Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westerwaldt. I
Speaker 1: am super excited to be bringing you a new mini
Speaker 1: series over the next few weeks. It's called The Black Thread.
Speaker 1: It's about Norway's complicated relationship with its identity as both
Speaker 1: a progressive leader and an oil stage. It's coming at
Speaker 1: you from the host of the communicating climate change podcast
Speaker 1: Dick and Bonvicstone, and was created in collaboration with the
Speaker 1: Norwegian nonprofit Klima Culter. This is The Black Thread Episode one.
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Norway a country whose name conjures images of fairytale fjords,
Speaker 2: mighty mountains and northern lights. A place known for its
Speaker 2: great adventurers. It's sagas about Thor and the Vikings and
Speaker 2: its cultural treasures like paintings by Monk, plays by Ibsen
Speaker 2: and music like this by Greek A beautiful soundtrack for
Speaker 2: a nation famous for its natural wonders, clean energy, electric vehicles,
Speaker 2: and wealth. So much wealth invested in its citizens' well being,
Speaker 2: happiness and positive impact on the world today, Norway tops
Speaker 2: all kinds of global rankings for life quality, happiness, democracy,
Speaker 2: political participation, press, freedom, and more. In fact, It's hard
Speaker 2: to imagine a more perfect utopia, and yet Norway remains
Speaker 2: a country curiously at odds with its international reputation and
Speaker 2: indeed with its own identity. Despite being legally committed to
Speaker 2: global climate goals, acknowledging the risk of climate change impact
Speaker 2: within its borders, and maintaining a self image as a responsible,
Speaker 2: nature loving nation and a champion of human rights, Norway
Speaker 2: continues to drill for oil. In twenty twenty five alone,
Speaker 2: the Norwegian states earnings from its petroleum industry are expected
Speaker 2: to reach around sixty eight billion US dollars, most of
Speaker 2: which will be funneled to Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund, known
Speaker 2: colloquially as the Oil Fund, an investment portfolio of around
Speaker 2: one point nine trillion dollars that promises to assure Norwegian
Speaker 2: wealth long into the future. With nearly one hundred active
Speaker 2: oil fields in the North Sea, seventy eight additional discoveries
Speaker 2: earmarked for future activity, and about half of all the
Speaker 2: oil that's ever been found on the Norwegian continental shelf
Speaker 2: still estimated to be in the ground, the industry shows
Speaker 2: no signs of slowing down. None of this fits with
Speaker 2: the world's view of Norway, or how most Norwegians see themselves.
Speaker 2: So what's really going on here, How do identity and
Speaker 2: action come to clash so significantly, and what forces keep
Speaker 2: this contradiction in place. From flagrant fossil fuel advertising and
Speaker 2: the revolving doors between the oil industry, politics and the
Speaker 2: boards of major institutions, to oil funded science exhibits for
Speaker 2: children and a widespread reluctance to fully face the consequences
Speaker 2: of their actions. A black thread oil runs through Norwegian
Speaker 2: society and culture, stitching together a complex patchwork of myths, money, manipulation,
Speaker 2: and denial. As a result, wherever you look in Norway,
Speaker 2: oil is not just present, it's accepted as normal, reasonable,
Speaker 2: and even right. Hello and welcome to the Black Thread,
Speaker 2: a podcast series unraveling Norway's complex relationship with prosperity, identity,
Speaker 2: and responsibility in a warming world. I'm Dickon, a brit
Speaker 2: based in Oslo, the Norwegian capital, As a climate communications
Speaker 2: expert and having published research about how narratives shape public
Speaker 2: opinion and support for climate policies in Norway, I've spent
Speaker 2: a lot of time pondering over the curious dynamics on
Speaker 2: display in this place. I've come to call home. Over
Speaker 2: the next four episodes, I invite you to follow the
Speaker 2: black thread with me, as guided by a range of
Speaker 2: experts and industry insiders, I try to understand how these
Speaker 2: conditions are maintained and how Norwegians try to square this circle.
Speaker 2: We'll discover where the logic does and doesn't stand up
Speaker 2: to scrutiny, and even hear how Norwegians might move forward
Speaker 2: towards a future beyond oil and gas. In this first episode,
Speaker 2: we'll meet the Norwegians and explore how social norms and
Speaker 2: cultural values shape their identity as a good, caring and
Speaker 2: nature loving people. We'll learn what happens when those values
Speaker 2: come into conflict with the reality of Norway's outsized impact
Speaker 2: on climate change, and discover how and why oil influences
Speaker 2: people's response to this dilemma. So let's begin to pull
Speaker 2: on the black thread.
Speaker 3: You're not the only one wondering why Norway has had
Speaker 3: such a good reputation and it is strange, of course.
Speaker 2: That's Anikhar And Sather, author, journalist and project manager at
Speaker 2: the Norwegian Climate Foundation NORWI is green think tank. You
Speaker 2: could say.
Speaker 3: That we have been an ev front runner the sales
Speaker 3: of electric cars. Now we're up at ninety six percent.
Speaker 3: That's a good thing. And we have donated to forest
Speaker 3: preservation in the world. We are doing international climate and
Speaker 3: nature diplomacy, and we try to tell ourselves and the
Speaker 3: world that we are helping the climate. But we do
Speaker 3: profit on a product that is devastating for the climate.
Speaker 3: And the emissions from the wagon oil and gas adds
Speaker 3: up to about ten times as much as the national emissions.
