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Speaker 1: On part one of our coverage of Barry Beach, a

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Speaker 1: nonsensical false confession to a crime for which he had

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Speaker 1: already been cleared as a suspect by the physical evidence

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Speaker 1: sent him away for one hundred years without the possibility

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Speaker 1: of parole. Now, Barry and investigator Richard Hepburn tell us

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Speaker 1: about his journey to freedom.

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Speaker 2: In lieu of the death penalty. I was sentenced to

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Speaker 2: one hundred years dangerous with no parole, no furlough in

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Speaker 2: the state of Montana, which meant that I would never

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Speaker 2: ever see the outside of prison. I remember waking up

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Speaker 2: one day and making a promise to myself that, no

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Speaker 2: matter what it took, and I was going to make

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Speaker 2: the very best of my life by the time I

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Speaker 2: ended up in that cell. God had promised me on

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Speaker 2: numerous occasions that he was going to form a miracle

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Speaker 2: to set me free. So I wanted to live my

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Speaker 2: life as normal as I possibly could. I started educating

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Speaker 2: myself every chance I got. I took every course they

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Speaker 2: had in prison. I signed up for correspondence courses. I

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Speaker 2: became involved in every single prison self help group I

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Speaker 2: could find, and more important than anything else, my entire

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Speaker 2: life consisted around fighting my case. I taught myself how

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Speaker 2: to do freedom of information acts. I started researching the law.

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Speaker 2: I was constantly in the library. I was constantly talking

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Speaker 2: to other inmates about the law, about habeas corpuses, about this,

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Speaker 2: about that. And I actually spent seventeen years on my

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Speaker 2: own piecing together documentation that proved my innocence.

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Speaker 3: Somehow or other, your conviction was upheld in spite of

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Speaker 3: your best efforts by the Montana Supreme Court on July

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Speaker 3: twenty fifth, nineteen eighty five.

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Speaker 2: Yes, the Montana Supreme Court ruled that the confession was

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Speaker 2: voluntarily given and forensically accurate, and therefore they upheld the conviction.

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Speaker 3: Amazing, forensically accurate. Literally, nothing you said was accurate other

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Speaker 3: than that somebody died, right, somebody was murdered. It must

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Speaker 3: have felt like some kind of cruel, sick joke. But

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Speaker 3: you were not giving up. You're not going to quit.

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Speaker 2: I had been shot down by every court in the

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Speaker 2: United States of America at least once. I had not

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Speaker 2: only been shot down by the Montana Supreme Court, but

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Speaker 2: I appealed it to the Federal District Court, got shot down,

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Speaker 2: appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco,

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Speaker 2: got shot down, took it to the United States Supreme Court,

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Speaker 2: got dismissed, went all the way back to the Montana

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Speaker 2: Supreme Court and started that process again, only to get

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Speaker 2: shut down again. So at that point I had actually

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Speaker 2: started filing executive clemency applications before the Montana Board of

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Speaker 2: Pardons in parole. I think I filed two of those.

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Speaker 2: But throughout all of that I wrote letters to anybody

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Speaker 2: and everybody in the world that I could see on

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Speaker 2: sixty minutes on forty eight hours on dateline. I became

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Speaker 2: an absolute junkie of these programs simply because every time

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Speaker 2: there was a story, they would interview the attorney, and

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Speaker 2: I'd write those attorneys. There would be an investigative reporter,

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Speaker 2: I'd write those reporters. And I had actually, on my

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Speaker 2: own and through my own investigation and my own Freedom

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Speaker 2: of information acts, developed a portfolio that I could mail

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Speaker 2: out of the prison to people I was reaching out to.

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Speaker 3: And one of the earth shattering discoveries you had made

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Speaker 3: through the Freedom of Information Act, also known as a

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Speaker 3: Foyer request, was an egregious Brady violation.

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Speaker 2: So I'm going to back up a little bit to

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Speaker 2: September nineteenth of nineteen seventy nine, three months after Kimneys

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Speaker 2: was murdered, a girl gives a statement to the Roosevelt

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Speaker 2: County Sheriff, a guy by the name of Don Carpenter.

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Speaker 2: She claimed that she was at a movie theater with

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Speaker 2: a really good friend of hers who was a classmate

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Speaker 2: of ours in high school. This individual told her that

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Speaker 2: he was at the crime scene when Kimneys was killed

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Speaker 2: at this party, and that he saw certain females hold

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Speaker 2: Kimneys down and beat her repeatedly with a hammer. He

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Speaker 2: also claimed that that hammer was then thrown into the

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Speaker 2: Poplar River and all the females dispersed in different directions.

