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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Iggy Pop is one of the craziest rock and

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Speaker 1: roll frontmen to ever grace the stage. As a lead

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Speaker 1: singer of The Stooges, Iggy was known for bending and

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Speaker 1: contorting his sometimes blooded body while feverishly pacing the stage

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Speaker 1: like a wild animal. His fifty year career has been

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Speaker 1: as tumultuous as his performance style. After starting the Stooges

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Speaker 1: in Michigan in sixty seven, the band released three albums,

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Speaker 1: including fun House and rob Power. The band eventually disbanded

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Speaker 1: in the mid seventies, and Iggy went solo, recording a

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Speaker 1: series of albums, some of which were instant classics like

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Speaker 1: the two recorded with David Bowie, and others more experimental

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Speaker 1: actually some of my personal favorites. At seventy five years old,

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Speaker 1: He's just released his newest album, produced by Andrew Watt,

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Speaker 1: Every Loser. On today's episode, Iggy shares incredible stories with

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Speaker 1: Very Ruben about his career. Their conversation was so great

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Speaker 1: we decided to split it into two consecutive episodes. Today.

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Speaker 1: In part one, will hear Iggy reminisce about recording fun

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Speaker 1: House in Los Angeles and the first time he saw

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Speaker 1: the ocean He also talks about the tight knit rock

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Speaker 1: scene in Detroit and how it was in some ways

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Speaker 1: led by a local Madman, writer, activist, and music manager

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Speaker 1: named John Sinclair. And stay put at the end of

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Speaker 1: this episode to hear his song off of Iggy's newest album,

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Speaker 1: This is Broken Record liner notes for the Digital Age.

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Speaker 1: I'm justin Richmond. Here's Rick Rubin in conversation with Iggy Pop.

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Speaker 1: Rick recorded his side in parts unknown, and Iggy recorded

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Speaker 1: his side of the conversation at Shanger Law in Malibu.

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Speaker 1: He what's happening to me? How are you feeling? Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm alright, good. It's good to see you. Good air

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Speaker 1: up here, Yeah, really really nice. Yeah, you're sitting in

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Speaker 1: my usual spot. That's where I usually hang out. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's great. That's a good spot. I used to drive

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Speaker 1: over here a lot when when La would get you know,

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Speaker 1: too close. You know, I understood. When did you live

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Speaker 1: in La? Well, I lived here around here seventy seventy three,

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Speaker 1: seventy four and then a little bit into seventy five,

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Speaker 1: so about two and a half years. But I would

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Speaker 1: come out a lot in the eighties. You sort of

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Speaker 1: had to come here to do things. You know a

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Speaker 1: lot in nineties two? And when you when you left LA,

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Speaker 1: did you moved to New York? When I left LA

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Speaker 1: in the seventies, I hitched onto David Bowie's Station a

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Speaker 1: Station tour and started writing with him as that tour

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Speaker 1: progressed across America until we got busted in Rochester and

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Speaker 1: then from there went to Europe. How did you guys

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Speaker 1: hook up in the first place? We hooked up originally

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Speaker 1: when I was staying in New York in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: one at the loft department of a guy named Danny Fields,

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Speaker 1: who was a key positive force for people like the

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Speaker 1: Ramons myself. He helped out Lou Reed in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways, all sorts of all sorts of good people.

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Speaker 1: Did Danny sign you to Electra? Danny was the guy

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Speaker 1: who originally came to the Union Ballroom at University of

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Speaker 1: Michigan to see the MC five and we were opening

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Speaker 1: and he saw us, and he recommended. We spoke, and

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Speaker 1: he recommended to Jack Holtzman that well, if you're going

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Speaker 1: to sign the five, maybe you should sign this other

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Speaker 1: band too. I thought they had something amazing. He was

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Speaker 1: he was the guy. Yeah, they didn't have a functioning

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Speaker 1: A and R. A lot of a lot of labels

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Speaker 1: didn't at the time, so he was there publicist. But

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Speaker 1: he was the kind of guy that Jack Holtzmann used

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Speaker 1: as the in house hipster, you know, the guy who

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Speaker 1: knew what was going on and what was cool. And

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Speaker 1: apparently he had good taste, because at that time I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine any other label signing those two bands well exactly,

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Speaker 1: and Danny had very, very event taste. He was a

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Speaker 1: very intelligent, well educated guy. He'd graduated Princeton University, and

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Speaker 1: he was a kind of a low key, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of guide were a little suede or leather jacket

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Speaker 1: but not too flashy, and slacks and that was about

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Speaker 1: that was about as far towards straightness he would go.

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Speaker 1: But he didn't. He wasn't flamboyant about anything, and he

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Speaker 1: sort of fit right in with the back room crowd

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Speaker 1: at Max's with Andy. Warhol would hold court with a

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Speaker 1: group of sort of young eccentrics in New York. They

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Speaker 1: were like people who should have been the Kennedys and

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Speaker 1: they weren't. They were like intelligent, nice looking American kids

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Speaker 1: gone hard left suddenly, and if you became a Warhol star,

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Speaker 1: and we're willing to work in his movies. You got

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Speaker 1: a little paper, a little sort of piece of paper

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Speaker 1: similar to the draft cards at the time, with Andy

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Speaker 1: Warrell's signature that you could present at Max's Kansas City

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Speaker 1: and get all you could eat, but you had to

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Speaker 1: pay for your own drinks. Wow. So yeah, that's how

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Speaker 1: he paid his feel. Yeah. Yeah. It was a little

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Speaker 1: oval room at the back of a steak and beer

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Speaker 1: joint on Union Square, and you would have. The first

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Speaker 1: time I went in there was because Danny was calling

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Speaker 1: me on his phone. I was staying in his loft

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Speaker 1: and I was watching mister Smith Goes to Washington on

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Speaker 1: his TV. And I was just almost in tears at

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Speaker 1: the sincerity of his willie just to take on the corruption,

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Speaker 1: and you know, I was relating it to the music industry.

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Speaker 1: I have was plenty angry at the time. And he

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Speaker 1: had to call me three times. He said, there's some

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Speaker 1: people down here. They really want to meet you. It's

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Speaker 1: David Bowie and his group and you could do yourself

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Speaker 1: a favorite, damn it. So I finally, yeah, I finally said,

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Speaker 1: all right, all right, you know, okay, we'll meet these

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Speaker 1: strange people, and I went down there one in the

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Speaker 1: morning and Lou Lou Reid was down there, David Tony

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Speaker 1: Defreese his manager who had a manager get up Big

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Speaker 1: Cigar for quote, the Big Frow, you know. But also

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Speaker 1: down there was an Ultra Violet and Taylor Mead, who

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Speaker 1: was just a strange, very flamboyant street character. There was

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Speaker 1: a wonderful guy named Donald Lyons in that group who

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Speaker 1: was a professor of Greek. He could teach you, yeah,

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Speaker 1: actual he spoke Greek and Latin. But it was just

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Speaker 1: a cool guy, right. It's like someone it was like

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Speaker 1: my dad without being judgmental, you know, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: just somebody like you know, wow, it educated man who

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Speaker 1: wears a suit and everything, but it's just like easy going,

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Speaker 1: you know. And gosh, who else was down there? Baby

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Speaker 1: Jane Holtz was there that night and they all just

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Speaker 1: sit around and chitter chatter a lot. Had you had

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Speaker 1: been aware of Bowie's music at this point in time

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Speaker 1: or not? Really, I was only aware that he had.

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Speaker 1: He'd mentioned the Stooges or maybe it was me in

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Speaker 1: a little piece in the Melody Maker magazine as one

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Speaker 1: of his favorite groups or favorite songs, and I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: It was right around that time that I heard what

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Speaker 1: he was what he was doing, which was the album

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Speaker 1: I think it was Hunky Dory and it had Life

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Speaker 1: on Mars, and I remember listen to it and I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: this is not my cup of tea, but whoa, this

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Speaker 1: guy can do things musically, Holy cow, you know, they're

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Speaker 1: incredible grasp of melody and not only chord changes, but

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Speaker 1: he would actually do harmonic shifts and uh and transpositions

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Speaker 1: and well, oh, dear, dear, dear me. And he had

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Speaker 1: he had the range in his voice to carry what

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Speaker 1: they call lift a chorus, you know, the old lift

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Speaker 1: the chorus singing the song the refrain. So that was

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Speaker 1: out I think at the time, and I was listening

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Speaker 1: to that and that was my That was my first impression. Bold,

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Speaker 1: not any it's not at all related, like you know,

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Speaker 1: tough bro rock music, but there are skills. This person

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Speaker 1: has actual skills. Who were the tough bro rock music

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Speaker 1: that spoke to you in those days at the time.

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Speaker 1: Mitch Rider in the Detroit Wheels, for instance. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's still alive, right, yes he is, and he's still

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Speaker 1: doing us. They still do the same songs. And gigs

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Speaker 1: and Johnny b who is amazing, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the finest drummers in America. Still will go out, still

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Speaker 1: play with him. But Johnny also did like Stevie Nicks tours.

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Speaker 1: You know, he gets he gets good work. Who else

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Speaker 1: music like that. I always liked the MC five quite

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Speaker 1: a bit. There were some things I liked more than others,

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Speaker 1: like like with anybody else, you know, I liked. I

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Speaker 1: liked very much the Stones albums where they did mostly covers,

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Speaker 1: that was what I was listening to it first. I

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Speaker 1: liked very, very very much the first album by the

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Speaker 1: Paul Butterfield Blues band, We're Born in Chicago, and Melodon Easy.

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Speaker 1: They were doing a lot of little Wallder and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and they had a mixed band. Some of the guys

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Speaker 1: were born into the White Side and some of the

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Speaker 1: guys born into the Black tradition. And sam Ley was

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Speaker 1: on drums, who was later it was nice to me

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Speaker 1: and then he played on Higher sixty one. Revisited the

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Speaker 1: Dylan album That's sound. Did you like Hendrix Hendrix incredibly much? Hendrix?

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Speaker 1: I saw him because we were in the Midwest at

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Speaker 1: the time, in the old days when the groups would

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Speaker 1: come over. You had to get from the east coast

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Speaker 1: to the west or vice versa. And Anne Arbor and

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Speaker 1: Detroit was one of the stops. So I saw Jimmy

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Speaker 1: Hendricks in ann Arbor, Michigan, in a converted bowling alley

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Speaker 1: on a stage about twelve inches high. And I was

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Speaker 1: right in front of that stage, and he had a

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Speaker 1: single stack and Mitch Mitchell on drums and Knoll on bass,

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Speaker 1: and he wore the suit with the eyes and he

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Speaker 1: played the hell out of it. And the stage was

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Speaker 1: right in front of the men's room at I remember

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Speaker 1: before the break, see Mitch Mitchell had to go into

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Speaker 1: the bedroom and come back. You know, it's a little

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Speaker 1: odd things that you remember like that right right there.

