Speaker 1: Attention, Gek Nation. I am going on tour across the
Speaker 1: US to nine different cities to be a Gecko and
Speaker 1: talk to people just like I do on this podcast,
Speaker 1: except I will be on a stage at a place
Speaker 1: doing it live. If you want to come see the
Speaker 1: podcast live, tickets are available now for these cities Washington,
Speaker 1: d C. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, New York City, Boston, Massachusetts, Miami, Florida, Chicago, Illinois, Denver, Colorado, Nashville, Tennessee,
Speaker 1: and Seattle, Washington. So if you live in any of
Speaker 1: those cities and you want to come catch the podcast live,
Speaker 1: the link to buy tickets will be in the episode description.
Speaker 1: The tickets will sell out fast, so if you want
Speaker 1: to go, you should get them now. Anyway, let's get
Speaker 1: into the calls. Hello, Hello, Hey is this Liz.
Speaker 2: It's live liv But yeah, that's up.
Speaker 1: What's going on there?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: This is this is GHEK g E c K. What's up?
Speaker 3: Gig?
Speaker 2: Thanks for picking up. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: What can I what can I? What can I do
Speaker 1: you for? Liz?
Speaker 2: Before I start with my whole story, can I ask
Speaker 2: you a question? It's a good question, I promise it's not.
Speaker 1: How are you sure asked me the question. I'm down
Speaker 1: for questions.
Speaker 2: What has been the most persistent thought on your mind recently?
Speaker 1: The most person some thought on my mind recently has
Speaker 1: been why do I do the things that I do?
Speaker 1: In a universe where I acknowledge that I can theoretically
Speaker 1: do an infinite number of things, Why have I chosen
Speaker 1: to do what I am doing currently? I never come
Speaker 1: up with a lasting answer to that question, but it
Speaker 1: is something that I think about very often, which you know,
Speaker 1: and I think about it because the things that I
Speaker 1: do are also related to the things that cause me
Speaker 1: happiness as well as the things that cause me unhappiness,
Speaker 1: and so I weigh the happiness they cause against the
Speaker 1: unhappiness they cause, and every day ask myself if it
Speaker 1: is worth it? And every day I have a new answer.
Speaker 2: Are you happy being Gek?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: Some days, you know, some days are more difficult than others.
Speaker 1: Some days I'm very grateful.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm always asking myself these questions because you know, I
Speaker 1: recognize I can. You know, I don't really have to
Speaker 1: do anything. You don't really have to do anything, so,
Speaker 1: you know, we choose to do things for reasons that
Speaker 1: I think are important to think about.
Speaker 2: I love that answer.
Speaker 1: Honestly, what's going on with you, Liz.
Speaker 2: Tolid I just wanted to tell you about how I
Speaker 2: like legally got kidnapped when I was seventeen and shipped
Speaker 2: off to go to this wilderness therapy rehab place for
Speaker 2: ninety days and I'm looking up on the like five
Speaker 2: year anniversary and it's just a trip to think about.
Speaker 1: Is this something that your parents sent you to? Mm
Speaker 1: hmm yeah, okay, So let's start with why did they
Speaker 1: send you to this place? What is it that you
Speaker 1: were doing that caused them concern?
Speaker 2: I'm honestly a build up of like six is ish
Speaker 2: years of super heavy benzo addiction plus like almost a
Speaker 2: year I'd say, like ninety ten months of like heroin
Speaker 2: addiction is what finally, you know, put them whatever my
Speaker 2: foot in the door to go to the wilderness.
Speaker 1: Interesting? And was this the first thing that they tried
Speaker 1: or did they try a lot of different things that
Speaker 1: didn't work before this?
Speaker 2: I mean they've tried calling the cops and like getting
Speaker 2: me like put in a drunk take for one night
Speaker 2: that didn't really do anything. They try to like cut
Speaker 2: me off. I had to live in my car for
Speaker 2: a good period of time. But this was kind of yeah,
Speaker 2: like the most drastic thing that they did.
Speaker 1: I would say, hmm, it's interesting, and I want to
Speaker 1: get into the actual experience, but it's interesting to me
Speaker 1: that they would go from cutting you off and deciding
Speaker 1: not to deal with the problem to Okay, let's give
Speaker 1: this one last shot by organizing a kidnapping to utah, right.
Speaker 2: And not even like one last chance, but like that
Speaker 2: shit was expensive, like one Like they went from cutting
Speaker 2: me off completely, Like I was like bumming it for
Speaker 2: a while, like qt Tiketo's type. Every single day it's
Speaker 2: all I tod eat. But yeah, they spent like fifty
Speaker 2: sixty grand on this fucking wilderness kidnapping rehab shit. And
Speaker 2: so I think that I think about that a lot too.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're having all these issues, your parents try
Speaker 1: these things, they try cutting you off, and then they go,
Speaker 1: you know what, let's let's ball out on the kidnapping
Speaker 1: and what was that? What was that? Like? How did
Speaker 1: like when you said you were kidnapped, where where did
Speaker 1: they like take you? Like where were you when people
Speaker 1: came to bring you to that place?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's technically they call it goony, which is just
Speaker 2: like another word for kidnapping, honestly. But I was going
Speaker 2: out with some of my friends and I didn't know
Speaker 2: that one of them had like already talked to my mom,
Speaker 2: and my mom guilt tripped her and was like, Olivia's
Speaker 2: going to kill herself if she's not, like, you know,
Speaker 2: sent to rehab. And so she told my mom where
Speaker 2: we were going. We were just going to get sonic
Speaker 2: at this place sitting nearby, and it was like eleven
Speaker 2: thirty twelve, kind of late, and this black as UV
Speaker 2: pulled up and this guy hopped out and physically grabbed
Speaker 2: me and put me in the backseat of the car,
Speaker 2: closed the door. There was another guy in the passenger
Speaker 2: seat and the doors were locked. I like instantly try
Speaker 2: to open them, and I drove off and five hours later,
Speaker 2: literally five hours from where I am in Arizona up
Speaker 2: to southern Utah. No, they didn't answer any of my questions.
Speaker 2: They didn't talk at all. And I got there and
Speaker 2: they handed me my phone and my dad called me
Speaker 2: and he was like, yeah, so you either like stay
Speaker 2: out there or I don't know, like that's that's it,
Speaker 2: Like that's the last you'll be hearing from us. So
Speaker 2: you either graduate and tough it out, or you like
Speaker 2: be homeless and for real cut off your family.
Speaker 1: So is this I mean, well, yeah, when this first happened,
Speaker 1: I mean to not know that this is a thing
Speaker 1: that's being orchestrated by your parents and to just be
Speaker 1: throwing in a van, I mean you must have thought, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like legitimately actually kidnapped. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like here, like here it goes like it's
Speaker 2: actually happening, like sex trafficking whatever, you know, woman's biggest
Speaker 2: fucking fear, right it was. I was like solving. I
Speaker 2: still have like I worked through this PTSD for years
Speaker 2: in therapy and still kind of have a little bit
Speaker 2: of like I'm shaking talking about it because it's still
Speaker 2: so like real and okay raw.
Speaker 1: So all right, So you get to the place you're
Speaker 1: talking to your dad on the phone. He says you
Speaker 1: got to do this or else we're done with you.
Speaker 1: What What is your what is your sort of initial
Speaker 1: reaction now that you're like, okay, I'm not being you know, kidnapped.
Speaker 1: This is the thing my parents have orchestrated. This is
Speaker 1: a deal they're making. What's going through your head at
Speaker 1: that point, honestly just.
