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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert lamp and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,

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Speaker 1: we have talked about haunted houses before check yes and

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Speaker 1: haunted houses. Of course they manipulate if they toy with

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Speaker 1: our responses to sounds and sights and smells, just all

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Speaker 1: just bombarking our senses with all this information. And yet

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Speaker 1: there are people out there who are always thinking, what

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Speaker 1: can we do differently, what can we do that will

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Speaker 1: that will will change the haunted attraction offering? And U

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Speaker 1: a Pennsylvania haunted house has discovered just the means of

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Speaker 1: doing this. That's right. It's called sh october Fest Screen Park.

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Speaker 1: And I like to think of it as splicing my

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Speaker 1: nightmare about public nudity with a haunted house, because this

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Speaker 1: is what they initially offered. The park owner, Patrick kind

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Speaker 1: of Polski. He created this naked and scared challenge to

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Speaker 1: give his guests just another level of heightened fear. It's

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Speaker 1: an add on, it's an add on. In fact, they

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Speaker 1: had I believe the options were nude or prude, and

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Speaker 1: prude is like underwear prude is underwear? Do you get

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Speaker 1: through your underwear? You can go through completely nude. And

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Speaker 1: of course this caught many people's eyes. The story went national,

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Speaker 1: and city officials really frowned upon it. You know, presumably

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Speaker 1: there'd be a lot of liability here with your with

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Speaker 1: your junk hanging out, don't you think, Well, potential, I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of what we're gonna talk about here, is

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Speaker 1: like to what extent? I mean, are you actually more vulnerable,

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Speaker 1: more prone to injury if you're running through hund a

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Speaker 1: house naked? Maybe? But but is it really that different,

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Speaker 1: say from like a summer aware that somebody's wearing, Like,

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Speaker 1: are you really if you're just wearing like swim trunks

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Speaker 1: and a tube top or something, then are you really

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Speaker 1: that that that much more protected? Well, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: when you are wearing a tubetop, how do you feel? Well,

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Speaker 1: not not a tube I guess something of like a

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Speaker 1: what do you call it, like a sleeveless kind of shirt. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know that is the question. So unfortunately, the owners

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Speaker 1: of the screen park, we're not able to actually pull

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Speaker 1: this off because again city officials were not liking this.

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Speaker 1: So they do have the prude option. So so the

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Speaker 1: prude option is still around. You can run through your underwear, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which I do think there's still a nice level of

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Speaker 1: venerability there and we'll definitely talk more about this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it depends on the underwear though, because like boxers, I

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Speaker 1: feel like boxers that's more protection, you know, because they

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Speaker 1: boxers look a little more like shorts. And then if

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Speaker 1: you throw in like an underwear shirt as well, I

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Speaker 1: mean you're basically clothed at that point. If you count

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Speaker 1: socks is underwear even more so. Yeah, but tidy Whitey's

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Speaker 1: are keeping it closer to the boxy t whities I

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Speaker 1: think would would need to be the rule, because tidy

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Speaker 1: whities are both a little more skimpy and also ridiculous looking,

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Speaker 1: so there would be no It's not like you're wearing

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Speaker 1: like wrestling tights in there and you're ready to go.

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Speaker 1: If you're wearing tidy Whitey's, you're wearing this ridiculous dingy

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Speaker 1: white underwear with a penis flap in the front, which

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Speaker 1: I've never understood that I think is for another episode. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: m but we should probably also discuss the television show

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Speaker 1: which is called Naked and Afraid yes, and you were

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Speaker 1: telling me about this and I thought you were making

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Speaker 1: this up. I thought this was a Julie pitch for

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Speaker 1: a for a reality show. But as it turns out,

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Speaker 1: someone beat you to it on this one. Yes, someone did,

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Speaker 1: and actually our our mother company, Discovery Really Communications, actually

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Speaker 1: produces this show. But it does seem like something that

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Speaker 1: would be on thirty Rock. That's like, you know, Milk Island,

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Speaker 1: but no naked and Fred takes to survivalists a man

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Speaker 1: and a woman and they dropped them in the middle

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Speaker 1: of an isolated area naked for twenty one days with

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Speaker 1: no food or water, like rural Georgia or uh no,

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Speaker 1: I think Costa Rica, Panama. Some were fabulous, some were

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Speaker 1: fabulous and isolated and um. But you know, again, here's

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Speaker 1: this fascination with this idea that we strip ourselves down

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Speaker 1: to the essence, you know, bear as babies, and we

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Speaker 1: go out into the world and try to fend off

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Speaker 1: all the actual real threats as well as the imagined threats. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's the thing itself, right, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: the the the the bare human without any of the

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Speaker 1: clothing and armor that we've built up over the ages. Well,

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Speaker 1: and that kind of takes us to this this other

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Speaker 1: place where we have to say, as organisms, why in

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Speaker 1: the world are we naked anyway? I mean, we are

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Speaker 1: obviously doing pretty well as a species. Homo sapiens are

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Speaker 1: killing it out there literally. Um, but you know, we

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Speaker 1: don't have hard shells, we don't have claws to attack

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Speaker 1: people with, because we do have these big, beautiful brains.

