1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,639 Speaker 2: Welcome to it could Happen Here, a podcast where by 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 2: my longtime home city of Chicago is preparing for a 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 2: federal occupation. I am your host, Mio Wong, and with 5 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 2: me to talk about what the fuck is going on 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 2: about a thing that at the end of last year, 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: as bad as we thought this was going to be, 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 2: was basically unimaginable. With me talked about this is Raven, 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 2: who's a journalist from the independent outlet Unraveled in Chicago, 10 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 2: which does a lot of really really excellent work on 11 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: the ground reporting on social movements in the city. You're 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 2: putting on the government does a bunch of incredible works 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:43,840 Speaker 2: and some really good stuff on shot spatter. Yeah, Raven, 14 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: welcome to the show. 15 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for such a beautiful intro. 16 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, thanks for doing this. I don't know, like 17 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: I'm a really big fan of Unraveled. I think most 18 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: of the newspapers in Chicago are like just weird right 19 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 2: wing rags, and getting actual good news out if the 20 00:01:01,240 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: city is kind of difficult because it's like. 21 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, we we have a good number now, like Digital 22 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 3: India outlets in the city, but once you get outside 23 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: of Cook Counties, especially you know, the Chicago metro area 24 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 3: is huge, and like, yeah, it's all like pink slime garbage, 25 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 3: like everything's been bought out. They don't have like real 26 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 3: reporters anymore. So it can be a huge challenge to 27 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 3: cover things like just in the collar counties, which is 28 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 3: coincidentally also where a lot of this ice activity might 29 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 3: be happening in the next yep, forty five days, thirty 30 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 3: days over long it lasts. 31 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, so let's I guess from the jump, before we 32 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: get into sort of the kind of long arc of 33 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: ice and the FEDS in in Chicago for the last year, 34 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: let's talk about Trump's thing to send in the National 35 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 2: Guard and stuff the people in the city are really 36 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: concerned about. 37 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you know, there's kind of two things happening simultaneously, right. 38 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 3: Trump is threatening the National Guard, which has been a thing, 39 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 3: Like threatening the National Guard in Chicago has been a 40 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 3: thing with him for like a while, and it can 41 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 3: be very difficult to tease out like what what level 42 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: of it is propaganda and what level of it is 43 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 3: like really happening. Right, But the other more important part 44 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,919 Speaker 3: here is we do know now like conclusively that DHS 45 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 3: is planning a large operation in like Los Angeles style. 46 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 3: So everything that's been happening around Lay for the last 47 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: few months is moving to Chicago. This is what the 48 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 3: chief of Border Patrol has said. You know, he just 49 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 3: put out like a social media video that was saying 50 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 3: they're trading palm trees for skyscrapers and bringing a few 51 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 3: hundred guys with dhs ICE Border patrol to Chicago. So 52 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 3: it's pretty wild. I don't think I've ever seen Border 53 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 3: Patrol in numbers on the ground here in the Great Lakes. 54 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 3: We've always known it's like a thing that could conceivably 55 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 3: happen because we're technically like a border city. Yeah, but 56 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 3: you know, to be staring at in the face now 57 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 3: like it's real, like it's actually happening, it's obviously feels 58 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 3: like a real emergency for our communities. 59 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that's the interesting thing, like talking 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 2: to you and then talking to other people on the ground, 61 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: is that, like the National Guard deployment is what's getting 62 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 2: all of the press right, and people really aren't that 63 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: worried about it, it's worth pointing out. So we're recording 64 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: this on the morning of like Wednesday, September third. Yeah, 65 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: So it's possible that stuff has changed by the time 66 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: this episode goes out like tonight, because the situation is 67 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 2: shifting really rapidly, right, But you know that there's this 68 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 2: whole fight over whether the Texas National Guard is being 69 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 2: deployed here on a federal deployment, But people don't really 70 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 2: seem to be worried about the National Guard, and I 71 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 2: think kind of for good reason. They didn't really. I mean, 72 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 2: they did some protests stuff, I guess, but like they 73 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: mostly kind of are there to make it look like 74 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: there's troops and street right, while ICE in DHS does 75 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: like the most horrific shit. 76 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: Right, that's been sort of the the understanding of what's 77 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 3: happened in Los Angeles, and then in DC it's gone 78 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: a little bit differently, just because they have so many 79 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 3: FEDS already, so they've been able to do a lot 80 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 3: of traffic stops in these little fed tactical teams. So 81 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 3: you'll have like some FBI guys, some DA guys, maybe 82 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 3: like an HSI guy I just read and wappoo the 83 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 3: other day, they've crashed like six cars in DC. I mean, 84 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 3: like it's it's really dangerous that kinds of stops. These 85 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 3: guys are executing their jumpouts. Right. It's not like officer 86 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 3: friend and like pulling you over a license and registration please. 87 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 3: You know, it's like really violent and they're in on 88 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 3: mark cars and they're like trying to suffice people. So 89 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 3: that is you know. Also, what we're expecting to see 90 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 3: alongside like the ice operations is these fed teams crawling 91 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 3: through the city. You know, I don't know when they're 92 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 3: going to be doing what where, but like I said, 93 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 3: the Chicago Land area, you know, the suburb everything around, 94 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: it's very big. Yeah, you know, there's every indication this 95 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 3: isn't going to be centralized just to like downhunt. 