Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.
Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade
Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.
Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.
Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means
Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,
Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Joining us now my friend
Speaker 2: Jeremy Corbel, friend of the show. He's the host of
Speaker 2: the Weaponized podcast and independent journalist who's constantly educating us
Speaker 2: on the UFO topics.
Speaker 3: Great to see you again, sir, Thank you.
Speaker 4: Great to see you both.
Speaker 2: So, Jeremy, you have just released some stunning new footage
Speaker 2: that you have obtained. Why don't you set up a
Speaker 2: little bit about this new revelation before we play some
Speaker 2: of the video from your podcast breaking it out?
Speaker 4: Sure, Yeah, this is an open investigation. We're doing something
Speaker 4: different this time. We're crowdsourcing actually to military, trying to
Speaker 4: get more information, more data. But here here's the basics.
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty one, I got a tip from a
Speaker 4: couple bases actually that there was an event, but that's
Speaker 4: all that I got, and all of a sudden, I
Speaker 4: started I was like, how am I gonna get to
Speaker 4: the bottom? Miss started calling around. I found people on
Speaker 4: the ground, over fifty eyewitnesses at one of the biggest
Speaker 4: military installations on planet Earth. It's called twenty nine Palms
Speaker 4: Military Base, Camp Wilson. Specifically, these marines they said to me,
Speaker 4: they reported to me that they saw a craft, a
Speaker 4: triangle shaped craft, and I was like, get all the footage,
Speaker 4: go air drop, get it from everybody. So within thirty
Speaker 4: six hours, I've got witness testimony. They're telling me what's
Speaker 4: going on, and a whole bunch of videos and photos.
Speaker 4: The videos, I was like, there's gotta be flares. It's
Speaker 4: like black night, you see lights in the sky. But
Speaker 4: then I got a low light photo from an iPhone
Speaker 4: because they were switching from video to photo, video to photo,
Speaker 4: so multiple angles. And when I saw this image, I'm like,
Speaker 4: there might be meat on this phone. You can see
Speaker 4: the outline of a craft. And so if the report
Speaker 4: is true, if what all these marines are telling me,
Speaker 4: I thought I had to dig in. So that was
Speaker 4: like almost two years ago. Man, did I dig in
Speaker 4: try to get every source I could, and here we
Speaker 4: are today where I kind of got to the end
Speaker 4: of that I need more witnesses. There was a huge
Speaker 4: response from the base. Of course, there was a training exercise.
Speaker 4: There's always a training exercise going on there. It's a
Speaker 4: training facility. However, this was completely out of the ordinary.
Speaker 4: So I dug in, got information, and man, this crowdsourcing
Speaker 4: thing is working. Just within the last twenty four hours,
Speaker 4: I am bombarded with individuals that were there with new photos,
Speaker 4: new images. So this is going to be an updating story.
Speaker 3: But wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 5: So let's take a look.
Speaker 1: We actually have you got multiple videos and images, but
Speaker 1: we have one of those that we can show folks
Speaker 1: that looks as you describe it. I think there's five
Speaker 1: lights that you can see here that are in sort
Speaker 1: of a triangle formation. This to me was actually the
Speaker 1: most stunning. But I think we have video as well,
Speaker 1: guys that we can play.
Speaker 3: Let's take a look at it.
Speaker 4: If you look in the picture, you can see like
Speaker 4: a black trying your shape. Why are these not flares.
Speaker 6: Because they stayed their first solid ten minutes just in
Speaker 6: the same spot.
Speaker 4: And flares don't sit in one spot for ten minutes. No,
Speaker 4: they definitely they fall, So you personally know that these
Speaker 4: were not flares. Do you believe this was a craft?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I would have to believe show with the picture I
Speaker 4: took with the black trying your shape underneath the lights.
Speaker 4: It's definitely not any type of like flare, illumination rounds
Speaker 4: or anything. I didn't need to budge in, but I
Speaker 4: worked with ar Hillary and we shoot illumination rounds out
Speaker 4: of our already guns into the air to loom infantry guys.
Speaker 7: And this was nothing compared to what that is like.
Speaker 6: This was something none of us had ever seen before.
Speaker 4: It was completely different colored.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more of what
Speaker 1: we're seeing there because it seems like it's sort of
Speaker 1: hovering in one spot, but maybe making a little bit
Speaker 1: of movement. What can you glean from both the videos
Speaker 1: and what eyewitnesses are telling you?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so what's been reported to me is this thing
Speaker 4: sat there between ten and twenty five minutes, absolutely motionless,
Speaker 4: not descending, not acting like normal flares. And these are experts,
Speaker 4: you know you heard that artillery man they shoot flares.
Speaker 4: I talked to a bunch of helo pilots, So that
Speaker 4: duration is what's really interesting. Now I have footage if
Speaker 4: I link it together, that spans six minutes, but I
Speaker 4: know there's footage from the beginning that it came out,
Speaker 4: and again it's between ten and twenty five minutes. So
Speaker 4: they're baffled, their perplexed, and remember most of them, a
Speaker 4: lot of them could see an actual body of a craft. Luckily,
Speaker 4: they shot up what they call illumination rounds because because
Speaker 4: at first I'm like, that's got to be flares. Well,
Speaker 4: they shoot up these illumination rounds, which are flares that
Speaker 4: slowly descend to illuminate the body of the craft. And
Speaker 4: as it was getting close to that body, the thing just,
Speaker 4: i mean, in their own words, vanished. And I said,
Speaker 4: what do you mean, did the lights go out? And
Speaker 4: they're like, no, the shape of what we saw also,
Speaker 4: it just it was gone. So at that point I
Speaker 4: was like super interested, and that's when I dug in
Speaker 4: and tried to get as much as I could of
Speaker 4: the reporting.
Speaker 2: One of the things that bothers me, Jeremy, is that,
Speaker 2: as you said, you've kicked this the open source, but
Speaker 2: that I actually think it's very courageous. But as of course,
Speaker 2: invites the critics and they're like, oh, well, it was
Speaker 2: obviously a training exercise.
Speaker 3: It was just flares, Like, how can you pep with this?
Speaker 2: It's as if you had not considered that in two
Speaker 2: years reporting that not specifically asked in the podcast, are
Speaker 2: you sure this wasn't a flare?
Speaker 3: How do you know it wasn't a flair?
Speaker 2: And these guys are like, I literally do this for
Speaker 2: a living. I see them all the time. This is
Speaker 2: not a flair. I was there, I witnessed the event,
Speaker 2: and I'm telling you that this was completely different. So
Speaker 2: in terms of you reference the open source outside of
Speaker 2: the what I think is at this point it's it's obvious.
Speaker 2: It's like whenever you're questioning the pilots themselves involved in
Speaker 2: the incidence, It's like, okay, if you were really think
Speaker 2: you know better than.
Speaker 3: The pilot, then that we're not really having a discussion.
Speaker 2: What are some of the things that you have gleaned
Speaker 2: so far from the open source kicking this to a
Speaker 2: crowdsourcing investigation that view is legitimate that can answer more
Speaker 2: questions about this incident.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, first of all, when I say open source,
Speaker 4: I'm not talking about people behind their keyboards. I'm talking
Speaker 4: about direct eyewitnesses that were there that we're part of it.
Speaker 4: If we can solve this case, if it is prosaic.
Speaker 4: If I get a pilot that said I dropped five
Speaker 4: flares and people misunderstood that, I'm going to report that.
Speaker 4: But you know what's interesting is that when this occurred,
Speaker 4: you just have this abundance of information. As you saw,
Speaker 4: it was within thirty six hours, and you hear me saying,
Speaker 4: you know, this has got to be flares, and they're
Speaker 4: rebuting that. So I can't I dismiss all the eyewitness
Speaker 4: reports because that is evidence and I need to dig
Speaker 4: into that. Now, look, if this ends up being prosaic
Speaker 4: or something, that's the dirty job of investigating UFOs. We
Speaker 4: have to figure it out. But without having that conversation,
Speaker 4: it'll never happen. And you got to talk to people
Speaker 4: that were there, that are experts that actually saw it.
Speaker 4: That's how this case is going to get solved. So
Speaker 4: when I'm looking at all these UFO cases, some of
Speaker 4: them I know for sure, and I have more data.
Speaker 4: I have radar, I have thermal, I don't have all
Speaker 4: of that for this case. So I, like you, am interested.
Speaker 4: We're just trying to solve this case, and this is
Speaker 4: the best way I thought to do that.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit more about that, Jeremy,
Speaker 1: because I'm sure you get tons of tips all the time.
Speaker 1: How do you go through the process of sorting through
Speaker 1: what is legitimate, what has some sort of mundane explanation.
Speaker 1: What is the process that you go through, because I'm
Speaker 1: sure there are people who are watching who are like,
Speaker 1: all right, but this is this guy wholebeat like he's
Speaker 1: really into this, he's looking for it to be something
Speaker 1: weird and unexplainable. So take us through what your process
Speaker 1: is to rule out some of the tips that you receive.
