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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 3: My name is Matt, my name is Nola. They call

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Speaker 3: me Ben.

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Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Alexis codenamed

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Speaker 4: Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you are here. That makes

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Speaker 4: this the stuff they don't want you to know. It

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Speaker 4: is the top of the week Monday. If you're hearing

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Speaker 4: this evening comes out, which means it's time for some

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Speaker 4: strange news quick things at the top. A school board

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Speaker 4: of Florida banned a book about book bands hell in

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Speaker 4: their library.

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Speaker 3: That's pretty meta right there.

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Speaker 4: It's love to be an escape room with those guys.

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Speaker 3: And no man nightmares probably.

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Speaker 4: And before we get to our main stories, maybe we

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Speaker 4: can kick it off with some good news. FBI statistics

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Speaker 4: have proven that here in the United States, violent crime

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Speaker 4: is down significantly and the US murder rate is plummeting.

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Speaker 4: So millennials killed the diamond market, I guess right, and

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Speaker 4: now they're killing crime. So khudn't say yeah, Yay, who

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Speaker 4: could afford a crime in this economy?

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Speaker 3: Are you kidding? Not me?

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Speaker 4: So say we all. We may talk a little bit

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Speaker 4: about the recent conviction of Hunter Biden, but we are

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Speaker 4: definitely going to give you some updates on Baby Reindeer,

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Speaker 4: some unfortunate paramilitary news, got some neat legos stories. We

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Speaker 4: got a lot of stuff to get to.

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Speaker 2: One last thing. As we are recording this today on

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Speaker 2: June twelfth, you are hearing it on June seventeenth. From

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Speaker 2: the day we record until the day you hear this,

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Speaker 2: there are four large Russian vessels parked just hanging out

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Speaker 2: in Cuba, in Havana. Yeah, and it's fine, Everything's fine.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but if you look at those four vessels, they're

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Speaker 4: not I mean, I don't think the US Navy is worried.

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Speaker 2: No, but it's definitely a little Hey, remember that we

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Speaker 2: can kind of hang out down here, just just below Florida.

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Speaker 4: He can reach out and touch each other or easily

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Speaker 4: now than at any point in history. Breaking news, fellow

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Speaker 4: conspiracy realist, our first story.

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Speaker 3: Of this evening.

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Speaker 4: There is a man who is set to be executed

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Speaker 4: in Missouri on September twenty fourth. His name is Marcellus Williams.

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Speaker 4: This was a decision of the Missouri Supreme Court, and

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Speaker 4: it's a decision that the prosecutor does not agree with.

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Speaker 4: Let's go to AP News article. Execution date set for

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Speaker 4: Missouri inmate even as he waits hearing on a claim

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Speaker 4: of his actual innocence. So Marcellus Williams, not Wallace as

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Speaker 4: fifty five. He was convicted of firstgree murder in the

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Speaker 4: nineteen ninety eight death of Lesia Gale during a robbery

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Speaker 4: at her home in suburban Saint Louis, and his story

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Speaker 4: has been quite a journey because in twenty seventeen he

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Speaker 4: was almost executed for this crime until the governor at

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Speaker 4: the time halted the process demanded an investigation. And this

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Speaker 4: demand for an investigation was based on the fact that

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Speaker 4: DNA forensic technology wasn't available at the time of this

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Speaker 4: guy's arrest, trial and conviction, and the new DNA investigation

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Speaker 4: found DNA on the knife used to stab this person,

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Speaker 4: this victim. The DNA does not match Williams, it matches

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Speaker 4: someone else. Add to this eyewitness testimony that appears to

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Speaker 4: confirm he was hours away from the location where the

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Speaker 4: crime occurred. The prosecutors said that they have clear and

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Speaker 4: convincing evidence that Marcellus Williams is innocent. This is the

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Speaker 4: prosecution saying this. They moved to vacate the conviction, and

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Speaker 4: I think, as we all know, it's fairly rare for

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Speaker 4: prosecution to go back and vacate this kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, But what we're looking at here is absolutely

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Speaker 2: reasonable doubt. And if it was presented in a courtroom

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Speaker 2: that the DNA on the weapon used to cause death

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Speaker 2: was not the DNA of the person who is now

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Speaker 2: in prison awaiting death himself, I feel like the whole

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Speaker 2: thing would be over. But it is weird. It's almost

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Speaker 2: like we've already made this decision, so we're just going

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Speaker 2: to keep.

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Speaker 4: It like this right exactly. And we also, to be

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Speaker 4: completely fair, we have to say finding different DNA on

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Speaker 4: the murder weapon could just be as simple as someone

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Speaker 4: touched it at some point, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: But it doesn't. While it doesn't absolutely prove his innocence,

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Speaker 4: it does go to reasonable doubt, which is one of

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Speaker 4: the big problems with the US death penalty policies well.

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Speaker 3: And it's also a big problem just about the slow

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Speaker 3: grinding of the gears of justice and the bureaucracy of

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Speaker 3: it all, and just the kind of procedural nature. It's like,

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Speaker 3: once things are sort of set in motion, it takes

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Speaker 3: a whole lot to reverse things or to even get

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Speaker 3: things to kind of pause, right. I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it just seems like they're basically saying, nah, now we're

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Speaker 3: already moving forward based on the original information, and it's

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Speaker 3: too you know, I don't know, like it's too difficult.

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Speaker 3: There isn't there are enough processes in place to allow

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Speaker 3: for this kind of thing. Maybe, I don't know. It

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Speaker 3: seems like the kind of conversations we were having with

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Speaker 3: Lava for Good on that panel just about how there

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Speaker 3: are just so many cracks that these kinds of things

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Speaker 3: can fall through in the wake of like this.

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Speaker 4: You know, machine and the Innocence Project is one of

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Speaker 4: the best sources for breaking news and backstory in context

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Speaker 4: on this case, So shout out to shout out to

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Speaker 4: our pal Jason flam as well as the rest of

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Speaker 4: the Lava for Good crew or community. I also want

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Speaker 4: to amend an earlier statement. Williams had almost been executed

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Speaker 4: twice on two separate occasions. His execution was suspended or

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Speaker 4: halted is the language they use. And it is true

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Speaker 4: that if this were in a court, the decision of

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Speaker 4: the court may well have been very different. No court

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Speaker 4: has officially reviewed this DNA evidence. And there was also

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Speaker 4: you know, there are also claims from a jailhouse informant,

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Speaker 4: an ex girlfriend who likes it's dirty. There was also

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Speaker 4: get this, no physical evidence ever presented that linked Williams

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Speaker 4: to the crime. And even after the prosecution agreed with

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Speaker 4: all of this and said, yes, let's vacate this conviction,

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Speaker 4: let's take back the conclusion, even after that, the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 4: the State Supreme Court said no, we are executing this

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Speaker 4: man in September. The decision has been made. So we're

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Speaker 4: working with live a live situation here. I'd like to

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Speaker 4: shout out one thing before we move on. If you

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Speaker 4: go to the Innocence Project and just search for Marcellus

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Speaker 4: Williams that's m A R C L l us, then

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Speaker 4: you will see a petition that I think is you know,

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Speaker 4: we don't ever tell people what to do, but if

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Speaker 4: this kind of stuff concerns you, I think this is

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Speaker 4: a good cause to support, a good petition to sign,

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Speaker 4: even if you don't live in Missouri.

