Speaker 1: On March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, two armed and masked
Speaker 1: men robbed a bank in Saint Louis, Missouri, and fatally
Speaker 1: shot a security guard named Richard Heflin in the process.
Speaker 1: As part of their plan to destroy evidence innovade capture.
Speaker 1: They had pre soaked the getaway van with gasoline, but
Speaker 1: before they got to switch from the van to a
Speaker 1: second getaway vehicle, the van caught fire. One assailant, Norris Holder,
Speaker 1: was arrested at the scene, but the second assailant escaped.
Speaker 1: Then was described as a black man about five to nine,
Speaker 1: with singed hair and an injured right hand. Norris Holder
Speaker 1: told investigators that the escape bee was named John, but
Speaker 1: later changed that name to Bill. Police arrested an acquaintance
Speaker 1: of Holders named Billy Allen. Other than being black, Billy
Speaker 1: did not match the initial descriptions, but curiously was somehow
Speaker 1: identified by four witnesses, including Holder. Imagine being selected for
Speaker 1: this and hearing investigators testify about an alleged confession, as
Speaker 1: well as that four witnesses, including the only other assailant,
Speaker 1: identify Billy Allen. You might feel pretty confident in your verdict,
Speaker 1: Yet here we are almost a quarter century later to
Speaker 1: publicly reveal for the very first time case breaking exculpatory
Speaker 1: evidence from the state's own files that was ignored by
Speaker 1: both the prosecution and the defense that I mentioned, they
Speaker 1: send them to death. This is wrongful Conviction. Welcome back
Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction. Today, we're going to do something I
Speaker 1: don't think we've ever done before, which is that we're
Speaker 1: covering a federal death penalty case. And we're honored. I'm
Speaker 1: honored to have Professor Mark Howard, leader of the Making
Speaker 1: An exana reprogram at Georgetown. So Mark, Welcome back to
Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 2: Great to be back, Jason, thanks.
Speaker 1: And with Mark is his distinguished co professor who has
Speaker 1: also been on the podcast before more than once for
Speaker 1: the right and the wrong reasons. Marty Tankliffe was wrongfully
Speaker 1: convicted himself and served seventeen years when Marty was wrongfully
Speaker 1: convicted of murdering his parents, and of course he's been
Speaker 1: exonerated and we've become great friends. And he also is
Speaker 1: Mark's childhood friend and the co professor now at Georgetown
Speaker 1: of the Making It exana reprogram. So Marty Tankliffe es choir.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: You know, the fact that we're all here today is
Speaker 1: a beautiful thing, but it's also an extremely troubling thing
Speaker 1: because we're here today to talk about Billy Allen, who
Speaker 1: has been on death row in the federal system for
Speaker 1: a quarter of a century now, ever since he was
Speaker 1: nineteen years old.
Speaker 3: I appreciate you, you know, you all taking an interest in
Speaker 3: my story and wanting to tell it.
Speaker 1: Well, Billy, yours is a story that definitely needs to
Speaker 1: be told, so welcome to the show. But before we
Speaker 1: get into all the details, i'd love to hear about
Speaker 1: your life before this horrible scenario took place.
Speaker 3: You know, I grew up in a house with three
Speaker 3: sisters on the north side of Saint Louis, which was
Speaker 3: I guess you can say, flooded with drugs, a lot
Speaker 3: of violence and stuff like that. Even though I lived
Speaker 3: in the underprivileged neighborhood, I went to school in a
Speaker 3: privileged neighborhood. Clayton, Missouri, is considered probably one of the
Speaker 3: wealthiest places in Missouri. You know, no matter if I
Speaker 3: go out to the Clayton School district and I'm around
Speaker 3: rich people, I still have to deal with my surroundings
Speaker 3: when I come home, You're like, where do I fit
Speaker 3: in in things?
Speaker 1: It sounds like you had a foothold in these two
Speaker 1: sort of hoppers worlds of haves and have nots, which
Speaker 1: sounds like you could be pretty confusing. So after you
Speaker 1: graduated high school and leading up to March of ninety seven,
Speaker 1: what were you up to.
Speaker 3: To be honest with people, You know, I was hustling
Speaker 3: at the time. You know, I wasn't a big drobe
Speaker 3: dealer or anything like that. I was just hustling at
Speaker 3: the time. But at the same time, I was trying
Speaker 3: to find my way at the time, and that's why
Speaker 3: I met the you know, the girl I ended up
Speaker 3: with who I was going to move in with, you know,
Speaker 3: because basically I was going to get a job, stop
Speaker 3: selling drugs and just I guess you could say, start
Speaker 3: my growth. Not only for her, but she had a daughter,
Speaker 3: so I was trying to be better for all of them.
Speaker 1: So you were at a crossroads, and it sounds like
Speaker 1: you were choosing a more promising path. But your connection
Speaker 1: to the old neighborhood happened to bring you into contact
Speaker 1: with one of the actual bank robbers, in this case,
Speaker 1: Norris Holder. You had met him through job corps once
Speaker 1: and then had a chance encounter with him years later.
Speaker 1: Apparently you had sold him some weed once or vice versa,
Speaker 1: and it was this chance meeting and short lived hangout
Speaker 1: just a few days before Holder committed this crime that
Speaker 1: even put you into the realm of possibilities. I mean,
Speaker 1: how well did you even know this older guy?
Speaker 3: Well, I didn't know Holder per se. I guess you
Speaker 3: can say the way they tried to, you know, sell
Speaker 3: the story to my jury. When I was at the
Speaker 3: club one day older I knew one of his friends
Speaker 3: he was with, you know, just from my neighborhood, and
Speaker 3: so you know, we end up just talking. So he's like, hey, look,
Speaker 3: you know, let's hook up one day just being cordial
Speaker 3: with people. Plus up. Like I said, I knew the
Speaker 3: guy he was with. Then a few days, you know later,
Speaker 3: I get a call from him, you know, basically like
Speaker 3: hey man, you know, I'm going to go to the
Speaker 3: mall and you know, I got some weed and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 3: well I'm in now. But for them to make it
Speaker 3: seem like we were friend, we were plot in this
Speaker 3: crime or anything like that, how can you say that
Speaker 3: that I would involve myself, you know, in a crime
Speaker 3: of this magnitude with somebody I didn't even know.
Speaker 1: Right, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot
Speaker 1: of sense until you consider the investigators in this case,
Speaker 1: one of whom Joseph Nickerson is on the Saint Louis
Speaker 1: DA's do not testify list, which is, by the way,
Speaker 1: exactly what it sounds like. He's not allowed to testify
Speaker 1: in cases because he lies so much. He's the detective,
Speaker 1: by the way, from another egregious, wrongful convictioning case out
Speaker 1: of Saint Louis, Lamar Johnson, who is still awaiting justice.
Speaker 1: And Lamar also did some drug dealing, as did Billy,
Speaker 1: so they were typical targets for this Nickerson guy. In
Speaker 1: Lamar's case, Nickerson fabricated a narrative from alleged witness statements,
Speaker 1: but these witnesses later denied saying any of the things
Speaker 1: Nickerson had attributed to them, So, you know, just sat
Speaker 1: around just making shit up. He perjured himself to make
Speaker 1: Lamar's culpability even plausible. And then there's a cash incentivized
Speaker 1: eyewitness who was convinced by investigators that the mass gunman
Speaker 1: in this case was Lamar Johnson. So he went along
Speaker 1: with the ID, which you'll see in it a bit
Speaker 1: sounds eerily similar to what happened in this case. Now,
Speaker 1: I believe his partner, a guy named Carol, is actually
Speaker 1: doing time now for assaulting someone who was in custody.
