1 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Hello, friends and or loved ones. I am Robert Evans, 2 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: and this is Behind the Bastards, the show where we 3 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,319 Speaker 1: tell you everything you don't know about the very worst 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 1: people in all of history. With me this week is 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 1: my guest Jakis Neil, host of Culture, King's comedian actor, Uh, 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:23,960 Speaker 1: Golden Gloves boxer. No, I did that one last time. Um, hey, 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: it's it's good to have Kis. So this is a 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: show where I read a story about someone terrible or 9 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: that explains something behind someone terrible to a guest who's 10 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,640 Speaker 1: coming in cold. Normally we do like a Gallexadam Hussein 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: or Hitler or something too special for that. No, today 12 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 1: we've got a different one. Um, based a little bit 13 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: on some stuff that's in the news. Obviously, Uh, there 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: are some camps with children concentrating some children who have 15 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: been separated from their families on the border. So I 16 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: felt like now might be a good time to do 17 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards that delves into the history of concentration 18 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: camps because it's a weird and fascinating history, and uh, 19 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: it gets behind several bastards. We will be talking about 20 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: the guy who invented concentration camps. Really oh yeah, oh ship, 21 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 1: there's a deep dive. But he's he's kind of the 22 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,040 Speaker 1: ultimate bast Yeah, he's one of the king bastards. There's 23 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 1: there's so many terrible people, murderers, murderers. Didn't invent murder No, well, 24 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: well yeah, but we don't know who that is. Yeah, yeah, 25 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 1: but the person who invented the concentration calps, he is 26 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 1: in a special realm of his own. He is and nobody, 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: nobody's heard about this guy except for concentration camp nerds, 28 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: like everyone on this podcast is about to be yeah, 29 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: so yeah, I'll get into it all right. So archaeologist 30 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: studying Hadrian's Wall in England suggested that he may have 31 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,919 Speaker 1: found evidence of the first concentration camps and all of history, 32 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: built for captives from tribes on the other side of 33 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: the wall and held as a guarantee of good behavior. 34 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: Other archaeologists suggests these were early refugee camps operated by 35 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: the Romans to protect people fleeing from a societal breakdown 36 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: north of the wall. We'll never know for sure. It 37 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: is possible that various cultures have instituted ideas that kind 38 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: of were concentration camps for thousands of years. There's no 39 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: tracing it all the way back, but we can trace 40 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 1: the roots of our modern conception of a concentration camp. 41 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: And they start with Andrew Jackson. What. Yeah, well he 42 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: didn't invent the concentration camp. But it's important to know 43 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 1: this history to understand what comes next. Uh. Sondrew Jackson 44 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: was born in seventeen sixty seven, seventh President of the 45 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: United States. His father died in a logging accident. He 46 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 1: grew up really poor and really mean. When he was 47 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: a kid, he got stabbed in the face in the 48 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: hand by a British officer because he wouldn't clean the 49 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: guy's boots. Um, he was a salty dude. Uh. Good 50 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: reason to be salty though. Yeah. Yeah, he did have 51 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: good reason to be as he was like starving for 52 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: a long time. His dad died when he was real young. Uh. 53 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 1: He got shot a bunch when he was inaugurated as president. 54 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: There was a bullet in his lung. That was that 55 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: was there his whole life. He he was he was 56 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: just coughing up blood his whole life because he just 57 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: always had bullets inside of him. He was a tough guy. 58 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: This should be a great origin story. It is a story. 59 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: And he probably killed more human beings personally than any 60 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,399 Speaker 1: other president. Like, he shot a lot of people personally, 61 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: not like ordering people to do it. He almost beat 62 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: a guy to death with a cane. He was a 63 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: tough dude, is what we're saying. Uh, we'll probably wind 64 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: up doing the whole episode on just him at some point, 65 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: but right now we're going to talk about his relationship 66 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: to the Native Americans and how that contributed to the 67 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: development of concentration camps. So in eighteen twelve, Jackson was 68 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: elected major general in the Tennessee Militia because we used 69 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: to vote on generals back in the day. Uh, as 70 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: you might guess from the year the War of eighteen 71 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 1: twelve was on. By this point, our history books tend 72 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 1: to reduce that to just you know, the White House 73 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: got burned. Yeah, it was a lot more than that. 74 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: And there were actually a couple of other wars that 75 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: were grouped into the War of eighteen twelve, and one 76 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: of them was the Red Stick War. Have you heard 77 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: of the Red Stick War? Uh? No, it sounds fun, 78 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: doesn't Yeah. It sounds like sounds like cute, It sounds 79 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: like the beginnings of baseball. Yeah, We're seen each other 80 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: for years, and then we realized, yeah, well okay, no, 81 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: it's actually it was a a civil war within the 82 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: Creek Nation, the Creeker and Indigenous people uh to sort 83 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: of like the East Dish United States area, like southeast 84 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: of the US, like almost all the way down from 85 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: like parts of like Virginia down to like Florida. So 86 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: the Creek Nation was a pretty sizeable like Native nation 87 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,719 Speaker 1: at this point in time. UM and the Red Sticks 88 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: were one faction within the Creek and their name came 89 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: from the fact that they carried red war clubs that 90 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: they would beat people to death with UM because they 91 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 1: were pretty tough dudes, and they believed that the best 92 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: way to defend their land from the encroaching Americans was 93 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: to murder them. Uh. They were encouraged in this thinking 94 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: by British agents who wanted to do anything they could 95 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: to funk with the Americans during the War of eighteen twelves. 96 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: They would give the Red Creek food and money and 97 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: stuff and try to get them to work with Americans. 98 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: So a band of these Red Sticks winds up murdering 99 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: two families of American settlers near Nashville. They were executed 100 00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: by the rest of their tribe who didn't want any 101 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 1: trouble with the Americans. But this wind up provoking a 102 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: civil war within the Creek nation. So Jackson and his 103 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: militia wind up on the side of the Creek who 104 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: didn't like killing settlers. Right, they fight a war with 105 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: the Red Sticks. So it's like Jackson and most of 106 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: the Creek on one side and the Redness Sticks on 107 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: the other side. Yeah, and this winds up coming to 108 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: an end in like eighteen fourteen. So Jackson does so 109 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: well in the war that he becomes a major general 110 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 1: in the army. He gets put in charge of Tennessee, Louisiana, Mississippi, 111 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: and the Creek Nation. This meant that he was in 112 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 1: charge when it became trying to negotiate a peace treaty 113 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: at the end of the Red Stick War. The Madison 114 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 1: administration wanted us to be nice to the Creek because 115 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: they met James Madison didn't want to sunk with him. 116 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: But Jackson was like, fun these guys because he was 117 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: a monster. Yeah, So he decides to punish the Red 118 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: Sticks and the Creek who had fought alongside his forces 119 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: like all the same. So he just takes half of 120 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: the land of the Creek nation, Like, so he decided 121 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: he fought yeah, yeah, yeah, he foxed them over to 122 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: he takes twenty three million acres away from the guys 123 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: who've just been fighting with him. Three million acres. I 124 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: can't fathom. Yeah, how back in the day one man 125 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: could have all they were This is like a Kanye lyric. 126 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 1: How could one man have all that power? It's it's 127 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 1: weird just because he didn't die, Like that's a big 128 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: part of it is, like, yeah, if you survived to 129 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: be old enough, yeah, and then you just that's like 130 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: man like, if that's the case, fifty cent ship on 131 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 1: half of America. If nine times and not die, fifty 132 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: cent could have been a president in the eighteen hundreds, 133 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 1: he would have been fucking hard as ship. Ye he was. 134 00:06:32,680 --> 00:06:36,159 Speaker 1: That was the main qualification, was not dying and have 135 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: a couple of bullets in you. Yeah. So the Creek 136 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: nicknamed Jackson sharp Knife because he was a he was 137 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: a dick. Yeah, and Andrew Jackson, you know, gets into 138 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: politics after he becomes a general. H he became a 139 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: strident advocate for fucking over Native Americans. In eighteen twenty nine, 140 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: he was looked at president. In eighteen thirty, he championed 141 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: the Indian Removal Act, which is one of the more 142 00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: sinisterly named eighteen thirty. Yeah, and he delivered this message 143 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 1: to Congress quote, we now propose to acquire the countries 144 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:07,720 Speaker 1: occupied by the Red Men of the South and West 145 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 1: by a fair exchange, and at the expense of the 146 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: United States, to send them to land where their existence 147 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: may be prolonged and perhaps made perpetual. Doubtless, it will 148 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: be painful to leave the graves of their fathers, But 149 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: what do they more than our ancestors did or than 150 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: our children are doing. Now, that's like him being nice 151 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 1: about He was mean but eloquent. Yeah, yeah, he's And 152 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: he said that this policy was not only liberal, but 153 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: generous to the to the what he called them the 154 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: Redman because it was the most racist time that's ever 155 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: been e thirties us. That's like, that's is that before 156 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: the emancipation too? Oh yeah, that's like the slaves And yeah, 157 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 1: it's a it's a dark time in American history. Jackson 158 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: three years later would deliver another speech where he was 159 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: even less nice to the Native Americans and basically said 160 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: that they weren't intelligent enough to have any land in 161 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: an America, and so it was they must necessarily yield 162 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: to the force of circumstances and ere long disappear like 163 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: like they're they're destined to be screwed because we're screwing 164 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: them so much. Yeah, this is a dude. And yeah, 165 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: it's so crazy. It's so crazy. How I know we 166 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: will eventually get to this, But how parallel some of 167 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: these thoughts ye are to our current person in power? 168 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: Or it is is insane? Yeah? Yeah, well, and you 169 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: know it's It's worth noting that when President Trump met 170 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: with the remaining Indian code talkers from World War Two, 171 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: he met them in front of a picture of Andrew Jackson, 172 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: which I didn't know. I heard that was a thing. Yeah, 173 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:44,960 Speaker 1: and because I'm lazy, I didn't read why it was 174 00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: a thing. But now I know. This is why what 175 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: a dick. So Andrew Jackson's any removal policy winds up 176 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: leading to, uh, the eviction of natives from the land 177 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: that he had sort of said that they had to leave. 178 00:08:57,520 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: So his idea was like, we have to push them 179 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: all into reservations. That was the evolution of this policy. 180 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 1: As we kicked them off the lane that we want 181 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,679 Speaker 1: to take, but we'll give them motherland. Um. So this 182 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: is not quite a concentration camp, but there are aspects 183 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: of the process that look a lot like stuff you'll 184 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: see in you know, the twentieth century. So the most 185 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: clear example of that is in the U. S. Army 186 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: was sent to a victim bunch of Cherokee who refused 187 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: to move from the land that they were told to vacate. 188 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: So the army took seventeen thousand Cherokee and two thousands 189 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: of their black slaves because nobody's entirely a good guy 190 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: in the eighteen thirties over um and forced them onto camps. 191 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: Uh So, three hundred or some of them died in 192 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: the camps and then they get marched into Oklahoma, which 193 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: is basically one big reservation at that point in time. 194 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: Four thousand Cherokee die on the march to Oklahoma. This 195 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,599 Speaker 1: is march. That is a long march. I don't know 196 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: if you've ever walked from like Tennessee to Oklahoma, but don't. Yeah, man, 197 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 1: I set out to do it, and I was like, 198 00:09:55,800 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: at they're a block awful. So, yeah, when the Cherokee 199 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: arriving Oklahoma, they're placed on reservations, which is a type 200 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: of camp designed to concentrate Native Americans into a small 201 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: area so they can't carry out guerrilla wars against the state. 