at some point in the night. 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:47.520 It's believed past midnight, but we're not a positive that 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:50.200 the killer took the axe that was left sitting in 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:54.280 the backyard and attacked a family The next morning, so 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:58.240 this is Monday morning. Mary Peckham who was the neighbor, 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.840 she's sixty three. She got up at normal time of 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:05.160 five am and started her routine. She said that she 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:09.360 noticed the More house was surprisingly quiet, which was weird 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.280 because normally Joe Moore would get up and go take 0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.120 care of the horses in the backyard before going to 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:18.679 his office, and Mrs Moore tended to wake up the 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:21.320 kids before sunrise to get them ready and to do 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:24.320 their chores. And when you've got four kids, they make 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:27.040 a fair amount of noise in the morning. So the 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.959 screaming and throwing rocks at each other, yeah, whatever the 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.600 case may be playing because their kids, so there should 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.200 have been those noises, and none of that was happening. 0:12:35.760 --> 0:12:40.040 And by eight o'clock that morning, she hadn't seen any 0:12:40.080 --> 0:12:43.439 of the family. So what Mary did is she went 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.280 over to the house and she knocked on the door. 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.360 Nobody answered. She tried to look through the windows, but 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:51.160 they were drawn and shuttered, so she couldn't see anything. 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:55.440 I saw that there were two windows in the entire 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:59.120 house that didn't have shutters or curtains or anything on 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.160 the inside, and they had clothes tacked up. Is that 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.560 did you also see that? I don't remember seeing that 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.840 there were. Yeah, and my understanding is that the windows 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.880 all had clothes tacked up on the inside. Yeah, yeah, clothes, towels, whatever. Yeah. 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.320 It appears that somebody, we don't know who was trying 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.720 to hide whatever, and maybe like you know, cover the windows, 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.240 or somebody in the family did it for privacy reasons. 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:27.800 Because somebody broke the blinds. I know people whose children 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.079 have pulled the blinds down and they've had to hang 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:32.199 a sheet for a couple of days till they get it, 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:37.480 get replacement happen. Yeah, But anyway, so Mary, she goes 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.079 over and she looks and she can't see anything. So 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.320 she goes to the family's chicken coop, let's chickens out, 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:45.840 so at least the chickens can be let out for 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:50.120 the day, and goes home just figures, well, maybe Joe's 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.959 family got ill and they had to leave in the 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.280 middle of the tonight, and that's why they're not there. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.720 You know. She she's justifying what's going on, is what 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.920 she's doing. So after after at Mary goes back to 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.040 your house and here the events. I've read a couple 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.520 of different versions of how this went down. And in 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.880 the simple version, one of Joe's employees came over to 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.480 the house to get his boss, couldn't find couldn't get 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.080 into the house, couldn't see anybody, and then left and 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:20.960 after and said something to Mary. And at that point 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:26.040 then Mary placed a call to Joe's brother, whose name 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.680 is Ross Moore. So that's one version that I've heard. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.240 I've also heard that unbidden by anybody, for reasons we 0:14:33.280 --> 0:14:36.280 don't know, Ross just came over on his own to 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:39.080 see the family. I don't think that was the case. 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:41.360 I don't think so either, because it does sound like 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.000 there was, you know, a lot. I mean, people are 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.720 trying to figure out where's Joe, what's going on. So 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.520 what happens though, is Ross comes over and he does 0:14:50.560 --> 0:14:53.160 exactly what Mary did. He tries to look through the windows, 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.200 he can't see anything. Knocks on the door, nobody answers, 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.640 But of course he has the one thing that Mary 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.720 didn't have, which is a key. Yeah, so I thought 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:07.400 you were going to say a crowbar. So he unlocks 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.600 and opens the door and he goes inside where he 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:15.360 sees there's nothing good. So Mary waited on the porch 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.320 while Ross went into the parlor. He found Aina and 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:23.120 Lena's bodies in the bedroom, um in the guest bedroom 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.760 on the bed. Ross at that point, and that's on 0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.080 the first floor. It's on the first floor. Yeah. So 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.920 Ross at this point calls to Marry and says, hey, 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.400 go get Hank Horton. He was kind of like the 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.320 police chief. He was the the primary peace officer of 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.520 the town at the time. He had the town marshall 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.240 or town watchman or whatever you call some something some 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.560 the person in charge basically probably one of those things 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:47.840 where it's kind of a he's got a day job. Also. 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:52.160 So what happens is, um, you know, Ross finds body, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.080 so he's you know, either goes back out or calls 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:59.000 to Marry and says go get Hank um and then 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.960 Ross way eats. From all the reporting, I can see 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.960 waits until Hank shows up and either Mary called her, 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.560 there's not The details are not clear here on how 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.040 Hank got down there. Yeah, if she went and ran 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:13.840 to get him, or if she called or what, but 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:17.000 he was somehow summoned. I'm gonna guess it was a 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.200 phone call. I think they called. Yeah, I would guess 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:20.680 that as well. But I don't know where Hank. I 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:22.480 mean maybe Hank lived two doors down and so she 0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:26.040 was like, just go down there. Anyway, Hank gets back, 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.960 Hank and Mary and Ross all go into the house 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:35.520 and upstairs they find the entire More family had also 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.240 been bludged to death. I didn't say that Aina and 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.080 Lena's bodies showed signs of being blooded to death, but 0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.760 there you go. They've been blunted to death, and as 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.080 had the entire More family. I didn't even take it 0:16:48.160 --> 0:16:50.240 that initial look. I don't even think they peeked under 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.960 the covers. I think that the first person that I've 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:54.840 heard of pulled the covers back to see that they 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.200 were blunde and was like the doctor that they brought 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.320 later on. There's just a lot of blood. It was 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.080 just like bodies in the bed. There's blood everywhere. You know, 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:04.080 you know, what's happened to you know, you know, I'm 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.160 not sure if it's bludgeoning or shooting or stabbing or what. 