Speaker 1: Look man, oh, I see you? Why why? Oh? And
Speaker 1: look over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness ding
Speaker 1: dong last culturesas calling how you feel feeling? I'm feeling
Speaker 1: gas lit? Wait hold on, that's Can we just say
Speaker 1: stop it all? Because we I asked how you feeling
Speaker 1: and you were already saying I'm feeling that that that
Speaker 1: At the same time I had felt the psychic query
Speaker 1: the waves from you. You were gonna ask me, You're
Speaker 1: gonna check them with me? And I had I had
Speaker 1: my answer, wearing to go, well, what is it? How
Speaker 1: are you? There's a video right now that is circulating
Speaker 1: on Twitter of Mariah I hate it already. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I mean it's fine. It involves Maria, so do you okay?
Speaker 1: I'm more so. There's a There's a video of Mariah
Speaker 1: on a on a step and repeat with a ravenhered
Speaker 1: woman in her middle age taking a selfie with her,
Speaker 1: and then Mariah grabs this one by smiles, but while
Speaker 1: she's smiling, grabs this woman by the shoulders and throws
Speaker 1: her to the side. It very clearly looks like this
Speaker 1: woman is Diane Warren. But the person who posts this
Speaker 1: video tweeted the caption the text the way she threw Gillane.
Speaker 1: So now so now there's this. Now there's this firestorm
Speaker 1: over whether or not whether or not this woman is
Speaker 1: Glene Maxwell or Diane Warren. And people are like, wait,
Speaker 1: that's Diane Warren. And Diane Warren is getting up on
Speaker 1: the replies. Come on, you know she's gonna get involved. No,
Speaker 1: and this, this is what she's saying. She's replying to
Speaker 1: almost every tweet that's like, that's Diane Warren. She's replying
Speaker 1: to all of them saying no, it's not. If there's
Speaker 1: anyone that I'm positive has a Google alert for her
Speaker 1: own name, it's Diane Warren. But Diane is gaslighting all
Speaker 1: of us. And I never thought she would gaslight me
Speaker 1: to this level. But then I thought, you know what, No,
Speaker 1: she was gaslighting us when you know, we were talking
Speaker 1: about why did you do that? And the Star is
Speaker 1: Born were like, she famously said that's a real that's
Speaker 1: a real good song that was intended to be good,
Speaker 1: and why did you do that? And it's garbage? So
Speaker 1: I I have come to the conclusion that she is
Speaker 1: an anarchist. And oh my god, oh yeah, I just
Speaker 1: watched the David Foster documentary and she is in it
Speaker 1: a couple of times and I'm like, Diane, what are
Speaker 1: you doing? I mean, Diane has good things to say,
Speaker 1: but David Foster, that man, uh, we could say a
Speaker 1: controversial figure. So you watched the David Foster documentary, watched
Speaker 1: the David can we briefly discussed before we sort of
Speaker 1: segue into an actual important documentary on Netflix that people
Speaker 1: should watch, but which we which we've seen, but we
Speaker 1: also like sort of in the last few days, I've
Speaker 1: had I guess time for the garbage that is the
Speaker 1: David Foster documentary. What were your thoughts, Well, I mean
Speaker 1: there's a lot of great Netflix stocks. There's the Walter
Speaker 1: Mercado documentary that is excellent. There's a lot of great stuff.
Speaker 1: But we're talking about the David. We're talking about the day,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the trash. Well, it's it was even
Speaker 1: more so. And then I would say five for two
Speaker 1: or um, what was the Taylor one? Oh Miss American?
Speaker 1: It was more it was like it was like it
Speaker 1: was like self pr I. I can't put this in
Speaker 1: more elegant terms, but it's like to end the end
Speaker 1: the documentary on him, talking about his foundation, Like, come on,
Speaker 1: And then I think what you're trying to say is
Speaker 1: it's clearly coming from an egomaniac. I mean, and we
Speaker 1: we we've known that he's an he's an egomaniac, but
Speaker 1: then to see it all sort of live out in
Speaker 1: this way. And then when you and then when you
Speaker 1: talk to the daughters, when you see the daughters talk
Speaker 1: about him, you're like, oh my god, like he was
Speaker 1: a terrible father. Well, here's the thing. They don't think
Speaker 1: he was a terrible father. And they make a point
Speaker 1: to say that you feel that they're being gaslight by
Speaker 1: their own father. It's not gasling, it's just I mean,
Speaker 1: the equivalent, the equivalent would just be Stockholm syndrome. I
Speaker 1: guess where it's sure, you just sort of want to
Speaker 1: erase the trauma that you know your parents have inflicted. Well,
Speaker 1: you're saying a lot. I want to say if if
Speaker 1: they believe that their father is good and they have
Speaker 1: a good relationship with him, I'm gonna go ahead and
Speaker 1: bullie of them that he's a good father. Do I
Speaker 1: think he's a good husband, And do I think that
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on with Katherine McPhee yeah, we
Speaker 1: got to talk about Katherine. Well, I don't know Katherine.
Speaker 1: I've always I've always been suspicious of that one. No,
Speaker 1: that's suspicious of Katherine. I think that she's chaotic, good
Speaker 1: in the world. But I will say with Kathery McPhee,
Speaker 1: I would say to her she should watch the documentary
Speaker 1: because at the end, when they're like, what about this marriage,
Speaker 1: and she's like, you know, we're gonna make it work.
Speaker 1: We talk and then they asked him he says the
Speaker 1: whole time how he's a quote unquote runner, and they're like,
Speaker 1: are you done running? And he's like nope. And then
Speaker 1: it cuts to her being like, we talk a lot
Speaker 1: more than I think he did with his ex wives.
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, girl, I don't know. This be
Speaker 1: sounding opake, this be sounding opaque. It's actually a rutal culture.
Speaker 1: Number twenty two, Katherine Foster, this be sounding cake. Now.
Speaker 1: I did want to before we bring um our incredible
Speaker 1: guests seem so excited. I did want to just briefly
Speaker 1: say um not to bring it down. But I have
Speaker 1: not been able to stop thinking about Naya Rivera, and
Speaker 1: I just want to say that she was such a
Speaker 1: capital t talent, and she was such an amazing not
Speaker 1: even just on Glee, Like in the interviews that you
Speaker 1: watch of her, you can tell by the way her
Speaker 1: castmates and all her friends spoke about her. She obviously
Speaker 1: was like such a force. And I stayed watching Glee
Speaker 1: for so many years after I think it was like
Speaker 1: still like to like a show to watch because of
Speaker 1: her she took. I mean, let's just say this, the
Speaker 1: character of Santana Lopez should be on the list of
Speaker 1: the top two d the character of Santana Lopez and
Speaker 1: Brittany has Pierce, Like those were those were written to
Speaker 1: be like in the pilot and for a lot of
Speaker 1: the first season, like those were not written to be
Speaker 1: big rules, right, literally they were extensions of Diana on
Speaker 1: his character. They were just like her, like backups. But
Speaker 1: then they fully sort of formed on their own, and
Speaker 1: then it's it's it's Naya and Um. It's very clear
Speaker 1: that Um that character became what it became, which was
Speaker 1: really one of the leads of the show by the
Speaker 1: time it was over, because Naya was so talented and
Speaker 1: you know, she sang the ship out of some of
Speaker 1: the songs she covered like that honestly is still The
Speaker 1: Definitive Mind by Taylor Swift is the Naya Vera version,
Speaker 1: and I'll say the cover supersedes the original. Yes, And
Speaker 1: also she covered Songbird by Fleetwood Mac on the on
Speaker 1: the Fleetwood Mac episode that was amazing. She did a
Speaker 1: really good mashup of it was like in a Dell
Speaker 1: mashup of someone like you. And rumor has it that
Speaker 1: she's sang with Amber Riley. That was gorge and um,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm heartbroken that that she is not um with
Speaker 1: us anymore. And I just wanted to sort of give
Speaker 1: a shout out because Naya Rivera was the real deal
Speaker 1: and I feel like there was, you know, not everyone
Speaker 1: that's succeeding in this business truly talented, and she was
Speaker 1: truly fucking talented. And it's a shame she just but
Speaker 1: she like played this role that like with such a
Speaker 1: model for queer youth. And speaking of models for queer youth,
Speaker 1: we have our guests, yes, indeed, we do have our
Speaker 1: and we are placing the pressure on them. Actually we
Speaker 1: can talk about this, but we are placing the pressure
Speaker 1: on them to be to be role models for queer
Speaker 1: youth and only be moral paragons for the rest of
Speaker 1: their lives and only be that for the rest of
Speaker 1: their lives and not act out of Steff. Well, that's
Speaker 1: their first task is to do that and also sort
Speaker 1: of take this out of the depths of sadness where
Speaker 1: I've put this podcast I'm talking about. So they have
Speaker 1: a huge task ahead on the episode is to sort
Speaker 1: of uphold this thing as queer power couple idols and
Speaker 1: also sort of turn it around from the talk of death.
Speaker 1: So we're stacking the deck. But if there's people that
Speaker 1: I know could just know, it is them. So we
Speaker 1: have them both, which is huge because both there's so
Speaker 1: much to talk to both of them about because they're
Speaker 1: both iconic. I'll just say, for one of them, who
Speaker 1: we know from our days in the improv group, we
Speaker 1: have to talk about our transgressions. Matt, you and I
Speaker 1: I actually do want to talk about that. We we
Speaker 1: we've got to talk about it because because Nico Nico Santos,
Speaker 1: who was one of the guests, he said to me
Speaker 1: in the beginning, he was like, yeah, I've heard a
Speaker 1: lot about you. I'm like, okay, cool, Yeah, from my
Speaker 1: days as a bitch year old on an improv group,
Speaker 1: which was fully like me just coming in with all
Speaker 1: my insecurities about being bad at improv. I'm sure I
Speaker 1: represented myself gorgeously. Um But anyway, despite the despite the
Speaker 1: judith of it all, um Are, one of our guests
Speaker 1: went on to become a truly iconic cast member on Survivor,
Speaker 1: and I will say a game changer even hello, and
Speaker 1: such a game changer that he was invited to be
Speaker 1: on the season called Game Changers. But prior to that
Speaker 1: was truly one of the movers and shakers of the
Speaker 1: season Millennials Versus gen Next, which I believe to be
Speaker 1: one of the best modern seasons. I think up there
Speaker 1: with David and Goliath. I always say, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're watching in the last ten seasons, I always say, um,
Speaker 1: you know, San Wando Star, I like, I really like,
Speaker 1: I like co wrong and a lot. It's really good.
Speaker 1: I think it's great. And then Millennials gen X, which
Speaker 1: is has our guest, and then the next season was
Speaker 1: Game Changers and talk about iconic crazy ship that happened
Speaker 1: on that season, which which we will talk about, but
Speaker 1: I mean has really he's really just taken his place
Speaker 1: in the cannon and also features into the incredible documentary
Speaker 1: that's out on Netflix right now that I am so
Speaker 1: excited for everyone to hear more about and to watch,
Speaker 1: which if you haven't already, which is called Disclosure trans
Speaker 1: Lives on Screen, which I watched again this morning. Just
Speaker 1: unbelievable and we'll talk more about it, and it's it's
Speaker 1: about transparent representation in Hollywood really from the beginning of
Speaker 1: the Hollywood film industry. And it's incredibly eye opening and
Speaker 1: I'm so excit. I did. But he is only one
Speaker 1: half of our guests today are other guests Sitcom Icon,
Speaker 1: film Icon, we you know, you know him, you love him?
Speaker 1: From Superstore, from Crazy Ridge, Asian's One Time in l
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, Me, Him, Dolci, and Booster
Speaker 1: were just in our little Texas key King Sandra Oh
Speaker 1: was yards away, and it just felt very powerful. It
Speaker 1: felt like a lot of aligned energy, UM. And it
Speaker 1: was just and we were just three three gay Asian
Speaker 1: men who worked for NBC UM and it felt it
Speaker 1: felt it felt great. It felt like some some reboot
Speaker 1: of some kind, like a Time Horrors, Primetime Horrors. UM.
Speaker 1: So we're so excited to have our guests and they're
Speaker 1: together in their beautiful living room with their wal art.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about Oh my god, look at my barerass
Speaker 1: wall compared to their wall. We got to talk about walls.
Speaker 1: So please welcome into your ears, Nico sat Us and
Speaker 1: Zeke Smiths. Hi. I love having four people in the
Speaker 1: in the pod. It is nice. And now this feels right,
Speaker 1: It feels right. How are you guys good? We are
Speaker 1: in the midst of trying to buy a house. Um,
Speaker 1: and like we just got an outbid on the house
Speaker 1: that we loved and now every house uh looks like garbage.
Speaker 1: And we just wish we had like seventy five million
Speaker 1: dollars to buy a house with, but unfortunately our budget
Speaker 1: is a little lower than it is. Can I just
Speaker 1: say I thought the pandemic would sort of affect, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, would be to our advantage not buying a home.
Speaker 1: Uh No, absolutely not. It is like hunger games out there.
Speaker 1: It is it's I want to bang my head in
Speaker 1: a wall. But the prices, the prices have stayed the same,
Speaker 1: the same because everyone who like us, is still renting,
Speaker 1: wants to buy. The people who own, especially like people
Speaker 1: with kids, they don't want to move right now. So
Speaker 1: there are there's like three houses come on the market
Speaker 1: every day and we just sit in front of the
Speaker 1: computer and hit refresh and like it's been on the
Speaker 1: market for an hour. We're gonna lose it. We gotta go,
Speaker 1: we gotta see it now. I've been refreshing Zillo like
Speaker 1: it's grinder, just like somebody. My gosh, I have to say,
Speaker 1: this just happened to my boyfriend. He also put a
Speaker 1: bit in on a house and got out bit and
Speaker 1: he's looking right now. So I have I've been intimately
Speaker 1: familiar with this struggle. I feel my heart goes out,
Speaker 1: what is the scarcity thing that's going on right now?
