1
00:00:00,650 --> 00:00:04,600
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, and this is Fast Politics, where

2
00:00:04,620 --> 00:00:07,500
Speaker 1: we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's

3
00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:12,889
Speaker 1: best minds. And Americans have spent over $ 100 billion more

4
00:00:13,369 --> 00:00:17,610
Speaker 1: on gas thanks to Trump's War of Choice in Iran.

5
00:00:18,020 --> 00:00:20,320
Speaker 1: We have such a good show for you today. Political

6
00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:25,400
Speaker 1: commentator Ashley St. Clair talks about Elon Musk's plans for

7
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 1: civil war.

8
00:00:26,460 --> 00:00:27,620
Speaker 2: Then we'll talk.

9
00:00:27,420 --> 00:00:33,510
Speaker 1: To author Bradley Onishi about his new book, American Caesar,

10
00:00:33,650 --> 00:00:37,470
Speaker 1: How Theocrats and Tech Lords are Turning America into a Monarch.

11
00:00:37,510 --> 00:00:39,490
Speaker 2: Monopoly. But first, the news.

12
00:00:39,750 --> 00:00:43,400
Speaker 3: Somali, it's looking like these Fed rates and the tariffs

13
00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 3: are really, really, really hitting Republicans hard. We've been covering

14
00:00:47,740 --> 00:00:50,780
Speaker 3: how much this has screwed up the economy, but we

15
00:00:50,820 --> 00:00:53,280
Speaker 3: got a lot of quotes and punch bowl from people

16
00:00:53,540 --> 00:00:56,720
Speaker 3: that seem a little shook by all the stupid decisions

17
00:00:56,780 --> 00:00:57,550
Speaker 3: inside the White House.

18
00:00:58,370 --> 00:00:58,650
Speaker 2: Yeah.

19
00:00:58,930 --> 00:01:01,730
Speaker 1: So you'll be shocked to know that this administration has

20
00:01:01,750 --> 00:01:04,270
Speaker 1: caused a lot of problems for us. You know, there's

21
00:01:04,330 --> 00:01:07,950
Speaker 1: this thing they do in this administration where they create

22
00:01:08,110 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 1: problems that turn out to be their own fault. And

23
00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,740
Speaker 1: then they sometimes fix them and sometimes make them worse.

24
00:01:16,900 --> 00:01:20,120
Speaker 1: So what's happened right now is that we have a

25
00:01:20,520 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 1: high inflation and a bond market that's freaking out. And

26
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,420
Speaker 1: we also have I mean, there's a really good article

27
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:28,540
Speaker 1: in The New York Times about this. We also have

28
00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,270
Speaker 1: some real, real problems with like the rest of the

29
00:01:32,310 --> 00:01:35,750
Speaker 1: world not trusting us. And so the Netherlands is taking

30
00:01:35,810 --> 00:01:39,420
Speaker 1: its gold back. And the and, you know, we saw

31
00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:41,860
Speaker 1: we've seen a bunch of moves like that. And so

32
00:01:41,940 --> 00:01:45,440
Speaker 1: that means that we're in a position right now where

33
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 1: the dollar, it's not as powerful as it once was.

34
00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:52,170
Speaker 1: And because our allies don't trust us, because our president

35
00:01:52,210 --> 00:01:54,430
Speaker 1: is a mad king, our dollar is going to be

36
00:01:54,570 --> 00:01:57,750
Speaker 1: that we have less value in the world. And that

37
00:01:57,810 --> 00:02:00,300
Speaker 1: is going to make things even more expensive. It's going

38
00:02:00,310 --> 00:02:03,500
Speaker 1: to cost more to service our debt than it already does.

39
00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,059
Speaker 1: And that's really scary. And so now we're at a moment.

40
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,899
Speaker 1: And then there's also this other problem, which is that

41
00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,720
Speaker 1: we have gas prices are about four dollars and thirty

42
00:02:14,780 --> 00:02:16,139
Speaker 1: six cents per gallon.

43
00:02:16,180 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 2: That's the national average.

44
00:02:17,660 --> 00:02:21,079
Speaker 1: And diesel has hit a record of six dollars and

45
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 1: twenty six cents. And it's probably going to get more costly.

46
00:02:24,940 --> 00:02:27,620
Speaker 1: And when that happens, that means that everything else gets

47
00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,279
Speaker 1: more expensive because diesel is is used for shipping everything

48
00:02:31,340 --> 00:02:35,500
Speaker 1: and making everything and heating everything. It's just it's going

49
00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,220
Speaker 1: to be inflationary across the board. So then you have

50
00:02:39,410 --> 00:02:42,650
Speaker 1: these Republicans who are we're like about 45 plus or

51
00:02:42,669 --> 00:02:46,310
Speaker 1: minus days from midterms. And you have Republicans like Susan Collins,

52
00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:48,770
Speaker 1: who has pulled it out of a hat before and

53
00:02:48,830 --> 00:02:51,910
Speaker 1: very well may again. But she is running for reelection

54
00:02:51,990 --> 00:02:54,330
Speaker 1: in a state like Maine, where people use a lot

55
00:02:54,370 --> 00:02:57,149
Speaker 1: of heating oil. Remember, we had the candidate for Maine, too,

56
00:02:57,350 --> 00:03:00,329
Speaker 1: on The congressional candidate, and he talked about heating oil

57
00:03:00,389 --> 00:03:03,570
Speaker 1: and how that is like a major concern. These people

58
00:03:03,630 --> 00:03:06,460
Speaker 1: cannot afford to heat their homes. And Maine, even though

59
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,500
Speaker 1: it's only September, Maine gets very cold. So that's where

60
00:03:10,540 --> 00:03:14,550
Speaker 1: we are here is tariffs, Trump's trade war, Trump's real war,

61
00:03:14,630 --> 00:03:17,190
Speaker 1: Trump's all of it has made life more expensive. And

62
00:03:17,230 --> 00:03:21,750
Speaker 1: then you have John Thune, who is trying to help

63
00:03:21,830 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 1: his candidates win by telling them that they can break

64
00:03:25,660 --> 00:03:28,500
Speaker 1: on the Canada trade war, which, by the way, is

65
00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,480
Speaker 1: so fucking stupid. So here we are and we have

66
00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,399
Speaker 1: Sununu running in New Hampshire. He's polling really well. He's

67
00:03:34,460 --> 00:03:37,690
Speaker 1: a Republican, but he's running in a very difficult environment.

68
00:03:38,130 --> 00:03:41,290
Speaker 1: And then the other thing is all of this drama

69
00:03:41,390 --> 00:03:44,910
Speaker 1: around Marjorie Marshall, who is a doctor who sent his

70
00:03:45,010 --> 00:03:47,500
Speaker 1: patients who did not pay their bills to jail.

71
00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:47,940
Speaker 4: Right.

72
00:03:48,300 --> 00:03:51,660
Speaker 1: He was doing such a high level of such aggressive

73
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:57,170
Speaker 1: level collections that actually 81 of his patients ended up injured. jail.

74
00:03:57,710 --> 00:04:00,690
Speaker 1: And so he's being booed and, you know, he's running

75
00:04:00,730 --> 00:04:05,310
Speaker 1: for reelection against actually a very talented candidate in Kansas.

76
00:04:05,810 --> 00:04:08,290
Speaker 1: I don't know that Democrats can flip Kansas. But what

77
00:04:08,330 --> 00:04:11,260
Speaker 1: doesn't help Republicans is that Donald Trump has threatened to

78
00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:16,820
Speaker 1: ban these Bombardier aircrafts and they are made in Kansas

79
00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,240
Speaker 1: because it's a Canadian company. So it's just like Donald

80
00:04:20,260 --> 00:04:23,150
Speaker 1: Trump is making life a lot harder for Republicans, which

81
00:04:23,410 --> 00:04:25,090
Speaker 1: we both agree is a good thing.

82
00:04:25,250 --> 00:04:28,210
Speaker 3: Yeah, so Speaker of the House Mike Johnson continues his

83
00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:34,550
Speaker 3: embarrassing run as the most inept, just laughably bad at

84
00:04:34,589 --> 00:04:36,940
Speaker 3: his job, Speaker of the House, as he has to

85
00:04:36,980 --> 00:04:40,880
Speaker 3: cancel votes to avoid the embarrassment after Thomas Massey snuck

86
00:04:41,420 --> 00:04:45,060
Speaker 3: in an impeachment for Pete Hegseth, among other crazy votes.

87
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,330
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, look, there is going to be some kind

88
00:04:48,350 --> 00:04:52,630
Speaker 1: of impeachment towards Pete Hegseth. And here's why. Between the

89
00:04:52,890 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: bombing the boats in the Caribbean And those boats that

90
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,620
Speaker 1: maybe are drugs and maybe are fishermen, that already, there's

91
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,969
Speaker 1: no way any of that's legal. We're not at war.

92
00:05:05,990 --> 00:05:08,730
Speaker 1: I mean, that's just totally war crime stuff. Or I

93
00:05:08,750 --> 00:05:12,339
Speaker 1: guess it's not war crime. It's just murder. So that stuff,

94
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:15,360
Speaker 1: there's no way that's legal. And I think that's going

95
00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 1: to be the basis. But there's all sorts of stuff

96
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,670
Speaker 1: that Hexeth is doing that is completely insane. And my

97
00:05:21,730 --> 00:05:24,929
Speaker 1: guess is if Democrats flip the House and the Senate,

98
00:05:25,110 --> 00:05:27,930
Speaker 1: you need the House to vote on impeachment, but you

99
00:05:27,970 --> 00:05:31,130
Speaker 1: need 60 senators to remove. So they get to 52

100
00:05:31,130 --> 00:05:33,450
Speaker 1: or 53. It's unlikely, but it's not impossible. Even if

101
00:05:33,650 --> 00:05:36,670
Speaker 1: they get to 54, you know, could you find six

102
00:05:36,950 --> 00:05:38,290
Speaker 1: Republican senators who would.

103
00:05:38,210 --> 00:05:38,800
Speaker 2: Go along with it?

104
00:05:39,070 --> 00:05:39,500
Speaker 1: Maybe.

105
00:05:39,510 --> 00:05:40,640
Speaker 2: It's not impossible.

106
00:05:40,700 --> 00:05:44,780
Speaker 1: Look, you know, we are used to things being Republicans

107
00:05:44,820 --> 00:05:49,660
Speaker 1: being spineless and Democrats being incompetent. But there are some

108
00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:52,780
Speaker 1: really competent Democrats that are waiting in the wings, people

109
00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:58,640
Speaker 1: like Chris Murphy. Jason Crow and they're around. And and

110
00:05:58,700 --> 00:06:02,350
Speaker 1: I think that this time Democrats see that the mistakes

111
00:06:02,430 --> 00:06:05,409
Speaker 1: they made, the big mistake was not holding Trump accountable,

112
00:06:05,490 --> 00:06:07,810
Speaker 1: not holding the people who did this stuff accountable. That's

113
00:06:07,870 --> 00:06:10,890
Speaker 1: creating an atmosphere where everyone where it felt to a

114
00:06:10,910 --> 00:06:13,190
Speaker 1: lot of people that everyone was corrupt. And so I

115
00:06:13,310 --> 00:06:15,650
Speaker 1: do think we're going to see more of this now

116
00:06:15,830 --> 00:06:20,020
Speaker 1: and more holding accountable. This, of course, was by Thomas Massey,

117
00:06:20,260 --> 00:06:23,300
Speaker 1: who is a Republican. And I'm impressed that he's using

118
00:06:23,339 --> 00:06:26,400
Speaker 1: his final words. months to do the right thing. Yeah.

119
00:06:26,779 --> 00:06:28,780
Speaker 3: And, you know, this also came on the heels of

120
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,310
Speaker 3: a vote to end the war in Iran. And I

121
00:06:31,350 --> 00:06:35,290
Speaker 3: know your favorite subject, the Clarity Act, got struck down.