Speaker 3: So we do have a real problem.
Speaker 2: A real problem. Indeed, scientists agree that the world is
Speaker 2: hurtling in the wrong direction when it comes to climate change,
Speaker 2: which is causing extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and
Speaker 2: the devastation of nature and biodiversity around the world. Across
Speaker 2: the globe is costing lives, impacting human health, driving mass migration,
Speaker 2: and even according to the International Monetary Fund, risking economies too.
Speaker 2: The main driver of this global challenge is rising carbon
Speaker 2: dioxide or CO two in the atmosphere, primarily driven by
Speaker 2: the burning of fossil fuels like oil and gas. As
Speaker 2: a result, the United Nations has called for an end
Speaker 2: to fossil fuels and instead for a rapid transformation towards
Speaker 2: renewable energy sources like solar and wind. Even so, the
Speaker 2: Norwegian Prime Minister Euana scar Sturdo says there is no
Speaker 2: contradiction between Norway's climate efforts and the country's continued expansion
Speaker 2: of its fossil fuel industry.
Speaker 3: Norwegians like to think of themselves as the good guy,
Speaker 3: a force for good in the world, a small country
Speaker 3: doing great things. And some of it's true. We do
Speaker 3: spend a lot of money on international aid and develop
Speaker 3: and we try to participate on the international scene as
Speaker 3: a diplomat and so forth. We are a country pushing
Speaker 3: the environmental and AGAINDA internationally to some extent. So it
Speaker 3: has worked really well to think of oil and gas
Speaker 3: as something positive. It's almost as we're doing it just
Speaker 3: to help the world become a better place.
Speaker 2: According to Anakharan, Norway sees itself as a force for
Speaker 2: good in the world, a nation striving to make a
Speaker 2: positive difference. But how do you reconcile that with selling
Speaker 2: a product that's driving a global crisis. Back in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty nine, Norway was among the first countries to set
Speaker 2: a climate goal, inspired by the concept of sustainable development,
Speaker 2: which was spearheaded by Norway's first female Prime Minister, grow
Speaker 2: Harlem Brintland. Norwegians took real pride in their ambitious commitment
Speaker 2: to stabilize their emissions. However, according to Ana Kharan, once
Speaker 2: the reality of that commitment sank in, essentially meaning no
Speaker 2: further expansion of oil and gas production on the Norwegian
Speaker 2: continental shelf, both politicians and the public stepped back from it. Nevertheless,
Speaker 2: with a country electrified largely by hydropower and driven by
Speaker 2: a faith in technological solutions, Norway strove to cut emissions
Speaker 2: inside its borders, ultimately becoming a poster child for green
Speaker 2: growth and sustainable development. Decades later, and despite the ongoing
Speaker 2: expansion of their fossil fuel industry, Norwegians continue to express
Speaker 2: their deep concern for climate and the environment. Recent polling
Speaker 2: from research and advocacy organization Oil Change International shows that
Speaker 2: they rank climate and environmental issues above the likes of education, immigration,
Speaker 2: and employment. Meanwhile, oil and energy concerns rank far lower,
Speaker 2: only eleven percent of people see them as top priorities.
Speaker 2: Something here doesn't add up. If Norwegians feel so strongly
Speaker 2: about protecting the environment and they know oil is a
Speaker 2: major part of the problem, since they've worked hard to
Speaker 2: transform their own society away from using it. What's behind
Speaker 2: the disconnect? To explore this, let's turn to sociologists Carry Norgard,
Speaker 2: whose book Living in Denial sheds light on the cultural
Speaker 2: challenges Norwegian's face as they grapple with their role in
Speaker 2: the global climate crisis.
Speaker 4: What we do and don't think about is very much
Speaker 4: shaped by our collective context, both our social interactions and
Speaker 4: the kinds of cultural stories that we tell ourselves about
Speaker 4: how the world works, about what's happening, and the kind
Speaker 4: of cultural tools that we use or have access to.
Speaker 4: If we don't want to think about something, what's socially
Speaker 4: acceptable and what's not?
Speaker 2: So, what is it that's within the source code of
Speaker 2: Norwegian society and culture that allows this contradiction to continue.
Speaker 2: Let's dig into the academic literature for a bit of
Speaker 2: background on this place, its inhabitants, and particularly their relationship
Speaker 2: to nature. Norway is about the same size Poland or
Speaker 2: Vietnam three hundred and twenty four thousand square kilometers, but
Speaker 2: with a national population of just five and a half
Speaker 2: million people, it's mostly wild. Only three percent of the
Speaker 2: land is suitable for farming, Around a quarter is forest
Speaker 2: and less than one percent is actually urbanized. The rest
Speaker 2: of the country, about seventy percent of it is made
Speaker 2: up of mountains, lakes, and bogs, and that vast, untamed
Speaker 2: landscape is a huge source of national pride. In fact,
Speaker 2: for many Norwegians, nature isn't just scenery, its identity, its heritage.
Speaker 2: Nature is often seen as a birthright, something every child
Speaker 2: should grow up with and within. There's even a word
Speaker 2: for that free lift sleeve. The outdoor life hiking, skiing, climbing, canoeing,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Being in nature isn't just a pastime, it's
Speaker 2: part of being Norwegian. The late sociologist Thomas Holland Eriksson
Speaker 2: claimed that a Norwegian who doesn't get out into nature
Speaker 2: might be seen as a poor specimen by their fellow citizens.