Speaker 2: Like disbelief and more confusion because I'd never heard of
Speaker 2: like wilderness therapy, Like what the fuck is that? You know,
Speaker 2: it's not very popular like where I'm from, And I
Speaker 2: was just more confused, and then I was a little mad,
Speaker 2: and then I was just like defeated, And honestly I
Speaker 2: was I was like shooting up Heroin at the time
Speaker 2: regularly and knew I was fucking up and was just
Speaker 2: like in this horrible place. So I kind of finally
Speaker 2: was just like, you know, what, fuck it, Like if
Speaker 2: this is how I'm going to get the help I need, Like,
Speaker 2: this is how I'm going to get the help I need.
Speaker 1: Okay. So you there was some resistance at first, but
Speaker 1: eventually you were like, Okay, maybe this is the only way,
Speaker 1: so fuck it, let's just do it.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. And you were there for ninety days.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm, yeah, three months.
Speaker 1: So give us the rundown of what your life is
Speaker 1: like for these three months.
Speaker 2: Every single day except for the two like layover weekend days,
Speaker 2: is pack up camp, pack up everything we need on
Speaker 2: our backs, and hike like at least eight to you know,
Speaker 2: fifteen miles to our next camp, unpack, you know, make
Speaker 2: a fire, set up our little camp, eat, go to bed,
Speaker 2: wake up, pack, hike every single day for ninety days.
Speaker 2: It's like their whole motto was, you know, healing and
Speaker 2: like getting trauma and like all all the shit out
Speaker 2: through physical exercise and like holistically being in touch with
Speaker 2: nature and blah blah blah blah blah. But yeah, that's
Speaker 2: all we did. I carried a backpack bigger than me,
Speaker 2: heavier than me on my back all day every day
Speaker 2: and got crazy fucking blisters and had to be put
Speaker 2: on like suicide wash multiple times. This was just imagine
Speaker 2: a group of fourteen teenagers being thrown out, no tense
Speaker 2: or anything. All we get is a sleeping bag, and
Speaker 2: it's hard that we have to learn how to make
Speaker 2: a shelter with and so like beans and rice.
Speaker 1: So you know, you said you were shooting up heroin
Speaker 1: every day and then you came here and you're doing
Speaker 1: like this, Uh, you know, strenuous physical activity. What how
Speaker 1: is your because you know it's it's one thing to
Speaker 1: you know, go from not being I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know how physically active you were at this time,
Speaker 1: but to go from you know, being put in this
Speaker 1: situation where you're doing all this intensely physical stuff, but
Speaker 1: also to go from there while you're also I assume
Speaker 1: going on withdrawal from Heroin. How does that work? They like,
Speaker 1: you know, I know that some places they like give
Speaker 1: you a they like wean you off of it so
Speaker 1: that your body doesn't, like, you know, go absolutely nuts.
Speaker 1: Like how how is your body responding to all of this?
Speaker 1: How are they helping you through all of this?
Speaker 2: So for the first like week and a half, we
Speaker 2: didn't hike at all, and all the kids fucking loved
Speaker 2: me because like I was withdrawing so bad that I
Speaker 2: couldn't even move, But they only sent a nurse up
Speaker 2: every once in a while. They didn't give me any
Speaker 2: like medication to help the withdraws except for like ibuprofen
Speaker 2: and a mild like sedative. But it was horrible. I
Speaker 2: just have like I feel like my brain kind of
Speaker 2: blocked a lot of it out because it was just
Speaker 2: like physically and mentally the hardest thing I've ever done.
Speaker 2: But I have like memories of laying in my sleeping
Speaker 2: bag on the dirt, like sweating and like puking in
Speaker 2: the dirt and there just like being on the side
Speaker 2: of my sleeping bag and I can't move, and I'm
Speaker 2: just like rolling around and just baking, like in my
Speaker 2: sleeping bag in the sun withdrawing. Like some one of
Speaker 2: the staff members would come and check my my blood
Speaker 2: pulse or my blood ox and my pulse and everything
Speaker 2: every once in a while. But that was about it.
Speaker 2: It was like it was insane and intense and honestly
Speaker 2: fucked up.
Speaker 1: Now, you said that everybody there in general, you said,
Speaker 1: you said everyone there loved. You said every you said
Speaker 1: all the kids there loved Why did why did all
Speaker 1: the kids there well and you? And then and then
Speaker 1: to explain that you said they loved you because you
Speaker 1: were withdrawing a lot? What did you What did you
Speaker 1: mean by that?
Speaker 2: I just meant they didn't have to hike at all.
Speaker 2: They got to like stay in one camp for like
Speaker 2: a week and a half and just chill and like
Speaker 2: they ended up learning how to make hammocks and like
Speaker 2: doing all this ship and so like that's what I meant.
Speaker 2: Sorry if I was confusing, they didn't have to well.
Speaker 1: It kind of it leads me into my next thing
Speaker 1: I'm curious about, is what is your relationship, like with
Speaker 1: the other kids at the rehab at this time, are
Speaker 1: you forming connections with anybody? What is that like?
Speaker 2: While I was still like in active withdrawal, the only
Speaker 2: connections I was forming were with the staff that would
Speaker 2: like sit by me basically make sure I didn't die.
Speaker 2: But I was not in any state of mind to
Speaker 2: function like any sort of human and make connections. But
Speaker 2: after like a month of the withdrawal and then the
Speaker 2: anger and the sadness and just like being in my
Speaker 2: own head, I kind of got in the swing of
Speaker 2: things and made friends that I still you know, FaceTime
Speaker 2: multiple times a month now.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, So you made friends that you still keep in
Speaker 1: touch with. Yeah, after going through the first month of
Speaker 1: of just like physically adjusting to the new surroundings.
Speaker 5: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because you're sleeping outside with someone you know, with someone
Speaker 2: twenty four hours, seven days a week for months at
Speaker 2: a time, You're you have to go, like with the
Speaker 2: buddy to go on a little walk, to take a shit.
Speaker 2: You know, we're we got pretty close pretty fast.
Speaker 1: And are these other kids are is this is this
Speaker 1: kind of the first time at that point that you
Speaker 1: are meeting other people who also have really bad problems
Speaker 1: with drugs.
Speaker 2: No, because I have some family members with you know,
Speaker 2: inactivity and have passed because of addiction, and some of
Speaker 2: my friends and like their older brothers. But this is
Speaker 2: the first time I ever was around anyone that struggled
Speaker 2: in the ways I struggled, but also like kind of
Speaker 2: wanted to not continue this like shitty pattern.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the first time you're around other people
Speaker 1: who are showing a desire to change.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: Does that do out of a positive effect on you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that like the other people that were there,
Speaker 2: the other students with me, did more than like any
Speaker 2: of the therapists or staff members or you know, hiking
Speaker 2: could have done. Just like that community that I built
Speaker 2: was is amazing, super cool.
Speaker 1: So tell me about this. You get there, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: at first, you think you're getting fucking kidnapped. You kind
Speaker 1: of are like, all right, you know, it's either this
Speaker 1: or the highway, so let's do it. The first month
Speaker 1: you're withdrawing like crazy, you're in no mind to function properly.