Speaker 4: Thank you for that question, because you know ninety nine
Speaker 4: percent of my emails every day is like, that's Starlink,
Speaker 4: that's Venus. You know, that's people don't understand that I'm
Speaker 4: skeptical about. There's probably more than they are, right, of course,
Speaker 4: it's interesting. I'd love for a good case. But the
Speaker 4: thing is is that when I get information, people say, well,
Speaker 4: why didn't you release this too, you know, almost two
Speaker 4: years ago when it came Because I don't just take
Speaker 4: something frivolously throw it up onto the internet. And say, hey,
Speaker 4: check it out. What I do is I take my time.
Speaker 4: I get to know the people. I make sure their
Speaker 4: stories don't change over time. I ask them to call
Speaker 4: their friends to go collect more data, more information. I
Speaker 4: vet their d D two fourteens if they're out of
Speaker 4: the military. If they're in the military, I have people
Speaker 4: I can call to confirm their position. I get their
Speaker 4: fitness reports. I make sure people are who they say
Speaker 4: they are and that they don't have some agenda to
Speaker 4: trip me up or to get me to put something
Speaker 4: out that is faked. So I take my time. My
Speaker 4: cases take years. The first word people hear from me
Speaker 4: if they end up getting through the barriers and we're
Speaker 4: on the phone is you got to have patience with me.
Speaker 4: I'm on cosmic time. This could take years for me
Speaker 4: to report on it. So that's what I do, Crystal,
Speaker 4: is just really take my time. And if I have
Speaker 4: something like this that we got to get to the
Speaker 4: bottom up and I can't do it on my own,
Speaker 4: then I reach out and ask for more information.
Speaker 3: I love that, and Jeremy.
Speaker 2: One thing is one of the reasons why people like
Speaker 2: you are so important is it's one of the only
Speaker 2: ways we actually get the truth about what's going on
Speaker 2: on the inside. We covered the recent testimony that was
Speaker 2: happening before Congress, and the government and the supposed officials
Speaker 2: that are charged with transparency don't appear to have any
Speaker 2: interest in transparency. Do you want to speak a little
Speaker 2: bit about that after that recent hearing?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do. It's so funny every time George Napp
Speaker 4: and I have pain and release, you know, formally classified
Speaker 4: but inherently unclassified videos and information. You see these hearings
Speaker 4: where they take things that look similar and then they
Speaker 4: try to show a resolved one. It's almost surreal, Sagar.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure you know what it's like to be
Speaker 4: in my brain in those moments, but I'm watching this.
Speaker 4: The transparency level is so low. Just think about it.
Speaker 4: Arrow has had over two dozen people come and tell
Speaker 4: them where the hardware is. I know that is a
Speaker 4: fact because these people came to me first. I know
Speaker 4: that they're going through these classified projects and to hear
Speaker 4: nothing about that in the hearings, it was very discouraging
Speaker 4: to the people that worked on these exploitation programs. Know
Speaker 4: the program names, know where the hardware is at.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 4: I have hope that that's going to come out. But
Speaker 4: I will tell you this, and this is really exciting.
Speaker 4: I am directly involved with making sure that the public
Speaker 4: gets to hear directly from these individuals in open hearings.
Speaker 1: Am.
Speaker 4: I am absolutely one hundred percent working on that behind
Speaker 4: the scenes with people in Congress in Senate. It's going
Speaker 4: to be really interesting if we can achieve this goal
Speaker 4: of having this out of the classified forum and into
Speaker 4: the public setting. And I am highly, highly optimistic and
Speaker 4: encouraged that that is going to happen. I can't put
Speaker 4: a date on it, but I can tell you I've
Speaker 4: talked with all of these people and it is in
Speaker 4: process and people are pumped to basically get this information
Speaker 4: into the public record.
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent, my friend. Well, we need you more than ever.
Speaker 2: We appreciate you joining us, sir, Thank.
Speaker 4: You, thank you for covering this. Both of you.
Speaker 2: Always fun whenever the lamestream fake news New York Times
Speaker 2: catches up with what's going over here on breaking points.
Speaker 2: It's not even that particularly substantive, but it is a
Speaker 2: pet project of mine which I usually keep to Twitter
Speaker 2: and Instagram, and that is the way that our politicians dress.
Speaker 2: So let's go ahead and put this up there on
Speaker 2: the screen. I was personally outraged at this meeting of
Speaker 2: the minds in which three out of the four congressional
Speaker 2: leaders all wore dress sneakers in the Oval office. Hakeem
Speaker 2: Jeffreys was the worst, wearing a straight up white souled,
Speaker 2: genuine sneaker with also ill colored socks.
Speaker 3: Yeah with his hideous.
Speaker 2: Mitch McConnell you can't see it as well, he's wearing
Speaker 2: a black shoes, which is what would be called for
Speaker 2: with the outfit that he's wearing, but it also includes
Speaker 2: a sneaker sole which has holes in its almost like
Speaker 2: a Nike Air type soul.
Speaker 3: Hideous.
Speaker 2: Also, Kevin McCarthy was wearing a dark navy suit, and
Speaker 2: the problem is is he wore light brown shoes also
Speaker 2: with a white sneaker sole. So the only person who's
Speaker 2: appropriately dressed in this photo is Chuck Schumer in terms
Speaker 2: of Congression leaders. And look a lot of common criticism here,
Speaker 2: but she's appropriately dressed. She he's wearing dress heels. President
Speaker 2: Biden is also wearing black dress shoes. So the big
Speaker 2: debate was do dress sneakers.
Speaker 3: Belong in the Oval Office? Now?
Speaker 2: I do not think dress sneakers belong anywhere as long
Speaker 2: as you're wearing a suit. It's just really the it's
Speaker 2: two mismatches of what you're doing. But they actually quoted
Speaker 2: me in this because I was outraged about the Ted Lasso. Guys,
Speaker 2: let's go to put this up there on the screen
Speaker 2: where I tweeted several weeks ago. Call me old fashioned,
Speaker 2: but no man should set foot in the office without
Speaker 2: dress shoes, especially not sneakers, and said, I said, four guys,
Speaker 2: no ties, three sneakers in the oval. This country is
Speaker 2: going to hell. What I was referencing is the ted
Speaker 2: Alasso photo. Can we put that up there please so
Speaker 2: that people can see it? And look, I don't watch
Speaker 2: ted Lasso, so I don't know whose characters are, but
Speaker 2: I know Jason sadeka is is what you can see
Speaker 2: is Jason is wearing nikes. Two others are also wearing sneakers,
Speaker 2: straight up sneakers.
Speaker 3: None of them are wearing ties. Now one gentleman is.
Speaker 2: Wearing black dress shoes, which is great, but he's not
Speaker 2: wearing a tie. And I just think it's crazy that
Speaker 2: the only person who is appropriately dressed in this photo,
Speaker 2: who is visiting as a guest is the woman, Like,
Speaker 2: why are women apparently the ones who are abiding by
Speaker 2: proper dress norms and standards every time they're coming to
Speaker 2: the Oval.
Speaker 3: Look at President Biden and First Lady Jill. They look great.
Speaker 2: They're wearing exactly what you should be wearing whenever you're there.
Speaker 2: And this comes back to just like A, it comes
Speaker 2: back to what actually looks good and B it's like
Speaker 2: it's about respect, Like you're in. I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: people shouldn't wear casual clothes.
Speaker 3: People always say.
Speaker 2: That, like, oh, are you saying like construction workers should work. No,
Speaker 2: when you're on construction job, then wear construction clothes whenever
Speaker 2: you go out to eat. Yeah, maybe don't look like
Speaker 2: a bum. I don't think it's so much to ask
Speaker 2: you should care about how you look. There's a ton
Speaker 2: of evidence actually that caring about how you look actually
Speaker 2: is very good for your self esteem, for your health overall.
Speaker 2: So that's one empirical case as to make for it.
Speaker 2: But what do you make of this general controversy?
Speaker 5: Can we put the ted lasso one back up?
Speaker 1: Because I got a questioned on this one. The guys
Speaker 1: that aren't wearing the suit, yeah, and have the sneakers
Speaker 1: if they weren't in the Oval office.
Speaker 5: Do you object to the looks?
Speaker 3: So, I mean, here's the issue.
Speaker 2: I just think that that's very First of all, Jason's
Speaker 2: dedecas is rich and he's good looking. He's the one
Speaker 2: he's the ted Lasso guy on the far left in
Speaker 2: the blue sweaters to Jill.
Speaker 3: He's the one who's ted Lasso closest to Joe Biden.
Speaker 2: He is wearing what would be described as like that's
Speaker 2: not quite business casual, that's more like San Francisco cool.
Speaker 2: Now here's the thing he's pulling it off. I will
Speaker 2: say that I think he looks okay, or he looks good.
Speaker 2: We'll say he looks that said, that's not that hard
Speaker 2: to do. That's not that easy to do. Most people
Speaker 2: who are emulating that in a business setting look like shit.
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna be honest. So that's part of why.
Speaker 5: What about the dude next, the guy next one?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's not as well composed.
Speaker 2: I think it is an outfit as Jason Judacus is,
Speaker 2: but I mean it looks fine.