122
00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:39,169
Speaker 1: So this crypto bill, there's a piece in Politico today,

123
00:06:39,330 --> 00:06:41,450
Speaker 1: crypto tried to buy Congress.

124
00:06:41,710 --> 00:06:42,540
Speaker 2: It failed.

125
00:06:42,740 --> 00:06:45,500
Speaker 1: So the Clarity Act, it's a piece of shit. And

126
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,880
Speaker 1: they have this huge super PAC called Fair Shake, which

127
00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,039
Speaker 1: they have used to try to prop up Republicans.

128
00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:55,839
Speaker 2: And they tried to pass this bill.

129
00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:01,250
Speaker 1: They had a few Democrats, but mostly it was Republicans.

130
00:07:01,890 --> 00:07:05,470
Speaker 1: And it is just this PAC is now going to

131
00:07:05,529 --> 00:07:09,170
Speaker 1: go after a lot of Democrats. In fact, the PAC

132
00:07:09,530 --> 00:07:14,130
Speaker 1: used to back allies of both parties. But now they

133
00:07:14,210 --> 00:07:17,150
Speaker 1: have decided that they're not going to they're reconsidering backing

134
00:07:17,190 --> 00:07:21,390
Speaker 1: Democrats at all because they're not playing ball with this

135
00:07:21,670 --> 00:07:25,740
Speaker 1: insane pack. And actually, you have Bill Hagerty from Republican

136
00:07:25,750 --> 00:07:30,040
Speaker 1: from Texas. Clearly, the crypto industry's influence is nonexistent with

137
00:07:30,100 --> 00:07:32,840
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party. And let's keep it that way. So

138
00:07:32,860 --> 00:07:36,500
Speaker 1: the Clarity Act fails. Crypto was not able to buy

139
00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 1: Congress today, which is. a big win for everyone.

140
00:07:40,220 --> 00:07:42,840
Speaker 3: Yep. Well, now we're going to stop talking about a

141
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:44,940
Speaker 3: big win and we're talking about a big loser. John

142
00:07:45,020 --> 00:07:48,280
Speaker 3: Fetterman was at a retreat with Fox News executives.

143
00:07:48,580 --> 00:07:49,700
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.

144
00:07:49,780 --> 00:07:52,500
Speaker 1: So John Fetterman, it's one of these things where it's

145
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,660
Speaker 1: like he seems like he's up to something bad and

146
00:07:54,700 --> 00:07:56,580
Speaker 1: it turns out he was up to something bad. He

147
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,680
Speaker 1: met with Fox News executives in a retreat in Montana

148
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: two months ago. The Murdoch family invited him, not the

149
00:08:03,470 --> 00:08:08,730
Speaker 1: good Murdochs, not James, but Rupert and Lachlan. And he

150
00:08:08,790 --> 00:08:11,510
Speaker 1: said he was invited to go there. He says that

151
00:08:11,570 --> 00:08:13,470
Speaker 1: he is still going to be a Democrat. He actually

152
00:08:13,530 --> 00:08:16,280
Speaker 1: said today he was still a Democrat, but let's wait

153
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:21,000
Speaker 1: till the midterms, which I think is really interesting that

154
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 1: he has.

155
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,940
Speaker 2: To wait for the midterms. Why does he want to

156
00:08:23,980 --> 00:08:24,700
Speaker 2: wait to the midterm?

157
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:28,830
Speaker 1: And it does certainly seem like Fetterman would really like

158
00:08:28,990 --> 00:08:34,240
Speaker 1: to be the sort of swing vote, the Joe Manchin

159
00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 1: of the Senate. You know, Joe Manchin comes from West Virginia,

160
00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:42,319
Speaker 1: where he was the only Democrat who could have won

161
00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,050
Speaker 1: that seat. Fetterman is not Joe Manchin. And I don't

162
00:08:46,190 --> 00:08:48,830
Speaker 1: like Joe Manchin, but I really don't like John Fenneman.

163
00:08:49,130 --> 00:08:51,730
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially after Manchin endorsed Susan Collins this week.

164
00:08:51,890 --> 00:08:54,930
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, that probably is going to hurt her.

165
00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,620
Speaker 3: So last night, Molly, I don't know if you saw,

166
00:08:57,660 --> 00:09:01,760
Speaker 3: but we've had a political cycle of empty podiums at

167
00:09:01,780 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 3: debates this year and much more so than usual. And

168
00:09:05,059 --> 00:09:08,830
Speaker 3: last night, Dr. Abdul El-Said had to face an empty

169
00:09:08,890 --> 00:09:12,370
Speaker 3: podium as Mike Rogers didn't show up to a Fox debate.

170
00:09:12,630 --> 00:09:15,630
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, you know, this is one of these things

171
00:09:15,710 --> 00:09:18,400
Speaker 1: where like the Republicans are not showing up for the debates.

172
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,880
Speaker 1: And there's a reason for that. It's because they know

173
00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,540
Speaker 1: what they're doing is indefensible. I actually think, you know,

174
00:09:25,580 --> 00:09:28,679
Speaker 1: we saw like one poll with Mike Rogers up early

175
00:09:28,830 --> 00:09:31,429
Speaker 1: on and we haven't seen any more. And he's not,

176
00:09:31,690 --> 00:09:34,670
Speaker 1: you know, besides living in Florida, doesn't he live in Florida?

177
00:09:34,929 --> 00:09:37,490
Speaker 3: He lied about selling his house in Florida and a

178
00:09:37,530 --> 00:09:40,390
Speaker 3: reporter caught him that it's not actually for sale. And

179
00:09:40,510 --> 00:09:43,120
Speaker 3: as Abdul said, it's because he's moving back there after

180
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:43,600
Speaker 3: the election.

181
00:09:43,820 --> 00:09:46,520
Speaker 1: I just think that not showing up for debates when

182
00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,640
Speaker 1: it's publicized is actually it's really cowardly. It's funny because

183
00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,550
Speaker 1: it's like I'm thinking about this Kansas debate with Roger

184
00:09:53,570 --> 00:09:57,450
Speaker 1: Marshall where he got booed. And when you're a Republican

185
00:09:57,470 --> 00:09:59,969
Speaker 1: or a Democrat and you're thinking about showing up for

186
00:10:00,059 --> 00:10:02,439
Speaker 1: a debate and the possibility like there's a clip of

187
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,059
Speaker 1: you being booed, like which is worse? Like the clip

188
00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:10,449
Speaker 1: of Dr. Al-Said standing next to an empty podium or

189
00:10:10,530 --> 00:10:13,490
Speaker 1: the clip of you getting booed? And I don't know

190
00:10:13,530 --> 00:10:16,030
Speaker 1: what the calculus is, but I guess that's the Mike

191
00:10:16,070 --> 00:10:18,530
Speaker 1: Rogers calculus or he couldn't get back from Florida.

192
00:10:18,550 --> 00:10:18,890
Speaker 2: So, no.

193
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,540
Speaker 3: I will say this as somebody who watches an inordinate

194
00:10:21,580 --> 00:10:24,500
Speaker 3: amount of debates, Alyssa Slotkin, who I would just say

195
00:10:24,540 --> 00:10:27,220
Speaker 3: is a middle of the road debater, wiped the floor

196
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,939
Speaker 3: with him. He is a F student at debate class.

197
00:10:30,540 --> 00:10:33,900
Speaker 1: He's a candidate who's run like the people will be like, well,

198
00:10:33,940 --> 00:10:36,380
Speaker 1: Mike Rogers is a good candidate. Mike Rogers is such

199
00:10:36,420 --> 00:10:39,359
Speaker 1: a good candidate. He's run like five times in Michigan.

200
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:41,860
Speaker 1: I mean, like, you know, if he's such a good candidate,

201
00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 1: why doesn't why can't he win?

202
00:10:47,510 --> 00:10:48,120
Speaker 2: Ashley St.

203
00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:52,340
Speaker 1: Clair is an influencer, law student and featured in Alex

204
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,520
Speaker 1: Gibney's new documentary, Musk. Welcome, Ashley.

205
00:10:57,110 --> 00:10:57,400
Speaker 4: Hello.

206
00:10:57,450 --> 00:10:57,870
Speaker 3: Hello.

207
00:10:59,410 --> 00:11:02,750
Speaker 1: So the first time I learned about you, you were

208
00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:07,510
Speaker 1: doing an amazing makeup video talking about how right wing

209
00:11:07,660 --> 00:11:12,490
Speaker 1: influence campaigns get going. And since then, you have continued

210
00:11:12,590 --> 00:11:14,070
Speaker 1: to speak very honestly.

211
00:11:14,130 --> 00:11:15,910
Speaker 2: So I want to talk to you about last week.

212
00:11:15,950 --> 00:11:20,860
Speaker 1: You were in Venice at the film festival introducing this

213
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,380
Speaker 1: Elon Musk documentary. Tell me about your decision to participate

214
00:11:24,420 --> 00:11:24,700
Speaker 1: in this.

215
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,540
Speaker 4: The decision to participate in the documentary was similar to

216
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,780
Speaker 4: my decision to speak out against MAGA or speak out

217
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,700
Speaker 4: generally just about my experiences there. And part of it

218
00:11:35,740 --> 00:11:39,160
Speaker 4: came down to wanting to set an example for my

219
00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,250
Speaker 4: children about speaking truth. Obviously, as many people know, and

220
00:11:43,270 --> 00:11:45,650
Speaker 4: I've said many times before, but maybe some of your

221
00:11:45,710 --> 00:11:48,329
Speaker 4: audience doesn't know, but I was offered a $ 40 million

222
00:11:48,350 --> 00:11:52,559
Speaker 4: NDA to not speak truth. And so when something like

223
00:11:52,580 --> 00:11:56,020
Speaker 4: that happens, you really decide, well, why are they offering

224
00:11:56,059 --> 00:11:57,740
Speaker 4: me this amount of money not to speak? What does

225
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:00,220
Speaker 4: it mean to speak? Am I on board with everything

226
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,240
Speaker 4: this individual is doing? And what is the point of

227
00:12:04,580 --> 00:12:07,699
Speaker 4: having free speech if you don't use it? And free

228
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,450
Speaker 4: speech actually turns out to be very expensive. But it

229
00:12:10,490 --> 00:12:14,410
Speaker 4: was part of that wanting to set an example and hopefully...

230
00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:18,260
Speaker 4: I think courage is contagious. And I really feel for

231
00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:20,420
Speaker 4: a lot of the people, especially the other women in

232
00:12:20,460 --> 00:12:23,820
Speaker 4: this situation who feel like they cannot speak or legally

233
00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:27,970
Speaker 4: they cannot speak. And so that was another contributing factor.

234
00:12:28,309 --> 00:12:30,830
Speaker 1: So just give us the sort of how you ended

235
00:12:30,929 --> 00:12:34,670
Speaker 1: up in this world and being offered a $ 40 million NDA.