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Speaker 1: And in Detroit, Michigan, at the Grande Ballroom, where the

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Speaker 1: Stooges played a lot, and especially with the MC five.

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Speaker 1: We opened for the Who, we opened for Cream, we

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Speaker 1: opened for Sly and the Family Stone. You could see

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Speaker 1: Van Morrison, you know, everybody played there. And again the

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Speaker 1: very close quarters kind of must have held a thousand people.

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Speaker 1: One window, very hot and low procenium, so you were

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Speaker 1: really right there. You could really see it, really hear

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Speaker 1: it for what it was led Zeppelin also led Zeppelin

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Speaker 1: didn't want to use there were these two tiny dressing

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Speaker 1: rooms next to the stage. They didn't want to use that,

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Speaker 1: so they used the manager's office and walked through the

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Speaker 1: crowd to get on stage. But in those days, when

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Speaker 1: Jimmy Page hit his guitar, the sound you heard was

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Speaker 1: coming out of his amp. It was not miked through APA.

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Speaker 1: In those days. At an average ballroom there, PA would

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Speaker 1: be used only for the vocals and they'd usually be

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Speaker 1: one mic placed under the snare drum on the battering

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Speaker 1: side of the bass drum, goin to collect everything and

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Speaker 1: that was about it, you know. So it was a

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Speaker 1: it was a more organic sound, and it was great

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Speaker 1: if you were in the right spot, you know, would

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Speaker 1: you move position to get it to sound as good

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Speaker 1: as he could? Like yes, next, yes, oh hell yeah,

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Speaker 1: yeah that's it, you bet I did. Yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: push yeah, push my way absolutely because you would have

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Speaker 1: to do that, you know, if you were on the

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Speaker 1: guitar side, you'd hear more of that and you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: hear the bass much. Amazing. Yeah. When the who played there,

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Speaker 1: Townsend had the Leslie speaker, you know, the large wooden

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Speaker 1: box with the JBL twelve in speaker and then the

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Speaker 1: fan going around him and want to want to do

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Speaker 1: that to your guitar, And he had that up on

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Speaker 1: stage and in those days it was very hard. H

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Speaker 1: Sly had a B three, so they had to bring

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Speaker 1: to B three. There's no B three in the Psychedelic Ballroom.

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Speaker 1: They had somebody had to get that B three in

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Speaker 1: there and get it out. It was a big deal.

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Speaker 1: That's a huge piece of stuff, you know, So things

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Speaker 1: were different. I always preferred those songs. It's a different

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Speaker 1: world down and a great sound engineer can do a

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Speaker 1: lot of stuff to manipulate what's coming out of the amp. Sly,

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Speaker 1: But the problem is it can become sammy to my ears,

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Speaker 1: in other words, to my ears, still, a drum kit

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Speaker 1: sounds like a drum kit. It's very, very exciting. It's

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Speaker 1: a boom when you hit the whack or didn't didn't

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Speaker 1: ding whatever it is, and a bass sounds like a bass, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And I usually prefer minimum interference. But it's it's different now.

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Speaker 1: It's better to use some smaller amps, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I get that, but something is lost with size. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to say what's better, though, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: just I wouldn't say better, just say you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just different. I just recently recorded an album with

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Speaker 1: Neil Young in that room, and he had you did that?

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Speaker 1: I heard the first one. It's good. Yeah, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: did that there, and yeah it was all live and

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Speaker 1: all of the amps were in the room and they

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Speaker 1: were playing blisteringly loud, and yeah, yeah we miked it.

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Speaker 1: But on every mic you can hear every instrument, you know,

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Speaker 1: because it's just a barrage of sound in the space.

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Speaker 1: That's I like that. Yeah, I like that a lot.

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Speaker 1: That's I did a couple albums that way, especially the

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Speaker 1: second moment of the Studge is called fun House, and

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Speaker 1: you know that's my favorite of the studges. That's what

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Speaker 1: I liked the best too. We had little we had

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Speaker 1: little baffles in the room, you know, the mini baffle,

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Speaker 1: like about as big as that screen you're on right now,

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Speaker 1: but nothing, nothing too much to separate. The engineer on

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Speaker 1: that was a young Englishman named Byron ross my Ring,

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Speaker 1: and I thought I'd never seen such a dashing young englishman.

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Speaker 1: If he didn't wear an ask out, he should have.

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Speaker 1: And he looked like ready for yachting, you know. And

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Speaker 1: apparently it was his second album and the first one

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Speaker 1: he'd done over here was Barbera Streisando and he went right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: right from that to us and he didn't bat an eye.

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Speaker 1: There was a producer hired to do it named Don Golucci,

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Speaker 1: who had played the organ on The Kingsman on Louis Louis,

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Speaker 1: and Don was worried about. Well, they tried separating us

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Speaker 1: the first day and we were we wanted to cry.

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Speaker 1: It didn't work, so Buyer said, don't worry, it will

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Speaker 1: set this something fighting. It was fine. He wasn't bothered.

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Speaker 1: Where was it recorded at that killer studio? It's the

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Speaker 1: Elector Studios that's right there on Lasienega Boulevard, two doors

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Speaker 1: from the down the hill from Santa Monica on the

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Speaker 1: east side of the street. It was a it's still

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Speaker 1: a studio, I think, but it was the Elector, Yes,

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Speaker 1: I believe, so Japanese architect that was designed, you know,

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Speaker 1: spirit or no Gucci, very minimal architecture with a nice

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Speaker 1: little Bonsai garden and just a nice place. One recording room,

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Speaker 1: you know, mid size. It's all you needed. Really. It

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Speaker 1: was done right there. We stayed at the Tropicana and

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Speaker 1: we would all walk to the corner together with the

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Speaker 1: guitars at the drop sticks and everything each day and

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Speaker 1: wait at the light by the liquor store there Laziannega

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Speaker 1: Lanes and then cross and walk down the hill about

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Speaker 1: forty steps to the to the studio and we each

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Speaker 1: each day we would do one song over and over

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Speaker 1: and over until we thought we that was the take,

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Speaker 1: that where everything went right. That's all we did it.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be

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Speaker 1: back with more from Rick Rubin and Aggy Pop. We're

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Speaker 1: back with more from Rick Rubin and Iggy Pop, who

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Speaker 1: are talking about the making of the Stooges nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: album fun House. How are those songs written? Most of

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Speaker 1: that album I wrote in my bedroom in Michigan for

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Speaker 1: them to play, for the band to play. I understood

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Speaker 1: the strengths of the Ashton brothers. They had a special

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Speaker 1: timing and especially the drummer. The drummer was Elvis Redux.

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Speaker 1: It was Elvis Presley in like every town probably had

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Speaker 1: and Elvis, and he was our Elvis. He was a

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Speaker 1: good looking, large kid and you just looked at him,

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Speaker 1: and you knew this guy had something, and he had

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Speaker 1: been a teenager he dropped out of school and I

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Speaker 1: was a local drummer and he kept bugging me to

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Speaker 1: teach him to play drums. So finally, when I wanted

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Speaker 1: to start a group, I did and he was very good,

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Speaker 1: very good. And Ron had these beautiful A lot of

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Speaker 1: guitar players that are good have these beautiful hands, they

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Speaker 1: have the fingers. He had lovely fingers, and he was

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Speaker 1: playing bass at the time, and he's sort of in

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Speaker 1: a walking style, and it was a very good bassist.

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Speaker 1: And at one point I tried to do guitar and

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Speaker 1: I didn't have the talent. I said, Ron, you're the guitarist.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm gonna front, And that's how we sort of

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Speaker 1: got the group together. It was a three of us,

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Speaker 1: and then their friend Dave came in later to play

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Speaker 1: bass and and he did a really good job with

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Speaker 1: very simple skills, and he was stayed out of the

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Speaker 1: way of what else was going on and held it

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Speaker 1: down well. So basically I would write up something and

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Speaker 1: then go down into our rehearsal room in the farmhouse

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Speaker 1: and pull teeth to get everybody together for a rehearsal

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Speaker 1: is sets banded life in those days, and we rehearse

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Speaker 1: it up and then we go out on the weekend

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Speaker 1: and play the new song in our sets until we

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Speaker 1: had a whole repertoire. And the big number that Ron

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Speaker 1: red the acet which I think is my favorite number

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Speaker 1: on the thing, is tv I too, And that was his. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the best one because he can actually play a guitar.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't. But Ron had a very slow event horizon

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00:21:45,876 --> 00:21:49,076
Speaker 1: in his life. He would play like on the first

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Speaker 1: record that he had, the one big one, I want

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Speaker 1: to be your dog riff. Wow, what a riff, you know?

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Speaker 1: And for this one he had, I just kept knocking

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Speaker 1: on his door in the band house until he said,

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Speaker 1: all right, all right, all write a song with you.

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Speaker 1: And he started playing tv I the way it sounds

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Speaker 1: about three minutes into the song where it's really he's

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Speaker 1: going very furious, and I thought about it. I said, Okay,

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Speaker 1: that's great, but look, if it's gonna develop work as

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Speaker 1: a song, play it like started out like Hooker, like

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Speaker 1: John Lee. Hooker started out single string with a droning string,

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Speaker 1: and that's he. He liked Hooker too, so we started

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Speaker 1: that way. Then I gave him the variation where instead

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Speaker 1: of da da da da da da da da da da,

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Speaker 1: where it's just dada dada that suffices as a chorus,

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Speaker 1: you know, for for the way we played something that's

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00:22:48,796 --> 00:22:51,956
Speaker 1: just a little a little wrinkle, yeah, you know. And

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Speaker 1: then Uh developed the part where it kind of melds

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Speaker 1: into the the just the drone. When did the lyrics

336
00:23:02,196 --> 00:23:07,356
Speaker 1: come there in Michigan in the farmhouse, It wasn't as

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00:23:07,396 --> 00:23:11,156
Speaker 1: hard as the first album. I remember that they just

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00:23:11,276 --> 00:23:15,436
Speaker 1: kind of came down on the street. Was originally down

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Speaker 1: on the Beach and yeah, I've always liked beach culture,

340
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Speaker 1: and I would singing about down on the beach and

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00:23:24,916 --> 00:23:29,636
Speaker 1: where the stars shine and how the open feeling at night.

