Speaker 1: Guess what, mango? What's that? Will? So, if you heard
Speaker 1: about Victor, he's this trash talking robot. There's a trash
Speaker 1: talking robot. Yeah. So he was designed at Carnegie Mellon
Speaker 1: University and and the point was for people to play
Speaker 1: scrabble with a robot. So the engineers wanted people to
Speaker 1: keep coming back to play with him, and so they
Speaker 1: decided to make him, you know, like not very good
Speaker 1: at it. And the only words in his vocabulary were
Speaker 1: lifted from a Sherlock Holmes short story. Also, the scientist
Speaker 1: thought it would be funny to make him really moody.
Speaker 1: So when he starts losing, he just gets all sarcastic
Speaker 1: on him. So what type of stuff is he saying? Oh,
Speaker 1: he's got some really good stuff. He'll say stuff like, um,
Speaker 1: this isn't golf. You're supposed to be trying for a
Speaker 1: high score? How goes that? And that's that's actually when
Speaker 1: he's a little bit more confident, But mostly he'll just
Speaker 1: razue and question whether you're actually cheating, because you know,
Speaker 1: of course he doesn't believe a human brain is capable
Speaker 1: of coming up with good words. I love this idea
Speaker 1: of like a robot swore loser. Yeah, and he he
Speaker 1: actually also blames his tiles a lot too. According to engineers,
Speaker 1: it's way more satisfying to play against someone who's cocky,
Speaker 1: but isn't actually that good. And one of the surprising
Speaker 1: things about it is that beating a trash talker makes
Speaker 1: people want to come back and beat him again. But
Speaker 1: learning about Victor made me wonder, you know, is there
Speaker 1: an art to trash talking? Are there techniques athletes used
Speaker 1: to block it out? And does it really psych out
Speaker 1: your opponent? So that's what today's episode is all about.
Speaker 1: Let's dive in. Welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will
Speaker 1: Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend
Speaker 1: Man Guesh Ticketer and sitting behind that soundproof glass try
Speaker 1: to distract us by playing his Is that a vufa zella?
Speaker 1: I know that's the bad boy of how stuff works.
Speaker 1: Mr Tristan McNeil, I can't believe he's playing feverd on
Speaker 1: that thing. He's so talented. Wow, he really is all right? Well, Mango,
Speaker 1: today's episode is all about trash talking. And I know
Speaker 1: you've been wanting to cover this topic for a while,
Speaker 1: so so why did you want to do an episode
Speaker 1: on trash talking. I think it's partly because the stories
Speaker 1: are so funny. I mean, you think about Muhammad Ali
Speaker 1: writing poems about his opponents or Babe Diedrichson. Do you
Speaker 1: do you remember her? She was like this athlete we
Speaker 1: covered at Metal Fass. Yeah, I do remember her. She
Speaker 1: competed in what wasn't like five events in some of
Speaker 1: the early Olympics. She was phenomenal, and I believe she
Speaker 1: said a javelin world record after tearing the cartilage in
Speaker 1: her shoulder. But she also trash talked with the best
Speaker 1: of them, like she'd let people know she was going
Speaker 1: to beat them, and then she'd also run circles around
Speaker 1: them in warmups. What do you mean by that, like
Speaker 1: show off her skills during the practices or what. No,
Speaker 1: she would literally run circles around them as she warmed up,
Speaker 1: just taunting in an knowing them by playing her harmonica
Speaker 1: as she did it. I love that she had a
Speaker 1: harmonica on or that's so I know. But that's part
Speaker 1: of what's so interesting to me is that this line
Speaker 1: between trash talking and poor sportsmanship it's so blurry. Actually,
Speaker 1: growing up, there was this kid in my neighborhood. He
Speaker 1: was a wrestler, and he was incredible. He was like
Speaker 1: number one in the state. He had been wrestling since
Speaker 1: he was in elementary school, so when he started wrestling
Speaker 1: on the high school team, it was sort of a joke.
Speaker 1: The competition just wasn't up to his standard. And I
Speaker 1: remember one time he pinned a guy with just one hand,
Speaker 1: which is, you know, bad enough, right, But he was
Speaker 1: using his other hand to wave at the cheerleaders on
Speaker 1: the sideline. Like the whole thing was so cocky. It
Speaker 1: sounds like it's from a movie or something, and I'm
Speaker 1: guessing it was humiliating for the poor guy who got
Speaker 1: pinned as well. Though. Yeah, I mean I was friendly
Speaker 1: with the guy who got pinned, and when he told
Speaker 1: me the story, he was more and add that had
Speaker 1: happened to him than actually irritated by it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would have been furious. But on the one hand,
Speaker 1: you kind of hate that sort of showman hip because
Speaker 1: it feels indecent and on sportsmanlike, and on the other hand,
Speaker 1: you think, jeez, he's a really good athlete. It actually
Speaker 1: reminds me of the time, you know, Larry Bird was
Speaker 1: just lighting it up against Utah, and he ran by
Speaker 1: the opposing coach and he said something like, you know,
Speaker 1: haven't you got anyone on the bench who can guard me?
Speaker 1: And so the coach just looked down at his bench
Speaker 1: and then slowly back at Bird and he pretty much says, no,
Speaker 1: I don't see. I mean, you think, what a jerk.