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Speaker 3: And the uh, the mechanism that you're referring to, ben

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Speaker 3: was a result of a twenty twenty one Missouri law

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Speaker 3: that created the opportunity for attorneys to file this motion

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Speaker 3: to vacate a conviction after the fact. But it does

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Speaker 3: seem that it's not as simple as that, right, Like

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Speaker 3: I mean, once someone has been convicted, we know how

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Speaker 3: difficult it can be to reverse that, you know, once

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Speaker 3: everything the chips have kind of fallen, right.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that's correct. You can again, you can see this

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Speaker 4: on the Innocent Innocenceproject dot org. You can check out

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Speaker 4: writing about this. There was a great article from Salon

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Speaker 4: that came out just about twenty three hours ago that

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Speaker 4: talks about some of the back and forth stuff here

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Speaker 4: and the fact that this board we're mentioning was established

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Speaker 4: nearly six years ago, and it's a it's not a

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Speaker 4: grand scheme, it's a noble ambition, and they're trying to

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Speaker 4: do the right thing. But there are only five people

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Speaker 4: on the board, and once someone makes this decision, this decision, unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: it's not, as you said, it's a matter of snapping

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Speaker 4: one's bureaucratic fingers. It has to go to other places

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Speaker 4: for approval, And I'd love your opinions, guys, I'd love

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Speaker 4: the opinions of all of us listening along at home.

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Speaker 4: What gives? How could these different stakeholders in the illegal

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Speaker 4: process that are supposed to be on the same side,

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Speaker 4: How could they seem so contradictory?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's weird because governor ultimately gets to say, right, yes,

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Speaker 2: what happens?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't have answers for you. I was just looking

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Speaker 2: at the case, Ben, I'm sorry, I don't have an

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Speaker 2: answer to that question specifically, but I was looking at

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Speaker 2: the case and just saw that the victim was stabbed

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Speaker 2: forty three times with a nice yeah, which leaves some

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Speaker 2: traces well yeah, presoom, yeah. But it also speaks to

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Speaker 2: a pretty passionate crime, somebody who stabbed someone over and

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Speaker 2: over and over over to that extent. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like someone who breaks in through a

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Speaker 2: window the way the prosecutors alleged Marcellus. Did you know

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Speaker 2: Waited stabbed this person forty three times and then took

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Speaker 2: her personal laptop.

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Speaker 3: It seems like a cover story that doesn't even line

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Speaker 3: up particularly Well, you're right, Matt, It's absolutely the indication

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Speaker 3: of a crime of passion. If someone was trying to

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Speaker 3: get in and out. First of all, you're not going

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Speaker 3: to murder somebody. Nine times out of ten. You might

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Speaker 3: knock them out and capacitate them. If you were going

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Speaker 3: to kill, it would not necessarily be your intent. You might,

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Speaker 3: you know, stab them once just to put them down

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Speaker 3: and then escape. But that level of ferocity or not, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: the hallmark of of breaking an entering job.

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Speaker 2: It just makes you want to learn more about the

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Speaker 2: case and what evidence the Innocence Project you know, has

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Speaker 2: basically right, because I'd want to look at it with

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Speaker 2: fresh eyes.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and again, I do think Innocenceproject dot org is

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Speaker 4: objectively the best source to get, at your fingertips all

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Speaker 4: the relevant information that the public knows so far. I mean,

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Speaker 4: they even get into some of the problematic testimony that

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Speaker 4: was the real deciding factor for William's convictions. One this

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Speaker 4: prison informant that we mentioned here his name, we'll just

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Speaker 4: call him mister Cole. He apparently refused to participate as

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Speaker 4: a witness in the murder case until he was promised

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Speaker 4: that he would be paid for doing so. He would

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Speaker 4: not have come forward of prosecution if the prosecution had

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Speaker 4: not given him five thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and he was a cell maate right with

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Speaker 2: Marc mat Yes, So like that, we've seen that situation

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Speaker 2: before where if you've got something to gain, you'll quote

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Speaker 2: give up information on your celly if you know, even

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Speaker 2: if it's not true, if it helps a prosecutor somewhere, Well,

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Speaker 2: what do you have to lose?

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Speaker 3: All you have to do is you know a little

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Speaker 3: bit of cushy, you know, funds for your time where

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Speaker 3: you're kind of stuck, and if it comes around that

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Speaker 3: you were lying or mistaken. I mean, depending on the

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Speaker 3: severity of the crime that you're being incarcerated for, you

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Speaker 3: might not have very much to lose at all. It

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Speaker 3: just seems like that should be inadmissible. Just the nature

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Speaker 3: of paying for that kind of stuff. It just doesn't

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Speaker 3: seem right.

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Speaker 4: And one thing I would add, or I wanted to

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Speaker 4: add there in the conversation is that we also know

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Speaker 4: that if someone is already in these dire circumstances, they

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Speaker 4: will help law enforcement clear cases or help things look

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Speaker 4: right in exchange for things that you might think are

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Speaker 4: very small on the outside, you know, like Henry Lee

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Speaker 4: Lucas probably didn't kill all those people, right, he was

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Speaker 4: agreeing to say that he did that for better living

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Speaker 4: circumstances in prison, for literally better snacks.

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Speaker 3: Part of a plea deal, right, more or less? I mean,

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Speaker 3: you can you make I mean, maybe that's not exactly

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Speaker 3: what that is, but it could be a situation where

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Speaker 3: as the result of a plea deal, you're agreeing to

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Speaker 3: admit to certain things you know.

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Speaker 2: Right well, or he's just in prison already he knows

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Speaker 2: he's not going anywhere.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Yeah, that's my previous thing. But are there

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Speaker 3: not situations though, where as the result of a deal

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Speaker 3: with prosecutors you might admit to more than you actually did.

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Speaker 4: It could definitely happen because people who are in that

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Speaker 4: position are heavily incentivized to pursue a plea, to the

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Speaker 4: point where the implication that a lot of people genuinely

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Speaker 4: believe is that if they move forward with a jury trial,

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Speaker 4: there will be a retribution. If convicted, their sentence will

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Speaker 4: be tougher, because otherwise, what's the value of a plea deal.

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Speaker 3: You should have taken it while you have the chance

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Speaker 3: kind of attitude, right. Unfortunately, that shouldn't be either that

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Speaker 3: level of adversarial prosecution. That just doesn't seem to be

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Speaker 3: the nature of how justice should work. It shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: based on these kind of whims. You know, I thought

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Speaker 3: it was supposed to be about finding the truth, but

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Speaker 3: we all know that that's not really case.

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Speaker 4: That's why I'm a huge supporter of the Innocence Project.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to also say that in addition to being

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Speaker 4: heavily incentivized toward a plea bargain with the threat of

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Speaker 4: punitive sentencing, which unfortunately we do know happens, we also

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Speaker 4: saw that there was a curation of cherry picking even

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Speaker 4: of what parts of the witness testimony were supposed to

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Speaker 4: be treated as fact, even though the testimony was significantly

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Speaker 4: different did not match the evidence of the crime scene.

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Speaker 4: One example would be the ex girlfriend a Sorrow testified

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Speaker 4: that her former boyfriend had scratch marks on him. But

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Speaker 4: there's no foreign DNA president underneath the murder victim's fingernails.

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Speaker 4: The only evidence really connecting Williams is the testimony of

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Speaker 4: these two people, which has been called into deep, deep question.

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Speaker 4: And if you look at if you look at the

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Speaker 4: larger context here, which is I just cannot recommend this

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Speaker 4: source enough. If you look at the larger context here,

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Speaker 4: you go to places like the National Registry of Exonerations,

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Speaker 4: which says the following incentivized witness testimony help us and

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Speaker 4: we'll help you. Kind of stuff has contributed to fourteen

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Speaker 4: percent of death penalty cases that later led to DNA exoneration,

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Speaker 4: some perhaps posthumously. So lives are literally on the line.

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Speaker 3: It's really tough.

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Speaker 4: It's a tough one. And it also leads us to

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Speaker 4: another conversation that we've touched on a bit here in

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Speaker 4: past episodes or past listener mail programs. Should the death

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Speaker 4: penalty be around? Knowing that law enforcement, for a myriad

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Speaker 4: number of reasons, often gets things wrong, should state still

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Speaker 4: have the death penalty?

