1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hi. This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: an author, journalist, and speaker. And this is Sarah Hartunger. 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm a mother of three, a practicing physician and blogger. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 1: On the side, we are two working parents who love 5 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: our careers and our families. Welcome to best of both worlds. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 1: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 7 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: out long term career goals. We want you to get 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: the most out of life. Welcome to best of both worlds. 10 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: This is Laura. This is episode two hundred and seven. 11 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 1: We will be talking about the idea of compare and despair. 12 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:44,840 Speaker 1: I know we have a love hate relationship with social media. 13 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: We love connecting with so many of our listeners through 14 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: social media. Without the Internet, what would we even be, right. 15 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: Sarah and I got to know each other through our blogs. 16 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: Wonderful way of connecting with human beings, but also brings 17 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: its own challenges as we see certain aspects of our 18 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: fellow human beings lives and perhaps not other aspects of 19 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: their lives. So Sarah wrote a blog post a few 20 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: weeks ago about trade offs and sort of what I 21 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: took from because it got at this whole compare and 22 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 1: despair idea with social media, but be pointing out that 23 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: even with two high incomes, people still have to make 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: some sort of trade off. So maybe you can just 25 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 1: talk our listeners who maybe don't read your blog a 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 1: little bit through what you were talking about. Of course, 27 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: and there wasn't really a lot of despair in that post. 28 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: I think sometimes I don't know. First of all, I 29 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,679 Speaker 1: will say a disclaimer and say, you know, like most 30 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: of my posts, I wrote it in about I don't know, 31 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: twenty minutes, like it was very much four I am 32 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: to write, Yes, that is how I blog. It's I 33 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: don't see that changing anytime soon. I think it does 34 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: lend a very realness, but it doesn't mean that I've 35 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: sat there and reviewed five drafts of it to make 36 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: sure I've you know, conveyed the exact meaning I wanted to, 37 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: because there wasn't a lot. I guess there was sort 38 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: of a tone of despair in that post because I 39 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 1: was also complaining about some parenting challenges I've been having, 40 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: because I don't even think I had that much direction 41 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: for the posts as I wrote it, but it was Okay, 42 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: how do I put this? To me? It was more 43 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: of like a discovery, and maybe I had been living 44 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: for a while with a myth that if you have 45 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: too well paying jobs and two physician jobs, which when 46 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: I think of my childhood and growing up, to me, 47 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: that seems really high earning. And you know, above what 48 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: I was used to, even though I had a very 49 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: comfortable upbringing, that you could have whatever you wanted, and 50 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 1: that you could have a fancy house and it would 51 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: be normal to have a fancy house and a fancy 52 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: car and full time childcare and all the vacations. And 53 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: I certainly look around at some of the people I 54 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: work with, and I do see evidence at least the 55 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: things I notice. Of course, you might notice someone's fancy 56 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: car and not realize that they don't have a nice 57 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: house or that they more commonly are very much in 58 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: debt or living paycheck to paycheck. And the other thing 59 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: I mentioned on the list was you know, a shot 60 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: at retirement at a reasonable age and also savings. That 61 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: made sense, So like someone might have thought, and maybe I, 62 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: as a naive, I don't know, twenty eight year old 63 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: might have thought that you could have everything and that 64 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 1: just sort of stuck with me, and then when you 65 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: actually sit there and do math, you're like, oh, no, 66 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: you can't, or at least I can't. We can't, And 67 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: that's okay, it's completely okay, but you know, unfortunately, and 68 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: now I'm off on like a huge tangent. But I 69 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: feel like nobody talks about this stuff, even within the 70 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: financial independence community. There's not a lot of like concrete discussion. 71 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, I spend on this, so I don't spend 72 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: on that, or like, you know, I earn a great living, 73 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: but I still can't sock away more than fifteen percent 74 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: of it without compromising on the lifestyle. I'm just using, 75 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: you know, examples because again, it's very taboo to talk 76 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 1: about real numbers. And I guess that post was my 77 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: sort of reckoning of like where we are right now. 78 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: And a lot of people said, oh, my gosh, exactly 79 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: like what you mean, and a few people were kind 80 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: of like, ugh, privileged complainings. But I don't think I 81 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: meant it that way at all, or at least to me, 82 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 1: that's not how I wanted to convey. Yeah, and I 83 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: think this is all, you know, exacerbated by what we see, 84 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: right because I mean certainly, you know, living in a 85 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 1: nice area, high cost of living area, you see a 86 