236
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:38,339
Speaker 4: I did a comedy event at the recount. And my

237
00:12:38,380 --> 00:12:40,080
Speaker 4: long and short of it was, you know, I was

238
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,870
Speaker 4: 18 years old, and I met Charlie Kirk. I got

239
00:12:43,910 --> 00:12:46,189
Speaker 4: involved in Turning Point. It turns out they really liked

240
00:12:46,590 --> 00:12:49,819
Speaker 4: young white girls who said whatever they wanted, and it

241
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:52,260
Speaker 4: was off to the races. I did a few things,

242
00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:58,500
Speaker 4: including Elon Musk. We had a child. But I was

243
00:12:58,580 --> 00:13:03,500
Speaker 4: involved in that culture for almost a decade with MAGA

244
00:13:03,660 --> 00:13:07,540
Speaker 4: and with the turning point of it all in conservative politics,

245
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,929
Speaker 4: particularly MAGAism and Trumpism. And I got involved very young

246
00:13:11,970 --> 00:13:15,260
Speaker 4: at 18 and started. I dropped out of college. I

247
00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:18,860
Speaker 4: became an influencer. That was my entire life, my entire

248
00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:23,400
Speaker 4: ordeal up until I really defected. I always like to

249
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,059
Speaker 4: say I was shot out of a cannon out of

250
00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:29,420
Speaker 4: Jonestown once I decided to do that and go my

251
00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,780
Speaker 4: separate way. But now I've just been really on a

252
00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,699
Speaker 4: journey to try to make amends and say, OK, how

253
00:13:35,740 --> 00:13:39,100
Speaker 4: can I be useful? I think there's this. dichotomy where

254
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,600
Speaker 4: people really think the most useful thing they can do

255
00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:44,900
Speaker 4: is pick up a podcast mic. And that can be

256
00:13:45,179 --> 00:13:48,450
Speaker 4: helpful at times, but I finished my undergrad, I went

257
00:13:48,490 --> 00:13:51,090
Speaker 4: back to school, and now I'm in law school. And

258
00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:53,030
Speaker 4: that's what I want to focus on. And I'll speak

259
00:13:53,070 --> 00:13:55,210
Speaker 4: when it's important, but I want to be the best

260
00:13:55,290 --> 00:13:57,209
Speaker 4: advocate I can. And I think the best way I

261
00:13:57,250 --> 00:14:00,230
Speaker 4: can do that is within the legal field and being

262
00:14:00,270 --> 00:14:04,010
Speaker 4: credentialed and doing something you know, putting my money where

263
00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:05,710
Speaker 4: my mouth is in terms of advocacy.

264
00:14:05,730 --> 00:14:09,490
Speaker 2: So what happened? What made you have this?

265
00:14:09,950 --> 00:14:12,550
Speaker 4: It was, I always say it was, it was cumulative.

266
00:14:12,570 --> 00:14:15,790
Speaker 4: And then all at once, because I would experience certain

267
00:14:15,809 --> 00:14:18,540
Speaker 4: things within the right that I knew were wrong. And

268
00:14:18,580 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 4: then I would condition myself out of it. Or I

269
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,080
Speaker 4: would have these like MAGA handlers, top conservatives who would

270
00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,380
Speaker 4: come to me and say, you sound like CNN, delete this,

271
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,350
Speaker 4: all of this stuff. And I, but I knew it

272
00:14:31,390 --> 00:14:35,700
Speaker 4: was wrong even before I officially left very publicly, you know,

273
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,720
Speaker 4: a year and a half or so ago. There are

274
00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,180
Speaker 4: videos where I'm talking about the issue that the right

275
00:14:41,220 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 4: has with women and the misogyny and how prolific that was.

276
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 4: So it was festering underneath the surface. And then once

277
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 4: you're offered something like $ 40 million, you have to take

278
00:14:53,580 --> 00:14:57,320
Speaker 4: a stand because once you tell someone like Elon Musk, no,

279
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,810
Speaker 4: it's as if you never told him yes. And so

280
00:15:00,910 --> 00:15:02,730
Speaker 4: I knew at that moment that I was going to

281
00:15:02,750 --> 00:15:06,920
Speaker 4: be public enemy number one, and I was. So it

282
00:15:08,220 --> 00:15:11,900
Speaker 4: was a conscious choice to say, all right, I know

283
00:15:11,940 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 4: the consequences that are going to come from this. I

284
00:15:14,700 --> 00:15:19,040
Speaker 4: am going to be completely persona non grata on the

285
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,820
Speaker 4: right once I do this and take this stand. And

286
00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:23,450
Speaker 4: it was something I was ready to do, and I

287
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,450
Speaker 4: felt that I needed to have some sort of courage

288
00:15:26,510 --> 00:15:27,070
Speaker 4: in that moment.

289
00:15:27,330 --> 00:15:31,210
Speaker 1: So you've mentioned before that you think, and anyone who

290
00:15:31,230 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 1: looks at his Twitter would say this too, that Elon

291
00:15:34,580 --> 00:15:37,900
Speaker 1: seems like he wants a civil war. Did you think that?

292
00:15:38,710 --> 00:15:41,050
Speaker 1: I mean, when did that occur to you and how

293
00:15:41,110 --> 00:15:42,310
Speaker 1: worried are you about that?

294
00:15:42,670 --> 00:15:45,890
Speaker 4: I mean, he had a very... It went around a

295
00:15:45,930 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 4: lot in the papers in Europe. He had a tweet

296
00:15:48,030 --> 00:15:50,140
Speaker 4: that said, civil war is inevitable. And that was actually

297
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:54,360
Speaker 4: a response to one of my tweets. You know, he had...

298
00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 4: The irony of it is that his platform and the

299
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,230
Speaker 4: things that he's pushing... is what's sowing this division that

300
00:16:01,290 --> 00:16:06,230
Speaker 4: creates circumstances that are not real. I think he's well

301
00:16:06,290 --> 00:16:10,240
Speaker 4: aware that in these moments of chaos, it's easier to

302
00:16:10,290 --> 00:16:12,720
Speaker 4: come in and be a fixer. I think he really

303
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,980
Speaker 4: likes those conditions in which there's chaos. And when you

304
00:16:17,020 --> 00:16:19,330
Speaker 4: make a big mess and you clean up some of it,

305
00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:21,940
Speaker 4: you're going to get more credit than coming up and

306
00:16:22,060 --> 00:16:25,500
Speaker 4: tweaking something that wasn't broken. So I do think he's

307
00:16:25,540 --> 00:16:28,740
Speaker 4: deliberately sowing division that is incredibly dangerous.

308
00:16:29,370 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 1: You think he feels like it'll benefit him and make

309
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 1: him a hero?

310
00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,020
Speaker 2: Like, cause a problem, fix it.

311
00:16:35,020 --> 00:16:38,359
Speaker 4: He's not, you know, he LARPs poverty. You know, he'll

312
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 4: say that he lives in a tiny house or he's

313
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 4: living in an airstream. Meanwhile, he has all these mansions and,

314
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:47,489
Speaker 4: you know, his houses have elevators. And he pretends to

315
00:16:47,530 --> 00:16:50,470
Speaker 4: be like of the everyday person. But when the final

316
00:16:50,530 --> 00:16:55,210
Speaker 4: culmination of what he is pushing on Twitter and, you know,

317
00:16:55,390 --> 00:16:58,880
Speaker 4: throughout his rhetoric happens, he's going to be completely unaffected.

318
00:16:59,460 --> 00:17:01,640
Speaker 4: It's going to be the everyday person who bears the

319
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:05,110
Speaker 4: consequences of whatever the hell he does. No matter what

320
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,629
Speaker 4: he does, he remains untouched because as much as he

321
00:17:08,690 --> 00:17:13,210
Speaker 4: larks poverty, he is surrounded by an army of security.

322
00:17:13,290 --> 00:17:17,149
Speaker 4: He has these McMansions that he lives in. He's not

323
00:17:17,170 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 4: going to be affected by any security. of these consequences.

324
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,580
Speaker 1: Does he live in a sort of... What I've been

325
00:17:24,619 --> 00:17:26,740
Speaker 1: told and also reporting bears out is that he lives

326
00:17:26,820 --> 00:17:30,230
Speaker 1: in a sort of McMansion-y compound with the mothers, right?

327
00:17:30,270 --> 00:17:35,150
Speaker 4: He bounces back and forth between several McMansions, okay? And he,

328
00:17:35,670 --> 00:17:37,330
Speaker 4: you know, there's this narrative that he lives in a

329
00:17:37,350 --> 00:17:39,370
Speaker 4: tiny house, and now I think he's trying to tell

330
00:17:39,390 --> 00:17:42,139
Speaker 4: people he lives in an airstream in Tennessee because he

331
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,420
Speaker 4: LARPs this, like, everyday man, right? But there's nothing normal

332
00:17:46,580 --> 00:17:51,630
Speaker 4: about his life or his homes or he's completely disconnected

333
00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:54,810
Speaker 4: from the everyday person. This is someone who does not

334
00:17:54,850 --> 00:17:56,550
Speaker 4: go to the grocery store, who does not know the

335
00:17:56,590 --> 00:18:00,060
Speaker 4: price of anything, who does not fly commercial or deal

336
00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:03,320
Speaker 4: with the same everyday woes that you and I do.

337
00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:07,600
Speaker 2: Why do you think he wants to LARP? as a

338
00:18:08,180 --> 00:18:09,020
Speaker 2: normal person.

339
00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:11,590
Speaker 1: Like, I mean, most of these guys, he's the richest

340
00:18:11,619 --> 00:18:14,050
Speaker 1: man in the world. So like, what do you think

341
00:18:14,070 --> 00:18:17,430
Speaker 1: the thinking is there? And he does stuff that's wildly unpopular.

342
00:18:17,570 --> 00:18:20,229
Speaker 1: So why would this be the one thing he's interested in?

343
00:18:21,410 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 4: I have no idea, maybe to seem more relatable, but there's,

344
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,740
Speaker 4: he doesn't hide his extravagant life when he's behind the scenes.

345
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 1: He has you come.

346
00:18:31,540 --> 00:18:35,229
Speaker 4: Over to his very personal, large houses with elevators and

347
00:18:35,230 --> 00:18:39,100
Speaker 4: 20 staff members and this and that. So it really

348
00:18:39,230 --> 00:18:42,000
Speaker 4: is just like this public image thing that he's doing

349
00:18:42,060 --> 00:18:43,700
Speaker 4: that I find completely absurd.

350
00:18:44,100 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 1: Do you think that he's using Twitter to stoke division?

351
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:51,139
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess he totally is. But like, do

352
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 1: you feel like he manipulates the algorithm or there's some

353
00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:55,360
Speaker 1: manipulation of the algorithm?

354
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:56,719
Speaker 5: There is, right? Yes.

355
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:57,419
Speaker 2: Yes.

356
00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,550
Speaker 4: You know, I was with him at times where he

357
00:18:59,590 --> 00:19:02,930
Speaker 4: would He would be talking to the engineers about changing

358
00:19:03,090 --> 00:19:06,050
Speaker 4: the For You page or his account. And there was

359
00:19:06,550 --> 00:19:08,429
Speaker 4: one incident that one of the engineers had told me

360
00:19:08,490 --> 00:19:11,190
Speaker 4: about where they were fighting over the For You page,

361
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:14,419
Speaker 4: the For You algorithm. And they had Elon's account data

362
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 4: pulled up. This is what they told me, that they

363
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,580
Speaker 4: had it pulled up and they're like, we're going to

364
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,610
Speaker 4: make it after what Elon likes. And so it very

365
00:19:21,690 --> 00:19:24,830
Speaker 4: much is weighted in his favor. And that means that

366
00:19:24,970 --> 00:19:27,810
Speaker 4: anything that he likes or he responds to, that's what

367
00:19:27,850 --> 00:19:30,950
Speaker 4: everyone else is seeing. And I always say it's like

368
00:19:31,020 --> 00:19:35,180
Speaker 4: Cambridge Analytica on methamphetamines and steroids. It's, you know, this

369
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,260
Speaker 4: is a disaster. And the fact that we have no

370
00:19:37,340 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 4: transparency into how and if any of this data is

371
00:19:41,619 --> 00:19:46,129
Speaker 4: being used for voter profiles is, you know, like a

372
00:19:46,270 --> 00:19:49,969
Speaker 4: complete failure on the behalf of our elected representatives.

373
00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:53,660
Speaker 2: So say more about that, because there is a lot

374
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,260
Speaker 2: of anxiety that data is really Elon's play, that Doge

375
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,220
Speaker 2: was never about saving the government money, which obviously it

376
00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:05,240
Speaker 2: wasn't because it cost the government more money, but that

377
00:20:05,260 --> 00:20:08,129
Speaker 2: it was about data. What's your sense on that?