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Speaker 3: It feels like a no from me. Yeah, it just

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Speaker 3: doesn't feel like it should. We've seen so many cases

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Speaker 3: where things have gone wrong. It just doesn't seem like

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Speaker 3: it should be a thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I might not have the same level of certitude with this,

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Speaker 4: because I do think there are some crimes that should

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Speaker 4: be punishable by death, such as, you know, treason, or

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Speaker 4: there are certain certain activities that simply cannot be justified

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Speaker 4: in any way. But but yeah, The question is how

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Speaker 4: many innocent people is this civilization okay with murdering?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 4: And what will happen to mister Williams who has already

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Speaker 4: spent quite some time in incarceration, quite possibly for crime

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Speaker 4: that he did not commit. If you want to learn

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Speaker 4: more about stuff like this, check out wrongful Conviction. That

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Speaker 4: is a shore buddy Jason does. Check out also the

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Speaker 4: War on drugs. That's it. That's another one. And shout

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Speaker 4: out to our fellow hometown native Clayton English, who is

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Speaker 4: just on a lighter note. The guy's just hilarious. He's

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Speaker 4: so sharp. And guys, I'm gonna keep it short here.

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Speaker 4: I know we've got some adventures to get to. But folks,

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Speaker 4: please write in Conspiracy iHeartRadio dot com. Let us know

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Speaker 4: your thoughts on the justice system, your thoughts on the

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Speaker 4: death penalty. We want to know what you think is

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Speaker 4: the right answer or something more people need to think about. Please, please, please,

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Speaker 4: if you get a chance, check out the information about

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Speaker 4: mister Williams. You can find it on the news. You

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Speaker 4: can find it Innocensproject dot org. If you feel so inclined,

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Speaker 4: consider signing the petition and also give us your thoughts

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Speaker 4: on the case. We're gonna pause for word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 4: We'll be back with more strange news.

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Speaker 3: And we're back with a couple of pieces of strange news.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna keep this first one quick, Ben, you alluded

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Speaker 3: to some updates in the baby Reindeer controversy. Richard Gadd's

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Speaker 3: hit Netflix series about Well based on We Now seems

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Speaker 3: to be a little more accurate. But as they claim

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Speaker 3: a true story about Richard Gadd himself, who plays a

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Speaker 3: character that is based on his exact experiences, who is

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Speaker 3: relentlessly stalked by an individual who is depicted in the show,

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Speaker 3: who was later revealed through some Internet sloo thing to

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Speaker 3: be a woman named Fiona Harvey, who came out and

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Speaker 3: did an interview with Pierce Morgan. And we talked about

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Speaker 3: this previously, Pierce Morgan having some problematic bits of his reputation,

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Speaker 3: possibly not the greatest person in the world. But I

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Speaker 3: will say that the interview she did was very telling

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Speaker 3: and very interesting in and of itself. She is now

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Speaker 3: suing Netflix, not Richard Gadd himself, which I think is

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Speaker 3: interesting maybe a little telling as well. For one hundred

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Speaker 3: and thirty three million pounds alleging that the tagline this

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Speaker 3: is a true story defamed her, and the suit alleges defamation,

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Speaker 3: intentional infliction of emotional distress, negligence, gross negligence, and violations

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Speaker 3: of her right to privacy. Speaking of Morgan again, an

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Speaker 3: additional interview has now come out with a woman who

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Speaker 3: is telling her story again think what she will about

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Speaker 3: Pierce Morgan. It is a platform for this woman to

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Speaker 3: tell her story about being relentlessly stalked by Fiona Harvey

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Speaker 3: in the past, and that instance, she was the wife

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Speaker 3: of a member of Parliament and Fiona Harvey was getting

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Speaker 3: start to her like legal career, and this woman hired

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Speaker 3: her as part of her firm and alleges that she

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Speaker 3: was wildly inappropriate, making sexual comments to members of staff,

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Speaker 3: just making people very uncomfortable. And then when she was

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Speaker 3: let go, relentlessly stalking her and accusing her of abusing

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Speaker 3: her child who has a disability, leaving dozens and dozens

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Speaker 3: of voicemail messages or at the time I guess it

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Speaker 3: was more answering machine messages. All behavior that lines up

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Speaker 3: exactly with the kind of behavior that's depicted in the

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Speaker 3: series on Netflix. The big issue, though, remains and Morgan

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Speaker 3: brings this up to this woman whose name is Laura Ray.

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Speaker 3: She is also a lawyer, a currently practicing lawyer. She

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Speaker 3: agrees with Piers Morgan's assessment that Netflix did not do

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Speaker 3: a good enough job of veiling Fiona's identity, therefore her

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Speaker 3: own identity, because now she's kind of caught up in

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Speaker 3: this because they do depict the stalking case that is

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Speaker 3: being described by Ray on the Piers Morgan Show. And

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Speaker 3: she thinks that while all of this stuff is true,

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Speaker 3: she says, the fact that they are alleging that this

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Speaker 3: woman was convicted twice, not only of the case involving Ray,

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Speaker 3: but also of the case involving God that's depicted in

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Speaker 3: the series, it does seem like that aspects more some

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Speaker 3: creative license to give some kind of dramatic catharsis I guess,

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Speaker 3: you know, to the show, but potentially problematic if you're

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Speaker 3: accusing someone of something that did not happen at all,

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Speaker 3: you know, of being a convicted felon. So I don't know,

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Speaker 3: we'll see.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's interesting. Brings up in my opinion, I'm sure

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Speaker 4: not the only entity thinking this. It brings up the

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Speaker 4: other question of the line between fiction and fact, right, Like,

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Speaker 4: if you take something and say this is a work

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Speaker 4: of fiction based on or inspired by a true story,

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Speaker 4: to what degree are you responsible for anything that might

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Speaker 4: be seen as as aspersion upon a real world character

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Speaker 4: or entity like that. Maybe that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 4: why the creator was so adamant that different people not

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Speaker 4: be identified from the story. Perhaps it was aware of

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Speaker 4: the risk and knew that he had embellished or at

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Speaker 4: least the accusations maybe were true.

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Speaker 3: Oh for sure. But the thing that's so interesting is,

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Speaker 3: you know it does. There's lots of stories that have

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Speaker 3: come out indicating that this. You know, Fiona Harvey has

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Speaker 3: this history of this kind of behavior, this stalker kind

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Speaker 3: of mentality, and if you watch the interview with Piers Morgan,

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Speaker 3: she does have this sort of air of sociopathy about

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Speaker 3: her and the way she sort of responds to questions

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Speaker 3: and sort of does a lot of walking things back,

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Speaker 3: and just the sense that she's sort of kind of

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Speaker 3: creating things on the fly and that maybe she's living

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Speaker 3: in her own kind of psychic bubble where she believes

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Speaker 3: the things that the stories that she's spun, or the

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Speaker 3: justification that she's created internally about this type of stuff

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Speaker 3: and she's reacting and responding to that rather than the

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Speaker 3: facts or the way other people see her action.

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Speaker 4: Then you know, perhaps also the law. Yeah, this is

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Speaker 4: all true. And again, you know, we are not experts

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Speaker 4: in UK defamation law thankfully we haven't been in that

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Speaker 4: situation yet, but it does have this strong, I think,

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Speaker 4: possibility to set a precedent for creators. And again, you know,

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Speaker 4: Baby Reindeer or what became Baby Reindeer on Netflix is

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Speaker 4: an adaptation of a one person play from a fringe

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Speaker 4: festival in Edinburgh, so he'd been doing this story or

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Speaker 4: some version of it for quite some time. In fact,

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Speaker 4: we could say it's just the massive amount of attention

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Speaker 4: and popularity garnered from Netflix that led to you know,

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Speaker 4: people doxing this person and hunting down the real identity

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Speaker 4: and then all the ensuing legal problems. But definitely still

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Speaker 4: a developing case. How do you think it's going to go?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I mean to your point, but it

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Speaker 3: does feel like a little bit of a precedent center

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Speaker 3: in terms of like the how important is it to

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Speaker 3: say based on a true story versus this is a

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Speaker 3: true story. You know, God has come out and said,

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Speaker 3: if I wanted it to be completely the real story,

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Speaker 3: I would have made it a documentary, which is a

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Speaker 3: very somewhat telling thing to say as well, which is true.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you know, what are the laws. I don't

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Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know. I've certainly gotten releases every time

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Speaker 3: I've done like an audio true crime story for the participants.