Speaker 1: And then, as you tell me, after a month of
Speaker 1: just like powering through the harsh physical realities of your situation,
Speaker 1: you sort of get to a point where you are
Speaker 1: are leaning into it more and you're making these these friends,
Speaker 1: you know, these people that you still talk to. Tell
Speaker 1: me about that transition from uh, you know, I can't
Speaker 1: do this, I'm throwing up on them everywhere to okay,
Speaker 1: fuck it, let's you know, tie some knots and you know,
Speaker 1: cook fucking mike campfires and shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think eventually I just got to this
Speaker 2: point of like acceptance, like I'm already out here, I
Speaker 2: might as well learn all these skills and engage in
Speaker 2: these activities so I can sleep comfortably and stay dry
Speaker 2: if it rains, and know how to build a shelter
Speaker 2: and know how to you know, make better food on
Speaker 2: the fire than this just beans and rice every single day.
Speaker 2: I thought I was gonna be out there, might as
Speaker 2: well like make something of my time and not just
Speaker 2: go through the emotions like I think it's sad, Like
Speaker 2: I know some people that just went out the exact same, like,
Speaker 2: went through all of that physical and emotional and financial,
Speaker 2: you know, struggle just to walk out of it the same.
Speaker 2: So I got to that point and I was like,
Speaker 2: you know what, fuck it, I'm gonna have fun out
Speaker 2: here because that's just the type of person I am.
Speaker 2: Enjoy the journey.
Speaker 1: So I like, I really am trying to piece together
Speaker 1: the full story of the character arc that I'm seeing of,
Speaker 1: you know, month one, month two, now in month three,
Speaker 1: as we're sort of nearing the tail end, as you're forming,
Speaker 1: you know, what you say is a community of of
Speaker 1: you know, other people who really want to get better,
Speaker 1: you know, people who you formed an elastic connection with.
Speaker 1: What is going through your mind as you're nearing the program?
Speaker 1: Who are you? What's going on with you physically? What's
Speaker 1: what's the picture there?
Speaker 2: I I feel like I finally came into myself. Like
Speaker 2: month three was live, you know, becoming this person and
Speaker 2: the old Olivia kind of dying off. I had like
Speaker 2: this whole ceremony to like bury my past self and
Speaker 2: to leave everything out there and like genuine me try
Speaker 2: to you know, make something of my life in blah
Speaker 2: blah blah. And so yeah, it's like month three, I
Speaker 2: just I learned that I wanted to be a leader.
Speaker 2: I learned that I wanted to work in the outdoors
Speaker 2: like wilderness, not necessarily rehab, but definitely like touring.
Speaker 1: Something that interesting.
Speaker 2: I learned that I'm a uger, total like fucking dirt bag,
Speaker 2: and before I was I thought I was like a
Speaker 2: city type, suburban girl, but that's not the case. So
Speaker 2: it was cool.
Speaker 1: That's fascinating to me that you were when you were
Speaker 1: thrown into this. It was like, you know, a really
Speaker 1: you know, fucked up, you know, shitty time, and and
Speaker 1: you're being forced to do all this stuff and then
Speaker 1: you come out of it, you know, feeling like it's
Speaker 1: your it's your passion, and it's the environment that you
Speaker 1: really uh identify with.
Speaker 2: And not even identify but like thriving. No, yeah, it's
Speaker 2: super cool. I so parents a lot for like getting
Speaker 2: the balls to send me out there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was something. So a really important question I
Speaker 1: have is you know, I mean, you're telling me that
Speaker 1: you know, you're when you described being kidnapped in the van,
Speaker 1: you know, thinking that you were going to get like,
Speaker 1: you know, something horrible is going to happen to you.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're telling me that you have PTSD from that,
Speaker 1: that your voice shakes from that, that it was just
Speaker 1: a really fucked up thing, and yet you you weigh
Speaker 1: that against the fact that by the end of this program,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean undeniably it did a lot for you.
Speaker 1: And as you said, just now that you have your
Speaker 1: parents to thank for it, how do you reconcile those
Speaker 1: two feelings? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Kind of?
Speaker 1: Are you ultimately thankful to your parents for you know,
Speaker 1: putting you through all that, even though it was really difficult.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the end of the day, I'm thankful that
Speaker 2: they spent the money, honestly is what it comes down to.
Speaker 2: But thankful for sure because it made me like find
Speaker 2: you know, what I want to do with my life,
Speaker 2: and I want to start like a whole career in
Speaker 2: wilderness therapy, but maybe try to develop one that doesn't
Speaker 2: consist of the kidnapping and the like just so many
Speaker 2: fucked up things in wilderness therapy, and I just I
Speaker 2: want it to be more inclusive and more safe and
Speaker 2: more available. And without my parents sending me, I wouldn't
Speaker 2: know any of this and I wouldn't have this like passion.
Speaker 2: I started going to community college so I can get
Speaker 2: a master's in psychology, so I can become a wilderness therapist,
Speaker 2: so I can like actually have some credentials to like
Speaker 2: start this nonprofit type wilderness therapy and it's going to
Speaker 2: be more of like a mental health and addiction therapy, just.
Speaker 4: Like addiction.
Speaker 1: So tell me when you get okay you oh no, no,
Speaker 1: it's fine. When you get back from the wilderness retreat
Speaker 1: rehab thing, what happens then? Do you move back in
Speaker 1: with your with your with your mom and how are things?
Speaker 1: How is the relationship when you first get back.
Speaker 2: So one of the requirements for graduation is that everyone
Speaker 2: goes to like a halfway like sober living place before
Speaker 2: they can go back back to their regular environment and
Speaker 2: you know where some triggers or some old friends or
Speaker 2: whoever may be there. They have to because going like
Speaker 2: from living deep in the woods for months at a time,
Speaker 2: like no phone, no showers, like no toilets, it's overwhelming
Speaker 2: and overstimulating. And I couldn't even sleep on a bed
Speaker 2: for the first couple of days. It was scary. So
Speaker 2: they for sure like try to send you, usually out
Speaker 2: of state to like a sober living building halfway house.
Speaker 2: So that's what I did. I went to Salt Lake
Speaker 2: City to a halfway house, and it was super scary
Speaker 2: at first. I felt like a little like beer and headlights, Bambi,
Speaker 2: like car horns, were so loud and there were so
Speaker 2: many people, and I didn't even want to leave this
Speaker 2: like little room that I got in this you know,
Speaker 2: halfway house. But I got my groove and I met
Speaker 2: the love of my life eventually and it all worked out.
Speaker 2: But yeah, you have to go.
Speaker 1: Oh you met, you met, you met a significant other
Speaker 1: in the halfway house.
Speaker 2: No, no, he just lives in Salt Lake City.
Speaker 1: Too, Okay? Are you still with him?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So, uh, you know, I well, Olivia, thank you for
Speaker 1: is it live, Lvia, it's live, live, so live. Thank
Speaker 1: you for sharing all this stuff with us. I want
Speaker 1: to get before we go, like a picture of where
Speaker 1: you are, you know, right now. So, so, how long
Speaker 1: ago was all this stuff? Five years? You said? Mm hmm, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: seventeen yeah, the end of twenty seventeen. And so are
Speaker 1: you still with the guy that you met in fuck?
Speaker 1: I think I already asked you that. So you're with
Speaker 1: the guy that you met in Salt Lake City? Are
Speaker 1: you guys gonna get married at any point? Are you
Speaker 1: thinking about starting a family?
Speaker 2: Probably not. We are kind of in like a very open,
Speaker 2: non monogamous relationship.
Speaker 5: Nice and he lives up in Alaska, right now, he's
Speaker 5: doing like tours and weeded guides up in Alaska and
Speaker 5: he actually lives with his boyfriend up there.
Speaker 2: And I'm in Arizona and I'm living with my girlfriend.
Speaker 2: But we are still like very much together and we
Speaker 2: text almost every day and I hope to marry him
Speaker 2: one day. I want to marry him.