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: lot of wealthy people. You see what they have, you 87 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: don't see what they're trading off. I mean, we don't 88 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:28,119 Speaker 1: necessarily see people's bank accounts. But because of social media, 89 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: you also see a wider variety of what people are 90 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: choosing to show to the world and the various influencers 91 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: we can all follow. And so I've been thinking a 92 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: lot about this compare and despair mindset because I think 93 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: we're both subject to it, which is somewhat strange, because 94 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: I think we both recognize that we have really good lives, 95 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: like objectively very good lives, and I think we have 96 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: different trigger points that get us to get that sort 97 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: of jealousy when we see things on social media. But 98 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: it's something I've been reckoning with a lot, like what 99 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: should I do about that? And should I change up 100 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: my social media habits? Why do I feel this way? 101 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: What exactly am I jealous of? So I know what 102 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: I can do with that? And you talk about this 103 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: a little bit in we have an upcoming episode with 104 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: very exciting guests. But that made Sarah think about these things. 105 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: So what do you think triggers it for you, like 106 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: what triggers the comparison aspects for you. That's a great question. 107 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: So I'm not going to give too many spoilers. Can 108 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: I mention who the guest is are? Is that? Okay? Okay? 109 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: So Emily Ostar is going to be featured on the 110 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: next episode. I had a wonderful time interviewing her, and 111 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: I'm very sincere when I say I greatly enjoyed her book. 112 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: I didn't feel like the book meant to or should 113 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: have triggered any sort of comparison issue. But the thing is, 114 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: the book touched upon a lot of intentional decision making, 115 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: decisions around activities, around school, around where you live, around 116 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: all these things, which she mentions fairly enough have a 117 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: financial component. And I guess that's just kind of what 118 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: you know, if you're trying to live as intentional as possible, 119 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: but then you come to the realization that, like what 120 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: you thought was possible is not possible. It just I 121 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: guess that was a little bit of a trigger point 122 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: to me. And I will be honest, you know, the 123 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: more I am on social media, the absolute worse this is. 124 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna I'm gonna go through the list of 125 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: the things that I felt like, it seems like all 126 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,559 Speaker 1: the successful people have, Okay, a beautiful Pinterest perfect house, 127 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: because I feel like anytime someone shows their house interior, 128 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: it's like obscenely organized and looks enormous. Full time childcare 129 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,720 Speaker 1: because like, how else would you have time to work 130 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: out and do your job and all those things, or 131 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: you're a stay at home parent, So I guess one 132 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: or the other. Fancy cars, because I mean, I don't 133 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: feel like I see this one on social media as much, 134 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: but I see it in real life. So there you go. 135 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: Amazing vacations. I feel like every time I turn around, 136 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: someone's taking a giant ski trip or something like that. 137 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: Private school if that's a choice for people, and certainly 138 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: again where I live, that's really common and we are 139 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: doing that as well right now. Fully funded five twenty nines, 140 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,559 Speaker 1: and I admitted I was like our five twenty nines 141 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: right now could not pay for one year if you 142 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: combined all three of them together, could not pay for 143 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: one year of Duke University. So not that that's where 144 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: my children are necessarily going to go or get in, 145 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: but since my husband and I were there for a 146 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: while and he was an undergrad there. That's an example 147 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: school that if we were very lucky and had an 148 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: academic superstar, we might think about sending them there, but like, 149 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: we're nowhere near on that path. And also I've noticed 150 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: my feed has been filled with fancy overnight camp situations 151 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: with kids going and then the parents. There's this like 152 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: interesting trope where you're like, oh, I'm so sad they're gone, 153 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 1: but you're like, are you really? Are you really really? 154 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: And then they show a picture of their child water 155 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: skiing and then the parents are like on a boat 156 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: in Paris or something. Yes, And I'm exaggerating, but I 157 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: guess that was my list, Like that was what I 158 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: came up with. I don't get jealous of designer bags 159 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: or jewelry or plastic surgery or I don't know, other 160 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: fancy things. I'm sure Laura's like plastic surgery I want, 161 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 1: but I am in South Florida, so you know, it's 162 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: more of an art form there. But anyway, like that's 163 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: sort of to me. What I read was like the 164 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: list of what seems normal but it's so not normal. 