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Speaker 1: That's right. We've you know, we we talked about beards,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about to some degree, there are arguments

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Speaker 1: that the beard gives a certain amount of protection against

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Speaker 1: bites or scratches or strangulation or what have you. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: for the most part, like the naked human is a

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Speaker 1: pretty unremarkable creature. It doesn't have horns, it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: any of these crazy additions except those that we've invented

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Speaker 1: over the years with that tremendous brain. And I want

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Speaker 1: to point out I think the beard, although it could

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Speaker 1: blunt a blow to the jaw, I would think that

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Speaker 1: someone can actually like drag you around with it be hindrance. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we got into that a little bit too,

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Speaker 1: Like the the subject of beards in fighting sports, to

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Speaker 1: what degree, you know, you can grab onto a beard,

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Speaker 1: and that was one of the reasons that Alexander the

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Speaker 1: Great supposedly told all of the soldiers they had to

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Speaker 1: shave the beard because someone could grab it and then

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Speaker 1: stab you in the eye a few times. Whereas they're

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Speaker 1: also those in the M M A world who say, well,

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Speaker 1: if you grew out just enough stubble, then you can

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Speaker 1: rub that into people's face and you have an offensive weapon. Uh,

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Speaker 1: just as a female. And the beards that are in

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Speaker 1: that stage, yes, are quite awful, sort of like to

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Speaker 1: archer devices. I can't help but that one. Um. All right,

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna look at a creature here, the octopus,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to try to get down to this

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Speaker 1: idea of a nudity and brain power. Yes, the octopus,

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Speaker 1: of course is an amazing creature. Recently, we were talking

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Speaker 1: about the way that the podcast has changed the way

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Speaker 1: that we approach our lives, and I mentioned that I

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Speaker 1: don't eat octopy anymore because I in our research, I've

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Speaker 1: discovered how brilliant they are in their own way. And

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Speaker 1: I say in their own way, because take, for instance,

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Speaker 1: the mirror test for self awareness, one of the hallmarks

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Speaker 1: of of of of of intelligence and uh, you can.

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Speaker 1: There are a number of organisms that can pass this test,

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Speaker 1: including including humans, including uh, some some primates, etcetera. Uh.

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Speaker 1: An octopus will fail the test because the octopus does

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Speaker 1: not have this mammalion brain. It has a very advanced brain,

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Speaker 1: but it is it is evolved in the state from

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Speaker 1: from a far distant starting point than any of these

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Speaker 1: other examples that we have, these vertebrate examples. So they

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Speaker 1: incredibly brilliant creatures, but in a very different sense, in

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Speaker 1: a very alien sense. Yeah. And for for a long time,

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Speaker 1: scientists have been saying, we don't understand how it could

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Speaker 1: have such extreme intelligence and be so very different from

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Speaker 1: our own nervous systems. And here's why. Octopuses have five

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Speaker 1: hundred million neurons to our one hundred billion. So you'd

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Speaker 1: think that they would come up short in the smarts department. Um,

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Speaker 1: but about two thirds of its brains are distributed in

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Speaker 1: its arms, and it's dedicated to the fine operation of

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Speaker 1: these limbs and and doing really nuanced and complex things camouflage,

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Speaker 1: changing its shape, changing its color, um and all of

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Speaker 1: these problems solving powers that they notoriously have that anytime

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Speaker 1: you read about them, you'll be hear aquarium owners or

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Speaker 1: researchers talk about what great escape artists they are. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's because they've got hundreds of suckers, you know, lining

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Speaker 1: these limbs, and all the neurons to go with it. Now,

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Speaker 1: the rest of the neurons are split between a central

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Speaker 1: brain that is surrounding the esophagus and large optic lobes

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Speaker 1: behind the eyes. So you think about this, and then

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Speaker 1: you think about different accounts of things that octopuses have done.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the researcher who had something like five

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Speaker 1: different octopuses and separate tanks, and she had some old

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Speaker 1: food and she knew that they wouldn't be crazy about it,

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Speaker 1: like like rancid and not rancid, but like old frozen squid,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah, not nothing fresh um. And she she fed

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Speaker 1: all of them. And then as she was walking back up,

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Speaker 1: she came up to the first tank and she saw

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Speaker 1: the octopus was staring at her, and it seemed to

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Speaker 1: her that the octopus actually waited until they made eye contact,

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Speaker 1: and the octopus stuffed the food down the drain, as

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Speaker 1: if to say, not only do I reject this, but

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Speaker 1: I'm going to show you to what degree I rejected,

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Speaker 1: and I want to make sure that you're paying attention here,

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Speaker 1: not mere rejection, that rejection with spite. Yes, exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So there are so many different accounts of these sorts

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Speaker 1: of great things, you know, stuffing themselves into empty coconut

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Speaker 1: shells that have fallen on the ocean for in order

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Speaker 1: to escape predators. Hot wiring cars, yeah, hot credit cards yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: So from the article how the freaky octopus help us

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Speaker 1: to helps us to understand the human brain and wired,

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to read this quote says the octopus

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Speaker 1: got smart because the octopus got soft, or vice versa.

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Speaker 1: It has no bones, no shell, no scary spikes. So

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Speaker 1: if the octopus wanted to go hunting in an ocean

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Speaker 1: full of fish, they're also hunting. Sometimes for octopus, it

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Speaker 1: had to become fiendishly clever, not unlike a certain shell less, clawless,

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Speaker 1: fur less primate. We could mention. Yeah, because when we've

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Speaker 1: discussed before, when it comes to evolution, like the ocean

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Speaker 1: is an incredibly dangerous place, like far more so than

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Speaker 1: than the surface world, just teeming with dangers. And so

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Speaker 1: there's just the the the arms race there is just

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Speaker 1: elevated to a degree you don't. You tend not to

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Speaker 1: see on the surface world, you know, I guess in

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Speaker 1: the jungle can say it's it's close. But but for

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Speaker 1: the most part the ocean is just this deadly race.