Speaker 1: And also he's Larry Bird, right, He's so good he's
Speaker 1: allowed to say things like that. By the way, every
Speaker 1: time I hear the name Larry Bird, now I think
Speaker 1: about how the Twitter Bird mascot's name is Larry in
Speaker 1: honor of him. But you know, there's so many different
Speaker 1: types of trash talk, right, Like there's the stuff where
Speaker 1: you HiPE yourself up, and then there's the chirping where
Speaker 1: you're trying to pick apart the other opponent and getting
Speaker 1: their heads so they're off their game. And I guess
Speaker 1: Larry was walking this line between the two. Yeah. One
Speaker 1: of the most fun parts of thinking about this episode
Speaker 1: was looking into the psychology of trash talking. It's super interesting,
Speaker 1: you know how effective it can be when you're talking
Speaker 1: about all these incredible professionals they've been playing the sport
Speaker 1: and dealing with some element of trash talking all their
Speaker 1: life and it happens in every sport there. I mean
Speaker 1: there's trash talking and bowling and cricket and then swimming
Speaker 1: and sprinting. You know, no sport is immune to it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. But another reason I wanted to do this
Speaker 1: episode was I've seen this headline in the Harvard Business
Speaker 1: Review this fall and it read, uh, the case for
Speaker 1: trash talking at work, according to research. I just love
Speaker 1: that sun had so much according to research, but it
Speaker 1: sounded so ridiculous. I wondered, is there actually a case
Speaker 1: for trash talking at work? I hope so, because I'm
Speaker 1: feeling like we need to bring it to house that works.
Speaker 1: But is there No, it's total click fait. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's interesting that academics decided to study trash talking and
Speaker 1: how it affects people in the workplace, and apparently when
Speaker 1: the trash talk is coming from a different company, it
Speaker 1: can be effective. Like one example they used was that
Speaker 1: the head of GM was picking on Mercedes and he
Speaker 1: said that the Mercedes C class was called that because
Speaker 1: the C stood for mediocre, which is I know, it's
Speaker 1: such a business to business put down. But the studies
Speaker 1: point was that sort of language can actually be motivational
Speaker 1: for Mercedes employees, Like when the smack talk is coming
Speaker 1: from a competitor, it can be useful to rev up
Speaker 1: your labor force and kind of increase their focus. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I get that, you know, an outsider picking on
Speaker 1: you can definitely be motivational. But but what if it's
Speaker 1: coming from inside the company? Right? So the articles titled
Speaker 1: the case for trash talking at Work, so that's what
Speaker 1: I expected this was going to be about. But the
Speaker 1: study showed that when you try to motivate your own
Speaker 1: employees by trashing them, it just ends up being demoralizing,
Speaker 1: which is obvious, right. And also if your employees are
Speaker 1: doing creative work, it totally throws them off. Like the
Speaker 1: research showed that workers often respond by working less hard
Speaker 1: or often even sabotaging their own projects, which which makes sense.
Speaker 1: So I guess there's a moral here, and it's that,
Speaker 1: you know, don't trash talk your competition because it will
Speaker 1: motivate them, and don't trash talk about your employees because
Speaker 1: it will demotivate them. I guess. Yeah. Basically, if you're
Speaker 1: a business person, just don't trash talk. Right. Well, all right,
Speaker 1: so let's move from the workplace into some ridiculous trash
Speaker 1: talking stories from sports. I know these are some of
Speaker 1: our favorites and and I know there are a ton
Speaker 1: of these. But before we do, actually let's talk for
Speaker 1: a second about how we're defining trash talk. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a good idea. So actually, that's one thing the paper
Speaker 1: did a great job of. They have this really nice
Speaker 1: definition of talking trash as quote competitive incivility, and basically
Speaker 1: they consider trash talking either boastful comments or insulting comments
Speaker 1: about an opponent, all delivered before or during competition. Alright,
Speaker 1: so I guess that in that definition they're limiting this
Speaker 1: to words, so we're not talking about touchdown dances or
Speaker 1: dirty tricks. And actually that phrase competitive incivility. It sounded
Speaker 1: funny at first, but it is interesting. And I was
Speaker 1: reading about sledging, which is what call trash talking and cricket.
Speaker 1: It was not something I knew about before, but there
Speaker 1: were a bunch of articles on how bad it's gotten recently,
Speaker 1: that the sledging in women's cricket is particularly bad. Apparently
Speaker 1: in Australia it's it's terrible there. So what did they
Speaker 1: do well? I guess this was in an Australia versus
Speaker 1: England match, But it's pretty much what you'd expect, and
Speaker 1: athletes picking on each other and trying to get each
Speaker 1: other off their game. There's a little body shaming thrown in,
Speaker 1: which some might call over the line, but honestly, I
Speaker 1: think partially it's because it was women doing the trash
Speaker 1: talking that the newspapers reported it with such shock. And
Speaker 1: I guess cricket is also supposed to be this gentlemanly game, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's dressed up as a gentleman's game in
Speaker 1: sort of fancy white uniforms and sweaters, but I don't
Speaker 1: really think of it that way. Plus, it's not like
Speaker 1: trash talking is this new phenomena. Like I was looking back,
Speaker 1: and there's trash talking in the Bible. I mean, David
Speaker 1: walks up to Goliath and says, I will strike you
Speaker 1: down and cut off your head, and that's not that
Speaker 1: distant from anything Mike Tyson said. I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's quite as elegant as I'm going to eat
Speaker 1: your babies, but you know, I see what you're saying,
Speaker 1: And obviously trash talking at war might be slightly different
Speaker 1: circumstances than in a game. But I think what I
Speaker 1: found funny was that in some of the articles there
Speaker 1: was almost this maybe like a romanticism for this golden
Speaker 1: age of trash talking and cricket, you know, back when
Speaker 1: it was all super witty and actually, here let me
Speaker 1: read you a few examples. This is from a site
Speaker 1: called The Conversation. One of the more famous sledges was
Speaker 1: between Australian cricketer Rod Marsh and then this guy from England,
Speaker 1: Ian Botham. Apparently they were friends off the pitch, but
Speaker 1: according to the anecdote, Marsh tried to get Botham off
Speaker 1: his game by saying, quote, so how's your wife and
Speaker 1: my kids, which you could see how Botham might be offended.
