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Speaker 1: Hey, it's the Hunting Collective. Everybody, Welcome to another week.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben O'Brien and today we're joined by some wonderful folks.

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Speaker 1: The first one of those folks is Brodie Henderson. He's

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Speaker 1: a senior editor at Mediator Incorporat. And we were on

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Speaker 1: the floor of the b h A Rendezvous. They're in Boise, Idaho.

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Speaker 1: We talked about a lot of things, but mostly about

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Speaker 1: hunting ethics, some interesting things about our philosophies on hunting ethics.

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Speaker 1: We gave a seminar there, so we wanted to give

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Speaker 1: you a little rundown if you missed the seminar. And

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Speaker 1: then I talked with Jess Johnson. And Jess Johnson Um

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Speaker 1: is a conservationist. She's a leading voice for women and

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Speaker 1: hunting in the West and elsewhere. And you're gonna find

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Speaker 1: out her philosophies. And also, I'm going to admit to

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Speaker 1: not have enough women on the podcast. I've only had

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Speaker 1: like two or three, so it's an admission that I

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Speaker 1: feel strongly about. And she has some real good stuff

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Speaker 1: to say on today's show. But before we get to that,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about Yetti Cooler is this that's just

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Speaker 1: YETI now, since it's not all coolers. And speaking of

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Speaker 1: not coolers yet, he just launched the load out go box,

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Speaker 1: and you know what's We talked about go boxes and

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Speaker 1: a lot of context and outdoors, but this is basically

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Speaker 1: a hard case with a bunch of kick ass accessories.

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Speaker 1: Now it's got a caddy so you can drop your

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Speaker 1: duck calls in there. You can use it as a

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Speaker 1: fly box, your boat, keys, whatever. It's also got a

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Speaker 1: divider that slips right down in the center. It's a

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Speaker 1: place from one big compartment in this go box too,

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Speaker 1: two compartments. It's got a little gear compartment that attaches

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Speaker 1: to the top lid. They call that the pack attic.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty cool, man. I've just run around turkey hunting

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Speaker 1: and I got my calls in the top. I got

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Speaker 1: my flashlights, I got all my items that basically go

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Speaker 1: straight into my turkey pack and then all my backup

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Speaker 1: items box calls, slate calls, mouth calls, everything in the

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Speaker 1: go box in my truck in case I lose something

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Speaker 1: out in the woods. Got batteries in there for my

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Speaker 1: head lamp for everything else. Um, it's great to have

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Speaker 1: it stays in your truck. It lives in your truck

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna love it. I love it. It's the

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Speaker 1: YETI load out, Go box, go to yetti dot com.

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Speaker 1: Check it out. It's pretty cool. It comes a lot

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Speaker 1: of different cool colors. It's got the same kind of

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Speaker 1: YETI feel. It's not gonna let any dust in there.

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Speaker 1: It's not gonna let any water in there. So you

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Speaker 1: can store this in your garage, store this in your truck.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, you're just gonna like it. I like it,

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Speaker 1: so without further a dude episode, let's go. I guess

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Speaker 1: I grew up on an older road. A bat'll do

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Speaker 1: the meadal. I always did what I've told until I

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Speaker 1: found out that my brand new close a game second

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Speaker 1: hand from the rich kid's next door. And I grew

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Speaker 1: up baths like it's like what I mean, they have

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Speaker 1: a thousand things inside it. I wish I ain't seen.

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Speaker 1: And now I just wanted the real bad dream of

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Speaker 1: being a lack. I'm coming apart of the seams, but

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Speaker 1: thank you, Jack Daniel. Hey everybody, and welcome. It's another

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Speaker 1: episode of the Hunting Collective. I'm, of course Ben ober

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Speaker 1: Mentor and all the other things. And it's today is

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Speaker 1: five fourteen nineteen. That's when this will air to your

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Speaker 1: uh iTunes or wherever you're listening. And I'm sitting here

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Speaker 1: with Brody Henderson. It's up. Rody. Hello, Hello, my first

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Speaker 1: time on the Hunting Collective. Yeah, you've been on the

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Speaker 1: Meat Eat podcast. Yeah, I'm sure many a time. Now

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Speaker 1: your position at the mediators senior editors that correct, and

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Speaker 1: you I think that just means I'm the oldest dude

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Speaker 1: that works there. And we do have you know, folks

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Speaker 1: who don't know, we basically have hired about fifteen of

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Speaker 1: the same person all white bearded men from I don't

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Speaker 1: run the beard. Don't run the beard though, from the

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Speaker 1: ages of like forty all, well you look young, and

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Speaker 1: so Brodie is. Brodie is like the the o G.

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Speaker 1: He's probably been a meat eater working with Steve longer

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Speaker 1: than than most folks, maybe other than Yannis. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was honest before me, but not not good man. If

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Speaker 1: if you don't know much about Brodie, you can of

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Speaker 1: course listen to metator podcasts and finding there, but also

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Speaker 1: you go to the meat Eater dot com and find

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Speaker 1: his words there. You're on like a weekly cadence at

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Speaker 1: least now I was I was a couple of times

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Speaker 1: a week. Now it's once a week because I'm working

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Speaker 1: on another secret project with Steve. Secret project. Hashtag secret project.

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Speaker 1: That's something everybody's gonna want to wonder about. Start looking

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Speaker 1: around for clues. But you'll like it. It's coming. It'll

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Speaker 1: be a while before you see it. You'll like it

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Speaker 1: when you do. Um. So, Brodie and I are sitting

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Speaker 1: in a what you can probably here's like a soft

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Speaker 1: murmur of a room here in Boise, Idaho, and Brodie

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Speaker 1: tell him, tell him you set the scene for everybody. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're here, uh, just sitting on the outskirts of the

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Speaker 1: vendor uh display booths. There are a bunch of hunting

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Speaker 1: and fishing companies, uh applying their wares and uh a

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Speaker 1: lot of hunters and fishermen walking around checking stuff out. Yeah. Man,

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Speaker 1: getting ready for the big live podcast that we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do soon enough. Yeah, probably like the final in our

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Speaker 1: little first half of the year live podcast store of

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Speaker 1: Mediator's here in Boise, Idaho with the great members of

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Speaker 1: the b h A back cut your owners and anglers

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Speaker 1: in there. I believe eight annual rendezvous and uh, these

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Speaker 1: are my people man, are they your people too? Definitely?

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Speaker 1: Public Lands proud, baby, We're all proud. I mean the

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Speaker 1: amount of public Lands attire being warned around this room

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Speaker 1: is heartening to me. Um. And we've had it. We've

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Speaker 1: got a great We've got a great week thus far.

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Speaker 1: We just did the field of table dinner. Last night,

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Speaker 1: Danielle Pruett and I mostly Daniel Pruett served a bunch

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Speaker 1: of hungry dinner guests her first wild turkey, which I feel,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel about it. I feel

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Speaker 1: that's quite the sacrifice. Yeah, given up a couple of

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Speaker 1: turkey breasts to feed other people like that. You don't know,

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Speaker 1: that's that's from the heart. That's quite the sacrifice. Even

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Speaker 1: if even if it wasn't even it was my hundreds

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Speaker 1: of wild turkey at have a probability she gave up

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Speaker 1: her first wild turkey, but we did eat some of it.

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Speaker 1: Was delicious. Um, So shout out the old Wild and

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Speaker 1: Hole Daniel Pruett for that last night, Old old cal

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Speaker 1: four O six and I are on the board. We've

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Speaker 1: had some great board meetings. Um. So thanks to the

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Speaker 1: Board of backcounch Unders and Anglers for having us on

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Speaker 1: and and for um, the discussions we've had around this organization,

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Speaker 1: you'll you'll know that this thing, this organization is growing

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Speaker 1: like crazy. There's above thirty thousand members now. I think

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Speaker 1: when I first came on there was less than there

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Speaker 1: was like ten or twelve thousand. You guys added a

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Speaker 1: couple of new chapters just this Yeah, we added seven

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Speaker 1: new chapters. We added a chapter in the Yukon, which

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Speaker 1: is all. That is all, there's nothing. I think they

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Speaker 1: said there was like, uh, maybe forty ish people in

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Speaker 1: the chapter, and that's like one percent of the people

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Speaker 1: in the entire state something like that, So we got

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Speaker 1: a good percentage run there. But yeah, shout out to

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Speaker 1: the Yukon chapter back with genders in English for just

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Speaker 1: just being able to communicate with the lower forty eight

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Speaker 1: the way that you have. So a lot of great

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Speaker 1: stuff going on here, like we said, the Mediator podcast.

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Speaker 1: But this is not, of course an advertisement for this

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Speaker 1: event because it will be over by time you hear this.

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Speaker 1: But Brody and I will be taking part in a

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Speaker 1: seminar tomorrow about ethics of hunting and fishing, and what

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Speaker 1: better topic for a podcast than that. Have some some

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Speaker 1: deep murky waters and so I feel like, well, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna since you probably won't be there, and if you

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Speaker 1: were there, then this will just be a nice refresher

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Speaker 1: and take you through a little bit of what we

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Speaker 1: might say to tomorrow in that little room there here

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Speaker 1: in the Boise Center. And we al we've talked about

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Speaker 1: ethics a lot here. We've had Randy new Burke on,

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Speaker 1: We've had Yanni Janie Poodles, as Brodie's kids say, We've

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Speaker 1: had Janie Poodles on to talk about the ethics. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's important to define ethics. It's

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Speaker 1: important understand like what ethics are to us. And in general,

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Speaker 1: ethics are just a set of moral principles that guide action.

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Speaker 1: And that seems like a real tight definition until you

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Speaker 1: start to get into until you put more than one

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Speaker 1: people in person in the room, and it gets it

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Speaker 1: gets real deep. And so you think about ethics and

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Speaker 1: hunting and why the two things are so tied together.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the obvious one is that you're killing things,

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Speaker 1: and that that is kind of the center point of

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Speaker 1: how we think about morality, living and dying and what

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Speaker 1: and what governs that. But hunting gives you a unique

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Speaker 1: chance to exercise ethics personal ethics in a way that

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Speaker 1: not a lot of stuff does. Well. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean there's you know, how are you going to kill something?

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Speaker 1: What's the right way or the wrong way or the

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Speaker 1: acceptable way to actually end the life? You know, that's

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Speaker 1: going to raise a lot of questions. Yeah. So if

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Speaker 1: it's like what's the ethical way to shoot hoops, We're good,

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Speaker 1: Like what's the ethical way to get on a roller coaster?

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Speaker 1: We're good. Other things are more you know, we're it's

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Speaker 1: more impactful in our world. It's such a tangible impact

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Speaker 1: on our world that it requires more of us. That's

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Speaker 1: where it bleeds into the ethic thing. And moreover, like

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Speaker 1: you get you get in a situation to where hunting

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Speaker 1: not only allows you but forces you to make these

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Speaker 1: micro ethical decisions all the time. So my hope is

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Speaker 1: that everyone goes out into the woods with like an

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Speaker 1: ethical boundaries of like I'm not going to shoot this far,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do this. I'm going to think

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Speaker 1: and act in these guidelines when I'm out going hunting.

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Speaker 1: But then hunting always ends up challenging that ship. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I'm not only gonna shoot at forty yards well,

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Speaker 1: there's the biggest buck of your life standing at seventy

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Speaker 1: yards I can maybe push at this time just all

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Speaker 1: just draw my bones. See. Yeah, And so that's the

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Speaker 1: wonderful thing I think about about those things. Is there

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Speaker 1: anything you want to add to that? And I get it, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's just this uh, constantly shifting thing for

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Speaker 1: every individual. But what makes it really difficult is that

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Speaker 1: personal set of ethics is going to be different for

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Speaker 1: every individual hunter. And that doesn't make necessarily make one

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Speaker 1: hunter wrong and one hunter right. You know, it's it's

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Speaker 1: more more nuanced than that he said it. He said it, um, yeah, no, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think for us trying to Guy had a

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Speaker 1: lot of problems with the way the hunting community thinks

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Speaker 1: about ethics and has handled ethics in the past. Not

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Speaker 1: because I think this is somehow intentionally wrong, but I

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Speaker 1: just think there's some principles we've adopted that have guided

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Speaker 1: us in the wrong direction when thinking philosophically about it, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, one one thing I feel like, because we're

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Speaker 1: talking about uh, you're you're responsible for inflicting, oftentimes a

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Speaker 1: very violent death on on another creature. I think some

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Speaker 1: of these ethical discussions are almost yeah, man, like I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say it, but I almost feel like

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Speaker 1: it's pointless because I feel like some hunters are trying

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Speaker 1: to wiggle out of the fact that they're responsible for

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Speaker 1: a violent death by by saying, well, this is ethical

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Speaker 1: or this isn't. But you can't escape the fact that

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Speaker 1: one way or another, things dying and you're responsible for it.

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Speaker 1: And no matter what ethics you choose to adopt, you've

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Speaker 1: got to own up to the fact that you are

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Speaker 1: causing a death. And and there's nothing, there's no way

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Speaker 1: around it. And we should just hit that more head on,

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Speaker 1: I think. And I think over the last probably decade,

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Speaker 1: hundreds have got much much much better at that UM

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Speaker 1: and and we're getting you know, we're getting much better

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Speaker 1: by the day, by the hour, I think as we

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Speaker 1: go forward, for sure. But one thing I always want

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Speaker 1: to touch on is what what ethics are not? Right? Yeah? There,

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Speaker 1: it's not legal versus illegal, right, Some of our laws

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Speaker 1: kind of dance around the ethical question, right, some of

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Speaker 1: the laws are built to prevent like somebody from being unethical. Definitely. There.

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Speaker 1: I think there's some laws that UM are are totally

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Speaker 1: based in ethics that you know, it wouldn't make a

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Speaker 1: difference one way or the other if if you if

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Speaker 1: you did that thing and it was legal or illegal.

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Speaker 1: But we've decided that it's illegal all us because that's

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Speaker 1: because from a moral level, I'm not good. And now

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Speaker 1: a lot of that could be it's not good for

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Speaker 1: the resource, and it's unethical. It's not you know, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't follow our set of guidelines and it's not ethical.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, a lot of our laws kind of are

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Speaker 1: are intertwined with ethics. But when we have these ethical

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Speaker 1: conversations in the constructs we currently have built, we have

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Speaker 1: to say, Okay, if it's illegal, it's unethical. Automatically you're

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Speaker 1: you're out. There's no discussion. Yeah, you don't get to

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Speaker 1: have that conversation. It's totally unethical. Um, so we're not

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Speaker 1: going to talk about illegal or illegal. So if you

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Speaker 1: shoot two bucks and you have one tag, we're not

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Speaker 1: talking about an ethics situation, even if it was by mistake.

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Speaker 1: Even it was by mistake, that's illegal. Now you have

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Speaker 1: to deal with it. Maybe the ethics are how you

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Speaker 1: deal with it, but the action itself being illegal. Now,

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Speaker 1: the other thing I always like to point out is

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who think or like to

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Speaker 1: talk about ethics like it's in a a sthetics thing,

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Speaker 1: like it's not the actual intent of the action or

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Speaker 1: the morality the action, but it's how it looks to

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Speaker 1: other people. I generally disagree with that. I feel like

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Speaker 1: ethics are more of an intrinsic internal thing, unless it's

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Speaker 1: extrinsic in the way that'll be seen, so that this

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Speaker 1: kind of strike that from the ledgend. They're not. It's

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Speaker 1: not an aesthetic situation um. And so that's you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that helps ship. Those two things help shape

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Speaker 1: our perspective of how we set this up. So when

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Speaker 1: we talk about it, when we talk about in the

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Speaker 1: summer are we're gonna cover a couple of things, and

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Speaker 1: one thing is that I believe there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: things I believe strongly, and one of them is personal

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Speaker 1: ethics being the way we set our boundaries. Right, So

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Speaker 1: we think about how we see the world, our personal experiences,

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Speaker 1: what we know about the land, the animal, the resource,

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Speaker 1: what we know about conservation practices help shape our personal ethics,

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Speaker 1: which means how we go into a situation um, and

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Speaker 1: how hey guys, um. So yeah, I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: that that is people are shouting us out, so it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a lot of interrupted we're sitting in just

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Speaker 1: like a random spot where it just pulled some chairs

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Speaker 1: over to the side. Um As we have this serious

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Speaker 1: conversation about ethics. But personal ethics are are very important.

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Speaker 1: And the reason why that is is everybody's values are different,

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Speaker 1: everybody's experiences are different, everybody's set of constructs for ethics

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Speaker 1: are going to be different. There's no way to standardize them.

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Speaker 1: There is no way to tell um to really do that.

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Speaker 1: In my opinions, where a lot of arguments get started,

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Speaker 1: this is where a lot of arguments will started. And

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Speaker 1: at the same time, UM, a lot of the things

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Speaker 1: we adopt as laws are really like the standardization mechanisms

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Speaker 1: for that. And so that's where we come into the

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Speaker 1: personal ethics, Like how do you your personal ethic might

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Speaker 1: be that you've practiced your bow in a hundred yards

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Speaker 1: every day for two years. Now, it's more ethical for

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Speaker 1: you to shoot an animal at a hundred yards with

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Speaker 1: your bow than it is for somebody that practices that

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Speaker 1: twenty yards, right, So your personal ethics and standards move around,

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Speaker 1: so they in my opinion. They act as they the

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Speaker 1: general guidelines for how we all move around in the

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Speaker 1: in the hunting space, and then they help govern situational ethics,

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Speaker 1: which is, you come upon a situation, you have to

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Speaker 1: use what you know and what you've already constructed in

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Speaker 1: your mind to act in an ethical manner. So your

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Speaker 1: situational ethics and your personal ethics are kind of always intertwined,

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Speaker 1: although the personal ethics are kind of the starting point

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Speaker 1: for how you see it. You may not act on

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Speaker 1: a situation the way another person would act based on

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Speaker 1: and you may set your personal ethics and get into

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Speaker 1: a situation to decide weight. You know now that I

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Speaker 1: know I can shoot seventy five yards, but the wind

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Speaker 1: is blowing like it's this dear, this animal is skylined.

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Speaker 1: There might be other things that happened that kind of

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Speaker 1: like delete some of the things that you are decided

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Speaker 1: that or your constructs so overroad mechanism for ethics. So

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Speaker 1: that's how I see that plan. Yeah, you're good with that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that like good, uh good kind of outline

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Speaker 1: for what we're gonna be talking about. Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: we'll get into social media, like what you know, why

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Speaker 1: is this stuff matter to hunters, what's really going on? Um?