378
00:20:09,260 --> 00:20:12,850
Speaker 4: I would tend to agree with that assessment, because at

379
00:20:12,910 --> 00:20:16,190
Speaker 4: this point, you have to understand the positioning of Elon

380
00:20:16,270 --> 00:20:19,530
Speaker 4: at this point. He had been speaking about AI for

381
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:22,940
Speaker 4: so long. He's not at OpenAI anymore. He's watching these people,

382
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,510
Speaker 4: you know, Excel, Sam Altman. He has this lawsuit against it,

383
00:20:26,820 --> 00:20:30,199
Speaker 4: and he has nothing. Okay, he's losing. Nobody wants to

384
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,020
Speaker 4: play with Grok, and he's got to feed a lot

385
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,290
Speaker 4: of data into it. And so I think that was...

386
00:20:36,130 --> 00:20:40,990
Speaker 4: part of the motivation in co-opting these populist governments is

387
00:20:41,010 --> 00:20:43,669
Speaker 4: when you co-opt these populist governments, then you have access

388
00:20:43,710 --> 00:20:47,340
Speaker 4: to insurmountable amounts of data. He's of the position that

389
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,680
Speaker 4: humans are not very good at anything, especially running the government,

390
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,700
Speaker 4: especially driving, especially this, especially that. And so he wants

391
00:20:54,740 --> 00:20:57,800
Speaker 4: to optimize it and digitize everything.

392
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:03,510
Speaker 2: Do you think that Doge... Like, why do you actually

393
00:21:03,570 --> 00:21:06,310
Speaker 2: think he left? And do you think he's still involved

394
00:21:06,410 --> 00:21:07,390
Speaker 2: in the federal government?

395
00:21:08,270 --> 00:21:10,450
Speaker 4: I do believe he's still involved in the federal government.

396
00:21:10,730 --> 00:21:13,290
Speaker 4: They don't really have a choice, too. And that's part

397
00:21:13,310 --> 00:21:16,570
Speaker 4: of the beauty about the documentary with Gibney Musk is

398
00:21:16,670 --> 00:21:19,830
Speaker 4: that it shows how much the government kind of created

399
00:21:19,850 --> 00:21:23,889
Speaker 4: this figure now. And, you know, take, for example, when

400
00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:26,869
Speaker 4: our astronauts were stuck in space. We had two options.

401
00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:30,090
Speaker 4: We could call Elon Musk or Putin. And so, like,

402
00:21:30,190 --> 00:21:32,379
Speaker 4: what are you going to do there? And so they

403
00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:34,100
Speaker 4: don't really have a choice but to kind of be

404
00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:36,389
Speaker 4: in bed with him right now, unless they did something

405
00:21:36,430 --> 00:21:40,380
Speaker 4: like nationalize SpaceX or this, that, the other, um, But

406
00:21:40,420 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 4: there's also other people that are very involved in his orbit,

407
00:21:43,420 --> 00:21:47,230
Speaker 4: such as Joe Gebbia. I think he was the co-founder

408
00:21:47,250 --> 00:21:50,730
Speaker 4: of Airbnb. But he is the chief design officer of

409
00:21:50,790 --> 00:21:53,530
Speaker 4: the United States. Does anyone know what that is? No.

410
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:57,650
Speaker 4: He's running all of the federal websites to redesign them

411
00:21:57,690 --> 00:22:01,869
Speaker 4: and make them more aesthetic. And in that case, I

412
00:22:01,910 --> 00:22:04,530
Speaker 4: think that's dangerous. I think someone that close to Elon

413
00:22:04,550 --> 00:22:07,330
Speaker 4: who's running all the websites and has all that data,

414
00:22:07,390 --> 00:22:09,820
Speaker 4: we don't know what's being done with it. I think

415
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 4: he fell out of the White House because it's two

416
00:22:11,580 --> 00:22:14,060
Speaker 4: bulls in a china shop. You can see that coming

417
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,160
Speaker 4: from a mile away. And Elon doesn't like not being

418
00:22:18,180 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 4: in control or having the final say. So that was

419
00:22:22,570 --> 00:22:23,380
Speaker 4: likely very.

420
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:29,290
Speaker 2: Difficult for him. He has all these kids. He wants

421
00:22:29,330 --> 00:22:31,650
Speaker 2: to have all these kids. What's the thinking there?

422
00:22:32,590 --> 00:22:36,090
Speaker 4: You would have to ask him. That's spoken about a

423
00:22:36,109 --> 00:22:40,490
Speaker 4: bit in the documentary. but I cannot pretend to pontificate

424
00:22:40,570 --> 00:22:43,870
Speaker 4: about why he does this. But what did.

425
00:22:43,790 --> 00:22:46,510
Speaker 2: He say to you?

426
00:22:46,570 --> 00:22:48,810
Speaker 4: To me in particular, he said, I think you're a

427
00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:50,810
Speaker 4: great mom. I think you should have more kids. You

428
00:22:50,830 --> 00:22:55,230
Speaker 4: should have 10 kids. He was just very pronatalist. He

429
00:22:55,630 --> 00:22:58,110
Speaker 4: thinks the birth rate is a problem. He thinks there

430
00:22:58,390 --> 00:23:02,130
Speaker 4: should just be more children. But we didn't really get

431
00:23:02,230 --> 00:23:06,500
Speaker 4: into many in-depth discussions about his pronatalist sentiments.

432
00:23:07,950 --> 00:23:08,470
Speaker 1: It is.

433
00:23:09,010 --> 00:23:12,010
Speaker 2: It's just so interesting. And then how did you get

434
00:23:12,050 --> 00:23:12,890
Speaker 2: to DSI?

435
00:23:14,990 --> 00:23:17,850
Speaker 4: Oh, I posted that recently. So I, you know, I'm

436
00:23:17,869 --> 00:23:20,710
Speaker 4: not too involved with them, but I do support them

437
00:23:20,859 --> 00:23:24,379
Speaker 4: from afar because I think what they're doing is really important.

438
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,640
Speaker 4: I think they're speaking to issues that most Americans care

439
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,980
Speaker 4: about in terms of health care, in terms of housing,

440
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,429
Speaker 4: in terms of all of these issues that are plaguing us.

441
00:23:33,950 --> 00:23:37,010
Speaker 4: I think now we have our backs up against a

442
00:23:37,109 --> 00:23:40,369
Speaker 4: new Red Scare and McCarthyism that is really dangerous. I

443
00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:42,950
Speaker 4: think that is dangerous all around, not just for anyone

444
00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 4: who calls themselves a socialist, even a communist, but just

445
00:23:47,130 --> 00:23:51,179
Speaker 4: for free speech and freedom of ideology generally. So in

446
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 4: that case, I want to support that resistance. I think

447
00:23:54,580 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 4: that's really important to be involved in the communities that

448
00:23:58,820 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 4: are fighting out against this and aren't afraid anymore to say, hey,

449
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 4: you know what? We do want health care. We do

450
00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:09,179
Speaker 4: want affordable housing. Enough is enough. So I appreciate what

451
00:24:09,220 --> 00:24:11,510
Speaker 4: they're doing, though I think they have an optics problem.

452
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:13,650
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it makes sense.

453
00:24:13,670 --> 00:24:15,969
Speaker 4: You know, when you go and you see, I always say,

454
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:18,290
Speaker 4: I'm like, I went to the top of capitalism.

455
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:19,210
Speaker 2: Yeah.

456
00:24:19,770 --> 00:24:21,989
Speaker 4: I saw what these people were talking about. And it's

457
00:24:22,130 --> 00:24:25,810
Speaker 4: one thing to be debating and shitposting on Twitter about

458
00:24:25,930 --> 00:24:29,869
Speaker 4: socialism and as a college student. And it's another thing

459
00:24:29,950 --> 00:24:31,369
Speaker 4: to be in the room with some of the wealthiest

460
00:24:31,410 --> 00:24:34,790
Speaker 4: people in the world and hear them describing socialism as

461
00:24:34,830 --> 00:24:39,910
Speaker 4: handouts while they're surrounded by such immense wealth and luxury

462
00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 4: and overlooking a billion dollars in votes. That is really

463
00:24:45,460 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 4: radicalizing to see that and to see the ways in which,

464
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,510
Speaker 4: even before I publicly came out, there was the great

465
00:24:53,790 --> 00:24:57,970
Speaker 4: H-1B visa debate among the right wing. And Bernie Sanders

466
00:24:58,010 --> 00:25:00,330
Speaker 4: ended up being on the same side as me. But

467
00:25:00,369 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 4: these people also want to bring in infinite H-1B visas

468
00:25:04,460 --> 00:25:08,139
Speaker 4: while simultaneously saying that we have a jobs issue in

469
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,300
Speaker 4: America and they want to build robots to take our jobs.

470
00:25:11,580 --> 00:25:15,740
Speaker 4: And So that to me, I think the only, if

471
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,340
Speaker 4: that is the final culmination of capitalism, I'm not really

472
00:25:19,460 --> 00:25:22,090
Speaker 4: sure how I can stand in support of that. Because

473
00:25:22,330 --> 00:25:24,810
Speaker 4: at this point, like at what point is being pro-capitalism

474
00:25:25,070 --> 00:25:30,810
Speaker 4: being anti-human with the way the accelerationists are aligning themselves

475
00:25:31,010 --> 00:25:34,100
Speaker 4: with the ideals and the face of capitalism?

476
00:25:34,540 --> 00:25:39,639
Speaker 2: No, I also agree. So are you scared at all?

477
00:25:40,660 --> 00:25:43,510
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think there's always, you know, for the people,

478
00:25:43,570 --> 00:25:45,129
Speaker 4: there's a lot of people who will say, you know,

479
00:25:45,150 --> 00:25:47,550
Speaker 4: I'm being brave or courageous. And I try to tell

480
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:51,030
Speaker 4: my kids too, I'm like, being brave is doing it afraid.

481
00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:54,729
Speaker 4: Whenever you're brave, whoever you see being brave, whether it's

482
00:25:54,770 --> 00:25:57,790
Speaker 4: a superhero in a movie, or, you know, someone in

483
00:25:57,850 --> 00:26:03,310
Speaker 4: real life, bravery requires some modicum of fear, because you're,

484
00:26:03,369 --> 00:26:06,770
Speaker 4: you know, of course it is, of course, I'm worried

485
00:26:06,810 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: about what happens. But nonetheless, I think you have to

486
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:11,620
Speaker 4: you have to do it afraid.

487
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:12,460
Speaker 3: Yeah.

488
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,870
Speaker 1: No, I mean, I think that's right. And I think

489
00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:18,429
Speaker 1: that it is contagious. And I think the fact that

490
00:26:18,490 --> 00:26:22,930
Speaker 1: you spoke is probably how people like Justine, you know,

491
00:26:23,250 --> 00:26:25,170
Speaker 1: there are a lot of women in this movie who

492
00:26:25,250 --> 00:26:28,570
Speaker 1: speak and talk about the truth. And it's a very

493
00:26:28,790 --> 00:26:31,270
Speaker 1: fulsome movie, correct?

494
00:26:31,290 --> 00:26:34,090
Speaker 4: It really is. And it was it was hard for

495
00:26:34,130 --> 00:26:37,300
Speaker 4: me to watch. You know, it didn't really hit me

496
00:26:37,340 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 4: until I was sitting there, like, at the premiere in

497
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 4: the theater and just seeing it all in one place.

498
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,940
Speaker 4: And I said this with Jennifer Welch. I was like,

499
00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,590
Speaker 4: I didn't want to be right. And when you're in

500
00:26:49,619 --> 00:26:52,689
Speaker 4: a situation where you're gaslit by, you know, not only Elon,

501
00:26:52,710 --> 00:26:56,130
Speaker 4: but the entire platform of Twitter and all these people

502
00:26:56,150 --> 00:26:58,930
Speaker 4: who had come at me, and then to see all

503
00:26:58,970 --> 00:27:02,410
Speaker 4: of these narratives from very different and respected individuals, like,

504
00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:10,380
Speaker 4: harmonized people, to similar questions and similar conclusions was both

505
00:27:10,460 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 4: validating and terrifying for me.

