1 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:09,039 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome back to Drilled. I'm Amy Westerwaldt. I 2 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: am super excited to be bringing you a new mini 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: series over the next few weeks. It's called The Black Thread. 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: It's about Norway's complicated relationship with its identity as both 5 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: a progressive leader and an oil stage. It's coming at 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: you from the host of the communicating climate change podcast 7 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: Dick and Bonvicstone, and was created in collaboration with the 8 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: Norwegian nonprofit Klima Culter. This is The Black Thread Episode one. 9 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoy it. 10 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 2: Norway a country whose name conjures images of fairytale fjords, 11 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: mighty mountains and northern lights. A place known for its 12 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: great adventurers. It's sagas about Thor and the Vikings and 13 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: its cultural treasures like paintings by Monk, plays by Ibsen 14 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: and music like this by Greek A beautiful soundtrack for 15 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: a nation famous for its natural wonders, clean energy, electric vehicles, 16 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 2: and wealth. So much wealth invested in its citizens' well being, 17 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: happiness and positive impact on the world today, Norway tops 18 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 2: all kinds of global rankings for life quality, happiness, democracy, 19 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 2: political participation, press, freedom, and more. In fact, It's hard 20 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 2: to imagine a more perfect utopia, and yet Norway remains 21 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: a country curiously at odds with its international reputation and 22 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: indeed with its own identity. Despite being legally committed to 23 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: global climate goals, acknowledging the risk of climate change impact 24 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 2: within its borders, and maintaining a self image as a responsible, 25 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: nature loving nation and a champion of human rights, Norway 26 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: continues to drill for oil. In twenty twenty five alone, 27 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,680 Speaker 2: the Norwegian states earnings from its petroleum industry are expected 28 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: to reach around sixty eight billion US dollars, most of 29 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 2: which will be funneled to Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund, known 30 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,239 Speaker 2: colloquially as the Oil Fund, an investment portfolio of around 31 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 2: one point nine trillion dollars that promises to assure Norwegian 32 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 2: wealth long into the future. With nearly one hundred active 33 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 2: oil fields in the North Sea, seventy eight additional discoveries 34 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: earmarked for future activity, and about half of all the 35 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: oil that's ever been found on the Norwegian continental shelf 36 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: still estimated to be in the ground, the industry shows 37 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 2: no signs of slowing down. None of this fits with 38 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 2: the world's view of Norway, or how most Norwegians see themselves. 39 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 2: So what's really going on here, How do identity and 40 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: action come to clash so significantly, and what forces keep 41 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: this contradiction in place. From flagrant fossil fuel advertising and 42 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 2: the revolving doors between the oil industry, politics and the 43 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: boards of major institutions, to oil funded science exhibits for 44 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: children and a widespread reluctance to fully face the consequences 45 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: of their actions. A black thread oil runs through Norwegian 46 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: society and culture, stitching together a complex patchwork of myths, money, manipulation, 47 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: and denial. As a result, wherever you look in Norway, 48 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: oil is not just present, it's accepted as normal, reasonable, 49 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: and even right. Hello and welcome to the Black Thread, 50 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 2: a podcast series unraveling Norway's complex relationship with prosperity, identity, 51 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 2: and responsibility in a warming world. I'm Dickon, a brit 52 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: based in Oslo, the Norwegian capital, As a climate communications 53 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,960 Speaker 2: expert and having published research about how narratives shape public 54 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: opinion and support for climate policies in Norway, I've spent 55 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: a lot of time pondering over the curious dynamics on 56 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: display in this place. I've come to call home. Over 57 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: the next four episodes, I invite you to follow the 58 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 2: black thread with me, as guided by a range of 59 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: experts and industry insiders, I try to understand how these 60 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: conditions are maintained and how Norwegians try to square this circle. 61 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: We'll discover where the logic does and doesn't stand up 62 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: to scrutiny, and even hear how Norwegians might move forward 63 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: towards a future beyond oil and gas. In this first episode, 64 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: we'll meet the Norwegians and explore how social norms and 65 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 2: cultural values shape their identity as a good, caring and 66 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 2: nature loving people. We'll learn what happens when those values 67 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:35,040 Speaker 2: come into conflict with the reality of Norway's outsized impact 68 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 2: on climate change, and discover how and why oil influences 69 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:44,280 Speaker 2: people's response to this dilemma. So let's begin to pull 70 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: on the black thread. 71 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 3: You're not the only one wondering why Norway has had 72 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 3: such a good reputation and it is strange, of course. 73 00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: That's Anikhar And Sather, author, journalist and project manager at 74 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: the Norwegian Climate Foundation NORWI is green think tank. You 75 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: could say. 76 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 3: That we have been an ev front runner the sales 77 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 3: of electric cars. Now we're up at ninety six percent. 78 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 3: That's a good thing. And we have donated to forest 79 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 3: preservation in the world. We are doing international climate and 80 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 3: nature diplomacy, and we try to tell ourselves and the 81 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 3: world that we are helping the climate. But we do 82 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 3: profit on a product that is devastating for the climate. 83 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 3: And the emissions from the wagon oil and gas adds 84 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: up to about ten times as much as the national emissions. 85 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: So we do have a real problem. 