WEBVTT - Does Trash Talking Really Work? 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.400 Guess what, mango? What's that? Will? So, if you heard 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:06.400 about Victor, he's this trash talking robot. There's a trash 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:10.240 talking robot. Yeah. So he was designed at Carnegie Mellon 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:12.959 University and and the point was for people to play 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:16.239 scrabble with a robot. So the engineers wanted people to 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:18.760 keep coming back to play with him, and so they 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:21.279 decided to make him, you know, like not very good 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.160 at it. And the only words in his vocabulary were 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:28.360 lifted from a Sherlock Holmes short story. Also, the scientist 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:30.760 thought it would be funny to make him really moody. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.720 So when he starts losing, he just gets all sarcastic 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.600 on him. So what type of stuff is he saying? Oh, 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.360 he's got some really good stuff. He'll say stuff like, um, 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:41.800 this isn't golf. You're supposed to be trying for a 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:46.199 high score? How goes that? And that's that's actually when 0:00:46.200 --> 0:00:49.239 he's a little bit more confident, But mostly he'll just 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:52.479 razue and question whether you're actually cheating, because you know, 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:54.920 of course he doesn't believe a human brain is capable 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.640 of coming up with good words. I love this idea 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:01.200 of like a robot swore loser. Yeah, and he he 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:05.199 actually also blames his tiles a lot too. According to engineers, 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.440 it's way more satisfying to play against someone who's cocky, 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.960 but isn't actually that good. And one of the surprising 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.600 things about it is that beating a trash talker makes 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:18.080 people want to come back and beat him again. But 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:20.680 learning about Victor made me wonder, you know, is there 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.039 an art to trash talking? Are there techniques athletes used 0:01:24.040 --> 0:01:26.920 to block it out? And does it really psych out 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.920 your opponent? So that's what today's episode is all about. 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:53.840 Let's dive in. Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:55.800 Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.880 Man Guesh Ticketer and sitting behind that soundproof glass try 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:02.680 to distract us by playing his Is that a vufa zella? 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:05.720 I know that's the bad boy of how stuff works. 0:02:05.840 --> 0:02:09.040 Mr Tristan McNeil, I can't believe he's playing feverd on 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:13.440 that thing. He's so talented. Wow, he really is all right? Well, Mango, 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.800 today's episode is all about trash talking. And I know 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:18.919 you've been wanting to cover this topic for a while, 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:20.960 so so why did you want to do an episode 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:23.200 on trash talking. I think it's partly because the stories 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:25.799 are so funny. I mean, you think about Muhammad Ali 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:29.440 writing poems about his opponents or Babe Diedrichson. Do you 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:31.400 do you remember her? She was like this athlete we 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:34.280 covered at Metal Fass. Yeah, I do remember her. She 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:36.799 competed in what wasn't like five events in some of 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.000 the early Olympics. She was phenomenal, and I believe she 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.040 said a javelin world record after tearing the cartilage in 0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.480 her shoulder. But she also trash talked with the best 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.400 of them, like she'd let people know she was going 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.000 to beat them, and then she'd also run circles around 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.360 them in warmups. What do you mean by that, like 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.880 show off her skills during the practices or what. No, 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.079 she would literally run circles around them as she warmed up, 0:02:59.080 --> 0:03:01.640 just taunting in an knowing them by playing her harmonica 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.000 as she did it. I love that she had a 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:07.280 harmonica on or that's so I know. But that's part 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.200 of what's so interesting to me is that this line 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:13.640 between trash talking and poor sportsmanship it's so blurry. Actually, 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:15.359 growing up, there was this kid in my neighborhood. He 0:03:15.440 --> 0:03:17.920 was a wrestler, and he was incredible. He was like 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.760 number one in the state. He had been wrestling since 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.320 he was in elementary school, so when he started wrestling 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.000 on the high school team, it was sort of a joke. 0:03:26.120 --> 0:03:28.440 The competition just wasn't up to his standard. And I 0:03:28.520 --> 0:03:31.120 remember one time he pinned a guy with just one hand, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.880 which is, you know, bad enough, right, But he was 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.200 using his other hand to wave at the cheerleaders on 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:42.000 the sideline. Like the whole