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Speaker 3: But you know, you do have to get legal counsel

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Speaker 3: as far as accusations that you're making about people that

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Speaker 3: didn't participate in the documentary. But like, if it's a

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Speaker 3: documentary and you're citing news sources and you're citing things

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Speaker 3: that interview subjects and people that participated in the real story, say,

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Speaker 3: I think you're covered, you know, But then it does

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Speaker 3: become a little different when it's a private citizen versus

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Speaker 3: a you know, person of note or a public figure.

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Speaker 3: You know all of that stuff and been to your point,

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Speaker 3: I'm no expert either, but I do know that defamation

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Speaker 3: law in the UK is a little, let's say looser

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Speaker 3: in America the United States, it is a lot more

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Speaker 3: difficult to sue somebody for defamation to prove actual malice

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Speaker 3: I think might be the term. But I know you

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Speaker 3: both have been involved in lots of audio documentaries as well.

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Speaker 3: Can you speak a little bit from y'all's perspective on

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Speaker 3: the difference between a fictionalized account of something and a

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Speaker 3: quote unquote documentary.

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Speaker 4: Speaking just from one perspective, I would say one thing

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Speaker 4: I like about the work of our colleagues is it

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Speaker 4: rarely gets to a situation like the what we're describing

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Speaker 4: with Baby Reindeer, Because I like to think that all

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Speaker 4: of our cohort practices ethical act like what I would

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Speaker 4: just call good audio hygiene, and we're pretty ethical with

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Speaker 4: does this person want to be on record? Do they

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Speaker 4: want to be anonymous?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: Are they As far as recreations or even something like

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Speaker 4: the use of AI, I think it's incredibly clear to

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Speaker 4: be transparent about when that is occurring so that you're

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Speaker 4: not quote unquote tricking or worse, misleading the audience that

436
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 4: has trusted you with their time and attention. I mean

437
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 4: that's we I think we're always pretty pretty open on

438
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 4: the shows we hear when we say, like, this is

439
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 4: a recreation, this is not actually recording of you know,

440
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 4: of people at a traffic jam playing a curse song

441
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 4: from Hungry d resulting in mass suicide in the end

442
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 4: of the world.

443
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 3: I would just say that she doesn't seem I mean,

444
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 3: based on what I know, my you know, meager experience,

445
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 3: that she doesn't have a case outside of this accusation

446
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: of actual conviction and incarceration. Not only once did they

447
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 3: say this happened, but twice and the and the one

448
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 3: that happens spoiler alert in the show at the end

449
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 3: is very clearly meant to be this sort of like

450
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 3: narrative Catharsis. And you know, if you're writing something, even

451
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 3: if it is quote unquote a true story, you know,

452
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 3: it's still got to be it's got to hit the

453
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 3: beats man. You know, it's got to like have like

454
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 3: a beginning, middle, and end. And sometimes true stories aren't

455
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,880
Speaker 3: like that. You know, they're messy and they don't have

456
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 3: some sort of neatly tied up resolution. So I would

457
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 3: argue that those bits were fabricated quote unquote, but a

458
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 3: TV series with a script and with actors I don't know, Matt,

459
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 3: your eyes are lightening up.

460
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 4: Oh, and assumably hopefully a legal department.

461
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 3: Well, it does seem like the Netflix is legal department

462
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 3: definitely pooped the bed a little bit on this one.

463
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: I would argue because they didn't didn't cover anybody's identity

464
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: up enough for the Internet to not be able to

465
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 3: figure it out really quickly. They could have cast them

466
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 3: one that looked different. They could have changed the setting,

467
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 3: they could have changed the locations that things took place.

468
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 3: But they were all and even used verbatim tweets that

469
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,200
Speaker 3: still exist on the Internet. I believe was was part

470
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 3: of how this woman was tracked down Fiona Harvey. But Matt,

471
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 3: what are your thoughts on this? We can move on

472
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 3: real quick.

473
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get I guess there is your case. Like

474
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,159
Speaker 2: probably the actual tweets, the actual locations.

475
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 3: I don't know.

476
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: In my opinion, if you wanted it to not be you,

477
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 2: you say no, that's not me. You don't go on

478
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: Piers Morgan and talk about how it's you. And for me,

479
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,399
Speaker 2: that's the strongest thing. That just indicates, you know whatever,

480
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 2: this isn't legal. This is my opinion. I think it

481
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: indicates an opportunity for her now to cash in on

482
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,440
Speaker 2: something that's probably really hard to go through right now.

483
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 2: It's probably horrible, But at the same time, she didn't

484
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 2: have to ever raise her hand. She could have just

485
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: said nope.

486
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 3: Could be.

487
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's the question too. Is it a guilty dog

488
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 4: barks situation for some people? But we haven't met this person.

489
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 4: We don't know what their full motives are. I think

490
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 4: it is. You know, it is important to note that

491
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 4: now more than ever, they're very much as a court

492
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 4: of public opinion, regardless of the legal system in your

493
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 4: neck of the Global woods. So this kind of stuff

494
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 4: could ruin your life. I mean, let's not forget that.

495
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 4: People who play villains it works of clear fiction, like

496
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: the kids in Harry Potter or one poor brilliant young

497
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 4: man in Game of Thrones who played a real asshole

498
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 4: came acting, Yeah, quit acting because people would come up

499
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 4: to him and say or do terrible things.

500
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 3: The guy that plays one of the big bads in

501
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: the New Furiosa movie had to come out on the

502
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 3: internet and say, hey, y'all, just a reminder, this is

503
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 3: a fictional character. The horrible things that I do we

504
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 3: depicted in this film were based on the instructions of

505
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: a director and the script. I'm actually not a whatever.

506
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 3: I haven't seen the film yet, but apparently he does

507
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 3: some real gnarly stuff to a young Furiosa. And that's

508
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 3: got picture of me arms next to the other act.

509
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 4: We're cool, she's also not really furiosa. Just gonna blow

510
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 4: some minds with.

511
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 3: That, and not to tuck down to anybody. I think

512
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 3: for the most part, people understand these things, but a

513
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 3: lot of people some people don't. And I just want

514
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 3: to add, you know, the last thing on this one

515
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 3: that it is kind of a it's not kind of.

516
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 3: It's a total bummer that the conversation around this series

517
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 3: has really shifted to this. And I do get the

518
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: sense of this Fiona Harvey, especially based on the interview

519
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: with this other woman who is very versed in the

520
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 3: law and knows exactly what she's saying and is not

521
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 3: going to be seen as defamation. She says some pretty

522
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 3: gnarly stuff that this woman very clearly did, and it's

523
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 3: very much in line with what's de pict in the show.

524
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: So I do give the sense to this Fiona Harvey

525
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 3: as a troubled individual. And it's a bummer that the

526
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 3: conversation has shifted away from the contents of the show,

527
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 3: which I think is a very important story about a

528
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: man being sexually abused, about a man being stalked, and

529
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 3: you know, this is sort of the gender reversals of

530
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 3: this I think very interesting, and there are men out

531
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,160
Speaker 3: there that are victims in this way that don't I'm

532
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 3: not being I'm like men's rights activists, see, I'm just

533
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 3: saying it's an interesting reversal of the story that I

534
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 3: think is of value. The fact that it's all being

535
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: called in a question, I think sort of you know,

536
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 3: cuts into that a little bit, you know, of the

537
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 3: of the social value of what the show represents. So

538
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 3: this moment a little longer than I thought. I will

539
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 3: just bring up this other story that I brought that

540
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 3: I that I found and maybe this is something for

541
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: another time to go into a little more depth on.