202 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: This policy continued until eighteen eighties seven, when the government 203 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: decided that Native Americans had been pretty well beaten and 204 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: enacted the DAWs Act, which split reservation land up in 205 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: individual allotments that Natives could then sell to white people, 206 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: which was basically a way of being like, we'll give 207 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: you a little bit of cash for your land, and 208 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: then you don't have land anymore. Um. And then also, 209 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: did you say that they had already been well beaten? 210 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's just that's a crazy Well, I 211 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: guess we've beat you enough. It worked, is what I'm saying. 212 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:40,679 Speaker 1: Is like the resistance, if you're looking at and this 213 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: is important to understand what comes next. If you're associate 214 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 1: path looking at the US policy against the Native Americans, 215 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: it worked. You know, in the early eighteen hundreds, they 216 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: were a real threat to white people's ability to take 217 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 1: over North America, and this strategy broke them. If you 218 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 1: don't care about human rights or dignity or anything like that, 219 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: it functioned. Uh So, it's terrible, but other people in 220 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: history would pay attention to the example that the Americans 221 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: set in our policy towards Native Americans. Now we're going 222 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: to veer off of North America and were to uh Spain. 223 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: The same year as the Trail of Tears, eighteen thirty 224 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: eight also saw the birth of a guy named Don 225 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: Valeriano Whaler in Nicolau. Uh. He was born on the 226 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: island of Mayorca. Yeah, it is a good name. A 227 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: lot of names for people in those days. Yeah, not 228 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 1: just two or three. Um. So he was born in 229 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: my Orca, which is a part of Spain. He grew 230 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: up with dreams of military glory, but Alas was only 231 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,559 Speaker 1: four ft ten when he turned fifteen. Uh. He listed 232 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: in the Toledo Military Academy. He was below the Spanish 233 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: military's minimum height requirements, but they let him join anyway 234 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: because they just finished having a bunch of civil and 235 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: colonial wars and they didn't have enough soldiers. They were like, oh, 236 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 1: it's okay if you're tiny. Uh yeah, maybe he won't 237 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: get shot shot. Um. He went up actually being really 238 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: good at army stuff. Here in the nicknames Skipio from 239 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: his fellow students, who was Skipio Africanus, was a famous 240 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: Roman general who was really tough, and Whaler had a 241 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: reputation of being really tough, which in those days meant 242 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: you just didn't get sick and die easily, because like 243 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: that was just fucking Europeans. Whenever they would go to 244 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 1: the like half of them would die from the fever. 245 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: So if you survive that, you're tough. Yeah, so yeah. 246 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: Valariano Whaler wound up sent to Cuba in eighteen sixty three, 247 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: where he developed a reputation for being the only colonial 248 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: officer who wouldn't drink alcohol. U Spanish officers in this 249 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: time had a habit of drinking nothing but enormous quantities 250 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: of cold champagne uh instead of water because they thought 251 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: it kept them safe from malaria, kept them safe. But 252 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 1: so he drank water and he was Yeah, he was, 253 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: which made him popular with the soldiers because they didn't 254 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:49,679 Speaker 1: get champagne and it also he was probably the only 255 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: sober Spanish guy on the islands. That's why he was 256 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: so good. That everybody out there fighting wars drunk, it's 257 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: a it's a lobar. He figured it out. Like those days, 258 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: sober and I'm going to kill not blacked out the 259 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: whole time. So Cuba was a pretty chill place in 260 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty three. From the Spanish point of view, there 261 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: wasn't any resistance to their rule at that point, or 262 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: at least not effectively. Whaler's time there started well because 263 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,079 Speaker 1: he won the Spanish national lottery and became super rich, 264 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: which is great. Then he caught the yellow fever, which 265 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: tried to kill him but didn't quite uh and in 266 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: fact just made him stronger. Um so that would be 267 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: a benefit for the rest of his life is that 268 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: he wouldn't get yellow fever again. That fall, as he 269 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: was recovering from the fever, a war broke out in 270 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: the nearby Dominican Republic, which was also owned by Spain. 271 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,079 Speaker 1: The Dominicans had just been invaded by Haiti, and pretty 272 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: much as soon as the Spanish through Haiti back, the 273 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: Dominicans were like, well, okay, now we want to be 274 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: an independent nation and we want Spain gone too. So 275 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: Whyler got sent over to the Dominican Republic to fight 276 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: an insurgency against Spanish rule. He became a staff officer 277 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: and eventually earned a promotion to lieutenant colonel. And a 278 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: bunch of awards for his gallantry. The conflict went great 279 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 1: for him because he got a bunch of awards, but 280 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: Spain wound up losing control of the Dominican Republic in 281 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,160 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five. So Whyler gets transferred over to a 282 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,920 Speaker 1: Spanish embassy in Washington, d C. Where he caught the 283 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: tale into the Civil War and picked up some really 284 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: cool ideas from America. Uh. Which yeah, now this is 285 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: a might not be the idea you're expecting. This is 286 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:18,679 Speaker 1: a quote from the book British Concentration Camps, which was 287 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: a major source for this podcast and will have the 288 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 1: length to all the other sources up on the website 289 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: behind the Bastards dot com. So anyway, Whaler winds up 290 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: in the d C embassy, uh, and he starts reading 291 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 1: about the tactics and hearing about the tactics being used 292 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: by a general named WILLIAMS. Sherman. Uh. In the south quote. 293 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: Not only with Sherman an exponent of brittle warfare, burning 294 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: entire towns to terrify the enemy into submission, he also 295 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: waged a campaign which some thought amounted to genocide against 296 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: the Indians, using this as slogan. The only good Indian 297 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: is a dead one. Sherman harry the Indians mercilessly, seeing 298 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:51,480 Speaker 1: that they were pinned up in camps where they died 299 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: from starvation and illness. Sherman's activities both against the Confederacy 300 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: and the Indians made a great lasting impression upon the 301 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: young soldier, who went on to govern several Spanish colonies. 302 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: So Whaler gets sent over to the US and it's 303 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: like these guys, they're good at suppressing people. Yeah, yeah, 304 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: So Whaler gets transferred back to Spain for a little while. 305 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: But then in eighteen sixty eight, the Cubans decide they're 306 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: not happy with Spanish rule and they have a revolution. Uh. 307 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: So Whaler gets sent over to Cuba uh and fights 308 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: in what's called the Ten Years War, which is a 309 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: war from six sixty eight seventy eight against the Spanish government. 310 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: By all accounts, it was a pretty badass conflict. I'm 311 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: gonna quote here from a book called The War with 312 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: Spain by Charles Morris. That's about the Cuban armies in 313 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: this time they were fighting in Spain. The strength of 314 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: the insurgents lay largely in their horses. They were admirable horsemen. 315 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: Riding like cossacks or cowboys, and far superior in this 316 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: respect to the Spanish cavalry, a few of whom were 317 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: trained to the saddle. Many stories are told of the 318 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: women who wrote in their ranks and wielded the machete 319 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: even more fiercely than the men, and there is little 320 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: doubt that these stories have some foundation in truth. The 321 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: favorite mode of fighting by the insurgents was to harass 322 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: the Spanish troops with skirmish fire, in which they sought 323 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: to pick off the officers by sharp shooting. Then, if 324 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: the opportunity presented, they would dash forward in a wild 325 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: cavalry charge, machete in hand, and seek to wreak havoc 326 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: on the ranks of the foe. Pretty badass. A bunch 327 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: of ladies with machetes kind of horses, yeah, or just 328 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: in general, I just yeah on horses and yeah, yeah, 329 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: it's like wonder woman are the Amazon? Yeah? I feel 330 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: like Danny Trejoe could make that into a movie. Let's 331 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: get a production company. Yeah you hear that, Danny. Yeah, 332 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of ladies on horses of machetes cutting 333 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: up Spanish soldiers. Man make it happen. So Whaler was 334 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: put in command of a six man unit, which he 335 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: quickly turned into the deadliest unit in the Spanish army. 336 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: There were no rules at the time in the Spanish 337 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: military for how to fight insurgeon, so Whaler made up 338 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,960 Speaker 1: rules of his own, the most important of which was 339 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: that there were no rules. His troops were ordered to 340 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: give no quarter to the enemy. The enemy was to 341 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: find as anyone near a combat area, including civilians. He 342 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: became famous for his brutality, and was at one point asked, 343 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: is it true that your men returned from battle holding 344 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: the severed heads of their enemies by the hair? Whaler replied, 345 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: what do you think war is? And war men have 346 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: mean one job to kill? Yeah, you predicted that, didn't 347 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,000 Speaker 1: call that? Yeah, you know, you're get to feel for 348 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: this guy. Get the field the great minds. Yeah. So, 349 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: part way through the war, Whaler gets recalled to Spain 350 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: because there's a monarchist uprising in Spain. The whole eighteen 351 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: hundred Spanish is civil war after fucking civil war. Yeah, 352 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 1: I mean they'd lost so many territories. Yeah time too, 353 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,479 Speaker 1: it's not a great time. Yeah. Uh so, Yeah, Spain's 354 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: having like a monarchist uprising, so Whaler goes back to 355 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: help fight it. He has some fighting outside of Valencia, 356 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: which doesn't go well, but then the general fighting him 357 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: dies and that guy's army sort of falls apart, so 358 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: Whaler kind of wins, and then the government sends him 359 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: next to Catalonia where there's like kind of a leftist 360 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: workers uprising, and he promptly just murders everyone he suspects 361 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: of being connected to the rebels. Spanish citizens didn't like 362 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: seeing the tactics they cheered him to use in Cuba 363 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: being used on them at home, so General Whaler was 364 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: reprimanded and removed from that particularly. This is still four 365 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: ft I think he's about four ft eleven. He grew 366 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: a little bit more, not all that much. Yeah, grew 367 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: in all the blood he's drawn, just standing on it. 368 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: Tiny little man just bathing in blood. Yeah. Yeah, he's 369 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: he's a monster. So his career for the next few 370 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: years is kind of up and down. He served as 371 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: the military governor in the Philippines from eight to eighteen 372 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: ninety one. He bounce around so much in just well 373 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: because they're like, we can't have him in Spain because 374 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: he's too brutal and people don't like seeing what we 375 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: do to our colonial possessions being done in Spain. But 376 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: we need a guy to put down insurgencies, and he's 377 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,239 Speaker 1: fucking good at good at it's just saying he's good 378 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: at it. Charge here, come on over, yeah, yeah, go 379 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: crush these insurgents now. So he winds up in the 380 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: Philippines fighting insurgents. One four month campaign. He succeeded in 381 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: wiping out rebels on the island of Mendano through the 382 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: use of something called trocha, which were fortified military lines 383 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:50,200 Speaker 1: built to isolated insurgents. So General Wayler invented a new tactic, 384 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: which is basically he would fortify towns and villages and 385 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: then he would force civilians in rural areas to leave 386 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: their farms and congregate in those walled rural villages that 387 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: he built UM, and then he would build these like 388 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 1: fortified lines around areas he knew the rebels were in 389 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,479 Speaker 1: to kind of isolate them so you can pin them 390 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: into smaller and smaller areas exactly forced them to fight UM. 391 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: This worked out very well, and in November eight Whaler 392 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: returned to Spain as a newly elected senator. He didn't 393 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: get to spend much time on the job because the 394 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 1: revolutionary workers movement in Catalonia again started threatening to act 395 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,920 Speaker 1: against the state. Whaler arrested hundreds of them. Uh and 396 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: became very popular among Spaniards who weren't angry working class people. 