Speaker 1: And then the one on the end that has like
Speaker 1: the Argyle sock situation.
Speaker 2: So he's got this is why it's a mess. He's
Speaker 2: got an argyle sock. But I can tell that that's
Speaker 2: an unstructured either linen suit or a very lightweight cotton suit,
Speaker 2: which is why he chose to go with the casual
Speaker 2: dress sneakers. The problem with the dress sneakers there and
Speaker 2: the suit is then he's wearing like formalish dress socks,
Speaker 2: so it's totally mismatched and the shoes look awful.
Speaker 3: Part of the other.
Speaker 2: Reason is that you really should never wear that type
Speaker 2: of suit to a sort of semi formal occasion. That
Speaker 2: is a type of suit that you should wear to
Speaker 2: like a wedding, Like an outdoor wedding, you can wear
Speaker 2: a fun tie, maybe you don't even wear socks or
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 3: You could mix and match it up.
Speaker 2: Now, the other guy who's wearing that that looks to
Speaker 2: me like a European clubbing outfit. That is one of
Speaker 2: those that is classic German euro going out.
Speaker 5: The pants are like kind.
Speaker 2: Of he's got very tight pants, wearing all black in
Speaker 2: terms of the silhouette. The black shoes also, like wearing
Speaker 2: dress shoes in a casual setting is a classic euro move.
Speaker 2: And now, as I said, the female who is in
Speaker 2: the show. She looks great. I think she looks fantastic.
Speaker 2: He's wearing a nice dress, her hair appropriate. She's wearing
Speaker 2: nice and dressed heels. That's how you should wear whenever
Speaker 2: you're gonna go visit the open.
Speaker 1: Okay, so here is my only commentary I will offer
Speaker 1: on this topic that I don't care all that much about,
Speaker 1: but I will say that there seems to be some
Speaker 1: inherent sexism in double standards in the way that the
Speaker 1: men are allowed to dress and the way that the
Speaker 1: women are.
Speaker 5: Expected to dress.
Speaker 1: In both of these photos, the women in every instance
Speaker 1: are dressed formally and wearing formal heels, which, by the way,
Speaker 1: this is part of what irritates me. Like men's dress
Speaker 1: shoes are a million times more comfortable the women's heels,
Speaker 1: which can be like outright painful, like the ones that
Speaker 1: I can see in this picture.
Speaker 5: You can't even like, no one can walk.
Speaker 1: A long distance in those. They're very painful and uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: So she has to step up her game than you
Speaker 1: guys do. I would prefer, you know, maybe there's a
Speaker 1: more lacked standard all the way around, because I don't
Speaker 1: really care that much, but it should at least.
Speaker 5: Be evenly applied. That's my plea for equality.
Speaker 2: And here's the problem, though, Let's go put this this
Speaker 2: is what leads to bummery on Capitol Hill, and put
Speaker 2: this out there on the screen.
Speaker 3: There's now a congressional sneaker Cracus.
Speaker 2: They say, the Congressional sneaker Crocus unequivocally supports Speaker McCarthy
Speaker 2: and Leader Jeffrey's freedom to wear dress sneakers in the
Speaker 2: Oval office, while Debt's you know whatever. And here's the
Speaker 2: issue again that I have with that. You know, at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it's only the men who
Speaker 2: are taking advantage of this over in the name of comfort.
Speaker 2: As you said, dress shoes, Sure they're not great. Guess what,
Speaker 2: Though you're in Congress, your only job is to represent others.
Speaker 2: A big part of that is how you look. I
Speaker 2: wish that it wasn't that way, but it is.
Speaker 3: Guess what.
Speaker 2: That's how elected politics and public life. That's what it means.
Speaker 2: You know, I could technically do this show in a
Speaker 2: T shirt.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't just do it because I like it. I
Speaker 2: do it out of respect for everybody who watches this show.
Speaker 2: If you are going to take the time out of
Speaker 2: your day to watch what we have to say. Then
Speaker 2: I will do my absolute best effort. It's like a lawyer,
Speaker 2: do you want your lawyer to show up looking like
Speaker 2: a bum in court.
Speaker 3: I've heard from several lawyers about this.
Speaker 2: They're like, when we have defendants on trial, we always
Speaker 2: tell them, We're like, hey, listen, whether you like it
Speaker 2: or not, you need to dress up.
Speaker 3: That's just how the world is.
Speaker 2: That's something that you can say that you're have a
Speaker 2: problem with society or whatever, but you're not going to
Speaker 2: change it. In terms of our leaders, they are trying
Speaker 2: to put comfort over everything else. And that is something
Speaker 2: which really pisses me off, because you know, these people,
Speaker 2: they're making all this money on stock market. They barely
Speaker 2: work and they literally come to Washington.
Speaker 3: Three days a week.
Speaker 2: They don't do anything, and you can't even wear a
Speaker 2: suit for three days, Like we're asking so much of you.
Speaker 2: I saw Joe Manchin walking around in a Lululemon quarter
Speaker 2: zip and I'm like, dd.
Speaker 3: You say us this already.
Speaker 2: I'm like, get out of here, get out that dude.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're done.
Speaker 1: I want to provide you guys will be surprised by
Speaker 1: this but I think that Mitch McConnell actually should get
Speaker 1: a little bit of an exception for the outfit that
Speaker 1: he was wearing, which to me read is like he
Speaker 1: was doing his best to keep up appearances. But he's
Speaker 1: an old man and he needs some sneakers that like,
Speaker 1: because he did the Black Soul, he needs some you know,
Speaker 1: something that's going to allow him to at least like get.
Speaker 2: Around if you're so how old that you need like
Speaker 2: corrective shoes.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's eighty years old.
Speaker 2: He's in ill health, so maybe we retired dude, you know,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know why we're supposed to give you
Speaker 2: a pass for that, Like, it's not nobody asked you
Speaker 2: to stick around so.
Speaker 5: Anyway, literally no one did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. Call me ages if you want. Sorry.
Speaker 1: So we got a new poll in the Democratic primary.
Speaker 1: Always interesting when media outlets actually decide to pull the
Speaker 1: contenders who are in the race versus all the like fantasy.
Speaker 1: They still will do these poles that are like what
Speaker 1: about Kamala Harris, what about Michelle Obaum And it's like
Speaker 1: those people are not running. You have people who are
Speaker 1: actually running, so how are they doing the rice? Let's
Speaker 1: go and put this up on the screen. This is
Speaker 1: from Change Poles. They find Joe Biden still with a
Speaker 1: commanding lead at sixty five percent. However, both of his
Speaker 1: challengers in this particular poll are in double digits. You've
Speaker 1: got Mary and Williamson and RFK Junior tied at eleven percent.
Speaker 1: This was taken from four twenty eight to five to two.
Speaker 1: So you know, whatever you think of those two candidates,
Speaker 1: you'll have the media like frantically declaring they're not serious,
Speaker 1: they're not serious, they're not serious. Meanwhile, they're doing better
Speaker 1: against Biden than every candidate in the Republican side against
Speaker 1: Trump save for DeSantis. You don't have all the same like,
Speaker 1: oh Tim Scott's not serious. Oh, Nikki Haley's not serious.
Speaker 1: Oh Mike Penn's not serious. It's not up to you
Speaker 1: guys to determine who's serious or not.
Speaker 5: It's up to the voters.
Speaker 1: And also, judging by previous standards of who would qualify
Speaker 1: for the debate stage, candidates in double digits would overwhelmingly qualify.
Speaker 5: It's not even close call for debate stage.
Speaker 1: But you know, there was another poll Emily that was
Speaker 1: even perhaps more interesting to me, which is this Harvard
Speaker 1: Harris poll, which we talked about a couple times in
Speaker 1: the show, which had a lot of really interesting data.
Speaker 1: They asked the question of voters, do you think Joe
Speaker 1: Biden is going to win the Democratic primary?
Speaker 5: Only fifty percent said yes.
Speaker 8: It was fifty to fifty Democratic voters.
Speaker 5: This I think this was all voters, oh ball voters.
Speaker 8: Okay, that's little.
Speaker 1: Kind of astonishing because you know, again, you have this
Speaker 1: overwhelming narrative that he doesn't even have a challenger, like
Speaker 1: they barely even acknowledge Bobby or Maryanne. And yet voters
Speaker 1: are saying, like, I'm looking at this guy, and let
Speaker 1: alone the general election. I don't even know he's going
Speaker 1: to make it through the Democratic primary. So I thought
Speaker 1: that was kind of stunning.
Speaker 9: Yeah, there's another finding from the poll that they asked,
Speaker 9: is Joe Biden mentally fit to serve as President of
Speaker 9: the United States?
Speaker 8: Or do you have doubts about his fitness for office?
Speaker 9: Which is an interesting question because technically both of those
Speaker 9: things could be true at the same time.
Speaker 8: You think he's probably fit, but I have doubts about it.
