1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Today's episode discusses the death of an individual. If this 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: type of information upsets you, this is not the show 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: for you. Welcome to Mayhem and the More with their host, 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: doctor Kindo Krans. Over a decade ago, I started doing 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: career days at my children's schools. I did this in 6 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: part to hang out with my kids and see them 7 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: at school and maybe go out to lunch with them, 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:32,239 Speaker 1: But my other reason was to tell people about the 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: field of forensic pathology. Not a lot of people even 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: fully realize what forensic pathologists do beyond what they've seen 11 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: on TV, and they really don't know much about medical examiners. 12 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: When I tell people I'm a medical examiner, a lot 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: of people think I work in the meat industry, expecting 14 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: meat like for the FDA. Other people think I work 15 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,639 Speaker 1: for funeral homes as m Bomber. People also think I'm 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 1: a coroner, and a lot of people don't even realize 17 00:00:56,920 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: I have a medical degree. I've had numerous career days 18 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: where students were shocked to find out how much education 19 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 1: they needed to become a forensic pathologist. I've even had 20 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: medical students tell me in their last year of medical 21 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: school that they had no idea forensic pathology existed and 22 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: wish they had known about it when they got into 23 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 1: medical school because they would have taken steps to go 24 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: into forensic pathology instead of the career that they had 25 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: chose to go into. The thing about it is is 26 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: there is a shortage nationwide a forensic pathologists. There are 27 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: only four hundred to five hundred board certified pathologists in 28 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: the United States, and every year more and more retiring 29 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: and not enough new forensic pathologists are graduating to keep 30 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: up with the loss. After four years of med school 31 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: is another three to four years of residency in a 32 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: year of sub specialization to become a friends of pathologist. 33 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: It takes longer to create a forensic pathologist than it 34 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: does a baby elephant. My intention with the Career Days 35 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: was not to just hang out with my kids, but 36 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: to spread the word about how wonderful a job forensic 37 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: pathology really is. And I figured by getting involved in 38 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: Career Days, I can inform kids about my job and 39 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: get them interested in it, and maybe someone would find 40 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: it interesting enough to pursue like I did way back 41 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: when I was in ninth grade and was introduced to 42 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: the field of forensic pathology. And my career day presentation 43 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: is a PowerPoint presentation full of pictures, so I have 44 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: different versions of it depending on what grade level I'm teaching. 45 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: I have one for grade schoolers, one for medal schoolers, 46 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: one for high schools, and finally one for college. Basically, 47 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: as the grade level goes up, the talk becomes increasingly 48 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: more graphic, and it is the most graphic once they 49 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: get into the college age range. Now with grade schoolers, 50 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: the most graphic thing they see as an X ray 51 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: of a head with a bullet in it. How I 52 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: went about deciding which pictures to use was partially based 53 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: on an interview I saw with Steven Spielberg. He was 54 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: discussing the movie Jaws in this interview, and he stated 55 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: that it built more tension and made the movie more 56 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: scary to give the perception of the monster in this case, 57 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: of course, the shark, than it was to show the 58 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: shark right from the beginning. The actual build up is 59 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 1: more frightening than the actual reveal of the monster. I 60 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: incorporated this concept in in my talk. I show an 61 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: X ray that shows a bullet, I show close ups 62 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: of wounds. I showed the actual bullets that were removed 63 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: from the bodies, but I never show the whole body, 64 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: faces or any identifying features, So in a way, I 65 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:17,080 Speaker 1: give the perception of the injuries and the gore that 66 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: people associate with this career, but they actually never see 67 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: the whole thing. By doing this, it makes my talk 68 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: less frightening or horrifying, and the students think they have 69 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: seen something crazy, but in reality, it was very tame. 70 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: In the years I've done these presentations, I've never received 71 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 1: one complaint from teachers, parents, or children, so it must 72 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: have not been too frightening, right. I have been asked 73 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: back every year since I started doing this, and the 74 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: teachers would tell their friends, so I was going to 75 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: numerous different school districts, and I only recently stopped doing 76 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: these talks because my kids are all in college now 77 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: and it just isn't the same for me. Fortunately, I 78 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: have colleagues that have taken it over now, so the 79 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: information does continue to get out there, but for me, 80 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: I've kind of moved on. There's one other thing that 81 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: I I always enjoyed, which was the bizarre questions that 82 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: children would ask, and that's what we'll be talking about 83 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: for the rest of the episode. Is one of the 84 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: children's bizarre questions, my answer, and the ensuing hijinks that 85 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,359 Speaker 1: my answer created. So on this particular day, I was 86 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: talking to a group of fourth graders. The talk went 87 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: reasonably well. I got my standard oohs and ahs and ooh, 88 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: that's gross statements and kids covering their faces. I got 89 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: my standard questions like what does it smell like? My 90 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: answer always is rotting trash mixed with blood. How much 91 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: do you get paid? My answer to that is I 92 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: would tell them my salary and some would be impressed 93 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: and some would say lame, we're just saying. Ever found 94 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 1: in the stomach ballpoint pins was actually probably over fifty 95 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: where this weapon used to kill someone a mini safe 96 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 1: like crushed in his head. Have you ever autopsied a baby? 97 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: My answer to this is I have autopsied a wide 98 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 1: age range of people, from fetuses to people over one 99 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: hundred and six years of age. Finally, when I got 100 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: to the end of my presentation, I asked if there 101 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: was any more questions, and one of the children asked, 102 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: who is the most famous person you have ever autopsy? 