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Speaker 1: Social media being the thing where it used to be

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Speaker 1: prior to social media or ethics kind of played out

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Speaker 1: in a more communal sense, like one to one, one

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Speaker 1: to two, whatever, in a sense that somebody had to

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Speaker 1: be with you. Now you could share with the world

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Speaker 1: all your actions and then they can be judged, and

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Speaker 1: they will be and they will be judged recommenized. So

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Speaker 1: I think that's where most people in this room kind

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Speaker 1: of get a little spun up and I do, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: how can't you, I mean, it's impossible to avoid. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that's where we'll present. That is kind of the

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Speaker 1: primer for what we're gonna talk about, and then we'll

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Speaker 1: get into specific ethical contries and I'll let you start,

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Speaker 1: but like discuss, let's talk real quickly about fair chase

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Speaker 1: and like what it means, whether it's good or bad

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Speaker 1: then out affects us all. Well. I mean, obviously the

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Speaker 1: spirit of it is valuable and worthwhile, and I think

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Speaker 1: it's a good thing, um, But it's also one of

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Speaker 1: those things that when you really start thinking it's I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't. They just think fair

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Speaker 1: chase is fair chase right, they don't dig into it.

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Speaker 1: Once you start digging into it, it's actually really hard

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Speaker 1: to define it, like what it is again, like if

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Speaker 1: it's illegal, like it doesn't apply most of the time.

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Speaker 1: Fair chase is tied into these kind of personal ethical

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Speaker 1: values that that we decide how, you know, how we

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Speaker 1: how we decide how we're gonna act um. But for me,

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Speaker 1: fair chase is important. But then again, like you know,

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Speaker 1: i'll shoot a grouse out of a tree man like

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Speaker 1: I do not know I I So we were talking earlier.

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Speaker 1: We'll will debate this continually. That's why I think it

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Speaker 1: is why it makes a good podcast topic, because it

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Speaker 1: is so damn hard to suss out, Like it's just

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Speaker 1: hard to set out. So for those of you listening,

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Speaker 1: like I'm gonna, I'm gonna just here in a minute

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Speaker 1: state something that's gonna sound really hard and controversial and

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Speaker 1: and maybe somebody you've never heard, but I don't mean

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Speaker 1: it that way. What I'm what I'm saying, and I

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Speaker 1: will say, I think fair chase needs to go away,

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Speaker 1: Like I think the concept of fair chase and the

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Speaker 1: way that currently is constituted needs to go away. And

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Speaker 1: I think that for a lot of reasons, but one

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Speaker 1: of the main reasons is we have not yet and

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Speaker 1: I don't think ever really will be able to understand

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Speaker 1: what we mean by fair, fair to whom, fair to what?

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Speaker 1: The animal? Damn sure doesn't. The animal doesn't. So so

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Speaker 1: if if we eliminate there's two two people in the equation,

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Speaker 1: the hunter and the animal here, not two people to

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Speaker 1: two beings in the equation, the hunter in the animals.

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Speaker 1: So if we remove the animal from the ethical equation

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Speaker 1: because it doesn't care what you do, if you shoot

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Speaker 1: it from a tree, shoot it on the ground, if

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Speaker 1: you shoot it swimming, if you shoot it dancing, if

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Speaker 1: you shoot it on a reindeer sled, that they don't

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Speaker 1: have an opinion, at least that I've heard. But the

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Speaker 1: hunter is the one that's constructing this need for fairness.

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Speaker 1: Fairness in what way? Um, I'll give a bunch of examples.

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Speaker 1: That's really the best way to get to it. We

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Speaker 1: talked about it. Why is it more fair to shoot

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Speaker 1: with the spot and stock a black bear than it

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Speaker 1: is to have dogs chase it up the tree and

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Speaker 1: kill it. Why is that more fair? Because we feel

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Speaker 1: like we feel the innate need, the personal need to

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Speaker 1: be challenged in the pursuit of hunting. We feel, as

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Speaker 1: modern hunters, we have every ability to be unfair with

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Speaker 1: our vehicles, with our guns, with all these other things.

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Speaker 1: And so I feel there's the fairness factor has already

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Speaker 1: eliminated just for the modern sense of what we are

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Speaker 1: able to do. You know, Um, you talk about what

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Speaker 1: the Pope and Young or Bude Crack Club might say

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Speaker 1: that in the in their definition of fair, Jason, they

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Speaker 1: talked about an unfair advantage, and we were talking about earlier.

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Speaker 1: That's like the hardest unfair is the hardest thing to define.

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Speaker 1: It's hard is it's hard to find as the transverse

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Speaker 1: of that is fair. Yeah. Like the idea that uh

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Speaker 1: got put out there and then I've heard it before

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Speaker 1: is that the animal has a better chance of escaping

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Speaker 1: than being killed. But how do I know, Like on

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Speaker 1: any given day, I don't know what those odds are

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Speaker 1: gonna be. Like, that's why we're running up to that,

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Speaker 1: like a better chance of escaping. Well, yeah, that that

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Speaker 1: leaves the fence thing is the clear leaves. The high

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Speaker 1: offence is the clear loser in that equation, which I

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Speaker 1: tend to agree with in my personal Yeah, that's one

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Speaker 1: that's not that's I think that's a universal among most

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Speaker 1: of us that that's not a thing that we agree with.

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Speaker 1: But when you say unfair advantage, but then you start

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Speaker 1: listening off the things that are unfair, you're like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, crank that scope up to sixteen power. Unfair.

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Speaker 1: It's unfair that we have vehicles to drive to where

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Speaker 1: these animals live and then go and hunt them. It's

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Speaker 1: unfair that we have high powered rifles to shoot them

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Speaker 1: for far distances. It's unfair that we've built these crazy

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Speaker 1: fast compound bows. Damn share more unfair than than a

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Speaker 1: wolf or a mountain lion. And so the concept, I think,

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Speaker 1: the concept of fairness, and when we get strung up

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Speaker 1: in this, we we are losing really what we're doing, Like,

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Speaker 1: what is what is the pursuit of hunting? Really? If

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Speaker 1: it if it is what we often say it is,

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Speaker 1: which is like it's about the experience, not about the kill,

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Speaker 1: and that ship like that. If it is, then the

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Speaker 1: kill part shouldn't. If it's the kill part should be

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Speaker 1: very simple, the most clean and efficient way to kill

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Speaker 1: the animal possible, and then the experience can be ethical,

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Speaker 1: like you can you know you can do things ethically

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Speaker 1: with the landscape not to destroy it. You can do

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Speaker 1: things ethically with the resource not to kill too many.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of things you can do that involve

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Speaker 1: ethics to the point where you get to the killing

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Speaker 1: of the animal. Who gives a ship if it's on

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Speaker 1: the ground or in the air, we are the only

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Speaker 1: ones care. Yeah, And so to me, there's so much

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Speaker 1: oxy meronic like stuff build into fair chase that it

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Speaker 1: just seems like we need to start over too. To

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Speaker 1: define what it is is like almost impossible, like what's

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Speaker 1: fair for a squirrel hunter versus what's fair for uh

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Speaker 1: doll sheep hunter? You know, like every animal, every landscape,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's always going to be different, it's always

426
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: gonna be shifting. Yeah, well, there's there's there's also a

427
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: feel thing to it, like how do you feel you

428
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: kill an animal and sit down by it and reflect

429
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 1: on what just happened? How do you feel well when

430
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: you do something that you know is kind of like

431
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,960
Speaker 1: sure it was legal, but you know, maybe it took

432
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,840
Speaker 1: advantage of a situation. You know it, you know, but

433
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,199
Speaker 1: that's why, I mean, that's why when you go back

434
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 1: to the very beginning of this conversation, it's like, hey, listen,

435
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: you hunting will it's gonna break you down if you're

436
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: not strong ethically. It's going to provide all these ways

437
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 1: for you to mess it up and do things that

438
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 1: you don't agree with, where your community doesn't agree with

439
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: all the time. Every you know, oh, there's a deer

440
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: standing on the road, I shouldn't shoot it because it's

441
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: close to a road. Why the deer doesn't care? You're

442
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: out there to kill a deer? What's the point? But

443
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 1: if you don't feel because it's such a very personal experience,

444
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: if you don't feel like you got the experience you

445
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,600
Speaker 1: desired by shooting the deer on the road, don't shoot it.

446
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 1: But if you don't care and you shoot the deer

447
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 1: on the road and it's legal, I can't find I

448
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,960
Speaker 1: can't find any fault really in that. But certainly people

449
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,360
Speaker 1: are you know, going back to the social media thing

450
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: or just word of mouth whatever, like you might not care,

451
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,159
Speaker 1: but there'll be plenty of other people to do right.

452
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: And that that gets to look at the more monarchy.

453
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 1: How do you present what you're doing? But I think

454
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,200
Speaker 1: how we present can be can be shaped in a

455
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,360
Speaker 1: lot of ways of like how we discuss what we're

456
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 1: trying to get at right fair chase. I think it's

457
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: just it's a misnomer, I believe, for one. But I

458
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: also think it's a distraction from what we're really trying

459
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: to do. Um and I'm I'm not I don't. Being

460
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: fair to the animal really, to me comes in at

461
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: the point where I'm killing it more than the point

462
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 1: that I'm pursuing it and being fair to a bear,

463
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: at the point where I'm killing it and killing it

464
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: the most least away possible if I have a pack

465
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 1: of dogs and if I leave him in the truck

466
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: and I go, and I know that I can find

467
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: it faster, kill it quicker if it's up in a

468
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: tree and their dogs barking. And I'm not doing that

469
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: because somehow I feel it's unfair to the animal. I'm

470
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: wrong because it's not that the animal doesn't care. I'm

471
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: doing that because I personally don't feel fulfilled by hunting

472
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 1: that way, and so it doesn't Those things just don't

473
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: match up. Now. Granted, I like, I don't want I

474
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 1: don't think people should give the impression that we're like

475
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: trying to find a way to do things that are unfair.

476
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: It's just no, it's the concept of it, right, It's

477
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 1: it's not Listen. Yeah, I'm sure that the overreaction to

478
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: this could be and will be. Surely, let's go spotlight

479
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: some deer exactly that I'm trying to say, like, take

480
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 1: the gloves off and go do I'm not I'm very

481
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: much saying that we we will continue to wrestle with

482
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 1: this for as long as we have modern technologies and

483
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: new ways of thinking and hunting in the same bowl

484
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: of gumbo. That will continue to mess this. But we

485
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: get off track with the conversation when it starts. It

486
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 1: starts getting into fair and unfair. That kind of takes

487
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 1: us off course in a way that we can't get

488
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: back from it. Yeah, and you'll get that between ethical

489
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 1: hunters of all types, you'll start to have these arguments

490
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: over fair versus unfair, you know, trad bows versus compound bows,

491
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,920
Speaker 1: versus muzzloaders versus rifles, and on and on and on.

492
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I mean I would I definitely agree

493
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,200
Speaker 1: with that. And I think that if you join the

494
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: Pope and Young Club or the Booming a Crocker Club,

495
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: they will dictate to you if a deer is stuck

496
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: in snow or stuck in ice or in water, you

497
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: ought not to shoot it. And that gets into the

498
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: thing from a non hunter or an anti hunter. That's

499
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 1: also oxymronic in a lot of ways it is. I mean, like,

500
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 1: can you imagine ten thousand years ago some indigenous hunters

501
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: not taking advantage of those situations. Yeah, we we we

502
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: have a most of the country. And then and really

503
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: if you just if you would say people that don't

504
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: agree with hunting the majority of the time, those folks

505
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: are out there one saying that they love animals, they

506
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: want them to have rights, they're sentient being those types

507
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: of things, but at the same time criticized hunters for

508
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: what they would see is unfair practices, right practice, Like

509
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: people they they hate anything with hounds. But if you

510
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 1: would explain to them, if you really think of animal rights,

511
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna go kill something, the animal has the

512
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: right to die is quick, it's humanly possible. And if

513
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: it's twenty yards above me in a tree and I

514
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: have a rifle, it's way easier to kill it than

515
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: if it's three yards across the canyon and I've got

516
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: a bow or even a rifle in that and so

517
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 1: there's some like I think everyone is a little like

518
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: in the modern sense, messed up with this because we

519
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: have all these modern entanglements that we've never had before.

520
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: Like you said, it did. The luxury of thinking about

521
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: this the the that's my pots could be called the

522
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 1: luxury of thinking about ship with better Bryant. So that's

523
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: but that's why I think this. Everyone is thinking about it,

524
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: everyone's trying to figure it out. Everyone has different opinions.

525
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: But I, like I would like to put forth there

526
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: is this the fair chase is to me, when it

527
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 1: comes to hunting in ethics, the biggest problem that we've

528
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: got gone pr problem kind of kind of not that

529
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 1: anybody would be mad at us for having a fair

530
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: chase doctrine, but it's it's preventing us from really getting

531
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 1: to the root of what we're actually trying to do. Um,

532
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: how we're defining ourselves. Yeah, I define myself as a

533
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: hunter who loves the experience, right, and I act a

534
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: certain way during the experience of the hunt. Now to

535
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: do what makes you to do what makes the enjoy

536
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: the most right. And then when I get to the

537
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: killing of the animal, my enjoyment goes away then like

538
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: I don't get to in the killing of the animal,

539
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 1: say like I really love hunt with a bow, so

540
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a bow instead of a shotgun. I

541
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: don't feel I don't feel like I'm able to do

542
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 1: that with my own my personal ethics, because I I

543
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: know that I could be more efficient with a shotgun

544
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: than win a bow with the turkey, and so I'm

545
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: gonna be used my ethical stands all the way up,

546
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 1: like I want to get my enjoyment of the experience

547
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: before and after the kill, but during the situation where

548
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: I'm taking the animals life, I feel very strongly that

549
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: that's where turns to the animal and the animal alone.

550
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: But there's plenty of people that get the enjoyment from

551
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: aspects of what would happen using a bow. You know,

552
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: I'm sure sure, and I don't, And I again, I don't.

553
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing against hunting with a bow, no, um

554
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: at all. Really, I love hunting with the boss my

555
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 1: favorite thing to do. But I follow strictly followed the

556
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: guidelines of the seasons and most of the time allows

557
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: me to hunt with the bow, then hunt with the muslo,

558
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 1: to hunt with the rifle, rins and repeat, hunt with

559
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 1: the bow, and so I don't really have to worry

560
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:38,720
Speaker 1: about that because I know there's a system set up

561
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: that's going to allow me the opportunity to hunt with

562
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: each one of those things at the appropriate time based

563
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: on wildlife policies and carrying past season populations such as

564
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,800
Speaker 1: such as a state wildife if you just think I should, So,

565
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: I don't really have to wrestle with that most times.

566
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: But turkeys just happens to be the thing where a

567
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: lot of people wrestle with that. Oh no, I definitely

568
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: know where you're coming from with that arguing. So no,

569
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: that's we're gonna get into that tomorrow. But I think it.

570
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 1: Of course, it leaves a lot of holes for people

571
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 1: to disagree. But whatever, I like that, I enjoy I

572
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: enjoy it. That's where you're gonna get your mind changed

573
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: and learn things you know on on certain things. Yeah,

574
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 1: it'll be fun. Um, and we've got our new editor

575
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: in chief. If you heard on the last episode of

576
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 1: the podcast anything like, I will be there and then

577
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: Sam Longer and our fishing editor you've heard on this

578
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: podcast a few times as well. Um, we'll just cover

579
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: one of these like more difficult ponderings ethically, and we'll

580
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: move on to our interview segment, which the interview segment

581
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: is with Jesse Johnson, who is out of Wyoming. She's

582
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: a first Light ambassador and Lady Hunter. Now I want

583
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: to say this ethically, here's one thing for you, Brodie.

584
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: I have to admit something. I gotta laid it on you,

585
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: gotta admit something. I feel real bad about this. I

586
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: had somebody right in the other day, Andrea, I believe

587
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: it was a name. She's like, I wanted to listen

588
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 1: to your podcasts and I saw you had like fifty

589
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: some episodes and I scrolled down. I realized there wasn't

590
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: any women on there. Naughty naughty, So you're remedying that though, Yeah,

591
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: but I don't want to remedy it on purpose, to

592
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: have some like artificially artificial balance. But I will say that,

593
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 1: like in a fool, nobody has really noticed until that,

594
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: and I didn't really even notice. I wasn't doing it

595
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: on purpose. But the reality of the situation is there's like,

596
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 1: there's been about sixty men on my podcast, about three

597
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: women on my podcast. So next time you come, bring

598
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 1: your wife, ladies walking. There are a lot of ladies

599
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: around here, um hanging out, so could be that, uh

600
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: just grab one from the crowd every time we go. Anyway,

601
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not apologizing for it. I'm not sad

602
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 1: about it, but I do recognize that some bullshit and

603
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: then we need to all me included, do a little better,

604
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: including any on the podcast. Yeah, I mean listen, I

605
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: had any on any Racers r VP production choose the

606
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: expert of Game of Thrones. I had dr which you're

607
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: beating me in the game right now. Yeah, dude, where

608
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: are you out in the Game of Thrones game? You

609
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: got like six points? I got three. Yeah, but there's

610
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: plenty of time left. Man. And so for those of

611
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: you out there and podcast land that tried to criticize

612
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: my Game of Thrones and knowledge in your face, I'm

613
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 1: in the lead right now and the meat eater Game

614
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: of Thrones office pool, and I'm pretty sure I'm gonna win.

615
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 1: I'm pretty comment. Although you said the Night King would

616
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: kill Aria, yeah, man, I got that one backwards. So anyway,

617
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: moving moving back on to ethics and hunting anyway, Sorry, ladies,

618
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: I'm not apologizing, but I'm sorry that's what I want

619
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: to tell you, um so well coming up here in

620
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: a minute, Jesse Johnson. We're just talking to her about

621
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: lots and lots of things, women in the outdoors and wyoming,

622
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: wildlife and all kind of things, So stick around for that,

623
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: but we're gonna end this up with it was something

624
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: that we've been talking about on the website, and this

625
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: is this idea that it is fair to shoot a

626
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 1: grouse once it flies, and only when it flies you

627
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: flush it as the term, but unfair or unethical to

628
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,680
Speaker 1: shoot a turkey when it's flying. You're saying it, Yeah,

629
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:24,799
Speaker 1: it's a weird one, man, Like that's a weird one.

630
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 1: You can't shoot a volleyball out of this guy. Or no,

631
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: you can shoot a volleyball out of this guy, fast

632
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: moving volleyball, but you can't shoot a slow moving trash can.