542
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 3: But have you guys heard about the uh, you know,

543
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 3: Elon Musk had this whole Starlink project to bring the

544
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: Internet to the Amazon. And now there's a fantastic article

545
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 3: from the New York Times by Jack Nikas about the

546
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 3: Marubo people who are an isolated community living very deep

547
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 3: in the Amazon rainforest, with their very own language, their

548
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 3: very own rituals, their very own you know, culture and

549
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 3: connection to the forest and all the kinds of things

550
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 3: that you think would come along with being an isolated

551
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 3: community and the fact that these are still around and exist.

552
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 3: I think is very good. I don't know, maybe it's

553
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 3: either good nor bad. Its given all of the saturation

554
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: of pop culture and internet addiction and all this stuff.

555
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: I like to think that somewhere out there there's somebody

556
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: that is either immune or just unaware of all of

557
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 3: those trappings. And the story headline or the title of

558
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: the story on the New York Times is the Internet's

559
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 3: final frontier, Remote Amazon tribes. Elon Musk's starlink has connected

560
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 3: an isolated tribe to the outside world and divided it

561
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 3: from within. So essentially what's happened is this Marubo tribe

562
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 3: has received internets and smart devices and it's caused all

563
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 3: kinds of problems in their way of life. Surprise, surprise,

564
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 3: teenagers just want to be on their phones, you know,

565
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 3: just like everywhere else, and they're lazy, and they are

566
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 3: no longer participating or seeming to care as much about

567
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 3: the traditions of this tribe and this culture. One could

568
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: also argue that they're positives where they can get connection

569
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: with the outside world, perhaps get medical attention quicker when

570
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 3: they're so far away from any hospitals, and you know,

571
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 3: there are obviously positive things that can be you know,

572
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 3: gained from having access to the Internet. But you know,

573
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 3: the article, which is super in depth, way too deep

574
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: to go into here, talks about the good and the

575
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 3: bad and the thing that I want to just mention,

576
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 3: just to keep maybe this one almost a little shorter.

577
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 3: And by way of an update, is that a lot

578
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 3: of the reporting, the kind of lazy news aggregation around

579
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 3: this mega in depth piece or this guy height fifty

580
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 3: miles into the deep Amazon and spent time with these people,

581
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 3: or one comment that he made about one of the

582
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 3: young people posting some sort of sexually explicit material on

583
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,479
Speaker 3: a WhatsApp thread that other young people were participating in.

584
00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,719
Speaker 3: And from that, the reporting on places like the New

585
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 3: York Post, even the Economic Times, are really making this

586
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 3: about horn addiction. It got so out of control that

587
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 3: the writer of the article, Jack Nicas, had to post

588
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: a follow up piece, No, a remote Amazon tribe did

589
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 3: not get addicted to porn. A time story about the

590
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 3: arrival of high speed internet and a remote Amazon tribe

591
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 3: spiraled into its own cautionary tale on the dark side

592
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 3: of the web. And I'm just gonna quote this here.

593
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 3: During a week long visit I saw how they used

594
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 3: the internet to communicate between villages, chat with faraway loved ones,

595
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 3: and call for help in emergencies. Many in Marubo also

596
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 3: told me they were deeply concerned that the connection with

597
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 3: the outside world would up end their culture, which they

598
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 3: had preserved for generations by living deep in the forest.

599
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 3: Some elders complained of teenagers glued to phones, group chats

600
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 3: full of gossip, and miners who watch pornography as a result.

601
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 3: The story we published June second was in part about

602
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 3: the Marubos people's introduction to the ills of the Internet,

603
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 3: but after publication, that angle took on a whole different dimension.

604
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 3: Over the past week, more than one hundred websites around

605
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 3: the world have published headlines that falsely claim the Marubo

606
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 3: have become addicted to porn. Alongside these headlines, the size

607
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 3: published images of the Marubo people in their villages. The

608
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: New York Post was among the first saying last week

609
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 3: that the Marubo people were quote hooked on porn. Dozens

610
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 3: quickly followed that. Take TMZ's headline was perhaps the most blunt.

611
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 3: Tribes starlink hookup results in porn addiction. The Post in

612
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 3: TMZ did not respond for requests for comment. So, I mean,

613
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 3: I think, you know, the story and of itself is fascinating,

614
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 3: but maybe we could just take a couple of minutes,

615
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 3: since I did like two this time, just to talk

616
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: about that echo chamber of like, you know, this is

617
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 3: a great example of like serious journalism versus what I

618
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 3: guess can now be considered like the yellow journalism of

619
00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 3: the Internet, the short attention span, theater of news aggregation

620
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 3: and clickbait, like to take someone's like in depth researched

621
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 3: and you know, a great personal cost safety wise and

622
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 3: physically to go out live amongst these people do a

623
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 3: serious piece of jobsjournalism to them be kind of co

624
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 3: opted into this what the writer himself calls a false narrative.

625
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it gets into the whole. I only read

626
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: the first couple of words in the article or just

627
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 2: the title, right, because if you even if you look

628
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 2: at the New York Post article, you read about how

629
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 2: it's the culture that is being altered and the fears

630
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 2: of the elder members of the tribe that this kind

631
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: of influence is going to be detrimental to the generally

632
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: chaste culture that they have, and they've shared right for

633
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 2: a long long time. This new influence comes in, they're

634
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 2: nervous about it. It's not about what the headline even

635
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: says it is in this article I'm reading right now.

636
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 2: And they're nervous about all the things that everybody, every

637
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 2: parent gets nervous about, oh, first person shooter, video games.

638
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 2: They're nervous about the violence that the younger that the

639
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 2: younger members of the tribes are being exposed to, and

640
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: that they might want to try shooting people or be

641
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 2: violent in some way, or they might be a little

642
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 2: more aggressive in their sexuality. I mean, that is part

643
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: of the story, right, But yes, they even lay it

644
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 2: all out in the new or post article. They just

645
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 2: try and put that headline there to make you click

646
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 2: on it.

647
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. There really isn't anything in the

648
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 3: body of the aggregate because you know, they can't really

649
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 3: do that. That's something. They can package it a certain way,

650
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: but they can't quote make up quotes that aren't in

651
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 3: the original piece. And you're right, Matt, there really isn't

652
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,520
Speaker 3: anything in the writing or in the pieces that are

653
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 3: lifted or paraphrased from the original piece that indicates some

654
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: sort of widespread porn addiction. It is literally just you know,

655
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 3: clickbait headlining stuff. I think the closest thing we get

656
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 3: to is, just like what you said, Matt, the idea

657
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:51,120
Speaker 3: of witnessing more aggressive and sexual type behavior in a

658
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 3: culture that prides themselves on modesty, you know, or rather

659
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 3: like lack of PD. Public displays of affection kissing I

660
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 3: think is even considered taboo.

661
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 2: The most telling thing for me in the article, though,

662
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: is that the elders noticed already that members of the

663
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 2: tribe are not spending as much time interacting in person

664
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: with one another. People are already doing the things that

665
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,919
Speaker 2: we Westerners and everybody else has been doing for so long,

666
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 2: just hanging out with our phones and that's about it.

667
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 4: We've talked about this before many previous episodes. One of

668
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 4: the best, unfortunately most ubiquitous situations with this occurs with

669
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 4: science reporting. A hardworking scientist or group out thereof bust

670
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 4: their humps, and one line from the study is pulled

671
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 4: and becomes a viral headline. Because, like you said, Matt,

672
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 4: people need to read the stuff more in depth. The

673
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 4: last point I will make is that the story of

674
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 4: outside groups contacting indigenous people, especially in the Amazon is

675
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 4: often a story of genocide and terror and very very

676
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 4: bad things. One of the biggest concerns was the spread

677
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 4: of disease, that these tribes had no immunity for these communities,

678
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 4: And then with that, I would pause it really interested

679
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:19,919
Speaker 4: in everybody's thoughts here is spreading social media and internet connectivity.