Speaker 1: So it's patterns like these that give a helpful context
Speaker 1: to what happened in Billie's case. So let's get to that.
Speaker 1: The morning of March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, where were
Speaker 1: you actually that paidful morning?
Speaker 3: I had left the house early that morning, like at
Speaker 3: eight o'clock in the morning. They claimed that I had
Speaker 3: called holder and told them let's get ready for the
Speaker 3: crime and all this stuff from the house. But how
Speaker 3: can I call you from the house when I'm already gone,
Speaker 3: you know. So I get to the mall early in
Speaker 3: the morning, and my first stop is to the hat Zone.
Speaker 3: So I went to foot Locker, and I went to
Speaker 3: another story foot quarters, and right after that, I went
Speaker 3: to Famous and Barb, which is a clothing store. I
Speaker 3: went to this tuxedo place, and so as I'm shopping,
Speaker 3: basically I see Chris Hiagog. Now Chris Chigag is a
Speaker 3: security guard who was after the mall to pick up
Speaker 3: his paycheck. He was like, Hey, I'm just going to
Speaker 3: pick up my check and I plan to go to
Speaker 3: another mall to do some shopping and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, well, can I ride with you? I
Speaker 3: was like, look, I just got to drop a few
Speaker 3: items off to a girl I was dating, and so
Speaker 3: he was like okay. So he went to pick up
Speaker 3: his check and we left them all and I dropped
Speaker 3: off a few eyed them for her baby and basically
Speaker 3: gave her some money because we were moving in together.
Speaker 3: And left.
Speaker 1: So you'd been out of the house since eight am.
Speaker 1: At the mall where you visited several stores, made several
Speaker 1: points of contact, and I'm talking about people who were
Speaker 1: disinterested alibi witnesses to people who didn't know you. And
Speaker 1: there was also surveillance footage. So all the great alibi
Speaker 1: evidence that places you away from the scene at the
Speaker 1: time of the crime, none of it was investigated or
Speaker 1: later presented on your behalf. So while you were shopping
Speaker 1: across town, there was this bank robbery going on at
Speaker 1: the Lindell Bank and Trust, which is Caddy Corner from
Speaker 1: this huge park in Saint Louis that houses, the Saint
Speaker 1: Louis Zoo, several museums, landmarks on golf course, this skating rink,
Speaker 1: and this area is known as Forest Park. Again. This
Speaker 1: is March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, around ten thirty five am,
Speaker 1: when two masked and armed men busted down the door
Speaker 1: and told everybody to get on the ground.
Speaker 2: There were two bank robbers who stole fifty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: and a security guard named Richard Heflin was killed in
Speaker 2: the process of that robbery, and then the two men
Speaker 2: left the scene in a getaway van, drove to Forest
Speaker 2: Park and they had a plan apparently to set the
Speaker 2: van on fire and then get away in a different
Speaker 2: vehicle that they planted there. But the van had actually
Speaker 2: been pre soaked in gasoline and exploded and caught on
Speaker 2: fire inside the park before sort of the full extent
Speaker 2: of their plan and getaway plan could work. And so
Speaker 2: the driver, a guy named Norris Holder, was still on
Speaker 2: fire himself and was pulled out of the car, and
Speaker 2: then the second suspect ran away.
Speaker 1: So Holder was in custody almost immediately. And I've listened
Speaker 1: to the dispatch tapes from that morning. It sounds pretty chaotic,
Speaker 1: but ultimately it sounds like a team of folks trying
Speaker 1: to bring the bank robbers and murderers of this bank
Speaker 1: security guard to justice. And this is so important. Every
Speaker 1: one of them described a blackmail about five eight to
Speaker 1: five ten, wearing gray sweats and a blue and red
Speaker 1: colored jacket, and they said he had singed hair understandably
Speaker 1: since a pan was on fire, and an injured right hand.
Speaker 3: They never described the person with a beard. And I
Speaker 3: had a beard at the time. So if I was
Speaker 3: the person who walked up to you and asked you
Speaker 3: for directions, wouldn't that be one of the most descriptive
Speaker 3: things you can point out about an individual.
Speaker 1: Had it actually been you, they would have mentioned a beard, right,
Speaker 1: That's a pretty big detail for everybody to leave out,
Speaker 1: But they did not say that. They also would have
Speaker 1: said over six to two instead of around five to nine.
Speaker 1: Big difference there. Six' two is tall five to. Nine
Speaker 1: most people would say short for it. Man and when
Speaker 1: you were eventually picked, up your right hand was not
Speaker 1: injured and your hair was not burned in any. Way
Speaker 1: so if you listen to all of the dispatch tapes
Speaker 1: as we, did the story remains the. Same in the immediate,
Speaker 1: aftermath the assailant came over a hill from the direction
Speaker 1: of the burning. Van he went toward the fence line
Speaker 1: and allegedly told them that his van caught fire and
Speaker 1: he needed to get to the metro.
Speaker 3: Link both park, workers you, know when they first came,
Speaker 3: forward they claimed that all they did was gave him
Speaker 3: directions to the metro. Link the thing about it, is
Speaker 3: when we get the, trial both park workers change their.
Speaker 3: Story they claim they gave the person a ride outside
Speaker 3: of the. Park do you KNOW i have their actual
Speaker 3: recordings were police officer is standing right with, them calling
Speaker 3: in the, dispatch.
Speaker 4: Supervisor horstory workers and all these second subject he was
Speaker 4: running east from the burning van by a construction. Trailer
Speaker 4: this about J. George they had right over here by
Speaker 4: the fence. Line there's a hole in the.
Speaker 5: Fence one with who had exactly when he.
Speaker 3: With?
Speaker 4: Them and that's what we got to don't want. That
Speaker 4: that's what.
Speaker 5: Happened after we had.
Speaker 4: IT i took it.
Speaker 5: Off the robberies of the point influencer from a guard
Speaker 5: in the block of plate that the subject with plain
Speaker 5: calling under a Fat wilson Near Petual, way the block
Speaker 5: on a pulley.
Speaker 4: Hands and have it on a multi.
Speaker 3: Collars the parkworkers just told them that they gave the person. Directions.
Speaker 1: Right these park, workers along with everyone else at this,
Speaker 1: point were just feeding in whatever they could to help
Speaker 1: nab this. Guy no other. Agenda they pointed him in
Speaker 1: the right direction and he left got away whatever through
Speaker 1: a hole in the. Fence, importantly not in someone's. Car
Speaker 1: giving this assailant a ride outside the park would really
Speaker 1: make for a much more CREDIBLE, id which is why
Speaker 1: we believe this story changed by the time of. Trial
Speaker 1: but back to the immediate. Aftermath, ultimately the effort to
Speaker 1: close in on the second assailant was unsuccessful and they
Speaker 1: were hoping to get something out Of.
Speaker 3: Holder, yeah When holder was, arrested he says the person
Speaker 3: with was some guy Named. John then they threatening him
Speaker 3: with the destiny and, say, hey, look whoever's the least
Speaker 3: culpable is who might get lingency in this. Case so
Speaker 3: basically you need to provide, us you, know with a,
Speaker 3: story you, know or something that can help us out
Speaker 3: or help you. Out so all of a sudden he
Speaker 3: switches From john and he mentions my.
Speaker 1: Name so now he's given them something, concrete a full
Speaker 1: name and not just a name that feels chosen at.
Speaker 3: Random that's the. Thing he didn't even know my last.
Speaker 3: Name he just Said, bill Just.