Speaker 1: And Uh, what's your relationship like with your parents now?
Speaker 2: Pretty good? Yeah, it was a little rough like right
Speaker 2: after because I like came out to them and I
Speaker 2: can test a lot because I just wanted to get
Speaker 2: everything out on the table while I was up there,
Speaker 2: So it was a little awkward at first for sure.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that relationship has grown tremendously and
Speaker 2: we're pretty close now. We talked and I see them
Speaker 2: a lot.
Speaker 1: Well, Olivia, fuck I called you a living and live
Speaker 1: well live. So you you have a good romantic life,
Speaker 1: You have a good relationship with your parents. You have
Speaker 1: these dreams of starting this wilderness retreat that is based
Speaker 1: off of, you know, the sort of dos and don'ts
Speaker 1: that you learned from your own experience. I'm really happy
Speaker 1: to hear that that that things have worked out for
Speaker 1: you like this, and I really appreciate you, you know,
Speaker 1: sharing this very very unique and interesting experience. It's it's
Speaker 1: it's you know. I know it sounds like it was
Speaker 1: a lot, but I am glad to hear that it
Speaker 1: ultimately sounds like it changed you for the better, and
Speaker 1: that you hope to give that change for the better
Speaker 1: to to other people via what you're pursuing Live. Is
Speaker 1: there anything else that you want to say to the
Speaker 1: people of the computer about this experience, or about anything
Speaker 1: at all, or any sort of you know, aspect of
Speaker 1: this that you feel like we didn't cover that you
Speaker 1: want to share, or anything at all. The floor, the
Speaker 1: floor is yours.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just want to say to all of the
Speaker 2: people listening on the stream, please speak out about your
Speaker 2: mental health and ask for help, and do not think
Speaker 2: that suicide and drastic measures are the only option, because
Speaker 2: they are absolutely not. And yeah, there's the suicide hotline,
Speaker 2: there's friends, but just take care of yourself and don't
Speaker 2: don't kill yourself. It's illegal, it's not allowed.
Speaker 1: Live. Thank you very much for calling, and good luck
Speaker 1: to you and have the rest of.
Speaker 3: The night.
Speaker 5: You too.
Speaker 1: By get that was a really interesting story for Live
Speaker 1: to share with us. Lots of character development. That's those
Speaker 1: are my favorite stories and things on here is when
Speaker 1: you start as one thing and then you you know,
Speaker 1: something happens, and by the end of it, you're another thing.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I'm glad to hear that live. You know,
Speaker 1: even though she was dealing with some pretty hard hit shit,
Speaker 1: it eventually all changed her for the better. And now
Speaker 1: she's using her experience to hopefully go and help other people.
Speaker 1: And I think that that is neat and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe in her wilderness program she will add somemores. I
Speaker 1: think that that is a good thing to have. Thank
Speaker 1: you again for sharing liv.
Speaker 2: Hey.
Speaker 1: This is Kyle.
Speaker 7: Hello, Yeah, this is Kyle.
Speaker 1: How's gone Kyle?
Speaker 6: It's going very good, Kyle.
Speaker 1: It says here that you are an aspiring stand up comedian,
Speaker 1: but you're wondering if this is something that you should
Speaker 1: actually pursue.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so.
Speaker 2: This is the thing.
Speaker 7: I don't have my license, so I haven't had it.
Speaker 6: I'm getting it this year, probably in by the end
Speaker 6: of September, and I have not had the chance to
Speaker 6: go to a club and do an open mic. And
Speaker 6: you I heard you on the stream. He said, you
Speaker 6: want to give me a couple of chance to do
Speaker 6: some jokes.
Speaker 1: Well, I just thought of a few, Okay, Yes I did.
Speaker 1: I did say. I did say that there was an
Speaker 1: aspiring comedian and the call Q, and that I would
Speaker 1: love to hear him give some jokes. So definitely, let's
Speaker 1: hear some jokes.
Speaker 7: All right. Well, I'm a heavy smoker, but at least
Speaker 7: I'm not blind, because I'd probably light myself on fire.
Speaker 8: I wouldn't walked into a stop sign.
Speaker 7: I learned that day.
Speaker 8: The only thing to get me to stop talking was
Speaker 8: a stop sign.
Speaker 1: Anything else.
Speaker 6: No, those are just off the top of my head.
Speaker 7: I mean, I can think of one more if you.
Speaker 1: Want me to like you? Like you mean, if you
Speaker 1: just thinking of one right now?
Speaker 7: Well, those two I saw as you were like staying
Speaker 7: my name?
Speaker 1: Okay, and so do you do you feel like if
Speaker 1: I okay? Yeah, why don't you try? And why don't
Speaker 1: you try and think of one more and then and
Speaker 1: then tell it to us?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 7: I'm not in due guy myself, But the combination not
Speaker 7: complete without Dorito's or cryptocurrency.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let me ask you, Kyle, why do you
Speaker 1: want to become a stand up comedian?
Speaker 8: I used to Well, my friends and I especially my.
Speaker 7: Friend Dave and shout out to Dave Carlos and Nick. So,
Speaker 7: my my friend Dave and I we used to watch
Speaker 7: Joe Rogan a lot, even before he got popular, and
Speaker 7: then through all through Joe Rogan, I got introduced to
Speaker 7: his bert like Joe Rogan's friends like Burt Kreischer, Theo Vaughn,
Speaker 7: Tom Segera and stuff like that, and they're always saying
Speaker 7: how difficult the comedy scene was, but how much it
Speaker 7: pays off to be on page. And I've always really
Speaker 7: loved the attention. So if I can do it, then
Speaker 7: that sounds great. But I also heard that you were
Speaker 7: you were trying to do that for six years, and
Speaker 7: I was wondering myself, what made you change.
Speaker 8: Up the things?
Speaker 7: Because, you know, for for a stand up comedian like me,
Speaker 7: what would stop me from starting If you've already done
Speaker 7: this for six years?
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Let me you know. Yeah, So I did stand up
Speaker 1: comedy from about sixteen to twenty two. I kind of
Speaker 1: kind of slowly faded out of doing it and into
Speaker 1: doing other things. Can I can I give you some advice?
Speaker 1: Of course, you said you like attention. Here's here's here's
Speaker 1: what I'll tell you about Open MIC's stand up comedy is,
Speaker 1: if you want to go do Open Mike's stand up
Speaker 1: comedy and you only do it because you really love
Speaker 1: being on stage and telling jokes. If you only do
Speaker 1: it because you love being on stage and telling jokes,
Speaker 1: even on nights where you don't do well, even on
Speaker 1: nights where you bomb horribly, you still love it. If
Speaker 1: that is the reason why you're doing it, and that's
Speaker 1: the reason why you continue to go, do it is
Speaker 1: for absolutely nothing other than you love getting on that
Speaker 1: stage and telling those jokes, and not for any reason
Speaker 1: of anything that happens surrounding that, you will be significantly
Speaker 1: happier than you know anyone who does not operate from
Speaker 1: that place, you operate from any other place such as
Speaker 1: you know, I really I really want to you know,
Speaker 1: be successful. I really want to do this for a living.
Speaker 1: You know, if you operate you know every day, every
Speaker 1: time you go out from that desire, you will be
Speaker 1: very very unhappy. So that's all I will tell you about.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you, so, So let me ask
Speaker 1: you this. Having said that, would you say that the
Speaker 1: reason why you want to do stand up is simply
Speaker 1: for the love of being on stage and telling jokes. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: then I think you will be more successful than other
Speaker 1: people who who do not operate from that place.