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Speaker 2: That statement led to the Roosevelt County Sheriff's Department sending

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Speaker 2: divers into the Poplar River, who did, in fact find

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Speaker 2: a claw hammer right where this witness said that it

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Speaker 2: was going to be. They sent that hammer off and

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Speaker 2: lo and behold. Law enforcement determines that is no the

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Speaker 2: murder weapon. That statement by that girl gets brushed aside

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Speaker 2: and hidden and was never disclosed until I started filing

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Speaker 2: freedom of information acts and I was able to enclose

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Speaker 2: it into my documentation proving that I was innocent.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure how the hell they could determine that

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Speaker 3: a hammer was not the murder weapon, considering that the

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Speaker 3: gouge marks in the truck's cab corroborate that it was

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Speaker 3: likely a claw hammer. We already know what kind of

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Speaker 3: bullshit they were ready to pull with that pubic hair,

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Speaker 3: and I'm sure an independent lab would probably have some

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Speaker 3: interesting findings. But again, I think the machinations of the

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Speaker 3: law enforcement community will become clearer as we dig deeper. Now,

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Speaker 3: this girl's name was Arii Bershey, and she was reiterating

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Speaker 3: an alleged statement from a guy named Mike Longtree. So

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Speaker 3: you were able to include this rating material in the

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Speaker 3: package that you had developed to try to get some support.

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Speaker 3: And one of the people you had reached out to

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Speaker 3: was a professor at the University of Chicago, the author

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Speaker 3: of the book Convicted but Innocent, a man named Sir

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Speaker 3: Ronald Hoff, who agreed to help you by sending you

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Speaker 3: two letters of recommendation to send along with your own

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Speaker 3: letter to the producers of sixty Minutes and to Jim McCloskey,

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Speaker 3: the legendary founder of Centurion Ministries, an innocent organization that

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Speaker 3: is spoken of in reverend tones throughout the wrongful Conviction community.

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Speaker 2: And at that time the letter I sent to Century

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Speaker 2: Ministries ended up on the desk of an investigator for

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Speaker 2: Century Ministries who was a volunteer, and he read that

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Speaker 2: letter from Sir Ronald Hoff along with some other things,

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Speaker 2: and he's the one who began to advocate on my behalf.

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Speaker 2: And his name is Richard Hepburn. So Richard Hepburn began

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Speaker 2: to advocate with Century Ministries that they take a look

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Speaker 2: at my case. Fast forward to the year two thousand,

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Speaker 2: and I had a lot of hope. So in October

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Speaker 2: of two thousand, Century Ministries committed to fully reinvestigating my case.

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Speaker 2: One of the very first things that Century Ministries discovered, though,

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Speaker 2: is that all of the forensic evidence that had been

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Speaker 2: gathered at the crime scene had disappeared and been lost

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Speaker 2: at the end of my trial in nineteen eighty four.

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Speaker 2: So when we started doing their investigation and thinking about DNA,

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Speaker 2: which had now come in to play, there were no

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Speaker 2: hair samples, no blood samples. There was a bloody towel

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Speaker 2: found that night with hair from Kimnice on that bloody

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Speaker 2: towel the hair from that towel had been lost, and

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Speaker 2: it took us many, many years to even find the

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Speaker 2: towel because it too had been lost, even though we

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Speaker 2: later did find the towel and do DNA testing on

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Speaker 2: some of the blood spatters there, which is not my

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Speaker 2: blood or DNA. So in two thousand century ministries they

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Speaker 2: assigned two investigators to my case. One was Paul Henderson

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Speaker 2: out of Seattle, Washington, who was a Pulitzer Prize winning

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Speaker 2: author for investigating wrongful convictions. And then also a guy

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Speaker 2: by the name of Richard Hepburn out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: They began a very intense and in depth investigation into

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Speaker 2: the death of Kimneys since your ministries went out and

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Speaker 2: interviewed two hundred and eighty six people from Popper Montana

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Speaker 2: who were out and about in Popper Montana the knight

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Speaker 2: that Kimnice was killed. Not one single person saw me

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Speaker 2: anywhere in Popper Montana on the night that Kimnice was killed.

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Speaker 2: What they did discover from those two hundred and eighty

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Speaker 2: six people is repeatedly some of these people had been

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Speaker 2: told firsthand from different females who live in the popular area.