Speaker 1: But then Botham replied with a comment of something like
Speaker 1: wife's fine, but the kids are a little dim. So
Speaker 1: he yes ended in exactly. I mean, that was always
Speaker 1: my tactic to playing sports, right, You just let the
Speaker 1: comments roll off you or use them to motivate you
Speaker 1: and talk back on the scoreboard. But that comment actually
Speaker 1: reminds me of the round table at the Algonquin. Did
Speaker 1: you ever see that movie about Dorothy Parker? I think
Speaker 1: it was called Mrs Parker in The Vicious Circle. No,
Speaker 1: i'd heard about it, but I never actually saw it.
Speaker 1: I don't actually remember the movie that well, but there
Speaker 1: was this one scene where they showed the round table
Speaker 1: at the Algonquin Club and this one guy joins the
Speaker 1: table and picks on a bald writer who's sitting there like.
Speaker 1: He just starts rubbing his head and he says, it
Speaker 1: feels just like my wife's bare bottom. And then the
Speaker 1: writer rubs his own head and says, why, yes, yes
Speaker 1: it does. It's just kind of like one liner after
Speaker 1: one liner. But I can't imagine all cricketing talk was
Speaker 1: that witty. Yeah, I know, and and crickets certainly had
Speaker 1: the reputation of being an elitist board, and maybe retelling
Speaker 1: these stories helped make it feel a cut above. I
Speaker 1: don't know. But actually there's another funny story that the
Speaker 1: conversation referenced where there's this bowler named Shane Warren and
Speaker 1: a batter from South Africa named Darryl Cullinan, and Warren,
Speaker 1: who's about to bowldo him, says, I've been waiting for
Speaker 1: two years to have another go at you, so Colin
Speaker 1: and just looks back and says, looks like you spend
Speaker 1: it eating. I mean, these are the stories that still
Speaker 1: get talked about, you know, like they're they're the models
Speaker 1: for how to react to trash talking brutal, but it
Speaker 1: almost makes it feel like modern trash talking can't be
Speaker 1: witty too. So I was reading up on foul shots.
Speaker 1: Apparently with enough trash talking or even distraction from the fans,
Speaker 1: you can lower your shooters chances of hitting free throws.
Speaker 1: And there is one story of Scottie Pippen walking up
Speaker 1: to Carlin Malone, who you know, was known as the Mailman,
Speaker 1: right because because he delivered, right, Yeah, that's right. But
Speaker 1: Pippin walked up to him as Malone was standing there
Speaker 1: at the charity stripe and this was in the final
Speaker 1: moments of an NBA Finals game, and he's about to
Speaker 1: take two shots to tie and win the game, and
Speaker 1: Pippin just whispers to him, the Mailman doesn't deliver on Sundays.
Speaker 1: It's so stupid and witty, and I kind of want
Speaker 1: of how long you've had that in his pocket just
Speaker 1: waiting to drop it. But it completely took Malone out
Speaker 1: of his rhythm and he missed the shots and lost
Speaker 1: the game that's insane. All right. Well, I want to
Speaker 1: talk about foul shooting and the airball chan and also
Speaker 1: about how fans actually can affect a game. But before
Speaker 1: we do, why don't we pause for a quick break.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, and we're talking about
Speaker 1: the art of trash talking. Now, obviously, trash talking is
Speaker 1: not a new phenomenon. I was looking back at some
Speaker 1: old stories we've done. I actually saw you wrote one
Speaker 1: about Roman bullets and how they used to have these
Speaker 1: kind of like sarcastic inscriptions on them. That's right, that
Speaker 1: was for metal filass. Archaeologists found these ancient Roman and
Speaker 1: Greek bullets and they were surprised to find all these
Speaker 1: ridiculous things written on them. So some had inscriptions for
Speaker 1: good luck, you know, just so that they'd hit their targets.
Speaker 1: But a lot of them had these ridiculous comments, like
Speaker 1: out your for your backside. Actually, I think my favorite
Speaker 1: one was one that said didn't say here's a sugar
Speaker 1: plum for you. I know, that's that's so many words
Speaker 1: for one tiny rock. All right, So obviously trash talking
Speaker 1: isn't new, but they're competing views on how well it works.
Speaker 1: Psychology Today did a story on it and they talked
Speaker 1: to this sociologist, Richard Lapchick, and he founded the Center
Speaker 1: for the Study of Sports and Society up at Northeastern,
Speaker 1: and his point was that it serves a good purpose.
Speaker 1: You know, when well done, it gives athletes an edge
Speaker 1: over their opponents. But then they talked to a sports
Speaker 1: psychologist who works with the nets and college basketball teams,
Speaker 1: and he had kind of a different point. He said,
Speaker 1: not only does it put down generally make an athlete
Speaker 1: play better, but all the time and energy wasted on
Speaker 1: thinking up the trash talk is taking away from playing
Speaker 1: your best, and as he puts it, playing well as
Speaker 1: the most intimidating factor, right, and when you're training and
Speaker 1: competing at this elite level, I'm guessing it's hard order
Speaker 1: to get psyched out. I remember reading this book Open
Speaker 1: by Andrea Agassi, and in it he talks about how
Speaker 1: his dad trained him, and you realize what sort of
Speaker 1: focus and training athletes have and just how much they've
Speaker 1: practiced along the way. So as a baby, his dad
Speaker 1: actually taped ping punk peddles to his hands so he'd
Speaker 1: swing at the tennis ball mobile he built for him.
Speaker 1: In his crib and then at age three or four,
Speaker 1: he's got this sought off racket that he's allowed to
Speaker 1: use to hit anything in the house, so it could
Speaker 1: be balls, but also things like salt shakers or whatever.