Speaker 1: Bill that's.
Speaker 3: It i'll show you Where bill. Lives. Now the thing
Speaker 3: about The john situation is, this throughout their, reports there's
Speaker 3: a person NAMED jb who is connected To. Holder we
Speaker 3: THINK jb is his. COUSIN i can't you, KNOW i
Speaker 3: don't want to falsely accuse anybody or anything like, that you,
Speaker 3: know but that this is what the reports are basically.
Speaker 3: Saying it's my belief That holder is using me as
Speaker 3: escapego to protect somebody who is close To.
Speaker 1: So now you had no idea what was coming your.
Speaker 1: Way did you even know that this bank robbery had taken?
Speaker 3: Place, WELL i did see the crime on the news
Speaker 3: when they Arrested, holder and So i'm, like, okay, well you,
Speaker 3: Know i'm not involved in so it doesn't really draw
Speaker 3: my attention to. It next, THING i, Know i'm at the,
Speaker 3: apartment you, know with the GIRL i was living with
Speaker 3: at the, time AND i hear some banging on the
Speaker 3: door and don't know what the hell is going on
Speaker 3: or anything like. THAT fbi and police officers come to my.
Speaker 3: Door they arrest, me and the first THING i tell,
Speaker 3: THEM i had the clothes in everything THAT i had
Speaker 3: bought on the, couch AND i told the, officers, look
Speaker 3: you're arresting the wrong. Person here are all the. Items
Speaker 3: the receipts are still in the. Back the clothes are
Speaker 3: still in the, back And i'm, like, look just go
Speaker 3: to the mall and ask to see the surveillance footage
Speaker 3: and basically you'll see THAT i have an alibi at
Speaker 3: the time the crime took. Place you, know you can't
Speaker 3: beat the. Video and so they were basically just yesing me,
Speaker 3: off and so they took me down to the homicide.
Speaker 3: Office and that's WHEN i kept repeating the same story
Speaker 3: and that they can talk To Christian god who was
Speaker 3: a security guard at the time too fine out whether
Speaker 3: or NOT i was at the.
Speaker 1: Mall, Yeah but, unfortunately they weren't interested in solving the.
Speaker 1: Case they were interested in fixing the facts to match
Speaker 1: the name that they got From Norris. Holder SO i,
Speaker 1: Mean i'm using facts very loosely. There so you were
Speaker 1: arrested around two. Am what happened next.
Speaker 3: WHEN i was in the homicide, Office it's two officers
Speaker 3: that came and talked to Me Thomas carroll And Joseph.
Speaker 3: Nickerson NOW i told both, Officers i'm, like, look you
Speaker 3: all can go to the. Mall you all can get the,
Speaker 3: recordings and you all can see THAT i have an.
Speaker 3: Alibi now they claim they went to the, mall yet
Speaker 3: for some, reason there's no surveillance footage that can be.
Speaker 3: FOUND i believe they have this footage BECAUSE i. Believe
Speaker 3: and here's the. THING i reported about this before The
Speaker 3: Lamar johnson. CASE i reported that they were probably withholding this,
Speaker 3: evidence and come to find out years later they withheld
Speaker 3: recordings In Lamar johnson. Case so it's like a pattern
Speaker 3: down there dealing with these, officers.
Speaker 1: A pattern that is unfortunately press event In Saint, louis
Speaker 1: and let's face, it around this whole country as are
Speaker 1: alleged false confessions or fabricated, statements which we'll get into
Speaker 1: in a. Bit but, first what happened in that interrogation.
Speaker 3: Room WHEN i first came in and as they reported their,
Speaker 3: reports you, know and LIKE i told, them, LOOK i
Speaker 3: didn't have anything to do with the. Crime so this
Speaker 3: is when you, know both you, know officers were, like, okay,
Speaker 3: well if you didn't commit this crime and give us YOUR.
Speaker 3: Dna i'm, like, sure, SHIT i ain't got none to.
Speaker 3: Do what you can have.
Speaker 6: It WHEN i was in, PRISON i used to always
Speaker 6: ask guys who would say they're. Innocent one of the
Speaker 6: first Persons i'd, said would you be willing to do
Speaker 6: A dna? Test and almost ninety nine point nine percent
Speaker 6: of the people who are really innocent, SAID i will
Speaker 6: do A dna, TEST i will do any forensic tests
Speaker 6: THAT i can do to prove my. Innocence And billy
Speaker 6: falls into the category who SAID i want to do
Speaker 6: anything in everything.
Speaker 3: Possible next thing they, do they'd, say the van you
Speaker 3: know that was used in the crime was soaked in,
Speaker 3: gasoline you, know so if you don't have any gasoline
Speaker 3: on your, clothes you, know that can help prove that
Speaker 3: you weren't. There So i'm, like, okay, well, here you
Speaker 3: can have all of my. Clothes SO i willingly gave
Speaker 3: him MY dna and my.
Speaker 2: CLOTHES i mean the fact that this entire case was
Speaker 2: covered in, gasoline so to, speak And billy has none on.
Speaker 1: Him they tested the co defendant his clothes were sure,
Speaker 1: enough every inch of them had gasoline residue on.
Speaker 6: Him billy had a credible. ALIBI dna test results came back.
Speaker 2: Negative they left open the question WHOSE dna is? It
Speaker 2: and that hasn't been, pursued hasn't been, shown but it's
Speaker 2: certainly Not.
Speaker 1: Billy's so take take us back, There billy to the
Speaker 1: interrogation and id.
Speaker 3: Process next THING i, know AN fbi agent comes into the,
Speaker 3: Room Agent Jan. Hartman you, know she started reading my.
Speaker 3: Life this is the first TIME i was ever read my.
Speaker 3: Life So i'm, like, well LOOK i want a lawyer
Speaker 3: from the court. Period i'm done. TALKING i don't have
Speaker 3: anything to. Say you all aren't going to believe. Me,
Speaker 3: so according to her trial, testimony she never told told
Speaker 3: anybody about my request for an. Attorney so one officer comes,
Speaker 3: in he conducted the. Lineup i'm, like, well, look you
Speaker 3: know where's my attorney At and he was, like you,
Speaker 3: know you don't need an attorney for. This i'm, like
Speaker 3: BUT i asked for. One he's, like, well you can
Speaker 3: get one. Afterword so they took me to the. Lineup
Speaker 3: and now here's the crazy part about this. Lineup i'm
Speaker 3: the tallest person in their damn. Lineup they have nobody
Speaker 3: close to six' two in. This lineup nobody who looks
Speaker 3: like me in. This lineup and to make, matters worse
Speaker 3: he puts me in position. NUMBER three i am the
Speaker 3: tallest person in, this Thing and i'm beside the two
Speaker 3: shortest people Inside this, so basically you're giving people the
Speaker 3: person you want them.
Speaker 1: To pick not only is, it suggestive but it's also
Speaker 1: telling about the description they.
Speaker 3: Had exactly, five eight. Five ten and like, our lineup
Speaker 3: a lot of people when they, envision lineup they envision
Speaker 3: you behind the glass and the witnesses are outside of.
Speaker 3: The Thing The saint louis if they have a piece,
Speaker 3: of cloth it's like a black piece of cloth, right
Speaker 3: there so you. Can see you can actually see the
Speaker 3: damn person who's basically, identifying you, you know and you can.