thing was so cocky. It 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.280 sounds like it's from a movie or something, and I'm 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:46.600 guessing it was humiliating for the poor guy who got 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.480 pinned as well. Though. Yeah, I mean I was friendly 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:51.280 with the guy who got pinned, and when he told 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.200 me the story, he was more and add that had 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.720 happened to him than actually irritated by it. I mean, 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:58.360 I would have been furious. But on the one hand, 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:00.480 you kind of hate that sort of showman hip because 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:04.440 it feels indecent and on sportsmanlike, and on the other hand, 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.280 you think, jeez, he's a really good athlete. It actually 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:08.800 reminds me of the time, you know, Larry Bird was 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.280 just lighting it up against Utah, and he ran by 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:13.760 the opposing coach and he said something like, you know, 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:16.080 haven't you got anyone on the bench who can guard me? 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:18.479 And so the coach just looked down at his bench 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:21.479 and then slowly back at Bird and he pretty much says, no, 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:25.839 I don't see. I mean, you think, what a jerk. 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.120 And also he's Larry Bird, right, He's so good he's 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.000 allowed to say things like that. By the way, every 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:33.880 time I hear the name Larry Bird, now I think 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.599 about how the Twitter Bird mascot's name is Larry in 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.159 honor of him. But you know, there's so many different 0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:41.680 types of trash talk, right, Like there's the stuff where 0:04:41.760 --> 0:04:44.479 you HiPE yourself up, and then there's the chirping where 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:46.479 you're trying to pick apart the other opponent and getting 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.960 their heads so they're off their game. And I guess 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.800 Larry was walking this line between the two. Yeah. One 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:54.320 of the most fun parts of thinking about this episode 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:57.960 was looking into the psychology of trash talking. It's super interesting, 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.640 you know how effective it can be when you're talking 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:04.120 about all these incredible professionals they've been playing the sport 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.240 and dealing with some element of trash talking all their 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:10.360 life and it happens in every sport there. I mean 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:13.800 there's trash talking and bowling and cricket and then swimming 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.400 and sprinting. You know, no sport is immune to it. Yeah, 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.640 that's right. But another reason I wanted to do this 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.480 episode was I've seen this headline in the Harvard Business 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.719 Review this fall and it read, uh, the case for 0:05:25.800 --> 0:05:31.279 trash talking at work, according to research. I just love 0:05:31.320 --> 0:05:34.520 that sun had so much according to research, but it 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.560 sounded so ridiculous. I wondered, is there actually a case 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.880 for trash talking at work? I hope so, because I'm 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:41.960 feeling like we need to bring it to house that works. 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:45.120 But is there No, it's total click fait. I mean, 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.080 it's interesting that academics decided to study trash talking and 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.880 how it affects people in the workplace, and apparently when 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:53.919 the trash talk is coming from a different company, it 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.200 can be effective. Like one example they used was that 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.840 the head of GM was picking on Mercedes and he 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.560 said that the Mercedes C class was called that because 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:06.680 the C stood for mediocre, which is I know, it's 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.839 such a business to business put down. But the studies 0:06:09.880 --> 0:06:12.440 point was that sort of language can actually be motivational 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.599 for Mercedes employees, Like when the smack talk is coming 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.960 from a competitor, it can be useful to rev up 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:21.960 your labor force and kind of increase their focus. Yeah, 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.880 and I get that, you know, an outsider picking on 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.760 you can definitely be motivational. But but what if it's 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:30.239 coming from inside the company? Right? So the articles titled 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:32.880 the case for trash talking at Work, so that's what 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:35.159 I expected this was going to be about. But the 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.320 study showed that when you try to motivate your own 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:40.880 employees by trashing them, it just ends up being demoralizing, 0:06:41.080 --> 0:06:44.280 which is obvious, right. And also if your employees are 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.800 doing creative work, it totally throws them off. Like the 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:50.039 research showed that workers often respond by working less hard 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.839 or often even sabotaging their own projects, which which makes sense. 