96 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: Chicag Yeah, And like I think there's something that's kind 97 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: of hard to understand if you're not from Chicago, but 98 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: like even just the city proper is massive. Yeah, right, 99 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:24,920 Speaker 2: Like it takes like I mean, I haven't driven it 100 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 2: in a long time, but like I think, I think 101 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 2: if you're trying to go from like the top of 102 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 2: like the North Side to like the bottom of the 103 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 2: South Side, that's like hour and a half two hour drive, right, 104 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,000 Speaker 2: It's massive, right, And this. 105 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 3: Naval station where they're basing operations isn't even in the city. 106 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 3: It's two hours north than of different county. Yeah, so 107 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: there are a lot of questions right now. I don't 108 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 3: have the answers. Nobody's gonna know until it starts. But 109 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 3: you know, there are a lot of questions now just 110 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 3: kind of like how far into the city are there 111 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 3: even going to go? You know, it's obviously you know 112 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 3: what we've seen out in Los Angeles with these like 113 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 3: larger like workplaces like car washes and home depot and stuff, 114 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 3: it's really difficult to imagine them executing something like that 115 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 3: in the city. I'm not going to say they couldn't try, 116 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 3: but they would obviously need a lot of backup from 117 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 3: Border patrol. Yeah, to try something like that, even in 118 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 3: the suburbs, which is what we saw in La you know, 119 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 3: that's who showed up those first few days when they 120 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 3: were like tear gassing the fuck out of everybody and 121 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 3: it was just like crazy. You know, that was Border Patrol. 122 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,960 Speaker 3: So what our eyes are on is something like that. 123 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: And to your point about the National Guard and the press, 124 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 3: you know, it's part of the issue is like the politicians, 125 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 3: the electeds, like they can't say no to the fence. 126 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 3: They can't say no to Ice, like Ice is coming, 127 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 3: DHS is coming. No matter what they do, the guard 128 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 3: is a little more of like a political football for them, 129 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 3: and and Pritzker can push back, and there's like you know, 130 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 3: the arguments about sending one states troops into another, and 131 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 3: so there's more legal options, you know, all this stuff, right, 132 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: But the FBI already has field office here, I already 133 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,600 Speaker 3: has field offices here. You know, Like there's there's just 134 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 3: I think also just a disconnect there because of like 135 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 3: the way the news reporting works is like, well, we're 136 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 3: reporting on what the public officials are saying. Governor Pretsker 137 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: did say pretty clearly actually like well DHS is coming. 138 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 3: You know, Ice is going to do these operations and 139 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 3: we don't improve it, but we can't stop it. 140 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think before we get more into that, 141 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 2: I want to pivot to talk about what the presence 142 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: of ICE has been in Chicago already. And I want 143 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 2: to kind of like roll the clock back to right 144 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: before kind of like I think, like the literally the 145 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: weekend before the big confrontations in LA started, there was 146 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 2: a pretty big raid at a check in and a 147 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 2: bunch of stuff happened with that. I was wondering if 148 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: you could talk about that a bit. 149 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was around the time when things popped off 150 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: and early I don't remember precisely, but around then. 151 00:07:57,520 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it was like right before. 152 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, they have these stuck in sights where 153 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 3: people have to go and some of them are on 154 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: like electronic monitoring and some non and they check in 155 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 3: with ICE, and so it was like an ambush, right 156 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 3: Like people showed up and then they were like, oh, 157 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 3: we're actually like kidnapping you. And it was very very 158 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,679 Speaker 3: ugly of course, you know, like agents ripping people away 159 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: from their families and friends. And we had some local 160 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,400 Speaker 3: electeds like trying to get in the way of the van, 161 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 3: and Chicago police of course showed up. And then there 162 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 3: was this whole back and forth over whether the police 163 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 3: really assisted. 164 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 2: ICE or not. 165 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: And I mean they were there and they did crowd control. 166 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, they definitely did. 167 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 3: Like you know, it's it's very interesting what's happening with 168 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 3: CPD and ICE right now, because like, at the end 169 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,600 Speaker 3: of the day, cops are lazy above all else too write, 170 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 3: you know, and so there's this kind of tension of like, well, 171 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 3: we support what ICE is doing and ideologically, like, of 172 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 3: course the cops are aligned with ICE, but they also 173 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 3: like don't want to get out of their car, you know, 174 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: so it's kind of any any excuse they have not 175 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: to do something, they will take. So it's not that 176 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 3: we've seen them assisting with like enforcement removal operations, but 177 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 3: of course if there's a protest, they're going to show 178 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 3: up and police that. And then also, like data sharing 179 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 3: is a huge issue there. I mean, like with fusion 180 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 3: centers and with like block license plate data visas everything. 181 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 3: There's just the information is is so porous between local 182 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 3: cops and the FEDS that it's just kind of absurd 183 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 3: on a space to even think that they're like not 184 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 3: sharing information. Some of these cops are on task forces 185 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 3: and they have like group chats together, you know, with 186 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 3: DA and FBI agents, right, so it's all it's all connected, 187 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 3: it's all porous. They're already working with the Feds, you know, 188 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 3: it's just they can't visibly be seen assisting with immigration enforcement. 189 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 3: But yeah, that was that was a really stramotizing day 190 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 3: for community. Like an organ er here who was well 191 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 3: known was taken and she was a grandmother, so she 192 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 3: had a family here too. You know, so it was brutal. 193 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 3: And then around that time that that was happening, also 194 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 3: I started escalating russ at the Immigration Court downtown, which 195 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 3: went on for a while and ultimately was stopped by 196 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 3: protesters continuing to show up and just have a presence there. 197 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: You know, these guys are terrified of being docks terrified. 198 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: I mean, they just they really don't want to be filmed. 