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Speaker 1: And then I thought, well, look, I'm in this rock

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Speaker 1: culture now, maybe something more people can relate to. And

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Speaker 1: at some point we took a trip to New York

345
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Speaker 1: and I was pretty high one night and I was

346
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Speaker 1: hanging out on Eighth Street when it was very active

347
00:23:52,156 --> 00:23:58,396
Speaker 1: between like university place of sixth, and everybody was down

348
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Speaker 1: on the street and there were so many young faces

349
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Speaker 1: milling around that everybody seemed interesting. So I took it

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Speaker 1: from there you know, and it was sort of it

351
00:24:10,036 --> 00:24:11,956
Speaker 1: was sort of meant to be also a little bit

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00:24:11,996 --> 00:24:15,836
Speaker 1: about esthetics. I was just fascinated by everything in the

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Speaker 1: big city, you know, whether it was it might be

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00:24:19,156 --> 00:24:21,516
Speaker 1: an attractive girl or it might be just a really

355
00:24:21,556 --> 00:24:26,356
Speaker 1: interesting guy. But faces. It started from faces, you know.

356
00:24:26,436 --> 00:24:29,916
Speaker 1: So that one was that was like that TV I

357
00:24:30,316 --> 00:24:34,156
Speaker 1: I remember that came from We did a gig at

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Speaker 1: a junior high school in ann Arbor, Forsyth Junior High

359
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Speaker 1: and we were playing We weren't playing that number, we

360
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Speaker 1: didn't have it yet, but there was one of the

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Speaker 1: students at the junior high she was laying on her

362
00:24:50,796 --> 00:24:54,516
Speaker 1: back on in the what they call the multi purpose

363
00:24:54,636 --> 00:24:58,076
Speaker 1: room where you play you know, it's a gymnaisy, it's

364
00:24:58,076 --> 00:25:01,156
Speaker 1: a luge shrew, it's a dance all which she was

365
00:25:01,236 --> 00:25:05,596
Speaker 1: just laying there sort of taking it in on her

366
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Speaker 1: back with her arms folded behind her. And I thought,

367
00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:14,396
Speaker 1: but she's just taken this like like watching TV. And

368
00:25:14,476 --> 00:25:17,956
Speaker 1: I thought about that, and then I always liked the

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Speaker 1: CBS logo yeah at the time, the eye the Big Guy.

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Speaker 1: So I thought TV I, well, that's interesting, you know.

371
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Speaker 1: So that was that was where that came from. So cool.

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Speaker 1: I always loved the song and never had any idea

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Speaker 1: what it meant. Yeah, so it's it's cool and who

374
00:25:37,636 --> 00:25:40,756
Speaker 1: It takes on its own pretty simple, She's check it out.

375
00:25:40,876 --> 00:25:44,116
Speaker 1: But it still takes on its own mythical you know.

376
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Speaker 1: I've been hearing the song my pretty much my whole life,

377
00:25:46,516 --> 00:25:50,476
Speaker 1: so it takes on a mythical meaning beyond. But knowing

378
00:25:50,516 --> 00:25:53,556
Speaker 1: that it actually is rooted in reality is really interesting.

379
00:25:54,356 --> 00:25:56,876
Speaker 1: I tried to keep it away from the strict you know,

380
00:25:56,916 --> 00:26:01,436
Speaker 1: I did it go into the carnal details or implications.

381
00:26:01,516 --> 00:26:04,316
Speaker 1: I thought it was more fun to be just I

382
00:26:04,396 --> 00:26:08,676
Speaker 1: just like the TV I yeah, yeah, just the sound

383
00:26:08,716 --> 00:26:11,476
Speaker 1: of that. You know, it's funny. I think about it

384
00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:15,676
Speaker 1: a lot lately. Where Orwell In nineteen eighty four had

385
00:26:15,716 --> 00:26:20,636
Speaker 1: this idea that the televisions in England would all have

386
00:26:20,676 --> 00:26:22,916
Speaker 1: an eye that could spy on you. And now, of

387
00:26:22,956 --> 00:26:26,796
Speaker 1: course you know that could be done through your phone. Yeah,

388
00:26:27,076 --> 00:26:31,316
Speaker 1: I'm looking at one right now. I'm looking right, looking

389
00:26:31,316 --> 00:26:35,596
Speaker 1: at me, looking at you. That's how yeah right now, yep, yep.

390
00:26:36,276 --> 00:26:40,076
Speaker 1: When's the first time you ever saw that the ocean here?

391
00:26:40,516 --> 00:26:43,476
Speaker 1: It was when we came to make fun House and

392
00:26:44,556 --> 00:26:46,876
Speaker 1: we all went out. We stayed in the Tropic Cannas,

393
00:26:46,876 --> 00:26:48,956
Speaker 1: so you had to do is go straight out Santa

394
00:26:49,036 --> 00:26:52,516
Speaker 1: Monica Boulevard, which at the time was a real boulevard

395
00:26:52,516 --> 00:26:54,916
Speaker 1: with a grassy medium in the middle, and you'd see

396
00:26:54,916 --> 00:26:58,996
Speaker 1: horses sometimes there. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And we just

397
00:26:59,116 --> 00:27:01,436
Speaker 1: drove out and we went to the beach. Me and

398
00:27:01,476 --> 00:27:05,596
Speaker 1: the Sacks player Steve McKay maybe I think one of

399
00:27:05,636 --> 00:27:09,036
Speaker 1: the roadies, and we went to the beach right by

400
00:27:09,036 --> 00:27:13,316
Speaker 1: the Santa Monica Pier and I saw it and the

401
00:27:13,356 --> 00:27:16,036
Speaker 1: moon was up even though it was light, and I

402
00:27:16,076 --> 00:27:19,076
Speaker 1: remember I was not upset, but I was kind of

403
00:27:19,116 --> 00:27:23,796
Speaker 1: bummed because I felt that the moonwalk had ruined the moon.

404
00:27:24,516 --> 00:27:27,796
Speaker 1: You know, I liked the moon the way it was.

405
00:27:28,396 --> 00:27:31,916
Speaker 1: I didn't like the idea of God. Now there's some

406
00:27:32,036 --> 00:27:36,276
Speaker 1: guy up there, you know, playing golf. And I remembered that.

407
00:27:36,756 --> 00:27:39,836
Speaker 1: So it was nineteen seventy. That's pretty great. That's a

408
00:27:39,916 --> 00:27:42,556
Speaker 1: great take. I've never heard that take about the moon,

409
00:27:42,636 --> 00:27:45,156
Speaker 1: that the man going to the moon rounding. Yeah, yeah,

410
00:27:45,916 --> 00:27:49,036
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy. And the other big impression on me

411
00:27:49,676 --> 00:27:52,796
Speaker 1: that I used it in a lyric later on Raw Power.

412
00:27:53,876 --> 00:27:57,356
Speaker 1: It was I had never felt the ocean breeze on

413
00:27:57,436 --> 00:28:01,356
Speaker 1: a good day. It has a pitter patter to it.

414
00:28:01,356 --> 00:28:04,196
Speaker 1: It's not like a light wind that blows constantly. It

415
00:28:04,316 --> 00:28:10,156
Speaker 1: hits your face and it hits your body that you know.

416
00:28:10,156 --> 00:28:14,636
Speaker 1: I have this really on again, off again rhythm to it,

417
00:28:14,796 --> 00:28:19,516
Speaker 1: and man, dide, I like that, you know, So I

418
00:28:19,756 --> 00:28:23,036
Speaker 1: used that in and give me danger on the raw

419
00:28:23,196 --> 00:28:25,516
Speaker 1: power I was. It kissed me like the ocean breeze.

420
00:28:25,836 --> 00:28:30,436
Speaker 1: I loved the ocean breeze. It made a big impression. Now,

421
00:28:30,676 --> 00:28:34,956
Speaker 1: so I was twenty three. You know, some people are

422
00:28:35,036 --> 00:28:38,716
Speaker 1: raised right by the ocean, but once I saw it,

423
00:28:39,316 --> 00:28:41,796
Speaker 1: I've always gone way out of my way to be

424
00:28:41,956 --> 00:28:46,156
Speaker 1: near the ocean as much as I possibly can. It's

425
00:28:46,276 --> 00:28:49,276
Speaker 1: interesting that down on the Street started as down on

426
00:28:49,316 --> 00:28:51,316
Speaker 1: the Beach, and it sounds like at the time you

427
00:28:51,356 --> 00:28:55,676
Speaker 1: wrote it, you hadn't yet seen the ocean. Well, the

428
00:28:55,676 --> 00:29:00,036
Speaker 1: beach at that time was we have many, many, many

429
00:29:00,156 --> 00:29:04,556
Speaker 1: lakes in the Midwest. So the particular beach I was

430
00:29:04,596 --> 00:29:07,756
Speaker 1: talking about was a place called Silver Lake, and it

431
00:29:07,796 --> 00:29:10,396
Speaker 1: was a little lake where the we would all go

432
00:29:10,476 --> 00:29:14,276
Speaker 1: on the weekends or in the summer. You know, it's

433
00:29:14,396 --> 00:29:19,156
Speaker 1: like a bigger than a pond. You know, maybe maybe

434
00:29:19,196 --> 00:29:22,876
Speaker 1: a mile across, maybe not, you know, like that, and

435
00:29:23,076 --> 00:29:27,276
Speaker 1: you had this little kind of a dirt slope that

436
00:29:27,476 --> 00:29:30,996
Speaker 1: was that was a beach in a changing area, you know,

437
00:29:31,396 --> 00:29:34,476
Speaker 1: like a county park that was. That was the beach.

438
00:29:34,956 --> 00:29:39,956
Speaker 1: And I had been when I did my first full

439
00:29:40,036 --> 00:29:43,716
Speaker 1: professional gig. I was a drummer straight out of high

440
00:29:43,756 --> 00:29:46,156
Speaker 1: school and I was playing in my high school cover

441
00:29:46,276 --> 00:29:51,276
Speaker 1: band all summer in a beach area of Michigan on

442
00:29:52,436 --> 00:29:56,156
Speaker 1: Lake Michigan called Harbor Springs, and it had sand dunes

443
00:29:56,276 --> 00:29:59,156
Speaker 1: and everything. So we had that culture, but it's not

444
00:29:59,236 --> 00:30:02,316
Speaker 1: the same as the ocean. Yeah, how would you describe

445
00:30:02,676 --> 00:30:07,276
Speaker 1: your relationship to music? It gives me in my connection

446
00:30:07,476 --> 00:30:12,876
Speaker 1: to emotion, and I feel if I don't have that

447
00:30:13,036 --> 00:30:18,956
Speaker 1: connection to emotion, I don't feel for some reason interested

448
00:30:19,356 --> 00:30:23,596
Speaker 1: or that whatever I might be doing is worth doing it.