506
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,900
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't want to be right about him. It's

507
00:27:15,980 --> 00:27:16,619
Speaker 2: pretty scary.

508
00:27:16,660 --> 00:27:19,609
Speaker 1: Now, I want you to talk about one of the

509
00:27:19,650 --> 00:27:24,390
Speaker 1: things that I think you explained so well was this

510
00:27:24,650 --> 00:27:28,169
Speaker 1: conservative messaging. And I'd love you to just give us

511
00:27:28,210 --> 00:27:31,230
Speaker 1: an example, if you can, if you can remember, because

512
00:27:31,290 --> 00:27:32,260
Speaker 1: I know it was a long time ago.

513
00:27:32,380 --> 00:27:32,780
Speaker 5: It was.

514
00:27:32,890 --> 00:27:35,100
Speaker 1: And this stuff, it's so ephemeral that it like sort

515
00:27:35,140 --> 00:27:35,939
Speaker 1: of comes in and comes out.

516
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,540
Speaker 2: But can you give us an example of how that

517
00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:40,540
Speaker 2: conservative messaging machine worked?

518
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,300
Speaker 4: Yeah, there were there were a lot of group chats

519
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 4: where people would send it or people would text you.

520
00:27:46,340 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 4: And there were also paid campaigns, a lot of paid

521
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,980
Speaker 4: campaigns for messaging, for petitions. just generally. And we didn't

522
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 4: have to disclose any of it because it was just messaging.

523
00:27:56,770 --> 00:27:58,990
Speaker 4: It was just ideology. We didn't have to disclose if

524
00:27:59,030 --> 00:28:02,830
Speaker 4: we were paid. And then the group chats, just having

525
00:28:03,250 --> 00:28:09,190
Speaker 4: people really discount how rewarding it is for those within

526
00:28:09,210 --> 00:28:11,859
Speaker 4: the movement to have the chance to be retweeted by

527
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,720
Speaker 4: Don Jr. or any of these figures and just that

528
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 4: dopamine from the social media validation. that they get from

529
00:28:19,980 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 4: being in these group chats and they're all retweeting each

530
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,090
Speaker 4: other and growing their followers and they'll share their follower updates.

531
00:28:26,130 --> 00:28:31,130
Speaker 4: And now they're monetized on Twitter. That's how that worked.

532
00:28:31,690 --> 00:28:34,230
Speaker 4: And then behind the scenes, when it was larger figures,

533
00:28:34,490 --> 00:28:37,940
Speaker 4: they would send out dossiers. I still have dossiers from

534
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 4: different scandals that happened where I would, you know, go

535
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,780
Speaker 4: against the grain and speak out against certain things. And

536
00:28:44,820 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 4: you have these figures reach out to you and say,

537
00:28:46,980 --> 00:28:50,820
Speaker 4: you know, get back in line. So it was very

538
00:28:50,860 --> 00:28:54,700
Speaker 4: much coordinated. There's nothing in these people's heads that are original.

539
00:28:54,780 --> 00:28:57,700
Speaker 4: You need to look no further than the ballroom situation

540
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 4: that all of these people saw that incident and came

541
00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:04,310
Speaker 4: to the same conclusion that Trump needs a ballroom is absurd.

542
00:29:05,290 --> 00:29:08,430
Speaker 4: But it's also just very cruel. I think these people

543
00:29:08,810 --> 00:29:12,790
Speaker 4: get off on finding like-minded people who can just be cruel.

544
00:29:12,850 --> 00:29:17,260
Speaker 4: There was one situation in which during the height of

545
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 4: the E. Jean Carroll situation, in one of these very

546
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,060
Speaker 4: prominent group chats, they were saying that she was too

547
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,540
Speaker 4: ugly to be assaulted. And then they were putting out

548
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,060
Speaker 4: tweets that were similar. And I laughed. I was like,

549
00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:32,730
Speaker 4: this is just horrific. And they were really feeding off

550
00:29:32,750 --> 00:29:37,410
Speaker 4: of each other. So I think it's multifaceted. There's paid campaigns,

551
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 4: there's the social validation, and there's just... the general cruelty

552
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:41,980
Speaker 4: of it all.

553
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: We're out of time, but when you said dossiers, do

554
00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:48,430
Speaker 1: you mean dossiers on you? Yes.

555
00:29:48,830 --> 00:29:50,570
Speaker 2: Can you just say more on that? Yes.

556
00:29:50,670 --> 00:29:54,350
Speaker 4: There were prominent figures within the conservative movement who when

557
00:29:54,430 --> 00:29:58,590
Speaker 4: certain scandals would happen or They would then get together

558
00:29:58,650 --> 00:30:00,489
Speaker 4: a few of them and then send out, you know,

559
00:30:00,510 --> 00:30:02,770
Speaker 4: what are we going to do with Ashley now? Or

560
00:30:02,810 --> 00:30:06,190
Speaker 4: how are we going to address this pushback on this messaging?

561
00:30:06,930 --> 00:30:09,780
Speaker 4: And I just recently found one of them last week

562
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 4: as I was going through documents. But, you know, to

563
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:16,540
Speaker 4: reread it and think about me reading that and going

564
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 4: through that at 19, 20 years old, I was like,

565
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 4: fuck these people. But yeah, it was very much coordinated.

566
00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 2: So like blackmail almost. sort of not not particularly but

567
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,920
Speaker 2: like we have bad stuff on you and if you

568
00:30:32,940 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: don't stay in line we're gonna no it.

569
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,940
Speaker 4: Was no it was more um it was more along

570
00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:40,790
Speaker 4: the lines of like you know how are we going

571
00:30:40,810 --> 00:30:43,270
Speaker 4: to get this situation under control and if we can't

572
00:30:43,310 --> 00:30:45,950
Speaker 4: then she's kind of you know we're gonna have to

573
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:46,710
Speaker 4: push back.

574
00:30:46,830 --> 00:30:50,370
Speaker 1: Yeah wow um ashley thank you thank you of course

575
00:30:50,430 --> 00:30:51,990
Speaker 1: molly coming on thank you.

576
00:30:53,660 --> 00:30:54,060
Speaker 2: Dr.

577
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,580
Speaker 1: Bradley Onishi is the author of American Caesar, How Theocrats

578
00:30:59,660 --> 00:31:03,460
Speaker 1: and Tech Lords are Turning America into a Monarchy, and

579
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,660
Speaker 1: the host of the Straight White American Jesus podcast.

580
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:08,610
Speaker 2: Welcome, welcome, Bradley.

581
00:31:08,620 --> 00:31:11,150
Speaker 5: Absolutely fantastic to be back. Thanks for having me.

582
00:31:11,250 --> 00:31:13,150
Speaker 2: So you're here to talk about American Caesar.

583
00:31:13,570 --> 00:31:18,270
Speaker 1: I'm going to read the subtitle, How Theocrats and Tech

584
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:20,630
Speaker 1: Lords are Turning America into a Monarchy.

585
00:31:20,970 --> 00:31:21,710
Speaker 2: Correct.

586
00:31:22,570 --> 00:31:26,630
Speaker 1: And I, you know, do not come from such humble background, right?

587
00:31:26,670 --> 00:31:29,750
Speaker 2: Like, but I can feel it and I can't imagine.

588
00:31:29,410 --> 00:31:33,450
Speaker 1: What it's like to come from real modest circumstances because

589
00:31:33,710 --> 00:31:37,270
Speaker 1: it's very clear there's a sort of tech oligarchy that

590
00:31:37,310 --> 00:31:40,330
Speaker 1: has decided they are running things now.

591
00:31:40,350 --> 00:31:41,450
Speaker 2: So talk us through this.

592
00:31:41,610 --> 00:31:42,690
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I think that's right.

593
00:31:42,810 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 6: And I think the American worker especially is getting less

594
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,580
Speaker 6: of the pie than ever before. I think we can

595
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,980
Speaker 6: we can see that in the social science. And so, yes,

596
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:54,380
Speaker 6: there's a tech oligarchy that wants to control everything. And

597
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 6: what I started to notice during the 2024 election season

598
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,700
Speaker 6: was they have a strange alliance now with the Christian

599
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,510
Speaker 6: nationalists that I've been studying for for decades. Somehow the

600
00:32:05,550 --> 00:32:09,470
Speaker 6: tech oligarchy is And the radical traditional Catholics like Kevin

601
00:32:09,510 --> 00:32:13,370
Speaker 6: Roberts at the Heritage Foundation and, you know, people like

602
00:32:13,390 --> 00:32:16,150
Speaker 6: Doug Wilson and Pete Hegseth, they all see themselves as

603
00:32:16,170 --> 00:32:19,500
Speaker 6: on the same team. And, you know, tech oligarchy scares

604
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 6: the hell out of me. But those folks teaming up,

605
00:32:22,540 --> 00:32:23,900
Speaker 6: I think, is even more terrifying.

606
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:24,860
Speaker 2: Correct.

607
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,940
Speaker 1: And also, I want you to explain who is the

608
00:32:29,060 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: intellectual leader of the tech oligarchy?

609
00:32:31,940 --> 00:32:34,350
Speaker 6: If we think of Silicon Valley, Elon Musk is always

610
00:32:34,370 --> 00:32:36,990
Speaker 6: the one out front. He's got a chainsaw on stage.

611
00:32:37,050 --> 00:32:40,090
Speaker 6: He's running Doge. He's always doing something that's bombastic. And

612
00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:42,850
Speaker 6: he seems really into kind of making himself a brand

613
00:32:42,930 --> 00:32:46,390
Speaker 6: that people worship and idolize. Peter Thiel, I think, is

614
00:32:46,570 --> 00:32:47,870
Speaker 6: actually more influential.

615
00:32:48,190 --> 00:32:49,350
Speaker 5: And, you know, if you go.

616
00:32:49,210 --> 00:32:51,730
Speaker 6: Down the list of people who are in the Trump government,

617
00:32:51,930 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 6: who are influencing the Trump government, are spread around Silicon

618
00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 6: Valley and D.C. and everywhere across the world, Thiel may

619
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,460
Speaker 6: be one of the top 10 most influential people in

620
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,660
Speaker 6: the world, and he fashions himself an intellectual. He's somebody

621
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,739
Speaker 6: who has published essays on philosophers like Claude Lévi-Strauss and

622
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:12,750
Speaker 6: René Girard. And so his influence in the tech space

623
00:33:12,910 --> 00:33:15,930
Speaker 6: as kind of taking this highbrow, we know better than

624
00:33:16,010 --> 00:33:20,010
Speaker 6: you by way of philosophy, really trickles down. So if

625
00:33:20,030 --> 00:33:22,770
Speaker 6: you think of Alex Karp, the head of Palantir and

626
00:33:22,790 --> 00:33:25,110
Speaker 6: a kind of Thiel protege, this is a man who

627
00:33:25,170 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 6: has a doctorate in philosophy from good to university. You

628
00:33:28,180 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 6: think about Curtis Yarvin, who in my mind is more

629
00:33:31,340 --> 00:33:34,340
Speaker 6: of a pseudo-intellectual than anything else, but he also fashions

630
00:33:34,380 --> 00:33:37,370
Speaker 6: himself as a highbrow thinker. And so, you know, the

631
00:33:37,420 --> 00:33:40,910
Speaker 6: influence tree is coming from Peter Thiel and what he

632
00:33:41,010 --> 00:33:42,510
Speaker 6: learned at Stanford 25 years ago.