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Speaker 1: And so you look at the octopus and when it's

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Speaker 1: when it's alive and moving, you you are seeing all

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Speaker 1: the shifting of shapes and colors. It can make its

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Speaker 1: texture look hard and rough and rugged. But if you

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Speaker 1: have a dead octopus and it just you know, washes

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Speaker 1: up on the beach, it just looks like a sack

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Speaker 1: of flesh. There's nothing there's nothing hard, there's nothing rugged

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Speaker 1: about it. In a sense, it's all bluff, it's all

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Speaker 1: it's it's a it's it's neurons powering up and creating

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Speaker 1: this display. And you can maybe easily make the argument

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Speaker 1: that humans have done the same thing, though, instead of

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Speaker 1: making our skin crawl with crazy textures and change colors

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Speaker 1: and all, we have invested in clothing. We've invested in

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Speaker 1: in garments and and in some cases actual armor that

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Speaker 1: makes us physically tougher, but in other cases stuff that

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Speaker 1: changes the the the the visual proposition of what we

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Speaker 1: are as an individual in the species, well as landlovers

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Speaker 1: to um. You know, we we got our neo cortex

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Speaker 1: as mammalian have, and that really up the game too,

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Speaker 1: because now we have theory of mind. I can try

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Speaker 1: to figure out what you're thinking and trying to strategize

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Speaker 1: around that. UM. So you're normally just taking in all

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Speaker 1: that data, but you are analyzing it to such a degree.

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Speaker 1: So it is interesting how you put it that way.

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Speaker 1: You've got the ocean, which is an entirely different game,

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Speaker 1: and so you would have organisms developing different intelligence systems

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Speaker 1: as opposed to you know, what we're doing here on

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Speaker 1: the land. But of course the one thread that runs

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Speaker 1: through all of this is this vulnerability, this nakedness. Now,

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Speaker 1: one area where this this idea of heightened vulnerability want

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Speaker 1: while nude, really comes into play, uh is in our

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Speaker 1: promotion pictures because for the most part, most of us

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Speaker 1: have not had the experience of running through a hounted

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Speaker 1: house naked or fighting for our lives naked, but are

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Speaker 1: our heroes and heroin's sometimes do encounter the situation. A

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Speaker 1: few examples that instantly come to mind, of course, Eastern

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Speaker 1: promises yes with Viga Morton sence that scene of him

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Speaker 1: in the shower digging it out with a Russian mafia members,

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Speaker 1: like a pack of clothed Russian mafia members with knives.

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Speaker 1: That he's just naked and like like just very you know,

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Speaker 1: covered in tattoos, very loupine looking, you know, I'm gonna say,

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Speaker 1: very animal like looking, and he's just fighting for his

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Speaker 1: life and he's being stabbed and beaten. I can't think

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Speaker 1: of a scene that made me WinCE more honestly than

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Speaker 1: that scene. When I saw it, I was covering it

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Speaker 1: like it was just a horror, you know, film, and

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Speaker 1: that there was like blood. Of course there was no blood,

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Speaker 1: but yes, very effective use of nakedness. So that's that's

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Speaker 1: easily the one that came to mind mind the most.

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Speaker 1: Some other films that have included some some similar scenes.

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Speaker 1: I've forgotten about this, but Memento has a scene where

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Speaker 1: Guy Pierce is assaulted one naked and he's like fighting

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Speaker 1: him off, but it's nowhere near as as as intense

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Speaker 1: as Eastern promises. There's a scene in American Psycho where

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Speaker 1: Christian Bale's running around naked with a chainsaw, but that's

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Speaker 1: different because he's the one with the chainsaw. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you're carring a chainsaw. Then you're kind of not

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Speaker 1: really naked. Uh. There's a scene in The Hangover where

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Speaker 1: an individual is naked and attack somebody. There's a scene

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Speaker 1: in Beowulf School Ties there's like a shower fight. Um Fargo,

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Speaker 1: I've forgotten about this with the scene where is um

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Speaker 1: is making love to a prostitute and uh and an

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Speaker 1: individual comes in and starts roughing them up and just

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Speaker 1: throwing them all over the place. There's of course a

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Speaker 1: scene in Borat where uh where bora At wrestles an

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Speaker 1: individual and they're both naked and uh and it's it's awful,

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Speaker 1: it's awful. Um. There's a there's of course, the the

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Speaker 1: old Kin Russell film Women in Love. It is kind

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Speaker 1: of famous for a nude wrestling scene with Oliver read uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, very you know, in a very manly sense.

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Speaker 1: Uh and uh and then uh. When it comes to

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Speaker 1: uh to literature, I'm instantly reminded of C. S. Lewis's Perlandra,

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Speaker 1: which which has a lot of new like the they

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Speaker 1: could probably never film it because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: nudity in it. The character Ransom lands on this uh,

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Speaker 1: this fictional version of Planet Venus it's also kind of

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Speaker 1: like Eten a biblical Eden. So he lands there and

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Speaker 1: he's walking around naked. And then a scientist by the

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Speaker 1: name of Professor Western lands as well in a little spaceship,

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Speaker 1: Western is clothed. That Western is also possessed by uh,

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Speaker 1: the devil, And it eventually gets to a situation where

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Speaker 1: they have this this fight and it's like the devil

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Speaker 1: is biting at him and all, and he's fighting him naked,

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Speaker 1: and it's and I remember it as being very very

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Speaker 1: nail biding ye yeah, um, which I think is interesting

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Speaker 1: because it brings in that element when you talk about

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Speaker 1: eating and talk about devil, uh, this element of shame.