199 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 3: And it's been a very different situation here in our 200 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 3: courthouse versus New York's because I've seen so much photography 201 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 3: out of the New York Immigration Court. For whatever reason, 202 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 3: they allowed photos there, but they don't inside of ours. 203 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 3: But you know, protesters started showing up there. I mean, 204 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 3: we had been their documentary what. 205 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: Was going on. 206 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 3: Slowly people started trickling in, showing up and protesting, and 207 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 3: eventually people started then taking it to like actually walking 208 00:10:56,320 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 3: the driveway that they were using a private parking garage 209 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 3: belonging to the building, and so they were like going 210 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: underground and then like waiting and then using the great elevator. 211 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 3: It was like the whole operation. But ultimately the building 212 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 3: put their flick on and ban them. You know, they 213 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 3: got a lot of complaints from tenants. People didn't like 214 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 3: that the protests were going on shore, but people also 215 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 3: were like in the building, people were ICE using our 216 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 3: frad Yeah, yeah, yeah. 217 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,959 Speaker 2: Used the power against them, deploy every weapon. 218 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 3: Exactly, exactly exactly. It was. It's kind of like, uh, 219 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 3: you know, diversity of tactics thing there where It's like, 220 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:39,199 Speaker 3: the people who owned property in this building, aren't you 221 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 3: super aligned with the like people trying to block ICE stands, 222 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: But at that moment they joined Yeah, and you know, 223 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 3: so so that that was happening. And like while all 224 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 3: of this is happening, of course ICE is still doing 225 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 3: more dispersed traffic stops, arresting people at their homes. It's 226 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 3: it's been happening. It's happening all over out in Elgin, 227 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 3: out in Waukegan, which is up by the base of operations, 228 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 3: you know, where they're setting up all of these operations 229 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 3: for what's coming this week. Waukegan, North Chicago and that 230 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 3: area of the county. There are a ton of imfants 231 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 3: and they're not surrounded by necessarily like super progressive, super 232 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 3: friendly people. Some can be I mean, the politics in 233 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 3: the North Shore, it's very like purple like it's weird. 234 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 3: It's like you can have super progressive people, but then 235 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:29,559 Speaker 3: also like it can be out in the boonie somewhere 236 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 3: you'll see like Trump science. So it's it's not as 237 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 3: sympathetic as being in Enoughtown Chicago for sure. Yeah, and 238 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 3: so there's a lot of concern from people up around 239 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 3: the base about what's going to happen in those communities 240 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 3: because there's much less coverage, too much less eyes on them. 241 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: Yep. 242 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: I want to I want to talk more about sort 243 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 2: of what enforcement has been looking like in outlying areas 244 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 2: and what it's going to look like. But first we 245 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: need to go to ads and we are back, so 246 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: I wanna I kind of I want to follow the 247 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 2: train that you've been on about the stuff in the 248 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,440 Speaker 2: center of the city versus the stuff in the outlying 249 00:13:19,480 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: areas and across Chicagoland in general, which is also just massive, 250 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: unbelievably large geographic area. It has unbelievably large numbers of people, 251 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 2: and also the concentrations get way smaller really quickly, And 252 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:37,599 Speaker 2: I think, I don't know, it seems like the resistance 253 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 2: inside of the city proper had been pretty effective in 254 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 2: a lot of ways, just in the sense of like 255 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 2: shutting down the courthouse raids for the most part. But 256 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: what have things looked like up near like Wakegan and like, yeah, 257 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 2: in the sort of outlying areas in terms of like 258 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: resistance and in terms of cooperation. 259 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've seen videos out of those places, 260 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 3: you know, really harrowing scenes like traffic stops where they're 261 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 3: separating people from their families, showing up at people's homes. 262 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 3: Usually what's happening is we're not hearing you got it 263 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 3: until after the facts. And in the city there are 264 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 3: like quid response groups going by different neighborhoods. But I 265 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 3: think in general sometimes it just doesn't feel very rapid 266 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 3: because it's people are are vetting, they're verifying. There's a 267 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: lot of false alarms. You know, there's a lot going on. 268 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 3: So that's what I've seen that's happened out out in 269 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 3: the Burns. You know, it's kind of, like I said, 270 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 3: kind of a black hole for news out there too. 271 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 3: It's not always easy to get information. You know. We 272 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 3: also had a case of like an ice agent detaining 273 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 3: a woman with her child at like a well, it 274 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 3: wasn't an agent, it was a contractor contact are working 275 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 3: for Ice detaining an arrest tee out at an hotel 276 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 3: by Ohare Airport. That's something that that people aren't concerned 277 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 3: about in a more general sense too right now, because 278 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 3: we actually literally just this morning, we're looking at a 279 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 3: letter from the mayor of broad View, Illinois, which is 280 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 3: where our processing center is, outlining how they're going to 281 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: be operational seven days a week for the next forty 282 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 3: five days, which to me implies like thousands of arrests 283 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 3: potentially happening, and that facility is not set up. It's 284 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 3: not a long term detention center. Yea Overnight detention is 285 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 3: banned in Illinois, so people have been kept there longer 286 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 3: than they technically are allowed to even with like without 287 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 3: some huge surge happening. So it kind of thinking about 288 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 3: what's potentially coming and then using that center, it kind 289 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 3: of follows that, yeah, there could be more contractors keeping 290 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 3: people in hotels like dispersed around, like there's just not 291 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 3: enough space at that facility to keep up with that. 292 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: And so because there are also in the like ice 293 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 3: logistics chain, because like people have to be they can't 294 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 3: be kept here long term, so they have to go 295 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 3: to Gary Airport to fly out somewhere or detention center 296 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 3: in Indiana or Wisconsin or Michigan. 