397 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: Multiple towns declared him their adopted son. He was made 398 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,360 Speaker 1: a senator for life and credited with saving civilization from 399 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: the barbaric workers. Uh So now now they so this 400 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: is where we are in eighteen nine when another revolution 401 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 1: breaks out in Cuba, and we're going to get into 402 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: that revolution and the birth of the first concentration camps 403 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: after the break, but before we do that. If you're 404 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 1: anything like me Jakis, talking about concentration camps makes you 405 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: really want to purchase products and services. Meant to buy 406 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 1: some stuff right I'm on Amazon right now. Well, let's 407 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: let's see what things you can buy that are supporting 408 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: the show. Let's do it. We are back. We're talking 409 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: about General Valeriana Whyler uh for foot tage in case 410 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: you In case you say you know what, I'm coming 411 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: to listen to the podcast, but I'm starting that minute 412 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: twenty one. Yeah, And if I want to add, if 413 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: you're coming in to listen to the podcast and you 414 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: are a representative of the Derritos corporation. Let me just 415 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,440 Speaker 1: say we are trying to get sponsorship from Derritos. I 416 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: get eternally sad when I walk into this office and 417 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: there's no cluel ranch der Rito's. I took the whole bag. 418 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: And we're talking about revolutionary movements a lot right now 419 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: colonialism and nothing says fighting colonialism like the taste of 420 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: extreme nacho flavor. I feel like if the Cuban rebels 421 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:58,679 Speaker 1: were about to talk about had had more nacho flavor 422 00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 1: in their lives, maybe be their revolution would have gone better. 423 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: This is the next crash. The Super Bowl commercial that 424 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: Doritos does just said it said it with General Whaler, 425 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: please stop killing us, sir, Look what do you have? Does? 426 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: And then they live in harmony. I think you've Yeah, 427 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 1: that's a solid Super Bowl commercials. The deep cut, deep cuts, 428 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: deep cut. Speaking of deep cuts, all right, so yeah. 429 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 1: In when General Valeriana Whaler was fifty six, Cuban revolutionaries 430 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: again declared their independence from Spain. The Spanish military leader 431 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: in terms of Cuba proved unable to contain them in 432 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: the government begged Whaler to step in which he was 433 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: happy to do, providing the government gave him a free 434 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: hand to do whatever he wanted in order to suppress 435 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: the revolution. So in January six he meets with the 436 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 1: Spanish government and he tells them how he thinks that 437 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: they can win this war. The key would be to 438 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 1: relocate the population. Civilians would be forced into camps inside 439 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: of fortified cities and towns to deny insurgents aid and comfort. 440 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: He put together a team that included several men who 441 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: had served under him in the Philippines and promised them 442 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: that quote, what we became in the Philippines will serve 443 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: us well in Cuba. Ah. Then he promised the press 444 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: that he'd have the situation handled in two years. General 445 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: Whaler arrived in Cuba in eight and at this point 446 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: the insurgents are like at the gates of the last 447 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: city I think was Havana that the Spanish still controlled, 448 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: So the revolution has gone really well up to this point. 449 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: He immediately issues the order all the inhabitants of the 450 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 1: country now outside the line of fortifications of the towns, shall, 451 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: within the period of eight days, concentrate themselves in the 452 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: town so occupied by the troops. Farmers were not allowed 453 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: to farm their land, and their homes were often burnt 454 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: behind them. The camps were poorly built and most of 455 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: the houses had no roofs. No provision was made defeat 456 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: or take care of the captives who were being forced 457 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: into these walled camps. Whaler had also picked close to 458 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: the worst locations possible for the camps, usually low lying 459 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: swampy ground that was a perfect breeding area for disease. 460 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: Whaler called this the reconcentration policy. He named the camps reconcentrados. 461 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: So so that's the start. So that's the start. These 462 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: are the first official concentration camps in human history where 463 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: it's like the you know, they're known by that name, 464 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 1: and it's the same function. The idea is we're taking 465 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: people haven't committed any crime, they're not prisoners of war, 466 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: their civilians, and we're forcing them into camps for some 467 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: sort of political purpose because they do uprise up well, 468 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,440 Speaker 1: and just because also we're worried we know that someone 469 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,800 Speaker 1: is supporting the insurgents, and so since we don't know 470 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,879 Speaker 1: which individual farms are supporting the insurgents, we're going to 471 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,440 Speaker 1: force all of the farmers into these camps. Just so 472 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: that there's nobody left. So by one third of all 473 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 1: Cubans had been moved into concentration camps, between two and 474 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: four thousand of them would die there. Uh, most accurate 475 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: numbers probably three twenty thousand. Here is a picture of 476 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: a man looking at a mountain of Cuban bones while 477 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: wearing a Victorian era suit. We'll have that up on 478 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: the site. It's it's stale. Yeah, that's a real picture 479 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: of a mountain of Cuban bones. It looks like Charlie Chaplin. Yeah, 480 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 1: it looks like Charlie Chaplin sitting on a pile of 481 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: the size of a house. Um. Yeah, it's it's messed up. 482 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: Um yeah, yeah, yeah, he looks great. Yeah, he looks 483 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: like he's on his way to Hollywood. Yeah. So this 484 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,959 Speaker 1: was a bunch of Americans started visiting these camps, including 485 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: like American senators and politicians and like starting an outrage 486 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: about it, being like this is really fund up, what's 487 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: going on? Yeah, this winds up kind of being later 488 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: on one of the reasons we get involved in a 489 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,159 Speaker 1: war with Spain, Like the sinking of the main was 490 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: a bigger factor. Like outside of Cuba, this battleship of 491 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,200 Speaker 1: ours explodes, and we blame it on the Spanish. But 492 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,320 Speaker 1: the main is there in the first case, and people 493 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: are already angry at the Spanish for what they're doing 494 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: in Cuba. Yeah. So one witness to the camps, an 495 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: American senator, described them this way. Uh, it is not peace, 496 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: nor is it war. It is desolation and distress, misery 497 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: and starvation. Every town and village is surrounded by a 498 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,840 Speaker 1: trocha trench, a sort of rifle pit, but constructed on 499 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: a plan new to me, the dirt being thrown up 500 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 1: on the inside and a barbed wire fence on the 501 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: outer side of the trench. These trokas have at every 502 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,760 Speaker 1: corner and at frequent intervals along the sides what are 503 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: called forts, but what are really small block houses, many 504 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 1: of them more like a large sentry box loophold with 505 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: from musketry and with a guarda from two to ten 506 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: soldiers each. The purpose of these trokas is to keep 507 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: reconcentratos in as well as to keep the insurgents out 508 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: from all of the surrounding country. That people have been 509 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: driven into these fortified towns and held there to subsist 510 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,919 Speaker 1: as they can. They're virtually prison yards and not unlike 511 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,159 Speaker 1: one in general appearance, except that the walls are not 512 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: so high and strong, but they suffice where every point 513 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: is in range of a soldier's rifle to keep in 514 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 1: the poor reconcentrato women and children. So what does that 515 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: sound like to you? Sounds like barbed wire fences, guards 516 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,320 Speaker 1: on the outside, concentration. Yeah, yeah, it sounds very familiar 517 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: with like our modern concept of a concertration camp. Yeah, 518 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: which is yeah, this is where it started. So Whyler's 519 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: forces in country managed to drive back the insurgents, but 520 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: the brutality and death of the camps obviously causing in 521 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: a national outcry. Whaler winds up getting recalled to Spain, 522 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: and of course, during the Spanish American War, Spain loses 523 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: control of Cuba. General Whaler uh wound up living on 524 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: though he continued to fight. He fought in a couple 525 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: more Spanish civil wars. He had a long career. He 526 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:18,639 Speaker 1: died in nineteen thirty two. One of his last recorded 527 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: sentences that he ever spoke is reported by a Time 528 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: magazine interview was quote the good Die Young who he 529 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: wanted to be? What was it dude from Ghostbusters? Oh, Vigo. Yeah, 530 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: he fucking was man like. At least he knew what 531 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: he was. Like, can you imagine? Can you imagine being 532 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,680 Speaker 1: ninety two? I'm too young ago, So I think he 533 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,280 Speaker 1: was saying I'm ninety two because I'm a piece of ship, 534 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: like lited a long time as a monster. I thought 535 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: he was saying like I'm too young. No, I think 536 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: he was saying like, I'm fucking old as dirt because 537 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: I'm the worst person who's ever lived. He on his deathbed, 538 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: he was, He knew he was. That's that's what happens 539 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: when you raised hell all your life. Then you're about 540 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: to die and you're like, man, I want to get 541 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: into heaven. All right, I'm save now. Probably didn't have 542 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,680 Speaker 1: killed four people. Yeah, yeah, that was a strategic misstep. 543 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: I look, man, i'mde a mistake, a mistake, you know, God, 544 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: if you just pay attention to the last twenty years 545 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 1: and ignoring those skull mountains, I did pretty good. I 546 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: did pretty good. Pretty good. But he who has not 547 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: built a mountain of bones cast the first bones in hell. 548 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: Yeah okay, yeah, So the first reconcentration camps were a 549 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: political disaster, but they were a military success. Uh, you know, 550 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: he he beat the insurgency almost by the time he 551 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,720 Speaker 1: got recalled. So uh yeah, the first concentration camps work 552 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 1: out militarily, not so much politically, but you know that's 553 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: the history. So in when the British government found themselves 554 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 1: fighting a brutal war with the Boers in South Africa, 555 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 1: they looked at what Wayler had done in Cuba, and 556 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 1: they looked at the American reservation system and they were like, 557 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: what if we give these things to try? Um. So, 558 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: the Bower people in South Africa were descendants of the 559 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,760 Speaker 1: original Dutch colonizers who first had stolen South Africa from 560 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 1: the actual people who lived there before Dutch people wound 561 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: up there. Uh. In eighteen o six, the British Empire 562 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: had taken control of a Dutch South African colony, and 563 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: the Bowers didn't like this. They fled and formed two 564 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 1: independent nations, the Republic of the trans of All and 565 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: the Orange Free State. They called themselves Burgers, which meant 566 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: citizens and makes reading about them sound delicious. Um. The 567 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: Boers didn't like the British coming in and britishizing their home, 568 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: which was understandable. Nobody enjoyed that They also hated the 569 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: fact that the British wouldn't let them keep slaves, which 570 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: is less understandable. Again, nobody's a good guy when you 571 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: go back to these Outba conflicts. Everybody's a piece. And 572 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: wait here did we become good? Did we do that? 573 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: Eighty's and then we lost it in two thousand sixty. 574 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: We had a good though for a couple of y Yeah, 575 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: we were really making some strides man. So yeah. The 576 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: two Bower republics in the British South African Colony managed 577 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: to coexist kind of well until eighteen sixties seven, when 578 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: gold and diamond mines were discovered in the Republic of 579 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: the Transfall. Winston Churchill, who was at this time a journalist, 580 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: felt this discovery made war between the Bowers and the 581 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: British inevitable quote sooner or later, in a just cause 582 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: or a picked quarrel, for the sake of our empire, 583 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: for the sake of the race, we must fight the Bowers. 584 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 1: So war broke out in eight nine, and it went 585 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: pretty well at first for the Bowers. They beat back 586 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: some British armies and they laid siege to some of 587 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: the British hilariously named cities like Lady Smith, which is 588 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: this is a great band name. Yeah yeah, well it's 589 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: I think they're from South Africa. Lady Smith Black Mambazo. 