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Speaker 2: To this day, that they in fact were responsible for

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Speaker 2: the death of Kimneys, and that they got away with

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Speaker 2: the perfect murder.

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Speaker 4: My name was Richard Hepburn. I was for years a

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Speaker 4: high school math teacher and coach. I read about censuryon

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Speaker 4: ministries in a magazine article about nineteen ninety so when

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Speaker 4: I retired ninety eight, I said, I'm going to go

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Speaker 4: over there and volunteer. Well, most volunteers communicate with prisoners,

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Speaker 4: they gather flows, they right back and forth. And I

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Speaker 4: saw this case, this horrible crime, This seventeen year old

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Speaker 4: kid sat one shed of evidence that he was even there.

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Speaker 4: And I persuaded the boss, Jim McCluskey, to take the case,

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Speaker 4: and he had a staff investigator in Seattle. But I said, Jim,

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Speaker 4: I'd like to do this. You can you know what,

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Speaker 4: You're an old high school teacher. I could do this. Well.

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Speaker 4: He let me go out there, and before long, Paul

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Speaker 4: moved on to other cases, and I was the lead investigator.

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Speaker 4: So I talked to a lot of people, and everyone

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Speaker 4: in that bloody town knew that those four or five

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Speaker 4: girls jumped her and Barry.

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Speaker 3: Didn't everyone right, And the prevailing knowledge was that this

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Speaker 3: group of girls had lured Kimneys down to the River

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Speaker 3: for a party where they planned to confront her about

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Speaker 3: being romantically involved with the same guy as one of

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Speaker 3: the girls in the group. Now, would you just go

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Speaker 3: out to bars and talk to people.

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Speaker 4: I didn't go there much after dark. You know, everyone

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Speaker 4: knows what happens, and some people are willing to fight

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Speaker 4: to keep a secret. So you know, I'm brave, but

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Speaker 4: I'm not very tough. But anyhow, I was with Paul

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Speaker 4: at first because I was a beginning of vestigater. You know,

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Speaker 4: we saw Mike Longtree.

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Speaker 3: Right, the alleged witness from the Brady violation. The statement

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Speaker 3: from Ori Bershey.

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Speaker 4: Ori Bershee said that Mike Longtree had told her that

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Speaker 4: he had been there. He said he did do anything,

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Speaker 4: but he was present. There was fr four cars, president,

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Speaker 4: a lot of people president. But he would never We

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Speaker 4: talked to him many many times and he always denied.

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Speaker 3: I never said that, even though Oriber she wasn't the

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Speaker 3: only one that he allegedly admitted this to. And in

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Speaker 3: these alleged statements, the name Cissy Atkinson came up repeatedly,

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Speaker 3: and Cissy's brother was the chief of police.

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Speaker 4: Right, Bobby Atkinson was chief of police for the Poplar Police. Yes,

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Speaker 4: but Bobby was pretty good. And when Sissy came in

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Speaker 4: from Great Falls to visit, he told us when we

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Speaker 4: came over and.

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Speaker 3: Interviewed her, and how'd that go?

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Speaker 4: What did you say, Cissy, there are people here who

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Speaker 4: think you had something to do with that. Good, they'll

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Speaker 4: leave me the fuck alone. Yeah, she was very defiant

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Speaker 4: and then she walked out.

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Speaker 3: Did you come across anyone else willing to name names

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Speaker 3: and go on the record.

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Speaker 4: No, they aren't going to do that out there. They're

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Speaker 4: not going to say, boy, Sissy Atkinson did it, knowing

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Speaker 4: full well that nothing's ever going to happen to Sissy.

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Speaker 4: But if she gets in some trouble because of what

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Speaker 4: I said, I'm going to end up in the river.

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Speaker 4: You know, when we were out there, there was someone

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Speaker 4: that had nothing to do with our case, but a

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Speaker 4: person was found on the river with bruises all over

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Speaker 4: the head. That was an accidental drowning. That's a depressing.

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Speaker 3: Place, Yeah, sounds like it, But it seemed there were

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Speaker 3: a few people who were courageous enough to talk. What

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Speaker 3: about Carl Forstar, who had been a coworker of Sissy

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Speaker 3: Atkinson's back in nineteen eighty four at the Tribal Industries plan.

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Speaker 4: Oh, Carl Forister's a big witness. Yes, Carl Forster said,

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Speaker 4: Sissy was across the room, you know, in another group.