Speaker 2: The special Norwegian relationship to the outdoors is summed up
Speaker 2: often in the classic saying the Finish ka doolivad barda
Speaker 2: dor lei klad. There's no such thing as bad weather,
Speaker 2: just bad clothes. Basically, being prepared, understanding the elements and
Speaker 2: having the skills and the grit to endure them no
Speaker 2: matter what they might be is deeply ingrained in the
Speaker 2: Norwegian psyche and in the way outsiders think about Norwegians too.
Speaker 2: As Carrie Norgard explains, Norway's connection to the outdoors is
Speaker 2: rather unique.
Speaker 4: This is a place where to me it does seem
Speaker 4: really clear that the natural world in the long time
Speaker 4: connection with the natural world is a distinct thing for
Speaker 4: Norwegians and certainly is something that's different. You know, sure,
Speaker 4: Finland and parts of Russia and Sweden have a lot
Speaker 4: of contact with the natural world, but if you look
Speaker 4: throughout Europe, not everybody has so much as people do
Speaker 4: in Norway. I think it's immediately apparent, and it's immediately
Speaker 4: apparent when you look at things like you know of
Speaker 4: time that people still spend doing outdoor activities, going to huts,
Speaker 4: going to the ocean, going to the mountains, going skiing.
Speaker 4: This creates a kind of self sufficiency and people of
Speaker 4: values around self sufficiency. There is a sense of connection
Speaker 4: to the natural world that is affirmed through activities like
Speaker 4: walking in the mountains, sometimes by yourself for days at
Speaker 4: a time. This sense of simplicity, this sense of innocence
Speaker 4: that can come from both culturally recreating it, but experiencing
Speaker 4: oneself in this way, it can be a strong jumping
Speaker 4: off point. Those connections with the natural world is an
Speaker 4: opportunity to care about it, to know about it, to
Speaker 4: make observations, to have your sense of security and your
Speaker 4: sense of identity rooted in the winter, in the summer,
Speaker 4: in the activities that you do, even the bodily sensations
Speaker 4: of jumping into the ocean, or the bodily sensation of
Speaker 4: knowing how to dress in the winter for skiing and
Speaker 4: knowing how to move your body across snow in the winter,
Speaker 4: there creates a very strong sense of identity and community.
Speaker 2: With a long history of public access to land and
Speaker 2: natural resources, today Norwegian's right to roam what they call
Speaker 2: alamans Redden is protected by law. Everyone has the right
Speaker 2: to walk, swim, camp and forage pretty much anywhere, even
Speaker 2: on private property. There's a real sense that Norway and
Speaker 2: its resources are for everyone. That means if you're out
Speaker 2: in the woods and you find a patch of wild
Speaker 2: berries or mushrooms, you can pick them. Of course, initially
Speaker 2: my British instinct was to grab every single chanterelle mushroom
Speaker 2: I saw, because why not? Them's the rules and find
Speaker 2: as keepers. But as my pockets filled up and I
Speaker 2: rummaged in my backpack to make space for more, my
Speaker 2: Norwegian wife stopped me. What are you doing? She said,
Speaker 2: we don't need more, just leave the rest for the
Speaker 2: next person that comes along. It was a moment that
Speaker 2: stuck with me ever since, because it speaks to something
Speaker 2: deeper that there are unspoken rules here, a quiet ethic
Speaker 2: of fairness, of sharing, of prioritizing the collective over the individual.
Speaker 2: And that brings us to Yantlouvin, a silent set of
Speaker 2: rules that Norwegians live by. You can think of yant
Speaker 2: to Lauvn as a social code that works to keep
Speaker 2: people humble. Nobody should be so bold as to think
Speaker 2: that they're better than anyone else or deserving of more.
Speaker 2: It's a culture where people don't tend to show off,
Speaker 2: don't speak up unless they have something to say, don't
Speaker 2: push themselves forward, and rarely make bold claims. That might
Speaker 2: sound cold from the outside, but in Norway's part of
Speaker 2: a strong, quiet social fabric, one where fitting in matters
Speaker 2: more than standing out. Here's carrying Norgard to tell us more.
Speaker 4: Jante Lavin would be again sort of a cultural code
Speaker 4: around not sticking your neck out, around not thinking too
Speaker 4: much of yourself. It's a code that creates conformity and humility,
Speaker 4: and you know, it's harder to critique. If you make
Speaker 4: a social critique, it's seen as rude, it's seen as inappropriate,
Speaker 4: it's seen as thinking that you're smarter than other people.
Speaker 4: And I'm sure that that is part of what can
Speaker 4: make breaking out of the box around conversations on climate
Speaker 4: change just seem more inappropriate in the best of circumstances,
Speaker 4: the very best of circumstances, talking about climate change is terrifying.
Speaker 4: It's very difficult, it's beyond difficult. It's very disturbing at
Speaker 4: every level. And then if you have it that it's
Speaker 4: socially inappropriate, that you're breaking social norms on top of it,
Speaker 4: it becomes a way of dismissing the point of view
Speaker 4: right in order to have the conversation. There's just a
Speaker 4: much narrower set of things that are acceptable to talk
Speaker 4: about ways that is acceptable to approach your problem, and
Speaker 4: that would be a major limitation. It's not that Norwegians
Speaker 4: are not thoughtful, kind people, it's just that that's just
Speaker 4: not how things are done in most cases, so.