449
00:30:23,596 --> 00:30:26,396
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean I have to go around having emotion

450
00:30:26,476 --> 00:30:30,716
Speaker 1: every second of the day. That that doesn't work that way.

451
00:30:30,836 --> 00:30:35,076
Speaker 1: But it started out as I'm sure you've felt this,

452
00:30:35,556 --> 00:30:38,516
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you're I was on the school bus

453
00:30:39,076 --> 00:30:42,876
Speaker 1: listening to be My Baby by the Runouts, and you're

454
00:30:43,276 --> 00:30:46,716
Speaker 1: you have this wave of I don't know what that Is.

455
00:30:47,156 --> 00:30:52,396
Speaker 1: You know, it's like this adolescent yearning, that sort of thing.

456
00:30:52,396 --> 00:30:55,516
Speaker 1: But on the other hand, you also listen to Louie

457
00:30:55,596 --> 00:31:00,236
Speaker 1: Louis by the kigsvid you know, you want to have

458
00:31:00,396 --> 00:31:02,676
Speaker 1: a wild time a little bit, or some of you

459
00:31:02,756 --> 00:31:06,436
Speaker 1: get excited, you know, the different things. And I've always

460
00:31:06,516 --> 00:31:11,676
Speaker 1: been susceptible to it, right up through when I started

461
00:31:11,676 --> 00:31:16,836
Speaker 1: listening to things. My parents brought up Classical, one of

462
00:31:16,876 --> 00:31:20,716
Speaker 1: these ten great classics, you know, one of these albums,

463
00:31:20,756 --> 00:31:24,956
Speaker 1: and they had some revel on it. They had Bolo

464
00:31:25,356 --> 00:31:27,316
Speaker 1: the Ravel's Bowl there, and I loved it. I was

465
00:31:27,396 --> 00:31:32,076
Speaker 1: only twelve thirteen when I heard that and liked it,

466
00:31:32,716 --> 00:31:35,476
Speaker 1: maybe a little more than the records Elvis was making

467
00:31:35,556 --> 00:31:38,356
Speaker 1: at the time, because he wasn't doing his greatest stuff,

468
00:31:38,436 --> 00:31:41,436
Speaker 1: you know. It was more like a return to Sender

469
00:31:41,676 --> 00:31:44,836
Speaker 1: or something. He sounded great with the music. I liked it,

470
00:31:44,876 --> 00:31:48,236
Speaker 1: but it wasn't you know, it wasn't the greatest. Although

471
00:31:48,356 --> 00:31:52,916
Speaker 1: Return to Sender was funny because I always thought he

472
00:31:53,036 --> 00:31:56,476
Speaker 1: was singing return to Cinder, and I saw, my god,

473
00:31:56,516 --> 00:32:02,156
Speaker 1: he's singing about regeneration, of course. Yeah, and I did it, yeah,

474
00:32:02,196 --> 00:32:04,796
Speaker 1: you know, I was. I don't know, you hear funny

475
00:32:04,876 --> 00:32:10,036
Speaker 1: things when nobody tells you what's going on, but that's

476
00:32:10,036 --> 00:32:11,956
Speaker 1: pretty much it. It was that, and then at some

477
00:32:12,076 --> 00:32:17,236
Speaker 1: point I wanted to do things and if I could

478
00:32:17,396 --> 00:32:21,476
Speaker 1: sing like Dion Warwick, I would have tried to find

479
00:32:21,556 --> 00:32:25,876
Speaker 1: backreck and done music like that, which is so wonderful,

480
00:32:25,956 --> 00:32:30,356
Speaker 1: you know. But I didn't have that, and I remembered

481
00:32:30,436 --> 00:32:35,396
Speaker 1: listening to Gloria by them, and I thought I could

482
00:32:35,436 --> 00:32:38,956
Speaker 1: do that sort of thing, you know, So starting from

483
00:32:39,116 --> 00:32:42,996
Speaker 1: what can You Do? And then later for fun House,

484
00:32:43,036 --> 00:32:45,916
Speaker 1: it was that James Brown was a huge influence and

485
00:32:46,036 --> 00:32:49,596
Speaker 1: the bands he had at that time, the drums and bass,

486
00:32:49,796 --> 00:32:54,956
Speaker 1: the syncopations. I thought, well, I could be influenced. I

487
00:32:54,996 --> 00:33:00,276
Speaker 1: could do something that had my own particular flavor of that.

488
00:33:00,636 --> 00:33:02,756
Speaker 1: You know. It didn't have to sound like that. I'm

489
00:33:02,836 --> 00:33:05,996
Speaker 1: not going to try to do that, but that was

490
00:33:06,236 --> 00:33:11,276
Speaker 1: the idea behind it. It's interesting something recently where it

491
00:33:11,876 --> 00:33:17,116
Speaker 1: described the Stooges as the first rock band that didn't

492
00:33:17,156 --> 00:33:20,636
Speaker 1: have any of the influence of soul or R and B,

493
00:33:21,236 --> 00:33:23,516
Speaker 1: and I thought, wow, these people don't really listen to

494
00:33:23,596 --> 00:33:26,796
Speaker 1: music just in terms of the groove of it. It's

495
00:33:26,956 --> 00:33:32,556
Speaker 1: so exactly incredibly groovy and there's there's so much music

496
00:33:32,636 --> 00:33:36,476
Speaker 1: that's not you know, that's just cold. But that's not

497
00:33:37,996 --> 00:33:42,076
Speaker 1: Chad Scottie. I taught him Stax volt speeds. Yeah, did

498
00:33:42,116 --> 00:33:45,676
Speaker 1: you become boom? You know that sort of thing. And

499
00:33:46,796 --> 00:33:50,396
Speaker 1: a lot of the music I don't like is when

500
00:33:50,436 --> 00:33:54,876
Speaker 1: the artist goes into what I would call aping, you know,

501
00:33:55,156 --> 00:33:58,236
Speaker 1: aping something that's good. Well, we could do it almost

502
00:33:58,316 --> 00:34:03,276
Speaker 1: like that, but maybe for a different crowd, did you know.

503
00:34:03,956 --> 00:34:06,756
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear that. But when you try

504
00:34:06,796 --> 00:34:10,996
Speaker 1: to take the qualities the qualities and do that in

505
00:34:11,036 --> 00:34:14,436
Speaker 1: your own way, that's sort of the stuff I like more.

506
00:34:15,116 --> 00:34:20,356
Speaker 1: I have a funny question about the relationship between music

507
00:34:20,476 --> 00:34:23,476
Speaker 1: and time, and I'll tell you why I'm asking about

508
00:34:23,516 --> 00:34:27,436
Speaker 1: it is and I'm wondering, in my case if it

509
00:34:27,476 --> 00:34:29,436
Speaker 1: has to do with when I was born and what

510
00:34:29,596 --> 00:34:32,996
Speaker 1: I listened to. When I think of the Beatles, and

511
00:34:33,076 --> 00:34:35,596
Speaker 1: I think of the Beatles was a very long time ago,

512
00:34:37,116 --> 00:34:39,916
Speaker 1: and then I think of the Stooges, and I think

513
00:34:39,916 --> 00:34:42,636
Speaker 1: of the Stooges as much more modern. I don't think

514
00:34:42,676 --> 00:34:46,916
Speaker 1: of it from the Beatles era. Yet the Stooges existed

515
00:34:46,916 --> 00:34:51,276
Speaker 1: when the Beatles were the Beatles. The Stooges came into

516
00:34:52,316 --> 00:34:57,236
Speaker 1: some degree of popularity only very recently, and I think

517
00:34:57,276 --> 00:34:59,516
Speaker 1: that has a lot to do with it, because it's

518
00:34:59,556 --> 00:35:03,116
Speaker 1: the social cues that you cannot ignore that come from

519
00:35:03,116 --> 00:35:07,436
Speaker 1: the outside. The type what subthing is the Beatles right

520
00:35:07,556 --> 00:35:10,996
Speaker 1: off bang that stuff. Once they got out of Hamburg

521
00:35:11,116 --> 00:35:15,036
Speaker 1: and got the suits and started singing about love Bang,

522
00:35:15,316 --> 00:35:18,596
Speaker 1: that was popular. And so I think because of that

523
00:35:19,396 --> 00:35:24,036
Speaker 1: they have to carry a certain baggage. The students that

524
00:35:24,116 --> 00:35:28,716
Speaker 1: don't have that problem. It was so obscure and so small,

525
00:35:28,756 --> 00:35:31,916
Speaker 1: and we'd go places sometimes if we if we went

526
00:35:31,916 --> 00:35:35,396
Speaker 1: out of the Detroit area and maybe went across to Ohio,

527
00:35:35,836 --> 00:35:39,196
Speaker 1: we'd have twenty people. You know, that was it, you know,

528
00:35:39,756 --> 00:35:44,596
Speaker 1: so little by little the group became more popular later,

529
00:35:45,316 --> 00:35:48,676
Speaker 1: and I think for that reason, and as our listeners

530
00:35:49,156 --> 00:35:51,956
Speaker 1: are younger, although there are a lot of old people

531
00:35:52,076 --> 00:35:55,196
Speaker 1: who like it, you know. But I think that might

532
00:35:55,236 --> 00:35:57,556
Speaker 1: have something to do with it. Although I've been really

533
00:35:57,596 --> 00:36:02,436
Speaker 1: happy that the group gets included more and more in

534
00:36:03,276 --> 00:36:08,276
Speaker 1: discussion and portrayal of what's called classic rock, because it

535
00:36:08,396 --> 00:36:11,116
Speaker 1: is classic suck it away you know in a way.

536
00:36:11,156 --> 00:36:14,236
Speaker 1: But you know, so I would say it might have

537
00:36:14,316 --> 00:36:18,076
Speaker 1: something to do with that, and the music also was

538
00:36:18,956 --> 00:36:25,516
Speaker 1: cut clean, like a Corvette, like Ferrari, like no Gucci,

539
00:36:25,596 --> 00:36:31,436
Speaker 1: like Jean Prouvet, like clean cut lines done very very simply.