Speaker 1: Because it's like because the just the describing refreshing Zillo
Speaker 1: hits the same spot in my brain when I think
Speaker 1: about refreshing l A County COVID testing like sites, I'm like,
Speaker 1: there's like nobody has anything right now. It's crazy. And
Speaker 1: yet you would think that, like things, the circumstances would change.
Speaker 1: What's what? So what does this mean for you guys next?
Speaker 1: I mean you you guys, just you guys. Are you
Speaker 1: guys are just working with a bigger budget hopefully er
Speaker 1: now No, that's I don't know. I mean we are
Speaker 1: thankfully we have a little bit of time. Um, I decided,
Speaker 1: you know, we decided to look. I mean, our our
Speaker 1: lease is not up till till for a while, so
Speaker 1: we we have some time to search for a home.
Speaker 1: Which is great because I thought we were like, well,
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do if we find a house
Speaker 1: and we have to pay a mortgage and rent we
Speaker 1: can't get out of the lease. But it looks like
Speaker 1: this is gonna be a longer battle search than we thought,
Speaker 1: so it may be down to the wire. So I'm
Speaker 1: so glad that we started early. Another part of it, too, right,
Speaker 1: is that you in order to see houses, it's more difficult, obviously,
Speaker 1: because in order to go into the new space, it's
Speaker 1: like a whole process. Yeah, so there's no more in
Speaker 1: person open houses. You have to like talk to your
Speaker 1: realtor and your real trist to call someone else and
Speaker 1: they have to call a third party. Then you have
Speaker 1: to sign a document, and it's it's a whole rigamarole. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I might I feel bad that, but you got But
Speaker 1: here's what I know. I know you'll find a house.
Speaker 1: I know that two you combine will harness the powers
Speaker 1: and find a home. Well, listen. I mean these are
Speaker 1: champagne problems. True, we're very, very fortunate to be in
Speaker 1: a position to be able to buy a home. But
Speaker 1: also we had the conversation this morning of like, don't
Speaker 1: you just hate it when a house has a pool
Speaker 1: but it's just like a little pool and not a
Speaker 1: big pool, And you were like, hold on a second,
Speaker 1: and like garbage. We need to stop talking like these.
Speaker 1: But it's not like you haven't put in the work.
Speaker 1: You've done five years on Superstore Hunt. I have been saving.
Speaker 1: I've been saving for a very long time, and I
Speaker 1: have been going to you know, putting, putting in my time.
Speaker 1: I've I've done a lot of shitty open mics to
Speaker 1: be able to where I'm at. So yes, and you're right,
Speaker 1: you guys deserve in ground, pool, in ground, hot tub
Speaker 1: for that matter, the ground. None of that's above ground nonsense.
Speaker 1: And you know what, ze because I mean, if if
Speaker 1: if Nick was done enough, should he open mics to
Speaker 1: deserve this? Zeke has done enough crazy bar basement improv
Speaker 1: shows with me and Matt to deserve this. Well, that's true.
Speaker 1: We have spent a lot of time in the mill
Speaker 1: do Field, Triple Crown basically you run it back around
Speaker 1: to Judith. Yes we met. Let's I hope you don't
Speaker 1: mind if we just talked for a second about please Judith.
Speaker 1: So Judith was, I would say, what what the gays
Speaker 1: in our like I guess extended circle would consider. Were
Speaker 1: we sort of like the minor league gay improv team
Speaker 1: or at least they thought so that. Yes, So there
Speaker 1: were two gay improv teams at the time. One was
Speaker 1: called Fancy. Many definitely thought they were better than us.
Speaker 1: And I would say, like, if you were to rate
Speaker 1: us on the scale of like who is the more
Speaker 1: traditionally attractive team, they were definitely that And we were
Speaker 1: like the shloby gays, but we weren't. We had we
Speaker 1: had hotties on the team. Him, here's the thing we got.
Speaker 1: We got people on on our team that are on television. Now.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's true, but but here's so funny. Well, Henry
Speaker 1: Russell Berkes is a very successful casting director. But I
Speaker 1: think we Judith has had a better track record. Judie,
Speaker 1: let's just let's just let's just get shallow for a second.
Speaker 1: Judith had Zeke Smith, Danny Lempert, Jason Sweden, Um Argent
Speaker 1: Chef Um jose me j I okay, and I full
Speaker 1: on and Nico. I'm sorry to say this. I full
Speaker 1: on hat Harvard a little mini crush on Zeke. Well,
Speaker 1: we always like tease, like, oh when are we going
Speaker 1: to make out with each other? But I think we
Speaker 1: were such too scared little babies to actually we were
Speaker 1: at the time, but we shared like lingering hugs. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: especially you bet that didn't come up with the NBC
Speaker 1: party with Sandro and I revealed it now for everyone
Speaker 1: to hear. I think we were too busy, like trying
Speaker 1: to catch glances at Drake and not get caught at
Speaker 1: that party. Yes, that's Drake was there? Was there also?
Speaker 1: Remember bohen I made you, um, I made you follow
Speaker 1: me around and and try to get me to get
Speaker 1: introduced to Sandra. Oh did we did? Did we? Did
Speaker 1: we do that? But did not happen because I got
Speaker 1: so shy and so scared. But it's okay because eventually
Speaker 1: after that we went to John Shooes house and she
Speaker 1: was there after the Critic Yeah, after which which Nico
Speaker 1: was nominated for. Nico has been nominated two years in
Speaker 1: a row. He's a critical favorite. Critical favorite was eighteen
Speaker 1: Come On new Come on, come on now recentcy bias.
Speaker 1: Did you end up meeting Sandra Yeah, we so we
Speaker 1: I met her at John Shooes house and um, she
Speaker 1: was very lovely, but she zeke. Actually we're having a
Speaker 1: much better connection. And even even it's so weird because like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm good friends with John and they are
Speaker 1: all these famous people that would come to this house.
Speaker 1: But I, I don't know about you, but every time
Speaker 1: I'm around like really successful, famous people, I always feel
Speaker 1: like the freshman at the senior party. Yeah. I don't
Speaker 1: know how to act. I act weird and people probably
Speaker 1: think I'm a stupid bitch or mean or whatever because
Speaker 1: I just act like I just yeah, I just become awkward.
Speaker 1: So no, I don't believe like I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, you're certainly coming off as a real
Speaker 1: stupid bitch, mean awkward person and this interaction. No, you
Speaker 1: are lovely, but believe it or not, I was actually
Speaker 1: talking to Sandra about Bowen. It was before Sandra Oh
Speaker 1: had done S ANDL. She was like weighing it with
Speaker 1: every because Ken John was there and I think I
Speaker 1: said it before, So I think I mean this was
Speaker 1: like Asian Central party and I was just like the
Speaker 1: happy little white guy there. Um. But you know, she
Speaker 1: was like talking about doing SNL and she was like,
Speaker 1: you know, I know Bowen's there, so it'd be pretty cool.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, actually, like you know, I
Speaker 1: was on an improv team with Bowen day and our
Speaker 1: team name was Judith. And like the thing about Judith
Speaker 1: is when we didn't have all the guys on stage,
Speaker 1: would be like, Hi, we're Judith, but tonight we're Judith
Speaker 1: lyte Ah and and she and that she was in
Speaker 1: and then we went off talking. I know we were
Speaker 1: under the influences of many substances, so we became great friends.
Speaker 1: But I don't think she'll ever remember. No. I think
Speaker 1: I was about to say that you probably pushed her,
Speaker 1: you nudged her in the direction of doing SNL if
Speaker 1: you were like that's what is I was trying to say, like,
Speaker 1: you know, she was worried about the writers room, and
Speaker 1: I was like, well you've got you know, you've got Bowen,
Speaker 1: and you've got Julio and yeah, you know I named
Speaker 1: other people who are you know, Suity. I was like,
Speaker 1: really like young, cool, like woke, awesome, funny people who
Speaker 1: are going to be able to write comedy that you
Speaker 1: will excel it. A great episode. She had a great
Speaker 1: episode that was that was to date still my busiest
Speaker 1: episode because I wrote three things and I was I
Speaker 1: was like, and I ran up. That was debut. It
Speaker 1: was and I was just like, and I have not
Speaker 1: had as busy for a week since. So I'm indebted
Speaker 1: to Zeke in a lot of ways and many more
Speaker 1: ways than one. But wait, can can we close the
Speaker 1: loop on the student conversation because things broke down over
Speaker 1: the course of time and then I think, I think
Speaker 1: my priorities I was just busy with work and I
Speaker 1: was and Matt and I were in a sketch group together.
Speaker 1: This is not an excuse, but this is to say
Speaker 1: that me and my hang ups about like my own
Speaker 1: free time and like being stretched tooth and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't think I can do it anymore. And I
Speaker 1: vary in artfully, like sent an email the day of
Speaker 1: a meeting that you guys that we were all having
Speaker 1: one day, and I was just like, guys, I I
Speaker 1: think I think I've phased myself out of the group
Speaker 1: and I think this email is just confirming I probably
Speaker 1: can't be in the group anymore, and I like have
Speaker 1: like it keeps me up at night, honestly, honestly like
Speaker 1: a a professional mishandling of mine, I would say, one
Speaker 1: of several, but like one of the ones that like
Speaker 1: really like where like weighs on me, Matt's making faith Well, no,
Speaker 1: because I don't even think you really have anything to
Speaker 1: apologize for I do. I think it's more me because
Speaker 1: I was such a cunt, and I honestly like I
Speaker 1: I think that like, well, it's only really the only
Speaker 1: I think that my insecurities about my abilities as an
Speaker 1: improviser had me sort of like um, acting like I
Speaker 1: didn't like sort of when I was at rehearsal, like
Speaker 1: not having great energy, and that had nothing to do
Speaker 1: with with and with anybody, but all had entirely to
Speaker 1: do with me not thinking I was good or funny.
Speaker 1: But also we're speaking a lot for what I don't
Speaker 1: What was your take on the situation, Zeke, Well, uh,
Speaker 1: and be honest, So look, I I didn't really care
Speaker 1: that y'all left the team, because what happened was the
Speaker 1: team began with Jason Sweeten and I, who's a very
Speaker 1: lovely guy in a hilarious sketch. Yes, his last name
Speaker 1: would in case very sweet Sweeten. And we just wanted
Speaker 1: to put together a team to like have fun because
Speaker 1: we didn't have a group of gay friends post college,
Speaker 1: and so we just gathered people together. But then they're
Speaker 1: sort of was like this invisible power struggle in the
Speaker 1: team where um, I won't name names, but they were
Speaker 1: like two guys who I think y'all know who I'm
Speaker 1: talking about, decided that like they wanted to be in
Speaker 1: charge of the team and that this was the most
Speaker 1: interesting thing that they were doing. And so it became
Speaker 1: very serious and there were rules and meetings and all
Speaker 1: of that jazz. And then I think what y'all figured
Speaker 1: out and when what I later followed was okay, like
Speaker 1: being on this improv team that does shows and basements
Speaker 1: is maybe not like the best use of my time
Speaker 1: if I wanted to advance in my career. Um, so,
Speaker 1: you know, I I have like essentially been kicked out
Speaker 1: of Judith because before I was outed on television, you know,
Speaker 1: I had this you know, I had been outed on
Speaker 1: the island and then had this time period to come
Speaker 1: home to disclose to people and as you both know,
Speaker 1: like I did not disclose to Judith that I was trained.
Speaker 1: Um like that was that was not anything anyone knew.
Speaker 1: And then there was speculation on like the survivor read
Speaker 1: it that I might be trans that one of the
Speaker 1: other team members read and shared with everybody else still
Speaker 1: active on the team. I did not know that. No, no, no,
Speaker 1: not on Judith. I'm so sorry. So I sort of
Speaker 1: got like, you know, I got outed on the island,
Speaker 1: which they didn't know about, and then before I had
Speaker 1: a chance to like tell everybody in a more intimate way,
Speaker 1: I got out. And the people who were involved in
Speaker 1: that are still like the central members of because they
Speaker 1: I don't really do improv branches and go to fire
Speaker 1: Island and whatnot. Um, so like they kept the team
Speaker 1: and I was sort of like, I'm going to hang
Speaker 1: out with Jason and Daniel, but just I'm you know,
Speaker 1: I just remember the energy not being great, and I
Speaker 1: think that I was kind of I came in like
Speaker 1: after bowing and so I only really knew Bowen very well.
Speaker 1: This is before Jason and I were on like a
Speaker 1: mod team together, so before I had really gotten to
Speaker 1: know Jason, and like, um, I guess what I want
Speaker 1: to say to you is that I had like any any,
Speaker 1: any sort of behaviors that you sensed from, like myself
Speaker 1: or bowing, Like I hope that can be in like
Speaker 1: the improv past, because I know that it kind of
Speaker 1: all sort of got weird. But like I feel badly
Speaker 1: whenever I think about, like any of my life from it,
Speaker 1: just like twenty to twenty five, like the way I
Speaker 1: acted when I was trying to establish myself. Um, not
Speaker 1: that it was like actually monstrous. All of us have
Speaker 1: acted monstrously. All of us were like until eight years old, Like, yes, team,
Speaker 1: when you actually think about what it was, it was
Speaker 1: like us like having drama like between eight game and
Speaker 1: like trying to do make um up and try to
Speaker 1: get on a team to do it comedy in a basement.