165 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: And then the instagrammers that are showing this stuff like 166 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: their job is to show an enviable life, so you 167 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: kind of have to remember that, but it could be hard. 168 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 1: Is there one or two of those things that are 169 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: like the biggest, like oof for you, like the just no? 170 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,839 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I feel like we have done 171 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: a pretty good job in deciding which are the things 172 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: on that list we want we really care about, and 173 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: which of them we don't. I think the vacations, because 174 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I think we do have the ability to 175 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 1: take some nice vacations, but we certainly haven't spent that 176 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: much on vacations compared to what I see, and I'm 177 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: sort of jealous of that when I see that. I 178 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: don't really care about the cars, but like, honestly, there's 179 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: something about it where if you keep seeing it, and 180 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: this is so marketing, right, like our cars work great. 181 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: There's no reason that my car needs to be like beautiful. 182 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: It's probably not. Like it's probably one of those things 183 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 1: also where like the second you buy it, it would 184 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: become the new normal and then you wouldn't even care 185 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: about it anymore. I don't know, and like a child 186 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: would spill ketchup in it. I mean, that's just inevitable. 187 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: Oh yes, And of course we would get to like 188 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: bisc colored seats because it looks so cool, and then yeah, 189 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: the ketchup would just be ground in forever. Absolutely. Yeah. 190 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: So I went through it. I thought about, like, well, 191 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: what are the things that trigger me like going through 192 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: social media? And it's generally not any sort of consumer 193 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: items or houses. It's not cars, like the cars for 194 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: me like just doesn't whatever. I'm driving a ten year 195 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: old car. I think you are too, but it just 196 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: like doesn't whatever for me. It's when it's people talking 197 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: about fun sounding adult social plans. Another one is those 198 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: large families where the kids are all smiling in photos 199 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,479 Speaker 1: in their matching outfits and like the mom looks completely 200 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: put together, like her hair's blow dry and she's got 201 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 1: the makeup on, and clearly like you don't get this 202 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: with like your normal iPhone at home, Like you know 203 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: that there's more going into this, namely that somebody has 204 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:24,679 Speaker 1: been there doing her hair and makeup and taking professional photographs. 205 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: But of course then you're like comparently like well, why 206 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:29,439 Speaker 1: don't my kids look like that the photos, and like 207 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: they're not willing to get in their matching outfits without 208 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: massive dress and my hair looks like crap in photos 209 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: all the time, and I'm like, why why, So there's 210 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: that vacation photos where people are talking about how relaxing 211 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: and wonderful their family vacation was. So I was really 212 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: down this hole after looking at one. I won't say 213 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: her name. I mean she's a big influencer or whatever, 214 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: but it was a pregnant mother of five who took 215 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: her children to a resort and talked about how they 216 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: had so much fun that her hurt was full. And 217 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: having in recent times been to a resort with five children, 218 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: my first thought was like, lady, does your toddler not 219 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: wake up at four am on vacation and scream in 220 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: the you know, hotel crib so you have to take 221 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: them out in the middle of the night so he 222 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: doesn't wake the neighbors. Like do your kids not splash 223 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: random other people in the pool who then get really 224 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: upset about it? Like that didn't happen at your water 225 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: park experience? Like did your kids not break a plate 226 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 1: in the you know, buffet restaurant because they're like, I'll 227 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 1: just throw it on the floor and see what happens, 228 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: Like apparently their children don't do that. Like did your 229 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: preschooler refuse to eat anything but bread for days, like 230 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: and okay, so anyway, that was a particular trigger. Sometimes 231 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: I also get triggered by writers talking about like long stretches, 232 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: any sort of content creator creator in general talking about 233 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: long stretches of focused time that they have because their 234 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: entire family is structured around making sure that they have 235 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: intense concentration time. And it just so, those are my things, 236 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,199 Speaker 1: Like you could have a Tesla. You can have the biggest, 237 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: nicest sports car, like one of those ones I see 238 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: at the car show that's like a quarter of the 239 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: million dollars. I don't care if you have that, Like 240 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: I feel nothing about that, but that you were able 241 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: to have a calm and serene day with five children 242 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 1: at the water park like just makes me feel as 243 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: though I am living in a completely different universe. Or 244 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: that you wrote a book by a stream. I wrote 245 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: a book by a stream. Yes that's true. I'm gonna 246 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: go write my book by a stream. So having said that, 247 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 1: let's take a short break and then talk about what 248 00:12:51,320 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: we can do with these feelings of jealousy, Well we 249 