633
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: You're never gonna hit that trash can. Brody, No, I would,

634
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: I would admit it. It's like maybe a little bit

635
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: harder to shoot a turkey on the in the air,

636
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: on the ground. I'm trying to simplify it a little bit,

637
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 1: but it's still again, it goes to situational ethics, like

638
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: if it's flying towards you, and you've got a clean shot,

639
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: and it's easy to kill. Why not, Like, I don't

640
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,239
Speaker 1: I I someone would really have to explain to me

641
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 1: why that's not included in fair chase. And uh. And

642
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: some people would rather kick up a grouse or a

643
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: pheasant and let it fly rather than just look down

644
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: at their feet and shoot it. Yeah. Um, and I've

645
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 1: done it all those ways. And uh, eat and grouse.

646
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:19,840
Speaker 1: So I don't really care. How right I had a

647
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: Randy newburg on here is. I see him over understanding,

648
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: might have to get him come over, he said, I

649
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: don't give a crap. I'll shoot a grouse in a tree.

650
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: I don't care. But you won't find a turkey hunter

651
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: in America that will shoot a bird on the roost.

652
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: In fact, it's illegal in some stage, very much, very

653
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: much so. So that's just a good example. We don't

654
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: need to get into the details of it. And the

655
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: details aren't I mean, it's this pretty simple. This is

656
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: what it is. We've we've constructed these two things. There

657
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: are a lot of different scenarios and reasons why this

658
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: is manifested itself, but there are some like there again,

659
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: this oxym ironic nature of saying shoot the smaller bird

660
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: in the air the bigger bird on the ground, and

661
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: what all this means and why we do it, what

662
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,879
Speaker 1: the history we make things awful complicated, and so as

663
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: hunters like this to surmise, to summarize. As hunters, we

664
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: have a very tough task. We have a very important task.

665
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: It involves taking life. And so ethics are can't be

666
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: removed from the situation like it would en not some

667
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,360
Speaker 1: other hobbyist pursuits or whatever you would say. So ethics

668
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: gotta have to be in there. And right now, you

669
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 1: could line up all the people in this room, all

670
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: of us are b h A members who I think

671
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 1: are awesome folks, and ten of them might have ten

672
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 1: different ideas about what's ethical and turkey anying, what is it? Um?

673
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 1: So I think that just goes back to that personal

674
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: ethics thing that we drove home earlier. You know, ethics,

675
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: that's what it is. It's again, it's a good term.

676
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: It's a term that I think we all care a

677
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 1: lot about. Um. We we're gonna do now, as you're

678
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: going to transport ourselves all the way across this here

679
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,720
Speaker 1: Boise Center and we're gonna sit down with Jesse Johnson

680
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: now again. Uh, We've I've had this, I've had this,

681
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: uh interview with Jesse scheduled well before I realized I

682
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: had a female list podcast, and I was a uh

683
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 1: was easily labeled a sexist by the guests I've had

684
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: on this podcast. Man. So I'm happy to have Jesse

685
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:38,400
Speaker 1: for that reason and many others. She is on on

686
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: her own regardless of gender, a badass hunter, the dedicated conservationist,

687
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: and somebody who's just interesting to chat with around all

688
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: the things we've talked about here and much more. So

689
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 1: let's get to it. Here's Jesse Johnson. All right, we're here,

690
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 1: We're back. We're here in um zy I know. Once again,

691
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: I'm joined by Jesse Johnson. How are you doing well?

692
00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: Last day of Rendezvous it is it's the last Rendezvous. Yeah.

693
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,640
Speaker 1: We had our mediate live podcast last night and then

694
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: I went to go to bed, and I happened to

695
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,600
Speaker 1: to get to bed, I had to walk through a bar.

696
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 1: You don't make it through that. I didn't. I didn't

697
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: make it through very well. And so let me just

698
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 1: admit to everyone listening now that I'm hungover. And and

699
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: that would be if you're not familiar with that process

700
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 1: is where I drank a lot of whiskey and then

701
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: stayed up late and had a very little sleep, and

702
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: now we're here, back in back in the Boise Center.

703
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: But I feel like it's the kind of time everybody

704
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: prepares for. You're like, well, I'm gonna be out, I'm

705
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 1: gonna have beer, I'm gonna be surrounded by great people

706
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 1: and likely not get to bed before two am. Yeah,

707
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: I mean it said this is a celebration, So I

708
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,800
Speaker 1: don't I don't feel bad. I don't feel guilty, but

709
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: I just want to be honest with everyone. Now are

710
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: you You seem to be fine. I'm feeling actually pretty

711
00:38:57,560 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 1: chipper today. You're feeling pretty good. I'm feeling pretty good.

712
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 1: We were just discussing, like the last day of rendezvous

713
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 1: is often this is just it's a little everybody's just

714
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: kind of hit and the runway well hazy does people

715
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: stumbling around you and know where they are. There's wamas outside.

716
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: I saw lamas on the way in here, people sitting

717
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: in talks staring a little bit blankly off to the

718
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,839
Speaker 1: higher left corner. Yes, well, Jessie, we wanna learn all

719
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:27,879
Speaker 1: about you today. I'm going to get through this best

720
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 1: I can. If I start gagging or making any weird noises,

721
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: she'll just cut it paused. But we're gonna get it.

722
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: We're gonna get it. So first I want to kind

723
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: of take people through who you are and where you

724
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: came from and why you do what you do. But

725
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: then we have some ethical and then some other you know,

726
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: why do why do we suck at recruiting females into

727
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 1: the hunting industry? There's another question I have. I'm really excited.

728
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: So you grew up in a ranching family. I say,

729
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: it says you're Montana, Northern California and Wyoming, and so

730
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 1: just give people a little bit of your background. You're

731
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, kind of your family life grown up and

732
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: and what that did for you. Um, getting into what

733
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: you do. Know. So I am an only child of

734
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: ranching family. UM, and I think that was due to

735
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 1: being a ranching family and having to run a ranch

736
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: and run children. I think my parents had me and

737
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, once enough, that's good. But the parents

738
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 1: are managers, so we didn't own the places that we

739
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: worked on, but they would come onto these places, and UM,

740
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: I kind of fondly call my dad a reclamation rancher,

741
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: so he would come onto these places and bring the

742
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: ecology back to a balanced, a balanced place. So, whether

743
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: that was rebuilding stream beds for healthy, healthy fish habitat,

744
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: working with the wildlife agencies to find better management UM

745
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: and a better balance between livestock and predator, whether it

746
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: was native grasses or working with invasive species, and that

747
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: kind of thing was all stuff that my dad talked

748
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: about and just sort of I grew up with a

749
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: notion that this was how it was done always and

750
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:11,720
Speaker 1: that when you lived uh in a balast ecology, everybody

751
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: benefits UM. And that's sort of an older style of ranching,

752
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 1: and a lot of people still do it UM, but

753
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: there's also a lot that don't do it anymore. And uh,

754
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,399
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that until I sort of left home

755
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: and whatnot. But we we were on ranches in Montana,

756
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: UM along the Blackfoot River, uh in Ovando, and then

757
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: in Wyoming for a while, and then northern California. So

758
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: I had a very eclectic community. UM. You know, it

759
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 1: wasn't just rural Wyoming. It was also rural and very

760
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: liberal California and some of it as well. UM. And

761
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: it was a very It brought a different way for

762
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,280
Speaker 1: me to approach um how I see how ranching works

763
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: with conservation. And my dad was a hunter, but he

764
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,479
Speaker 1: was know because of ranching. It was like he would

765
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: just go out shoot a cool look and way to

766
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: eat off of it and um, So it wasn't like

767
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 1: a lifestyle in that sense. And I wouldn't go out

768
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: from long periods and long days. It was just when

769
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: you could fit it in between the ranch tours. So

770
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: I never really got the opportunity to go. And it

771
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: wasn't that my dad wouldn't take, ma'am. He absolutely would have.

772
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: It just never was an option I thought about, um,

773
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 1: especially because when I was at the time when you

774
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: would be introducing into honey, I was in California. It

775
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: was a very different, um, different landscape and uh yeah.

776
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: Because of that, I didn't get into hunting until much

777
00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: later in life. And it wasn't through my dad. But

778
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 1: my dad's always been very supportive and my mom's the

779
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: same way. I'm actually in the position now where I

780
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,399
Speaker 1: get to take my mother hunting for the first time

781
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 1: and she's she'd been with my dad, had gone with him,

782
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: but she now because I picked up a bow and

783
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: wanted to start hunting. Um, I just bought her a

784
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: bows gone yet or not yet? Yeah, the bow is

785
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 1: not finished yet. She wanted to learn with a traditional

786
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,439
Speaker 1: bow and she did. Heck, yes, let's go. That's cool.

787
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: It's funny that, you know, my dad's a lot the

788
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,279
Speaker 1: same way. He didn't really start traveling around hunt so

789
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: I did. And now, um, he kind of looks to

790
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:10,880
Speaker 1: me to be like, where are we going next? What

791
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: are we doing next? Where? You know, it's really special

792
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: to have like that, be able to do that with

793
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:17,640
Speaker 1: a parent. Yeah, and we talked about I was talking

794
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: to a couple of guys at our show last night

795
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: about I don't feel It's not that I would feel

796
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 1: bad for an adult onset hunter or someone who just

797
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: kind of is looking for a community and doesn't have it,

798
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:29,840
Speaker 1: didn't have it in the Patrilninials sense, but but I

799
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: do feel I feel like that they're missing out on

800
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 1: something pretty special. And I think back when the you know,

801
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: the days following my dad in the woods, I just

802
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 1: remember this like larger than life character and I just

803
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,279
Speaker 1: wanted to be ever wherever he was. Um, and now

804
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: he kind of it's kind of flipped over he wants

805
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: to be wherever I'm at. It's really precious and um

806
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: my dad and I used to go on things called

807
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,320
Speaker 1: nature walks. My dad, you know, when I was a

808
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 1: little girl, and he'd go and he'd teach me, like

809
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: make me know the different types of trees. He'd talked

810
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: about the edible plants. Because of walking Encyclopedia for like nature,

811
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: it's really my dad's the same way. Every bird and

812
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 1: it can be like two miles away and a little

813
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: black dot like flies across. My Dad's like, Oh, that's

814
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:14,640
Speaker 1: such and such. It builds its nest here. This is

815
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: what it does. My dad's same way. Everybody knows and

816
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: I always makes fun of like redbreasted nut fucker, what

817
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: is that? What that's like? That's a generational as much

818
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 1: as we talk about on this podcast and elsewhere, it's

819
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 1: kind of like the generational shift in hunting. You know,

820
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: my dad doesn't hunt the way I did. We don't.

821
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 1: He doesn't think about I don't know that he thought

822
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: about conservation as a hunter. I never really asked him that,

823
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 1: but I just assume that he had never really thought

824
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 1: about it all that much. But he did know the

825
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: natural world more than I do you know he knows trees, birds,

826
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 1: and you know, I think more than I do. So

827
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: there's there's something you just had to give credit to

828
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: that I always wonder, you know, it's like I find

829
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: myself like I pull I'll pull my phone out and

830
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 1: google something to try and identify a plant if I'm

831
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 1: somewhere where I can get self service or whatnot. And

832
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: I always, uh, my dad's never needed that, Like he's

833
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: read the books and it's like absorbed and he just

834
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: knows it. And I'm wondering if that's an attention thing

835
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 1: that comes from technology always being at our tips of

836
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:20,320
Speaker 1: our fingers, or if it's something that's more Maybe he

837
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: just has a better memory than I did. Yeah, you

838
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: don't know. But again it's funny how you know, at

839
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: my age and even where you are in life, that

840
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 1: how those things start to flip back and you can

841
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: give back to the people that gave to you. And

842
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: we did one of our live podcasts, Steve asked us,

843
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: you know, we had we told a story about what

844
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 1: or why what our dad meant to us and hunting.

845
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: He's like got a couple of emails with people like

846
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,760
Speaker 1: what about what your mom meant to you and hunting.

847
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: And my answer was very much. She took down barriers

848
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: for me. She took care of our family, and she

849
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: never stopped us from doing what we loved and she

850
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 1: supported us, and like that's as important as anything. My

851
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: mom was the most optimistic, like is the most optimistic

852
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: human I've ever met. She's like that person that, uh,

853
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: especially working in conservation, I find myself I can get

854
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,560
Speaker 1: really pessimistic about our outlook sometimes. And when I'm really

855
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 1: feeling like that, and I go home and I'll go

856
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: spend some time with my mom and we're like out

857
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: out hiking, hunting, horseback riding, just being outside with her.

858
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: She always like stops and takes everything in and she'll

859
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 1: be at the top, like, look how beautiful it is

860
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 1: out here, look at this. And she has a story

861
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 1: that she told me. I'm obviously no memory of it.

862
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: I was six months old at the time, and we

863
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: were living um in Wilson, Wyoming, so right near Jackson

864
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: for a little bit, and they were in a rough

865
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: place with jobs. I think life was really stressful for

866
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: mom and dad at that point. But she tells me

867
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,279
Speaker 1: the story of standing at a window and looking out

868
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: the window and having like a big moon come up

869
00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: and like just having like a really beautiful view out

870
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: there window and moms saying like this is precious, Like

871
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,719
Speaker 1: you're in this and this is precious, and don't ever

872
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: forget that this is precious, since I'm going to choke

873
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: up now every time she tells me that, I'm like,

874
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: that's what I needed to remember. Um. And so when

875
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: things get really like I don't know, sometimes the outlook

876
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: is hard on conservation and when it gets like that,

877
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: going back outside and going this is precious is really important. Well,

878
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: it's just the term conservation and the idea we always say,

879
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:20,960
Speaker 1: you know, Lantoni would always say, like go fight, win,

880
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: and that's kind of how it is. Like it's a fight,

881
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's a fight. Conservation is a battle for

882
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: you know, standing up for what you believe in, but

883
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: also for you know, all places and water and critters

884
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: like the communication. Yeah, you know, it's not something that

885
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: you it's a passive. It's not a passive experience. You

886
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 1: have to push forward and fight and understand what you're

887
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,680
Speaker 1: trying to get at. So I I do when it

888
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: you have to think of the world is precious. If

889
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: you're going to be involved in something called conservation. Cont

890
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:56,560
Speaker 1: Telling your kids that from an early age does something

891
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: to that. I mean, for me, it did something to

892
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: me where it made me look at the world in

893
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: a completely different lens. UM, And it just was always

894
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: that way, and I was very lucky for it. But

895
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't always in the you know. I when I

896
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: was in California and I was based in dance, I

897
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 1: went to I wanted to go to school for dance. Yeah,

898
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: and I were step dance and like, and it was

899
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: just that's where I was like gearing towards and UM

900
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: just uh through sort of life cycles and getting bucked

901
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,359
Speaker 1: off a horse and being pretty laid up injury wise

902
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: for a while. UM had a change of path essentially

903
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 1: and went from dance and theater and and performing arts

904
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: into h different road and it ended up at conservation

905
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: in bow hunting. Oh yeah, it's funny how you trudged.

906
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: I examined, people say, like, how did you get to

907
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: where you are? Like, I have no idea. If I

908
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 1: was trying to get here, I would have never got here. Yeah,

909
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,800
Speaker 1: have you told me ten years ago I'd be sitting

910
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: in a backcountry hunters and anglers, ron devout in a

911
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: booth called meat Eater. Yeah, but like yeah, it sounds

912
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: like a weird weekend. Yeah, it's like huh interesting. All right,

913
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: well let's let's let's real quickly kind of rattle off

914
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 1: your conservation resume, because if we have a lot of

915
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: things that I want to discuss, we'll kind of give people,

916
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: you know why I am in Wildlife Federation, the things

917
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: you do with artemis give people just a quick snapshot

918
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 1: of what you do. So my my job, um, what

919
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 1: I get paid for, is with the Woming Wildlife Federation

920
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:29,360
Speaker 1: and I am their legislative li is on an advocacy coordinator.

921
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,520
Speaker 1: So what that means is that I spend a good

922
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: portion of my year at the Woming State Legislature, uh

923
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,840
Speaker 1: lobbying on behalf of hunting, wildlife, wild places, habitat, funding

924
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:42,359
Speaker 1: for all of that, um, basically anything that touches any

925
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 1: of those. For example, this year, I worked on thirty

926
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: one bills UM in the Wymi State Legislature for the

927
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 1: eight weeks that the legislature was in and then when

928
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 1: the legislature is off session and in their interim UM,

929
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:58,399
Speaker 1: I watched their committees whether it's there and basically any

930
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: time that the legislature is beginning to talk about wildlife

931
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 1: public lands or anything like that. Um, I'm there, I'm

932
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 1: in those meetings, and UM I'm just sort of tracking it,

933
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: watching it, or lobbying on behalf of it. And then

934
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: the advocacy side of that is I also build the

935
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: community of conservation ambassadors for Woming Wildlife Federation. So it's

936
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: finding people in different communities, empowering them to take and

937
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: move their stuff forward. UM. So we're not a top

938
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: down organization. We're an organization that works from local communities

939
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: like grassroots UM. And and especially in a place like Wyoming. UM,

940
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: that's really how you get things done there. They Wyoming

941
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: doesn't respond well to top down work, not in that culture.

942
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: And so what you know, all of those things that

943
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:40,840
Speaker 1: you've you've worked on here recently, what are the you know,

944
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: what are some of the highlights and some of your

945
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: winds and losses? And boy, I mean the losses is uh.

946
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: I think it's just the game of conservation. But you

947
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,560
Speaker 1: know that we do a lot of work in and

948
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:56,799
Speaker 1: for mule deer mulder habitat. I think particularly migrations UM

949
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: and the migration corridors are ramped up why. I mean,

950
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 1: it's been a leader and a lot of the migration work,

951
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: UM mainly because we've just had researchers on the ground

952
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 1: a lot longer than a couple other states, and we

953
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,160
Speaker 1: have these GPS colors, so we know where the deer going,

954
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: we know how far they're going. But now we're in

955
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: this uh stage of having to be like what do

956
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 1: we do with this knowledge and how do we make

957
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: the table large enough? Because it's a public land, private land,

958
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: working landscape issue. It's not just BLM land Bureau of

959
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 1: Land Management or for service land. It's private land, state land,

960
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: and we have to get everybody at the table um.

961
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: And when we're talking public land, we also have to

962
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: talk about the multiple use factor of like it's not

963
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: just like public land for conservation. Is public land that

964
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: has the option for development, has the option for resource

965
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 1: you know, resources that come out of that. And Wyoming

966
00:51:44,160 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 1: has a very resource heavy um economy. Yeah. And for

967
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: those who who don't know, and you correct me if

968
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm wrong on this one, but you know, the the

969
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,320
Speaker 1: idea around migration corridors for mule deer especially is to

970
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,600
Speaker 1: make sure the habitat is intact and they travel across

971
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: public and private lands. They travel across all types of

972
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: land use areas, um. And the difficulty is to put

973
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: that all together and say, we need to protect this corridor.