86 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: A real problem. Indeed, scientists agree that the world is 87 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 2: hurtling in the wrong direction when it comes to climate change, 88 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 2: which is causing extreme weather events, rising sea levels, and 89 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: the devastation of nature and biodiversity around the world. Across 90 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 2: the globe is costing lives, impacting human health, driving mass migration, 91 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: and even according to the International Monetary Fund, risking economies too. 92 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 2: The main driver of this global challenge is rising carbon 93 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: dioxide or CO two in the atmosphere, primarily driven by 94 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 2: the burning of fossil fuels like oil and gas. As 95 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 2: a result, the United Nations has called for an end 96 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: to fossil fuels and instead for a rapid transformation towards 97 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: renewable energy sources like solar and wind. Even so, the 98 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 2: Norwegian Prime Minister Euana scar Sturdo says there is no 99 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 2: contradiction between Norway's climate efforts and the country's continued expansion 100 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 2: of its fossil fuel industry. 101 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 3: Norwegians like to think of themselves as the good guy, 102 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,040 Speaker 3: a force for good in the world, a small country 103 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 3: doing great things. And some of it's true. We do 104 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 3: spend a lot of money on international aid and develop 105 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 3: and we try to participate on the international scene as 106 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 3: a diplomat and so forth. We are a country pushing 107 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: the environmental and AGAINDA internationally to some extent. So it 108 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 3: has worked really well to think of oil and gas 109 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: as something positive. It's almost as we're doing it just 110 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,679 Speaker 3: to help the world become a better place. 111 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: According to Anakharan, Norway sees itself as a force for 112 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 2: good in the world, a nation striving to make a 113 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,679 Speaker 2: positive difference. But how do you reconcile that with selling 114 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: a product that's driving a global crisis. Back in nineteen 115 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 2: eighty nine, Norway was among the first countries to set 116 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 2: a climate goal, inspired by the concept of sustainable development, 117 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: which was spearheaded by Norway's first female Prime Minister, grow 118 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 2: Harlem Brintland. Norwegians took real pride in their ambitious commitment 119 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: to stabilize their emissions. However, according to Ana Kharan, once 120 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 2: the reality of that commitment sank in, essentially meaning no 121 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 2: further expansion of oil and gas production on the Norwegian 122 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 2: continental shelf, both politicians and the public stepped back from it. Nevertheless, 123 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: with a country electrified largely by hydropower and driven by 124 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: a faith in technological solutions, Norway strove to cut emissions 125 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: inside its borders, ultimately becoming a poster child for green 126 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: growth and sustainable development. Decades later, and despite the ongoing 127 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 2: expansion of their fossil fuel industry, Norwegians continue to express 128 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 2: their deep concern for climate and the environment. Recent polling 129 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 2: from research and advocacy organization Oil Change International shows that 130 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: they rank climate and environmental issues above the likes of education, immigration, 131 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 2: and employment. Meanwhile, oil and energy concerns rank far lower, 132 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: only eleven percent of people see them as top priorities. 133 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: Something here doesn't add up. If Norwegians feel so strongly 134 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: about protecting the environment and they know oil is a 135 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 2: major part of the problem, since they've worked hard to 136 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,959 Speaker 2: transform their own society away from using it. What's behind 137 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: the disconnect? To explore this, let's turn to sociologists Carry Norgard, 138 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: whose book Living in Denial sheds light on the cultural 139 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 2: challenges Norwegian's face as they grapple with their role in 140 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: the global climate crisis. 141 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 4: What we do and don't think about is very much 142 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 4: shaped by our collective context, both our social interactions and 143 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 4: the kinds of cultural stories that we tell ourselves about 144 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 4: how the world works, about what's happening, and the kind 145 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 4: of cultural tools that we use or have access to. 146 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 4: If we don't want to think about something, what's socially 147 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 4: acceptable and what's not? 148 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: So, what is it that's within the source code of 149 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: Norwegian society and culture that allows this contradiction to continue. 150 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: Let's dig into the academic literature for a bit of 151 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,319 Speaker 2: background on this place, its inhabitants, and particularly their relationship 152 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: to nature. Norway is about the same size Poland or 153 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: Vietnam three hundred and twenty four thousand square kilometers, but 154 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,960 Speaker 2: with a national population of just five and a half 155 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: million people, it's mostly wild. Only three percent of the 156 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: land is suitable for farming, Around a quarter is forest 157 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: and less than one percent is actually urbanized. The rest 158 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: of the country, about seventy percent of it is made 159 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 2: up of mountains, lakes, and bogs, and that vast, untamed 160 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: landscape is a huge source of national pride. In fact, 161 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 2: for many Norwegians, nature isn't just scenery, its identity, its heritage. 162 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 2: Nature is often seen as a birthright, something every child 163 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 2: should grow up with and within. There's even a word 164 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: for that free lift sleeve. The outdoor life hiking, skiing, climbing, canoeing, 165 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: et cetera. Being in nature isn't just a pastime, it's 166 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 2: part of being Norwegian. The late sociologist Thomas Holland Eriksson 167 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: claimed that a Norwegian who doesn't get out into nature 168 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,719 Speaker 2: might be seen as a poor specimen by their fellow citizens. 