Speaker 1: It's just so funny now, yes, yeah, thinking about it
Speaker 1: seems it seems so important when you're first like starting
Speaker 1: to a career and trying to build something like literally
Speaker 1: anything you could do to to move the needle forward
Speaker 1: seems like the most important, most detrimental thing you could do,
Speaker 1: and it makes you crazy. It makes you crazy because
Speaker 1: it's a structured well, I mean, it's tongue specifically about
Speaker 1: like the UCB sort of power hierarchy. It's like it's
Speaker 1: a structured proving ground and I feel like, and we
Speaker 1: can talk about people have had this conversation before, but like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm saying I'm giving to stand up where it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, that's a little bit more autonomous in the
Speaker 1: way that you improve your skills as a stand up
Speaker 1: certainly with like with the within the community, but it's
Speaker 1: it's it's a solitary thing in the process of solitary.
Speaker 1: But like Nico, like you probably experienced a cutthroat nous
Speaker 1: that was stup. I mean yeah, but like what was like,
Speaker 1: what was your experience with it? Well, I I feel
Speaker 1: like the only thing about stand up that I really
Speaker 1: loved is that, Um, of course our politics involved with
Speaker 1: with the club scene and and how you're gonna go
Speaker 1: work in the club and how you're gonna advance the
Speaker 1: club and how to get to know the bookers and
Speaker 1: all that. But the thing that I really loved about
Speaker 1: it is that it is this thing where, um, it
Speaker 1: didn't matter that I was the fami faggot on the
Speaker 1: scene that the family engaged in on the scene. Um,
Speaker 1: as long as I got up there and crushed. That
Speaker 1: was undeniable to everybody else. So all all those bros
Speaker 1: and boys, comedy boys who were just like I rolled
Speaker 1: ay and giving me their shade. You know, I couldn't
Speaker 1: say shipped to me because I did better than them
Speaker 1: at the open mics. So and so that was the
Speaker 1: only thing that really sort of kept me going is that,
Speaker 1: you know, like they may think I'm just a stupid
Speaker 1: gay guy, but the fact of the matter is I'm
Speaker 1: getting up in these open mics and and the showcases
Speaker 1: and I'm doing really well and the proof is in
Speaker 1: the pudding because the audience is laughing. So that was
Speaker 1: the only thing that kept me going. And then was
Speaker 1: it from doing stand up that you were asked to
Speaker 1: audition for the Diversity Showcase. Yeah, you know, my manager
Speaker 1: um really encouraged me. You know, I had moved to
Speaker 1: l A and I was doing stand up, and I
Speaker 1: was doing UM I was doing the panel for Chelsea
Speaker 1: Lately at the time, I was kind of getting real
Speaker 1: traction in my in my stand up career, and then
Speaker 1: he encouraged me to try it for the Diversity Showcase.
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, I'm not I don't do sketch.
Speaker 1: I'm not an actor, like I really knows, Like, just
Speaker 1: just try it out, you know, your in l a
Speaker 1: people audition, that's what they do. So I kind of
Speaker 1: took my bits and turned them into sketch characters because
Speaker 1: I already do characters in my in my stand up
Speaker 1: and um. And at first they were like, you're really funny,
Speaker 1: but we hate your haircut. I had this really stupid,
Speaker 1: this really swooping sort of gay Hitler haircut. She had
Speaker 1: a cascade. Oh lord, it was like saved and severe
Speaker 1: in the size and then like a swoop which just
Speaker 1: felt like this it was. It was very just very gay,
Speaker 1: and and CBS hated it and they were like, you're
Speaker 1: going to be a writer and I was. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: well whatever, just get my foot indoors. So I got
Speaker 1: int as a writer. And then the other Asian guy
Speaker 1: in the cast um dropped out because they got a
Speaker 1: writing job. Andrew Law I don't know, yeah, so he
Speaker 1: was in the cast. He got a job for Seth
Speaker 1: Meyers I believe the time. So he had to drop out.
Speaker 1: And so they were like, let's plug in Nico in
Speaker 1: the parts that Andrew played. And then and then that's
Speaker 1: how it kind of became a cast and you popped
Speaker 1: off on the Showcase. And then and then I had
Speaker 1: that one sketch that was really racist funny, um and
Speaker 1: uh and that's kind of how I I yeah, sort
Speaker 1: of like my shining moment in Showcase. I mean, God, like,
Speaker 1: isn't that part of isn't that part of like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm just I'm gonna be specific to like an
Speaker 1: Asian experience where like upward mobility is coupled with like
Speaker 1: moments of like, oh this sucks, like someone like you know,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? I am very grateful
Speaker 1: to the CBS Showcase. I would not be where I am.
Speaker 1: Like it opened so many doors for me and made
Speaker 1: so many connections. But I you know, I feel like
Speaker 1: I sold a piece of my soul by doing that
Speaker 1: showcase because I did a lot of things that I
Speaker 1: did not want to do. I was asked to do
Speaker 1: a lot of things that I was like, this isn't right. Um.
Speaker 1: But you know, at the time, you know, it was
Speaker 1: so it was so weird. That was only two thousand fourteen,
Speaker 1: and it was still a very different environment than what
Speaker 1: we have now. Like the Showcase has changed. Now, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a CBS Diversity Showcase. Everyone listening just so they
Speaker 1: know what we're talking about. It's the CBS Diversity Showcase, which,
Speaker 1: as Nico is saying, has since made changes to be
Speaker 1: to be a better environment. That the industry it stuff
Speaker 1: has has changed so much. But at the time, you know,
Speaker 1: I still was coming from that place where like, you
Speaker 1: better suck it up, you better do what they tell you,
Speaker 1: because the rewards that are going to come from this
Speaker 1: are are going to be great, and you know, and
Speaker 1: I am benefiting from from that experience. But but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a it was a bitter sweet
Speaker 1: pill to swallow. I mean, we bown and I booked
Speaker 1: that showcase and then from asking people about it, decided
Speaker 1: not to do it because it was such a bad
Speaker 1: response we were getting from people that had done it.
Speaker 1: And then I think it was the year after that
Speaker 1: all of that came out about what it was like
Speaker 1: and what the culture was like. And now it has
Speaker 1: since changed a lot, and our friend Dave Mazzoni just
Speaker 1: did it last year and had a wonderful experience. Um
Speaker 1: so it's it's great to hear that it's changed. It's
Speaker 1: a shame that it had to change because it was
Speaker 1: so awful, but but it's I'm happy to hear that
Speaker 1: it's gotten better and obviously happy that you did it
Speaker 1: so that you can be nailing it like now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I realized that my experience is very sort of
Speaker 1: unique in that, you know, I mean, it takes time
Speaker 1: to sort of build a career and build opportunities. I
Speaker 1: just I feel like it was a combination of hard
Speaker 1: work and luck. A lot of the same things that
Speaker 1: I've that I've that have been given to me, that
Speaker 1: I've booked, I've just been lucky in some regards. Um,
Speaker 1: I have a question for you, was what did John
Speaker 1: tell you to have a British accent in the movie
Speaker 1: or was that? Was that a Nico choice? Because I
Speaker 1: think your your accent in the film is perfect, it
Speaker 1: feels real, it's real. I'm like, wait, Nico's wait, I
Speaker 1: don't think Nico's. When I heard you speak as you,
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, when you see Mattea, when you
Speaker 1: see Mate, You're like, oh, that's yeah, that's like I
Speaker 1: guess that could be an American accent anyway, But thank
Speaker 1: you for saying that that that means a lot. I
Speaker 1: really know that was that was a choice. I really
Speaker 1: wanted to stay true to the book. And I also,
Speaker 1: like you know, when I when I was developing the character,
Speaker 1: I actually was was asking these questions um uh to
Speaker 1: John through my agents, like do they want um a
Speaker 1: Singaporean accent because the singapore access very different, that's your
Speaker 1: pore in British accent. It's sort of like a hybrid um.
Speaker 1: And you know, I worked with a dialect coach to
Speaker 1: sort of land this sort of like because because the
Speaker 1: accident I was going for, you know, Oliver's is very
Speaker 1: much like an outsider in his own family, and and
Speaker 1: he is pretentious and wants to convey this image of
Speaker 1: even more so of a wealth and class that that
Speaker 1: he doesn't have because he's not as rich as as
Speaker 1: the rest of his family members. So I kind of
Speaker 1: wanted to sort of like pashi snobby accent, you know,
Speaker 1: I achieve compared to the rest of the family, where
Speaker 1: there's sort of like more natural British. Sure, tell the
Speaker 1: tell the tell the story about you trying to speak
Speaker 1: Cantonese and who you helped find the God? Okay please,
Speaker 1: So I'm on the plane to Malaysia. I booked this,
Speaker 1: I booked the part. I was like so excited. I
Speaker 1: was like, great, Um, I'm on the plane, um, you know,
Speaker 1: flying flying business class. Thank you Warner comfort and class.
Speaker 1: It was great. Um. And then I get an email saying, hey, UM,
Speaker 1: here's the cantonese line that you have to say in
Speaker 1: that scene. I'm like, excuse, what was that cantonese line? Um? Okay,
Speaker 1: uh great, no, no, yeah, I can totally do that.
Speaker 1: I can totally do that. And they sent me, uh
Speaker 1: an audio, an audio, a file of what the cantonese
Speaker 1: line is, and I'm like, I speak Cantonese, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm Filipino. Um. So I learned. I learned it phonetically.
Speaker 1: I listen to it over and over and over and
Speaker 1: over again. And then after working in it for hours,
Speaker 1: I also had the realization that the dialect coach that
Speaker 1: they have is this older Chinese guy who's sort of gruff,
Speaker 1: and Oliver is then sort of you know, classy, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, I can't say it the way he's saying it,
Speaker 1: because it's going to sound like an old butcher if
Speaker 1: I say it this way. So I had to go
Speaker 1: to my makeup artist who spoke cantonese. I was like,
Speaker 1: who was very queen. And I was like, girl, do
Speaker 1: me a favor and say this for me. And then
Speaker 1: I had him recorded lines and then I listened to it.
Speaker 1: Listen to it, listen to hours practiced it. The scene comes.
Speaker 1: It is the scene where we're making dumplings. The entire
Speaker 1: families there, we have uh amah, and then Michelle Yo,
Speaker 1: the beautiful Michelle You at the table, and then my line,
Speaker 1: it's my turn to speak, and I was like, this
Speaker 1: is my moment. I've been rehearsing for so long, worked
Speaker 1: so hard. Say it, Nico say it. I say it,
Speaker 1: and then this is silence. And then Michelle Yo just
Speaker 1: looks at me and goes, what are you saying? And
Speaker 1: I just turned right white, and I'm just like, I
Speaker 1: don't know. But she was. She wasn't like antagonizing you.
Speaker 1: She was just being like, huh, that's exactly what I
Speaker 1: was like. I was like, that's what it was. I
Speaker 1: was more tified, mortified. She can like cut you off
Speaker 1: at the knees with anything, just with like a glance
Speaker 1: or like oh my god. Well, especially in that character,
Speaker 1: she she was so amazing and just wonderful, Like she
Speaker 1: could tell at a certain point that I was really nervous,
Speaker 1: as as one would be filming a movie aig big
Speaker 1: stars and a legend like her, and she knelt down
Speaker 1: and whispered to my ear just before we started rolling.
Speaker 1: She was like, just relax and like grabbed my shoulders,
Speaker 1: like just relax, and I was, And I was also like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that is the iconic legend Michelle Yoh. We talked about
Speaker 1: her often on this podcast, amazing and brilliant and gracious,
Speaker 1: and that she was so good in that movie. And
Speaker 1: whenever an actress brings her own jewelry into the production,
Speaker 1: that's how you know that you're dealing with allegend. Yes,
Speaker 1: I mean, and let me just say we also saw
Speaker 1: joey that she wore that wasn't in the movie. Were like, huh,
Speaker 1: one thing. One thing like that I feel like gets
Speaker 1: lost in like, because there's so much to say about
Speaker 1: crazy rich Asians, people don't talk about Jemmy cham Like.
Speaker 1: We saw it together, Bone and I saw it together,
Speaker 1: and I think I looked over to Bone and I
Speaker 1: was like, that is the most beautiful woman I've ever
Speaker 1: seen in my entire life, and such a good actress
Speaker 1: and is it now correct me if I'm wrong. But
Speaker 1: the sequel is Astrid focus, it's more to do with Astrid.
Speaker 1: I have not read that. I mean like, I mean
Speaker 1: like I guess Nico can't talk about it though I
Speaker 1: can't talk. Listen, I haven't seen a script you talk about.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the script. I can't. I K you
Speaker 1: want to know. Um So I think the thing is
Speaker 1: that the first movie departs pretty far from how the
Speaker 1: first book ends, and um, okay, that I can't say.
Speaker 1: But what I can't say, I'm starting to filter, like yeah, wow,
Speaker 1: it's like it's almost like you have an n d A.
Speaker 1: But I think I think the idea is that they're
Speaker 1: just now going to do uh what they want with
Speaker 1: who's available at the time. There is the film like
Speaker 1: once we can film again. Yeah, I see. I think
Speaker 1: that's a big brush forward. I will. I think I
Speaker 1: might get in trouble for saying this. But I met
Speaker 1: with John before Pandemic head but the teaser viller, no
Speaker 1: no no, but he showed me the first the first
Speaker 1: number in in the heights and jealous. It's incredible and
Speaker 1: and I'm so sad that like people aren't gonna be
Speaker 1: able to see it for another summer, for another year.
Speaker 1: But John, oh my god, and the best, so nice
Speaker 1: that I had met him once before, and then we
Speaker 1: ran into him on the street outside of an ice
Speaker 1: cream shop. Remember gave me He yeah, he knew he
Speaker 1: remember that I was the boyfriend. But then he had
Speaker 1: a speculus like ice cream and he gave me a
Speaker 1: bite from his spoon from his cup so I could
Speaker 1: try the ice cream. You know what, that's the best.