297 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: So I guess there's a couple of things, kinds of 298 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,400 Speaker 2: sort of resistant stuff I want to ask about. I remember, 299 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 2: like got back in like twenty eighteen. I remember there 300 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 2: was a bunch of efforts to like block deportation flights 301 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 2: out of the airport. Has up been still going no, 302 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: I mean. 303 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 3: There was a protest at Gary Airport very early on 304 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:36,960 Speaker 3: in the year. Actually it was like right after Trump 305 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 3: was inaugurated. I think I know a photographer was arrested 306 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 3: some protesters. It was really random. It was like towards 307 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 3: the end of the protest, Gary police just decided to 308 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 3: like grab and arrest the few people. And since then, 309 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 3: I have not heard of any more protests or attempt 310 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 3: or attempts at intervention at Gary Airport. I mean, obviously 311 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 3: it's not Chicago thin Gary, so you know, the smaller 312 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 3: community there people will have to travel to. I don't 313 00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 3: know if deportation, if any deportation flights are leaving from O'Hare. 314 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 3: I don't believe so, but don't quote me on that. 315 00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 3: I'm not sure. 316 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's ALTI like I feel like O'Hair is 317 00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 2: kind of a soft target for that in the sense of, like, 318 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 2: I mean, it's annoying to get there, but like there 319 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: is just a rail line that runs it directly into 320 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 2: O'Hare and you can flood it with a bunch of 321 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 2: people pretty easily, like what happened to like the beginning 322 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 2: of Trump. 323 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 3: One, Right, we haven't seen anything like that yet. 324 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But it's also like I wonder if they're 325 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 2: still thinking about that in terms of like the flight logistics, 326 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 2: in terms of flight running stuff primarily through Gary. 327 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 3: Oh I see, yeah, that might be why. 328 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. The other thing I'm wondering about is like, Okay, 329 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 2: so I guess it looks like right now with the 330 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 2: information we have, that they're planning to run their operations 331 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,040 Speaker 2: out of that military base. But everything that I've seen 332 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 2: has been talking about like the National Guard operating out 333 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 2: of that base. But do we know where the FEDS 334 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 2: are supecially operating out of. 335 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 3: The Feds are operating out of the base. The National 336 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 3: Guard will will potentially operate out of the base if 337 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 3: they come, but we don't have a lot of details 338 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 3: on like un National Guard employment. And the other thing 339 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 3: to keep in mind is like the National Guard are 340 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 3: all younger people. Typically is a lot of young people 341 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 3: and they have like families and things. So that kind 342 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 3: of information, like a deployment right of like platoon or 343 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 3: several platoons whatever, the worst of National Guard, it's not 344 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 3: going to stay secret for very long, right like, because 345 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 3: we would know. So I have not seen anything yet 346 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 3: as a twelve thirty noon on Wednesday indicating that the 347 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 3: National Guard specifically has rolled into that base. That could 348 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 3: change at any point, you know, I don't know what's 349 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 3: happened in the last hour that I have checked the news. 350 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 3: But what we do know is that the DHS Operation 351 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 3: Customs and Border Protection, the FEDS that are coming, they 352 00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 3: are setting up abasive operations at that naval station, and 353 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: the Navy said that they denied them lodging and that 354 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 3: they have to stay elsewhere like hotel. 355 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 2: Wise. 356 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 3: I don't know how that will work because that's like 357 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 3: several hundred people. I guess they're going to have to 358 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 3: disperse a lot around the suburbs in order to do that. 359 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 3: And I don't know the reason for the denial for 360 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 3: the lodging. It could simply be they literally don't have space. 361 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: You know, people are actually like training there, like military 362 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 3: and Navy and stuff. It's not like it's just empty, 363 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: so they might not have had capacity for that, but 364 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,199 Speaker 3: supposedly they're going to be doing office space there. I 365 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 3: think the letter also mentioned they can do laundry there, 366 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:49,199 Speaker 3: emails like stuff like that. But but yeah, I mean 367 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 3: that's that's like something that of course people have eyes 368 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 3: on because if you can locate a hotel where people 369 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 3: are saying, you know, that's like a pressure point. 370 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I think that's an interesting point that 371 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 2: comes back to something you were saying earlier, which is 372 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: like it really looks like this is a lot of 373 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 2: this is going to be targeted on the places close 374 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,959 Speaker 2: to the base, just because like if they're really like 375 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,679 Speaker 2: two hours out from the city, it's like pretty difficult 376 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 2: to do raids further right into the city just onto 377 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,720 Speaker 2: logistical level, and just like I don't know, just just 378 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 2: in terms of like dealing with Chicago traffic. 379 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: It's like. 380 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 3: I don't want to exclude it as a possibility. 381 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely possible, but it's like I. 382 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:40,719 Speaker 3: Just think when we look at inner city or urban policing, 383 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 3: there are certain tactics that like local police use that 384 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 3: we see the FEDS also using right like these unmarked cars, 385 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 3: more covert operations, trying to move really quickly and get 386 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 3: in it and out because they know that it's such 387 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 3: a denser area and if rapid response shows up, people say, 388 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 3: showing up, then can get unsafe you know, for them 389 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 3: as cops. And so we just we do know that 390 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 3: those tactics work. We know that this is how they've 391 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 3: been doing operations so far. With more DHS agents and 392 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 3: more customs and border production backup, could they try for 393 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 3: something bigger in the city, I mean yes, Like we 394 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 3: don't want to rule that out, trust me, Like it 395 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,199 Speaker 3: definitely could happen. But I think given the numbers that 396 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 3: they are trying to reach at this point, what we 397 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 3: have to