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Speaker 4: She said got away with the perfect murder. And she

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Speaker 4: repeated a couple of times, and Carl heard her, and

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Speaker 4: he came forth. And when we e didn't come forth,

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Speaker 4: but I happened to be interviewing his mother, and he

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Speaker 4: came up from the zellar and told me what Sissy

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Speaker 4: said at the Tribal Industry's place. And he ended up

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Speaker 4: as a witness. And then sists he Hadkinson's nephew, Denver

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Speaker 4: Atkinson's kid beat him up at a Fourth of July

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Speaker 4: parade in wolf Point, and he was afraid to come

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Speaker 4: to the Lewiston hearing, but he came. The judge sent

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Speaker 4: two cops to get him and bring them.

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Speaker 3: So, yeah, the Lewiston hearings happened in twenty eleven where

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Speaker 3: another witness also bravely came forward as a result of

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Speaker 3: your investigation. She was just a little girl at the time, right,

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Speaker 3: Steffie Eagleboy, How did you find her? During your initial investigation?

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Speaker 4: We had a notice in the maybe it was the

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Speaker 4: wolf Point Becausette with people for information called this number. Well,

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Speaker 4: she called Peter Camille, a lawyer, and it was his number,

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Speaker 4: crying that she had some information. Sefie Eagle Boy. She

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Speaker 4: was a young girl, like eight or ten at the time.

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Speaker 4: I forget these kids. Their parents would all go to

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Speaker 4: the bar on Friday and Saturday night and they sit

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Speaker 4: out on the hill. Well, she was there and heard

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Speaker 4: the scream of Kimberly.

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Speaker 3: Not only screaming, but she also saw and our audience

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Speaker 3: will remember this name, she saw Stevie Greyhawk's police cruiser

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Speaker 3: approach the scene. Around that time.

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Speaker 4: He drove down without his lights on a court to Stephiehiggleboy.

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Speaker 4: I talked to him several times and nothing happened that

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Speaker 4: night that he's aware of.

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Speaker 3: He wasn't aware of.

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Speaker 4: He didn't go down there, he didn't show the word

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Speaker 4: was he shined his light down. He pulled over and

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Speaker 4: shined his light down, then drove down and came back.

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Speaker 4: And I think, you know, he's a policeman. He's either

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Speaker 4: got to do something about it or get the hell

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Speaker 4: out of there. So he got out of there. But

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Speaker 4: he would never own to that.

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Speaker 3: Now, the last name Greyhawk came up in other contacts

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Speaker 3: in your investigation because he had a daughter about Kim

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Speaker 3: Nyese's age. Did you ask him about her?

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Speaker 4: You know, Steve Greyhawk just wouldn't hear of Maud being

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Speaker 4: involved in anything.

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Speaker 3: So so the same guy that found nothing to report

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Speaker 3: from the scene around two, even though ten year old

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Speaker 3: Steffie Eagle Boy could hear female voices screaming, not only

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Speaker 3: of Kim Knee's her voice, but she also later testified

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Speaker 3: that she heard the other girl screaming, get the bitch

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Speaker 3: and kill the bitch. Steve Greyhawk turned around with nothing

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Speaker 3: to report and just wouldn't hear of Maud being involved

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Speaker 3: in anything. The same guy who broke down the evidence

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Speaker 3: room door the following night to allegedly go to the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: I have to laugh because it's so ridiculous, thus breaking

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Speaker 3: the chain of custody and contaminating the crime scene evidence.

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Speaker 3: He just hadn't seen what Steffie Eagleboy heard.

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Speaker 4: My impression is if he was there, he lied. He

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Speaker 4: lied through his scene.

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Speaker 3: A lot of people were willing to do a lot

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Speaker 3: of things to keep this secret. You know, when Maud

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Speaker 3: Greyhawk was getting a divorce from her ex husband, Dana Kern.

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Speaker 3: Her boyfriend Tracy McGowan, stabbed the ex husband to death

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Speaker 3: on the eve of a heated custody hearing. And the

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Speaker 3: speck is that the ex husband had admitted to others

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Speaker 3: that Maud had confessed to him in the past and

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Speaker 3: was poised to air that dirty laundry at the custody hearing.

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Speaker 3: Now that's just speculation, but it is just also another

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Speaker 3: finger pointed at Maud Greyhawk. So during your investigation, it

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Speaker 3: might have gotten back to Maud that you were on

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Speaker 3: to her, and you found that out through her sister

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Speaker 3: in law, Judy Greyhawk.