Speaker 2: We can imagine how Janthelovin could contribute to people not
Speaker 2: sticking their necks out, not wanting to rock the boat.
Speaker 2: But not only a Norwegians absolutely kind and thoughtful, they're
Speaker 2: also highly cooperative. Norwegian identity is typically described as practical, calm,
Speaker 2: conflict shy, and emotionally reserved, but it's also built on
Speaker 2: a strong sense of collective responsibility and collective action for
Speaker 2: the greater good of the group or for society at large.
Speaker 2: There's even a word for that too, dougnad.
Speaker 4: So dugnad just to define it is this idea of
Speaker 4: collective purpose, of that you contribute to, volunteer actions that
Speaker 4: we have, that people have to take care of each
Speaker 4: other in some way. It's a way of creating a
Speaker 4: sense of responsibility to participate in a project. I mean,
Speaker 4: the first way that I was introduced to it was
Speaker 4: in the community where I was staying when I did
Speaker 4: the work on living in Denial, and there was a
Speaker 4: barn that needed to be taken down, and so all
Speaker 4: the neighboring farmers brought their tractors and other equipment over
Speaker 4: and by the end of the day the barn was
Speaker 4: on the ground, and then everybody was eating food and
Speaker 4: drinking and celebrating together and having a wonderful community experience.
Speaker 2: It's an old tradition shaped by the landscape itself. In
Speaker 2: a country of scattered settlements and challenging terrain, communities had
Speaker 2: to rely on each other. You couldn't go it alone.
Speaker 2: So dugnot isn't just about getting things done. It's about
Speaker 2: being part of something, doing your bit, whether it's cleaning
Speaker 2: local beaches, tidying up shared apartment gardens, or going into
Speaker 2: lockdown during the pandemic. Nobody is above it. In this way,
Speaker 2: dougnot is also anti class, which really speaks to the
Speaker 2: sense among Norwegians of egalitarianism and equality. Everyone benefits from
Speaker 2: the collective commitment, but like so much in Norway, it's
Speaker 2: rarely spoken about. But it's there, part of the quiet
Speaker 2: social code, alongside Alamansreddin, alongside Yanthelovnri but deeply understood. So
Speaker 2: that was your crash course into some of the fundamentals
Speaker 2: of Norwegian society and culture. But carries work in Norway
Speaker 2: specifically sought to uncover the mechanics of climate denial. So
Speaker 2: how is it that deeply rooted rules, norms and ways
Speaker 2: of being like those we've just discussed, can contribute to
Speaker 2: what seems like such an obvious paradox.
Speaker 4: When you study sometimes something that says threat to society,
Speaker 4: it becomes a moment where you can see how things work.
Speaker 4: And so taking climate change as an example of how
Speaker 4: the social organization of denial operates, we can see in
Speaker 4: a Norwegian context, there's values of egalitarianism, there's values of
Speaker 4: human rights, there's values of connection to nature. There's a
Speaker 4: strong sense of moral code, there's a sense of collective purpose.
Speaker 4: And those are wonderful things, absolutely wonderful qualities that I
Speaker 4: wish more countries had. But I think one thing that's
Speaker 4: important to realize is as much as these are potentially
Speaker 4: very positive qualities, really critically essential qualities when it comes
Speaker 4: to solving a large global environmental human rights problem like
Speaker 4: climate change, that if we think about psychological principles like
Speaker 4: cognitive dissonance, for example, we can also see where they
Speaker 4: can be like an achilles heel.
Speaker 2: Cognitive dissonance is the feeling of being stuck between what
Speaker 2: you believe and how you feel, often in relation to
Speaker 2: some actions that you've taken. It's kind of a mental
Speaker 2: tension that makes it hard to fully face a problem
Speaker 2: or take strong action to fix it. Sometimes, learning new information,
Speaker 2: for example, that the emissions associated with your national oil
Speaker 2: industry are driving climate change, can lead to the discomfort
Speaker 2: of cognitive dissonance. People sometimes deal with this by finding
Speaker 2: ways to justify their behaviors or finding ways to discredit
Speaker 2: or ignore that new information. This may explain the great
Speaker 2: confidence many Norwegians have in a slew of as of
Speaker 2: yet unproven technological solutions to the challenge of rising emissions,
Speaker 2: and the fact that in recent years, at the same
Speaker 2: time as ranking environmental issues highly in its list of priorities,
Speaker 2: Norway has also ranked as having some of the highest
Speaker 2: climate denial rates in the world. Let's hear from Carrie
Speaker 2: Norgard about how their national virtues, values and norms come
Speaker 2: back to bite Norwegians.
Speaker 4: If you take at the individual level, how those are
Speaker 4: in conflict with emotions that people share come up for
Speaker 4: them talking about climate change, such as guilt, such as
Speaker 4: fear about the future, such as a sense of helplessness.