Speaker 1: I'm just some like rando guy, and he's like, here,
Speaker 1: you can break people into two groups. You can share
Speaker 1: my ice cream right off the cone, or you cannot,
Speaker 1: and I prefer to be in the former group. Let's
Speaker 1: all share our ice creams. Of course, now during COVID,
Speaker 1: please everyone stay home and stay inside. No sharing of
Speaker 1: ice creams. But in general, once the vaccines come through,
Speaker 1: what's it's all like each other's cones. And with that,
Speaker 1: we're gonna taken. We're gonna take just the quickest break
Speaker 1: and then we're going to talk about disclosure. So we'll
Speaker 1: be right back and we are back in fact, and
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that we are because this movie Disclosure,
Speaker 1: this documentary that's on Netflix now that I want everyone
Speaker 1: to watch, and I I have been telling everyone about
Speaker 1: it is unbelievable. Zike, do you want to talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about how you got involved, what it is?
Speaker 1: Just like let us know, sure. Um. So, Disclosure Translates
Speaker 1: on Screen is a documentary that you can currently watch
Speaker 1: on Netflix Flicks and please do and once you watch
Speaker 1: it and are moved, which inevitably you will be, so
Speaker 1: tell everybody you know about it to to watch it. Um.
Speaker 1: We we had we had a premiere at Sundance um
Speaker 1: in January, like right before things started locking down, and
Speaker 1: and that was a ton of fun. Uh. We were
Speaker 1: in like the Getty. Uh the way it works at Sundances,
Speaker 1: they turn all of the restaurants and art galleries into
Speaker 1: press studios. So like you're like, I'm going to Johnny's
Speaker 1: Pizza to take pictures for Getty, and then I'm going
Speaker 1: to the Who's the Watson Art Gallery to take pictures
Speaker 1: for Variety whatever it is. So we're, um, We're like
Speaker 1: in this pizza place and all of a sudden, like
Speaker 1: the Secret Service walks in and it's like everybody on
Speaker 1: the left side of the room needs to move to
Speaker 1: the left. Everybody on the right side of the room
Speaker 1: needs to move to the right, and it's it's very
Speaker 1: calm um. And then like in walks Hillary Clinton with
Speaker 1: her entourage. Yeah. Yeah, so she like in walks Hillary
Speaker 1: with her entourage and everyone is looking at her and
Speaker 1: she's like Hi, hello, yes, and you're like, holy ship,
Speaker 1: that's that's Hillary Clinton. Want pictures? And then they left
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh wow, Uh, it was just there
Speaker 1: was like Hillary Clinton just sucked. Imagine every time you've
Speaker 1: walked into a room for the past thirty years that
Speaker 1: everyone has stopped and stared at you as you walking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's It's hard. I I covered Sundance for Vulture
Speaker 1: the year prior, so I was there and um, it's
Speaker 1: just insane the level of celebrity that rolls through that
Speaker 1: very small really it's a street. Yeah. That's what people
Speaker 1: don't get is that it's just that one like road
Speaker 1: and you're walking by and it's like, oh, I just
Speaker 1: walked past blithe Banner, like stroll him. But you went
Speaker 1: there with the film. But we went there with the film.
Speaker 1: We had a really good premiere, and then there were
Speaker 1: all of these plans to have a theatrical release UM
Speaker 1: to package it into sort of like an educational thing
Speaker 1: that we could take to schools and and we work
Speaker 1: places to educate. But then the pandemic happened and we
Speaker 1: just really wanted people to see it, So it ended
Speaker 1: up on Netflix released on on June team, which was
Speaker 1: intentional because the I would say the primary focus and
Speaker 1: lens of the of the of the film is not
Speaker 1: just about how trans people have been portrayed, but also
Speaker 1: about how black trans people and trans people of color
Speaker 1: UM have been portrayed, and how much of what we
Speaker 1: have seen images of trans people, which are almost exclusively
Speaker 1: written by people who are not trans, how those images
Speaker 1: have really shaped and formed who and what we think
Speaker 1: trans people are, not just too like what SIS people
Speaker 1: think trans people are, but how those images have informed
Speaker 1: how trans people ourselves, understand ourselves, and that like we
Speaker 1: both have work, like we trans and SIS people have
Speaker 1: work to do in like you know, untangling these image
Speaker 1: and our images and our psyches to like understand the
Speaker 1: real lived experiences of trans people UM and I saw.
Speaker 1: I got involved in the project about three years ago.
Speaker 1: I was at outfest s a transpanel on out an
Speaker 1: Outfest which is an LGBT from festival here in l A.
Speaker 1: And Sam Feder, the director, just had a rough cut
Speaker 1: of twenty minutes, no commentary. It was just twenty minutes
Speaker 1: of images from d W. Griffith to Laverne Cox in
Speaker 1: Orange is the New Black and just seeing that, just
Speaker 1: watching the images and watching how one had bled into
Speaker 1: the other, and then all of a sudden there was
Speaker 1: this abrupt little change at the end. It was really powerful.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the same event that Laverne Cox was at,
Speaker 1: which um you know, inspired her to become the executive
Speaker 1: producer of the film. And uh yeah, I love the director.
Speaker 1: He's just like a great guy named Sam Feder, and
Speaker 1: he's a buddy, a buddy of mine. We really enjoy him.
Speaker 1: But it's been um yeah, it's it's been so exciting
Speaker 1: for us because the documentary has been so like well
Speaker 1: received and so broadly received, and we just didn't know
Speaker 1: if it was just gonna get buried in the Netflix
Speaker 1: algorithm and the you know, the the the outpouring of
Speaker 1: um you know, support, and you know, the feeling that
Speaker 1: it's really touched people's lives is you know, I've been
Speaker 1: very exciting. We're very happy hearing. I feel like the
Speaker 1: significance to the connection to Juneteenth is probably rooted in
Speaker 1: the sort of birth of a nation of it all,
Speaker 1: which is which I think, like is the seed crystal
Speaker 1: of the way that media representations affect perceptions of marginalized people.
Speaker 1: Two with I mean with within I was gonna say
Speaker 1: two wider odds, but just within society because of that,
Speaker 1: because I mean, a portrayal of a trans person, let's say,
Speaker 1: a negative portrayal of a trans person will negatively affect
Speaker 1: a trans person in a way that like a racist
Speaker 1: portrayal of a person of color or a black person
Speaker 1: will negatively impact a black person. I mean, I'm saying
Speaker 1: something that that goes without saying, but like that's I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: it does. It is rooted in that kind of original
Speaker 1: struggle of media representation, which is which I think the
Speaker 1: movie even like like sort of unearthed in a way
Speaker 1: that really struck me, which is that we the more
Speaker 1: representation we have of trans people, then in some ways,
Speaker 1: the more violence is enacted upon trans people, which is
Speaker 1: like the chilling thing of it all. I think it
Speaker 1: is like trans people have been going to the bathroom
Speaker 1: for decades now and it's only within the past, only
Speaker 1: in the past decades. Okay, so only in the past
Speaker 1: five years that like anyone has decided to have a
Speaker 1: problem with trans people going to the bathroom. Um. And
Speaker 1: that's true. With visibility does come more violence. But I
Speaker 1: think that this is like, this is an inevitable hump
Speaker 1: in any sort of struggle. Is you know if you
Speaker 1: when you live in the shadows, yes it's technically safer,
Speaker 1: but you're not really living at all. And as you
Speaker 1: attempt to emerge into the light, people are going to
Speaker 1: fight you. But I think you know what, what we
Speaker 1: believe is that we will that we will win, and
Speaker 1: we will no longer walk in fear. Um. And you know,
Speaker 1: also how much pushback you get is dependent upon other factors.
Speaker 1: It's depended upon you know, our you a woman, are
Speaker 1: you a person of color? You know, so many of
Speaker 1: those other intersectional factors play a role in the amount
Speaker 1: of violence of transfers and experiences. You said something when
Speaker 1: the focus I mean, first of all, yes, I mean sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm all over the place. But the documentary is remarkable
Speaker 1: in the way that is seamless in these the sequence
Speaker 1: of footage that it shows, and then it moves from
Speaker 1: topic to topic or genre to gen or project projects
Speaker 1: so seamlessly, and then at a certain point it gets
Speaker 1: to transmasculine representation and you talk about how, um, transmasculine
Speaker 1: representation isn't as or just being transmasculine is not as
Speaker 1: scandalous sexy sexy. Yes, that might be true, but it
Speaker 1: still doesn't minic It doesn't really it doesn't take away
Speaker 1: from the oppression of a transmasculine person even though they're not.
Speaker 1: Even though that it's it's it's it's it's more. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say here, I think that what you're trying to
Speaker 1: get at is, um, the experiences of like the violence
Speaker 1: or the oppression that that trans people face is is
Speaker 1: split sort of whether or not you're a trans man
Speaker 1: or trans woman, because trans women face violence and pushback
Speaker 1: because they are hyper visible. Um, they can you know
Speaker 1: people you know, they're they're they are visibly read as
Speaker 1: trans or they are visible in the media, whereas trans
Speaker 1: men are much less visible. And also trans men you know,
Speaker 1: it's sort of like you grow a beard and you
Speaker 1: cut your hair and nobody really thinks twice about it. Right, Um,
Speaker 1: but that does mean we we live in in silence
Speaker 1: and the shadows. We don't know how to find um
Speaker 1: other people like us. You know, you knew me when
Speaker 1: I was you know, before I really told people that
Speaker 1: I was trans. And part of that, uh, the reason
Speaker 1: why is that I just didn't have any trans adults
Speaker 1: in my life. Like I had a couple of mentors
Speaker 1: in college who helped me transition. But once like you know,
Speaker 1: I got to New York, I graduated from college, all
Speaker 1: of my sort of like trans stuff was in order,
Speaker 1: and I didn't know how to go about being in
Speaker 1: the world as a trans person. And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: this is just a lot easier people don't know that
Speaker 1: I'm I feel a lot more seen when people don't
Speaker 1: know that I'm trans. But that did, sort of, like
Speaker 1: you know, cause a part of me to be put
Speaker 1: on on the back burner for a very long time. Well,
Speaker 1: people say representation matters so much that it almost loses
Speaker 1: its impact. But the representation matters households. I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: we talk about it at least once every day. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But but when you see this documentary, you will understand
Speaker 1: in a whole new level why representation matters. Because, as
Speaker 1: you were saying, when you're growing up trans as everyone
Speaker 1: and there's so many amazing people that are featured in
Speaker 1: this documentary. But as everyone makes clear, because there is
Speaker 1: no one to look when when you were the only example,
Speaker 1: that's the example, and when repeatedly those examples are I
Speaker 1: mean even in the quote unquote great films that have
Speaker 1: been nominated for Oscars or the portrayals of trans people
Speaker 1: have been OSCAR nominated. So it's almost like saying to
Speaker 1: the viewer like this was capital G good and this
Speaker 1: is what is aspirational about you know, being trans or
Speaker 1: how how you treat a trans person, and you see
Speaker 1: broken down the documentary, no one piece of media has
Speaker 1: really ever gotten it right, because there's really and even
Speaker 1: the things like Boys Don't Cry, where there is so
Speaker 1: much great about the film, they completely erase the black
Speaker 1: man that was killed alongside to the alongside Brandon, and
Speaker 1: so it's it's still even because there's so few examples,
Speaker 1: those are the examples that we have, and that's my
Speaker 1: representation matters because not only is a general audience watching that,
Speaker 1: but trans kids are watching that, trans people are watching that,
Speaker 1: and so as you were saying, it really influences the
Speaker 1: psyche and how they see themselves. I remember even being
Speaker 1: assis white gay kid and thinking I would die, but
Speaker 1: whether by suicide or AIDS, because that's what I was told,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I can't even imagine
Speaker 1: like only seeing something like the silence of the lamps,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, while it's an quote
Speaker 1: unquote incredible film Oscar nominated, it still was a depiction
Speaker 1: of a trans person that was a serial killer. And
Speaker 1: because they're so few examples of trans people on screen,
Speaker 1: people see that and they think, well, that must be
Speaker 1: what trans people are. And it sounds crazy now, but
Speaker 1: that's the reality, and that the film does it incredible
Speaker 1: uh job of showing that and making people understand that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think, so Jen Richards is this incredible. She's
Speaker 1: in super Bowl, um, and she has this this line
Speaker 1: of the documentary which is like, the way we fix
Speaker 1: this is we just have more Because if you have
Speaker 1: more trans representation that is like ideally written, directed and
Speaker 1: performed by trans people, then like when someone does something shitty,
Speaker 1: you know, piece has like a shitty trans character, it
Speaker 1: won't matter as much because it will be diluted by
Speaker 1: the rest of the good representation. Exactly, absolutely, And I
Speaker 1: just it's so it really is emotional, like when when
Speaker 1: they get to the point of the documentary when you
Speaker 1: see the credits of Oranges of the New Black start
Speaker 1: to come on, like the opening credits, the iconic opening
Speaker 1: credits that we all remember so well from the first
Speaker 1: time we started watching it on Netflix. Um, because you realize, like,
Speaker 1: you know, while it was about a woman's prison, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like, so even with that, there's
Speaker 1: like you take the good, you take the bad, we
Speaker 1: still got really one of the first like humane, like
Speaker 1: fully rounded representations of a trans person and it wasn't
Speaker 1: portrayed by a straight actor, you know, it was portrayed
Speaker 1: authentically by a trans person. And just how huge that was? Right, Yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: that's what I meant. So it was the trans role
Speaker 1: was not portrayed by as actor. And even with even
Speaker 1: with the Candice Cane and dirty sexy money of it all,
Speaker 1: like the fact, like how soul crushing is it doesn't
Speaker 1: have to be to like get all amped up to
Speaker 1: watch like your TV debut or just like you're never
Speaker 1: TV debut, and then to have them lower your voice
Speaker 1: by octaves. It's like, oh my god, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: Like even after you do the job, and even after
Speaker 1: you're like on set and like that's a fraud environment
Speaker 1: where you're like making sure you do a good job.