Speaker 9: Well, the results are fifty seven percent of people have
Speaker 9: doubts about his fitness for office. That includes a quarter
Speaker 9: of Democrats. In the poll, twenty four percent of Democrats
Speaker 9: said that eighty three percent of Republicans said that they
Speaker 9: have doubts about his fitness. And now, get this, here's
Speaker 9: the real problem for Joe Biden. Sixty five percent of
Speaker 9: independence answered that I have doubts about his fitness.
Speaker 8: Thirty five percent said he is mentally fit.
Speaker 9: And I think that question actually goes hand in hand
Speaker 9: with the one that you were talking about. They asked
Speaker 9: in terms of whether he's going to be the nominee.
Speaker 8: People just see that he's.
Speaker 9: Frail, and he is obviously frail, and I think people wonder,
Speaker 9: you know, potentially, what could happen Donald Trump. By the way,
Speaker 9: no spring Chicken also fairly old. Yeah, And so I
Speaker 9: think these these questions are front and center of everyone's mind.
Speaker 9: Like when I think about Tim Scott's campaign, they're saying, like, literally,
Speaker 9: we have no idea what's going to happen a year
Speaker 9: from now, we have no idea what's going to transpire.
Speaker 8: So we're just going to kind of wait in the wings,
Speaker 8: see what happens.
Speaker 1: And will be the best be in position if something changes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, what's interesting to me is they ask the
Speaker 1: same question on the Republican side, do you think Donald
Speaker 1: Trump is going to win or lose the Republican nomination?
Speaker 5: They actually had he had a little.
Speaker 1: Bit more confidence that he was going to win the
Speaker 1: Republican nomination than Biden had that he was going to
Speaker 1: win the Democratic nomination.
Speaker 5: It's pretty close.
Speaker 1: So fifty two percent of voters thought that Trump would
Speaker 1: win the nomination versus forty eight percent.
Speaker 5: But compare that to the media coverage.
Speaker 1: You know, if you were listening to the media, there
Speaker 1: isn't even a Democratic primary going on, Like Joe Biden
Speaker 1: is being anointed. It's happening period, end of story. Voter
Speaker 1: is clearly not so sure. On the other side, you know,
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of discussion about Trump's weakness and
Speaker 1: you know, how he's really vulnerable and how DeSantis has
Speaker 1: a real shot.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: I think the media has sort of turned on that recently,
Speaker 1: just over some stymbols and over.
Speaker 5: Some weakness in the poll.
Speaker 1: But you definitely think there's more of a race going
Speaker 1: on on the Republican side, and that's actually not how
Speaker 1: voters are seeing things. I think you're one hundred percent
Speaker 1: correct that it does come down to voters just looking
Speaker 1: at Biden and on a basic human level being like,
Speaker 1: I don't know if this guy can go through another
Speaker 1: four years, surely they're going to come up with some
Speaker 1: kind of alternative.
Speaker 8: Let alone another campaign cycle.
Speaker 1: Right, But it also really demonstrates why Democrats are so desperate.
Speaker 1: DNC democrats elected Democratic elites are so desperate to keep
Speaker 1: the public from even knowing that they have choices, to
Speaker 1: keep Biden off of a campaign stage or a debate
Speaker 1: stage with those choices, because they know that people really
Speaker 1: are looking for alternatives and open to alternatives, and they
Speaker 1: just their best bet is just to pretend like those
Speaker 1: alternatives don't actually exist.
Speaker 9: They are not confident in Joe Biden. I think for
Speaker 9: good reasons when you look at sixty five percent of
Speaker 9: Independence saying that they're not sure about his fitness for office.
Speaker 9: That's why they don't want Joe Biden on the debate stage.
Speaker 9: But honestly, it could backfire on them and be totally
Speaker 9: counterproductive in the same way that it backfired on them
Speaker 9: in twenty sixteen, because it gives RFK Junior, gives Marianne
Speaker 9: more ammunition to say this is an actual conspiracy and
Speaker 9: the part of the DNC to keep voters from having options.
Speaker 8: And that's it.
Speaker 9: We saw all of the leaks come out, we know
Speaker 9: that's exactly what happened, and that pisses voters off. It
Speaker 9: will Bernie laid the groundwork for people to understand that
Speaker 9: this is a real narrative, that this is rooted in truth,
Speaker 9: and that is powerful when you see it happening again
Speaker 9: and again and again and your alternative is not you know,
Speaker 9: Hillary Clinton, all the flaws that Hillary Clinton has, She's
Speaker 9: not senile in the same way that Joe Biden is.
Speaker 9: And that's going to be a huge problem for the
Speaker 9: DNC because when people are you know, you already have
Speaker 9: double digits for Marianne and RFK Junior.
Speaker 8: That's crazy.
Speaker 9: Yeah, that's bad for the DNC's ability to actually control.
Speaker 1: The narrative when every article is like, they're not serious,
Speaker 1: they're not to the extent they mentioned them at all.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it's I think it's pretty interesting.
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty wild. And it's also why even
Speaker 1: though do I have any confidence the DNC is going
Speaker 1: to actually bend in scheduled debates or that Biden would
Speaker 1: subject to himself to no, because they are so fearful
Speaker 1: of any sort of exchange, any sort of acknowledgment that
Speaker 1: there is real competition there. But I still think it's
Speaker 1: really important to press the case to educate the public
Speaker 1: and the Democratic primary base that number one, this party
Speaker 1: that claims to be all oh democracy is so sacred,
Speaker 1: et cetera, you know, not living up to their word
Speaker 1: number one and number two, to just you know, illustrate
Speaker 1: for them that there are alternatives, that they're being shut out,
Speaker 1: and that you don't have to go in the direction
Speaker 1: of another four years of hoping that the actuarial tables
Speaker 1: are wrong.
Speaker 9: So I just pulled up a a NBC article from
Speaker 9: June twenty third of twenty fifteen that says, it's the
Speaker 9: headline Bernie's long odds versus Hillary NBC WSJA, Wall Street
Speaker 9: Journal poll Bernie was playing at fifteen percent. Hillary Clinton
Speaker 9: was at seventy five percent.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 9: And so again that was more of a binary choice
Speaker 9: because now you have probably RFK Junior and Marian Williamson
Speaker 9: splitting votes. But holy smokes, like that's fifteen percent for
Speaker 9: Bernie standers. When you combine Marion RFK Junior, you're already
Speaker 9: way higher than that.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so this is bad news.
Speaker 1: And it's another I think eleven percent that said don't know.
Speaker 6: All right. I'm Maximilian Alvarez. I'm the editor in chief
Speaker 6: of the Real News Network in the host of the
Speaker 6: podcast Working People, and this is the art of class
Speaker 6: war on breaking points. Massive worker strikes continue to rock Europe,
Speaker 6: but you would hardly know it if you live here
Speaker 6: in North America and you get your news exclusively from
Speaker 6: corporate media. Facing a crushing cost of living crisis exacerbated
Speaker 6: by corporate price gouging, monetary inflation, and compounding costs from
Speaker 6: the ongoing war in Ukraine, working people across industries have
Speaker 6: been resorting to industrial action i e. Strikes to fight
Speaker 6: against further job losses, pay cuts, and a general decline
Speaker 6: in living and working standards for working class people across
Speaker 6: the board, from air traffic controllers and airport workers in Germany,
Speaker 6: Spain and Italy to healthcare workers, educators, amazon workers and
Speaker 6: civil servants in the United Kingdom. From teachers and students
Speaker 6: protesting in Hungary, to general strikes and Mayday demonstrations in France,
Speaker 6: Greece and Turkey, paralyzing major cities like Paris, Athens and Istanbul.
Speaker 6: The winter of worker discontent shows no signs of stopping
Speaker 6: in the spring or summer. The top down assault on
Speaker 6: working people is taking many forms from French President Emmanuel
Speaker 6: Macron's deeply unpopular plan to raise retirement ages and further
Speaker 6: weaken the country's beloved pension system, changes that he has
Speaker 6: opted to force into reality by controversially and undemocratically invoking
Speaker 6: constitutional special powers to override Parliament, to the French police's
Speaker 6: brutal crackdown on strikers, to the Tory government in the
Speaker 6: United Kingdom drawing out and throwing a wrench into negotiations
Speaker 6: in the National Rail dispute involving the National Union of Rail,
Speaker 6: Maritime and Transport Workers or the RMT, and on top
Speaker 6: of that, responding to the massive wave of strikes in
Speaker 6: the UK by ramming through a a draconian anti labor
Speaker 6: law that will force striking workers to cross their own
Speaker 6: picket lines. We are recording this installment of the art
Speaker 6: of class war on Monday May twenty second, and as
Speaker 6: we speak, R and T members around the UK are
Speaker 6: holding rallies to protest the tori's anti strike law and
Speaker 6: to defend workers sacred and necessary right to strike again.
Speaker 6: If you've been watching corporate media here in North America,
Speaker 6: chances are you'll only be vaguely aware of this historic
Speaker 6: wave of strikes. And if you want to know more
Speaker 6: about them, and if you want to hear directly from
Speaker 6: workers themselves, then you should go check out the many
Speaker 6: video podcasts and text reports we publish at the Real
Speaker 6: News Network in the last year, and you should definitely
Speaker 6: revisit my previous segments on Breaking Points from March and January,
Speaker 6: in which I spoke with British and French rail workers
Speaker 6: about the strikes their respective countries. Today, we're going to
Speaker 6: give y'all a critical update on those strikes because frankly,
Speaker 6: a lot has happened since our last segment and there
Speaker 6: are some big strike dates coming up in early June.