974
00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:12,160
Speaker 1: We need to pass legislation to make sure people aren't

975
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: you know, put a bunch of houses on where these

976
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: these animals travel, etcetera, etcetera. Ex And how do we

977
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,760
Speaker 1: do this best? You know, and in and its houses,

978
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 1: it's oil and gas, it's whatever it is, and it's

979
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: um you know, how do we do this in a

980
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,920
Speaker 1: way that again, you can't do it top down, like

981
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 1: where the legislation is like needs to come from the

982
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: table where everybody's sitting and agreeing at It can't just

983
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 1: be like somebody introduce this legislation that has no backing

984
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 1: because that and that's where we're at right now is

985
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: we found ourselves in very polarized places and we're trying

986
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 1: to like scale it back and be like, how do

987
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:48,600
Speaker 1: we fix this? You know, we don't want it to

988
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: be conservation versus oil and gas. That shouldn't be the

989
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,719
Speaker 1: way it is. It should be the fact that we

990
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 1: can be able to sit down together and find a solution.

991
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: And if that means it's a case by case thing.

992
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,160
Speaker 1: If that means that we find the news and things, UM,

993
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 1: that's what w WF is looking for. We want that

994
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 1: area where we find the balance because that's where you

995
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: actually get the strongest support for something. So, you know,

996
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think if I obviously I think of

997
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: my dad listen to this and not really knowing about

998
00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: my grace corridor is living in the East Coast, And

999
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: what's the boiling point? Like you know, obviously it's kind

1000
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: of the extract of industries versus conservation a lot. Like

1001
00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: you said, I mean, we really run up against that

1002
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: that combativeness or at least the idea that there is

1003
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: a pushing pool. Is that the boiling point or you know,

1004
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: what's the big boiling point of this issue of meal

1005
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: deer migration? You know, I think that's the on the

1006
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,319
Speaker 1: surface level, it's the boiling point. But I think when

1007
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: you look at like for like the nuance of it,

1008
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: it's actually the unwillingness to listen to the other opinion

1009
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,400
Speaker 1: and UM, to be so strongly rooted in one side

1010
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,439
Speaker 1: that you're unwilling to sit at a table to even

1011
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 1: like remotely try and compromise UM. And I think it's

1012
00:53:57,239 --> 00:54:00,799
Speaker 1: that at the it's the industry versus industry rather than

1013
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:02,400
Speaker 1: person when you have to see somebody that has a

1014
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: face and you sit down at a table and you're like, oh,

1015
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: we actually all have the same values. I've never met

1016
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 1: anybody that's worked in the oil and gas industry that

1017
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,439
Speaker 1: didn't love mule deer, that didn't love hunting, that didn't

1018
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: love clean air, clean water, places to go out. It's

1019
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: just from a different value of um, you know, they

1020
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: understand that it's jobs. It's you know, seeing it through

1021
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:25,080
Speaker 1: that lens, which I can very much understand, even if

1022
00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: I don't always agree with the way that they see it.

1023
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,359
Speaker 1: If I see it as a human and a person

1024
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 1: with some dynamics and not just like the evil industry

1025
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: that with like animal rights activists we were talking in

1026
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:39,360
Speaker 1: a recent podcast, like I like to think that folks

1027
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: that work for Peter wake up in the morning and

1028
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: there they care like they're not They're not some evil

1029
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 1: group of people that are trying to do And how

1030
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,800
Speaker 1: much worse would this world be if like there weren't

1031
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 1: like yeah, you know, Peter can for especially for the

1032
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 1: hunting community, can be like sort of something that makes

1033
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,359
Speaker 1: us roll our eyes, but also how much worse off

1034
00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,320
Speaker 1: would our world be if it was that level of

1035
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: people that just didn't give a ship at all. I mean,

1036
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: at least they wake up caring about wildlife, it's guided

1037
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:08,600
Speaker 1: or not, like when they feel altruistic about what they're

1038
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,320
Speaker 1: doing as much as we probably do. When we just

1039
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: come at it from such different perspectives, that's a sort

1040
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: of good and I like I said, I'm sure there's

1041
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 1: ideological connections between the extract of industries. In fact, like

1042
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 1: pragmatism is one thing that we talk about as hunters

1043
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: all the time, Like we look at wildlife in a

1044
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 1: very pragmatic sense. We try to use common sense management.

1045
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: We know, this is what we do. You know, I

1046
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: imagine if you talked to an oil and gas executively,

1047
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: like we're using pragmatism to try to judge our situation.

1048
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,360
Speaker 1: We do use oil and gas. We do need jobs.

1049
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: This is a huge industry for our country. It's a

1050
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:42,160
Speaker 1: big part of our economy, and we look at it

1051
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 1: that way. I would say, if you did like a

1052
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:45,439
Speaker 1: blind study and you had people that work for both

1053
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: and you're like, ask them their core values, I can't

1054
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: imagine that they wouldn't be very similar. That's good And

1055
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: every time I have someone on that actually works in conservation,

1056
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,239
Speaker 1: just because this to be clear, all I do is

1057
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,880
Speaker 1: talk about it. It's you know, I alwould say like

1058
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:01,480
Speaker 1: the thank you for what you do, but also just

1059
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,720
Speaker 1: getting an idea of what that's like on the ground,

1060
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,840
Speaker 1: what you go through every day you get up and

1061
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 1: face these issues and you know how you come at

1062
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: it like it's it's a I have to counsel myself

1063
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 1: a lot, you know, it's you can sit on a

1064
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,080
Speaker 1: podcast and have a lot of you know, high level

1065
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:21,960
Speaker 1: themes of like, yes, you see the other person as

1066
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 1: a person. But I absolutely have moments where I'm so

1067
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:28,879
Speaker 1: angry that I yeah, you know, it's we're all human.

1068
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: I have like gone and shut myself in a bathroom

1069
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,560
Speaker 1: stall in the legislature and cried before you we all

1070
00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 1: we all do that. So what I think there's a

1071
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 1: concept in a word. I was actually another in a

1072
00:56:47,280 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: recent podcast talking to the the Montana the University of

1073
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,560
Speaker 1: Montana chapter of h A, and there's folks and these

1074
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 1: are twenty eight whatever the old folks there. We kept

1075
00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:05,160
Speaker 1: using the word sustainable, and I just thought, in regards

1076
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,920
Speaker 1: to wildlife and regards to wild places and in regards

1077
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: to what we do. And I was just like slack

1078
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: jawed looking at him, like these guys get it, like

1079
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 1: they get it and they're you know, however, they got it.

1080
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 1: It's in them because that's the right thing. So as

1081
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: a conservation somebody who thinks about this stuff all the time,

1082
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: just talk about what sustainable means to you and kind

1083
00:57:24,720 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: of how it intertwines and all that you do. When

1084
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,640
Speaker 1: I think sustainable, I think like, like, what what is

1085
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,160
Speaker 1: the outcome that is going to make the most sense

1086
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: and be the best thing for the longest term for

1087
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: the most amount of people. And it's that sounds like

1088
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: it's easy to say, but when you think about it,

1089
00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I'm I'm I'm in the game

1090
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 1: of compromises. Because when you sit at the table and

1091
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:51,440
Speaker 1: you make a compromise and you find an outcome, everybody's

1092
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: good with that place or or wildlife or that decision

1093
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: will be protected by everybody that was sitting at that table.

1094
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: And when you leave evil out of that table um

1095
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: you end up with something that has holes in it

1096
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,320
Speaker 1: and does not hold water and is likely not long

1097
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: for this earth. You know and and and whether you

1098
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: get into the things of like what's going on with

1099
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: the grizzly bears right now, or what's gone on with

1100
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,919
Speaker 1: wolves or things that have gotten really polarized. We've seen

1101
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: struggle with finding long term solutions because we can't sit

1102
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: at a table anymore and we just lob bombs across

1103
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:28,400
Speaker 1: an aisle. And uh So when I think sustainable, I

1104
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: think like this, this ability to have the most protectors

1105
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:36,840
Speaker 1: for the longest time um and and the things that

1106
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: that come back around. And whether that's an ecology, whether

1107
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,520
Speaker 1: that's not human at all, whether that's uh having a

1108
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 1: a an ecology of place that's sustained for the longest

1109
00:58:45,120 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: amount of time, you know, Um, it's just that circle.

1110
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: It's got to be able to come back and feed

1111
00:58:49,320 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: into itself and and exist um without a ton of

1112
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,440
Speaker 1: work after that. Like so, I think when you build that,

1113
00:58:57,040 --> 00:59:01,360
Speaker 1: whether it's a sustainable um policy or to sustainable ecosystem,

1114
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 1: or it's a you know, a decision or just a lifestyle,

1115
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 1: it's something that has the most impact with the most

1116
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,720
Speaker 1: protection of that impact for the longest period of time.

1117
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 1: That's awesome. And I can continue to mentally go back

1118
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,520
Speaker 1: to that word all the time, these conversations like sustainability.

1119
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: I'd like to repeat it to myself sometimes let's make

1120
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: sure we're remembering that's what we're out here to do.

1121
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: But let's make sure we're remember you to push that forward.

1122
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:29,680
Speaker 1: So that's great. Um, we're gonna spend some time now

1123
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,760
Speaker 1: talk about women in hunting, and I will start that

1124
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: by saying, Jesse, I, I've made a lot of errors

1125
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:39,520
Speaker 1: in my life. I have a lot to have a

1126
00:59:39,560 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 1: lot to own up for. I had fifty four episodes

1127
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: of this podcast before I had a woman on. It

1128
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: was like a dude party for fifty four weeks before

1129
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 1: I had a female uh, sitting with the headphones on.

1130
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: And I don't I think that's it's like symptomatic of

1131
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: what's going on. It's not that I was out there.

1132
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: I wasn't doing either thing right. I wasn't trying to

1133
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 1: make it balanced, but I was was also not trying

1134
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:11,760
Speaker 1: to make it unbalanced. I was just finding interesting people,

1135
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:13,760
Speaker 1: pulling them in and talking to them at a you know,

1136
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 1: a pretty quick pace. You're doing it every week. You're

1137
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: just trying to get people that are interesting and and

1138
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 1: let people in on their stories and it strikes me

1139
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: that all the people I know in the industry, all

1140
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:24,960
Speaker 1: the things I've done that in that first in this

1141
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: first fifty four weeks, that I didn't one think to

1142
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 1: go pursue a female perspective. I also didn't. I also

1143
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: didn't find it weird that there weren't any and so

1144
01:00:37,400 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: I don't like somebody I was asked me, I said,

1145
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 1: would you like apologize to all females for not having anyone? Like? No,

1146
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: I don't because it wasn't I didn't do anything wrong

1147
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: in my opinion, but I feel like it does. It

1148
01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: is it is, you know, it's a symbolism for what

1149
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: we got going on here in this industry. And I

1150
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,920
Speaker 1: certainly don't ever think I mean, I never looked at

1151
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: that as malicious, you know, like it's not like you're

1152
01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 1: and I think most people reckon ignited that, I hope.

1153
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: So a lady rode in Andrea um, I wonder if

1154
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: I could find her an email, and she just said,

1155
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: I just discovered your podcast and I like to scroll

1156
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,320
Speaker 1: through and listen to the women episodes first when I

1157
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,360
Speaker 1: find a new podcast of the nature. And I scrolled

1158
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 1: through and she was like, I had a guy named

1159
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,200
Speaker 1: Aubrey Marcus and she's like I saw. I'm like, oh yeah,

1160
01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,400
Speaker 1: and there's a dude and she's like that, I realized

1161
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:28,360
Speaker 1: you had no women on And luckily for me, I

1162
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 1: was able to say, hey, you know, I'm having jesse On.

1163
01:01:32,240 --> 01:01:34,400
Speaker 1: I had Lily met calf On from the University of Montana,

1164
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: who studies um women's motivations and hunting. So I was

1165
01:01:38,120 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: like and I also didn't do that intentionally, it just

1166
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:43,400
Speaker 1: kind of came that way, but she made good points.

1167
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:46,360
Speaker 1: It's like this, this is there's a perspective out there

1168
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,880
Speaker 1: that's being missed. It was definitely missed by me. Well,

1169
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:51,720
Speaker 1: I think you know, when you look at the hunting

1170
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: community and in the industry and everything around it, um

1171
01:01:55,440 --> 01:02:00,880
Speaker 1: it it's historically Caucasian men um and and when you

1172
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 1: have a when you have something that has leaders in

1173
01:02:03,800 --> 01:02:06,880
Speaker 1: that arena, that has had it for a long period

1174
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,080
Speaker 1: of time, and it's built the system of of what

1175
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:11,960
Speaker 1: we expect, what we look up to, or what we

1176
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:13,880
Speaker 1: think is possible. A lot of that is like what

1177
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:19,360
Speaker 1: we think is possible um and it's all wonderful men

1178
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 1: who are doing work like yourself and everybody else. But

1179
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: it's also it. Uh. If you don't see yourself represented

1180
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: in that, um, it's hard to imagine yourself being in it.

1181
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: And um, it's hard. And it's not even that like,

1182
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 1: you know, when I got into hunting, I'm a I'm

1183
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,240
Speaker 1: a late I've only been hunting ten years now, I think. Um.

1184
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: And when I first picked up about and started looking

1185
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: at this arena, I was finding myself really enamored by

1186
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: how Steve Ranella talked about hunting, but also really disappointed

1187
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: that there was no woman out there that was like,

1188
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: you know, people like, oh, who's your hunting mentor who

1189
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: do you look up to? That's like out in front

1190
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: of people right now. And I couldn't find a woman

1191
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,520
Speaker 1: that I was looking, you know. And they they're out there,

1192
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:02,600
Speaker 1: there's an amazing group of women hunters, but they weren't

1193
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 1: on a platform where the world got to see them. Um.

1194
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:10,000
Speaker 1: And so I think that inhibits it, because if you

1195
01:03:10,080 --> 01:03:12,680
Speaker 1: can't see yourself in that position, you never pursue to

1196
01:03:12,800 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: achieve that position. UM. And I have a really uh

1197
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: my colleague and I Joy Bannon, who's also a wonderful

1198
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,880
Speaker 1: she's our policy director for Woming Wildlife Federation, and we

1199
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 1: were sitting and we were trying to come up with

1200
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: who would be a really wonderful Whyman, Game and Fish

1201
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:30,080
Speaker 1: commissioner who we could put in UM and recommend as

1202
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: w WF to be a commissioner. We sat there for

1203
01:03:32,360 --> 01:03:33,920
Speaker 1: an hour and a half before either of us saw

1204
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:36,360
Speaker 1: that either, but both of us were qualified to do it,

1205
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: and we were coming up with like all these great

1206
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:40,400
Speaker 1: wonderful men's names, and then we're like, yeah, it'd be

1207
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: great if there was like other women commissioners and we'd

1208
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: like sat They're like, wait, both of us have this

1209
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 1: ability to do this, why aren't we doing this? Um. So,

1210
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: it's that it's the representation and it's normalizing it because

1211
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 1: still people like, oh, you're a woman, you're a hunter,

1212
01:03:54,720 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 1: what's it like to be a woman in a hunter?

1213
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,440
Speaker 1: And um so, I think that's some of it, and uh,

1214
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: it has to be a conscious effort to change that,

1215
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,040
Speaker 1: because like you said, it's it's an unconscious thing where

1216
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:08,280
Speaker 1: you just you don't notice that it's happening. And you

1217
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 1: go fifty four episodes and you have all these amazing,

1218
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 1: wonderful men on that are talking about great things and

1219
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:16,880
Speaker 1: passionate wonderful things. But um, until I do the same

1220
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,160
Speaker 1: things that that woman. I go and I scroll scroll

1221
01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: through and I'm like, what are the you know, women

1222
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,080
Speaker 1: talking about in this arena? And it's hard to find? Yeah,

1223
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,360
Speaker 1: and it for so once you identify an issue, right,

1224
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: and we know I've said this, uh in the past

1225
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 1: two and I always am repeating things. But you know

1226
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 1: we know that like at Mediator, our audiences like men

1227
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: you know on a good day. Um, And I like,

1228
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: so you identify that as a problem, Like, that's not

1229
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: what we want, Like, we're not in this to just

1230
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,120
Speaker 1: to speak to one side of anything, whether it's you know,

1231
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:56,920
Speaker 1: religion or gender or ray. We just want everybody to

1232
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: enjoy and be enriched by the things that we and

1233
01:05:00,200 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: joy and are enriched by. But then once you've identified

1234
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:07,200
Speaker 1: the problem, the issue becomes the natural thing to do

1235
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: is kind of pander two the folks that aren't in

1236
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 1: the bucket, right, So then then you have this disingenuous

1237
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 1: outreach that doesn't really affect what you're trying to affect.

1238
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,120
Speaker 1: And so that's where I think a lot of us

1239
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,000
Speaker 1: are in this industry. We know there's an issue with it,

1240
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: we know it's growing. We all celebrate women in the

1241
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: outdoors and those types of things, but what what what

1242
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:34,360
Speaker 1: we tend to do with pink things? And and everybody

1243
01:05:34,360 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 1: always brings up pink, but it is true and we

1244
01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:41,840
Speaker 1: we're pandering too women. It's a um and from the

1245
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:45,680
Speaker 1: outside of it, it feels like a disingenuous outreach. Um

1246
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,280
Speaker 1: and And I think I had a really lovely conversation

1247
01:05:49,360 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: this morning that actually may have given me words for

1248
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:55,880
Speaker 1: this that I hadn't had before. Um But the best

1249
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: way to change this is rather than outreach, We're not

1250
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 1: in a space, honey. Community is still in a space

1251
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:05,040
Speaker 1: where I'm not sure we're ready to retain female hunters.

1252
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: So we can reach out all we want, we can

1253
01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: bring them on, but is this a space that feels

1254
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:14,280
Speaker 1: good to be a woman in? And oftentimes that is

1255
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,160
Speaker 1: not true yet um and and I think it's changing.

1256
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: So I think there's like great, I mean that the

1257
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:24,040
Speaker 1: effort is there, the desire is there, but whether I mean,

1258
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: it's everything from language, what community are you part of?