Speaker 1: And by the time I want to say he's six
Speaker 1: years old, he's hitting a thousand balls a day that
Speaker 1: are blasted at him at a hundred twenty five miles
Speaker 1: per hour. It's insane, Like he's just a kid, and
Speaker 1: he's forced practice until his arms feel like they're going
Speaker 1: to fall off every single day. And the first line
Speaker 1: in his autobiography is about how no one ever believes
Speaker 1: him when he says this, but he hates tennis. Of
Speaker 1: course he hates tennis. I mean, that's insanity, I know.
Speaker 1: But andre Agassi's dad was someone who believed in numbers
Speaker 1: and math, and he thought that the kid who hit
Speaker 1: a thousand balls a day for eighteen years was destined
Speaker 1: to be number one in the world, you know, as
Speaker 1: long as he's tough enough mentally. And there's certain points
Speaker 1: in the story where a guess he gets intimidated and
Speaker 1: thrown off his game, Like there's actually this great story
Speaker 1: of von Lindell who walked around the shared locker room,
Speaker 1: because in tennis you're sharing one locker room. But Von
Speaker 1: Lindell would walk around completely naked except for tennis shoes.
Speaker 1: Then you do this before a game just to psych
Speaker 1: his opponents out. And during that he kind of sneered
Speaker 1: at Agacy and dismissed him as quote, just a haircut
Speaker 1: and a forehand, and then of course he proceeded to
Speaker 1: wallop him. I mean, Von Lindell was terrifying, I know,
Speaker 1: and naked live on Lindell is even more terrifying. But
Speaker 1: my point is like, maybe you can intimidate a young
Speaker 1: player or get in their head a little, but you
Speaker 1: hit that many tennis balls in your lifetime and you
Speaker 1: put yourself in that many competitive situations at a certain point,
Speaker 1: you've got to be just on autopilot. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: can see that though. You know, clearly there are times
Speaker 1: when you can get under somebody's skin. You know. Think
Speaker 1: about Zadan in the World Cup. Oh yeah, when that
Speaker 1: player from Italy said something about his mom or his sister. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was it. And he was playing Italy in the
Speaker 1: finals and he actually headbutted the other player and it
Speaker 1: was clearly provoked by words and you've got this season
Speaker 1: player on the custom of retirement, and his hot headed
Speaker 1: reaction actually got him kicked out of the game. Also
Speaker 1: it turned into this ridiculous meme. But but I do
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying. And the focus that elite
Speaker 1: athletes are applying to their games is intense. And I
Speaker 1: read a bit about it in an old esquire about
Speaker 1: the American women's softball team and how the coach used
Speaker 1: to write numbers on the balls and even though they
Speaker 1: were coming at the batters, it over a hundred miles
Speaker 1: an hour. In batting practice, the athletes would practice calling
Speaker 1: out the numbers on the balls as they hit them.
Speaker 1: Their eyes were so honed in they could actually identify
Speaker 1: the numbers as the balls were rotating towards them. How
Speaker 1: crazy is That's incredible, it really is. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's also why so many athletes have these routines for
Speaker 1: when they're at bat or at the free throw line
Speaker 1: or whatever it is where they need to concentrate. And
Speaker 1: sometimes it's for the rhythm. You know, if you bounce
Speaker 1: the ball three times at a free throw line, then
Speaker 1: spin it and find a certain scene, you kind of
Speaker 1: calm yourself down, give yourself a rhythm you're used to,
Speaker 1: but it also mentally resets you and and takes you
Speaker 1: out of the trash talking that might be going on
Speaker 1: around you. It's funny to talk about every setting because
Speaker 1: I read this story about a rot and that he
Speaker 1: has this simple routine that a sports psychologist taught him.
Speaker 1: So after strike, he'd stepped back from the batter's box,
Speaker 1: close his eyes, remember how much he loved playing the game,
Speaker 1: then look up at the sky and open them, and
Speaker 1: the whole thing is made to make him sort of
Speaker 1: like shrug off his worries and smile and just remember
Speaker 1: to enjoy the game. Yeah, yeah, I actually kind of
Speaker 1: like that. And I read about an even weirder one,
Speaker 1: and this isn't so much a routine so much as
Speaker 1: maybe a practice exercise. So in hockey, obviously there's a
Speaker 1: lot of trash talking or chirping, and you're allowed to fight,
Speaker 1: so it serves a purpose, I guess. But I was
Speaker 1: reading about this one exercise as sports psychologist made for
Speaker 1: working with goalies. Basically, while you're on the couch and therapy,
Speaker 1: he'd place live mouse traps on your thighs and then
Speaker 1: throw balls at you to try to catch, and the
Speaker 1: training was supposed to be terrifying, but you know, you
Speaker 1: get through it, and the ideas once you're on the ice,
Speaker 1: your body doesn't freeze up or get tense when you're
Speaker 1: getting talked to, but instead stays loose. That's the hope,
Speaker 1: at least. I mean, that has to be the strangest
Speaker 1: way to train against trash talking. I know, so, I
Speaker 1: know you want to talk about the airball chan and
Speaker 1: the curtain of distraction, but before we do, can can
Speaker 1: we actually talk a little bit about Michael Jordan's absolutely
Speaker 1: what about him? All? Right? Well, for listeners who grew
Speaker 1: up when we did, you probably remember Air Jordan as
Speaker 1: much for his winning smile and all his commercials as
Speaker 1: for that incredible athleticism that we all know him for
Speaker 1: as well. I mean, he played this stifling defense, he
Speaker 1: could slam dunk from the free throw line. He just
Speaker 1: knew how to take over games, and so you know,
Speaker 1: you were consistently stunned by his athleticism. But he also
Speaker 1: seemed like this terrific ambassador for the game. Which is
Speaker 1: kind of funny because when you do the research on
Speaker 1: trash talking, Jordan's name comes up all the time. I