prepare for is being really dispersed and just 398 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 3: kind of everywhere, you know, like and like that traffic 399 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 3: like you mentioned, you know, it's yeah, it's like obviously 400 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 3: if they're driving like three in the morning or something, 401 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 3: they're not going to face as much traffic up ninety 402 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 3: ninety four. But like, yeah, there's also the like covertness 403 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 3: of it too, Like you can't just drive a bunch 404 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,800 Speaker 3: of military vehicles down the highway for an hour and 405 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 3: a half and not be sighted or spotted right like, 406 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:02,640 Speaker 3: so then you'd be giving like you're giving people more 407 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 3: opportunities potentially intervene. So I don't know. I mean I 408 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 3: think like we'll see them in the city for sure, 409 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 3: we'll see them in the burbs for sure. Whether or 410 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 3: not we're going to see like teams of like border patrol, 411 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:18,199 Speaker 3: you know, in like full riot kit marching through like 412 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 3: Pilsen that I don't know. I think it's something that 413 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,640 Speaker 3: probably they want to do. I'm sure those dudes would 414 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 3: be amped as fuck to like, you know, be in 415 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 3: downtown Chicago, like harassing people, you know, beating on people. 416 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 3: But from an operational security standpoint, like for them, it 417 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 3: is like so dangerous. 418 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I. 419 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,159 Speaker 3: Just I don't know. 420 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 2: So so, speaking speaking of dangers, we're going to go 421 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 2: to these ads and then we're going to come back 422 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: and talk about Oh god, is rumors the right word 423 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 2: to describe something that the governor is saying about the 424 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 2: targeting of the Mexican Independence State Parade? 425 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 3: But maybe not rumor, maybe maybe just statement. 426 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I will, we'll figure we'll figure out the verbiage 427 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 2: when we returned. 428 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, we are back. 429 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 2: So one of the things that Governor Pritzker has said 430 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 2: is that Stephen Miller, I'm gonna I'm gonna read this quote. 431 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 2: This is an NBC. I'm gonna read this quote, just 432 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,480 Speaker 2: that Pritzker said at a conference, we have reason to 433 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: believe that Stephen Miller chose a month of September to 434 00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 2: come to Chicago because of celebrations around Mexican Independence Day 435 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 2: that happened here every year. And yeah, you know, he 436 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 2: further said, it breaks my heart to report that we 437 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 2: have been told ICE will try and disrupt community picnics 438 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: and peaceful parades. He said, Let's be clear, the terror 439 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 2: and cruelty is the point, not the safety of anyone 440 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 2: living here. So yeah, I guess I want to start 441 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 2: by talking a little bit about these parades themselves, because 442 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 2: they are absolutely massive event in Chicago. There's like a 443 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 2: big one in Pilsen, but also like I'm just all 444 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 2: over the city. There's just a bunch of people driving 445 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:12,119 Speaker 2: around with Mexican flags, rocks, There's people celebrating. It's really cool. 446 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, it turns into more of like a like a 447 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 3: widespread like car caravan thing. 448 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 2: Ye, there'll be a lot. Yeah, like the you know. 449 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,159 Speaker 3: I like, here's the thing. I know, traffic jams are 450 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 3: annoying to like anybody, but when it's in celebration of something. 451 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, it rocks. Like take the train that day, 452 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 2: it's great. 453 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 4: I mean, I understand the arguments for like, well, ambulances 454 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 4: need to get through things like that, but I think 455 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 4: there's a lot of power in people taking the streets 456 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 4: and like, you know, the cars are just the easiest 457 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 4: way to get massive amounts of people around. And then 458 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 4: there's a lot of like there's a street culture here 459 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 4: around like street takeovers too. And this happens outside of 460 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 4: like Mexican Independence Day, where like some some people will 461 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 4: take over an intersection and do donuts send and set 462 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 4: off fireworks. 463 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 3: And like yeah, yell at the cops and whatever. 464 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 5: Right, it's fun, it's cool, it's it's goods like that 465 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,919 Speaker 5: happens in cities, and I think when it comes to 466 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 5: living in a city, it's like, yeah, you you're trading 467 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 5: certain things for other things and and and stuff like 468 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 5: that happens. And so with Mexican Independence, say, it's like 469 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 5: we we we can have like sustained nights where that 470 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 5: is just going on and on, like the loop will 471 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 5: be jammed up, like everyone will be jammed up. And 472 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 5: of course there's like the public safety people who like 473 00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,120 Speaker 5: whine about it and and you. 474 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 2: Know, yeah, this is also like a big like like 475 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: white people of the city get really fucking pissed about this, 476 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 2: like every year vers like oh no, no, no, no, look 477 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 2: at the Mexicans. Like it's just like and like like 478 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 2: the most racist shit you've ever heard in your entire life. 479 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: And there's people sort of below that who will couch 480 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: it and like, oh, public safety, and I'm gonna be 481 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,479 Speaker 2: really fucking mean to these people, which is like if 482 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,719 Speaker 2: you're if you're pissed off at a bunch of people 483 00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 2: like basically doing their own parade, you are not fit 484 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 2: to live in a city, Like get the fuck out 485 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: of here, Like, fuck off, go back to the suburbs, 486 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 2: you dip shits. You're fucking losers. You're not fit for 487 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 2: urban life, like you light dick the shit rules. 