Speaker 6: In France, trade unions have announced a nationwide day of
Speaker 6: protest set to take place on June sixth, ahead of
Speaker 6: a meeting by lawmakers on June eighth to discuss a
Speaker 6: draft bill proposed by the opposition Leo Party to cancel
Speaker 6: the retirement age reform in the UK. As Gwintopem recently
Speaker 6: reported for The Guardian, quote the RMT has announced another
Speaker 6: rail strike on Friday, the second of June, the day
Speaker 6: before the Men's FA Cup final, warning that the government
Speaker 6: quote cannot wish the dispute away end quote. About twenty
Speaker 6: thousand RMT members working for the fourteen major rail companies
Speaker 6: in England will strike for twenty four hours in the
Speaker 6: law running dispute over pay and conditions. The stoppage falls
Speaker 6: between two days of strikes already called by the Drivers
Speaker 6: Union as left on the thirty first of May and
Speaker 6: the third of June, compounding the disruption for passengers before
Speaker 6: the final at Wembley between Manchester City and Manchester United
Speaker 6: on the Saturday. The union said that while there had
Speaker 6: been contact with the train operator's body, the Rail Delivery
Speaker 6: Group or the RDG since the last strike was called,
Speaker 6: there had been no new proposals. The package rejected in
Speaker 6: April had not significantly improved since the offer was rejected
Speaker 6: in February, a headline increase of nine percent over two years,
Speaker 6: but with conditions attached and only a short term guarantee
Speaker 6: against job cuts.
Speaker 3: End quote.
Speaker 6: To get an on the ground update on the ongoing
Speaker 6: class struggle playing out across France. In the UK, I'm
Speaker 6: honored to be joined today one once again by Mateu Boulredat,
Speaker 6: calling in from France. Mattheu is a train operator and
Speaker 6: General secretary of the Versailles branch of the CGT Union
Speaker 6: or the General Confederation of Labor. We're also joined by
Speaker 6: Clayton Clive calling in from England. Clayton is a train
Speaker 6: conductor and he is also currently serving as the Branch
Speaker 6: secretary for the R and T Manchester South Branch. Mattheu Clayton,
Speaker 6: thank you both so much for joining us today on
Speaker 6: Breaking Points. I know you are both incredibly busy and
Speaker 6: you have been fighting your asses off for months on end,
Speaker 6: so I promise not to keep you too long. You know,
Speaker 6: we last checked in with Mattheu and Gaz Jackson from
Speaker 6: the R and T for another Breaking Points interview that
Speaker 6: we published a little over a month ago, so I
Speaker 6: want to catch people up on what's been happening since then.
Speaker 6: So why don't we start by telling people from your
Speaker 6: vantage points as members of and fighters for the working
Speaker 6: class what has been happening in your countries over the
Speaker 6: past month, and then in the next round we'll talk
Speaker 6: about the upcoming strikes in June. So Matt two, you're
Speaker 6: up first.
Speaker 10: Brother, Hi Max, And of course I'm busy, but I'm
Speaker 10: never too busy for you, you know that. So thank
Speaker 10: you very much again to give me the flaw and hello,
Speaker 10: good evening to all brothers and sisters across the ocean
Speaker 10: in Baltimore and all the USA. So about about this
Speaker 10: topic since the last time we meet, I think it
Speaker 10: was in the in the end of the end of March,
Speaker 10: and so we was just in the in the hand
Speaker 10: of our unlimited strike. As you remember, we do one
Speaker 10: month on unlimited strike in in different terms, a strategic
Speaker 10: sector of the economy, okay, the refinery, the power, the
Speaker 10: power workers, the railway workers, underground, the collect garbage. So
Speaker 10: at this point we we success to make afraid the
Speaker 10: majority of the member of Parliament, so they don't vote
Speaker 10: the law. But you know they use a bypass, a
Speaker 10: trick of the constitution to bypass the parliament and and
Speaker 10: pass the law without a vote. So after that there
Speaker 10: is uh the young people that come uh very loudly
Speaker 10: in the movement every night they do the wild demonstration
Speaker 10: they call they call that, while I call that free
Speaker 10: demonstration on the street, not just in Paris, even in
Speaker 10: a small sea is and they're fight against the police.
Speaker 10: Now the situation is more quiet, but the president said, uh,
Speaker 10: we have to move on, you know, we have to
Speaker 10: move on and talk about other things. And we we say,
Speaker 10: the working class movement said we will not moving on.
Speaker 10: We will continue to fight, to resist and to claim
Speaker 10: our legitimate claims, legitimate entication and legitimate agenda. And so
Speaker 10: we do a huge may Day in Paris. It was
Speaker 10: I think the biggest may Day I never saw, with
Speaker 10: a lot of camera from more than sixty countries comes
Speaker 10: in Paris. So it was very important to show the
Speaker 10: international support to our people and the working class in France.
Speaker 10: Support of course against the law, against the anti pension law,
Speaker 10: but the suppose against the anti democratic.
Speaker 7: Policy of the President Macron.
Speaker 10: For us, now it's become very clear that our fight
Speaker 10: is not not just a self defense social self defense.
Speaker 10: It's become a democratic self defense against authoritarism of the
Speaker 10: of the government. And of course we plan a new
Speaker 10: day of strike the sixth of June to mention it
Speaker 10: because as you mentioned, there will be a small group
Speaker 10: of the opposition actually, and that's a good job, is
Speaker 10: a righteous group at in the balance. But they want
Speaker 10: to finish this movement. They want to stop this and
Speaker 10: and stop the strikes of the demonstration because it's very
Speaker 10: very bad for the profits, is very very bad for
Speaker 10: the bosses. So they try to to make a new
Speaker 10: vote with a new law too to counsel the first
Speaker 10: law we take place without vote, So you can see
Speaker 10: it's totally crazy the situation here in the parliament. So
Speaker 10: because the organist that the eight we decide to organize
Speaker 10: a new day of general strike and demonstration in all
Speaker 10: over the country the sixth of June, and in my
Speaker 10: company it will be a huge, huge day of strike,
Speaker 10: and we invite delegation for six country just in my branch, Portugal,
Speaker 10: Greece and Italy to demonstrate with us.
Speaker 7: So it will be a huge day.
Speaker 10: And of course, and I will conclude by that, I'm
Speaker 10: sorry if if I.
Speaker 7: Was too long.
Speaker 10: Of course, during the summer, even we don't win at
Speaker 10: the eighth of June during the honor and we're not
Speaker 10: taking place of general strike there because it's the holiday cine.
Speaker 10: We know French people are very lazy. We take one
Speaker 10: month of holiday. Sorry about that, but I think you
Speaker 10: said most of people take another job during the holidays.
Speaker 7: But it's a different situation.
Speaker 6: Holiday holiday, what's that?
Speaker 10: But uh, it will be still a mobilization, but with
Speaker 10: with different forms. And we announced that for example, we
Speaker 10: will fight to councel a lot of sports events, uh
Speaker 10: and a lot of cultural events. And now from now
Speaker 10: we we start to threat this government. If you continue
Speaker 10: to do that, there will be no Olympic Games in Paris.
Speaker 4: It will we will.
Speaker 10: Collapse all the cities for the Olympics Games. Event is
Speaker 10: not lackameilion, it's a self defense policy.
Speaker 6: Hell yeah, well I want to I want to circle
Speaker 6: back and talk about the demonstration's planned for the six
Speaker 6: and what people can do to support y'all. But I
Speaker 6: guess before we get there, Clayton, why don't we bring
Speaker 6: you in here? And yeah, like we said last time
Speaker 6: on Breaking Points, I got to chat with Matt Twu
Speaker 6: and Gaz Jackson. We know, the great Gaz Jackson over
Speaker 6: at the r m T in Yorkshire and Lincolnshire and
Speaker 6: that was at the end of March. So why don't
Speaker 6: you give viewers and listeners an update on what's been
Speaker 6: going on specifically with the r m T in the
Speaker 6: National Rail dispute in the UK, but also I guess
Speaker 6: you know, if you want to give folks any other
Speaker 6: updates on the other strikes that we've been seeing, like
Speaker 6: the NHS strike and you know, the first Amazon workers
Speaker 6: strike in the UK, what's been going on over there
Speaker 6: over the past month.