1259
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 1: The sportsman community? Like it's everything is it comes down

1260
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: to it and it and it leads to an error

1261
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 1: of um I think subconscious uh being uncomfortable and and

1262
01:06:42,160 --> 01:06:44,120
Speaker 1: so until we have a space that is that is

1263
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: uh built to feel like a place that we want

1264
01:06:49,440 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: to stay. It's going to be hard to keep women

1265
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: retained into it. And that's not just women, it's any

1266
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:57,920
Speaker 1: diversity into the hunting community. And a great point to

1267
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: make it's like we're not we're just sitting talking about

1268
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,080
Speaker 1: this subject. It's not just that women need to get

1269
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 1: into it. It's everybody does, right. We want everybody to

1270
01:07:05,920 --> 01:07:09,440
Speaker 1: have the opportunity to feel accepted and come on in,

1271
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: and we have to make sure that behinding community is

1272
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,880
Speaker 1: ready for that because like that's some of it is

1273
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 1: is is there are times where it doesn't feel welcoming still, um,

1274
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 1: and that's a that's a change that I think. It

1275
01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 1: happens slowly and it will never happen as fast as

1276
01:07:22,400 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: we want it, but it will happen, and it's happening,

1277
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:27,360
Speaker 1: you know. Just it's it's happening, and it's the work

1278
01:07:27,440 --> 01:07:29,480
Speaker 1: you guys are doing. It's the work I've done with Artemus.

1279
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:32,919
Speaker 1: It's it is changing. It's just you know, service fast

1280
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:35,760
Speaker 1: as we Yeah. Yeah, And I think there there's all that.

1281
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:39,560
Speaker 1: There's also there's cultural sensitivity to it and in a

1282
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:43,480
Speaker 1: lot of like more liberal environments like Hollywood that they're

1283
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:47,600
Speaker 1: forcing out into the front women UM to try to

1284
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,760
Speaker 1: balance the scales in a way that all of us

1285
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,880
Speaker 1: that are you know, sitting back on really really is that,

1286
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: what is that how we're going to solve this problem?

1287
01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,560
Speaker 1: And so I don't want us to do that. Drawing

1288
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: more lines never helps you get across any line. And

1289
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: then you know, putting down white males that come on

1290
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: man like, it's not that's not going to do anything.

1291
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:15,280
Speaker 1: And so it's I find myself generally trying to untangle

1292
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 1: very tangled issues, and I think this is one of

1293
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: them that seems on his face like, oh, we'll just

1294
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:25,720
Speaker 1: we don't have him, We'll just talk to him and

1295
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 1: they'll come over. It's super easy. But it's just not,

1296
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, and when you have a one on one conversation,

1297
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:34,920
Speaker 1: that is exactly how it goes, and that's actually how

1298
01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:37,880
Speaker 1: you started, is you know, have him come over and

1299
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,640
Speaker 1: sit on a podcast and talk to him. UM. But

1300
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: it is also when you're trying to do like the

1301
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: large cultural changes, it is, it starts with the little things.

1302
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:51,720
Speaker 1: It starts with UM. I think understanding that hunting has

1303
01:08:51,800 --> 01:08:57,960
Speaker 1: had a voice that UM is having a hard time

1304
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:02,000
Speaker 1: being relevant anymore. Is maybe the way that I would

1305
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:05,440
Speaker 1: put it, it's it's not welcoming to any outside communities.

1306
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,679
Speaker 1: And it's not because it's angry people and bad people

1307
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 1: or things like that. It's just a very closed door culture.

1308
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:15,320
Speaker 1: And um, whether it's the language we use, how we've

1309
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 1: marketed who we are, who we have let speak for

1310
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,280
Speaker 1: us for a long time. UM. You know, you ask

1311
01:09:20,320 --> 01:09:22,960
Speaker 1: anybody that, And I hate using the word anti hunter

1312
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:26,320
Speaker 1: because like if you ask anybody that doesn't understand the

1313
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 1: nuance of hunting, um, what they hear about us and

1314
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 1: what they think about us? UM. And if all I

1315
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:34,400
Speaker 1: saw was what was put in front of them, I

1316
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:38,040
Speaker 1: would think the same thing. Um. You know, I spent

1317
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 1: some time in California. I know exactly what it looks

1318
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 1: like from the outside. UM. And I was lucky I

1319
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: grew up in a family that sort of showed me

1320
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 1: the nuance of that early on. But it it was

1321
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:51,479
Speaker 1: very Uh. We do not speak in relatable terms to

1322
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: anybody except people that have been in the hunting community

1323
01:09:54,120 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 1: for a while. And we don't communicate our stories in

1324
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: relatable terms. We don't um speak about common values, and

1325
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: we lead with the things like we kill animals, which

1326
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,400
Speaker 1: is a really hard thing to bring somebody who really

1327
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:09,080
Speaker 1: cares about animals to the table whip um. And and

1328
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: rather than speaking about our experiences or emotions around things,

1329
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,920
Speaker 1: our vulnerability when things don't go right, like when like

1330
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:19,320
Speaker 1: hunting is a deeply emotional thing that happens, and and um,

1331
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: whether it's joy, whether it's sorrow, whether it's mistake, whether

1332
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: it's in whatever happens. Like, there's emotion in what we do. Um,

1333
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:31,120
Speaker 1: and we don't talk about it, and it's seen as, uh,

1334
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: something that's not cool to talk about. And you've got

1335
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 1: to be like the most badass hunter that's up on

1336
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,559
Speaker 1: the ridgeline with the biggest chandlers and like have all

1337
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,919
Speaker 1: your cool matching gear on. And um, that's not relatable

1338
01:10:43,000 --> 01:10:45,120
Speaker 1: to somebody that's sitting at home going I want to

1339
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:49,599
Speaker 1: do that. But also, holy crap, that's scary. Um. Yeah,

1340
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:52,559
Speaker 1: And we've run into like what really motivates us? Why

1341
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:54,679
Speaker 1: are we doing the thing that we're doing right. We've

1342
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:58,040
Speaker 1: we've built these constructs around what we do that are

1343
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: that make it seem altruistic, that make it seem like

1344
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,200
Speaker 1: it's for everyone. And I'm just not like I'm not

1345
01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:07,360
Speaker 1: believing a lot of it. I just and that's why

1346
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:08,960
Speaker 1: I started this podcast, and I was like, I don't

1347
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: really I care about this, but I don't believe that

1348
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: we believe the ship we say. I don't. I don't.

1349
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people say conservation and they

1350
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,759
Speaker 1: don't understand or they just say it because it protects

1351
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,240
Speaker 1: the thing they want to do. We use conservation as

1352
01:11:23,280 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: a word, not as an action. Yeah, very much, very much. So,

1353
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: you know, you just and the same thing with with

1354
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,479
Speaker 1: all the other you know, elements of why I hunt

1355
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:36,040
Speaker 1: that we've kind of all parroted, and you find yourself

1356
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:39,320
Speaker 1: kind of returning to those rather than taking the time

1357
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:43,280
Speaker 1: to critically think about really what you're doing. I can't

1358
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:44,800
Speaker 1: tell you. I mean, the reason that I feel like

1359
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:46,720
Speaker 1: I know that we're not doing a good job with

1360
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:49,280
Speaker 1: us yet as a as a community is that in

1361
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 1: my word, you know, I go to legislative committee meetings,

1362
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,080
Speaker 1: I go to Game and Fish Commission meetings, I go

1363
01:11:54,120 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: to season setting meetings. I am often times in there

1364
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 1: with only paid staff people. Hunters are not showing up,

1365
01:12:04,400 --> 01:12:07,760
Speaker 1: and um, you know, even when we had are the

1366
01:12:08,000 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 1: Game and Fish Commission meeting around the Grizzly bear hunt

1367
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:13,880
Speaker 1: in Wyoming. There was not a lot of people there

1368
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,320
Speaker 1: on voluntary status of like a citizen that's interested. And

1369
01:12:17,439 --> 01:12:20,760
Speaker 1: so it's hard. It takes time. Sometimes you have to

1370
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: take time out of a day that's a work day.

1371
01:12:22,439 --> 01:12:25,840
Speaker 1: It's not easy to do. Um. But it's also like,

1372
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 1: I'm a paid staff person, I'm a lobbyist. I'm there.

1373
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:30,560
Speaker 1: I'm the person with the facts and the numbers and

1374
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 1: the bullet points. Um. And I have my own personal stories.

1375
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,640
Speaker 1: But when I show up, it is not nearly as

1376
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:40,639
Speaker 1: powerful as if like five just citizens of the place

1377
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:43,080
Speaker 1: showed up and advocated on behalf of themselves for what

1378
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 1: they wanted. Um. My voice will never be that loud

1379
01:12:45,479 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 1: because I'm a paid staffer and well, and so I

1380
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 1: don't not to make light of anything. But there was

1381
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:53,640
Speaker 1: a seminar or something that I saw. It was like

1382
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:59,160
Speaker 1: how to influence politics or how to influence local hunting

1383
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 1: and fishing pole see, And I thought, well, that would

1384
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: be a quick one. Just formed, be educated, form your

1385
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:12,720
Speaker 1: opinion and then voice it. And and luckily we live

1386
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 1: in a in a time where there's a lot of

1387
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: ways to voice that. You can write letters, you can

1388
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: write emails, you can can tweet them, can tweet them,

1389
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:26,160
Speaker 1: for God's sakes, tweet them. You can go and show

1390
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,800
Speaker 1: up physically to these places. And as my buddy Ryan

1391
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 1: Callahan always says, like that's all it takes. These these

1392
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 1: people are not like politicians, are not leaders. They're just

1393
01:13:38,400 --> 01:13:40,760
Speaker 1: they're not. They don't know that there's to lead there

1394
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,080
Speaker 1: there for you to tell them what to do. And

1395
01:13:43,400 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 1: I've I sat with Senator Martin Heinrich last night and

1396
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:49,400
Speaker 1: ask him that question, like, how much does if let's

1397
01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 1: say you got your staffers have collected ten letters on

1398
01:13:51,880 --> 01:13:54,400
Speaker 1: the subject and then then they've given you the summation

1399
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 1: of those things, how much does that effective you do?

1400
01:13:56,280 --> 01:13:58,960
Speaker 1: We said, that's what my job is. I've watched a

1401
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:01,120
Speaker 1: vote change on the floor because of one letter someone

1402
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 1: sent in Wyoming because it's a small legislature where a

1403
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 1: tiny state with five thousand people, we have more cows

1404
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 1: and people. It's you know, we have this really incredible

1405
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:13,400
Speaker 1: blessing of having our neighbors bear legislators. But when I've

1406
01:14:13,479 --> 01:14:16,120
Speaker 1: been i was at legislature there was a bill coming

1407
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: through was actually the Hunting Technology Bill um and it

1408
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,799
Speaker 1: was just giving the Game and Fish Commission the authority

1409
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:25,920
Speaker 1: to regulate some of this crazy technology that's coming out, UM,

1410
01:14:26,680 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: and or if they want to regulate it. Was just

1411
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 1: giving him the power to but there was a legislator

1412
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:32,760
Speaker 1: that was against it. I reached out to a couple

1413
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:35,519
Speaker 1: of my friends, UM, who were back in Lander, who

1414
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:39,480
Speaker 1: were in this district, and they sent some great respectful,

1415
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,160
Speaker 1: kind but firm and what they were asking emails UM,

1416
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 1: and they sent a text back said hey, we just

1417
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: sent the emails. I watched him look down at his

1418
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,960
Speaker 1: computer and the vote came around, and this was the

1419
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 1: second time they had voted on it, and so this

1420
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 1: is like I knew his vote from the day before.

1421
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 1: This is the second time going through, and he changed

1422
01:14:56,080 --> 01:14:59,240
Speaker 1: his vote and I was like, there's three emails that

1423
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,360
Speaker 1: came in from people. That was it three? UM? And

1424
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:03,800
Speaker 1: he stood up and he said, I had a young

1425
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:05,840
Speaker 1: man in my district that sent this, and I think

1426
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 1: I need to listen. And that was the AHA moment

1427
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: where it's just like, see, I know it feels like

1428
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:16,080
Speaker 1: you're faceless and voiceless in this and it's because you

1429
01:15:16,200 --> 01:15:18,599
Speaker 1: don't always get a response back. Because when you're one person,

1430
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:20,840
Speaker 1: you get eight hundred emails. It's really hard to send back,

1431
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:23,599
Speaker 1: but they do listen and it does make a difference.

1432
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 1: And even the tweets do, which is a concept I'm

1433
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:28,479
Speaker 1: still trying to wrap my head around tweet them. I

1434
01:15:28,520 --> 01:15:30,200
Speaker 1: remember when I first I was in college. They said

1435
01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 1: I went to a like a journalism symposium and the

1436
01:15:33,040 --> 01:15:35,560
Speaker 1: people from Twitter were there and I was like, what

1437
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:38,639
Speaker 1: we were just making The name was like, oh, you're

1438
01:15:38,640 --> 01:15:43,679
Speaker 1: a Twitter somebody that was and we just walked away

1439
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:47,000
Speaker 1: as like whatever, ten twelve years ago whatever it was. Um,

1440
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:49,920
Speaker 1: so that's a that's a side. That's the side. But yeah,

1441
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 1: I mean I think you're you're very much right, and

1442
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:56,160
Speaker 1: I've come to to find that we're able to impact

1443
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,360
Speaker 1: these things. And if you look at the examples from

1444
01:16:00,320 --> 01:16:03,200
Speaker 1: back anglers, and that's not that just happens to be

1445
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 1: where they are where we are currently. We get in

1446
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 1: this thing, especially in this kind of insular back b

1447
01:16:09,520 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 1: h A world. People hear me talk about this organization

1448
01:16:12,439 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 1: all the time. I'm on the board. But that's happening

1449
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:18,200
Speaker 1: in Dust Unlimited, it's happening Delta Waterfoul, it's happening in

1450
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,840
Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain. ELK Foundation these are bigger groups with more

1451
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,639
Speaker 1: corporate feel to them, but there's people in the ground

1452
01:16:25,880 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: volunteering and doing the things. And I am sometimes guilty

1453
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:35,280
Speaker 1: of maligning the organization for what it for its mistakes

1454
01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:38,800
Speaker 1: or what I feel it's not doing right without really

1455
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:41,720
Speaker 1: focusing on the people. There's a lot of niches that

1456
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: they feel and I think you know, b h A

1457
01:16:43,640 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 1: is different from many different organizations, and they all fill

1458
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:50,080
Speaker 1: in niche. There's always there's a place on the map

1459
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:53,040
Speaker 1: for everyone. UM, and I think you know, from the

1460
01:16:53,120 --> 01:16:56,599
Speaker 1: outside looking in, UM, i've seen them get too augured

1461
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:00,479
Speaker 1: into what common space on the niche they've fill, rather

1462
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:02,680
Speaker 1: than the fact that there's some differences that are very

1463
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 1: vital and very needed. You know. For instance, PHA has

1464
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: been amazing and getting you know, the younger generation involved.

1465
01:17:09,880 --> 01:17:13,760
Speaker 1: No other group has come close to that. And and

1466
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 1: rather than the whether it's a jealousy or things that happen,

1467
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:21,479
Speaker 1: it should have been a learning thing, be like what's

1468
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:25,400
Speaker 1: PhD doing that's working? Why okay? And then you know

1469
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:28,280
Speaker 1: when when you flip that around and BH goes, okay,

1470
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:31,720
Speaker 1: we're growing organization, how do we get more structure, you know,

1471
01:17:31,880 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 1: so that we're a little more air tight when we

1472
01:17:33,439 --> 01:17:35,479
Speaker 1: look at the larger groups and we can function on

1473
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,920
Speaker 1: that level as well. So rather than like learning from it,

1474
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:42,920
Speaker 1: it's there's always been tension, and um yeah, there's there there,

1475
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:45,280
Speaker 1: I will say just from being in it. Man, there's

1476
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:49,200
Speaker 1: a lot of strife in it, and there's a lot

1477
01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: of like finger pointing and name calling and politic ng around.

1478
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,799
Speaker 1: If we stopped politicking each other and started politicking the politics,

1479
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:00,960
Speaker 1: you would get done there. It is. That's a T shirt.

1480
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:04,120
Speaker 1: I'm always trying to find T shirts. Um yeah, you're

1481
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:05,720
Speaker 1: the right job. I think you know, we got T

1482
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:09,479
Speaker 1: shirts hanging behind us. I do feel like that's very,

1483
01:18:09,640 --> 01:18:12,320
Speaker 1: very true, and and being I'm not a like a

1484
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:17,000
Speaker 1: bordy type of guy, like I don't. I don't, It doesn't.

1485
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:20,200
Speaker 1: It's not something that i've but I was brought to

1486
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:23,719
Speaker 1: this because of passion and also very because I see

1487
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:27,000
Speaker 1: in the people here what I want to see in

1488
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 1: hunting and fishing, Like it is a mirror of what

1489
01:18:29,560 --> 01:18:33,080
Speaker 1: I feel personally is the right way to act. And

1490
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 1: and passion here that's really powerful, right. I don't necessarily

1491
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:41,720
Speaker 1: see that in other groups, But that doesn't mean that

1492
01:18:41,840 --> 01:18:45,200
Speaker 1: what they're doing isn't good for conservation. And then the

1493
01:18:45,280 --> 01:18:47,680
Speaker 1: other point I would make is that, well there's a

1494
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,120
Speaker 1: lot of groups pushing back on v h A is

1495
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 1: leftists and green decoy And if you come here and

1496
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 1: you walk around, you you're just like, I'm not seeing it.

1497
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:02,479
Speaker 1: I'm not not seeing it. Maybe there's some insidious plot

1498
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:05,280
Speaker 1: we're not aware of, but I was not seeing it.

1499
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 1: And a lot of that pushback has been, for lack

1500
01:19:09,520 --> 01:19:12,519
Speaker 1: of a better term, from leaderships of other more traditional

1501
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 1: legacy conservation groups. It's fear based, you know. I think

1502
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 1: we we try and conceptualize like, um, it's easier to

1503
01:19:20,400 --> 01:19:24,840
Speaker 1: to cause something leftists and green decoy and you know,

1504
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:28,200
Speaker 1: come up with things and actually have a nuanced discussion

1505
01:19:28,240 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 1: about what it is is bothering us on it? Um.

1506
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:34,400
Speaker 1: We like to title we we we turn it. Well,

1507
01:19:34,439 --> 01:19:37,040
Speaker 1: they turn you it stopped seeing you as a person

1508
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:40,759
Speaker 1: and they start seeing you as like a nefarious intent.

1509
01:19:41,960 --> 01:19:45,519
Speaker 1: And we do that all the time on multiple levels.