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Speaker 1: And because what happened to Adam and e if they

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Speaker 1: they screwed up and so suddenly they can't walk around

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Speaker 1: naked anymore. They have to wear those leaves, and that

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Speaker 1: wrought all sorts of psychoanalysis for them. Yeah, especially when

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Speaker 1: fall fashions hit, because they just crumble at the slightest

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Speaker 1: movement and then they have to grab more leaves. It's

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Speaker 1: a problem. Let's take a break and when we get

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Speaker 1: back we will talk about this shame associated with nudgedness.

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Speaker 1: All right, We're back and we are going to dive

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Speaker 1: into nudity and shame. Yeah, And you know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: interesting to to think about nudity and shame because I

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Speaker 1: often feel like in Eastern promises, it never crossed my mind. Oh,

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Speaker 1: poor Vigo, it's so shameful that he's having to fight naked,

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Speaker 1: you know, like I don't like chain doesn't really factor

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Speaker 1: into my fear for him. But obviously shame is a

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Speaker 1: huge part of nudity in our version of nudity, particularly

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Speaker 1: in UH in Western culture. Well, what's interesting to you

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Speaker 1: about a lot of the clips that we saw that

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Speaker 1: we're sort of the top ten list of naked vibes

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Speaker 1: is that not one woman showed up in those Oh

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Speaker 1: excuse me, one did she was having with the nude

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Speaker 1: guy who was shooting Oh yeah, Clive Owen and Monica

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Speaker 1: well belus the one who is uh in the matrix, Okay,

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Speaker 1: yes her. So what's interesting about that is that those

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Speaker 1: nude scenes with women that you know, that's the violence.

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Speaker 1: Normally in a nude scene with a woman is voisted

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Speaker 1: upon them. It's not usually a fight scene in which

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Speaker 1: you know, they're toting guns around our knives. Um, so

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Speaker 1: it's kind of interesting to see shame and nudity rendered

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Speaker 1: in that way. But we have to we have to

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Speaker 1: think about what is shame and also we have to

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Speaker 1: differentiate shame from guilt. So how would you how would

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Speaker 1: you describe guilt? Like, if you're guilty about something, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a rather different animal than shame. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: according to a collaboration between scientists at the University of

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Speaker 1: Buffalo's Research Institute on Addictions and George Mason University in Fairfax,

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Speaker 1: shame is definitely not the same as guilt, and shame

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Speaker 1: actually has implications regarding misuse of alcohol and drugs. So

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Speaker 1: all that shame that we think about in terms of

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Speaker 1: our body, it's more of a thought construct, right, It's

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Speaker 1: not associated with an act. Usually, So if I have

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Speaker 1: a dream about being naked in public, and this is

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Speaker 1: more of a nightmare, it's more of an impending feeling

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Speaker 1: that I have, um, you know, I have done something.

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Speaker 1: It's little dread anxiety associated with a shame as opposed

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Speaker 1: to like, you know, I did something sexual or bad.

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Speaker 1: You know this one act. Yeah, guilt tends to imply

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Speaker 1: to that you you really did something wrong, that you're

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Speaker 1: responsible for you know that you're culpable in whereas shame

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Speaker 1: not necessarily like, if you're ashamed of your body, you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna be persecuted because your body doesn't match your

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Speaker 1: own personal expectations of it and uh and and likewise,

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Speaker 1: it's this study looked into uh when when they were

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Speaker 1: dealing with shame, like individuals who had like the bodily

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Speaker 1: uh signs of shame, like the sunken shoulders, and those

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Speaker 1: were the ones that were more likely to relapse into

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Speaker 1: their addictive behaviors. Yeah, we should mention that these studies

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Speaker 1: were all surrounding addictions and behavior. And the first study

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Speaker 1: that they had, it was three groups of participants with

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Speaker 1: different levels of alcohol or drug problems. There were two

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Speaker 1: groups that were primarily female college students about twenty years old.

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Speaker 1: The third group was comprised of predominantly male inmates from

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Speaker 1: a jail who were on average about thirty one years old.

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Speaker 1: And what they found is that shame is the tendency

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Speaker 1: to feel really bad about yourself following a specific event,

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Speaker 1: and people who are prone to shame when dealing with

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Speaker 1: a variety of life problems may also have a tendency

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Speaker 1: to turn towards alcohol and other drugs to cope with

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Speaker 1: this feeling. So that's what the deal is with guilt

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Speaker 1: and shame. It turns out that guilt um which is

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Speaker 1: again something that you're feeling bad about, which is a

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Speaker 1: specific behavior action that is unrelated to substance use problems.

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Speaker 1: And as you had mentioned, there was a follow up

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Speaker 1: study that looked at the body language of people who

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Speaker 1: felt shame about their addiction and could accurately predict whether

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Speaker 1: or not that person would have a relapse. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: you know, the more I think about, shame seems to

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Speaker 1: really make more sense in terms of something that is

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Speaker 1: an ongoing issue, you know, something that could be seen

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Speaker 1: as a if not a character flaw, then a then

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Speaker 1: a deep flaw in that person, either physically or spiritually mentally,

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Speaker 1: what have you. Yeah, and I think that's with the

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Speaker 1: interesting part of the body language what it's telling the

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Speaker 1: observers here in this study. I said that was a

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Speaker 1: follow up and it's actually not. It's University of British

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Speaker 1: Columbia study. So there's forty six participants who were videotaped

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Speaker 1: several sessions throughout the year that they found those greater

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Speaker 1: levels of shame behaviors, and that first session showed that

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Speaker 1: they were more likely to relapse by the second session.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, any sort of written or verbal

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Speaker 1: expressions of shame did not predict the likelihood of relapse.