488 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:29,119 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's yeah, the reaction to it is like so 489 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 6: so over the top, and it's the kind of thing 490 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 6: where like when when Trump is like talking about the 491 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 6: National Guard and responding to crime in Chicago or disorder, 492 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 6: you know that's the kind of. 493 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 3: Thing I could see him like ordering them into respond to, 494 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 3: you know, especially if there's like there's like a shooting 495 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 3: or something that happens towards the tail end of one 496 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 3: of these celebrations, which again, you know, it's like that 497 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 3: that's a risk anytime large amounts of people gather anywhere 498 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 3: in our personal violence freaking out right, like again, is 499 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 3: thing that happens, and the direct cause of it is 500 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 3: never like people partying. The direct cause of it is 501 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 3: usually like somebody's that a beat with somebody, or somebody 502 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,159 Speaker 3: drank too much and lost impulse control, you know, whatever 503 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 3: the reason might be. Yeah, So I think that is 504 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,959 Speaker 3: like I think that's what Pritzker is alluding to. It's 505 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 3: kind of like the car caravan and stuff when he says, 506 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 3: like Stephen Miller is bringing ice to interrupt family picnics, 507 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 3: Like I don't I don't know where he's getting that information, Like, 508 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 3: I don't know that that is like specifically going to happen. 509 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 3: You know, I think given what we've seen out in LA, 510 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 3: unless I've missed anything, it doesn't seem like they've attacked 511 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 3: any like festivals or like like public gatherings like that, 512 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 3: Like in a direct way. 513 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: You know. 514 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 3: I think like logistically it's just maybe not as easy 515 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 3: to necessarily like grab people with questionable immigration status at 516 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. And if you go to like 517 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,320 Speaker 3: a place where you know, like the car wash or wherever, 518 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 3: they have intel that it's like undocumented people are working here, 519 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 3: it makes more sense. So I don't want to rule 520 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 3: out that something like that could happen, but I think 521 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 3: I think there's a whether it happens or not. It's 522 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,120 Speaker 3: like part of it is also the intention is to 523 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 3: have this chilling effect, like to make people afraid to 524 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 3: celebrate or come out, to cause that terror. You know. 525 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 3: It's kind of like we had a situation a couple 526 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 3: months ago where some FEDS who claimed they were with 527 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 3: like a financial crimes task force. It wasn't even ice, 528 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,159 Speaker 3: but I don't know what they were doing, and they 529 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 3: were meeting up at a boat house parking lot in 530 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 3: Humboldt Park like a week before all these cultural celebrations 531 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 3: in the area, and people got really freaked out because 532 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 3: it was just like, what the fuck are you guys doing, 533 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 3: And they like went into the museum and were like 534 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 3: questioning workers and asking you the bathroom and I mean 535 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 3: just being assholes, it sounds like. And then they laughed, 536 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 3: and then there were like all these questions swirling about, 537 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 3: like well what was this, Like were they seeking intel 538 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 3: before these fests? And you know, keep made sure to 539 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 3: like we wanted, we wanted to still have these fasts, 540 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 3: but we want people to show up and even bigger numbers, 541 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 3: like powering numbers. Everybody show up, and that's what happens. 542 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 3: And you know, they didn't attack the fest, and you 543 00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 3: know that was a really weird situation because it wasn't 544 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 3: ice and we didn't know what was going on. But 545 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 3: I think ultimately, like yeah, giving in and like staying 546 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,040 Speaker 3: home and refusing to show up obviously just plays right 547 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 3: into their hands. 548 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:29,959 Speaker 2: And I wanted to kind of pivot a little bit 549 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 2: from this into the way that Pritzker has sort of 550 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: been framing this, where he's talking about how if anyone 551 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 2: throws a sandwich at the guard, this is going to 552 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 2: be used as like the excuse to do a crackdown, 553 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 2: and like I think, yeah, they're gonna they're gonna do 554 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 2: the crackdown anyways, Like I don't think that's like, I. 555 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 3: Mean, this is the central kind of point of conflict. 556 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 3: I think in like a lot of movement space discussions 557 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,240 Speaker 3: right now too, especially among kind of like older liberals 558 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 3: and like the young generation. And part of it is 559 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,800 Speaker 3: is like, yeah, there's this insistence that well, he's looking 560 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 3: for a reason to send in the National Guards, so 561 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 3: don't give him more. But it's like border patrol is 562 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 3: the reason. Yeah, you know, like they're going to show up. 563 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,959 Speaker 3: And I don't know how it's gonna go down, if 564 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 3: it's going to be walking again, if it's going to 565 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 3: be in Chicago, whatever is going to happen. But if 566 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 3: somebody throws a water bottle at those DHS agents, that's 567 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 3: enough of a reason, you know for them to say 568 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 3: there's there's unrest, like and who triggered that? The cops? 569 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, and like it's CPD, Like I have I have 570 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 2: watched CPD do this ship to people where nothing happened, right, 571 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,280 Speaker 2: like it was just people standing there. 572 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 3: And you know, right, our Attorney General said the same 573 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:48,480 Speaker 3: thing in a statement last night, like make sure you 574 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 3: protest peacefully within the law. The Cook County Board President 575 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 3: Tony Prokwinkle said this money still around you, No, I 576 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 3: mean all the like you know, Illinois Democratic God, big 577 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 3: dog people like they're. 578 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: All, yeah, all the machine mother fighting the same thing. 579 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 3: I mean, like honestly, mayorv. Johnson kind of was a 580 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 3: little more fiery in his rhetoric, but he's still only 581 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 3: going to go so far, you know, like they're politician. 