Speaker 11: Hello, thanks for having me again, and solidarity to our
Speaker 11: friends and comrades in France and around the world. What
Speaker 11: Matthew was just saying there about summer is exactly what
Speaker 11: I want a piece of. Maybe we could do with
Speaker 11: Matthew and our National Executive Committee at the R and T,
Speaker 11: because what we need is escalation. In my opinion, where
Speaker 11: we were when you last spoke with Gaz, I believe
Speaker 11: that the offer was being considered. That offer was the
Speaker 11: five percent as you've mentioned, with another five percent tied
Speaker 11: to terms and conditions modernization as they call it. That
Speaker 11: went to a consultation amongst all the branches in our union,
Speaker 11: and the overwhelming majority of branches said to reject that
Speaker 11: offer outright without a referendum. I think our branch actually
Speaker 11: sent a resolution to that effect before we were even
Speaker 11: told to consult our members. That's how strongly people in
Speaker 11: Manchester felt that that offer was unacceptable. Obviously it's unacceptable
Speaker 11: for workers to have to pay for their own pay
Speaker 11: rise that meets the rise in inflation. Nobody should have to,
Speaker 11: you know, see their terms and conditions cut purely to
Speaker 11: be able to afford to live. And if we'd accepted
Speaker 11: something like that, it sets a dangerous precedent. You know,
Speaker 11: the government will accept workers elsewhere to do it as well,
Speaker 11: expect workers elsewhere to do that as well. And you're
Speaker 11: you know, selling your soul for a little bit, but
Speaker 11: in the long term, your job is worse worse off,
Speaker 11: and those attacks would keep coming. So luckily we've we've
Speaker 11: rejected that offer outright without a referendum, and now we've
Speaker 11: a day of action coming up on the on the
Speaker 11: let me check we have a day of action coming up.
Speaker 11: I think it's the second of June. I know it's
Speaker 11: it's slot slotted in with as left coming up strike action.
Speaker 11: We've only called one day because at the time we
Speaker 11: were waiting for the renewal of our mandate because in
Speaker 11: the UK we have to balot every six months. So
Speaker 11: now what I'm expecting is an escalation of action over
Speaker 11: the summer. Because we've taken twenty days. This will be
Speaker 11: our twentieth day of strike action in eleven months. So
Speaker 11: to me, we've not really hit hard. You know, we've
Speaker 11: not used the economic power that we have. My personal
Speaker 11: view is last summer we should have hit hard because
Speaker 11: the longer it drags on, the more weary members will get.
Speaker 11: And as you see, if you put poor offers out
Speaker 11: to the membership at time and again, eventually they'll accept
Speaker 11: that and we'll have all sold ourselves short. So what
Speaker 11: I want from our union and from our national executive
Speaker 11: is an escalation of action because it's going to reach
Speaker 11: a point where we've got no choice. Sooner or later,
Speaker 11: we're either going to be worn down or we're going
Speaker 11: to have to escalate. You know, you're going to have
Speaker 11: to throw all your cards in at some point and
Speaker 11: show what we've got. So far, we've not done that.
Speaker 11: And regardless of the action being small and you know,
Speaker 11: subtle action, it's not been it's not been long periods
Speaker 11: of sustained action. Regardless of that, regardless of however we
Speaker 11: take strike action, we've got the the anti strike bill,
Speaker 11: a minimum service bill now hot on our heels as well.
Speaker 11: You mentioned what else is going on in June. Obviously,
Speaker 11: as left there their offer. They only represent trade and drivers.
Speaker 11: Our empty represents all grades in transport industries. Has left
Speaker 11: had an offer a worse offer than ours, and there's
Speaker 11: two was tied to cut to safety, if you can
Speaker 11: believe it, especially when you know what's going on over
Speaker 11: in the US there on your railroads there with safety issues.
Speaker 11: The government wants has left to accept for a pay rise,
Speaker 11: a reduction in driver training and for drivers to basically
Speaker 11: be trained in a way that they get to choose
Speaker 11: how competent they are. You know, there isn't a set
Speaker 11: standard currently, there's a set standard of say you've got
Speaker 11: to do one hundred hours over such a route, but
Speaker 11: they want to change it. So it's up to individual drivers.
Speaker 11: So if the managers are pressuring you we need you driving,
Speaker 11: you could say I'm fine after five hours, and you
Speaker 11: know you're not. You're not to the same level. And
Speaker 11: likewise we've seen escalations and strikes in this strike way
Speaker 11: from Amazon and the junior doctors have announced more dates
Speaker 11: after rejecting a pay rise, and ultimately I think the
Speaker 11: tide is sort of turning in the viewpoint that workers
Speaker 11: can get more and deserve more, and there is there
Speaker 11: is no excuse. You know, we've we've hammered it home
Speaker 11: time and again. The rm T about passenger numbers. The
Speaker 11: government consistently says, oh, passengers aren't coming back, so we
Speaker 11: need reform, and we hear this over and over again.
Speaker 11: And we've just recently got the Department for Transports own
Speaker 11: numbers for April, and I believe it's ninety eight point
Speaker 11: six percent passenger numbers on the railway for April. And
Speaker 11: that's whilst strikes have been going on, and that's whilst
Speaker 11: companies are still running reduced timetables, and some companies can't
Speaker 11: even manage to run that reduced timetable to an acceptable level.
Speaker 11: They're still canceling so much so that we're seeing our
Speaker 11: franchise based privatized system collapse. Again. We've seen another train
Speaker 11: operating company have to be taken over by the government
Speaker 11: owned operator of the Last Resort, which I think is
Speaker 11: a fantastic name. So it's clear for everyone to see
Speaker 11: that the rail industry is going to easily exceed passenger
Speaker 11: numbers that were set before the pandemic. I believed the
Speaker 11: year of running up to the pandemic we had the
Speaker 11: second highest recorded passenger levels ever and we're be in
Speaker 11: on some days and near enough matches throughout April that
Speaker 11: passenger level again on a poor service. So it's a
Speaker 11: time for investment. It's a time to give the workers
Speaker 11: their fair share. And hopefully, obviously our one day of
Speaker 11: action isn't going to change much, So hopefully we get
Speaker 11: a nice string of dates announced that will bring the
Speaker 11: government to the table and we'll give on negotiate as
Speaker 11: a shoe to beat the government with, as it were.
Speaker 6: All right, So, as we've already said, we've got some
Speaker 6: big disruptions planned for early June in both France and
Speaker 6: the UK. Now, like I said, we are recording this
Speaker 6: segment on the week of May twenty second, so it's
Speaker 6: always possible that circumstances can change by the time this
Speaker 6: segment gets published. But let's assume that things will continue
Speaker 6: as planned for now. So Matthew Clayton tell us a
Speaker 6: little more about what's going to be happening in early June.
Speaker 6: Who's going to be involved, how big do you expect
Speaker 6: these strikes to be, what do you hope the outcome
Speaker 6: of these strikes will be, and what can people around
Speaker 6: the world do to stand in solidarity with their fellow
Speaker 6: workers in France in the uk Ah.
Speaker 7: That's a very good question, you know. I'm I'm a
Speaker 7: train driver. You mentioned it.
Speaker 10: I'm the general secretary of course of my union. But
Speaker 10: I must i'm too. I'm a trainer too, because it's
Speaker 10: very important, the training of union.
Speaker 7: It is young union.
Speaker 10: It's is very important, you know. And usually I said
Speaker 10: a small joke during the our training camp. I never
Speaker 10: talk about the beliefs of people. You know, gods are
Speaker 10: not you know, hell or heaven. But I'm fortunate and
Speaker 10: I could definitely say that I don't believe.
Speaker 7: In Santa Claus.
Speaker 10: So uh, and I think we are not fight kids old.
Speaker 4: We we we.
Speaker 10: Don't believe in some clause we have to believe in us.
Speaker 10: We have to believe to believe in ourselves. We have
Speaker 10: to believe in the power of the working class. There
Speaker 10: is a power in the union. So we have to fight.
Speaker 10: We have to fight, is our only solution. You know,
Speaker 10: we have not the billion of Europe.
Speaker 7: And and dollars.
Speaker 10: We are not billionaires, but we are billions of workers.
Speaker 10: And that's I think it's the way out, the key
Speaker 10: to to to to the way out. So the sixth
Speaker 10: of June there is now now uh call of national
Speaker 10: strike of rivway worker, of energy, worker of raffinery and
Speaker 10: bought all the parts in France buses underground and schools,
Speaker 10: teachers and people who public servants, in city halls, at court,
Speaker 10: et cetera, et cetera, in prisons two, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 7: So there is a huge call.
Speaker 10: But there is a call in private sector too, for example,
Speaker 10: in the commerce services you mentioned the command from Amazon,
Speaker 10: it is the same in you eat or deliverools, you know,
Speaker 10: this small new job, you know, the start up nation.
Speaker 10: Like President Macron like to say, so, it's very important
Speaker 10: to coagulate all this anger, all and but all this
Speaker 10: hope to we we are the party of the anger
Speaker 10: and the party of the hope. We have to turn
Speaker 10: the anger to a fight to win our legitimate claims.
Speaker 10: So the interesting point is today now, because we not
Speaker 10: just wait for the sixth of June and the day
Speaker 10: after and the day after, we continue to organize now.
Speaker 10: For example, now President Macron is ministers or the deputy
Speaker 10: of his parliament minority. You know, the world in France
Speaker 10: is a parliament majority, that of course is a parliament minority.
Speaker 7: Because they don't don't take their chance by vote.