680
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 4: Is it kind of like spreading a disease.

681
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 3: For the social disease? Absolutely? Reely? No, I think so. No,

682
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 3: I think especially when you don't have any immunity to

683
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 3: it yet at all, you're getting it, getting the most extreme,

684
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 3: fun attenuated version of it from scratch, right, Like we've

685
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 3: grown up around the internet, you know, our kids have

686
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,439
Speaker 3: grown up with the Internet, so one would hope they've

687
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 3: developed some coping mechanisms or some ways of like dialing

688
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,800
Speaker 3: it back and taking it with a grain of salt,

689
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 3: you know. But if you're like, can you imagine just

690
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 3: getting like the full dose of like a of a

691
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 3: disease without any ability of your immune system to have

692
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: worked up a resistance to it. So I think it's

693
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 3: a perfect analogy. Ben, And I'll just end with just

694
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 3: reading this one last quote. This is from the actual

695
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 3: New York Times piece referring to a tribal woman who

696
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 3: he's observing. She was needing jennapopo berries to make a

697
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,279
Speaker 3: black body paint and wearing ropes of jewelry made from

698
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 3: snail shells. Lately, the youth had become less interested in

699
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 3: making such dies and jewelry, she said. A quote here.

700
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: Young people have gotten lazy because of the Internet. She said,

701
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 3: they're learning the ways of the white people. Then she

702
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 3: paused and added, but please don't take our internet away.

703
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: You can't put that genie back in the bottle. Is

704
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 3: the issue. I think that's it for me. Guys. Let's

705
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: take a quick break. You're a word from our sponsor,

706
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 3: and then come back with one more piece of strange news.

707
00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:59,319
Speaker 2: And we've returned. Legos, Guys, Legos love them. Lego My

708
00:40:59,440 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 2: Legos is the title of this story coming out of

709
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 2: ABC News in California and Southern California, to be exact.

710
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: It comes to us on June third of twenty twenty four.

711
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: Thieves target several so Cow Lego shops in string of burglaries.

712
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: At this time. On June third, several of these very

713
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: specific Lego and minifig stores called Bricks and minifigs. They're

714
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,359
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of them. You can find there's one

715
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 2: in John's Creek near US.

716
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 3: Guys.

717
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 2: These stores in southern California have been broken into in

718
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:40,360
Speaker 2: thousands of dollars worth of boxed Lego sets have been stolen.

719
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 2: Eyewitness News that's part of ABC there. They obtained surveillance

720
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 2: video from several of the incidents, and on June third

721
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 2: they showed some of the footage in their reporting. It

722
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:57,040
Speaker 2: appears to be two thieves that are going it appears

723
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: at least and at the time, according to the owner

724
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,919
Speaker 2: of these stores, they thought it was the same one

725
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 2: or two individuals that was going to each one of

726
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: these different stores and just taken as many Lego sets

727
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 2: as they possibly could. Riverside, California, Whittier, whit t I

728
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: e R. Whittier, Wittier. Maybe I don't know, well, I

729
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: don't know how to say that part of California. Sorry,

730
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: stores in Ontario, then in Anaheim and Coasta Mesa. In

731
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 2: Anaheim and coast O Mesa, the burglaries were unsuccessful and

732
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 2: only damage was done to the windows. That's very important.

733
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 2: But either way, on June third, it was already being

734
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 2: reported that there was a string of robberies at these

735
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 2: bricks and Minifig's stores. Then you guys. ABC News comes

736
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 2: back on June seventh to report that the Los Angeles

737
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: Police Department has discovered over two thousand, eight hundred boxes

738
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 2: of Legos like Lego sets in a single bust.

739
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 4: Gotta be a change building a dream.

740
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: Right, right, So it was a residential home that had

741
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,800
Speaker 2: it looked like a store. To be honest, when you

742
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 2: with the photos that were shared by ABC News as

743
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 2: well as by CBS, it shows just huge, almost store

744
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: room looking shelves that are filled with like the same

745
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: R two D two Lego set that's worth a whole

746
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 2: bunch of money, the same whatever other set that's just

747
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 2: laid out of tons and tons of them in one place.

748
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 2: Turns out there's this guy named Richard Siegel, seventy one

749
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: years old, and another person named Blanca Gudino who is

750
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: thirty nine. They are both suspected of running these thefts

751
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 2: all over California, then collecting all the Lego sets together

752
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:54,319
Speaker 2: theoretically or at least allegedly, to sell them on secondary markets, right,

753
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:57,399
Speaker 2: whether it's Facebook marketplace or what are the other ones

754
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 2: that people still use, I don't know, eBay, yeah, Farmerly, Yeah,

755
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:05,360
Speaker 2: probably Farmly.

756
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 4: That's a bunch of yeah. Yeah. There are a bunch

757
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 4: of these different aftermarkets, and there are some probably Lego

758
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 4: brick specific forums, because if you ever watch videos of

759
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 4: uh of the Lego conventions, people do go very nuts

760
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 4: for rare minifigs or just for unopened packages of things,

761
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 4: or even personal favorite, the people who go bonkers building

762
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 4: out their own elaborate Lego worlds where you can get.

763
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 3: At the individual pieces. They're all label they have their

764
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 3: own codes, each little tiny component and if you've seen

765
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,040
Speaker 3: the Lego movie at the end of the first one,

766
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 3: I think it was with Will Ferrell, where he's like

767
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 3: a Lego adult and he's got like what amounts to

768
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 3: a workshop, you know, with every single possible piece in

769
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 3: their own drawer kind of tag. It's a whole world

770
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 3: around it, and they get quite expensive. Another example of

771
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 3: what you're talking about, Ben would be trace sets. Yeah,

772
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 3: Monald Chain said that mean, in terms of the things

773
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 3: that hold their value would be limited edition stuff that's

774
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 3: unopened that they no longer make, even though they are

775
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 3: all composed of the same pieces. You could technically do

776
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 3: it what Lego is really selling. Are these designs right?

777
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 3: It's kind of fascinating.

778
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, dude, shout out magic the gathering. Buy your old

779
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 2: packs somewhere and then just store them away so future

780
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 2: college fund. That's right. So the reason why these suspects

781
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,359
Speaker 2: are currently in custody, why that home was searched, it's

782
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 2: because there was another another one of these stores on

783
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,080
Speaker 2: they it says North Gaffey Street and San Pedro, where

784
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 2: ye old loss prevention personnel identified Gudino as the suspect.

785
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: Then they watched her take it to Richard Siegel's home,

786
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 2: and they got a search warrant for that home, and

787
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: they walked in and they went, Holy mackerel, these folks

788
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: are starting a Lego store. Uh two hundred boxes of

789
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 2: Legos if you can imagine, there are very tiny boxes

790
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 2: of Lego sets. Others are very large. Think I'm trying

791
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 2: to think of another like box that is that size,

792
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 2: you guys, But if you've ever walked into a Best Buy,

793
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: there's a little section that they have now that's Lego sets,

794
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 2: especially the nicer ones that usually have a black.

795
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 3: Behind the counter.

796
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 2: Yes, because some of them are like three hundred dollars

797
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 2: five hundred dollars and these.

798
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 4: Folks far more expensive as well.

799
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's just so crazy. Police on Wednesday,

800
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: according to ABC saw there were ads for a lot

801
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:50,640
Speaker 2: of these toys online and uh, it gets deeper into this,

802
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 2: but anyway, the whole point of this was just it's

803
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 2: crazy that you could break into a bunch of brick

804
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 2: and mortar stores and bricks, yeah, bricks and collectibles whatever,

805
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:05,799
Speaker 2: to break into these stores then just take it back

806
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 2: to your house and then try and just sell them.