590 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:53,040 Speaker 1: Oh that is a yeah, that is a band. Yeah yeah, yeah, 591 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: what's this? What's that? What's the most popular song that? 592 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: I don't know? I know their name because it's amazing. Yeah, 593 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: well they got that's what they got. Yeah, they got that. 594 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: So listen to the Lady Smith Black Mambazo. I will 595 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: be doing that too after the Black Horse, not acessarily 596 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: like is that it? I don't know. I don't know 597 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: either anyway, hopefully unprepared to joke about Lady Smith, but 598 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 1: it is a fun name for a town. Uh so. Yeah. 599 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: The British Empire obviously was the British Empire, and they 600 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 1: eventually beat these two small Boer armies and by nine 601 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: hundred the British head conquered all their cities and annexed 602 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: all Bower territory. Now, the normal war became a guerrilla 603 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: war because the Bowers didn't stop fighting just because they 604 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 1: lost their cities. They became insurgents. The British commander at 605 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: this point was a famous guy named Lord Kitchener, who 606 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: had replaced a general named Roberts, who had replaced a 607 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: general named red Verse Buller because the class was a 608 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 1: silly place. It was under Kitchener's command that the first 609 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: Boer concentration camps were established. So Lord Kitchener decided that 610 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: camps would be quote the most effective method of limiting 611 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: the endurance of the guerrillas, because they're all these little 612 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: Boer farms, and were the wives and the kids of 613 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: these soldiers fighting the British arming the field lived and 614 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: so they would fight the British during the day, and 615 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: then you just go home at night and get a 616 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: cooked meal and sleep in their bed and then get 617 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 1: back out into the field. So Kitchener ordered that the 618 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,480 Speaker 1: women and children should be divided into two categories. One 619 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: category would be refugees, which was people that they took 620 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: off their farms that the British didn't know had a 621 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: relative fighting in the field. And others were the families 622 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: of Boer soldiers who were commandos. And his idea was 623 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 1: to treat the families who didn't have soldiers fighting the 624 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: British better, but in practice they all get lumped into 625 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 1: the same concentration camps. The Boer camps worked exactly as 626 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: well as the Cuban ones, by which I mean they 627 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: became stinking diseased helpits where thousands died. There wasn't enough food, 628 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 1: there was no sanitation, and because the British had burnt 629 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,800 Speaker 1: all of the farms in South Africa, they couldn't really 630 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: afford descend in any food either. So between June of 631 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: nineteen o one and May of nineteen o two, some 632 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: twenty eight thousand of the hundred and fifteen thousand in 633 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 1: turned people died in the camps. It was about ten 634 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: percent of all the Boers. Yeah, twenty two thousand of 635 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: them were children. Um, ten percent of like the Bower population, 636 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,560 Speaker 1: gets killed in these camps. Uh. There were also separate 637 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: concentration camps the British established for black people cut fighting 638 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: with the Boers. A two thousand one Guardian article I 639 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: used as a source notes about twenty black people also 640 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 1: died in other camps and says nothing else about them. 641 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:20,480 Speaker 1: So I definitely, yeah, why wouldn't. That's clearly they got slavery, 642 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 1: They got enough tap about them. As a general rule, 643 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,479 Speaker 1: the deaths of black people in British concentration camps during 644 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: the Boer war are treated as an afterthought, Like, so 645 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 1: knowledge of what was happening in the Bower War of 646 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: these camps was brought over by like a couple of 647 00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: British ladies who were like Red Cross volunteers who saw 648 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: the camps and went back to England and we're like, 649 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: what we're doing is fucked up. But they would always 650 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 1: talk about the concentration camps for the Boers and then 651 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: like say, I also hear there's camps for black people, 652 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 1: but I didn't go visit any of them, but they're 653 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: probably not nice either. Um you imagine can you imagine 654 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: this time where all this terrible ship is going on 655 00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 1: and people are still so racist that they don't even 656 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: It's amazing because you read about how because the Bower 657 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,760 Speaker 1: concentration camps were awful, and then you're like, but it 658 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: was even worse for the black people, Like, how could 659 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: you make it worse? Yeah, well there's a quote from 660 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: the book British Concentration Camps that explains how it could 661 00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: be made worse. By July nineteen o one, some thirty 662 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: eight thousand blacks were being held in special camps, over 663 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: thirty thousand of them being women and children, thousands of 664 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: black men were taken into the service of the army, 665 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: where others were sent to work the gold mines. The 666 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: white camps were provided with tents, however leaky and drafty 667 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: these may have been. Nothing of the sort was thought 668 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:33,800 Speaker 1: necessary for the blacks, who were expected to build their 669 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: own dwellings. So you've got about a hundred and fifteen 670 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: thousand bowers in camps, who of whom twenty eight thousand die, 671 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: and you've got about thirty eight thousand black people in camps, 672 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: about twenty thousand of whom die on the upside. Eventually, 673 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: word of the nightmarish conditions in the concentration camps did 674 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: escape South Africa and caused a wave of condemnation. The 675 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: British put a guy named Lord Milner in charge of 676 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: cleaning it up and trying to save the people who'd 677 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 1: been put into cam amps. His notes about this period 678 00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: of time wound up getting found just a couple of 679 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: years ago, and they give you a real insight into 680 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,720 Speaker 1: like the British imperial mentality over their own war crimes. 681 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to read this in a British voice, okay, 682 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: so that'll make it more fun. It is impossible not 683 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 1: to see, however blameless we may be in the matter, 684 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: we shall not be able to make anybody think so. 685 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,359 Speaker 1: And I cannot avoid an uncomfortable feeling that there must 686 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,439 Speaker 1: be some way to make the thing a little less 687 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: awfully bad, if one could only think of it. All right, 688 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: I just love the idea, like, there must be some 689 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: way to make this a little less bad, if we 690 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 1: can only think of it. Don't put people in camps, 691 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: don't put bad concentration. That's the way. Don't burn their farms. Yeah, 692 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: it's very simple, actually, yeah, like people yeah uh, he 693 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 1: noted that, you know, when he first got there in 694 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 1: like nineteen o two, they'd hope that like all the 695 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 1: weak kids had died first, so people would stop dying. 696 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 1: But they didn't stop dying. And yeah, anyway, So the 697 00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,400 Speaker 1: board concentration camps were horrible pr just as General Whaler's 698 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,400 Speaker 1: camps and Cube had been, but they were effective from 699 00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: a military standpoint. The British beat the Boers. This led 700 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,680 Speaker 1: the idea of concentration camps to spread like wildfire across 701 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 1: the empires of the twentieth century. So in nineteen fifteen 702 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 1: and sixteen, during World War One, the Ottoman Turks got 703 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: up to a little bit of genocide against the Armenians. 704 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,000 Speaker 1: They killed probably around a one point five to two 705 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: million of them in total. The Turkish government still claims 706 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: this didn't happen. The US does not officially recognize it 707 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,320 Speaker 1: as a genocide because we need our military bases in Turkey. 708 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: But it definitely happened. There's one point one point five millions, yeah, 709 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: something like that. Generally, one point five is sort of 710 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 1: the accepted middle ground. It might have been higher, it 711 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,120 Speaker 1: might have been at lower, but some somewhere around a 712 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,800 Speaker 1: million and a half people um, and there was a 713 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 1: mix of ways. A lot of them were killed through 714 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,800 Speaker 1: mass executions, a lot of them were killed through starving, 715 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 1: in forced marches. Most of them died in what was 716 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,919 Speaker 1: essentially a reverse trail of tears Suman with a trail 717 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: of tears. They started in a concentration camp and they 718 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: got marched to a reservation, and most people died during 719 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: the march. Um They flipped that, so they marched people 720 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,480 Speaker 1: down to a desert around a town called deer Azor, 721 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 1: and most of the people died marching towards the desert. 722 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,759 Speaker 1: Like something like a million people died on the March 723 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: just from executions. They weren't given food, they weren't given water. 724 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 1: It's like the Syrian desert. And then when they arrived 725 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,400 Speaker 1: at de Arezor they were put into a gigantic open 726 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: air concentration camp near the town. Uh. They were forbidden 727 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,800 Speaker 1: food or water and had to bribe their guards to 728 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: get anything. Uh. Roughly four thousand people died in this 729 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,759 Speaker 1: open air concentration camp. It was so many people died 730 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 1: that a visitor to the area in two thousand two 731 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: noted I was shown a piece of land that keeps subsiding. 732 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,839 Speaker 1: It is called the place of the Armenians. So many 733 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 1: thousands of bodies were buried there that the ground has 734 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 1: been sinking for the last eighty years. Human thigh bones 735 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 1: and ribs come to the surface. Um. Yeah, it's bad, 736 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: real bad. A monument. This is our world. Yeah, this 737 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,240 Speaker 1: is the birth of the modern world. This is about 738 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: a century ago. Um, and uh, very important for what 739 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: comes next, because people were paying again, like the figures 740 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, we're paying attention to all of this. 741 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: They were paying attention to America's policy with the Native Americans. 742 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 1: They paid attention to Cuba, to the Boer War and 743 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: to what happened with the Armenians. Um. So a monument 744 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: was built for the Armenian genocide and diraz or isis 745 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: destroyed in two thousand and fourteen. Um. Hopefully it will 746 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,719 Speaker 1: be rebuilt at some point um. The main architect of 747 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 1: the Armenian genocide was a guy named Talat Pasha. He 748 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: was one of the young Turks who had risen to 749 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: power in Turkey during the nineteen thirteen Kup. After World 750 00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: War One, he fled to Germany to escape prosecution for 751 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 1: his war crimes. He was shot dead in Berlin and 752 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,399 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty one by Sgoman, Tillirian and Armenian, who lost 753 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 1: his extended family in the genocide. Sogoman's trial brought knowledge 754 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,879 Speaker 1: of Turkish war crimes and German complicity in them into 755 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: the public eye. He was acquitted the German courts at 756 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 1: the time we're like, well, of course you shot that guy. 757 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: He fucking he was terrible, and he was like carried 758 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,840 Speaker 1: out of the courtroom on people's shoulders. Which is the 759 00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: only happy story we're gonna have on the podcast today. 760 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:05,839 Speaker 1: Savor this for he's a jolly good fellow. So if 761 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: you want you can kind of view, and I think 762 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: it's often interesting to look at ideas as sort of 763 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: like a virus, because you can kind of trace their 764 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: spread around empire stare at history. And if you view 765 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: the idea of concentration camps as a virus, you can 766 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,719 Speaker 1: watch it spreading, you know, from the germs of the 767 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: idea to Cuba and then to the Bowers and then 768 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: to the Armenian genocide and then tell it. Pasha brings 769 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: it to Germany in the nineteen twenties just for World 770 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 1: War Two. So you know what goes great with podcast 771 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: about sad things? Uh? What? Happy things? Like the wonderful 772 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: people who support this show. Oh yeah, let's listen. All right, 773 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,879 Speaker 1: we are back and we are talking about concentration camps. 774 00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,319 Speaker 1: Trying to think of a cute name for that, but uh, 775 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: focus camps, focus camps, even worse, imagination imagination camps. That's 776 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 1: actually scarily close to it. We're actually calling the ones 777 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: that we built for those kids tender age camps. Yeah well, 778 00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: uh yeah, really we probably don't have the flower. We'll 779 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,839 Speaker 1: get there eventually. We're in ninety one minute. So, as 780 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,479 Speaker 1: I just said, the guy who orchestrated the mass open 781 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: air concentration camp in the desert that killed all the 782 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: Armenians gets shot in Berlin in nine uh and the 783 00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: virus is passed on to the next nation that will 784 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: lose it. I'm not going to go into an in 785 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,400 Speaker 1: depth history of Nazi concentration camps here. I'm going to 786 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: hope most of you know that. If not, it really 787 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: deserves its own focus thing. But I will read a 788 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: couple of quotes that point out just how because I 789 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,320 Speaker 1: think one of the mistakes that a lot of education 790 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,279 Speaker 1: on concentration camps makes is that it over emphasizes how 791 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,840 Speaker 1: exceptional they are historically, which is important to due to 792 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 1: some extent because no one has ever killed so many 793 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 1: people so quickly as the Germans did in as camps. 794 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,120 Speaker 1: But they're part of an intellectual tradition that we've been 795 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,720 Speaker 1: tracing throughout the length of this podcast, and it's important 796 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: to understand that at the time, the Germans justified what 797 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: they were doing to themselves into the world by the 798 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,480 Speaker 1: fact that all of their enemies in these conflicts had 799 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: also done it exactly. It's almost like, well, you can't 800 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: tell me I can't do it, only you get to 801 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: have concentration. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So here's a quote from 802 00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: Adolf Hitler, The Definitive Biography by Pulitzer Prize winner John Totland, 803 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 1: which is a fantastic book if you're wanting to read 804 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:38,719 Speaker 1: about Hitler. Um quote. Hitler's concept of concentration camps, as 805 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: well as the practicality of genocide, owed much so, he 806 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: claimed to his studies of English and United States history. 807 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 1: He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in South Africa 808 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 1: and for the Indians in the Wild West, and often 809 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 1: praised to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination 810 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: by starvation and uneven combat of the Red savages who 811 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 1: could not be tamed by captivity. So the German guff 812 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,200 Speaker 1: written the pre war years would generally use the Boer 813 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: Wars camps as an excuse for their own camps. Here 814 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: is a quote from the book British Concentration Camps. In 815 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: February nineteen thirty nine, for example, Sir Nevil Henderson, British 816 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: Ambassador to Germany, had a meeting with Herman Gerring. In 817 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: the course of their encounter in Berlin, Henderson denounced the 818 00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,160 Speaker 1: loathsome and detestable brutalities taking place in the concentration camps 819 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: such as Dachau and Buchenwald. For answer, Garring went to 820 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: a bookshelf and took down the volume of a German 821 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:30,920 Speaker 1: encyclopedia covering the letter K, and showed the ambassador the 822 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,720 Speaker 1: entry for Concentrachenslager, which began first used by the British 823 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 1: in the South African War. Throughout the nineteen thirties, Minister 824 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: for Propaganda Joseph Goebbels had also fostered the notion that 825 00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 1: concentration camps were British invention. Postcards purporting to show the 826 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: grim conditions of the camps run by the British during 827 00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,920 Speaker 1: the Boer Wars were circulated. A film om Paul was 828 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: subsidized by the German government. This historical drama about the 829 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: Boer War suggested that the British army had devised and 830 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: operated the first concentration camps, which we know wasn't entirely true. 831 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,960 Speaker 1: The Cubans had, but this is how the Germans are 832 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,600 Speaker 1: justifying them. Yes, war and with the Americans did it. Yeah, 833 00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,120 Speaker 1: everyone else has done it. Hitler is also known to 834 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,280 Speaker 1: have stated during his run up to the invasion of Poland, 835 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,439 Speaker 1: when they were talking about getting rid of the Polish Jews, 836 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: and people brought up like this is going to cause 837 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,320 Speaker 1: it an international outcry. A sentence he famously is credited 838 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: to have said, is who now speaks today of the Armenians? 839 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,520 Speaker 1: So say that the who now speaks to the day 840 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: of the Armenians. So people were like, what if we 841 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: try to get rid of all the Jews in Poland, 842 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: people are gonna be angry at us. And Hitler was like, 843 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: why do you think anyone's gonna get piste off. Do 844 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,839 Speaker 1: you hear anyone yelling about the Armenians. Nobody. Nobody's angry 845 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:40,800 Speaker 1: at Turkey for what they did. Nobody won't care about 846 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: that until to exist in seventeen when they have their 847 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: parade in Los Angeles, like yeah, so sad, yeah, and 848 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,839 Speaker 1: it causes international outrage, which like you can't you Still 849 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,480 Speaker 1: to this day it's very difficult to film a documentary 850 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: about the Armenian genocide. There was a famous book that 851 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 1: came out, I think of the thirties or forties about 852 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 1: there's this one group of Armenians who like hold up 853 00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:04,000 Speaker 1: on top of a mountain and fought off the Ottoman 854 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,320 Speaker 1: Army until like a French warship rescued them, and it 855 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:08,759 Speaker 1: is this crazy story that people have tried to make 856 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,239 Speaker 1: into a movie a couple of times, and every time 857 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: the Turkish government will come in and say, like, we 858 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,520 Speaker 1: won't take any movies from America period. No one will 859 00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 1: be able to run movies in our country. No Hollywood 860 00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,480 Speaker 1: studio if you make this movie. Yeah, so it's amazing, 861 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:28,839 Speaker 1: how cowardly. Yeah we all uh yeah, yeah, I mean 862 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,879 Speaker 1: even Barack Obama, before he was elected president, talked about 863 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 1: the Armenian genocide and acknowledge it as a genocide. And 864 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 1: then as president he continued the U S line of 865 00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,960 Speaker 1: denying it ever happened, not denying it ever happened. But 866 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: we won't call it a genocide because we need those bases, 867 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,280 Speaker 1: because we can't bomb the Middle East without our basis 868 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,320 Speaker 1: and Insertla, which is where we have our bases in Turkey. 869 00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: So from the Hitler point of view, I think it's 870 00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:54,719 Speaker 1: important just to understand while the German concentration camps, and 871 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,200 Speaker 1: particularly the deaf camps, because they weren't all they weren't 872 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: all the same kind of thing. They were different types 873 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,440 Speaker 1: of camps. Because people died in all of the camps 874 00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 1: but some of the camps, their purpose was not to 875 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,719 Speaker 1: kill people. People just died there because the Germans didn't 876 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: give him a ship. And then like Auschwitz had concentration 877 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,120 Speaker 1: camps in it where people the point wasn't execution. The 878 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,360 Speaker 1: point was a labor camp. It also had extermination camps 879 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 1: in it, but it was a gigantic facility. This is 880 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,279 Speaker 1: the when I because you, like you said, people know 881 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: about that, but I was one of the people who 882 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,440 Speaker 1: lumped it all in and I'm just thinking, oh, it's 883 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 1: just a place where they killed a whole bunch of people. 884 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,719 Speaker 1: And the movie that made me actually challenge that was 885 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: X Men The Last or the First Class. In the 886 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,359 Speaker 1: beginning of the movie, when Magnetos's mom got taken away 887 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: from him and they were supposed to be in concentration camps, 888 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: We're not mistaken. I was like, they all don't look 889 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,040 Speaker 1: like they're there to die, uh and you know, and 890 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:52,320 Speaker 1: but they were taken her away to go to the 891 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: death camp. Yea, to the death camp. And so that 892 00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,920 Speaker 1: made me look into it, like, oh wow, there were 893 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,799 Speaker 1: multiple camps. Well that's good. So thank you x men. Yeah, 894 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: thank you x Men for helping to spread some good 895 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,800 Speaker 1: history there, I guess, yeah, that's that's what made me 896 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: look into it. Yeah, And it's important to understand like 897 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,360 Speaker 1: it is important because I used to before I dropped 898 00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,120 Speaker 1: out of school. The last two years was spent on 899 00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: like Holocaust studies, Like that was the thing that I 900 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,920 Speaker 1: did in college. And it's very important, particularly to Jewish 901 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:23,440 Speaker 1: scholars of the Holocaust, to emphasize how unique the Holocaust 902 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,520 Speaker 1: Wasn't that is important because nothing quite like it has 903 00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,400 Speaker 1: ever happened. But it's also I think important to understand 904 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,239 Speaker 1: that it's the middle of a long intellectual tradition. Like 905 00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,399 Speaker 1: the Germans were pointing to other examples in history when 906 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,680 Speaker 1: they carried out they got it from somewhere. They didn't 907 00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: come out of nowhere. Um, And I think that's important. 908 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:48,759 Speaker 1: They looked at it was like we'll make it bigger. Yeah, yeah. Um. 909 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,719 Speaker 1: It's also important to understand that the Germans were not 910 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,080 Speaker 1: the only people using concentration camps in World War Two. 911 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,840 Speaker 1: The Japaneese internment camps in America were a type of 912 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:00,319 Speaker 1: concentration to Wright in Griffith Park right in Griffith Park. Um. 913 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: They were not as brutal, obviously as the Nazi camps. 914 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:05,200 Speaker 1: But eighteen hundred and sixty two people are known to 915 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:09,040 Speaker 1: have died in our Japanese concentration camps. UH some of 916 00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 1: them from disease, some more old people from heart attacks, 917 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,880 Speaker 1: but some people were shot by American soldiers. UM we 918 00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,080 Speaker 1: tend to use the intern internment camp now, and that 919 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,640 Speaker 1: appears to be the result of a successful propaganda campaign 920 00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,239 Speaker 1: to separate what we did to the Japanese Americans from 921 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: what the Nazis did to Jewish Germans. At the time, 922 00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,399 Speaker 1: though that the camps were proposed, FDR used the term 923 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: concentration camp to describe what we were doing in In 924 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,440 Speaker 1: nineteen forty six, Harold Ike, former Secretary of the Interior, 925 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,239 Speaker 1: said this, As a member of President Roosevelt administration, I 926 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: saw the United States Army give way to mass hysteria 927 00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,720 Speaker 1: over the Japanese crowded into cars like cattle. These hapless 928 00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: people were hurried away to hastily constructed and thoroughly inadequate 929 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,320 Speaker 1: concentration camps with soldiers with nervous muskets on guard in 930 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: the Great American Desert. We gave the fancy name of 931 00:46:52,080 --> 00:46:55,840 Speaker 1: relocation centers to these dust bols, but they were concentration camps. Nonetheless, 932 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,719 Speaker 1: this was not America's last flirtation with concentration camps. And no, 933 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,800 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about the camps we've built for immigrant 934 00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: children in the desert. We're not even there yet. The 935 00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,400 Speaker 1: USA actually tried out the whole concentration camp idea again 936 00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,719 Speaker 1: before that point. In nineteen sixty one and sixty two, 937 00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,440 Speaker 1: the US government began to execute what was called the 938 00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:18,920 Speaker 1: Strategic Hamlet program in Vietnam, which sounds nice like hamlet. Hamlet. 939 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: That's a cute word. Hamlets. Yeah, STRATEGI king, Yeah, it's cute. 940 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,480 Speaker 1: The basic idea was to fortify certain towns, to wall 941 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:32,440 Speaker 1: them off, and to make them defensible in order to 942 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,320 Speaker 1: isolate communist guerrillas from local support. Locals who lived outside 943 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,080 Speaker 1: these towns would be relocated inside the walls. Does that 944 00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 1: sound familiar at all? Sounds like something Cuba was getting 945 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 1: up to. Um exactly, yeah, exactly. It was not as 946 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,160 Speaker 1: that bad, but it was pretty awful. Large numbers of 947 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,680 Speaker 1: peasants were forced from their homes. Many watched as their 948 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 1: houses were burnt behind them. Some peasants were executed by 949 00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:57,360 Speaker 1: South Vietnamese forces, although we have no death toll for 950 00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,759 Speaker 1: this program, as we do for the other camps. Here 951 00:47:59,840 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: is quote from a US military report on one of 952 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: these strahugic hamlets. Unfortunately, the government was able to talk 953 00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:09,080 Speaker 1: only seventy families into relocating into the new hamlet. Another 954 00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: hundred and thirty five families were forced out of their 955 00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 1: homes and into the new settlement. Some came with meager belongings. 956 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,919 Speaker 1: Many had only the clothes on their backs. Their old 957 00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,759 Speaker 1: homes were burned behind them to preclude their sneaking back. Uh, 958 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 1: it didn't work. I don't know, this might be a 959 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: spoiler alert, but Vietnam did not end well for US 960 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 1: or South Vietnam, and this was a big factor. So 961 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 1: number one, it convinced a lot of Vietnamese people to 962 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:35,680 Speaker 1: join the viet Cong because we just can burnt my 963 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 1: house down like I don't I don't like you. Um. 964 00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,640 Speaker 1: And it was also like what started the escalation in 965 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:46,200 Speaker 1: the fighting because the nineteen sixty one, when the Strategic 966 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: Hamlet program started, the North Vietnamese wouldn't attack American military 967 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,840 Speaker 1: basis um. They were considered no go zones because they 968 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,080 Speaker 1: didn't want to escalate ship with US a large military. 969 00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,759 Speaker 1: We're terrifying Uh, they awaited attacking Americans for the most part, 970 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: but that ended in nineteen sixty five after a few 971 00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:06,800 Speaker 1: years of this policy. Um. Now, that Defense Department report 972 00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: that I read stated the inspiration for the Strategic Hamlet 973 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:15,120 Speaker 1: program came largely from the British responses to the Malayan emergency. Uh, 974 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: from nineteen forty eight to nineteen sixty Have you ever 975 00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,080 Speaker 1: heard of the Malayan Emergency? You've heard of the British 976 00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,960 Speaker 1: colony in Malaya? I have that. Yeah. I hadn't even 977 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 1: heard of that when I started this. So you're you're 978 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,359 Speaker 1: ahead of me in that in school? Okay, Yeah, well 979 00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,439 Speaker 1: you're good school because I didn't even know they'd fucking 980 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,239 Speaker 1: been in in what's modern day Malaysia at that point. So, UM, 981 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,600 Speaker 1: the Malayan Emergency is interesting because it might be the 982 00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,879 Speaker 1: one case, it's the only case I've read about where 983 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 1: concentration camps actually worked out really well for everybody, including 984 00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,760 Speaker 1: the people inside of them. It's a weird case study, 985 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,040 Speaker 1: but it's important to cover. So Malaya was a British colony. 