1510
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,200
Speaker 1: There's there is one thing that I wish um, you know,

1511
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 1: speaking on the hunter involvement level, um, and how I

1512
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:56,240
Speaker 1: wish more I would see more people at public meetings

1513
01:19:56,280 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: and speaking up. But the frustration comes is that Tears,

1514
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:02,720
Speaker 1: I've noticed are really really good at showing up when

1515
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:06,320
Speaker 1: something's taken away from them. They're really crappy at advocating

1516
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 1: for stuff they don't have or stuff that isn't in

1517
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 1: danger yet. Um, you know they can. They'll show up

1518
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: with pitchforks and torches if you try and take something.

1519
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 1: And that's good. It's good to have that. I'm not

1520
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 1: knocking that. But what we are bad at is getting

1521
01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:23,600
Speaker 1: ahead of the rolling ball. Um. We're really great at reactionary,

1522
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 1: we're not great at like planning and positive movement. And

1523
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,280
Speaker 1: I would love to see a world where we kept

1524
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 1: the politicians so busy with positive legislation rather than spending

1525
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:39,120
Speaker 1: all our time fighting negative legislation. Um. And we're starting

1526
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,120
Speaker 1: to see that, you know, some of this LWCF stuff

1527
01:20:41,120 --> 01:20:44,120
Speaker 1: at the national level, something like the Recovering America's Wildlife Act,

1528
01:20:44,160 --> 01:20:47,000
Speaker 1: all these things that are positive. We're seeing people starting

1529
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 1: to learn how to advocate for rather than just being like,

1530
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:55,879
Speaker 1: you know, oh my god, bears ears everybody like pitchwork

1531
01:20:56,000 --> 01:21:03,600
Speaker 1: and I don't like. Yeah, it was explained earlier in

1532
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: one of our episodes, is like we don't wait till

1533
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:07,439
Speaker 1: the wolf's at the door. We wait till that's in

1534
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 1: bed with us, like we wait till they're already gnalling

1535
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 1: on our ankle. And we should be we should be

1536
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:14,880
Speaker 1: asking ourselves, am I in a place where the wolf

1537
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 1: might come to my door? That? That should be what

1538
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:19,280
Speaker 1: we're busy with is worrying about what happens when he

1539
01:21:19,320 --> 01:21:21,280
Speaker 1: gets there. He shouldn't even be at the front door.

1540
01:21:21,600 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 1: We should be worrying about where he's coming from. Yeah,

1541
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:28,400
Speaker 1: I mean in the gun rights world, that's how it is. Yeah,

1542
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:32,400
Speaker 1: it's very effective. It's like, so there's some intricacies in

1543
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 1: in that thinking where to be so proactive, Like like

1544
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 1: a human psychology, that proactivity kind of manifest itself in

1545
01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:43,720
Speaker 1: some fear based communication, which is where I think it

1546
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 1: gets it was where I think it gets a little shaky.

1547
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:47,920
Speaker 1: And so what we have to kind of do, I

1548
01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:52,200
Speaker 1: think is a community is decide, okay, we have to

1549
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:55,720
Speaker 1: be proactive. We have always been reactive, but let's do

1550
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: that and as you said, a very positive way. And

1551
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 1: as foe who have a voice in this world, and

1552
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 1: these leaders in our conservation groups, let's not always act

1553
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 1: like the sky is falling in order to get people

1554
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,639
Speaker 1: to go. We don't need red font and exclamation points

1555
01:22:09,680 --> 01:22:12,680
Speaker 1: on every action alert um. And we should pick and

1556
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:16,040
Speaker 1: choose when we use it. And and it's yes, everything

1557
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 1: is important, and yes it's a game of a thousand cuts,

1558
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:21,360
Speaker 1: and you know it's it's uh, that is the case.

1559
01:22:21,479 --> 01:22:25,120
Speaker 1: But the integrity. If we lose integrity, So if we

1560
01:22:25,280 --> 01:22:27,920
Speaker 1: come out and the sky is falling, the sky is

1561
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: falling and sky is flying, people are eventually going to

1562
01:22:30,400 --> 01:22:33,720
Speaker 1: realize that this guy is not falling yet. Um. And

1563
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:35,640
Speaker 1: it might be on its way, and it might be

1564
01:22:35,760 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: leading up to a much longer you know, we know

1565
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 1: that every little cut is like bringing that fall closer.

1566
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 1: But in communications and the way that people react, eventually

1567
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:48,879
Speaker 1: people go death. Um. And and that's I'm so terrified

1568
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:51,000
Speaker 1: of that happening, especially because it's a hunting community. We're

1569
01:22:51,040 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 1: five percent, We're tiny, tiny little bit of the population.

1570
01:22:55,200 --> 01:23:00,840
Speaker 1: We're powerful, activated, interested, loud, five percent we are. But

1571
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 1: we have If we lose our integrity, we don't have anything. Yeah. Yeah,

1572
01:23:05,840 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: And I've you know, always talking to the folks I

1573
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:11,920
Speaker 1: know in this space and telling them, you know, you're

1574
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:16,800
Speaker 1: leaders in conservation. You're like, do not fall into that fearmongering.

1575
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:19,760
Speaker 1: Do not because it's for an organization like this one,

1576
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:21,680
Speaker 1: especially for b h A. You could come. You can

1577
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:23,760
Speaker 1: wake up every morning be like our lands. We're gonna

1578
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 1: losing our land. We're losing our land. It's all going away. Please,

1579
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:29,120
Speaker 1: you know, buy a membership. Please buy a membership, or

1580
01:23:29,120 --> 01:23:31,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna lose all your public plans. And like you said,

1581
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 1: that becomes problematic to the point where you're only then

1582
01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 1: desiring action around some sort of you know, like trepidation

1583
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:43,400
Speaker 1: instead of waking up in the morning be like, dude,

1584
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:47,439
Speaker 1: I really want clean air, clean water, public lands to

1585
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,799
Speaker 1: be accessible. And that's my positive view of the world,

1586
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: and I'm going to go out in the world and

1587
01:23:52,120 --> 01:23:56,160
Speaker 1: make that happen. It right, And there's like some manifestation

1588
01:23:56,400 --> 01:24:01,800
Speaker 1: of those ideas, that positive that you can't have if

1589
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:05,479
Speaker 1: it's fearmonger, you can't have that. That it the ability

1590
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:08,600
Speaker 1: you lose the honest communication and and and yes you

1591
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:11,120
Speaker 1: get an initial reaction, um, But I also worry, you know,

1592
01:24:11,160 --> 01:24:14,680
Speaker 1: when you do send out like that everything's bad um.

1593
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:18,360
Speaker 1: And and sometimes it's very very warranted um. But you're

1594
01:24:18,360 --> 01:24:21,680
Speaker 1: in the reaction from everybody that's writing in say like

1595
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 1: in the email notes, it's like, oh my god, everything's bad.

1596
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:27,880
Speaker 1: And when it hits at a policy level or a

1597
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:33,280
Speaker 1: legislative or or delegation level, um, the you know it,

1598
01:24:33,479 --> 01:24:36,560
Speaker 1: it snowballs. You know, I walk up to you and

1599
01:24:36,680 --> 01:24:39,920
Speaker 1: I yell at you. You then get uncomfortable because you've

1600
01:24:39,920 --> 01:24:42,040
Speaker 1: been yelled at, and so you go yelling and you

1601
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:45,600
Speaker 1: either immediately put up a wall and say I'm not

1602
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:47,360
Speaker 1: listening to you. Like you don't tell somebody to change

1603
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 1: the color the shirt by walking up and smack him

1604
01:24:49,080 --> 01:24:51,519
Speaker 1: across the face and saying I hate your shirt. You

1605
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:53,519
Speaker 1: you go up and you become a friend. You see

1606
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 1: them as a person and you go, hey, man, like

1607
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:56,920
Speaker 1: that's your color is not great on you, and then

1608
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:59,240
Speaker 1: maybe they'll listen to you. But like you know, when

1609
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:02,960
Speaker 1: you when you do this, like everybody freak out. Walls

1610
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:07,720
Speaker 1: go up almost immediately, and um, the integrity is not

1611
01:25:08,240 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 1: structural um in that sense. And uh, sometimes it's warranted.

1612
01:25:13,320 --> 01:25:15,360
Speaker 1: Sometimes you have to go to that length. I'm not

1613
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 1: saying that it shouldn't ever be used. Yeah, sometimes you

1614
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:19,720
Speaker 1: need to be like the wolf out the door. You

1615
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:21,800
Speaker 1: need to be a little bit scared wolf just lay

1616
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 1: down in the bed freak out, freak out time. Yeah,

1617
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:26,840
Speaker 1: so they're like you said that, there is nuance to it,

1618
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:29,000
Speaker 1: there is ways to approach it. But I will tell

1619
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,640
Speaker 1: you and anybody else that is a member of the

1620
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 1: n r A that's out there, like you get these

1621
01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:37,679
Speaker 1: robot calls. I got a robot call from Colonel Oliver

1622
01:25:37,840 --> 01:25:42,880
Speaker 1: North that just was like this desperate plea was this,

1623
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:47,120
Speaker 1: we're losing our freedoms. They're after us, They're coming after us.

1624
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:50,720
Speaker 1: These evil people want our guns. They need to take

1625
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 1: them away. They're literally going to come to your house,

1626
01:25:53,840 --> 01:25:58,000
Speaker 1: you know. Um, And I just I'm thinking, listen, I know,

1627
01:25:58,640 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 1: I know that there are people calling for restrictions on guns.

1628
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:04,000
Speaker 1: I that I don't agree with. I'm I I'm very

1629
01:26:04,080 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 1: understanding of that. And when I go to vote, I

1630
01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:08,439
Speaker 1: always take a look at that. I always take a

1631
01:26:08,479 --> 01:26:11,920
Speaker 1: look at it. But man, that's a desperate like it

1632
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:14,040
Speaker 1: seems like you're desperate, maybe a little bit in debt

1633
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:17,040
Speaker 1: or like I want to know the person that's like

1634
01:26:17,240 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: puts the phone down. It's like, uh, there's a lot

1635
01:26:20,439 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 1: of them. There's a lot of them. But it was

1636
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:23,839
Speaker 1: like if if I was trying to sell you a vacuum,

1637
01:26:23,920 --> 01:26:26,200
Speaker 1: and I like, dump some dirt on your floor. I'm like, look,

1638
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:28,760
Speaker 1: look at this dirt. There's no way to get it up.

1639
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:32,479
Speaker 1: You're you could, Oh my god, your kids, it's gonna

1640
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:34,800
Speaker 1: be here forever. Your kids are gonna get sick. Here's

1641
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:37,280
Speaker 1: but I have a vacuum and it's a hundred bucks.

1642
01:26:38,360 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 1: So I just I don't agree with that. There is

1643
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:43,639
Speaker 1: a reality in the world where that is that does happen,

1644
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 1: and it needs to happen. But I think it just

1645
01:26:45,840 --> 01:26:48,479
Speaker 1: goes into intentional language, and that goes across the board,

1646
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:51,400
Speaker 1: whether we're talking conservation or women's involvement and things. You know,

1647
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:55,120
Speaker 1: the way we speak about hunting has needed a facelift,

1648
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:57,200
Speaker 1: and I've been very appreciative for what you guys that

1649
01:26:57,280 --> 01:26:59,519
Speaker 1: need either have done for that. Um you know, lead

1650
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 1: with her now and and what everybody he's brought on

1651
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 1: has been a very good job at broadening what it

1652
01:27:05,560 --> 01:27:08,760
Speaker 1: means to be hunter. Um. But but we only get

1653
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 1: as big as we can and there's the next step.

1654
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:15,000
Speaker 1: That's that's I think what we've brought in is the

1655
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:19,120
Speaker 1: conservation and hunting nuance. People are starting to figure that out,

1656
01:27:19,400 --> 01:27:21,479
Speaker 1: but now we have to bring in the conservation, hunting

1657
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:25,360
Speaker 1: and diversity nuance, and that is a much harder conversation

1658
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:28,439
Speaker 1: to have, And it's one that like language, how we

1659
01:27:28,560 --> 01:27:32,479
Speaker 1: tell stories, how we communicate with people, um is really

1660
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,840
Speaker 1: really vitally important. UM. Well yeah, like I could promise

1661
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:37,320
Speaker 1: you though, we're not scared to have it on this

1662
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:41,000
Speaker 1: program or the media program or anything that we create.

1663
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:43,880
Speaker 1: Like I'm not scared of any topic. I don't care.

1664
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:49,040
Speaker 1: I actually enjoy And then a big fan of these

1665
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 1: entanglements like that. I feel like, if we agree on

1666
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:54,280
Speaker 1: nine of things, that's very boring. If we just talked

1667
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 1: about this, let's focus on the ten and get somewhere.

1668
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 1: Let's move towards productivity. So I would say that, but

1669
01:28:02,080 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 1: to get back to the two women and hunting. But

1670
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:07,280
Speaker 1: we're gonna let's just try to solve it here right now.

1671
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:09,720
Speaker 1: It's like it's key. If we could just solve it,

1672
01:28:10,920 --> 01:28:15,280
Speaker 1: then you know, we move on, split we move on.

1673
01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:20,000
Speaker 1: What are a couple of experiences that you've had where

1674
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:25,479
Speaker 1: you've come away thinking, boy, that was a negative I had.

1675
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:28,080
Speaker 1: This is And again it goes back to the kind

1676
01:28:28,080 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 1: of the epiphanies I've had lately about how we do

1677
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 1: this and the issues that I've not brought up. A

1678
01:28:34,840 --> 01:28:38,400
Speaker 1: young lady named Hannah, I believe, and in Missoula there,

1679
01:28:38,439 --> 01:28:40,519
Speaker 1: when I was talking to the h a chapter just

1680
01:28:40,640 --> 01:28:43,439
Speaker 1: said to me very simply, I go into sports his

1681
01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 1: warehouse or at the big box retailer with a with

1682
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 1: a male counterpart, whether it's sometimes a boyfriend, sometimes just

1683
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:55,040
Speaker 1: a friend whatever. And so she it's like, we'll go

1684
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:57,320
Speaker 1: in there and I'll ask a question and the clerk

1685
01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:01,320
Speaker 1: will talk to the male person and not even look

1686
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:04,880
Speaker 1: at me, like I'm just there to hold the bag. Um.

1687
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:08,080
Speaker 1: So that that got me thinking about those experiences. I

1688
01:29:08,240 --> 01:29:12,000
Speaker 1: don't obviously, I can't have that perspective. What do you got?

1689
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:13,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. I think there's

1690
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:16,840
Speaker 1: a there's a phrase for that called man's planning. Um.

1691
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:21,520
Speaker 1: But I you know, I have I have those experiences

1692
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:24,560
Speaker 1: and and UM have them a lot outside of the

1693
01:29:24,640 --> 01:29:27,600
Speaker 1: hunting community, even especially in the political job that I do.

1694
01:29:28,560 --> 01:29:31,639
Speaker 1: But in the hunting world, Uh, it's it's very similar.

1695
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:35,760
Speaker 1: It's uh not being taken seriously or like I know

1696
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. Um. I am an archery only hunter.

1697
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:41,639
Speaker 1: I started with a bow, I learned with back tension.

1698
01:29:41,680 --> 01:29:44,800
Speaker 1: I had a phenomenal mentor who I mean, had me

1699
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:47,360
Speaker 1: blindfolded in front of a target kind of learning form

1700
01:29:47,439 --> 01:29:50,679
Speaker 1: before I ever did anything else. Um. But also taught

1701
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 1: how to time my cams, how to tie a peep site,

1702
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 1: how like everything, taught me how to tune a bow. Um.

1703
01:29:58,880 --> 01:30:02,800
Speaker 1: And I've found myself going into bow shops and uh

1704
01:30:04,120 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 1: knowing more than the bow tech and uh trying to

1705
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:10,200
Speaker 1: explain what I want done because I don't have a

1706
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:14,680
Speaker 1: press and being like, no, this is what I want done, um,

1707
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 1: and then being like you must not know what you're

1708
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:18,800
Speaker 1: talking about. Have you ever tied a peep site in before?

1709
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:21,920
Speaker 1: And just being like, yeah, I tied that one, um,

1710
01:30:22,600 --> 01:30:24,880
Speaker 1: you know, and and that kind of thing that's been

1711
01:30:24,920 --> 01:30:27,800
Speaker 1: a frustrating one. And I think also we experienced it

1712
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:33,920
Speaker 1: in the car mechanics world, but also the the just

1713
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:37,160
Speaker 1: when I go into buy a bow um. Actually my

1714
01:30:37,280 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 1: first experience as I walked into a store um and

1715
01:30:40,920 --> 01:30:42,960
Speaker 1: kind of knew what I wanted and I was handed

1716
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,640
Speaker 1: the choice of like raspberry, pink, pink, camo and like

1717
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:49,080
Speaker 1: turquoise or something. Yeah, and it was it was very

1718
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:50,400
Speaker 1: much like, no, I want to hunt with this and

1719
01:30:50,439 --> 01:30:52,040
Speaker 1: they were like, I'm sorry, you want to want it.

1720
01:30:52,560 --> 01:30:53,960
Speaker 1: I was like, I want to go hunting with this.

1721
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:58,000
Speaker 1: I don't want to write pink bow. Um. And So

1722
01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:00,320
Speaker 1: whether it's just those kind of things, the assumption of

1723
01:31:00,439 --> 01:31:02,479
Speaker 1: like why I was there or what I knew or

1724
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:04,599
Speaker 1: how much I was there and UM, I've been lucky

1725
01:31:04,680 --> 01:31:07,200
Speaker 1: that I haven't haven't had Hannah's experience where I've had

1726
01:31:07,439 --> 01:31:09,400
Speaker 1: gone in with a man and have them only ever

1727
01:31:09,479 --> 01:31:12,720
Speaker 1: speak to that UM. But I also find myself when

1728
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:15,560
Speaker 1: I do go in with a man, UM, and I

1729
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:18,000
Speaker 1: think this is something that I do a lot that

1730
01:31:18,080 --> 01:31:19,680
Speaker 1: I need to work on. Is I tend to let

1731
01:31:19,760 --> 01:31:23,920
Speaker 1: them talk and I don't know why. I know just

1732
01:31:24,040 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 1: as much as them, but I just end up in

1733
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:29,800
Speaker 1: those situations. Sometimes I'm like, well, it's either if you

1734
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:33,040
Speaker 1: explained that, Yeah, do you feel like I think one

1735
01:31:33,080 --> 01:31:35,240
Speaker 1: of the things. You know, we got a lot of

1736
01:31:35,280 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 1: people come up that this event and others that are

1737
01:31:37,960 --> 01:31:40,720
Speaker 1: brand brand new hunters, you know, we get that a

1738
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:44,320
Speaker 1: good bit. And I've also I've heard a couple of

1739
01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:49,920
Speaker 1: times that female hunters very much feel more comfortable learning

1740
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:55,320
Speaker 1: this from other females. I'm like, always skeptical of that,

1741
01:31:55,400 --> 01:31:58,400
Speaker 1: because I like, are we are we still pandering here?