Speaker 1: The camera's on you, it's your it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's your coverage. You do it. And I'm sure like
Speaker 1: she like was going through a million different emotions in
Speaker 1: the production of that. But after the fact, after you wrap,
Speaker 1: someone else can still get their hands in there and
Speaker 1: funk it up. I don't know, It's a betrayal, a
Speaker 1: betrayal of the highest and to not to not even
Speaker 1: get a phone calls just like this is happening totally. Um,
Speaker 1: speaking of betrayals, I don't know, is it's a dumb segue. Well,
Speaker 1: I just want to talk about Okay, you've you've talked
Speaker 1: to death about this, I'm sure, Zeke, But the the
Speaker 1: the speaking of disclosure, I mean, how do you how
Speaker 1: do you look back on this now? I mean now
Speaker 1: that you have even more distance from it than you
Speaker 1: were talking about. So, first of all, I almost feel
Speaker 1: bad that like Zeke's survivor experience is boiled down to
Speaker 1: this thing that happened, and and and I because Zeke,
Speaker 1: you are an unbelievable strategic Survivor player and that needs
Speaker 1: to be and you know that. And he went after
Speaker 1: he went after Sandra Diaz Twine and he did not.
Speaker 1: I am the original new Slayer and I want to
Speaker 1: talk more about more about that. But but I Bowen
Speaker 1: is asking about Jeff Varner's outing of you, and just
Speaker 1: like what that because it is really it's an iconic
Speaker 1: moment in television history for LGBT people. I was wondering
Speaker 1: if that was ever like discussed as being part of
Speaker 1: the film, because I was kind of surprised to see
Speaker 1: that it wasn't included. Yeah, so uh there. I think
Speaker 1: there was like a segment about my being did in
Speaker 1: in the film until like one of the later cuts
Speaker 1: that was one of the last things cut. Um And
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, but some argument should have been
Speaker 1: in the film. I feel, you know, I'm trying not
Speaker 1: to be a diva about these things because it's the
Speaker 1: community on the youth. Um. But but like I mentioned,
Speaker 1: the director is a very close friend of mine, and
Speaker 1: he was explaining that, you know, sort of the significance
Speaker 1: of my time on Survivor is that, you know, much
Speaker 1: like in other media, the trans person is outed, but
Speaker 1: in my instance, people didn't you know, vomit or have
Speaker 1: a violent reaction. In fact, everybody like stood up and
Speaker 1: defended me. And the the bad person was not the
Speaker 1: trans person who did not disclose their gender history. It
Speaker 1: was the person who outed me. Um. And yeah, so
Speaker 1: like the focus was not so much on the trans
Speaker 1: like and that's true, Like my my trans story on
Speaker 1: Survivor was more about like, oh hey, everybody rallied around
Speaker 1: me more than it was like Zeke got out in
Speaker 1: damn he found seventeen idols and triumphed and won the show. Um,
Speaker 1: because that's not what happened. Um. But yeah, uh yeah,
Speaker 1: so I guess to put some context to go in.
Speaker 1: I was on Survivor about three years ago. I did
Speaker 1: two seasons back to back. So I did one and
Speaker 1: then two weeks later I went back and did another one,
Speaker 1: And in the midst of that second season, I was
Speaker 1: outed as transgender, and that I was transgender made global
Speaker 1: headlines when it aired. Um. And as to how I
Speaker 1: feel about it, I don't know. It's weird. Like a
Speaker 1: lot of Survivor, it just sort of feels like a
Speaker 1: fever dream. It feels like this thing. I'm pretty disconnected
Speaker 1: from UM. But I I guess I sort of feel
Speaker 1: two ways about it. One is that like, I am
Speaker 1: very proud and I will always be very proud of
Speaker 1: how much of an impact that moment made in the
Speaker 1: lives of so many trans kids and their parents. Um.
Speaker 1: And I had a lot of emails from kids and
Speaker 1: their parents and those always are super meaningful. And I
Speaker 1: also get a chance to talk to people who I
Speaker 1: don't think I had an opinion one way or the
Speaker 1: other on trans people and now are like, oh, I
Speaker 1: have an understanding of what trans people are and I
Speaker 1: would like to be supportive of them. I recently got
Speaker 1: an Instagram message from a trans dude in the Army
Speaker 1: and he was like, um, he had to go meet
Speaker 1: with this new commanding officer. And he was like, oh God,
Speaker 1: the commanding officer wants to meet with the trans guy.
Speaker 1: This is going to be the whole thing. And he
Speaker 1: walks into the guy's office and the guys like so
Speaker 1: Like I watched Survivor, I saw Zeke I get it.
Speaker 1: Just wanted to let you know you're cool, and you're
Speaker 1: like all right, like that, if you can, if you can,
Speaker 1: you know, if my experience can make other trans people's
Speaker 1: lives like easier and that there are like fewer hurdles
Speaker 1: to jump through than like, I am very proud of that. UM,
Speaker 1: I do have misgivings about the ethics of how Survivor
Speaker 1: is made. I hear that, Yeah, I totally. I wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you specifically about UM, the way that they
Speaker 1: treated it on set. I wanted to know when it happened,
Speaker 1: did they was there any conversation about was it up
Speaker 1: to you whether it would be included UM or was
Speaker 1: it just kind of like this is going to be
Speaker 1: included and so let's take a second and you decide
Speaker 1: the way you want to respond, Like what what happens
Speaker 1: during a reality television show where this thing that's going
Speaker 1: to impact your life in such a major way goes
Speaker 1: down and then you have to continue. Yeah, so you know,
Speaker 1: he he said what he said, And I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: I'm quite confident they knew that that was going to
Speaker 1: happen before we worked into Tribal Council though, I really really,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure, Yeah, he was alluding to it or
Speaker 1: had explicitly said that he was going to do it, UM,
Speaker 1: And uh, you know, so we walk in there and
Speaker 1: it happens, and it's just it was very emotional, so
Speaker 1: everyone is just consumed by the moment. And I sort
Speaker 1: of like went into a state of shock and like
Speaker 1: didn't talk for almost like forty five minutes, but everyone
Speaker 1: around me was sort of like I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: what how do I need to defend myself? And then
Speaker 1: everyone just like around me was saying the exact right
Speaker 1: things that needed to be said. Um. And then I
Speaker 1: sort of like came back to and was like, okay,
Speaker 1: how can we like kind of just like put a
Speaker 1: bow on this and wrap it up? But it was
Speaker 1: just it was very real. It was very like real
Speaker 1: two and a half hours of everyone's life that was
Speaker 1: very emotional, and there would have then there was no
Speaker 1: natural pacing to stop it. It's not like and nor
Speaker 1: nor is that Jeff style, right if Jeff is very
Speaker 1: much survivor being about the culture and what happens is
Speaker 1: real and YadA YadA YadA um. And so it happened,
Speaker 1: and then I had an interview the next morning about it,
Speaker 1: and then it was basically like we all said like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna pretend that this didn't happen, um, which
Speaker 1: like is the best thing you can do when survivor
Speaker 1: going forward, right, because now I became a target because
Speaker 1: like I had a story, so after it happened, there
Speaker 1: was no way I was gonna win anything. And also
Speaker 1: like no one really like appreciated that something really terrible
Speaker 1: had happened to me and that I was sort of
Speaker 1: like spiraling out of control emotionally, like it was there
Speaker 1: were very bad things happening inside my head, but we
Speaker 1: just like no one was talking about it. So like mercifully,
Speaker 1: I get voted off like eleven days later, and then
Speaker 1: like the next day, I'm talking with the therapist and
Speaker 1: the show therapist and she's like, so we're gonna put
Speaker 1: you in therapy when you get home, and we want
Speaker 1: you to find someone expensive and won't want you to
Speaker 1: go once a week. And I was like okay, great,
Speaker 1: And then like a day after that, I was having
Speaker 1: conversations with Jeff about like we're going to make this
Speaker 1: a really important moment and if you can just play
Speaker 1: ball with us, then we can do great things. We
Speaker 1: can do people Magazine, we can like I have this
Speaker 1: vision and I'm gonna take care of you and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna fight for you if you can lay ball with us,
Speaker 1: and that's sort of what the conversation. There's never like
Speaker 1: can we air this? How should we tell the story?
Speaker 1: It was more like a pitch from Jeff being like, hey,
Speaker 1: you want to be my friend, Let's let's do it
Speaker 1: this way. And I wanted to to be his friend,
Speaker 1: because when you're doing a reality show, it doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: you sign a contract. It's basically like guaranteeing them to
Speaker 1: give you your firstborn and then they can kill you afterwards,
Speaker 1: right like, and they put you in a position where
Speaker 1: you're made to feel really disempowered, like you don't have
Speaker 1: any control over anything. And I had been living in
Speaker 1: survivor Land for essentially four months at that point, so
Speaker 1: it's not like I got back my autonomy or you know,
Speaker 1: like typical like you know Rare are Power zeke Um.
Speaker 1: That would be like, fuck you, this is how it's
Speaker 1: going to go. I was just like, okay, please just
Speaker 1: don't make me look like an idiot. Please just please,
Speaker 1: because because essentially you are at their mercy because they're
Speaker 1: editing it. Yeah, you don't want to say, uh no,
Speaker 1: I'm unhappy with this, fuck you, fuck you, fuck you,
Speaker 1: because again you've signed away your rights to that. So
Speaker 1: really it's sort of like a courtesy that they're even
Speaker 1: coming to ask, because ultimately they're going to edit it
Speaker 1: however they want, right and you just have to be
Speaker 1: grateful and and say thank you. And that's what I
Speaker 1: did for a very long time. And UM, so if
Speaker 1: you're not a Survivor fan, you probably don't know that.
Speaker 1: In UM season thirty nine, which was the Survivor season
Speaker 1: in the Fall, there's a young woman who was like
Speaker 1: repeatedly sexually harassed and they handled it very, very poorly.
Speaker 1: And I can tell you that I was treated very
Speaker 1: differently than than Kelly Kim, who's the young woman who
Speaker 1: had to endure they repeated sexual harassment. I was treated
Speaker 1: very differently than she was, and I think that a
Speaker 1: large part of that is I was always willing to
Speaker 1: play ball, and also I'm white and I'm a guy.
Speaker 1: I think that those play a big role and are
Speaker 1: being treated differently. Anyway, sorry to go on this side.
Speaker 1: I think it's really important because Survived has such a
Speaker 1: general you don't get a more general audience than that,
Speaker 1: so the way that they handle something like that is
Speaker 1: really important. And I also wanted to ask so what
Speaker 1: happened to you? The outing that became a major story
Speaker 1: point for the eventual spoiler alert winner of that season,
Speaker 1: who was Officer Sarah Lissina on Game Changers. She really
Speaker 1: really gave her a moment um to say that she
Speaker 1: had sort of come around and had like now understood
Speaker 1: in this moment of this all happening, and she had
Speaker 1: made a personal turning point. And I think that was
Speaker 1: obviously baked into the edit because they knew she would win. Um,
Speaker 1: what is your opinion of her and the way that
Speaker 1: they sort of gave that moment to her. Um. So,
Speaker 1: Sarah was my closest ally and my closest friend. UM
Speaker 1: during that season therapy. You know, Andrew Belkie, I knew
Speaker 1: outside of the Survivor and we weren't that you know,
Speaker 1: Sarah and I were very tight, I allies on the show. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like I do think that is Um, that that is
Speaker 1: accurate as to how she felt in the moment, and
Speaker 1: you know, we continue to be friends. I remember being
Speaker 1: very perplexing because I I loved Sarah so much. I
Speaker 1: really lobbied hard for her to win, and UM, because
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, we have this like beautiful friendship
Speaker 1: even though we are political beliefs stone aligned and we have,
Speaker 1: you know, different backgrounds. And then I remember she like
Speaker 1: walked into like dinner after the final Travel Council after
Speaker 1: we voted to give a million dollars and she was
Speaker 1: wearing a Maga hat, and I was just like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. But for her, and I think this is
Speaker 1: true for a lot of the police officers I know,
Speaker 1: is that like they have this like this cognitive dissidence,
Speaker 1: this like split in their mind where they can have
Speaker 1: friends who are LGBT, they can have friends who are liberal,
Speaker 1: they can have friends who are Muslim or whatever, and
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, these are good people, but I'm still
Speaker 1: gonna vote for Trump because of these like external political
Speaker 1: beliefs that I have. It's really sort of confounding because
Speaker 1: she gets such a heroic narrative on that show, and
Speaker 1: in season forty she has this big speech about gender
Speaker 1: bias right on and very articulate about it, like has
Speaker 1: this like feminist monologue. And then you're like, but how
Speaker 1: are you how do you not get there? You have
Speaker 1: to think the police officer thing runs deep. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that's really But anyway, I had to ask about all
Speaker 1: about about that because I was, and I really was
Speaker 1: wondering why they didn't include it in disclosure. I really
Speaker 1: was because it was such a I mean, I think
Speaker 1: it was one of the it was so many millions
Speaker 1: of people watching it. But impact was was the scale
Speaker 1: of the impact was significant. We need to take a
Speaker 1: quick break and then ask the question, and we're back.
Speaker 1: So we have to ask our guests the question. Nico
Speaker 1: Let's start with you. This is the question, what is
Speaker 1: the culture that made you say culture was for you?
Speaker 1: This is like the formative thing that pushed your life
Speaker 1: into a cultural direction. Does that make sense? Nico? Um,
Speaker 1: kind of sure, Like like like like a formative thing
Speaker 1: that you probably saw growing up or you read, or
Speaker 1: like a person who you probably sort of uh imprinted
Speaker 1: on very quickly. I would have to say, I would
Speaker 1: have to say, you know, it's the the I'm much
Speaker 1: older than all of you. No, yeah, Um, the Wonder
Speaker 1: Woman TV series with Linda Carter. Yeah, yeah, with Linda Carter.