582 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, they can't. 583 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 3: They're not going to come out and say like, oh, 584 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 3: that's physically resist ice. I think we all w yeah, 585 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 3: but it is like it is a very dangerous way 586 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 3: to frame resistance, like to say, yeah, well, don't provoke him. 587 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 3: You know. It's kind of like living with an abuser 588 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 3: or a bully and then blaming somebody for fighting back. 589 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think there's also there's really it creates 590 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 2: really changers and hammocks on the ground. I mean, like 591 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 2: I still remember, like one of the things I'm sort 592 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 2: of haunted by from this from twenty twenty was in 593 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: Atlantic or someone like the person who burned the Wendy's Down. Yeah, 594 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 2: there was like a whole there was like a whole 595 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 2: thing where people were like, this is a federal infiltrator 596 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,400 Speaker 2: and they in order to the Feds, which doesn't make 597 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: any sense, by the way, Like if your logic is 598 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: this person is a FED and we turn them over 599 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 2: to the FEDS. Nonsensical, but like this, this is the 600 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 2: thing you see a lot in these kinds of protests, 601 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 2: Like people will just like hand people over to the FEDS. 602 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: And then it turned out that that she was the 603 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 2: girlfriend of of a fucking guy the police had shot. Yeah, 604 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 2: and that shit just like happens. Yeah, And I don't know, 605 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 2: like that's like, that's like the consequence of this O 606 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 2: this kind of stuff is like these people, the peace 607 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 2: of police people feel like they are in power to 608 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 2: hand people over to the actual police. And I just 609 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 2: want to sort of like take a second to talk 610 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 2: to like directly to people who are listening to this 611 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 2: who agree with this stuff, which is okay if you 612 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 2: are facing a fascist regime, right, regardless of whether you 613 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,760 Speaker 2: agree with what someone is doing or not, do you 614 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 2: think it's a good idea to hand them over to 615 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,240 Speaker 2: the lead, to the legal executors of that regime? Like 616 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 2: would you would you hand someone over to the SS 617 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: because they resisted the SS know what you didn't approve of? No, 618 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 2: what are we doing here? 619 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: Right? 620 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 2: I don't know? And I think this ties back to 621 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 2: something from we're talking about the beginning of the week 622 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: of like the extent to which people have become convinced 623 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 2: that like the ICE agents are all like proud boys 624 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: or something, because they can't imagine the institutions that they 625 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 2: had supported for so long, right, suddenly being fascist and 626 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: it's like no, actually, like these organizations have always bent 627 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 2: this way, and they're they're organs of the state, which 628 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 2: means they're going to be subverted to enforcing the regime 629 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 2: of fascism, right. 630 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 3: And you know, I think I think a lot of 631 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 3: people who kind of and I'm not talking about the politicians, 632 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 3: but like regular people who kind of share in this 633 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 3: sentiment of like they're scared. They don't want to provoke 634 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 3: or like make things worse. You know, I think their 635 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 3: their hearts are in the right place, Like they're coming 636 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 3: from a place of like, well, we just don't want 637 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 3: people to get arrested. We want people to be safe. 638 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,920 Speaker 3: Like I think by and large, that's the motivation. But yeah, 639 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 3: it's just kind of like a very shallow under standing 640 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 3: of like how resistance actually looks and works in real life. 641 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 3: There's also just like a worry for a lot of 642 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 3: people that like, well, that kind of stuff might endanger 643 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,280 Speaker 3: others who want to show up with kids or families, 644 00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 3: and I think there just needs to be like a 645 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 3: separation in space. Obviously, not every protest or every resistance 646 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:23,200 Speaker 3: is for everyone, but at the end of the day, 647 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 3: like some of these discussions kind of just fall to 648 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 3: the wayside once things get to a certain point, because like, yeah, 649 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 3: if border patrol rolls through your town, you're you're not 650 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 3: gonna be able to control how everyone responds to that. Yeah, 651 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 3: like that that's a point at which you can see 652 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:48,799 Speaker 3: a more spontaneous response. And and so like this sort 653 00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 3: of like top down movement organizer level like control of 654 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 3: like the protests and how it's going to go kind 655 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,200 Speaker 3: of falls apart anyway, because by that point, like no 656 00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 3: one's in control of any. 657 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a it's a bunch. It's a 658 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,439 Speaker 2: bunch of people running out of our houses being like fuck, 659 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 2: fuck the fucking like the immigration authorities, right, you know. 660 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 2: And I don't know. That's the thing that gives me 661 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 2: hope in the situation is that, like I'm going to 662 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 2: retreat to the metaphysical level for a second, where like 663 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,080 Speaker 2: one of the things I don't know almost spiritually that 664 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,439 Speaker 2: I believe in is cities that cities are more than 665 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 2: sort of some of their parts. Yeah, and obviously like 666 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,880 Speaker 2: they're they're broken down into all of these things, and 667 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,120 Speaker 2: you know, like like they're like there's something there right 668 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 2: in Chicago is something that I believe in, and I 669 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 2: believe in the people there, and I believe in their 670 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 2: capacity to resist this and to drive these people out 671 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 2: because they can be driven out. And you know, with 672 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 2: with enough organization and enough spontaneity and enough cost imposts 673 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 2: on their logistical operations, they can be ran out of 674 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 2: a city. Yeah. I think the power of a city 675 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 2: it's not something that's clear until it's manifested, and you 676 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 2: never know when it's going to manifest, but when it does. 677 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 2: If you look at the entire federal deployment, even if 678 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,480 Speaker 2: they bringing the National Guard, like we're talking about less 679 00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 2: than three thousand people, there are millions of people in 680 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 2: the city. 681 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 3: Right. 682 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 2: This is a fucking flea in an ocean, and the 683 00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 2: flea is relying on the waves staying calm so it 684 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 2: doesn't get drowned. And this is the thing that can happen. 685 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 2: These people can be ran out of cities, they can 686 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 2: be chased out, their operations can be made impossible, they 687 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 2: can be rendered impotent, and they can be made to retreat. 688 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 2: And you know, that's just the thing I'll say, is 689 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 2: it like the experience of watching these people break and run, 690 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:49,120 Speaker 2: because they will break and run. They can and they 691 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: will and you can do it is the most amazing 692 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 2: feeling in the entire world, because you know, however powerful 693 00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 2: they look, they are beatable and they know and that's 694 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,399 Speaker 2: why they operate with this sort of you know, these 695 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 2: like fear shock tactics because they know that if you're 696 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 2: not afraid of them, they can be defeated. 