169 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 2: The special Norwegian relationship to the outdoors is summed up 170 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 2: often in the classic saying the Finish ka doolivad barda 171 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: dor lei klad. There's no such thing as bad weather, 172 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: just bad clothes. Basically, being prepared, understanding the elements and 173 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: having the skills and the grit to endure them no 174 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: matter what they might be is deeply ingrained in the 175 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,719 Speaker 2: Norwegian psyche and in the way outsiders think about Norwegians too. 176 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 2: As Carrie Norgard explains, Norway's connection to the outdoors is 177 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 2: rather unique. 178 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 4: This is a place where to me it does seem 179 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 4: really clear that the natural world in the long time 180 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 4: connection with the natural world is a distinct thing for 181 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 4: Norwegians and certainly is something that's different. You know, sure, 182 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 4: Finland and parts of Russia and Sweden have a lot 183 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 4: of contact with the natural world, but if you look 184 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,599 Speaker 4: throughout Europe, not everybody has so much as people do 185 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 4: in Norway. I think it's immediately apparent, and it's immediately 186 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 4: apparent when you look at things like you know of 187 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 4: time that people still spend doing outdoor activities, going to huts, 188 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 4: going to the ocean, going to the mountains, going skiing. 189 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 4: This creates a kind of self sufficiency and people of 190 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 4: values around self sufficiency. There is a sense of connection 191 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 4: to the natural world that is affirmed through activities like 192 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 4: walking in the mountains, sometimes by yourself for days at 193 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 4: a time. This sense of simplicity, this sense of innocence 194 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 4: that can come from both culturally recreating it, but experiencing 195 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 4: oneself in this way, it can be a strong jumping 196 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 4: off point. Those connections with the natural world is an 197 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 4: opportunity to care about it, to know about it, to 198 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 4: make observations, to have your sense of security and your 199 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 4: sense of identity rooted in the winter, in the summer, 200 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 4: in the activities that you do, even the bodily sensations 201 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 4: of jumping into the ocean, or the bodily sensation of 202 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 4: knowing how to dress in the winter for skiing and 203 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 4: knowing how to move your body across snow in the winter, 204 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 4: there creates a very strong sense of identity and community. 205 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 2: With a long history of public access to land and 206 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 2: natural resources, today Norwegian's right to roam what they call 207 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: alamans Redden is protected by law. Everyone has the right 208 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: to walk, swim, camp and forage pretty much anywhere, even 209 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,599 Speaker 2: on private property. There's a real sense that Norway and 210 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: its resources are for everyone. That means if you're out 211 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 2: in the woods and you find a patch of wild 212 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: berries or mushrooms, you can pick them. Of course, initially 213 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 2: my British instinct was to grab every single chanterelle mushroom 214 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 2: I saw, because why not? Them's the rules and find 215 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 2: as keepers. But as my pockets filled up and I 216 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 2: rummaged in my backpack to make space for more, my 217 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,640 Speaker 2: Norwegian wife stopped me. What are you doing? She said, 218 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 2: we don't need more, just leave the rest for the 219 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 2: next person that comes along. It was a moment that 220 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: stuck with me ever since, because it speaks to something 221 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: deeper that there are unspoken rules here, a quiet ethic 222 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 2: of fairness, of sharing, of prioritizing the collective over the individual. 223 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 2: And that brings us to Yantlouvin, a silent set of 224 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 2: rules that Norwegians live by. You can think of yant 225 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 2: to Lauvn as a social code that works to keep 226 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 2: people humble. Nobody should be so bold as to think 227 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 2: that they're better than anyone else or deserving of more. 228 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,320 Speaker 2: It's a culture where people don't tend to show off, 229 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 2: don't speak up unless they have something to say, don't 230 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 2: push themselves forward, and rarely make bold claims. That might 231 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 2: sound cold from the outside, but in Norway's part of 232 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: a strong, quiet social fabric, one where fitting in matters 233 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 2: more than standing out. Here's carrying Norgard to tell us more. 234 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 4: Jante Lavin would be again sort of a cultural code 235 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 4: around not sticking your neck out, around not thinking too 236 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 4: much of yourself. It's a code that creates conformity and humility, 237 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 4: and you know, it's harder to critique. If you make 238 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:08,359 Speaker 4: a social critique, it's seen as rude, it's seen as inappropriate, 239 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 4: it's seen as thinking that you're smarter than other people. 240 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 4: And I'm sure that that is part of what can 241 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 4: make breaking out of the box around conversations on climate 242 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 4: change just seem more inappropriate in the best of circumstances, 243 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,760 Speaker 4: the very best of circumstances, talking about climate change is terrifying. 244 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 4: It's very difficult, it's beyond difficult. It's very disturbing at 245 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 4: every level. And then if you have it that it's 246 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 4: socially inappropriate, that you're breaking social norms on top of it, 247 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 4: it becomes a way of dismissing the point of view 248 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 4: right in order to have the conversation. There's just a 249 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 4: much narrower set of things that are acceptable to talk 250 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,040 Speaker 4: about ways that is acceptable to approach your problem, and 251 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 4: that would be a major limitation. It's not that Norwegians 252 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 4: are not thoughtful, kind people, it's just that that's just 253 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 4: not how things are done in most cases, so. 254 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 2: We can imagine how Janthelovin could contribute to people not 255 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: sticking their necks out, not wanting to rock the boat. 256 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,080 Speaker 2: But not only a Norwegians absolutely kind and thoughtful, they're 257 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 2: also highly cooperative. Norwegian identity is typically described as practical, calm, 258 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 2: conflict shy, and emotionally reserved, but it's also built on 259 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: a strong sense of collective responsibility and collective action for 260 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: the greater good of the group or for society at large. 