540
00:36:32,116 --> 00:36:36,356
Speaker 1: Maybe helps it age pretty well. The music hits hard

541
00:36:36,396 --> 00:36:39,516
Speaker 1: and it kind of it has its power, but it's

542
00:36:39,556 --> 00:36:44,236
Speaker 1: not it's not grabber music. It's not music that reaches

543
00:36:44,396 --> 00:36:48,196
Speaker 1: right out and take sure you know you know not

544
00:36:48,316 --> 00:36:51,716
Speaker 1: those not those first two. And part of a lot

545
00:36:51,756 --> 00:36:56,876
Speaker 1: of that was the personality of the brothers. They were

546
00:36:56,956 --> 00:37:03,316
Speaker 1: just drawn back individuals, both of them and Um did

547
00:37:03,316 --> 00:37:06,916
Speaker 1: not put themselves forward very easily, did not say a

548
00:37:06,956 --> 00:37:12,276
Speaker 1: lot very easily, just had something a slow groove. It

549
00:37:12,396 --> 00:37:17,476
Speaker 1: might have been because they lost their father at a keytone,

550
00:37:18,116 --> 00:37:20,916
Speaker 1: and I think it was traumatic for them. They were

551
00:37:22,596 --> 00:37:27,396
Speaker 1: in their young teens, and I remember Scott saying toward

552
00:37:27,436 --> 00:37:29,436
Speaker 1: the end of his life, so well, we just didn't

553
00:37:29,476 --> 00:37:35,516
Speaker 1: have the guidance. There was a comic named Jonathan Ross

554
00:37:35,676 --> 00:37:38,796
Speaker 1: who has a popular show in the UK, and we

555
00:37:38,916 --> 00:37:41,196
Speaker 1: played his show and then we sat for a talk

556
00:37:42,076 --> 00:37:45,836
Speaker 1: and he sort of asked the brothers. You know, I said, now,

557
00:37:46,236 --> 00:37:51,516
Speaker 1: if you hadn't been in the Stooges, what would you

558
00:37:51,596 --> 00:37:55,916
Speaker 1: have done with your life? And immediately didn't miss a beat.

559
00:37:56,756 --> 00:38:05,716
Speaker 1: Jet pilot race car driver like, yeah, bag right, I was.

560
00:38:06,236 --> 00:38:10,716
Speaker 1: I wanted to cheer at the boy. Yeah. Honestly, the

561
00:38:10,876 --> 00:38:15,196
Speaker 1: father had been a marine fighter pilot. Yeah, and I

562
00:38:15,236 --> 00:38:20,276
Speaker 1: think he had trouble adjusting to life after that experience.

563
00:38:20,316 --> 00:38:23,876
Speaker 1: After the war was over. He was a macho man,

564
00:38:24,156 --> 00:38:26,836
Speaker 1: you know, and he was he was teaching was to

565
00:38:26,876 --> 00:38:29,516
Speaker 1: be a jet pilot, the other way, to be a

566
00:38:29,596 --> 00:38:34,236
Speaker 1: race car driver a minute, so yeah, yeah, yeah, but

567
00:38:34,316 --> 00:38:36,636
Speaker 1: there was an abrupt stop to that and all of

568
00:38:36,676 --> 00:38:40,596
Speaker 1: a sudden, you know, I think it affected them in

569
00:38:40,716 --> 00:38:45,836
Speaker 1: a deep way. Would you say you were very different

570
00:38:45,876 --> 00:38:48,196
Speaker 1: than the other members of the band, or would you

571
00:38:48,236 --> 00:38:55,276
Speaker 1: say you were very different from everybody? Well, I'd say

572
00:38:55,276 --> 00:38:58,396
Speaker 1: the latter. I didn't realized that at the time. I

573
00:38:58,436 --> 00:39:01,316
Speaker 1: thought it was just different from them. But of all

574
00:39:01,396 --> 00:39:06,196
Speaker 1: the people with whom I wanted to communicate, they were

575
00:39:06,236 --> 00:39:10,516
Speaker 1: the most difficult to communicate with. It was. It was

576
00:39:10,556 --> 00:39:15,436
Speaker 1: a real challenge, and I did manage and we did

577
00:39:15,516 --> 00:39:19,676
Speaker 1: some great stuff together. But yeah, that's a good point.

578
00:39:19,836 --> 00:39:24,156
Speaker 1: I never thought about it that way. And I read

579
00:39:24,196 --> 00:39:27,756
Speaker 1: an interview years ago with one of our one of

580
00:39:27,756 --> 00:39:32,076
Speaker 1: our roadies. He was now I'm a very mature man

581
00:39:32,196 --> 00:39:37,996
Speaker 1: and works at Chrysler. And he just said, well, the

582
00:39:38,076 --> 00:39:41,356
Speaker 1: rest of the band they were just you know, they're

583
00:39:41,396 --> 00:39:45,876
Speaker 1: just regular guys from from down river. But you know,

584
00:39:46,756 --> 00:39:50,196
Speaker 1: he's not regular. So that was his point of view.

585
00:39:50,756 --> 00:39:54,436
Speaker 1: I listened to him, and I thought, oh, maybe, so

586
00:39:54,716 --> 00:39:57,436
Speaker 1: maybe I'm a little different, possible. I think I think

587
00:39:57,476 --> 00:40:00,476
Speaker 1: the difference is and it's not any uh, it's not

588
00:40:00,556 --> 00:40:03,196
Speaker 1: a good or bad. It just seems like you have

589
00:40:03,276 --> 00:40:07,236
Speaker 1: a more let's call it an artistic temperament and good

590
00:40:07,236 --> 00:40:10,036
Speaker 1: and bad comes along with that. And they had a

591
00:40:10,076 --> 00:40:16,516
Speaker 1: more workman like jet pilot, you know, mentality, And those

592
00:40:16,556 --> 00:40:19,956
Speaker 1: are just two very different ways. Even though they had

593
00:40:19,996 --> 00:40:23,236
Speaker 1: they had a lot of artistic talent, yes, you know,

594
00:40:23,436 --> 00:40:26,676
Speaker 1: but that's different. They could do stuff really well if

595
00:40:26,676 --> 00:40:31,476
Speaker 1: you gave them the right setting. Wow, yeah they could execute.

596
00:40:31,596 --> 00:40:35,436
Speaker 1: But yes, you had a different vision than they had.

597
00:40:35,596 --> 00:40:38,276
Speaker 1: And that's yes I did. And against better or worse,

598
00:40:38,316 --> 00:40:40,716
Speaker 1: it's just they're all kinds of people with different strengths

599
00:40:40,716 --> 00:40:44,036
Speaker 1: and weaknesses. And if they were like you, the students

600
00:40:44,076 --> 00:40:46,516
Speaker 1: wouldn't be like the Stuges. So the fact that it

601
00:40:46,676 --> 00:40:49,876
Speaker 1: is what it is is it was perfect. Well, you

602
00:40:49,956 --> 00:40:55,076
Speaker 1: know years later when the rom did some interviews when

603
00:40:55,116 --> 00:40:58,916
Speaker 1: we weren't together, before we reunited and then even after,

604
00:40:58,996 --> 00:41:02,036
Speaker 1: where he said, yeah, you know, we could have been

605
00:41:02,116 --> 00:41:07,276
Speaker 1: the American Stones, And what I would say to that was, no,

606
00:41:08,396 --> 00:41:14,796
Speaker 1: the American Stones are aerosmiths. And that's because the way

607
00:41:14,836 --> 00:41:16,836
Speaker 1: things are done in America. If you're going to be

608
00:41:16,876 --> 00:41:20,316
Speaker 1: the American Stones, you need a singer who can sing

609
00:41:20,396 --> 00:41:24,196
Speaker 1: rings around Mick Jagger. You need a guitar player who

610
00:41:24,236 --> 00:41:29,156
Speaker 1: can play more cleanly and incisively than Keith Richards. You

611
00:41:29,236 --> 00:41:33,276
Speaker 1: need a band that can do a range of music

612
00:41:33,676 --> 00:41:37,756
Speaker 1: that's palatable to a large group in a nation of

613
00:41:37,876 --> 00:41:42,636
Speaker 1: three hundred million. That's that's the nature of our of

614
00:41:42,676 --> 00:41:45,796
Speaker 1: the USA. And you know that wasn't what we were

615
00:41:45,796 --> 00:41:48,316
Speaker 1: ever going to be good at. But but that's how

616
00:41:48,356 --> 00:41:52,236
Speaker 1: they felt, you know, what Ron felt about it, not Scott.

617
00:41:52,396 --> 00:41:59,156
Speaker 1: Scott was a little more savvy than that. But that's

618
00:41:59,156 --> 00:42:01,276
Speaker 1: what I would say, Yeah, there was. I had a

619
00:42:01,316 --> 00:42:06,436
Speaker 1: particular once I got into it with them, and you know,

620
00:42:06,516 --> 00:42:09,596
Speaker 1: you look, you start out where you are. So there

621
00:42:09,596 --> 00:42:14,676
Speaker 1: we were in Detroit. Our contemporaries were Bob Seger, tedw

622
00:42:15,596 --> 00:42:19,756
Speaker 1: Detroit Wheels were more earlier than all of us, but

623
00:42:20,036 --> 00:42:23,916
Speaker 1: still there was an influence. There was the MC five,

624
00:42:24,116 --> 00:42:28,556
Speaker 1: of course, Scott Richard Case, various local bands, and then

625
00:42:29,156 --> 00:42:34,436
Speaker 1: later when they were exposed to our seeing Alice Cooper

626
00:42:35,196 --> 00:42:38,676
Speaker 1: moved from Phoenix in the Detroit So those that was

627
00:42:38,876 --> 00:42:43,796
Speaker 1: your competition and also your colleagues. So we kind of

628
00:42:43,956 --> 00:42:47,716
Speaker 1: worked from that and tried to find our own niche

629
00:42:48,116 --> 00:42:50,436
Speaker 1: that worked for us. And I was thinking about it

630
00:42:50,796 --> 00:42:53,636
Speaker 1: twenty four to seven, as you do when you're young.