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.400 So I guess there's a moral here, and it's that, 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:00.640 you know, don't trash talk your competition because it will 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.760 motivate them, and don't trash talk about your employees because 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.720 it will demotivate them. I guess. Yeah. Basically, if you're 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:10.320 a business person, just don't trash talk. Right. Well, all right, 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.360 so let's move from the workplace into some ridiculous trash 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.720 talking stories from sports. I know these are some of 0:07:15.720 --> 0:07:18.280 our favorites and and I know there are a ton 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.040 of these. But before we do, actually let's talk for 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.120 a second about how we're defining trash talk. Yeah, that's 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.960 a good idea. So actually, that's one thing the paper 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.280 did a great job of. They have this really nice 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:36.000 definition of talking trash as quote competitive incivility, and basically 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:40.320 they consider trash talking either boastful comments or insulting comments 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:44.760 about an opponent, all delivered before or during competition. Alright, 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.120 so I guess that in that definition they're limiting this 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.200 to words, so we're not talking about touchdown dances or 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:55.360 dirty tricks. And actually that phrase competitive incivility. It sounded 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.120 funny at first, but it is interesting. And I was 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:02.120 reading about sledging, which is what call trash talking and cricket. 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.800 It was not something I knew about before, but there 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:08.040 were a bunch of articles on how bad it's gotten recently, 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:11.920 that the sledging in women's cricket is particularly bad. Apparently 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.240 in Australia it's it's terrible there. So what did they 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.160 do well? I guess this was in an Australia versus 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.920 England match, But it's pretty much what you'd expect, and 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.520 athletes picking on each other and trying to get each 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:26.680 other off their game. There's a little body shaming thrown in, 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.520 which some might call over the line, but honestly, I 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.200 think partially it's because it was women doing the trash 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.880 talking that the newspapers reported it with such shock. And 0:08:36.200 --> 0:08:39.319 I guess cricket is also supposed to be this gentlemanly game, right, 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:41.680 I mean, it's dressed up as a gentleman's game in 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.920 sort of fancy white uniforms and sweaters, but I don't 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.040 really think of it that way. Plus, it's not like 0:08:47.120 --> 0:08:50.160 trash talking is this new phenomena. Like I was looking back, 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.920 and there's trash talking in the Bible. I mean, David 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.640 walks up to Goliath and says, I will strike you 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.160 down and cut off your head, and that's not that 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:02.200 distant from anything Mike Tyson said. I mean, I don't 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.160 think it's quite as elegant as I'm going to eat 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:07.200 your babies, but you know, I see what you're saying, 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.800 And obviously trash talking at war might be slightly different 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.400 circumstances than in a game. But I think what I 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:15.959 found funny was that in some of the articles there 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.480 was almost this maybe like a romanticism for this golden 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.320 age of trash talking and cricket, you know, back when 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.920 it was all super witty and actually, here let me 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:26.880 read you a few examples. This is from a site 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.800 called The Conversation. One of the more famous sledges was 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:34.600 between Australian cricketer Rod Marsh and then this guy from England, 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:38.120 Ian Botham. Apparently they were friends off the pitch, but 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.680 according to the anecdote, Marsh tried to get Botham off 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.480 his game by saying, quote, so how's your wife and 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.439 my kids, which you could see how Botham might be offended. 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.200 But then Botham replied with a comment of something like 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:54.480 wife's fine, but the kids are a little dim. So 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.800 he yes ended in exactly. I mean, that was always 0:09:57.840 --> 0:09:59.920 my tactic to playing sports, right, You just let the 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.800 comments roll off you or use them to motivate you 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:05.960 and talk back on the scoreboard. But that comment actually 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:08.760 reminds me of the round table at the Algonquin. Did 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:10.760 you ever see that movie about Dorothy Parker? I think 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:13.000 it was called Mrs Parker in The Vicious Circle. No, 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:15.160 i'd heard about it, but I never actually saw it. 