697 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 3: There have always been more of us than there are 698 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 3: of them. 699 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's always. 700 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,800 Speaker 3: Been true, and they do rule by fear, and Chicago 701 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 3: will fight back. And there's so much knowledge and history 702 00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 3: here of our urban black and brown communities resisting the police. 703 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 3: Even to this day. I see on TikTok every night 704 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,759 Speaker 3: videos of crowds hassling the cops or pushing them out 705 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 3: of their hood. 706 00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,400 Speaker 2: I mean, like, this is it's amazing. 707 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,240 Speaker 3: Happening right now. There are communities who do this work 708 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 3: right now. The schallenge, of course, remains building solidarity across 709 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 3: the borders of the neighborhoods. 710 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't think this is an insurmountable thing. 711 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 4: No. 712 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 2: I have never been in a place where where people 713 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,279 Speaker 2: fly the flag of their fucking city that you like, 714 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 2: it's not real. 715 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 3: We're basically a small nation state at this point, So 716 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 3: this is going to get really weird really fast. 717 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like, I don't know, like the US's 718 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,080 Speaker 2: record of military occupations is not good and we can 719 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:24,760 Speaker 2: hand them another l Yeah. So, Raven, is there anything 720 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 2: else that you want to say? And also where can 721 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 2: people find your work? 722 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 3: Nothing else to say? Our work is who've mostly even 723 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 3: posting on Blue Sky honestly, which I always like kind 724 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,040 Speaker 3: of cringe, But we just you do a lot of 725 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,480 Speaker 3: live reporting. It's the only functional way to do it. 726 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:43,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's really good. By the way, this is like, 727 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 2: it's it's a kind of coverage that I think is 728 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 2: becoming more and more important as things go on, and 729 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 2: it's really the only way right now to get good 730 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 2: on the ground coverage of people of how these actions 731 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 2: are actually unfolding. And it rocks I've I mean, we've 732 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,000 Speaker 2: we've been there together at events at protests before, and 733 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 2: like I could, I could I could personally vouch for 734 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 2: the coverage being good and yeah, yeah, and it's also like, 735 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 2: I mean, we have a lot of people on this show, 736 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 2: but like it really matters when the people who are 737 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 2: covering a social movement are people who actually are in 738 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 2: them and understand how they work and like have been 739 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 2: in these places, and so yeah, I think it's I 740 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 2: think it's really really important work. And I think people 741 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,399 Speaker 2: should go support y'all because it's it's great and it's 742 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 2: going to be more and more necessary as the occupation unfolds. 743 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 3: As the occupation unfolds, what a what a bleak, what 744 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:47,680 Speaker 3: a what a terrible world? But another world is possible. 745 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:48,840 Speaker 3: That's the most important. 746 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, remember, yeah, And the only way to do 747 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 2: it is by building it, and you can do that 748 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:57,240 Speaker 2: right now. 749 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 3: I also do think a lot about too, how like 750 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,319 Speaker 3: the first well not the first police uprising, but like 751 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 3: kind of the the opening of this like era of 752 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 3: what's going on was the George Floyd Uprising, which didn't 753 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 3: happen in Great Lakes in the Midwest, in Mineapolist. Yeah, 754 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 3: I think there is there's something about this legion specifically, 755 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 3: we're generally not like the first to pop off just 756 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 3: because one of as many people as in New York 757 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 3: or Los Angeles. But there's such a rich history of 758 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 3: like resistance to the police here. I mean, you had 759 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 3: Ferguson in Missouri, which is like kind of Midwest, kind 760 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 3: of South, but like these communities have such a strong 761 00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 3: history of norm what it's like to live as like 762 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,200 Speaker 3: sun downtowns too, and some of them still are with 763 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,720 Speaker 3: these like majority of white police departments. So it's it'll 764 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:52,439 Speaker 3: be something to watch how things unhold here specifically. 765 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the uprising in Chicago was like one of 766 00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,799 Speaker 2: the mission times anywhere in the country. Like they ran 767 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 2: the cops out of the center of the city, like 768 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 2: they they lost control for days of like the giant 769 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 2: shopping district in the middle of the city. That is 770 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 2: like the thing that like the Chicago business glitzy self 771 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 2: image is like based off of They just lost it 772 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 2: fully because people ran them out, and you know we 773 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 2: did it to them once, we could do it again. 774 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and I think public opinion against ICE is 775 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 3: much worse than like CPD. I mean, like not that 776 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 3: public opinion against CPD is great, but obviously things with 777 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 3: ICE are reaching like a fever pitch right now. 778 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, people hate them. 779 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know you're not. I don't know if 780 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,520 Speaker 3: there's ever been an occupying army that people didn't hate. 781 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 3: But like, it's just not going to go well for 782 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,359 Speaker 3: you when the locals hate you, like, it's just not 783 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:50,919 Speaker 3: it not going to go well. 784 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think you know. The history, as said before, 785 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,719 Speaker 2: was the history of American occupations is littered with defeats. 786 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,360 Speaker 2: Fucking hand them in other one Amen. 787 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:07,800 Speaker 3: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 788 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,000 Speaker 3: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 789 00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 3: coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 790 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:18,359 Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 791 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,720 Speaker 3: now find sources for it Could Happen Here, listed directly 792 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 3: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.