Speaker 7: And you know what's the thing about it is, especially
Speaker 7: like you said too, you don't want to go in there.
Speaker 8: For the money mindset because that pollutes it.
Speaker 7: Man, you just want to be as she like.
Speaker 8: I'm sure that this is what you think too, and
Speaker 8: everyone who's talented with it, like, even if I think
Speaker 8: that this is what they think, I think that if.
Speaker 7: You are the kind of god like, this is what
Speaker 7: I want to do. I want to do it as
Speaker 7: a hobby. I want to go up on stage and
Speaker 7: do it like whenever I have the spare time, and
Speaker 7: that's it. And if I get successful, that's great. If not,
Speaker 7: it's just a hobby, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I think I think you'll
Speaker 1: be fine then if that's if that's the mindset that
Speaker 1: you're going in with. And and by the way, I
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not, I hope. And it's not like
Speaker 1: I'm being a dick or being facetious, because I actually
Speaker 1: mean that. I would tell you that, you know, I
Speaker 1: would tell that to anybody, you know, because I think
Speaker 1: if you go in with some heavy expectation of results,
Speaker 1: you will just be unhappy. But if you go in
Speaker 1: because you actually like to do the thing, then you
Speaker 1: know it doesn't even matter. You know, how good you
Speaker 1: are or anything like that.
Speaker 6: Is there any your stand up comedy out there on
Speaker 6: the YouTube?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a fucking video of me. If you want
Speaker 1: to go see me do stand up comedy at eighteen
Speaker 1: years old, you can find it. I'm not gonna tell
Speaker 1: you how, but it's there. It is on the internet.
Speaker 7: Hey listen, Well, I'm going to try to get to
Speaker 7: New York and maybe i'll see you there. I don't
Speaker 7: want to hog the stage again, but I do want
Speaker 7: to see you as like a guest of the venue.
Speaker 7: And on top of that, maybe I'll start a podcast too,
Speaker 7: and I'll give you a shout out there if it
Speaker 7: ever gets popular.
Speaker 1: Kyle, you're exactly the kind of person that this world needs,
Speaker 1: and I appreciate you calling into this podcast.
Speaker 7: I appreciate you and your team for taking the call.
Speaker 1: My friend, have a good time.
Speaker 2: You too.
Speaker 4: Bye.
Speaker 1: I have so many post call thoughts on Kyle. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I did do stand up comedy for a while, you know,
Speaker 1: stand up comedians. Uh, they're they're very big shit talkers,
Speaker 1: and it's probably because of some kind of underlying unhappiness.
Speaker 1: But I really, I really meant everything that I said
Speaker 1: to Kyle.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 1: If Kyle is going into this simply because he enjoys
Speaker 1: being on stage and telling jokes, even if he's doing
Speaker 1: it to zero people at an open mic, Kyle will
Speaker 1: probably be happier than a lot of the stand up
Speaker 1: comedians out there who are mainly in it chasing some
Speaker 1: idea of you know, success or some sort of external outcome.
Speaker 1: And I know this because I went into stand up
Speaker 1: comedy also pursuing some kind of external outcome, and it's
Speaker 1: you know, it's It's part of the reason why I
Speaker 1: think I quit is because I got to a point
Speaker 1: where I was like, man, unless if you really just
Speaker 1: love being on stage telling jokes, you're not going to
Speaker 1: get anywhere with this. And I didn't feel that way.
Speaker 1: I really didn't like being on stage after a while
Speaker 1: because it always made me nervous, and you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't like when it wouldn't go well, so I couldn't
Speaker 1: hack it. You have to you have to like be
Speaker 1: having a good time even when it's not going well
Speaker 1: because you're just you just love fucking doing it so
Speaker 1: much in order to get anywhere with it, So, you know,
Speaker 1: God bless. I hope he gets farther than I did. Hello, Lyle,
Speaker 1: Hi is this Jay?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: It is?
Speaker 1: What's going on? Jay?
Speaker 3: I'm driving to see my family this weekend.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you're where We're in a car.
Speaker 3: We're in a car, Yes, I have my dog with me.
Speaker 1: How fast is the car going right now? I want
Speaker 1: to really set the scene.
Speaker 3: We're at about sixty two miles per hour going down
Speaker 3: a long highway back road to Tennessee. Bought the trees.
Speaker 1: I gotta say. Normally, when people are on the car
Speaker 1: phones or speakerphones, I can't hear them at all. But
Speaker 1: you've got a pretty good car phone.
Speaker 3: I actually have I thought a head while I have
Speaker 3: my AirPods in and my hair's covering it. So hopefully
Speaker 3: no cops can see me.
Speaker 1: This woman. Yeah, I was about to say that sounds
Speaker 1: extremely illegal, but anyway, Jay, it says here that actually
Speaker 1: know what it's like. Do you want to you tell
Speaker 1: me what's going on?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, it's a little bit strange, but I you
Speaker 3: know that all the time. So I was doing some
Speaker 3: research and apparently this is a thing that other people
Speaker 3: have too. But ever since I was younger, uh, I
Speaker 3: have this like infatuation with like when fictional characters, particularly
Speaker 3: attractive men or men that I'm attracted to, uh, get
Speaker 3: injured like they're fictional characters. Though I don't think it's
Speaker 3: like in real life. It's like in fictional situations in books, movies,
Speaker 3: or TV shows. And I don't know how to describe it,
Speaker 3: but I get like this feeling of butterflies light pleasure,
Speaker 3: and it's always perfected me. Why it happens. It's confused
Speaker 3: me for years, and I have no idea what it means,
Speaker 3: uh why it happens? And I wanted, uh an anonymous
Speaker 3: opinion from you on what the fuck is happening here?
Speaker 1: Okay, So I don't know so so so to sum
Speaker 1: it up, when you when attractive male characters in uh
Speaker 1: fictional stories are injured, it brings you pleasure.
Speaker 4: Great and it.
Speaker 1: Says it says sexually, I don't think. Okay, that was
Speaker 1: that was was gonna ask is any of this sexual?
Speaker 3: I know, I don't think. So It's just kind of like,
Speaker 3: you know, when you feel like really like into something
Speaker 3: and like passionate about something kind of like that, like okay,
Speaker 3: but I also get butterflies in my stomach.
Speaker 1: It's okay, but flies in your stomach and it makes
Speaker 1: you happy. But it is it is not a sexual thing.
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I mean I never had thought
Speaker 3: to do anything sexual when it happens.
Speaker 1: No, okay. And it says that there's a name for this.
Speaker 1: Is there a name for this? It says, it says
Speaker 1: the name is wump. Is this real?
Speaker 3: Yes? You can actually yeah, you can actually look it up.
Speaker 1: I'm what.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And there's like playlists on YouTube of like clips
Speaker 3: of people getting hurt.
Speaker 1: Okay. Okay is a term which originated in the fan
Speaker 1: fiction community to describe a genre of fan fiction in
Speaker 1: which a character endures injury, torture, or other forms of
Speaker 1: mental and physical suffering. Yes, yeah, okay, all right, so
Speaker 1: you're into onump. All right, So so wump is not
Speaker 1: This is not a this is not enough DSM. This
Speaker 1: is just a fan fiction thing.
Speaker 3: I don't think.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: Okay. When you said, when you said, there's a word
Speaker 1: for it, okay, what is a genre? It's not. You
Speaker 1: don't have it. It's it's just a genre that you're into,
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 3: So it's something that I enjoy partaking, for listening, watching whatever.