Speaker 4: You have these three emotions that really come into conflict
Speaker 4: for people with these ideas of how they see themselves
Speaker 4: as morally good as strong environmentalists, so circling back to
Speaker 4: the idea of Yontloven and that it's socially unacceptable to
Speaker 4: break out of a mold that becomes a cultural tool
Speaker 4: that you can wield to attack someone by their personality
Speaker 4: rather than having to deal with the uncomfortable thing that's
Speaker 4: being proposed. Sociology talks about three levels of social organization,
Speaker 4: and the processes of denial cuts across these three levels,
Speaker 4: which are the individual level where we have psychological constructs,
Speaker 4: the cultural level, where we have social interactions and cultural
Speaker 4: norms and cultural tools that we use to recreate culture,
Speaker 4: and then the larger macro level, which is kind of
Speaker 4: the political economy and where you have things like in
Speaker 4: Norway that it's a capitalist society that's organized around fossil
Speaker 4: fuel production, and how those levels of social organization shape
Speaker 4: what people do and don't think about, and what is
Speaker 4: potentially problematic to think or not think about.
Speaker 2: So, according to Carrie Norwegians are proud of being kind
Speaker 2: and caring about each other, about nature, and about being
Speaker 2: a force for the greater good, but their role as
Speaker 2: an oil nation driving global climate change can bring up
Speaker 2: feelings of guilt, helplessness, or fear it clashes with how
Speaker 2: they see themselves as good and responsible people, leading them
Speaker 2: to potentially reject the reality due to cognitive dissonance, or
Speaker 2: otherwise discredit those who voice that there might be a
Speaker 2: problem as being culturally deviant and thinking they're smarter than
Speaker 2: the rest. As we've learned, that's a big no no
Speaker 2: in Norway. Something else that's worth adding is that Norway's
Speaker 2: small communities, even within its major cities, create overlapping social
Speaker 2: networks where almost everyone is connected in some way. As
Speaker 2: a result, you might hesitate to criticize the service at
Speaker 2: a restaurant because the waiter is friends with someone in
Speaker 2: your extended family, or avoid commenting on a new local
Speaker 2: development because your neighbour is involved. In casual conversation, people
Speaker 2: often leave out identifying details like company names or surnames
Speaker 2: because the people on the adjacent table, or next in line,
Speaker 2: or sitting nearby on the bus might share social connections
Speaker 2: in some way. The result is a pervasive self censorship
Speaker 2: that I simply haven't encountered anywhere else. While this can
Speaker 2: make everyday interactions smoother, it also means important but difficult conversations,
Speaker 2: for example, dissatisfaction with a colleague's conduct or Indeed, critiques
Speaker 2: of the oil industry often never happen, but the story
Speaker 2: doesn't end there. These inner conflicts are made even more
Speaker 2: complex by the fact that oil isn't just an abstract problem.
Speaker 2: It's also a huge part of everyday life. Let's take
Speaker 2: a step back and hear how it all began. In
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine, oil sprung into the picture on the
Speaker 2: website of Equinor, Norway's national oil company. It reads the
Speaker 2: same year that humans landed on the Moon, taking their
Speaker 2: first steps out into the stars. What was then the
Speaker 2: world's largest offshore oil field was discovered in Norway's subsurface
Speaker 2: universe on the continental shelf. The discovery of Ecofisk, that
Speaker 2: oil field southwest of the city of Stavanga on Norway's
Speaker 2: west coast, offered vast opportunities for Little Norway to expand
Speaker 2: on our understanding of those early days. Here's Yanik Lindbag,
Speaker 2: executive vice president for Communications at Equinor.
Speaker 5: Oil was discovered late sixties, and then the Parliament set
Speaker 5: the principles for the development of natural resources that was found.
Speaker 5: These principles have served Norway really well. The political choices
Speaker 5: that were made was able to make sure that the
Speaker 5: resources was developed in a way that benefited the whole
Speaker 5: of society, and that was the political aim at the time.
Speaker 5: And as part of that, it was also a choice
Speaker 5: to establish a national oil company which was Statoil at
Speaker 5: the time, which is now Equinora. Obviously, for as long
Speaker 5: as it was one hundred percent state on it was
Speaker 5: obviously every Norwegians property. Now the Norwegians share that interest
Speaker 5: with some other shareholders, but still it's received to be
Speaker 5: company of the people, owned by the people, and supposed
Speaker 5: to act in favor of public ambitions and goals.
Speaker 2: You can really hear how oil fits into the Norwegian
Speaker 2: sense of the nation's resources being for everyone's benefit. Berries, mushrooms,
Speaker 2: fossil fuels, same same. But of course oil didn't just
Speaker 2: mean resources, it also meant jobs. According to Norse Petroleum,
Speaker 2: almost seven percent of the Norwegian workforce was directly or
Speaker 2: indirectly employed in the petroleum industry in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: What kind of impact might that have on the way
Speaker 2: that Norwegians think and talk about oil, Silia ask Lundberg,
Speaker 2: heads up North Sea Activities at research and advocacy organization
Speaker 2: oil Change International, who work to expose the true costs
Speaker 2: of fossil fuels and facilitate a just transition to clean energy.
Speaker 2: Cilia shares some insight on the influence of oil on
Speaker 2: Norway's workforce and society.
Speaker 6: Norways such a small country, so it's been like fifty
Speaker 6: six years since found the first oil and during that time,
Speaker 6: since we are such a small country, almost everyone in
Speaker 6: Norway knows someone who works within the oil industry, who
Speaker 6: works offshore, or who benefits from the oil and gas
Speaker 6: industry in some way. And then in addition the fact
Speaker 6: that our oil and gas industry is happening offshore, that
Speaker 6: also is kind of like out of sight, out of mind.
Speaker 6: But what we do see is the money flowing in.