Speaker 3: Hear them and this is just how hilarious my. Lineup
Speaker 3: was This lady. I'll mcgilliam, you know they were, telling,
Speaker 3: her well can you identify the person? You saw she
Speaker 3: picks the person in position. Number, two now if you
Speaker 3: look at this person in my, lineup photo this dude
Speaker 3: has a freaking. Full beard he looks nothing, like me
Speaker 3: and he fished the description that she gave of the
Speaker 3: person she saw at. The crime SO now i hear.
Speaker 3: This guy he comes out, and, say, hey look we
Speaker 3: think it's the guy in position. Number three can we bring?
Speaker 3: Him forward and you look? At him she, was like are?
Speaker 3: You sure he's. Like yeah so they told the number
Speaker 3: two guy go back and they take me out of,
Speaker 3: the lineup and she, was, LIKE yeah i think you might.
Speaker 1: Be.
Speaker 3: Right wow if you go to, my transcripts she will
Speaker 3: tell you she picked the guy in position. Number two
Speaker 3: so why would you pick somebody five a, full beard
Speaker 3: full head, of hair and yet all of a sudden
Speaker 3: you switch your account to somebody six, to two small
Speaker 3: beard at. The time so come to, find out, you
Speaker 3: know in a, dispatch tape she actually is reporting that
Speaker 3: she couldn't even describe the person. She saw this is
Speaker 3: on their. Own recordings so my attorney didn't. Find it
Speaker 3: it was never presented on my defense. Or anything but
Speaker 3: yet this woman was allowed to pick somebody and position
Speaker 3: number two who was clearly DIFFERENT than, i was and
Speaker 3: then basically come to court changed, her story claimed that
Speaker 3: she never told the, Officers that and then we have
Speaker 3: the recordings to prove that the prosecutors presented.
Speaker 1: False testimony and this wasn't the only time the prosecutors
Speaker 1: know only put on false testimony in, this case nor
Speaker 1: was it the last time that one of the quote
Speaker 1: unquote eyewitnesses picked someone out when they had no business
Speaker 1: doing so because they admitted not having seen, the assailant
Speaker 1: like the guy who had followed the van from the
Speaker 1: bank to, The Park.
Speaker 3: William Green william green walked in. The ROOM like, i
Speaker 3: said you can clearly hear what the person is telling the,
Speaker 3: you know talking to. The witnesses he comes in the
Speaker 3: door and he, tells, THEM look i can't. Identify anybody
Speaker 3: you know what the officer, tells him just, Pick anybody
Speaker 3: and that's exactly what. He does he just did a.
Speaker 3: Random pick he never. Picked me but why would you
Speaker 3: even take?
Speaker 1: That chance the same reason we have to remind people
Speaker 1: that black, lives matter as well as why that statement
Speaker 1: is ever met with.
Speaker 3: Any, Pushback exactly, i'm no, full fact my life. Didn't
Speaker 3: matter when you're going, through that when you're sitting in
Speaker 3: this situation and you're hearing these things, going on, you're,
Speaker 3: like man WHAT did i do to? Deserve this why
Speaker 3: are these people doing what they're doing when basically everything
Speaker 3: shows that. They're lying.
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Speaker 1: And individuals so you have two witnesses who admitted in
Speaker 1: front of you that their identifications were. Entirely invalid and
Speaker 1: then you have these two park workers who said that
Speaker 1: they gave the assailant a ride and that the assailant
Speaker 1: was not wearing, a mask so they got a. Good
Speaker 1: look as we already, pointed out the dispatch tapes proved
Speaker 1: that these two accounts were. Also lies they were standing
Speaker 1: there with the police saying that they had pointed the
Speaker 1: assailant towards the, Metrolink.
Speaker 3: Exactly but my attorney never presented. THIS recording i found
Speaker 3: the recorder a couple of, years AGO so i just
Speaker 3: found out about THEM because i kept Telling everybody, i'm,
Speaker 3: LIKE look i know these guys in line they would be,
Speaker 3: you know everybody, was like well we, you know you
Speaker 3: have to. Prove IT so i knew they had turned
Speaker 3: over these dispatch, tape transcripts but they only gave me.
Speaker 3: Six pages do you know the actual recording is over
Speaker 3: an hour and a.
Speaker 1: Half long my producer transcribed. These tapes the ninety minute
Speaker 1: segment you're talking about comes out to thirty, nine pages
Speaker 1: and that's what the artificial intelligence transcriber missing a lot
Speaker 1: of the.
Speaker 3: Actual words, so basically they withheld the fact that they
Speaker 3: knew that both park workers.
Speaker 1: Were lying that or they were counting on your attorney
Speaker 1: not doing. His job so we already Heard about al
Speaker 1: Mcgillion And. William green so what happened when these park
Speaker 1: workers walked into the?
Speaker 3: Lineup Room When william green didn't pick? Me out the,
Speaker 3: officer walked, You Know william, green out and you see
Speaker 3: the two. PARK workers i literally when they opened, the
Speaker 3: door you can see the two park workers standing side
Speaker 3: by side and they, were, like look, you know we
Speaker 3: think it's the guy in position. Number three before they
Speaker 3: even walk into, the room they, were, like, yeah yeah
Speaker 3: it's the guy in position. Number three and the officer, tells,
Speaker 3: him no you all have to come in and identify
Speaker 3: them so we can put it. On record so they
Speaker 3: come in and pick me in position. Number three that's
Speaker 3: how they.
Speaker 1: Got me so this total sham identification procedure where all
Speaker 1: the witnesses are ready and willing to help out the
Speaker 1: boys in blue with whatever. They Need Plus, norris holder
Speaker 1: who's incentivized to try to avoid the, death penalty even
Speaker 1: though that ended up backfiring. For him this is essentially
Speaker 1: the that's all they had. Against you all the, other
Speaker 1: evidence or let's call it what, it is the, actual
Speaker 1: evidence told a totally. Different story They tested holder's clothes
Speaker 1: for traces. Of gasoline i'm talking about, the shoes, his fox,
Speaker 1: his pants, his SHIRT his. T shirt everything he had
Speaker 1: on came back positive for traces. OF gasoline i gave you.
Speaker 3: My clothes not a single trace of gasoline was found.
Speaker 1: On anything and they knew that as well as that
Speaker 1: you didn't match any of the. Physical descriptions you didn't
Speaker 1: have the injury to your right hand that was described by,
Speaker 1: the witnesses an injury that would have explained the blood
Speaker 1: left behind on the strap to a. Bulletproof vest it
Speaker 1: was tested for both yours and THE victims dna. Both
Speaker 1: negative yet still some pile, some way they chose to
Speaker 1: believe holder and basically RIG the. Id process but they
Speaker 1: didn't stop with just. One fix your attorney could have
Speaker 1: found all of. This evidence so they needed, some, more right,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: They wanted me to confess to, the CRIME and i
Speaker 3: TOLD them i don't have anything to do with.
Speaker 1: This crime so you maintained your. Innocence throughout you were
Speaker 1: quote unquote idd in that. Fixed lineup but now when
Speaker 1: you're going, to trial you. Receive discovery NEXT thing, I
Speaker 1: know i read a report a few.
Speaker 3: Days later basically he's SAYING that i confessed to.
Speaker 1: The crime there's, get this not a single piece of
Speaker 1: evidence to show that a confession ever.
Speaker 2: Took, place well, to me it's a perfect example of
Speaker 2: a larger phenomenon that we, know well which is that
Speaker 2: when there's this pressure to close, the case they'll start
Speaker 2: making shit up so they feel like they need a
Speaker 2: little bit More on billy Onll, so hey, He, confessed
Speaker 2: well where's the evidence of this confession?
Speaker 1: Was?
Speaker 2: Recorded no were?