986 00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:54,080 Speaker 1: Bad economic programs brought on by bad British policies post 987 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:56,719 Speaker 1: World War Two led to a communist up rising. UH. 988 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: It's called the Malayan Emergency and not the Malayan Civil War. Uh, 989 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:03,479 Speaker 1: due to lobbying from British business owners in Malaya because 990 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,560 Speaker 1: their insurance wouldn't cover war. So that's why it's the 991 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:13,200 Speaker 1: Malayan emergency because like, yeah, which is wacky. Um So 992 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:17,120 Speaker 1: the British called the people fighting them communists terrorists. Uh. 993 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,440 Speaker 1: There were groups of Chinese people living in Malaya who 994 00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,279 Speaker 1: had been trained and armed by the British and World 995 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,040 Speaker 1: War two to fight the Japanese um and who then 996 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,319 Speaker 1: turned their guns on the British when you know World 997 00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,759 Speaker 1: War two ended, which just doesn't sound like anything that's 998 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,720 Speaker 1: ever happened again, Yeah, that was the last time Western 999 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:37,800 Speaker 1: power would have that happened to them. Um. So the 1000 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 1: emergency kicked off when a group of communists executed three 1001 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,839 Speaker 1: British farmers. This prompted the colonial government to suspend all 1002 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,160 Speaker 1: civil liberties and arrest suspects for up to two years 1003 00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,080 Speaker 1: prior to charging them. Despite their harsh methods, the emergency 1004 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,880 Speaker 1: did not go great for the British at first. Their 1005 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,840 Speaker 1: main opponent was a guy named Chin Peng, who was 1006 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 1: a twenty six year old bicycle shop owner and apparently 1007 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,920 Speaker 1: bicycle shop. Owning and running an insurgency are two trains, 1008 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:04,120 Speaker 1: and yeah, worked really well together. You can qualify, you 1009 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,880 Speaker 1: can fix a tire, you can bomb a military convoy 1010 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: um and then get away on your bikey. So for 1011 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,960 Speaker 1: a while the Chinese insurgents were winning, but in nineteen fifty, 1012 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: Lieutenant General Harold Briggs came up with a plan to 1013 00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 1: eliminate the insurgency. So the communist forces during this emergency 1014 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: were largely Chinese, and they received most of their support 1015 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,520 Speaker 1: from ethnic Chinese squatters who lived in slums outside the 1016 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,480 Speaker 1: main Malayan cities. Now, these people, the squatters, had no 1017 00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 1: title to their land, so they didn't own anything, and 1018 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:33,760 Speaker 1: they had no sense of investment in the cities around 1019 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,520 Speaker 1: them or in Malaya as a as a community because 1020 00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 1: they were just considered squatters. So Briggs's plan was to 1021 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,600 Speaker 1: build Walden fortified villages and move some four thousand squatters 1022 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,080 Speaker 1: into them. Based on everything I've talked about today, you 1023 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,760 Speaker 1: might have expected to end in disaster, but it didn't. 1024 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,799 Speaker 1: The camps they built were like large, they were made 1025 00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,880 Speaker 1: out of concrete, They had electricity, clean drinking water, schools 1026 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:59,680 Speaker 1: and clinics, and the British government gave the people brought 1027 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,440 Speaker 1: their title to the land. So it made all four 1028 00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:06,960 Speaker 1: thousands these people landowners. Uh and it worked. So yeah, 1029 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: so it's only it's only that by name, man, I 1030 00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,640 Speaker 1: mean it's a concentration camp. It is the same thing. 1031 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: But it's the most humane execution. Yeah, and many people 1032 00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:20,680 Speaker 1: did did you say that? Did I miss that? There 1033 00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,120 Speaker 1: were definitely some people who died, but there's no like 1034 00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,360 Speaker 1: there's no evidence of like large scale starvation and disease. 1035 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:29,759 Speaker 1: But yeah, like the British did execute people in the 1036 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:31,759 Speaker 1: course of the war. I'm not going to claim that 1037 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:33,719 Speaker 1: like they were blameless in this. There was at least 1038 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,440 Speaker 1: one case where they kill like twenty something civilians. But 1039 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:38,920 Speaker 1: it's compared to everything else on this list, it's by 1040 00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:43,480 Speaker 1: far the most humane execution of the plan. Um. Yeah, 1041 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,560 Speaker 1: and it it did. A lot of Malayans were made 1042 00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:47,719 Speaker 1: angry because they didn't like the Chinese squatters or whatever. 1043 00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,239 Speaker 1: But the insurgency eventually stopped, and a lot of the 1044 00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:53,319 Speaker 1: people who were put into these what were called new 1045 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: villages seemed to think it was a positive step because 1046 00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:59,239 Speaker 1: now they owned land and they had electricity and clean 1047 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,920 Speaker 1: water and stuff. Um. So if the British got concentration 1048 00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 1: camps right in Malaya. If that is fair to say, 1049 00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:07,920 Speaker 1: it's probably because they had more practice than any other 1050 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,640 Speaker 1: people on the planet at running concentration camps. Um. You've 1051 00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: heard the expression that if you've got a hammer, everything 1052 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,240 Speaker 1: looks like a nail. Well, if you've got the British Empire, 1053 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,600 Speaker 1: every problem looks like it needs a concentration can't built 1054 00:53:19,600 --> 00:53:24,200 Speaker 1: around it. Um. The British used concentration camps, like I said, 1055 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,080 Speaker 1: more than anyone else, probably in history, more than I 1056 00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,520 Speaker 1: had ever heard before I started researching this. Um, you 1057 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,640 Speaker 1: don't even that's not something that you even fathom. You 1058 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:37,759 Speaker 1: don't connect your concentration camp. You think Germans for sure, 1059 00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 1: And you know what I mean. Yeah, some people know 1060 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,400 Speaker 1: about the ones that popped up in other countries and 1061 00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:44,120 Speaker 1: thing lack. I know about the one here in America. 1062 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:48,680 Speaker 1: I heard about one in Spain, but not to the 1063 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,040 Speaker 1: scale that this was, you know, like the World Cup, 1064 00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,600 Speaker 1: and it just happened every four years or some ship. 1065 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:58,240 Speaker 1: The British put them everywhere, including on their own soil. 1066 00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,680 Speaker 1: So during World War One, the British built concentration camps 1067 00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 1: for German citizens who had been captured on boats or 1068 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:07,719 Speaker 1: who had just happened to be in England when the 1069 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,560 Speaker 1: war started. Many of these people were forced to labor 1070 00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,759 Speaker 1: in British fields. The book British Concentration Camps points to 1071 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,960 Speaker 1: an article in The Guardian from December fourth, nineteen fourteen, 1072 00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:20,880 Speaker 1: titled disorder at Lancaster Concentration Camp. Here's a quote from 1073 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,399 Speaker 1: the book. The disorder at Lancaster Concentration Camp was dealt 1074 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,480 Speaker 1: with by a bayonet charge against unarmed civilians. On nineteenth 1075 00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,520 Speaker 1: November that same year, protested another concentration camp on the 1076 00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,480 Speaker 1: Isle of Man resulted in troops firing volleys of shots 1077 00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,040 Speaker 1: at the inmates, killing six of them. Among the dead 1078 00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,520 Speaker 1: were two men who had until three months earlier been 1079 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 1: working as waiters and hotels. Later in the war, the 1080 00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,320 Speaker 1: British established the Frogoch concentration camp and an abandoned factory. 1081 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,640 Speaker 1: More than two thousand irishmen were held there. In nineteen forty, 1082 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,040 Speaker 1: with fears of a German invasion stoking panic, Winston Churchill 1083 00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:54,680 Speaker 1: had every German and Austrian in the country arrested and 1084 00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,919 Speaker 1: sent to concentration camps. Here's another quote from that book. 1085 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,759 Speaker 1: To those who reminded him that many of these people 1086 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:05,279 Speaker 1: were Jewish refugees. He responded briefly and memorably, caller the lot. 1087 00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:08,279 Speaker 1: Of course, no one wanted to call these new institutions 1088 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,879 Speaker 1: concentration camps, so they renamed them internment camps to differentiate 1089 00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: them from the Nazis practice. So the British were keeping 1090 00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:20,040 Speaker 1: concentration camps that included Jewish refugees on British soil and 1091 00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,560 Speaker 1: forcing them to labor in British fields the entirety of 1092 00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,800 Speaker 1: World War Two. There were also Polish concentration camps that 1093 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,879 Speaker 1: existed in Poland prior to the German invasion, and when 1094 00:55:30,920 --> 00:55:34,080 Speaker 1: the Germans conquered Poland, a bunch of Polish soldiers, like 1095 00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,840 Speaker 1: twenty thousand of them in the Polish government were exiled 1096 00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,399 Speaker 1: to the United Kingdom. The UK gave them a bunch 1097 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,360 Speaker 1: of land in Scotland, which was essentially treated as sovereign 1098 00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:46,319 Speaker 1: territory for the government exile, and the Poles built concentration 1099 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:52,960 Speaker 1: camps in Scotland the house political dissidents, including Jewish political dissidents. Yeah, 1100 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,759 Speaker 1: multiple Jewish prisoners were executed in Polish concentration camps in 1101 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,640 Speaker 1: Scotland during World War two, more than three thousand people 1102 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:03,640 Speaker 1: were imprisoned and forced to farm in England up until nine. 1103 00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:08,520 Speaker 1: While Nazi concentration camp guards were on trial in Nuremberg, 1104 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,600 Speaker 1: the British were using forced civilian labor housed in concentration 1105 00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:18,560 Speaker 1: camps to harvest their crops. This modern day slavery, Monday slavery. 1106 00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:24,800 Speaker 1: And I could go on there just we may do 1107 00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,680 Speaker 1: a whole podcast someday on just British concentration camps. That 1108 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:32,480 Speaker 1: the champions of the world. Yeah, they are the World 1109 00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,319 Speaker 1: Cup winners of putting people in camps, lord man. Yeah, 1110 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,960 Speaker 1: And there are hundreds of examples from other countries. I 1111 00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:42,120 Speaker 1: didn't even get into the French regroupment camps in Algeria, 1112 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,640 Speaker 1: into which more than a million Muslim villagers were forced 1113 00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:48,000 Speaker 1: to move. There were Spanish concentration camps in the Canary Islands. 1114 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,239 Speaker 1: The twentieth century was the century of concentration camps. And 1115 00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,000 Speaker 1: now it looks like the one might wind up being 1116 00:56:55,040 --> 00:57:00,840 Speaker 1: one too. Yeah. That's that's the sad part is you know. 1117 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,400 Speaker 1: So here here's the thing that's crazy to me, especially 1118 00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:07,840 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff we were talking about earlier, 1119 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,160 Speaker 1: where you have where you know, a lot of these 1120 00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,680 Speaker 1: generals and a lot of these people by name, like 1121 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:19,760 Speaker 1: General Whaler, they were just here, not heroes, but they 1122 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,400 Speaker 1: were like champions of what they did right. And how 1123 00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:25,880 Speaker 1: that's kind of changed today, Like you don't know a 1124 00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:28,560 Speaker 1: single person's name when they're fighting, and you don't know 1125 00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,320 Speaker 1: one person's name from the Iraqi War or something like that. 1126 00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,600 Speaker 1: Maybe you do, but nothing like a General Whaler who 1127 00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,400 Speaker 1: was on the battlefield fighting and ship like that. And 1128 00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:39,600 Speaker 1: it's just so much more diffuse now. Like you'll notice 1129 00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:41,760 Speaker 1: that when it started out, when we start talking about 1130 00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:44,960 Speaker 1: the reservations, their individual people like Andrew Jackson can talk 1131 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,360 Speaker 1: about the role they played. We can talk about General Whaler, 1132 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,680 Speaker 1: we can talk about Tolt Pasha. But the more camps 1133 00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:53,840 Speaker 1: there are that we stopped hearing names just because it's 1134 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:56,600 Speaker 1: just any one guy's idea way of culture. It's what 1135 00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:59,480 Speaker 1: you do exactly culture. It's part of Western culture is 1136 00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:02,240 Speaker 1: putting people into camps. And that's the sad part. Yeah, 1137 00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:07,040 Speaker 1: except now is becoming a name again. Yeah, and now 1138 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:11,040 Speaker 1: we have some concentration camps in South Texas. Uh. These 1139 00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:12,680 Speaker 1: camps did not start as part of a war, but 1140 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:14,960 Speaker 1: they did come out about as an attempted solution to 1141 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,280 Speaker 1: a real problem. Some of this may be familiar to 1142 00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:18,960 Speaker 1: you've been keeping up with the news, but may have 1143 00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:21,800 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve, less than a thousand people traveling as 1144 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,920 Speaker 1: families were caught by border patrol, right they may have 1145 00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,440 Speaker 1: two thousand fourteen. That number had increased to twelve th 1146 00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,160 Speaker 1: eight hundred. Uh. The numbers have subsided since then, less 1147 00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:33,560 Speaker 1: than I think ten thousand last year. But it's still 1148 00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:35,880 Speaker 1: a big issue. And this is not something that we've 1149 00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,200 Speaker 1: ever like illegal immigration has been a thing that has 1150 00:58:38,240 --> 00:58:42,240 Speaker 1: happened or forever. Families coming as groups is a new thing, 1151 00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,920 Speaker 1: and you know they're largely coming because of political instability. 1152 00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:49,240 Speaker 1: You could call them refugees, although we call them asylum seekers. 