631
00:42:54,076 --> 00:42:58,956
Speaker 1: But were you friends with all those guys? Yeah? Friendly, absolutely, yeah,

632
00:42:59,036 --> 00:43:02,356
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. Bob Seeger was the guy who really

633
00:43:03,036 --> 00:43:07,236
Speaker 1: boy that he put the nail in any chance of

634
00:43:07,316 --> 00:43:10,516
Speaker 1: my straight life when he came to my high school

635
00:43:11,116 --> 00:43:14,276
Speaker 1: and he had a band called the Decibels. At the time,

636
00:43:14,796 --> 00:43:17,556
Speaker 1: they were what people called a greaser band, and they'd

637
00:43:17,556 --> 00:43:21,196
Speaker 1: grease their hairback, wear batching suits and they played mostly

638
00:43:21,236 --> 00:43:25,276
Speaker 1: in instrumentals beautifully and I heard him in my high

639
00:43:25,276 --> 00:43:28,476
Speaker 1: school auditorium and then way had sounded coming out of

640
00:43:28,516 --> 00:43:33,636
Speaker 1: those amps and I was like, yo, just did something

641
00:43:33,756 --> 00:43:36,876
Speaker 1: to me, electrified me, you know, And they're playing like

642
00:43:37,076 --> 00:43:41,636
Speaker 1: ventures that sort of music and wow, you know. And

643
00:43:41,676 --> 00:43:44,556
Speaker 1: then later we'd play the same place as he did,

644
00:43:44,636 --> 00:43:47,956
Speaker 1: and I'd listened to his singles as he was trying

645
00:43:47,996 --> 00:43:51,276
Speaker 1: to develop a style, and I knew him and we

646
00:43:51,356 --> 00:43:54,476
Speaker 1: got along nice, and yeah, of course I got along

647
00:43:54,516 --> 00:43:58,036
Speaker 1: great with Alice Cooper and all the guys, Glenn Buxton

648
00:43:58,156 --> 00:44:01,396
Speaker 1: and all that whole bunch and the MC five were like,

649
00:44:02,756 --> 00:44:04,876
Speaker 1: we could go over to their house and eat a

650
00:44:04,916 --> 00:44:10,196
Speaker 1: peanut butter sandwich. Their girlfriends would sow my leather pants.

651
00:44:10,316 --> 00:44:14,916
Speaker 1: You know. Was very very collegial like that. Ted was

652
00:44:14,956 --> 00:44:18,996
Speaker 1: a little different, but at one point I remember talking

653
00:44:19,076 --> 00:44:23,396
Speaker 1: to him about he was curious about maybe having me

654
00:44:23,716 --> 00:44:27,316
Speaker 1: do vocals for him, and it wasn't going to be

655
00:44:27,356 --> 00:44:29,996
Speaker 1: the right fit for me. But it was a really

656
00:44:30,076 --> 00:44:34,316
Speaker 1: nice scene where you felt that you could get things

657
00:44:34,396 --> 00:44:38,316
Speaker 1: done and go out and play and enjoy life and

658
00:44:38,476 --> 00:44:43,076
Speaker 1: enjoy your music. Within the southern Michigan area, there was

659
00:44:43,116 --> 00:44:47,796
Speaker 1: also an interesting guy named Terry Knight, and he was

660
00:44:47,876 --> 00:44:51,316
Speaker 1: a DJ on CKLW in Detroit, and he had a

661
00:44:51,356 --> 00:44:55,156
Speaker 1: band called Terry Knight in the Pack and he would

662
00:44:55,196 --> 00:44:59,796
Speaker 1: imitate the look and the sound of the top English

663
00:44:59,796 --> 00:45:03,436
Speaker 1: bands at the time, and it was a crack band.

664
00:45:03,876 --> 00:45:09,116
Speaker 1: And that band was later what became Grand Funk Railroad

665
00:45:09,236 --> 00:45:11,716
Speaker 1: Terry when he did him make it said Okay, I'm

666
00:45:11,756 --> 00:45:15,996
Speaker 1: not the cigarette he wore, I'm the manager. Yeah, and

667
00:45:16,116 --> 00:45:18,676
Speaker 1: that was that was them. And they were a crack

668
00:45:18,916 --> 00:45:22,676
Speaker 1: three piece boy Wicked, Wicked, what are great? They were

669
00:45:22,716 --> 00:45:27,036
Speaker 1: great players, really really great, you know. And question Mark

670
00:45:27,476 --> 00:45:31,276
Speaker 1: that was a huge, yeah, huge influence when I when

671
00:45:31,276 --> 00:45:33,516
Speaker 1: I was yeah, I was still a drummer and I

672
00:45:33,556 --> 00:45:37,956
Speaker 1: went to play Saginaw where he's from. Saganaw. His people

673
00:45:38,076 --> 00:45:42,996
Speaker 1: picked the cherries. A lot of people from Mexican descent

674
00:45:43,516 --> 00:45:47,596
Speaker 1: came up and would picking cherries there in Saginaw Valley.

675
00:45:47,756 --> 00:45:51,636
Speaker 1: And these girls came to gag. They said, well that

676
00:45:51,756 --> 00:45:54,196
Speaker 1: was pretty good. But have you heard of question Mark?

677
00:45:54,276 --> 00:45:57,636
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, wow, And then I heard him.

678
00:45:57,676 --> 00:46:00,876
Speaker 1: It just boy blew me out. You know. He so

679
00:46:01,276 --> 00:46:05,036
Speaker 1: that particular number, but he also had other cool numbers

680
00:46:05,036 --> 00:46:08,316
Speaker 1: he added down by the railroad tracks and a lot

681
00:46:08,316 --> 00:46:11,996
Speaker 1: of good numbers. We're going to pause for another quick break,

682
00:46:12,036 --> 00:46:13,596
Speaker 1: and then we'll be back with the rest of Rick

683
00:46:13,636 --> 00:46:21,036
Speaker 1: Rubin's conversation with Iggy Pop. We're back with Rick Rubin

684
00:46:21,276 --> 00:46:23,916
Speaker 1: and Iggy Pop. Why do you think there was so

685
00:46:23,996 --> 00:46:26,516
Speaker 1: much good music going on in Detroit at that time.

686
00:46:26,556 --> 00:46:29,716
Speaker 1: Like everyone you mentioned, you talk about your group of contemporaries,

687
00:46:30,236 --> 00:46:32,756
Speaker 1: use to the local artists at the time, and every

688
00:46:32,836 --> 00:46:34,356
Speaker 1: one of them, whether you like them all or not,

689
00:46:34,436 --> 00:46:38,076
Speaker 1: doesn't matter. Every one of them is great. There was

690
00:46:38,116 --> 00:46:42,796
Speaker 1: a positive energy because it was the heyday of the

691
00:46:42,956 --> 00:46:48,756
Speaker 1: Detroit muscle car culture. They were making beautiful cars that

692
00:46:48,796 --> 00:46:53,276
Speaker 1: were exciting and fun and looked great and sounded great

693
00:46:53,356 --> 00:46:55,916
Speaker 1: and were great to drive, and in a wide range.

694
00:46:56,076 --> 00:46:59,156
Speaker 1: There was a lot of work for everybody. There was

695
00:46:59,556 --> 00:47:04,436
Speaker 1: some urbanism but also a lot of open space. And

696
00:47:05,196 --> 00:47:10,676
Speaker 1: there was a very, very large migration from the mid

697
00:47:10,756 --> 00:47:15,356
Speaker 1: South Tennessee and Kentucky to the Detroit area during the

698
00:47:15,396 --> 00:47:19,596
Speaker 1: Second World War to bolster the auto plants for the

699
00:47:19,636 --> 00:47:23,236
Speaker 1: war effort. And it never really ended. It just kept

700
00:47:23,276 --> 00:47:26,196
Speaker 1: on right up through the sixties. I grew up my

701
00:47:26,356 --> 00:47:29,476
Speaker 1: trailer camp. Where I grew up was on the side

702
00:47:29,516 --> 00:47:32,236
Speaker 1: of that road. It was a two lane blacktop YS

703
00:47:32,316 --> 00:47:36,716
Speaker 1: twenty three, also known as the Hillbilly Highway, and went

704
00:47:36,756 --> 00:47:40,796
Speaker 1: from Tennessee right up to Detroit, and there was a

705
00:47:40,956 --> 00:47:45,356
Speaker 1: natural hands on power without There were similar things going

706
00:47:45,396 --> 00:47:52,556
Speaker 1: on out here with the Oki culture transported to southern California,

707
00:47:52,836 --> 00:47:56,516
Speaker 1: especially Orange County, you know, so you had people who

708
00:47:56,836 --> 00:48:00,636
Speaker 1: you didn't have to have. You didn't really have to

709
00:48:00,676 --> 00:48:04,076
Speaker 1: graduate high school to get a good job somewhere and

710
00:48:04,196 --> 00:48:07,356
Speaker 1: have a good time, and then your kids might start

711
00:48:07,396 --> 00:48:12,316
Speaker 1: playing guitar in the garage and would have an optimism

712
00:48:12,356 --> 00:48:15,756
Speaker 1: that would allow them to go do things. That's what

713
00:48:15,796 --> 00:48:18,636
Speaker 1: I would say, and that that existed there in Michigan.

714
00:48:19,476 --> 00:48:24,716
Speaker 1: In Chicago or New York, those were bigger cities, so

715
00:48:25,116 --> 00:48:29,436
Speaker 1: the groups had to be more realistic about everything, had

716
00:48:29,476 --> 00:48:32,716
Speaker 1: to be very professional, and it was harder to get

717
00:48:32,756 --> 00:48:35,756
Speaker 1: everything together for your rehearsal. It's that sort of thing,

718
00:48:36,036 --> 00:48:40,516
Speaker 1: but not quite so in the Midwest. But you can't

719
00:48:40,596 --> 00:48:44,796
Speaker 1: list ten great artists that came out of New York

720
00:48:44,836 --> 00:48:48,436
Speaker 1: at that time, musical artists, it doesn't exist. No, no,

721
00:48:48,636 --> 00:48:52,036
Speaker 1: you can't because it was too just too tight. Everything

722
00:48:52,156 --> 00:48:56,316
Speaker 1: was too tight. And until the synthetic music came along,

723
00:48:56,796 --> 00:48:59,836
Speaker 1: disco worked for New York people because they had a

724
00:48:59,996 --> 00:49:05,156
Speaker 1: more Latin and Afro American energy to it, but it

725
00:49:05,196 --> 00:49:09,196
Speaker 1: was harder. I mean the Young Rascals that was a

726
00:49:09,356 --> 00:49:13,716
Speaker 1: very great barband, you know, killer barband that and then

727
00:49:14,156 --> 00:49:17,236
Speaker 1: they get professional writers and work with them and make

728
00:49:17,276 --> 00:49:22,476
Speaker 1: a great record, but it's different. The big City's great.

729
00:49:22,596 --> 00:49:27,116
Speaker 1: In another way, I think it worked for duopop from him,

730
00:49:27,356 --> 00:49:30,436
Speaker 1: of course, because because you could just get together on

731
00:49:30,476 --> 00:49:32,796
Speaker 1: the street corner. And then there was all the music

732
00:49:32,876 --> 00:49:35,396
Speaker 1: that came out of the playgrounds later of the Bronx

733
00:49:35,476 --> 00:49:39,276
Speaker 1: and you know Brooklyn and all that, because you could

734
00:49:39,316 --> 00:49:45,076
Speaker 1: steal some electricity and suddenly there were boomboxes and things change.