261 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: There's even a word for that too, dougnad. 262 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 4: So dugnad just to define it is this idea of 263 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 4: collective purpose, of that you contribute to, volunteer actions that 264 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 4: we have, that people have to take care of each 265 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 4: other in some way. It's a way of creating a 266 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 4: sense of responsibility to participate in a project. I mean, 267 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 4: the first way that I was introduced to it was 268 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 4: in the community where I was staying when I did 269 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 4: the work on living in Denial, and there was a 270 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 4: barn that needed to be taken down, and so all 271 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 4: the neighboring farmers brought their tractors and other equipment over 272 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:05,440 Speaker 4: and by the end of the day the barn was 273 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 4: on the ground, and then everybody was eating food and 274 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 4: drinking and celebrating together and having a wonderful community experience. 275 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,639 Speaker 2: It's an old tradition shaped by the landscape itself. In 276 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 2: a country of scattered settlements and challenging terrain, communities had 277 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 2: to rely on each other. You couldn't go it alone. 278 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 2: So dugnot isn't just about getting things done. It's about 279 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: being part of something, doing your bit, whether it's cleaning 280 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 2: local beaches, tidying up shared apartment gardens, or going into 281 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 2: lockdown during the pandemic. Nobody is above it. In this way, 282 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 2: dougnot is also anti class, which really speaks to the 283 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 2: sense among Norwegians of egalitarianism and equality. Everyone benefits from 284 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 2: the collective commitment, but like so much in Norway, it's 285 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 2: rarely spoken about. But it's there, part of the quiet 286 00:17:55,480 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: social code, alongside Alamansreddin, alongside Yanthelovnri but deeply understood. So 287 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: that was your crash course into some of the fundamentals 288 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: of Norwegian society and culture. But carries work in Norway 289 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: specifically sought to uncover the mechanics of climate denial. So 290 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 2: how is it that deeply rooted rules, norms and ways 291 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: of being like those we've just discussed, can contribute to 292 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 2: what seems like such an obvious paradox. 293 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 4: When you study sometimes something that says threat to society, 294 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 4: it becomes a moment where you can see how things work. 295 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 4: And so taking climate change as an example of how 296 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 4: the social organization of denial operates, we can see in 297 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 4: a Norwegian context, there's values of egalitarianism, there's values of 298 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 4: human rights, there's values of connection to nature. There's a 299 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 4: strong sense of moral code, there's a sense of collective purpose. 300 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 4: And those are wonderful things, absolutely wonderful qualities that I 301 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 4: wish more countries had. But I think one thing that's 302 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 4: important to realize is as much as these are potentially 303 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 4: very positive qualities, really critically essential qualities when it comes 304 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 4: to solving a large global environmental human rights problem like 305 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 4: climate change, that if we think about psychological principles like 306 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:24,320 Speaker 4: cognitive dissonance, for example, we can also see where they 307 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 4: can be like an achilles heel. 308 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,720 Speaker 2: Cognitive dissonance is the feeling of being stuck between what 309 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 2: you believe and how you feel, often in relation to 310 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 2: some actions that you've taken. It's kind of a mental 311 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 2: tension that makes it hard to fully face a problem 312 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:43,680 Speaker 2: or take strong action to fix it. Sometimes, learning new information, 313 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: for example, that the emissions associated with your national oil 314 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 2: industry are driving climate change, can lead to the discomfort 315 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 2: of cognitive dissonance. People sometimes deal with this by finding 316 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 2: ways to justify their behaviors or finding ways to discredit 317 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 2: or ignore that new information. This may explain the great 318 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: confidence many Norwegians have in a slew of as of 319 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: yet unproven technological solutions to the challenge of rising emissions, 320 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 2: and the fact that in recent years, at the same 321 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 2: time as ranking environmental issues highly in its list of priorities, 322 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 2: Norway has also ranked as having some of the highest 323 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 2: climate denial rates in the world. Let's hear from Carrie 324 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 2: Norgard about how their national virtues, values and norms come 325 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,159 Speaker 2: back to bite Norwegians. 326 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 4: If you take at the individual level, how those are 327 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 4: in conflict with emotions that people share come up for 328 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 4: them talking about climate change, such as guilt, such as 329 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,640 Speaker 4: fear about the future, such as a sense of helplessness. 330 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 4: You have these three emotions that really come into conflict 331 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 4: for people with these ideas of how they see themselves 332 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 4: as morally good as strong environmentalists, so circling back to 333 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 4: the idea of Yontloven and that it's socially unacceptable to 334 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 4: break out of a mold that becomes a cultural tool 335 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 4: that you can wield to attack someone by their personality 336 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 4: rather than having to deal with the uncomfortable thing that's 337 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 4: being proposed. Sociology talks about three levels of social organization, 338 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,679 Speaker 4: and the processes of denial cuts across these three levels, 339 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,719 Speaker 4: which are the individual level where we have psychological constructs, 340 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 4: the cultural level, where we have social interactions and cultural 341 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 4: norms and cultural tools that we use to recreate culture, 342 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 4: and then the larger macro level, which is kind of 343 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 4: the political economy and where you have things like in 344 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 4: Norway that it's a capitalist society that's organized around fossil 345 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 4: fuel production, and how those levels of social organization shape 346 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 4: what people do and don't think about, and what is 347 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,240 Speaker 4: potentially problematic to think or not think about. 