Speaker 1: know they kind of glossed over that part in Space Jam,
Speaker 1: yet I did. I know how often you watch Space Jam,
Speaker 1: and yeah, there's just very little of that. But he
Speaker 1: was an epic trash talker. And we've mentioned that sports
Speaker 1: psychologists don't know the overall effective trash talking and games,
Speaker 1: but Michael Jordan's a pretty good argument that trash talking
Speaker 1: can work. And he actually had a specific philosophy about
Speaker 1: trash talking. I thought this was super interesting. So basically,
Speaker 1: he saw basketball as a team sport. But when he
Speaker 1: talked to you, and he do everything from shooting free
Speaker 1: throws with his eyes closed too, you know, just to
Speaker 1: show you how much better he was than you, or
Speaker 1: maybe he would tell you the movie he was gonna
Speaker 1: make and then do it on the next play and
Speaker 1: just beat you doing it and make you that much
Speaker 1: more embarrassed than trying to play them. But you know,
Speaker 1: his philosophy was that trash talking makes a players stopped
Speaker 1: playing with their team. Often they're so installed that that
Speaker 1: they'll want to prove their skills against you, and it's
Speaker 1: easier for a team to be one player than a
Speaker 1: whole team. Oh that's really interesting. So he was kind
Speaker 1: of taking people out of making a smart pass or
Speaker 1: a smart assistant, sort of daring them to make a
Speaker 1: more glorious play. Yeah, and there there was actually this
Speaker 1: one time the Nine Playoffs against one of your favorite players,
Speaker 1: Muggsy Bows. I know, I loved Muggsy Bogs, And partially
Speaker 1: it was just that he was so short. He was
Speaker 1: like five three, But watching him gave me so much
Speaker 1: hope as a short kid. He was really fun to
Speaker 1: watch though. And and and Jordan was guarding Muggsy in
Speaker 1: this this one story, and he gave him all the
Speaker 1: space and then he just said shoot at you. And
Speaker 1: so I condensed that he used an expletive there and
Speaker 1: made fun of his height in doing so. But Muggsy
Speaker 1: took the shot and not only did he miss, but
Speaker 1: he missed like terribly and so totally airballed this shot.
Speaker 1: And the sad part of the story, this actually kind
Speaker 1: of heartbreaking, is that Moggy Bugs claimed that that moment
Speaker 1: ruined his career. Until then, he'd had three straight years
Speaker 1: of putting up double digit points in a game, but
Speaker 1: after that year he was never the same. I think
Speaker 1: he everaged something like five point nine points a game
Speaker 1: after that. Oh that's horrible that trash talk had a
Speaker 1: lasting impact. It's insane. Yeah yeah, And you know, part
Speaker 1: of what made Jordan's so good, though, was how he
Speaker 1: reacted to trash talking. So if you dared to trash
Speaker 1: talk to him, it just motivated him insanely. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: I know we've all heard lots of these stories, but
Speaker 1: no one pointed me to this one about the Dream
Speaker 1: Team and how in scrimmage once Magic Johnson's team was
Speaker 1: off to this early lead, so to rattle Jordan a little,
Speaker 1: he tapped him on the shoulder and said, hey, man,
Speaker 1: if you don't turn into air Jordan's soon, we're gonna
Speaker 1: blow you out today. And the way Magic tells it,
Speaker 1: like Jordan's eyes just went huge and he was livid.
Speaker 1: So he comes down the court on the next play
Speaker 1: and hits the three and then another three and just
Speaker 1: torches the other team. And Magic Johnson actually calls it
Speaker 1: the best game he's ever been a part of. How
Speaker 1: I don't know why anyone would be dumb enough to
Speaker 1: trash talk Michael Jordan those kinds of situations. All right, Well,
Speaker 1: we still haven't gotten into how crowds impact games. But
Speaker 1: why don't we take a quick break and then we'll
Speaker 1: get into that, all right, mangoes. So, as you know,
Speaker 1: we get a lot of great questions from our listeners.
Speaker 1: But it's been kind of funny because the question we
Speaker 1: get most often is who is Jason? And if you
Speaker 1: don't know what I'm talking about, At the very end
Speaker 1: of each episode, in the credits, we have this little
Speaker 1: inside joke where we say that we forget to mention Jason,
Speaker 1: and then we say Jason Who. And it's so funny
Speaker 1: how many people right in asking who Jason is? And
Speaker 1: I'm happy to report that we've actually got Jason here
Speaker 1: in studio with us. He's a member of the House
Speaker 1: Stuff Works team, but we are not actually allowed to
Speaker 1: say his last name. He's going to remain a mystery.
Speaker 1: But Jason, welcome to Part Time Genius. It is such
Speaker 1: a pleasure. Guys. Now, the reason we're having you on
Speaker 1: this episode because it is about trash talking, is because
Speaker 1: you've actually worked at How Stuff Works twice and in
Speaker 1: between these stents at How Stuff Works, you actually worked
Speaker 1: for the w w E, the World Wrestling Entertainment Company. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was kind of a phase. You know, It's kind
Speaker 1: of like, you know, after college when you move away
Speaker 1: out of your parents basement or something like that. It
Speaker 1: was just it was something I needed to do. Wow,
Speaker 1: it's pretty awesome. Okay, So, Jason, one question I had
Speaker 1: for you was what is your best experience of trash
Speaker 1: talking at the w w E? Like, did you actually
Speaker 1: get to see anything up close? You know, I have
Speaker 1: so many stories that could probably go into at least
Speaker 1: two volumes of books someday. But I will tell you
Speaker 1: that I was backstage one time and John Cena said
Speaker 1: to me, can I run something by you? And he
Speaker 1: literally cut a promo backstage and I said, it sounds great,
Speaker 1: and then he went on to deliver. Ever, five minutes
Speaker 1: later in front of folks, cut that same promo in
Speaker 1: front of the rock And I'll never forget that. That
Speaker 1: is unbelievable. You got a yeah, what am I supposed
Speaker 1: to say if I didn't like it? And actually, there's
Speaker 1: another strange connection between w E and how stuff works.