735
00:49:45,596 --> 00:49:51,436
Speaker 1: Did you know Johnson Claire? I knew John. Tell me

736
00:49:51,516 --> 00:49:56,996
Speaker 1: everything about okay. John sycclair was a guy. He learned

737
00:49:57,036 --> 00:50:00,036
Speaker 1: his music really in the joint. He'd done it. He'd

738
00:50:00,076 --> 00:50:02,316
Speaker 1: done something. I don't know what he did. He spent

739
00:50:02,356 --> 00:50:05,276
Speaker 1: a year or two in the joint, and he there

740
00:50:05,396 --> 00:50:09,276
Speaker 1: he learned about all the great Atlantic records and all

741
00:50:09,276 --> 00:50:13,116
Speaker 1: the great jazz records. And he was a kind of

742
00:50:13,156 --> 00:50:18,796
Speaker 1: a kind of a Henry the Eighth character. He had.

743
00:50:19,076 --> 00:50:24,036
Speaker 1: He was a very large man, like a large knockkneed

744
00:50:24,276 --> 00:50:28,996
Speaker 1: man with a large girth, knock knees, and wild hairdo

745
00:50:29,596 --> 00:50:36,396
Speaker 1: and was very interested in promoting free love, free everything,

746
00:50:36,676 --> 00:50:41,076
Speaker 1: free food, free music. We don't need songs, we don't

747
00:50:41,116 --> 00:50:43,396
Speaker 1: need money, we don't need this and this and that.

748
00:50:43,556 --> 00:50:48,956
Speaker 1: And he started several communes in the Detroit area. One

749
00:50:49,036 --> 00:50:53,876
Speaker 1: was called trans Love Energies, another was the God I

750
00:50:53,956 --> 00:50:56,276
Speaker 1: can't remember what he called the MC five. He had

751
00:50:56,316 --> 00:51:01,276
Speaker 1: a musical commune two which centered around the MC five

752
00:51:02,036 --> 00:51:07,156
Speaker 1: and then finally culminated in something called the White Panther Party.

753
00:51:07,716 --> 00:51:10,396
Speaker 1: And they were going to be you know. He also

754
00:51:10,476 --> 00:51:13,596
Speaker 1: had a cider. He liked to be tough, and so

755
00:51:13,636 --> 00:51:18,316
Speaker 1: they there are MC five roadies were all big and tough,

756
00:51:18,436 --> 00:51:22,316
Speaker 1: and I remember Fred Smith told the story once that

757
00:51:23,556 --> 00:51:28,476
Speaker 1: early in their gestation, to prove your place in the band,

758
00:51:28,516 --> 00:51:32,796
Speaker 1: to make sure everybody was a worthy band member, they

759
00:51:32,836 --> 00:51:38,636
Speaker 1: all had to fight each other, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah,

760
00:51:38,956 --> 00:51:42,676
Speaker 1: to make sure, okay, there's no whips of this bad right.

761
00:51:42,716 --> 00:51:45,836
Speaker 1: So so they were they were really interesting on that

762
00:51:46,076 --> 00:51:48,796
Speaker 1: like that, and John would egg them on in a

763
00:51:48,836 --> 00:51:53,316
Speaker 1: certain direction. And he was also doing poetry. And he

764
00:51:53,436 --> 00:51:56,076
Speaker 1: liked to get up with the band about halfway through

765
00:51:56,116 --> 00:51:59,716
Speaker 1: their live sets when he and play alto sacks and

766
00:51:59,796 --> 00:52:02,356
Speaker 1: he didn't play any melodies or any Yeah, he'd get

767
00:52:02,396 --> 00:52:06,996
Speaker 1: up and really liked to show. But his big the

768
00:52:07,116 --> 00:52:11,516
Speaker 1: big thing that blew my mind about John was that

769
00:52:12,116 --> 00:52:15,156
Speaker 1: at one point they no longer could stay in Detroit

770
00:52:15,196 --> 00:52:18,716
Speaker 1: because the police were coming around trying to bust them

771
00:52:18,716 --> 00:52:21,956
Speaker 1: for marijuana at that time, trying to bust them for

772
00:52:22,116 --> 00:52:25,236
Speaker 1: LSD parties. So they moved to ann Arbor, which a

773
00:52:25,236 --> 00:52:29,076
Speaker 1: little college town, and this is nineteen sixty nine, and

774
00:52:29,436 --> 00:52:34,276
Speaker 1: they rented an old fraternity house type of house, right,

775
00:52:34,956 --> 00:52:37,596
Speaker 1: one of these big old Victorian houses that are on

776
00:52:37,676 --> 00:52:41,596
Speaker 1: every college campus with like twelve bedrooms, run down and

777
00:52:41,756 --> 00:52:45,076
Speaker 1: somebody wants to rent it. And they lived there, and

778
00:52:45,116 --> 00:52:48,596
Speaker 1: they called at the White Panther their headquarters, and they

779
00:52:48,716 --> 00:52:54,236
Speaker 1: printed a postcard, you know, a regular cardboard postcard like

780
00:52:54,476 --> 00:52:57,236
Speaker 1: people used at the time to send notes in the mail.

781
00:52:57,836 --> 00:53:00,316
Speaker 1: And one side of the postcard was purple with a

782
00:53:00,316 --> 00:53:04,676
Speaker 1: white springing panther and on the reverse side it said

783
00:53:05,636 --> 00:53:12,956
Speaker 1: White Panther Party, our program rock and roll, dope fucking

784
00:53:13,036 --> 00:53:19,316
Speaker 1: in the streets. And you know that, boy, you know,

785
00:53:19,716 --> 00:53:22,676
Speaker 1: holy shit. I mean when they we had a police department,

786
00:53:22,716 --> 00:53:26,596
Speaker 1: and you know that attracted their attention right away, you know,

787
00:53:27,076 --> 00:53:30,516
Speaker 1: So he would push the envelope. He was a provocateur

788
00:53:30,676 --> 00:53:34,276
Speaker 1: jon and had a sense of humor about everything and

789
00:53:34,356 --> 00:53:38,356
Speaker 1: liked to like to smoke dope and make love with

790
00:53:38,516 --> 00:53:42,876
Speaker 1: his He had a wonderful partner, a girl from Germany

791
00:53:43,116 --> 00:53:47,836
Speaker 1: who was a very dogmatically artistic person named Lenny Sinclair

792
00:53:48,476 --> 00:53:51,476
Speaker 1: and is as huge as he was. She was tiny

793
00:53:51,516 --> 00:53:56,076
Speaker 1: and slim, but Lenny was a good photographer and also

794
00:53:56,156 --> 00:54:00,476
Speaker 1: took super eight footage and really good photos of everything

795
00:54:00,556 --> 00:54:04,636
Speaker 1: happening at the time, and her stuff is the real

796
00:54:04,716 --> 00:54:08,236
Speaker 1: best document of Michigan rock at that time. And she's

797
00:54:08,236 --> 00:54:12,596
Speaker 1: still she's still living there in Detroit. John at one point,

798
00:54:12,636 --> 00:54:15,476
Speaker 1: I think he was in Amsterdam for quite some time

799
00:54:15,516 --> 00:54:17,836
Speaker 1: and I'm not sure where he is now. He was

800
00:54:17,916 --> 00:54:23,196
Speaker 1: doing poetry. He's just a very h He's one of

801
00:54:23,236 --> 00:54:26,716
Speaker 1: the most righteous people I've ever met, without making a

802
00:54:26,756 --> 00:54:29,836
Speaker 1: big deal about it, but he's kind of shocked me

803
00:54:30,076 --> 00:54:34,316
Speaker 1: at certain times. And there was a one time when

804
00:54:34,356 --> 00:54:37,796
Speaker 1: the MC five We're going to go to Chicago to

805
00:54:38,036 --> 00:54:44,356
Speaker 1: play during the big showdown at the convention I think

806
00:54:45,316 --> 00:54:49,356
Speaker 1: was the Republican or Democratic convention in Chicago that resulted

807
00:54:49,396 --> 00:54:52,956
Speaker 1: in the police beatings, and they went to play in

808
00:54:52,996 --> 00:54:56,796
Speaker 1: the park and he wanted the stooges to come and

809
00:54:56,916 --> 00:54:58,956
Speaker 1: do it, and I said, no, I'm not that's not

810
00:54:59,436 --> 00:55:02,516
Speaker 1: that's something I'm not doing that He said, well, you're

811
00:55:02,516 --> 00:55:04,836
Speaker 1: with us or you're not, you know sort of thing.

812
00:55:04,876 --> 00:55:07,756
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I'm not going to say I'm not,

813
00:55:07,916 --> 00:55:11,836
Speaker 1: but I'm not going. So there was a little difference there.

814
00:55:12,556 --> 00:55:15,796
Speaker 1: But he's a good man, but there seems to be

815
00:55:15,916 --> 00:55:21,396
Speaker 1: certain unbending things there. And he was a force in

816
00:55:21,516 --> 00:55:25,156
Speaker 1: Michigan rock. There was him, and then on the other hand,

817
00:55:25,236 --> 00:55:30,676
Speaker 1: there was just an eccentric school teacher named Russ Gibb

818
00:55:31,276 --> 00:55:34,396
Speaker 1: who just liked kids and liked music, and he was

819
00:55:34,436 --> 00:55:37,836
Speaker 1: the one who put together the Psychedelic Ballroom and did

820
00:55:37,876 --> 00:55:40,556
Speaker 1: things like, you know, the kind of guy mortgages his

821
00:55:40,676 --> 00:55:44,236
Speaker 1: house to run the club, that kind of thing, and

822
00:55:44,396 --> 00:55:47,436
Speaker 1: made a lot of things happen for people. And then

823
00:55:47,476 --> 00:55:51,356
Speaker 1: there was a third force who's still a big manager

824
00:55:51,596 --> 00:55:53,836
Speaker 1: to this day of Michigan people. That was a guy

825
00:55:53,916 --> 00:55:58,796
Speaker 1: named Punch Andrews who had a Punch Kid rock for

826
00:55:58,836 --> 00:56:01,476
Speaker 1: a while. Maybe still does, I don't know, and he

827
00:56:01,556 --> 00:56:05,676
Speaker 1: did he still does, Bob Seeger, I believe, and Punch

828
00:56:05,836 --> 00:56:10,916
Speaker 1: just was a very sensible guy who had a string

829
00:56:11,476 --> 00:56:15,876
Speaker 1: of clubs called the Hideouts in nicer neighborhoods where the

830
00:56:15,956 --> 00:56:19,596
Speaker 1: kids could have money, you know, and those are nice

831
00:56:19,636 --> 00:56:23,476
Speaker 1: places to play. We played there, and we were we

832
00:56:23,476 --> 00:56:26,436
Speaker 1: were proud to be able to get up to where

833
00:56:26,436 --> 00:56:29,476
Speaker 1: you could play one of Punch's clubs. It was Johnson

834
00:56:29,556 --> 00:56:32,156
Speaker 1: Claire older than you guys are same age, Yeah, a

835
00:56:32,156 --> 00:56:36,276
Speaker 1: little older, like two years, three years. I'm not sure

836
00:56:36,356 --> 00:56:40,036
Speaker 1: I would say maybe more. I'm just guessing maybe five

837
00:56:40,156 --> 00:56:44,036
Speaker 1: six years. Maybe just that edge that next you know

838
00:56:44,036 --> 00:56:46,716
Speaker 1: when you're when you're very young, or I would say

839
00:56:46,756 --> 00:56:50,516
Speaker 1: in music in general, five years or a generation. So

840
00:56:50,636 --> 00:56:53,396
Speaker 1: maybe like felt like that, I felt like five and

841
00:56:53,476 --> 00:56:55,876
Speaker 1: did He'm not sure did he put the MC five

842
00:56:55,956 --> 00:56:59,076
Speaker 1: together or were they already a group when they were

843
00:56:59,436 --> 00:57:03,636
Speaker 1: listen they were guts interesting, they were good cover band.