1153 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,360 Speaker 1: There's whether or not someone's an asylum seeker refugee depends 1154 00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,560 Speaker 1: on the country of origin. Like it's like a legal 1155 00:58:55,720 --> 00:59:00,160 Speaker 1: term um. The Obama administration tried holding entire families their 1156 00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,880 Speaker 1: cases were pending, but that's illegal because of a court 1157 00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:05,520 Speaker 1: case I think from which says that you can't hold 1158 00:59:05,600 --> 00:59:08,080 Speaker 1: children in immigration attention. You have to release them to 1159 00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:11,760 Speaker 1: the least restricted means available. The Obama administration did not 1160 00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:14,000 Speaker 1: want to be seen as cutting families apart, so they 1161 00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,520 Speaker 1: often would just release people. UH. This became politicized and 1162 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,840 Speaker 1: talked about by Republicans as quote unquote catch and release policy, 1163 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:24,080 Speaker 1: and the Trump administration did not want to continue catch 1164 00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:27,640 Speaker 1: and release policy. The result was that between October one, 1165 00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:31,760 Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen, and two thousand eighteen, hundred children at 1166 00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,440 Speaker 1: least were separated from their parents. That's roughly an average 1167 00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,600 Speaker 1: of forty five per day. UH. These children were put 1168 00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:39,240 Speaker 1: in the least restrictive surroundings available to the government in 1169 00:59:39,320 --> 00:59:42,160 Speaker 1: many cases that wound up being tender aid shelters, which 1170 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:44,560 Speaker 1: you've seen on the news and maybe heard the audio of. 1171 00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,840 Speaker 1: H First Lady Laura Bush compared these shelters to the 1172 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:51,200 Speaker 1: internment camps for Japanese Americans in World War Two. They are, however, 1173 00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,920 Speaker 1: concentration camps, as where the internment camps the people in 1174 00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:57,280 Speaker 1: them have committed no crimes and are not prisoners of war. 1175 00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,040 Speaker 1: The Los Angeles Times described one of these facilities on 1176 01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:02,840 Speaker 1: as Ursula. The kids inside it called La Pereira or 1177 01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:06,560 Speaker 1: dog Kennel, as clean and spare, with bear concrete floors. 1178 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,520 Speaker 1: The facilities cleaned three times daily in order to avoid 1179 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,440 Speaker 1: the concentration camp becoming the disease written kind of hellhole 1180 01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:16,000 Speaker 1: that most concentration kimes in history have become. Um. A 1181 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:18,360 Speaker 1: Democratic congressman who visited the site said it was nothing 1182 01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,080 Speaker 1: sort of a prison. Jacob Suberov, journalist who visited, stated, 1183 01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:24,200 Speaker 1: I was inside the building and there are babies sitting 1184 01:00:24,280 --> 01:00:28,960 Speaker 1: by themselves in a cage with other babies. That's inhumane. Yeah, 1185 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,919 Speaker 1: it's it's inhumane, And I think, yeah, and I think 1186 01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:38,280 Speaker 1: what people who are not outraged by this, uh, their 1187 01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,040 Speaker 1: idea is probably what we were saying earlier, how they 1188 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,320 Speaker 1: think concentration camp only means yeah, death, death camp and 1189 01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:47,400 Speaker 1: putting people in oven and we're clearly not doing that, 1190 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:50,400 Speaker 1: and we're clearly not doing that. But you get you 1191 01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,520 Speaker 1: get human beings and kate children. You're ripping them from 1192 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,360 Speaker 1: their families. They're sleeping on concrete like they're not prisoners 1193 01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:02,400 Speaker 1: in there being treated yet worse than prisoner they have committed, 1194 01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,320 Speaker 1: not worse crime. Yeah. So, I mean one of the 1195 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,760 Speaker 1: things that is emphasized constantly by the government personnel who 1196 01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:11,680 Speaker 1: are taking care of these places when journalists will go 1197 01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:14,240 Speaker 1: on tours of them so far, is how clean they are, 1198 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,880 Speaker 1: how often they're cleaned, that their medical personnel and whatnot, 1199 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,120 Speaker 1: and that is true. Like, I can't imagine there's not 1200 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:21,560 Speaker 1: gonna be a typhoid outbreaking one of these places. It's 1201 01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:25,560 Speaker 1: not gonna be tuberculosis. But one thing that is consistent 1202 01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:29,240 Speaker 1: among all the concentration camps pretty much that we've covered today, 1203 01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:32,040 Speaker 1: is that they are breeding grounds for disease. And while 1204 01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:34,320 Speaker 1: these camps that we're building in Texas, that we put 1205 01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:36,320 Speaker 1: these kids in, they're not going to be breeding grounds 1206 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,320 Speaker 1: for physical diseases, there's a lot of evidence that they 1207 01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:43,400 Speaker 1: will be breeding grounds for mental and emotional diseases. So 1208 01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:49,400 Speaker 1: you're fucking these people, Yes, you are irrevocably messing these 1209 01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:54,240 Speaker 1: children's minds. Shane O'Mara is a neuroscientist in Dublin. He's 1210 01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:57,080 Speaker 1: conducted studies on how things like torture affect the human brain. 1211 01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:59,160 Speaker 1: I interviewed him once back in the day for an 1212 01:01:59,240 --> 01:02:01,120 Speaker 1: article I was writing, and I follow him on Twitter. Now, 1213 01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:04,000 Speaker 1: when the stories about these child concentration camps broke, he 1214 01:02:04,120 --> 01:02:06,440 Speaker 1: posted a thread summarizing all of the research into how 1215 01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,640 Speaker 1: separating young children from their parents and putting them in 1216 01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:11,760 Speaker 1: institutions damages kids. I'll have a link to the Twitter 1217 01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,040 Speaker 1: threat on our website. He cites a lot of different sources. 1218 01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,120 Speaker 1: I'm only going to talk about one of those right now, 1219 01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:19,440 Speaker 1: which it was a Scientific American article about the largest 1220 01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,240 Speaker 1: study ever performed on a group of institutionalized children who 1221 01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,840 Speaker 1: had been separated from their parents. Um. This came from 1222 01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:28,680 Speaker 1: back in night the late nineteen sixties. The Romanian dictator 1223 01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,240 Speaker 1: Nikolai Chachesku decided his country and needed more of what 1224 01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,960 Speaker 1: he called human capital, which is people. UM. So he 1225 01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,080 Speaker 1: banned birth control and abortion and created a celibacy tax 1226 01:02:38,160 --> 01:02:41,400 Speaker 1: for families with less than five children. Government minstrel police 1227 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:43,840 Speaker 1: examined women to make sure they were putting out enough babies. 1228 01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,200 Speaker 1: It was a huge success in terms of the amount 1229 01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,560 Speaker 1: of babies increased in Romania, but Romanians didn't have enough 1230 01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,360 Speaker 1: money to support their multiple football teams worth of children. 1231 01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:54,800 Speaker 1: So by nineteen eighty nine, more than a hundred and 1232 01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:57,560 Speaker 1: seventy thousand kids had been handed over to government institutions 1233 01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,760 Speaker 1: and separated by their parents. Uh. This is terrible, but 1234 01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:04,160 Speaker 1: studying those children provided researchers an opportunity to learn what's 1235 01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,400 Speaker 1: separating kids from their families and putting them in an 1236 01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,200 Speaker 1: institution does to developing minds. I'm going to quote from 1237 01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,560 Speaker 1: a Harvard summary of the actual study. The study found 1238 01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,440 Speaker 1: that institutionalized children were severely impaired in i Q and 1239 01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,760 Speaker 1: manifested a variety of social and emotional disorders, as well 1240 01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,360 Speaker 1: as changes in brain development. However, the earlier and institutionalized 1241 01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,600 Speaker 1: child was placed into foster care, the better the recovery. Now, 1242 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:28,680 Speaker 1: the presidents recently promised to put an into his policy 1243 01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:30,560 Speaker 1: of separating families. It's a known how this is going 1244 01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:32,440 Speaker 1: to work, since there's a bunch of problems with the 1245 01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,800 Speaker 1: idea of keeping whole families in detention. That's what the 1246 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,040 Speaker 1: Obama administration ran into. Uh so we don't really know 1247 01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,840 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. Um, hopefully no more kids will 1248 01:03:40,840 --> 01:03:43,080 Speaker 1: be separated from their families, but there's also the case 1249 01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:45,400 Speaker 1: of the children who have been We don't know how 1250 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:46,560 Speaker 1: many of those are going to be put back in 1251 01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:49,160 Speaker 1: touch with their families. When he signed that law, yeah, 1252 01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:52,840 Speaker 1: everybody got it excited, but it was not too It 1253 01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:57,920 Speaker 1: doesn't solve children, and in most cases it really wasn't 1254 01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:02,200 Speaker 1: for anything. Yeah, and it's it's uh, I mean, the 1255 01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:05,880 Speaker 1: broader problem is that we continue to have like none 1256 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,280 Speaker 1: of these people that were putting in camps, because we're 1257 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:11,080 Speaker 1: putting adults in detention centers too, and the adults are 1258 01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,480 Speaker 1: not criminals, they're asylum seekers. There are people who are 1259 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:16,480 Speaker 1: fleeing war, and in a lot of cases, like the 1260 01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,640 Speaker 1: people coming from Guatemala and El Salvador, those are civil 1261 01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,600 Speaker 1: wars that exist in part because the United States funded 1262 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:25,560 Speaker 1: and supported the civil war beginning. Uh, there's a genocide 1263 01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:28,040 Speaker 1: that's been going on off and on in Guatemala for 1264 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:31,480 Speaker 1: decades that we funded and supported, and we executed the 1265 01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,320 Speaker 1: president who led to the creation of the civil war 1266 01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:37,440 Speaker 1: because we killed that guy, and like that's a big 1267 01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,240 Speaker 1: part of this history. So like there's whether or not 1268 01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,200 Speaker 1: the kids continue to be kept in separate camps. We 1269 01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,480 Speaker 1: will continue to be putting families in concentration camps um. 1270 01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,400 Speaker 1: And I think it's worth noting that very rarely in 1271 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,760 Speaker 1: my research did I come across a case where concentration 1272 01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,720 Speaker 1: camps were used by a country who won the conflict 1273 01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,560 Speaker 1: that those camps were built in order to establish. The 1274 01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:03,480 Speaker 1: British Malayan camps worked out all right, but the British 1275 01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:05,480 Speaker 1: lost control of Malaya and they lost the rest of 1276 01:05:05,520 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 1: their empire. The Spanish lost Cuba, the Germans lost everything. Uh. 1277 01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:13,600 Speaker 1: Concentration camps achieved their short, short term goals. They rarely 1278 01:05:13,680 --> 01:05:16,280 Speaker 1: work out in the long run, with the exception of 1279 01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:23,160 Speaker 1: the United States. Wow. So yeah, I mean maybe that 1280 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,680 Speaker 1: that that beacon on the hill. We're number one, yea 1281 01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,000 Speaker 1: or number one? Is I'm putting people in camps and 1282 01:05:29,080 --> 01:05:32,200 Speaker 1: getting away with it. Yeah, that's what power does, man, 1283 01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,640 Speaker 1: That's what the power and money and having a big 1284 01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:39,520 Speaker 1: as military toes well in an ocean in between you 1285 01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,240 Speaker 1: and everybody else except for like Canada. Yeah, yeah, I 1286 01:05:43,280 --> 01:05:51,200 Speaker 1: mean this is I mean, this is depressing. Uh no joking, 1287 01:05:53,480 --> 01:05:57,600 Speaker 1: it's depressing, man, because you know, I think this is 1288 01:05:57,720 --> 01:06:01,120 Speaker 1: something that a lot of people our age or in 1289 01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:06,520 Speaker 1: our generation, we've we've put this out of our history. 1290 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,520 Speaker 1: Uh not out of our history, but it's not something 1291 01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:11,960 Speaker 1: that we think about. We only hear about one kind 1292 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,120 Speaker 1: of concentration camp, and that's Germany. That's toxic Germany. It's 1293 01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:18,520 Speaker 1: isolated in time. There were four bad years and then 1294 01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,000 Speaker 1: it didn't happen again or before, and it's you know, 1295 01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,120 Speaker 1: it's a little sad that people don't know that has 1296 01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:27,439 Speaker 1: happened before. And to hear that it's still happening because 1297 01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:32,640 Speaker 1: you think we've gotten better. Yeah, we haven't. And I mean, 1298 01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:36,919 Speaker 1: I get it. You obviously nothing that anyone has done 1299 01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:39,160 Speaker 1: since has been as bad as the Nazi death camps. 1300 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,640 Speaker 1: But that's a low bar to say, because we're not 1301 01:06:42,960 --> 01:06:48,919 Speaker 1: exterminating people. It's a very low bar. Yeah, man, I don't, 1302 01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,560 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't understand, you know, I I access 1303 01:06:52,680 --> 01:06:58,200 Speaker 1: question before our people inherently good? Are they inherently bad? 1304 01:06:58,720 --> 01:07:00,440 Speaker 1: And you hear ship like this, and you're just like, 1305 01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:06,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I think the answer is people aren't inherently 1306 01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:08,480 Speaker 1: good or inherently bad. People are inherently the products of 1307 01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:12,160 Speaker 1: their culture. And if your culture is one that allows, 1308 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:17,200 Speaker 1: for example, slavery, then people who today might be good 1309 01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,800 Speaker 1: people would think slavery is fine because they grew up 1310 01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,120 Speaker 1: in eighteen forties America. And most people you know who 1311 01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:26,840 Speaker 1: lived in America in the eighteen forties weren't abolitionists. Um 1312 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,840 Speaker 1: or how we redefine what these things mean? Yeah, these 1313 01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,200 Speaker 1: things don't go away. Slavery hasn't gone away. Yeah, we're 1314 01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:36,800 Speaker 1: not in change and being whipped and sold and you 1315 01:07:36,880 --> 01:07:40,760 Speaker 1: know all that ship, but uh, there are people out 1316 01:07:40,800 --> 01:07:43,440 Speaker 1: there still trying to figure out ways to keep people 1317 01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:48,320 Speaker 1: enslaved in different ways, more palatable ways, more palatable ways. 1318 01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,520 Speaker 1: It's like, we have them work in prisons as opposed 1319 01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:55,280 Speaker 1: to plantations, and that's not gross to people. Because they 1320 01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,640 Speaker 1: did something, we could say they did a thing, they 1321 01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,240 Speaker 1: did a bad thing, just like, well, it's not wrong 1322 01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:04,800 Speaker 1: that we're putting these asylum seekers in camps because they 1323 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:09,920 Speaker 1: broke the law imaginary border, which is like, well, I 1324 01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:13,960 Speaker 1: mean if you were holding a Jewish family in Amsterdam 1325 01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,559 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty three and hiding them from the Germans, 1326 01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:20,080 Speaker 1: you were breaking the law. Breaking the law is more 1327 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:23,280 Speaker 1: often a right thing than a wrong thing historically, like 1328 01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,680 Speaker 1: or at least it's fifty fifty. I mean, you know, 1329 01:08:25,760 --> 01:08:28,040 Speaker 1: I said this on Culture Kings. I think we could well, 1330 01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:29,560 Speaker 1: I don't know when this is going to drop, but 1331 01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:34,719 Speaker 1: I said this on one episode. Um that without ethics, 1332 01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:40,479 Speaker 1: laws mean nothing because just because it's a law fifty 1333 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,720 Speaker 1: sixty years ago, it was against the law for me 1334 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:46,679 Speaker 1: to date my girlfriend. You know, it was against Jesus law. 1335 01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:51,000 Speaker 1: But you know that I don't want to hear these 1336 01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:55,880 Speaker 1: laws bullshit because without ethics, laws mean nothing and that's 1337 01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:57,920 Speaker 1: something I try to remember, like you say, fifty sixty 1338 01:08:58,000 --> 01:08:59,639 Speaker 1: years ago. And the way I like to think about 1339 01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,280 Speaker 1: it is I walked past someone on the street today 1340 01:09:02,320 --> 01:09:03,880 Speaker 1: who can remember when it would have been illegal for 1341 01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:09,000 Speaker 1: you today. Your like that, Yeah, I mean like, yeah, 1342 01:09:09,080 --> 01:09:12,280 Speaker 1: are are there many survivors still left? Not many, there's 1343 01:09:12,280 --> 01:09:16,599 Speaker 1: a few, But people don't understand the connection is still there. 