Speaker 1: Okay, cool, all right, let's get into it. So, uh,
Speaker 1: have you told anyone else about this?
Speaker 3: No? No, it's it's one of my deep dark chains
Speaker 3: and I don't ever want to talk about it. I
Speaker 3: actually mentioned it was one person, my boyfriend, but I
Speaker 3: haven't gone into depth about it because it's I don't know,
Speaker 3: it just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: What is uh, what was the conversation with your boyfriend?
Speaker 3: Like? Well, I basically just said what the term was
Speaker 3: and didn't go any farther than that. He wasn't like
Speaker 3: judgmental or anything that was good. He kind of just
Speaker 3: laughed about it and shrugged it off.
Speaker 1: All right, So I have another question. I have another
Speaker 1: question for you. I need you to answer this honestly. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: the answer this will tell me the truth.
Speaker 3: I honestly.
Speaker 1: In the news with real life people, if like like ye,
Speaker 1: has anything like that ever given you a similar pleasure?
Speaker 1: Let's say, for example, I don't know who you're into,
Speaker 1: but let's say if Chris Evans some video went viral
Speaker 1: of him like breaking his arm playing bratt basketball or
Speaker 1: some shit. Would that be something you were into interesting?
Speaker 3: Interesting? My immediate answer that comes to my head is no.
Speaker 3: But I've never experienced something like that in the news,
Speaker 3: so I can't really tell for sure.
Speaker 1: Sure, Okay, so you don't know, I said, So the
Speaker 1: answer is the answers You've never come across it, so
Speaker 1: we don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess so, and I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 3: If I ever want to come across it, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so okay, So it's not a sexual thing.
Speaker 1: It just gives you butterflies. Okay, So Jay, tell me
Speaker 1: how has this affected you in your actions, if at all,
Speaker 1: in your day to day life.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say it really affects me socially on a
Speaker 3: social basis between people, but there have the nice rise
Speaker 3: stayed up like hours and hours just watching like videos, okay,
Speaker 3: characters like getting injured and stuff passing out, anything like
Speaker 3: that made me watch a lot of like fucking TV
Speaker 3: shows that I'm not even interested in, but just like
Speaker 3: want to see that situation play out on the screen.
Speaker 3: I think that's the biggest way it was more intense.
Speaker 3: In high school, a couple of years back, but I
Speaker 3: can still feel it sometimes when I'm watching shows nowadays.
Speaker 1: Okay, because I I you know, I'm not a real
Speaker 1: therapist at all, but my my working philosophy on things
Speaker 1: like this, Uh that is like and I don't, I don't,
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't know. I don't know. But I've
Speaker 1: always kind of felt like, you know, well, okay, well
Speaker 1: so I've always feel like thoughts and feelings and obsessions
Speaker 1: are are rather dormant and uh not crazy you know,
Speaker 1: big problems until they start to have uh you know,
Speaker 1: manifests as actual negative things. Uh Like if if if
Speaker 1: these obsessions are causing you to like, you know whatever,
Speaker 1: you you don't do your class work because you're watching
Speaker 1: fan fiction of Prince Eric breaking his arm or what.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I keep focusing on people breaking
Speaker 1: their arms, But you know what I'm trying to you
Speaker 1: know what I'm trying to say, if it's if it
Speaker 1: is negatively interfering in some sort of concrete way other
Speaker 1: than you like to watch it, you know, is it
Speaker 1: negatively impacting you? Is it negatively impacting anyone that you
Speaker 1: care about? That's that's the real thing that I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think about when we're thinking about is it a problem?
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't say it's a huge problem. No, it's more
Speaker 3: of just your thought. I've been wanting to discuss this
Speaker 3: with somebody who doesn't know me.
Speaker 1: I would say, Okay, so we've established it's not a problem.
Speaker 1: Was just cool, So I mean we could dive deeper. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we can dive deeper into why you feel this?
Speaker 3: Maybe perhaps that's kind of what I'm like.
Speaker 1: I guess, why do you feel this?
Speaker 3: That's a great, excellent question. The only explanation I've been
Speaker 3: able to kind of come up with in my head
Speaker 3: is it puts this character who's supposed to be traditionally
Speaker 3: manly and tough and super like stoic into this situation
Speaker 3: where they're actually like showing emotion in some way and
Speaker 3: they're vulnerable, I guess, And it creates like a sent
Speaker 3: of urgency for the characters around it. So I guess
Speaker 3: I kind of like the dynamic that it creates between
Speaker 3: like that character and the other characters, and like how
Speaker 3: it changes the story completely, and it also it like
Speaker 3: it I think. I don't know, have you ever played
Speaker 3: The Last of Us?
Speaker 1: I have not.
Speaker 2: Damn it.
Speaker 3: Okay, to summarize that, it basically like shows the true
Speaker 3: relationship between two people and homemuch they actually care for
Speaker 3: each other.
Speaker 1: I guess is okay, So you're describing this less as
Speaker 1: some sort of weird negative obsession over human suffering and
Speaker 1: more so as a narrative device or a character building
Speaker 1: device that you find interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can look at it that way.
Speaker 2: I've never thought of it that way.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well interesting. Why do you think that you are
Speaker 1: so uh protective of telling other people about this?
Speaker 3: Mainly because it's so difficult to describe. It takes a
Speaker 3: lot of words to describe, and I just don't want
Speaker 3: to take that effort to do that, Okay in daily conversation,
Speaker 3: I guess okay, and I didn't fully understand it. I
Speaker 3: guess I go ahead.
Speaker 1: But now you are in the fan fiction community, I.
Speaker 3: Assume I used to be no longer anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you probably I mean, I you know, I
Speaker 1: know you haven't discussed this with uh, you know, you're
Speaker 1: a boyfriend, or with any of your friends or anything
Speaker 1: like that. But I assume you've talked about this or
Speaker 1: or you've at least read on forms other people who
Speaker 1: are into this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to some extent I have, And.
Speaker 1: Have you picked up anything interesting or helpful from that?
Speaker 2: Nothing?
Speaker 3: Aside from that, there's other people that experience it. I
Speaker 3: think there was a term that one of them used,
Speaker 3: like the lumper flies or something in terms of like
Speaker 3: the butterflies that you get. So it's definitely not just me,
Speaker 3: I guess is the main thing that I learned a
Speaker 3: lot of other people experience it, So it can't it
Speaker 3: can't just be something that's exclusive to like my upbringing.
Speaker 3: It's got to be tied to something like I don't
Speaker 3: know how you're brought up, or like some trigger that
Speaker 3: happened when you were younger, something like that. Because it's,
Speaker 3: like I said, it's not just me, it's it's a
Speaker 3: community of people.
Speaker 1: Right right, I learn more about it, Yeah, I feel
Speaker 1: like the fact that it's a whole community of people
Speaker 1: opens up the various reasons as to why you could
Speaker 1: be you could be attracted to this sort of thing.
Speaker 1: But I mean, lit's say, before we go, Jay, do
Speaker 1: you feel as though talking about it has given you
Speaker 1: any further insight into it?
Speaker 3: I think so. It's definitely made me think of it
Speaker 3: in a less shameful way, which is helpful. I think
Speaker 3: it kind of changed my perspective. Maybe I shall share
Speaker 3: it with some close friends of mine, talk it through
Speaker 3: them as well.
Speaker 1: Listen if it makes you feel any better. The other day,
Speaker 1: after the stream ended, I stayed up until one o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning watching videos on Reddit of people getting
Speaker 1: hit by cars.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 3: What kind of emotions did that bring you?