Speaker 1: We've actually had some professional wrestlers in the studios and
Speaker 1: how stuff works, right, Jason. Yeah, So folks may not know,
Speaker 1: but actually Rick Flair lives right outside of Atlanta and
Speaker 1: he was in our studio about a year ago doing
Speaker 1: some voiceover recordings, and uh, it was incredible. The guy
Speaker 1: is everything you see on TV uh and more. It
Speaker 1: was amazing. He's more tan than he looks on TV. Uh, tan, purple,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to say. All Right, Well, since we've
Speaker 1: been talking about trash talking and the w w E,
Speaker 1: we're gonna put you to the test, Jason, and we
Speaker 1: may harass you if you don't do super well. But Mango,
Speaker 1: what game are we playing with Jason? Today? Today's quiz
Speaker 1: is called nine seven needs professional wrestler or Teddy Roosevelt's
Speaker 1: guinea pig. Of course, yeah, that's that was the obvious
Speaker 1: quiz for today. And so so what we're gonna do, Jason.
Speaker 1: We're gonna give you a name and it's either a
Speaker 1: former pro wrestler or a guinea pig owned by Teddy Roosevelt. Now,
Speaker 1: if you're a presidential guinea pig enthusiast, which we know
Speaker 1: you probably are, this should be easy for you. So
Speaker 1: are you ready to play? Jason? I am. I know
Speaker 1: a lot about wrestling history too, I'm I'm up for
Speaker 1: the challenge. Okay, alright, there's five of these. Number one
Speaker 1: the name is Haystacks Calhoun. Is this the name of
Speaker 1: a professional wrestler or a Teddy Roosevelt guinea pig? I
Speaker 1: think it's a guinea pig. It's actually a professional wrestler. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna shut up now, Oh ruined the reputation
Speaker 1: cut me among Okay, here we go, all right. Number
Speaker 1: two father O Grady, Wow Um, I'm gonna say guinea pig. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right, appriendly. He was a local priest. The kids knew,
Speaker 1: all right, so you are a one for one. Nice comeback. Okay.
Speaker 1: Number three, Pampero Furbo. That has to be a wrestler. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. He was known as the wild Man of
Speaker 1: the Pampas, and initially he went as Irvan the Armenian
Speaker 1: and the Missing Link before he settled on his stage name.
Speaker 1: But one of the best pieces of tribute about him,
Speaker 1: and this is from Metal Flaus, is that his catchphrase
Speaker 1: of oh yeah was later borrowed by Randy the Macho
Speaker 1: Man Savage. Wow, it's pretty good. You're almost as timidating
Speaker 1: as Randy the mancho Man Savage when you say it
Speaker 1: like that, man, go oh yeah, all right, two out
Speaker 1: of three so far, you're doing well. Number four, Bobo Brazil,
Speaker 1: Bobo Brazil. It's gotta be a wrestler. Yeah he was.
Speaker 1: He was a rival of the Sheik, of course he was.
Speaker 1: All right, last one, here we go, number five fighting
Speaker 1: Bob Evans. That has to be a guinea pig. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's right. All right. Well, how did Jason do on
Speaker 1: the quiz today? Well, Jason went an amazing four for
Speaker 1: five and uh that entitles them to a part Time
Speaker 1: Genius certificate of Genius and a hearty handshake for playing.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I wanted to trash talk him so bad
Speaker 1: if his performance slip, but he's just too good. Congratulations Jason.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, Welcome back to Part Time Genius. All right, so, man, go,
Speaker 1: I know you've been itching to talk about the sixth
Speaker 1: man at games, you know, the roaring crowd and and
Speaker 1: how it can actually affect games. Yeah, I do so obviously.
Speaker 1: As some of our listeners might know, we went to
Speaker 1: Duke and Cameron Indoor Stadium is a notoriously hard place
Speaker 1: to play basketball games for opponents. But one of the
Speaker 1: things I've always been surprised by is how athletes try
Speaker 1: to block out the noise when they first walk in,
Speaker 1: Like often you see them coming off the bus all
Speaker 1: wearing headphones, and I think I saw this first in football,
Speaker 1: but it's become common in all sports. Yeah. Actually, I
Speaker 1: read this article about Olympic swimmers and and how people
Speaker 1: used to think it was on sportsmanlike, you know, to
Speaker 1: walk in the stadium wearing these noise canceling headphones. But
Speaker 1: now it's just become the norm, you know. I don't
Speaker 1: know if Michael Phelps started it. He used to walk
Speaker 1: into the stadiums to pump himself up. He'd be listening
Speaker 1: to Little Wayne, which is totally our move. I know,
Speaker 1: we usually listen to a a Little Wayne before every episode, right,
Speaker 1: that's right, But part of that is just the focus,
Speaker 1: right for something like the Olympics. Athletes have been training
Speaker 1: for this day intensely for their entire lives, and you know,
Speaker 1: blocking out screens and taunts from fellow swimmers Like I.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize this, but in Michael Phelps case, there
Speaker 1: was a lot of dishing back and forth between the
Speaker 1: South African and the French swimmers in the US. It's
Speaker 1: kind of amazing because I kind of think of swimming
Speaker 1: as such a solitary sport, but you want to tune
Speaker 1: all that out and relax and meditate on this important
Speaker 1: race ahead. Yeah, definitely, And you know, I know this
Speaker 1: episode is sponsored by Beats by Dre. But one of