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: are back talking about compare and despair. The frequent upward 250 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: comparisons many of us tend to make when we look 251 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: around us, when we look at social media, and how 252 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: on some level, how silly this is given. I mean, 253 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 1: I know many of our listeners have such objectively good lives, 254 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: you know, lives you would have wanted as a young 255 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: kid that other people are probably looking at your social 256 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: media feed and being like, I want that life. So Sarah, 257 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 1: what what do you do? Well? And I guess I 258 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: wanted to, Like, I know, I could see the emails 259 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: coming already, so I'm just going to head off at 260 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: the path, like what Laura just said, Like we get it. 261 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: Like the whole point of this is that we know 262 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: it's unreasonable, but I think there's a human nature to 263 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: do this, especially when you're in certain circumstances. So neither 264 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,599 Speaker 1: of us are sitting here saying, oh my god, what 265 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 1: was me? I like, I worked so hard and like 266 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: where is my freaking Tesla parking lot? Like that is 267 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: not that was like fully not the post at point, 268 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: it's where That's exactly it. It's like, well, it's probably 269 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: circumstances that are driving me and not just me. I 270 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: think it's much more of a sort of natural human thing. 271 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: Although again I love how Laura and I have such 272 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: different triggers. I think that's really fascinating, and I urge you, 273 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: as you listen to this to maybe dig deep down 274 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: into what your triggers are, because maybe that will help 275 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 1: you figure out what matters or what are things that 276 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: you can do things about. But I guess the two 277 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: things that came out to me were avoiding all those 278 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: aspirational things on social media because they are kind of 279 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: toxic in that way. I actually don't follow that many 280 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: like humans on social media anymore. The most accounts that 281 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: I look at are planners, like pictures of planners, and 282 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: that's pretty harmless. Like if I get really jealous of 283 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: someone's planner, I could buy it for fifty dollars and like, 284 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: we get all. It's an easy way to solve that problem. Yes, 285 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: we can all move on with our day. Although sometimes 286 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: I do get jealous of people who have like amazing 287 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: artistic abilities, but that's that's okay. It's still fun to 288 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: admire them. So I think it's what you're looking yet, 289 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 1: And if you if for myself, if I can't like 290 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 1: get certain people off my feed, then I like that's 291 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: I guess I'll admit, like I don't look at my 292 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: the underscore shoe Box feed because that has more like 293 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: actual people on it. I'm more am like, if I'm 294 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: going to scroll, I try to choose the shoe Box 295 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: Plans one because again I'm just looking at paper and 296 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: pens and stuff, and it seems a lot less harmful. 297 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: So I think your social media diet has a big influence, 298 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: and then it's who you're around. So Laura mentioned that 299 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: we're in a high cost of living area, but you know, interestingly, 300 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: we were in a much higher cost of living area. 301 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: Miami Beach was another world. And I will say, compared 302 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: to like the Broward County where we live now, it's 303 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: probably similar Laura to like you being in Manhattan versus 304 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: being in like Philly suburbs. Like where I am now 305 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: is still extremely nice, but it doesn't have that like 306 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: where people are actually like regularly living those Instagram looking lives, 307 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: you know, debt or not, I don't know. And I 308 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: will say that when we moved, my desire to spend 309 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: on certain things went down. Like in Miami Beach, I 310 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: felt I had to hire multiple performers for a kid's 311 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: birthday party like that that was normal. I had to 312 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: show up in like a really cute outfit. Oh I 313 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: didn't always succeed with that one because my kids also 314 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: spit on whatever I'm wearing and whatever. But then we'd 315 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: have like, you know, a face painter in this and that, 316 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: because that was like the baseline and that was what 317 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: you did. And now people are much more simple and reasonable, 318 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: and so we're like, oh, let's have your next birthday 319 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: party at our pool where we live. And I think 320 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: it costs like two interbucks to rent the thing, which is, 321 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: you know, still a lot of money. But I don't 322 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: even want to tell you what I used to spend 323 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: back in the day that was normal. So I think 324 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: that looking at who you're surrounding yourself with. Interestingly, I 325 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: listened to a podcast today in the car that was 326 00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: from the Money Meets Medicine podcast that talked about how 327 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: your spending habits were highly influenced by the people that 328 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: you spend time with. But I had come to that 329 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: conclusion as well. So your locale, your friends. It doesn't 330 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 1: mean you can't want our best One of our really 331 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: best close friends have Tesla's, So that does not mean 332 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to hang out with them. I always 333 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: want to hang out with them. But you know, just 334 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: your general circle of friends and your area can make 335 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: a difference. Yeah, I think you know obviously that reminding 336 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: yourself of the good things that do go on is helpful. 