1344 01:09:17,360 --> 01:09:22,320 Speaker 1: Even if my grandmother doesn't remember slavery, for instance, somebody 1345 01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,759 Speaker 1: very close to her immediate family does. Yeah, they're passed away, 1346 01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:29,439 Speaker 1: but that connection is still there. Her mom had a 1347 01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:33,720 Speaker 1: mom who was a slavey, or somebody who was in 1348 01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:38,640 Speaker 1: those death camps, had somebody connected to their generation or 1349 01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:41,280 Speaker 1: connected to their family who was in there. And the 1350 01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:44,160 Speaker 1: fact that we don't learn from that ship and we 1351 01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:50,439 Speaker 1: don't try to change, and we aren't uproaris we should 1352 01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:52,920 Speaker 1: like that. I don't even I can't even really put 1353 01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,439 Speaker 1: it into words, how saiding it is. And I think 1354 01:09:56,479 --> 01:09:59,200 Speaker 1: there's a mistake. I think when people fight against this stuff, 1355 01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,000 Speaker 1: which any kind of thing you're trying to do to 1356 01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,920 Speaker 1: fight against this fucking policy border is good, but I 1357 01:10:03,960 --> 01:10:06,679 Speaker 1: think people focus too much on changing the laws, which 1358 01:10:06,720 --> 01:10:09,479 Speaker 1: it doesn't. It's the culture that has and it's that's 1359 01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,280 Speaker 1: why I think the people who are doing stuff like 1360 01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,320 Speaker 1: up in Portland blockading the ICE headquarters and stopping the 1361 01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:17,759 Speaker 1: ICE employees from leaving at night to see their families, 1362 01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:22,639 Speaker 1: or chasing down the Department of Health and Human Services 1363 01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,680 Speaker 1: secretary at a Mexican restaurant, or finding Stephen Miller when 1364 01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:28,120 Speaker 1: he's eating and like screaming at them and calling them 1365 01:10:28,160 --> 01:10:33,200 Speaker 1: like that almost does more good than fighting. Like, obviously 1366 01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:35,000 Speaker 1: it's important to fight in the courts and stuff, but 1367 01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:38,599 Speaker 1: making it clear that as a culture we're not fucking 1368 01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:43,439 Speaker 1: cool with this, that's the most important thing. Because everything 1369 01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,840 Speaker 1: spawns from the culture. And when we elected Trump, it 1370 01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,040 Speaker 1: was assigned to certain elements within our culture that things 1371 01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:51,880 Speaker 1: are going to roll back. And if we don't want 1372 01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,080 Speaker 1: things to roll back to fifty sixty years ago, like 1373 01:10:55,160 --> 01:11:00,240 Speaker 1: we have to fucking like it starts with shame and 1374 01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:04,040 Speaker 1: screaming and being really angry. Yeah, yeah, Do you know 1375 01:11:04,240 --> 01:11:07,000 Speaker 1: in your research, did you ever see if there was 1376 01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,160 Speaker 1: have there ever been any more concentration camps in Germany? Um, 1377 01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:13,840 Speaker 1: not that I'm aware. I mean, well, okay, so there 1378 01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:17,559 Speaker 1: were camps operated by the Soviet Union in parts of Germany, 1379 01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:20,080 Speaker 1: like Saxenhausen, which is a camp outside of Berlin that 1380 01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,360 Speaker 1: was a concentration camp for primarily Jewish people and political 1381 01:11:23,439 --> 01:11:26,080 Speaker 1: prisoners in some POWs during World War Two that the 1382 01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,400 Speaker 1: Nazis operated. When the Russians liberated it, they just filled 1383 01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:32,400 Speaker 1: it up with their prisoners. Um, and I didn't. I 1384 01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:35,240 Speaker 1: didn't talk about the Russian gulags, which you could you 1385 01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:39,360 Speaker 1: might argue, should be on a concentration camp podcast. The 1386 01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:41,240 Speaker 1: people who were put in the gulags had all been 1387 01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:43,880 Speaker 1: convicted of a crime, and those crimes were usually bullshit, 1388 01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:46,920 Speaker 1: because the Soviet Union was just throwing everybody who they 1389 01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:48,640 Speaker 1: defined as an enemy out of the camps. But it 1390 01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,320 Speaker 1: was different than just we're going to lock up all 1391 01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:53,360 Speaker 1: these women and children who have actually who have not. 1392 01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:55,960 Speaker 1: We're not even saying they've committed a crime. We just 1393 01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,280 Speaker 1: need to put them in a camp. Which is why 1394 01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,760 Speaker 1: I've separated the two. Which is not to say we 1395 01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,519 Speaker 1: won't cover goologs at some point, But yeah, there there 1396 01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:06,439 Speaker 1: were camps that you could call a concentration camp that 1397 01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,519 Speaker 1: we're in Germany post towards not really deaf camps though, 1398 01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:14,000 Speaker 1: nothing to that extreme. And you don't hear about them much. Yeah, 1399 01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:16,000 Speaker 1: and it's I mean, there's not as much because like 1400 01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:19,000 Speaker 1: we're only starting to understand in the last ten or 1401 01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:21,280 Speaker 1: fifteen years getting a good idea of how the Goologs 1402 01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,360 Speaker 1: and Russia really worked, because you know, it's very recently 1403 01:12:24,439 --> 01:12:26,840 Speaker 1: that those archives got open to the world. So yeah, 1404 01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:32,920 Speaker 1: here's the thing. I, as a black man, can't say 1405 01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:38,960 Speaker 1: there's something changing, and I can feel it because people 1406 01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:41,760 Speaker 1: have been asking for this change for decades, you know, 1407 01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:44,519 Speaker 1: the change and the way people think and how you 1408 01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:48,160 Speaker 1: treat people and stuff like that. What I can say 1409 01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:53,360 Speaker 1: is the generation we're in where everything is loud and 1410 01:12:53,520 --> 01:13:00,160 Speaker 1: visible is helping. Yeah, because people have an outlet too 1411 01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:05,040 Speaker 1: instantly tell you how they feel about something, and they 1412 01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:09,200 Speaker 1: have an outlet to instantly show you what's wrong. And 1413 01:13:09,240 --> 01:13:10,640 Speaker 1: even though we live in like a twenty four hour 1414 01:13:10,760 --> 01:13:14,880 Speaker 1: news cycle, I do think that the fact that things 1415 01:13:14,960 --> 01:13:17,560 Speaker 1: are just so in our face and so instant, and 1416 01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,120 Speaker 1: we see them coming back to back to back to back, 1417 01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:26,120 Speaker 1: that something hopefully will change to the point that are 1418 01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:30,080 Speaker 1: hopefully our kids and their kids I don't have to 1419 01:13:30,160 --> 01:13:33,280 Speaker 1: deal with this ship like anymore. I think that there's 1420 01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:36,320 Speaker 1: there's a different story running through you know the podcast 1421 01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:38,200 Speaker 1: they just delivered the story of the concentration camp. There 1422 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,560 Speaker 1: is a more uplifting story, which is the story of 1423 01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:43,479 Speaker 1: you look back at when we were putting Indians on 1424 01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,280 Speaker 1: reservations in marching and and exit and carrying out, you know, 1425 01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,400 Speaker 1: genocidal acts. There wasn't it wasn't a single genocide against 1426 01:13:49,400 --> 01:13:51,479 Speaker 1: the Native Americans. There was a bunch of different genocidal 1427 01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,920 Speaker 1: acts against specific tribes. But you listen to how Andrew 1428 01:13:55,000 --> 01:13:56,960 Speaker 1: Jackson talked about them, and he didn't talk about them 1429 01:13:57,000 --> 01:13:59,519 Speaker 1: like they were human beings. And I don't think you 1430 01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,000 Speaker 1: go back to the eighteen hundreds, the early eighteen hundreds 1431 01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:04,720 Speaker 1: and you go to a person in England or a 1432 01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,080 Speaker 1: person in France, and you say like, hey, this guy 1433 01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:09,040 Speaker 1: over in China, this guy over in Africa, this guy, 1434 01:14:09,080 --> 01:14:11,439 Speaker 1: are they all human beings? Most people would say no. 1435 01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,160 Speaker 1: Most people would say they're different, They're not the same, 1436 01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:17,240 Speaker 1: They're not as human as I am, right, And that's 1437 01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:20,120 Speaker 1: why you can justify stuff like slavery and stuff like 1438 01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,200 Speaker 1: the slaughter and the congo. But throughout this story where 1439 01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,280 Speaker 1: you've got all these concentration camps, you also have people 1440 01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,240 Speaker 1: getting outraged about them, and that growing. You know, it 1441 01:14:28,400 --> 01:14:30,719 Speaker 1: starts with the outrage against Cuba, and then they're outrage 1442 01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:32,679 Speaker 1: at the boers, and then it hits a fucking fever 1443 01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,400 Speaker 1: pitch at the outrage over the German concentration camps, which 1444 01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:39,280 Speaker 1: is why everyone starts finding new names for these things 1445 01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:41,840 Speaker 1: after that, and why they stopped killing so many people 1446 01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,560 Speaker 1: in them. Um. And so the uplifting story in this 1447 01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,000 Speaker 1: dark story of concentration camps is that now we're at 1448 01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:49,800 Speaker 1: a point where you go anywhere in the world. You 1449 01:14:49,960 --> 01:14:52,240 Speaker 1: go to China, you go to the British England, you 1450 01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,679 Speaker 1: go to Zaire, whatever, you talk to an average person 1451 01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:56,200 Speaker 1: on the street and you say, hey, this guy half 1452 01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:58,240 Speaker 1: a world awaite, is he a human being the same 1453 01:14:58,280 --> 01:15:00,639 Speaker 1: as you? Now, I think most people say yeah, yeah, 1454 01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:04,880 Speaker 1: And that's like, yeah, that's the uplifting part. And I 1455 01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:07,519 Speaker 1: think that's kind of what I was trying to allude to, 1456 01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:12,240 Speaker 1: is there's been outrage yeah before, it's just our outrage 1457 01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:17,200 Speaker 1: is growing because we can connect our outrage to somebody 1458 01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:21,840 Speaker 1: across the world almost instantly. Yeah. Um, So we don't 1459 01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:23,960 Speaker 1: need to just be in the same room to say, hey, 1460 01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:27,120 Speaker 1: are you outraged? Yeah, I'm outraged too. Now we can see, 1461 01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:29,559 Speaker 1: oh man, there are people all around this world who 1462 01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,599 Speaker 1: are outraged about this. We're gonna do something about it. Uh. 1463 01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,920 Speaker 1: And we're emboldened to do something about it. Unfortunately, the 1464 01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:41,960 Speaker 1: other side is also emboldened. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, and that's yeah. 1465 01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,200 Speaker 1: But let's end on the uplifting note of be emboldened. 1466 01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:48,200 Speaker 1: Do something about it. Go join a protest, your local 1467 01:15:48,280 --> 01:15:52,960 Speaker 1: ICE headquarters, do something. Yeah, don't listen. This is a 1468 01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,640 Speaker 1: This is a great service that you have done with 1469 01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,360 Speaker 1: just bringing a lot of this stuff to light, because 1470 01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:00,639 Speaker 1: I know there's going to be a lot of people 1471 01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,560 Speaker 1: who listen to this right now who're like, damn, I 1472 01:16:03,640 --> 01:16:05,360 Speaker 1: didn't know. I didn't know that. I didn't know the 1473 01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:08,080 Speaker 1: British that we're putting people in camps while they were 1474 01:16:08,160 --> 01:16:11,200 Speaker 1: fighting the Germans. Yeah, and and and they won't look 1475 01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:13,320 Speaker 1: at this as just a senior moment in history, but 1476 01:16:13,439 --> 01:16:17,120 Speaker 1: instead a part of our culture. Yeah, and realize that 1477 01:16:17,200 --> 01:16:19,280 Speaker 1: this is a part of our culture that needs to change. Yeah. 1478 01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:22,920 Speaker 1: So this is the first step. If you don't know 1479 01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:24,760 Speaker 1: about this, this is the first step. Now you know, 1480 01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,360 Speaker 1: I'll do something, Yeah, do something about it? All right. Yeah, 1481 01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:33,680 Speaker 1: that's a good note. Uh, you want to plug your 1482 01:16:34,720 --> 01:16:38,720 Speaker 1: uh plug my plug doubles. Oh man, that sounds bad. Yeah, 1483 01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:46,320 Speaker 1: uh yeah, yeah yeah. I mean look Culture Kings me 1484 01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:49,640 Speaker 1: Edgar who's also been on your pod. Uh, we co 1485 01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:53,920 Speaker 1: hosted right here on the House Stuff Works Network. Uh, 1486 01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:58,479 Speaker 1: listen to it. We're we're not as smart, but we'll 1487 01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:00,960 Speaker 1: make you laugh. I'm not I just I just steal 1488 01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:03,280 Speaker 1: quotes from smart people's books. Hey man, we're not even 1489 01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:05,479 Speaker 1: smart enough to do that. We get a lot of 1490 01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:09,360 Speaker 1: shit wrong. But yeah, listen to it. We like to 1491 01:17:09,439 --> 01:17:11,240 Speaker 1: make you laugh and we like to have some thought 1492 01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:15,240 Speaker 1: provoking uh conversations hopefully to get you thinking about stuff. 1493 01:17:15,680 --> 01:17:17,920 Speaker 1: And also I'm in the streets. I'm out here performing 1494 01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:20,880 Speaker 1: all around l A. So you can catch me on 1495 01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,360 Speaker 1: a number of stages doing some comedy. That's that's what 1496 01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:26,760 Speaker 1: it is at Jackie's Nail on Twitter. Well, thank you 1497 01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:30,800 Speaker 1: Jackie's Neil for joining us today. Thank you you've been wonderful. Um. 1498 01:17:31,080 --> 01:17:33,200 Speaker 1: You can find Behind the Bastards online and Behind the 1499 01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:35,760 Speaker 1: Bastards dot com. We'll have there were a lot of 1500 01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:39,400 Speaker 1: sources for this podcast, so you will list them all there, um, 1501 01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:40,960 Speaker 1: and you can do research on your own, which I 1502 01:17:41,040 --> 01:17:43,720 Speaker 1: encourage especially the book British Concentration Camps. It's a really 1503 01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:47,040 Speaker 1: important book. You can find me on Twitter at I right, okay. 1504 01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:49,880 Speaker 1: You can also find the podcast on Twitter at at 1505 01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:52,800 Speaker 1: Bastards pod. So if I've gotten something wrong, or if 1506 01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:55,040 Speaker 1: you have additional questions or you know things you want 1507 01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:57,080 Speaker 1: to ask about, drop us a line. We love talking 1508 01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,400 Speaker 1: to you. Um. I'm gonna do something a little weird 1509 01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:00,960 Speaker 1: at the end of this because I assume anyone who's 1510 01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:02,679 Speaker 1: still listening is a real big fan of the show 1511 01:18:03,160 --> 01:18:05,000 Speaker 1: or me. So I'm just gonna suggest something for you 1512 01:18:05,080 --> 01:18:07,160 Speaker 1: to check out that I like. There's a great band. 1513 01:18:07,280 --> 01:18:10,920 Speaker 1: You can find his video, Courtney on YouTube. He's called 1514 01:18:11,479 --> 01:18:14,160 Speaker 1: The Narcissist Cookbook. You can also find him on Spotify 1515 01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:16,840 Speaker 1: and on Patreon. He's a British guy. Some of the 1516 01:18:16,920 --> 01:18:20,000 Speaker 1: best music I've heard recently. Uh. Doesn't seem to have 1517 01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:22,080 Speaker 1: a very right reach yet, so please check him out. 1518 01:18:22,360 --> 01:18:25,519 Speaker 1: That's my recommendation this week. Um I'll be back Tuesday 1519 01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,599 Speaker 1: with another story, probably of a specific terrible person rather 1520 01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:33,240 Speaker 1: than a specific terrible trend in history. UM. So yeah, 1521 01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:35,360 Speaker 1: thank you for listening, and please check us out.