Speaker 1: the things I've been curious about for a while is
Speaker 1: whether those headphones really work and how they work, Like,
Speaker 1: are they just creating this cocoon around your ears and
Speaker 1: it's the paths that block out the noise or what
Speaker 1: I know. So one of my concerns with wearing headphones
Speaker 1: in noisy places is that you have to turn them
Speaker 1: up so loud to hear the music. Like I rarely
Speaker 1: listened to podcasts on the subway when I lived in
Speaker 1: New York, just because I was afraid of damaging my
Speaker 1: hearing from the standard headphones I had. But the technology
Speaker 1: behind noise canceling headphones is really interesting. So basically, there's
Speaker 1: a microphone in the headphone that's listening for ambient noise,
Speaker 1: and when it senses noise around you, it creates this
Speaker 1: fingerprint of that noise. You can read all about this
Speaker 1: on how Stuff Works website. But the software inside basically
Speaker 1: recreates that noise and then inverts it. So if you
Speaker 1: think about the waves of sound coming at you, it
Speaker 1: figures out the patterns of those sound and mixes it
Speaker 1: with the opposite signal to neutralize it. And the higher
Speaker 1: end headphones are just doing this for one noise, but
Speaker 1: they're targeting two or three different noises, like the hum
Speaker 1: of an airplane, but also the baby that's crying two
Speaker 1: miles back. It's pretty crazy that they're able to pull
Speaker 1: this off, and and obviously it works before a match
Speaker 1: or a race, but unfortunately it can't help you during
Speaker 1: the game. At least, I've not seen any players trying
Speaker 1: to wear noise canceling headphones during their games. Right, So
Speaker 1: back to Cameron Indoor and as you know, the stadium
Speaker 1: is actually kind of small, but the crowd tends to
Speaker 1: cheer the same thing in Unison, so it's tough for
Speaker 1: an opposing athlete not to hear it. And the whole
Speaker 1: time we were in school, i'd heard that the airball
Speaker 1: chat was actually invented at Duke. You know, I've actually
Speaker 1: heard that too, and I guess it's really not that
Speaker 1: hard to imagine. Yeah, but apparently they didn't invent it there,
Speaker 1: so they only modified this existing chat before. Apparently people
Speaker 1: used to sing air ball and then clap twice and
Speaker 1: then say air ball again and clap twice. But Duke's
Speaker 1: contribution was to take out the claps and lengthen it,
Speaker 1: so it became the familiar air ball. Air Ball just
Speaker 1: really took it to the next level. That is revolutionary
Speaker 1: and worth every dime of tuition that our parents paid. So, uh,
Speaker 1: how did you actually find this out? There's this academic
Speaker 1: paper on it called air ball Spontaneous large group precision chanting.
Speaker 1: Is that really it looked into how a crowd of
Speaker 1: strangers can chant things together without any sort of pre
Speaker 1: planned effort. But as the article put it, while quote
Speaker 1: air ball is a reasonable insult, it's the cadence that
Speaker 1: makes it a perfect basketball taunt. Wow. Alright, so we
Speaker 1: we know crowds taunt athletes and and I guess now
Speaker 1: we know why crowds do it with that rhythm. But
Speaker 1: I guess the question we still have to answer is
Speaker 1: whether crowds actually have an impact on the games. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I can actually answer that. The New York Times
Speaker 1: did a study on crowds and whether they affected the outcomes,
Speaker 1: and mostly they analyze free throw attempts because it's the
Speaker 1: only time in a game where the crowd is the
Speaker 1: only defense on the court. Oh yeah, I guess, I
Speaker 1: guess I had not thought about that way before. Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: according to the numbers, on average, college basketball player will
Speaker 1: shoot one percentage point less in a hostile arena, meaning
Speaker 1: the crowd does have an impact. And in some stadiums,
Speaker 1: like if you take Utah or u c l A, like,
Speaker 1: the whole team will shoot about one point less. But
Speaker 1: there's some places where that number is way, way worse.
Speaker 1: And the king of those stadiums is Arizona State, where
Speaker 1: they have the curtain of distraction. All right, well you
Speaker 1: should definitely explain what the curtain of distraction is. But
Speaker 1: how much worse the players shoot there? Well, they shoot
Speaker 1: nine percentage points less on average. Yea, So here's what
Speaker 1: the curtain of distraction is. For those of you you
Speaker 1: haven't heard of it. It's almost like the I don't know,
Speaker 1: the David S. Pumpkins of college basketball, Like the students
Speaker 1: open the curtain that's built around this PVC pipe and
Speaker 1: and then they have these ridiculous scenes with crazy props
Speaker 1: and it's right behind the opposing team's basket and it
Speaker 1: opens just before the shooter shoots the ball. But they'll
Speaker 1: do things like they've got one skit called the Unicorn
Speaker 1: Love Story where one person in a unicorn mask will
Speaker 1: jump into another arms and they'll just make out, of course,
Speaker 1: or other bizarre things like one time Michael Felts was
Speaker 1: there and for the first free throw, he and this
Speaker 1: other guy re enacted the Chippendale sketch from SNL. Like
Speaker 1: you remember that sketch where Chris Farley and Patrick Squeeze
Speaker 1: or Chippendale Dancer. Of course I remember it very well.