633
00:33:43,690 --> 00:33:47,530
Speaker 1: Peter Thiel seems as if he's the sort of intellectual

634
00:33:47,610 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: leader of this group. Alex Karp and Elon both have

635
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: this sort of unhinged quality. I'm not going to say

636
00:33:56,540 --> 00:33:59,020
Speaker 1: what it's caused by because I don't want to get sued.

637
00:33:59,140 --> 00:34:02,810
Speaker 1: And also because who knows? But it certainly seems as

638
00:34:03,010 --> 00:34:07,750
Speaker 1: if their behavior is deeply unusual. And that, in my mind,

639
00:34:08,090 --> 00:34:11,950
Speaker 1: makes them seem as if they're temporary players and not

640
00:34:12,090 --> 00:34:15,700
Speaker 1: long-term players in this. But when I look at Teal,

641
00:34:16,110 --> 00:34:21,180
Speaker 1: it strikes me that he has managed to create people

642
00:34:21,260 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: like J.D. Vance. Whereas we haven't seen Elon do that

643
00:34:25,020 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 1: quite the same way. So who are the politicians? Like, remember,

644
00:34:28,550 --> 00:34:31,170
Speaker 1: I remember Thiel had a crew with J.D.

645
00:34:31,230 --> 00:34:31,670
Speaker 2: Vance.

646
00:34:31,830 --> 00:34:34,509
Speaker 1: You know, he had tried with Blake Masters, like he's

647
00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:36,370
Speaker 1: tried with different candidates before.

648
00:34:36,410 --> 00:34:38,069
Speaker 2: But it seems like J.D. Vance is the.

649
00:34:38,090 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 1: Most concrete example of him basically creating a politician.

650
00:34:41,940 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 4: Right.

651
00:34:42,219 --> 00:34:42,439
Speaker 1: J.D.

652
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,700
Speaker 6: Vance is the best example. And I think that when

653
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,140
Speaker 6: you examine Vice President Vance on the campaign trail or

654
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,500
Speaker 6: in public appearances, you wonder how someone with such little

655
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 6: charisma and people skills was able to advance so far.

656
00:34:55,180 --> 00:34:56,420
Speaker 5: And there's many answers.

657
00:34:56,580 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 6: One of them, though, is just an immense patronage coming

658
00:34:59,700 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 6: from one of the richest men in the world. But

659
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 6: I think if you if and what I do in

660
00:35:04,180 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 6: American Caesars, I try to go down the list of

661
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:09,690
Speaker 6: folks who have worked with Teal, have been funded by Teal,

662
00:35:09,790 --> 00:35:13,170
Speaker 6: who are not in perhaps the highest profile seats, you know,

663
00:35:13,210 --> 00:35:16,430
Speaker 6: senators or Congress people and so on, but are part

664
00:35:16,450 --> 00:35:18,790
Speaker 6: of the CDC, part of the FDA, part of the

665
00:35:18,810 --> 00:35:22,250
Speaker 6: Defense Department, folks that he has strategically placed behind the scenes.

666
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:24,890
Speaker 6: One way that folks probably are aware of that just

667
00:35:24,930 --> 00:35:26,750
Speaker 6: needs to be brought up anytime we have a chance

668
00:35:26,830 --> 00:35:30,509
Speaker 6: is that Palantir has been integrated into the U.S. military now.

669
00:35:30,890 --> 00:35:33,980
Speaker 6: And it's been integrated into the NHS in the UK.

670
00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 6: When you think of Palantir as a direct creation of

671
00:35:37,780 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 6: Peter Thiel and the way it's now integrated into our

672
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,790
Speaker 6: armed services, and you start to zoom out and look

673
00:35:42,830 --> 00:35:46,469
Speaker 6: at everyone who Thiel has placed around the various agencies

674
00:35:46,570 --> 00:35:48,910
Speaker 6: in D.C., you start to realize that he has a

675
00:35:48,910 --> 00:35:52,060
Speaker 6: strategy that goes far beyond Musk. and doge and standing

676
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:53,300
Speaker 6: on stage with the chainsaw.

677
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: So let's talk about the idea behind this. Explain it.

678
00:35:57,680 --> 00:35:59,219
Speaker 6: You know, one of the things that struck me as

679
00:35:59,260 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 6: I was writing this book is that Peter Thiel has

680
00:36:01,580 --> 00:36:04,070
Speaker 6: been a Christian his whole life. And I think a

681
00:36:04,110 --> 00:36:06,209
Speaker 6: lot of folks are just discovering that Peter Thiel talks

682
00:36:06,270 --> 00:36:09,810
Speaker 6: about the Antichrist and apocalypse all the time. He's somebody

683
00:36:09,870 --> 00:36:13,510
Speaker 6: who's seemingly more interested in talking about the mythology behind

684
00:36:13,570 --> 00:36:17,390
Speaker 6: Jesus rather than the spirituality, praying, or of other aspects

685
00:36:17,430 --> 00:36:18,190
Speaker 6: of being a Christian.

686
00:36:18,310 --> 00:36:19,109
Speaker 5: What's the point here?

687
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:21,989
Speaker 6: The point is Peter Thiel has blended his understanding of

688
00:36:22,030 --> 00:36:25,310
Speaker 6: Christianity with a philosophy coming from various vectors. One is

689
00:36:25,350 --> 00:36:28,069
Speaker 6: René Girard, the French literary theorist that he talks about

690
00:36:28,090 --> 00:36:30,430
Speaker 6: all the time. Another is Claude Lévi-Strauss, the kind of

691
00:36:30,710 --> 00:36:33,390
Speaker 6: favorite anthropologist by the American right. And one of the

692
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 6: things that really set Thiel off as a public intellectual

693
00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:40,460
Speaker 6: was 9-11. And 25 years ago, Thiel wanted to understand

694
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,260
Speaker 6: how you protect the quote unquote West from limitless violence.

695
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,760
Speaker 6: How do you ensure that 9-11 type attacks don't happen

696
00:36:47,940 --> 00:36:51,800
Speaker 6: every month? He concluded that he would rather overrun civil

697
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,770
Speaker 6: liberties and create a situation where the mores of democracy

698
00:36:55,969 --> 00:36:59,250
Speaker 6: are overrun and we live in a safe and secure state.

699
00:36:59,610 --> 00:37:02,370
Speaker 6: one that might be under surveillance at all times via

700
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:05,910
Speaker 6: Palantir and other ways, rather than face the limitless violence

701
00:37:05,969 --> 00:37:06,830
Speaker 6: of religious wars.

702
00:37:06,890 --> 00:37:08,490
Speaker 2: That's Thiel or that's Karp?

703
00:37:08,730 --> 00:37:09,290
Speaker 5: That's Thiel.

704
00:37:09,410 --> 00:37:11,930
Speaker 2: Because Karp also believes that really, right?

705
00:37:11,950 --> 00:37:13,870
Speaker 6: Well, and this is where I think people really miss

706
00:37:13,930 --> 00:37:17,270
Speaker 6: what Karp represents for Thiel's kind of universe. Peter Thiel

707
00:37:17,310 --> 00:37:19,930
Speaker 6: handpicked Alex Karp. Alex Karp has said in interviews, I

708
00:37:19,969 --> 00:37:21,779
Speaker 6: have no idea why he chose me. I was a

709
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 6: philosopher with a law degree. I was not a tech guy.

710
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:28,410
Speaker 6: I didn't understand Silicon Valley in that way. And yet

711
00:37:28,570 --> 00:37:31,350
Speaker 6: Alex Karp did something for Teal. He was supposed to

712
00:37:31,410 --> 00:37:34,630
Speaker 6: be a kind of centrist liberal. And in reality, he

713
00:37:34,690 --> 00:37:39,140
Speaker 6: advances this kind of Samuel Huntington clash of civilizations worldview

714
00:37:39,180 --> 00:37:41,319
Speaker 6: that really lines up right with Teal, that there are

715
00:37:41,340 --> 00:37:44,060
Speaker 6: people who have different civilizations and different values. And the

716
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 6: superiority of the United States comes not in the fact

717
00:37:46,820 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 6: that we're elevated morally. It comes in the fact that

718
00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:52,590
Speaker 6: we can kill people most effectively across the world through

719
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:56,870
Speaker 6: our military and its partnerships with AI and Silicon Valley

720
00:37:56,890 --> 00:37:58,910
Speaker 6: and so on and so forth. So the philosophy here

721
00:37:58,930 --> 00:38:01,910
Speaker 6: is a clash of civilizations mindset that says either we

722
00:38:01,950 --> 00:38:03,009
Speaker 6: get them or they get us.

723
00:38:03,070 --> 00:38:05,890
Speaker 5: There's no coalescing our values. There's no coexistence.

724
00:38:05,930 --> 00:38:08,180
Speaker 6: There's no sense that we'll ever live in a world

725
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,819
Speaker 6: order beset by peace. We either need to get or

726
00:38:10,860 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 6: get got. And as a tech oligarch. as the billionaire

727
00:38:14,060 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 6: in charge, I feel like I want to be the

728
00:38:15,540 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 6: one calling the shots on how that happens, where it happens,

729
00:38:18,469 --> 00:38:20,230
Speaker 6: and what the new world order looks like when it's

730
00:38:20,270 --> 00:38:20,670
Speaker 6: all finished.

731
00:38:20,710 --> 00:38:23,830
Speaker 1: So this is basically the opposite of libertarianism.

732
00:38:23,910 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 6: One of my pet peeves at this moment, and I

733
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 6: make this clear in the book, is that when you

734
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 6: describe libertarianism, Folks, either in the technoclass or in the

735
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,090
Speaker 6: Christian nationalist spaces as libertarian, you're really not doing your homework.

736
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:37,189
Speaker 5: The age of Reagan orthodoxy is over.

737
00:38:37,310 --> 00:38:40,330
Speaker 6: The idea of a small government, low regulation, no taxes,

738
00:38:40,710 --> 00:38:43,450
Speaker 6: that idea is out the window. What they've realized is

739
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,820
Speaker 6: we're not the majority. And so if we're going to win,

740
00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 6: we need the strong fist of an autocrat rather than

741
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,480
Speaker 6: the invisible hand of the market. We need a big

742
00:38:51,540 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 6: government that will tell everyone what to do, even if

743
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,450
Speaker 6: it seems as if our basic human rights are being

744
00:38:56,570 --> 00:38:59,250
Speaker 6: overrun in the process. So that could be a Christian prince.

745
00:38:59,550 --> 00:39:01,290
Speaker 6: It could be a tech CEO. It could be a

746
00:39:01,310 --> 00:39:04,870
Speaker 6: Protestant Franco. It could be any iteration of a strongman.

747
00:39:05,130 --> 00:39:08,070
Speaker 6: But this is not libertarianism. This is not a small

748
00:39:08,110 --> 00:39:09,810
Speaker 6: government that doesn't interfere with your life.

749
00:39:09,830 --> 00:39:13,049
Speaker 1: It's the opposite. It's just they don't like regulation. That's

750
00:39:13,090 --> 00:39:15,670
Speaker 1: the only way in which it's similar. They don't like

751
00:39:15,710 --> 00:39:20,010
Speaker 1: regulation unless maybe they could use it to hurt competitors.

752
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: Companies they're competing with.

753
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,839
Speaker 6: And if you read Thiel, Zero to One and his

754
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,510
Speaker 6: other writing, and you think about what Palantir is doing,

755
00:39:26,530 --> 00:39:27,850
Speaker 6: Thiel is not a capitalist.

756
00:39:27,870 --> 00:39:28,690
Speaker 5: He's a monopolist.

757
00:39:28,890 --> 00:39:31,580
Speaker 6: He argues, I want to have an absolute monopoly over

758
00:39:31,620 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 6: the market. I want to create something where there is

759
00:39:33,500 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 6: no competitors. I don't want to be first in the race.