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Speaker 4: Maud called her when I cried because she told we

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Speaker 4: were on dor and she said, you know, I didn't

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Speaker 4: kill that girl. I might have kicked her once or twice,

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Speaker 4: but I didn't kill that girl. I went to see

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Speaker 4: Judy and she admitted that Maud said that, but she

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Speaker 4: was married to Maud's brother. She was afraid to come forward.

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Speaker 4: So I read up a statement exactly what she told me,

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Speaker 4: and she wouldn't sign it, obviously, so I said, you know,

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Speaker 4: stick it in the drawer somewhere you might change your mind. Well,

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Speaker 4: very near the time we had the hearing for the Proboard.

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Speaker 4: She called man says she's willing to appear how shocked.

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Speaker 3: We'll be right back after this.

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Speaker 5: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.

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Speaker 5: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and is making

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Speaker 5: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and

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Speaker 5: in the communities where we work and live. In light

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Speaker 5: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and

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Speaker 5: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,

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Speaker 5: the AIG pro Bono program provides free legal services and

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Speaker 5: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals.

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Speaker 2: So we took some of those statements in some of

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Speaker 2: those interviews, and the first thing that Centurion Ministries did

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Speaker 2: with these facts that we uncovered is we actually filed

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Speaker 2: an application before the Montana Board of Partners and prol

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Speaker 2: for an executive clemency hearing. We were granted a full

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Speaker 2: three day hearing before the Proboard to present all of

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Speaker 2: these witnesses that we had uncovered. At the start of

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Speaker 2: that hearing, before the pro Board, I had already started

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Speaker 2: to generate just a little small amount of media coverage

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Speaker 2: into this hearing, so there were several reporters there and

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Speaker 2: Centurion Ministries brought forth all the witnesses, stating that certain

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Speaker 2: females had confessed to numerous numerous people that they in

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Speaker 2: fact committed the murder of Kimney's. We also brought doctor

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Speaker 2: Richard Leo, who is the nation leading expert in false

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Speaker 2: confessions and how they happened. He did a full interview

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Speaker 2: with me and a full review of the confession in

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Speaker 2: the facts of the case, and came to the conclusion

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Speaker 2: that absolutely the confession was false, inaccurate, and unsupported by

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Speaker 2: the physical evidence of the crime scene.

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Speaker 3: So the coverage of this two thousand and seven clemency

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Speaker 3: hearing was really powerful. In fact, one journalism student named

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Speaker 3: Jesse McQuillan did such a great job that he garnered

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Speaker 3: the attention of Montana State Senator Dan Weinberg, and the

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Speaker 3: two of them joined forces to begin we to found

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Speaker 3: the Montana Innocence Project all because of you and your case. Wow.

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Speaker 3: But what did the board ultimately decide?

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Speaker 2: The pro board went on to determine that none of

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Speaker 2: the witnesses brought forth by Century Ministries had any credibility

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Speaker 2: in light of the confession, and that the confession alone

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Speaker 2: stood as forensic evidence to maintain my conviction, and they

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Speaker 2: denied me any type of clemency.

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Speaker 3: Again, I don't know what confession they're referring to. You

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Speaker 3: just had doctor Leo in there ripping it apart. Not

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Speaker 3: that you even need a giant in the field like

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Speaker 3: him to see through their bullshit. But now the media

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Speaker 3: attention had people starting to get pissed off. I understand.

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Speaker 3: Your supporters formed an advocacy group called Montana's for Justice,

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Speaker 3: and then more groups began to form across the state,

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Speaker 3: all to spread the word about your case, and they did. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: Centurion Ministries filed a post conviction relief motion on your

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Speaker 3: behalf in two thousand and eight, including everything from the

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Speaker 3: clemency hearing, but this time they could include the Brady

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Speaker 3: violation about or Burshey, Mike Longtree and finding the clawhammer

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Speaker 3: in the river. And somehow after that and hearing STEFFI

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Speaker 3: Eagleboy courageously testify a Roosevelt County judge somehow saw fit

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Speaker 3: to deny this as well, saying, quote, the prosecutor's brief

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Speaker 3: shows the prosecution has thoroughly reviewed the evidence. Had this

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Speaker 3: shown that Beach was truly innocent, the prosecutor would be

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Speaker 3: morally and ethically bound to see that justice was done

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Speaker 3: end quote. So the judge just exclusively relied on his

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Speaker 3: belief that if you, Barry, were innocent, the state of Montana,

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Speaker 3: who went to these extraordinary lengths to frame you in

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Speaker 3: the first place, would have somehow grown magically grown a

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Speaker 3: conscience and righted that wrong. It's it's unbelievable, but unfortunately true.