Speaker 6: We see how people that we know earn a lot
Speaker 6: of money, how they work very good hours. The social
Speaker 6: license of the oil and gas industry in Norway is
Speaker 6: super high. I mean it has been even higher than
Speaker 6: what it is today. Close to twenty years ago you
Speaker 6: had some pulling off for Norway. One of their questions
Speaker 6: were like, are you proud to be Norwegian because of
Speaker 6: equinor or because of Stottle as it was called them
Speaker 6: eighty percent or something of who they asked was like, yes,
Speaker 6: super proud, and that was because we all knew someone
Speaker 6: who worked there, and I mean they did a brilliant
Speaker 6: job and they were good and we all saw the money.
Speaker 6: So I think it's so into like the Norwegian soul
Speaker 6: almost for the past fifty years.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't just the oil workers and their families
Speaker 2: who were enjoying these boom times, as Anakhar and Sava explains, for.
Speaker 3: The politicians, it was like living a dream when you
Speaker 3: could open all these new hospitals and kindergartens and so forth.
Speaker 3: It was hard to say no to all this money
Speaker 3: coming in. So then I guess this pride was growing
Speaker 3: and people were noticing to a greater extent, and that
Speaker 3: was sort of the Christmas present of all times.
Speaker 2: So a big social norm developed around working in oil too,
Speaker 2: and that reaches through to the present day. In fact, Equinor,
Speaker 2: the Norwegian National Oil Company, was awarded most attractive employer
Speaker 2: in Norway last year, and not for the first time.
Speaker 2: To many out ciders, particularly those deeply concerned about the
Speaker 2: worsening trajectory of climate change, this may sound bizarre even obscene,
Speaker 2: But it's really just the tip of the iceberg of
Speaker 2: how visible and normalized fossil fuel employment, advertising and activities
Speaker 2: are in Norway. Just this summer, for example, I came
Speaker 2: across a huge set of info boards in the middle
Speaker 2: of a small town in the north of the country.
Speaker 2: These boards were promoting another major oil company, KERBP. The
Speaker 2: boards explained that it was a great place to work,
Speaker 2: that it had ambitious plans to employ more women, and
Speaker 2: that it was excited about a project where fossil fuel
Speaker 2: production begins in twenty twenty seven and was stretched to
Speaker 2: quote twenty forty and beyond. They also stated how proud
Speaker 2: they were of the work that they were doing. This
Speaker 2: is in public, out loud and proud. It sort of
Speaker 2: makes sense then that the very idea of shutting off
Speaker 2: the pumps, as advocated for by scientists, the un vulnerable
Speaker 2: nations bearing the brunt of climate change and so many others,
Speaker 2: remains unthinkable to many Norwegians who still see oil as
Speaker 2: a lifeline, and not just for the country itself but
Speaker 2: for the world. Here's Celia ask Lundberg from Oil Change
Speaker 2: International again to explain it's in road that.
Speaker 6: If you take the life live from an average man,
Speaker 6: then you take his happiness as well. And I think
Speaker 6: that is very true about the Norwegian relationship to the
Speaker 6: oil and gas industry. One of our former pms Gruhale
Speaker 6: and Brintlam, which has an insane amount of status symbol
Speaker 6: in Norway, she was dubbed a nation's mother. She said,
Speaker 6: it's typical Norwegian to be good, and I think those
Speaker 6: two kind of go very well together, because we've been
Speaker 6: told over and over and over.
Speaker 4: Again that we're good.
Speaker 6: We only have good intentions, we only do the right thing,
Speaker 6: we have beautiful nature, we're so nice, we spend a
Speaker 6: lot of money on aid.
Speaker 4: We're good.
Speaker 6: And our oil and gas industry, well, that's wonderful. It's colleen,
Speaker 6: it's brilliant. We have had very good regulations of the
Speaker 6: winning gas industry, so that when regulating the industry, politicians
Speaker 6: have done a lot of good choices. We have had
Speaker 6: a lot of tougher environmental demands than in any other country.
Speaker 6: I mean, that is why the emission per produced barrel
Speaker 6: is so much lower in Norway. But that still does
Speaker 6: make it bright.
Speaker 2: Norway's discovery of oil began a new chapter in the
Speaker 2: nation's story for many, oil became more than just a resource.
Speaker 2: It became a source of pride and identity through work,
Speaker 2: through community, through resources that would benefit everyone. It was
Speaker 2: a true Norwegian success story. Plus, oil workers were seen
Speaker 2: as heroes, the backbone of local economies, and nearly everyone
Speaker 2: knew someone involved in the industry. This close connection made
Speaker 2: oil feel not only normal, but honorable in daily life.
Speaker 2: Yet today that pride exists intention with a growing global
Speaker 2: movement that increasingly vilifies fossil fuels and those who support them.
Speaker 2: International bodies like the United Nations have warned that urgent
Speaker 2: action is needed to phase out fossil fuels to avoid
Speaker 2: catastrophic climate impacts. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the IPCC,
Speaker 2: has repeatedly emphasized the need to reduce oil and gas
Speaker 2: extraction rapidly. Major scientific organizations worldwide echo these calls, underscoring
Speaker 2: the link between fossil fuels and global warming. Climate activists
Speaker 2: and youth movements like Fridays for Future and Extinction Rebellion
Speaker 2: stage protests targeting oil companies and government policies that enable
Speaker 2: fossil fuel expansion, and religious leaders including the late Pope Francis,
Speaker 2: have issued moral appeals to protect the planet and hold
Speaker 2: polluters accountable. International media outlets increasingly report on the climate crisis,
Speaker 2: often highlighting fossil fuels as the primary culprit. Even some
Speaker 2: major financial institutions and pension funds are dive vesting from
Speaker 2: oil and gas companies under pressure from shareholders and public opinion.