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Speaker 1: It was that again, the physical manifestation of what shame

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Speaker 1: looks like, which leads into the research conducted by Burnet Brown,

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Speaker 1: who's a professor of University of Houston Graduate College of

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Speaker 1: Social Work, and she studies shame for six years and

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Speaker 1: she found a lot of a lot of correlation between

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Speaker 1: shame and not only addiction, which we've been discussing, but

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Speaker 1: also depression, violence, aggression, bullying, suicide, and eating disorders. So

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Speaker 1: she makes the argument that that guilt is more useful, uncomfortable,

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Speaker 1: but but adaptive, you know. It's it's something that can

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Speaker 1: actually be spun off into positive growth, where a shame

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Speaker 1: is more And we get into, you know, discussing shame

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Speaker 1: spirals and this idea that that that shame is not

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Speaker 1: only feeling feeling responsible for what you did and realizing

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Speaker 1: that what you did is wrong on some level, but

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Speaker 1: but feeling this this low level of self worth about

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Speaker 1: it that you almost don't have the the energy to

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Speaker 1: to to fight the temptation or the or the need

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Speaker 1: to do it again. You know what's interesting about that

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Speaker 1: is when you talk about the human body, you talk

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Speaker 1: about nudity, some people will have very strong reactions to

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Speaker 1: their image and they might have, you know, eating disorders

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Speaker 1: or other disorders that sort of warped their sense of

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Speaker 1: um self esteem. And what Brown says is that perfectionism,

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Speaker 1: which you often see with eating disorders, is a form

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Speaker 1: of shame. And she said, where we struggle with perfectionism,

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Speaker 1: we struggle with shame. Research shows that perfections perfectionism hampers achievement.

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Speaker 1: Perfectionism is correlated with depression, anxiety, addiction, and life paralysis

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Speaker 1: or missed opportunities. The fear of failing, making mistakes, not

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Speaker 1: meeting people's expectations, of being criticized, keeps us outside of

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Speaker 1: the arena were healthy competition and striving unfolds. It reminds

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Speaker 1: me of that episode of Community where where they're all

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Speaker 1: taking this pottery class and uh and uh and Jeff

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Speaker 1: Wingers failing miserably added and it's just really frustrated with

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Speaker 1: his miserable pottery because he was hoping it would be

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Speaker 1: an easy class and to pick up women. And then

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Speaker 1: there's this there's this doctor in the class. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: so he's already an overachiever in some respects and then

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Speaker 1: he's also creating this beautiful pottery even though it's like

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Speaker 1: a pottery one on one class and uh, and so

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Speaker 1: the characters are arguing over whether this guy is you know,

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Speaker 1: an expert who's come in to just pretend that he's

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Speaker 1: just starting and he's a natural or you know, or

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Speaker 1: or he just is a natural. And at the end

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Speaker 1: of the episode, you you get insight into this, uh,

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Speaker 1: this doctor's uh like dark inner monologue where he's he's

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Speaker 1: really striving after this perfectionism met out of this deep

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Speaker 1: sense of shame. Isn't that funny? And that that that

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Speaker 1: even the results will never be good enough. Right, so

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Speaker 1: even if he produces this piece of pottery that's museum grade, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because he's because he's coming in it from the sense

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Speaker 1: of shame, the sense that you'll never achieve what is

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Speaker 1: expected up. Yeah, and we'll talk a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about some of burn A. Brown's insights into shame and vulnerability.

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Speaker 1: But I did want to mention um that bowling in nudity,

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Speaker 1: in in virtual reality is a thing. Um. The point

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Speaker 1: of this two thousand and seventh study of the game

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Speaker 1: Second Life was actually just tried to figure out how

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Speaker 1: bowling would work with new residents of Second Life. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure everybody is familiar with Second Life. Uh, this virtual

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Speaker 1: representation of yourself and this virtual world that you can

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Speaker 1: insert yourself into, and it's a highly social world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's not just creatures running around killing monsters or you know,

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Speaker 1: or fighting each other. There's like, for instance, I attended

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Speaker 1: a church service in one once. I'm not really a

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Speaker 1: Second Life user, but I was attending a church service

427
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: and one of the organizers they're put on uh like

428
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 1: on the screen a church service that was going on

429
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: in Second life, and so there were all these characters

430
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: they were worshiping and as their avatars in this virtual environment.

431
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: So if you're not familiar with Second Life, just be

432
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: aware of at any and everything seems to go on there, right,

433
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you basically can conduct a version of your

434
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: life in Second Life your avatar. You can do things

435
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: obviously that you never could do in your life. Right,

436
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: And for many people creates, it's a tremendous social outlet

437
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: that they might not have, especially if you know, if

438
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: they're uh, you know, they're they're in an area or

439
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 1: in a place in their life where they don't have

440
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, physical access to to you know, some sort

441
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: of supporting community. Well. Researchers from Nottingham University Business School

442
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: with the permission of Lindon Lamb, who who developed Second Life,

443
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 1: they set up a cyber based focus group to discuss

444
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: the problem of bullying directly with residents of Second Life.