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Speaker 3: So they appealed the decision to the Montana Supreme Court,

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Speaker 3: who overturned that decision and granted Barry an evidentiary hearing

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Speaker 3: in August of twenty eleven in front of a district

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Speaker 3: court judge. Meanwhile, your grassroots organizations were getting the word

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Speaker 3: out there and more witnesses were coming forward.

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Speaker 2: And in twenty eleven we actually had an evidence you

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Speaker 2: hearing before Judge E. Wayne Phillips of Fergus County because

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Speaker 2: they also moved the case out of Roosevelt County and

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Speaker 2: had that district judge recusing himself. Centuriyon Ministries brought forth

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Speaker 2: twenty two witnesses at that time. But by that time

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Speaker 2: Dateline NBC had done a national program in April fourth

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Speaker 2: of two thousand and eight called the killing at Poplar River,

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Speaker 2: and that even generated more witnesses and more attention. So

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Speaker 2: by the time we got to this evidence you're hearing

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Speaker 2: in twenty eleven, the facts of the case were so

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Speaker 2: well known throughout the state of Montana, and yet the

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Speaker 2: State of Montana's Attorney general office and law enforcement continue

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Speaker 2: to insist that they had the right person and that

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Speaker 2: the conviction based on the confession was valid. Judge Phillips

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Speaker 2: actually made a ruling to the contrary. Judge Phillips ruled

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Speaker 2: that had the jury heard the testimony of Stephie Eagleboy

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Speaker 2: and some of the other witnesses, that there was no

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Speaker 2: way they could have found me guilty, and he ordered

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Speaker 2: an new trial. This State of Montana's Attorney General's office

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Speaker 2: went ballistic. They appealed his decision.

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Speaker 3: So Barry, at this point, December seventh, twenty eleven, pending

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Speaker 3: your next trial, you were finally released for the first

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Speaker 3: time in twenty nine years on your own recognissance. I mean,

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Speaker 3: what was that like?

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Speaker 2: That release on December seventh, twenty eleven was an absolute

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Speaker 2: miracle because when I was released in Lewistown, the media

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Speaker 2: from Germany were there. The CBC from Canada was there.

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Speaker 2: Dateline NBC was there. There wasn't a news affiliation in Montana.

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Speaker 2: That wasn't there. So I walk out of this courtroom

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Speaker 2: to this crowd, this huge, huge crowd of people were

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Speaker 2: there supporting me, and it just undescribable. And I go

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Speaker 2: home to Billings, Montana to stay with Ziggy ZIGGLERD some

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Speaker 2: really good friends of mine of Ziggy and Stella Ziggler.

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Speaker 2: Here in Billings, Montana, I go for a prison cell

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Speaker 2: to this beautiful, gorgeous house on the side of a

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Speaker 2: mountain overlooking this valley and move forward with life.

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Speaker 3: And you did, but for only eighteen months.

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Speaker 2: For eighteen months, yes, I started a small company. I

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Speaker 2: went to work for a local motel as a chief engineer,

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Speaker 2: where I was second in command over the motel. And

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Speaker 2: that's where I was working when I received eighteen months later,

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Speaker 2: received an absolutely devastating phone call from a media reporter

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Speaker 2: asking me what my opinion was about the Montana Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court decision to send me back to prison. And when

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Speaker 2: he asked me that, I had no clue what he

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00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 2: was talking about, so I had to put him off,

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Speaker 2: call my attorney and I was notified in May of

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen for my attorney, Peter Camille, that I had

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Speaker 2: twenty four hours to turn myself into law enforcement on

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Speaker 2: a life without parole for a crime I did not

407
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Speaker 2: commit and go back to prison for the second time.

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Speaker 2: When they sent me back to prison, there were very

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Speaker 2: few legal options at that point just to get me free.