Speaker 1: So like when I was growing up in the Philippines,
Speaker 1: they would show reruns of it, Um, and I just
Speaker 1: remember as a little kid being so fascinated by it.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, who is the statuesque white lady who
Speaker 1: was fabulous, and then all of a sudden she starts
Speaker 1: spinning and explosions. She turns even more fabulous. I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. I really was so taken by her,
Speaker 1: and the theme song was amazing. Can you perform it?
Speaker 1: Autama like if I? Yeah, yes, fine and yes Adam
Speaker 1: ties andrad there vibrato, vibrato right there. I was obsessed
Speaker 1: with her, so probably why it turned out the way
Speaker 1: I am. I well, I have a question. What do
Speaker 1: you think of the adaptation that is Galga Doze Wonder Woman?
Speaker 1: I actually really like it. Me too, I can't wait
Speaker 1: for the one the second one is coming out. It
Speaker 1: makes so good. Yeah, because I think that's gonna be
Speaker 1: more of along the lines of the Linda Carter because
Speaker 1: in this same era, So I'm more excited for that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's almost like they did the first one so they
Speaker 1: could do the second one. Yeah, exactly that. This is
Speaker 1: the full realization of that. But did that like open
Speaker 1: the door to like other comic books or was it
Speaker 1: exclusively Wonder Woman in Linda Oh no. I was a huge,
Speaker 1: huge comic book nerd growing up. I was like I
Speaker 1: collected comic books, you know, X men, and I was
Speaker 1: like Marvel in d C. I had like signed comic
Speaker 1: books by Jim Lee and Art Adams. I played dungeons
Speaker 1: and dragons. I was like a huge herd growing up.
Speaker 1: And then when I moved to the United States, I
Speaker 1: kind of was like, well, um, I need to reinvent
Speaker 1: myself because I was a huge stork. So what do
Speaker 1: I do? I joined the drama club, which and what
Speaker 1: kind of productions? That just stopped the boards. In My
Speaker 1: first role in Centennial High School in Gresham, Oregon, was
Speaker 1: I was a Naziene the sound of music. I had
Speaker 1: one all blocked the driveway, no command, Um okay? So
Speaker 1: that did it? Did it? Sort of progress into more
Speaker 1: leading roles than junior year, also a sophomore year, so
Speaker 1: I was uh not seeing sound of music. Then I
Speaker 1: was doctor anagnosed in The Miracle Worker, I was Taunton
Speaker 1: Julian and Once on This Island my all white high
Speaker 1: school in Oregon, and of course I had to be
Speaker 1: Once in This Island and there were only three people
Speaker 1: of color in it me that the lady who played
Speaker 1: the moon, the woman who played the soccer moon, was
Speaker 1: piscific islander. Yes, she was okay, um, and then um.
Speaker 1: And then I was not cast in the play, which
Speaker 1: was a huge scandal. I was. I'm still very hurt.
Speaker 1: What was the play? What played? It doesn't even matter
Speaker 1: who cares? And then we did. I also played like
Speaker 1: the Officer and musical comedy Murders. That's a good one.
Speaker 1: And then I was the modern major general in Pirates
Speaker 1: of Penzance. There we go. That's an impressive run. And
Speaker 1: then when I got to college, my acting teacher was like,
Speaker 1: you can't act the ship. You're never going to be
Speaker 1: an actor. And so I switched car and they got
Speaker 1: in your head and that's why you were doing stand
Speaker 1: up saying I can't act, I can't do a sketch
Speaker 1: and so but I blame it on that college. Fully
Speaker 1: fully took their words to heart. And who who else
Speaker 1: who has recently started on NBC heard that same advice
Speaker 1: from that same program, Mr bown Yang, I from from
Speaker 1: from my high school teacher's zeke tonight, did we have
Speaker 1: we been over this? No? No, this is a different
Speaker 1: So I went. I went to college with Darcy Carden.
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, Yes, she talked about this. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think she had a little bit better experience than
Speaker 1: I did, but we were both told by the program
Speaker 1: that so funny, right, And then the first season of
Speaker 1: her show, and it was the second season of Superstore,
Speaker 1: we were she visited his set and we were like,
Speaker 1: can you believe we are on back to back shows
Speaker 1: on NBC and that college in Ashland, Oregon was kind
Speaker 1: of like you guys, and not even that but critically
Speaker 1: acclaimed like Critics Choice Award nominated both. It was crazy.
Speaker 1: It's crazy how life turns out. Okay, honestly, that's gorgeous.
Speaker 1: And now we turned to Zeke. Zeke, what was the
Speaker 1: culture that made you say culture was for you? So
Speaker 1: mine was the film The Three Ninja's. Oh wait, can
Speaker 1: you explain the plot? Because I think I know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. Yes, So the plot is that there
Speaker 1: are these three boys who have a Japanese grandfather, though
Speaker 1: they don't they don't so any indications that they had
Speaker 1: a Japanese grandfather, and they go and they learn karate
Speaker 1: with him in the woods and so they're like these young,
Speaker 1: three young Ninja warriors and their father is an FBI
Speaker 1: agent and he's chasing down an international arms smuggler who
Speaker 1: although he is selling like enough like bombs to start
Speaker 1: World War three. Is protected by a group of like
Speaker 1: guys in ninja suits who are clearly white and carry
Speaker 1: swords but not guns and can be defeated by children,
Speaker 1: and so the like, uh, the the bad guy, you know,
Speaker 1: the arms dealer kids naps the kids, but the kids
Speaker 1: like fight back. Um, and yeah that's the When you
Speaker 1: said this, I was almost positive I knew what it was.
Speaker 1: And I was taken back immediately to this moment. What
Speaker 1: I remember being so obsessed with that film. Yes, I
Speaker 1: um am particularly obsessed with the character Tom Tom, who
Speaker 1: is the youngest of the three brothers, and he likes
Speaker 1: to both eat and do martial arts, which were two
Speaker 1: of my favorite things as a youth. I actually went
Speaker 1: to the Taekwondo National Championships in Orlando, Florida when I
Speaker 1: was about ten years old. Um, because this inspired me
Speaker 1: to uh do taekwondo? Um, the Three Ninjas did, yes,
Speaker 1: And because you know, as a transperson, I did not
Speaker 1: like the name that I was given at birth. And
Speaker 1: when I watched Three Ninjas, I was like three or four,
Speaker 1: and I so hardcore identified with Tom Tom that I
Speaker 1: insisted that people call me Tom Tom for a very
Speaker 1: long time, like so long until people had to be
Speaker 1: like you, we can't call you Tom Tom anymore. Like this,
Speaker 1: honestly call me Tom Tom. Title of call me Tom Tom,
Speaker 1: call me Tommum that I I just remember it was
Speaker 1: one of those movies I think I had it again
Speaker 1: when like I don't know, like the first high School
Speaker 1: Musical came out, but like I remember being like I
Speaker 1: love this and don't exactly know why, but I think
Speaker 1: there is something about like like that like weird boys
Speaker 1: but can take on the world like that. There's something
Speaker 1: about like that narrative which is just like so fun,
Speaker 1: the fact that they were brothers. I just remember it
Speaker 1: felt like more than a movie. It felt like a
Speaker 1: manifesto is really what it felt like. It felt like
Speaker 1: a guide to life. But it's so it's so worth
Speaker 1: going back and rewatching because there's like the dubbing and
Speaker 1: the shitty action and the plot holes. It's still great
Speaker 1: and fun but also has the like it's good because
Speaker 1: it's bad sort of fun. Have you looked for recently?
Speaker 1: Do you know where people can watch it? I actually
Speaker 1: just watched it part of it at least this past
Speaker 1: week because a friend had owned it on his iTunes account.
Speaker 1: How did you of this? He has it on iTunes? Okay,
Speaker 1: gregor you can buy it. I also owned it on
Speaker 1: DVD and would be happy to send it to you. Honestly,
Speaker 1: let's do it because you'd be shocked. Like when we
Speaker 1: had Alaska thunder Funk on the show her, I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey, was I don't think so honey that
Speaker 1: you can't watch Spice World anywhere. Some of the best
Speaker 1: movies of all time, and I do include that you
Speaker 1: can't watch Like Alaska said it best. If you want
Speaker 1: to watch Spice World, you can't watch it. It is nowhere.
Speaker 1: I I owned several DVDs that I bought, like used
Speaker 1: on Amazon, of movies like that, because one of my
Speaker 1: favorite movies before it sort of got like re entered
Speaker 1: the zeitgeist was Dropped It Gorgeous. So I actually owned
Speaker 1: two DVD copies of Dropped Dead Gorgeous. Yeah, because God
Speaker 1: forbid you lose one, at least you have another one
Speaker 1: because you can't watch it anywhere else. Well, now, always prepare, always,
Speaker 1: prep um always, but stretch each day. It's actually a
Speaker 1: local culture. Number one hundred prep each day. But that
Speaker 1: is so those like niche movies that are the best,
Speaker 1: like you know what, you could not watch anywhere until
Speaker 1: recently Glitter, hbo X, I see God Bless And I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't consider Brandy still Brandy Cinderella to be like
Speaker 1: on the platforms because it's just YouTube and it's got
Speaker 1: like the vhs sort of like Patina on it. You know,
Speaker 1: why isn't the Brandy Sounderella on Disney Plus. I don't know,
Speaker 1: We don't know. We simply don't know. And I have
Speaker 1: to say, I I don't have this as my I
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey. But it could be which is
Speaker 1: I like Disney Plus, but I don't think so honey.
Speaker 1: That Love Victor was moved so Disney Plus to Hulu
Speaker 1: because I watched all of Love Victor kind of because
Speaker 1: it's quarantine and I was like, I'll give this a
Speaker 1: shot and ended up really liking it. And but one
Speaker 1: thing I have that's a huge problem is like it's
Speaker 1: perfect for Disney Plus. It's it's just so it's it's
Speaker 1: not like the kid is out fucking he's not doing drugs.
Speaker 1: That their whole problem was, it's not we're concerned about
Speaker 1: the family values of it all, and I'm like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: but correct me if I'm wrong. You can watch Avengers
Speaker 1: and Donalds gets his head fucking ripped off. Don't give me.
Speaker 1: We just watched Avatar on the other night and there's
Speaker 1: like full scenes of war in it, So don't give
Speaker 1: me this family values bullshit. Do you know what I
Speaker 1: appreciated about Love Victor Um Natasha Rothwell, yeah, and the
Speaker 1: movie and the Star of Love Simon. Yes, it was
Speaker 1: In Love Simon and In Love Victor because you know,
Speaker 1: in the movie, the style of the movie and and
Speaker 1: the acting in the movie is very different from the
Speaker 1: silent to acting of this TV show because it's it's
Speaker 1: a Disney show, right, So Natasha like adapted her acting
Speaker 1: style and the way she was it's very different from
Speaker 1: her character like and then she becomes the principle spoiler,
Speaker 1: she becomes the principles her the rhythm, over acting, the
Speaker 1: way she speaks on the show is very disney esque.
Speaker 1: And I love the fact that she tailored her performance
Speaker 1: to a Disney format because you know, you have to
Speaker 1: adapt art, Yeah, and that's actually a real culture number fifty.
Speaker 1: You have to adapt. That's some mark of artist. And
Speaker 1: Natasha and this all goes back to I mean Natasha
Speaker 1: is in wonder woman is in love Simon in love
Speaker 1: mixture insecure, of course, I mean she is. She will
Speaker 1: bring Natasha to you wherever she shows up. She's an empire.
Speaker 1: We have to get her on the show. I just
Speaker 1: want to watch her and everything and every reason truly
Speaker 1: great and has been truly great from the beginning. I
Speaker 1: mean we know from being like you ce b boys,
Speaker 1: but like a couple skate baby, couple skate I did
Speaker 1: it once? Did you ever do it? Seek? No, I
Speaker 1: have a I have beef with stanhod Apps so it
Speaker 1: never works Dan, So there are still some improv beefs
Speaker 1: that exist. Yes, But was he and fancy man? No?
Speaker 1: Dan Hodo coached Judith for a while. But he was gay,
Speaker 1: but he was not out and we did not know
Speaker 1: that we did. We just thought he was a straight
Speaker 1: guy and did you just ask? Okay this because he
Speaker 1: is he is. He is. But we used to like
Speaker 1: he used to come to dinner with us and then
Speaker 1: we would go to gay bars and I would tease
Speaker 1: him about like being the only straight guy in the
Speaker 1: gay bar, not knowing he was deeply closeted and was
Speaker 1: trying to put his foot out the door and then
Speaker 1: he he did not like me regardless. Wow, and that
Speaker 1: from that blackless you do from couples, couple of couples. Wow. Wow,
Speaker 1: I can't believe. This is like the third episode episode
Speaker 1: in a row where I've been like Love Victor's good,
Speaker 1: But here I am. Do you liked it, Nico, I'd
Speaker 1: like to do certain parts? Yeah? Did you watch more
Speaker 1: than the first episode? So did I? Bowen Yang watched
Speaker 1: the last episode the episode and how good is the
Speaker 1: lead actress Rachel Hilson? So I thought it was great? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Are those are the guys in it? Queer Victor is not?
Speaker 1: Victor's gonna have gonna have to hold hold my breath
Speaker 1: on that one. But he did. He did talk to
Speaker 1: his gay cousin when formula right, did you see it?