Speaker 1: I I like a car would be like, you know,
Speaker 1: send a person flying and right at the impact, I
Speaker 1: would go that was the emotion. Yeah, I know, it's
Speaker 1: a shock. I couldn't honestly, I don't know if I
Speaker 1: could explain it. Yeah, I know, there's definitely a thrill
Speaker 1: of it. I was on shout out r slash crazy
Speaker 1: fucking videos. There's some insane it's not cool. I totally
Speaker 1: I don't know what the fuck I'm doing on when
Speaker 1: I am watching like don't go, don't go there, don't
Speaker 1: war sufficient warning to people, don't go there. It's fucked
Speaker 1: up stuff. But I got sucked into it, just like
Speaker 1: a morbid curiosity. There's sort of there's like a Memento
Speaker 1: Maori element to it, where it's like it shows you
Speaker 1: the fragility of human life and kind of almost makes
Speaker 1: you have a little bit more respect for your own
Speaker 1: uh brutality. But I totally don't go there if you're
Speaker 1: not into very fucked up things. Anyway, thank you very
Speaker 1: much for calling you.
Speaker 3: You're welcome. Thanks for talking with me.
Speaker 1: Have a good night.
Speaker 6: You too, Ullo.
Speaker 1: Hi there, what's going on.
Speaker 4: Hither Lyle? I'm doing I'm doing just fine. How about yourself?
Speaker 1: I'm a gecko on the computer and it feels good.
Speaker 1: I was saying at the top of the stream that
Speaker 1: it really does. It really does feel nice to get,
Speaker 1: you know, get into other people's lives and thoughts and
Speaker 1: ship because it I feel like it lets me take
Speaker 1: a break from my own. So so I'm enjoying doing
Speaker 1: that this evening.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It's almost like you're plugging yourself into the metaverse whenever
Speaker 4: you're I guess, experiencing someone else's thoughts and whatever they're sharing,
Speaker 4: like reading a book.
Speaker 1: Maybe yeah, a little bit, a little bit like like
Speaker 1: plug we're plugging ourselves like metaverse.
Speaker 4: Perhaps of a lower resolution, but of the same milk.
Speaker 1: I would say, perhaps, So, what's going on with you today? Alan?
Speaker 4: So I want to talk about just the coping mechanisms.
Speaker 4: I mentioned to the the color person that I have
Speaker 4: an issue with compulsive masturbation, over eating occasionally alcohol, and
Speaker 4: you know that was reading this a tweet that said
Speaker 4: that once you kind of master your addiction to food
Speaker 4: and sex, then you know, you become way more productive
Speaker 4: and way happier. And I think that there's some truth
Speaker 4: to that, just having lived firsthand, just the effects of
Speaker 4: you know, with things like hemorrhoids and you know, having
Speaker 4: a you know, just like a weirdly shaped dick and
Speaker 4: all that.
Speaker 1: But well, Alan, I'm so sorry to say I have
Speaker 1: absolutely no experience whatsoever with compulsive masturbation and overeating, So
Speaker 1: you'll have to talk to someone else. No, just kidding, Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I've been thinking a lot about this ship because I
Speaker 1: also compulsively masturbate and overeat, and I've been thinking a
Speaker 1: lot about how my life would be would be better
Speaker 1: if I could overcome these vices. So I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 1: with you on this. Let's talk about it. How have
Speaker 1: you been thinking, Well, who else have you talked to
Speaker 1: about this stuff? Or what else have you researched about this?
Speaker 1: And what have you found?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, being someone that's I grew up with
Speaker 4: the internet. You know, I am familiar with the subreddit
Speaker 4: called no Fat No Fat Ye. I'm sure you're you
Speaker 4: might be familiar with, and you know, given the I
Speaker 4: guess public opinions about it, you know, I've heard both sides,
Speaker 4: you know, kind of deriding it, saying that, oh, like
Speaker 4: it's just bullshit, like you think you're going to your
Speaker 4: life is going to get way better if you just
Speaker 4: stop washing corn, which you know, there's some truth to that,
Speaker 4: because like you can't just only stop washing corn to
Speaker 4: expect your life to get better. But you know, I
Speaker 4: think the point of it is to really kind of
Speaker 4: curb that I guess, like addiction to it, so that
Speaker 4: you have more time to spend on other ship that's
Speaker 4: probably more productive, channeling that energy into something more I
Speaker 4: don't want to say positive or negative, but just maybe
Speaker 4: something that is more productive and has I guess more
Speaker 4: long term, uh, you know, just things that's you know,
Speaker 4: like practicing guitar, you know, like I was actually most
Speaker 4: recently these pasts, I was on a sixteen day streak
Speaker 4: and I wanted to reward myself, and so I broke
Speaker 4: the streak. But during those sixteen days, you know, just
Speaker 4: fecting a guitar and going out bird watching more often,
Speaker 4: just trying to expand my interests and proclivities and manifest
Speaker 4: them in real life instead of just imagining it all day.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: I feel like, no, this is totally totally a problem
Speaker 1: that I'm actively trying to solve for myself alongside you.
Speaker 1: Right now. My thought loops about it are like, you know,
Speaker 1: we've all we've all had really active days. I feel like,
Speaker 1: where the I have a day where at the end
Speaker 1: of it, you're like, oh, I forgot to eat today,
Speaker 1: or oh I forgot to jack off today because you
Speaker 1: were just doing shit. You just were I don't know,
Speaker 1: you were out, you were working on something, you were
Speaker 1: like lost in some other activity. And I've thought about that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I get into this weird conflict about
Speaker 1: it because that seems like a great way to overcome
Speaker 1: these vices. But on the other hand, it's like, well, fuck,
Speaker 1: is it possible even for life to be so go, go, go,
Speaker 1: go go one hundred percent of the time, Like there
Speaker 1: has to be downtime, and in that downtime, how can
Speaker 1: you avoid, you know, jacking off and eating food? Also,
Speaker 1: for me, I find like when I get depressed, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean this is a classic like fucking I don't
Speaker 1: know anything about this shit, but like chemical thing where
Speaker 1: like you're feeling depressed and so you use the sugar
Speaker 1: or the fucking coming to to get your brain to
Speaker 1: like fuel something. But when you're out and about, your
Speaker 1: brain is kind of always being stimulated. And I'm so
Speaker 1: talking out of my ass right now. Your brain is
Speaker 1: always being stimulated with shit, So you don't need the
Speaker 1: the jacket off or the food. What's worked for you
Speaker 1: so far in the uh, in the in the realm
Speaker 1: of this, because I would personally love.
Speaker 4: To know, you know, it's funny you mentioned that, because
Speaker 4: you know, I think that really is kind of at
Speaker 4: the core of the issue. It's really kind of trying
Speaker 4: to recreate a lot of the sort of stimulus that
Speaker 4: you get when you're kind of plugged into life.
Speaker 3: So to speak.