Speaker 1: But right before the next free throw he pulled off
Speaker 1: his pants and revealed this bright gold speedo, which, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, distracted the shooter. That's pretty great. I do
Speaker 1: love when there's an element of silliness to the taunts,
Speaker 1: you know, like there's plenty of mean spirited stuff out there,
Speaker 1: but there was another one I was looking at. When
Speaker 1: Scotland played Italy and soccer, the crowd chanted deep fry
Speaker 1: your pizzas. We're gonna deep fry your pizzas, which just feels,
Speaker 1: I don't know, so ridiculous, it's just funny. Well, you
Speaker 1: know what doesn't feel ridiculous? Ending this in a little
Speaker 1: trash talk backed off, all right, let's do it. So
Speaker 1: I love those photos of the sane bulk looking back
Speaker 1: at his competitors and just smiling at the camera like
Speaker 1: those were in all the papers, and he just makes
Speaker 1: it look so easy. But I didn't realize that trash
Speaker 1: talking is also a big part of his playful routine,
Speaker 1: Like he likes to remind relay racers to hold onto
Speaker 1: the baton and make sure they don't drop it because
Speaker 1: it's very important not to drop the baton, and also
Speaker 1: not to focus too hard on the bottom of the
Speaker 1: shoes as he races away. He was definitely able to
Speaker 1: back up that trash talk. That's pretty good though, But
Speaker 1: one of my favorite moments in trash talking histories when
Speaker 1: Chad Ocho Sinko Johnson he typed out an official letter
Speaker 1: demanding double coverage from his opponents. It reads, quote Chad
Speaker 1: Johnson's rule number one zero five nine. It is against
Speaker 1: NFL policy to cover Chad Ocho Sinko man to man.
Speaker 1: It always has been a rule, but with the events
Speaker 1: of the last year, we must have forgotten who he was.
Speaker 1: Please note that he is still the most uncoverable receiver
Speaker 1: in the league. This rule is for the safety of
Speaker 1: embarrassment to all defensive backs. I love that it's so elaborate. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I love trash talking at sports, but I had
Speaker 1: to bring in one from the non sports world, and
Speaker 1: this is from hip hop. I'm sure you remember how
Speaker 1: Drake famously made a power point of trash talk just
Speaker 1: to show with superiority to Meek Mills. But my favorite
Speaker 1: hip hop trash talk was when uh, jay Z and
Speaker 1: Nas were in this back and forth and jay Z
Speaker 1: sampled mass voice on the song the takeover. The lyric
Speaker 1: is quote, yeah, I sampled your voice. He was using
Speaker 1: it wrong. How unbelievable. And Brasen is that that's pretty
Speaker 1: good though. All right, well, did you know there's actually
Speaker 1: a bad boy of bowling. His name is Pete Webber,
Speaker 1: and he's the guy responsible for not just trash talking
Speaker 1: his opponents, but also introducing the wrap around Oakley's and
Speaker 1: the victory crotch chop to professional bowling. Apparently his dad
Speaker 1: was a pro bowler and a woman's spokesman for the sport.
Speaker 1: But as the website Azzi wrote in a profile of him,
Speaker 1: no one has ever won so much, so soon, so classlessly.
Speaker 1: I think he just became my favorite bowler, right the
Speaker 1: only one you can name the I think some of
Speaker 1: the worst trash talk is when it's done politely. So
Speaker 1: the New York Post had this anecdote about NFL player
Speaker 1: Reggie White and how he was the most unique trash talker.
Speaker 1: And this is according to Trent Dilfer, who's quoted in
Speaker 1: the article, and he said, not only would he destroy you,
Speaker 1: but then he'd say, quote, brother, Trent, you all right.
Speaker 1: I almost feel bad doing it to you, but I'm
Speaker 1: coming back. That's pretty good, all right? Did you know
Speaker 1: the US women's soccer team is notorious for their trash talk.
Speaker 1: According to one striker, Lady Andrade, who played for Columbia,
Speaker 1: the whole team felt belittle by the US. She explicitly
Speaker 1: told the press she quote wanted to beat them because
Speaker 1: the US women liked to talk so much. And a
Speaker 1: previous World Cup she punched Abby Wamback in the face
Speaker 1: because she, you know, the talking finally got to her.
Speaker 1: That's wild. So this isn't about trash talking, but it
Speaker 1: does relate to the stuff we talked about before, about
Speaker 1: routines and getting yourself in a rhythm. Did you know
Speaker 1: that Dirk Nowitzki hums a David Hasselhoff tune to himself
Speaker 1: before every foul shot. No I didn't. Apparently the song
Speaker 1: is called looking for Freedom, but it must work because
Speaker 1: at the time it was written about he was shooting
Speaker 1: nearly for the line. Wow, you totally broke the rules
Speaker 1: by not talking about trash talking, but you did manage
Speaker 1: to work at David Hasselhoff tune into this, So it's
Speaker 1: a good fact. I think I'm going to have to
Speaker 1: give you the trophy this week. I know, and it's
Speaker 1: a shame the audience can't see me doing my victory dance.
Speaker 1: It's also a shame that I can. But all right, well,
Speaker 1: if there are any great stories we missed you, guys
Speaker 1: can always hit us up on Facebook or Twitter, or
Speaker 1: drop us an email at part Time Genius at how
Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com. We always love hearing from you,
Speaker 1: or you can call us on our seven fact hot line.
Speaker 1: That's one eight four four pt Genius. That's it for
Speaker 1: today's show. Thanks to Beats by Dre for sponsoring, and
Speaker 1: thank you for listening. Searcher, thanks again for listening. Farttime
Speaker 1: Genius is a production of How Stuff Works and wouldn't
Speaker 1: be possible without several brilliant people who do the important
Speaker 1: things we couldn't even begin to understand. Tristan McNeil does
Speaker 1: the editing thing. Noel Brown made the theme song and
Speaker 1: does the mixy mixy sound thing. Jerry Rowland does the
Speaker 1: exact producer thing. Gaveluesier is our lead researcher, with support
Speaker 1: from the Research Army including Austin Thompson, Nolan Brown and
Speaker 1: Lucas Adams and Eve. Jeff Cook gets the show to
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Speaker 1: what you've heard, maybe you could leave a good review
Speaker 1: for us. Did you forget James Jason who it is
Speaker 1: the best pos