Speaker 3: Their?
Speaker 2: Notes, yes okay then where are? The notes we don't have?
Speaker 2: Them anymore we. Lost them we threw. IT away, i mean,
Speaker 2: come on that's, just bullshit beginning middle.
Speaker 1: To end they didn't even say they, lost it which would,
Speaker 1: have like, you know they said they threw. It away,
Speaker 1: SO yeah i mean they threw away the only evidence
Speaker 1: that they had that this alleged confession ever. Took. Place,
Speaker 1: Yeah no i'm. Not dumb i'm.
Speaker 2: Not really usually they say it was lost in. A
Speaker 2: flood we've heard that in a number. Of, cases yeah we,
Speaker 2: had it but it was lost in. A flood in,
Speaker 2: this case, they, say no we threw.
Speaker 3: It away they claimed that after the, LINE up i
Speaker 3: demanded to speak To A lieutenant HENDERSON because i alludedly
Speaker 3: knew him from a. Previous case the previous case they
Speaker 3: mentioned is a friend. Of mine he. Was murdered we
Speaker 3: were the victims in, that case and basically they so
Speaker 3: they used my friend's murder to SAY that i confessed
Speaker 3: to this black OFFICER because i knew HIM and i. Trusted,
Speaker 3: HIM now i kept telling, My lawyers, I'M like i
Speaker 3: don't even know. This guy ONE thing i do know
Speaker 3: is that when my friend, was killed there wasn't one
Speaker 3: black officer that came to the crime scene. That day,
Speaker 3: So basically i'm telling my lawyer to look for this
Speaker 3: police REPORT so i can prove that they manufactured. This
Speaker 3: line he. NEVER finded i find this myself a few,
Speaker 3: years later and come to Find out henderson didn't even worked,
Speaker 3: That day so HOW can i ask to confess to
Speaker 3: SOMEBODY that i never even? Met before but we were
Speaker 3: never able to front him.
Speaker 1: With that there was a lot of bullshit slinging at
Speaker 1: your trial and a near total abdication of duty by your,
Speaker 1: defense attorney who could have done so much more with
Speaker 1: what was available to him to discredit this horrendous lie
Speaker 1: that perhaps even the jury, saw through but they most
Speaker 1: definitely were not provided with what they needed to see
Speaker 1: the real time truth in. THIS case, i mean let's,
Speaker 1: face it the very least he could have done was
Speaker 1: present the negative gasoline RESIDUE and dna test results that
Speaker 1: would have had a big impact on.
Speaker 2: THE jury, i mean the fact that he didn't even,
Speaker 2: highlight this didn't even make it part of, his case
Speaker 2: part of.
Speaker 1: HIS defense a government forensic expert even testify the trial
Speaker 1: saying that anyone who had been in that van would
Speaker 1: have had gasoline present on. Their clothing yet he just
Speaker 1: didn't seize, that moment probably because he hadn't done his
Speaker 1: freaking homework or he would have known to. DO it,
Speaker 1: i mean any first year law student would have known to.
Speaker 2: Do that and then there's all these different, eyewitness, discrepancies.
Speaker 1: Right and as, we've mentioned there were four alleged, eyewitness
Speaker 1: IDs and considering the dispatch tapes and interview recordings that
Speaker 1: were available, to him more could have been done to
Speaker 1: impeach all. Of them two of, the eyewitnesses, after all
Speaker 1: set on the tapes that they were unable to identify
Speaker 1: the perp on top of what they said and did at.
Speaker 1: The lineup then you've got these two park workers saying
Speaker 1: that they gave the assailant a ride And. Identified billy
Speaker 1: but your attorneys have researched and pointed out that that
Speaker 1: testimony was contradicted by what they had said in their
Speaker 1: initial statements via the. Dispatch tape he didn't present one
Speaker 1: piece of evidence on. My behalf he cross examined these
Speaker 1: witnesses though that's.
Speaker 3: It didn't present not a single thread of all THE
Speaker 3: evidence i found that he had. Access to he didn't even.
Speaker 1: Look, forward so not having done the preparation his cross
Speaker 1: examination among, other things fell.
Speaker 2: Predictably short his public defender did an unconscionably, poor job
Speaker 2: didn't seek any Confirmation of, billie's alibi just sort of
Speaker 2: let it go.
Speaker 6: TO me, i mean you think about somebody goes shopping
Speaker 6: in a very. Public place the first thing you're going
Speaker 6: to do is have an investigator to every, single store speak,
Speaker 6: to people, get videos try to find witnesses.
Speaker 2: DOWN right, i mean there could have been receipts from
Speaker 2: the mall security footage which instantly would Have, cleared billy
Speaker 2: and he didn't do anything and didn't make any attempt to.
Speaker 2: Obtain that, and now of course it's far.
Speaker 1: Too late, of course there was a security guard that
Speaker 1: gave him a ride, As Well. Chris chigag how do
Speaker 1: you not present him or look into when he picked up.
Speaker 1: His paycheck there would have certainly been a record that
Speaker 1: showed that this took place at the time of, the
Speaker 1: crime which would Have. Cleared billy but none of this.
Speaker 1: Was Done norris holder identified you in an effort to
Speaker 1: save himself and his actual partner in crime from. Death
Speaker 1: row little good that ended up doing for, him. Anyway though,
Speaker 1: and meanwhile there's the first person that he named whose Name.
Speaker 1: Was john this is another lead that could have and
Speaker 1: should have. Been developed but beyond the leads that could have,
Speaker 1: been developed there was everything that was already Available that
Speaker 1: billy has been able to use to prove that the
Speaker 1: witnesses and the police. Were lying which makes this all
Speaker 1: so unbelievable that this ever even made it. To, trial yeah.
Speaker 3: All the Evidence that i'm presented on my behalf is
Speaker 3: in their, Own files so they knew that when they presented,
Speaker 3: this testimony when they conquer this story and claimed all,
Speaker 3: these things they had their actual reports that shows something
Speaker 3: other than what they were actually, Testifying too so it
Speaker 3: wasn't like it was just a lot concocted by. The
Speaker 3: officers the prosecutors basically allowed them to tell these lies
Speaker 3: because they had these fouls with them when they put
Speaker 3: these people on.
Speaker 1: The, stands yeah you think that would make them eligible for?
Speaker 1: Attempted murder and perhaps your trial attorney could be and
Speaker 1: should be considered for criminal negligence because without the defense,
Speaker 1: you needed the jury was left with this pack of
Speaker 1: lies and not. Much else and before we go to
Speaker 1: this trial's, INEVITABLE conclusion i want to talk about this
Speaker 1: really makes. Me sick this electric stun Belt that billy
Speaker 1: was made to wear throughout, The proceedings what in the
Speaker 1: actual fuck is up?
Speaker 2: WITH that i don't, Have, WORDS jason i. Don't know
Speaker 2: it's part of, the dehumanizing degrading PROCESS that i think
Speaker 2: often happens to. Different degrees this is extreme to scare
Speaker 2: into viewing somebody as being responsible and, perhaps worthy so,
Speaker 2: to speak of getting the.
Speaker 3: Death penalty my, thing was you know a lot of
Speaker 3: times you want to, stand up, you know you want
Speaker 3: to tell them, you, know object or you, want to,
Speaker 3: you know, yell, out hey y'are? On menocent or you
Speaker 3: want to yell out to, the jury or you want
Speaker 3: to stand up and, you know kind of, defend yourself
Speaker 3: especially when you're not being defended by, your attorney. You
Speaker 3: know but the thing About, the marshalls they, were, like
Speaker 3: look if you make any, quick movements we're going to
Speaker 3: push the button freaking twenty thousand volts of. FIFTY thousand
Speaker 3: i don't even remember how many volts this. THING is i, don't,
Speaker 3: KNOW man i felt even more IMPRISONED because i couldn't,
Speaker 3: SAY anything i couldn't.