844
00:57:04,196 --> 00:57:07,596
Speaker 1: They were really effing good cover band. And I saw

845
00:57:07,636 --> 00:57:12,796
Speaker 1: them at the ann Arbor Armory covering stones and pretty

846
00:57:12,916 --> 00:57:18,476
Speaker 1: things and motown songs and they were just already very,

847
00:57:18,556 --> 00:57:22,396
Speaker 1: very good. And Wayne Kramer tells me, I don't remember

848
00:57:22,676 --> 00:57:27,316
Speaker 1: no recollection on this, but apparently they asked me to

849
00:57:27,476 --> 00:57:30,236
Speaker 1: drum for them at one point and I didn't. I

850
00:57:30,276 --> 00:57:33,596
Speaker 1: said no, I'm going to try to do my own thing.

851
00:57:33,756 --> 00:57:36,436
Speaker 1: But I don't remember that. But yeah, no, they were

852
00:57:36,476 --> 00:57:39,956
Speaker 1: good covering. They were writing and it was a much

853
00:57:40,036 --> 00:57:43,316
Speaker 1: different thing. But They were already tight and good in

854
00:57:43,756 --> 00:57:47,556
Speaker 1: a similar way to the members in Grand Funk Railroad,

855
00:57:48,076 --> 00:57:52,316
Speaker 1: Mark Farner and those guys Great Drummer and Grand Funk.

856
00:57:52,676 --> 00:57:57,276
Speaker 1: It's very very good. Also were a good cover type

857
00:57:57,276 --> 00:58:00,516
Speaker 1: band originally. And then how did they switch into being

858
00:58:00,516 --> 00:58:03,916
Speaker 1: the MC five we know. I think that had a

859
00:58:03,916 --> 00:58:06,996
Speaker 1: lot to do with John Wow. I think it was

860
00:58:07,356 --> 00:58:10,836
Speaker 1: John in coming in in the way. I don't know

861
00:58:10,876 --> 00:58:15,116
Speaker 1: that you hear stories anyway about Andrew Oldham, who I

862
00:58:15,196 --> 00:58:20,036
Speaker 1: met years ago, sort of telling the Rolling Stones you

863
00:58:20,076 --> 00:58:25,356
Speaker 1: need to write songs, you know, add listen, the Beatles

864
00:58:25,356 --> 00:58:28,236
Speaker 1: are the good guys. You're going to be the bad guys,

865
00:58:28,836 --> 00:58:32,956
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, you know so I think there

866
00:58:33,036 --> 00:58:35,516
Speaker 1: was a little bit of that, you know. And then

867
00:58:35,556 --> 00:58:40,276
Speaker 1: the songwriting their point a departure of writing a song,

868
00:58:41,036 --> 00:58:45,316
Speaker 1: it was a little more dogmatic and it had to

869
00:58:45,476 --> 00:58:49,596
Speaker 1: generally be something that was acceptable to the whole group.

870
00:58:50,596 --> 00:58:54,836
Speaker 1: You know. That's tough to pull off in songwriting, you know,

871
00:58:55,436 --> 00:58:57,636
Speaker 1: And they did it a couple of times to kick

872
00:58:57,676 --> 00:59:00,836
Speaker 1: out the jams is you know, and that's there's a

873
00:59:00,916 --> 00:59:03,756
Speaker 1: dogma to that. Okay, this is what I'm doing, this

874
00:59:03,836 --> 00:59:06,636
Speaker 1: is what it means. Let me do it, get out

875
00:59:06,636 --> 00:59:09,396
Speaker 1: of the way and everything, and the guys, know, the

876
00:59:09,516 --> 00:59:12,236
Speaker 1: guys are all having fun, that sort of thing, you know,

877
00:59:12,516 --> 00:59:16,636
Speaker 1: you know in the dressing room, getting hazy and etc. Etc.

878
00:59:17,916 --> 00:59:21,836
Speaker 1: That was their particular way, and then they carried it. Eventually.

879
00:59:21,876 --> 00:59:25,116
Speaker 1: They had some songs like a Human Being lawn Mower

880
00:59:25,796 --> 00:59:30,156
Speaker 1: was sort of a social critique type of a rock song,

881
00:59:30,236 --> 00:59:33,636
Speaker 1: you know, so they went more over there. I would

882
00:59:33,676 --> 00:59:39,356
Speaker 1: say American Ruse was one of their songs. You know, hey, hey, hey,

883
00:59:39,516 --> 00:59:42,036
Speaker 1: take a look around. You know, I finally caught out

884
00:59:42,116 --> 00:59:45,636
Speaker 1: of the American ruse. You know, you want to have fun,

885
00:59:45,676 --> 00:59:48,756
Speaker 1: they won't let you that sort of thing. We're gonna

886
00:59:48,756 --> 00:59:51,236
Speaker 1: pause in a Rick's conversation with Iggy right here and

887
00:59:51,316 --> 00:59:54,036
Speaker 1: pick back up next week, where Iggy will talk about

888
00:59:54,076 --> 00:59:58,076
Speaker 1: the artist who inspired his frontman style, working with David Bowie,

889
00:59:58,356 --> 01:00:01,756
Speaker 1: and the first time he ever bled on stage. But

890
01:00:01,796 --> 01:00:03,876
Speaker 1: before we jump to the credits, let's hear a song

891
01:00:03,956 --> 01:00:07,476
Speaker 1: from Iggy's new album Every Loser. Here's the song, strung

892
01:00:07,476 --> 01:00:37,796
Speaker 1: Out Johnny and see open Overkid, Come on out. It's

893
01:00:37,996 --> 01:00:44,716
Speaker 1: help the Loveday comes composer. It's wis a little too

894
01:00:44,876 --> 01:00:51,756
Speaker 1: saying no God Man me your jung keeping. But Setan

895
01:00:52,316 --> 01:01:00,076
Speaker 1: told me so you're strong out Johnny and you can't

896
01:01:00,116 --> 01:01:08,236
Speaker 1: get away. You're strong out Johnny, and now it's time

897
01:01:08,316 --> 01:01:19,276
Speaker 1: to pay the first time to do se down. First

898
01:01:19,436 --> 01:01:28,556
Speaker 1: time it came again like that. I'll don't all from dumb.

899
01:01:40,396 --> 01:01:58,396
Speaker 1: You'll start up, john You'll start up joy rolling, said

900
01:01:58,596 --> 01:02:06,436
Speaker 1: to Donning Sell bad Boys spooming, don't feel like a

901
01:02:06,676 --> 01:02:12,956
Speaker 1: hero will be forgotten soon. I'm strong out on me

902
01:02:16,276 --> 01:02:24,476
Speaker 1: and I can't get away. I'm strong outarmy and now

903
01:02:24,996 --> 01:02:37,156
Speaker 1: it's time to pay. It's time to second time, time

904
01:02:41,556 --> 01:02:59,436
Speaker 1: out all fun. You're strong Johnny. You're trying out Johnny

905
01:03:02,716 --> 01:03:11,196
Speaker 1: and you can't get It's trying out Jo and now

906
01:03:11,236 --> 01:03:20,436
Speaker 1: it's time to day. It's try Jolene. Nobody loves your soul.

907
01:03:21,116 --> 01:03:36,436
Speaker 1: You ry Choline, that's no yours on strong mind. I'm

908
01:03:36,676 --> 01:04:22,556
Speaker 1: strong mind you joy about Jolin. That was strung out

909
01:04:22,676 --> 01:04:26,076
Speaker 1: Johnny from Iggy Pop's new album Every Loser. You can

910
01:04:26,116 --> 01:04:27,796
Speaker 1: hear the rest of the tracks from his new album

911
01:04:27,956 --> 01:04:30,836
Speaker 1: and other songs we love on a playlist at Broken

912
01:04:30,876 --> 01:04:34,636
Speaker 1: record podcast dot com. You can subscribe to our YouTube

913
01:04:34,716 --> 01:04:37,916
Speaker 1: channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast, where

914
01:04:37,916 --> 01:04:40,676
Speaker 1: we can find all of our new episodes. You can

915
01:04:40,756 --> 01:04:44,276
Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is

916
01:04:44,316 --> 01:04:48,076
Speaker 1: produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ben Holiday,

917
01:04:48,516 --> 01:04:53,396
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez. Our editor Sophie Crane. Our executive

918
01:04:53,396 --> 01:04:57,276
Speaker 1: producer is Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of

919
01:04:57,436 --> 01:05:01,116
Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin,

920
01:05:01,236 --> 01:05:05,476
Speaker 1: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast

921
01:05:05,476 --> 01:05:09,476
Speaker 1: subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad pre listening

922
01:05:09,756 --> 01:05:12,396
Speaker 1: for four ninety nine a month. Look for push com

923
01:05:12,436 --> 01:05:16,356
Speaker 1: Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you like our show,

924
01:05:16,596 --> 01:05:18,996
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your

925
01:05:19,036 --> 01:05:22,996
Speaker 1: podcast staff. Our theme musics by Henny beats On Justin

926
01:05:23,196 --> 01:05:23,516
Speaker 1: Richmond