337 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,199 Speaker 1: And even if it helps to say that, yes, you 338 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: are probably the object of someone else's upwards social media comparison, 339 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: and so you can take with that what you want. 340 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: I think it does help to recognize that everyone does 341 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: make tradeoffs. I mean, maybe not like Jeff Bezos, but 342 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: like almost everybody. I'm talking people with very high combined 343 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: six figure income households, entry levels, seven figure households. There's 344 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: always going to still be trade offs at that level 345 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: because it's still it's not enough for everything that you 346 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: listed on there. But it's also possible to sort of 347 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: like confine the trade offs to certain things that are 348 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 1: less important to you. So I know that people Sarah's 349 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: wonderful about talking about specific numbers, but she put out 350 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: there at one point that she spent like seven percent 351 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,119 Speaker 1: of her income on housing. Now there are a lot 352 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 1: of people who spend thirty percent of their income on housing, 353 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: So that is twenty three percent that Sarah has four 354 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: other things that many people would be like, well, how 355 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: could you do X Y or Z, it's like, well, 356 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: because she's not spending twenty three percent of her income 357 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: on the house, she's doing other things with it. In 358 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: our case, moving from New York City to the Philly 359 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: suburbs was huge, not just being able to have more 360 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,120 Speaker 1: space for the same amount roughly of what we were 361 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: paying for housing, but you know, lower taxes, lower cost 362 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: of living, being able to send our huge number of 363 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: children to our very high quality local public schools. That 364 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: not only the time savings of not having to apply 365 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: to private schools, but then the amount that it costs 366 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: to go there is pretty pretty well if you are 367 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: in a place where you need to do that, and 368 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: I mean you know there there are definitely some good 369 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: public schools in New York City, but it's a lot 370 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 1: more complicated to make sure that your kids can go 371 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: to them. And that's a whole different subject. We don't 372 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,680 Speaker 1: need to go into that, suffice to say, it is 373 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,120 Speaker 1: wonderful to live in an area where our kids can 374 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 1: go to schools that are within five minutes of us 375 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: and that are awesome. So that is a huge savings. Again, 376 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 1: the amount that we don't have to spend on that 377 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: could pay for a lot. I still drive a ten 378 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: year old car, but if I wanted a nicer one, 379 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,159 Speaker 1: I probably could get it. But anyway, and then it 380 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 1: helps me to recognize that what you were saying, these 381 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: influencers are in many cases being paid to say what 382 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: they are saying. So this lady is not posting about 383 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: her resort just because heck, wasn't it fun to take 384 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: my kids to resort. The resort hired her to go 385 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: say that they had a great time there, Like, I 386 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,199 Speaker 1: don't know what that involved. Maybe each kid got their 387 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: own staff member for the day to make sure they 388 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: had a good time, which I can tell you if 389 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: I had that, it would have been a lower key 390 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,880 Speaker 1: experience for me. I would have sat in the cavana 391 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: with my drink all day long and then my heart 392 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: would be full. Maybe they had their resort photographer take 393 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: all the pictures and that's why they look so incredibly perfect. Yeah, 394 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 1: well so these people, I mean, they're talking about how 395 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: they're moms just like you, They are not moms just 396 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: like you. They have a production staff following them around 397 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: to make sure that their kids look like they're polished 398 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: and mom looks great, and that they're having an amazing 399 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: time selling whatever these products are that they are partnered with, 400 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: which is awesome. I mean, I have full time childcare, 401 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,000 Speaker 1: I have help with marketing my business. But let's just 402 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: be honest that that is an economic thing that's happening. 