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:10.640 They look kind of dead. There's some killing, yeah, oh yeah, 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.000 for sure. So I've I've heard a few different ways, 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:18.840 but I believe that the acts that had been used 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.119 in all of the bludgeoning deaths was found in the 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.280 guest bedroom with Nina and Lena's bodies. That's what I've 0:17:24.359 --> 0:17:28.000 heard too. So doctors were obviously called as well, and 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:30.160 they examined the bodies and the crime scene, and here's 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.879 what they found. They concluded that the murders had been 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.399 committed before or five am, but after midnight, probably closer 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.399 to midnight. Um, so in the early early hours of 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:42.639 you know, the one two hours of the morning, not 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:46.040 the not the later ones. The creepy factor is of 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:50.000 course upped when they found two cigarette butts in the attic. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:53.560 I'm not totally sure why they were examining the attic 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.640 in the first place, but they found two cigarette butts 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.600 up there that would make sense. Seems reasonably spent because 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.640 they had heard of hender KAIFEK. Yeah, sorry, I said 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:05.439 reasonably they they seemed recently spent. They weren't, you know, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:07.800 as though the kids had been sneaking up there too. 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.320 Although this is and I know you, I know you 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.119 will find the cigarette bus in the attic thing on Wikipedia. 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.399 But what I've heard is that that Wikipedia is wrong 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:20.679 on that count, and that the actual the entrance to 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:24.200 the attic, which the investigators did find the day of 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.040 the discovery of the bodies, is actually in the closet 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.280 of Joe and Sarah's bedroom in the upstairs, and it 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.919 was blocked off by boxes and clothing and stuff like that, 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:37.000 and so in order, and so if there were cigarette 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.000 bus there, they weren't left by the killer, because the 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.119 killer again, when they when they found the bodies, the 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.080 closet was full of boxes and clothes, and so if 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.760 he had hidden there, he would have murdered them and 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.560 then replaced all that stuff back into the closet and stuff, 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:55.359 and before he left the house, unless there was an 0:18:55.480 --> 0:19:00.720 entrance externally, maybe some of the in to be able 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:02.600 to hear what was going on in the house, or 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:04.399 maybe that too. But I mean, it's like, you know, 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:06.760 there's other a few places have said that he hit 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.639 in the cellar, same thing, though there's no there's no 0:19:09.680 --> 0:19:12.240 internal entrance from the house, so if he if he's 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.600 in the cellar, he's got to exit the house and 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.199 come back into the house, which is not you know, 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.800 the same thing. No, not not insanely crazy, but you know, 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:22.600 that's just what I've heard. That is that the whole 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:26.760 wicked thing is not not exactly so the killer spider man. Okay, 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.560 so yeah, so And actually I've heard another account out there. 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.880 I can't. I gotta start taking better notes. Another account, 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:35.800 which may have been a little bit of conflation with 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:38.760 hintri Kaifak, because it's very hint kaifaky, is that, of 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.040 course they the Moors did have a barn with their horses, 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:45.480 and they found evidence that somebody had had been sitting 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:47.840 on a couple of hay bills there and in close 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.480 proximity to a novel in one of the exterior walls 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.720 that afforded a view of the house, and that maybe 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:55.720 the killer was hiding in the barn and watching the 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.280 house from the barn. But again this is very cumstantial. Yeah, well, 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:01.040 and again I think that this might really be a 0:20:01.080 --> 0:20:03.040 case of where over the years it's been sort of 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.679 conflated with hinterra kaifak a little bit, you know, and 0:20:06.400 --> 0:20:08.959 but the same thing with the attic and stuff. Anyway, 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.639 Devin Starry to interrupt your narrative. So the killer's hanging 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.040 out somewhere, I guess, And he was hanging that somewhere. 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:17.320 Maybe not. Maybe he just came walking up out of 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:19.600 the darkness and want right into the house. The massacre 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.800 started in the master bedroom with Josiah and Sarah. Josili 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.600 was really really badly beaten up. He'd been hacked. Um, 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:29.919 he'd actually been hacked. Most of the victims had just 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:32.680 been blundened with like the blunt side um, the butt 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.320 what you would call the butt of the axe. Um. 0:20:35.320 --> 0:20:37.800 But he had actually been cut a number of times 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.960 with the blade of the axe. In fact, he was 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.520 beat so badly that his eyes were apparently missing which 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:49.280 is pretty that's pretty intense. Next, the killer, because we 0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:51.280 don't actually know if there was only one killer or not, 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:55.560 moved to the children's room. Sorry they obviously they bludgeoned 0:20:55.600 --> 0:20:58.040 Sarah as well at the same time at the same time. 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:00.280 Right then they moved to the children's room. This is 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:04.000 where herman, Catherine Boyd and Paul all were. They were 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.960 all beaten with the butt as previously noted. Then after 0:21:08.040 --> 0:21:10.440 returning to the master bedroom to beat up on Josiah 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:14.320 and Sarah a bit more, the killer or went downstairs 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:19.320 to the guest bedroom where Anna and Lena were killing them. Lena, 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.480 it seems, may have been awake when she was murdered, 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:25.520 and that would be different from all of the rest 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.679