760
00:39:35,950 --> 00:39:37,989
Speaker 6: I want to be the only one who's playing. I

761
00:39:38,030 --> 00:39:40,210
Speaker 6: think Venezuela is a really good example. I know that

762
00:39:40,250 --> 00:39:43,190
Speaker 6: Venezuela is not necessarily a Peter Thiel venture, but Marco

763
00:39:43,230 --> 00:39:46,030
Speaker 6: Rubio is currently running Venezuela from D.C.

764
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,620
Speaker 5: And controlling foreign policy. Who gets to do business?

765
00:39:49,700 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 3: Who doesn't?

766
00:39:50,340 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 6: The import and export of oil and every other good

767
00:39:53,180 --> 00:39:55,969
Speaker 6: to the country. That sounds like really big government and

768
00:39:56,390 --> 00:39:59,870
Speaker 6: regulation to the hilt, except for on one person. And

769
00:39:59,890 --> 00:40:02,700
Speaker 6: that's Marco Rubio representing the American government. To me, that's

770
00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:05,140
Speaker 6: what Teal wants, right? He wants to regulate everyone else's

771
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,420
Speaker 6: life to the T, and yet he wants to be

772
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 6: the one who's the regulator in chief. And to me,

773
00:40:10,060 --> 00:40:13,270
Speaker 6: if you start to understand that, then Palantir, Alex Karp,

774
00:40:13,610 --> 00:40:17,029
Speaker 6: and Teal's affinity with Christian Nationalists starts to make more sense.

775
00:40:17,210 --> 00:40:18,029
Speaker 2: I totally get this.

776
00:40:18,310 --> 00:40:21,090
Speaker 1: Part of this is also, there's like a sense in

777
00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:24,940
Speaker 1: which there's divinity, that these people were chosen.

778
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:25,819
Speaker 2: Explain that.

779
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,500
Speaker 6: You know, I think one of the things that really

780
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 6: struck me as made my way through the research of

781
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,240
Speaker 6: this book is that what Christian nationalists like Doug Wilson

782
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:35,779
Speaker 6: and traditional Catholics like Kevin Roberts and Patrick Janine, and

783
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,420
Speaker 6: then also the Peter Thiel's of the world believe is

784
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,009
Speaker 6: there are folks who are naturally born to be in charge.

785
00:40:41,340 --> 00:40:44,469
Speaker 6: This democratic ideal that we share power, that we the

786
00:40:44,489 --> 00:40:47,270
Speaker 6: people speak, that the majority position is the one that

787
00:40:47,290 --> 00:40:51,470
Speaker 6: we take. That idea denigrates the superiority of the small

788
00:40:51,590 --> 00:40:55,990
Speaker 6: group of aristocrats technocrats, Christian leaders who should.

789
00:40:55,830 --> 00:40:56,430
Speaker 5: Be in charge.

790
00:40:56,650 --> 00:40:59,150
Speaker 6: So what these men share, and they're almost all men,

791
00:40:59,489 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 6: is the idea that we need to order society according

792
00:41:02,020 --> 00:41:05,259
Speaker 6: to the few who know how to lead, have the

793
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 6: capacity for understanding where civilization should head, and everyone else

794
00:41:09,460 --> 00:41:10,660
Speaker 6: should just submit to the.

795
00:41:10,620 --> 00:41:11,740
Speaker 5: Natural order of things.

796
00:41:11,989 --> 00:41:15,210
Speaker 6: And, you know, whether that is a divinized tech leader

797
00:41:15,469 --> 00:41:17,630
Speaker 6: or whether that is a Christian prince who is the

798
00:41:17,730 --> 00:41:21,310
Speaker 6: emissary of God on earth, the model is very similar.

799
00:41:21,710 --> 00:41:25,460
Speaker 6: And it really gives all power without accountability to one

800
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 6: person in the hopes that they will save the rest

801
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,950
Speaker 6: of us, which history shows is a pretty bad idea,

802
00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:31,830
Speaker 6: at least from my view.

803
00:41:31,930 --> 00:41:35,110
Speaker 1: I don't think anyone wants this except the people at

804
00:41:35,170 --> 00:41:38,919
Speaker 1: the top. Can you explain why all of them seem

805
00:41:38,940 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 1: kind of nuts? Like, there's not one where you're like,

806
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: this one's the sane one. You see pictures of them.

807
00:41:45,820 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: You hear them talking. I've now listened to Karp. I've

808
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,820
Speaker 1: listened to Thiel. I've listened to Musk. No one seems

809
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,620
Speaker 1: even as sane as like Marco.

810
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,210
Speaker 5: I think there's a couple of things at play here.

811
00:41:55,489 --> 00:41:57,830
Speaker 6: I think that if you are a person who gets

812
00:41:57,870 --> 00:42:00,549
Speaker 6: up in the morning and truly believes that you are

813
00:42:00,650 --> 00:42:03,250
Speaker 6: one of the five or ten people on Earth who

814
00:42:03,270 --> 00:42:06,470
Speaker 6: can save civilization from ruin and that it is really

815
00:42:06,489 --> 00:42:08,950
Speaker 6: in your hands to do so. you are going to

816
00:42:09,010 --> 00:42:12,940
Speaker 6: appear to the rest of us as unhinged and strange. Now,

817
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,340
Speaker 6: on one hand, I think we all revere the writers

818
00:42:15,380 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 6: and artists who have been a little bit different and

819
00:42:18,219 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 6: yet inspired us with their great art, right? But on

820
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,969
Speaker 6: the other hand, when we give a few people, whether

821
00:42:24,030 --> 00:42:28,330
Speaker 6: they're religious extremists or they're technocratic leaders, almost unlimited power,

822
00:42:28,750 --> 00:42:32,089
Speaker 6: with no accountability, no threat that they'll be held to

823
00:42:32,110 --> 00:42:34,700
Speaker 6: the rule of law, no threat that they'll be punished

824
00:42:34,739 --> 00:42:38,770
Speaker 6: if they do wrong. And the money, the resources, the military,

825
00:42:39,010 --> 00:42:41,900
Speaker 6: the influence, If all of that is given to them,

826
00:42:42,260 --> 00:42:46,060
Speaker 6: then that eccentricity and that seemingly disregard for the rest

827
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 6: of us starts to appear rather than quirky or lovable.

828
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:52,779
Speaker 6: It starts to feel like this is really dangerous if

829
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,979
Speaker 6: we give these men complete control over where we're headed

830
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 6: in an age of climate crisis, AI, income inequality, and

831
00:42:59,120 --> 00:42:59,540
Speaker 6: all the rest.

832
00:42:59,820 --> 00:43:03,740
Speaker 1: I'd love you to explain sort of what you think

833
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: can stop this.

834
00:43:05,340 --> 00:43:07,730
Speaker 6: So this is a really tough question because I think,

835
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:10,310
Speaker 6: you know, every day we get new reports about the

836
00:43:10,330 --> 00:43:13,730
Speaker 6: powers of AI. We get new whistleblowers from Silicon Valley

837
00:43:13,770 --> 00:43:16,529
Speaker 6: saying this is really dangerous. I think we also see

838
00:43:16,710 --> 00:43:19,230
Speaker 6: in our government the kinds of religious extremists that I

839
00:43:19,370 --> 00:43:21,670
Speaker 6: talk about in the book gaining more and more influence.

840
00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:24,610
Speaker 6: A decade or two ago, Doug Wilson was a nobody

841
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 6: in a very rural part of the country. And now

842
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 6: he has planted a church in the center of D.C.

843
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,380
Speaker 6: for the express purpose of Pete Hexeth being able to attend.

844
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 6: That shows you where we are, I think, as a

845
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:38,399
Speaker 6: country in terms of the influence of these kinds of folks.

846
00:43:38,820 --> 00:43:42,330
Speaker 6: What history shows us is that men like this and

847
00:43:42,350 --> 00:43:45,890
Speaker 6: their arrogance mean that they completely underestimate the people. One

848
00:43:45,910 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 6: of the cases I make in the book is the

849
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 6: oldest piece of literature we have. In an age of AI,

850
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 6: when people don't read anymore and all this kind of stuff,

851
00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:54,310
Speaker 6: the oldest piece of literature we have is Gilgamesh. And

852
00:43:54,350 --> 00:43:58,270
Speaker 6: Gilgamesh is a semi-divine king who thinks he can disregard

853
00:43:58,310 --> 00:44:01,310
Speaker 6: everyone else and essentially rule the world. And by the

854
00:44:01,370 --> 00:44:05,110
Speaker 6: end of the tale, we know he recognizes his mortality

855
00:44:05,410 --> 00:44:07,880
Speaker 6: as he returns to his city and really accepts the

856
00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:10,060
Speaker 6: fact that he's part and parcel of the human condition.

857
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:13,339
Speaker 6: We the people have more power than them, but we

858
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,760
Speaker 6: have to tell a better story. One of the issues

859
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 6: I have is when we say we need to save democracy,

860
00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:20,819
Speaker 6: a lot of folks under 40, democracy is an empty

861
00:44:20,860 --> 00:44:21,860
Speaker 6: shell because.

862
00:44:21,739 --> 00:44:22,580
Speaker 5: It's never worked for them.

863
00:44:22,940 --> 00:44:25,570
Speaker 6: They've lived in an age when they're 26 or 36

864
00:44:25,570 --> 00:44:28,049
Speaker 6: years old where Donald Trump's been a political figure for

865
00:44:28,110 --> 00:44:30,770
Speaker 6: most of their adult life. They've lived through a Congress

866
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:33,330
Speaker 6: that doesn't ever get anything done. They live through a

867
00:44:33,350 --> 00:44:36,110
Speaker 6: generation that doesn't seem to care about the climate crisis.

868
00:44:36,310 --> 00:44:38,150
Speaker 6: And so when we say we need to save democracy,

869
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:40,410
Speaker 6: we have to fill that in with a story that says,

870
00:44:40,730 --> 00:44:42,870
Speaker 6: here's what we're going to accomplish together. I want to

871
00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:45,980
Speaker 6: invite you into our effort to make a country that

872
00:44:46,100 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 6: not only resets before the time of Trump and MAGA

873
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,340
Speaker 6: and AI and whatever's happening out of Silicon Valley, but

874
00:44:52,500 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 6: we're going to tell a story that we can all

875
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 6: participate in that looks like human flourishing. One of the

876
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:00,450
Speaker 6: things I learned as a young evangelical when I converted

877
00:45:00,489 --> 00:45:03,650
Speaker 6: to that faith was the power of narrative and giving

878
00:45:03,730 --> 00:45:06,950
Speaker 6: people a character to play in a really important story.

879
00:45:07,390 --> 00:45:09,529
Speaker 6: And if we just get out there and trot out

880
00:45:09,550 --> 00:45:11,410
Speaker 6: the line that we're going to save democracy, I think

881
00:45:11,450 --> 00:45:12,930
Speaker 6: a lot of people are going to think to themselves,

882
00:45:13,150 --> 00:45:14,180
Speaker 6: I don't even know what that means.

883
00:45:14,219 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 5: And that word is an empty signifier.

884
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,439
Speaker 6: So if we fill it in with something that looks

885
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,270
Speaker 6: hopeful and beautiful and powerful, we always have the power.

886
00:45:22,370 --> 00:45:26,310
Speaker 6: Why do you.

887
00:45:26,430 --> 00:45:30,529
Speaker 1: Think Teal moved to South America? Because, I mean, he

888
00:45:30,590 --> 00:45:32,980
Speaker 1: seemed like he was winning. And I thought it was

889
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: strange to me. Like, I understand there were a lot

890
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: of billionaires who got homes in Australia and New Zealand,

891
00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:43,629
Speaker 1: mostly New Zealand, not Australia. And that was because they

892
00:45:43,670 --> 00:45:46,910
Speaker 1: thought there was an apocalypse coming. But the point is,

893
00:45:47,110 --> 00:45:50,969
Speaker 1: you can understand that a little bit better. But why

894
00:45:51,070 --> 00:45:55,259
Speaker 1: does Teal, on the wings of victory, basically controlling the

895
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 1: American government, decide to move to South America?