103 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: This is a question I get asked on almost every presentation, 104 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 1: and the answer often depends on who I am talking 105 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,520 Speaker 1: to with a group of fourth graders. I felt it 106 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: would be best to discuss a movie star from a 107 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: popular movie. It would probably be someone they would know, 108 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,159 Speaker 1: so I chose Richard Lapalmeittier. If you don't know who 109 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: he is. He was an actor in many movies, including 110 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 1: Who Framed Roger Rabbit? And Star Wars the original one, 111 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: not the prequels, not the sequels, not the TV shows, 112 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,600 Speaker 1: but the very first Star Wars movie from nineteen seventy 113 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: seven that's now been rebranded is I think the New 114 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: Hope or Episode four or something like that. He played 115 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: a Mayan character in the Star Wars movie, but in 116 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: a very memorable scene. And when he dies years after 117 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: being in Star Wars, he was sixty six years old. 118 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 1: He was in town visiting family. I believe he was 119 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: going to a comic con to sign autographs. His cause 120 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,479 Speaker 1: of depth was from an intestinal cancer that rode it 121 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: into a blood vessel that caused him to actually bleed out. 122 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 1: So his cause of death was complications of cancer, and 123 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: his manner death was natural. He was the famous person 124 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: I chose to tell the group. I told the group 125 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 1: of children that I autopsied Richard la palmeteer, and they 126 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: said who's that? And my reply, of course, was have 127 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: you ever seen Star Wars? The original Star Wars? And 128 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: most of them said, oh, I've seen that movie. I've 129 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: seen that movie. And I said, you know the guy 130 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: whom Darth Vader chokes with a force on the Death 131 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: Star and says, I find your lack of faith and 132 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: the force disturbing. And then one of the children screamed, wait, 133 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: you mean Admiral Maddy. At that moment, I thought in 134 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: my head, wow, I didn't know the character's actual name, 135 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: but I responded with sure. At that moment, one of 136 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 1: the children gas and he said, you mean Darth Vader 137 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: really killed him. A wave of shock and realization spread 138 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,559 Speaker 1: through the room faster than life with kindergarteners. Several kids 139 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: excitedly exclaimed what really and more and more kids were 140 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: becoming excitable. While this was occurring, I was standing there 141 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: not responding. Granted it was only a few seconds, but 142 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: long enough for chaos to ensue. The thing is, I 143 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: have five children who are now all adults, but when 144 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: they were little, occasionally they would say something absurd that 145 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: I would get tripped up by. Logically, it made no 146 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: sense but they were sure it was real, and they 147 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: were sure they were right, and there was no convincing them. Otherwise. 148 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,679 Speaker 1: You can't counter a young child with a logical argument 149 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: because they just wouldn't understand. And this was one of 150 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: those moments. I thought, in my head, no, no, he 151 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: didn't kill him. It was a movie. Plus it was 152 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy seven, which was like over thirty five years ago, 153 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: and I was in grade school, so I would not 154 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 1: have done his autopsy if he had died in nineteen 155 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: seventy seven. But I thought that in my head. I 156 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: didn't come up with a good response. I was standing 157 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: there dumbfound it just uh well, and the chaos had 158 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: taken over the classroom. The children are all talking about 159 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: the murder committed by Darth Vader, and they couldn't believe 160 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: that he had actually killed that person. Thankfully, the fourth 161 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,320 Speaker 1: grade teacher stepped in and she calmed them down and 162 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: got them to listen to reason. Explained how Star Wars 163 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: was just a movie, and the more logical children agreed 164 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: with her with a resounding yeah. I chimed in and 165 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: I said, that's right, your teacher's right, it's just a movie. 166 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: And he actually died of cancer. Then that same child, 167 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: whose name was Monty by the way, started the chaos 168 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: again when he said Darth Vader gave him cancer, and 169 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: again that same wave of chaos spread across the room. 170 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: This time I said, no, no, Darth Vader had nothing 171 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: to do with it, and Monty again exclaimed that it 172 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: must have been something in the Death Star, something made 173 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: him get cancer in the Death Star. And I thought 174 00:08:34,080 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: this was a reasonable assumption. If the Death Star was 175 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:40,599 Speaker 1: a real working environment that did not follow OSHA's safety guidelines, 176 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, potentially he could have gotten cancer. But 177 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: again it was indeed false, and the teacher said, Monty, 178 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: that's enough, to which a chorus the girls said, yeah, 179 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: Manty enough. The thing about it is is I have 180 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: testified in court for years. I've testified in massive courtrooms, 181 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: in front of legislators, you name it, and I've never 182 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: been de raded like I was by that statement from 183 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: a fourth grader. After the teacher got the class calm 184 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: down again, she said, well, I think we're done asking 185 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: Doctor Crown's questions, so let's all thank Doctor Crowns with 186 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: a round of applause, and all the kids dutifully clapped 187 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: and thanked me, and that ended it. I was a 188 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: little relieved that it was finally over, because Monty really 189 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,280 Speaker 1: had my number that day. So that incident happened probably 190 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 1: well over a decade ago. Now I don't really know 191 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: what happened to little Monty. He'd be in his early twenties. 192 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: Who knows what he's up to. He's probably getting ready 193 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: to become a lawyer and getting ready to derail medical 194 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: examiners across the country with his crazy logic. The one 195 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: thing I'd have to say, though, is thank goodness for 196 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: grade school teachers, because they actually understand the logic of 197 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: children somehow, and that teacher that day really saved me. 198 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: That brings us to the end of the story. And 199 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: I learned never to take too long to answer a 200 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: group of grade schoolers because they are like sharks with 201 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: chum in the water, and they will swarm in a 202 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 1: feeding frenzly with any opportunity. I hope you learned something 203 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: like Star Wars is just a movie. I know that's 204 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: difficult to believe, and I hope you were entertained until 205 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 1: the next time