445
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: Um and the new residents they found were often the

446
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: target of bullying, which included destroying a newbie's house, right, so,

447
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:50,120
Speaker 1: a newbie avatar's house, shooting him or her swearing at

448
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,520
Speaker 1: them and then displays a public nudity from the bully,

449
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: or like making the other person naked from the bully. Now,

450
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: in some ways, this is this is trying to shame

451
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: the residents by showing them how how highly they have

452
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: mastered their their abilities of their avatar, you know, to

453
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 1: say like this is how you get naked. Well, I'm

454
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: gonna show you. I'm gonna get naked in front of

455
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: you right now, because that's that's the level of my abilities.

456
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,199
Speaker 1: But um, and you knew you don't even know how

457
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: to put your clothes on. But on on another level too,

458
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:28,159
Speaker 1: it's sort of an aggressive act in the sense that

459
00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: nudity itself is offensive or just sort of breaking social norms.

460
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: I think it's breaking social norms, taking on the power

461
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: of nudity to to expose oneself in this virtual realm.

462
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: It's got a lot of layers to it. Actually, yeah, well,

463
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean yeah. Like, for instance, um, one of the

464
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,719
Speaker 1: stories you've told before is when you were in New

465
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: York World Science Festival and like a new order the

466
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 1: few topless stopless. I think right, she was topless. She

467
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 1: just had like cut off geane shore shoes on, but

468
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,119
Speaker 1: no top and she was just walking down the street

469
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: and she had crossed in front of a church. Now

470
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: at the same time, there was a bride emerging from

471
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: a car and about to to go up the steps.

472
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: So at the same time this was happening, and I

473
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: was absolutely amazed because I felt like I was the

474
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: only person who noticed, you know, bare breasted woman coming

475
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: at me, but everybody else was looking at the bride.

476
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: M So to I wonder what extent she was weaponizing nudity,

477
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: or you know, using it as a blunt instrument. I

478
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,399
Speaker 1: did not get the sense that she was just had

479
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: forgotten to put her shirt on that day. I did

480
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: get the sense that she was doing in a very

481
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: intentional way, and I kept looking around for cameras and

482
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: I did not see any. Well, we've spoken about performance

483
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: artists before, and there are many, many examples of performance

484
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: artists using nudity as a way to in some cases

485
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: you knows, as an alluring method, but often it's kind

486
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: of like a shock. Uh. Some for instance, and I

487
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: forget the name of the artist here. It's referenced in

488
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: our how hula hoops article works on how stuff works,

489
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: but there was I want to say it was an

490
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 1: Israeli or Palestinian artist who did this video series where

491
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 1: it's like a woman naked hula hooping with a hula

492
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 1: hoop made out of barbed wire. So it's not alluring

493
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 1: at all. I mean some maybe, but um, but there's

494
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: this you know, you're hit with the sense of she's naked,

495
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: she's vulnerable, and then for some reason, the whula hoop

496
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: is made out of barbed wire and you see it

497
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: like cutting into her flesh, and uh, it's it's very disturbing.

498
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: It reminds me of some of the work that we've

499
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: talked about with Maria Abramovitch, who, um, she had one

500
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 1: performance art installation in which she was naked and then

501
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: she laid down next to a variety of objects. I

502
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: think there was a gun, there, there was a rose,

503
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: a couple of other objects, and people could interact with

504
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: her using those objects, and she found that people got

505
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: progressively uh more violent or just even threatening with her.

506
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: So what we're seeing here is that nudity is both

507
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: the seat of vulnerability but can also be the seat

508
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 1: of courage. Because on one hand, we can think of

509
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,000
Speaker 1: of the Emperor's new Clothing, where here's this uh, here's

510
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: this buffoon who thinks he's wearing clothing and everyone's mocking

511
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 1: him because he's just walking around naked through the streets.

512
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: Or you think of any example from uh, you know,

513
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: in any kind of historical or biblical account where individuals

514
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: are stripped naked and reduced, you know, any any kind

515
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 1: of slavery or imprisonment situation. Uh, you know, examples of

516
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: Babu Grabe come to mind as well, where individuals are

517
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: are stripped of their clothing and and and in doing

518
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: so the strip of their dignity, and it's and it's used,

519
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: you know, as a as a weapon against them. But

520
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: then there are other examples where the nudity is very

521
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: much a symbol of cur I mean, think of all

522
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: the Greek statues we have of of these nude individuals,

523
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: you know, wrestling with each other, or a nude man

524
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: wrestling a centaur um in any any example like this

525
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: where the nudy is is their their seat of strength.

526
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of those examples, not the

527
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: Steve b. Simione, but some of those examples that we

528
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: talked about in movies, that's what they're really going for

529
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: there too. It's like the man himself is, you know,

530
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 1: without clothing, is bravely fighting like like some Greek statue

531
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: who are some classical painting. Yeah, I mean there is

532
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: this idea that um in the flesh, completely stripped down,

533
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: you are actually taking the shackles of whatever it is

534
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: that we settle ourselves with and casting them away. And

535
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: I think of our friends, the Germans, who did this

536
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: really well. In fact, there's something called frank culture which

537
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: I listened to fourvo about fifty times to try to

538
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: say that. And I still will apologize to her German

539
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: friends out there, but this translates to free body culture

540
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 1: and naturism is really big for for Germans. This is so,

541
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: this is nudism, this is uh, this is being free

542
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: with your body, walking around nude in in a not

543
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: necessarily sexual just saying I am a nature boy. But

544
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: it's more than what we think of here in the

545
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: United States when we think about nudity and public nudity

546
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: and we think about these different areas where basically like

547
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: recreation parks where you can go and be nude. I mean,

548
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: this has its roots pretty strongly in Germany. In fact,

549
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: that movement that nature is a movement got its foothold

550
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: in the late nineteenth century during the Victorian area era.