896
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think there's there's a couple of things to

897
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:02,460
Speaker 6: take into consideration here. One is Teal and much of

898
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,010
Speaker 6: the Silicon Valley monarchists that I profile in the book.

899
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,500
Speaker 5: As well as many of the.

900
00:46:07,469 --> 00:46:10,629
Speaker 6: Christian supremacists under 40, they really see Donald Trump as

901
00:46:10,870 --> 00:46:13,150
Speaker 6: the first part of what needs to take place. They

902
00:46:13,190 --> 00:46:15,870
Speaker 6: don't see Trump as a divine figure. They don't see

903
00:46:15,930 --> 00:46:18,170
Speaker 6: him as even really doing what he promised to do.

904
00:46:18,450 --> 00:46:21,850
Speaker 6: They're really disappointed. Peter Thiel soured on Donald Trump a

905
00:46:21,870 --> 00:46:24,430
Speaker 6: long time ago. So I think that's number one. Number two,

906
00:46:24,750 --> 00:46:27,069
Speaker 6: one of the things that Thiel hasn't invested in over

907
00:46:27,110 --> 00:46:30,650
Speaker 6: the years has been this idea of network states that

908
00:46:30,670 --> 00:46:32,490
Speaker 6: are independent economic zones.

909
00:46:32,610 --> 00:46:33,930
Speaker 2: Didn't they start one?

910
00:46:34,190 --> 00:46:35,150
Speaker 5: But they've started several.

911
00:46:35,469 --> 00:46:38,739
Speaker 6: And he's always funding young entrepreneurs who are promising to

912
00:46:38,780 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 6: figure this out. You know, one one really good example

913
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 6: is he worked with Patty Friedman, Milton Friedman's grandson on seasteading.

914
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 4: Right.

915
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,380
Speaker 6: They were going to create Waterworld essentially all over the place.

916
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:51,049
Speaker 5: To me, the move to.

917
00:46:51,090 --> 00:46:55,950
Speaker 6: Argentina signaled his understanding of two things. One, Trump is unstable.

918
00:46:56,380 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 6: And the United States is unstable. And he is going

919
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:01,100
Speaker 6: to go there to kind of wait out the next

920
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 6: chapter and see what happens. Two, this is what powerful,

921
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 6: unaccountable absentee.

922
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 5: Dads do, right? They ruin your life and then they leave.

923
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: What's the other reason?

924
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,989
Speaker 6: Well, I think the other reason is this independent economic zone.

925
00:47:12,090 --> 00:47:16,130
Speaker 6: They dream of having their own kingdoms, their own fiefdoms.

926
00:47:16,230 --> 00:47:18,870
Speaker 6: They're places where no one can regulate. No one can

927
00:47:19,270 --> 00:47:23,009
Speaker 6: bureaucratically stand in their way. No elected official can hold

928
00:47:23,090 --> 00:47:25,290
Speaker 6: up some sort of obstacle. So I think the move

929
00:47:25,310 --> 00:47:28,050
Speaker 6: to Argentina is a move closer to a part of

930
00:47:28,070 --> 00:47:30,790
Speaker 6: the world where he sees that kind of dream as possible.

931
00:47:31,010 --> 00:47:33,930
Speaker 6: I don't think it means he's done influencing or interfering

932
00:47:34,090 --> 00:47:37,009
Speaker 6: in American politics or culture. I think if Donald Trump

933
00:47:37,050 --> 00:47:39,890
Speaker 6: dies in office and J.D. Vance becomes president, he'll be

934
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 6: over the moon and we'll see that, you know, those

935
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,419
Speaker 6: machinations come to light once again.

936
00:47:44,780 --> 00:47:46,959
Speaker 1: But Elon is not disappointed with Trump.

937
00:47:47,219 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 6: You know, Elon and Donald Trump have this on-again, off-again romance.

938
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 6: And I think for Elon, Donald Trump is useful at times.

939
00:47:54,820 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 6: I think Elon's going to pour $ 120 million into the

940
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,950
Speaker 6: midterms because he sees a possibility for a kind of

941
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:05,850
Speaker 6: Western civilizational chauvinism and populism to take hold in the

942
00:48:05,890 --> 00:48:08,089
Speaker 6: United States even more than it already has? Does that

943
00:48:08,130 --> 00:48:10,250
Speaker 6: mean that he holds Trump at high esteem and he

944
00:48:10,310 --> 00:48:14,569
Speaker 6: thinks Trump's every move and every policy is wise and

945
00:48:14,810 --> 00:48:15,390
Speaker 6: what he would want?

946
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:16,820
Speaker 5: I don't actually think that.

947
00:48:16,950 --> 00:48:19,540
Speaker 6: I think Elon has convinced himself that he's going to

948
00:48:19,620 --> 00:48:23,540
Speaker 6: help save Western civilization and the world by getting rid

949
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:27,600
Speaker 6: of Muslims, persecuting the queer community, ensuring that migrants are

950
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:32,100
Speaker 6: not allowed to travel to Western Europe or the making

951
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,390
Speaker 6: it possible for us to move to Mars someday, at

952
00:48:34,430 --> 00:48:36,750
Speaker 6: least a few of us who are left after the

953
00:48:36,930 --> 00:48:37,450
Speaker 6: dust settles.

954
00:48:37,489 --> 00:48:38,830
Speaker 5: So does he love Trump?

955
00:48:38,989 --> 00:48:40,410
Speaker 6: No, I mean, not in the way that you're going

956
00:48:40,430 --> 00:48:43,049
Speaker 6: to hear some of the pastors like Mike Huckabee talk about,

957
00:48:43,430 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 6: or you're going to hear from Trump's cabinet who have

958
00:48:45,820 --> 00:48:47,739
Speaker 6: to do the dear leader speeches every time they have

959
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 6: a meeting.

960
00:48:48,420 --> 00:48:50,620
Speaker 5: I think when Trump's useful, Elon engages.

961
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 2: This is so depressing.

962
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: But I always love talking to you because you're so

963
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:59,440
Speaker 1: smart and interesting. And this is something we have to

964
00:48:59,460 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: really keep our eye on because they're trying to rule

965
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:02,580
Speaker 1: us all.

966
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,420
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm not the funnest at parties, but I'm

967
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 6: fairly fun at parties. So, like, I promise if anyone

968
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,859
Speaker 6: invites me to a party, I won't talk like this.

969
00:49:09,100 --> 00:49:09,380
Speaker 3: OK?

970
00:49:09,580 --> 00:49:12,319
Speaker 2: No, that was great. Really appreciate you. Thank you for

971
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:13,009
Speaker 2: coming on.

972
00:49:13,110 --> 00:49:14,860
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.

973
00:49:16,450 --> 00:49:19,130
Speaker 2: And now your moment of fuckery.

974
00:49:20,030 --> 00:49:24,170
Speaker 3: Cannon somali the u.s billionaires are lining up to bankroll

975
00:49:24,210 --> 00:49:28,299
Speaker 3: republicans election push and um i just can't help but

976
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,540
Speaker 3: think if we had just put a wealth tax on

977
00:49:31,580 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 3: these people a little bit more and if we just

978
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,540
Speaker 3: do it now that we could have a lot less of.

979
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 2: This I think a wealth tax for sure.

980
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:40,420
Speaker 1: I mean, if you have over a billion dollars, your

981
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,570
Speaker 1: money makes so much money you can never spend it,

982
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,060
Speaker 1: even if you would live like the Shah of Iran. OK,

983
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: so like, let's just chill out here. But I also

984
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:54,140
Speaker 1: think like Citizens United, like we had caps on this

985
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,899
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. So it meant even if you were

986
00:49:56,980 --> 00:50:00,180
Speaker 1: very rich, even if you had gazillions of dollars, you

987
00:50:00,219 --> 00:50:04,529
Speaker 1: wouldn't be able to just bankroll indefinitely. The other thing, though,

988
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:06,450
Speaker 1: so I mean, I think this is a case of

989
00:50:06,489 --> 00:50:09,489
Speaker 1: having overturned Cents United and made it so that there's

990
00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:11,489
Speaker 1: no cap on what people can give. But the other

991
00:50:11,530 --> 00:50:14,069
Speaker 1: thing that I think is worth looking at is like

992
00:50:14,070 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 1: 16 of the country's 20 largest donors. This is an

993
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:20,700
Speaker 1: FT analysis are supporting the Republicans. And like there's a

994
00:50:20,820 --> 00:50:22,380
Speaker 1: reason for that. Right.

995
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,370
Speaker 2: Because they care about taxes.

996
00:50:24,390 --> 00:50:24,690
Speaker 1: Right.

997
00:50:24,850 --> 00:50:26,850
Speaker 2: And they don't want to get more taxes. They don't

998
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:28,689
Speaker 2: care about the climate.

999
00:50:28,750 --> 00:50:32,670
Speaker 1: They don't care about regulating technology to keep it from

1000
00:50:32,710 --> 00:50:36,230
Speaker 1: killing us all. They don't care about, you know, rights

1001
00:50:36,310 --> 00:50:40,030
Speaker 1: for women because their daughters can always go to Europe

1002
00:50:40,050 --> 00:50:40,940
Speaker 1: to have an abortion.

1003
00:50:41,060 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 2: They don't care.

1004
00:50:41,580 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Like these are the things

1005
00:50:43,460 --> 00:50:47,520
Speaker 1: they don't care about. They don't care about a better America.

1006
00:50:47,540 --> 00:50:50,580
Speaker 1: They don't care about health care. They don't care about climate.

1007
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:55,940
Speaker 2: Clean energy. Like they only care about themselves.

1008
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,430
Speaker 1: And so I think this is like a really stark

1009
00:50:59,590 --> 00:51:04,070
Speaker 1: contrast here. I also do think like the four largest donors,

1010
00:51:04,130 --> 00:51:05,970
Speaker 1: like good for them also.

1011
00:51:06,050 --> 00:51:07,250
Speaker 2: Like it's OK.

1012
00:51:07,469 --> 00:51:10,890
Speaker 1: I mean, to celebrate Soros, like that's good for him

1013
00:51:10,969 --> 00:51:17,510
Speaker 1: for doing that and not just completely being self-obsessed. Special

1014
00:51:17,590 --> 00:51:22,370
Speaker 1: interest groups, crypto entrepreneurs. These are Republicans. Cameron and Tyler

1015
00:51:22,430 --> 00:51:28,630
Speaker 1: Winklevoss donate 11 million. Mark Andreessen and Ben Horowitz, basically

1016
00:51:28,650 --> 00:51:30,850
Speaker 1: the two women. worst people in the world yeah big

1017
00:51:30,910 --> 00:51:36,260
Speaker 1: liars uh open ai 25 you know no going back

1018
00:51:36,420 --> 00:51:42,800
Speaker 1: pac has booked more than 89 million in advertising maga

1019
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,350
Speaker 1: inc i mean you know elon musk who has spent

1020
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:51,990
Speaker 1: more than 250 million on trump's 24 election is stepping

1021
00:51:52,070 --> 00:51:57,830
Speaker 1: up his support these guys are going to be drowning.

1022
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,380
Speaker 2: In cash And and there you are.

1023
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,090
Speaker 1: So I think it's going to be, you know, it

1024
00:52:04,130 --> 00:52:06,190
Speaker 1: may close the gap for them, but it may not.

1025
00:52:06,450 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 2: I mean, we're just going to have to say.

1026
00:52:08,810 --> 00:52:13,219
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1027
00:52:13,580 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best

1028
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,340
Speaker 1: minds in politics make sense of all this chaos. If

1029
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:26,460
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

1030
00:52:26,940 --> 00:52:28,540
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going.

1031
00:52:28,940 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.