Speaker 1: Do anything they were essentially treating you like cattle and by,
Speaker 1: the way that's not even the way cattle should be.
Speaker 3: Treated exactly if you have TO realize i Wasn't Called.
Speaker 3: BILLY allen i was called a murderous dog by. My
Speaker 3: prosecutor my jury was never allowed to basically see, the
Speaker 3: truth to hold truth for nothing but. The truth they
Speaker 3: got half of a story that was concocted by officers
Speaker 3: that could have easily been disputed. With evidence and so
Speaker 3: That's why i'm kind of hoping that this platform allows
Speaker 3: my jury to hear this stuff, and, say hey you,
Speaker 3: KNOW what I think i made.
Speaker 1: A mistake did you have any hope that they were
Speaker 1: going to see that at. The? Time.
Speaker 3: Oh, NO honestly i told, my mom and this is
Speaker 3: a sad part. ABOUT it i told my mom right before,
Speaker 3: THE verdict, i, Say look i'm going to get. Found
Speaker 3: guilty she, was, like no don't. SAY that, i, say,
Speaker 3: look mom my lawyer isn't going to present, a defense
Speaker 3: so don't. BE surprised i prepared my mom emotionally and
Speaker 3: prepare my family to accept the FACT that i was
Speaker 3: going to get. FOUND guilty i, accepted it. You know
Speaker 3: and then here's. THE thing i wasn't mad at MY
Speaker 3: jury i was more mad at my defense attorney for
Speaker 3: him not defending me and proving to THEM that i.
Speaker 3: Was INNOCENT so i wasn't mad at them BECAUSE if
Speaker 3: i were to sit on, THAT jury i would have
Speaker 3: to find a. Person guilty there WAS nothing i. Could
Speaker 3: do from THE moment i got. Locked up that started
Speaker 3: my mission to prove. My innocence one BECAUSE when i went,
Speaker 3: into court, you know the victim's family, was THERE and
Speaker 3: i saw people looking at me with so much anger
Speaker 3: and so much pain and so, much Hate and, I'M
Speaker 3: like i got people hate me when they have the.
Speaker 3: Wrong Person so, I'm, Like okay i'm going to make
Speaker 3: it my mission to Prove that. I'm missing and, YOU
Speaker 3: know i made that same promise to my mom and.
Speaker 3: Thea sially that started my JOURNEY where i started reading all.
Speaker 3: THE files i read every, single paid every, single sentence, every,
Speaker 3: transcript EVERYTHING and i started putting together. This puzzle and
Speaker 3: when you see the story that they tell at, my
Speaker 3: trial and you see all the evidence that they had
Speaker 3: to show, something different you start to, ask yourself why
Speaker 3: would somebody go this far to convict me for something
Speaker 3: THEY know i, didn't do where their own Evidence proves
Speaker 3: i'm missing hadn't been the Burden that i've had. To carry,
Speaker 3: you know in a sense, Being innocent being innocent is a.
Speaker 3: Burden man, you know every day you're fighting, to live
Speaker 3: you're fighting to prove. Your innocence you're fighting to convince
Speaker 3: judges to do the right thing who won't do the.
Speaker 1: Right thing so your first appeal happened in two thousand,
Speaker 1: and one and it was based On Your fifth amendment
Speaker 1: right to be indicted by a. Grand, jury essentially the
Speaker 1: effort sought to get you off of.
Speaker 2: Death throw what's interesting is that his sentence. Was mixed
Speaker 2: so the, first count which was bank robbery in which a,
Speaker 2: killing occurs he was convicted and. Got life on, the
Speaker 2: second which was using a firearm during and in relation
Speaker 2: to a federal crime of violence which resulted, in murder
Speaker 2: he was convicted and got. Death penalty then that was
Speaker 2: Appealed by billy and it was reversed so commuted. To
Speaker 2: life but then the state appealed it To The eighth
Speaker 2: circuit and made back to death and put him on.
Speaker 2: Death ROW but i think the fact that you had
Speaker 2: these different outcomes just suggest there's something. Fishy here and
Speaker 2: also the fact that the state appealed to get it
Speaker 2: back on death row just shows how hell bent they
Speaker 2: are on having the highest possible outcome and win for
Speaker 2: their case based on what they decided, to pursue which was.
Speaker 2: Death penalty the best predictor of whether somebody is going
Speaker 2: to get the death penalty is the race of. The
Speaker 2: victim so having a white victim and, black perpetrator suddenly
Speaker 2: the odds of prosecutors going for death penalty, shoot up
Speaker 2: as they did in.
Speaker 1: This case while we're on the subject, of race in
Speaker 1: a community that was half white and, half black literally
Speaker 1: split evenly somehow other the jury pool ended up being ten.
Speaker 1: White jurors so the prosecutors found all sorts of reasons
Speaker 1: to strike black people from, the jury and, on appeal
Speaker 1: in two thousand, And Nine billy allen's lawyers sought an
Speaker 1: evidentiary hearing on the, race issue noting that as of
Speaker 1: the Twelfth of may two thousand and nine of the
Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty federal defendants AGAINST The Us attorney
Speaker 1: general had authorized federal prosecutors to seek the. Death penalty
Speaker 1: and this will shock, no one but one hundred and
Speaker 1: nineteen of them were white and three hundred and forty
Speaker 1: one were, from minority racial or, ethnic groups of whom
Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty seven. Were BLACK so i, KNOW
Speaker 1: today i don't know the percentage, of them but it's
Speaker 1: probably about. The same thirteen percent Of the american population.
Speaker 1: Is black and yet somehow, or other over fifty percent
Speaker 1: of the time the death penalty was used weaponized against
Speaker 1: people innocent or guilty in the, federal system it was
Speaker 1: used against. Black people and then fully another one hundred
Speaker 1: and four of those four hundred and sixty total were
Speaker 1: people from other. Minority groups the direct quote from the
Speaker 1: government to this incredible statistical evidence, was quote there are
Speaker 1: three kinds, of, lies lies, damn lies. And statistics this is,
Speaker 1: so nonsensical it's, like cartoonish but again. Deadly serious and,
Speaker 1: a judge, of course ruled that even if the court
Speaker 1: would agree With, mister allen that these statistics amounted to
Speaker 1: a compelling indictment of the federal government's use of the
Speaker 1: death penalty against, minoriti defendants which is basically him almost
Speaker 1: tacitly acknowledging that. It did he goes on, to say
Speaker 1: the law is nevertheless clear that a defendant cannot make
Speaker 1: out a selective prosecution claim under The Equal protection clause
Speaker 1: without evidence that there was discriminatory motive to prosecute him.
Speaker 3: In.
Speaker 2: Particular yeah so that's the lasting legacy of one of
Speaker 2: The Worst supreme court decisions in, our lifetime which is
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven McCleskey, versus kemp where there was an
Speaker 2: overwhelming finding that still exists today and statistical pattern that's
Speaker 2: indisputable that you have an overrepresentation of people, of Color Particularly,
Speaker 2: african americans who are sentenced.
Speaker 1: To death.