1742
01:31:58,439 --> 01:32:00,320
Speaker 1: Are we calling them female hunters? Or are we trying

1743
01:32:00,320 --> 01:32:01,680
Speaker 1: to put them in a little group like, oh, a

1744
01:32:01,720 --> 01:32:04,960
Speaker 1: female hunting camp, you guys go over there, and oh,

1745
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:08,960
Speaker 1: you'll just be pilf and things like. I wonder about that.

1746
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:10,920
Speaker 1: So there's two sides of it to me. One, I

1747
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 1: hope we're not creating these like artificial female hunts. So,

1748
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:17,880
Speaker 1: but the other side, do you feel that that's the

1749
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:21,200
Speaker 1: effective way to teach a like a female, a new

1750
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:24,360
Speaker 1: female hunter to go and do it, to be surrounded

1751
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:27,280
Speaker 1: by a bunch of women. It depends. I think it

1752
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:30,080
Speaker 1: depends on the person. Um. I think some women that

1753
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:32,559
Speaker 1: is much more comfortable, and that is exactly what needs

1754
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:34,880
Speaker 1: to happen. And you know, sometimes you need to be

1755
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:37,599
Speaker 1: in a space where, uh it's okay to talk about

1756
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 1: the fact that women have periods in the actors. That's

1757
01:32:40,040 --> 01:32:45,559
Speaker 1: really taboo, you know, and sometimes you need that space

1758
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:47,519
Speaker 1: where you can have those discussions where I don't think

1759
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:51,439
Speaker 1: those discussions happen in a male based hunting camp. Um.

1760
01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:55,120
Speaker 1: And especially when there's like questions from women about how

1761
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 1: to deal with things like that, Um, those happen in

1762
01:32:57,880 --> 01:32:59,960
Speaker 1: those female camps. And what I will tell you is

1763
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 1: the female camps are I I've been in a lot

1764
01:33:03,640 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 1: of all I've been the only woman and a lot

1765
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:09,800
Speaker 1: of all male kids before, and I've been very rarely

1766
01:33:09,840 --> 01:33:12,439
Speaker 1: in an all female camp before. So I'm very jealous

1767
01:33:12,439 --> 01:33:14,519
Speaker 1: of the women that get to do that. UM that

1768
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 1: the I think it depends on the person, though, because

1769
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,679
Speaker 1: I have been out UM with the first light crew

1770
01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:23,280
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. Uh there was six dudes and me, and

1771
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:25,920
Speaker 1: they were amazing, and they were welcoming and they were

1772
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:30,000
Speaker 1: uh funny and kind and I felt very welcome. That

1773
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:31,760
Speaker 1: it took me three days to realize I was the

1774
01:33:31,800 --> 01:33:35,760
Speaker 1: only female in camp. UM like it it was. I've

1775
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:37,840
Speaker 1: had those wonderful experiences, So I think they happen in

1776
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:40,040
Speaker 1: both places. I think what it is is the people

1777
01:33:40,120 --> 01:33:42,360
Speaker 1: that are there in the intention of it. UM. If

1778
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:45,240
Speaker 1: there are female hunters that are wanting to get into

1779
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:48,160
Speaker 1: it but are feeling like a woman is going to

1780
01:33:48,240 --> 01:33:50,719
Speaker 1: be easier to work with, than that's what you should

1781
01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:53,840
Speaker 1: go with it. There's no shame, there's no like. Go

1782
01:33:54,000 --> 01:33:56,200
Speaker 1: with what works for you. UM. I was taught by

1783
01:33:56,240 --> 01:33:58,080
Speaker 1: a male mentor and he was amazing. UM. And he

1784
01:33:58,200 --> 01:34:00,200
Speaker 1: was my boyfriend at the time, and it was amazed saying,

1785
01:34:00,439 --> 01:34:04,720
Speaker 1: uh that we didn't kill each other. But he was

1786
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,080
Speaker 1: also a very wonderful human. Edit. And so I've seen

1787
01:34:07,360 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 1: I've seen the what I hope people can do. Gosh,

1788
01:34:13,720 --> 01:34:16,439
Speaker 1: that's a good answer, man, Like I think that's a

1789
01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 1: very honest answer, not like, well here here's what we

1790
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 1: should do. That's it's it's different for everybody. Um, I

1791
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 1: tend to try to generalize things, but I appreciate you

1792
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:28,559
Speaker 1: bringing it back to the bigger bactory alley. Some people

1793
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:31,120
Speaker 1: like that, some people don't. It's like, I will never

1794
01:34:31,160 --> 01:34:33,679
Speaker 1: you'll never catch me dead in the color pink out hunting.

1795
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:35,639
Speaker 1: But you know what, if you want to rock pink

1796
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:37,600
Speaker 1: and go hunting and wear makeup and haul that, you

1797
01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:42,439
Speaker 1: should freaking do that. All right. Well, you know there's

1798
01:34:42,479 --> 01:34:43,960
Speaker 1: some other things we want to cover, but I think

1799
01:34:43,960 --> 01:34:46,599
Speaker 1: we saw the woman things we're good at that we're

1800
01:34:46,680 --> 01:34:50,200
Speaker 1: people to just treat us like people. What's the word

1801
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:52,800
Speaker 1: that we're going to use. Because somebody wrote in to

1802
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:56,240
Speaker 1: the Meteor podcast and they said, I don't understand what's

1803
01:34:56,240 --> 01:35:03,800
Speaker 1: wrong with sportsman because it's sportsman whoaman. It's like that

1804
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:06,280
Speaker 1: made me laugh. Think, like, what's the word we use

1805
01:35:06,400 --> 01:35:09,559
Speaker 1: because I'm as I'm a writer, um or I've written

1806
01:35:09,560 --> 01:35:12,240
Speaker 1: a lot of things, and I get a little I

1807
01:35:12,320 --> 01:35:15,080
Speaker 1: don't have an answer for that. Sports people sports people.

1808
01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 1: Now I swear sports woman is more of a mouthful.

1809
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:21,679
Speaker 1: That's just sportsmen and women. I have to say sportsman

1810
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:23,320
Speaker 1: has like a different it's not just the men thing

1811
01:35:23,360 --> 01:35:27,679
Speaker 1: that bothers me. I really hate sport, really hate sport.

1812
01:35:28,479 --> 01:35:32,080
Speaker 1: Both sides of that work. Like that word. We canceled

1813
01:35:32,120 --> 01:35:35,360
Speaker 1: that word. Thank god we took care of that canceled. Yeah,

1814
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:38,240
Speaker 1: I think sport. I think when we talk about intentional

1815
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:43,720
Speaker 1: communication and language, sport does not communicate well what hunting is. Um.

1816
01:35:44,280 --> 01:35:47,280
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I don't have an answer for that.

1817
01:35:47,320 --> 01:35:50,760
Speaker 1: And it's something I've struggled with with with Artemis. You know,

1818
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:53,160
Speaker 1: we were like, okay, we're Artemis, but what do we

1819
01:35:53,240 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 1: call all the amazing men that are supporting us? And

1820
01:35:55,040 --> 01:35:59,400
Speaker 1: we're like, Artamen, you know, like you have you have

1821
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,360
Speaker 1: these like but there is no word yet and and um,

1822
01:36:03,360 --> 01:36:07,080
Speaker 1: you know, I find myself intentionally avoiding sportsman and sportswoman.

1823
01:36:07,120 --> 01:36:11,120
Speaker 1: I will just write hunter and angler, um, which is

1824
01:36:11,640 --> 01:36:14,840
Speaker 1: not fun to always have to spell out and too

1825
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:16,800
Speaker 1: it's a long and it's a mouthful and that kind

1826
01:36:16,840 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 1: of thing. So I guess the call out there is

1827
01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:21,280
Speaker 1: like we need a word. Um, I don't have an

1828
01:36:21,320 --> 01:36:24,080
Speaker 1: answer to that. Right in th HC at the Meat

1829
01:36:24,120 --> 01:36:26,280
Speaker 1: Eater dot com and then give us the word we

1830
01:36:26,360 --> 01:36:29,479
Speaker 1: ought to be used to describe us, our little group here. Yeah,

1831
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 1: because I'm you know, I get nervous, like sports people

1832
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:35,000
Speaker 1: that stupid. Yeah, it's just a weird one. And I

1833
01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:37,400
Speaker 1: used I I get lazy. I use the word sportsman

1834
01:36:37,439 --> 01:36:39,960
Speaker 1: because there isn't a better word out there, but I

1835
01:36:40,160 --> 01:36:42,200
Speaker 1: use it and then I internally cringe because they hate it.

1836
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:44,480
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that are like damn snowflakes

1837
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:49,960
Speaker 1: changing the words talking about diversity, like I wonder why

1838
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:52,040
Speaker 1: this community has had to close our policy for so long.

1839
01:36:52,520 --> 01:36:55,439
Speaker 1: That's why I like that. That's the point I like

1840
01:36:55,560 --> 01:36:59,200
Speaker 1: to make is like, man, I disagree there. I disagree

1841
01:36:59,200 --> 01:37:00,639
Speaker 1: with a lot of things A lot of people say.

1842
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:06,439
Speaker 1: I mean all the time, and I when someone comes

1843
01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:09,280
Speaker 1: in and goes walks into our community and is not

1844
01:37:09,439 --> 01:37:12,400
Speaker 1: really one of us, right, there's an example out there,

1845
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:16,360
Speaker 1: and I'll just with a fellow named Charles Post who's

1846
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 1: in our who I love and I think it's an

1847
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:22,439
Speaker 1: awesome human being. He's he's kind of in the outdoor

1848
01:37:22,439 --> 01:37:25,600
Speaker 1: wreck space. He's an ecologist. He's from UC Berkeley and

1849
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:27,680
Speaker 1: he and he started working in the hunting space and

1850
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:29,360
Speaker 1: doing a bunch of things. Came with this podcast a

1851
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:34,439
Speaker 1: couple of times. He comes from California. Man, he if

1852
01:37:34,479 --> 01:37:37,600
Speaker 1: you ever met the guy, he's like granola in the

1853
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:41,479
Speaker 1: best way possible, Like he wears strappy shoes and like

1854
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:45,840
Speaker 1: he's real bubbly. He's like the opposite of what we

1855
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 1: would expect to have in our world. And so when

1856
01:37:49,640 --> 01:37:52,160
Speaker 1: he first came in as like celebration, somebody that's not

1857
01:37:52,240 --> 01:37:54,960
Speaker 1: like us came over and then he stepped out of

1858
01:37:55,000 --> 01:37:58,160
Speaker 1: line and made some comments about gun control, and he

1859
01:37:58,360 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 1: now has to a lot of people said, now he

1860
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:03,240
Speaker 1: has to leave. He's not one of us. What the fuck?

1861
01:38:05,040 --> 01:38:08,120
Speaker 1: What how are we going to achieve a bigger community

1862
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:10,800
Speaker 1: if that's how we treat people who float ideas we

1863
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:14,519
Speaker 1: don't agree with this straight from the topic is supported

1864
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:16,599
Speaker 1: only you know, when you talk about having we're talking

1865
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:18,280
Speaker 1: about policy, and you know, like you know, the best

1866
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:21,080
Speaker 1: thing is when it's supported by everybody at the table. Uh,

1867
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:24,880
Speaker 1: we are not making strides and conservation because our table

1868
01:38:25,040 --> 01:38:27,760
Speaker 1: is fucking tiny and it's not friendly to sit at,

1869
01:38:28,400 --> 01:38:30,200
Speaker 1: not having it like we should be able to have

1870
01:38:30,320 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 1: opinions and be able to disagree with each other respectfully,

1871
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:37,479
Speaker 1: but still work towards the same goal, like our common goal.

1872
01:38:37,680 --> 01:38:39,280
Speaker 1: That light at the end of the tunnel, I think

1873
01:38:39,439 --> 01:38:42,080
Speaker 1: is probably across the board the same for all of us,

1874
01:38:42,479 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 1: but it's very nuanced and how we get there and

1875
01:38:44,320 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 1: how we want to see it get get You know,

1876
01:38:46,760 --> 01:38:48,360
Speaker 1: we should be able to do our own journeys. You

1877
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:51,080
Speaker 1: should be able to take this trail trail, and I

1878
01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:52,720
Speaker 1: should be able to take this trail and we still

1879
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:55,719
Speaker 1: get to the top. And no wonder, people that aren't

1880
01:38:55,760 --> 01:38:58,439
Speaker 1: white bearded dudes don't want to come into this. Yeah,

1881
01:38:58,479 --> 01:39:00,519
Speaker 1: the beard seems like to be the thing now. The

1882
01:39:00,600 --> 01:39:03,200
Speaker 1: whole Mediator office is like the same person just cloned.

1883
01:39:04,320 --> 01:39:07,439
Speaker 1: Luckily Ronella has no beard, honest doesn't. But the rest

1884
01:39:07,520 --> 01:39:09,679
Speaker 1: of them, all of us, we just just bearded fellows

1885
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:12,000
Speaker 1: and then we'll have a mustache and that's it. Um,

1886
01:39:12,520 --> 01:39:14,240
Speaker 1: it was no wonder people don't want to come in

1887
01:39:14,320 --> 01:39:16,040
Speaker 1: If that's the way we're gonna treat him is a

1888
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:21,160
Speaker 1: dude from California. What do you think he thinks? Yeah, like,

1889
01:39:21,240 --> 01:39:23,040
Speaker 1: think about their new one, Like where did they come from?

1890
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 1: Why did they think that they do? And would you

1891
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:26,880
Speaker 1: feel the same way if you were in their shoes,

1892
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:29,519
Speaker 1: raised where they were and had every I mean, people

1893
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:32,280
Speaker 1: are a product of a lot of different things. And yeah,

1894
01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:34,720
Speaker 1: and then and you know, bring him in, celebrate the

1895
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:37,080
Speaker 1: diversity he brings to our group and the expertise he brings.

1896
01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:39,040
Speaker 1: But then when he speaks up on something like gun

1897
01:39:39,120 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 1: control and he was wrong. I told him so, just

1898
01:39:42,120 --> 01:39:44,519
Speaker 1: be like, hey, man, you're wrong on this. You're wrong

1899
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:46,880
Speaker 1: on this. Let me tell you what we think. Now

1900
01:39:47,560 --> 01:39:49,840
Speaker 1: if if he wants to get into a more robust

1901
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:52,920
Speaker 1: conversation around that, and we him and I have I'm

1902
01:39:52,960 --> 01:39:57,000
Speaker 1: happy to have it. I welcome those And why is criticism? So,

1903
01:39:57,320 --> 01:40:01,320
Speaker 1: I mean, we're it's hard. It is hard to hear criticism.

1904
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:03,880
Speaker 1: It's very hard to hear. And it's uh, you know,

1905
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:08,479
Speaker 1: for me, I had to have some self examination because

1906
01:40:08,479 --> 01:40:11,639
Speaker 1: I was the person that was like the I hate

1907
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:13,280
Speaker 1: the term, but for lack of a better term, like

1908
01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:17,559
Speaker 1: the Barbie doll huntress we solved women and hunting problems,

1909
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:19,680
Speaker 1: but it was very critical of that. And and I

1910
01:40:19,760 --> 01:40:21,760
Speaker 1: had somebody reach out and me like, hey, but if

1911
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:24,160
Speaker 1: that's how you feel confident in the outdoors, like, shouldn't

1912
01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:26,519
Speaker 1: you just go out like that? And I'm like, ship,

1913
01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:31,240
Speaker 1: I was wrong. Um and uh, and so to hear that.

1914
01:40:31,320 --> 01:40:33,519
Speaker 1: But it's hard. It's so hard to hear something when

1915
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:35,960
Speaker 1: you have like when you're passionate and you're want to

1916
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:39,200
Speaker 1: say something and so so the critique we should always take,

1917
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:42,400
Speaker 1: um and and at least examine it and warrant if

1918
01:40:42,479 --> 01:40:45,800
Speaker 1: it merits passing through and being something that we need

1919
01:40:45,880 --> 01:40:49,479
Speaker 1: to change, or um if there is the gentle pushback

1920
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:51,640
Speaker 1: of like, hey, no, that's not how it is, Like

1921
01:40:51,720 --> 01:40:53,439
Speaker 1: let's sit down and talk through this and maybe we

1922
01:40:53,479 --> 01:40:56,640
Speaker 1: can find like a road for word together. Oh. That's

1923
01:40:56,680 --> 01:40:58,919
Speaker 1: a hard thing about examining these kind of like cultural

1924
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:02,639
Speaker 1: things and the broad scale. Sometimes it sounds like this vapid,

1925
01:41:02,840 --> 01:41:07,479
Speaker 1: just nonsense, But it is important to kind of maneuver

1926
01:41:07,800 --> 01:41:10,280
Speaker 1: in them and around them to the point that you know,

1927
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:13,560
Speaker 1: these conversations mean something. Um, and I think that I

1928
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:16,080
Speaker 1: think it does. I think it does. So we're gonna

1929
01:41:16,120 --> 01:41:18,080
Speaker 1: get to a few things. It's a couple of segments

1930
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:21,720
Speaker 1: here on the show, and the first one is brand new. Um,

1931
01:41:21,920 --> 01:41:23,560
Speaker 1: I don't really have a name for what we'll call it.

1932
01:41:24,080 --> 01:41:26,519
Speaker 1: Name that Conservationist, that's what we'll call it. And it's

1933
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:29,040
Speaker 1: it's brought you by First Light, who you work with.

1934
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:31,519
Speaker 1: So thank you for doing that, and thank you first

1935
01:41:31,600 --> 01:41:34,240
Speaker 1: Light for sponsoring this program. I'm going to leave today

1936
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:36,719
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna drive over west of your inn Idoh,

1937
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:38,479
Speaker 1: put on my first Light and shoot a turkey in

1938
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 1: its face. Yeah, and then yeah, then I'm going to

1939
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:45,680
Speaker 1: Oregon and shoot another turkey and it's face and then

1940
01:41:45,680 --> 01:41:47,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna eat them. So thanks to First Light for

1941
01:41:47,800 --> 01:41:49,880
Speaker 1: being a part of this segment and my turkey killing.