Speaker 1: I mean there there was, there's there's a there was
Speaker 1: a tweet that compared to headlines from Vulture where one
Speaker 1: was the guy from Love Victor talked to his cousin
Speaker 1: about his gay cousin about being gay, and then the
Speaker 1: other one when Love Simon came out, was guy from
Speaker 1: Love Simon talked to his gay uncle for about being
Speaker 1: it's like, come on, you guys, it's actually wonderful of
Speaker 1: these trade actors that have gay relatives to be represented
Speaker 1: on screen. We need more straight people with gay relatives
Speaker 1: that are distant on screen. As Jen Richards said, the
Speaker 1: word is more right actors with gay relatives quickly before
Speaker 1: we move on to anything. So I don't think so
Speaker 1: many I do want to bring this up. I want
Speaker 1: to talk to Nico about this because I am like,
Speaker 1: I am constantly in an argument with myself in my head.
Speaker 1: It's not even an argument, but I'm just like, I
Speaker 1: hate this thing that Nico. I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: gotten this, but I am like the pincushion in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways for people who just like get in
Speaker 1: my d M s and say, oh, like, what you're
Speaker 1: doing is damn it. It's it's like men's rights activist
Speaker 1: Asian guys who are like, there's this conspiracy in Hollywood
Speaker 1: that it's only meant to uplift queer Asian men who
Speaker 1: are fem fem Asian men because it buys into like
Speaker 1: hegemonic patriarchal idea or like white supremacists, white supremacist ideals
Speaker 1: of like Asian men being these qualitative things in general,
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, but wait a minute. Oh, but
Speaker 1: the line is there's so many representations of effeminine Asian
Speaker 1: men on on in media, and I'm like, wait a minute.
Speaker 1: It took me a second to be like, that's actually
Speaker 1: not true. Like you can count on one hand the
Speaker 1: amount of like Asian man representation, rolls, moments, whatever that
Speaker 1: are actually like outwardly queer, and it's like you're one
Speaker 1: of them. You go, and that's that's great, I'll count
Speaker 1: myself as one of them. But it's like George to
Speaker 1: Ka maybe, but it's like, but it's not this k
Speaker 1: alec mopa, oh we love alia be deep. Well, but
Speaker 1: it's like, it's not this thing that would constitute like
Speaker 1: this conspiracy against Asian masculinity. And first of all, that
Speaker 1: is like couching its own fem phobia, in its own homophobia.
Speaker 1: Are you getting these messages from Asian men? Yeah? Well,
Speaker 1: the thing is like I feel like and you might
Speaker 1: relate to this, and you go, I feel like to
Speaker 1: be a fem Asian guy in entertainment is to get
Speaker 1: it from sort of all sides, or from both sides
Speaker 1: at least, like you get some heat from Asian men
Speaker 1: who are like, hey, you're eroding like these these like
Speaker 1: masculine representations in media, and you're getting from like white
Speaker 1: people obviously. But it's like I'm I'm getting to this
Speaker 1: point where I'm like, it's actually fucked up and it's
Speaker 1: a myth that it's it's just anecdotal. Right when someone says, oh,
Speaker 1: but like it's he's just playing a cliche sassy Asian guy.
Speaker 1: Like how like, but what like tell me what that
Speaker 1: cliche is? Pointny to the actual moment where you saw
Speaker 1: a sassy Asian gay man roll their eyes. Besides, like
Speaker 1: these people that I've named, I do get messages like that,
Speaker 1: um or just like oh like Mateo and Superstar is
Speaker 1: like so stereotypical, and I'm just like, but but what's
Speaker 1: but Like but I'm like that's just who I am.
Speaker 1: Like that's the same. I'm just a fem leaning actually
Speaker 1: the thing about and I truly consider myself like there
Speaker 1: are days where I act more masculine and days where
Speaker 1: I'm a little more feminine. Um and I I just
Speaker 1: sort of like going between. But you know, I mean
Speaker 1: when I'm sort of like in a more excitable mode,
Speaker 1: I I do. I'm just more FAMI leaning, and I
Speaker 1: just hate it when when people are just like, you're
Speaker 1: just playing another stereotypical gay Asian character. At every exactly
Speaker 1: every portrayal of a of a Asian guy out there
Speaker 1: is like a gay Asian guy. Those are the only actors.
Speaker 1: But that's not even true. It's not it's not, that's
Speaker 1: not that's the anecdotal thing that slips in and like
Speaker 1: and like people assume that that's the right thing, and
Speaker 1: it's like, but wait a minute, no, like we haven't
Speaker 1: seen enough. Okay, let's say it is the stereotype, it's
Speaker 1: not being represented in media at least. But the question
Speaker 1: that I hate the most, and I also get asked
Speaker 1: a lot, it's like, are you tired or do you
Speaker 1: ever feel like you're being pigeonholed by only playing gay roles?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, I actually have no interest in
Speaker 1: playing straight roles whatsoever. There you go, I don't want
Speaker 1: to play I just I I just want to play
Speaker 1: roles that there's representation matters. There's so few of us
Speaker 1: out there, and I only want to play roles that
Speaker 1: that look like me, that speak like me, that speak
Speaker 1: to my experience, like, I could care less if I
Speaker 1: don't wear when an oscar for playing the elephant man,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Although you could, I mean
Speaker 1: sure I would see that production. I think is a
Speaker 1: two time Critics Choice nominee. You can go fund yourself
Speaker 1: college theater professor, I have. I do want to ask that,
Speaker 1: why do you think these people are saying that? Do
Speaker 1: you think it's anger that they don't see straight Asian
Speaker 1: men represented, or do you think it's homophobia? What do
Speaker 1: you where do you think it's coming from? My theories
Speaker 1: that it's pure homophobia, But it's like couched and knees um,
Speaker 1: it's it's Trojan Horst in this like thing of like, well,
Speaker 1: we just want a positive representation of Asian men, of
Speaker 1: Asian men who are not like neutered or whatever. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, fair, I hear that, But you have
Speaker 1: you have these representations that you are kind of ignoring
Speaker 1: and racing just to snipe at me, let's say, because
Speaker 1: it's like you're you're gonna like say that like John
Speaker 1: Show and Seemulu and Steve Young and like and like
Speaker 1: Ken John and like all these men like these straight
Speaker 1: as angel who like all like embody some different aspect
Speaker 1: of Asian masculinity that does not fall into a value
Speaker 1: system of well, to be masculine is to be more
Speaker 1: powerful or better or whatever, because I'm like, meanwhile, like
Speaker 1: I'm over here like writing all most of my own
Speaker 1: ship and it's right and it's fun and it's like
Speaker 1: no one's forcing me to do this. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's it's just it's that whole like, you know, they
Speaker 1: want us to believe that there's not room for all
Speaker 1: of us, that there's only room for like one type
Speaker 1: of representation, and that by us existing that we're taking
Speaker 1: up space and taking it away from them. I'm just like,
Speaker 1: we can all exist at the same time, yes, And
Speaker 1: that's at like I feel like like my friendship with
Speaker 1: Joel is like this and like and like my relationship
Speaker 1: with Unicho is is like it's never been like an
Speaker 1: adversarial thing where it's like, well, there's it's scarcity mindset
Speaker 1: and it's not like it's not like we're outbidding each
Speaker 1: other on a house. I'm sorry to bring that up,
Speaker 1: but it's like there's but it's like it's like there's
Speaker 1: that is that is like the thing that you have
Speaker 1: to recuse yourself from to be is to be like, well,
Speaker 1: we're all competing. It's like, well, no, like it's it's
Speaker 1: it's it's amazing when Joel gets something that like has
Speaker 1: nothing to do with me, or might have something to
Speaker 1: do with me. It really, I don't know. We're more
Speaker 1: evolved than we think we are on and that that
Speaker 1: that applies for everyone. That applies for us queer Asian
Speaker 1: people in media, and it applies to the Asian men
Speaker 1: who are like, oh woe is us. We don't have
Speaker 1: enough positive portrayals of Asian and entertainment and different from
Speaker 1: each other. That's the thing. It's just like that, like well,
Speaker 1: you know, like the thing is like you, me and Joel,
Speaker 1: we're probably in this will be in the same audition room,
Speaker 1: but it's like, you know, we're such different characters and
Speaker 1: actors from each other. It's like we could all be
Speaker 1: in the same project and we don't have to be
Speaker 1: like the token Asian and exactly in that project. Nico,
Speaker 1: You're a damn inspiration, secure, damn inspiration. I think it's
Speaker 1: time where I don't think, So, honey, what do you say, Matt,
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, okay, So I don't think so honey.
Speaker 1: Is our one minute segment that we do, which is
Speaker 1: where we take sixty seconds to rail on something in
Speaker 1: culture that we hate. Sorry, we hate um and UM.
Speaker 1: I know that's a strong word. It's a four letter word.
Speaker 1: People don't like them, but that's the one I'm using.
Speaker 1: So I actually have two options today, and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: give you, guys the choice of which one I do.
Speaker 1: If you can believe this, this has never been done.
Speaker 1: Do you want to hear and I don't think so
Speaker 1: honey on kids going back to school? Or and I
Speaker 1: don't think so honey on Haraldo Rivera. Haraldo Rivera is
Speaker 1: gonna less of a downer. I think that's me. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I also think okay, so you would like to hear Heraldo? Okay,
Speaker 1: so this is Matt Rodgers. I don't think so honey.
Speaker 1: As time starts now, I don't think so honey, Haraldo Rovero,
Speaker 1: you clown, your Fox News clown, and you're a friend
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump's. But that's not why I'm coming for
Speaker 1: you today. And if that's fucking saying something because you're
Speaker 1: a joke, I'm coming for you today because you have
Speaker 1: sided with people who think that Gillne Maxwell should have
Speaker 1: been given bail. You can go funk yourself and I
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey. You're a ridiculous caricature with a stupid,
Speaker 1: fucking mustache. But let me say something. Gilene Maxwell should
Speaker 1: be in prison for the rest of her life for
Speaker 1: what she was doing to these girls. But let me
Speaker 1: just elaborate on why else. You're a joke. You Okay,
Speaker 1: they had to kick you out of Iraq when you
Speaker 1: were reporting there because you gave away an operation. You
Speaker 1: drew it in the sand, you idiot. They had to
Speaker 1: During the War of Afghanistan, you claim that you were
Speaker 1: in the middle of a friendly fire and you actual
Speaker 1: we're three hundred miles away. You defended that hour by
Speaker 1: saying that news was a flirt quotea flirty business. You
Speaker 1: said that Trayvon Martin would not have been killed have
Speaker 1: you not been wearing a hoodie. And you literally wrote
Speaker 1: a book called Exposing Yourself. Also, never forget that Bette
Speaker 1: Mitler accused you of drugging her and groping her in
Speaker 1: the early seventies. You fucked shave your mustache. I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey. And that's woman in eleven seconds and
Speaker 1: stop posting our nudes on Twitter. You don't look hot, freak.
Speaker 1: Haraldo Rivera was also a great contestant on The Celebrity
Speaker 1: Apprentice Second Place, You Love to Lisa Gibbons the Queen. Also,
Speaker 1: I will say this, if you go to if you
Speaker 1: go to that wacko Haraldo Rivera's Wikipedia page, it's mostly
Speaker 1: ship that he's done wrong. Yeah, you didn't even get
Speaker 1: to the whole al Capone's vault where he had the
Speaker 1: whole hour special being like, we're gonna open the vault,
Speaker 1: We're gonna open the vault, and then they opened the
Speaker 1: vault and there's absolutely nothing. Yes, nothing. It would have
Speaker 1: been a great area of acoustically singing because there was, honey,
Speaker 1: nothing it was. It might as love be calling my
Speaker 1: damn shower, because the acoustics in that room were amazing
Speaker 1: from there being nothing in it and so that therefore
Speaker 1: you could sing. Therefore you could sing beautiful. And I
Speaker 1: would say that al Capone's vault is like Haraldo Rivera's
Speaker 1: brain empty and its role culture one D and two
Speaker 1: A Capon's brain empty. Love him. I couldn't believe he
Speaker 1: would die on the Hill of Gallene. Maxwell should have bail, bitch,
Speaker 1: not the dumbest thing he said, to be honest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's what sent me off today. Oh I see,
Speaker 1: I see. We were both set off by Glene related
Speaker 1: things today. Really, so you have a Gallene relation. No, no no,
Speaker 1: I'm saying my I didn't think somebody's not goinking about Glene.
Speaker 1: But my the thing I opened with the episode right
Speaker 1: about the Diane Warrnt of it all. Yeah, I mean yeah, Well, honestly,
Speaker 1: Glenn Maxwell, she deserves to be pushed off a red
Speaker 1: carpet by Mariah Carey for the rest of her life.
Speaker 1: I hope that's her punishment that she that she, for
Speaker 1: the rest of her life will be pushed off red
Speaker 1: carpets forcefully by Mariah Carey. Yes, yes, yes, that's that's anyway.
Speaker 1: So at this time we will move to Bow and Yang,
Speaker 1: who has and I don't think so any of his own.