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Speaker 2: The battle was still focused on exonerating me, but the

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Speaker 2: importance had shifted to freeing me. I filed an executive

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Speaker 2: clemency again back before the pro Board, and they denied

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Speaker 2: it within a couple of days, saying there were no

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Speaker 2: grounds for clemency. It hit the media that I had

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Speaker 2: been denied once again. The citizens organizations in the state

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Speaker 2: of Montana banded together together. They all started writing letters

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Speaker 2: and petitioning the Montana legislature to change the law in

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Speaker 2: the state of Montana. Because when the pro Board at

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Speaker 2: that time denied my executive clemency, that was it. I

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Speaker 2: had no further recourse and more importantly, the chief executive,

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Speaker 2: the governor of the state of Montana, had absolutely no

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Speaker 2: say so. So these groups formed together and they petitioned

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Speaker 2: the state legislature to change the laws in the state

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Speaker 2: of Montana, allowing the governor of the state to have

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Speaker 2: final say so when an executive clemency application had been filed.

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Speaker 2: And we actually filed five legislative bills and all five

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Speaker 2: passed with unanimous vote, changing the entire structure and decision

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Speaker 2: making process of executive clemency in the state of Montana.

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Speaker 2: Governor Steve Bullock then has the final responsibility and making

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Speaker 2: a decision on the executive clemency that had already been

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Speaker 2: denied by the pro board at that point in time.

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Speaker 2: My case has always been a politically influenced case, being

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Speaker 2: that the person who prosecuted my case in nineteen eighty four,

434
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: Mark Roscoe, went on to become the governor of the

435
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,159
Speaker 2: state of Montana. He went on to become George W.

436
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 2: Bush's right hand man during his campaign for presidency, and

437
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: then stayed in contact and influence with the Montana Attorney

438
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: General's office. So Mark Roscoe made this political climb based

439
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 2: on my conviction that was followed up by a guy

440
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,159
Speaker 2: by the name of Mike McGrath. Mike McGrath became the

441
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 2: attorney general after Mark Roscolle became governor, and Mike McGrath

442
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 2: took up the battle against me. Mike McGrath went from

443
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 2: being the Attorney General of the State of Montana to

444
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 2: sitting as the Chief Justice of the Montana Supreme Court.

445
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 2: So when I was filing all these things before the

446
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: Montana Supreme Court, the Chief Justice, Mike McGrath was the

447
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 2: attorney general who fought my appeal process successfully. After Mark Roscoe,

448
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 2: Mike McGrath was succeeded by a guy by the name

449
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 2: of Steve Bullock, who became the Attorney General for the

450
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: State of Montana. It was Steve Bullock who successfully reversed

451
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 2: Judge Phillips's decision to release me and send me back

452
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: to prison. After he's successfully sent me back to prison

453
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: winning that appeal, he became the governor of the State

454
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: of Montana. And here sits Governor Bullock, now with the

455
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: sole responsibility, knowing that he's the one who just sent

456
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 2: me back to prison, now has to make a decision

457
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: as to whether to grant me clemency. Prior to the

458
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 2: governor making the decision on my executive clemency, we had

459
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: century ministries had successfully filed a writ of surcherary before

460
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: the United States Supreme Court, and that rit of surtary

461
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: had been accepted by the United States Supreme Court. That

462
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 2: writ was based on the fact that I was only

463
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: seventeen years old when Kimney's was murdered, and I had

464
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: been given a life without parole sentence. And if you

465
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 2: remember correctly, there was a big swing in the United

466
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: States of America at that time going on that it

467
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:32,479
Speaker 2: was inhumane and unconstitutional to give a juvenile offender a

468
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: life without parole, no matter the circumstances of the crime.

469
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: So the United States Supreme Court accepted that rit of surgerary,

470
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: and we actually had oral arguments set based on that

471
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: and some other cases that had been filed on the

472
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: same issue. What Governor Bullock decided to do with the

473
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: executive clemency is he granted the executive clemency in the

474
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 2: form of a sentence commutation, stating that I was guilty

475
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,479
Speaker 2: of the crime, but had served enough time at thirty

476
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 2: two years or whatever it was, released me put me

477
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 2: on ten years of probation. And as I sit here

478
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: with you today, Jason, I am still convicted of the

479
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 2: murder of kim Nice. I am still on probation with

480
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: the State of Montana, and I have the stigma and

481
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 2: the cloud and the public judgment of being a convicted murderer.

482
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 3: So I have a quote here from Jim McCloskey. He

483
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 3: isn't exonerated officially, but he is free, so he doesn't

484
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: have to worry about the wolf coming back to his door.

485
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 3: The thing is that that's really good, and that's you know,

486
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,479
Speaker 3: obviously the good stuff. But look, it's still hanging over you,

487
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 3: and you definitely want your name cleared. Can people in

488
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 3: our audience help you right now put that in any way?