Speaker 2: All these voices contribute to a growing narrative that frames
Speaker 2: fossil fuel extraction and consumption as not only environmentally destructive,
Speaker 2: but also ethically unacceptable. Silly paints a picture of the
Speaker 2: response that's been seen to these kinds of critique in
Speaker 2: the past.
Speaker 6: A couple of years back, you had this campaign where
Speaker 6: I think a lot of the oil and gas workers
Speaker 6: were like, well, we're only doing our job here and
Speaker 6: we're trying to do whatever we're told, and was feeling
Speaker 6: like they were being shamed for working within the oil
Speaker 6: and gas industry, even though no one tried to actually
Speaker 6: shame the workers, but tried to take the policies and
Speaker 6: how it's being regulated. But then you ended up with
Speaker 6: this whole campaign that was on social media that was
Speaker 6: called Proud to be an oil Worker. So a lot
Speaker 6: of people changed their profile picks to like proud oil worker,
Speaker 6: and that wouldn't happen in a lot of other countries.
Speaker 6: They wouldn't say that they are proud to work there.
Speaker 2: Cilia's words show just how deeply pride in the oil
Speaker 2: industry runs among many Norwegians. But to fully understand how
Speaker 2: Norway's oil discovery fits into its national psyche, we need
Speaker 2: to look even further back. Norway's cultural routes run deep,
Speaker 2: intertwined with folk tales collected and published during the country's
Speaker 2: nation building era in the eighteen hundreds. At that time,
Speaker 2: Norway had only recently gained independence after centuries under Danish
Speaker 2: and Swedish rule. A huge effort was underway to define
Speaker 2: what it meant to be Norwegian, centered on the idea
Speaker 2: of modern Norway as a resurrection of the ancient Norse kingdom. Poets, playwrights, artists,
Speaker 2: and composers amplified this vision, working to establish the uniqueness
Speaker 2: of Norwegian culture. New traditional national costumes, the Bounud, were devised.
Speaker 2: Inspired by Norway's rural routs. The Norwegian Trekking Association was founded,
Speaker 2: promoting a form of nature nationalism that wove Norwegian identity
Speaker 2: deeply into the country's landscapes and as many Norwegians might
Speaker 2: be surprised to learn. Even the naming of the central
Speaker 2: mountain region Jortenheimen, after the home of the giants in
Speaker 2: Norse mythology, occurred during this formative period less than two
Speaker 2: hundred years ago. As Anakhar and Satha from the Norwegian
Speaker 2: Climate Foundation points out, some of the fairy tales and
Speaker 2: folk songs collected and published to forge a shared cultural narrative,
Speaker 2: like those of espen Uskalad, the clever underdog who always
Speaker 2: overcomes great odds, resonates strongly with how a lot of
Speaker 2: Norwegians interpret their modern relationship with oil.
Speaker 3: Espen Usclad is a very known figure in Norwegian folk tales,
Speaker 3: and I think a lot of people feel like him,
Speaker 3: or they feel like Norway is like espen Askelad. He
Speaker 3: was a poor kid, but he was observant and kind
Speaker 3: and innovative kid. And one of the folk tales about
Speaker 3: him is he finding all these things that is rubbish
Speaker 3: for others but turns out to be really useful for him,
Speaker 3: and he keeps saying, look what I found, Look what
Speaker 3: I found, or I found I found directly translated and
Speaker 3: one of the books on Norwich and oil history is
Speaker 3: called I Found, I Found, So it's really intertwined with
Speaker 3: our folk tale history as well, and us being this
Speaker 3: little kid that was innovative and deserved to become rich
Speaker 3: in some way.
Speaker 2: And this folding in of Norwegian culture and oil continues
Speaker 2: in the naming of platforms and oil fields, as Anacarn explains.
Speaker 3: When Urabu, a former oil and gas minister that is
Speaker 3: now he established his own oil and gas company. Later
Speaker 3: he started a new naming policy for the Norwegian continental
Speaker 3: shelf where you used names of Norwegian heroes on platforms
Speaker 3: like Edvard Grigg the cos He's now a platform, and
Speaker 3: the same goes for the painter and feminist Austa Hunstan
Speaker 3: and famous historical politicians like Johann Swaddri Costbag. They're all
Speaker 3: oil and gassy installations or platforms or fields.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they would have liked it, but
Speaker 3: that's also a part of the storytelling.
Speaker 2: So Norway's traditions and stories are woven into its fossil
Speaker 2: fuel infrastructure, much in the same way that the legends
Speaker 2: of old were assimilated during the nation building period of
Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds. This serves to further embed oil as
Speaker 2: an inseparable part of the national identity and heritage, perpetuating
Speaker 2: a close relationship between people, the industry and its products.
Speaker 2: This deep influence helps explain not only the widespread pride
Speaker 2: and support Norwegians have for the industry, but also the
Speaker 2: strong political backing it enjoys. The flow of jobs, wealth
Speaker 2: and cultural capital creates powerful incentives to maintain the state.