551
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: So that's pretty amazing, right, And the first nudist camp

552
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: opened near Hamburg in nineteen o three. Now one in

553
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: ten Germans take a naked vacation at least once a year.

554
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: Oh that's awesome, But I know that's just according to

555
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: Kirk Fisher, a president of German Association for Free Body Culture.

556
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: By the way, so again there's this idea that there's

557
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: more of an exceptence of one's body. Yeah, I mean

558
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: I get it. I definitely get a sense of that

559
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 1: when I go to the Korean sauna that we have locally,

560
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: and granted it's it's segregated by by gender, but in

561
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: the the in the men's side, decide that I go

562
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: to um you see all different body types. So they

563
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,960
Speaker 1: will be, you know, there'll be some like young dude

564
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: who's like super cut, There'll be some just old wretched

565
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 1: looking individually everything in between, and and what you know,

566
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: your first exposure to it may be a little you know,

567
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: like whoa, everyone's naked and I'm naked, what's going on here?

568
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: But then I do feel like it quickly settles and

569
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: you suddenly really don't care. My experience there was that,

570
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: and I was on the female side, was that I

571
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: could not believe the variety of body types because as

572
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: a female, taking in all the various bits of media,

573
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: you know, you tend to see the same bodies over

574
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: and over again. And I don't go around seeing a

575
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: lot of naked women around me. So to be in

576
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 1: a room with women who were not representative of media

577
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: but representative of the greater culture was amazing. And that

578
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: was what my brain was trying to square as all

579
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: this different shapes and then, as you say, it just

580
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: sort of became like these are bodies. Yeah, so I

581
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 1: can see where that would be really liberating for people,

582
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: and it can I think I can see where. It's

583
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: also difficult to understand if you haven't you know, gone

584
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: to a sauna environment like that, if you haven't skinny

585
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: dip you know, it's some hippie get together or something

586
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: where on the outside it seems like it might be

587
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: something kind of sleazy, like people are going to be

588
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: naked in the same area. There's something wrong going on here.

589
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 1: But no, it's uh, I mean, has its roots with

590
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: with ancient bath cultures that outside of you know, Scandinavia

591
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: really dried up over the past several centuries. I will

592
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: be honest though and say that I hoped um that

593
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't see anybody that I knew. Uh. Yeah, I've

594
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: never encountered someone that I know. But my wife has

595
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 1: like encountered people where they she either knew them or

596
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: they knew somebody she knew, And I guess that could

597
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,480
Speaker 1: be a little weird. But on the men's side, there's

598
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: not a lot of like I understand that the lady

599
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: said is more chit chat. But on the min's side,

600
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: it's a lot of dudes sly sort of staring at

601
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: the floor. Yeah, there's a lot going on the on

602
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: the female side. I'm not even going to get into it.

603
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard um all right. So I wanted

604
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 1: to bring up Burnet Brown again because she has a

605
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: really nice ted talk on vulnerability, emotional nakedness what we're

606
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: talking about here, and um, she has said that as

607
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: a culture, that we are doing harm to ourselves and

608
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 1: not allowing ourselves to be vulnerable or show that, um,

609
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: show our weaknesses and that trying to covering them up again,

610
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: just like perfectionism closes us down and closes us down

611
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: to opportunity. Yeah, it reminds me a lot of our

612
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: recent episode on clothes Cognition about how clothing that we

613
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: wear changes that the the idea of who we are,

614
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: the feeling, the internal feeling of who we are, but

615
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 1: also the version of ourselves that we're putting out there.

616
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: And uh, and when you you strip it all down

617
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: and you're just dealing with the creature itself, then I

618
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: mean that the speed with which we actually understand another

619
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: person increases. So have all these levels of clothing that

620
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: change the proposition of who we are both to ourselves

621
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: and to outsiders what happens in the mind, in the

622
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 1: brain itself when we strip away all that clothing, when

623
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: we consider each other, well, your brain actually gets a

624
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 1: boost and power. It turns out, because if someone were

625
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: to look at a bunch of images of nude people

626
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: as opposed to clothe people, signists have seen that their brains,

627
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: which of course our scan by m R I, are

628
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: able to process those images much faster. So on one hand,

629
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: you could say, no, that's because they don't have to

630
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: deal with all of the detail that in clothes. Cognition,

631
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,320
Speaker 1: for instance, might put forth all those symbols inherent in

632
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 1: the clothing, bird symbols and then clothing symbols, color theory,

633
00:34:54,480 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: um reshaping of the body, and camouflaging of our he

634
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: faults through clothing. Thanks thanks that that takes up a

635
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 1: lot of time in cognition there does um. You could

636
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: say though, that just seeing the naked human form, get

637
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: that you get a boost in your brain because that's

638
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: something that is so easily recognized to us, and it's

639
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: something that I guess on a reproductive level, we would

640
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: have a response to which someone could argue that that's

641
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: one of the reasons we enjoy looking at nudity and art,

642
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: not merely from a you know, a sort of you know,

643
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: alluring subside, though obviously, uh, you know, figures of the

644
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: naked female or male form are pleasing to the eye.