348 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 2: So, according to Carrie Norwegians are proud of being kind 349 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 2: and caring about each other, about nature, and about being 350 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 2: a force for the greater good, but their role as 351 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 2: an oil nation driving global climate change can bring up 352 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: feelings of guilt, helplessness, or fear it clashes with how 353 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 2: they see themselves as good and responsible people, leading them 354 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 2: to potentially reject the reality due to cognitive dissonance, or 355 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,639 Speaker 2: otherwise discredit those who voice that there might be a 356 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 2: problem as being culturally deviant and thinking they're smarter than 357 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 2: the rest. As we've learned, that's a big no no 358 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,360 Speaker 2: in Norway. Something else that's worth adding is that Norway's 359 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 2: small communities, even within its major cities, create overlapping social 360 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 2: networks where almost everyone is connected in some way. As 361 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,760 Speaker 2: a result, you might hesitate to criticize the service at 362 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 2: a restaurant because the waiter is friends with someone in 363 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 2: your extended family, or avoid commenting on a new local 364 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: development because your neighbour is involved. In casual conversation, people 365 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 2: often leave out identifying details like company names or surnames 366 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 2: because the people on the adjacent table, or next in line, 367 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 2: or sitting nearby on the bus might share social connections 368 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 2: in some way. The result is a pervasive self censorship 369 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,479 Speaker 2: that I simply haven't encountered anywhere else. While this can 370 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 2: make everyday interactions smoother, it also means important but difficult conversations, 371 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 2: for example, dissatisfaction with a colleague's conduct or Indeed, critiques 372 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 2: of the oil industry often never happen, but the story 373 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: doesn't end there. These inner conflicts are made even more 374 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 2: complex by the fact that oil isn't just an abstract problem. 375 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 2: It's also a huge part of everyday life. Let's take 376 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 2: a step back and hear how it all began. In 377 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine, oil sprung into the picture on the 378 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 2: website of Equinor, Norway's national oil company. It reads the 379 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: same year that humans landed on the Moon, taking their 380 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 2: first steps out into the stars. What was then the 381 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 2: world's largest offshore oil field was discovered in Norway's subsurface 382 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 2: universe on the continental shelf. The discovery of Ecofisk, that 383 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: oil field southwest of the city of Stavanga on Norway's 384 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 2: west coast, offered vast opportunities for Little Norway to expand 385 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 2: on our understanding of those early days. Here's Yanik Lindbag, 386 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:18,680 Speaker 2: executive vice president for Communications at Equinor. 387 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 5: Oil was discovered late sixties, and then the Parliament set 388 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 5: the principles for the development of natural resources that was found. 389 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 5: These principles have served Norway really well. The political choices 390 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 5: that were made was able to make sure that the 391 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 5: resources was developed in a way that benefited the whole 392 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:39,880 Speaker 5: of society, and that was the political aim at the time. 393 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 5: And as part of that, it was also a choice 394 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,719 Speaker 5: to establish a national oil company which was Statoil at 395 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,919 Speaker 5: the time, which is now Equinora. Obviously, for as long 396 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 5: as it was one hundred percent state on it was 397 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 5: obviously every Norwegians property. Now the Norwegians share that interest 398 00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 5: with some other shareholders, but still it's received to be 399 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 5: company of the people, owned by the people, and supposed 400 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 5: to act in favor of public ambitions and goals. 401 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 2: You can really hear how oil fits into the Norwegian 402 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 2: sense of the nation's resources being for everyone's benefit. Berries, mushrooms, 403 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 2: fossil fuels, same same. But of course oil didn't just 404 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: mean resources, it also meant jobs. According to Norse Petroleum, 405 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 2: almost seven percent of the Norwegian workforce was directly or 406 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 2: indirectly employed in the petroleum industry in twenty twenty three. 407 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 2: What kind of impact might that have on the way 408 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 2: that Norwegians think and talk about oil, Silia ask Lundberg, 409 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,440 Speaker 2: heads up North Sea Activities at research and advocacy organization 410 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 2: oil Change International, who work to expose the true costs 411 00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 2: of fossil fuels and facilitate a just transition to clean energy. 412 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 2: Cilia shares some insight on the influence of oil on 413 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 2: Norway's workforce and society. 414 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 6: Norways such a small country, so it's been like fifty 415 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,480 Speaker 6: six years since found the first oil and during that time, 416 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 6: since we are such a small country, almost everyone in 417 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 6: Norway knows someone who works within the oil industry, who 418 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 6: works offshore, or who benefits from the oil and gas 419 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 6: industry in some way. And then in addition the fact 420 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,359 Speaker 6: that our oil and gas industry is happening offshore, that 421 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 6: also is kind of like out of sight, out of mind. 422 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 6: But what we do see is the money flowing in. 423 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 6: We see how people that we know earn a lot 424 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 6: of money, how they work very good hours. The social 425 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 6: license of the oil and gas industry in Norway is 426 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 6: super high. I mean it has been even higher than 427 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 6: what it is today. Close to twenty years ago you 428 00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 6: had some pulling off for Norway. One of their questions 429 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,639 Speaker 6: were like, are you proud to be Norwegian because of 430 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 6: equinor or because of Stottle as it was called them 431 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 6: eighty percent or something of who they asked was like, yes, 432 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 6: super proud, and that was because we all knew someone 433 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 6: who worked there, and I mean they did a brilliant 434 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 6: job and they were good and we all saw the money. 