403 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: It is a commercial enterprise. It is not just mom 404 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: snapping photos with her iPhone. I also, you know, it 405 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: helps to dig into the jealousy to see exactly what 406 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: it is that most triggers me, because then possibly I 407 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: can do something about it. And I could see from 408 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: my list one it is that I have a toddler 409 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 1: and a demanding job, and hence I feel I am 410 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 1: not I feel like I'm not getting enough relaxing time, 411 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: and I would really like more time where I could 412 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 1: just relax. Okay, good to know. You know, it's a 413 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: lot of work to manage the logistics of five kids, 414 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: and I wish more of that would happen without me. 415 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: I get tired of looking like crap. I would like to, 416 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: you know, look better, or take better photos or things 417 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: like that. I would like the people around me to 418 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: take my job seriously, and they often do, but sometimes 419 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: they don't, and so then you know, I think about, well, 420 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,680 Speaker 1: what can I do about these things, and it might 421 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: be getting a little bit of extra help with Henry 422 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 1: on the weekends, for instance, which is definitely something we 423 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: are doing, recognizing that I can do more social stuff. 424 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: If I'm jealous of people's adult social plans, I should 425 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: go make adult social plans. Set better boundaries about, for instance, 426 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: driving my kids places. That part of having childcare is 427 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: that I don't need to do that. Obviously, my kids 428 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: would like me to more often than not, and sometimes 429 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: I will. It's a good way to talk to preteen 430 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: and teen kids is to get time in the car, 431 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 1: But you don't have to do that every single day. 432 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 1: And I don't know, maybe I need to hire one 433 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 1: of those professional Instagram photographers to follow me around and 434 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: you know, a style crew will stay tuned on that. 435 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: Maybe then your next vacation could be free. And then 436 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't see you going down that. 437 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm just a low maintenance in general. Like the idea 438 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: of wearing uncomfortable clothes like or uncomfortable show, I'm just 439 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: like I couldn't deal. I could not deal. So I 440 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 1: don't think my kids would be on board with that either, 441 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: Like I think they'd be like Wow, most families, like 442 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: we can do this in twenty takes, but for you guys, 443 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: we're up to like four hundred and we can't get 444 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: more than two out of the three smiling. So we 445 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: get this exactly exactly. So yeah, there we go. That's 446 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: how we deal with our compare and despair. I'm going 447 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 1: to get more glamorous photographs taken and post them on 448 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:49,400 Speaker 1: social media, and I will add like, so the other 449 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: thing that I wrote down that I forgot is to 450 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: remember that there's absolutely nothing to despair about. That number 451 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,959 Speaker 1: one what Laura said, some things you can actually do 452 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: something about. Funny, you know, like, yeah, I can't have 453 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: the whole, but like I can think about what's important 454 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: to me and make sure that like things are being 455 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:08,920 Speaker 1: allocated appropriately. But also like think about how freaking lucky 456 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: we are and like how great our lives are and 457 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: how much harder it could be and how it is 458 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: for many many others. So I think that is a 459 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:21,720 Speaker 1: super important part of the equation as exactly. And maybe 460 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, even just at the end of the day, 461 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: thinking through like the good things that did happen, right 462 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 1: that yes, there were rough moments here there everywhere, No 463 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: children and matching outfits, but like went for a trail 464 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: run and had a good dinner or various other things 465 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: that just could be awesome in a normal day, and 466 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,720 Speaker 1: thinking of those at the end of the day can help, 467 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,479 Speaker 1: you know, make you feel more content, which is what 468 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: it's all about. So let's move to the question, Sarah, 469 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: can you read this one because this is in your 470 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: Apple notes that somehow didn't transfer to my printed script. Yes, yes, 471 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: all right. This comes from we'll call her A and 472 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: she says, curious, how you manage or plan for overtime 473 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: or unexpected extra work that comes up in your professional lives? 474 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: Do you build in time in your schedule to account 475 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,240 Speaker 1: for this or simply have more of a line drawn 476 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: in the sand for how many hours you are willing 477 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: to work each week? I struggle with planning for the 478 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: unexpected at work while also knowing when to say no. 479 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: Any advice is greatly appreciated. And I will add that 480 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: we did not plant this because this is a very 481 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: Laura question. But this is a real send in questions 482 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: that they think they might want me to answer. I mean, well, 483 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 1: I mean so I want to hear Sarah too, because 484 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: I mean, partly I can give an answer I can 485 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 1: say with my own life. One of the things of 486 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: working for yourself is that over time you can learn 487 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,760 Speaker 1: to stay away from situations that are highly likely to 488 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: generate extra hours. And that's sort of an experience matter 489 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: of like how you see certain clients are a lot 490 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,439 Speaker 1: worse than others. Over time, you either make sure you 491 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,119 Speaker 1: are paid enough to compensate you for the amount of 492 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: pain that those clients are going to inflict upon you, 493 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 1: or else you move on to other people that are 494 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: more aligned with your vision of the universe. It's obviously 495 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,479 Speaker 1: a little bit harder when you're working in a normal 496 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: W two sort of job, although again there too. As 497 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,399 Speaker 1: you move around in an organization, you often learn that 498 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: there are certain situations that are better for this than others. 