Speaker 2: It's undeniable And The supreme, court says even though that may,
Speaker 2: be true it will not help Any Individual african american
Speaker 2: defendant sentenced to death unless they can show that race
Speaker 2: was a bias in their. Particular case and the only
Speaker 2: way to show that it's basically getting a secret recording
Speaker 2: of the prosecutor USING the n word or somehow something
Speaker 2: that would be just so egregious that would be caught,
Speaker 2: on tape and that of course never comes. To light
Speaker 2: but we know the overall pattern. Is there we're letting
Speaker 2: these biases, run rampant And The, supreme court unfortunately it's
Speaker 2: given a green light, to them and that.
Speaker 1: Continues, today Yeah and while this argument was Us about
Speaker 1: billy's case, in particular and more about the bent of
Speaker 1: the entire system against, black defendants it was also one
Speaker 1: that became more pressing at. The time there was a
Speaker 1: moratorium on executions on the federal level that started in
Speaker 1: two thousand, and six but it was lifted in. Twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen the previous occupant Of The oval office spent the
Speaker 1: last gasp of his power overseeing the first seventeen executions
Speaker 1: in a generation on the, federal level sixteen by lethal
Speaker 1: injection and one.
Speaker 6: By electrocution he's the same person who sought to bring
Speaker 6: a death penalty Back In New york state many, years
Speaker 6: ago seeking the death penalty and execution of several young
Speaker 6: men that were wrongfully Accused In New, york City The.
Speaker 1: Central park five From The central park five now known
Speaker 1: As the. Exonerated five and the Fact That billy allen
Speaker 1: bore witness to these executions from his vantage point as
Speaker 1: one of the long serving people on. Death row in
Speaker 1: spite of this remarkable body of, exculpatory Evidence so billy
Speaker 1: also raised claims of ineffective assistance of counsel for the
Speaker 1: reasons that we've already laid, out here and of course
Speaker 1: the gasoline RESIDUE and dna tests that Truly Do. Exculpai
Speaker 1: billy let's, FACE it.
Speaker 3: I wrote a letter to, my ATTORNEY and i framed
Speaker 3: it this way for. A reason, i, SAID basically i
Speaker 3: about to file. ON appeal I located, DNA evidence i located.
Speaker 3: GASOLINE results i located all. This evidence had you known
Speaker 3: about these THINGS before i went, to trial would you
Speaker 3: have presented these things on? My behalf and he in,
Speaker 3: his letter in his response, to me he specifically, says
Speaker 3: yes he would have presented these things had he known
Speaker 3: about them. Before trial now here's the thing. About it
Speaker 3: these things were in the records that he handed over.
Speaker 3: To me there was no way in hill that my
Speaker 3: trial was FAIR when i had an attorney who specifically
Speaker 3: responded to a letter that had he knew about, these
Speaker 3: things he. Represented them but yet he had these things
Speaker 3: in his possession and never Looked.
Speaker 1: For yeah we've seen some pretty grotesque examples of ineffective
Speaker 1: assistance of, counsel before but this is a whole. New
Speaker 1: level but yet somehow you were denied on that front,
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 3: All those denials and basically did. A rejection it becomes
Speaker 3: a burden on, your shoulders. You know so that has
Speaker 3: been my burden for the last, few years, you know
Speaker 3: trying to find all, the evidence and Now that i've,
Speaker 3: FOUND it i can't get people. To listen what does
Speaker 3: it take for people? To care what does it take
Speaker 3: for situations? To change and, TO me i guess that
Speaker 3: goes To The. Georgetown Project the, GEORGETOWN project i felt
Speaker 3: like ignited a hope and a flame that has, you
Speaker 3: know basically dimmed over. The years and that was my,
Speaker 3: first introduction, you Know to Mark and marty into the,
Speaker 3: you know the Students. At GEORGETOWN and, i asked, YOU
Speaker 3: know I think I. ASKED mark i, was, like well
Speaker 3: what is your process of? Picking people and he, was
Speaker 3: like we go through thousands and thousands of applications and
Speaker 3: only pick five and yours. Stood out and that meant everything.
Speaker 1: To me and, of course You mean georgetown's making an
Speaker 1: exanner re class and remarkably it's an, undergraduate course so
Speaker 1: you don't have to be a, law student a, forensic
Speaker 1: scientist or a private investigator to look at some of
Speaker 1: the evidence, and say wait, a minute how did this
Speaker 1: actually even go forward? To trial how much less result in,
Speaker 1: a Conviction, and marty, YOU know i watched the remarkable
Speaker 1: video that you and your students put together with the
Speaker 1: making an, exander reclass, of course and those in that
Speaker 1: class never ceased to blow my mind with, the amazing
Speaker 1: amazing work that they do semester, after semester class, after
Speaker 1: class and of course their work has led to the
Speaker 1: actual freeing of four, people, NOW right I Mean, Keith Washington,
Speaker 1: Valentino Dixon, eric.
Speaker 2: Riddick And Now Orlando.
Speaker 1: Trey, jones right these kids are doing an absolutely. Phenomenal
Speaker 1: jobs some of them have even come to work for
Speaker 1: us or have gone on to law school working as
Speaker 1: paralegals on pro bono cases or. Other nonprofits they are
Speaker 1: truly incredible assets to this movement, for Justice and i'm
Speaker 1: so glad that you all Landed on.
Speaker 6: Billy's case, billy's case, to me it was just a
Speaker 6: multitude of things that. Went wrong every week that, we
Speaker 6: live we see another man or woman. Become exonerated and
Speaker 6: what we also see is that something from the original
Speaker 6: case went wrong and it was either from The prosecutor
Speaker 6: lisa's point, of view there were, some wrongdoing, forensic misconduct
Speaker 6: or incompetent lawyers And in, BILLY'S case i think he
Speaker 6: had a little bit. Of, everything now.
Speaker 2: There was someone else who Has seen withholder planning the,
Speaker 2: bank robbery but that was just. Never pursued there was
Speaker 2: an anonymous tip that we don't know much. More about
Speaker 2: we just know that the initials of the SUSPECT, are
Speaker 2: dm and obviously That's Not BILLY. Allen dm but we
Speaker 2: don't know more and haven't been able to find out
Speaker 2: more because it's been kept, Under wraps but that very
Speaker 2: well could be the second Person who holder.
Speaker 1: Is PROTECTING, there's DM there's Jb as, billy mentioned and
Speaker 1: a whole lot of potential avenues if you could just access,
Speaker 1: These materials but they've been fighting it every step of.
Speaker 1: The way now there was renewed efforts to TEST the
Speaker 1: dna evidence against other, potential suspects which was the focus
Speaker 1: of your filings in. Twenty twenty not only is there
Speaker 1: this bloody strap that excludes you and the victim that
Speaker 1: they refused to RUN through codis or test against, anyone
Speaker 1: else there's also the matter of a damp cloth that
Speaker 1: was found near the fence where the second suspect Escaped From.
Speaker 1: Forrest park they tested IT for dna and it, excluded
Speaker 1: you but have since sealed. Those results i'm sure if
Speaker 1: they Had, matched billy we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Speaker 1: Right now so how have those efforts gone?
Speaker 3: Thus far thanks? About us every year from the FIRST
Speaker 3: year i filed, pro say my lawyers, Have filed we've
Speaker 3: done everything we could to get them to basically do all,
Speaker 3: the testing and my judge basically has refused every, single
Speaker 3: request and the prosecutor has opposed every form. Of testing in,
Speaker 3: MY case i can't get.
Speaker 2: Nothing tested if we could TEST that dna against other,
Speaker 2: possible suspects who knows what would come up in. This
Speaker 2: case but there's such, A conspiracy, i mean that's not
Speaker 2: too strong a word to say that police and prosecutors
Speaker 2: have in just ceiling tight, a conviction even if it's the,
Speaker 2: wrong one even if there's evidence that proves that it was.