Speaker 2: Let's hear from Board Lan, who coordinates the Oil and
Speaker 2: Society Research Network at the University of Oslo, exploring the
Speaker 2: ways that oil and gas shape Norwegian society.
Speaker 7: There's a lot of quite striking work that shows how
Speaker 7: oil and gas is culturally ingrained in different ways in
Speaker 7: people's kind of everyday lives. And there are very strong
Speaker 7: regional connections to oil and gas right People in the
Speaker 7: Stavanged area, for example, have a strong kind of regional
Speaker 7: identity tied to oil, to the offshore working life, and
Speaker 7: how that shows in so many different ways, and of
Speaker 7: course we see it also in the rest of the
Speaker 7: country in how important, for example, Equinora as a company
Speaker 7: is as a sponsor in all sorts of cultural events,
Speaker 7: sports events, all of these things, and we kind of
Speaker 7: take this for granted, is an important piece in the
Speaker 7: puzzle what is reproducing this strong role of oil and
Speaker 7: gas in Norway?
Speaker 2: So, according to Board equinor formally stat Oil, the state
Speaker 2: owned oil giant, has been busy in this effort since
Speaker 2: the early days of nowise fossil fuel era, funding education programs,
Speaker 2: sponsoring sports and cultural events, youth initiatives, and more, creating
Speaker 2: an almost everywhere presence in public life. Sillier from Oil
Speaker 2: Change International expands on these insights, describing the commonly held
Speaker 2: perception that without oil, none of these public goods nor
Speaker 2: Norway's renowned welfare system would be possible, and that the
Speaker 2: dominant narrative about Norway and the role oil plays in
Speaker 2: its wealth and its international engagements is one that is
Speaker 2: strategically maintained.
Speaker 6: We've been told over and over again that without the
Speaker 6: oil and gas industry we'd be poor. We've been told
Speaker 6: over and over again that the oil and gas industry
Speaker 6: is what built our welfare system, and I think that
Speaker 6: is one of the biggest lies that we've been told.
Speaker 6: Because our welfare system wasn't built off of oil and gas.
Speaker 6: Our welfare system was in place before we found oil.
Speaker 6: We can continue to live very good lives based off
Speaker 6: of that, even after the war, oil and gas is gone,
Speaker 6: but no one tells you that. Most Norwegians, I think,
Speaker 6: think that the day we stop producing oil and gas,
Speaker 6: that day we start to become poor. If you compare
Speaker 6: Norway to a lot of other oil nations, we have
Speaker 6: done some wise choices in terms of not spending all
Speaker 6: of the money, not just allowing the international oil companies
Speaker 6: to come in and do whatever they wanted and then leave.
Speaker 6: And I think based off of that, we've just been
Speaker 6: building this whole narrative on how Norway is like the
Speaker 6: best of the best that has then kind of been
Speaker 6: core to how the oil industry in Norway usually gets
Speaker 6: what it wants. But also because of the whole history
Speaker 6: with Stout Oil or Equinores it's called now, and the
Speaker 6: fact that it was very hard I think, in the
Speaker 6: past to separate Stout Oil and Norway, like to separate
Speaker 6: the two of them, because they were so entwined in
Speaker 6: the past. When people thought about stott Oil, they thought
Speaker 6: about Norway and then they thought this was good, like
Speaker 6: this is who we are. So then for the oil
Speaker 6: and gas industry to ask for something, the narrative that
Speaker 6: was built was that the oil industry wanted what was
Speaker 6: best for Norway, and that whatever was best for Norway
Speaker 6: that was also good for the oil and gas industry,
Speaker 6: so that the stories just were so entwined. This is
Speaker 6: just in recent years we've started to be able to
Speaker 6: like unwine that it definitely comes from the oil and
Speaker 6: gas industry. They are the ones that are still shaping that.
Speaker 2: As we've seen, Norway's culture, values, and social norms shape
Speaker 2: not only how Norwegians see themselves, what they think about
Speaker 2: and don't think about, and what they consider appropriate, but
Speaker 2: also how they understand and respond to climate change. The
Speaker 2: pride and normalcy surrounding the oil industry, a story told
Speaker 2: and lived by so many, creates a powerful lens through
Speaker 2: which people view their place in the world and the
Speaker 2: sense they have of Norway's role in this major international challenge.
Speaker 2: Yet behind this story, our experts claim, lies a complex
Speaker 2: web of influences where oil industry interests work with purpose
Speaker 2: to assert their importance and value to everyday experiences and
Speaker 2: to noise continued prosperity. In the next episode, we'll dig
Speaker 2: deeper into this, exploring so called Petra Ganda, the tactics
Speaker 2: that commentators claim the oil industry uses to shape public
Speaker 2: opinion and cultural stories to protect its own interests and
Speaker 2: maintain business as usual. We'll uncover the scope and scale
Speaker 2: of these activities, how they work, how ingrained they've become,
Speaker 2: and find out what they mean for NOI's ability to
Speaker 2: adapt for the future. All that are more in the
Speaker 2: next episode of The Black Thread. Thanks for listening, and
Speaker 2: catch you next time. The Black Thread is a collaboration
Speaker 2: between Communicating Climate Change and klimacultur. It was written and
Speaker 2: narrated by Dick and Bonvigstone, produced and edited by lever
Speaker 2: Solid Shulearud, and the executive producer was vig Des Bondvik.
Speaker 2: Stone artwork is by Anya Jimushkevich. For more information, see
Speaker 2: the show notes.