499 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: And it has a lot to do with who your 500 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: manager is. And if your manager is on top of 501 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: her game, then there isn't a whole lot of unexpected 502 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 1: overtime because she has figured out this needs to happen 503 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:40,880 Speaker 1: for this step. This needs to happen for this step. 504 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: This is what we'll do if we get behind here. 505 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: The only reason it happens is if there is a 506 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 1: true crisis and then you love your boss enough that 507 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: you're willing to do it right, so you want to 508 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: go work for that person. Now you may not currently 509 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: be working for that person, so then it's like, well 510 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: what do you do? You know, I'd say look at 511 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,920 Speaker 1: your schedule and say, well, where are the places where 512 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 1: I could most easily put some additional work hours if 513 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:13,159 Speaker 1: I chose to do that. For me, it's adding in 514 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: that split shift after the baby goes to bed, So 515 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: if he's down seven forty five, I could work from 516 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: seven forty five to eight forty five between, you know, 517 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 1: before the other kids need to start moving up toward bed. 518 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: That's an extra hour there. There might be another half 519 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: hour after those kids go to bed. There could be 520 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 1: some weekend time, you know, trade off with your partner, 521 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 1: like each of you gets one early morning shift to 522 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,159 Speaker 1: work or an afternoon to work if you want to 523 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: do that. Again, not driving, get some of the activity 524 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: driving off your plate, and that opens up time for 525 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: things too. That can give me about five to eight 526 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: hours per week. Taking those options pass that, it's a 527 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,080 Speaker 1: lot harder, and I'd either have to push other things 528 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: forward or decide that that's my line in the sand. 529 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: So maybe you can identify where those places are and say, like, Okay, 530 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: it's relatively painless to add another five hours. I don't 531 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,600 Speaker 1: want to, but if I have to, I can past that. 532 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: We need to start having a really good discussion about 533 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: why this is happening and whether somebody's expectations are off. 534 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 1: I mean, it might be your expectations are off, it 535 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: might be your organization's expectations are off. But managing it. 536 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,679 Speaker 1: Having that conversation so that you can get clearer on 537 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,240 Speaker 1: what really needs to happen, what doesn't, and whether you 538 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,440 Speaker 1: need to start pushing back a little bit, or if 539 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: that's not going to be a possibility, if you need 540 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: to start looking around for a different situation. Yeah, this 541 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,360 Speaker 1: is such an interesting question to me because I feel 542 00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,600 Speaker 1: like I don't have this happen that often. I do 543 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,440 Speaker 1: have it happen sometimes. It happened a couple months ago, 544 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: I was about to go on vacation. I was asked 545 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,159 Speaker 1: to serve on this very time intensive committee that was 546 00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: really important. I kind of had to do it, and 547 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: I guess in that situation, I push things forward. And 548 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: the thing is you have to have built enough buffer 549 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: that you're able to do that, which is usually something 550 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: that you have more control over. I may not have 551 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: had control of that emergency that was placed on me 552 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: to deal with. But let's say I knew I had 553 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: to submit something to the governing board for a GME, 554 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 1: and it's due August twenty seventh. Well, I don't want 555 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: to plan that I'm going to do that on August 556 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: twenty fifth, because then if I get something emerging on 557 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,680 Speaker 1: August twenty fourth, like it's an armagedon. But if I'm like, oh, 558 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 1: I'm going to be two weeks ahead of that, then 559 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 1: pushing it forward is not that big a deal. So 560 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: I think I naturally, because in the nature of my 561 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,959 Speaker 1: job is that some things probably are going to come up. 562 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,159 Speaker 1: I try to stay away so that there's like a 563 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 1: little bit of like accordion, like I can stretch and compress, 564 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: and then that also gives me the opportunity to add 565 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 1: in things when I am ahead of the game. So 566 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: I guess I don't know if that's really answering your question, 567 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: but I think that some of this can be solved 568 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: with your own proactivity and kind of planning for the 569 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: unexpected when it actually comes to like concretely, what have 570 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: I done in like a really emergent situation. Two options. 