1942
01:41:50,439 --> 01:41:52,759
Speaker 1: This is where I'm gonna say some stuff, some facts,

1943
01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:55,400
Speaker 1: types of things, and you're gonna have to guess who

1944
01:41:55,400 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. And if you get it, I'm all

1945
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:02,240
Speaker 1: give you. I'll give you a meat eater T shirt

1946
01:42:02,640 --> 01:42:05,160
Speaker 1: and then you can wear it so terrible at these

1947
01:42:05,439 --> 01:42:09,280
Speaker 1: and and you know, guess what. It's unisex based on

1948
01:42:10,160 --> 01:42:11,840
Speaker 1: the topic of this podcast. It could be worn by

1949
01:42:11,840 --> 01:42:20,120
Speaker 1: men or women. In your face diversity, all right. This

1950
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:28,080
Speaker 1: person was born in eight and raised in Burlington, Iowa.

1951
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:33,080
Speaker 1: Do you know who it is? Yeah, I'm so bad

1952
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 1: at this new Okay, this is a it's an easy one.

1953
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:40,160
Speaker 1: This should be easy. He graduated from the Yale Forest

1954
01:42:40,200 --> 01:42:47,120
Speaker 1: School in nineteen o nine. Got it yet, I'm terrible

1955
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:50,960
Speaker 1: at any of these. To tell me the name and

1956
01:42:50,960 --> 01:42:52,600
Speaker 1: I'll be like, oh, yeah, that sounds correct. But I

1957
01:42:52,680 --> 01:42:56,120
Speaker 1: am not the fact. Remember, I'm the I'm gonna make

1958
01:42:56,160 --> 01:42:57,920
Speaker 1: it easy. I'm gona trying to make it easier for

1959
01:42:58,040 --> 01:43:05,000
Speaker 1: you here. He's from Wisconsin. He wrote a famous almanac.

1960
01:43:05,560 --> 01:43:09,760
Speaker 1: Although wrote a famous I was sitting there and I

1961
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:12,599
Speaker 1: was like, going between like three others and hus, I'm

1962
01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:13,920
Speaker 1: not sure how are these are going to be? So

1963
01:43:13,960 --> 01:43:16,600
Speaker 1: I was pulling up. That was too easy, although it

1964
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:18,880
Speaker 1: was all though. Now, if you look behind you, we

1965
01:43:18,960 --> 01:43:22,240
Speaker 1: have a brand new shirt. It says it's a picture

1966
01:43:22,280 --> 01:43:25,840
Speaker 1: of all tho its like you freakingly freaking Leopold. That

1967
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:28,280
Speaker 1: is a great shirt. He's a badass, and my brother

1968
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:31,400
Speaker 1: actually did the illustration for it. He's a badass too,

1969
01:43:32,200 --> 01:43:33,320
Speaker 1: But I like, I don't know if a lot of

1970
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:35,000
Speaker 1: people know what he looks like. That's what he looks like.

1971
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:38,880
Speaker 1: Walked past this booth and I didn't read the name,

1972
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:40,400
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's a really cool shirt. And

1973
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:42,280
Speaker 1: then came back around. I was like, look at him.

1974
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:45,000
Speaker 1: He got he's rolling a pipe and he just looks

1975
01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:48,439
Speaker 1: like a conservationist. I feel like he should be sitting

1976
01:43:49,000 --> 01:43:51,240
Speaker 1: next to a fire with like a journal in his hand,

1977
01:43:52,080 --> 01:43:55,400
Speaker 1: ends a little little glass of Scotch on the rocks

1978
01:43:55,439 --> 01:43:57,200
Speaker 1: on the side. Yes, So if you don't know about Aldo,

1979
01:43:57,920 --> 01:43:59,960
Speaker 1: I always get it wrong because there's a loophole the company.

1980
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:03,360
Speaker 1: But it's Leopold, as I've been told many times, Leopold.

1981
01:44:04,120 --> 01:44:06,320
Speaker 1: If you don't know about that guy, go read a

1982
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:09,679
Speaker 1: Sand County Almanac. It's a seminal piece of conservation letter.

1983
01:44:09,800 --> 01:44:12,920
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. It's one of those like you get through

1984
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:15,240
Speaker 1: it and you're just like have chills. You're just like, yeah,

1985
01:44:15,479 --> 01:44:18,720
Speaker 1: and what plane did this person exists to write this? Um?

1986
01:44:19,160 --> 01:44:21,160
Speaker 1: You know, Steve and I both I would say and

1987
01:44:21,240 --> 01:44:23,479
Speaker 1: not to pare what Steve says all the time, because

1988
01:44:23,520 --> 01:44:26,040
Speaker 1: like it is the piece of literature that kind of

1989
01:44:26,120 --> 01:44:29,439
Speaker 1: changed my perspective on on like how to approach these

1990
01:44:29,520 --> 01:44:33,000
Speaker 1: thoughts and ideas and like in terms of killing animals

1991
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:36,479
Speaker 1: and conservation and predators and all the things that we

1992
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:39,920
Speaker 1: kind of deal with. He's the one how we look

1993
01:44:39,960 --> 01:44:42,120
Speaker 1: at the nuance of things. I like it. And if

1994
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:43,720
Speaker 1: you turned around behind you, there's a shirt that I

1995
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:46,320
Speaker 1: came up with that says pro nuance, anti bullshit. I

1996
01:44:46,439 --> 01:44:49,080
Speaker 1: love that people. A lot of people are buying it.

1997
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:50,760
Speaker 1: I want to. I wonder if people want to have

1998
01:44:50,800 --> 01:44:52,720
Speaker 1: bullshit written across their chest, But these people don't care.

1999
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:55,280
Speaker 1: I want to wear this under the blazer when I

2000
01:44:55,320 --> 01:44:57,760
Speaker 1: go to work at the legislature. And if you like,

2001
01:44:57,840 --> 01:45:00,880
Speaker 1: if you win, like a bill pass you just in

2002
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:03,560
Speaker 1: your face. All right. We got one more segment, and

2003
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:05,400
Speaker 1: this is one that a lot of people have come

2004
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:07,880
Speaker 1: up to me this week and either chided me for,

2005
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:14,000
Speaker 1: threatened me about or said it's funny, but mostly they're

2006
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:16,640
Speaker 1: upset now and I don't care. I don't gonna care.

2007
01:45:16,840 --> 01:45:19,679
Speaker 1: I'm starting a revolution. And this one's called and here's

2008
01:45:19,680 --> 01:45:21,840
Speaker 1: another one. It's usually called Hotspot Cool Dude, but in

2009
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:25,200
Speaker 1: this case, hot spot cool lady. And this has brought

2010
01:45:25,240 --> 01:45:29,240
Speaker 1: to you by Federal Premium Ammunition. We do love their

2011
01:45:29,400 --> 01:45:31,040
Speaker 1: We were talking talking to some of the dudes here,

2012
01:45:31,080 --> 01:45:33,599
Speaker 1: Michael Kin and Jason Nash. We're gonna go turkey hunt

2013
01:45:33,640 --> 01:45:36,800
Speaker 1: with these guys and talking about some of their compara

2014
01:45:36,840 --> 01:45:39,679
Speaker 1: bullets last night, talking about some of their new their

2015
01:45:39,760 --> 01:45:41,439
Speaker 1: new coming out with a new custom shop. I'm gonna

2016
01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:44,000
Speaker 1: go over there and check it out. Um so on

2017
01:45:44,120 --> 01:45:46,519
Speaker 1: what happened? Thank you, Federal Premium. This is called hot spot,

2018
01:45:46,560 --> 01:45:49,839
Speaker 1: cool lady, And this is where I tried to convince

2019
01:45:49,960 --> 01:45:53,280
Speaker 1: you to give up your hottest hunting spot to all

2020
01:45:53,479 --> 01:45:57,800
Speaker 1: the listeners of the hunting collective. Now I've got at

2021
01:45:57,920 --> 01:46:01,240
Speaker 1: least four spots thus far, and I've had a couple

2022
01:46:01,240 --> 01:46:04,720
Speaker 1: of people tell me to screw off. So those are

2023
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 1: basically your option. You can give up your hunting spot.

2024
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:08,559
Speaker 1: It can't be a bra. It's gonna be like longitude

2025
01:46:08,600 --> 01:46:12,080
Speaker 1: latitude exactly where people could go. Because what I'm trying

2026
01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:13,800
Speaker 1: to do is start a revolution where if no one

2027
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:17,040
Speaker 1: has any spots, then there won't be spots. If everybody

2028
01:46:17,080 --> 01:46:20,960
Speaker 1: shares all their spots, then the hunting spot ceases to

2029
01:46:21,040 --> 01:46:23,479
Speaker 1: exist and we all can just go wherever we want.

2030
01:46:24,000 --> 01:46:26,880
Speaker 1: Not you have to keep your mouth shut. That's what

2031
01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:28,439
Speaker 1: I'm trying to achieve. But a lot of people came

2032
01:46:28,479 --> 01:46:29,800
Speaker 1: up to me and yelled at me here at the show.

2033
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:34,760
Speaker 1: So I mean, listen, you can do whatever you want

2034
01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:37,160
Speaker 1: with this. Do I give it up? Do you give

2035
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:39,240
Speaker 1: it up? And look, you could give up like your

2036
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:43,719
Speaker 1: squirrel spot if it makes you feel comfortable. But well,

2037
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:46,519
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go bamna get lynch when I go back

2038
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:48,960
Speaker 1: to let me before you say that. I had a

2039
01:46:48,960 --> 01:46:51,800
Speaker 1: guy come up here a couple of podcasts ago Uh

2040
01:46:52,200 --> 01:46:54,920
Speaker 1: Libby Metcalf and her husband Alex gave up a spot,

2041
01:46:55,600 --> 01:46:57,479
Speaker 1: and a dude here at b h A came running

2042
01:46:57,560 --> 01:46:59,200
Speaker 1: up to me and was like, that's where I hunt

2043
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:04,960
Speaker 1: see my things. I learned all my spots from the

2044
01:47:05,520 --> 01:47:09,800
Speaker 1: man who taught me how to, who lives very close

2045
01:47:09,880 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 1: to me. Come over your house, he's here. You'll no

2046
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:18,320
Speaker 1: I the and I don't know that I have a

2047
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:21,120
Speaker 1: longitude in latitude, but what I can tell you is uh,

2048
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:24,840
Speaker 1: for residents in Wyoming, we have an over the counter

2049
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 1: tag um for mule deer, and you can shoot a

2050
01:47:29,960 --> 01:47:32,080
Speaker 1: buck bigger than anything you'll find in Utah in the

2051
01:47:32,120 --> 01:47:36,000
Speaker 1: Wyoming range in your face. Utah leach a lottery tags

2052
01:47:36,280 --> 01:47:39,000
Speaker 1: um and you have to work for it. So giving

2053
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:42,880
Speaker 1: away spots doesn't mean that it's not still eight miles back, guys,

2054
01:47:43,160 --> 01:47:45,160
Speaker 1: straight up, and I am sometimes on my hand and

2055
01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:49,000
Speaker 1: knee curis thing everything as I crawl up there. Um.

2056
01:47:49,960 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 1: But the South Crow Creek, the Salt River Range, that's real.

2057
01:47:56,600 --> 01:47:58,320
Speaker 1: I like that. That's real specific. So I just we'll

2058
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:00,320
Speaker 1: just repeat that so you if you guys are taking notes,

2059
01:48:00,720 --> 01:48:04,400
Speaker 1: it's just like South Crow Creek right is amazing. But

2060
01:48:04,520 --> 01:48:08,120
Speaker 1: this is also the spot, uh where I have been

2061
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:12,040
Speaker 1: in storytelling for b h A. And I told the

2062
01:48:12,120 --> 01:48:14,680
Speaker 1: story about how we went in there and broke a

2063
01:48:14,760 --> 01:48:17,400
Speaker 1: bow and I walked out with a softball sized ankle

2064
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:20,519
Speaker 1: and our tent got trampled by three thousand sheep. And

2065
01:48:21,240 --> 01:48:25,080
Speaker 1: but there's also monster deer in there. Um. But it's

2066
01:48:25,160 --> 01:48:28,200
Speaker 1: it's a it's kind of a challenge, like can you

2067
01:48:28,280 --> 01:48:29,760
Speaker 1: do it? Can you do it? As you can do it?

2068
01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:32,680
Speaker 1: Can you do it? Like? Nice? So we got that.

2069
01:48:33,000 --> 01:48:35,160
Speaker 1: I mean, we got spots right now. And I got

2070
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:38,599
Speaker 1: spots in Montana, Wyoming. I got a spot in Pennsylvania. Dude,

2071
01:48:38,600 --> 01:48:40,439
Speaker 1: I got a lot of places to go. I'll take you.

2072
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:43,400
Speaker 1: Can you do it? I can do it. You gonna

2073
01:48:43,400 --> 01:48:46,320
Speaker 1: go hunt meal deer in the Wyoming range. Unfortunately, for

2074
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:48,360
Speaker 1: like you out of state or people you gotta like

2075
01:48:49,080 --> 01:48:52,640
Speaker 1: put in for a couple of points the regions. Well,

2076
01:48:52,680 --> 01:48:55,240
Speaker 1: now I can't. That's a lot of efforts. It's a

2077
01:48:55,320 --> 01:48:56,800
Speaker 1: lot of effort. I like to people to give me

2078
01:48:56,920 --> 01:49:00,240
Speaker 1: hunts and just I'll take you to these secrets about

2079
01:49:00,400 --> 01:49:02,760
Speaker 1: that I didn't tell you about that has large meal

2080
01:49:02,960 --> 01:49:06,120
Speaker 1: that you could get pretty easy. I like that. That's

2081
01:49:06,120 --> 01:49:07,680
Speaker 1: a good way to be a recurring guest on the

2082
01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:09,840
Speaker 1: Hunting Collection is to be like I'll give you next time,

2083
01:49:09,840 --> 01:49:11,360
Speaker 1: I'll give you another next time, I'll give you the

2084
01:49:11,439 --> 01:49:14,560
Speaker 1: other spot. All right, good, well listen, thank you for

2085
01:49:14,680 --> 01:49:17,000
Speaker 1: what you do, Thanks for being a positive voice for

2086
01:49:17,040 --> 01:49:19,080
Speaker 1: this world. And really like on the ground level, what

2087
01:49:19,200 --> 01:49:21,400
Speaker 1: you do in legislature and what you do is a

2088
01:49:21,439 --> 01:49:25,000
Speaker 1: lobbyists is important, way more important than my talkie talkie

2089
01:49:25,040 --> 01:49:28,479
Speaker 1: show here. Um So, I very much appreciate that. And

2090
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 1: thanks for being open and Canada about you know, women

2091
01:49:30,600 --> 01:49:33,120
Speaker 1: in the outdoors. It's something that will continue to cover

2092
01:49:33,200 --> 01:49:36,160
Speaker 1: on this program and many others. Um So, go follow

2093
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:39,759
Speaker 1: Where can people find you? All right? Well, Wyoming Wildlife

2094
01:49:39,920 --> 01:49:43,200
Speaker 1: dot org is uh the who I work for. Um

2095
01:49:43,280 --> 01:49:48,000
Speaker 1: But then you have Artemis dot n WF dot org UM,

2096
01:49:48,160 --> 01:49:51,559
Speaker 1: n w F for National Wildlife Federation UM. And then

2097
01:49:51,720 --> 01:49:57,559
Speaker 1: I'm on Instagram and Facebook as Jess Johnson or Jess C. Johnson.

2098
01:49:58,040 --> 01:50:05,719
Speaker 1: All right, go follow Jeff. Thank you. That's it. That's

2099
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:09,040
Speaker 1: all another episode of a Hunting Collective in the Books.

2100
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:13,479
Speaker 1: Thanks to Brodie Henderson. Thanks to Jess Johnson for hanging out.

2101
01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:16,760
Speaker 1: I really appreciate them. I really apreciate everybody at b

2102
01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:19,439
Speaker 1: h A, all the members, all the staff, everybody that

2103
01:50:19,520 --> 01:50:22,760
Speaker 1: came out took part in a wonderful weekend empoiseat oh

2104
01:50:23,280 --> 01:50:26,040
Speaker 1: everybody that came to our seminar talking about hunting ethics

2105
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:29,639
Speaker 1: would really appreciate you. It was a great conversation. Sometimes

2106
01:50:29,720 --> 01:50:32,519
Speaker 1: it can seem, um, it seems like it's not so

2107
01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:34,800
Speaker 1: pointed because there isn't going to be a conclusion. But

2108
01:50:34,920 --> 01:50:37,760
Speaker 1: just talking about these ideas and having the conversation I

2109
01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:41,000
Speaker 1: feel is important. But we'll also what you need to

2110
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:45,800
Speaker 1: do here, go to the meat Eater store, meat eater

2111
01:50:46,040 --> 01:50:48,640
Speaker 1: dot com, the up meat eater dot Com. Go to

2112
01:50:48,720 --> 01:50:50,600
Speaker 1: the store. There's all kinds of cool stuff there. We

2113
01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:54,640
Speaker 1: just launched a brand new Aldo Freaking Leopold shirt. The

2114
01:50:54,720 --> 01:50:58,320
Speaker 1: Man is the Father of conservation. He is the writer

2115
01:50:58,439 --> 01:51:00,280
Speaker 1: of some of the best works on concert sation, and

2116
01:51:00,320 --> 01:51:02,600
Speaker 1: now there's a shirt to celebrate them. Here from the

2117
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:06,240
Speaker 1: Hunting Collective. We also got pro nuanced anti bullshit. We've

2118
01:51:06,280 --> 01:51:09,840
Speaker 1: got hoodies, We've got all kinds of stuff there, So

2119
01:51:09,960 --> 01:51:11,760
Speaker 1: go check it out. Go check it out, and write

2120
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:14,519
Speaker 1: us in at th HD at the mediator dot com. Um,

2121
01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:17,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna love it, and we love it. Thanks for

2122
01:51:17,360 --> 01:51:20,360
Speaker 1: joining us. I'm gonna leave you with old number seven.

2123
01:51:20,920 --> 01:51:25,559
Speaker 1: See you, oh number seven, Tennessee whiskey got me dragging

2124
01:51:25,600 --> 01:51:28,719
Speaker 1: in heaven and uh and just stopped. It looks good

2125
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:32,600
Speaker 1: to me. They're gonna have to department to the parade,

2126
01:51:35,000 --> 01:51:45,400
Speaker 1: Oh the fardy farre