807
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,360
Speaker 2: And it's similar to the retail thefts that we saw

808
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: early right where it was an organized thing where one

809
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 2: person appears to have been paying a whole swath of

810
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: people to go out and make these thefts. These brazen

811
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 2: just grab and walk out the store thefts, take them

812
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: to a central location, and then sell them on secondary markets.

813
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 4: Especially if you have a if you have a window

814
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 4: of time where you can retain these things and not

815
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:39,239
Speaker 4: sell them immediately, wait till they get discontinued, and then

816
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,239
Speaker 4: bang the price up, you know what I mean. It's yeah,

817
00:47:42,719 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 4: very it's very easy to do. It's not fun for

818
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 4: the people who would actually you know, enjoy the legos,

819
00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 4: right or enjoy the lego bricks. I think the company

820
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 4: wants us to call us the call them those, but

821
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 4: it is I think, like you're saying, it is teaching

822
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 4: us there's a market for everything. High value, low weight,

823
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 4: easy to move product like this that doesn't have any

824
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 4: telling smells yep, is not itself inherently illegal. It looks

825
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 4: like too, with all the multiple copies of very high

826
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 4: end things like seeing the Star Wars collectors and stuff,

827
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 4: it looks like some of this might have just come

828
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 4: straight off a truck. It might not have made it

829
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 4: to a store. You know, maybe that guy had a

830
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 4: good operation going ethics aside, he was very organized.

831
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 2: Well yeah, whoever was involved, because it's unknown if there

832
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 2: are other people involved, right, The LAPD is still asking

833
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: for tips. If anyone has any information on these crimes,

834
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 2: it says, to reach out to them. You can find

835
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: out how to do that if you wish, if you've

836
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 2: got some info. Last thing here, the boxes ranged from

837
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 2: twenty dollars a piece to well over one thousand dollars

838
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 2: a piece. Looking at several millennium falcons here, which are

839
00:48:58,719 --> 00:48:59,320
Speaker 2: not cheap.

840
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 4: It's very difficult too, and we're not the only ones

841
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,600
Speaker 4: saying this not to be too much of a nerd,

842
00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:10,240
Speaker 4: but it's very difficult as an adult entity to justify

843
00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 4: spending that much. I like, looking at.

844
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,239
Speaker 2: It, very true, I will, I'll put this out here.

845
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: I splurged on my son's birthday and got him a

846
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 2: three hundred dollars set that I was like, this is

847
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:27,480
Speaker 2: all we're getting, pal, this is all It was a Bowser,

848
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 2: a giant it's amazing, but it was three hundred dollars

849
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 2: and I just like, when I looked at it, it

850
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 2: was out of Barnes and Noble, and I just went

851
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 2: really because he then wanted he saw it in the window,

852
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:44,000
Speaker 2: he wanted it. We talked about it for months, like okay,

853
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 2: if that's your birthday present, that's it. And I didn't

854
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 2: even know how much it costs until I picked up

855
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 2: the box and just had to like catch myself.

856
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 4: You went past that emotional threshold for the kid you

857
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 4: picked it up. You can't put it down.

858
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 3: Judah to scary and let's be real, Matt, it was

859
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:03,359
Speaker 3: a little bit for you too.

860
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 2: Come on, Yeah, no, for sure, because he was he

861
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 2: was he knew who Bowser was and he was into it.

862
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 2: And I was like, you know what all right together, Oh.

863
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: I understand curses. I've come is the Fender guitar and

864
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 3: amplifier set, which I think is around one hundred. But

865
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 3: I got that because I'm a nerd. I like Fender guitars,

866
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 3: and Eden was into it and we built it together,

867
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 3: so it was super I think that's one thing that's

868
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,279
Speaker 3: neat about legos is it is kind of for the

869
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 3: parents too. It's just this interesting middle ground. But I

870
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 3: mean to y'all's point though about this, this this resale

871
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 3: market for you know, fencing stolen items. It's interesting that

872
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 3: Lego is almost his own category. There are other categories

873
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 3: like that. There have been a rash of thefts of

874
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 3: lawn care equipment here in the Atlanta area, where a

875
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 3: lot of people keep that stuff on a trailer outside

876
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 3: their house. And a buddy of mine who does that

877
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 3: for a living. He's a musician, but he makes you

878
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 3: know his day day work is doing lawn maintenance and landscaping.

879
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 3: He got he said it was. He was on the news.

880
00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 3: It was around probably thirty thousand dollars worth of landscaping

881
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 3: stuff still gone. That's your livelihood gone, because apparently you

882
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 3: know that stuff's easy and quick to flip.

883
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 4: Yeah and that thank you for seeing the wait seeing

884
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 4: the Mandalorian.

885
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: Pause. I'm just so proud that was the Mandalorian. Ben,

886
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 2: that's a.

887
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 4: Joke for us, that's a joke.

888
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 3: Oh, No, I missed it. I was I was let

889
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 3: in another window. Dang, I missed it.

890
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 2: Ben. That showed us his model that was completed. I

891
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,879
Speaker 2: think it looked amazing of the Mandalorian.

892
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 3: Very awesome. That's very cool. Sorry I missed it.

893
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 4: No, No, it's still going to be there for a

894
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 4: while until we sell it to someone. Right, that's true

895
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 4: decades since. But yeah, I think there there is that

896
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 4: power to collection. Obviously, we love nerdy stuff. We love

897
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 4: nerdy collections. I would love to hear somebody's weirdest collection

898
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 4: that you're passionate about, Like if you have, for instance,

899
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 4: if you just have a room of what are those

900
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 4: troll troll dolls called? I think there'stros Okay confirmed, I'm

901
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 4: very plugged in with the zeitgeist. Yeah, if you have that,

902
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 4: send it to us. I want to see. It'd be

903
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,359
Speaker 4: cool to hear from listeners about like your biggest, most

904
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:18,880
Speaker 4: extensive collection that you have, or your friend has bonus

905
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 4: points for specificity, the more weirdly specific.

906
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 3: If I told you guys that I collect crucifixes, Yeah,

907
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:28,080
Speaker 3: I have an entire wall covered in crucifixes, and I

908
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 3: now have to just get small ones because I got

909
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 3: to fill in the gaps. There's no more room for

910
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:34,640
Speaker 3: big ones or I'm gonna have to spill out onto

911
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 3: another wall. But I love crucifixes, and there's so many

912
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,239
Speaker 3: different styles and varieties of them. So that's that's mine.

913
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell stories out of school. But

914
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 2: my neighbor just found out collects hot wheels, and uh,

915
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 2: they show are They showed me the collection. It was

916
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 2: way more hot wheels than I've ever seen.

917
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:56,640
Speaker 4: That I didn't considered were produced.

918
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:00,600
Speaker 2: I didn't think there were that many, he assured me.

919
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 2: He also showed me the security system surrounding it, like

920
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 2: taking it seriously. And he's a sniper, so I was like,

921
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 2: you know what, I think you'll be safe there.

922
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 4: Everybody's got a thing, man, everybody's got a couple of things,

923
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,560
Speaker 4: sniping and hot wheels.

924
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,840
Speaker 2: Well, hey, speaking of snipers, Uh, we're not We're not

925
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:21,279
Speaker 2: gonna spend a lot of time on this, but we'll

926
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 2: just put this story out there so you're aware of

927
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 2: it and you can look at look it up on

928
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:28,240
Speaker 2: your own if you wish to. There's a very intense

929
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 2: story regarding ye old company, Chiquita.

930
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 3: You know them.

931
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: You've bought bananas before, or you've at least seen them

932
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:39,240
Speaker 2: at a Kroger or publics or wherever.

933
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,840
Speaker 4: Jaquita Bananas shout out to the one person in the

934
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 4: audience who's like, I have never actually eaten a banana.

935
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:47,839
Speaker 4: We wish you luck on your journey. Find a good

936
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 4: fear this part first before you try your first banana.