435 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 6: So I think it's so into like the Norwegian soul 436 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 6: almost for the past fifty years. 437 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 2: But it wasn't just the oil workers and their families 438 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 2: who were enjoying these boom times, as Anakhar and Sava explains, for. 439 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 3: The politicians, it was like living a dream when you 440 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 3: could open all these new hospitals and kindergartens and so forth. 441 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,359 Speaker 3: It was hard to say no to all this money 442 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 3: coming in. So then I guess this pride was growing 443 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 3: and people were noticing to a greater extent, and that 444 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,879 Speaker 3: was sort of the Christmas present of all times. 445 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,360 Speaker 2: So a big social norm developed around working in oil too, 446 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 2: and that reaches through to the present day. In fact, Equinor, 447 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: the Norwegian National Oil Company, was awarded most attractive employer 448 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 2: in Norway last year, and not for the first time. 449 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: To many out ciders, particularly those deeply concerned about the 450 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 2: worsening trajectory of climate change, this may sound bizarre even obscene, 451 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 2: But it's really just the tip of the iceberg of 452 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: how visible and normalized fossil fuel employment, advertising and activities 453 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: are in Norway. Just this summer, for example, I came 454 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: across a huge set of info boards in the middle 455 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 2: of a small town in the north of the country. 456 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 2: These boards were promoting another major oil company, KERBP. The 457 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 2: boards explained that it was a great place to work, 458 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 2: that it had ambitious plans to employ more women, and 459 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 2: that it was excited about a project where fossil fuel 460 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 2: production begins in twenty twenty seven and was stretched to 461 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: quote twenty forty and beyond. They also stated how proud 462 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 2: they were of the work that they were doing. This 463 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 2: is in public, out loud and proud. It sort of 464 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 2: makes sense then that the very idea of shutting off 465 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: the pumps, as advocated for by scientists, the un vulnerable 466 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 2: nations bearing the brunt of climate change and so many others, 467 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,360 Speaker 2: remains unthinkable to many Norwegians who still see oil as 468 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 2: a lifeline, and not just for the country itself but 469 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 2: for the world. Here's Celia ask Lundberg from Oil Change 470 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 2: International again to explain it's in road that. 471 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,080 Speaker 6: If you take the life live from an average man, 472 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 6: then you take his happiness as well. And I think 473 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 6: that is very true about the Norwegian relationship to the 474 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 6: oil and gas industry. One of our former pms Gruhale 475 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 6: and Brintlam, which has an insane amount of status symbol 476 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 6: in Norway, she was dubbed a nation's mother. She said, 477 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 6: it's typical Norwegian to be good, and I think those 478 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 6: two kind of go very well together, because we've been 479 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 6: told over and over and over. 480 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 4: Again that we're good. 481 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 6: We only have good intentions, we only do the right thing, 482 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 6: we have beautiful nature, we're so nice, we spend a 483 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 6: lot of money on aid. 484 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 4: We're good. 485 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 6: And our oil and gas industry, well, that's wonderful. It's colleen, 486 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 6: it's brilliant. We have had very good regulations of the 487 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 6: winning gas industry, so that when regulating the industry, politicians 488 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 6: have done a lot of good choices. We have had 489 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 6: a lot of tougher environmental demands than in any other country. 490 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 6: I mean, that is why the emission per produced barrel 491 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 6: is so much lower in Norway. But that still does 492 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 6: make it bright. 493 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 2: Norway's discovery of oil began a new chapter in the 494 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: nation's story for many, oil became more than just a resource. 495 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: It became a source of pride and identity through work, 496 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 2: through community, through resources that would benefit everyone. It was 497 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 2: a true Norwegian success story. Plus, oil workers were seen 498 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 2: as heroes, the backbone of local economies, and nearly everyone 499 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: knew someone involved in the industry. This close connection made 500 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 2: oil feel not only normal, but honorable in daily life. 501 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 2: Yet today that pride exists intention with a growing global 502 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 2: movement that increasingly vilifies fossil fuels and those who support them. 503 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 2: International bodies like the United Nations have warned that urgent 504 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,479 Speaker 2: action is needed to phase out fossil fuels to avoid 505 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 2: catastrophic climate impacts. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the IPCC, 506 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 2: has repeatedly emphasized the need to reduce oil and gas 507 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 2: extraction rapidly. Major scientific organizations worldwide echo these calls, underscoring 508 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 2: the link between fossil fuels and global warming. Climate activists 509 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,440 Speaker 2: and youth movements like Fridays for Future and Extinction Rebellion 510 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 2: stage protests targeting oil companies and government policies that enable 511 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: fossil fuel expansion, and religious leaders including the late Pope Francis, 512 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: have issued moral appeals to protect the planet and hold 513 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 2: polluters accountable. International media outlets increasingly report on the climate crisis, 514 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 2: often highlighting fossil fuels as the primary culprit. Even some 515 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 2: major financial institutions and pension funds are dive vesting from 516 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 2: oil and gas companies under pressure from shareholders and public opinion. 