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.320 I don't actually remember the movie that well, but there 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.439 was this one scene where they showed the round table 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:22.120 at the Algonquin Club and this one guy joins the 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.960 table and picks on a bald writer who's sitting there like. 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.000 He just starts rubbing his head and he says, it 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.280 feels just like my wife's bare bottom. And then the 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.360 writer rubs his own head and says, why, yes, yes 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:38.320 it does. It's just kind of like one liner after 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.160 one liner. But I can't imagine all cricketing talk was 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.000 that witty. Yeah, I know, and and crickets certainly had 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:47.760 the reputation of being an elitist board, and maybe retelling 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:50.760 these stories helped make it feel a cut above. I 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:53.200 don't know. But actually there's another funny story that the 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.040 conversation referenced where there's this bowler named Shane Warren and 0:10:57.120 --> 0:11:00.720 a batter from South Africa named Darryl Cullinan, and Warren, 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.000 who's about to bowldo him, says, I've been waiting for 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.920 two years to have another go at you, so Colin 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.600 and just looks back and says, looks like you spend 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.120 it eating. I mean, these are the stories that still 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.320 get talked about, you know, like they're they're the models 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:18.120 for how to react to trash talking brutal, but it 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:20.480 almost makes it feel like modern trash talking can't be 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.440 witty too. So I was reading up on foul shots. 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.400 Apparently with enough trash talking or even distraction from the fans, 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.160 you can lower your shooters chances of hitting free throws. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.080 And there is one story of Scottie Pippen walking up 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.640 to Carlin Malone, who you know, was known as the Mailman, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.280 right because because he delivered, right, Yeah, that's right. But 0:11:39.920 --> 0:11:42.280 Pippin walked up to him as Malone was standing there 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.520 at the charity stripe and this was in the final 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.440 moments of an NBA Finals game, and he's about to 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.280 take two shots to tie and win the game, and 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:54.240 Pippin just whispers to him, the Mailman doesn't deliver on Sundays. 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.959 It's so stupid and witty, and I kind of want 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.720 of how long you've had that in his pocket just 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.520 waiting to drop it. But it completely took Malone out 0:12:04.520 --> 0:12:07.079 of his rhythm and he missed the shots and lost 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:10.640 the game that's insane. All right. Well, I want to 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.520 talk about foul shooting and the airball chan and also 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:16.439 about how fans actually can affect a game. But before 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:27.400 we do, why don't we pause for a quick break. 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.000 Welcome back to Part Time Genius, and we're talking about 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:37.520 the art of trash talking. Now, obviously, trash talking is 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.920 not a new phenomenon. I was looking back at some 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.480 old stories we've done. I actually saw you wrote one 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.040 about Roman bullets and how they used to have these 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:48.240 kind of like sarcastic inscriptions on them. That's right, that 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.320 was for metal filass. Archaeologists found these ancient Roman and 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.600 Greek bullets and they were surprised to find all these 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:56.840 ridiculous things written on them. So some had inscriptions for 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.560 good luck, you know, just so that they'd hit their targets. 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.280 But a lot of them had these ridiculous comments, like 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:07.160 out your for your backside. Actually, I think my favorite 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.480 one was one that said didn't say here's a sugar 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.280 plum for you. I know, that's that's so many words 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.080 for one tiny rock. All right, So obviously trash talking 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.440 isn't new, but they're competing views on how well it works. 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.120 Psychology Today did a story on it and they talked 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.560 to this sociologist, Richard Lapchick, and he founded the Center 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.599 for the Study of Sports and Society up at Northeastern, 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:31.160 and his point was that it serves a good purpose. 