Speaker 4: Right when you have other obligations when you're out and
Speaker 4: about with friends, you know, it's not really socially acceptable
Speaker 4: to just, you know, start rubbing the head of your
Speaker 4: penis when you know, like a check walt walks into
Speaker 4: the room, right, so, you know, all these things to
Speaker 4: play and it's like, how do we create this environment
Speaker 4: just when we're sitting at our desk, right, you know,
Speaker 4: there's no I guess you know, stimulus to there's nothing
Speaker 4: really to stop us, right, And so I feel like,
Speaker 4: I don't know for me personally, like it's just having
Speaker 4: to accept a lot of the sort of impulse and
Speaker 4: just like accepting that it's just going to feel shitty
Speaker 4: and like really leaning into it. Like I don't know,
Speaker 4: if you practice like mindfulness, I know it's like kind
Speaker 4: of bullshit, like you know, the wage type shit, but
Speaker 4: you know it's in the cultural that guys then you
Speaker 4: know there's some truth to it. So I'm just kind
Speaker 4: of taking it with a grain of salt that I
Speaker 4: mind that I guess the constant needs to really just
Speaker 4: immerse yourself in a lot of I mean, this is
Speaker 4: the kind of behavior is kind of evident in like
Speaker 4: people that you TikTok and just doom scrolling and shit, right,
Speaker 4: and like I guess eating a lot and just you know,
Speaker 4: being inundated with you know, advertisements blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: Right whatever, And it's like, well.
Speaker 1: It's interesting you mentioned mindfulness because I was thinking about
Speaker 1: this today because today I was like really meditating on
Speaker 1: like I'm fucking you know, using the internet, jacket off,
Speaker 1: eating candy like way too much. And and when you're
Speaker 1: we just when you're like being conscious about it because
Speaker 1: because you know, I know, I know the feeling of
Speaker 1: unconsciously slipping into the vices and shit. And it's difficult
Speaker 1: because when you're like, when you are being mindful and
Speaker 1: you are being conscious about it, a little bit of
Speaker 1: your humanity kicks in and you can kind of control
Speaker 1: the monkey brain a little bit more to not like,
Speaker 1: you know, to right when you pick up your phone
Speaker 1: and just go no, I'm not doing that, or if
Speaker 1: you're about to pick up a piece of candy, you go, no,
Speaker 1: I'm not doing that. And the my problem is that
Speaker 1: that lasts for only a little bit. But I my
Speaker 1: theory is that it's a muscle, so like your mindfulness
Speaker 1: ability can kind So if one day you were able
Speaker 1: to resist your phone or your candy or you're porn
Speaker 1: for like a little second at least like one of
Speaker 1: the you know, however many instances a day that you
Speaker 1: do it, you're able to just be like mindful about it,
Speaker 1: then maybe the next day you'll have a you know,
Speaker 1: two instances where you were like, you know, mindful, you
Speaker 1: know something in the way, or you lift a weight
Speaker 1: and then eventually you can lift heavier and heavier stuff.
Speaker 1: I feel like mindfulness works a similar way. The difficult
Speaker 1: thing is to uh keep going down that path because
Speaker 1: I've dude, I've had so many times where like I've
Speaker 1: got you, I've been able to like quit stuff, but
Speaker 1: then you fall back on the wagon and then you
Speaker 1: just have fallen on the wagon for a long time.
Speaker 1: And it's you know, I empathize with the man. It's
Speaker 1: really hard. I'm struggling with myself whatever, just with everything.
Speaker 4: I agree with that right, right, And it's like the
Speaker 4: idea that you know, there's this incremental I guess process
Speaker 4: with respect to you know, practicing mindfulness right, and I
Speaker 4: think for many people it can be frustrating to not
Speaker 4: really reap the benefits right away just because their brains,
Speaker 4: I guess are kind of not wired to kind of
Speaker 4: I guess crave that like incremental, like you know, just improvement.
Speaker 4: And I think you know, so, you know, while it
Speaker 4: is helpful in those moments and like I have you know,
Speaker 4: seen benefits with it it's just something that I'm personally
Speaker 4: just trying to have the patience for it, right, and
Speaker 4: I think it's really hard just given our culture and
Speaker 4: you know, and something that's kind of helped me personally
Speaker 4: is like reading a lot of literature on something like
Speaker 4: no FAP for example. You know, they have you know,
Speaker 4: a bunch of message boards and you know, support groups
Speaker 4: and people talking about their own experiences. And I guess
Speaker 4: like in a weird way, like spending time looking at
Speaker 4: that kind of informs my out and sort of I
Speaker 4: guess rational thinking in terms of like it kind of
Speaker 4: like re whires my brain in a little different way
Speaker 4: where it's like, oh, if I do watch it, then
Speaker 4: like this shit's gonna happen because I heard about you know,
Speaker 4: I read about this little anecdote, and I guess like
Speaker 4: embedding that in your like sort of latent memory kind
Speaker 4: of is like a way to kind of combat that
Speaker 4: sort of subconscious like so I'm just gonna do this
Speaker 4: shit whatever. Instead of being that, it's it's more like,
Speaker 4: you know, kind of harkening back to the things that
Speaker 4: you must you read, and I guess clinging onto that.
Speaker 4: So I guess it's like in a sense like you
Speaker 4: kind of are what you eat, right, So it's like.
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, you're hanging out on these message boards
Speaker 1: and you know, you're the whatever, the amalgam of the
Speaker 1: five people hang out with the most. So if you're
Speaker 1: constantly within this community of people who's also trying to
Speaker 1: kick whatever their advice is, you'll feel a little bit
Speaker 1: more empowered to do it yourself. I mean, that's how
Speaker 1: the twelve step programs and everything work. But you know,
Speaker 1: I right, Alan, it's been it's been great talking through
Speaker 1: all this stuff with you. Like I said, I'm on
Speaker 1: my journey. I'm on my own journeys with all these
Speaker 1: these different vices myself, so it's good to be able
Speaker 1: to talk through them with you on the air like
Speaker 1: this is Is there anything that you want to say
Speaker 1: to the people of the computer before we go?
Speaker 4: Nope? And yeah, likewise, Lyle, thanks for taking the time
Speaker 4: to talk about it. It's been great for me and hopefully,
Speaker 4: you know, we we uh get through it.
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm praying for both of us.
Speaker 4: Baby alrighty, thank Lyle.
Speaker 1: Later on he was a nice guy. I you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's I guess by the nature of on here
Speaker 1: and people are calling me to tell me about things I,
Speaker 1: you know, would would that inherently imply that I have
Speaker 1: my shit together. I fucking hope it doesn't, because I
Speaker 1: don't want to give that impression at all. I was
Speaker 1: on a crazy porn and sugar and the internet binge
Speaker 1: over the course past forty eight hours. I mean, it's crazy,
Speaker 1: and I'm on you know, Alan's Alan's Kick too, where
Speaker 1: I'm like, how do I get fucking unaddicted to you know,
Speaker 1: sugar and the computer and whatnot. That's some of the
Speaker 1: reasons I and you know, I was talking about displacement
Speaker 1: activities and stuff. I love the three hours that I
Speaker 1: get to come on here and talk to other people
Speaker 1: about their lives and shit because I'm very focused, very
Speaker 1: in the moment. And they had this that saying something
Speaker 1: of idle hands or the Devil's whatever. It's really true
Speaker 1: because if you don't have anything to do that's stimulating
Speaker 1: your brain, your brain will just search for the bad
Speaker 1: shit to stimulate it with, like looking at fucking Twitter
Speaker 1: or eating McDonald's or whatever it is. So I'm learning
Speaker 1: that myself, but I again, I'm conflicted about it because
Speaker 1: I can only be go, go, go, stimulation mode for
Speaker 1: so long. But maybe that's wrong. Maybe I'm wrong about that,
Speaker 1: and I should just find more things that are productive
Speaker 1: to keep my brain in motion so that doesn't fall
Speaker 1: into traps. I thank you again to Alan for talking
Speaker 1: through all that with me.
Speaker 3: Goes on the line, taking your phone calls.
Speaker 1: Every night, Evercon goes to his eye.
Speaker 3: You're teaching your cloud in the memory line.
Speaker 5: That's not really an expert