517 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 2: All these voices contribute to a growing narrative that frames 518 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 2: fossil fuel extraction and consumption as not only environmentally destructive, 519 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 2: but also ethically unacceptable. Silly paints a picture of the 520 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 2: response that's been seen to these kinds of critique in 521 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 2: the past. 522 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 6: A couple of years back, you had this campaign where 523 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 6: I think a lot of the oil and gas workers 524 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 6: were like, well, we're only doing our job here and 525 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 6: we're trying to do whatever we're told, and was feeling 526 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 6: like they were being shamed for working within the oil 527 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 6: and gas industry, even though no one tried to actually 528 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 6: shame the workers, but tried to take the policies and 529 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 6: how it's being regulated. But then you ended up with 530 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 6: this whole campaign that was on social media that was 531 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 6: called Proud to be an oil Worker. So a lot 532 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 6: of people changed their profile picks to like proud oil worker, 533 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 6: and that wouldn't happen in a lot of other countries. 534 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,920 Speaker 6: They wouldn't say that they are proud to work there. 535 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 2: Cilia's words show just how deeply pride in the oil 536 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 2: industry runs among many Norwegians. But to fully understand how 537 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 2: Norway's oil discovery fits into its national psyche, we need 538 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 2: to look even further back. Norway's cultural routes run deep, 539 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,160 Speaker 2: intertwined with folk tales collected and published during the country's 540 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: nation building era in the eighteen hundreds. At that time, 541 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 2: Norway had only recently gained independence after centuries under Danish 542 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 2: and Swedish rule. A huge effort was underway to define 543 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 2: what it meant to be Norwegian, centered on the idea 544 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 2: of modern Norway as a resurrection of the ancient Norse kingdom. Poets, playwrights, artists, 545 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 2: and composers amplified this vision, working to establish the uniqueness 546 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 2: of Norwegian culture. New traditional national costumes, the Bounud, were devised. 547 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 2: Inspired by Norway's rural routs. The Norwegian Trekking Association was founded, 548 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 2: promoting a form of nature nationalism that wove Norwegian identity 549 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,840 Speaker 2: deeply into the country's landscapes and as many Norwegians might 550 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,719 Speaker 2: be surprised to learn. Even the naming of the central 551 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 2: mountain region Jortenheimen, after the home of the giants in 552 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 2: Norse mythology, occurred during this formative period less than two 553 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 2: hundred years ago. As Anakhar and Satha from the Norwegian 554 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 2: Climate Foundation points out, some of the fairy tales and 555 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 2: folk songs collected and published to forge a shared cultural narrative, 556 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 2: like those of espen Uskalad, the clever underdog who always 557 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 2: overcomes great odds, resonates strongly with how a lot of 558 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 2: Norwegians interpret their modern relationship with oil. 559 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 3: Espen Usclad is a very known figure in Norwegian folk tales, 560 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,399 Speaker 3: and I think a lot of people feel like him, 561 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 3: or they feel like Norway is like espen Askelad. He 562 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 3: was a poor kid, but he was observant and kind 563 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 3: and innovative kid. And one of the folk tales about 564 00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 3: him is he finding all these things that is rubbish 565 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 3: for others but turns out to be really useful for him, 566 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,600 Speaker 3: and he keeps saying, look what I found, Look what 567 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:10,840 Speaker 3: I found, or I found I found directly translated and 568 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 3: one of the books on Norwich and oil history is 569 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 3: called I Found, I Found, So it's really intertwined with 570 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,880 Speaker 3: our folk tale history as well, and us being this 571 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 3: little kid that was innovative and deserved to become rich 572 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 3: in some way. 573 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 2: And this folding in of Norwegian culture and oil continues 574 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 2: in the naming of platforms and oil fields, as Anacarn explains. 575 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 3: When Urabu, a former oil and gas minister that is 576 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 3: now he established his own oil and gas company. Later 577 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:51,440 Speaker 3: he started a new naming policy for the Norwegian continental 578 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 3: shelf where you used names of Norwegian heroes on platforms 579 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 3: like Edvard Grigg the cos He's now a platform, and 580 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 3: the same goes for the painter and feminist Austa Hunstan 581 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:14,000 Speaker 3: and famous historical politicians like Johann Swaddri Costbag. They're all 582 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 3: oil and gassy installations or platforms or fields. 583 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 2: Now. 584 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,719 Speaker 3: I don't know if they would have liked it, but 585 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 3: that's also a part of the storytelling. 586 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,320 Speaker 2: So Norway's traditions and stories are woven into its fossil 587 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 2: fuel infrastructure, much in the same way that the legends 588 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,279 Speaker 2: of old were assimilated during the nation building period of 589 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,640 Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds. This serves to further embed oil as 590 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 2: an inseparable part of the national identity and heritage, perpetuating 591 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 2: a close relationship between people, the industry and its products. 592 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 2: This deep influence helps explain not only the widespread pride 593 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 2: and support Norwegians have for the industry, but also the 594 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 2: strong political backing it enjoys. The flow of jobs, wealth 595 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 2: and cultural capital creates powerful incentives to maintain the state. 596 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 2: Let's hear from Board Lan, who coordinates the Oil and 597 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 2: Society Research Network at the University of Oslo, exploring the 598 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,800 Speaker 2: ways that oil and gas shape Norwegian society. 