0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:33.880 You know, when well done, it gives athletes an edge 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:36.800 over their opponents. But then they talked to a sports 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.120 psychologist who works with the nets and college basketball teams, 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:42.280 and he had kind of a different point. He said, 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.480 not only does it put down generally make an athlete 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:47.720 play better, but all the time and energy wasted on 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.679 thinking up the trash talk is taking away from playing 0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.480 your best, and as he puts it, playing well as 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.600 the most intimidating factor, right, and when you're training and 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.199 competing at this elite level, I'm guessing it's hard order 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:02.880 to get psyched out. I remember reading this book Open 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:05.720 by Andrea Agassi, and in it he talks about how 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:08.080 his dad trained him, and you realize what sort of 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.200 focus and training athletes have and just how much they've 0:14:11.200 --> 0:14:14.560 practiced along the way. So as a baby, his dad 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:17.000 actually taped ping punk peddles to his hands so he'd 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:19.200 swing at the tennis ball mobile he built for him. 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.160 In his crib and then at age three or four, 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:24.960 he's got this sought off racket that he's allowed to 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.320 use to hit anything in the house, so it could 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.960 be balls, but also things like salt shakers or whatever. 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.040 And by the time I want to say he's six 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.040 years old, he's hitting a thousand balls a day that 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.840 are blasted at him at a hundred twenty five miles 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.560 per hour. It's insane, Like he's just a kid, and 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.880 he's forced practice until his arms feel like they're going 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.000 to fall off every single day. And the first line 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:50.480 in his autobiography is about how no one ever believes 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.800 him when he says this, but he hates tennis. Of 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.720 course he hates tennis. I mean, that's insanity, I know. 0:14:56.840 --> 0:14:59.800 But andre Agassi's dad was someone who believed in numbers 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.120 and math, and he thought that the kid who hit 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:04.720 a thousand balls a day for eighteen years was destined 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:06.640 to be number one in the world, you know, as 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:09.440 long as he's tough enough mentally. And there's certain points 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.240 in the story where a guess he gets intimidated and 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:13.840 thrown off his game, Like there's actually this great story 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.800 of von Lindell who walked around the shared locker room, 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:19.800 because in tennis you're sharing one locker room. But Von 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.360 Lindell would walk around completely naked except for tennis shoes. 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.240 Then you do this before a game just to psych 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.040 his opponents out. And during that he kind of sneered 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:32.400 at Agacy and dismissed him as quote, just a haircut 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.360 and a forehand, and then of course he proceeded to 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.640 wallop him. I mean, Von Lindell was terrifying, I know, 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.000 and naked live on Lindell is even more terrifying. But 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:45.680 my point is like, maybe you can intimidate a young 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.960 player or get in their head a little, but you 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.120 hit that many tennis balls in your lifetime and you 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.240 put yourself in that many competitive situations at a certain point, 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.600 you've got to be just on autopilot. Yeah, and I 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.720 can see that though. You know, clearly there are times 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.200 when you can get under somebody's skin. You know. Think 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.960 about Zadan in the World Cup. Oh yeah, when that 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.000 player from Italy said something about his mom or his sister. Yeah, 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:07.920 that was it. And he was playing Italy in the 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:11.200 finals and he actually headbutted the other player and it 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.240 was clearly provoked by words and you've got this season 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.360 player on the custom of retirement, and his hot headed 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.720 reaction actually got him kicked out of the game. Also 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.440 it turned into this ridiculous meme. But but I do 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.040 I get what you're saying. And the focus that elite 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:29.520 athletes are applying to their games is intense. And I 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.680 read a bit about it in an old esquire about 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.720 the American women's softball team and how the coach used 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.200 to write numbers on the balls and even though they 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.440 were coming at the batters, it over a hundred miles 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.840 an hour. In batting practice, the athletes would practice calling 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.520 out the numbers on the balls as they hit them. 