489
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 2: You know, absolutely, I want to be fully exonerated, and

490
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: I think that the evidence from the crime scene of

491
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 2: kim Nice and the witnesses who testified warrant justice for

492
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 2: Kimney's first and foremost, the state of Montana should take

493
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: responsibility for testing and pursuing the fingerprints, the palm prints,

494
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 2: and anything else that possibly could be in existence to

495
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 2: this day that could link the actual murderers to this crime,

496
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: which would result in me being exonerated. Unfortunately, when I

497
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: was released from prison in twenty fifteen, along with that,

498
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: Centurion Ministries no longer represents me. So I am without

499
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: an attorney, I am without an investigator, and I am

500
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: without the funds to fight my battle any further, but

501
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 2: I do still maintain contact with the organization of Montana's

502
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 2: for Justice and hopes that someday, somewhere there will be

503
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 2: somebody out there willing once again to take on the

504
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 2: State of Montana the blatant facts of this case. I'm

505
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: always hoping and praying. I've reached out to many many

506
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: organizations since my release, hoping to find some help. I believe,

507
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: I honestly believe that there will be justice for Kimney's

508
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 2: before I pass away. I honestly believe I will be

509
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,440
Speaker 2: exonerated by the State of Montana before I die, and

510
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: if there's anybody out there who can contribute to that,

511
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 2: my website is Montanaansforsice dot com. I also have a

512
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: Facebook page out there I can be found. I am

513
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 2: all over social media. My case is all over. You

514
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 2: can research me on dateline NBC. I'm always looking for help. Well.

515
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 3: We're going to have action steps linked in the bio,

516
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 3: as well as links to your website, Montanas for Justice

517
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 3: and link to your Facebook page so people can reach

518
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 3: out to you if they have information they want to offer.

519
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: And please, if you're a Montana and someone who lived

520
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 3: in the area at that time, please do I mean,

521
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,239
Speaker 3: it seems like the no brainer of the century is

522
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 3: testing that you know, any of the physical evidence, any

523
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 3: of the fingerprints. I'm sure there's still blood evidence around.

524
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 3: There's all kinds of physical evidence. In this case, it

525
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 3: should be tested against a group of women who everyone

526
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: seems to have known from the very beginning with the

527
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 3: obvious suspects in this case. And by the way, these

528
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 3: women are all still very much alive. If they have

529
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 3: nothing to hide, then the testing would clear them. So

530
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 3: what are we waiting for? So Barry, Now we go

531
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 3: to the part of the show that I always look

532
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: forward to, which is called closing arguments. And closing arguments

533
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: works like this. I'm going to turn my microphone off,

534
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: kick back in my chair and leave my headphones on

535
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: with my eyes closed, and just listen to anything else

536
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: you want to share with me. And are incredible audience,

537
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: So thank you again. The microphone is yours.

538
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 2: When a person is innocent, sitting in prison, telling their

539
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,479
Speaker 2: story and talking to everybody that they possibly can about

540
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 2: being innocent and trying to show people from the evidence

541
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: that they are innocent and telling people and talking about

542
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 2: their story, that's what they do. I call it the

543
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,240
Speaker 2: fire inside. I have yet to ever meet an innocent

544
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 2: person on a prison yard, and I helped four people

545
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 2: while I was incarcerated. I helped exonerate four people from

546
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: the inside of prison by helping them put together their

547
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 2: bio and helping them reach out to media sources. They

548
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: were all exonerated before I was ever released. They all

549
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: had what I call the fire. You talk to people

550
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 2: you cannot stop talking about the fact I am innocent

551
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: of the murder of Kim Nice. I did not kill

552
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 2: Kim I was not there when Kimneys was killed. I

553
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: had no knowledge of the death of Kimneys until after

554
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 2: the fact. So being able to tell my story on

555
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 2: a podcast all these years later is a continuation of

556
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 2: that fire, but also a continuation of the healing process

557
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 2: and the hope and the hope. It's another seed of

558
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 2: hope that someday somebody listening to this podcast is going

559
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: to be the trigger that leads to my exoneration.

560
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 3: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to

561
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 3: thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Cleibern, and Kevin Wardis,

562
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 3: with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production

563
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 3: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

564
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 3: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

565
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 3: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at

566
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 3: wrong Convict, as well as at Lava for Good. On

567
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 3: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both

568
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 3: TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason flam Ravel Conviction is

569
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 3: the production of Lava for Good podcast and association with

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00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 3: Signal Company Number one