599 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,520 Speaker 7: There's a lot of quite striking work that shows how 600 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 7: oil and gas is culturally ingrained in different ways in 601 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 7: people's kind of everyday lives. And there are very strong 602 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:25,200 Speaker 7: regional connections to oil and gas right People in the 603 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 7: Stavanged area, for example, have a strong kind of regional 604 00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 7: identity tied to oil, to the offshore working life, and 605 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 7: how that shows in so many different ways, and of 606 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 7: course we see it also in the rest of the 607 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 7: country in how important, for example, Equinora as a company 608 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 7: is as a sponsor in all sorts of cultural events, 609 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 7: sports events, all of these things, and we kind of 610 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 7: take this for granted, is an important piece in the 611 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,840 Speaker 7: puzzle what is reproducing this strong role of oil and 612 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 7: gas in Norway? 613 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 2: So, according to Board equinor formally stat Oil, the state 614 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 2: owned oil giant, has been busy in this effort since 615 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 2: the early days of nowise fossil fuel era, funding education programs, 616 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 2: sponsoring sports and cultural events, youth initiatives, and more, creating 617 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 2: an almost everywhere presence in public life. Sillier from Oil 618 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 2: Change International expands on these insights, describing the commonly held 619 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,719 Speaker 2: perception that without oil, none of these public goods nor 620 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 2: Norway's renowned welfare system would be possible, and that the 621 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 2: dominant narrative about Norway and the role oil plays in 622 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 2: its wealth and its international engagements is one that is 623 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 2: strategically maintained. 624 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 6: We've been told over and over again that without the 625 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 6: oil and gas industry we'd be poor. We've been told 626 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,840 Speaker 6: over and over again that the oil and gas industry 627 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 6: is what built our welfare system, and I think that 628 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,920 Speaker 6: is one of the biggest lies that we've been told. 629 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 6: Because our welfare system wasn't built off of oil and gas. 630 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,720 Speaker 6: Our welfare system was in place before we found oil. 631 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:58,319 Speaker 6: We can continue to live very good lives based off 632 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 6: of that, even after the war, oil and gas is gone, 633 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 6: but no one tells you that. Most Norwegians, I think, 634 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,520 Speaker 6: think that the day we stop producing oil and gas, 635 00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,800 Speaker 6: that day we start to become poor. If you compare 636 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,520 Speaker 6: Norway to a lot of other oil nations, we have 637 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 6: done some wise choices in terms of not spending all 638 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:22,240 Speaker 6: of the money, not just allowing the international oil companies 639 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,759 Speaker 6: to come in and do whatever they wanted and then leave. 640 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 6: And I think based off of that, we've just been 641 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 6: building this whole narrative on how Norway is like the 642 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,839 Speaker 6: best of the best that has then kind of been 643 00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,239 Speaker 6: core to how the oil industry in Norway usually gets 644 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 6: what it wants. But also because of the whole history 645 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 6: with Stout Oil or Equinores it's called now, and the 646 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 6: fact that it was very hard I think, in the 647 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,680 Speaker 6: past to separate Stout Oil and Norway, like to separate 648 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 6: the two of them, because they were so entwined in 649 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 6: the past. When people thought about stott Oil, they thought 650 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 6: about Norway and then they thought this was good, like 651 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 6: this is who we are. So then for the oil 652 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,520 Speaker 6: and gas industry to ask for something, the narrative that 653 00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 6: was built was that the oil industry wanted what was 654 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 6: best for Norway, and that whatever was best for Norway 655 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,440 Speaker 6: that was also good for the oil and gas industry, 656 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 6: so that the stories just were so entwined. This is 657 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,279 Speaker 6: just in recent years we've started to be able to 658 00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 6: like unwine that it definitely comes from the oil and 659 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 6: gas industry. They are the ones that are still shaping that. 660 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:39,720 Speaker 2: As we've seen, Norway's culture, values, and social norms shape 661 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:42,760 Speaker 2: not only how Norwegians see themselves, what they think about 662 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 2: and don't think about, and what they consider appropriate, but 663 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,960 Speaker 2: also how they understand and respond to climate change. The 664 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 2: pride and normalcy surrounding the oil industry, a story told 665 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 2: and lived by so many, creates a powerful lens through 666 00:40:57,120 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 2: which people view their place in the world and the 667 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 2: sense they have of Norway's role in this major international challenge. 668 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,760 Speaker 2: Yet behind this story, our experts claim, lies a complex 669 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,360 Speaker 2: web of influences where oil industry interests work with purpose 670 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 2: to assert their importance and value to everyday experiences and 671 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 2: to noise continued prosperity. In the next episode, we'll dig 672 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 2: deeper into this, exploring so called Petra Ganda, the tactics 673 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,360 Speaker 2: that commentators claim the oil industry uses to shape public 674 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 2: opinion and cultural stories to protect its own interests and 675 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 2: maintain business as usual. We'll uncover the scope and scale 676 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 2: of these activities, how they work, how ingrained they've become, 677 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:38,920 Speaker 2: and find out what they mean for NOI's ability to 678 00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 2: adapt for the future. All that are more in the 679 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 2: next episode of The Black Thread. Thanks for listening, and 680 00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:52,440 Speaker 2: catch you next time. The Black Thread is a collaboration 681 00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 2: between Communicating Climate Change and klimacultur. It was written and 682 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,239 Speaker 2: narrated by Dick and Bonvigstone, produced and edited by lever 683 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 2: Solid Shulearud, and the executive producer was vig Des Bondvik. 684 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,399 Speaker 2: Stone artwork is by Anya Jimushkevich. For more information, see 685 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 2: the show notes.