937
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then move on to plantains. They're amazing. Okay. So,

938
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 2: Chiquita Banana or Chiquita Brand's international rather, has been found

939
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 2: liable for funding, or rather financing, let's say, a Colombian

940
00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 2: paramilitary group.

941
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 3: We've heard about this before. This has happened in the past, right, yes, yeah.

942
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, there are several issues that this specific group,

943
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: the United Self Defense Forces of Columbia or the AUC,

944
00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 2: They've been involved in several things. They are designated as

945
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:26,880
Speaker 2: a terrorist organization by the United States. And it appears

946
00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,280
Speaker 2: that at least according to this court and the evidence

947
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 2: that was provided to it and presented Chiquida Brands International

948
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:38,759
Speaker 2: was funding this group, or at least partly funding this

949
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 2: group on a monthly basis, and it all ties back

950
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 2: to several deaths. They pled guilty already in two thousand

951
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 2: and seven to making payments to this group. They've pled guilty.

952
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 2: So then the families of victims of this group came

953
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 2: forward and made a much larger case against Chiquida Brands International,

954
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 2: and it appears that they have won that case.

955
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 3: So what is it.

956
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 2: Thirty eight point three million dollars in damages will be paid,

957
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: or at least they've Chiqeta Brands International has been ordered

958
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 2: to pay that amount of money. We'll see how that goes,

959
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,040
Speaker 2: because there is going to be an appeal. Of course,

960
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 2: it's a large company. That's a lot of money. But yeah,

961
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,280
Speaker 2: it was a federal court case in South Florida.

962
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 4: And they also they of course they're appealing, but they

963
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 4: also already, like you said, no one's debating whether or

964
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 4: not they did this.

965
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they admitted to it well years ago, yeah,

966
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:40,240
Speaker 2: like a seven or something. Yeah, in two thousand and seven,

967
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 2: and they allegedly paid one point seven million dollars to

968
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 2: this group, Chiquita Brands to this AUC group, and that

969
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 2: was from nineteen ninety seven to two thousand and four.

970
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 4: And you guys know, AUC's far right right politically, they're

971
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 4: They're not like the communist Garia the enemies thereof.

972
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:06,440
Speaker 2: Yes, well it gets complicated, right, freedom fighter versus whatever,

973
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:07,560
Speaker 2: this terrorist.

974
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, the history is fascinating and I think it explains

975
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:13,000
Speaker 4: some of these dirty corporate partnerships.

976
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mentioned, you know, I think this is

977
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,759
Speaker 3: what you guys. You guys knew what I was talking about.

978
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:22,720
Speaker 3: The United Fruit Company actually helped fund a nineteen fifty

979
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:26,840
Speaker 3: four Guatemalan Coup de ta. There is historical precedent for

980
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 3: this kind of thing in terms of making things more

981
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:34,040
Speaker 3: beneficial to the corporations, you know, depending on who's in

982
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,759
Speaker 3: power when it affects the other bottom line, it's it's

983
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 3: not unheard of.

984
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 4: Shout out to Edward Burnees. Yeah, Edward Burnees instrumental in

985
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 4: the guatemal And coup. We know that these large companies,

986
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 4: the names may change and the tactics may evolve a

987
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 4: little bit, but this is not coming out of left field.

988
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 4: And if you want to learn more about CIA partnerships

989
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 4: with private organizations for resource extraction, check out our book.

990
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 4: In a burst of creativity, we named it stuff they

991
00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 4: don't want you to know.

992
00:57:06,480 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 2: Ay ay, I guess we'll leave you with this. This

993
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 2: is a statement from one of the leading lawyers for

994
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 2: the plaintiffs in this massive class action lawsuit that was

995
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: brought forth by the families. There were nine cases in

996
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 2: that case that were focused on out of hundreds of

997
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 2: cases that were available to be prosecuted. Basically, and this

998
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,680
Speaker 2: is a statement from one of the one of the

999
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:33,040
Speaker 2: plaintiffs quote. The verdict does not bring back the husbands

1000
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: and sons who were killed, but it sets the record

1001
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: straight and it places accountability for funding terrorism where it

1002
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 2: belongs at Chiquita's doorstep.

1003
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 3: Wow. By the way, Jaquita is the corporate successor to

1004
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 3: the United Fruit Company. Yes, that's why. Okay, sorry, sorry

1005
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:54,960
Speaker 3: what you meant like in general, but no that in

1006
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 3: actual facts in this situation. Yes, that's who yeky.

1007
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: And this reporting, by the ways from the BBC on Tuesday,

1008
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 2: June eleventh, you can read it. It's titled Banana Giant

1009
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,800
Speaker 2: held liable for funding paramilitaries and they note at the

1010
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 2: very end of that article that there's a second case

1011
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 2: that's being brought against Schaqida by another group of plaintiffs,

1012
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: and it is beginning on July fifteenth.

1013
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 3: Can you get just entered?

1014
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, live cooking here, folks. And these are stories that

1015
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 4: sometimes can disappear from the news as the appeal process

1016
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:35,480
Speaker 4: whens on slowly and as we confront the ever present

1017
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 4: threat of government and corporate corruption. So we'll have to

1018
00:58:39,480 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 4: see how this develops. But I'm really glad there does

1019
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 4: seem to be forward progress. We've got so much other

1020
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 4: stuff we didn't get to that we mentioned at the top,

1021
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:51,600
Speaker 4: but I believe we're going to call it an evening

1022
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 4: and take our noctivigations breaking that word back.

1023
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 3: And in the.

1024
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,720
Speaker 4: Meantime, we would love to hear your thoughts. I'm so

1025
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 4: excited to see weird elections.

1026
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,240
Speaker 3: That's right, tell us show us yours. Jeez, we were

1027
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,320
Speaker 3: asking for cat picks. Show us your weird collection picks,

1028
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 3: as long as it's not like human remainsers. Well, I

1029
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,680
Speaker 3: don't know, okay, bones are okay, just not like you know.

1030
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:15,560
Speaker 4: Show us your collections. No questions asked, fair enough, but

1031
00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 4: you know what, I retracted everything I said.

1032
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,320
Speaker 3: I actually bought a drum machine once from a very

1033
00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 3: nice fellow who showed me his display case of human skulls,

1034
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 3: apparently illegal to transport across state lines, but not illegal

1035
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 3: to own or to possess. You can find us at

1036
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,440
Speaker 3: the handle conspiracy Stuff, where we exist on Facebook, or

1037
00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 3: we have our Facebook group Here's where it gets crazy

1038
00:59:35,520 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 3: on xfka, Twitter and on YouTube, or we have video

1039
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 3: content rolling out every single week on Instagram. At TikTok

1040
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 3: we're conspiracy Stuff Show.

1041
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: Hey, do you like calling people? Call us. Our number

1042
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 2: is one eight three three st d wytk. Before you

1043
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 2: choose to call in, why not put that number as

1044
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:58,000
Speaker 2: a contact on your phone. Call it std wytk or

1045
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 2: Ben mattin Nole, whatever you want to do, just call it,

1046
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,880
Speaker 2: and when you do, give yourself a cool nickname. You've

1047
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,560
Speaker 2: got three minutes. Say whatever you want to include in

1048
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 2: that message. If you would like for us to use

1049
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,440
Speaker 2: this message on air, give us permission to do so,

1050
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 2: and to use your name in your voice. If you

1051
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 2: don't want to do that one instead, send us a

1052
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 2: good old fashioned email.

1053
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 4: Wherein we hope we hope you react to this question.

1054
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 4: If possession of a human skull is illegal, then how

1055
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 4: would you enforce it? Because we all possess at least

1056
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,480
Speaker 4: one to any other kind of shower thoughts. Let us know,

1057
01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:34,840
Speaker 4: write to the void, be well aware. Sometimes the void

1058
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:39,640
Speaker 4: writes back any old day, any old hour. Conspiracy at

1059
01:00:39,680 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio dot com.

1060
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 2: If they don't want you to know, is a production

1061
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1062
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,360
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.