Speaker 10: So every day, every day they try to go to
Speaker 10: a place a factory, visit to school, et cetera, et cetera,
Speaker 10: in all the country to try to move on, you know,
Speaker 10: and talk about other things education, the great UH industry,
Speaker 10: et cetera, et cetera. There is every day UH demonstration,
Speaker 10: small demonstration, maybe hundreds people, maybe thousands people, but that
Speaker 10: there is always a demonstration with people UH and claim
Speaker 10: and scream and et cetera, et cetera, make music and
Speaker 10: UH say no to the this abuse, no to this
Speaker 10: democratic anti democratic injury to all and UH for example,
Speaker 10: and that that's a true story.
Speaker 7: You can you can check it on online.
Speaker 10: Because they are afraid about our cameras, bothers and sisters
Speaker 10: from the energy from the energy.
Speaker 7: Trade Union of cuttings. UH.
Speaker 10: The lights in different rooms, meeting rooms. They are always
Speaker 10: the staff of the president. They have always in any move,
Speaker 10: always a big battery, you know, a big helping battery,
Speaker 10: emergency battery to.
Speaker 7: Have a power. Can you imagine that the president of
Speaker 7: the sixth.
Speaker 10: Powerful economy in the world could not make a move
Speaker 10: in his own country without an emergency battery. That's so
Speaker 10: fucking ridiculous, you know. And that's the situation now. So
Speaker 10: it's a big Gary, Yeah, you know, it's.
Speaker 7: Of course for now.
Speaker 10: We don't win the first move of the war, but
Speaker 10: it's a huge class war. There is several battles, okay,
Speaker 10: and we have to prove to him he could not
Speaker 10: restore the civil peace in the this country if he
Speaker 10: don't take off his big We have to prove that
Speaker 10: during months and months and months at the plan.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 6: It baffles me the way the powerful people like my
Speaker 6: cron talk about working class struggle right like he's saying, oh,
Speaker 6: we got to move on and talk about other stuff,
Speaker 6: when it's like, well, are you know, we haven't solved
Speaker 6: any of the issues that we were protesting about before,
Speaker 6: so why are we going to move on? And if
Speaker 6: we move on, then we're just going to keep sliding
Speaker 6: further and further down the ladder. We're going to be
Speaker 6: working longer, we're going to be retiring later. The cost
Speaker 6: of living crisis is still a crisis. And so just
Speaker 6: because he's ready to move on, uh, doesn't mean working
Speaker 6: people are. And Clayton, I wanted to bring you in
Speaker 6: here and ask if you could fill us in as
Speaker 6: well about the strikes that are coming up in early June,
Speaker 6: because I don't know, it felt like there was potentially
Speaker 6: a resolution on the horizon in the National rail dispute.
Speaker 6: That's at least what we've been hearing from, you know,
Speaker 6: British media. And surely Prime Minister Rishi Sunak also wants
Speaker 6: to you know, talk about something else right and move
Speaker 6: past all these strikes. But you know, he's not doing
Speaker 6: anything to address the issues that y'all have been striking over.
Speaker 6: And not only that he is rammed through He and
Speaker 6: the Tories have rammed through this anti strike law that
Speaker 6: would force striking workers in the UK to guarantee a
Speaker 6: minimum level of service during strikes, i e. If someone
Speaker 6: if the ARMT goes on strike, the government apparently gets
Speaker 6: to say how many workers have to cross that picket
Speaker 6: line to maintain a certain level of service so that
Speaker 6: service isn't disrupted during the strike, even though disrupting service
Speaker 6: is the whole point of a strike. So anyway, I'm
Speaker 6: getting I'm getting pissed off myself. Why don't you tell
Speaker 6: viewers and listeners I guess things stand now, and yeah,
Speaker 6: what is what they should be looking out for? With
Speaker 6: these new round of strikes in early June.
Speaker 11: Yes, So the second of June we have our day
Speaker 11: of strike action, which is every grade at every train
Speaker 11: operating company being out on strike, and that sandwich between
Speaker 11: two days of drivers taking strike action. For US, it's
Speaker 11: about twenty thousand members that will be on strike on
Speaker 11: the second of June. And like I've said earlier, I'm
Speaker 11: hoping we see an escalation of action because, as I've said,
Speaker 11: the anti strike bill, the minimum serviceability you've mentioned, is
Speaker 11: now on its sort of final final leg of the
Speaker 11: whatever it does when it bats around between unelected House
Speaker 11: of Lords and then our marginally elected MPs, it gets
Speaker 11: back back and forwards a bit, and then they do
Speaker 11: some amendments and you sort of lose interest. At the
Speaker 11: first hearing, I paid attention, and now I'm like, I
Speaker 11: guess it's coming. You know, it's inevitable. The TUC talk
Speaker 11: about challenging it in the courts, but we have to
Speaker 11: remember that the courts work in the interest of the state,
Speaker 11: and this is the state's law. So I can't see
Speaker 11: the court coming and being my night in shining armor
Speaker 11: and saving me from this bill. And likewise, we can't
Speaker 11: wait for Keir Starmer's Labor Party, because although he said
Speaker 11: he will repeal this bill, I just saw the other
Speaker 11: day that he said he thinks that he should let
Speaker 11: the new Policing Bill bed in, which is terrifying. That's
Speaker 11: a bill that basically outlaws protest. If you're a bit
Speaker 11: too noisy, the police can come and arrest you. So
Speaker 11: we're on a dangerous path. We're on a scary road
Speaker 11: with this bill as well, which is you know, I've
Speaker 11: always found my union to be the most democratic part
Speaker 11: of my life. You know, they say we live in
Speaker 11: a democracy. I don't get to elect my manager. I
Speaker 11: get to elect an MP for my area. But my
Speaker 11: MP is always going to be a Labor MP. They've
Speaker 11: got a majority of twenty odd thousands, So if I
Speaker 11: want to vote for the Green Party, it doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 11: I'm not you know, we're not going to see a
Speaker 11: massive swing for the Green Party. The most democratic part
Speaker 11: of my life is my union. Luckily, I've one of
Speaker 11: the most democratic trade unions in the country. And the
Speaker 11: idea that this strike bill is anything other than to
Speaker 11: protect the state and to protect capital and private profit,
Speaker 11: you know, that's all is. They say it's going to
Speaker 11: be for the benefit of everyday people. Someone actually said
Speaker 11: to me on a most recent strike that he was
Speaker 11: being persecuted by our strike, and I said, I don't
Speaker 11: think that's the case. I think you'll find our Lord
Speaker 11: and Savior Jesus Christ was persecuted. You know, you're not
Speaker 11: being persecuted by not being able to get the train today.
Speaker 11: And you can see the language they use in sometimes
Speaker 11: it works, but I think for the vast majority of
Speaker 11: people in the UK, they've always voted in support in
Speaker 11: polls and stuff of the strike action people are taking,
Speaker 11: and we've generally had that support on the street and
Speaker 11: on the ground, and I don't think that will change this.
Speaker 11: The leaders of unions, our General Secretary mcclinch and Matt
Speaker 11: Rack from the Fiber Grades union, have said that we're
Speaker 11: not going to comply with these laws and that we're
Speaker 11: going to have to resist them, which is brilliant, but
Speaker 11: the cynic in me does say very loudly in my head,
Speaker 11: we've been complying with anti trade union laws for thirty years.
Speaker 11: We've been complying with Factor's laws all this time, and
Speaker 11: it's been our union policy to not comply with those
Speaker 11: lots but we comply. So the talk is good, but
Speaker 11: we need to see the action, you know, we need
Speaker 11: to see workers being lifted up and given that empowerment
Speaker 11: to not comply, because there will be great amount of
Speaker 11: pressure and workers to comply, and there will be a
Speaker 11: great amount of pressure on union leaders to not be
Speaker 11: explicit when they're asking for non compliance, because of course,
Speaker 11: if a union leader says, don't comply with those laws,
Speaker 11: you're all out on strike. That union's assets could be
Speaker 11: frozen and that could be that the end of that union.
Speaker 11: But for me, I don't really care, because unions will
Speaker 11: come and go. But workers and organized workers have always existed.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 11: They were organizing when they were building the pyramids. They
Speaker 11: were organizing when Cromwell was doing his thing. They were
Speaker 11: organizing in factories in the eighteen hundreds. They were organizing
Speaker 11: when the US National Guard was shooting at them. We'll
Speaker 11: keep on organizing and we'll find new ways to do it.
Speaker 11: And I think, like mc clinchers said, the anti trade
Speaker 11: union laws, these these anti struck the Minimum Service Bill,
Speaker 11: as it's called nicely nice name for it, is only
Speaker 11: going to open a bigger can of worms for them
Speaker 11: because when people don't comply, there's nothing they can do.
Speaker 11: If if the government says to me, I'm one of
Speaker 11: x amount of percent that has to go into work,
Speaker 11: if we all don't go into work, they can't sack
Speaker 11: us at all. And if the nurses don't go into work,
Speaker 11: they can't sack them all. So you know, we've just
Speaker 11: got to stand up for ourselves. That's the ultimate thing.