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.040 Their eyes were so honed in they could actually identify 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:52.240 the numbers as the balls were rotating towards them. How 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.400 crazy is That's incredible, it really is. But you know, 0:16:55.400 --> 0:16:58.200 it's also why so many athletes have these routines for 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:00.240 when they're at bat or at the free throw line 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.160 or whatever it is where they need to concentrate. And 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.240 sometimes it's for the rhythm. You know, if you bounce 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:07.400 the ball three times at a free throw line, then 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:09.879 spin it and find a certain scene, you kind of 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.720 calm yourself down, give yourself a rhythm you're used to, 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.040 but it also mentally resets you and and takes you 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:18.480 out of the trash talking that might be going on 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:21.359 around you. It's funny to talk about every setting because 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.119 I read this story about a rot and that he 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.160 has this simple routine that a sports psychologist taught him. 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.960 So after strike, he'd stepped back from the batter's box, 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.520 close his eyes, remember how much he loved playing the game, 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.480 then look up at the sky and open them, and 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:38.560 the whole thing is made to make him sort of 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.720 like shrug off his worries and smile and just remember 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.600 to enjoy the game. Yeah, yeah, I actually kind of 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.840 like that. And I read about an even weirder one, 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:48.840 and this isn't so much a routine so much as 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.000 maybe a practice exercise. So in hockey, obviously there's a 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:56.520 lot of trash talking or chirping, and you're allowed to fight, 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.480 so it serves a purpose, I guess. But I was 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.560 reading about this one exercise as sports psychologist made for 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.560 working with goalies. Basically, while you're on the couch and therapy, 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:09.680 he'd place live mouse traps on your thighs and then 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.080 throw balls at you to try to catch, and the 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:15.760 training was supposed to be terrifying, but you know, you 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:18.960 get through it, and the ideas once you're on the ice, 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:21.880 your body doesn't freeze up or get tense when you're 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.920 getting talked to, but instead stays loose. That's the hope, 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:27.480 at least. I mean, that has to be the strangest 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.439 way to train against trash talking. I know, so, I 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:32.720 know you want to talk about the airball chan and 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.640 the curtain of distraction, but before we do, can can 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.119 we actually talk a little bit about Michael Jordan's absolutely 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.160 what about him? All? Right? Well, for listeners who grew 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.760 up when we did, you probably remember Air Jordan as 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:46.160 much for his winning smile and all his commercials as 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.720 for that incredible athleticism that we all know him for 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.679 as well. I mean, he played this stifling defense, he 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.600 could slam dunk from the free throw line. He just 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.280 knew how to take over games, and so you know, 0:18:57.320 --> 0:19:01.240 you were consistently stunned by his athleticism. But he also 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.320 seemed like this terrific ambassador for the game. Which is 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.439 kind of funny because when you do the research on 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.359 trash talking, Jordan's name comes up all the time. I 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.920 know they kind of glossed over that part in Space Jam, 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.760 yet I did. I know how often you watch Space Jam, 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:17.840 and yeah, there's just very little of that. But he 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.960 was an epic trash talker. And we've mentioned that sports 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:24.600 psychologists don't know the overall effective trash talking and games, 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:28.119 but Michael Jordan's a pretty good argument that trash talking 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.800 can work. And he actually had a specific philosophy about 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:34.760 trash talking. I thought this was super interesting. So basically, 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.639 he saw basketball as a team sport. But when he 0:19:37.680 --> 0:19:40.560 talked to you, and he do everything from shooting free 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.240 throws with his eyes closed too, you know, just to 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.280 show you how much better he was than you, or 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:47.480 maybe he would tell you the movie he was gonna 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.280 make and then do it on the next play and 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:51.200 just beat you doing it and make you that much 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.520 more embarrassed than trying to play them. But you know, 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.600 his philosophy was that trash talking makes a players stopped 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.240 playing with their team. Often they're so installed that that 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.240 they'll want to prove their skills against you, and it's 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.040 easier for a team to be one player than a 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.000