Speaker 3: A mistake my case is in one of Those where
Speaker 3: i'm just asking, people to, you know take a chance.
Speaker 3: On me i'm asking people to believe in my evidence
Speaker 3: and fight.
Speaker 1: For me so that's where this is at. Right Now
Speaker 1: and billy and his team are fighting this on, two
Speaker 1: fronts trying to get access to those, biological materials as
Speaker 1: well as seeking a Pardon From. President biden there's a
Speaker 1: petition among so many other action steps linked in. The
Speaker 1: bio but go, there now. Don't wait go to, the
Speaker 1: bio click, on it sign, the petition and in addition
Speaker 1: to all, of that there's the making an. Exanay video
Speaker 1: please check all of. It out we also encourage you
Speaker 1: To join billy Supporters this November, AND washington dc for.
Speaker 1: A rally you Can follow Billy. On instagram It's free
Speaker 1: BILLY B i L L i E allen A L
Speaker 1: l e n So free billy all to. Receive updates
Speaker 1: and now we go to our closing where first, OF
Speaker 1: all i thank all of you for. Joining us i'm
Speaker 1: just gonna kick back in, my chair turn my, microphone
Speaker 1: off and just listen for any closing thoughts that you.
Speaker 1: All have let's Start, with Mark, then martyn And then
Speaker 1: billy over to you to close.
Speaker 3: This Out.
Speaker 2: Thanks jason billy is an. Extraordinary person he, is warm he,
Speaker 2: is caring he, is funny he, is compassionate he, is,
Speaker 2: dedicated hardworking and he's. Incredibly TALENTED and i got to
Speaker 2: see a lot of. HIS artwork i actually have some
Speaker 2: of it now in my Office. At Georgetown but billy
Speaker 2: is himself a beacon of light and hope for. This
Speaker 2: world AND what i really hope more than anything is
Speaker 2: that the rest of the world will Discover the Billy
Speaker 2: that i've come to know, and love and to recognize
Speaker 2: his talent and to appreciate, his humanity and that hopefully
Speaker 2: he'll have that opportunity to connect with the world as a.
Speaker 2: Freeman soon this.
Speaker 6: Is TRUE things i want people to. Understand well for
Speaker 6: convictions is. An epidemic in twenty, twenty one we had
Speaker 6: one hundred and seventy three exonerations that were Recognized By
Speaker 6: national Register. Of exonery twenty, twenty two we already have
Speaker 6: one hundred and. Seventy three billy should be added to
Speaker 6: that list in the. Near future our system can't function
Speaker 6: if we keep convicting, innocent people and when there's evidence
Speaker 6: that somebody was, denied justice we let them languish in
Speaker 6: prison day after day.
Speaker 3: After day.
Speaker 6: The day has to Come where billy gets his day.
Speaker 6: For JUSTICE and i look forward to the Day where,
Speaker 6: mark myself our students can be waiting outside of a
Speaker 6: prison somewhere like we have for four other individuals To
Speaker 6: watch billy walk out.
Speaker 3: Of prison i'm not just somebody who's saying, they're innocing,
Speaker 3: You know i'm somebody who can show You that. I'm
Speaker 3: innocent and, TO me i feel like that shitting night people,
Speaker 3: to say you, know what let me go to bat for.
Speaker 3: This guy, You know, i'll get, you know letters from people,
Speaker 3: Say hey i'm praying, for You and, i'm, like, okay well,
Speaker 3: YOU know i appreciate, the PRAYERS but i need you to,
Speaker 3: speak out, you know because you need those voices in
Speaker 3: the high places to be able to hear that you.
Speaker 3: Do CARE and i feel like the more people who
Speaker 3: show that, they care the more the system is going
Speaker 3: to have to care and gonna have to give us
Speaker 3: the testing that we're looking for and allow the evidence
Speaker 3: to be the thing that motivates you to want to
Speaker 3: go out there and fight for me to want to go.
Speaker 3: Out there and, you know every time you're on, social
Speaker 3: media instead of posting about the new foods, you're eating
Speaker 3: to be able, to, say hey you, know What Free billy.
Speaker 3: Allen period, you Know, in november we'll be going TO,
Speaker 3: d c, you know to basically do a MARCH on
Speaker 3: dc to present, my Case and i'm hoping that people
Speaker 3: start raising their voice and have an influence when we
Speaker 3: do file our Petition, to biden to be able to make,
Speaker 3: him say you, know what we're always asking another country
Speaker 3: to do right by. Their citizens we fail this guy.
Speaker 3: Right here let us do the right thing now and
Speaker 3: return him to. His FAMILY and I guess i'm going
Speaker 3: to read you SOMETHING that i think will help you
Speaker 3: kind of GATHER who i am in, my journey and
Speaker 3: it's called longe soldier to find myself engaged in the
Speaker 3: conflict that some have deemed to be a battle between
Speaker 3: good and evil in a desire who they have labeled.
Speaker 3: The latter this battle is not one where thunder's ward
Speaker 3: will be heard fought about a stinch of gun smoke,
Speaker 3: charred flesh nor where blood stains will tak the same
Speaker 3: round with footsteps travel to. The, froe no this battle
Speaker 3: is one that is rooted in the blood lines and
Speaker 3: bloodshed that painted the stripes red and in the blue
Speaker 3: sky there are weighed, fifty stars which are at times
Speaker 3: saluted or draped over the caskets to the. Fallen, heroes
Speaker 3: NOW because i know that there are those who like
Speaker 3: to take one's word out of context with. Malicious, intent
Speaker 3: no there's no way in my claiming the role. Of
Speaker 3: hero i'm just one who has been wrongfully imprisoned and
Speaker 3: who wishes to defend myself against those who have brought
Speaker 3: this battle to. My doorstep and in, DOING so i
Speaker 3: plan to defend myself against, the lies misriperdsons pat in
Speaker 3: advances to take my life into pretense. Of, justice NOW
Speaker 3: after i expose, this injustice if you then deem my
Speaker 3: actions to be that of, a hero know that IT
Speaker 3: is i who will not make such. A claim this
Speaker 3: battle will take place on what many have deemed to be,
Speaker 3: sacred ground or what some have said to be the
Speaker 3: foundation of, our society without which will cause chaos and
Speaker 3: leave in its. Path destruction and that battleground is the
Speaker 3: constitutionist as amendments to oversee, this battle to ensure that
Speaker 3: it's conducted without a hint, of, bias favoritism nor that
Speaker 3: it will be tainted with the temptation of power or.
Speaker 3: Financial Gain Is Lady, justice yet to, my disbelief though
Speaker 3: she is suposed to stand out front of the symbol of,
Speaker 3: FUNDAMENTAL fairness i could have SWORN that i thought her
Speaker 3: tip the scales of justice in favor of, my foes
Speaker 3: who already have, superior, power resources and who will attack without.
Speaker 3: Malicious FORETHOUGHT though i know that the odds are. IT'S
Speaker 3: me i do not waiver on, my STANDS and i
Speaker 3: hold tight to the hilt of my sword of truth. And,
Speaker 3: evidence well my evidence is the material which it has been.
Speaker 3: FORCED in i close, my eyes say, a PRAYER and
Speaker 3: i can only Hope that god Hear my please is
Speaker 3: out those stones, that golive and IT is i who
Speaker 3: am the. Long soldier.
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Speaker 1: wardis with Research By. Lyla robinson the music in this
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