Speaker 11: And I think our stereotype is I think that we're
Speaker 11: quite a compliant people, British people generally, or English people
Speaker 11: at least. So let's hope that we cannot be compliant
Speaker 11: for a change. And I think part of that, although
Speaker 11: I'm sort of a person that thinks we don't need leaders,
Speaker 11: there is a vast swave of union membership that does
Speaker 11: need leaders, and it does need people to look up
Speaker 11: to them. It needs you know, big Bill Haywoods, and
Speaker 11: it needs Bob Crow's and it needs people like that,
Speaker 11: and it needs mclinch and it needs our current leaders
Speaker 11: now to lead that charge because they are doing it
Speaker 11: at the moment. They are saying, you know, talking the talk,
Speaker 11: but we need them to keep that up. Likewise, we
Speaker 11: need our action to escalate, because otherwise this dispute is
Speaker 11: going to go and run on beyond a year and
Speaker 11: we've got nothing to show for it. And we started
Speaker 11: very positively, you know, like Gaz said in the previous
Speaker 11: one that this was like dropping a stone in a
Speaker 11: pond and all the ripples coming out. For those ripples
Speaker 11: will fade away if there aren't victories. You know, if
Speaker 11: there aren't victories, we'll have nothing to show for the
Speaker 11: strike wave and that will be the end of it
Speaker 11: for maybe another generation. You won't see any in any
Speaker 11: mobilization like this again. So what we need and what
Speaker 11: I hope for is escalation, and we need to be
Speaker 11: ready for those anti strike laws. We need to be
Speaker 11: ready for that minimum service bill, and we all need
Speaker 11: to stand around, stand up and not go into work
Speaker 11: when that bill comes because, as Ted Grant said, I
Speaker 11: believe it was Ted Grant, some people have been appropriating
Speaker 11: this quote for a while. But not a single wheel turns,
Speaker 11: not a lot pupe comes on you, not a letter
Speaker 11: is delivered without the kind permission of the working class.
Speaker 11: And we need to remember that, and we need to
Speaker 11: remember that we have the power, not the government.
Speaker 6: Okay, So again, I know it's late. I know you
Speaker 6: guys are tired. I promise this is the last question.
Speaker 6: And it's a little bit of a cheeky question, as
Speaker 6: my British friends would say, but frankly, I just could
Speaker 6: not help myself. So on May twentieth, as breaking points
Speaker 6: viewers can see on their screen, the Telegraph posted this
Speaker 6: picture on social media of UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak
Speaker 6: and French President Emanuel Macron just generally looking creepy and
Speaker 6: weird together on the second day of the G seven
Speaker 6: Leader summit in Hiroshima, Japan. Now, the Telegraph asked followers
Speaker 6: to caption the photo and I am absolutely dying to
Speaker 6: know how you guys would capture in this photo. Uh,
Speaker 6: you know, what do you think Sunak and Macron are
Speaker 6: talking about here? And what would you say to Macron
Speaker 6: and Sunak right now if you had the chance to
Speaker 6: talk to them directly.
Speaker 7: That's a tricky one.
Speaker 10: So of course I don't know what they're talking about,
Speaker 10: but I can imagine. I can imagine because these people
Speaker 10: when when they meet each other in Davos, for example,
Speaker 10: in Switzerland, are in India for the G seven meeting
Speaker 10: in hiroshimas sorry for the G seven meeting, there these people.
Speaker 7: There are very few people, and the.
Speaker 10: Preton to command their lives, the preton to be the
Speaker 10: new gods of this earth, the preton to put a
Speaker 10: new religion, maybe the religion of the money, the religion
Speaker 10: of the war.
Speaker 7: You you you asked me.
Speaker 10: What I imagine, what I imagine they're talking about. I
Speaker 10: would I wish imagine They're talking about peace, They're talking
Speaker 10: about social progress.
Speaker 7: They're talking about.
Speaker 10: How to to satisfy the needs of the people of
Speaker 10: not just of the people of my country, of Indian country,
Speaker 10: of US country, but of the all the world.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 10: So, but I know they don't do that. I know
Speaker 10: they don't do that. I know they talk about how
Speaker 10: to satisfy the greed instinct of the few people of
Speaker 10: the world, of the leadership of the world, of the
Speaker 10: big bosses of the world, and big capitalists, and and
Speaker 10: two satisfies not the needs but these greedy feelings. Then
Speaker 10: they need to to troy, to destroy our combativity, to
Speaker 10: destroy our movements, because we claim just the satisfaction of
Speaker 10: our needs. That that's the difference between between us and them.
Speaker 10: They want to satisfy greedy feelings and we want to
Speaker 10: satisfy our needs. Just for example, in this in this
Speaker 10: seven seven, they're talking about a new big cheap with
Speaker 10: the plane war plane. You know, it's four thousand, it's
Speaker 10: four hundred thousand euros only for France for one boat
Speaker 10: in Trance, one boat four hundred thousand euros.
Speaker 7: Uh, sorry on.
Speaker 10: God on thousand billions billions sorry, million, million millions, and
Speaker 10: that they talk about the talk about. Uh, they said
Speaker 10: they need to break our pension system because we miss
Speaker 10: twelve only twelve billion Europe. So we can do the balance.
Speaker 10: We can do the mats okay with with one boat,
Speaker 10: you can pay like ten years of our pension system.
Speaker 10: That's so ridiculous, So what what they do? So sorry,
Speaker 10: I lost my humor about that.
Speaker 7: That it's we live in a very.
Speaker 10: Sad times and very tough times. As I need we
Speaker 10: need to be shoulder shoulder and shoulder together in France,
Speaker 10: in all Europe and cross the ocean together because I
Speaker 10: think they want to kill to kill us all, you know,
Speaker 10: to kill us all and destroy the planet just for
Speaker 10: satisfying that they are greedy feelings. So we have to fight.
Speaker 10: It's our only solution, of course, to the fund our self.
Speaker 10: But I have a girl, a little girl. I love
Speaker 10: her sister twenty.
Speaker 12: She she she worked very good at school, She do
Speaker 12: their home work, she does the dishes when when she
Speaker 12: has to do, she do all her duty.
Speaker 7: She's a very good girl.
Speaker 10: And now I'm not sure about this future, about our future,
Speaker 10: I'm not sure about that, even our walk. I'm a
Speaker 10: good dad, I have a good value. I'm not sure
Speaker 10: about that. That's fucking unfair.
Speaker 11: So I don't have anything smart and deep and meaningful
Speaker 11: to add, like Matthew died, Maybe I don't think so.
Speaker 11: What originally first came to mind was a bit of
Speaker 11: a cheap job, which was that macarn is probably enjoying
Speaker 11: being the tallest person in a room for a change,
Speaker 11: and I checked as well. Macaron is one seven three
Speaker 11: centimeters and Sunak is one seventy. But what also came
Speaker 11: to mind was the Discoelysium quote, which was evil child
Speaker 11: murdering billionaires still rule the world with a shit eating grin.
Speaker 11: So yeah, that's my caption. I don't know if that'd
Speaker 11: get published in the paper. And the only other thing
Speaker 11: I would add is that I probably wouldn't talk to
Speaker 11: them because I think that they're the sort of people
Speaker 11: whose mind you would never change, you know, you could,
Speaker 11: you could take them anywhere to see suffering and they
Speaker 11: wouldn't you know, they wouldn't change their minds about things.
Speaker 11: They wouldn't change their mind about about war, about funding war,
Speaker 11: They wouldn't change their mind about increasing the funding for
Speaker 11: school or education. All that really matters to them is
Speaker 11: profit and like you said, very expensive watches. If anyone
Speaker 11: can support us, or talking of money, maybe Macron can
Speaker 11: I would maybe recommend to them the Strike Fund rt SCOTT,
Speaker 11: a national dispute fund, and all that money helps helps
Speaker 11: us help our members. Some of our members in this
Speaker 11: dispute are incredibly low paid because we represent all grades.
Speaker 11: There are these rumors that we've got very exaggerated salaries,
Speaker 11: but they're not true, I can assure you. So if
Speaker 11: anyone can support our National strike Fund, that would be
Speaker 11: much appreciated. But yeah, that's about me, thank you.
Speaker 6: So that is Matthew Bullredatt, a train operator and general
Speaker 6: secretary of the Versailles branch of the CGT union, calling
Speaker 6: in from France, and Clayton Clive calling in from England.
Speaker 6: Clayton is a train conductor and he is also currently
Speaker 6: serving as the branch Secretary for the RMT Manchester South Branch,
Speaker 6: Matthieu Clayton. Thank you both so much for joining us
Speaker 6: today on Breaking Points. As always, we are sending all
Speaker 6: of our love and solidarity from across the Pond to
Speaker 6: you and to all of our brothers, our sisters and
Speaker 6: our siblings fighting the good fight. Thank you for watching
Speaker 6: this segment with Breaking Points, and be sure to subscribe
Speaker 6: to my news outlet, The Real News, with links in
Speaker 6: the show description. See you soon for the next edition
Speaker 6: of the Art of Class War. Take care of yourselves,
Speaker 6: take care of each other. Solidarity forever,