645
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,760
Speaker 1: But but then they also may just sort of refresh

646
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: us in a way. It's kind of like, imagine a

647
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 1: workplace where you just have it like an anatomical almost

648
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,520
Speaker 1: you know, voyager plaque esque image of the nude male

649
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: and a nude female on the wall, and just so

650
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: every now and then, like things start getting complicated and

651
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: and and uh and and worrisome, you can look up

652
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: and be like, oh, well, that's what we are right

653
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 1: there that creates that creature, and that creature well, and

654
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: there's something that's um that that's equalizing about that. Right.

655
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: So everybody is naked, right, and they always say that

656
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: when you go and you give a talk, right, yeah,

657
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: And and it it makes more sense when you think

658
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: of it that way. It's like, look at the they're

659
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: just people just like you and me, and if you

660
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: were to take their clothes off, they all look varying

661
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: degrees of ridiculous. Now, that's what burn A Brown says.

662
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: That is the courage of doing that emotionally and to

663
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: show people that at the bottom of everything, we are

664
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: all human. We all have, you know, the same emotions,

665
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 1: the same sort of um hurts and and and the

666
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: same sort of joys and rewards in life. So she

667
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: says that we should be able to show that, to

668
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,839
Speaker 1: show our our emotional nudity to people. And she says

669
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: that that actually is what makes something accessible, because otherwise

670
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,480
Speaker 1: it's very hard to relate to other people if they

671
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 1: seem perfect, right, if they don't seem emotionally available vulnerable. Yeah,

672
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: And I've also found that like like real nudity, Like

673
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,320
Speaker 1: there's emotional nudity where it's coming from a place of

674
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: honesty and you're like, oh, well this is this is

675
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 1: a real person. And then there's kind of aggressive emotional nudity.

676
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: It's like narcissistic nudity. Yeah, like stop waving your emotions

677
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 1: in my face kind of kind of thing. Well, I

678
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 1: wanted to to read this bit that Berne Brown actually

679
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,439
Speaker 1: brought up in her book Daring Greatly, because she said

680
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: she got this idea of shame and vulnerability from rereading

681
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: a passage in Theodore Roosevelt speech Citizenship in a republic.

682
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: The passage is it's not the critic who counts, not

683
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: the man who points out how the strong man stumbles

684
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.

685
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: The credit belongs to the man who is actually in

686
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat

687
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,719
Speaker 1: and blood, who strives valiantly, who at best knows the

688
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 1: triumph of high achievement, and who, at worst, if he fails,

689
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: at least fails well daring greatly. And he gave that

690
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,800
Speaker 1: speech naked. Most people don't realize that, and mar with

691
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 1: dust and sweat and blood. He was referring to a

692
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: naked fight in that passage. Yeah, so there you go

693
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: a little insight into the links between nudity and shame,

694
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,399
Speaker 1: nudity and strength, nudity and pair. Uh. Certainly think about

695
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,879
Speaker 1: that as you watch some of the films we mentioned here,

696
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: or any of the other films out there that have

697
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: scenes that feature male and or female nudity and scenes

698
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 1: of ror or suspense. What role is the nudity playing,

699
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: How are they how are they tweaking the message of

700
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 1: the film by using that nudity, or are they just

701
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: using it gratuitously? Yeah, let us know. And I have

702
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: to say, us doing the podcast nude, it's not as

703
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: weird as I thought it was. Me No, what do

704
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,200
Speaker 1: you know? Yeah, our producer he's fine with it too.

705
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 1: So yeah, well there, Yeah it worked out. Now would

706
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: you do would you go through a haunted house naked? Though?

707
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: I would not? Yeah? You. I mean, first of all,

708
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: it takes a lot to get me into a haunted house,

709
00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 1: So to ask me to to drop trout that would

710
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: be sort of problematic. Yeah, I guess I would. I

711
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 1: would be up for it if it were if it

712
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: were a good haunted house and not just like some

713
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: sort of a gimmicky thing, because there were there have been.

714
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: There have been some haunted houses that have come through

715
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: or popped up in the Atlanta area that have featured

716
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: nudity on the part of the performers. And it just

717
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: sounds a little yeah, like I don't really want anything again.

718
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 1: I just I'm so pragmatically towards the liability thing. You know,

719
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 1: stuff hanging out, you know, you don't have much light

720
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: going through, Something's going to happen to someone's parts. Well,

721
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: I feel the same way when my son is running

722
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: around naked, like my thought is he's going to fall

723
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 1: and skin his winger on the concrete, and I and

724
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 1: I just like, let's let's get some pants on him

725
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: just so when he falls that he's not gonna hurt

726
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 1: his wir You're good dad. Alright, guys, let us know,

727
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 1: would you go through Haunted House naked? Yes? And scenes

728
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: from films, comics, literature that have featured nude fights that

729
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: were really that it actually worked and actually had had

730
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: some sort of effect on you as a viewer a reader.

731
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: Let us know about those as well. You can find

732
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 1: us in all the normal places, of course. Our mothership

733
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,359
Speaker 1: is Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's where

734
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: everything floats to the surface. But you can also find

735
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: us on Facebook and tumbler. We're stuff to Blow your

736
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: Mind on both of those and on Twitter our handle

737
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 1: is blow the Mind and you can always drop us

738
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: a line at below the Mind at discovery dot com

739
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Because

740
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 1: it how stuff works. Dot Com