Speaker 1: Um and are you ready Bowing? I'm ready, I'm ready. Well,
Speaker 1: then your time starts now. I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: Instagram features rollouts. Look, I want to be able to
Speaker 1: type in my stories with a Sarah font Honey, I
Speaker 1: want to wait a minute, did every anyone else's notifications
Speaker 1: thing moved to their profile page to the upper right corner,
Speaker 1: because that just they just sort of dropped that bomb
Speaker 1: on me yesterday, and I'm still questions during because I
Speaker 1: don't think so, honey. Well, I'm just having to rewire
Speaker 1: my muscle memory, honey when I want to check my
Speaker 1: notifications and get that um you know, the terrible serotonin
Speaker 1: boost from notifications, And now I gotta extend my thumb
Speaker 1: all the way up to the upper right corner of
Speaker 1: my screen. Instagram features rollouts. I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: I want to be able to put a square photo
Speaker 1: without the rounded edges. I want to be able to
Speaker 1: do all the fun things on stories that I see
Speaker 1: all all the other people doing right now. And I
Speaker 1: can't why. It's blue check oppression, sweetie. I'm being oppressed
Speaker 1: for having okay, and that is the hell that I'm
Speaker 1: going to die on. Stop stigmatizing bow and you. Famously,
Speaker 1: he feels we should stop stigmatizing wealth and verifications. Bowen
Speaker 1: basically metaphorically that that I don't think, so, honey. Was
Speaker 1: this pool isn't big enough. I want them. I want
Speaker 1: blue checks d stigmatized, but I also want to lose mine,
Speaker 1: which therefore implies that I, too, uh harbor some stigma
Speaker 1: towards Blue checks. Well, you've been a little edgy on
Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram lately. I'm not afraid to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: and what do we mean? I mean that you be
Speaker 1: on Twitter? Yeah, and I'm deleting. I'm deleting a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff I'm doing. I'm you are so happy when
Speaker 1: you deleting. The first time I'm tweeting, and then deleting
Speaker 1: is when I'm saying I'm tweeting ship and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't want people to see this. This is stupid.
Speaker 1: I've done it. Wouldn't it be great to just do
Speaker 1: I really, I really just want to. It's a horrible place.
Speaker 1: It's terrible, so bad. Someday, someday I'll pull away for good. Anyway,
Speaker 1: but I feel I needed to like tell people about
Speaker 1: this episode, you know what I mean, because I want
Speaker 1: ever want to hear all this. I want to be
Speaker 1: able to say, you know, in this episode we talk
Speaker 1: about fun things and also etcetera. But like then I
Speaker 1: feel like I need Twitter and then but also it sucks,
Speaker 1: So it's a it's a conundrum, catwo or is that what? Yeah? Anyway,
Speaker 1: we now go. Let's go because quarantine has not been
Speaker 1: kind to my cerebral functions. Um, we're gonna go to Zeke.
Speaker 1: Zeke Smith is going to do is? I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: And if you can believe Zeke, if you're ready, your
Speaker 1: time will start now. I don't think so, honey. Well
Speaker 1: intentioned sist people writing scripts with trans protagonists who asked
Speaker 1: trans people to review their scripts then or but hurt
Speaker 1: when we tell them they did a bad job. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that you want to get write a trendy script
Speaker 1: and win an award on our behalf. And I'm sorry
Speaker 1: if you're too gay, too scared to write your own
Speaker 1: goddamn coming of age slash coming out story and want
Speaker 1: to like remove yourself a step from your own story
Speaker 1: by people. I don't think so, honey. There's a Bechdel test,
Speaker 1: there's a Veto Russo test, and here is Zeke's trans states.
Speaker 1: Should you write a transcript script? Um? Yes or no?
Speaker 1: Are you a person? Uh? You? Does the person do
Speaker 1: anything other than be trans? If no, don't write a script.
Speaker 1: Do you intend for a trans person to look wistfully
Speaker 1: into a mirror imagining there as selves? Then say no, uh,
Speaker 1: do you have five trans people's numbers in your phone?
Speaker 1: If not, don't write it. Are you willing to hire
Speaker 1: me as a staff writer? No, don't write it. Are
Speaker 1: you a large, muscular a current slash former rugby player.
Speaker 1: If not, don't waste my time. If you are that
Speaker 1: rugby player, will you have sex with me and my boyfriend?
Speaker 1: If yes, okay, you can write your script. And that's
Speaker 1: one minute. Zeke, the Zeke test. I believe that that
Speaker 1: test is now in the cannon. It is that tes
Speaker 1: now canonical, excellent and for rugby players screenwriters who will
Speaker 1: not commodify a trans life in their screenplay, please have
Speaker 1: sex with Zeke and Nico. Please you can find the
Speaker 1: lea Twitter. Yes, there you go, reach out, reach out.
Speaker 1: That was perfect. The Zeke test is in is in
Speaker 1: the cannon? That isn't. Yes, let's move on. I just
Speaker 1: I just heard they put it in Webster's dictionary, even
Speaker 1: though it's two words words prepared like, I weed, well,
Speaker 1: you can't it. This is the first time I've had
Speaker 1: notes ever because I just wanted to get correct all
Speaker 1: of you don't stuff, and I'm like, I thought this
Speaker 1: was like a okay, Nico, you and I are the
Speaker 1: are the unprepared Asians and we're yes, that's finvolutionary, revolutionary. Um, Nico,
Speaker 1: I think I think this will be great. You're natural
Speaker 1: performer obviously, so this is Nico sante sis. I don't
Speaker 1: think so, honey. As time starts now, I don't think so, honey.
Speaker 1: That stupid video of the cakes that look like the
Speaker 1: real things and people cutting into them, What it's up
Speaker 1: with that? How dare you slander cakes in this manner?
Speaker 1: Cakes are supposed to look delicious. They're supposed to look edible,
Speaker 1: first of all. They're supposed to look like joyous and
Speaker 1: you're they're supposed to to to sort of evoke a
Speaker 1: feeling of of of wanting to celebrate. They're not supposed
Speaker 1: like raw chicken breasts and a pair of crocs or
Speaker 1: toilet paper. What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Speaker 1: First of all, the focus of the cake should be
Speaker 1: making it delicious, not look like there are things using
Speaker 1: fondant as a crutch. Okayond is not delicious. Just focus
Speaker 1: on the damn cake. Make it moist, make it delicious,
Speaker 1: and make it look like a motherfucking cake. And that's
Speaker 1: one minute. You know what I think, Matt, stop using
Speaker 1: fund as a crutch. That's rule of culture number fifty four.
Speaker 1: Stop using crutch. How do you feel about the show?
Speaker 1: Nailed it? You must feel horrible about seeing all those
Speaker 1: cakes come out so damn bad. Oh no, but we love,
Speaker 1: we love I do love that show. But like you see,
Speaker 1: you see all these like bakers sort of like creating
Speaker 1: these elaborate cakes that look like, you know, like nothing else,
Speaker 1: And I'm just like, that doesn't look good. It doesn't
Speaker 1: look like it would taste good. I was not creative
Speaker 1: in the right way to be to taste good exactly.
Speaker 1: We're doing Keto right now, so cake has been on
Speaker 1: my mind. Oh I'm sorry, but you guys, you guys
Speaker 1: hang in there with Keto. Yeah, but Keto is one
Speaker 1: of the easy ones. Yeah, you can. You can still eat.
Speaker 1: You can dit cheese into hummus and eat that. But
Speaker 1: I want Rice Rice. Can we have a second. Can
Speaker 1: we just take a moment for rice? Rice? Rice transcends
Speaker 1: cultural boundaries. Right, There's there's a rice staple dish and
Speaker 1: every and every culture we love Rice love Rice. I
Speaker 1: want to say, um, I do want to say that
Speaker 1: this cake's discourse is overlapping into deep deep fake discourse
Speaker 1: a little bit. We're being deceived. It's subterfuge. We're you know,
Speaker 1: we're being manipulated by higher powers and and and evil
Speaker 1: forces to mistrust reality. And we got to be careful.
Speaker 1: What's the new show on Netflix? Where the which is
Speaker 1: the cake show? Because there's there's not just nailed that.
Speaker 1: There's also another show. I don't know, there's another show.
Speaker 1: It's like it's called like Delicious Cakes or something. It
Speaker 1: might be Delicious Cakes. Wait, have you guys seen The
Speaker 1: Old Guard? I saw that last year phenomenal. So you
Speaker 1: watched it without me? So I mean this is me
Speaker 1: finding out that bow and watched it without me as well. Well,
Speaker 1: I texted you the other night and I texted you
Speaker 1: there tonight, would you want to watch The Old Guard? Student?
Speaker 1: You did not respond, bitch. I'm making him watch Hustle tonight.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. One of the best started it, but
Speaker 1: then we got sleepy, so we one of It's a car.
Speaker 1: It's Looney Tunes. It's you've seen it before, right, Niko, Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I love it. It's Looney Tunes. It's it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a perfect film. I love it so much. It's so great.
Speaker 1: Speaking of watching things, let me tell you what you
Speaker 1: should watch if you haven't already figured it out. A
Speaker 1: few things, let's talk about. The first thing you need
Speaker 1: to watch is Survivor. Namely, you better go back and
Speaker 1: watch I think the Millennials gen X is one of
Speaker 1: the best seasons of Survivor, and it features an unbelievable
Speaker 1: by Zeke, who was literally voted out because he was
Speaker 1: too good and it's not said enough. And Zeke iconic
Speaker 1: survivor castaway who wore glades and that is representation that
Speaker 1: that's difficult to do. Um Well, most of the time
Speaker 1: I wore my contacts, but then every now and again
Speaker 1: I would wear my glasses because especially the last time
Speaker 1: I scratched my corny at by trying to put contacts
Speaker 1: in my eyes with like sand, and then I had
Speaker 1: to wear my glasses. Oh my god, quickly like how
Speaker 1: hard a survivor? It's very hard, Yes, it is, it's
Speaker 1: very It's hardest thing you've ever done. Uh like like
Speaker 1: within that, you know what I mean, Like like in
Speaker 1: terms of like girl do that is as hard as
Speaker 1: Survivor is. But then like the like amount of time
Speaker 1: around the island. Yes, that's very hard, but then like
Speaker 1: you are tortured, you go through a traumatic experience, and
Speaker 1: it's not appreciated enough that how traumatized you are when
Speaker 1: you leave the island and how they don't care about
Speaker 1: your mental health afterwards unless like you were out it
Speaker 1: or something really really bad happened. Um and then they
Speaker 1: just like say, end you off into the wind, and
Speaker 1: people are fucked up for decades afterwards. We talked, we talked,
Speaker 1: We had party on and we talked to her about
Speaker 1: like just watching herself in the edit. It's it's just
Speaker 1: so insane associative. Um well, anyway, watched Survivor Millennials versus
Speaker 1: gen X, watched Survivor Game Changers, and we of course
Speaker 1: say watched Disclosure Translaves on screen on Netflix. And that's
Speaker 1: not the only things with the people person who you
Speaker 1: can watch. I mean, Superstore was just concluded, sort of
Speaker 1: concluded a tip season. We didn't get the finale. We
Speaker 1: didn't I mean like we were shut down with one
Speaker 1: week left to film. So they literally called us and
Speaker 1: like it's just happening, We're being shut down and Zeke
Speaker 1: and I were already um in uh in Burbank trying
Speaker 1: to go to the Costco uh superstore down so like
Speaker 1: so we we were like, babe, we gotta go to
Speaker 1: the lot so we can clean out my trailer. And
Speaker 1: we went to my trailer and I was like, oh, snap,
Speaker 1: as four rolls of toilet paper in my trailer. I
Speaker 1: dis packed it with me and then we walked around
Speaker 1: and that Hi went. That chant went a week ago
Speaker 1: for a Cloud nine And so that finale was supposed
Speaker 1: to be America's last episode, right, yes, So now she
Speaker 1: will be joining us for the first episode of season
Speaker 1: six and hopefully for the second episode as well. We're
Speaker 1: going to try and you know, give her the proper
Speaker 1: send off that television icon like America. Do you love her?
Speaker 1: She's amazing and she's the best, like everybody in that cast.
Speaker 1: Like I, you know, I I don't know what I
Speaker 1: did in a former life, but truly between Superstore and
Speaker 1: Crazy which Asians, like, those two families that I've gotten
Speaker 1: from those projects have been phenomenal and and I've changed
Speaker 1: my life. So I'm just really grateful for it. You
Speaker 1: just you deserve it more than really anybody, I mean
Speaker 1: God like, you deserve it. And wait a minute, if
Speaker 1: we're move on from Superstore. Ben Felman what a cutie.
Speaker 1: I mean he's like my bigger, my big brother, so
Speaker 1: I don't see him that way, but he is quite handsome. Okay,
Speaker 1: you can think of him. I love that. He's one
Speaker 1: of those. He can. He's one of those. Now you
Speaker 1: put it in my mind and I'm gonna think about it.
Speaker 1: Um okay. Anyway, um you guys, thank you so so
Speaker 1: much for coming and doing the show. I think this
Speaker 1: has been amazing. It's good. I know you too. We
Speaker 1: were looking forward to this truly for weeks and what
Speaker 1: a fantastic episode. We love you very much. We hope
Speaker 1: we see you soon. Yeah, that's you do if you're
Speaker 1: If you guys are down for it, totally do like
Speaker 1: a social distance hand. Okay we've been Yeah, we can
Speaker 1: do Springs week. Oh my god, I was. I was
Speaker 1: just there and it was so nice last week. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think it was about there about three or four
Speaker 1: weeks ago. But it really was just nice to just
Speaker 1: did you get to go to a restaurant and everything?
Speaker 1: Now we just stayed in the pool. Yeah. Well that
Speaker 1: but also like the restaurants were like very much open there.
Speaker 1: I don't know what they're doing now with now that
Speaker 1: California is a ship show. But this was like four
Speaker 1: weeks ago when it was still like sort of acceptable,
Speaker 1: So we would sit very far away with everyone mass on.
Speaker 1: It was just nice to be in a restaurant again.
Speaker 1: You forgot anyway that fucking no, how do we started
Speaker 1: on death and are ending on quarantine? I love it,
Speaker 1: we love it, and but that's that's the grounding force. Um.
Speaker 1: We end every episode with a song, Matt, don't we
Speaker 1: we do? How do get to? If I would? You
Speaker 1: would kind of laugh with that, etcetera. If you want
Speaker 1: to hear that song, listen to the Leanne Rhymes version
Speaker 1: or the Tricia Yearwood version. Nominated for an oscar because
Speaker 1: it was in the movie Conair, which is really yes,