571 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 1: Number One, you can say no sometimes. I mean, if 572 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: there literally aren't enough hours in the day and somebody's 573 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 1: asking you for something like the next morning and you 574 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: have no childcare and you'd be up all night and 575 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: like it just you could just be like, you know, 576 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: unless someone's going to be hurt or something like, I'm sorry, 577 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: like this time is not feasible, please ask me next time. 578 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: I'm happy to do it with a bit more lead time. 579 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: So that's one option, potentially, depending on the nature of 580 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: your job. And the other is just pushing everything else 581 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: aside and getting up at like four in the morning 582 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: and cranking some stuff out, depending again how big this 583 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: theoretical job is. So those are just some of my Yeah, 584 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 1: I think it helps to keep track of your time. 585 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: Many of the people I know, a lot of our 586 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,280 Speaker 1: listeners are not in fact getting paid by the hour. 587 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this woman referred to it as overtime, so 588 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: maybe she is, which is a different scenario. Then you're 589 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: probably getting time and a half for it, which may 590 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 1: be worth it in some cases, and then other cases not. 591 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: Somebody else might want the time because they are looking 592 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: to make some more money, and so you could figure 593 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: that out if you have colleagues who are more interested 594 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: in that. But for many sort of salary jobs, it's 595 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: just so hard to know, like what is the actual 596 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 1: expectation of ours? How much are people working usually? How 597 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 1: much are you working usually? So it helps to get 598 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: a sense of that, because if you thought you were 599 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,040 Speaker 1: taking a forty hour week job and it is always 600 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: logged fifty, that's something you need to deal with in 601 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: either on your side or their side. However, if three 602 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: out of four weeks it is forty hours and then 603 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 1: one week out of four it's fifty, well maybe that's 604 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:19,560 Speaker 1: something you can just sort of say, okay, well that's yes, 605 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: we maybe a little more than I wanted, but it's 606 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: only once every month, so I can probably deal with that. 607 00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: But it helps rather than catastrophize that over time on 608 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: that week, keep it in perspective, but you want to 609 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: know what you're working with. That makes sense, and actually 610 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: that could benefit twofold, right, because you can have the 611 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: understanding to yourself. But also if you're like, oh my god, 612 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,920 Speaker 1: I just actually did work for sixty hour weeks in 613 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 1: a row, that's when you can if you have a 614 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: record you could have some objective piece to perhaps show 615 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,840 Speaker 1: your manager and say, listen, I'm working my butt off 616 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: and I'm still working this much. It looks like I 617 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: may have to delegate something. Maybe I need an assistant 618 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: or whatever it is. So I could see how that 619 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: could help kind of for yourself, but then also potentially 620 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,920 Speaker 1: to give it to somebody extrame exactly. All right, Well, 621 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: let's do our love of the week. Since we were 622 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: talking about social media earlier, I'm going to say that 623 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: I love looking at miniature furniture, like dollhouse furniture on Instagram. Now, 624 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: on some of that that could be like why am 625 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: I not creating some gorgeous dollhouse? But I don't actually 626 00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: really feel that way. Now that I can look at 627 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: the pictures of other people doing it, I feel like 628 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: I don't really need to put that into my life 629 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 1: right now. I'm enjoying their pictures. So maybe my entire 630 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: Instagram feed should be miniature furniture as opposed to other families' 631 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: fun days at the resort. Maybe that would make me 632 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: feel better. How about you, Sarah, It's like your miniature 633 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 1: furniture is my like, yes, exactly, it's perfect. Well, I 634 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: have a love of the week slash tip for everybody. 635 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: If you use Apple Notes, you can take a screenshot 636 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: and follow it directly into your Apple Notes. So when 637 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: Laura said today's question somehow didn't make it into her thing, Oh, 638 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,360 Speaker 1: it's because I think I sent it to her after 639 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: the fact. You can see that mine got pasted very 640 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: nicely into this email and the only reason I was 641 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: able to keep to I used to struggle with the 642 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: Instagram questions in particular because I felt like I had 643 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: to transcribe them and that took a lot of time. 644 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: But now I just hit screenshot, save it in my 645 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: Best Both Worlds question file and Apple Notes, and I'm 646 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: much much less likely to lose them. So that is 647 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: a great thing that I didn't know you could do. 648 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: It's wonderful. All right, Well, this has been best of 649 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,520 Speaker 1: Both worlds. We've been talking about comparisons, the compare and 650 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: despair phenomenon and what we can do about it. We 651 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 1: will be back next week with more on making work 652 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: in life fit together. Thanks for listening. You can find 653 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: me Sarah at the shoebox dot com or at the 654 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: Underscore shoebox on Instagram, and you can find me Laura 655 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: at Laura vandercam dot com. This has been the best 656 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time for 657 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 1: more on making work and life work together.